Author Topic: Overheard at Work 2  (Read 335886 times)

leviticus

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #100 on: January 04, 2019, 02:11:00 AM »
This is the first time I've had a story to share, which is far more exciting for me than it should be. . .

Coworker comes into work today, fist day back since he finished for Christmas, and when asked how his time off was he slumped in his chair and started complaining about how expensive the holidays were.

Apparently he and his wife had to host their two children and partners, their 6 grandchildren, the partners parents, as well as his and his wife's parents, siblings, siblings partners and children. Totaling 49 people for Christmas day. They couldn't all sleep in the house, so he and his wife paid for hotel rooms for all of them, and they spend Christmas through to New Year living in a hotel, paying for everyone to eat, have presents (iPads and gadgets from what I could gather) and do activities.

He ran up a bill into the five figures, just to host Christmas.

Wait... 49 people... in HOTELS, and MEALS, and GIFTS, FOR A WEEK? (Please note my tone of my voice rises until it hits a screech at the end of the sentence....)

I think, if you can afford it, it would be a great once in a lifetime family reunion type thing.  But if it’s gonna cause monetary stress, people should just pay their own way and maybe some people can’t show up.  That’s also assuming the recipients aren’t acting like spoiled freeloaders to begin with.

I agree, if you can afford it, it would be a lovely one off way to spend the festive season.

But I don't think he can afford it, and I don't think the attendees really deserve it.

His spend on celebrating Christmas is more than the deposit I'm saving to buy a house, it blew my mind a bit.

Dicey

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #101 on: January 04, 2019, 02:19:17 AM »
Guess this is as good a place as any to post this - office greed in the form of a not-so-secret Santa recipient:

https://ca.style.yahoo.com/naughty-nice-woman-goes-viral-asking-secret-santa-colleague-buy-kids-70-tablet-135432482.html


Wow.   Simply wow.


The first request would have been met with a "No!"


If there was a second request, it would have been "I'll be posting screen shots of this conversation at work as a gift to all our colleagues.   I won't be removing the names from the screen shots.  Have a Merry Christmas!"
More wow. What an asshat.

ETA I actually have a sister who would pull this kind of shit. Luckily, we're not currently speaking.
« Last Edit: January 04, 2019, 02:21:45 AM by Dicey »

Unique User

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #102 on: January 04, 2019, 06:20:58 AM »
After literally years of lurking, I have a post.

My husband and I both work full time. We have toddler twins. Coworker has 3 kids under the age of 7. Wife is SAHM. Coworker mentions that after work he's exhausted and wife is too after caring for kids. He mentions that by the time he comes home and they fix dinner and clean up, he doesn't have a lot of time to spend with them. I commiserate with him and mention we had the same issue. I was able to carve out an extra half hour or so a day by switching to paper plates (we are renting - dishwasher is anemic and kitchen has no garbage disposal - thus we have to go through Olympic effort dishwashing everyday - turns out so do they). When the kids get a little older (able to do some chores to help) we will switch back to regular dishes. We have spent maybe... $80 on paper plates in a year in order to get back 30 minutes of quality time A DAY with our kids.

He basically tells me that they can't afford papers plates (90 for about $2 - $3 - lasts for 2-3 weeks) because they are a single income household.

He drives a BMW 500 something. She drives a BMW X5. o_0

So self imposed poverty... That's fun.

People's sense of expensive can be so odd. Sometimes the luxury items are a must at all costs. Sometimes $10 is too much without luxury items.

I remember a coworker who came to me (I'm a shadetree mechanic as well as an engineer) about his broken headlight. I said, no sweat. You have an older car that is common. Look here on eBay - there is a good used headlight for ~$10-$15. Nope. He was looking for the 10 cent solution like wrapping the headlight in Saran Wrap or gluing a piece of plexiglass over the headlight. Why? The headlight would not likely stay waterproof, the bulb would burn out frequently (rain water), the beam might not be focused, etc. He wasn't being frugal, he was being cheap.

"self imposed poverty" - that perfectly describes so many of my past and current coworkers.

Sadly, I know so many other coworkers who suffer from this. Ten years ago, I worked with a woman who had 2 daughters and a borderline abusive husband. DD1 was the child of a former spouse that she brought into the marriage with the borderline abusive husband. DD2 was his child. They lived in a beautiful house on the water in a "prestigious" East Coast town, but her commute to work was 80 miles round trip.

She drove a relatively new BMW 300 something, very nice suits, hair always done, full court press makeup, nails, Tiffany jewelry - even eyelash extensions... EVERYDAY...

Now, I am all for someone taking good care of themselves and wanting to look their best at all times... Right up until she came to my desk and asked me to help figure out how to pay for DD1 to go to college.

DD1 had decided that no matter what it took, she was getting as far away as possible from her step-dad and had her heart set on going to college in California, specifically in San Bernardino. DD1 had figured out if she went to San Bernardino Community College, after 2 years she could transfer to CSUSB, which I thought sounded great... right up until.....

Her mother presented me with several loan documents from different banks and asked me to help her figure out which one DD1 should apply for to get the best terms. After ascertaining that CW had not saved a single dime to send DD1 to college and had no interest in a PLUS loan (don't blame her), I reviewed the loan documents and was astounded to discover that out of state tuition for SBCC cost 4 to 5 times what in state (where CW lived) would cost (This was in 2007, I think..).

I asked her to seriously consider convincing DD1 to go in state, but due to the horrible behavior of the step-dad, DD1 would have none of it. So I then asked CW, is there something you can sell to pay for the first semester? The longer DD1 can put off taking out a loan, the better. CW had also expressed to me that she wasn't sure DD1 would make it through SBCC because DD1 had done poorly in high school, but wanted to give DD1 a chance "away from her step-dad". (CW also confessed she knew her husband had treated DD1 badly, and so wanted to support DD1's wish to go to SBCC).

Anyway, CW (wearing her Tiffany jewelry with salon eyelash extensions, and professionally manicured nails) replied she had nothing she could sell to offset the cost of the first semester. I gently mentioned the BMW, and explained she could sell the BMW and probably get enough $ for at least the first semester at SBCC and see if DD1 could hack it before DD1 had to take out any loans. I mentioned that CW could purchase a small Toyota or Honda for a minimal amount and would actually be a better car for such a long commute.

At this point, CW crossed her legs, locked her arms around her chest, leaned back in the chair away from me and outright refused to part with her BMW. So I advised her which loan her DD1 should take out (at just under 6% interest).

Fast forward a few months, DD1 graduates from highschool and CW buys DD1 a graduation gift: a Louis Vuitton purse ($1,000) and a pair of Uggs... "It's the least I can do and this way she'll fit in at SBCC".

0_o

Too many disastrous things in this post to determine which is the most alarming - the abusive relationship, the $0 saved for college, the graduation gift, the inability to compromise or sacrifice, the high maintenance routine....

As a final follow up.... When I first met CW, she was trying to get a promotion at work that would move her to Colorado, at which point, she planned to divorce her husband and take the girls. (I am uncertain if she could have just done that with DD2, although she could have with DD1.) The promotion never came through, so she didn't leave him. Over the course of the first six months of getting to know her she described her life with him:

1) he kept a freezer in the basement full of HIS food, locked with a padlock, (but when guests would come over, the lock would mysteriously disappear)
2) he purchased a new state of the art washer dryer set and had them installed upstairs in a laundry closet next to the master bedroom... For HIS clothes only. CW and the girls had to use the old washer dryer in the basement
3) he would go on work trips and bring home a gift for CW and DD2, but not DD1 (who was 1 year old when CW married him and thus knew no other father figure - I understand bio-dad was and is a no show)
4) taught DD2 to drive in his car but would not do so for DD1
5) sometimes in the morning, the phone on her desk would start to ring and ring. When we answered it, the caller always hung up. Turns out, he would call her on her cell phone as she drove into work. When CW pulled into the underground garage and lost signal, he would count down 5 minutes and start calling her desk. If she didn't answer it by the time the 5 minutes were up, he'd scream at her asking where she had been since it didn't take 5 minutes to walk from the garage to her desk...

And the list goes on and on...

For the life of me, I can't understand why she stayed with him since he treated DD1 like a shifty renter as opposed to a baby girl who grew up with him as her dad. At the time, CW made a fairly good salary - upwards of $60k a year - easily enough to divorce him and take DD1 out of the toxic home and fight for custody of DD2. But instead she would tell us about how they were spending a fortune renovating and upgrading and improving their waterfront home (and aforementioned BMW, hair, makeup, nails, clothes, jewelry, eyelash extensions)...

I heard later that sadly DD1 dropped out of SBCC after 2 years, having borrowed a full two years of tuition at the out of state rate with no degree to show for it. There have been no updates since, I suspect because DD1 cut ties with her mom for choosing the step-dad and the lifestyle CW had to have over her first born child...

CW is still with the husband...

That is just so freaking sad.  My parent stayed with an abusive husband until I was 21.  They married when I was 3 and it took me years and lots of therapy to have even the shallow relationship we have now.  My parent will sometimes try to rewrite history, but my sister and I will have none of that.  I hope DD1 has supportive and loving extended family, that is truly what saved my mental health early on.   

Tabitha

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #103 on: January 04, 2019, 09:48:54 AM »
We have a generous early retirement program, and a significant number of people who “retire” and return on contract often on reduced hours or project work. One coworker “retired” in the fall, but was at the Xmas party with her team. She’s working a full schedule doing the same work as before. She proud of her frugality because she drives (nurses) a 12 year old Toyota, but the reason that she and her husband can’t make it on the their two professional salaries (she’s pulling 120k and his is at a higher grade) is they’ve been paying tuition for three adult children out of cash flow (no savings)PLUS four mortgages (their own plus three). The reason they still have a mortgage is they pulled out their equity for three down payments.  I hope the third income stream keeps their head above water longer than the next department reorganization which will end her contract.

FireHiker

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #104 on: January 04, 2019, 10:18:44 AM »
I've mentioned my one co-worker before who makes questionable financial decisions and is barely paycheck to paycheck because of them. We were talking yesterday about New Year's activities. I stayed home, watched the ball drop at 9pm (for free) with my kids. She went out to some concert with a "VIP" thing, stayed at a fancy hotel nearby, drank to abandon. Sigh. It makes me sad, but I know she's not going to change, so I just stay thankful that I have different priorities.

@Tabitha We are preparing to cash flow my oldest's college beginning this year; so painful. It will reduce our travel and really drive us down to true mustachianism for the most part, but I'm just thankful that we can swing it. Definitely not pulling any equity out of our house although we have over 50% equity. With a 3.25% fixed rate on our mortgage we will never pay a penny off early. At least your co-worker doesn't get a ridiculous car on top of it all; it's sad how many people come up in this thread that would have a new car on a lease anyway because they "work hard" and "deserve it". I wish we had saved up more in advance of college, but we have at least maxed out our retirement for a couple years now and that won't change during these leaner college years.

Miss Piggy

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #105 on: January 04, 2019, 11:34:38 AM »
CW1: ...blah blah blah...but you're getting close to retirement, aren't you?
CW2: 5 more years! (I've known her for 2 years, and it was 5 more years 2 years ago, too. She is now 63. Maybe 62.)
ME: Holy F&@K! Why? *
CW1 & CW2: ...continued conversation about a place they both used to work together...


* No, I did not actually say this out loud, but my thoughts may have been audible, as they were very loud in my head. I wasn't part of the conversation; I was just sitting nearby and overheard it. The part that makes me a bit sad is CW2 is actually my boss, and 2019 is my FIRE year. I wonder how THAT conversation is going to go!!??


Evildunk99

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #106 on: January 04, 2019, 11:50:28 AM »
#1)  During 2019 benefits overview, colleague #1 breaks down in tears in front of half the company because they eliminated the HMO option, and are only offering HSA/FSA.  She couldn't fathom how to cover her children's basic healthcare in 2019 when she is forced to save up her new HSA.  $5,000 deductible plan costs ~$70 paycheck + whatever she wants to contribute to HSA. 

#2)  Learned over the weekend that co-worker's sister is going to a Latin American country because she had zero dental insurance over the past 10 years, and needs 16 cavities 2 root canals and a cap that would cost 5 figures in the U.S. out of pocket.  Said person lives paycheck to paycheck as a waitress, is 28, and lives at home with parents.  Negative net wealth.  SMH.

#3)  55 y/o executive co-worker making $200k+ / year (likely more) explains to 60 y/o co-worker that 4 days in august 2019 are the only chance he'll have to take any vacation time with his family for the whole year because he's so busy at work.  SMH...

#4)  67 y/o co-worker won an annual "mvp" award for her scrupulous work in 2018.  67... SMH...

not all of these examples are anti-mustachian, but I couldn't help myself not to share :)


marcela

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #107 on: January 04, 2019, 12:12:20 PM »
#2)  Learned over the weekend that co-worker's sister is going to a Latin American country because she had zero dental insurance over the past 10 years, and needs 16 cavities 2 root canals and a cap that would cost 5 figures in the U.S. out of pocket.  Said person lives paycheck to paycheck as a waitress, is 28, and lives at home with parents.  Negative net wealth.  SMH.
The neighborhood I grew up in, dental insurance was for rich people and you didn't really go to the dentist unless there was a big problem. When I was in high school, I had to have my wisdom teeth extracted and the cost to do here was so high that it was worth my dad and I flying to brazil, staying with family for a week and getting it done there.
I'm now 30 with a good job and I still can't bring myself to pay for dental insurance. Now I get checked out once a year at the local dental college for free because graduating students need to perform on a person to pass their boards.
If you ask me, the 28 year old waitress is being pretty mustachian by finding a cheaper way to get her necessary medical work done, instead of putting five figures on a credit card...etc.

pachnik

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #108 on: January 04, 2019, 12:17:10 PM »
I work in an office with 3 other people.  Now that Christmas vacation is over, a couple of them are comparing notes on their new Apple watches and spouses' new ipads.   Apparently, this was a low spend Christmas at their homes.    Low spend Christmas at my house this year too so my husband and I didn't exchange gifts at all. 

Evildunk99

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #109 on: January 04, 2019, 12:21:08 PM »
#2)  Learned over the weekend that co-worker's sister is going to a Latin American country because she had zero dental insurance over the past 10 years, and needs 16 cavities 2 root canals and a cap that would cost 5 figures in the U.S. out of pocket.  Said person lives paycheck to paycheck as a waitress, is 28, and lives at home with parents.  Negative net wealth.  SMH.
The neighborhood I grew up in, dental insurance was for rich people and you didn't really go to the dentist unless there was a big problem. When I was in high school, I had to have my wisdom teeth extracted and the cost to do here was so high that it was worth my dad and I flying to brazil, staying with family for a week and getting it done there.
I'm now 30 with a good job and I still can't bring myself to pay for dental insurance. Now I get checked out once a year at the local dental college for free because graduating students need to perform on a person to pass their boards.
If you ask me, the 28 year old waitress is being pretty mustachian by finding a cheaper way to get her necessary medical work done, instead of putting five figures on a credit card...etc.

It's certainly a mustachian solution, but a debatable case study of:  receiving preventative care 2x per year for 10 years (thus possibly reducing the cavities etc.), or pocketing the difference, and wind up in the situation she's in.  Dental insurance is dirt cheap vs. broad health insurance for what it's worth.  The dental college is a very good tip regardless!

techwiz

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #110 on: January 04, 2019, 12:25:41 PM »
Overheard co-workers talking about how the stock market is down and why there is no point in investing or saving. 

CW1 The market is crashing.  Apple is lowering it's outlook for the year. 
CW2 See that's why it is not smart to invest.  Why save any money if you are just going to lose it in the stock market?
....conversation switched to all the shopping done over the holidays.

I just bit my tongue and didn't say anything.

   

AnnaGrowsAMustache

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #111 on: January 04, 2019, 12:45:57 PM »
Overheard co-workers talking about how the stock market is down and why there is no point in investing or saving. 

CW1 The market is crashing.  Apple is lowering it's outlook for the year. 
CW2 See that's why it is not smart to invest.  Why save any money if you are just going to lose it in the stock market?
....conversation switched to all the shopping done over the holidays.

I just bit my tongue and didn't say anything.

 

I've had a recent conversation with someone that was exactly this. And this person is otherwise quite smart. What on earth are people thinking?

Miss Piggy

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #112 on: January 04, 2019, 12:57:26 PM »
Overheard co-workers talking about how the stock market is down and why there is no point in investing or saving. 

CW1 The market is crashing.  Apple is lowering it's outlook for the year. 
CW2 See that's why it is not smart to invest.  Why save any money if you are just going to lose it in the stock market?
....conversation switched to all the shopping done over the holidays.

I just bit my tongue and didn't say anything.

 

I've had a recent conversation with someone that was exactly this. And this person is otherwise quite smart. What on earth are people thinking?

I mean...why invest when you can just play the lottery instead for a much bigger reward? Right?

techwiz

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #113 on: January 04, 2019, 01:03:25 PM »
Quote
I mean...why invest when you can just play the lottery instead for a much bigger reward? Right?

I wish I thought of saying that! Of course I would be saying it sarcastically, but I am sure they would both agree and think it was a better investment.

It's really difficult to explain the virtues of index investing and planning for the long term, everyone is living in the moment and looking for the quick fix. 

Imma

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #114 on: January 04, 2019, 01:20:59 PM »
Quote
I mean...why invest when you can just play the lottery instead for a much bigger reward? Right?

I wish I thought of saying that! Of course I would be saying it sarcastically, but I am sure they would both agree and think it was a better investment.

It's really difficult to explain the virtues of index investing and planning for the long term, everyone is living in the moment and looking for the quick fix.

My 60 year old self employed contractor coworker sold off all her retirement investments in October and was acting pretty smug about her great sense of market timing.

Retirement savings are now in a 0,25% interest savings account (Europe). Sure great market timing.

Kronsey

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #115 on: January 04, 2019, 01:22:00 PM »
Overheard co-workers talking about how the stock market is down and why there is no point in investing or saving. 

CW1 The market is crashing.  Apple is lowering it's outlook for the year. 
CW2 See that's why it is not smart to invest.  Why save any money if you are just going to lose it in the stock market?
....conversation switched to all the shopping done over the holidays.

I just bit my tongue and didn't say anything.

 

I've had a recent conversation with someone that was exactly this. And this person is otherwise quite smart. What on earth are people thinking?

I think there is way more to these comments than most of us realize. The system is setup to screw people not smart enough to ride out the downturns. Truthfully, the VAST majority of the US population has the risk appetite for a portfolio heavily concentrated in bonds/cash. It just FEELS way too risky for them to change their minds. And then when they are talked into investing in equities (even great funds like VTSAX), they still sell when the market drops because they should have NEVER been that heavily invested in equity positions in the first place.

Also, they might somewhat understand inflation, and realize that saving cash will provide them a negative return, so dog gone it we might as well spend it now while we have it! and don't forget, YOLO.

Here's a personal example to support my thoughts...

My now deceased grandfather is a perfect example of someone who still saved, but way underestimated the impact of inflation. He retired in 1986 at 59 years old with a great pension (at the time). He had a paid for house as well as some savings (all cash/CDs).  By the time he started drawing SS at 62, they were making around $3,500 month between one decent pension, one very small pension, and two SS checks. $3,500/month in 1989 (year he turned 62) with a paid off house and paid off vehicles was a hell of a living. Now a days it isn't a drop in the bucket.

Fast forward to today - my grandmother is now 89 and is showing some signs of dementia. She is still in good physical health. My grandfather died 18 months ago. There goes the pension and his social security. She now lives in a paid off house (worth about $160K) while drawing $1K a month in SS benefits. Still has about $100K of cds and cash in savings accounts, but the interest income last year totaled around $90. She is trying to "live independently" to preserve the small inheritance for her kids (2 kids will split everything 50-50), but her "living independently" includes relying on my mom *her daughter) for everything.

Moral of the story, it might have been better for them to "enjoy life" when younger and then just live on the pension and SS. Now that my grandfather has passed, it would be much better on everyone if grandma had zero assets and wasn't trying to live independently leaving my poor mother to be her caretaker all to inherit less money than she would have accumulated by simply continuing to work.

And yes, you could respond and say grandpa should have put all the money in a bond fund and equities fund in 1986 and then he would have had plenty of assets... blah blah blah. I agree with you, but grandpa (and many of his current contemporaries) would NEVER do that because it is just too damn risky...
« Last Edit: January 04, 2019, 03:32:53 PM by Kronsey »

ysette9

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #116 on: January 04, 2019, 01:36:02 PM »
Something similar-ish happened with my grandmother before she died. The morale of the story again is that inflation eats away like crazy at a portfolio if you aren’t invested in equities for the long-term. I think too much emphasis is spent on protecting against the scary ride of the stock market in “safe” investments that are actually very unsafe if you have a long time horizon.

Just Joe

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #117 on: January 04, 2019, 01:51:48 PM »
* No, I did not actually say this out loud, but my thoughts may have been audible, as they were very loud in my head. I wasn't part of the conversation; I was just sitting nearby and overheard it. The part that makes me a bit sad is CW2 is actually my boss, and 2019 is my FIRE year. I wonder how THAT conversation is going to go!!??

You are SO LUCKY to be able to retire. There are all these different reasons that the boss can't retire. She can't change her circumstances. Every weekend she must spend money here and there. During the week there are a different set of reasons but she needs to continue to spend. And luxury things just b/c.
« Last Edit: January 04, 2019, 01:54:14 PM by Just Joe »

Kronsey

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #118 on: January 04, 2019, 01:59:02 PM »
Something similar-ish happened with my grandmother before she died. The morale of the story again is that inflation eats away like crazy at a portfolio if you aren’t invested in equities for the long-term. I think too much emphasis is spent on protecting against the scary ride of the stock market in “safe” investments that are actually very unsafe if you have a long time horizon.

Agreed, with a few small points to consider:

1. We are talking about human beings with emotions. They aren't robots who automatically do the financially prudent thing.

2. If you convince these risk averse people to invest in VTSAX, and the market declines, they will SELL no matter how much you plead with them not to!

3. This is why William Bernstein concluded that MOST of the population actually needs a fiduciary financial advisor. If for nothing more than to talk them off the cliff when December 2018s happen.

Source: my grandpa, your grandma, and hundreds of clients that I have worked with on the tax side in the last decade. Not to mention all the research done showing the buy low sell high problems in the US...

I think it would be interesting to see some sort of research on the droves of people who sell high and buy low due to risk aversion. What would their portfolio look like if they had a much heavier allocation to bonds and cash as opposed to stocks and then bail out when the market declines.
« Last Edit: January 04, 2019, 03:18:38 PM by Kronsey »

ysette9

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #119 on: January 04, 2019, 02:47:37 PM »
I agree with what you are saying but I actually wonder if we should conclude that most people are not cut out to be investors. Probably most people would be better off with defined benefit plans like a beefed-up social security, pensions for all, or something similar. It is a tough job to go up against human psychology with masses of mostly uninterested people.

pachnik

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #120 on: January 04, 2019, 02:51:42 PM »
I agree with what you are saying but I actually wonder if we should conclude that most people are not cut out to be investors. Probably most people would be better off with defined benefit plans like a beefed-up social security, pensions for all, or something similar. It is a tough job to go up against human psychology with masses of mostly uninterested people.

I agree with this.  I don't think most people are cut out to be investors.  The Cdn government is slowing starting to see it.  In the last few years they've raised the CPP premiums.  CPP is like American social security.

galliver

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #121 on: January 04, 2019, 04:18:20 PM »
#2)  Learned over the weekend that co-worker's sister is going to a Latin American country because she had zero dental insurance over the past 10 years, and needs 16 cavities 2 root canals and a cap that would cost 5 figures in the U.S. out of pocket.  Said person lives paycheck to paycheck as a waitress, is 28, and lives at home with parents.  Negative net wealth.  SMH.
The neighborhood I grew up in, dental insurance was for rich people and you didn't really go to the dentist unless there was a big problem. When I was in high school, I had to have my wisdom teeth extracted and the cost to do here was so high that it was worth my dad and I flying to brazil, staying with family for a week and getting it done there.
I'm now 30 with a good job and I still can't bring myself to pay for dental insurance. Now I get checked out once a year at the local dental college for free because graduating students need to perform on a person to pass their boards.
If you ask me, the 28 year old waitress is being pretty mustachian by finding a cheaper way to get her necessary medical work done, instead of putting five figures on a credit card...etc.

It's certainly a mustachian solution, but a debatable case study of:  receiving preventative care 2x per year for 10 years (thus possibly reducing the cavities etc.), or pocketing the difference, and wind up in the situation she's in.  Dental insurance is dirt cheap vs. broad health insurance for what it's worth.  The dental college is a very good tip regardless!
A noticeable number of my friends, after not having dental insurance through college and early 20s, finally went to see a dentist in the past few years (mid- late 20s) Many of them needed a root canal. As well as a couple fillings each.

I don't have a pre-ACA frame of reference, but I remember hearing open-market (non employer) dental insurance wasn't worth it given what it covered, cheaper to pay for two cleanings out of pocket, esp if you can find new-patient discounts. I was lucky to have good insurance through my dad and subsequently grad school.

Now, we can talk about unwillingness/inability of people with decent incomes/lifestyles to plan for and cover an occasional 100-200 expense for their health (dental cleaning, urgent care, etc). While waitressing isn't of itself a "decent lifestyle" in general, I think it may be if living with parents, ahem.

But mostly I find it sad that we isolate this very important aspect of health care and people legitimately have complications and die because of it at times. Glad this lady is catching up on the care she needs.

Kronsey

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #122 on: January 04, 2019, 04:20:53 PM »
I agree with what you are saying but I actually wonder if we should conclude that most people are not cut out to be investors. Probably most people would be better off with defined benefit plans like a beefed-up social security, pensions for all, or something similar. It is a tough job to go up against human psychology with masses of mostly uninterested people.

I agree with this.  I don't think most people are cut out to be investors.  The Cdn government is slowing starting to see it.  In the last few years they've raised the CPP premiums.  CPP is like American social security.

I completely agree with both of you.

In my grandfather's generation (both my grandparents were born in the 20s), union membership was very high. Most union jobs came with a pension, social security, and the general understanding by the population to have a paid off mortgage as they approached retirement. Commonly known as the three legged stool.

That was mostly on the way out with my parents generation (both parents born early 50s), with lobbyists convincing Congress to pass the 401K laws so big business could funnel the cost of providing retirement benefits to the employee rather than employer. Even with pensions being eliminated, there were still many corporate jobs that provided stable employment with lots of upward mobility.

By the time my generation got to the workforce (me and my siblings born in the 80s), not only were pensions and unions a thing of the past, but now just relying on a good job with built in promotions and raises is not a realistic option for a good majority of the population.

It is really sad when a government employee is outpacing MOST private sector employees in pay AND benefits. I have nothing against those who work for the gov't, but I think it is sad snapshot at the state of our country and our economy when the best available jobs (admittedly with a few exceptions) are government work.

Add up all those major societal shifts over the past 60 years coupled with the lack of mandatory financial education, and we now have a population with zero basic financial knowledge who is supposed to be able to create their own retirement plan, choose the right investments, understand safe withdrawal rates, understand markets go up and down (while being disciplined enough not to panic) and plan for huge future unknowns (healthcare and end of life care especially).  The truth is most of our citizens couldn't explain basic compounding interest, and yet are responsible to plan and execute their entire retirement picture.

Some easy solutions (but ones that would never be passed due to people like me and all the sleazy financial salesman being out of a job) would be:

1. Social security combined with a defined benefit plan. Say like 10% to social security (reduced from 15.3%) and then start a separate defined benefit plan of another 10% that was invested in the TSP just like all our corrupt politicians get. 20% invested wisely over a person's working career should be satisfactory for a modest retirement.

2. Medicare for all. I haven't run the numbers to see what the current 2.9% would need to be increased to, but let's say 7.5% of all income/wages.

3. A flat tax on all earnings, income, wages, capital gains, etc. No special tax treatment, period. I'm sure we could figure out what that number needed to be, then we could set a "poverty line limit" so those at the bottom get exempted from income taxes at the federal and state levels. But no more welfare through the income tax system.

4. Still allow for IRAs with no maximum contributions. This would allow those us interested in FIRE to achieve our goals but would take the pressure off of the average Joe having to DIY his own retirement plan. Also do away with retirement savings being connected to employment at all. That way big business doesn't have people by the balls with the benefits they offer. Would be a more level playing field which I think would then create better working conditions for all (hopefully easing the feeling of being chained to a good job for benefits).

I realize most of this is but a mere pipe dream. Both Dems and Repubs alike are in the back pocket of big business and special interests. I never see that changing in my lifetime.

But just wanted to point out some potential options as I agree the average Joe just isn't going to pick up a Bogle book on investing and break years of terrible habits and emotional conditioning. Maybe the growing retirement crisis will change things, but it might be too late to make adjustments by the time people in their 30's and 40's get to retirement age.

And I know my personal experience is very anecdotal, but I only have one acquaintance (my younger brother) who will be adequately prepared for retirement. And that is out of a pretty wide social circle plus all the clients I have worked for presently and over the last decade. Even though talking finances is a taboo subject, it is impossible to avoid with your accountant to some degree :)

Kronsey

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #123 on: January 04, 2019, 04:40:21 PM »
But mostly I find it sad that we isolate this very important aspect of health care and people legitimately have complications and die because of it at times. Glad this lady is catching up on the care she needs.

I agree with this. But don't tell that to the dentists in private practice. If in a fairly low dentist to population area, dentists can work a 4 day work week and bank $400K+ net without being all that great of a business person and without working too hard.

There seems to be a real lack of basic understanding among them about the state of most people's finances. They don't understand why people can't/wont pay hundreds or thousands of dollars a year for dental care out of pocket. After all, if you make half a mil a year working 4 days a week, you aren't going to understand why Johnny who works 55 hours/week at the local auto parts store cancelled his routine cleaning because he didn't feel like he could afford it.

It is accurate that many potential dental patients have misplaced priorities (would rather buy a new iPhone instead of going to the dentist twice a year for cleanings and checkups), but they are marketed to like crazy for those shiny, new objects. It is never going to be sexy to go see the hygienist no matter what marketing the dentist does. And those big corporate marketing machines are effective.

I have a couple of dentists as clients and they are really great people and great clients. But they are also out of touch with the everyday Joe in the US in the current economy.

TomTX

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #124 on: January 04, 2019, 05:11:17 PM »
She now lives in a paid off house (worth about $160K) while drawing $1K a month in SS benefits. Still has about $100K of cds and cash in savings accounts, but the interest income last year totaled around $90.

How the hell do you only get $90 a year yield on $100k? Even utterly crap local bank CDs should earn more than $1K.

Kronsey

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #125 on: January 04, 2019, 05:49:59 PM »
She now lives in a paid off house (worth about $160K) while drawing $1K a month in SS benefits. Still has about $100K of cds and cash in savings accounts, but the interest income last year totaled around $90.

How the hell do you only get $90 a year yield on $100k? Even utterly crap local bank CDs should earn more than $1K.

Most of the $100k is in a savings account paying literally nothing. I have no idea what the CDs pay, but I believe they were all in the 1-2% range. I also believe it was less than $10k of the $100k as my grandpa quit reinvesting in new CDs as his health was declining (was afraid they would need the cash immidiately).

I don't know all the complete details as I try to stay out of it. But my grandma was asking me something about RMDs for IRAs and if she would have to file taxes. I asked how much interest she received from the CDs and savings account, and she said 'I think somewhere between $85 and $95 total for the year."

At that point I told her there was no reason to go searching for the tax doc they sent her as she had no chance of having to file a return.

So as unbelievable as it is, I'm pretty confident it is 100% accurate as my grandma would never lie about that plus she was really scared to handle most of that stuff on her own after my grandfather's passing.

Tabitha

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #126 on: January 05, 2019, 12:18:38 PM »
#2)  Learned over the weekend that co-worker's sister is going to a Latin American country because she had zero dental insurance over the past 10 years, and needs 16 cavities 2 root canals and a cap that would cost 5 figures in the U.S. out of pocket.  Said person lives paycheck to paycheck as a waitress, is 28, and lives at home with parents.  Negative net wealth.  SMH.
The neighborhood I grew up in, dental insurance was for rich people and you didn't really go to the dentist unless there was a big problem. ...
If you ask me, the 28 year old waitress is being pretty mustachian by finding a cheaper way to get her necessary medical work done, instead of putting five figures on a credit card...etc.

Mustachian would be brushing and flossing like it was a religion to avoid 16 cavities plus root canals. Professional Dental Hygenist cleaning helps overcome the results of poor brushing/flossing. My brother in his 50’s still has no cavities, though he also rarely has had dental insurance. I’m not quite as disciplined, so I’ve had a few. 

The exceptions of course are impacted/wisdom teeth and chalky teeth caused by poor maternal health. My Mother has chalky teeth, and her fillings end up replaced every 10 years or so. She was determined we would have good dental habits, but good brushing for her only delays the inevitable.

AnnaGrowsAMustache

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #127 on: January 05, 2019, 02:21:29 PM »
#2)  Learned over the weekend that co-worker's sister is going to a Latin American country because she had zero dental insurance over the past 10 years, and needs 16 cavities 2 root canals and a cap that would cost 5 figures in the U.S. out of pocket.  Said person lives paycheck to paycheck as a waitress, is 28, and lives at home with parents.  Negative net wealth.  SMH.
The neighborhood I grew up in, dental insurance was for rich people and you didn't really go to the dentist unless there was a big problem. ...
If you ask me, the 28 year old waitress is being pretty mustachian by finding a cheaper way to get her necessary medical work done, instead of putting five figures on a credit card...etc.

Mustachian would be brushing and flossing like it was a religion to avoid 16 cavities plus root canals. Professional Dental Hygenist cleaning helps overcome the results of poor brushing/flossing. My brother in his 50’s still has no cavities, though he also rarely has had dental insurance. I’m not quite as disciplined, so I’ve had a few. 

The exceptions of course are impacted/wisdom teeth and chalky teeth caused by poor maternal health. My Mother has chalky teeth, and her fillings end up replaced every 10 years or so. She was determined we would have good dental habits, but good brushing for her only delays the inevitable.

This.
I avoid the dentist like the plague. I have a phobia. When I do HAVE to go, I just get knocked out completely, but the anxiety leading up to it is a killer in itself. Anyway, I'll do just about anything to avoid going - I brush, I floss, I rinse, I polish etc etc etc, I don't eat things like chewy candy or popcorn with hard bits, or drink soda or fruit juice.

Basenji

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #128 on: January 05, 2019, 02:58:52 PM »
My mother lives in Mexico. I should schedule all my dental needs for when I go down to visit her. It's insanely cheap. I think, actually, that's a thing now, medical tourism.

Dave1442397

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #129 on: January 05, 2019, 07:42:10 PM »
My mother lives in Mexico. I should schedule all my dental needs for when I go down to visit her. It's insanely cheap. I think, actually, that's a thing now, medical tourism.

Yes, it is. I have friends who've gone to Mexico and Costa Rica for dental work.

The person who went to Mexico said that the office was state-of-the-art, way ahead of their local dentist in the US.

The person who went to Costa Rica said everything went well, but had a crazy amount of work done at one time. As far as I know it all turned out ok.

Fi(re) on the Farm

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #130 on: January 06, 2019, 09:12:41 AM »
So, the government is shut down and my co-worker just realized that they can't file early and get their tax return because the IRS is furloughed. They are in a panic because they "need" their income tax refund to pay off their credit card. When they asked me what I was going to do I told them that I only get about $100 back each year. I make sure that I have my money to invest during the year instead of it being in a non-interest bearing account with the U.S.A. They really couldn't get the concept that the tax return wasn't a gift from the government but money that they paid in. They actually thought that I needed to find someone to do my taxes so I could get a bigger refund.

OtherJen

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #131 on: January 06, 2019, 09:31:28 AM »
So, the government is shut down and my co-worker just realized that they can't file early and get their tax return because the IRS is furloughed. They are in a panic because they "need" their income tax refund to pay off their credit card. When they asked me what I was going to do I told them that I only get about $100 back each year. I make sure that I have my money to invest during the year instead of it being in a non-interest bearing account with the U.S.A. They really couldn't get the concept that the tax return wasn't a gift from the government but money that they paid in. They actually thought that I needed to find someone to do my taxes so I could get a bigger refund.

Yeah, I think this is the first time I’ve been glad about my tax situation as a freelancer. My estimated tax payments usually fall a bit short, but husband’s refund makes up most or all of the difference. We never get a refund so we don’t even consider it. However, most people we know plan big things around their refunds. If the shutdown continues indefinitely, I expect to hear a LOT of outrage starting next month.

Gin1984

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #132 on: January 06, 2019, 10:02:06 AM »
We have a generous early retirement program, and a significant number of people who “retire” and return on contract often on reduced hours or project work. One coworker “retired” in the fall, but was at the Xmas party with her team. She’s working a full schedule doing the same work as before. She proud of her frugality because she drives (nurses) a 12 year old Toyota, but the reason that she and her husband can’t make it on the their two professional salaries (she’s pulling 120k and his is at a higher grade) is they’ve been paying tuition for three adult children out of cash flow (no savings)PLUS four mortgages (their own plus three). The reason they still have a mortgage is they pulled out their equity for three down payments.  I hope the third income stream keeps their head above water longer than the next department reorganization which will end her contract.
Are the three other mortgages on rental properties?

LiveLean

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #133 on: January 06, 2019, 01:47:33 PM »
I was without dental insurance for about 8 years between being self-employed (as always) and my wife either being a SAHM or having an employer that didn't provide it. Unlike self-employed health insurance (at least pre-ObamaCare when we had it), which was outrageously expensive but at least easy to understand and get the coverage you wanted, self-employed dental insurance is a train wreck. You never knew what you were getting and what few choices you had in terms of dentists (usually the chain strip mall types.)

Not wanting to go without dental care - and thankfully this was mostly pre-kids -- we simply took advantage of all of those introductory $59 cleaning/X-Ray offers that dentists are always offering. Sure it was a pain to go to a new dentist every 6-12 months and fill out all of the new patient paperwork -- this was before your longtime medical providers made you fill it all out every appointment anyway --- but it kept our teeth in good shape for about $120 per person per year.

Here's the thing, too. If you floss daily and brush after every meal, preferably once a day with a SonicCare or similar, don't smoke and eat a reasonable diet, your dental needs should be few. I'm 49 and have never had a cavity. And after going through braces as a kid, I do everything possible to keep my teeth in mint condition. It's not that hard.

exterous

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #134 on: January 07, 2019, 04:03:25 AM »
Figured I'd post a good story to show that not all is lost with coworkers. I had the pleasure to be able to hire an excellent intern into a full-time position. This meant he could go from working 65 hours a week total split between two jobs down to 40 hours a week at one job and make more. After his first full week I was asking him how things were going and if he had any questions on the benefits. He said "No" but I reminded him about our excellent company match. He said he already set it up to completely max out his contribution because he was happy enough to work less and he didn't need to increase his spending to match his salary. He's 26

I-Ranger

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #135 on: January 07, 2019, 07:49:26 AM »

Here's the thing, too. If you floss daily and brush after every meal, preferably once a day with a SonicCare or similar, don't smoke and eat a reasonable diet, your dental needs should be few. I'm 49 and have never had a cavity. And after going through braces as a kid, I do everything possible to keep my teeth in mint condition. It's not that hard.

This.

While my co-workers routinely miss work because of dental appointments and complain about the cost of some of their dental bills, I am left to wonder how necessary much of it is. I am 42, have never had a cavity, and have not been to a dentist in 15 years. I brush every morning, eat a pretty healthy diet, don't smoke, and exercise regularly. I stopped flossing years ago because it seemed stupid, and as it turns out, flossing was dropped from HHS guidelines because there is no real evidence that it helps. (https://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/03/health/flossing-teeth-cavities.html)

I don't see a podiatrist, dermatologist, or cardiologist two times every year, so why would I go see a dentist that often?



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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #136 on: January 07, 2019, 08:45:59 AM »
Hey, y'all, guess what? People are different!  Different body chemistry, different history (especially fluoride). 

And I'm curious how you "know" you don't have any cavities when you haven't been to the dentist in 15 years. 

exterous

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #137 on: January 07, 2019, 08:48:31 AM »

Here's the thing, too. If you floss daily and brush after every meal, preferably once a day with a SonicCare or similar, don't smoke and eat a reasonable diet, your dental needs should be few. I'm 49 and have never had a cavity. And after going through braces as a kid, I do everything possible to keep my teeth in mint condition. It's not that hard.

This.

While my co-workers routinely miss work because of dental appointments and complain about the cost of some of their dental bills, I am left to wonder how necessary much of it is. I am 42, have never had a cavity, and have not been to a dentist in 15 years. I brush every morning, eat a pretty healthy diet, don't smoke, and exercise regularly. I stopped flossing years ago because it seemed stupid, and as it turns out, flossing was dropped from HHS guidelines because there is no real evidence that it helps. (https://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/03/health/flossing-teeth-cavities.html)

I don't see a podiatrist, dermatologist, or cardiologist two times every year, so why would I go see a dentist that often?

It can depend on your body and your saliva. My wife could brush everother day and not get a cavity. I brush 2-3 times a day (including with a sonic care) and occasionally get cavities. Our diet is basically the same.

When I complained about the fairness of that to my dentist he told me how much saliva is produced and it's pH has a large effect on tooth health. So some of it is beyond their (my) control

I-Ranger

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #138 on: January 07, 2019, 09:27:24 AM »
Hey, y'all, guess what? People are different!  Different body chemistry, different history (especially fluoride). 

And I'm curious how you "know" you don't have any cavities when you haven't been to the dentist in 15 years.

Fair enough, I may have 32 cavities right now, but I don't have any pain, temperature sensitivity, or discoloring, so I have no plans to visit a dentist until I do. It's a risk I'm willing to take.

The last time I was at the dentist, he was surprised that I still had my wisdom teeth. He recommended I get them removed, and said "If you don't, they are going to give you problems." I have had no problems with my wisdom teeth. Avoiding the cost and risk of an unnecessary surgery seems like a Mustachian decision to me.


OtherJen

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #139 on: January 07, 2019, 09:50:48 AM »
Hey, y'all, guess what? People are different!  Different body chemistry, different history (especially fluoride). 

And I'm curious how you "know" you don't have any cavities when you haven't been to the dentist in 15 years.

Fair enough, I may have 32 cavities right now, but I don't have any pain, temperature sensitivity, or discoloring, so I have no plans to visit a dentist until I do. It's a risk I'm willing to take.

The last time I was at the dentist, he was surprised that I still had my wisdom teeth. He recommended I get them removed, and said "If you don't, they are going to give you problems." I have had no problems with my wisdom teeth. Avoiding the cost and risk of an unnecessary surgery seems like a Mustachian decision to me.

Wisdom tooth removal often depends on the size of your jaw. Even if they grow in straight, they can sometimes slowly push other teeth out of alignment and cause malocclusion over time, which can cause other problems especially with age. For example, age-related dysphagia and a reduced ability to chew food properly due to malocclusion could increase your risks of choking and aspiration pneumonia (I'm a science editor, and you'd be surprised at how many papers I read about geriatric health issues related to chewing and swallowing ability). Dentists are actually experts in their field, and it sounds like this one is giving you the actually Mustachian suggestion of taking care of something before it becomes a more expensive problem.

If your wisdom teeth are straight (e.g., not impacted), it may only involve a couple shots of novocaine, pliers, and some painkillers (I speak from personal experience). At the very least, it would be worth visiting a dentist at least every couple of years to make sure that the wisdom teeth are not causing a need for orthodontic correction.
« Last Edit: January 07, 2019, 10:03:48 AM by OtherJen »

fattest_foot

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #140 on: January 07, 2019, 09:59:08 AM »
It can depend on your body and your saliva. My wife could brush everother day and not get a cavity. I brush 2-3 times a day (including with a sonic care) and occasionally get cavities. Our diet is basically the same.

When I complained about the fairness of that to my dentist he told me how much saliva is produced and it's pH has a large effect on tooth health. So some of it is beyond their (my) control

Do you drink a lot of water? I had a dentist a long time ago who told me that if you drink lots of water after eating/drinking, it helps rebalance the acidity in your mouth.

I'm also one who doesn't go to the dentist often. I brush twice a day, floss at night, and only drink water. I had about 4 years between dental cleanings and the dentist was shocked how good my teeth looked (I also had a lot of fillings when I was younger and had a crap diet, so it's not an issue of just genetics). It's now been about 7 years since my last dentist visit.

economista

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #141 on: January 07, 2019, 10:26:17 AM »
I'm a government employee but our agency had enough money to ride out a few weeks of a shutdown. We are officially out of money and we get to work for 4 hours today to close things up and then we are furloughed until the shutdown ends. Most of us have enough savings that even if we don't get backpay we aren't really worried about it but a few people are freaking out/their spouses are freaking out. Today is definitely a day when you can separate the mustacians from the others :)

For my part I'm going to tile the backsplash in my new house.

Dicey

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #142 on: January 07, 2019, 11:36:36 AM »
It can depend on your body and your saliva. My wife could brush everother day and not get a cavity. I brush 2-3 times a day (including with a sonic care) and occasionally get cavities. Our diet is basically the same.

When I complained about the fairness of that to my dentist he told me how much saliva is produced and it's pH has a large effect on tooth health. So some of it is beyond their (my) control

Do you drink a lot of water? I had a dentist a long time ago who told me that if you drink lots of water after eating/drinking, it helps rebalance the acidity in your mouth.

I'm also one who doesn't go to the dentist often. I brush twice a day, floss at night, and only drink water. I had about 4 years between dental cleanings and the dentist was shocked how good my teeth looked (I also had a lot of fillings when I was younger and had a crap diet, so it's not an issue of just genetics). It's now been about 7 years since my last dentist visit.
Fillings don't last forever. If you have some really old ones, it might be prudent to have them checked.

I-Ranger

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #143 on: January 07, 2019, 01:24:53 PM »
Hey, y'all, guess what? People are different!  Different body chemistry, different history (especially fluoride). 

And I'm curious how you "know" you don't have any cavities when you haven't been to the dentist in 15 years.

Fair enough, I may have 32 cavities right now, but I don't have any pain, temperature sensitivity, or discoloring, so I have no plans to visit a dentist until I do. It's a risk I'm willing to take.

The last time I was at the dentist, he was surprised that I still had my wisdom teeth. He recommended I get them removed, and said "If you don't, they are going to give you problems." I have had no problems with my wisdom teeth. Avoiding the cost and risk of an unnecessary surgery seems like a Mustachian decision to me.

Wisdom tooth removal often depends on the size of your jaw. Even if they grow in straight, they can sometimes slowly push other teeth out of alignment and cause malocclusion over time, which can cause other problems especially with age. For example, age-related dysphagia and a reduced ability to chew food properly due to malocclusion could increase your risks of choking and aspiration pneumonia (I'm a science editor, and you'd be surprised at how many papers I read about geriatric health issues related to chewing and swallowing ability). Dentists are actually experts in their field, and it sounds like this one is giving you the actually Mustachian suggestion of taking care of something before it becomes a more expensive problem.

If your wisdom teeth are straight (e.g., not impacted), it may only involve a couple shots of novocaine, pliers, and some painkillers (I speak from personal experience). At the very least, it would be worth visiting a dentist at least every couple of years to make sure that the wisdom teeth are not causing a need for orthodontic correction.

Or, I could take the Mustachian route and do some research myself, and discover studies such as this one from the American Journal of Public Health, which concludes that 2/3 of wisdom tooth extractions are unnecessary. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1963310/ "The Prophylactic Extraction of Third Molars: A Public Health Hazard."

Back on topic, my mind was blown the other day by co-worker telling me that she can't afford to put more than the 3%   (matched)into her 401k, despite her and her husband making a combined 200k while living in an insanely LCOL area. I did show her a couple MMM posts, and she seemed to like the FIRE idea rather than reject it out of hand, so perhaps a seed was planted...
 

NoVa

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #144 on: January 07, 2019, 01:48:04 PM »
My dentist asked me to have one wisdom tooth removed, because if it went bad it could easily affect the tooth next to it. The other three he was not concerned with, and they are still in there.

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #145 on: January 07, 2019, 02:52:34 PM »
This is the first time I've had a story to share, which is far more exciting for me than it should be. . .

Coworker comes into work today, fist day back since he finished for Christmas, and when asked how his time off was he slumped in his chair and started complaining about how expensive the holidays were.

Apparently he and his wife had to host their two children and partners, their 6 grandchildren, the partners parents, as well as his and his wife's parents, siblings, siblings partners and children. Totaling 49 people for Christmas day. They couldn't all sleep in the house, so he and his wife paid for hotel rooms for all of them, and they spend Christmas through to New Year living in a hotel, paying for everyone to eat, have presents (iPads and gadgets from what I could gather) and do activities.

He ran up a bill into the five figures, just to host Christmas.

?? I'm so confused. To me "hosting" Xmas means opening your doors to people, not paying for hotel rooms. How did he get suckered into that??

@Piglet : what a depressing story about that mother not having enough courage or confidence to leave an @hole who was abusive to her daughter. There's more than one reason to have FU money I suppose, but it takes a spine to use it. :/

honeybbq

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #146 on: January 07, 2019, 03:01:22 PM »

Here's the thing, too. If you floss daily and brush after every meal, preferably once a day with a SonicCare or similar, don't smoke and eat a reasonable diet, your dental needs should be few. I'm 49 and have never had a cavity. And after going through braces as a kid, I do everything possible to keep my teeth in mint condition. It's not that hard.

This.

While my co-workers routinely miss work because of dental appointments and complain about the cost of some of their dental bills, I am left to wonder how necessary much of it is. I am 42, have never had a cavity, and have not been to a dentist in 15 years. I brush every morning, eat a pretty healthy diet, don't smoke, and exercise regularly. I stopped flossing years ago because it seemed stupid, and as it turns out, flossing was dropped from HHS guidelines because there is no real evidence that it helps. (https://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/03/health/flossing-teeth-cavities.html)

I don't see a podiatrist, dermatologist, or cardiologist two times every year, so why would I go see a dentist that often?

You all should consider yourself lucky. A lot of it is genetic. I have shit teeth. Always have. I do not drink soda, and rarely eat sweets. I've had molar sealed and needed root canals under them. I brush and floss like a mofo and always get cavities. My spouse is much more laid back about his dental care and I think he's had one cavity in 10 years? My gums are beautiful and super healthy... my teeth, just hate life. It sucks. 

exterous

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #147 on: January 08, 2019, 12:08:05 AM »
It can depend on your body and your saliva. My wife could brush everother day and not get a cavity. I brush 2-3 times a day (including with a sonic care) and occasionally get cavities. Our diet is basically the same.

When I complained about the fairness of that to my dentist he told me how much saliva is produced and it's pH has a large effect on tooth health. So some of it is beyond their (my) control

Do you drink a lot of water? I had a dentist a long time ago who told me that if you drink lots of water after eating/drinking, it helps rebalance the acidity in your mouth.

I'm also one who doesn't go to the dentist often. I brush twice a day, floss at night, and only drink water. I had about 4 years between dental cleanings and the dentist was shocked how good my teeth looked (I also had a lot of fillings when I was younger and had a crap diet, so it's not an issue of just genetics). It's now been about 7 years since my last dentist visit.

I do drink a lot of water. I have it for most meals and refill my water bottle at work a few times during the day

Fomerly known as something

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #148 on: January 08, 2019, 04:26:16 AM »
I was doing a periodic background investigation on a co-worker (Law Enforcement).  Speaking to one of his neighbors.  One of my standard questions is does, X live above his means.  Neighbor says, no X is in fact very frugal.  I was actually stunned, I was not expecting that he lived large but I don't associate frugal with X.  X is better than ok with money (has been around long enough to be a 401k millionaire at least before the last downturn.) but the office in no way considers him to be the frugal one.  He's more penny wise pound foolish.  He's the one with the timeshare that he can't find the time use, doesn't 100% max out his 401k but will tell you about the great deal he got from Khol's. 

But then he lives in one of the "richer" subdivisions a couple of miles from me, likely compared to the rest of the neighborhood he is the frugal one.

Dicey

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Re: Overheard at Work 2
« Reply #149 on: January 08, 2019, 10:04:02 AM »
I was thinking about the whole dental care thing while in the shower this morning. I wonder how many of the folks who used not having insurance to avoid going to the dentist somehow managed to find enough for manicures, massages, parties, etc. I guess it's always about priorities.