Author Topic: One possible route to never-retirement -- restaurant ruined life  (Read 19675 times)

paddedhat

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Re: One possible route to never-retirement -- restaurant ruined life
« Reply #50 on: November 22, 2017, 03:48:27 PM »

Another family member close to them is opening another business in the same town.  I asked who was funding this and fortunately they are not.  It sounds like an economic development agency is giving a loan (they are very "anti-socialist" program types too)

Sounds like some of the farmers I know. They hate the government, liberals, dems, blah, blah, blah................ But have no problem waiting by the mailbox for that government check to roll in. "yep, just got my crop insurance check. Fifth time I had a claim, in the last eight years".  But if you are a minority and getting a dime for any reason, from anybody but your employer, well, you're part of the problem.  It's enough to make your head explode.

Timmm

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Re: One possible route to never-retirement -- restaurant ruined life
« Reply #51 on: November 22, 2017, 04:59:41 PM »
The other interesting thing was how many high dollar, yet failing, enterprises like night clubs, big eating establishments, etc.... ended up burning to the ground.

I used to work for a company that provided services to a specific and generally "romantic" type of retail shop. When one of these shops cancelled some service, they'd record a reason for it - I think it was 8 or 9 of the most common. "Burned to the ground" was usually in the top three and generally understood to be the exit plan for most.

We knew a very successful guy who had always dreamed of opening a restaurant, and finally did it with pretty big fanfare. He had the means to hire out all of the unpleasant work, and didn't have to skimp on a nonprime location or really anything else. It seemed like a bustling business, but I asked him a month or two after opening if the business really was as hard to make self-sustaining as even an outsider like me expected. He said, "Let's put it this way: I'm not quitting my day job"

BTDretire

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Re: One possible route to never-retirement -- restaurant ruined life
« Reply #52 on: November 29, 2017, 07:56:05 PM »
A LOT of people think being self-employed means having an easy life. I run into this mentality all the time. It's the same b.s. that MLMs are selling: be your own boss. set your own hours. have it easy. don't answer to anyone else. you are your own boss. you are an entrepreneur. it's going to be easy street.

I think 90% of businesses fail because people who start them think it will be easy, because they'll be their own boss.
  I won't be very specific, but my wife and I are self employed, selling one single food item.
It started as a side hustle for my wife, she did it for 3 or 4 hours a day after her regular job.
At some point my work was slow, so I started working mornings and she would come in the afternoon. We parked in a public area and used our existing vehicle, making our overhead very low. About 1 or 2 years in, my wife said, "why don't you quit your job and do this full time?
I said I will--- if you will. We started full time and not to long after that we were forced to rent a spot, which worked out very well, because of comfort, heating cooling and a better overall appearance. Our cost increased but still very low by any business standard.
  Our nut is about $30 a day, we more than double the price of our product so our break even
point is $60 in sales. We have been at it 15 years.
 Now the hard part, we were both working 50 to 60 hours a week, (a little less in winter)  more than 10 hours a day, 7 days, 363 days a year and life was all about the business. I remember one year, we dropped down to 362 days, we took Easter off :-) Just the two of us.
  Did we make any money, most would say no, we made about $15 an hour, it was a lot of hours. The yearly income was about 2.5 times what we were making before the business.
 Even with the higher income we continued to live frugally and are now FI.

mre

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Re: One possible route to never-retirement -- restaurant ruined life
« Reply #53 on: November 30, 2017, 11:38:20 AM »
Found an earlier article about the owner when everything was supposedly going swimmingly.  After reading the article about his life being ruined it is a good reminder that you never can tell what somebody is going through by what they present publicly.

https://baronmag.ca/2014/12/office-tale-of-robert-maxwell-ownerproprietor-of-the-beech-tree-restaurant-and-bar/


I do find the title "A Restaurant Ruined My Life" to be a bit telling of this guy's problem.  "I Ruined My Life with a Restaurant" would be much more accurate.

Michael in ABQ

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Re: One possible route to never-retirement -- restaurant ruined life
« Reply #54 on: November 30, 2017, 12:12:40 PM »
A close family member of mine was convinced by his much younger, second wife to pour a lot of money into renovating and old home and opening a boutique "gift" store of sorts. 

Last winter we migrated from a post boom mountain community with a shit-ton of excess retail space, mostly strip store stuff. The area was famous for a Texas mentality toward zoning, and a boom that lasted decades. There was always too many strip mall stores, and lots of vacancies. The wife and I used to take bets on how many months it would take for the newest restaurant, gift shop, ceramics shop, antique store, candle store, etc..... to go from grand opening, to failed. Several of these businesses were local women who were busy doing, "what they always dreamed of". Most never made a year, and we saw a couple of restaurants fail before lift off. The tenant would dump a pile of cash into renos, schedule a grand opening, and never quite get the door open. The other interesting thing was how many high dollar, yet failing, enterprises like night clubs, big eating establishments, etc.... ended up burning to the ground.

My favorite is a really sharp gift shop in a western mountain town, that we have spent a lot of time in. The place has been open for maybe a decade, but it always made me think, when we walked through. The owners are really well dressed, like they just stepped out of a high end western clothing photo shoot, and the place is extremely well done. The building was a hugely expensive renovation of a turn of the century mercantile and it is stunning. The odd part is that the tourists passing through town are not usually high rollers, and this place looked like it should be in Aspen or Jackson, WY. The other interesting thing is that is it a very seasonal location, and from middle fall to the end of the spring, the place is pretty lonely. I asked a friend about it, since he was a local. He laughed, and explained that the owner's are trophy wives of some very, very wealthy local men, and no the place does stand a chance in hell of making money, but it "keeps the ladies busy".  well, alrighty then.

I work in the commercial real estate industry and I often hear from brokers about some rich guy building or renovating a property so that his wife could run a business. I just met with a local broker in a small mountain community at a newer brewery. He told me how the owner bought an old building and spent hundreds of thousands on renovating it and buying all the equipment to produce a few thousand barrels of beer a year. Out of 50-60 breweries in the state only the top 5-10 are producing at that level, and virtually all of those have retail distribution with cans or bottles. So less than a year after opening the guy has already put the building on the market, plus another restaurant he sunk a bunch of money into renovating (which has been closed for the last year). I doubt the place is producing or selling more than a few hundred barrels a year, mostly to tourists during the winter ski season. I suspect there's some bank out there who loaned him a bunch of money that will be taking a substantial haircut when they get back a bunch of brewing equipment and a couple of buildings in a small mountain village where literally half the retail space is vacant.

stoaX

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Re: One possible route to never-retirement -- restaurant ruined life
« Reply #55 on: November 30, 2017, 01:14:23 PM »
I do find the title "A Restaurant Ruined My Life" to be a bit telling of this guy's problem.  "I Ruined My Life with a Restaurant" would be much more accurate.
That's an insightful observation.   

Looking back I'm quite happy that I worked in restaurants in high school and college - it guaranteed that I would not have any romantic notions about the restaurant business.

FINate

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Re: One possible route to never-retirement -- restaurant ruined life
« Reply #56 on: November 30, 2017, 01:47:42 PM »
Found an earlier article about the owner when everything was supposedly going swimmingly.  After reading the article about his life being ruined it is a good reminder that you never can tell what somebody is going through by what they present publicly.

https://baronmag.ca/2014/12/office-tale-of-robert-maxwell-ownerproprietor-of-the-beech-tree-restaurant-and-bar/


I do find the title "A Restaurant Ruined My Life" to be a bit telling of this guy's problem.  "I Ruined My Life with a Restaurant" would be much more accurate.

Interesting link! To a certain extent we all work to project an image to the world, which I suppose is a reflection of how we'd like to view ourselves. In this instance the image of a creative and bohemian restauranteur cost him dearly.
« Last Edit: November 30, 2017, 01:49:38 PM by FINate »

Sid Hoffman

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Re: One possible route to never-retirement -- restaurant ruined life
« Reply #57 on: December 01, 2017, 11:09:48 AM »
Also disproves the commonly-touted phrase, "Do what you love, and the money will follow."  or the similar, "Follow your passion, and you'll never work a day in your life."

Exactly what I came to post.  I see this all the time on Twitter and Imgur, which are dominated by 15-24 year olds.  They truly believe that if you aren't following your passion, that means you are lost as a person and have a worthless life.  Meanwhile those same people rarely volunteer, help others, get involved with their families, raise kids, and so on.  The very things that I and many other older people view as giving my life value.

It was years ago I had a boss say that she worked to live, she didn't live to work.  It's a cliché now, but at the time it really put things in perspective for me.  It was ok to not feel like a rockstar on stage when I came to work, sat down at my cubicle and started churning out automation scripts, debugging failures, and resolving trouble tickets for other teams.  My worth and value were not in my career, they were based on who I am as a person, which extends far beyond just my job.  It was actually quite liberating to not feel like I had to derive worth from my job.

ixtap

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Re: One possible route to never-retirement -- restaurant ruined life
« Reply #58 on: December 01, 2017, 11:27:26 AM »
Also disproves the commonly-touted phrase, "Do what you love, and the money will follow."  or the similar, "Follow your passion, and you'll never work a day in your life."

Exactly what I came to post.  I see this all the time on Twitter and Imgur, which are dominated by 15-24 year olds.  They truly believe that if you aren't following your passion, that means you are lost as a person and have a worthless life.  Meanwhile those same people rarely volunteer, help others, get involved with their families, raise kids, and so on.  The very things that I and many other older people view as giving my life value.

It was years ago I had a boss say that she worked to live, she didn't live to work.  It's a cliché now, but at the time it really put things in perspective for me.  It was ok to not feel like a rockstar on stage when I came to work, sat down at my cubicle and started churning out automation scripts, debugging failures, and resolving trouble tickets for other teams.  My worth and value were not in my career, they were based on who I am as a person, which extends far beyond just my job.  It was actually quite liberating to not feel like I had to derive worth from my job.

I just don't get the leap from "I love cooking" to "I should open a restaurant." If you love cooking, become a chef or a caterer, running a restaurant is for someone who loves organizing and accounting.

zinnie

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Re: One possible route to never-retirement -- restaurant ruined life
« Reply #59 on: December 01, 2017, 11:43:16 AM »
Wow this article stressed me out. And he made lots of bad choices, clearly, but I also felt for the guy. There is certainly a cultural issue at the forefront of this as well--the "follow your passion" mentality that I see in a lot in my peer group. They make a lot of bad choices when they believe that they should just follow their dreams and the rest will work itself out.

At least he learned something! And hopefully will inspire others to think twice before going on the same path.

Ann

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Re: One possible route to never-retirement -- restaurant ruined life
« Reply #60 on: December 01, 2017, 11:44:20 AM »
I just don't get the leap from "I love cooking" to "I should open a restaurant." If you love cooking, become a chef or a caterer, running a restaurant is for someone who loves organizing and accounting.

Yes!  Or maybe work on making that food truck profitable . . . a smaller operation.  I can't believe he promised his wife to be home in time to tuck the kids in.

vivophoenix

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Re: One possible route to never-retirement -- restaurant ruined life
« Reply #61 on: December 01, 2017, 01:19:49 PM »
Also disproves the commonly-touted phrase, "Do what you love, and the money will follow."  or the similar, "Follow your passion, and you'll never work a day in your life."

Exactly what I came to post.  I see this all the time on Twitter and Imgur, which are dominated by 15-24 year olds.  They truly believe that if you aren't following your passion, that means you are lost as a person and have a worthless life.  Meanwhile those same people rarely volunteer, help others, get involved with their families, raise kids, and so on.  The very things that I and many other older people view as giving my life value.

It was years ago I had a boss say that she worked to live, she didn't live to work.  It's a cliché now, but at the time it really put things in perspective for me.  It was ok to not feel like a rockstar on stage when I came to work, sat down at my cubicle and started churning out automation scripts, debugging failures, and resolving trouble tickets for other teams.  My worth and value were not in my career, they were based on who I am as a person, which extends far beyond just my job.  It was actually quite liberating to not feel like I had to derive worth from my job.

i don't agree that the definition of a meaningful life should include:  volunteer, help others, get involved with their families, raise kids, and so on. this assumes you find value in centering other people. it's not a millennial thing to want possessions. millennials did not invent the concept of keeping up with the Joneses.  if anything working in your 'passion' is freeing. previously people received validation from types of jobs, and often those jobs were either considered hardworking or high earning, or both. But these are external influences. ( people wanted to be Drs and lawyers or police officers) now people want to do what brings them joy. and often money does follow. but the amount of money does vary. the problem is attitudes towards displays of wealth and dominance have not caught up yet.

why do you think hipsters are a thing?

 people who love cheap unpopular shit and use it as power displays:  that's a millennial thing.


« Last Edit: December 01, 2017, 01:29:18 PM by vivophoenix »

Miss Piggy

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Re: One possible route to never-retirement -- restaurant ruined life
« Reply #62 on: December 01, 2017, 01:46:59 PM »
The guy may have a future as a writer...assuming he wrote the story.

FINate

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Re: One possible route to never-retirement -- restaurant ruined life
« Reply #63 on: December 01, 2017, 01:54:29 PM »
Also disproves the commonly-touted phrase, "Do what you love, and the money will follow."  or the similar, "Follow your passion, and you'll never work a day in your life."

Exactly what I came to post.  I see this all the time on Twitter and Imgur, which are dominated by 15-24 year olds.  They truly believe that if you aren't following your passion, that means you are lost as a person and have a worthless life.  Meanwhile those same people rarely volunteer, help others, get involved with their families, raise kids, and so on.  The very things that I and many other older people view as giving my life value.

It was years ago I had a boss say that she worked to live, she didn't live to work.  It's a cliché now, but at the time it really put things in perspective for me.  It was ok to not feel like a rockstar on stage when I came to work, sat down at my cubicle and started churning out automation scripts, debugging failures, and resolving trouble tickets for other teams.  My worth and value were not in my career, they were based on who I am as a person, which extends far beyond just my job.  It was actually quite liberating to not feel like I had to derive worth from my job.

i don't agree that the definition of a meaningful life should include:  volunteer, help others, get involved with their families, raise kids, and so on. this assumes you find value in centering other people. it's not a millennial thing to want possessions. millennials did not invent the concept of keeping up with the Joneses.  if anything working in your 'passion' is freeing. previously people received validation from types of jobs, and often those jobs were either considered hardworking or high earning, or both. But these are external influences. ( people wanted to be Drs and lawyers or police officers) now people want to do what brings them joy. and often money does follow. but the amount of money does vary. the problem is attitudes towards displays of wealth and dominance have not caught up yet.

why do you think hipsters are a thing?

 people who love cheap unpopular shit and use it as power displays:  that's a millennial thing.

IMO life is all about relationships. Not in a possessive sense, like what I get out of it, but being other focused. This requires commitment, vulnerability, and sacrifice, and it's scary at times but totally worth it. But that's just like my opinion, man.

The love of money (possessions) has been around since the invention of money, though philosophers the world over agree that there's more to life than money or creating or being productive. In previous generations most jobs were neither fulfilling nor high paying. My grandmother worked for 20 years in a candy factory, literally straightening candy bars on a conveyer belt 8hrs/day, and to her it was "the best job she ever had" because it was airconditioned and she got to sit, and it was consistent work that provided for her family (She was an Okei who lost everything in the dust bowl and moved to CA and then worked in the Oakland shipyard). For most people work is about making a living - not about getting rich, or fulfillment, just making ends meet. I have nothing against people who find fulfilling work, good for them! But I see a lot of people chasing phantoms, the elusive well paying passion, and doing so well beyond the point of being reasonable (like the story that prompted this thread).

And people loving cheap unpopular shit is not a millennial thing. The hippies did this, and before them numerous ascetic movements. When I was in high school in the early 90's, back when grunge and punk were a thing, you were looked down upon as "preppy" if you didn't appear slightly homeless. Used, vintage, off brand, etc. Back then nothing made a kid cooler than discovering their father's forgotten and very worn t-shirts from the 70's.

lhamo

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Re: One possible route to never-retirement -- restaurant ruined life
« Reply #64 on: December 01, 2017, 08:52:53 PM »
Similar story with a slightly more sympathetic protagonist:

https://blog.usejournal.com/how-to-watch-your-successful-business-fail-in-5-easy-steps-a79a8af6e027

I remember the stories about her opening the second store, and closing it down just weeks later.  Tough, tough business food....

lhamo

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Re: One possible route to never-retirement -- restaurant ruined life
« Reply #65 on: December 02, 2017, 11:48:09 AM »
Similar story with a slightly more sympathetic protagonist:

https://blog.usejournal.com/how-to-watch-your-successful-business-fail-in-5-easy-steps-a79a8af6e027

I remember the stories about her opening the second store, and closing it down just weeks later.  Tough, tough business food....

I read the article and in it she mentions she did all her due diligence but wasn't "making a profit" part of it?

I think this is one of the hazards all people with small businesses face -- the common knowledge is that it takes awhile to get going, and you will not make money for the first year or two.  If you are smart, you build up your savings and give yourself a nice long runway.  And preferably start building things in other ways long before you incur the expense of a physical location.  And don't take out loans.  She did build her reputation, but it sounds like she had loans/investors from the very beginning.  And a spouse whose income could support them.  That makes it hard to pull the plug, because you keep thinking the next month is going to be the one where you turn the corner/become profitable.   But the expenses keep mounting.   And a luxury food item is easy for people to cut out of their budget.  Which sometimes needs to happen, even in a place like Seattle where the economy is booming, because other people's basic expenses are going up too.


facepalm

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Re: One possible route to never-retirement -- restaurant ruined life
« Reply #66 on: December 03, 2017, 10:25:16 AM »


And people loving cheap unpopular shit is not a millennial thing. The hippies did this, and before them numerous ascetic movements. When I was in high school in the early 90's, back when grunge and punk were a thing, you were looked down upon as "preppy" if you didn't appear slightly homeless. Used, vintage, off brand, etc. Back then nothing made a kid cooler than discovering their father's forgotten and very worn t-shirts from the 70's.

"People loving cheap unpopular shit and using it as a power display" is an attempt at irony and is a form of reverse snobbery, and is a hipster thing. People didn't drive Ramblers or wear Sears Toughskins in the sixties and seventies because they were attempting to be ironic or engage in parody display, they did so because they were cheap.

My dad owned a shop on the Haight in the sixties, and I spent a lot of time there from '65 through '68. My personal observation is that many there were disenchanted with the system and wanted out, and were more interested in the collective version of what freedom was at that time. Little interest in impressing others unless it would get them high (or laid). Hanging out, getting high, listening to KSAN, seemed to be all that the throngs at GG Park cared about. No one bought ironic status objects because no one had any money.

When shit soured and things got real they had to leave SF and get jobs. Fun times.

Take care.
« Last Edit: December 03, 2017, 10:28:11 AM by facepalm »

FINate

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Re: One possible route to never-retirement -- restaurant ruined life
« Reply #67 on: December 03, 2017, 04:24:03 PM »
Early on cheapness was also a primary motivation for hipsters (e.g. PBR). Like every other group before them, including the hippies, style/preferences evolves into a way to identify group membership. As a distinctive group grows in popularity it attracts new converts, diminishing it's distinctiveness. As a matter of self preservation it becomes more exclusive, snobbish. A hippie that came into money wouldn't suddenly go out and start buying nice clothes and fancy cars - their group would look down on them for their consumerism and displays of wealth - it's a reflection of values. The hipster thing is getting pretty long in the tooth (I remember bitching about hipsters over 10 years ago!) and it's now completely co-opted by corporate interests hawking their mass produced and overpriced 'bespoke' goods. What started as cheap and unpopular has become expensive and snobbish. So, no, I don't see anything particularly unique about millennial hipsters.   

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Re: One possible route to never-retirement -- restaurant ruined life
« Reply #68 on: December 03, 2017, 07:53:47 PM »
Early on cheapness was also a primary motivation for hipsters (e.g. PBR). Like every other group before them, including the hippies, style/preferences evolves into a way to identify group membership. As a distinctive group grows in popularity it attracts new converts, diminishing it's distinctiveness. As a matter of self preservation it becomes more exclusive, snobbish. A hippie that came into money wouldn't suddenly go out and start buying nice clothes and fancy cars - their group would look down on them for their consumerism and displays of wealth - it's a reflection of values. The hipster thing is getting pretty long in the tooth (I remember bitching about hipsters over 10 years ago!) and it's now completely co-opted by corporate interests hawking their mass produced and overpriced 'bespoke' goods. What started as cheap and unpopular has become expensive and snobbish. So, no, I don't see anything particularly unique about millennial hipsters.   

If you want a lesson in social hilarity, take a look at Woodstock, NY. At the time of the big music festival it was an extreme conservative bastion, however since then the locals realized they could make more money off tourism than they could off reactionary politics. So now it's wall-to-wall hemp, head shops, candles, little cafes where people can hang out and discuss Marx, and not a commercial establishment in sight. They're still a magnet for the people wanting to relive the version of the 1970's they remember, kind of like a tie-dyed version of the Society for Creative Anachronism.

The hippies that got money went to Taos, NM and Sedona, AZ.

MgoSam

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Re: One possible route to never-retirement -- restaurant ruined life
« Reply #69 on: December 04, 2017, 01:39:39 PM »

My grandmother worked for 20 years in a candy factory, literally straightening candy bars on a conveyer belt 8hrs/day, and to her it was "the best job she ever had" because it was airconditioned and she got to sit, and it was consistent work that provided for her family (She was an Okei who lost everything in the dust bowl and moved to CA and then worked in the Oakland shipyard). For most people work is about making a living - not about getting rich, or fulfillment, just making ends meet. I have nothing against people who find fulfilling work, good for them! But I see a lot of people chasing phantoms, the elusive well paying passion, and doing so well beyond the point of being reasonable (like the story that prompted this thread).


Great point you made about your grandmother. Every once in a while I realize how many parts of my job I dislike and then I will realize how many people are working harder with more stress and for less and it helps me remember all the good things I like about my position.

FINate

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Re: One possible route to never-retirement -- restaurant ruined life
« Reply #70 on: December 04, 2017, 02:21:07 PM »
Early on cheapness was also a primary motivation for hipsters (e.g. PBR). Like every other group before them, including the hippies, style/preferences evolves into a way to identify group membership. As a distinctive group grows in popularity it attracts new converts, diminishing it's distinctiveness. As a matter of self preservation it becomes more exclusive, snobbish. A hippie that came into money wouldn't suddenly go out and start buying nice clothes and fancy cars - their group would look down on them for their consumerism and displays of wealth - it's a reflection of values. The hipster thing is getting pretty long in the tooth (I remember bitching about hipsters over 10 years ago!) and it's now completely co-opted by corporate interests hawking their mass produced and overpriced 'bespoke' goods. What started as cheap and unpopular has become expensive and snobbish. So, no, I don't see anything particularly unique about millennial hipsters.   

If you want a lesson in social hilarity, take a look at Woodstock, NY. At the time of the big music festival it was an extreme conservative bastion, however since then the locals realized they could make more money off tourism than they could off reactionary politics. So now it's wall-to-wall hemp, head shops, candles, little cafes where people can hang out and discuss Marx, and not a commercial establishment in sight. They're still a magnet for the people wanting to relive the version of the 1970's they remember, kind of like a tie-dyed version of the Society for Creative Anachronism.

The hippies that got money went to Taos, NM and Sedona, AZ.

We passed through Sedona over the summer. Beautiful place, but yeah, definitely moneyed hippies/boho-chic clique.

I live in the Santa Cruz area where you can watch the wealthy hippies age in place. Many bought homes in the 70s and early 80s before housing prices went crazy. Because of Prop 13 most are paying almost zero property taxes for homes worth well north of $1 million (like in the $500/year range). Furthermore, because of Props 58 and 193, inherited homes usually keep their Prop 13 tax basis so future generations also pay nearly nothing in property taxes. People in progressive California love to complain about the rich not paying their fair share, or reductions in the estate tax (to be clear, I think the estate tax is a good thing), but mum's the word on those property tax advantages worth hundreds of thousands of dollars.

partgypsy

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Re: One possible route to never-retirement -- restaurant ruined life
« Reply #71 on: December 05, 2017, 07:50:00 AM »
I didn't read the article, but my Dad (and uncle) was in the restaurant business, so all of us kids had to work at the restaurant when we were in Jr and HS. That was enough that it was far easier to earn a living by going to college and grad school. Getting a PhD and white collar job is a cake walk in comparison, even though up until the last 10 years my work weeks were > 40 hour work weeks. That said, if you can do it successfully, you can make a lot of money. But you also have to enjoy 7 day work weeks, and working every holiday.
« Last Edit: December 05, 2017, 07:51:44 AM by partgypsy »

iris lily

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Re: One possible route to never-retirement -- restaurant ruined life
« Reply #72 on: December 06, 2017, 10:06:25 AM »
We have a big restaurant space a block from our house. I have seen at least 4 restaurants there, 3 of them by newbies. That last one was the biggest fail, the guy offered comfort food from all over the world, spelled the name of the place is a weird way  where no one could find it if looking on the web, and jired  people in trouble with the law to rehabilitate them. Pretty much the day it opened it was a failure but the food was ok. The service sucked. The menu was strange. Then the air c ditioning went out during hottest weather. That was his nail in the coffin.

Anyway, we see a LOT of failures in restaurant biz. Our friend had plans to open a soiffle restaurant. This was one of many of his plans such as writing comedy, running a furniture store, making jewelry. Yeah, completely impractical. He is actually married to a really good cook,I would go to her restaurant before his.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2017, 03:33:18 PM by iris lily »

Dabnasty

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Re: One possible route to never-retirement -- restaurant ruined life
« Reply #73 on: December 06, 2017, 12:14:11 PM »
We have a big restaurant space a block from our house. I have seen at least 4 restaurants there, 3 of them by newbies. That last one was the biggest fail, the guy offered comfort food from all over the world, spelled the name of the place is a weird way  where no one could find it if looking on the web, and the people in trouble with the law to rehabilitate them. Pretty much the day it opened it was a failure but the food was ok. The service sucked. The menu was strange. Then the air c ditioning went out during hottest weather. That was his nail in the coffin.

Anyway, we see a LOT of failures in restaurant biz. Our friend had plans to open a soiffle restaurant. This was one of many if his plans such as writing comedy, running a furniture store, making jewelry. Yeah, completely impreactical. He is actually married to a really good cook,I would go to her restaurant before his.

An amateur opening a soufflé restaurant? That would fall flat for sure.

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Re: One possible route to never-retirement -- restaurant ruined life
« Reply #74 on: December 06, 2017, 01:23:18 PM »

My grandmother worked for 20 years in a candy factory, literally straightening candy bars on a conveyer belt 8hrs/day, and to her it was "the best job she ever had" because it was airconditioned and she got to sit, and it was consistent work that provided for her family (She was an Okei who lost everything in the dust bowl and moved to CA and then worked in the Oakland shipyard). For most people work is about making a living - not about getting rich, or fulfillment, just making ends meet. I have nothing against people who find fulfilling work, good for them! But I see a lot of people chasing phantoms, the elusive well paying passion, and doing so well beyond the point of being reasonable (like the story that prompted this thread).


Great point you made about your grandmother. Every once in a while I realize how many parts of my job I dislike and then I will realize how many people are working harder with more stress and for less and it helps me remember all the good things I like about my position.

I remember shortly after college reading an article that talked about "following your passion" and "finding meaning in your work".  And I'm an X-er.  Even back then, I thought it was BS, to some degree.

My dad had a job that he was good at.  In his day, you worked at a job and it paid the bills.  That's it.  It didn't "define you".  You went home and that was it for the day.  Life was lived outside of work.  What bugged me about being in the generation of being defined by your work is that it's still WORK.  And what if it sucks?  Or you get downsized?  There's a lot more pressure if you suddenly have to be passionate about everything that you do.

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Re: One possible route to never-retirement -- restaurant ruined life
« Reply #75 on: December 11, 2017, 11:11:39 AM »
We have a big restaurant space a block from our house. I have seen at least 4 restaurants there, 3 of them by newbies. That last one was the biggest fail, the guy offered comfort food from all over the world, spelled the name of the place is a weird way  where no one could find it if looking on the web, and the people in trouble with the law to rehabilitate them. Pretty much the day it opened it was a failure but the food was ok. The service sucked. The menu was strange. Then the air c ditioning went out during hottest weather. That was his nail in the coffin.

Anyway, we see a LOT of failures in restaurant biz. Our friend had plans to open a soiffle restaurant. This was one of many if his plans such as writing comedy, running a furniture store, making jewelry. Yeah, completely impreactical. He is actually married to a really good cook,I would go to her restaurant before his.

An amateur opening a soufflé restaurant? That would fall flat for sure.

I knew I would find my laugh for the day on this forum - thanks!

tooqk4u22

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Re: One possible route to never-retirement -- restaurant ruined life
« Reply #76 on: December 11, 2017, 03:41:17 PM »
A lot of haters and 20/20 hindsight going on in this thread.....good to know that most people can avoid an issue if they (a) know the issue and its answer ahead of time or (b) don't take any risk.

He had a dream, saw an opportunity, and failed....story can also go didn't take an opportunity so didn't fail (pathetic) or took an opportunity and succeeded. Stories like this should be commended and learned from.

There is greatness in opportunity can make you or break you, but having an opportunity what is great regardless of what you do. 

Besides not everyone can succeed....

https://www.thedailymeal.com/7-superstar-chefs-and-their-biggest-failures/101413

Another example as someone already pointed out....he must be dumb too!

This kind of reminds me of Mr. Money Mustache’s Big Mistake except MMM was much better prepared to weather a bad business venture.

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Re: One possible route to never-retirement -- restaurant ruined life
« Reply #77 on: December 11, 2017, 05:41:43 PM »
A lot of haters and 20/20 hindsight going on in this thread.....good to know that most people can avoid an issue if they (a) know the issue and its answer ahead of time or (b) don't take any risk.

He had a dream, saw an opportunity, and failed....story can also go didn't take an opportunity so didn't fail (pathetic) or took an opportunity and succeeded. Stories like this should be commended and learned from.


He's not being laughed at ("hated") because he took a risk and failed. he's being laughed at because he fucked it up through his own lack of research, foolishness, ignorance, and general dumbassery. Every time something happened that he could have learned from, he ignored the obvious lesson or acted like he didn't need to know.

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Re: One possible route to never-retirement -- restaurant ruined life
« Reply #78 on: December 11, 2017, 10:41:32 PM »

What kind of hubris would allow someone with no restaurant experience whatsoever to attempt this? I spent four summers in college working back of the house at a very well managed resort restaurant. Fun, but crazy hard work. My mind had a hard time processing how dumb it would be to take something like this on after the experience of actually working at a restaurant.


It's amazing how many people have a dumba$$ dream of owning a restaurant. I've had multiple clients with zero restaurant experience who have told me that their dream is to run a restaurant or cafe in retirement - using their IRA funds to invest in it.

What could go wrong?

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Re: One possible route to never-retirement -- restaurant ruined life
« Reply #79 on: December 12, 2017, 01:06:39 PM »
I wonder how long before we see a thread titled something like this: "One possible route to never-retirement -- cryptocurrencies".

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Re: One possible route to never-retirement -- restaurant ruined life
« Reply #80 on: December 12, 2017, 01:30:30 PM »
There's a very painful difference between fantasy and reality, and we're seeing it all over this forum.

People also fantasize about the full-time RV life, a tiny house, animal rescue, career changes, extreme sports, a dozen children, adoption of a special-needs child, living in a commune, or in this case owning a restaurant. Fantasizing like that does no harm and it's definitely cheap and time effective. But getting there from a mainstream lifestyle requires irreversible lifestyle changes. It pays to look before we leap.

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Re: One possible route to never-retirement -- restaurant ruined life
« Reply #81 on: December 12, 2017, 01:53:30 PM »
As a host, one of my dinner party goals-- or social goals, really-- is to get people who wouldn't otherwise meet each other to cross paths and interact. Many continue a friendship independently of my involvement, but mostly I match people up when one of them needs information the other has.

I love this! How incredibly satisfying and joy-producing this must be.

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Re: One possible route to never-retirement -- restaurant ruined life
« Reply #82 on: December 12, 2017, 02:43:45 PM »
As a host, one of my dinner party goals-- or social goals, really-- is to get people who wouldn't otherwise meet each other to cross paths and interact. Many continue a friendship independently of my involvement, but mostly I match people up when one of them needs information the other has.

I love this! How incredibly satisfying and joy-producing this must be.

It is. Try it, you'll like it. All you need is a table and some food. Even more awesome is when dinner guests reciprocate and I get to meet some of the people in *their* networks. It's like social media but with food, and you get to meet the real individuals, not the versions of themselves they present online.

MgoSam

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Re: One possible route to never-retirement -- restaurant ruined life
« Reply #83 on: December 13, 2017, 12:45:24 PM »
Grim,

Agreed! I need to have more dinner parties, I find them way more satisfying than going out...especially if the host has a cute dog to play with.

Metta

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Re: One possible route to never-retirement -- restaurant ruined life
« Reply #84 on: December 13, 2017, 01:18:40 PM »
As a host, one of my dinner party goals-- or social goals, really-- is to get people who wouldn't otherwise meet each other to cross paths and interact. Many continue a friendship independently of my involvement, but mostly I match people up when one of them needs information the other has.

I love this! How incredibly satisfying and joy-producing this must be.

It is. Try it, you'll like it. All you need is a table and some food. Even more awesome is when dinner guests reciprocate and I get to meet some of the people in *their* networks. It's like social media but with food, and you get to meet the real individuals, not the versions of themselves they present online.

It sounds like you are running a salon. I host a lot of games and wine tastings and I usually make a dinner party to greet new faculty members in my husband's department that seem intriguing, but it has been a while since I hosted a dinner party whose only purpose was talk and put people together.

I haven't had much luck in being invited to other people's houses for dinner. They are much more likely to come to my house. (And I'm ok with that.)

foobar

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Re: One possible route to never-retirement -- restaurant ruined life
« Reply #85 on: December 13, 2017, 01:22:16 PM »

My grandmother worked for 20 years in a candy factory, literally straightening candy bars on a conveyer belt 8hrs/day, and to her it was "the best job she ever had" because it was airconditioned and she got to sit, and it was consistent work that provided for her family (She was an Okei who lost everything in the dust bowl and moved to CA and then worked in the Oakland shipyard). For most people work is about making a living - not about getting rich, or fulfillment, just making ends meet. I have nothing against people who find fulfilling work, good for them! But I see a lot of people chasing phantoms, the elusive well paying passion, and doing so well beyond the point of being reasonable (like the story that prompted this thread).


Great point you made about your grandmother. Every once in a while I realize how many parts of my job I dislike and then I will realize how many people are working harder with more stress and for less and it helps me remember all the good things I like about my position.

I remember shortly after college reading an article that talked about "following your passion" and "finding meaning in your work".  And I'm an X-er.  Even back then, I thought it was BS, to some degree.

My dad had a job that he was good at.  In his day, you worked at a job and it paid the bills.  That's it.  It didn't "define you".  You went home and that was it for the day.  Life was lived outside of work.  What bugged me about being in the generation of being defined by your work is that it's still WORK.  And what if it sucks?  Or you get downsized?  There's a lot more pressure if you suddenly have to be passionate about everything that you do.

Obviously you can't be stupid when pursuing your passion.  If you have zero experience in a field (and being able to cook has pretty much nothing to do with running a restaurant), starting a business is not a great idea. Dreams are easy. Coming up with an execution plan is hard. And very few plans where you start at the top work out well. This guy knew nothing about restaurants (i.e. cooking is the least important part of the business) and make pretty much every amateur mistake you can from being uncapitalized, picking a poor location, underpricing, and so on.

Or of course you can take the easy way and work at a job you hate and dream of the day you don't have to work.

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Re: One possible route to never-retirement -- restaurant ruined life
« Reply #86 on: December 13, 2017, 02:55:11 PM »
As a host, one of my dinner party goals-- or social goals, really-- is to get people who wouldn't otherwise meet each other to cross paths and interact. Many continue a friendship independently of my involvement, but mostly I match people up when one of them needs information the other has.

I love this! How incredibly satisfying and joy-producing this must be.

It is. Try it, you'll like it. All you need is a table and some food. Even more awesome is when dinner guests reciprocate and I get to meet some of the people in *their* networks. It's like social media but with food, and you get to meet the real individuals, not the versions of themselves they present online.

It sounds like you are running a salon. I host a lot of games and wine tastings and I usually make a dinner party to greet new faculty members in my husband's department that seem intriguing, but it has been a while since I hosted a dinner party whose only purpose was talk and put people together.

I haven't had much luck in being invited to other people's houses for dinner. They are much more likely to come to my house. (And I'm ok with that.)

A salon is different. I ran one for a while and did not find it satisfying compared to, say, a jam session. Dinner party hosting is what I find easiest and what produces the best return on invested time and resources.

The thing with a salon is that it's an unstructured evening: an open house with a guest list. People drop in, or not, as they like, and they fit it in around other commitments. So you serve drinks and maybe snacks, but not a scheduled meal. You need a critical mass of people in order to make it good because there need to be at least three conversations going at a time. That means nine to ten people because conversations generally require more than two, and people migrate. To make a salon effective with good cross-pollination of ideas requires regular repetition: you do it every Tuesday night, or whatever it's going to be. The problem is that people start to take it for granted.

A good dinner party can be had even with just four to six people and one conversation. The logistics are way easier. Getting the people is the hardest part. But people do make more of an effort for dinner than they do for other kinds of events.

tralfamadorian

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Re: One possible route to never-retirement -- restaurant ruined life
« Reply #87 on: December 13, 2017, 03:32:45 PM »

What kind of hubris would allow someone with no restaurant experience whatsoever to attempt this? I spent four summers in college working back of the house at a very well managed resort restaurant. Fun, but crazy hard work. My mind had a hard time processing how dumb it would be to take something like this on after the experience of actually working at a restaurant.


It's amazing how many people have a dumba$$ dream of owning a restaurant. I've had multiple clients with zero restaurant experience who have told me that their dream is to run a restaurant or cafe in retirement - using their IRA funds to invest in it.

What could go wrong?

Also wineries, breweries and artisanal micro-distillers. 

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Re: One possible route to never-retirement -- restaurant ruined life
« Reply #88 on: December 13, 2017, 04:09:05 PM »

What kind of hubris would allow someone with no restaurant experience whatsoever to attempt this? I spent four summers in college working back of the house at a very well managed resort restaurant. Fun, but crazy hard work. My mind had a hard time processing how dumb it would be to take something like this on after the experience of actually working at a restaurant.


It's amazing how many people have a dumba$$ dream of owning a restaurant. I've had multiple clients with zero restaurant experience who have told me that their dream is to run a restaurant or cafe in retirement - using their IRA funds to invest in it.

What could go wrong?

Also wineries, breweries and artisanal micro-distillers.

Or farms. Many things can go wrong. Idiots deciding to go "back to the land" and start a hobby farm, generally with cheap, outdated equipment they have no clue how to use, now cause about a quarter of the preventable farming accidents. Yet they are only a small proportion of farmers or farm workers; they're grossly outnumbered by professional farmers, and the equipment operators, migrants, and field hands employed in agribusiness.

Behold the evidence of carnage.

https://www.agweb.com/article/rise-of-hobby-farms-means-risk-to-untrained-workers-apnews/

People are actually dying from this.

tralfamadorian

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Re: One possible route to never-retirement -- restaurant ruined life
« Reply #89 on: December 13, 2017, 08:15:45 PM »
Or farms. Many things can go wrong. Idiots deciding to go "back to the land" and start a hobby farm, generally with cheap, outdated equipment they have no clue how to use, now cause about a quarter of the preventable farming accidents. Yet they are only a small proportion of farmers or farm workers; they're grossly outnumbered by professional farmers, and the equipment operators, migrants, and field hands employed in agribusiness.

Behold the evidence of carnage.

https://www.agweb.com/article/rise-of-hobby-farms-means-risk-to-untrained-workers-apnews/

People are actually dying from this.

True- tractors are so dangerous. An acquaintance died this year in exactly the situation of the first person mentioned in the article. A tractor was torqued over by a log, which then crushed his leg. He bled to death before anyone found him.

FINate

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Re: One possible route to never-retirement -- restaurant ruined life
« Reply #90 on: December 14, 2017, 09:53:36 AM »
Or farms. Many things can go wrong. Idiots deciding to go "back to the land" and start a hobby farm, generally with cheap, outdated equipment they have no clue how to use, now cause about a quarter of the preventable farming accidents. Yet they are only a small proportion of farmers or farm workers; they're grossly outnumbered by professional farmers, and the equipment operators, migrants, and field hands employed in agribusiness.

Behold the evidence of carnage.

https://www.agweb.com/article/rise-of-hobby-farms-means-risk-to-untrained-workers-apnews/

People are actually dying from this.

True- tractors are so dangerous. An acquaintance died this year in exactly the situation of the first person mentioned in the article. A tractor was torqued over by a log, which then crushed his leg. He bled to death before anyone found him.

I have mixed opinion about this.

The article mentions 30 deaths over a three year period in Indiana, but no denominator is given (later 813,000 small farms nationwide, but nothing for Indiana specifically). So it's difficult to evaluate the risks involved. Ideally they would provide stats per hour worked, per worker, per acre, etc. How does it compare to operating chainsaws, 4-wheelers, driving, or any number of other risks? I just can't tell.

No doubt that untrained folks operating older equipment w/o modern safety features is higher risk. My guess is that white collar workers (I'm one) underestimate the dangers, difficulty, physicality, and skill/knowledge involved in farming and other blue collar work. So hobby farms start with no concept of what's really involved (and how expensive modern equipment is), they run low on funds, then figure they can get by with a tracker from the 1960s. Besides, oldschool stuff is cool, looks great on Instagram. Sounds like a recipe for disaster, if not physically then at least financially. If you've ever watched the show Homestead Rescue then you've probably seen this pattern in quasi real life (it's a TV show, but real people and real situations AFAIK). People, mostly urban/suburban with no farming or rural experience, who've quit their office jobs to start homesteads that are now failing. Most seem totally caught off guard by how much work and skill it requires. My guess is that people fantasize about a simpler time on bucolic farms that never really existed. Farm life has always been difficult, and unpredictable, and dangerous. That's the sense I get from history at least.

So yeah, I can see how this is a problem, just no idea how much of a problem it is, or how much the large agribusiness just doesn't like amateurs getting into their turf.

TempusFugit

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Re: One possible route to never-retirement -- restaurant ruined life
« Reply #91 on: December 17, 2017, 01:01:07 PM »
Or farms. Many things can go wrong. Idiots deciding to go "back to the land" and start a hobby farm, generally with cheap, outdated equipment they have no clue how to use, now cause about a quarter of the preventable farming accidents. Yet they are only a small proportion of farmers or farm workers; they're grossly outnumbered by professional farmers, and the equipment operators, migrants, and field hands employed in agribusiness.

Behold the evidence of carnage.

https://www.agweb.com/article/rise-of-hobby-farms-means-risk-to-untrained-workers-apnews/

People are actually dying from this.

True- tractors are so dangerous. An acquaintance died this year in exactly the situation of the first person mentioned in the article. A tractor was torqued over by a log, which then crushed his leg. He bled to death before anyone found him.

I have mixed opinion about this.

The article mentions 30 deaths over a three year period in Indiana, but no denominator is given (later 813,000 small farms nationwide, but nothing for Indiana specifically). So it's difficult to evaluate the risks involved. Ideally they would provide stats per hour worked, per worker, per acre, etc. How does it compare to operating chainsaws, 4-wheelers, driving, or any number of other risks? I just can't tell.

No doubt that untrained folks operating older equipment w/o modern safety features is higher risk. My guess is that white collar workers (I'm one) underestimate the dangers, difficulty, physicality, and skill/knowledge involved in farming and other blue collar work. So hobby farms start with no concept of what's really involved (and how expensive modern equipment is), they run low on funds, then figure they can get by with a tracker from the 1960s. Besides, oldschool stuff is cool, looks great on Instagram. Sounds like a recipe for disaster, if not physically then at least financially. If you've ever watched the show Homestead Rescue then you've probably seen this pattern in quasi real life (it's a TV show, but real people and real situations AFAIK). People, mostly urban/suburban with no farming or rural experience, who've quit their office jobs to start homesteads that are now failing. Most seem totally caught off guard by how much work and skill it requires. My guess is that people fantasize about a simpler time on bucolic farms that never really existed. Farm life has always been difficult, and unpredictable, and dangerous. That's the sense I get from history at least.

So yeah, I can see how this is a problem, just no idea how much of a problem it is, or how much the large agribusiness just doesn't like amateurs getting into their turf.


When I was a kid, my parents bought a hobby farm.  My dad had a full time job and made good money, but evidently had always wanted to have a small farm.  So while both he and my mom kept their day jobs, we also had a 30-something acre farm with cows, chickens, pigs (briefly), a bitchy pony (briefly), and goats.    Nostalgia being what it is, I have mostly positive memories from that time, since it happened at just the right time in a boy's age that exploring the woods and having free range of the land was an exciting adventure.   

I don't recall any particularly dangerous incidents involving the old tractor, other than the fact that they let me drive it sometimes (I was 10-13 during this period). 

I do recall how stressful the 'hobby' became as interest rates rose and started making the financial burden too great to sustain.  This was in the Volcker years of 1980-83 when variable mortgage rates got up to 19% or so.   My dad bought a share of a different business on another city and it took almost 2 years to sell the farm and be shed of all that responsibility.

It was (is) a beautiful piece of land and I still fantasize about one day being rich enough to go back and reclaim it.  I never will, of course, but that's beside the point.  I just looked it up on zillow and its 'zestimate' is $1M. So, no, not likely.    If I recall correctly, my folks sold it for about 200K in 1984. 

AnnaGrowsAMustache

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Re: One possible route to never-retirement -- restaurant ruined life
« Reply #92 on: December 17, 2017, 02:51:26 PM »
Regardless of what the dream is, hobby farm, restaurant, whatever, the trick is to fit it into your existing life. I'd love a little farm. Instead, I have a couple of backyard chickens, I'm doing a night course on how to make cheese with ordinary cow's milk from the supermarket, and I can fruit and veges when they're just about giving them away at the height of the season (because I'm a bit shit at growing things). None of these things has disrupted my life or finances, but I still get to have a bit of the lifestyle.

MgoSam

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Re: One possible route to never-retirement -- restaurant ruined life
« Reply #93 on: December 17, 2017, 07:17:22 PM »
Regardless of what the dream is, hobby farm, restaurant, whatever, the trick is to fit it into your existing life. I'd love a little farm. Instead, I have a couple of backyard chickens, I'm doing a night course on how to make cheese with ordinary cow's milk from the supermarket, and I can fruit and veges when they're just about giving them away at the height of the season (because I'm a bit shit at growing things). None of these things has disrupted my life or finances, but I still get to have a bit of the lifestyle.

That's awesome! Way to pick a desire that leads to a much healthier lifestyle. I really should buy tomatoes when they are in season to can them as I go through a decent amount of them. Would love to learn about the cheeses you are making.

AnnaGrowsAMustache

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Re: One possible route to never-retirement -- restaurant ruined life
« Reply #94 on: December 18, 2017, 05:19:49 AM »
Regardless of what the dream is, hobby farm, restaurant, whatever, the trick is to fit it into your existing life. I'd love a little farm. Instead, I have a couple of backyard chickens, I'm doing a night course on how to make cheese with ordinary cow's milk from the supermarket, and I can fruit and veges when they're just about giving them away at the height of the season (because I'm a bit shit at growing things). None of these things has disrupted my life or finances, but I still get to have a bit of the lifestyle.

That's awesome! Way to pick a desire that leads to a much healthier lifestyle. I really should buy tomatoes when they are in season to can them as I go through a decent amount of them. Would love to learn about the cheeses you are making.

It's quite fun having the produce in jars in winter when things are so expensive. Even just freezing at the height of the season is a huge money saver. Some things are very seasonal here in NZ - capsicum goes from $4 a kilo in summer to $4 each in winter! And I make a lot of capsicum-requiring recipes. I generally make a few dozen jars of chili and coriander salsa in summer also.

I've only just started the cheese making. We're doing ricotta, feta and camembert, which I think represent various stages of the whole process. I know I'd use feta a lot.

The chickens have been the most homesteady thing, though. They're pretty spoiled for livestock! And I get a dozen eggs a week from the two little feather butts.

EricL

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Re: One possible route to never-retirement -- restaurant ruined life
« Reply #95 on: December 20, 2017, 04:05:50 AM »
A lot of haters and 20/20 hindsight going on in this thread.....good to know that most people can avoid an issue if they (a) know the issue and its answer ahead of time or (b) don't take any risk.

He had a dream, saw an opportunity, and failed....story can also go didn't take an opportunity so didn't fail (pathetic) or took an opportunity and succeeded. Stories like this should be commended and learned from.

There is greatness in opportunity can make you or break you, but having an opportunity what is great regardless of what you do. 

Besides not everyone can succeed....

https://www.thedailymeal.com/7-superstar-chefs-and-their-biggest-failures/101413

Another example as someone already pointed out....he must be dumb too!

This kind of reminds me of Mr. Money Mustache’s Big Mistake except MMM was much better prepared to weather a bad business venture.

Nobody here has anything against dreamers or big thinkers.  We've all made some mistakes trying to make a buck or fulfill a dream or both.  Often big ones.  But damn.  A restaurant with no prior restaurant experience? 

Take a look at the story link you posted.  The key story component is the word "chef".  I.e., a guy or gal professionally trained to prepare and cook food.  In none of those 7 stories is there one for "cubicle monkey." A chef makes a calculated risk based on his training to open his own restaurant.  Their failure can mean lessons learned to reach future success.  A cubicle monkey opening a restaurant makes a leap of faith - under an oncoming bus. 

Sid Hoffman

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Re: One possible route to never-retirement -- restaurant ruined life
« Reply #96 on: December 23, 2017, 10:28:14 AM »
I have mixed opinion about this.

The article mentions 30 deaths over a three year period in Indiana, but no denominator is given (later 813,000 small farms nationwide, but nothing for Indiana specifically). So it's difficult to evaluate the risks involved. Ideally they would provide stats per hour worked, per worker, per acre, etc. How does it compare to operating chainsaws, 4-wheelers, driving, or any number of other risks? I just can't tell.

Not sure either, but for comparison, from 2014 - 2016, Indiana had 2388 traffic deaths.  One could conclude that about 80x as many people died driving to/from conventional jobs than died working a home farm.  It would be a likely false conclusion in may ways, but as you said, without a denominator of some kind it's actually very difficult to declare that working a home farm is more dangerous than driving to/from a non-farm job.

bugbaby

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Re: One possible route to never-retirement -- restaurant ruined life
« Reply #97 on: December 24, 2017, 01:04:40 AM »



I do find the title "A Restaurant Ruined My Life" to be a bit telling of this guy's problem.  "I Ruined My Life with a Restaurant" would be much more accurate.

He hasn't learned any broader life lessons and seems introspective only at a shallow level.

I suspect a life pattern of doing ruinous or selfish things (maybe at a smaller scale) and when the fallout comes it's always another party's fault, bad luck, the system, life etc...  Feel awful for the family.



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SnackDog

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Re: One possible route to never-retirement -- restaurant ruined life
« Reply #98 on: December 25, 2017, 01:03:54 AM »
While learning he knows nothing about business, he missed a great business opportunity.  His adventure might have made a good reality TV show and earned him millions - enough to continue "playing" at the restaurant business.

I've had friends with careers in the high end restaurant business and the level of alcohol consumption is staggering.  A couple nights per week the staff would raid the bar after closing and just carry on all night.