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Around the Internet => Antimustachian Wall of Shame and Comedy => Topic started by: SnackDog on August 28, 2016, 07:55:28 AM

Title: OMY for clown car
Post by: SnackDog on August 28, 2016, 07:55:28 AM
"You used to think that it was so easy
You used to say that it was so easy
But you're trying, you're trying now
Another year and then you'd be happy
Just one more year and then you'd be happy
But you're crying, you're crying now"
Gerry Rafferty, Baker Street


A colleague of mine is in his mid fifties and ready to retire early. He has saved about $5MM and has two nearly paid for homes. I think he has 1-2 years mortgage left on one of them. He is proposing to work one more year in order to fund a clown car. He is a generally frugal guy who minimizes operating costs pretty well. However he says he has been a closet car nut for years and wants to splash out in his early retirement years. One more year will net him around $300k after taxes.

He is proposing to blow half ($150k) on a one year old Bentley (I think the model is Flying Spur or something; sounds like a spaghetti western to me). He says he will get one in a fun color (red, green or blue maybe) and drive the crap out of it. He wants to tear down dirt roads, take it tent camping, fast food drive thrus, etc.  Kind of funny. He will keep it until he is sick of it, then either trade it for something more sensible (maybe big Lexus) or donate it to charity if it lasts so long as to be fully depreciated.

I have warned him this is not a vey frugal choiceand he may regret it but he seems determined. I suggested he keep his Toyota and donate the cash to charity but he didn't seem so excited.  I guess he can afford it.

What do you reckon?
Title: Re: OMY for clown car
Post by: yourusernamehere on August 28, 2016, 08:39:40 AM
I reckon he could rent one for a week and be bored by the end.
Title: Re: OMY for clown car
Post by: horsepoor on August 28, 2016, 08:42:53 AM
It actually sounds like he can afford it and has thought it through pretty thoroughly.  Not what I'd want to spend my money on, but I might do OMY to buy a really nice horse and new trailer to last me through the active years of my retirement.
Title: Re: OMY for clown car
Post by: Nederstash on August 28, 2016, 09:08:08 AM
He saved 5 million... he can blow money on cars or whatever the hell he likes. He's not going into debt, not teetering on the edge of disaster, not hurting anyone with this choice. I don't think he should be ridiculed, so let's not be too judgmental.
Title: Re: OMY for clown car
Post by: snacky on August 28, 2016, 09:12:34 AM
Why the hell not? There's neither shame nor comedy in someone carefully thinking through their priorities and working to afford something they love. Good for him.
Title: Re: OMY for clown car
Post by: SeaEhm on August 28, 2016, 09:49:12 AM
(http://i.imgur.com/SsLkoMZ.gif)
Title: Re: OMY for clown car
Post by: MilesTeg on August 28, 2016, 10:02:49 AM
"You used to think that it was so easy
You used to say that it was so easy
But you're trying, you're trying now
Another year and then you'd be happy
Just one more year and then you'd be happy
But you're crying, you're crying now"
Gerry Rafferty, Baker Street


A colleague of mine is in his mid fifties and ready to retire early. He has saved about $5MM and has two nearly paid for homes. I think he has 1-2 years mortgage left on one of them. He is proposing to work one more year in order to fund a clown car. He is a generally frugal guy who minimizes operating costs pretty well. However he says he has been a closet car nut for years and wants to splash out in his early retirement years. One more year will net him around $300k after taxes.

He is proposing to blow half ($150k) on a one year old Bentley (I think the model is Flying Spur or something; sounds like a spaghetti western to me). He says he will get one in a fun color (red, green or blue maybe) and drive the crap out of it. He wants to tear down dirt roads, take it tent camping, fast food drive thrus, etc.  Kind of funny. He will keep it until he is sick of it, then either trade it for something more sensible (maybe big Lexus) or donate it to charity if it lasts so long as to be fully depreciated.

I have warned him this is not a vey frugal choiceand he may regret it but he seems determined. I suggested he keep his Toyota and donate the cash to charity but he didn't seem so excited.  I guess he can afford it.

What do you reckon?

The guy has 5 million and all the other financials you talk about and you are fussing him over buying an expensive car?

If you've made good decisions and have a fantastic financial position like this guy, it's not some horrible sin to enjoy a little of it. You can't take it with you, and your financial net worth doesn't equate to your net worth as a human being.

The group think here sometimes gets tedious.
Title: Re: OMY for clown car
Post by: Metric Mouse on August 28, 2016, 11:12:11 AM
Why the hell not? There's neither shame nor comedy in someone carefully thinking through their priorities and working to afford something they love. Good for him.

Great point. Spend consciously on experiences that bring joy.
Title: Re: OMY for clown car
Post by: SnackDog on August 29, 2016, 06:40:38 AM
Good input.

My issues are -

1) if he has only $5MM saved, he will have to live on say 3.5% of that as he is retiring early.  $175K/yr is maybe $130K/yr after tax.  I  think we all probably know families spending $130K per year and they are not purchasing $150,000 vehicles to drive.  My own guidance for vehicle capex is maximum 5% of net income - in his case $6500/yr.

2) Bentleys are notoriously unreliable, so the joy factor may turn into the agony factor quickly, especially if he abuses the car.

3) I'm always a bit nervous about litigious Americans and a flashy car can attract the wrong type of behavior in a fender bender or, heaven forbid, major accident.

But, the way he lays it out as one more year for a frivilous pursuit of joy, he can afford it and has worked the numbers.  I hope he gets a wild color, haha.

Title: Re: OMY for clown car
Post by: MilesTeg on August 29, 2016, 09:29:14 AM
Good input.

My issues are -

1) if he has only $5MM saved, he will have to live on say 3.5% of that as he is retiring early.  $175K/yr is maybe $130K/yr after tax.  I  think we all probably know families spending $130K per year and they are not purchasing $150,000 vehicles to drive.  My own guidance for vehicle capex is maximum 5% of net income - in his case $6500/yr.

I'm not sure you grasp just how much money $5 million is, or how much $175k gross a year is.

Quote
3) I'm always a bit nervous about litigious Americans and a flashy car can attract the wrong type of behavior in a fender bender or, heaven forbid, major accident.

Umbrella Insurance. Someone with that much net worth should have it regardless of what kind of car they drive.

Quote
But, the way he lays it out as one more year for a frivilous pursuit of joy, he can afford it and has worked the numbers.  I hope he gets a wild color, haha.

He could afford to buy 20 or 30 of the damn things and still retire extremely comfortably.... Even when you don't factor in his continued rental income.

Again, you can't take it with you....
Title: Re: OMY for clown car
Post by: Chris22 on August 29, 2016, 09:37:00 AM
The group think here sometimes gets tedious.

If he was planning to spend the same money on biking across country, donating it to the library, or "slow traveling" around somewhere like a native, this group would be fighting to stand in line to pat him on the back.  But "OMG Cars!"
Title: Re: OMY for clown car
Post by: TheGrimSqueaker on August 29, 2016, 09:48:29 AM
Based on the numbers, it doesn't look to me like the car will be a serious threat to this guy's financial independence, particularly if he's got a frugal lifestyle overall and $5MM saved up. It's one car, not five or six, and he's got more than enough cash flow to cover it even with the secondary spending.

It would be a different story if he had only half a million saved, a hefty new mortgage, and an over-leveraged lifestyle. But that's not his situation.
Title: Re: OMY for clown car
Post by: GuitarStv on August 29, 2016, 09:49:51 AM
The group think here sometimes gets tedious.

If he was planning to spend the same money on biking across country, donating it to the library, or "slow traveling" around somewhere like a native, this group would be fighting to stand in line to pat him on the back.  But "OMG Cars!"

Is it even possible to spend 150k cycling across the country?  If it took a year to do you could buy a new pretty awesome carbon fiber race bike each month (5k per bike = 60k), stay in a fancy hotel room every night (average 100$ per stay = 36k), exclusively eat out for every meal of your bike tour (average 100$ each meal = 36K), and then have enough left over at the end (17k) to buy a new car and the gas needed to drive home with.  That's an ass-ton of money to blow on a luxury vehicle.

Donating money to a public service like a library benefits everyone.  Driving an expensive luxury car actually does harm to people (partly through the waste to create the car, partly through the pollution created over the lifespan of the car).  Do you really equate these two ideas in your head somehow?
Title: Re: OMY for clown car
Post by: Chris22 on August 29, 2016, 09:56:13 AM
The group think here sometimes gets tedious.

If he was planning to spend the same money on biking across country, donating it to the library, or "slow traveling" around somewhere like a native, this group would be fighting to stand in line to pat him on the back.  But "OMG Cars!"

Is it even possible to spend 150k cycling across the country?  If it took a year to do you could buy a new pretty awesome carbon fiber race bike each month (5k per bike = 60k), stay in a fancy hotel room every night (average 100$ per stay = 36k), exclusively eat out for every meal of your bike tour (average 100$ each meal = 36K), and then have enough left over at the end (17k) to buy a new car and the gas needed to drive home with.  That's an ass-ton of money to blow on a luxury vehicle.

Who the fuck knows or cares?  You get my point.  Which is that....

Quote
Donating money to a public service like a library benefits everyone.  Driving an expensive luxury car actually does harm to people (partly through the waste to create the car, partly through the pollution created over the lifespan of the car).  Do you really equate these two ideas in your head somehow?

...MMMers like to use "frugality" as an excuse to pick and chose amongst behaviors they like and don't like, even when the "frugality" part is spurious.  You guys hate fancy cars, just be intellectually honest and say that, don't pretend this guy can't or shouldn't afford it.
Title: Re: OMY for clown car
Post by: GuitarStv on August 29, 2016, 10:59:07 AM
...MMMers like to use "frugality" as an excuse to pick and chose amongst behaviors they like and don't like, even when the "frugality" part is spurious.  You guys hate fancy cars, just be intellectually honest and say that, don't pretend this guy can't or shouldn't afford it.

Being able to afford something isn't really the point of this website though.  "Can I afford it?" is just a simple sanity test . . . certainly not an important question when considering a purchase.  If the answer to "Can I afford it?" is no, you shouldn't even be considering the purchase.

http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2012/09/18/is-it-convenient-would-i-enjoy-it-wrong-question/ (http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2012/09/18/is-it-convenient-would-i-enjoy-it-wrong-question/)
Title: Re: OMY for clown car
Post by: MilesTeg on August 29, 2016, 11:22:03 AM
...MMMers like to use "frugality" as an excuse to pick and chose amongst behaviors they like and don't like, even when the "frugality" part is spurious.  You guys hate fancy cars, just be intellectually honest and say that, don't pretend this guy can't or shouldn't afford it.

Being able to afford something isn't really the point of this website though.  "Can I afford it?" is just a simple sanity test . . . certainly not an important question when considering a purchase.  If the answer to "Can I afford it?" is no, you shouldn't even be considering the purchase.

http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2012/09/18/is-it-convenient-would-i-enjoy-it-wrong-question/ (http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2012/09/18/is-it-convenient-would-i-enjoy-it-wrong-question/)

We know MMM likes to take ridiculous positions like needing "infinite money" to purchase anything but the bare necessities of life, but just because MMM takes his own advice to a ridiculous and illogical extreme does not mean everyone does or has to act like they do when having discussions.
Title: Re: OMY for clown car
Post by: GuitarStv on August 29, 2016, 11:33:48 AM
...MMMers like to use "frugality" as an excuse to pick and chose amongst behaviors they like and don't like, even when the "frugality" part is spurious.  You guys hate fancy cars, just be intellectually honest and say that, don't pretend this guy can't or shouldn't afford it.

Being able to afford something isn't really the point of this website though.  "Can I afford it?" is just a simple sanity test . . . certainly not an important question when considering a purchase.  If the answer to "Can I afford it?" is no, you shouldn't even be considering the purchase.

http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2012/09/18/is-it-convenient-would-i-enjoy-it-wrong-question/ (http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2012/09/18/is-it-convenient-would-i-enjoy-it-wrong-question/)

We know MMM likes to take ridiculous positions like needing "infinite money" to purchase anything but the bare necessities of life, but just because MMM takes his own advice to a ridiculous and illogical extreme does not mean everyone does or has to act like they do when having discussions.

What ridiculous or illogical extreme does MMM take things to?  He has a very nice house, hobbies that occupy his time, friends, great meals, all the time he wants to do the things he wants, a family, he's active in his community . . . If the goal of life is happiness, MMM seems to proving that spending a lot of money isn't necessary.  Is that extreme or illogical?
Title: Re: OMY for clown car
Post by: onehair on August 29, 2016, 11:35:12 AM
Since it is OPM (the best kind) and it won't affect our FIRE plans I say let him buy the thing...He may find that having is not the same as wanting to quote Spock...
Title: Re: OMY for clown car
Post by: MilesTeg on August 29, 2016, 11:49:06 AM
...MMMers like to use "frugality" as an excuse to pick and chose amongst behaviors they like and don't like, even when the "frugality" part is spurious.  You guys hate fancy cars, just be intellectually honest and say that, don't pretend this guy can't or shouldn't afford it.

Being able to afford something isn't really the point of this website though.  "Can I afford it?" is just a simple sanity test . . . certainly not an important question when considering a purchase.  If the answer to "Can I afford it?" is no, you shouldn't even be considering the purchase.

http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2012/09/18/is-it-convenient-would-i-enjoy-it-wrong-question/ (http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2012/09/18/is-it-convenient-would-i-enjoy-it-wrong-question/)

We know MMM likes to take ridiculous positions like needing "infinite money" to purchase anything but the bare necessities of life, but just because MMM takes his own advice to a ridiculous and illogical extreme does not mean everyone does or has to act like they do when having discussions.

What ridiculous or illogical extreme does MMM take things to?  He has a very nice house, hobbies that occupy his time, friends, great meals, all the time he wants to do the things he wants, a family, he's active in his community . . . If the goal of life is happiness, MMM seems to proving that spending a lot of money isn't necessary.  Is that extreme or illogical?

His biggest issue (which may just be an issue for his most devout followers) is the assumption that what makes him happy makes everyone happy. MMM thrives on what he does -- and good for him. Not everyone is like him, and not everyone derives happiness from the same things he does.
Different strokes for different folks, ya know?

And frankly, even MMM admits that he derives happiness from many purchases and activities that are not frugal. He likes fancy bikes, fancy organic foods, fancy houses, expensive foreign trips, etc. As Chris22 mentioned, lots of folks around here use "frugality" as an excuse to attempt to shame others for their choices.

MMM gives extremely good practical financial advice, but is extremely hypocritical when he starts in on the subjective parts of this "philosophy".

This thread is a perfect example. OP and others are trying to shame the person for making a purchase they don't agree with and not out of any legitimate concern for the person's financial status.
Title: Re: OMY for clown car
Post by: TheGrimSqueaker on August 29, 2016, 12:19:40 PM
I'm seldom shy about mocking stupid behavior at length. But I just don't see anything to mock here except maybe our collective knee-jerk reaction to this guy's Bentley.

The entire point of frugality is to set aside money and resources for something really important, is it not? For most of us here, that "something important" is an early retirement. We do the FI part in order to RE.

But what about people who have some other reason to get FI? The guy buying the Bentley is already a badass with $5 million plus other assets, and not much debt. He's got nothing to prove to anyone, particularly not most of us who have substantially fewer assets. He's voluntarily deciding to work an extra year for an indulgence he wants very, very much... so what?

If we look closely at ourselves, we'll see that most of us have an indulgence of some kind that we spend money, time, or resources on. Maybe it's travel, charity, concerts, or a hobby of some kind. It's not something we allow to break the bank, and it's also not a justification to spend on every random whim, but in the context of a frugal overall lifestyle, it really is acceptable to have an affordable indulgence now and then. Indulgence doesn't become stupidity unless it's allowed to continue to the point where a person's financial stability or future is seriously compromised in order to satisfy a present whim.

What is an early retirement, if not an affordable indulgence to someone who is financially independent?

1) Bentley Guy has paid his dues by racking up the $5 million plus other assets before buying the indulgence. He's not in debt up to the eyeballs, he's not over-leveraged, and he's enjoying the financial stability that comes in part from past good decision making.

2) Bentley Guy has a stable financial position overall, and the purchase is being made in the context of a conservative, frugal lifestyle (not as one more doodad in a long series of expensive whims).

3) The car, while too expensive for most of us, is affordable given Bentley Guy's overall financial position. He is enough of a badass to afford one of the traditional symbols of badassity.

4) Bentley Guy has done an informed cost/benefit analysis and determined that, TO HIM, the car is worth an extra year of work. This isn't an abstract postpone-retirement-down-the-road decision, but a very real decision he's making right now.

5) The purchase just isn't putting Bentley guy at risk. In the worst case scenario, if he lost his job today, he would still be able to continue at his present standard of living or close to it, even with the car.

If any of the above points wasn't true-- if Bentley Guy had a lot of debt, or didn't have his retirement set up, or wasn't working an extra year to pay for it, or was making a whole slew of other purchases without regard to their impact, or otherwise couldn't actually afford the car-- then I think we'd have something to mock.
Title: Re: OMY for clown car
Post by: Digital Dogma on August 29, 2016, 12:23:55 PM
Sounds like status seeking behavior, the car is not a form of transportation in that case, its a "lifestyle" proclamation to the rest of the world. He wants everyone around him to recognize that he has made it to a point in his life where he can blow cash out his tailpipe if he wants to.

I think thats what the french call nuveaux riche
Title: Re: OMY for clown car
Post by: MoneyCat on August 29, 2016, 12:27:49 PM
If I had $5 million, I wouldn't really be concerned about the cost of a new car. More power to the guy. He's rich. He can do whatever he wants.
Title: Re: OMY for clown car
Post by: MilesTeg on August 29, 2016, 12:28:52 PM
Sounds like status seeking behavior, the car is not a form of transportation in that case, its a "lifestyle" proclamation to the rest of the world. He wants everyone around him to recognize that he has made it to a point in his life where he can blow cash out his tailpipe if he wants to.

I think thats what the french call nuveaux riche

Know another thing that is a status seeking lifestyle proclamation? Early Retirement.
Title: Re: OMY for clown car
Post by: MilesTeg on August 29, 2016, 12:41:39 PM
The original question really is just "Is it OK to work an extra 2000 hours, one year of your life to fund a vehicle purchase?" This is going to be a personal choice - what you value. Or at least, in this scenario, it's an informed, conscious choice. (Also, it's not analogous to OMY out of fear of financial failure.)

My very rough plan for many years in the future is "if, several years after I hit FIRE, I have more money than I needed after all, I'll blow some on a car my wife and I think would be fun to have around." I do not plan to work an extra year to make sure that happens. But that's my choice, my personal preference.

Thing is, he doesn't even have to work another year for it... With $5 million saved up he could fairly reliably net north of $150k a year in earnings off of that sum -- in perpetuity. Just by purchasing a dividend stock like Dupont, Coca-Cola, Colgate-Palmolive, etc. Add in rental income and SS, and he could get near $200k a year in gross earnings.

Now, if he really thinks he needs more than $200k a year to have a comfortable retirement, THAT might be worth some discussion...
Title: Re: OMY for clown car
Post by: Jrr85 on August 29, 2016, 12:44:21 PM
"You used to think that it was so easy
You used to say that it was so easy
But you're trying, you're trying now
Another year and then you'd be happy
Just one more year and then you'd be happy
But you're crying, you're crying now"
Gerry Rafferty, Baker Street


A colleague of mine is in his mid fifties and ready to retire early. He has saved about $5MM and has two nearly paid for homes. I think he has 1-2 years mortgage left on one of them. He is proposing to work one more year in order to fund a clown car. He is a generally frugal guy who minimizes operating costs pretty well. However he says he has been a closet car nut for years and wants to splash out in his early retirement years. One more year will net him around $300k after taxes.

He is proposing to blow half ($150k) on a one year old Bentley (I think the model is Flying Spur or something; sounds like a spaghetti western to me). He says he will get one in a fun color (red, green or blue maybe) and drive the crap out of it. He wants to tear down dirt roads, take it tent camping, fast food drive thrus, etc.  Kind of funny. He will keep it until he is sick of it, then either trade it for something more sensible (maybe big Lexus) or donate it to charity if it lasts so long as to be fully depreciated.

I have warned him this is not a vey frugal choiceand he may regret it but he seems determined. I suggested he keep his Toyota and donate the cash to charity but he didn't seem so excited.  I guess he can afford it.

What do you reckon?

The guy has 5 million and all the other financials you talk about and you are fussing him over buying an expensive car?

If you've made good decisions and have a fantastic financial position like this guy, it's not some horrible sin to enjoy a little of it. You can't take it with you, and your financial net worth doesn't equate to your net worth as a human being.

The group think here sometimes gets tedious.

I kind of come down on the opposite side and say that the "other financials" would make me counsel against it (assuming he actually solicited my opinion and I thought he really wanted an honest opinion, because otherwise it certainly doesn't raise to the level that even close friends should stick their nose in it). 

If he is clearing around $300k this year after taxes and he's in his mid 50's, $5M may not be that high of a networth.  Saving $90k a year for 25 years at 6% will get you roughly $5M.  SO depending on how long he's been making good money, having a $5M net worth may show that he has quite a high level of spending to keep up before throwing in a $150k car.  Even then it's not like he can't afford it, it's just that he apparently enjoys the finer things to get to that level of spending, so I'd want to think hard about whether this is really "the one" thing I want to spend money on or whether it's "one of the" things I want to spend money on. 

But it's hard to say without knowing what his spending is like now and how long he has been making really good money.  If $200k a year in investment returns is way more than enough to pay for his dream lifestyle, and he wants the car, he should knock himself out.
Title: Re: OMY for clown car
Post by: MilesTeg on August 29, 2016, 01:14:30 PM

I kind of come down on the opposite side and say that the "other financials" would make me counsel against it (assuming he actually solicited my opinion and I thought he really wanted an honest opinion, because otherwise it certainly doesn't raise to the level that even close friends should stick their nose in it). 

If he is clearing around $300k this year after taxes and he's in his mid 50's, $5M may not be that high of a networth.  Saving $90k a year for 25 years at 6% will get you roughly $5M.  SO depending on how long he's been making good money, having a $5M net worth may show that he has quite a high level of spending to keep up before throwing in a $150k car.  Even then it's not like he can't afford it, it's just that he apparently enjoys the finer things to get to that level of spending, so I'd want to think hard about whether this is really "the one" thing I want to spend money on or whether it's "one of the" things I want to spend money on. 

But it's hard to say without knowing what his spending is like now and how long he has been making really good money.  If $200k a year in investment returns is way more than enough to pay for his dream lifestyle, and he wants the car, he should knock himself out.

Any way you look at it, you have people arguing that a multi-millionaire can't afford a fancy car... It's obvious most are complaining because they have an issue with what he's buying and not on the financial merits of the decision. Even if he is a very high spender, we're talking about changing what he's spending money on, not about whether or not he's able to provide for himself for a long, comfortable retirement. It's fundamentally different from someone planning to retire with just barely enough retirement funding to make it by.
Title: Re: OMY for clown car
Post by: Apples on August 29, 2016, 01:31:00 PM
"You used to think that it was so easy
You used to say that it was so easy
But you're trying, you're trying now
Another year and then you'd be happy
Just one more year and then you'd be happy
But you're crying, you're crying now"
Gerry Rafferty, Baker Street


A colleague of mine is in his mid fifties and ready to retire early. He has saved about $5MM and has two nearly paid for homes. I think he has 1-2 years mortgage left on one of them. He is proposing to work one more year in order to fund a clown car. He is a generally frugal guy who minimizes operating costs pretty well. However he says he has been a closet car nut for years and wants to splash out in his early retirement years. One more year will net him around $300k after taxes.

He is proposing to blow half ($150k) on a one year old Bentley (I think the model is Flying Spur or something; sounds like a spaghetti western to me). He says he will get one in a fun color (red, green or blue maybe) and drive the crap out of it. He wants to tear down dirt roads, take it tent camping, fast food drive thrus, etc.  Kind of funny. He will keep it until he is sick of it, then either trade it for something more sensible (maybe big Lexus) or donate it to charity if it lasts so long as to be fully depreciated.

I have warned him this is not a vey frugal choiceand he may regret it but he seems determined. I suggested he keep his Toyota and donate the cash to charity but he didn't seem so excited.  I guess he can afford it.

What do you reckon?

The guy has 5 million and all the other financials you talk about and you are fussing him over buying an expensive car?

If you've made good decisions and have a fantastic financial position like this guy, it's not some horrible sin to enjoy a little of it. You can't take it with you, and your financial net worth doesn't equate to your net worth as a human being.

The group think here sometimes gets tedious.

I kind of come down on the opposite side and say that the "other financials" would make me counsel against it (assuming he actually solicited my opinion and I thought he really wanted an honest opinion, because otherwise it certainly doesn't raise to the level that even close friends should stick their nose in it). 

If he is clearing around $300k this year after taxes and he's in his mid 50's, $5M may not be that high of a networth.  Saving $90k a year for 25 years at 6% will get you roughly $5M.  SO depending on how long he's been making good money, having a $5M net worth may show that he has quite a high level of spending to keep up before throwing in a $150k car.  Even then it's not like he can't afford it, it's just that he apparently enjoys the finer things to get to that level of spending, so I'd want to think hard about whether this is really "the one" thing I want to spend money on or whether it's "one of the" things I want to spend money on. 

But it's hard to say without knowing what his spending is like now and how long he has been making really good money.  If $200k a year in investment returns is way more than enough to pay for his dream lifestyle, and he wants the car, he should knock himself out.

...but both of his mortgages are paid off or will shortly be paid off.  And we don't know where he lives, but if he also put two kids through college, lives in a decent house in a decent neighborhood, well it's possible that he actually lives much more within his means than it first appears.  In some areas of the country a mortgage would take up several thousand dollars per month for a regular size house, plus the second mortgage on the other house.  If those are gone, who know, maybe he's saving at least 50% or more without college costs.

Or you're right, and he can't really afford it because he spends $200k a year.
Title: Re: OMY for clown car
Post by: Metric Mouse on August 29, 2016, 01:40:49 PM
...MMMers like to use "frugality" as an excuse to pick and chose amongst behaviors they like and don't like, even when the "frugality" part is spurious.  You guys hate fancy cars, just be intellectually honest and say that, don't pretend this guy can't or shouldn't afford it.

Being able to afford something isn't really the point of this website though.  "Can I afford it?" is just a simple sanity test . . . certainly not an important question when considering a purchase.  If the answer to "Can I afford it?" is no, you shouldn't even be considering the purchase.

http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2012/09/18/is-it-convenient-would-i-enjoy-it-wrong-question/ (http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2012/09/18/is-it-convenient-would-i-enjoy-it-wrong-question/)

We know MMM likes to take ridiculous positions like needing "infinite money" to purchase anything but the bare necessities of life, but just because MMM takes his own advice to a ridiculous and illogical extreme does not mean everyone does or has to act like they do when having discussions.

What ridiculous or illogical extreme does MMM take things to? 

You mean besides flying to Ecuador and back every year while arguing that fossil fuels are ruining the planet?
Title: Re: OMY for clown car
Post by: GuitarStv on August 29, 2016, 01:49:24 PM
...MMMers like to use "frugality" as an excuse to pick and chose amongst behaviors they like and don't like, even when the "frugality" part is spurious.  You guys hate fancy cars, just be intellectually honest and say that, don't pretend this guy can't or shouldn't afford it.

Being able to afford something isn't really the point of this website though.  "Can I afford it?" is just a simple sanity test . . . certainly not an important question when considering a purchase.  If the answer to "Can I afford it?" is no, you shouldn't even be considering the purchase.

http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2012/09/18/is-it-convenient-would-i-enjoy-it-wrong-question/ (http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2012/09/18/is-it-convenient-would-i-enjoy-it-wrong-question/)

We know MMM likes to take ridiculous positions like needing "infinite money" to purchase anything but the bare necessities of life, but just because MMM takes his own advice to a ridiculous and illogical extreme does not mean everyone does or has to act like they do when having discussions.

What ridiculous or illogical extreme does MMM take things to? 

You mean besides flying to Ecuador and back every year while arguing that fossil fuels are ruining the planet?

Sure, that's a valid criticism.  It's something that goes against the general message of his blog, and is something I wish he didn't do.  It doesn't detract from the rest of the message of the blog, just shows that he's human and fucks up now and again too.
Title: Re: OMY for clown car
Post by: Metric Mouse on August 29, 2016, 01:58:23 PM
Well, if we can forgive MMM for his follies, then, perhaps, somehow, we can find the strength to forgive Snackdog's colleuge for theirs.  Any data on how a $150k car is worse for the environment and thus every living thing on the planet than a $4k car. I would guess any difference is negligible.
Title: Re: OMY for clown car
Post by: Jrr85 on August 29, 2016, 02:05:36 PM

I kind of come down on the opposite side and say that the "other financials" would make me counsel against it (assuming he actually solicited my opinion and I thought he really wanted an honest opinion, because otherwise it certainly doesn't raise to the level that even close friends should stick their nose in it). 

If he is clearing around $300k this year after taxes and he's in his mid 50's, $5M may not be that high of a networth.  Saving $90k a year for 25 years at 6% will get you roughly $5M.  SO depending on how long he's been making good money, having a $5M net worth may show that he has quite a high level of spending to keep up before throwing in a $150k car.  Even then it's not like he can't afford it, it's just that he apparently enjoys the finer things to get to that level of spending, so I'd want to think hard about whether this is really "the one" thing I want to spend money on or whether it's "one of the" things I want to spend money on. 

But it's hard to say without knowing what his spending is like now and how long he has been making really good money.  If $200k a year in investment returns is way more than enough to pay for his dream lifestyle, and he wants the car, he should knock himself out.

Any way you look at it, you have people arguing that a multi-millionaire can't afford a fancy car...

Well, I don't think anybody is really arguing that the multi-millionaire can't afford a fancy car.  I think I was the only one that even implied it might possibly cramp his lifestyle, and that was conditional on him having  very high annual spending.   


It's obvious most are complaining because they have an issue with what he's buying and not on the financial merits of the decision. Even if he is a very high spender, we're talking about changing what he's spending money on, not about whether or not he's able to provide for himself for a long, comfortable retirement. It's fundamentally different from someone planning to retire with just barely enough retirement funding to make it by.

I think some people are being judgmental about what he spends money on.  I think other people are, as you said, talking about changing what he spends the money on.  Considering that with the actual desire of wanting to change the Bentley buyer's spending is a little crazy; but thinking about it from what would maximize their happiness if they were in that position is possibly useful if they are still working out what they value, and at least not harmful if they are not coming from a place of envy or unwarranted judgment. 
Title: Re: OMY for clown car
Post by: daverobev on August 29, 2016, 02:12:07 PM
Well, if we can forgive MMM for his follies, then, perhaps, somehow, we can find the strength to forgive Snackdog's colleuge for theirs.  Any data on how a $150k car is worse for the environment and thus every living thing on the planet than a $4k car. I would guess any difference is negligible.

I bet a Bentley - any Bentley - has significantly more *mass* and significantly lower fuel efficiency than any $4k Corolla :P

The Bentley would've taken more energy to build, more expensive parts, more expensive oil even. Or just more oil!

But, sure, who cares. The OP's guy is rich, they can do what they want. We can all do what we want.

I was just having a discussion with my wife this morning about McDonalds recalling 33 million happy meal toys. What's sad is not that they are doing the recall; it's that 33m happy meal toys aren't even the total number of pointless plastic shite things McD's gives out a year. That's the problem. Not one guy buying a luxury car for shits and giggles.

We're all fucked/guilty/stupid. OP's guy is just going to have a little crazy fun (assuming they go through with tent camping out of it, ha!).
Title: Re: OMY for clown car
Post by: Digital Dogma on August 29, 2016, 02:16:00 PM
Any data on how a $150k car is worse for the environment and thus every living thing on the planet than a $4k car. I would guess any difference is negligible.
I can't say about this model, however other Bentley models have been shown to exceed regulatory emissions standards in some countries.

Quote
http://www.caradvice.com.au/467722/80-volkswagen-audi-bentley-models-banned-in-south-korea/
South Korean authorities have revoked the certification of, and recalled, 80 Volkswagen, Audi and Bentley models currently or previously on-sale due to falsified emissions and noise test data.

An executive of Audi Volkswagen South Korea has already been charged with falsifying 140 documents related to emissions and noise certification.

Title: Re: OMY for clown car
Post by: russianswinga on August 29, 2016, 02:33:58 PM
I get it. Dude loves his Bentley.

1. Buy a 2006 flying spur for 1/3 the price
https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/l-Used-2006-Bentley-Continental-Flying-Spur-c5280

2. Put this year's rims on it ($4-5K maybe?)

3. Put an updated car computer / GPS / bluetooth in it, high end - maybe another $1000?

4. Enjoy and put $200,000 in your pocket.

Thing is, "classic" cars like Bentleys generally age well and don't look dated 10 years on. Here's a 2006 interior. Still looks luxurious to me. Pass the grey poupon?

 (https://preview2.netcarshow.com/Mansory-Bentley_Continental_Flying_Spur-2006-1600-08.jpg)
Title: Re: OMY for clown car
Post by: MgoSam on August 29, 2016, 02:37:49 PM
I really don't see anything wrong with this. Now I would likely do something differently, but as you mentioned the guy has $5M and two paid-off houses (or nearly enough). He probably could buy the Bentley without needing to work, but oh well.

If I had $5M in the bank/Vanguard, I would be considering spending $80k on a Tesla Model S.
Title: Re: OMY for clown car
Post by: gimp on August 29, 2016, 02:53:13 PM
We love the forum members who retire and travel. Honestly, who cares? He probably enjoys his work and if he's a car guy, then car guy that shit up. He's set. Now he's just trading time for enjoyment in a very, very direct way.

But if I was him I wouldn't get the bentley. Unreliable.

I would even less get a 2006 bentley. At least a new one comes with a warranty for a few years. The old one will just eat your money.



If it was me, I'd get a new ferrari. Buy the biggest warranty I could. Then see how much Ferrari likes me after I test their warranty out. They offer a three year unlimited mile bumper to bumper warranty, and I believe up to 7 years of basic stuff and 12 years of powertrain if you elect to buy it. I would make it my full-time job to drive. I figure I could easily hit 100k miles a year just absolutely enjoying the car. See if they offer to buy the car back just to get rid of me when they see the odometer at 275k miles and still six months left in the warranty.
Title: Re: OMY for clown car
Post by: MilesTeg on August 29, 2016, 02:54:28 PM
We love the forum members who retire and travel. Honestly, who cares? He probably enjoys his work and if he's a car guy, then car guy that shit up. He's set. Now he's just trading time for enjoyment in a very, very direct way.

But if I was him I wouldn't get the bentley. Unreliable.

I would even less get a 2006 bentley. At least a new one comes with a warranty for a few years. The old one will just eat your money.



If it was me, I'd get a new ferrari. Buy the biggest warranty I could. Then see how much Ferrari likes me after I test their warranty out. They offer a three year unlimited mile bumper to bumper warranty, and I believe up to 7 years of basic stuff and 12 years of powertrain if you elect to buy it. I would make it my full-time job to drive. I figure I could easily hit 100k miles a year just absolutely enjoying the car. See if they offer to buy the car back just to get rid of me when they see the odometer at 275k miles and still six months left in the warranty.

They offer warranties that don't have a mileage cap? Wow.
Title: Re: OMY for clown car
Post by: russianswinga on August 29, 2016, 03:23:39 PM
Oh, oh, wait, I just found out why he wants this year's model :)

http://jalopnik.com/bentley-has-your-in-car-booze-situation-covered-three-d-1785907295
"Bentley Has Your In-Car Booze Situation Covered Three Different Ways"
Title: Re: OMY for clown car
Post by: Cycling Stache on August 29, 2016, 03:27:46 PM
Sounds like status seeking behavior, the car is not a form of transportation in that case, its a "lifestyle" proclamation to the rest of the world. He wants everyone around him to recognize that he has made it to a point in his life where he can blow cash out his tailpipe if he wants to.

I think thats what the french call nuveaux riche

This goes too far, because it misses the point of peak experiences.  Driving a fast car fast is unbelievably fun and exciting.  Doing it at the expense of working another year, not paying off debt, etc., may not be as good an idea, but the joy of driving itself is actually a true experience for many people.  Putting aside the environmental impact, there is no difference whatsoever between this and my buying a "race" bike so that I can go a little faster in my race group.  We both can afford it, and if it has no impact on our financials, so be it. 

What gets lost sometimes in this forum is discounting what other people's true "happiness" things are.  We presume that fancy dinners are not worth it, because most people don't actually gain much lasting enjoyment from them.  But there are some people who truly relish those experiences.  Fine.  I'm not one of them, but their wanting a fancy dinner is no different than my getting a better than baseline bike because I really enjoy riding a bike fast--it makes me truly happy.

If you ever go to an event where people are tracking their cars, you will meet some of the happiest, most content people on the planet.  It's a ridiculously expensive hobby, and not one good for the environment, but the fact that you may not get it doesn't mean that the people doing it aren't truly having a meaningfully happy experience.  Like someone climbing a mountain, traveling to a secluded island, etc.  What is being factored out of the equation in OP's post is the financial cost--because it either is insignificant, or more importantly, OP's friend has decided it's worth it to him.

We can debate tradeoffs, but this post isn't about tradeoffs.  It's about one person doing something he really wants to do, at a cost that for him seems totally worth it.  Is your new bike, fancy dinner, trip to climb a mountain, trip to see a foreign country, trip to secluded island any different--if you decide it's worth the cost and it does actually bring you happiness?

Btw, I'm removing the environmental impact in this entire discussion because that raises issues that are almost impossible to control for, and it's not really the main point here.  If you're not sure, just substitute in the following: "OP's friend wants to work 2 more months to buy a new race bike so he can ride with the fast group 3-4 times per week, and his finances are otherwise flawless."  Where do you come out on that?

P.S.  I used to track a fast car.  We're now a one-car family, and I typically take metro, ride the bike, walk, and would never buy an expensive (and likely, any) car again.  But I recall how much fun it was. 
Title: Re: OMY for clown car
Post by: Making Cookies on August 29, 2016, 03:31:06 PM
I get it. Dude loves his Bentley.

1. Buy a 2006 flying spur for 1/3 the price
https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/l-Used-2006-Bentley-Continental-Flying-Spur-c5280

2. Put this year's rims on it ($4-5K maybe?)

3. Put an updated car computer / GPS / bluetooth in it, high end - maybe another $1000?

4. Enjoy and put $200,000 in your pocket.

Thing is, "classic" cars like Bentleys generally age well and don't look dated 10 years on. Here's a 2006 interior. Still looks luxurious to me. Pass the grey poupon?

 (https://preview2.netcarshow.com/Mansory-Bentley_Continental_Flying_Spur-2006-1600-08.jpg)

Heck, that thing looks just like my grandfather's Crown Vic! (j/k)
Title: Re: OMY for clown car
Post by: gimp on August 29, 2016, 03:34:39 PM
Quote
If it was me, I'd get a new ferrari. Buy the biggest warranty I could. Then see how much Ferrari likes me after I test their warranty out. They offer a three year unlimited mile bumper to bumper warranty, and I believe up to 7 years of basic stuff and 12 years of powertrain if you elect to buy it. I would make it my full-time job to drive. I figure I could easily hit 100k miles a year just absolutely enjoying the car. See if they offer to buy the car back just to get rid of me when they see the odometer at 275k miles and still six months left in the warranty.

They offer warranties that don't have a mileage cap? Wow.

Hey Miles, great username.

They do in fact offer unlimited mile warranties.

Most owners are, well - they're rich people who want a rich person toy and then they baby that toy. Putting 10k miles a year on a ferrari is considered rather high; 3k is much more normal. A 30k mile one would be considered somewhat high mileage. This is part of the reason I think it'd be absolutely hilarious to put 300k on it in three years. It's a work of art, sure, but it's one that's meant to be driven - so let's bloody well drive it.



I agree with Cycling and disagree with Digital. The dude already has all the status he wants. He doesn't want a bentley for status, he wants it because he loves cars and it's a great car (if it's not falling apart.) Everyone has a few things in life they're willing to spend what seems like excessive time earning towards and enjoying.

Would you shit on someone who wants the extra money so they can sail around the world, or bike across the country, or bum around europe, or climb one of the tallest peaks, or fund a music album, or afford being able to volunteer?

As long as the dude is financially set, I don't think it much matters what he does with a few extra bucks. I'd probably judge him if he converted it to powder and snorted it, but other than that, meh.
Title: Re: OMY for clown car
Post by: Digital Dogma on August 29, 2016, 04:07:33 PM
I make lots of assumptions gimp, also Im judging those lifted trucks, bentlys, tattoos, and Im giving out lots of low scores. There is no reasoning behind it beyond idle banter.
Title: Re: OMY for clown car
Post by: gimp on August 29, 2016, 04:34:26 PM
I've started to appreciate people's interests more. As long as their lifted truck sees mud, their bentley gets driven, their tattoo ain't shit, I've stopped caring.

I still judge, but I try to judge less.

Idle banter is always fair game.
Title: Re: OMY for clown car
Post by: SeaEhm on August 29, 2016, 06:21:53 PM
He is proposing to work one more year in order to fund a clown car.
What do you reckon?

I reckon that many people don't read every line.

Instead of retiring one year, he is going to work another year TO FUND his extravagant purchase.  Now with that extra year of working, he is gaining $150k in earned income because he is not needing to use any of his $5mm net worth.  Earn $300k net spend $150k on any purchase equates to $150k more than if you didn't work and spent $0 for the year.

Title: Re: OMY for clown car
Post by: human on August 30, 2016, 01:54:38 AM
The real problem I see with this is his choice in cars. Get a lambo or ferrari or even a hellcat, why a bently? Fail.
Title: Re: OMY for clown car
Post by: SnackDog on August 30, 2016, 04:12:11 AM
Lots of interesting perspectives in here ranging from "Buy a Ferrari" to "MMM is killing the planet".

I reckon he will buy this car, as he is determined it seems. We'll see how it plays out.  I disagree that he can afford it just based on his savings as I don't see that level of spending supported by his annual withdrawals after taxes.  I'm pretty sure he realizes that as well since he is opting to work one more year to get the cash for this splurge.  That really is the crux of the issue here - working a year for the car. It really doesn't matter if he has $5MM, $50MM or $5,000 saved or what his debt situation is.  The fund for the car is coming exclusively from the extra year of work with plenty left over to cover operating costs for the thing.  He can make a little car graph on the wall at work. By March, he's paid for the engine, July the interior, November the fuzzy dice, etc.

My challenge to him is this -  has he exhaustively considered all the alternatives and considered the trade-offs?  Will he enjoy working one more year? What will it mean for his health?  Could he spend far less and get as much enjoyment from an older car or less exclusive one?  Would he prefer a $150,000 Winnebago he could live and travel in while renting out the house?  How about a $150,000 cruise around the world - 120 nights on the Queen Mary 2 in the penthouse suite?

I know he is excited about the Bentley brand, the W12 motor and the luxury interior. I don't think he cares at all about his image in the car or what anyone else thinks, but I am concerned he will look a bit of a fool in such a car. These things are best reserved for celebrities or sports stars, not some guy who slogged at his desk 30 years.  It's a bit Walter Mitty for me.
Title: Re: OMY for clown car
Post by: GuitarStv on August 30, 2016, 05:56:06 AM
Well, if we can forgive MMM for his follies, then, perhaps, somehow, we can find the strength to forgive Snackdog's colleuge for theirs.  Any data on how a $150k car is worse for the environment and thus every living thing on the planet than a $4k car. I would guess any difference is negligible.

I forgive MMM his mistakes, but I certainly wouldn't cheer him on while making them.  I would forgive this guy for buying a Bentley, but if the decision hasn't been made yet I certainly don't have to try to do something that would encourage a poor choice.

Regarding damage to other people . . . the fuel economy of 2016 Bentley cars ranges from 13 - 19 combined mpg.  (https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/bymake/Bentley2016.shtml (https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/bymake/Bentley2016.shtml))  The fuel economy of a 2016 Corolla is between 31 - 34 . . . so about twice as efficient, and the Corolla isn't exactly the best gas sipper you could buy.  (https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/bymodel/2016_Toyota_Corolla.shtml (https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/bymodel/2016_Toyota_Corolla.shtml)).
Title: Re: OMY for clown car
Post by: Making Cookies on August 30, 2016, 08:12:16 AM
On the topic of working another year to buy a car, what the guy is doing isn't that different from us regular people working another year to buy a grocery getter car.
Title: Re: OMY for clown car
Post by: Metric Mouse on August 30, 2016, 10:27:06 AM
Well, if we can forgive MMM for his follies, then, perhaps, somehow, we can find the strength to forgive Snackdog's colleuge for theirs.  Any data on how a $150k car is worse for the environment and thus every living thing on the planet than a $4k car. I would guess any difference is negligible.

I forgive MMM his mistakes, but I certainly wouldn't cheer him on while making them.  I would forgive this guy for buying a Bentley, but if the decision hasn't been made yet I certainly don't have to try to do something that would encourage a poor choice.

Poor choices abound in this world, that is for sure.
Title: Re: OMY for clown car
Post by: a-scho on August 30, 2016, 09:07:28 PM
Sounds like status seeking behavior, the car is not a form of transportation in that case, its a "lifestyle" proclamation to the rest of the world. He wants everyone around him to recognize that he has made it to a point in his life where he can blow cash out his tailpipe if he wants to.

I think thats what the french call nuveaux riche

If you are referring to "New Money" vs "Old Money" this doesnt really apply. This guy has apparently worked for everything he has and is aware that he will need(maybe want) to work another year in order to justify such an expensive automobile. To me, that's not "New Money" per se.

To me, "New Money" is the rapper, football player, startup CEO, lottery winner and such, who gets a boatload of money rather quickly and blows it on stupid shit trying to impress people who he shouldn't be worried about.

This guy, on the other hand, is a person I would rather have a conversation with a figure out how he did it. Good financial role model IMHO.

"New Money" is someone who acquired their wealth while working(or working it ;), within their lifetime. Not inherited. It's money made within one generation.  It doesn't mean they spent it all or are frivolous with it. It just was not inherited money. The Rockefellers, Vanderbilts, the queen of England etc. are old money. Bill Gates, Mark Zuckerberg, Warren Buffet, etc. are new money.

Title: Re: OMY for clown car
Post by: TheGrimSqueaker on August 31, 2016, 09:28:38 AM
Sounds like status seeking behavior, the car is not a form of transportation in that case, its a "lifestyle" proclamation to the rest of the world. He wants everyone around him to recognize that he has made it to a point in his life where he can blow cash out his tailpipe if he wants to.

I think thats what the french call nuveaux riche

If you are referring to "New Money" vs "Old Money" this doesnt really apply. This guy has apparently worked for everything he has and is aware that he will need(maybe want) to work another year in order to justify such an expensive automobile. To me, that's not "New Money" per se.

To me, "New Money" is the rapper, football player, startup CEO, lottery winner and such, who gets a boatload of money rather quickly and blows it on stupid shit trying to impress people who he shouldn't be worried about.

This guy, on the other hand, is a person I would rather have a conversation with a figure out how he did it. Good financial role model IMHO.

"New Money" is someone who acquired their wealth while working(or working it ;), within their lifetime. Not inherited. It's money made within one generation.  It doesn't mean they spent it all or are frivolous with it. It just was not inherited money. The Rockefellers, Vanderbilts, the queen of England etc. are old money. Bill Gates, Mark Zuckerberg, Warren Buffet, etc. are new money.

It's actually not just that they acquired their own wealth. Plenty of old money families do require their children to prove themselves competent before they inherit. Some actually live in a cash-poor way to teach their kids economy, or teach their kids that they might have rich parents, but they personally have bugger-all. Sometimes the result is people who are born affluent, who are taught that they have to "do something", and who then go on to get theirs. Some make a fortune before inheriting one, and end up richer than their parents even before they inherit. But they aren't actually changing their social class by doing this. They still have the tastes, preferences, and social contacts they got from growing up around other old families. They also have the behavior patterns: the way they treat other people, the expectations they have of them, and the obligations that they have to others.

A "new money" person gains enough wealth to significantly change his or her social class. Such a person is a bit of a social transplant, and sometimes makes mistakes with money due to lack of experience. Also, the stereotype is that new money people aren't content to spend money, and are psychologically compelled to waste it or spend it ostentatiously.
Title: Re: OMY for clown car
Post by: SnackDog on August 31, 2016, 10:18:20 AM
You may wish to read the excellent "Class" by Paul Fussell.  It reviews the confusion since the mid 20th century between net worth and social status.  In the old days, it was very straightforward if one had money into which social class one belonged.  Rich people were upper class in the Europeans sense: extremely well-mannered, multi-generational families many of whom potentially never had "real jobs" but collected and spent vast sums of, say, rent or controlled large companies or railroads, means of production.

Since the 1960s or so in America it has been more common to become a multi-millionaire rapidly via athletics, tech economy, porn sites, etc.  Many of these people have no particular breed, education, social graces, or taste.  Some don't even have servants.  They drive their own cars and sometimes put large chrome wheels on them. They tend toward garish casino-style homes with pools and fountains. They are not necessarily interested nor welcome at the local country club nor the symphony benefit vertical claret tasting.

Back to the subject at hand, Mr. Bentley is not rich or upper class.  He takes out his own garbage cans. He is a degreed professional worker bee in a large company with almost 25 years.  He has been frugal with his spending but also has built significant SFH real estate equity and has a 7 figure company pension lump sum coming his way.  His retirement 'stache is likely no different than any other moderately well compensated professional who works hard and lives well within his means - physician, dentist, banker, small business owner.    But will he look right in a Bentley Flying Spur?
Title: Re: OMY for clown car
Post by: TheGrimSqueaker on August 31, 2016, 11:03:14 AM
You may wish to read the excellent "Class" by Paul Fussell.  It reviews the confusion since the mid 20th century between net worth and social status.  In the old days, it was very straightforward if one had money into which social class one belonged.  Rich people were upper class in the Europeans sense: extremely well-mannered, multi-generational families many of whom potentially never had "real jobs" but collected and spent vast sums of, say, rent or controlled large companies or railroads, means of production.

Since the 1960s or so in America it has been more common to become a multi-millionaire rapidly via athletics, tech economy, porn sites, etc.  Many of these people have no particular breed, education, social graces, or taste.  Some don't even have servants.  They drive their own cars and sometimes put large chrome wheels on them. They tend toward garish casino-style homes with pools and fountains. They are not necessarily interested nor welcome at the local country club nor the symphony benefit vertical claret tasting.

Back to the subject at hand, Mr. Bentley is not rich or upper class.  He takes out his own garbage cans. He is a degreed professional worker bee in a large company with almost 25 years.  He has been frugal with his spending but also has built significant SFH real estate equity and has a 7 figure company pension lump sum coming his way.  His retirement 'stache is likely no different than any other moderately well compensated professional who works hard and lives well within his means - physician, dentist, banker, small business owner.    But will he look right in a Bentley Flying Spur?

I've read Fussell's book, and like most academics he gets a few things right but misses the point almost completely. Class and money are related but neither determines the other. Lord Byron, flat broke and living solely on the proceeds of his writing, was still a member of the titled nobility. In fact, a lot of old money families are not that rich.

You have some unusual beliefs about how upper class people used to behave, or still do behave. It's kind of nave. The nasty part of human nature isn't confined to the unwashed proletariat though.

One group you mentioned was the European old money elite. I assure you that HRH QEII does in fact drive her own vehicle when it suits her, and she served as a military driver in WWII. She's also heavily into taste and social graces. You could regard her as one end of a spectrum of behavior that encompasses a wide range of traits and standards known as upper class. There's also a subset of that same elite clique known as "Eurotrash": inbred, drug-addicted brats who have no role in any community and who act simultaneously entitled and expendable because they truly are. In between, there's a huge spectrum of behavior, any of which might be called "upper class". But one recurring theme is that you have to have a role in the world. It's not necessarily tied up with earning money, working for pay, or employing other people.

The notion that old money somehow possesses social graces or superior taste can probably be corrected with a dose of Edith Wharton, Wilmot (2nd Earl of Rochester), and such. If you'd like a more contemporary look at American inherited wealth, check out the documentary "Born Rich". You'll notice that the wealthy people in the documentary have interests. Real jobs, as it were, although they don't necessarily have to be profitable. Other people who are less wealthy share those interests, but don't get snubbed or looked down on simply because they weren't born into wealth. The shared interest is what does it. That's why Mr. Bentley is going to be OK.

Mr. Bentley is going to do just fine. If he joins an owner's club, at least some of the other Bentley owners are going to be wealthier and possibly from old money. So what? They're not going to beat him up or take his lunch money simply because his daddy wasn't rich enough. Why? Because they're there for the cars. Shared enjoyment in a mutual interest can sometimes lead to friendship, such that he might get to talking or having coffee with other retirees once in a while. He might end up rubbing shoulders with someone a lot richer. Or a lot poorer, if he runs across someone who overindulges financially. But it's not as though he's using the Bentley to con people out of money or pass himself off as something he's not. He'll be a retired guy with a hobby he loves. Who cares how he looks while driving? Of course he's going to drive his own car. That was the entire point of getting it.

All this information about Mr. Bentley being a "degreed professional worker bee" and "large company" is brand new information to everybody here. You've clearly got a lot of contempt for him, but I don't think his experience is going to be as unpleasant as you'd like. I do think you'll get a huge kick out of Edith Wharton and the other authors I recommended.
Title: Re: OMY for clown car
Post by: MilesTeg on August 31, 2016, 12:27:53 PM
If you want a good understanding of "new" vs "old" money, read 'The Great Gatsby'.
Title: Re: OMY for clown car
Post by: TheGrimSqueaker on August 31, 2016, 12:39:43 PM
If you want a good understanding of "new" vs "old" money, read 'The Great Gatsby'.

Also good reading. I recommended Wharton because she was actually from that group of people and the perspective she creates really was "from the inside" instead of from the outside looking in.
Title: Re: OMY for clown car
Post by: honeybbq on August 31, 2016, 12:42:54 PM


A colleague of mine is in his mid fifties and ready to retire early. He has saved about $5MM and has two nearly paid for homes.
What do you reckon?

If I had 5MM and that's what I wanted to do- I'd do it.
Title: Re: OMY for clown car
Post by: honeybbq on August 31, 2016, 12:44:19 PM
Good input.

My issues are -

1) if he has only $5MM saved, he will have to live on say 3.5% of that as he is retiring early.  $175K/yr is maybe $130K/yr after tax.  I  think we all probably know families spending $130K per year and they are not purchasing $150,000 vehicles to drive. 



Yep, most people who buy 130k cars don't earn even 100k!
Title: Re: OMY for clown car
Post by: Metric Mouse on September 13, 2016, 07:23:21 AM
He'll be a retired guy with a hobby he loves. Who cares how he looks while driving? Of course he's going to drive his own car. That was the entire point of getting it.

All this information about Mr. Bentley being a "degreed professional worker bee" and "large company" is brand new information to everybody here. You've clearly got a lot of contempt for him, but I don't think his experience is going to be as unpleasant as you'd like.

Well said. Some people just can't be happy for others who are happy.
Title: Re: OMY for clown car
Post by: Metric Mouse on September 13, 2016, 07:26:35 AM
Regarding damage to other people . . . the fuel economy of 2016 Bentley cars ranges from 13 - 19 combined mpg.  (https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/bymake/Bentley2016.shtml (https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/bymake/Bentley2016.shtml))

Fair point. I would never have guessed Bently's got worse gas mileage than some pickup trucks. And that's even with cheating on their emissions testing.
Title: Re: OMY for clown car
Post by: SeaEhm on September 13, 2016, 07:49:49 PM
Back to the subject at hand, Mr. Bentley is not rich or upper class.  He takes out his own garbage cans. He is a degreed professional worker bee in a large company with almost 25 years.  He has been frugal with his spending but also has built significant SFH real estate equity and has a 7 figure company pension lump sum coming his way.  His retirement 'stache is likely no different than any other moderately well compensated professional who works hard and lives well within his means - physician, dentist, banker, small business owner.    But will he look right in a Bentley Flying Spur?

Will he look right driving a Bentley?  Who do you think drives Bentleys?


Also, as I said earlier, he is working another year to pay for the car, therefore, making himself even more financially well off. 

Buying the Bentley is actually a good idea for him financially speaking because it postpones his retirement 1 year while adding $100k net worth (assuming $50k spending)
Title: Re: OMY for clown car
Post by: GuitarStv on September 14, 2016, 06:23:10 AM
Back to the subject at hand, Mr. Bentley is not rich or upper class.  He takes out his own garbage cans. He is a degreed professional worker bee in a large company with almost 25 years.  He has been frugal with his spending but also has built significant SFH real estate equity and has a 7 figure company pension lump sum coming his way.  His retirement 'stache is likely no different than any other moderately well compensated professional who works hard and lives well within his means - physician, dentist, banker, small business owner.    But will he look right in a Bentley Flying Spur?

Will he look right driving a Bentley?  Who do you think drives Bentleys?


Also, as I said earlier, he is working another year to pay for the car, therefore, making himself even more financially well off. 

Buying the Bentley is actually a good idea for him financially speaking because it postpones his retirement 1 year while adding $100k net worth (assuming $50k spending)

Working until death is the best idea, financially.  This website isn't really about doing the best thing financially . . . it's about optimizing your life to achieve maximum happiness.  The argument against working to buy the car is that spending a year of your limited life to acquire a new thing will probably not result in greater happiness than if you spent that year with friends and family doing things that you enjoy.
Title: Re: OMY for clown car
Post by: Cycling Stache on September 14, 2016, 07:48:56 AM
Buying the Bentley is actually a good idea for him financially speaking because it postpones his retirement 1 year while adding $100k net worth (assuming $50k spending)

Working until death is the best idea, financially.  This website isn't really about doing the best thing financially . . . it's about optimizing your life to achieve maximum happiness.  The argument against working to buy the car is that spending a year of your limited life to acquire a new thing will probably not result in greater happiness than if you spent that year with friends and family doing things that you enjoy.

Actually, I sadly understand the logic of SeaEhm's point.  I worked at a large law firm making a big salary, and around year 5 I was totally burned out.  I then bought a BMW M5 (used, but low miles) as an effort to see if I would enjoy spending the money I was making, which seemed to be the only reward for an otherwise miserable job.  I really did enjoy it and ended up sticking it out for 2 more years, significantly increasing my net worth.

To be clear, I would have been much better off saving the money and using it to retire earlier, but at the time, it was the car that made me feel like I could stick it out for a couple more years when I was otherwise ready to quit, the result of which was a significant increase in my net worth.  So to the extent that the guy thinks that it's totally worth working for another year to buy the car (even if he realizes he's mistaken in retrospect), he will benefit financially. 

While I wouldn't buy a car like that again, it doesn't bother me as much that someone wants to work a little longer at the end to splurge on something they think they'll enjoy when they've got everything else taken care of.  I've sort of been thinking the same thing about buying a fancier race bike, although I rationalize it on the ground that I've already put 25,000 miles on the bike I bought 6 years ago, so I'm likely to get some enjoyment out of the splurge item.  Still, I imagine sticking around an extra month at the end with the idea that I'm doing it to buy the bike, so even if it's unnecessary, it's a luxury that I feel like I've knowingly purchased with an extra month of work. 
Title: Re: OMY for clown car
Post by: SnackDog on September 14, 2016, 09:56:13 AM
It's interesting to consider the possibilities for 1-2 years of "free salary" once the savings is all dialed in.  Bikes, cars, vacations, houses, gambling, massages, designer drugs, whatever.  Everyone will make a different choice based on their priorities. People who hate their job will get out as early as they can.  Others who like their work and can't think of many better options, will continue working and saving and possibly even spend more while working.  I know people who are reluctant to retire simply because the *fringe benefits* they get from working are hard to put aside (housing, transportation, dining, etc).  For an extreme example, imagine a corp exec who has access to private jet travel for business but also family vacations.  Once she retires, life gets  a little harder.  I have a friend who eats dinner at Michelin-star restaurants several times a month on his corp card. He brings his wife every time. They have to make small talk with some corporate person to justify the expense, but they glug a lot of fine wine and have fun.  They won't be doing this as much in retirement.
Title: Re: OMY for clown car
Post by: SeaEhm on September 14, 2016, 06:06:02 PM

Working until death is the best idea, financially.  This website isn't really about doing the best thing financially . . . it's about optimizing your life to achieve maximum happiness. 
'

And the guy will achieve perceived maximum happiness from working one more year and driving a bentley.

So...
Title: Re: OMY for clown car
Post by: Rufus.T.Firefly on September 14, 2016, 06:14:01 PM
I'm just posting to hate on the Bentley. OMY for a Bentley!!!? Really?!

I can think about about 10 cars I would pick over a Bentley for that kind of money.
Title: Re: OMY for clown car
Post by: SeaEhm on September 14, 2016, 07:30:25 PM
I would have 0 regrets.

(http://s1.cdn.autoevolution.com/images/news/gallery/porsche-911-gt3-rs-by-porsche-exclusive-rendered-photo-gallery_5.jpg)

Title: Re: OMY for clown car
Post by: GuitarStv on September 15, 2016, 06:32:36 AM

Working until death is the best idea, financially.  This website isn't really about doing the best thing financially . . . it's about optimizing your life to achieve maximum happiness. 
'

And the guy will achieve perceived maximum happiness from working one more year and driving a bentley.

So...

That's only true if you believe that owning things is the path to happiness.  While commonly assumed, when you take the time to analyze that line of thought it's really hard to defend as being true.
Title: Re: OMY for clown car
Post by: Scandium on September 15, 2016, 07:29:26 AM
This thread is a perfect example. OP and others are trying to shame the person for making a purchase they don't agree with and not out of any legitimate concern for the person's financial status.

At leas IMO, the main issue is whether this is Bentley purchase will give the optimum, maximum happiness per dollar. It's a car. Four wheels, engine, seats etc. It drives your ass places. Except it costs a crapton more for some obscure reasons. As some mentioned he'll probably be bored of it very shortly. Then there is another fancy luxury car that seems better. This is how most of the car industry operate.

For most sane people the amount of fun, life-changing awesome experiences (or whatever else) you could do for $150,000 so far overshadow the slight smug satisfaction you get from driving on the same road to the same places, except it's in a Bentley instead of a Toyota, that it's just absurd. If the only way to experience driving an automobile was $150,000 then maybe it'd make sense. But when you can do 99% of the same thing (drive from A to B), except the seats aren't hand-sewn from cows decedent from Luis XIV's personal stock it's just silly. If a person doesn't have anything better to spend that kind of money on they are truly lacking in imagination!
Title: Re: OMY for clown car
Post by: Chris22 on September 15, 2016, 09:02:58 AM
So let's say you guys are right. 6 months after buying the car, he decides "this sucks, I'm not happier with this thing."  So what?  He paid cash for it, he sells it on, and he loses, say, 20%. He's a rich dude, he can afford the hit. It's not the end of the world. And he fulfilled a dream he decided was no longer a dream. This isn't a catastrophe. He isn't putting his financial well being and family's health at risk. His total downside is "well, gee, I didn't like that as much as I thought I did, I'll sell it."

So the fuck what? 
Title: Re: OMY for clown car
Post by: GuitarStv on September 15, 2016, 09:12:29 AM
So let's say you guys are right. 6 months after buying the car, he decides "this sucks, I'm not happier with this thing."  So what?  He paid cash for it, he sells it on, and he loses, say, 20%. He's a rich dude, he can afford the hit. It's not the end of the world. And he fulfilled a dream he decided was no longer a dream. This isn't a catastrophe. He isn't putting his financial well being and family's health at risk. His total downside is "well, gee, I didn't like that as much as I thought I did, I'll sell it."

So the fuck what?

So he wasted money, and a significant chunk of his life.  He helped to fuel demand for a useless environmentally damaging product.  All this for no benefit of any kind.
Title: Re: OMY for clown car
Post by: Scandium on September 15, 2016, 09:17:48 AM
So let's say you guys are right. 6 months after buying the car, he decides "this sucks, I'm not happier with this thing."  So what?  He paid cash for it, he sells it on, and he loses, say, 20%. He's a rich dude, he can afford the hit. It's not the end of the world. And he fulfilled a dream he decided was no longer a dream. This isn't a catastrophe. He isn't putting his financial well being and family's health at risk. His total downside is "well, gee, I didn't like that as much as I thought I did, I'll sell it."

So the fuck what?
It's not a fuck what. Not it's not a catastrophe. It don't matter. But if you take 3 seconds to think about it, spending the cost of a house in many parts of the country on an unreliable automobile is so absurdly stupid. Waste of money is waste of money, even if the wastee is rich.

Me wasting $5 on a fancy cupcake is no big deal. But I realize it's underwhelming and didn't actually enjoy it as much as I thought I would. So it's stupid and I don't do that.

Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk

Title: Re: OMY for clown car
Post by: Chris22 on September 15, 2016, 09:21:49 AM
So let's say you guys are right. 6 months after buying the car, he decides "this sucks, I'm not happier with this thing."  So what?  He paid cash for it, he sells it on, and he loses, say, 20%. He's a rich dude, he can afford the hit. It's not the end of the world. And he fulfilled a dream he decided was no longer a dream. This isn't a catastrophe. He isn't putting his financial well being and family's health at risk. His total downside is "well, gee, I didn't like that as much as I thought I did, I'll sell it."

So the fuck what?

So he wasted money, and a significant chunk of his life.  He helped to fuel demand for a useless environmentally damaging product.  All this for no benefit of any kind.

Oh stop it with the environmentally damaging bit. The incremental waste coming from someone using a Bentley recreationally (i.e. Low miles) instead of a Corolla is immaterial.  It's a rounding error. It doesn't matter.

With regards to the rest, I disagree. Working towards something that you purchase is a sense of fulfillment that is not dependant on the item purchased being fulfilling. Even if the man decides later that he doesn't love the car, I can almost guarantee he doesn't regret setting a goal, working to fulfill it, and then achieving that goal.
Title: Re: OMY for clown car
Post by: Chris22 on September 15, 2016, 09:24:17 AM
So let's say you guys are right. 6 months after buying the car, he decides "this sucks, I'm not happier with this thing."  So what?  He paid cash for it, he sells it on, and he loses, say, 20%. He's a rich dude, he can afford the hit. It's not the end of the world. And he fulfilled a dream he decided was no longer a dream. This isn't a catastrophe. He isn't putting his financial well being and family's health at risk. His total downside is "well, gee, I didn't like that as much as I thought I did, I'll sell it."

So the fuck what?
It's not a fuck what. Not it's not a catastrophe. It don't matter. But if you take 3 seconds to think about it, spending the cost of a house in many parts of the country on an unreliable automobile is so absurdly stupid. Waste of money is waste of money, even if the wastee is rich.

Me wasting $5 on a fancy cupcake is no big deal. But I realize it's underwhelming and didn't actually enjoy it as much as I thought I would. So it's stupid and I don't do that.

Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk

That's an opinion, which you are welcome to, but you are not welcome to assert it as a fact. A Bentley is not my cup of tea, but there are plenty of reasons why someone may want to own something that is one of the top few examples of a car in terms of craftsmanship, performance, etc.
Title: Re: OMY for clown car
Post by: Scandium on September 15, 2016, 09:31:53 AM
So let's say you guys are right. 6 months after buying the car, he decides "this sucks, I'm not happier with this thing."  So what?  He paid cash for it, he sells it on, and he loses, say, 20%. He's a rich dude, he can afford the hit. It's not the end of the world. And he fulfilled a dream he decided was no longer a dream. This isn't a catastrophe. He isn't putting his financial well being and family's health at risk. His total downside is "well, gee, I didn't like that as much as I thought I did, I'll sell it."

So the fuck what?
It's not a fuck what. Not it's not a catastrophe. It don't matter. But if you take 3 seconds to think about it, spending the cost of a house in many parts of the country on an unreliable automobile is so absurdly stupid. Waste of money is waste of money, even if the wastee is rich.

Me wasting $5 on a fancy cupcake is no big deal. But I realize it's underwhelming and didn't actually enjoy it as much as I thought I would. So it's stupid and I don't do that.

Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk

That's an opinion, which you are welcome to, but you are not welcome to assert it as a fact. A Bentley is not my cup of tea, but there are plenty of reasons why someone may want to own something that is one of the top few examples of a car in terms of craftsmanship, performance, etc.
Perhaps, but science show that those reasons are wrong. MMM has referenced this several times, and is much of the point of the anti-consumption focus: buying shit doesn't make you happy. Even though almost everyone belive it will. I still do sometimes.

So it doesn't matter whether someone can afford it, or it's what they want or whatever. Buying stuff will not make the person happier, at best for a short time before they have to buy more. That's not opinion. If the same amount of money can get the person more happiness then it's stupid to go with the less optimum approach. That's just common sense.
Title: Re: OMY for clown car
Post by: GuitarStv on September 15, 2016, 09:41:07 AM
So let's say you guys are right. 6 months after buying the car, he decides "this sucks, I'm not happier with this thing."  So what?  He paid cash for it, he sells it on, and he loses, say, 20%. He's a rich dude, he can afford the hit. It's not the end of the world. And he fulfilled a dream he decided was no longer a dream. This isn't a catastrophe. He isn't putting his financial well being and family's health at risk. His total downside is "well, gee, I didn't like that as much as I thought I did, I'll sell it."

So the fuck what?
It's not a fuck what. Not it's not a catastrophe. It don't matter. But if you take 3 seconds to think about it, spending the cost of a house in many parts of the country on an unreliable automobile is so absurdly stupid. Waste of money is waste of money, even if the wastee is rich.

Me wasting $5 on a fancy cupcake is no big deal. But I realize it's underwhelming and didn't actually enjoy it as much as I thought I would. So it's stupid and I don't do that.

Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk

That's an opinion, which you are welcome to, but you are not welcome to assert it as a fact. A Bentley is not my cup of tea, but there are plenty of reasons why someone may want to own something that is one of the top few examples of a car in terms of craftsmanship, performance, etc.
Perhaps, but science show that those reasons are wrong. MMM has referenced this several times, and is much of the point of the anti-consumption focus: buying shit doesn't make you happy. Even though almost everyone belive it will. I still do sometimes.

So it doesn't matter whether someone can afford it, or it's what they want or whatever. Buying stuff will not make the person happier, at best for a short time before they have to buy more. That's not opinion. If the same amount of money can get the person more happiness then it's stupid to go with the less optimum approach. That's just common sense.

The same conclusion that stuff doesn't bring happiness has been reached many times.  From Epicurus (building on the ideas of Socrates) to the Stoics of ancient Greece, to the teachings of Buddha, to Taoist philosophy, to literature like Thoreau's Walden, supported by modern psychological observation . . .  it keeps coming up any time that people think long and hard on how best to achieve happiness.
Title: Re: OMY for clown car
Post by: GuitarStv on September 15, 2016, 09:50:50 AM
So let's say you guys are right. 6 months after buying the car, he decides "this sucks, I'm not happier with this thing."  So what?  He paid cash for it, he sells it on, and he loses, say, 20%. He's a rich dude, he can afford the hit. It's not the end of the world. And he fulfilled a dream he decided was no longer a dream. This isn't a catastrophe. He isn't putting his financial well being and family's health at risk. His total downside is "well, gee, I didn't like that as much as I thought I did, I'll sell it."

So the fuck what?

So he wasted money, and a significant chunk of his life.  He helped to fuel demand for a useless environmentally damaging product.  All this for no benefit of any kind.

Oh stop it with the environmentally damaging bit. The incremental waste coming from someone using a Bentley recreationally (i.e. Low miles) instead of a Corolla is immaterial.  It's a rounding error. It doesn't matter.


The problem with this reasoning is that you can use it to justify away any action.  You could pour some oil into the creek behind your house (it's just a little oil, who cares?).  You can throw a bag of garbage out of your car as you're speeding along (one bag is so little, who cares?).  As thousands upon thousands of people cause these rounding errors everything gets noticeably worse for everyone.  Small actions matter.

That's setting aside the fact that you're claiming that after buying this vehicle the guy isn't going to use it very much - which if true begs the question, why buy it at all then?, and if false puts to lie your claims that there is little difference between a significantly more fuel efficient car.



With regards to the rest, I disagree. Working towards something that you purchase is a sense of fulfillment that is not dependant on the item purchased being fulfilling. Even if the man decides later that he doesn't love the car, I can almost guarantee he doesn't regret setting a goal, working to fulfill it, and then achieving that goal.

I agree with the first half of this.  Working towards something is quite fulfilling.  If the sense of fulfillment isn't dependent on buying stuff and we know that stuff doesn't bring lasting happiness then why not skip out the middle man and work towards things that do?
Title: Re: OMY for clown car
Post by: TheGrimSqueaker on September 15, 2016, 10:13:31 AM
There's a good chance the Bentley guy is going to get maximum satisfaction for his dollar. It's something he's wanted for a very long time, so there's most likely more to his desire than conspicuous consumption. Caring for and driving that vehicle might, for him, be a delight to all his senses and something that puts comfort and peace in his heart. But supposing for the moment that the naysayers are right and he loses interest in the car because some other shiny thing crosses his path, it's still not the end of the world.

This fellow sounds like a generally frugal person in most respects of his life. He's not going to become suddenly stupid now. There's no reason he won't do his best to make sure he gets a good deal. If he buys the vehicle used, does his own work the way a lot of car people on this forum do, keeps it in good working order, and decides in a few months that he's not really feeling it, he can sell it and get the vast majority of his OMY money back. It wouldn't be as easy as selling a more liquid asset such as VTSAX shares, but his decision is still mostly reversible except to the extent he won't get that year back. The year itself isn't going to be that big of a loss, because he's going to be full of optimism and making the sacrifice willingly for something that he really, truly wants.

There are plenty of other indulgences just as expensive, such as travel or education, that cannot be liquidated should the spender wish to do so. If he'd decided to do OMY in order to take a two-month-long round-the-world trip for himself and his immediate family, or if he decided to put himself through an expensive underwater basket-weaving degree because it's what he always wanted, that's not an expense that can be cashed out afterwards. He's doing the OMY first, paying cash, and not signing up for an ongoing financial expense that's going to pinch him or his family in any way.
Title: Re: OMY for clown car
Post by: Chris22 on September 15, 2016, 10:24:00 AM
So let's say you guys are right. 6 months after buying the car, he decides "this sucks, I'm not happier with this thing."  So what?  He paid cash for it, he sells it on, and he loses, say, 20%. He's a rich dude, he can afford the hit. It's not the end of the world. And he fulfilled a dream he decided was no longer a dream. This isn't a catastrophe. He isn't putting his financial well being and family's health at risk. His total downside is "well, gee, I didn't like that as much as I thought I did, I'll sell it."

So the fuck what?
It's not a fuck what. Not it's not a catastrophe. It don't matter. But if you take 3 seconds to think about it, spending the cost of a house in many parts of the country on an unreliable automobile is so absurdly stupid. Waste of money is waste of money, even if the wastee is rich.

Me wasting $5 on a fancy cupcake is no big deal. But I realize it's underwhelming and didn't actually enjoy it as much as I thought I would. So it's stupid and I don't do that.

Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk

That's an opinion, which you are welcome to, but you are not welcome to assert it as a fact. A Bentley is not my cup of tea, but there are plenty of reasons why someone may want to own something that is one of the top few examples of a car in terms of craftsmanship, performance, etc.
Perhaps, but science show that those reasons are wrong. MMM has referenced this several times, and is much of the point of the anti-consumption focus: buying shit doesn't make you happy. Even though almost everyone belive it will. I still do sometimes.

So it doesn't matter whether someone can afford it, or it's what they want or whatever. Buying stuff will not make the person happier, at best for a short time before they have to buy more. That's not opinion. If the same amount of money can get the person more happiness then it's stupid to go with the less optimum approach. That's just common sense.

The same conclusion that stuff doesn't bring happiness has been reached many times.  From Epicurus (building on the ideas of Socrates) to the Stoics of ancient Greece, to the teachings of Buddha, to Taoist philosophy, to literature like Thoreau's Walden, supported by modern psychological observation . . .  it keeps coming up any time that people think long and hard on how best to achieve happiness.

Maybe I'm just an unsophisticated dumbass, but I drove the sports car I bought ten years ago to work today. I enjoyed every second. I smiled all the way to work. I liked rowing the gears and feeling the wind in my hair.  It made me happy.  Would it make me happy if everything else in my life sucked?  Probably not, but my life was happier this morning than it was yesterday morning when I drove my other car to work.

I don't know what else to tell you.
Title: Re: OMY for clown car
Post by: Scandium on September 15, 2016, 11:29:18 AM
I liked rowing the gears and feeling the wind in my hair. 

Have you tried a bicycle? It'll do those things as well..
Title: Re: OMY for clown car
Post by: GuitarStv on September 15, 2016, 11:36:36 AM
I liked rowing the gears and feeling the wind in my hair. 

Have you tried a bicycle? It'll do those things as well..

Danger Will Robinson!!
Title: Re: OMY for clown car
Post by: Chris22 on September 15, 2016, 12:04:35 PM
I liked rowing the gears and feeling the wind in my hair. 

Have you tried a bicycle? It'll do those things as well..

Have one of those too. Not exactly the same thing.
Title: Re: OMY for clown car
Post by: ShoulderThingThatGoesUp on September 15, 2016, 12:12:38 PM
You guys aren't ascetics either; I'm sure you have things you enjoy that you don't absolutely need. Chris is just more honest about it than most.
Title: Re: OMY for clown car
Post by: Chris22 on September 15, 2016, 12:17:06 PM
I liked rowing the gears and feeling the wind in my hair. 

Have you tried a bicycle? It'll do those things as well..

So are you suggesting there's a thing, a bicycle, that I could buy, which would increase my happiness?  I thought you said it couldn't be done???
Title: Re: OMY for clown car
Post by: Scandium on September 15, 2016, 12:21:07 PM
I liked rowing the gears and feeling the wind in my hair. 

Have you tried a bicycle? It'll do those things as well..

So are you suggesting there's a thing, a bicycle, that I could buy, which would increase my happiness?  I thought you said it couldn't be done???
No, personally I don't particularly enjoy biking. It doesn't make me happy. You just said you wanted gears and wind in your hair. I offered a way to get that.
Title: Re: OMY for clown car
Post by: Cycling Stache on September 15, 2016, 12:21:59 PM
The rhetoric in this thread is getting out of control.

A bike is a thing.  Buying a bike made me happy.  I've ridden it 25,000 miles in the last 6 years.

I also run.  Could I run instead of bike?  Would that avoid buying that bike thing.  Yes.  Am I nonetheless happier because I bought a bike?  Yes, because I enjoy biking more.

Buying things can bring you happiness, and while it is true that normally experiences are better, some of the things you buy are for those experiences.  It's why even though running shoes may be a thing, running shoes can make you happy, because running in them versus work shoes or no shoes or any other kind of shoe is more pleasant (for most of us). 

A lot of you are focused on the car as a thing.  But I'm fairly certain the OP said that he wanted to drive it all over the place in some kind of way that made him happy.  That's an experience.  Is it true that he might get close to the same amount of joy with a lesser item?  Maybe, but the OP's suggestion was that the car was for him an experience.

Go to a track event sometime and see how happy driving cars can make some people.  Then consider that maybe the activities that make you happy might just be different than the activities that make other people happy.

And just to show how absurd this has become.  Of course, he could bike rather than drive.  But that would require buying a thing.  Or maybe he could walk rather than bike.  But that would require shoes, and thus a thing.  So the question that OP referenced is not whether a thing in of itself has value, affected OP's colleague's material wealth, etc.  It was whether OP's colleague's belief as to what would make him happy and working for that with no financial consequences to him was ridiculous.  While it might not be what many of us would do, ridiculous is a strong term when you're talking about how much others will value a particular experience.

And don't get sanctimonious about costs.  Most of us are saving hundreds of thousands of dollars for early retirement so we can fund ourselves, not so that each dollar can help another person in need.  This is not a moral issue, although there was a very long thread on that (Sol's, I believe) and the nicer than necessary shoes, nicer than necessary house, nicer than necessary clothes, any "fun activity" things you buy, etc., all suffer under the same analysis of that could have been another dollar that someone else could live on.

I understand the potential environmental impact, but that's an area we could all do better at, and it wasn't the thrust of the question posited by OP.

Indeed, this thread is starting to convince me to buy a race bike because I have ridden the crap out of mine and worn it down, and I'm starting to get more clearly that sometimes you can buy things that do bring you happiness, and that's perfectly okay if you're able to afford it and have done the math on whether working X more days/months/years is worth it.  Like buying a plane ticket to Europe.  Or hiking boots.  Or whatever else may float your boat. 

But don't buy a boat, because those really are a waste of money!  :)
Title: Re: OMY for clown car
Post by: gimp on September 15, 2016, 04:47:57 PM
If you think the only point of a car is to get you places, you're not a car person. That's totally fine. But you therefore can't imagine how a car person feels about cars. For many of us, it's the journey, not the destination, that matters.

I still don't know why anyone cares about the "wasteful" spending of someone who can afford it.
Title: Re: OMY for clown car
Post by: KodeBlue on September 15, 2016, 06:28:51 PM
"You used to think that it was so easy
You used to say that it was so easy
But you're trying, you're trying now
Another year and then you'd be happy
Just one more year and then you'd be happy
But you're crying, you're crying now"
Gerry Rafferty, Baker Street

Ironic, that was the theme song for Dave Ramsey's show for several years.
Title: Re: OMY for clown car
Post by: SeaEhm on September 15, 2016, 11:01:03 PM
Chris - you just need to buy a corolla and stick your head out of the window while shifting from 1 -2 -L- D and N for when you want to rev to listen to the engine purr. 

In closing, talking to non car people about cars is like talking to people at a Yelp event who don't eat food for taste.

Title: Re: OMY for clown car
Post by: SeaEhm on September 15, 2016, 11:09:51 PM
Regarding maximum happiness.

Some people hunt for the hunt. Some people hunt for the kill.

Title: Re: OMY for clown car
Post by: MilesTeg on September 15, 2016, 11:22:32 PM

So he wasted money, and a significant chunk of his life.  He helped to fuel demand for a useless environmentally damaging product.  All this for no benefit of any kind.

Not up to you to judge how someone spends their money or their life. Also, if you want to save the planet, the best decision you can possibly make to maximize your contribution to that goal is to not have children. That decision will reduce your carbon footprint several orders of magnitude (at least!) more than not buying _any_ car.

Why no hate for people who have children?
Title: Re: OMY for clown car
Post by: Scandium on September 16, 2016, 04:17:53 AM

So he wasted money, and a significant chunk of his life.  He helped to fuel demand for a useless environmentally damaging product.  All this for no benefit of any kind.

Not up to you to judge how someone spends their money or their life. Also, if you want to save the planet, the best decision you can possibly make to maximize your contribution to that goal is to not have children. That decision will reduce your carbon footprint several orders of magnitude (at least!) more than not buying _any_ car.

Why no hate for people who have children?
Why not? I reserve the right to judge all I want. What gives you the right to bar me from judging?

And what if my child will cure cancer and/or invention infinite clean fuel?

Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk

Title: Re: OMY for clown car
Post by: Primm on September 16, 2016, 04:41:07 AM

So he wasted money, and a significant chunk of his life.  He helped to fuel demand for a useless environmentally damaging product.  All this for no benefit of any kind.

Not up to you to judge how someone spends their money or their life. Also, if you want to save the planet, the best decision you can possibly make to maximize your contribution to that goal is to not have children. That decision will reduce your carbon footprint several orders of magnitude (at least!) more than not buying _any_ car.

Why no hate for people who have children?
Why not? I reserve the right to judge all I want. What gives you the right to bar me from judging?

And what if my child will cure cancer and/or invention infinite clean fuel?

Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk

Poor argument in this context. If your child cures cancer the world's population grows faster so the environmental issues are magnified. So not a good thing for the earth.
Title: Re: OMY for clown car
Post by: Scandium on September 16, 2016, 04:46:26 AM

So he wasted money, and a significant chunk of his life.  He helped to fuel demand for a useless environmentally damaging product.  All this for no benefit of any kind.

Not up to you to judge how someone spends their money or their life. Also, if you want to save the planet, the best decision you can possibly make to maximize your contribution to that goal is to not have children. That decision will reduce your carbon footprint several orders of magnitude (at least!) more than not buying _any_ car.

Why no hate for people who have children?
Why not? I reserve the right to judge all I want. What gives you the right to bar me from judging?

And what if my child will cure cancer and/or invention infinite clean fuel?

Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk

Poor argument in this context. If your child cures cancer the world's population grows faster so the environmental issues are magnified. So not a good thing for the earth.
Ok. So then what if my child is another Stalin? And murder all other humans. That'd be great for the environment right?


Edit: Here's a picture of my son right here:

(https://cdn.meme.am/instances/50445577.jpg)
Title: Re: OMY for clown car
Post by: GuitarStv on September 16, 2016, 05:07:53 AM

So he wasted money, and a significant chunk of his life.  He helped to fuel demand for a useless environmentally damaging product.  All this for no benefit of any kind.

Not up to you to judge how someone spends their money or their life. Also, if you want to save the planet, the best decision you can possibly make to maximize your contribution to that goal is to not have children. That decision will reduce your carbon footprint several orders of magnitude (at least!) more than not buying _any_ car.

Why no hate for people who have children?

I didn't judge at all.  The quoted post was in response to "what's so bad if it turns out that he doesn't like the car".

I don't hate anyone for driving a car.  I'm not going to advise someone to do something that seems to be a bad descision though.
Title: Re: OMY for clown car
Post by: steviesterno on September 16, 2016, 05:41:24 AM
I'm for the guy. Part of my FIRE plans involve cool vehicles. Probably not 150k each unless I come into some serious money, but enough to have fun.

If I was in his shoes I would probably rent a Bently/RR for a day or 2 and see how it goes. If it's really still a big thrill or not. If so, buy it. If not, I would end up with a small fleet.

Defender 90/FJ/land cruiser all decked out for camping and overloading. Like climb across Utah sick
Tuned up rocket car: Older WRX, porche, s2000, mercedes, something fun and tiny and stupid fast. Nope. Shelby kit car
big comfy DD. A Tahoe or big old 4 door sedan. Mercedes, Lexus, whatever.
Classics: a vintage RR. like one that could sail across the atlantic



I'm not against him spending a small chunk of change on something he's in to. I plan to do the same. But I could have all of the above for something like $40k. They would all be newer/nicer if I was super rich.


let the guy have his fun, he's earned it.
Title: Re: OMY for clown car
Post by: SeaEhm on September 16, 2016, 05:49:49 PM

Maybe I'm just an unsophisticated dumbass, but I drove the sports car I bought ten years ago to work today. I enjoyed every second. I smiled all the way to work. I liked rowing the gears and feeling the wind in my hair.  It made me happy.  Would it make me happy if everything else in my life sucked?  Probably not, but my life was happier this morning than it was yesterday morning when I drove my other car to work.

I don't know what else to tell you.

I was in Vegas over summer and actually met up with Chris.  Being a car person , I needed a ride in his convertible sports car he talks so much about.

Here is a photo of us.  Who can honestly say we are NOT HAPPY in his car.

(http://media.caranddriver.com/ez/images/reviews/hot_lists/high_performance/features_classic_cars/most_fun_for_25_000_feature/most_fun_for_25_000/mostfun25k_feature_08_8/1605435-1-eng-US/mostfun25k_feature_08_8_gallery_image_large.jpg)
Title: Re: OMY for clown car
Post by: GuitarStv on September 20, 2016, 07:44:58 AM

Maybe I'm just an unsophisticated dumbass, but I drove the sports car I bought ten years ago to work today. I enjoyed every second. I smiled all the way to work. I liked rowing the gears and feeling the wind in my hair.  It made me happy.  Would it make me happy if everything else in my life sucked?  Probably not, but my life was happier this morning than it was yesterday morning when I drove my other car to work.

I don't know what else to tell you.

I was in Vegas over summer and actually met up with Chris.  Being a car person , I needed a ride in his convertible sports car he talks so much about.

Here is a photo of us.  Who can honestly say we are NOT HAPPY in his car.

(http://media.caranddriver.com/ez/images/reviews/hot_lists/high_performance/features_classic_cars/most_fun_for_25_000_feature/most_fun_for_25_000/mostfun25k_feature_08_8/1605435-1-eng-US/mostfun25k_feature_08_8_gallery_image_large.jpg)

Epicurus would argue that although a heroin addict will smile happily after shooting up, it doesn't make heroin a great plan for long term life fulfillment though.

:P
Title: Re: OMY for clown car
Post by: Scandium on September 20, 2016, 07:53:00 AM

Maybe I'm just an unsophisticated dumbass, but I drove the sports car I bought ten years ago to work today. I enjoyed every second. I smiled all the way to work. I liked rowing the gears and feeling the wind in my hair.  It made me happy.  Would it make me happy if everything else in my life sucked?  Probably not, but my life was happier this morning than it was yesterday morning when I drove my other car to work.

I don't know what else to tell you.

I was in Vegas over summer and actually met up with Chris.  Being a car person , I needed a ride in his convertible sports car he talks so much about.

Here is a photo of us.  Who can honestly say we are NOT HAPPY in his car.

(http://media.caranddriver.com/ez/images/reviews/hot_lists/high_performance/features_classic_cars/most_fun_for_25_000_feature/most_fun_for_25_000/mostfun25k_feature_08_8/1605435-1-eng-US/mostfun25k_feature_08_8_gallery_image_large.jpg)

Epicurus would argue that although a heroin addict will smile happily after shooting up, it doesn't make heroin a great plan for long term life fulfillment though.


Lol.
My dad got a convertible at one point. It was fun for a little while. Then it was just a car. Except noisier, colder and you got wet if it rained. Oh, it would accelerate up to the speed limit slightly quicker. But would the rush compare to skiing of a drop, or rafting down steep rapids? Not even close! In the world of legal/adrenaline highs cars are really low, and ironically also the most expensive method.

Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk

Title: Re: OMY for clown car
Post by: Chris22 on September 20, 2016, 08:58:22 AM
But I can have a hit almost anytime. I had a couple hits this morning in the way to work. Will have more on the way home. How many times can you "ski a drop" or hit the Rapids?
Title: Re: OMY for clown car
Post by: GuitarStv on September 20, 2016, 09:14:11 AM
But I can have a hit almost anytime. I had a couple hits this morning in the way to work. Will have more on the way home. How many times can you "ski a drop" or hit the Rapids?

The key to happiness then, is having an inexhaustible supply of heroin?
Title: Re: OMY for clown car
Post by: Chris22 on September 20, 2016, 10:00:27 AM
But I can have a hit almost anytime. I had a couple hits this morning in the way to work. Will have more on the way home. How many times can you "ski a drop" or hit the Rapids?

The key to happiness then, is having an inexhaustible supply of heroin?

Yup.
Title: Re: OMY for clown car
Post by: Scandium on September 20, 2016, 10:13:44 AM
But I can have a hit almost anytime. I had a couple hits this morning in the way to work. Will have more on the way home. How many times can you "ski a drop" or hit the Rapids?
Good for you. Maybe I'm old and jaded, and strung out on adrenaline too much. But accelerating up to the speed limit, or the car in front, a few seconds faster doesn't really do much for me anymore. It did when I was 19 though I'll give you that. The curse of getting old.
Title: Re: OMY for clown car
Post by: Chris22 on September 20, 2016, 10:44:29 AM
But I can have a hit almost anytime. I had a couple hits this morning in the way to work. Will have more on the way home. How many times can you "ski a drop" or hit the Rapids?
Good for you. Maybe I'm old and jaded, and strung out on adrenaline too much. But accelerating up to the speed limit, or the car in front, a few seconds faster doesn't really do much for me anymore. It did when I was 19 though I'll give you that. The curse of getting old.

And that's cool. I have no illusion that everyone enjoys driving. What annoys me to no end is some assclown telling me I don't, or that it isn't making me happy.  Seems like the height of arrogance to presume that about someone else in my opinion.
Title: Re: OMY for clown car
Post by: MilesTeg on September 20, 2016, 11:49:48 AM
But I can have a hit almost anytime. I had a couple hits this morning in the way to work. Will have more on the way home. How many times can you "ski a drop" or hit the Rapids?
Good for you. Maybe I'm old and jaded, and strung out on adrenaline too much. But accelerating up to the speed limit, or the car in front, a few seconds faster doesn't really do much for me anymore. It did when I was 19 though I'll give you that. The curse of getting old.

And that's cool. I have no illusion that everyone enjoys driving. What annoys me to no end is some assclown telling me I don't, or that it isn't making me happy.  Seems like the height of arrogance to presume that about someone else in my opinion.

This forum seems rife with folks who are utterly convinced their way is the One True Way (TM) and that anyone who differs is clearly just stupid.
Title: Re: OMY for clown car
Post by: Chris22 on September 20, 2016, 11:52:28 AM
But I can have a hit almost anytime. I had a couple hits this morning in the way to work. Will have more on the way home. How many times can you "ski a drop" or hit the Rapids?
Good for you. Maybe I'm old and jaded, and strung out on adrenaline too much. But accelerating up to the speed limit, or the car in front, a few seconds faster doesn't really do much for me anymore. It did when I was 19 though I'll give you that. The curse of getting old.

And that's cool. I have no illusion that everyone enjoys driving. What annoys me to no end is some assclown telling me I don't, or that it isn't making me happy.  Seems like the height of arrogance to presume that about someone else in my opinion.

This forum seems rife with folks who are utterly convinced their way is the One True Way (TM) and that anyone who differs is clearly just stupid.

Exactly. You'd be happier quitting your job to ride your bike to the library to check out books about how to tend your garden and if you don't believe that you're clearly ignorant.
Title: Re: OMY for clown car
Post by: Miss Piggy on September 20, 2016, 12:18:53 PM
This forum seems rife with folks who are utterly convinced their way is the One True Way (TM) and that anyone who differs is clearly just stupid.

Exactly. You'd be happier quitting your job to ride your bike to the library to check out books about how to tend your garden and if you don't believe that you're clearly ignorant.

I could not agree more. Some days, the judgmentalism on this site blows my mind. I'm guilty of it, too, in some of my comments.
Title: Re: OMY for clown car
Post by: MilesTeg on September 20, 2016, 01:42:07 PM
This forum seems rife with folks who are utterly convinced their way is the One True Way (TM) and that anyone who differs is clearly just stupid.

Exactly. You'd be happier quitting your job to ride your bike to the library to check out books about how to tend your garden and if you don't believe that you're clearly ignorant.

I could not agree more. Some days, the judgmentalism on this site blows my mind. I'm guilty of it, too, in some of my comments.

The core problem, in my oppinion, is the attempt to mix practical advice and moral advice. The "Clown Car" thing is a perfect example. It's extremely good practical, and objective advice to buy the smallest/most efficient car you can you suit most of your needs (and to supplement with rentals). But when you attempt to pivot to a moral or subjective argument such as "only idiots like cars!" (which is a common position here) people feed on that subjectivity and the result is the hardline attitudes and judgementalism that is highlighted in this thread.

It's one of MMMs failings. He gives some good advice, but like any extremist his good advice is often obscured by his and his True Believer's (TM) zealotry.
Title: Re: OMY for clown car
Post by: chesebert on September 20, 2016, 01:52:04 PM
So let's say you guys are right. 6 months after buying the car, he decides "this sucks, I'm not happier with this thing."  So what?  He paid cash for it, he sells it on, and he loses, say, 20%. He's a rich dude, he can afford the hit. It's not the end of the world. And he fulfilled a dream he decided was no longer a dream. This isn't a catastrophe. He isn't putting his financial well being and family's health at risk. His total downside is "well, gee, I didn't like that as much as I thought I did, I'll sell it."

So the fuck what?
He will most likely break even or make few K from the sale, assuming he didn't overpay initially. This holds true for most super cars (unless you got really unlucky and the car needed some service done during the holding period)
Title: Re: OMY for clown car
Post by: Making Cookies on September 20, 2016, 03:08:19 PM
I always thought supercars dropped in price rather quickly if they were used vs kept as museum pieces.
Title: Re: OMY for clown car
Post by: TheGrimSqueaker on September 20, 2016, 03:17:58 PM
I always thought supercars dropped in price rather quickly if they were used vs kept as museum pieces.

The guy's plan is to buy a one-year-old car (not a new one), drive it until the thrill is gone, and then sell it.
Title: Re: OMY for clown car
Post by: MgoSam on September 20, 2016, 03:47:37 PM
I always thought supercars dropped in price rather quickly if they were used vs kept as museum pieces.

The guy's plan is to buy a one-year-old car (not a new one), drive it until the thrill is gone, and then sell it.

I would be interesting to see how this turns out. Not the worst idea in the world imo.
Title: Re: OMY for clown car
Post by: JLee on September 21, 2016, 02:19:37 PM
I always thought supercars dropped in price rather quickly if they were used vs kept as museum pieces.

If you bought a 2002 Porsche 911 Turbo 5 years ago, you could probably sell it for within 5% of your purchase price today.  Same for a similar-year Dodge Viper.
Title: Re: OMY for clown car
Post by: GuitarStv on September 21, 2016, 03:26:00 PM
I always thought supercars dropped in price rather quickly if they were used vs kept as museum pieces.

If you bought a 2002 Porsche 911 Turbo 5 years ago, you could probably sell it for within 5% of your purchase price today.  Same for a similar-year Dodge Viper.

That may be true, but has little to do with the original post.  My understanding is that Bentleys tend to depreciate very quickly over the first three or four years (50% +).  The OP was planning on buying 1 year old, so it would be well before he can take advantage of the rapid depreciation period.  It would therefore be quite surprising if he could turn around and sell it five years later for the same price he purchased it at.
Title: Re: OMY for clown car
Post by: JLee on September 21, 2016, 03:58:58 PM
I always thought supercars dropped in price rather quickly if they were used vs kept as museum pieces.

If you bought a 2002 Porsche 911 Turbo 5 years ago, you could probably sell it for within 5% of your purchase price today.  Same for a similar-year Dodge Viper.

That may be true, but has little to do with the original post.  My understanding is that Bentleys tend to depreciate very quickly over the first three or four years (50% +).  The OP was planning on buying 1 year old, so it would be well before he can take advantage of the rapid depreciation period.  It would therefore be quite surprising if he could turn around and sell it five years later for the same price he purchased it at.

I agree, but with the specific clarification in my post, it had everything to do with the post I quoted. ;)
Title: Re: OMY for clown car
Post by: libertarian4321 on September 22, 2016, 11:18:02 AM
Quote
He has saved about $5MM

Y'all need to back away from the worship of MMM orthodoxy and start using your brains.

If the guy has $5M+, he can afford any damned car he want's and it's not a big deal.  A $250,000 Bentley purchase is NOT going to ruin his life.  He'll barely notice it.

When you have nothing, washing out baggies and condoms and reusing them might make sense.

But at some point, you realize you don't need to live on rice and beans and scrimp and save all the time.

A $1M net worth is a good cut off point.  At that point, feel free to "wastefully" use new baggies and condoms. 

Or even buy a (dare I say it) NEW car that isn't an econo box...

Title: Re: OMY for clown car
Post by: chesebert on September 22, 2016, 11:40:00 AM
Quote
He has saved about $5MM

Y'all need to back away from the worship of MMM orthodoxy and start using your brains.

If the guy has $5M+, he can afford any damned car he want's and it's not a big deal.  A $250,000 Bentley purchase is NOT going to ruin his life.  He'll barely notice it.

When you have nothing, washing out baggies and condoms and reusing them might make sense.

But at some point, you realize you don't need to live on rice and beans and scrimp and save all the time.

A $1M net worth is a good cut off point.  At that point, feel free to "wastefully" use new baggies and condoms. 

Or even buy a (dare I say it) NEW car that isn't an econo box...
why is that a good cut off point? Could be house rich.
Title: Re: OMY for clown car
Post by: chesebert on September 22, 2016, 11:59:05 AM
Might be relevant to OP

http://jalopnik.com/if-i-buy-a-13-year-old-bentley-arnage-will-it-destroy-1784523872

"For example: the most recent repair, reportedly done at wholesale cost, totaled $19,409.47. The 30,000 mile service which also included new rear brake pads and rotors was $6,177.26. Tires cost $2,500, and one single oil change service plus drive belt replacement was $796.25.

And then you have my favorite service: On June 20, 2007, the Bentley dealer in San Diego, California, replaced the turn signal switch in this particular Arnage. The cost of this repair: $819.65."
Title: Re: OMY for clown car
Post by: SnackDog on September 22, 2016, 12:11:36 PM
That does seem pricey for a turn stalk. Perhaps it is billet aluminum.

But I wouldn't have thought anyone driving a Bentley needs to signal their intentions to anyone else. It's none of their damn business which way you are going when you own the road!
Title: Re: OMY for clown car
Post by: Making Cookies on September 22, 2016, 12:17:17 PM
Don't take Jalopnik too seriously. I looked at Rock Auto and the price for brake pads for a Bentley was similar to any other car. I suspect that if you rely on a Bentley dealers or supercar specific mechanics then you'll pay those kinds of prices quoted by Jalopnik.

If you want to source your own parts (i.e. aftermarket parts) and rely on an independent import mechanic, you can get things done for reasonable prices relative to a Mercedes at the same independent mechanic.

I've heard plenty of stories of people relying on mainstream dealers for simple repairs and getting sticker shock. My local Honda dealer is like this. I can buy OEM parts from a Honda dealer on the internet for prices similar to quality aftermarket prices at a FLAPS (friendly local auto parts store). Online OEM prices are roughly half what my local dealer charges - though during the Great Recession the local dealer was temporarily affordable just to keep the lights on. 

If the guy is a multi-millionaire then I don't really think he is going to worry about the cost of oil changes anywhere he has the car serviced. ;)
Title: Re: OMY for clown car
Post by: GuitarStv on September 22, 2016, 12:21:22 PM
Is there enough aftermarket sales to really find Bentley specific stuff?  I get that for a mass produced car you'll find plenty of aftermarket stuff, but wouldn't think that there would be enough market to find the same for luxury cars.
Title: Re: OMY for clown car
Post by: Making Cookies on September 22, 2016, 12:25:57 PM
Dunno but you can buy maintenance items from Rock Auto and thus I think other places too.

You might need to build a relationship with a Bentley shop even long distance for the more arcane stuff. These shops often part out cars that were wrecked or otherwise damaged. I do that with a couple of my antique vehicles. I can buy new aftermarket for some things and used but clean for other things.

And there would likely be some things that he'd need to buy OEM new from a dealer. I'd want to minimize the number of things I was paying full retail on.
Title: Re: OMY for clown car
Post by: JLee on September 22, 2016, 12:43:50 PM
That does seem pricey for a turn stalk. Perhaps it is billet aluminum.

But I wouldn't have thought anyone driving a Bentley needs to signal their intentions to anyone else. It's none of their damn business which way you are going when you own the road!

The turn signal stalk for my 25yo MR2 is over $100 from Toyota. :(

Some things are surprisingly expensive.
Title: Re: OMY for clown car
Post by: Chris22 on September 22, 2016, 01:12:14 PM
Might be relevant to OP

http://jalopnik.com/if-i-buy-a-13-year-old-bentley-arnage-will-it-destroy-1784523872

"For example: the most recent repair, reportedly done at wholesale cost, totaled $19,409.47. The 30,000 mile service which also included new rear brake pads and rotors was $6,177.26. Tires cost $2,500, and one single oil change service plus drive belt replacement was $796.25.

And then you have my favorite service: On June 20, 2007, the Bentley dealer in San Diego, California, replaced the turn signal switch in this particular Arnage. The cost of this repair: $819.65."

The Arnage is from before VW acquired Bentley, and will have many many more bespoke parts. A current Bentley will have many more inconsequential shared parts (i.e., turn signal stalk) and therefore will be much cheaper to run.
Title: Re: OMY for clown car
Post by: MilesTeg on September 22, 2016, 04:44:27 PM
That does seem pricey for a turn stalk. Perhaps it is billet aluminum.

But I wouldn't have thought anyone driving a Bentley needs to signal their intentions to anyone else. It's none of their damn business which way you are going when you own the road!

The turn signal stalk for my 25yo MR2 is over $100 from Toyota. :(

Some things are surprisingly expensive.

Not that there isn't gouging going on, but one of the (very few) legit reasons that some car parts are expensive is because they have to be made years or decades in advance and stored for all that time. Typically to fulfill legal obligations (and customer expectations) a production run of a vehicle includes enough spare parts to produce 50% more full vehicles.

This is a big factor for any part of a car that is specific to a particular model (or a few models). For example, a signal stalk. Toyota probably hasn't made that particular part for ~2 decades, and your particular item has probably been warehoused (along with thousands of others) most of that time.

This is why things like 3-D printing can really made a difference. If Toyota could just pull up the printing definition for your signal stalk and print a new one up today to sell you instead of having to store them for decades things could be a lot cheaper.
Title: Re: OMY for clown car
Post by: JLee on September 22, 2016, 05:13:30 PM
That does seem pricey for a turn stalk. Perhaps it is billet aluminum.

But I wouldn't have thought anyone driving a Bentley needs to signal their intentions to anyone else. It's none of their damn business which way you are going when you own the road!

The turn signal stalk for my 25yo MR2 is over $100 from Toyota. :(

Some things are surprisingly expensive.

Not that there isn't gouging going on, but one of the (very few) legit reasons that some car parts are expensive is because they have to be made years or decades in advance and stored for all that time. Typically to fulfill legal obligations (and customer expectations) a production run of a vehicle includes enough spare parts to produce 50% more full vehicles.

This is a big factor for any part of a car that is specific to a particular model (or a few models). For example, a signal stalk. Toyota probably hasn't made that particular part for ~2 decades, and your particular item has probably been warehoused (along with thousands of others) most of that time.

This is why things like 3-D printing can really made a difference. If Toyota could just pull up the printing definition for your signal stalk and print a new one up today to sell you instead of having to store them for decades things could be a lot cheaper.

Yep.  And we could also continue to get parts that are now unavailable..at least some types of parts, anyway.  I ordered a window regulator a few weeks ago and it was one of three remaining in the country.
Title: Re: OMY for clown car
Post by: trek240 on September 23, 2016, 10:42:19 AM

And what if my child will cure cancer and/or invention infinite clean fuel?


I can guarantee 100% that your kid won't. 99.999999% of people will never achieve anything of consequence, thinking that your kid will be the exception is the epitome of arrogance.
Title: Re: OMY for clown car
Post by: Scandium on September 23, 2016, 10:55:23 AM

And what if my child will cure cancer and/or invention infinite clean fuel?


I can guarantee 100% that your kid won't. 99.999999% of people will never achieve anything of consequence, thinking that your kid will be the exception is the epitome of arrogance.
Really? 100%? How can you be sure? Someone has to do it.. Disregarding curing cancer, you really think my child doing one single act that's good for the world in his lifetime is 100% unlikely?

FYI I'm not really arrogant. I think the planet is fucked anyway so there is no point caring. I could pollute as hard as I can my whole life, and it would hardly compare to the output from a single cargo ship in a month.
Title: Re: OMY for clown car
Post by: trek240 on September 23, 2016, 10:58:47 AM
That does seem pricey for a turn stalk. Perhaps it is billet aluminum.

But I wouldn't have thought anyone driving a Bentley needs to signal their intentions to anyone else. It's none of their damn business which way you are going when you own the road!

That's why it needed replacing, it was seized from having never been used
Title: Re: OMY for clown car
Post by: trek240 on September 23, 2016, 11:09:44 AM

And what if my child will cure cancer and/or invention infinite clean fuel?


I can guarantee 100% that your kid won't. 99.999999% of people will never achieve anything of consequence, thinking that your kid will be the exception is the epitome of arrogance.
Really? 100%? How can you be sure? Someone has to do it.. Disregarding curing cancer, you really think my child doing one single act that's good for the world in his lifetime is 100% unlikely?

FYI I'm not really arrogant. I think the planet is fucked anyway so there is no point caring. I could pollute as hard as I can my whole life, and it would hardly compare to the output from a single cargo ship in a month.

When I say of consequence I mean an act that affects a large percentage of the population. There's really only a handful of people in each generation that does this. You have a better chance of striking it rich in the lottery, or getting struck by lightning.
Title: Re: OMY for clown car
Post by: Scandium on September 23, 2016, 11:14:00 AM

And what if my child will cure cancer and/or invention infinite clean fuel?


I can guarantee 100% that your kid won't. 99.999999% of people will never achieve anything of consequence, thinking that your kid will be the exception is the epitome of arrogance.
Really? 100%? How can you be sure? Someone has to do it.. Disregarding curing cancer, you really think my child doing one single act that's good for the world in his lifetime is 100% unlikely?

FYI I'm not really arrogant. I think the planet is fucked anyway so there is no point caring. I could pollute as hard as I can my whole life, and it would hardly compare to the output from a single cargo ship in a month.

When I say of consequence I mean an act that affects a large percentage of the population. There's really only a handful of people in each generation that does this. You have a better chance of striking it rich in the lottery, or getting struck by lightning.
But why does it have to affect such a large part of the population? If my child has a net benefit on the life or environment for a small number of people or a limited area isn't that still good? Any net benefit is worth it (if you believe the planet can be saved that is..)

And anyway someone has to be that one person, you can't be sure who it'll be beforehand.
Title: Re: OMY for clown car
Post by: MBot on September 24, 2016, 06:50:52 AM
Thanks for bringing the comedy  to this wall of shame SnackDog. This sounds like it will be hilarious.

 The guy's  got 5 mil and worked his way up, and he's working extra to be in an especially good place? Pretty much the definition of comedy as opposed to tragedy.

I hear what's been said many times through the thread about its wastefulness, and it would be absurd to me to do this. But to each their own. It is pretty funny!
Title: Re: OMY for clown car
Post by: Metric Mouse on September 24, 2016, 09:29:16 PM
But I can have a hit almost anytime. I had a couple hits this morning in the way to work. Will have more on the way home. How many times can you "ski a drop" or hit the Rapids?
Good for you. Maybe I'm old and jaded, and strung out on adrenaline too much. But accelerating up to the speed limit, or the car in front, a few seconds faster doesn't really do much for me anymore. It did when I was 19 though I'll give you that. The curse of getting old.

And that's cool. I have no illusion that everyone enjoys driving. What annoys me to no end is some assclown telling me I don't, or that it isn't making me happy.  Seems like the height of arrogance to presume that about someone else in my opinion.

This forum seems rife with folks who are utterly convinced their way is the One True Way (TM) and that anyone who differs is clearly just stupid.

Exactly. You'd be happier quitting your job to ride your bike to the library to check out books about how to tend your garden and if you don't believe that you're clearly ignorant.

 Better have got that bicycle off of craigslist.
Title: Re: OMY for clown car
Post by: GuitarStv on September 25, 2016, 03:16:25 PM
But I can have a hit almost anytime. I had a couple hits this morning in the way to work. Will have more on the way home. How many times can you "ski a drop" or hit the Rapids?
Good for you. Maybe I'm old and jaded, and strung out on adrenaline too much. But accelerating up to the speed limit, or the car in front, a few seconds faster doesn't really do much for me anymore. It did when I was 19 though I'll give you that. The curse of getting old.

And that's cool. I have no illusion that everyone enjoys driving. What annoys me to no end is some assclown telling me I don't, or that it isn't making me happy.  Seems like the height of arrogance to presume that about someone else in my opinion.

This forum seems rife with folks who are utterly convinced their way is the One True Way (TM) and that anyone who differs is clearly just stupid.

Exactly. You'd be happier quitting your job to ride your bike to the library to check out books about how to tend your garden and if you don't believe that you're clearly ignorant.

 Better have got that bicycle off of craigslist.

Nah.  You need to dig the ore, smelt it, roll your own tubes, and the DIY the frame.  (And I hope you planted that rubber tree a few years ago or you'll be waiting for tubes and tires.)  Craigslist is for consumerist suckers.
Title: Re: OMY for clown car
Post by: Shalamar on September 25, 2016, 03:42:56 PM
Quote
if he has only $5MM saved

*Looks at my RRSP balance*
*Cries*
Title: Re: OMY for clown car
Post by: Metric Mouse on September 25, 2016, 07:47:10 PM

Nah.  You need to dig the ore, smelt it, roll your own tubes, and the DIY the frame.  (And I hope you planted that rubber tree a few years ago or you'll be waiting for tubes and tires.)  Craigslist is for consumerist suckers.

Those open-pit mines are so bad for the environment, and factories are more efficient with their energy usage than individual forges and machine shops. It's a lose-lose for the planet and the rider to build a bike from scratch when one can buy a used one for cheap.
Title: Re: OMY for clown car
Post by: GuitarStv on September 26, 2016, 05:45:43 AM

Nah.  You need to dig the ore, smelt it, roll your own tubes, and the DIY the frame.  (And I hope you planted that rubber tree a few years ago or you'll be waiting for tubes and tires.)  Craigslist is for consumerist suckers.

Those open-pit mines are so bad for the environment, and factories are more efficient with their energy usage than individual forges and machine shops. It's a lose-lose for the planet and the rider to build a bike from scratch when one can buy a used one for cheap.

You just sound complainy pants.

That's why after you finish mining, you replace each grain of sand in the correct location after consulting your records.  Of course your forge is geothermal, solar powered, and locally sourced organic gluten free free range.
Title: Re: OMY for clown car
Post by: Making Cookies on September 26, 2016, 08:32:08 AM
That's why after you finish mining, you replace each grain of sand in the correct location after consulting your records.  Of course your forge is geothermal, solar powered, and locally sourced organic gluten free free range.

"Hey man! I got a locally sourced, organic gluten free / free-range bicycle! Now get off my stones!" j/k
Title: Re: OMY for clown car
Post by: Metric Mouse on September 26, 2016, 01:50:23 PM

Nah.  You need to dig the ore, smelt it, roll your own tubes, and the DIY the frame.  (And I hope you planted that rubber tree a few years ago or you'll be waiting for tubes and tires.)  Craigslist is for consumerist suckers.

Those open-pit mines are so bad for the environment, and factories are more efficient with their energy usage than individual forges and machine shops. It's a lose-lose for the planet and the rider to build a bike from scratch when one can buy a used one for cheap.

You just sound complainy pants.

That's why after you finish mining, you replace each grain of sand in the correct location after consulting your records.  Of course your forge is geothermal, solar powered, and locally sourced organic gluten free free range.

Facepunch accepted. :D
Title: Re: OMY for clown car
Post by: SeaEhm on September 26, 2016, 07:09:10 PM

Nah.  You need to dig the ore, smelt it, roll your own tubes, and the DIY the frame.  (And I hope you planted that rubber tree a few years ago or you'll be waiting for tubes and tires.)  Craigslist is for consumerist suckers.

Those open-pit mines are so bad for the environment, and factories are more efficient with their energy usage than individual forges and machine shops. It's a lose-lose for the planet and the rider to build a bike from scratch when one can buy a used one for cheap.

You just sound complainy pants.

That's why after you finish mining, you replace each grain of sand in the correct location after consulting your records.  Of course your forge is geothermal, solar powered, and locally sourced organic gluten free free range.

exactly

These planet polluters don't understand environmental mitigation

When will they ever learn?
Title: Re: OMY for clown car
Post by: Cycling Stache on September 27, 2016, 04:27:19 AM
Is this the time to mention that Mr. Money Mustache just bought a brand new car?  Check his latest tweet!

True, it's an electric car, but brand new, 2016 model.  I feel like there are going to be a few crushed souls on this forum!  :)
Title: Re: OMY for clown car
Post by: chesebert on September 27, 2016, 10:55:45 AM
It's all relative. MMM has a 7+ figure networth, makes 4-500k a year and runs a successful blog that's probably worth a few mil (if not more) if sold. The car only costs 30k. This just shows MMM principles are only really applicable to upper middle class people. If you are lower middle class or below, you won't make enough money to live comfortably and save aggressively at the same time. If you are in the top 1% then you can pretty much do whatever you want with your money within reason (like buying a new luxury car every few years) with minimal impact on your financial health.

Title: Re: OMY for clown car
Post by: slugline on September 27, 2016, 12:23:33 PM
In a followup tweet, MMM claims that he got the Leaf for around $15K net, owing to Nissan and tax rebates. Compared to the American average MMM barely drives, so it still looks like an expensive outlay. But I'm sure he'll generate some blog content from the experience.
Title: Re: OMY for clown car
Post by: mwulff on September 28, 2016, 12:20:37 AM
I guess MMM has the right to spend his excess money in any way he pleases. I for one am happy that he bought an electric car and I presume he is going to drive that thing into the ground.

Things like 'don't drive a clown car' are really great rules when working towards FI, if you are FI and a car purchase doesn't change that then why not treat yourself?

Especially if it is more environmentally friendly, can be charged from PV systems for free.


Title: Re: OMY for clown car
Post by: Threshkin on September 29, 2016, 04:30:53 PM
Why the hell not? There's neither shame nor comedy in someone carefully thinking through their priorities and working to afford something they love. Good for him.

+1 to this and Nederstash's comment.

IMO the MMM philosophy is to not waste money on mindless spending so you have money to spend on what you really want.  He has more than enough money to FIRE.  It is his choice to go OMY and buy something he really wants with only half of the extra money saved.  Good for him!

MMM is not about saving money at all costs.  It is about using money wisely.
Title: Re: OMY for clown car
Post by: GuitarStv on September 29, 2016, 05:42:35 PM
Why the hell not? There's neither shame nor comedy in someone carefully thinking through their priorities and working to afford something they love. Good for him.

+1 to this and Nederstash's comment.

IMO the MMM philosophy is to not waste money on mindless spending so you have money to spend on what you really want.  He has more than enough money to FIRE.  It is his choice to go OMY and buy something he really wants with only half of the extra money saved.  Good for him!

MMM is not about saving money at all costs.  It is about using money wisely.

Yep.

That's why much of the discussion in this thread revolved around determining if purchase of a luxury car can ever really be called 'wise'.
Title: Re: OMY for clown car
Post by: Metric Mouse on October 04, 2016, 01:50:14 AM
In a followup tweet, MMM claims that he got the Leaf for around $15K net, owing to Nissan and tax rebates. Compared to the American average MMM barely drives, so it still looks like an expensive outlay. But I'm sure he'll generate some blog content from the experience.

And, since he mentions it in his blog, he no longer has to factor it into his yearly spending report, either.
Title: Re: OMY for clown car
Post by: Ralph2 on October 11, 2016, 09:32:23 PM
So let's say you guys are right. 6 months after buying the car, he decides "this sucks, I'm not happier with this thing."  So what?  He paid cash for it, he sells it on, and he loses, say, 20%. He's a rich dude, he can afford the hit. It's not the end of the world. And he fulfilled a dream he decided was no longer a dream. This isn't a catastrophe. He isn't putting his financial well being and family's health at risk. His total downside is "well, gee, I didn't like that as much as I thought I did, I'll sell it."

So the fuck what?

So he wasted money, and a significant chunk of his life.  He helped to fuel demand for a useless environmentally damaging product.  All this for no benefit of any kind.

He is buying a second hand car that is already made, damage was done by the first owner. Better than buying new himself.
Him contributing would allowing the car to be scrapped after the first year.
Title: Re: OMY for clown car
Post by: GuitarStv on October 12, 2016, 06:22:10 AM
So let's say you guys are right. 6 months after buying the car, he decides "this sucks, I'm not happier with this thing."  So what?  He paid cash for it, he sells it on, and he loses, say, 20%. He's a rich dude, he can afford the hit. It's not the end of the world. And he fulfilled a dream he decided was no longer a dream. This isn't a catastrophe. He isn't putting his financial well being and family's health at risk. His total downside is "well, gee, I didn't like that as much as I thought I did, I'll sell it."

So the fuck what?

So he wasted money, and a significant chunk of his life.  He helped to fuel demand for a useless environmentally damaging product.  All this for no benefit of any kind.

He is buying a second hand car that is already made, damage was done by the first owner. Better than buying new himself.
Him contributing would allowing the car to be scrapped after the first year.

While buying used is certainly better than buying new, the only way to reduce demand for useless shit is to avoid buying it entirely.
Title: Re: OMY for clown car
Post by: MilesTeg on October 12, 2016, 11:32:48 AM
I guess MMM has the right to spend his excess money in any way he pleases. I for one am happy that he bought an electric car and I presume he is going to drive that thing into the ground.

Things like 'don't drive a clown car' are really great rules when working towards FI, if you are FI and a car purchase doesn't change that then why not treat yourself?

Especially if it is more environmentally friendly, can be charged from PV systems for free.

One problem is that even an EV is very bad for the environment. Just because it has zero emissions does not mean it did not take considerable resources and cause considerable pollution for its manufacture, maintenance, transport, sale, marketing, etc. And just because you can charge it "for free" from a solar array doesn't mean that solar array didn't also take considerable resources and create considerable pollution during its creation.

If your argument against cars for "fun" is environmental, you have no good options. You only have bad options, and worse options. EVs are a considerable improvement, but they are no where near "guilt free" cars when it comes to caring for the environment.
Title: Re: OMY for clown car
Post by: mwulff on October 16, 2016, 04:12:39 AM
I guess MMM has the right to spend his excess money in any way he pleases. I for one am happy that he bought an electric car and I presume he is going to drive that thing into the ground.

Things like 'don't drive a clown car' are really great rules when working towards FI, if you are FI and a car purchase doesn't change that then why not treat yourself?

Especially if it is more environmentally friendly, can be charged from PV systems for free.

One problem is that even an EV is very bad for the environment. Just because it has zero emissions does not mean it did not take considerable resources and cause considerable pollution for its manufacture, maintenance, transport, sale, marketing, etc. And just because you can charge it "for free" from a solar array doesn't mean that solar array didn't also take considerable resources and create considerable pollution during its creation.

If your argument against cars for "fun" is environmental, you have no good options. You only have bad options, and worse options. EVs are a considerable improvement, but they are no where near "guilt free" cars when it comes to caring for the environment.

No car is guilt-free. No house is guilt free, nothing you can buy in a supermarket is guilt-free. We have an impact on this planet if we live on it. It is almost impossible to avoid some sort of environmental impact no matter what you do.

If we wish to live in a world with electricity, warm water and transportation then there will be waste no matter what we do.

And as you said the EV is probably the best choice right now when it comes to transportation. If you gave up transportation that would be better, but even a bicycle requires energy to manufacture.

However with proper recycling an EV represents the current "state of the art" when it comes to minimal impact on the world. Even accounting for battery production and lithium extraction.

Current PV systems are estimated to be net-energy/co2 positive after 3 years of service. So there is still 22-27 years of life in the panels where they produce energy for free. Overall PV and wind-energy er net-energy positive and hence very good for the environment.

If you live in a place where your PV power offsets coal power then the math looks even better.

And since an EV allows you to utilize your PV system to a much higher degree this becomes even more attractive for both the wallet and the environment. Overall a win-win type scenario.
Title: Re: OMY for clown car
Post by: SeaEhm on October 16, 2016, 09:58:40 AM
Is this thread going towards Naked and Afraid lovers who watch the show to gain life skills in order to live Naked and Unafraid off the land with minimal impact?
Title: Re: OMY for clown car
Post by: mwulff on October 16, 2016, 11:36:10 PM
Is this thread going towards Naked and Afraid lovers who watch the show to gain life skills in order to live Naked and Unafraid off the land with minimal impact?

I'll stick to the make-reasonably-choices-while-still-living-a-regular life camp :)
Title: Re: OMY for clown car
Post by: SnackDog on October 17, 2016, 12:46:53 PM
I guess you could argue that some exotic vehicles are driven so few miles per year that they have negligible environmental impact. Many are also hand-made, which boosts employment and furthers other socialist/communist causes.
Title: Re: OMY for clown car
Post by: Metric Mouse on October 17, 2016, 07:32:43 PM
I guess you could argue that some exotic vehicles are driven so few miles per year that they have negligible environmental impact. Many are also hand-made, which boosts employment and furthers other socialist/communist causes.

http://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/welcome-to-the-forum/bamboo-bicycles/msg1257324/#msg1257324

Bamboo bicycles, anyone?
Title: Re: OMY for clown car
Post by: SnackDog on October 18, 2016, 04:19:20 AM
I rode one in Argentina. No thanks!
Title: Re: OMY for clown car
Post by: Making Cookies on October 18, 2016, 07:19:35 AM
Do bamboo bikes creak? I always imagined they would.
Title: Re: OMY for clown car
Post by: Cycling Stache on October 19, 2016, 07:12:49 AM
I'm about to work OMY in order to by a $150k toaster, so I can't judge him. And I don't want any assclown in here to tell me I don't enjoy toasting. I love toasting the fuck out of things.

As long as you make your own bread, it's fine.
Title: Re: OMY for clown car
Post by: SnackDog on October 19, 2016, 08:29:59 AM
The Japanese have a new $300 steam toaster which is apparently all the rage. Sold out and not available to all you North American spendypants.
Title: Re: OMY for clown car
Post by: TheGrimSqueaker on October 19, 2016, 09:16:19 AM
The Japanese have a new $300 steam toaster which is apparently all the rage. Sold out and not available to all you North American spendypants.
Steam toasters are unacceptable: to enjoy toast in its proper glory you must prepare it British-style, toasted only on one side by a tame fire-breathing dragon, and it must be brought to you on a tray by an indentured servant, preferably of the house elf persuasion. This of course requires OMY.
Title: Re: OMY for clown car
Post by: Metric Mouse on October 19, 2016, 03:50:58 PM
I'm about to work OMY in order to by a $150k toaster, so I can't judge him. And I don't want any assclown in here to tell me I don't enjoy toasting. I love toasting the fuck out of things.

As long as you make your own bread, it's fine.

If toast is one's joy, it is wise to spend time enjoying it.