Author Topic: NYTimes: The Hunt  (Read 9215 times)

chicagomeg

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NYTimes: The Hunt
« on: January 30, 2020, 09:33:52 AM »
This is one of my favorite features on the NYTimes because I'm a total financial voyeur AND it gives me a lot of satisfaction about my $1400 studio with a 20 minute commute here in Chicago. The gist is that it's basically house hunters in article form, with a mix of renters and buyers. The prices always seem pretty high to me, but today's article is a new level of crazy.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/01/29/realestate/30hunt-limongello.html?action=click&module=Editors%20Picks&pgtype=Homepage

The apartment they ended up picking is a 3 bedroom in Brooklyn that costs $10,000 a month. This is the part where my head exploded:

"They were impressed that the dryer was vented. “That’s pretty rare for a rental,” said Mrs. Limongello, who knew that apartment dryers don’t always work well. “My ears perked up when I heard that. My clothes will actually dry the same day I put them in the dryer, instead of tomorrow.”

The kitchen also has something uncommon: a recirculating range hood..."

If I'm paying $10k a month in rent and I still have to worry about my dryer working, something is wrong. Fascinating. Gonna happily pay my pittance (by comparison) in rent on Saturday and then do a load of free laundry in my basement with my dryer that works like a charm (like a dryer!!!).

Xlar

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Re: NYTimes: The Hunt
« Reply #1 on: January 30, 2020, 10:06:18 AM »
That is crazy, thank you for sharing! Their view on appliances blows my mind,lol. Plus I like how they start with a budget of $8k per month and end up way over that at $10k!

jinga nation

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Re: NYTimes: The Hunt
« Reply #2 on: January 30, 2020, 12:23:20 PM »
that's whacko. I pay a tad bit under $10k for annual mortgage payments. For a 4 bed, 2 bath, 2 car garage. But MCOL city in FL, skeeters, beaches, sun-drenched bodies... yeah it's boring compared to Brooklyn.

Cellista

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Re: NYTimes: The Hunt
« Reply #3 on: January 30, 2020, 01:21:42 PM »
I think the $8,000 limit was for the couple's share. The article says the parents will pay 1/3 of the rent.

Still, I don't know how people do it.  They're not building any equity.


zolotiyeruki

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Re: NYTimes: The Hunt
« Reply #4 on: January 30, 2020, 01:41:29 PM »
Wow, that is something else.  $10k per month?  Gee, no wonder people want to move out to the burbs.

No vent on the dryer?  Sounds like a heat pump dryer. Taking overnight shouldn't actually happen, unless the heat exchanger is horribly clogged from lack of maintenance.

It sounds like they're paying $3k/month for a slightly better layout vs one of the alternatives.  Wow.  They're paying more for a marginal usability improvement than I pay for my entire 5/3.5/3 house on a quarter acre.

CodingHare

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Re: NYTimes: The Hunt
« Reply #5 on: January 30, 2020, 04:49:39 PM »
$10,000 a month?. Now that puts my $2k rent for a 4 bedroom house in Seattle into perspective!

ohsnap

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Re: NYTimes: The Hunt
« Reply #6 on: January 30, 2020, 04:54:33 PM »
...Plus I like how they start with a budget of $8k per month and end up way over that at $10k!
I know someone who was recently looking for a rental with a max budget of $5k/month (which in itself blew my mind).  They moved into one for $5800/month. I don't think budget means what some people think it does...

dignam

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Re: NYTimes: The Hunt
« Reply #7 on: January 31, 2020, 06:44:19 AM »
Oh man I must be living in luxury with my vented dryer and *gasp* attached garage!  $1300/mo (includes property taxes, which are VERY high compared to other states).  Near a city that has everything I need, and pretty good night life/events year-round.  Just crummy weather for 4.5 months a year.

$10k PER MONTH!?

YttriumNitrate

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Re: NYTimes: The Hunt
« Reply #8 on: January 31, 2020, 07:20:56 AM »
Perhaps I'm alone on this, but the $4k a month for a 2-bedroom so that Ms. Cox could live alone seemed like the most outrageous part of the article. Of course, then I was curious as to how much a 30-year old who "manages construction for a real estate developer" makes so they could afford that. Payscale says $57-150k, so there must be more to the story.

The story lists Ms. Cox's parents names and location, and there just so happens that there's a Malcolm Cox in the Greater Philadelphia of the appropriate age who happens to be the former Dean of Harvard Medical School. And now the story makes sense to me, but I suspect the statement the "Mrs. Limongello’s parents.... contribute about a third of the rent" is an understatement.
« Last Edit: January 31, 2020, 07:25:31 AM by YttriumNitrate »

jinga nation

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Re: NYTimes: The Hunt
« Reply #9 on: January 31, 2020, 07:33:59 AM »
Perhaps I'm alone on this, but the $4k a month for a 2-bedroom so that Ms. Cox could live alone seemed like the most outrageous part of the article. Of course, then I was curious as to how much a 30-year old who "manages construction for a real estate developer" makes so they could afford that. Payscale says $57-150k, so there must be more to the story.

The story lists Ms. Cox's parents names and location, and there just so happens that there's a Malcolm Cox in the Greater Philadelphia of the appropriate age who happens to be the former Dean of Harvard Medical School. And now the story makes sense to me, but I suspect the statement the "Mrs. Limongello’s parents.... contribute about a third of the rent" is an understatement.

It's crazy that a few websearches on public info could lead to home addresses... and nefarious things could be done by deranged individuals. One shouldn't give real names to reporters/writers, and publishers should use fake names in such articles.

AMandM

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Re: NYTimes: The Hunt
« Reply #10 on: January 31, 2020, 08:28:14 AM »
Their rent is equal to the gross income at the 90th percentile of US workers.

chicagomeg

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Re: NYTimes: The Hunt
« Reply #11 on: January 31, 2020, 10:32:35 AM »
Perhaps I'm alone on this, but the $4k a month for a 2-bedroom so that Ms. Cox could live alone seemed like the most outrageous part of the article. Of course, then I was curious as to how much a 30-year old who "manages construction for a real estate developer" makes so they could afford that. Payscale says $57-150k, so there must be more to the story.


Perhaps I'm alone on this, but the $4k a month for a 2-bedroom so that Ms. Cox could live alone seemed like the most outrageous part of the article. Of course, then I was curious as to how much a 30-year old who "manages construction for a real estate developer" makes so they could afford that. Payscale says $57-150k, so there must be more to the story.

The story lists Ms. Cox's parents names and location, and there just so happens that there's a Malcolm Cox in the Greater Philadelphia of the appropriate age who happens to be the former Dean of Harvard Medical School. And now the story makes sense to me, but I suspect the statement the "Mrs. Limongello’s parents.... contribute about a third of the rent" is an understatement.

It's crazy that a few websearches on public info could lead to home addresses... and nefarious things could be done by deranged individuals. One shouldn't give real names to reporters/writers, and publishers should use fake names in such articles.

Ah yes, I also noticed both of these things... I went down a whole rabbit hole about these people because she also said he moved in "soon after they met"...found them in another article about online dating success stories that said they got engaged after 10 months. I assumed that mom & dad were paying for her lifestyle once I read that line at the end that her dad was a physician. Although it's also possible that the daughter of the dean of HMS just got a really sweet first job after college & is very well paid for what she does.

My general impression is that this woman wants to share her whole personal life to the internet so I don't feel too bad being judgy about it.

Just Joe

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Re: NYTimes: The Hunt
« Reply #12 on: January 31, 2020, 10:37:40 AM »
$10K a month would buy an estate here in flyover country!

https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/867-N-Fox-Hunter-Rd-Fayetteville-AR-72701/90977438_zpid/

That's an estimated $4500 a month...

jinga nation

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Re: NYTimes: The Hunt
« Reply #13 on: January 31, 2020, 03:24:18 PM »
$10K a month would buy an estate here in flyover country!

https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/867-N-Fox-Hunter-Rd-Fayetteville-AR-72701/90977438_zpid/

That's an estimated $4500 a month...

I'd rather rent a massive beach apartment. I'm sure that would attract a certain class of people who'd want to be my "friends". Of course, I'm talking about lonely single north-eartern snowbirds, divorced with loads of money.

https://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-detail/19820-Gulf-Blvd-Apt-501_Indian-Shores_FL_33785_M52946-60774#photo6

obstinate

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Re: NYTimes: The Hunt
« Reply #14 on: February 02, 2020, 09:55:18 PM »
I don't really think living in Dumbo or Bheights is efficient, but this rent is not crazy for that part of town. And even within that pricey part of town, they decided to pick a pricey way to live: newly remodeled or built highrise living.

But, there are a lot of people in NY who can afford it, especially with the 'rents paying a third. Hubby is a senior director of product management a small (<$1B market cap) tech company. Depending on what "senior" and "director" mean (different at every company) this could be a role that commands 300k-1M+ in total comp. And let's not forget that a lot of people live closer to the edge than us Mustachians. IMO, it would not be terribly unusual to see a New York couple that is netting $200k renting a place like this.

I will say that although I am from time to time jealous of the low housing prices some of y'all tout in flyover country or that weird thing sticking off our southeast corner, it is missing the point somewhat. Living in NYC or the Bay is, for some, an investment. In my experience, it is an investment that pays absurd returns, to those who are skilled and lucky. Of course, there are people pulling down $500k a year in Miami, but nothing close to as many as in NYC. The 85%ile HHI here is greater than the 95%ile in Miami. That's a big part of why it costs so much to live here. If you can figure out how to spend that money efficiently it's highly worth the added cost of housing.
« Last Edit: February 02, 2020, 10:00:13 PM by obstinate »

Just Joe

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Re: NYTimes: The Hunt
« Reply #15 on: February 03, 2020, 09:15:58 AM »
I understand Obstinate what you are saying about NYC and I've visited NYC three times now in my life. Each time was interesting and do I look forward to visiting again in the future.

As for daily life - I'd rather live anywhere else than NYC - or similar very large cities. I never really relaxed in NYC or Chicago or similar.

Here in flyover country I can own a bigger patch of ground. Easy commute (10 mins). Easy shopping (10 mins). Easy fun (step out the door or 10 mins drive to town or 1.5 hrs drive to the big city and then home again afterwards).

Flyover country affords us the ability to watch the sun go down from our porch looking across a big patch of ground that we own while sipping tea or coffee or... We have space to enjoy and play in. Space to garden or do whatever we want to do. Living in the city with the ability to go a million places is nice but honestly - we don't go out that much.

There is the rub: make huge money in a big city and spend 20+ years there making the best of a place that I'm not really compatible with, or live where I want to making low six figures and enjoying every day more.
« Last Edit: February 03, 2020, 12:08:53 PM by Just Joe »

obstinate

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Re: NYTimes: The Hunt
« Reply #16 on: February 04, 2020, 02:02:54 PM »
Joe, good on you for knowing what you want in life. FWIW, I was not using the term "flyover country" pejoratively. I'm just referencing something someone else said above. I don't think living in the city makes me better than anyone else. It's just what I happen to prefer, and I am definitely not going to yuck your yum.

Just Joe

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Re: NYTimes: The Hunt
« Reply #17 on: February 04, 2020, 04:21:10 PM »
Flyover country is a good name for it. No offense taken. Love it here. Come visit! ;)

2sk22

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Re: NYTimes: The Hunt
« Reply #18 on: February 14, 2020, 05:01:32 AM »
I will say that although I am from time to time jealous of the low housing prices some of y'all tout in flyover country or that weird thing sticking off our southeast corner, it is missing the point somewhat. Living in NYC or the Bay is, for some, an investment. In my experience, it is an investment that pays absurd returns, to those who are skilled and lucky. Of course, there are people pulling down $500k a year in Miami, but nothing close to as many as in NYC. The 85%ile HHI here is greater than the 95%ile in Miami. That's a big part of why it costs so much to live here. If you can figure out how to spend that money efficiently it's highly worth the added cost of housing.

I have lived in or around NY City for the past 30 years. I currently live in New Jersey, close enough that I can see the tips of the new ultra-talls on 57th street. Despite living so close to the city, subjectively it does not quite feel the same as living in the city itself. That said, I am very happy where I am.

fattest_foot

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Re: NYTimes: The Hunt
« Reply #19 on: February 14, 2020, 08:38:49 AM »
I didn't realize I was living a life of luxury by drying our clothes on a clothesline 9 months out of the year. Can you believe the sun dries them for free? They're even dry the same day we hang them up!

jinga nation

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Re: NYTimes: The Hunt
« Reply #20 on: February 14, 2020, 03:09:06 PM »
I didn't realize I was living a life of luxury by drying our clothes on a clothesline 9 months out of the year. Can you believe the sun dries them for free? They're even dry the same day we hang them up!
no wonder we have global warming, your hang-dry clothes absorbing solar emissions.
now you'll have to purchase carbon credits to offset your luxury drying.
/s

Reynold

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Re: NYTimes: The Hunt
« Reply #21 on: March 11, 2020, 03:41:06 PM »
I will say that although I am from time to time jealous of the low housing prices some of y'all tout in flyover country or that weird thing sticking off our southeast corner, it is missing the point somewhat. Living in NYC or the Bay is, for some, an investment. In my experience, it is an investment that pays absurd returns, to those who are skilled and lucky. Of course, there are people pulling down $500k a year in Miami, but nothing close to as many as in NYC. The 85%ile HHI here is greater than the 95%ile in Miami. That's a big part of why it costs so much to live here. If you can figure out how to spend that money efficiently it's highly worth the added cost of housing.

True, had a friend's husband who worked in NYC, no college degree but he did some kind of web design/marketing thing (despite having a background as a chef), and made 2-3x what he could have made out where he lived in CT, assuming he could even get that kind of job.  A long commute, part car and train, but far better money, and he arranged to work from home a couple days a week so it wasn't terrible. 

Dicey

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Re: NYTimes: The Hunt
« Reply #22 on: April 15, 2020, 01:27:53 PM »
I'm sure this reply isn't helpful, but I'm staying at home right now, so what else is there to do? I never even grossed $120,000 a year in my entire career, yet I am FIRE in a HCOLA (Bay Area). Oh, and mom & dad never paid for a car, a college education or a wedding, either, much less one third of my rent. What the absolute fuck? Stand on your own two financial feet and enjoy the sense of self-respect it offers.

On topic: OP, thanks for this link. I'm definitely going to enjoy following these stories.

KathrinS

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Re: NYTimes: The Hunt
« Reply #23 on: April 15, 2020, 02:07:59 PM »
I'm sure this reply isn't helpful, but I'm staying at home right now, so what else is there to do? I never even grossed $120,000 a year in my entire career, yet I am FIRE in a HCOLA (Bay Area). Oh, and mom & dad never paid for a car, a college education or a wedding, either, much less one third of my rent. What the absolute fuck? Stand on your own two financial feet and enjoy the sense of self-respect it offers.

On topic: OP, thanks for this link. I'm definitely going to enjoy following these stories.


This!! I would hate to have my life financed by my parents. I work with a lot of wealthy clients and have heard all kinds of absurd things:
"I need to pay my tax bill but just spent all my money on my son's deposit for his new house" (son is 28)
"We built up our emergency fund of £60k but then both of our children had £20k emergencies." Hmm, what a coincidence - also, children are in their 40s and 50s.
 "My daughter was an artist all her life, so I fund her retirement account every month." (Daughter is 57).


Bettersafe

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Re: NYTimes: The Hunt
« Reply #24 on: April 15, 2020, 02:47:11 PM »

This!! I would hate to have my life financed by my parents. I work with a lot of wealthy clients and have heard all kinds of absurd things:
"I need to pay my tax bill but just spent all my money on my son's deposit for his new house" (son is 28)
"We built up our emergency fund of £60k but then both of our children had £20k emergencies." Hmm, what a coincidence - also, children are in their 40s and 50s.
 "My daughter was an artist all her life, so I fund her retirement account every month." (Daughter is 57).

I'm truly in shock! These are indeed absurd examples...

Wrenchturner

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Re: NYTimes: The Hunt
« Reply #25 on: April 15, 2020, 04:00:30 PM »
The kitchen also has something uncommon: a recirculating range hood..."

As opposed to no range hood at all?  What seems uncommon to me is a vented range.  I love my vented range.  It's pretty much a deal breaker for me as a tenant.  I'll walk up stairs to do laundry if I have to, but I like being able to fry meat in my apartment!

chicagomeg

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Re: NYTimes: The Hunt
« Reply #26 on: April 16, 2020, 08:46:20 AM »
The kitchen also has something uncommon: a recirculating range hood..."

As opposed to no range hood at all?  What seems uncommon to me is a vented range.  I love my vented range.  It's pretty much a deal breaker for me as a tenant.  I'll walk up stairs to do laundry if I have to, but I like being able to fry meat in my apartment!

Yes, if you look closely at the photos, the other units don't have a hood at all!

I totally get that NYC has extremely high paying jobs that other cities don't. At the same time, it's incredible to me that people spend mind boggling amounts of money on housing and still make compromises on things that the rest of us just take for granted. Here's another one that made my head explode:

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/04/02/realestate/02hunt-cullen.html

"Unlike the other options, it had a dishwasher, washer-dryer and through-the-wall air-conditioning. The rent was $3,800."

If I'm paying $3,800 in rent I would expect central air conditioning! And I can't imagine renting the other options (closer to $3k) and not at least getting a dishwasher.

Wrenchturner

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Re: NYTimes: The Hunt
« Reply #27 on: April 16, 2020, 10:01:59 AM »
The kitchen also has something uncommon: a recirculating range hood..."

As opposed to no range hood at all?  What seems uncommon to me is a vented range.  I love my vented range.  It's pretty much a deal breaker for me as a tenant.  I'll walk up stairs to do laundry if I have to, but I like being able to fry meat in my apartment!

Yes, if you look closely at the photos, the other units don't have a hood at all!

I totally get that NYC has extremely high paying jobs that other cities don't. At the same time, it's incredible to me that people spend mind boggling amounts of money on housing and still make compromises on things that the rest of us just take for granted. Here's another one that made my head explode:

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/04/02/realestate/02hunt-cullen.html

"Unlike the other options, it had a dishwasher, washer-dryer and through-the-wall air-conditioning. The rent was $3,800."

If I'm paying $3,800 in rent I would expect central air conditioning! And I can't imagine renting the other options (closer to $3k) and not at least getting a dishwasher.

We have similar issues in Toronto and Vancouver, although I think the rent is cheaper up here.  I wouldn't live in those cities unless I was trying to build my resume in a field that required a huge city, or if I were very wealthy.  People that choose to live in those areas and make average incomes are just asking for pain. 

The guy in that story evidently wants to live in NYC.  He doesn't seem to complain about the rent, at least.  It's not my sense of value, especially since he moved from Colorado, but to each their own.  He's a military vet and a best-selling author so maybe it's worth it for him.  And he's got a home office which I assume has tax benefits.

obstinate

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Re: NYTimes: The Hunt
« Reply #28 on: April 16, 2020, 12:37:24 PM »
The kitchen also has something uncommon: a recirculating range hood..."

As opposed to no range hood at all?  What seems uncommon to me is a vented range.  I love my vented range.  It's pretty much a deal breaker for me as a tenant.  I'll walk up stairs to do laundry if I have to, but I like being able to fry meat in my apartment!

Yes, if you look closely at the photos, the other units don't have a hood at all!

I totally get that NYC has extremely high paying jobs that other cities don't. At the same time, it's incredible to me that people spend mind boggling amounts of money on housing and still make compromises on things that the rest of us just take for granted. Here's another one that made my head explode:

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/04/02/realestate/02hunt-cullen.html

"Unlike the other options, it had a dishwasher, washer-dryer and through-the-wall air-conditioning. The rent was $3,800."

If I'm paying $3,800 in rent I would expect central air conditioning! And I can't imagine renting the other options (closer to $3k) and not at least getting a dishwasher.
This is just down to the fact that in NYC non-luxury apartment units have one, or, if you're lucky, two exposures. You want to use your exposures for windows, not venting your dryer. Newer buildings have systems that allow internal ventilation, but it's basically impossible retrofit buildings from before when clothes dryers existed with systems like this.

Wrenchturner

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Re: NYTimes: The Hunt
« Reply #29 on: April 16, 2020, 08:20:48 PM »
The kitchen also has something uncommon: a recirculating range hood..."

As opposed to no range hood at all?  What seems uncommon to me is a vented range.  I love my vented range.  It's pretty much a deal breaker for me as a tenant.  I'll walk up stairs to do laundry if I have to, but I like being able to fry meat in my apartment!

Yes, if you look closely at the photos, the other units don't have a hood at all!

I totally get that NYC has extremely high paying jobs that other cities don't. At the same time, it's incredible to me that people spend mind boggling amounts of money on housing and still make compromises on things that the rest of us just take for granted. Here's another one that made my head explode:

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/04/02/realestate/02hunt-cullen.html

"Unlike the other options, it had a dishwasher, washer-dryer and through-the-wall air-conditioning. The rent was $3,800."

If I'm paying $3,800 in rent I would expect central air conditioning! And I can't imagine renting the other options (closer to $3k) and not at least getting a dishwasher.
This is just down to the fact that in NYC non-luxury apartment units have one, or, if you're lucky, two exposures. You want to use your exposures for windows, not venting your dryer. Newer buildings have systems that allow internal ventilation, but it's basically impossible retrofit buildings from before when clothes dryers existed with systems like this.

Good point.  Similar case for range vents which are usually far from the outside walls.

obstinate

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Re: NYTimes: The Hunt
« Reply #30 on: April 16, 2020, 09:02:27 PM »
Yep. We have a vented dryer in the house now, because we have access to the roof through a chimney. But we have lived at places valued north of $2M that have only one exposure and where the dryer is on the interior. Nothing to be done in that case. You pay through the nose (either in $$$ or less space for the same $) for a place new enough to not have these issues.