Author Topic: not enough bills for the bureaucracy  (Read 6605 times)

rosaz

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not enough bills for the bureaucracy
« on: August 26, 2014, 09:47:49 AM »
Just went to register my daughter at her school in the district I just moved to. Went in with a copy of my lease and electric bill .  But apparently these aren't enough (despite the website specifically stating these are enough). As I don't have a car registration (no car) or a cable bill (no cable) or any tax forms (haven't been at address long enough), I'm really struggling. After an hour of haggling and $1.20 per page (hoping it's not too long!), I'm getting Verizon to send me a paper bill for my internet service. But should I really need to prove I have internet to sign my daughter up for public school? Absolute bullshit.

/end rant :)

PloddingInsight

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Re: not enough bills for the bureaucracy
« Reply #1 on: August 26, 2014, 09:55:09 AM »
Pull out a tape recorder, and get them on the record stating that your daughter isn't allowed to attend because you don't have a car or cable.  Tell them to expect the media to be calling them for comments on the situation, as well as your lawyer.  (You won't need to actually get a lawyer.)  Have some fun with it.  They're completely in the wrong.  They're just giving you a hard time because that's the dumb rules that some administrator invented to make their life easier.

Shor

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Re: not enough bills for the bureaucracy
« Reply #2 on: August 26, 2014, 09:57:49 AM »
They're completely in the wrong.  They're just giving you a hard time because that's the dumb rules that some administrator invented to make their life easier.

Kaspian

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Re: not enough bills for the bureaucracy
« Reply #3 on: August 26, 2014, 10:20:15 AM »
In the 90s, I went into Blockbuster to get a member card the clerk asked, "Do you have any photo ID?"  Because it was handy in my back pocket, I flipped out my passport.  The clerk sighed and said, "Do you have any OTHER photo ID?"  I balked, "Well, if you wanted a driver's license, why didn't you just ask for that in the first place?!"  And I pulled my driver's license out from my wallet.  So, apparently my passport is good enough to get me into Russia, Mexico, Morocco, and almost everywhere else in the entire world, but rent a movie at Blockbuster?  Hell no.  That's serious business.

slugline

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Re: not enough bills for the bureaucracy
« Reply #4 on: August 26, 2014, 10:20:52 AM »
Are they looking for auto registration and/or cable bill specifically, or are they looking for more than two items of documentation? Would a water/sewer bill work? (Or is that rolled in the lease?)

MgoSam

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Re: not enough bills for the bureaucracy
« Reply #5 on: August 26, 2014, 10:29:32 AM »
In the 90s, I went into Blockbuster to get a member card the clerk asked, "Do you have any photo ID?"  Because it was handy in my back pocket, I flipped out my passport.  The clerk sighed and said, "Do you have any OTHER photo ID?"  I balked, "Well, if you wanted a driver's license, why didn't you just ask for that in the first place?!"  And I pulled my driver's license out from my wallet.  So, apparently my passport is good enough to get me into Russia, Mexico, Morocco, and almost everywhere else in the entire world, but rent a movie at Blockbuster?  Hell no.  That's serious business.

Reminds me of how much I hated my local video place. At first it was fine, and then they hired a manager that was an absolute freak. He would snap at employees and customers, even if they were asking a pretty legit question, and I absolutely hated late fees. After a while I stopped going there and went to Blockbuster, and while they weren't cheap at least the "teenagers" working there were helpful, polite, and actually cared to be there.

And then Netflix and Redbox did to them, what Blockbuster did to local video stores.....

austin

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Re: not enough bills for the bureaucracy
« Reply #6 on: August 26, 2014, 10:31:08 AM »
In the 90s, I went into Blockbuster to get a member card the clerk asked, "Do you have any photo ID?"  Because it was handy in my back pocket, I flipped out my passport.  The clerk sighed and said, "Do you have any OTHER photo ID?"  I balked, "Well, if you wanted a driver's license, why didn't you just ask for that in the first place?!"  And I pulled my driver's license out from my wallet.  So, apparently my passport is good enough to get me into Russia, Mexico, Morocco, and almost everywhere else in the entire world, but rent a movie at Blockbuster?  Hell no.  That's serious business.

What's a Blockbuster?

rosaz

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Re: not enough bills for the bureaucracy
« Reply #7 on: August 26, 2014, 10:39:20 AM »
Are they looking for auto registration and/or cable bill specifically, or are they looking for more than two items of documentation? Would a water/sewer bill work? (Or is that rolled in the lease?)

Other bills might have worked, though those were the two she suggested and was surprised I didn't have. (Water and sewer are in the lease, and I have electric stove and heating so no gas/oil). Oh and naturally a bank statement would not be considered acceptable. They were looking for two forms of documentation, but apparently a lease wasn't ok even though the website said it was...

PloddingInsight

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Re: not enough bills for the bureaucracy
« Reply #8 on: August 26, 2014, 10:43:05 AM »
Other bills might have worked, though those were the two she suggested and was surprised I didn't have. (Water and sewer are in the lease, and I have electric stove and heating so no gas/oil). Oh and naturally a bank statement would not be considered acceptable. They were looking for two forms of documentation, but apparently a lease wasn't ok even though the website said it was...

Again, focus on the outcome of their rules.  It's fine to require two forms of documentation from people that have two forms of documentation -- But they can't deny a child access to a public school education just because her parents don't have cable.  Ask the consequences of not providing the documentation.  Try to get them to state explicitly that they're not letting a kid go to school because her parents don't have a car or cable or whatever.  They'll realize how silly they're being if you make them say it out loud.

rosaz

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Re: not enough bills for the bureaucracy
« Reply #9 on: August 26, 2014, 10:43:31 AM »
Pull out a tape recorder, and get them on the record stating that your daughter isn't allowed to attend because you don't have a car or cable.  Tell them to expect the media to be calling them for comments on the situation, as well as your lawyer.  (You won't need to actually get a lawyer.)  Have some fun with it.  They're completely in the wrong.  They're just giving you a hard time because that's the dumb rules that some administrator invented to make their life easier.

Yeah I thought about going into full b**** mode and making some very nasty comments, along the lines "Oh, I didn't realize I needed a car to send my daughter to public school. Maybe I could ask the superintendent to show me that part in the town bylaws?"... but decided that if I did get my daughter in, this woman would have the power to make my life difficult for the next six years, so best just to smile and nod. Damn it. I had some really choice remarks already thought out, too :)

rosaz

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Re: not enough bills for the bureaucracy
« Reply #10 on: August 26, 2014, 10:50:01 AM »
Plodding - yeah, I ended up deciding it was easier just to deal with Verizon (and that is saying something!) than fight this particular battle. But had Verizon not eventually agreed to send me a paper internet bill (or had I decided - which I almost did - to forego internet for a little while), that is the route I would have gone.

I agree, 2 forms of documentation is a reasonable requirement... I just dislike that this person decided that one of the the documented acceptable forms was not acceptable by her standards. And I guess it just bugged me that only bills were acceptable, and say, bank statements were not - seems a skewed sense of priorities. And I just really, really hate Verizon, so dealing with them always puts me in a crappy mood where I need to rant :)

Paul der Krake

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Re: not enough bills for the bureaucracy
« Reply #11 on: August 26, 2014, 11:31:29 AM »
As an alternative to raising a raucus, you can find an old bill, scan it, edit the address in your favorite image editor, and print. It's not like she's going to call them.

slugline

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Re: not enough bills for the bureaucracy
« Reply #12 on: August 26, 2014, 11:35:08 AM »
Bills should be used when they can show that someone is having residential services delivered to an address. A bank statement isn't really the same since a checking/savings account isn't specifically serving an address. With that said, a lease and electric bill should have been plenty....

dorothyc

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Re: not enough bills for the bureaucracy
« Reply #13 on: August 26, 2014, 12:22:22 PM »
Just went to register my daughter at her school in the district I just moved to. Went in with a copy of my lease and electric bill .  But apparently these aren't enough (despite the website specifically stating these are enough).

I'm sorry for your experience, but haven't you ever heard of people using fake addresses to get their kids into a certain school? A friend of mine found the previous owner's mail from the neighborhood school in his mailbox, for the current semester, after they had already moved away and outside the catchment area for that particular school.

NumberCruncher

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Re: not enough bills for the bureaucracy
« Reply #14 on: August 26, 2014, 01:52:09 PM »
Just went to register my daughter at her school in the district I just moved to. Went in with a copy of my lease and electric bill .  But apparently these aren't enough (despite the website specifically stating these are enough).

I'm sorry for your experience, but haven't you ever heard of people using fake addresses to get their kids into a certain school? A friend of mine found the previous owner's mail from the neighborhood school in his mailbox, for the current semester, after they had already moved away and outside the catchment area for that particular school.

But I'm assuming they were no longer paying the electric on the place, though? I can understand not using a lease alone as they could easily be forged, but utility bill not counting (or needing multiple utility bills)?

rosaz

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Re: not enough bills for the bureaucracy
« Reply #15 on: August 26, 2014, 02:15:10 PM »
I'm sorry for your experience, but haven't you ever heard of people using fake addresses to get their kids into a certain school? A friend of mine found the previous owner's mail from the neighborhood school in his mailbox, for the current semester, after they had already moved away and outside the catchment area for that particular school.

It does happen but I don't think it's that common (in your example, I'd say that a lot of schools will let a child who is already enrolled continue if he moves out of district, as long as it's the same town. Could well be perfectly legitimate). I see why they want the documentation; I just feel like my situation (no car isn't that uncommon in my community; many people more in late summer and so won't have tons of bills already) is common enough that they should have some work-around (i.e. maybe put in the 5 minutes of research themselves to verify through the leasing office of my commercially owned apartment building that I live there).

I guess I just don't get it since we switched schools in the middle of the school year a ton when I was a kid; if we'd had to wait three weeks to accumulate some bills each time before my parents could register me, that would have added up to some pretty massive gaps in my education. My mother only ever needed a lease.

Wolf_Stache

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Re: not enough bills for the bureaucracy
« Reply #16 on: August 26, 2014, 03:53:51 PM »
I've run into this particular frustration before. For the longest time i could not set up an account to rent movies/videos because I had no bills. I rented a room from a friend, so no lease, no utilities, as friend paid them all, no cell phone (they were not common at the time), etc. It does get pretty frustrating. I'm just surprised a lease wasn't valid, tho. Maybe after everything is sorted out you should tell them to update their information to take a lease off the valid list of documents.

Rezdent

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Re: not enough bills for the bureaucracy
« Reply #17 on: August 26, 2014, 06:43:09 PM »
I used to have this fight EVERY YEAR with the school.
No lease, as I lived with my SO in their house with them listed as the owner on the tax role.
Utilities not in my name.
Drivers license plus bank account, cell phone, internet...Not good enough.
My SO had to come in with me during "business hours only" with utilities and drivers license AND sign a document stating that I lived in the house and that the child did as well.
The first year the clerk made a snark comment that we should get married if we planned to stay and have our child in that school.  That did it - I went into bitch mode and let him and every person in that long line know what I thought.  Took me about 20 minutes the first year.

Year 2 I was better prepared with my public display of indignation and managed to command everyone's attention for 30 minutes as loudly as possible without actually shouting or cursing.

Year 3 they were very respectful and tried to hustle me through quickly but oh no - I took our time.  If 2 adults have to miss work 3 years in a row...yup - I got on my soapbox.  My marital status is none of their damn business.
At least 1 of those years the others in line applauded.

FWIW, I was married and had I brought in my marriage certificate I wouldn't have had to ever document again but I refused.  My marital status has nothing to do with it.
/rant.
Sorry you had to go through this...but next year should be easier.

EricL

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Re: not enough bills for the bureaucracy
« Reply #18 on: August 27, 2014, 07:25:34 AM »
I used to have this fight EVERY YEAR with the school.
No lease, as I lived with my SO in their house with them listed as the owner on the tax role.
Utilities not in my name.
Drivers license plus bank account, cell phone, internet...Not good enough.
My SO had to come in with me during "business hours only" with utilities and drivers license AND sign a document stating that I lived in the house and that the child did as well.
The first year the clerk made a snark comment that we should get married if we planned to stay and have our child in that school.  That did it - I went into bitch mode and let him and every person in that long line know what I thought.  Took me about 20 minutes the first year.

Year 2 I was better prepared with my public display of indignation and managed to command everyone's attention for 30 minutes as loudly as possible without actually shouting or cursing.

Year 3 they were very respectful and tried to hustle me through quickly but oh no - I took our time.  If 2 adults have to miss work 3 years in a row...yup - I got on my soapbox.  My marital status is none of their damn business.
At least 1 of those years the others in line applauded.

FWIW, I was married and had I brought in my marriage certificate I wouldn't have had to ever document again but I refused.  My marital status has nothing to do with it.
/rant.
Sorry you had to go through this...but next year should be easier.

+1. LoL. Bureaucracies like that deserve it.

prudent_one

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Re: not enough bills for the bureaucracy
« Reply #19 on: August 28, 2014, 05:22:09 AM »
+1. LoL. Bureaucracies like that deserve it.

And nobody does bureaucracy like schools!

Apples

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Re: not enough bills for the bureaucracy
« Reply #20 on: August 28, 2014, 06:45:02 AM »
This is interesting.  I think our school district requires two documents to prove residence, but it has a very large influx of migrant workers each fall who enroll their children.  These people generally have 1 proof of residence-a letter from their employer that states where they live (if they live in employer-provided housing).  I have no idea what they use for a second document.  But I think the secretaries are generally laid back about it, just want to be sure they know where the bus needs to pick up your kid.  But I live in a rural area, so I doubt people would school-hop and lie about addresses. Well, except for a few crazies, but those will be everywhere.  Sorry your school district is a little nuts.

Jack

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Re: not enough bills for the bureaucracy
« Reply #21 on: August 28, 2014, 07:49:44 AM »
But I think the secretaries are generally laid back about it, just want to be sure they know where the bus needs to pick up your kid.  But I live in a rural area, so I doubt people would school-hop and lie about addresses. Well, except for a few crazies, but those will be everywhere.  Sorry your school district is a little nuts.

I live in an urban area, where really good schools and really bad schools can be in close proximity. Around here, it's not unheard of for high-income people in the bad schools jurisdiction to go so far as to rent an apartment in the good schools jurisdiction and let it sit vacant, just so they have the right documentation to enroll their kid in the good school. It's cheaper than private school...

rocksinmyhead

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Re: not enough bills for the bureaucracy
« Reply #22 on: August 28, 2014, 08:09:37 AM »
In the 90s, I went into Blockbuster to get a member card the clerk asked, "Do you have any photo ID?"  Because it was handy in my back pocket, I flipped out my passport.  The clerk sighed and said, "Do you have any OTHER photo ID?"  I balked, "Well, if you wanted a driver's license, why didn't you just ask for that in the first place?!"  And I pulled my driver's license out from my wallet.  So, apparently my passport is good enough to get me into Russia, Mexico, Morocco, and almost everywhere else in the entire world, but rent a movie at Blockbuster?  Hell no.  That's serious business.

ohhh that one drives me nuts, when a passport isn't good enough for people. a couple years ago this happened to me at a bar, I had lost my driver's license and while I was waiting for the replacement, all I had was my passport and the receipt from the DMV (not just like a credit card but the "yellow papers," if you're from MN... I don't know how other states do it). bouncer gave me SUCH a hard time about it. had I not had the yellow papers at all, he definitely wouldn't have let me in. WTF? if someone doesn't have a driver's license, they're not allowed to drink at a bar? I wonder if a state-issued ID (the ones that look like a driver's license but aren't) would have been acceptable.

sorry about your hassle, rosaz... that would have really pissed me off too especially if the website gave different info.

Paul der Krake

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Re: not enough bills for the bureaucracy
« Reply #23 on: August 28, 2014, 09:45:19 AM »
In the 90s, I went into Blockbuster to get a member card the clerk asked, "Do you have any photo ID?"  Because it was handy in my back pocket, I flipped out my passport.  The clerk sighed and said, "Do you have any OTHER photo ID?"  I balked, "Well, if you wanted a driver's license, why didn't you just ask for that in the first place?!"  And I pulled my driver's license out from my wallet.  So, apparently my passport is good enough to get me into Russia, Mexico, Morocco, and almost everywhere else in the entire world, but rent a movie at Blockbuster?  Hell no.  That's serious business.

ohhh that one drives me nuts, when a passport isn't good enough for people. a couple years ago this happened to me at a bar, I had lost my driver's license and while I was waiting for the replacement, all I had was my passport and the receipt from the DMV (not just like a credit card but the "yellow papers," if you're from MN... I don't know how other states do it). bouncer gave me SUCH a hard time about it. had I not had the yellow papers at all, he definitely wouldn't have let me in. WTF? if someone doesn't have a driver's license, they're not allowed to drink at a bar? I wonder if a state-issued ID (the ones that look like a driver's license but aren't) would have been acceptable.

sorry about your hassle, rosaz... that would have really pissed me off too especially if the website gave different info.
That guy was a douche. I've used my foreign passport at least a hundred times to get in bars in a dozen states from AZ to NY and never had a problem, aside from a puzzled look from a bouncer in rural Tennessee. But I think that was just because he had never seen a foreigner before.