The Money Mustache Community
Around the Internet => Antimustachian Wall of Shame and Comedy => Topic started by: NorthernDreamer on March 20, 2017, 10:59:32 AM
-
As a woman (and mother) in her mid-30s, I know many other women (and mothers). Many stay at home (I do not). Apparently MLMs are the new work-at-home goldmines. According to Facebook, I now know people who sell:
- Usborne books (actually decent books, that I purchase once in a while)
- Lipsense ($75 for a lip product "system" that's going to burn my lips and spout questionable science at me?)
- Amway (just, no)
- Life Leadership
- Jamberry
- essential oils
- Lularoe (okay leggings are fantastic but now apparently they are falling apart, and are quite overpriced)
- 31 gifts (bags?)
- Pampered Chef
- Mary Kay
Never mind the ones who have tried to invite me to Stella & Dot (overpriced costume jewellery), Arbonne (I am a drug-store buying minimalist, thanks), and 31 gifts (no opinion because I just don't attend home parties). Ugh. Thank goodness I don't know a Beachbody/Shakeology rep. I can appreciate they are trying to make some money on the side, but I am not sure why they can't see that most are thinly veiled pyramid schemes and that the products are so expensive not because they are "worth it" but because of how the profits filter up in these companies.
Actually the Life Leadership rep is a male childhood friend of my husband's. He lives a few hours away and was going to be in town "on business" and wanted to come over and catch up. Unfortunately it was because he wanted to talk to us about a "business opportunity". We shut him down and quick. I can tell it really hurt my husband because the old friend never ended up stopping by once he knew that my husband wanted to "keep business out of it and just visit".
Rant over. (For now...)
-
I've lost friendships over MLM.
The worst one my bro-in-law's friend tried to trick us with was "It Works: Have You Tried That Crazy Wrap Thing?" As soon as he said that, I asked him if it was a referral program. He said yes, I said I'm not interested and told him that any attempt to talk about his product or job will get him kicked out of the house.
He gave me a can of an energy drink and a retail-packaged satchet of a green weight-loss powder. I pointed out that neither product listed ingredients so I wasn't going to use them, plus I don't drink sodas or energy drinks. He still insisted, and placed one can in the fridge.
We let him stay in the house for a week as a courtesy, he was clean and polite, but my wife chewed out her brother for giving our info to this guy. Luckily he left the house in the morning before we did for his conference, and came back at a decent time at night before we went to bed.
-
Yeah, it's getting really annoying. I was at my sister's the other day and she said she only invited people who weren't involved in a MLM; so we could complain about them, and not insult anyone.
And I had two encounters with World Financial Group people last week - so annoying. Worse than the typical "ladies" MLMs, as they also get tons of money out of their clients by pretending they are giving free services.
-
Strains friendships and family relationships when there is a pressure-to-buy thing going on. No thank you. Long ago I went to a Mary Kay party, I think it was the second one I ever attended (I came home from the first one totally confused, so I willingly accepted the invite to the 2nd one because I didn't know what MLM was at the time and I saw so many pretty/shinies). I ended up buying two pieces of jewellery (I never wear any) and a few weeks afterwards, the equation made sense in my head and I said nope. nope nope nope, to the rest of it.
My partner's friend has gotten involved in something else that will allow her to travel around the country selling things for the MLM, and she was so excited about hosting parties, etc.. I realized that, knowing how these schemes work, it is not in my personality to rip people off like that, to take such advantage, to work the "but if you buy 3, you'll get the 4th 75% off! Come on, you know you want to!" especially when someone has made such an effort to be so frugal.. Sigh. :(
-
What, no Younique?
Because SAHM's need eyelashes that rival Lady Gaga's at a concert!
-
Threads like this make me so grateful that no one I know, in the real world or on FB, participates in these schemes.
What does MLM stand for?
-
I think it stands for multi-level marketing.
I don't know anyone doing MLMs right now either. I have in the past though.
Does anyone know if Avon is an MLM? I don't think it is.
-
What, no Younique?
Because SAHM's need eyelashes that rival Lady Gaga's at a concert!
Ha! No Younique. I don't think it's as big of a thing in Canada.
(yet)
-
And I had two encounters with World Financial Group people last week - so annoying. Worse than the typical "ladies" MLMs, as they also get tons of money out of their clients by pretending they are giving free services.
World Financial Group is a confirmed MLM? I know virtually nothing about them, but that would certainly explain the frequent and glowing Facebook posts by a relative of mine.
-
I hate these as a rule, generally, but I attended a pampered chef party for a neighbor (it was very low-key with lots of kids running around and no actual pressure to buy). I did not buy anything at the party, but I did agree host one for the same neighbor at my house so I could get a discount on a few kitchen items that we still use pretty regularly. Only 3-4 people came and my husband entertained their children in the backyard with pizza and water balloons. I served food and drinks and it was fun. I repeatedly told my guests that they didn't have to buy anything (to the chagrin of the rep probably) because I would get the discount just for hosting.
I know a few Rodan and Fields sellers and accidentally went to a Lia Sophia party once that tainted my view of these gatherings.
-
My parents are a part of a MLM that sells some sort of fish oil that is supposed to cure basically every thing under the sun... It drives me up a wall when you can get the same product for half the price or less. It also has an expensive test that supposedly tells you how much better you are after 6 months of taking the oil. Of course the test is done by the company selling the oil. Yes they have a money back guarantee if the test shows you aren't doing better. The test always shows you are doing better... I wish they would stop wasting their money. I did listen to one of their sales pitches. I made it clear that they could get just as good of a product with out the stupid sales and they had nothing to say.
-
Ugh. I get invited to these things ALL. THE. TIME. by ladies in my neighborhood.
I've got a "friend" in my FB feed that has quit her full time job to do LulaRoe. She AND HER HUSBAND post all these "because of LulaRoe" posts on FB. It's annoying. I wonder what will happen when there are too many reps or when everyone already owns a pair of leggings and they go out of style?
You forgot-
Wild Tree
Isagenix
and my latest invite-
Better Way Imports
I think I'm starting to get a reputation in the neighborhood for going to these parties, drinking wine and NOT buying anything. This month alone I was invited to THRE parties- Stella & Dot, LipSense and Better Way Imports.
-
What does MLM stand for?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multi-level_marketing
-
As a woman (and mother) in her mid-30s, I know many other women (and mothers). Many stay at home (I do not). Apparently MLMs are the new work-at-home goldmines. According to Facebook, I now know people who sell:
- Usborne books (actually decent books, that I purchase once in a while)
- Lipsense ($75 for a lip product "system" that's going to burn my lips and spout questionable science at me?)
- Amway (just, no)
- Life Leadership
- Jamberry
- essential oils
- Lularoe (okay leggings are fantastic but now apparently they are falling apart, and are quite overpriced)
- 31 gifts (bags?)
- Pampered Chef
- Mary Kay
Never mind the ones who have tried to invite me to Stella & Dot (overpriced costume jewellery), Arbonne (I am a drug-store buying minimalist, thanks), and 31 gifts (no opinion because I just don't attend home parties). Ugh. Thank goodness I don't know a Beachbody/Shakeology rep. I can appreciate they are trying to make some money on the side, but I am not sure why they can't see that most are thinly veiled pyramid schemes and that the products are so expensive not because they are "worth it" but because of how the profits filter up in these companies.
Actually the Life Leadership rep is a male childhood friend of my husband's. He lives a few hours away and was going to be in town "on business" and wanted to come over and catch up. Unfortunately it was because he wanted to talk to us about a "business opportunity". We shut him down and quick. I can tell it really hurt my husband because the old friend never ended up stopping by once he knew that my husband wanted to "keep business out of it and just visit".
Rant over. (For now...)
Ha ha ha this was funny. I know lots of Beachbody folks if you want an intro!
Thing is, I've been to some of these.
- CAbi (clothing). I'm not a clothes horse. Haven't bought anything in over 5 years. But I have to say, the items that I bought over the 3 years I was invited to these things - they are very flattering, are my favorites, and have held up really well over time. Both physically and stylistically. So that was a win.
- Pampered Chef. I own a few items that I use daily. My last PC party (that I attended) was well over 11 years ago.
- Stella & Dot. I don't wear jewelry but I do have a pretty necklace.
Other thoughts:
- Beachbody. I love the workouts. But honestly, the business is getting weak for coaches. I can tell really from the ones that I know. First, you get money from selling shakeology and workouts. Except the workouts are available streaming for very little ($99/ yr for ALL workouts). So good luck selling DVDs. Second, the shakes are overpriced. The rest of the income is from building a "team", which is just BS classic MLM. From what I hear from friends, beachbody recently changed their rules that you cannot do more than one subscription or MLM. Which means I think they are realizing that smart people who want the workouts are going to sign up for the streaming service. I think they are cutting out a whole bunch of "coaches". That's my theory anyway.
- Books. My cousin sells these. I have plenty of books.
- Nails and leggings. Nope and nope
- Skin care. Can't remember the name. I have a few friends who have had fantastic results with this one skincare line. But I googled it and it's something like $120 a month. And...the regimen is something like 15-20 minutes a day. I mean, I'm 46, and who wouldn't want to look 25 again? But 15-20 minutes a day? I wash my face in the shower. Oh yeah, I read the other responses. Rodan and Fields!
- Essential oils. Please, just no.
- there was a phone/ internet/ electric services one too
- makeup. Hmm...another cousin. Which was it? Oh yeah, POSH
- eyelashes. Please no.
- Now I remember my next door neighbor with some "superfoods chocolate", 13-14 years ago.
-
- Essential oils. Please, just no.
LOL, I didn't know that essential oils was a MLM thing. I saw a friend of mine post about how she just started using them and likes it and as I import incense infusers I thought I would give them a try. Well she texted me a long sales pitch and I realized it was a MLM...WANT NOTHING TO DO WITH THAT!!!!
-
And I had two encounters with World Financial Group people last week - so annoying. Worse than the typical "ladies" MLMs, as they also get tons of money out of their clients by pretending they are giving free services.
World Financial Group is a confirmed MLM? I know virtually nothing about them, but that would certainly explain the frequent and glowing Facebook posts by a relative of mine.
Yes. "World Financial Group (WFG) is a multi-level marketing company (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Financial_Group)"
-
Another MLM I have seen on Facebook is "Thrive"...
In fact, these MLMs...and people trying to make a 'business' our of social media ( usually Facebook ), at the expense of their 'friends'...is one of the reason I pretty much quit Facebook!
-
I once had a co-worker who sold Avon as a side-gig. The fact that I don't wear makeup made her not bother trying to market to me. That's the only actual exposure I've had to an MLM personally.
I think it helps that I'm not a social person though.
-
I still have a lot of friends and relatives back on Hillbilly Mountain and a lot of them are involved in these pyramid schemes -- and that's what MLM is, so let's call a spade a spade. Pyramid schemes prey on very desperate people. The last thing someone living in a trailer on welfare needs is to end up being fooled by snakeoil salesmen into buying hundreds of dollars of a product they will never be able to sell. And that's how these pyramid schemes always end up. I know so many people with a pantry full of self-purchased, overpriced Amway non-perishable food.
-
I don't have any new MLM stories lately, but someone I went to high school with has a conflict of interest on her sleeve that nobody else seems to notice (and pumping personal contacts for financial gain which this thread got me thinking). A couple years ago she started hitting us all up on Facebook to go on a cruise. I thought it was out of the blue and aside from accepting her as a FB friend ages ago I never even looked at her profile. This time I took a notice that her profile pic was of her in a Dominoes uniform which seemed odd for someone trying to put together a cruise. I dug a little deeper and saw that she is part of some travel agency group of which she appears to be the only employee (their facebook page is nothing but photos of her). The cruise idea died on the vine from lack of interest. Fast forward to this weekend where she's taken it upon herself to organize our 20th class reunion. She wants to do it at a casino a couple hours from where we all grew up which will include a venue, group hotel reservations, flights, and some other things that have to be booked well in advance (that she needs to be in the loop on for some reason). I can't help but wonder if she's getting some kind of deal or kickback out of this arrangement that she's not disclosing.
-
God these drive me up the WALL. I'm right in the prime SAHP MLM age group. Large town/Small city. So much MLM trash. I never go to any of the parties. I get FB invites ALL the time. I've started replying to a lot of them with John Oliver's MLM clip ;) Not to close friends, just the 'friends of friends' who somehow find me.
For those who haven't seen it: https://youtu.be/s6MwGeOm8iI (https://youtu.be/s6MwGeOm8iI) John Oliver is always fantastic =) He swears a lot though, so be warned for 'sensitive ears'.
-
I once had a co-worker who sold Avon as a side-gig. The fact that I don't wear makeup made her not bother trying to market to me. That's the only actual exposure I've had to an MLM personally.
I think it helps that I'm not a social person though.
You're lucky. Avon sells so much more than makeup! I hear all about bug spray and sunscreen.
-
Oh man, I run the other direction...
Lularoe... sorry but your leggings are UGLY and not worth the $25 or whatever. Wow. For just a few bucks more I can buy designer leggings from wildbangarang.com in the UK, and not only is the quality great, but they have leggings that look like fucking SPACE ARMOR, not to mention the art styles from the National Gallery.
Jamberry... talk about boring and overpriced. $15+ for a bunch of stickers for your nails??? Those can't cost more than $1-2 a sheet to produce and they're asking $15+. Don't get me wrong, I like nail wraps, but EspionageCosmetics.com has really cool, unique styles I've been buying at $5 a sheet. Even at full price the designer ones are like $12, and their sales are predictable, just wait for one and stock up. Plus you don't need anything fancy to put them on just some scissors and a nail file.
Every scheme in general... look, if you're a rep then I'm now going to start assuming that every time you reach out to hang with me, you actually have an ulterior motive, to get me to buy your shit that I don't need. If I don't buy something you're going to be offended somehow, and I will feel unnecessary guilt, or at least wonder if I've offended you. So in order to maintain a pleasant relationship with you, I'm obligated to buy things I don't need. Does that sound like a healthy relationship? Nope.
-
Anyone dealt with plexus yet?
-
Amway! Back in my Navy days, I had a roommate for 6 months who was into Amway. Gotta tell you, I didn't have to buy a roll of TP or paper towels that whole 6 months!
-
I've been lucky, I've only had to endure one tupperware party way back when. Haven't been to any other such parties since. Whew!
-
We had a coworker who was selling some sort of diet powder. Didn't do the friend any good, why would it do us any good?
Wouldn't it be nice if these "friends" just wanted to be friends you could share a meal and a board game/movie/porch time with instead?
-
I must be the only person on the forums who's exposed to these but not bothered. I've been to a few MLM parties in my life and felt no pressure to buy anything. I have a SIL who sells Mary Kay and another who sold Tupperware; we socialize with no mention of the business. Occasionally I buy a lipstick. It's really not a big deal at all.
Maybe it's because both these SILs sell as a side gig to their real jobs. Neither of them preaches the MLM gospel because neither of them believes it herself. I think for them it's mainly a way to get the product for herself at a discount.
-
Those can't cost more than $1-2 a sheet to produce...
I used to have a side gig selling metallic nail stickers on ebay. I had some made by a sticker companies for ~5 cents/sheet. And that was for runs of only ~1000 sheets.
-
I must be the only person on the forums who's exposed to these but not bothered. I've been to a few MLM parties in my life and felt no pressure to buy anything. I have a SIL who sells Mary Kay and another who sold Tupperware; we socialize with no mention of the business. Occasionally I buy a lipstick. It's really not a big deal at all.
Maybe it's because both these SILs sell as a side gig to their real jobs. Neither of them preaches the MLM gospel because neither of them believes it herself. I think for them it's mainly a way to get the product for herself at a discount.
The main reason that everyone mentioned for being bothered was the pressure to buy. If you've never been pressured, it would make sense that you aren't bothered by it. I mentioned something similar in my post. The issue is that many of these companies advocate or require preying on friends and family. Which is generally a turn off.
-
And I had two encounters with World Financial Group people last week - so annoying. Worse than the typical "ladies" MLMs, as they also get tons of money out of their clients by pretending they are giving free services.
World Financial Group is a confirmed MLM? I know virtually nothing about them, but that would certainly explain the frequent and glowing Facebook posts by a relative of mine.
Yes. "World Financial Group (WFG) is a multi-level marketing company (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Financial_Group)"
The sad part is how little the average agent (bottom tier) gets paid for a lot of hustle and work. The positive part is that they do get paid something from each sale, and they get low cost training that is decent for securities/ mutual fund licenses.... for people without other degrees or new to the country, it can work out if they switch out after a year or two to another firm.
-
I actually feel very sorry for all these people who bug me with this. At least among those I know, they all seem to genuinely believe they are building a great work from home business and a passive income stream. When in reality they are probably just financially straining their families even more. Sometimes I even buy some of that crap out of sheer pity even though I'm not sure if that helps as it might reinforce the belief that it is a sustainable business.
Here the main thing is some aloe vera stuff called Forever Living and some cosmetics called Nu skin or something like that.
I once posted on a facebook group of moms in the area about a friend looking for a job with babysitting in mind and got about a dozen private messages about this great opportunity for my friend. It was hard to tell with some if they were deliberately being deceptive or they genuinely believed the crap they were telling me, somehow it really felt that the latter was the case. I think in their training they are taught to talk about the "job" that way, even if their experience is radically different (as I really don't believe any of them make the money worth calling this a job).
But as said, I don't really get annoyed when these people approach me, I feel quite a bit of compassion for their terribly misguided sense of business and finances. As it's really all stay at home moms who dream about contributing to their household financially and end up prey to an older generation of equally deluded women...you rarely get to meet any of the hot shots who actually make money on this and then they're not selling the product or trying to recruit someone they know.
-
I know someone who pushes Plexus products and it drives me totally nuts. No nutritional information with claims of fixing sooo many issues.... The worst part is that all this person posts about anymore is plexus products. I don't have you as a friend to hear about the crap you're selling. It would be one thing if it was a casual post here and there but when your pushing a product in 90% of your posts then that's when you're just being stupid.
Rant over... For now...
Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk
-
This is so, so prevalent among military spouses. I understand the temptation. Sustaining a career (or even employment) when you are moving so often is tough, and when you are the only parent home for months at a time, I'm sure that makes working even more difficult.
But it is absolutely insane how many of these people are around me. I'm actually fairly grateful that due to the nature of my husband's position now, I have a built in excuse not to go to these, if I'm invited. Also, in-home parties seems to be less and less common. Now, it seems to mostly be done online (Join my 31 Bags Facebook group party!). That makes it so much easier for someone like me who has trouble saying no in awkward situations, to just fade in to the background.
And yes, the people who only want to talk to you if you are expressing interest in either their products or in joining their "team" are actually pretty shitty human beings.
I once had a coworker return from her Amway retreat and sit down with my in my cube trying to get me to learn more about how I could be working for myself in only a few years!!! with this great opportunity. And she wouldn't take my repeated gentle nos as an answer. had she not been a good friend of my supervisor, and would it not have been social suicide in the office to have done so, I would have reported her. Bad enough to ask at all, but to basically trap me at my desk and continue to push even when I demured? Way over the line.
-
I work in a DoD/military environment. Some co-workers were pushing ViSalus. One's wife quit her job to start a fitness studio, which was basically a front for pushing the products. Studio shut down a couple of years later.
-
I hate the "facebook party" thing. If you are going to want me to guilt buy something because you invited me to a party, you at least need to feed me some appetizers!
I had a cousin try to get me to buy usborne books. "To start the new baby's library. I'm available to do facebook parties on X, Y, and Z date- which one works best for you?" LOL. All I had to do was tell her all my friends names, and she would do the rest!
Um, no thanks. Also, I've gotten a pretty decent stash of usborne books from Buy Nothing, and I suspect the stash of them will get even bigger once it is warm enough for garage sales. Those things are a dime a dozen. Paying full price would be insane.
-
My neighbor just got into LuLaRoe and is already totally despondent. It cost 10k to buy in and she was on the wait list for months for an opening. Now that she's in, she's discovered how hard it is, how little support she gets from the mothership, and how disorganized and poorly run that mothership is. She was in tears over the 10k that she's now positive will be a loss.
I just told her I was sorry, but in my head I was thinking, "Yeah, you really would have been better off starting a side hustle on your home computer for no money and working to build something of your own."
-
What really gets on my nerves is when you go to an in home party and on top of the ridiculous prices you have to pay "shipping".
I was recently at a Better Way Imports party. On top of a $50 necklace or bag they wanted 10% for shipping. (I didn't buy anything) Then I saw the host post after the party that the purchases had arrived and people could pick them up. So they charge 10% in shipping and it doesn't even come directly to your house?? They ship it in one big box to the hosts house.
Same thing with Pampered Chef. If you want to buy a tiny set of measuring spoons you have to pay a flat $5 in shipping. That's crazy. (they do make an awesome pizza cutter though, for my mustacian homemade pizzas)
-
What really gets on my nerves is when you go to an in home party and on top of the ridiculous prices you have to pay "shipping".
I was recently at a Better Way Imports party. On top of a $50 necklace or bag they wanted 10% for shipping. (I didn't buy anything) Then I saw the host post after the party that the purchases had arrived and people could pick them up. So they charge 10% in shipping and it doesn't even come directly to your house?? They ship it in one big box to the hosts house.
Same thing with Pampered Chef. If you want to buy a tiny set of measuring spoons you have to pay a flat $5 in shipping. That's crazy. (they do make an awesome pizza cutter though, for my mustacian homemade pizzas)
I was shocked about the shipping cost for Pampered Chef too. It's all one shipment. But on the pizza topic, we use our PC pizza stone regularly - I may have to look into the cutter.
-
Our neighbour, who my BF was friends with, started selling essential oils in the past few months. When she started posting on Facebook that some combination of essential oils could help cure your cold this season, my BF sent her message stating that it was dangerous to make unsubstantiated medical claims because it could cost the health of an innocent child if an easily influenced mother used essential oils to treat her child instead of seeing a doctor, for example. Lets just say the relationship has sort of deteriorated since then. The neighbour claims that my BF is doing this on purpose to be an asshole, but he just can't justify encouraging someone who goes so against every scientific fibre of his very being. I've never been close to her for the same reason. It's unfortunate since we cross paths almost daily, but meh, what are ya gonna do.
-
I don't have too much exposure to MLMs but have had a few people try to recruit me. The recruitment method is SO scammy! Most of the time, they won't say upfront what the product/business is. One woman I went to school with, haven't seen in person in 10+ years, but we are friends on FB. She messages me about how she has a "business opportunity". She had been constantly talking up on FB various diet supplements she was taking to lose weight, but never actually disclosing the name of the supplements or the company, just "message me to find out more!". Because I wasn't initially 100% sure this was an MLM thing (this was maybe 7 years ago, before everyone and their mother really seemed to be pushing MLMs all over FB), I messaged back and asked for more info. I got a fairly vague response--no company name, no type of business, nothing. Eventually I just told her I was too busy and fortunately haven't heard anything since. She still posts about the various things she takes on FB and STILL never explicitly posts the name of the company. After googling one of the product names in a picture she posted, I figured she is probably shilling for Amway. But it's SO weird that she never just says "I use these great Amway products"! I know another woman who sells Beachbody and it is the same thing. She never explicitly mentions Shakeology (just "amazing superfoods shake") or workouts specific to Beachbody, but that's what she's selling. Is this something MLMs specifically encourage? It seems so shady to me. If I am trying to recruit a friend to work at my company, I can tell them the name, the type of business, what the day to day nature of the job might be (or someone they can talk to to find out more), etc.
-
My neighbor just got into LuLaRoe and is already totally despondent. It cost 10k to buy in and she was on the wait list for months for an opening. Now that she's in, she's discovered how hard it is, how little support she gets from the mothership, and how disorganized and poorly run that mothership is. She was in tears over the 10k that she's now positive will be a loss.
I just told her I was sorry, but in my head I was thinking, "Yeah, you really would have been better off starting a side hustle on your home computer for no money and working to build something of your own."
Holy crap! $10k? It was $4k last year.
Although I've heard they are onboarding so many new consultants they can't even get them stock. They just take their money.
-
My neighbor just got into LuLaRoe and is already totally despondent. It cost 10k to buy in and she was on the wait list for months for an opening. Now that she's in, she's discovered how hard it is, how little support she gets from the mothership, and how disorganized and poorly run that mothership is. She was in tears over the 10k that she's now positive will be a loss.
I just told her I was sorry, but in my head I was thinking, "Yeah, you really would have been better off starting a side hustle on your home computer for no money and working to build something of your own."
Holy crap! $10k? It was $4k last year.
Although I've heard they are onboarding so many new consultants they can't even get them stock. They just take their money.
For just the $4k a family could put someone through an entire associate's degree including books, lab fees, and plus licensing fees. Then they'd have a RN or a radiology tech. Or, they could put two people through an income producing credential like a Class A CDL.
-
My neighbor just got into LuLaRoe and is already totally despondent. It cost 10k to buy in and she was on the wait list for months for an opening. Now that she's in, she's discovered how hard it is, how little support she gets from the mothership, and how disorganized and poorly run that mothership is. She was in tears over the 10k that she's now positive will be a loss.
I just told her I was sorry, but in my head I was thinking, "Yeah, you really would have been better off starting a side hustle on your home computer for no money and working to build something of your own."
Holy crap! $10k? It was $4k last year.
Although I've heard they are onboarding so many new consultants they can't even get them stock. They just take their money.
For just the $4k a family could put someone through an entire associate's degree including books, lab fees, and plus licensing fees. Then they'd have a RN or a radiology tech. Or, they could put two people through an income producing credential like a Class A CDL.
But then they would have to work for someone else and wouldn't "own their own business" and be a #girlboss
I absolutely hate the "own their own business" line with MLM. Can you make major product and marketing decisions? No- you don't own the business.
-
My neighbor just got into LuLaRoe and is already totally despondent. It cost 10k to buy in and she was on the wait list for months for an opening. Now that she's in, she's discovered how hard it is, how little support she gets from the mothership, and how disorganized and poorly run that mothership is. She was in tears over the 10k that she's now positive will be a loss.
I just told her I was sorry, but in my head I was thinking, "Yeah, you really would have been better off starting a side hustle on your home computer for no money and working to build something of your own."
Holy crap! $10k? It was $4k last year.
Although I've heard they are onboarding so many new consultants they can't even get them stock. They just take their money.
For just the $4k a family could put someone through an entire associate's degree including books, lab fees, and plus licensing fees. Then they'd have a RN or a radiology tech. Or, they could put two people through an income producing credential like a Class A CDL.
But then they would have to work for someone else and wouldn't "own their own business" and be a #girlboss
I absolutely hate the "own their own business" line with MLM. Can you make major product and marketing decisions? No- you don't own the business.
For $10K you can lease a perfectly acceptable car and drive full-time for a company like Uber or Lftye. Or you can work for Instacart. Sure, they aren't glamorous, but if the goal is be your own boss, you are with companies such as that.
-
For $10K you can lease a perfectly acceptable car and drive full-time for a company like Uber or Lftye. Or you can work for Instacart. Sure, they aren't glamorous, but if the goal is be your own boss, you are with companies such as that.
Left eye?
Left tie?
Lift ye?
:)
-
I have a friend who started selling LuLaRoe in order to be able to stay home with her kids. It seems like she's doing pretty well with it, but she's mentioned it can take ages to get new inventory orders.
I may be way off base, but it seems like the $6-10k that consultants pay to buy in and a little leg work, they could order similar items wholesale and ACTUALLY GET TO PICK THE SPECIFIC MERCHANDISE. Use the same Facebook sales model or sell on eBay or Amazon.
-
My cousin is one of these MLM suckers and it drives me nuts on facebook, though now that she's had her third kid she doesn't seem to go on about it as much. She was big into Plexus for quite awhile; I enjoyed watching her brother give her crap about it all the time. Now it's Lularoe. She hasn't finished college and has three young kids (all under 5) and is all-in on the "my own business from home" line, and it's pretty exasperating. I hate how the MLM companies take advantage of people like that who don't necessarily have the critical thinking skills to see through it...
Fortunately my neighborhood is mostly engineers and executives (it comes with the whole host of "keeping up with Joneses" with the kids, so it has its own problems), and very few MLM folks seem to make inroads. I've been to a wine party at my next door neighbor's house and a 31 party across the street, but both were only throwing the party as a favor to a friend and there was truly zero pressure to buy anything, and people I'd have hung out with anyway. My old neighborhood was full of MLMs and I don't miss that at all!
-
My neighbor just got into LuLaRoe and is already totally despondent. It cost 10k to buy in and she was on the wait list for months for an opening. Now that she's in, she's discovered how hard it is, how little support she gets from the mothership, and how disorganized and poorly run that mothership is. She was in tears over the 10k that she's now positive will be a loss.
I just told her I was sorry, but in my head I was thinking, "Yeah, you really would have been better off starting a side hustle on your home computer for no money and working to build something of your own."
LuLaRoe is breaking wide open lately. Leggings falling apart, the Morman sisterhood shunning consultants who say anything remotely negative or question the LLR gospel, illegal tax charging in the US, stock issues, fugly patterns.... I do have two pairs of their leggings and one shirt from before the quality went downhill. The idea of actually becoming a consultant and forking over $10k is insane. Now there are spin-off companies started by other people from the main family - Honey & Lace and Agnes & Dora. This is how these pyramid schemers get away with it, they set up fall-back plans and jump ship once sh*t really hits the fan. There are going to be so many LLR consultants in debt once the dust settles. I feel so bad for them all, but really, no one forced them to sign up. Sure people made false promises that preyed on their hopes. But our society needs to develop critical thinking skills and not poor-me all over life.
-
Wine parties were pretty popular in my neighborhood for awhile. The wine was ridiculously overpriced. $25 was the low end bottle, and really no different from a $6 yellow tail.
The cost to host the party was a bit high, as you had to buy all the food- but the wine for the actual party was a good deal something like $50 for 6 bottles? So we hosted one just as a way to have people over. It was fun.
But I'm glad that trend is over, because now DH is back to buying in the $15 range, not the $40 range!
-
In defense of LLR- their TC make amazing maternity leggings for me- the waist band is really comfortable. But so do VIV collective on Amazon for half the price, though the waist band isn't as nice. And the amazon ones are holding up better to washing. (I've been rotating 5 pairs of leggings for 2 months now, no real pants. LLR is not going to last much longer.)
-
Wine parties were pretty popular in my neighborhood for awhile. The wine was ridiculously overpriced. $25 was the low end bottle, and really no different from a $6 yellow tail.
The cost to host the party was a bit high, as you had to buy all the food- but the wine for the actual party was a good deal something like $50 for 6 bottles? So we hosted one just as a way to have people over. It was fun.
But I'm glad that trend is over, because now DH is back to buying in the $15 range, not the $40 range!
Yeah, I enjoyed the one wine party I went to since it was zero pressure and an excuse to have a get-together next door, but I like my $5.99 Riesling from Costco better!
-
I don't have too much exposure to MLMs but have had a few people try to recruit me. The recruitment method is SO scammy! Most of the time, they won't say upfront what the product/business is. One woman I went to school with, haven't seen in person in 10+ years, but we are friends on FB. She messages me about how she has a "business opportunity". She had been constantly talking up on FB various diet supplements she was taking to lose weight, but never actually disclosing the name of the supplements or the company, just "message me to find out more!". Because I wasn't initially 100% sure this was an MLM thing (this was maybe 7 years ago, before everyone and their mother really seemed to be pushing MLMs all over FB), I messaged back and asked for more info. I got a fairly vague response--no company name, no type of business, nothing. Eventually I just told her I was too busy and fortunately haven't heard anything since. She still posts about the various things she takes on FB and STILL never explicitly posts the name of the company. After googling one of the product names in a picture she posted, I figured she is probably shilling for Amway. But it's SO weird that she never just says "I use these great Amway products"! I know another woman who sells Beachbody and it is the same thing. She never explicitly mentions Shakeology (just "amazing superfoods shake") or workouts specific to Beachbody, but that's what she's selling. Is this something MLMs specifically encourage? It seems so shady to me. If I am trying to recruit a friend to work at my company, I can tell them the name, the type of business, what the day to day nature of the job might be (or someone they can talk to to find out more), etc.
Beachbody coaches I know are pretty open about the products and what they are. But there's definitely a "script". Or many scripts.
The MLMs are fascinating. I have friends who have rotated through them, trying to find the "magic one", I guess.
I know someone who has bounced around in real estate, business ownership, BB coach... she and her husband own a business (3 locations). She's a BB coach but recently started working as a personal trainer again. And now she's starting some sort of wine MLM/ online business thing.
The wine thing sort of aligns with their brick and mortar business...but she was showcasing a wine from Argentina.
Now. I've got nothing against Argentina. But we live in fucking Santa Barbara. We have nearly unlimited options in local, good quality wine. And if your budget leans more towards cheaper wine, then we have *3* Trader Joe's.
-
Wine parties were pretty popular in my neighborhood for awhile. The wine was ridiculously overpriced. $25 was the low end bottle, and really no different from a $6 yellow tail.
The cost to host the party was a bit high, as you had to buy all the food- but the wine for the actual party was a good deal something like $50 for 6 bottles? So we hosted one just as a way to have people over. It was fun.
But I'm glad that trend is over, because now DH is back to buying in the $15 range, not the $40 range!
I'm so grateful my local grocery store has a kick-ass $10 selection. I bought one $25 bottle (Frog's Leap, worth it) as a gift at Christmas, but other than that I couldn't tell you the last time I spent more than $10 plus tax.
-
But then they would have to work for someone else and wouldn't "own their own business" and be a #girlboss
I absolutely hate the "own their own business" line with MLM. Can you make major product and marketing decisions? No- you don't own the business.
Indeed. Also, most people shouldn't be entrepreneurs or self-employed.
A person can also be a #boyboss or #girlboss or #infantboss (is it me or do the same people who like MLMs enjoy describing themselves in infantile terms?) while doing freelance writing or photography, or while operating a dog-walking service. It doesn't require massive up-front costs.
-
[quote author=TheGrimSqueaker link=topic=70285.msg1483731#msg1483731
Indeed. Also, most people shouldn't be entrepreneurs or self-employed.
A person can also be a #boyboss or #girlboss or #infantboss (is it me or do the same people who like MLMs enjoy describing themselves in infantile terms?) while doing freelance writing or photography, or while operating a dog-walking service. It doesn't require massive up-front costs.
[/quote]
I have an extended family member who sells Rodan & Fields - they refer to themselves as MoMtrepreneurs. Barf.
-
I have a ton of school-mates on FB who cover the spectrum of every single MLM mentioned here, and probably a few more that aren't listed. It's incredible. I do see that it's exclusively the stay at home mom set that attempts these strategies, and it makes be sad to see soo many of them fall victim to these scams. In many cases, these people are struggling, and they make those struggles public on their page all the time. I noticed one who just yesterday posted a reminder of her LuLaRoe party coming up today, and seeing what y'all have written about the startup costs, I can only imagine that there is some sort of financing that makes even more money to the company, and puts these people who can least afford it in even more debt. This particular mom often complains about the lack of heat and various other problems in her apartment, does the side hustle on occasion of being a blackjack dealer at private parties at very off hours, and has two children with some medical issues that her hubby's insurance doesn't do a great job of covering the cost. Yup, a whole lot of "poor me" in those posts, and now an MLM? Scary and Sad.
I have a neighbor who is all about Plexus and "Think Pink". She often tells these stories of how much weight she's lost (looks the same to me), and how her OB/GYN was thrilled to learn that she's drinking Plexus while pregnant! Yeah, I highly doubt that. Finances have always been tight in the 2 years that she's moved to our reasonably priced neighborhood, but I'm guessing that someone who buys a $200K house and has a $2K mortgage payment probably had no down payment and horrible credit. Now that baby #2 is on the way, they've listed the house for an inflated amount, and the plan is to go back to renting.
However, my all time favorite post from her about Plexus is the attached file. She freely admits that she is at the Ambassador level, and talks about how much $$ she's adding to her HHI, yet this chart disputes her claims, not to mention how biased the chart is, someone did some creative work on that thing! I'm also wondering if the Plexus training program explained to her that this isn't the type of thing you should be posting. I resisted the urge to make any comments, but this shows how clueless she is about the whole thing...
-
If I have to buy something-i.e. put money in your hand to maintain our relationship, that's not friendship that's prostitution.
-
I have that Plexus graph on my wall at work. I keep a "bad bar graph wall of shame". WTH is the scale on that thing!
-
I have that Plexus graph on my wall at work. I keep a "bad bar graph wall of shame". WTH is the scale on that thing!
I feel like someone made some boxes in PowerPoint and put it together that way. Seriously misleading scale.
-
I have that Plexus graph on my wall at work. I keep a "bad bar graph wall of shame". WTH is the scale on that thing!
Looks like maybe a log scale of some sort. I tried making a bar chart in Excel with the log of each number and it came out pretty close.
-
MLM friendship destroyed: My wife's friend was pushing hard to have her both buy her product (face creams etc) and become a rep. She told her how much money she can make yadayada, and she sent her some samples to try out. She started getting more aggressive and my wife finally told her flat out that she wasn't interested. Then the MLM gal got pissy and demanded that my wife return the samples! She wanted the samples that had sat on our bathroom counter back to give to others! I'll bet the stuff was used before us too... My wife said that if she sent her return postage she would drop it off in the mail, but that she wouldn't wait at the post office and pay for postage/box. The MLM gal replied by saying it wasn't worth her time or money to provide postage (but it was fine if we did apparently), she deleted my wife from facebook etc, and probably went on to live a terrible existence alone without any friends.
-
If I have to buy something-i.e. put money in your hand to maintain our relationship, that's not friendship that's prostitution.
Or a purely business relationship that isn't actually a friendship. I'm still stealing this line.
-
I must be the only person on the forums who's exposed to these but not bothered. I've been to a few MLM parties in my life and felt no pressure to buy anything. I have a SIL who sells Mary Kay and another who sold Tupperware; we socialize with no mention of the business. Occasionally I buy a lipstick. It's really not a big deal at all.
Maybe it's because both these SILs sell as a side gig to their real jobs. Neither of them preaches the MLM gospel because neither of them believes it herself. I think for them it's mainly a way to get the product for herself at a discount.
The main reason that everyone mentioned for being bothered was the pressure to buy. If you've never been pressured, it would make sense that you aren't bothered by it. I mentioned something similar in my post. The issue is that many of these companies advocate or require preying on friends and family. Which is generally a turn off.
When a family member tells me "it really works" I expect them to tell me the truth. I was shocked when my sister-in-law told me some face cream "really worked" and then found out she had boxes stacked in her living room that she had to get rid of. I will never trust anything she says again. If she had just asked me for money, I would have felt better about the whole thing.
-
However, my all time favorite post from her about Plexus is the attached file. She freely admits that she is at the Ambassador level, and talks about how much $$ she's adding to her HHI, yet this chart disputes her claims, not to mention how biased the chart is, someone did some creative work on that thing!
If I understand this graph correctly, they are freely admitting that 99.4% of their ambassadors are making less than the USA per capita income. That doesn't sound like a bragging point to me.
-
I think the percentage below the $400 bar is plenty
-
However, my all time favorite post from her about Plexus is the attached file. She freely admits that she is at the Ambassador level, and talks about how much $$ she's adding to her HHI, yet this chart disputes her claims, not to mention how biased the chart is, someone did some creative work on that thing!
If I understand this graph correctly, they are freely admitting that 99.4% of their ambassadors are making less than the USA per capita income. That doesn't sound like a bragging point to me.
But! Half the bars are taller than the US per capita income! That's got to be good!
Hell, 88% are making less than $500. I could do that in a 4 nights of high demand babysitting! (Black Friday- day, New Years-night, Valentine's Day-night, College Town Rivalry-day football game- $500 earned easy.) Seems a lot easier than MLM shilling.
-
Thankfully i don't recognize most of these MLMs. i live a shielded life I guess.
I did know a guy at my last job who pushed Amway. It was a 1000+ employee site and I understand that he had recruited at least 8 or so co-workers who were pushing the same stuff below him.
He was always bragging on how it was just a matter of time before he'd be leaving work in a limousine and kicking back on easy street for the rest of his life.
Well we got hit with a first layoff, and then rounds of layoffs afterwards. His audience began dwindling fast and he became desperate to prove that the Amway was the right way for all his sucker followers.
We must have been down to half the employees when he showed up one day in a tuxedo! and quit. He also rented a limo to pick him up at the front lobby and hammed it up as he drove away.
It was quite the spectacle. I couldn't help but laugh and shake my head. Most people didn't know what the heck was going on.
Within the year he was back on Linked-In scrounging for jobs. Apparently, Amway wasn't the gravy train he promised us all it would be. Bummer about the limo/tuxedo rental costs though. Just weird and embarrassing all-around.
-
FTFY: the Plexus graphs, scaled.
-
FTFY: the Plexus graphs, scaled.
Amazing.
I think people get drawn into the concept of "passive income". When in reality, for most people who do MLMs, they never see that level of it.
The mom I know who sells Usborne books seems to be at quite a high level. Goes to international conferences and all that jazz. And seems more interested in recruiting now than selling books. Once I ask how much commission reps make on the books, and it's usually about 20%. And most books are under $16. Umm, doesn't seem like a great return. No wonder you need to get a team under you.
I should add that I am all for working for yourself - I have a side hustle Etsy shop, and it's great. I made over $12,000 last year profit. And am proud I did it without scamming anyone or shilling crap.
-
I love all of you! Now if only we can submit those real charts and the John Oliver video to all those duped into MLM, maybe then they will get it! On second hand, no, logic and numbers will not sway some people. But I still love all y'all for seeing that Plexus chart for what it is, a load of crap! If you lived near Austin, TX, we'd hang out a lot. :)
-
I have a ton of school-mates on FB who cover the spectrum of every single MLM mentioned here, and probably a few more that aren't listed. It's incredible. I do see that it's exclusively the stay at home mom set that attempts these strategies, and it makes be sad to see soo many of them fall victim to these scams. In many cases, these people are struggling, and they make those struggles public on their page all the time. I noticed one who just yesterday posted a reminder of her LuLaRoe party coming up today, and seeing what y'all have written about the startup costs, I can only imagine that there is some sort of financing that makes even more money to the company, and puts these people who can least afford it in even more debt. This particular mom often complains about the lack of heat and various other problems in her apartment, does the side hustle on occasion of being a blackjack dealer at private parties at very off hours, and has two children with some medical issues that her hubby's insurance doesn't do a great job of covering the cost. Yup, a whole lot of "poor me" in those posts, and now an MLM? Scary and Sad.
I have a neighbor who is all about Plexus and "Think Pink". She often tells these stories of how much weight she's lost (looks the same to me), and how her OB/GYN was thrilled to learn that she's drinking Plexus while pregnant! Yeah, I highly doubt that. Finances have always been tight in the 2 years that she's moved to our reasonably priced neighborhood, but I'm guessing that someone who buys a $200K house and has a $2K mortgage payment probably had no down payment and horrible credit. Now that baby #2 is on the way, they've listed the house for an inflated amount, and the plan is to go back to renting.
However, my all time favorite post from her about Plexus is the attached file. She freely admits that she is at the Ambassador level, and talks about how much $$ she's adding to her HHI, yet this chart disputes her claims, not to mention how biased the chart is, someone did some creative work on that thing! I'm also wondering if the Plexus training program explained to her that this isn't the type of thing you should be posting. I resisted the urge to make any comments, but this shows how clueless she is about the whole thing...
My brain broke on that one... 88% is the first bar, and then everything else is much lower... What scale are they showing-- that $28k average income is nearly the same as $119k income, and about 2-3x $446 income?
-
That Plexus graph is breathtaking. Just breathtaking.
To top it all off, the scale lines aren't even evenly spaced!
-
I think one of the most frustrating things about MLMs to me is that I feel like they are siphoning away the 'true american entrepreneurial spirit'. Where are the babysitting side hustles, and etsy stores, and doing your OWN drop shipping type companies? MLMs aren’t actually self employment, they’re just scalping away the people who WOULD do stuff like that. And it makes other people more gun shy on starting authentic side hustles, because they don't want to be lumped in with the MLM "dirty hustle" feeling- the high pressure sales pitch crap.
-
The Plexus graph has changed a little since it was posted here. Here is the new graph from their website.
See it in the wild here: https://media.plexusworldwide.com/cdn/FINAL-2015-Income-Disclosure-Statement.pdf
-
Ha WOW! From their own website- 90% of the sellers make less than $2,500.
-
The Plexus graph has changed a little since it was posted here. Here is the new graph from their website.
See it in the wild here: https://media.plexusworldwide.com/cdn/FINAL-2015-Income-Disclosure-Statement.pdf
Following your 'in the wild' link: it's even worse than this graph shows... There is a level of 'Associate' that is below even $446 in annual income. The associate already paid an annual fee, but did not yet set up an automatic order for monthly product (required to become an 'ambassador').
-
The Emerald, Sapphire, and Diamond levels make good money though! I wonder how many are in those groups who did not become an Ambassador within the first 2-3 years of the start of the company or were among the first Ambassadors in their area? I bet they don't want you to know that!
-
The Emerald, Sapphire, and Diamond levels make good money though! I wonder how many are in those groups who did not become an Ambassador within the first 2-3 years of the start of the company or were among the first Ambassadors in their area? I bet they don't want you to know that!
If my math is right, for every $1 Million in income paid out, total, there are fewer than 20 persons making over $30k per year, and 2300 reps with auto orders making $5000 or per year (most at $200 to $400 per year).
There are 2 customers for ever rep, on average, too. But I bet the reps with auto orders are the lion's share of the purchasers.
-
...
Does anyone know if Avon is an MLM? I don't think it is.
The Wall Street Journal has an interesting article about Avon in today's edition. https://www.wsj.com/articles/avon-ladies-backed-by-private-equity-aim-to-reconquer-middle-america-1490107605
They compare it to direct sellers such as Herbalife, but I'm with pachnik - I don't think building a downline is their focus. I've met a lot of "Avon ladies" over the years, and none have ever tried to recruit me. They actually seemed territorial, like they didn't want any competition in the neighborhood!
-
Because I find MLM morbidly fascinating and my kiddo took an extra long nap today, I fell down a rabbit hole of LuLaRoe horror stories on Google today and found this:
http://www.mommygyver.com/single-post/2017/03/16/LuLaBullies-and-Consultant-Cannibalism
The blogger has several other posts with her and others' experiences that make me concerned for my friend who sells the stuff. I had figured she was doing well enough with it since she seems to make a lot of sales and is always getting new merchandise in but I sincerely hope she isn't going into debt for it. :-/
-
I had figured she was doing well enough with it since she seems to make a lot of sales and is always getting new merchandise in but I sincerely hope she isn't going into debt for it. :-/
Being your own best customer is certainly not unheard of in these things.
-
My neighbor just got into LuLaRoe and is already totally despondent. It cost 10k to buy in and she was on the wait list for months for an opening. Now that she's in, she's discovered how hard it is, how little support she gets from the mothership, and how disorganized and poorly run that mothership is. She was in tears over the 10k that she's now positive will be a loss.
I just told her I was sorry, but in my head I was thinking, "Yeah, you really would have been better off starting a side hustle on your home computer for no money and working to build something of your own."
LuLaRoe is breaking wide open lately. Leggings falling apart, the Morman sisterhood shunning consultants who say anything remotely negative or question the LLR gospel, illegal tax charging in the US, stock issues, fugly patterns.... I do have two pairs of their leggings and one shirt from before the quality went downhill. The idea of actually becoming a consultant and forking over $10k is insane. Now there are spin-off companies started by other people from the main family - Honey & Lace and Agnes & Dora. This is how these pyramid schemers get away with it, they set up fall-back plans and jump ship once sh*t really hits the fan. There are going to be so many LLR consultants in debt once the dust settles. I feel so bad for them all, but really, no one forced them to sign up. Sure people made false promises that preyed on their hopes. But our society needs to develop critical thinking skills and not poor-me all over life.
I have few pairs of LLR leggings, and I admit to loving them. I refused to even consider buying another pair when they started charging me income tax. I am on on overseas military base, and I don't pay sales tax via an online retailers, because there is no state sales tax since I'm not in a state.
-
Because I find MLM morbidly fascinating and my kiddo took an extra long nap today, I fell down a rabbit hole of LuLaRoe horror stories on Google today and found this:
http://www.mommygyver.com/single-post/2017/03/16/LuLaBullies-and-Consultant-Cannibalism
The blogger has several other posts with her and others' experiences that make me concerned for my friend who sells the stuff. I had figured she was doing well enough with it since she seems to make a lot of sales and is always getting new merchandise in but I sincerely hope she isn't going into debt for it. :-/
Well, your friend could join the 355 on Go Fund Me asking for money to help fund their LuLaRoe consultant business: https://www.gofundme.com/mvc.php?route=category&term=lularoe
I just... there are no words.
-
Because I find MLM morbidly fascinating and my kiddo took an extra long nap today, I fell down a rabbit hole of LuLaRoe horror stories on Google today and found this:
http://www.mommygyver.com/single-post/2017/03/16/LuLaBullies-and-Consultant-Cannibalism
The blogger has several other posts with her and others' experiences that make me concerned for my friend who sells the stuff. I had figured she was doing well enough with it since she seems to make a lot of sales and is always getting new merchandise in but I sincerely hope she isn't going into debt for it. :-/
Well, your friend could join the 355 on Go Fund Me asking for money to help fund their LuLaRoe consultant business: https://www.gofundme.com/mvc.php?route=category&term=lularoe
I just... there are no words.
I clicked your link, thinking I'd like to see what kind of a moron person would start a Go Fund Me to give to LuLaRoe. THERE ARE 357 MORONS PEOPLE LIKE THIS!
-
Our neighbour, who my BF was friends with, started selling essential oils in the past few months. When she started posting on Facebook that some combination of essential oils could help cure your cold this season, my BF sent her message stating that it was dangerous to make unsubstantiated medical claims because it could cost the health of an innocent child if an easily influenced mother used essential oils to treat her child instead of seeing a doctor, for example. Lets just say the relationship has sort of deteriorated since then. The neighbour claims that my BF is doing this on purpose to be an asshole, but he just can't justify encouraging someone who goes so against every scientific fibre of his very being. I've never been close to her for the same reason. It's unfortunate since we cross paths almost daily, but meh, what are ya gonna do.
https://www.google.ca/amp/www.cbc.ca/amp/1.3947694
Is this why your BF gets angry? Treating children with herbal supplements will land you in jail. It was pretty major news in Canada, the preventable death of a 2 year old child who needed antibiotics instead of supplements.
-
Our neighbour, who my BF was friends with, started selling essential oils in the past few months. When she started posting on Facebook that some combination of essential oils could help cure your cold this season, my BF sent her message stating that it was dangerous to make unsubstantiated medical claims because it could cost the health of an innocent child if an easily influenced mother used essential oils to treat her child instead of seeing a doctor, for example. Lets just say the relationship has sort of deteriorated since then. The neighbour claims that my BF is doing this on purpose to be an asshole, but he just can't justify encouraging someone who goes so against every scientific fibre of his very being. I've never been close to her for the same reason. It's unfortunate since we cross paths almost daily, but meh, what are ya gonna do.
https://www.google.ca/amp/www.cbc.ca/amp/1.3947694
Is this why your BF gets angry? Treating children with herbal supplements will land you in jail. It was pretty major news in Canada, the preventable death of a 2 year old child who needed antibiotics instead of supplements.
Horrible parents and their stupid beliefs in holistic healings. Yes, there are plenty of natural remedies for simple aches, pains and symptoms but why would anyone gamble with their kid's life?
Sorry but not one of them deserves to live wile their kids suffer due to their stupidity.
Yes, this is exactly why we both get angry. Because what an idiotic adult does with his/her own body is up to him/her. But as soon as a person's choices effect someone who cannot defend themselves, THAT'S when I take issue with it. And encouraging these things by selling woofuckery and essential oils is ethically reprehensible. Our neighbour lost our respect when she started doing this.
-
This just appeared on my Facebook feed from an MLM friend:
When demand is smaller than the supply, you work harder so you can increase the supply yourself and then in return it helps others out at the same time!
#workinghardtobuymoreandsharewithothers #ifyoucandreamityoucandoit #theresponsehasbeenoverwhelming #faithtrustpixiedust #lovehelpingothersdreamscometrue #icantwaitimaddictedanditsexcitingtohelp #iworkhardtoblessothersinsomanyways
I can't even.
-
My brother got hooked into an MLM and tried to recruit me a few weeks ago. I feel powerless as I don't know what I can do to get him out of there.
-
This just appeared on my Facebook feed from an MLM friend:
When demand is smaller than the supply, you work harder so you can increase the supply yourself and then in return it helps others out at the same time!
#workinghardtobuymoreandsharewithothers #ifyoucandreamityoucandoit #theresponsehasbeenoverwhelming #faithtrustpixiedust #lovehelpingothersdreamscometrue #icantwaitimaddictedanditsexcitingtohelp #iworkhardtoblessothersinsomanyways
I can't even.
Did I read that right -- when supply exceeds demand, you work harder to increase the supply *that no one wants in the first place*?
-
This just appeared on my Facebook feed from an MLM friend:
When demand is smaller than the supply, you work harder so you can increase the supply yourself and then in return it helps others out at the same time!
#workinghardtobuymoreandsharewithothers #ifyoucandreamityoucandoit #theresponsehasbeenoverwhelming #faithtrustpixiedust #lovehelpingothersdreamscometrue #icantwaitimaddictedanditsexcitingtohelp #iworkhardtoblessothersinsomanyways
I can't even.
Did I read that right -- when supply exceeds demand, you work harder to increase the supply *that no one wants in the first place*?
That's how I read it too... and the hashtags are painful.
-
This just appeared on my Facebook feed from an MLM friend:
When demand is smaller than the supply, you work harder so you can increase the supply yourself and then in return it helps others out at the same time!
#workinghardtobuymoreandsharewithothers #ifyoucandreamityoucandoit #theresponsehasbeenoverwhelming #faithtrustpixiedust #lovehelpingothersdreamscometrue #icantwaitimaddictedanditsexcitingtohelp #iworkhardtoblessothersinsomanyways
I can't even.
Did I read that right -- when supply exceeds demand, you work harder to increase the supply *that no one wants in the first place*?
That's how I read it too... and the hashtags are painful.
Ohhh I don't know....#faithtrustpixiedust might be the best thing I have read on the internet today.
-
Quickly reading the hashtags... this is what I thought one said:
#icantwaitimaddictedanditsexcitingtohelp
I can't wait i'm addicted and sex is exciting....
-
The Plexus graph has changed a little since it was posted here. Here is the new graph from their website.
See it in the wild here: https://media.plexusworldwide.com/cdn/FINAL-2015-Income-Disclosure-Statement.pdf
As an accountant, I always think it is amusing when they quote income vs. net income. I believe that they are talking about revenue vs. profits. One of my partners showed up to a MLM event where the main guy was talking about how he made over a million last year. He did the guys taxes and went back and checked his taxable income was around a $100k and he was the main guy for Washington State. So lots of exaggerations and use of income when most people think of that as how much you made vs. revenue before product costs, business expenses, etc.
On a side note, my wife would go to a number of these MLM scams each year with her girlfriends. She claimed it was about the socializing. I said, "Why don't you just have a dinner party and enjoy your friends" She has been doing more of the dinner party events and her other girlfriends have been having more at home socializing. I was also pushing a party where everyone brings their favorite bottle of wine and talks about it. Then you do a Secret Santa type thing where people get to pick, steal, and bring home a bottle of wine that they have not tried. I figured it would be like a MLM where you are excited to bring something home. The fact that you brought a bottle is the same as if you brought your wallet and bought some overpriced MLM item.
-
This just appeared on my Facebook feed from an MLM friend:
When demand is smaller than the supply, you work harder so you can increase the supply yourself and then in return it helps others out at the same time!
#workinghardtobuymoreandsharewithothers #ifyoucandreamityoucandoit #theresponsehasbeenoverwhelming #faithtrustpixiedust #lovehelpingothersdreamscometrue #icantwaitimaddictedanditsexcitingtohelp #iworkhardtoblessothersinsomanyways
I can't even.
Did I read that right -- when supply exceeds demand, you work harder to increase the supply *that no one wants in the first place*?
I think she meant she was going to increase demand by buying stuff from her own MLM. But the fallacy of either interpretation made me want to smash my head into the glass covering my Economics degree diploma. I feel like I died a little bit when I read it.
-
This just appeared on my Facebook feed from an MLM friend:
When demand is smaller than the supply, you work harder so you can increase the supply yourself and then in return it helps others out at the same time!
#workinghardtobuymoreandsharewithothers #ifyoucandreamityoucandoit #theresponsehasbeenoverwhelming #faithtrustpixiedust #lovehelpingothersdreamscometrue #icantwaitimaddictedanditsexcitingtohelp #iworkhardtoblessothersinsomanyways
I can't even.
Did I read that right -- when supply exceeds demand, you work harder to increase the supply *that no one wants in the first place*?
I think she meant she was going to increase demand by buying stuff from her own MLM. But the fallacy of either interpretation made me want to smash my head into the glass covering my Economics degree diploma. I feel like I died a little bit when I read it.
I only studied economics in high school, but I find it pretty painful as well. Maybe I should show the John Oliver MLM clip during my comedy unit this year. If only he didn't cuss so much... I'll have to keep my hand on the volume control the entire time.
-
I only studied economics in high school, but I find it pretty painful as well. Maybe I should show the John Oliver MLM clip during my comedy unit this year. If only he didn't cuss so much... I'll have to keep my hand on the volume control the entire time.
Maybe make your own edited version? There's a lot of free video editing software, wouldn't be hard to bleep out some cuss words.
-
I had a former coworker that I hadn't heard from in 5-6 years send a text to ask if I wanted to host a Pure Romance (women's sex toys) party. Talk about an MLM that's a hard sell...
Anyway, this text was so ultra generic (one of the pre-made picture ads, no inclusion of my name or the seller's name, nothing to indicate how I should have known who the seller was), I thought it was a marketing spam text and replied "unsubscribe". Hadn't heard from this woman in so long, I didn't have her number saved and didn't recognize it. Unfortunately, instead of a laugh and a "thanks-but-no-thanks-and-good-luck" exchange, I got treated to a mini-lecture about how sending "unsubscribe" back was being rude to a friend that sent me a personal birthday message and while it was okay to not be interested, it wasn't okay to belittle someone who is just trying to grow her business. It was really jarring -- the only time I've heard from you is when you want to sell me something I'm not interested in buying, and you're somehow offended during this exchange? Really?!
Easy end to the story -- I blocked her number and parted ways with her on social media. Even so, I still stayed irrationally angry about the whole situation for days afterwards.
The issue is that many of these companies advocate or require preying on friends and family. Which is generally a turn off.
This, right here.
There's an emotional piece that makes the MLM sales strategies work -- you're more willing to let a friend or family member make the sales pitch (which is half the battle of making the sale) because it's someone you know and trust. Then, at the end of the pitch, the moderate-to-high pressure tactics are more effective because you're reluctant to sour a family, work, or friend relationship with someone you might continue to see for decades. If you're geared to avoid emotional conflict or social anxiety, chances are high you'll buy to avoid having to say no to this person.
But I also think that's what makes it feel so violating. I feel like anybody who knows me well should know how I feel about MLM companies and should have a pretty good idea that I'm not buying. So, when I get approached by someone I feel should know that about me, I feel like the MLM company turned someone I trusted into an undercover enemy. Even though I'm still going to say no, I don't view our friendship the same way any more, and that sucks.
-
was being rude to a friend that sent me a personal birthday message and while it was okay to not be interested, it wasn't okay to belittle someone who is just trying to grow her business.
If you have to shamelessly send unsolicited advertisements to your friends to "grow your business" - it won't.
-
This just appeared on my Facebook feed from an MLM friend:
When demand is smaller than the supply, you work harder so you can increase the supply yourself and then in return it helps others out at the same time!
#workinghardtobuymoreandsharewithothers #ifyoucandreamityoucandoit #theresponsehasbeenoverwhelming #faithtrustpixiedust #lovehelpingothersdreamscometrue #icantwaitimaddictedanditsexcitingtohelp #iworkhardtoblessothersinsomanyways
I can't even.
Did I read that right -- when supply exceeds demand, you work harder to increase the supply *that no one wants in the first place*?
I think she meant she was going to increase demand by buying stuff from her own MLM. But the fallacy of either interpretation made me want to smash my head into the glass covering my Economics degree diploma. I feel like I died a little bit when I read it.
I only studied economics in high school, but I find it pretty painful as well. Maybe I should show the John Oliver MLM clip during my comedy unit this year. If only he didn't cuss so much... I'll have to keep my hand on the volume control the entire time.
Surely they meant you work harder to increase the demand?! Right? By getting out there and selling? Right?!
This thread has been so fun. I HATE the #girlboss thing, the "entrepreneur" thing, calling themselves "CEOs". REALLY? You're a CEO? In a company of 1?
Especially as a person who actually has built a (tiny) business... ugh! How are these people this stupid.
I actually follow a beachbody coach and a few of her uplines on fb for much the same reason I read this thread. Because it's so embarrassingly entertaining.
I looked at the lularoe gofundme page and clicked on a sad mom who is a nurse (?!?!?) and her son has autism so she needs money to start her own lularoe business?! Omg this poor woman. I just can't even. Don't nurses make good money? Can't she pick up extra shifts? So sad, just so sad that these people think shelling out $8000 is going to save them. How is anyone going to sell $8000 in leggings?
-
One of my high school classmates is deep into "It Works," which seems to be one of the worst offenders in MLM's, not only because of the pyramid scheme aspect but because all the products are junk. She's posting 15-20 times a day about how great it is to "work for myself," "be my own boss," etc. It's about selling the lifestyle as much as selling the products, because you can only make any money by recruiting as many people as you can.
The other day she posted a graphic showing what people at each "level" make--what it doesn't tell you is that 98% of people are likely in the bottom two levels. One of her friends started asking her pointed questions like, "How much do YOU actually take home?" and she ignored all of them.
-
I can't believe these MLMs are even a thing in 2017. You'd think the collective conscious would know better by now.
I suppose we can look around at other topics and see that a portion of each generation always falls for the same lies and promises. That portion never pops the hood to see what makes a business like this "go".
-
Man, I used to be an intern for a local artist in my hometown over summers. He had some financial struggles, but he was quite popular within his community, and his work over the time I was helping him was about struggles in fatherhood.
I followed him on instagram, went back off to college, and over the course of my Junior year he kept posting more and more about some MLM he was involved in- some sort of supplement. He was REALLY, GENUINELY excited about it, and because he had a big network of people following him he was actually doing super well with it. Talking about being able to fix his car, stuff like that- and it was so sad to watch because he seemed to believe it was this cure-all to financial woes and wanted to share it with everybody. I think that's part of what's so terrible about it- at some level of influence/visibility it really can work, and then all these people who admire and trust that person get screwed, without that person even meaning to take advantage.
-
I can't believe these MLMs are even a thing in 2017. You'd think the collective conscious would know better by now.
I suppose we can look around at other topics and see that a portion of each generation always falls for the same lies and promises. That portion never pops the hood to see what makes a business like this "go".
The Ponzi scheme was invented almost a century ago, but it still takes people in despite there being systems in place to stop it. Enough people in each generation strive for a "get rich quick" scheme so the demand doesn't have much effect on the supply. What amazes me in the Google generation where too many people "do their research" with a few keystrokes on political, environmental, and health issues can't apply that towards looking up the name of the company peddling some idea to them before jumping on board.
-
The Ponzi scheme was invented almost a century ago, but it still takes people in despite there being systems in place to stop it. Enough people in each generation strive for a "get rich quick" scheme so the demand doesn't have much affect on the supply. What amazes me in the Google generation where too many people "do their research" with a few keystrokes on political, environmental, and health issues can't apply that towards looking up the name of the company peddling some idea to them before jumping on board.
It's not that easy. Try to type any of these MLM's names followed by "scam" in a search engine, and you will find that the majority of the first results are disguised ads for the product, from distributors who use SEO to their advantage.
As a result, someone who would use due diligence and search in google would find a vast majority of seemingly independent sites claiming that the company is fine and the products are great. Heck, you even have billionaires nowadays pretending MLM is a perfectly valid business, not to mention celebrities paid to endorse the thing.
-
I can't believe these MLMs are even a thing in 2017. You'd think the collective conscious would know better by now.
I suppose we can look around at other topics and see that a portion of each generation always falls for the same lies and promises. That portion never pops the hood to see what makes a business like this "go".
You'd think people would know better than to fall for phishing scams, too, but that's still a huge problem!
-
The Ponzi scheme was invented almost a century ago, but it still takes people in despite there being systems in place to stop it. Enough people in each generation strive for a "get rich quick" scheme so the demand doesn't have much affect on the supply. What amazes me in the Google generation where too many people "do their research" with a few keystrokes on political, environmental, and health issues can't apply that towards looking up the name of the company peddling some idea to them before jumping on board.
It's not that easy. Try to type any of these MLM's names followed by "scam" in a search engine, and you will find that the majority of the first results are disguised ads for the product, from distributors who use SEO to their advantage.
As a result, someone who would use due diligence and search in google would find a vast majority of seemingly independent sites claiming that the company is fine and the products are great. Heck, you even have billionaires nowadays pretending MLM is a perfectly valid business, not to mention celebrities paid to endorse the thing.
I've never experienced that. I usually type in "review" and come up with BBB and Consumer Reports-type sites. As for your last comment, maybe its my aversion to television, but just because someone is famous doesn't make me love a product more. I expect plenty of other folks put their trust in famous people.
-
You are all my spirit animals. Come for the MLM shaming....stay for the shitty graphs!
A few of my friends use Facebook to sell their MLM crap. It sure makes for a boring timeline. Especially bad when they use posts/words/phrases clearly taken from the handbook. I guess I wish for my friends to be smarter. And the hashtags, oh the hashtags. Some hijack even birthday parties by bringing samples and talking-up their products. It's obnoxious.
But I have one friend who does Beachbody that I actually respect. She created a separate Facebook account - like a business page - for her "business". She uses that account for all posts related to Beachbody. Her personal account is still about her kids, her soccer, etc. Very rarely she'll promote her business page from her personal account. And when she does, that doesn't bug me because I just see that as good business. I think having a separate business page is the key to my respect.
-
One of my high school classmates is deep into "It Works," which seems to be one of the worst offenders in MLM's, not only because of the pyramid scheme aspect but because all the products are junk. She's posting 15-20 times a day about how great it is to "work for myself," "be my own boss," etc. It's about selling the lifestyle as much as selling the products, because you can only make any money by recruiting as many people as you can.
The other day she posted a graphic showing what people at each "level" make--what it doesn't tell you is that 98% of people are likely in the bottom two levels. One of her friends started asking her pointed questions like, "How much do YOU actually take home?" and she ignored all of them.
I agree. Whenever I get pitched an It Works product (I'm a skinny male of median height) I always ask to see the product ingredients list. There isn't any on the packaging. How the heck can they sell health products (including wraps, energy drinks, and add-to-water weight loss) without adhering to FDA labeling guidelines? And why are all these idiots buying stuff without knowing what's inside?
I'm going to start a sugar-water MLM and call it MMMwater. All profits after my retirement investments will go to this wonderful community.
-
One of my high school classmates is deep into "It Works," which seems to be one of the worst offenders in MLM's, not only because of the pyramid scheme aspect but because all the products are junk. She's posting 15-20 times a day about how great it is to "work for myself," "be my own boss," etc. It's about selling the lifestyle as much as selling the products, because you can only make any money by recruiting as many people as you can.
The other day she posted a graphic showing what people at each "level" make--what it doesn't tell you is that 98% of people are likely in the bottom two levels. One of her friends started asking her pointed questions like, "How much do YOU actually take home?" and she ignored all of them.
Jinga you're forgetting an essential fact. All of these MMM are started by white people, if brown people like us jump into the marketplace then the government will show up and actually pass restrictions.
I agree. Whenever I get pitched an It Works product (I'm a skinny male of median height) I always ask to see the product ingredients list. There isn't any on the packaging. How the heck can they sell health products (including wraps, energy drinks, and add-to-water weight loss) without adhering to FDA labeling guidelines? And why are all these idiots buying stuff without knowing what's inside?
I'm going to start a sugar-water MLM and call it MMMwater. All profits after my retirement investments will go to this wonderful community.
-
One of my high school classmates is deep into "It Works," which seems to be one of the worst offenders in MLM's, not only because of the pyramid scheme aspect but because all the products are junk. She's posting 15-20 times a day about how great it is to "work for myself," "be my own boss," etc. It's about selling the lifestyle as much as selling the products, because you can only make any money by recruiting as many people as you can.
The other day she posted a graphic showing what people at each "level" make--what it doesn't tell you is that 98% of people are likely in the bottom two levels. One of her friends started asking her pointed questions like, "How much do YOU actually take home?" and she ignored all of them.
I agree. Whenever I get pitched an It Works product (I'm a skinny male of median height) I always ask to see the product ingredients list. There isn't any on the packaging. How the heck can they sell health products (including wraps, energy drinks, and add-to-water weight loss) without adhering to FDA labeling guidelines? And why are all these idiots buying stuff without knowing what's inside?
I'm going to start a sugar-water MLM and call it MMMwater. All profits after my retirement investments will go to this wonderful community.
I don't know FDA labeling guidelines, but was anyone you asked able to tell you what was in the products? Pretty easy to find on their website so there's no reason why the person trying to sell it couldn't easily tell you what is in it.
Here is the one for their Greens Blend. (https://static.myitworks.com/productsheets/303/303-productinfo-en.pdf)
And Holy Shit!! I had never heard of It Works before it was mentioned and some of this stuff seems absolutely ridiculous! Just reading the guide for this (http://static.myitworks.com/themes/rws-v3/system3/assets/pdf/IWSystems-Guide-us-en.pdf) makes me want to tell everyone not to use it.
-
One of my high school classmates is deep into "It Works," which seems to be one of the worst offenders in MLM's, not only because of the pyramid scheme aspect but because all the products are junk. She's posting 15-20 times a day about how great it is to "work for myself," "be my own boss," etc. It's about selling the lifestyle as much as selling the products, because you can only make any money by recruiting as many people as you can.
The other day she posted a graphic showing what people at each "level" make--what it doesn't tell you is that 98% of people are likely in the bottom two levels. One of her friends started asking her pointed questions like, "How much do YOU actually take home?" and she ignored all of them.
I agree. Whenever I get pitched an It Works product (I'm a skinny male of median height) I always ask to see the product ingredients list. There isn't any on the packaging. How the heck can they sell health products (including wraps, energy drinks, and add-to-water weight loss) without adhering to FDA labeling guidelines? And why are all these idiots buying stuff without knowing what's inside?
I'm going to start a sugar-water MLM and call it MMMwater. All profits after my retirement investments will go to this wonderful community.
I don't know FDA labeling guidelines, but was anyone you asked able to tell you what was in the products? Pretty easy to find on their website so there's no reason why the person trying to sell it couldn't easily tell you what is in it.
Here is the one for their Greens Blend. (https://static.myitworks.com/productsheets/303/303-productinfo-en.pdf)
And Holy Shit!! I had never heard of It Works before it was mentioned and some of this stuff seems absolutely ridiculous! Just reading the guide for this (http://static.myitworks.com/themes/rws-v3/system3/assets/pdf/IWSystems-Guide-us-en.pdf) makes me want to tell everyone not to use it.
Hahahahaha, NO. They told me it was gluten-free, soy-free, vegan, etc. in different flavors, just like in that data sheet. Peddlers should know their product inside out. Bring your A-game to my BS-detect-radar. Let's play some mental rugby and make this fun. What's a sale without some competitive verbal jousting and haggling? Ain't no fun in the boring shit!
-
I still have a lot of friends and relatives back on Hillbilly Mountain and a lot of them are involved in these pyramid schemes -- and that's what MLM is, so let's call a spade a spade. Pyramid schemes prey on very desperate people. The last thing someone living in a trailer on welfare needs is to end up being fooled by snakeoil salesmen into buying hundreds of dollars of a product they will never be able to sell. And that's how these pyramid schemes always end up. I know so many people with a pantry full of self-purchased, overpriced Amway non-perishable food.
Hear, hear. I called out pyramid scheme when a poor, vulnerable friend started mentioning one scheme she was involved in. She is a SAHM with no income as her husband is too cheap (not frugal) to even give her money. She stopped mentioning her MLM after that. One woeful story she told me was one meeting I said I was too busy to attend - nobody attended. Now she's left with hundreds of $s worth of products. She is the type of person MLMs love - desperate and poor.
Another gave me a cleanser sample - which felt nice on my face but I knew it was another MLM and no way I was going to participate in the Ponzi. I just pity people who get sucked in these MLMs...it's just not right.
-
My personal favorite MLM moment came many years ago when some of my father's relatives came to visit. One, a particularly obnoxious in-law, started in on his MLM spiel and tried to push his packaged, heavily processed "nutrition bars" on us. This was after a great deal of sexist, stupid behavior on his part that made me long to pick up one of my mother's heavy brass lamps and swing it at the side of his head.
Ever the irritating teenager, I picked up one of the bars and started to read the dizzying array of additives and chemicals, while this 60-year-old blathered on about how he had the body of a 29-year-old.
"Which one of the ingredients is the hallucinogen?" I asked.
My parents were too busy trying not to laugh to punish me for being rude to a guest.
-
One of my high school classmates is deep into "It Works," which seems to be one of the worst offenders in MLM's, not only because of the pyramid scheme aspect but because all the products are junk. She's posting 15-20 times a day about how great it is to "work for myself," "be my own boss," etc. It's about selling the lifestyle as much as selling the products, because you can only make any money by recruiting as many people as you can.
The other day she posted a graphic showing what people at each "level" make--what it doesn't tell you is that 98% of people are likely in the bottom two levels. One of her friends started asking her pointed questions like, "How much do YOU actually take home?" and she ignored all of them.
I agree. Whenever I get pitched an It Works product (I'm a skinny male of median height) I always ask to see the product ingredients list. There isn't any on the packaging. How the heck can they sell health products (including wraps, energy drinks, and add-to-water weight loss) without adhering to FDA labeling guidelines? And why are all these idiots buying stuff without knowing what's inside?
I'm going to start a sugar-water MLM and call it MMMwater. All profits after my retirement investments will go to this wonderful community.
I don't know FDA labeling guidelines, but was anyone you asked able to tell you what was in the products? Pretty easy to find on their website so there's no reason why the person trying to sell it couldn't easily tell you what is in it.
Here is the one for their Greens Blend. (https://static.myitworks.com/productsheets/303/303-productinfo-en.pdf)
And Holy Shit!! I had never heard of It Works before it was mentioned and some of this stuff seems absolutely ridiculous! Just reading the guide for this (http://static.myitworks.com/themes/rws-v3/system3/assets/pdf/IWSystems-Guide-us-en.pdf) makes me want to tell everyone not to use it.
Hahahahaha, NO. They told me it was gluten-free, soy-free, vegan, etc. in different flavors, just like in that data sheet. Peddlers should know their product inside out. Bring your A-game to my BS-detect-radar. Let's play some mental rugby and make this fun. What's a sale without some competitive verbal jousting and haggling? Ain't no fun in the boring shit!
But - it's all in the brand name - "IT WORKS"!! What more is there to know? ;P
Where do I sign up for MMMwater, it sounds delicious AND nutritious!
-
B/c of this thread I'm more aware of the topic lately. There are so many SUVs rolling around town with the logo of one MLM or another on the back window.
-
It Works = It's Got What Plants Crave?
You don't need to know what's in it, or how it works... It Works!
-
It Works = It's Got What Plants Crave?
You don't need to know what's in it, or how it works... It Works!
Electrolytes!!
-
Anyone posted this pic yet in the thread? It's my stock reply on FB to this crap.
(http://i.imgur.com/VnzEnNX.jpg)
-
Because I find MLM morbidly fascinating and my kiddo took an extra long nap today, I fell down a rabbit hole of LuLaRoe horror stories on Google today and found this:
http://www.mommygyver.com/single-post/2017/03/16/LuLaBullies-and-Consultant-Cannibalism
The blogger has several other posts with her and others' experiences that make me concerned for my friend who sells the stuff. I had figured she was doing well enough with it since she seems to make a lot of sales and is always getting new merchandise in but I sincerely hope she isn't going into debt for it. :-/
Well, your friend could join the 355 on Go Fund Me asking for money to help fund their LuLaRoe consultant business: https://www.gofundme.com/mvc.php?route=category&term=lularoe
I just... there are no words.
I clicked your link, thinking I'd like to see what kind of a moron person would start a Go Fund Me to give to LuLaRoe. THERE ARE 357 MORONS PEOPLE LIKE THIS!
Oh, good grief! I cannot believe there are people doing these campaigns. One woman mentioned about donating to her LuLaRoe campaign would be helping get her family financially to a better place. Ugh.
-
I do have a friend who is doing really well with LuLuRoe. (of course I haven't seen her financial statements, but she seems to have a lot of sales and she's even won a cruise with it)
But I keep wondering how many pairs of ugly leggings can people need? Won't this just run it's course like Pampered Chef and Tupperware?
I also had a friend post on facebook a nice "enjoying my day" post with the hashtag "residual income". Barf. She sells Isagenix. Although I don't actually know anyone who has bought anything from her.
-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=07aoF6OMF0U
-
I do buy Pampered Chef items occasionally and, overall, like their products.
I've bought Mary Kay before....there is a website called "Pink Truth" which offers up some info. It makes for some interesting reading.
And, years ago, was approached by a woman at school trying to sell some vitamins and blah, blah, blah, etc. I had to walk away.
What I do not like is when people from church are involved in selling these items. I try to buy one item, but that's really all I want--not interested in hosting a party or otherwise. It's the fastest way to ruin relationships.
-
Oh, good grief! I cannot believe there are people doing these campaigns. One woman mentioned about donating to her LuLaRoe campaign would be helping get her family financially to a better place. Ugh.
Yes and if you give me money it would help me get to a financially to a better place. Money does that.
-
This didn't impact me, but was kind of sad to see my neighbor go through this. She was a District Manager for a large Pharma company (making really good money), she said she couldn't handle the stress and quit. Okay, fair enough. Then she went on a spiritual journey. She studied alternative nutrition and oils with the hopes of being a consultant ($8k for certificate). Now, I'm all about alternative healing, and I find the subject fascinating. She has good selling skills, so I thought she might actually do okay. But, then she started talking all 'new wavish' and about her 'third eye' and 'enlightenment' and totally lost me. Conversations got weird.
Then she was hand-dyeing scarfs and trying to sell them.
Then she signed up with a medical recruiting company ($30k buy in for her territory - took out a 2nd mortgage). She was to call prospects to build her network AND call pharma companies to get them to retain her as a search agent. So what exactly was the $30k for, the company provided little in the way of leads! Sad.
All the while, her husband was a General Contractor busting his butt to keep the lifestyle they had when she was making almost $200k.
Eventually they sold the house and moved away.... not sure what happened to them.
-
...she's even won a cruise with it...
The cruise is for people doing $12k in sales a month for four consecutive months. The wholesale cost of their lauded leggings is $18 and the typical selling price is $40/2 so $20/each. This is below their advertised retail price of $25/each. So, on average if they are concentrating on leggings, which appears to be the cornerstone of the brand, they are selling at least 600 pairs of leggings a month with a 10% profit margin, which I believe is typical for clothing retail. With this $2 margin, that gives a whopping monthly income of $1,200, presuming $0 advertising or other costs.
Like all MLMs the profit happens when you build your pyramid...err, team:
http://www.lularoe.com/income-disclosure-statement/
-
...she's even won a cruise with it...
The cruise is for people doing $12k in sales a month for four consecutive months. The wholesale cost of their lauded leggings is $18 and the typical selling price is $40/2 so $20/each. This is below their advertised retail price of $25/each. So, on average if they are concentrating on leggings, which appears to be the cornerstone of the brand, they are selling at least 600 pairs of leggings a month with a 10% profit margin, which I believe is typical for clothing retail. With this $2 margin, that gives a whopping monthly income of $1,200, presuming $0 advertising or other costs.
Like all MLMs the profit happens when you build your pyramid...err, team:
http://www.lularoe.com/income-disclosure-statement/
oh cool.
Based on that link and her posts I bet they are pulling in about $60k. I know that she has posted that she is trainer level working on getting to coach level.
I think she is an example of someone who got in at the exact right time, very early, and was one of the only consultants in her area for awhile.
IMHO the mistake is thinking that this revenue stream will last.
-
I do buy Pampered Chef items occasionally and, overall, like their products.
I've bought Mary Kay before....there is a website called "Pink Truth" which offers up some info. It makes for some interesting reading.
And, years ago, was approached by a woman at school trying to sell some vitamins and blah, blah, blah, etc. I had to walk away.
What I do not like is when people from church are involved in selling these items. I try to buy one item, but that's really all I want--not interested in hosting a party or otherwise. It's the fastest way to ruin relationships.
One of the things that bums me out about these MLM scams is that they take advantage of this kind of low-grade affinity fraud. It seems huge with the Mormons here in Utah.
-
Well, your friend could join the 355 on Go Fund Me asking for money to help fund their LuLaRoe consultant business: https://www.gofundme.com/mvc.php?route=category&term=lularoe
I just... there are no words.
Another case of "I want to follow my dream with your money".
-
I do buy Pampered Chef items occasionally and, overall, like their products.
I've bought Mary Kay before....there is a website called "Pink Truth" which offers up some info. It makes for some interesting reading.
And, years ago, was approached by a woman at school trying to sell some vitamins and blah, blah, blah, etc. I had to walk away.
What I do not like is when people from church are involved in selling these items. I try to buy one item, but that's really all I want--not interested in hosting a party or otherwise. It's the fastest way to ruin relationships.
One of the things that bums me out about these MLM scams is that they take advantage of this kind of low-grade affinity fraud. It seems huge with the Mormons here in Utah.
Is it a religious traditional thing? My friend (Catholic and subservient to hubby) above is religious. MLMs are great for SAHPs but I wonder if there's an extra element in being religious and being vulnerable to MLMs.
Too bad the Bible doesn't mention anything against Ponzi schemes :-/
-
The Bible said some stuff about moneylenders in the temple, and it didn't take too kindly to unrepentant thieves and usury.
I can't speak for all religious folks, but my crowd avoids this MLM shit like the plague. My suspicion is that a lot of women (and men) misinterpret the Bible to believe they have to be SAHM. When that causes financial stress and they feel isolated because the only people they talk to are under the age of five, they look for ways to get out of the house. MLM people prey on them and wrap their scheme up in the Bible, which is how we get hashtags talking about how working for lulu blesses other people.
It's not a religious tradition. It's greedy people preying on lonely and poorly instructed religious people.
-
The Bible said some stuff about moneylenders in the temple, and it didn't take too kindly to unrepentant thieves and usury.
Always remember, when the question is "What Would Jesus Do?", sometimes the answer is "Flip over some tables and kick some ass."
-
I think religious folks who are in congregations that emphasize small group spirituality, intentionally reaching out to others or evangelization, and forming strong relationship bonds with those in your faith community are particularly attractive and and attracted to MLMs. They already have many of the skills needs: striking conversations with those you don't know well, creating a sense of community rather quickly for a common goal, etc. They also come with their own built in sales field of people they know. Churched folks tend to know many more people outside of work and family than non-churched. You add in a dose of affinity bias in making business decisions and I think it explains why there is so much overlap in MLMs and certain Christian churches. I think it goes much deeper than "they are gullible enough to believe in a Flying Spaghetti Monster so they'll fall for anything" assumption.
-
This was many years ago, but I love the story so much I want to share it. My mom had a few Cutco knives that she'd reluctantly bought from a friend. Several years later, one of her students had become a Cutco rep and asked if they could "practice" their spiel on us. Knowing exactly what this was going to be, Mom prepared very carefully: she hid all the low quality knives in the house and kept in the knife block the old Cutco knives (which were of course very disappointing, dulled quickly, etc) along with a few newer knives she'd picked up at BigLots that were probably both the best quality and cheapest knives I've ever worked with. So the student comes in and goes through the sales pitch, setting up to show off how great the knives are. Since we already have some, we are happy to dispute the story that the contoured handles are comfortable and easy to use - in reality they restrict you to holding in a particular way and heaven help you if you have larger or smaller hands. Student blows past this, of course. One of the demos they do is cutting a piece of rope. So Mom takes the Cutco knife and cuts the rope - one, two, three strokes. Student goes all "isn't that amazing, just three strokes to cut through that rope! Now let's compare it to the knives you have here, so we can see how much better ours are." Mom takes her cheap BigLots knives - one stroke, straight down to the cutting board. Left the student speechless. Especially since you know they sharpen theirs before every visit, and ours hadn't been sharpened since they were bought.
After that, Mom had to go on to her next student and left met to walk them out - and they still tried to sell me on getting her a set of steak knives as a gift, since we "didn't have any" (actually, we did, they were just in hiding for this episode.) I was flabbergasted. We'd spent the entire time complaining about how uncomfortable and dull the knives were, and they still thought they could sell me more of them?
-
This was many years ago, but I love the story so much I want to share it. My mom had a few Cutco knives that she'd reluctantly bought from a friend. Several years later, one of her students had become a Cutco rep and asked if they could "practice" their spiel on us. Knowing exactly what this was going to be, Mom prepared very carefully: she hid all the low quality knives in the house and kept in the knife block the old Cutco knives (which were of course very disappointing, dulled quickly, etc) along with a few newer knives she'd picked up at BigLots that were probably both the best quality and cheapest knives I've ever worked with. So the student comes in and goes through the sales pitch, setting up to show off how great the knives are. Since we already have some, we are happy to dispute the story that the contoured handles are comfortable and easy to use - in reality they restrict you to holding in a particular way and heaven help you if you have larger or smaller hands. Student blows past this, of course. One of the demos they do is cutting a piece of rope. So Mom takes the Cutco knife and cuts the rope - one, two, three strokes. Student goes all "isn't that amazing, just three strokes to cut through that rope! Now let's compare it to the knives you have here, so we can see how much better ours are." Mom takes her cheap BigLots knives - one stroke, straight down to the cutting board. Left the student speechless. Especially since you know they sharpen theirs before every visit, and ours hadn't been sharpened since they were bought.
After that, Mom had to go on to her next student and left met to walk them out - and they still tried to sell me on getting her a set of steak knives as a gift, since we "didn't have any" (actually, we did, they were just in hiding for this episode.) I was flabbergasted. We'd spent the entire time complaining about how uncomfortable and dull the knives were, and they still thought they could sell me more of them?
I actually sold Cutco for a few days a loooong time ago. I still have the knives from my demo set and love them. They have never been sharpened and they are better than any other knife we've had from cheap to high end. Everyone else I know who owns any Cutco knives says the same thing. I'm not fan of the company or the scheme obviously, but even so.
-
I thought Cutco was a generic name like ACME used to protect the very real brand. ;)
-
One of my students practiced a Cutco spiel on me, guided by her trainer/recruiter. She had me saw through the rope with my (professional chef quality) knife, then had me use a totally different motion when using the Cutco knife. I then used that same motion with my knife and cut the rope much more easily.
I don't think Cutco is necessarily crap, but I don't like dishonest marketing tricks like that and pointed it out.
-
I actually sold Cutco for a few days a loooong time ago. I still have the knives from my demo set and love them. They have never been sharpened and they are better than any other knife we've had from cheap to high end. Everyone else I know who owns any Cutco knives says the same thing. I'm not fan of the company or the scheme obviously, but even so.
Not everyone you know, anymore ;) I found that the contoured grip really hurt my hand when I was cutting for any length of time, a problem I've never had with any other brand. I now use ceramic knives, and I find them much more comfortable and stay sharper than Cutco (which my mom gave me when I moved out, since she was fed up with them.) YMMV, obviously.
-
Cutco makes well-polished and fit knives out of a middling steel far better known for its corrosion resistance than holding an edge. They get away with a lot by using the double-d serration pattern, but their paring and Chef's knives are only so-so over time, and just plain bad for the price. Not the worst option for a home look looking for low-maintenance knives though.
-
My neighbor just got into LuLaRoe and is already totally despondent. It cost 10k to buy in and she was on the wait list for months for an opening. Now that she's in, she's discovered how hard it is, how little support she gets from the mothership, and how disorganized and poorly run that mothership is. She was in tears over the 10k that she's now positive will be a loss.
I just told her I was sorry, but in my head I was thinking, "Yeah, you really would have been better off starting a side hustle on your home computer for no money and working to build something of your own."
How well you do with Lularoe must be dependent on who you signed up under and how well you can market yourself. My SIL is making a killing selling it. The mothership might be awful, but her upline is wonderful I guess. AND, she's really good at permoting herself. Personally, I don't like the clothes (if I hear the term buttery soft one more time I swear I'm going to...) and have not bought anything from her. Thankfully she has never bothered me with it, but she doesn't need to. I was in her FB group but got out because it sickened me the cult she has following her. Really people, you just spent $150 on 3 items, and you're back for more a few days later. "oh, but that pattern is my unicorn". She has been doing it for a year, and will probably make close to 6 figures this year. I kid you not. THAT is how well she has marketed herself. If it wasn't for Facebook, Lularoe would NOT be as big as it is. I don't know why FB allows all the parties (from every MLM). But since they do, one would think they would cash in on it somehow. To my knowledge they have not yet done so.
-
We've hoped for years that my aunt would disentangle herself from a vitamin-peddling MLM scheme, but she's as firmly entrenched as ever. She fervently believes in this company's "health mission" and eagerly parrots every line of bullshit they feed her. As often as she can, she travels out-of-state to "conferences" where the brainwashing continues with PowerPoint presentations (full of data from bogus studies paid for by the mothership) and motivational speeches.
The photos she proudly shares of these events are always sad. Mostly she's surrounded by underemployed women in their fifties who long to be taken seriously, to be accepted as an expert in something, but their lack of scientific knowledge is staggering and their sales pitches to the chronically ill are nonsensical and wildly insensitive. Basically, if you're sick, you aren't trying hard enough. We have the power to heal ourselves through nutrition, and their products can help.
I've noticed many of her associates are fond of sharing memes suggesting that prescription drugs are a scam, which always makes me chuckle. Generic immunosuppressants to control diseases that might otherwise land me in the hospital cost $10 for a 90-day supply. The immune-boosting vitamins she's been trying to get me to buy for the last five years cost $30 to $75 per month.
-
I love to talk about the summer I was employed by Amway corporation. Notice I said employed, I interned at the mother ship in their International PR department. They paid really well for a LCL area internship 1.5 to 2x the minimum wage and 40% more than my previous summer jobs working as a lifeguard.
I got to sling BS about how Nope Amway was not a Ponzi scheme because there are real items you buy. I also got to escort a guest of the company to the new "direct distributors" conference, and tell the nice suckers that no I have no intention of "owning" my own business.
-
Rodan and Fields has been popping up all over my FB feed with our friends who are signing up. And yes, a majority of them are SAHMs. Is it because they're just bored? Or is it because they *need* the extra income? BTW: I've always been curious but what do people actually make from these schemes.
Anyway, it can be annoying at times when they tag or invite us to stuff. Fortunately, zero to nil house parties but some FB event parties. The latest friend who signed up 'accidentally' sent some invite to where when you click on it, it auto-joins you to the group LOL. I think it was genuinely unintentional but it is annoying. I haven't seen that many posts flooding the feed yet, but once that happens I'm going to mute it all. Hopefully that won't happen because these friends of ours in particular we have never known to be pushy like that. Money changes people though, so we'll see...
My sister-in-law was doing Stella & Dot for a while and I think stopped. Now I think she's trying to do "FB consultant" advertising for random jewelers, shoe stores, etc. My wife told me that she charged an "hourly" rate for posting ads on behalf of a jeweler because she said she would only spend several hours per week posting ads for them. I'm not quite sure what goes into posting ads besides writing a semi-lengthy post but I would think anyone in their right mind would pay by the post and not by the hour. How can you be sure you aren't paying someone $300 per hour to post 5 posts that only took 20 minutes to post total). Not to bash my SIL or anything but I think this is stemming from a desire to go SAHM - I don't think MLM and FB advertising is the route to take to replace a high six-figure salary though... The problem is that she's the bread-winner and my brother doesn't want her to stop working (and rightly so if you feel the need to take your family on international vacations every year, buy every gadget you could ever want, and buy all the designer clothes/shoes/jewelry you could ever want, in addition to mortgage and car payments)
My wife has a couple other friends who do Norwex and Usborne. We actually ordered a few Usborne books for our son, which are pretty good (one is a Chinese-learning book). We were considering buying some Norwex stuff but never ended up doing it. I guess the thought of reusable/sustainable/antimicrobial is appealing, but can't you just do all that with microfiber or whatever? And here comes the sales pitch in 3...2...1...
Ugh and finally, my wife's parents have a ton of friends who are into Amway and some other Korean/Chinese MLM scheme that sells them magic bar soap, magic toothbrushes, magic air purifiers, magic light bulbs that eat cigarette smoke, magic bidets, and magic everything and anything else you can imagine. And boy do they buy the magic... they bought a $700 bidet for themselves and then ordered one for us. They were super-mad when we told them we didn't want it, especially because they couldn't return it. So they had to find another sucker-friend to buy it off them - fortunately, they had no problems reselling it to another sucker. I don't think they got any commission of that though hahahaha!
On that note, I don't get why more husbands don't have their SAHM's research and analyze deals and areas to invest in for REI... that would be far more productive time spent. I've already told my wife (currently SAHM) to prepare herself for this, as well as to get ready for balancing the books once we start acquiring properties (she's an accountant). LOL.
-
Something about this stuff really, really depresses me. About seven years ago I was invited to a "jewelry party" by a lady from my church. Rad! We're going to make jewelry! I don't know you that well, but you seem great and I'd love to become better friends with you!
Um, no. It was a party selling some kind of jewelry and then trying to recruit all of us to also sell it. I felt so disoriented. Why would I buy jewelry at a party? I buy modest, longlasting jewelry to make myself look more professional. I buy it from department stores when they are having a sale. I have about three nice pieces and a few costume pieces. That's it for jewelry. I dislike really cheap jewelry because it looks terrible pretty quickly.
But why would I buy expensive jewelry that looks cheaply made? And...I guess you weren't that into being friends, huh?
Since then I've gotten invites to parties for all this stuff. I'm pretty religious and an active member of my church. The MLM parties always makes me so sad. It feels like exploiting something so precious--relationships--I always say no and then have to work hard to not judge the person and resent them for using friendship for financial gain. I don't boycott the parties because I am afraid of caving to pressure to buy (I know I would never cave! Just not in my nature) but because I disagree so vehemently with their very premise.
-
My coworker does the Lulularue, or whatever it's called with the leggings.
Amazingly, the staff is VERY happy that she is doing this. They are buying leggings from her like they cure cancer. I was first shocked thats she would consider this a viable thing to do, and more shocked that she is actually selling. I will say that I have no idea if this is actually turning a profit though...no idea there.
Yuck!!!!!
-
It feels like exploiting something so precious--relationships--I always say no and then have to work hard to not judge the person and resent them for using friendship for financial gain.
That's MLM marketing strategy in a nutshell. The parent company is counting on your inability to say no to a friend since the majority of their down-trace vendors don't know how to do actual marketing.
-
BTW: I've always been curious but what do people actually make from these schemes.
It is now well documented that more than 95% of the participants in these schemes lose money.
Of the 5% remaining, the vast majority makes well below minimum wage.
In some countries like Canada these companies have a legal obligation to release their numbers so you can easily find numbers. And these are never pretty, even though they try really hard to fudge them by not counting what they call "inactive members". For the MLMs that don't release their numbers, you have to assume the numbers are even worse.
My little brother is with one of them, peddling Aloe vera gloop. The only reason he believes he is making money is because he is not counting his own consumption ( which is pretty much compulsory for him to qualify for commissions) as an expense.
-
At 24, in 1994, a then-girlfriend of mine got roped into a Mary Kay party at a mall. I went along. One of those hideous women said, "She'll be making more than you in no time." I was doing really well at the age of 24 and said, "Great. I make X. At what point will she be making that?" The woman quickly found someone else to talk to. (Dropped that GF for a number of reasons related to poor judgment and finances.)
Circa 2003, wife and I get invited to a wine party -- I had no concept of at-home MLM parties at the time. Our oldest is a year old, one of our first times out, paid for a sitter for the first time. I thought one brought a bottle of wine, so I grabbed a bottle from our stash. Walked in a little late right into the sales pitch. Stared darts at the douche husband the whole time, never spoke to them again.
Circa 2006, lots of friends selling Mona Vie. Said it gave them great energy, blah, blah, blah. I told them if some $60 fruit juice made that dramatic of an effect on their well-being, they must have some pretty crappy diets that could be improved in a lot of other areas for far less money.
In recent years, I co-authored a book with a guy who didn't want to do any sort of promotion. Said he found it cheesy. A month later his wife got into Rodan & Fields and she is relentless on FB . She got the Lexus, like some of the Mona Vie people who did well early. But just as $60 snake oil fruit juice goes away, so too will overpriced skin care.
Here's my rule for family and friends: You may mention your MLM to me once and I will forgive you for your stupidity. Second time, you're dead to me.
-
It feels like exploiting something so precious--relationships--I always say no and then have to work hard to not judge the person and resent them for using friendship for financial gain.
That's MLM marketing strategy in a nutshell. The parent company is counting on your inability to say no to a friend since the majority of their down-trace vendors don't know how to do actual marketing.
A while back, I met a woman who was selling Mary Kay or something like that. She seemed really into me and I had no idea why. One day she wanted to meet me for ice cream. When I got there, she was not alone. With her sat a woman who was her sales lead. Out of the blue, the sales lead started recruiting me hard for sales position. Was I making enough money? Would I like more? She mentioned the absolutely fabulous cruise. She suggested I could be very effective among immigrant women like myself. Because I have that immigrant entrepreneurial work ethics. Nothing like being patronizing and playing a little stereotype to convince people to your position, no? I got up and left as soon as I finished my ice cream.
I learned then how one advances in these organizations: by recruiting people and getting a cut of what the recruits sell. The woman was so much into me because she thought I was going to make her money. Fake friends I need not, and neither does anybody else.
-
How does the "Lexus gift" work with R+F anyway? I saw on Reddit something about how you get the Lexus but if you don't meet sales goals any given month you're on the hook for the payment(s). LOL. I'm not sure why anyone would sign up for this without researching it more... or if they claim they did their "research" I wonder what sources they used.
-
It seems MLMs are getting even more bold about not even worrying about products anymore. My girlfriend and her friend were hit up by a waiter at TGI Fridays last week about a "vacation discount program" where you pay $600 to get discounts on vacations for a year. You get better discounts the more people you recruit. She said the waiter was noticeably less friendly after they declined.
-
Sadly, those vacation plans aren't a new thing.
I'd complain to TGIF. A waiter should not be able to do that!
-
*sigh* with FB apparently people can add you to groups without your consent and until you go in and "unfollow or leave" you will get all the group notifications. One "consultant" had the gall to PM me because my friend is hosting a party and "invited" me. Note, I did NOT accept this event request. I might not have minded if I had joined, but, just, no.
Can we start a FI MLM? for every person we convert, we get a % of the money they save, and their family saves and on and on...? ;)
Seriously, it frustrates me because a lot of the people I see doing this are good and relatively smart, but either they can't say "no" to a friend or family member who is a consultant. Or they see this as a way of building equality in a relationship and self-worth. These people would be much, much better off if they spent their time learning how to properly manage the money that does come into the household instead of spending the huge amount of time/effort/energy/money to try and bring in income through an MLM.
-
*sigh* with FB apparently people can add you to groups without your consent and until you go in and "unfollow or leave" you will get all the group notifications. One "consultant" had the gall to PM me because my friend is hosting a party and "invited" me. Note, I did NOT accept this event request. I might not have minded if I had joined, but, just, no.
Crap like this is why I have pretty much quit FB. It seems to be turning into one big 'business tool' for people to exploit.
-
I took an Uber this weekend and the driver gave me a business card for his MLM "business"! My guess is he is cobbling together a bunch of side hustles to try to make a living.
-
I took an Uber this weekend and the driver gave me a business card for his MLM "business"! My guess is he is cobbling together a bunch of side hustles to try to make a living.
LOL Uber is a great side-channel for spreading your MLM! I'll keep that in mind for if I ever get suckered into selling skincare products, because you know: "men need skincare too" (true statement but it seems less palatable when an R+F associate starts pointing it out)
-
It seems MLMs are getting even more bold about not even worrying about products anymore. My girlfriend and her friend were hit up by a waiter at TGI Fridays last week about a "vacation discount program" where you pay $600 to get discounts on vacations for a year. You get better discounts the more people you recruit. She said the waiter was noticeably less friendly after they declined.
I would write TGIF corporate and complain about that behavior: solicitation of personal business from a waiter on the job. That's awful and super unprofessional. That waiter should be fired so he can focus full-time on his MLM scam.
-
It seems MLMs are getting even more bold about not even worrying about products anymore. My girlfriend and her friend were hit up by a waiter at TGI Fridays last week about a "vacation discount program" where you pay $600 to get discounts on vacations for a year. You get better discounts the more people you recruit. She said the waiter was noticeably less friendly after they declined.
I would write TGIF corporate and complain about that behavior: solicitation of personal business from a waiter on the job. That's awful and super unprofessional. That waiter should be fired so he can focus full-time on his MLM scam.
Well I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt because I wasn't there.
My girlfriend and her friend tend to bring people way out of their normal comfort zones somehow, and get everyone to act informal around them. I could easily see them asking about what his hobbies or what else he does are during a 5 minute conversation, and then excitedly pressing him for more info when he brought up a side business. If I go to a restaurant and a waiter unprovoked tries to sell me on an MLM, you bet I'll be calling in a complaint.
-
It seems MLMs are getting even more bold about not even worrying about products anymore. My girlfriend and her friend were hit up by a waiter at TGI Fridays last week about a "vacation discount program" where you pay $600 to get discounts on vacations for a year. You get better discounts the more people you recruit. She said the waiter was noticeably less friendly after they declined.
I would write TGIF corporate and complain about that behavior: solicitation of personal business from a waiter on the job. That's awful and super unprofessional. That waiter should be fired so he can focus full-time on his MLM scam.
Well I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt because I wasn't there.
My girlfriend and her friend tend to bring people way out of their normal comfort zones somehow, and get everyone to act informal around them. I could easily see them asking about what his hobbies or what else he does are during a 5 minute conversation, and then excitedly pressing him for more info when he brought up a side business. If I go to a restaurant and a waiter unprovoked tries to sell me on an MLM, you bet I'll be calling in a complaint.
LOL I know what you mean - my parents are like that too... getting kind of nosy with other peoples' business.
-
It seems MLMs are getting even more bold about not even worrying about products anymore. My girlfriend and her friend were hit up by a waiter at TGI Fridays last week about a "vacation discount program" where you pay $600 to get discounts on vacations for a year. You get better discounts the more people you recruit. She said the waiter was noticeably less friendly after they declined.
I would write TGIF corporate and complain about that behavior: solicitation of personal business from a waiter on the job. That's awful and super unprofessional. That waiter should be fired so he can focus full-time on his MLM scam.
Well I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt because I wasn't there.
My girlfriend and her friend tend to bring people way out of their normal comfort zones somehow, and get everyone to act informal around them. I could easily see them asking about what his hobbies or what else he does are during a 5 minute conversation, and then excitedly pressing him for more info when he brought up a side business. If I go to a restaurant and a waiter unprovoked tries to sell me on an MLM, you bet I'll be calling in a complaint.
LOL I know what you mean - my parents are like that too... getting kind of nosy with other peoples' business.
Yup, I used to be like that but I've learned to caution my interest because some people can't stop once they get started or they'll ask for your help for something that is way too personal and I got tired of declining (I know we seem to be getting along but I just met you dude, I'm not going to babysit your cats and/or your child for a week).
-
I got a friend request on Facebook this morning. The name didn't look familiar, so I checked out the profile - maybe it's a married name from an old schoolmate. Nope. The profile was wide open, so I was able to scroll through her posts. A lot of posting about how psychiatry is a scam - red flag #1. Then I saw the real reason I was targeted. She's with LuLaRoe! Yeah, nope! Request deleted.
-
*sigh* with FB apparently people can add you to groups without your consent and until you go in and "unfollow or leave" you will get all the group notifications. One "consultant" had the gall to PM me because my friend is hosting a party and "invited" me. Note, I did NOT accept this event request. I might not have minded if I had joined, but, just, no.
Crap like this is why I have pretty much quit FB. It seems to be turning into one big 'business tool' for people to exploit.
I even complained to FB about it. I'm sure my opinion went nowhere.
-
It seems MLMs are getting even more bold about not even worrying about products anymore. My girlfriend and her friend were hit up by a waiter at TGI Fridays last week about a "vacation discount program" where you pay $600 to get discounts on vacations for a year. You get better discounts the more people you recruit. She said the waiter was noticeably less friendly after they declined.
I would write TGIF corporate and complain about that behavior: solicitation of personal business from a waiter on the job. That's awful and super unprofessional. That waiter should be fired so he can focus full-time on his MLM scam.
Well I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt because I wasn't there.
My girlfriend and her friend tend to bring people way out of their normal comfort zones somehow, and get everyone to act informal around them. I could easily see them asking about what his hobbies or what else he does are during a 5 minute conversation, and then excitedly pressing him for more info when he brought up a side business. If I go to a restaurant and a waiter unprovoked tries to sell me on an MLM, you bet I'll be calling in a complaint.
LOL I know what you mean - my parents are like that too... getting kind of nosy with other peoples' business.
Yup, I used to be like that but I've learned to caution my interest because some people can't stop once they get started or they'll ask for your help for something that is way too personal and I got tired of declining (I know we seem to be getting along but I just met you dude, I'm not going to babysit your cats and/or your child for a week).
The issue with my parents is that they're not only nosy but they become over-invested in people and way too soon. To the point that they meet them one day and are 'best friends' the next. For example, my dad met this kid on the bus who apparently was fresh out of college or something. They started talking about jobs and IT etc - somehow it came up that the kid was looking for a job or something. My dad immediately assumed the role of mentor, advising him on what he should and shouldn't do and told all of us that he would be meeting with this kid next week to talk more. I know he's trying to be super helpful or whatever, but sometimes it's too much - just stop over-involving yourself with everyone and everything, thinking that you know what's best for them! He probably feels like he'll project onto others what he couldn't do with his sons - instead of waiting for us to come to him or asking us if we want his advice, he just tries to fish for the information and lays it on us (he'll often ask about my job and I've never liked talking about work, and he knows it. Yet he'll continually ask about it. With my WFH job he threw out his unsolicited opinions about how I really need face time and I should try to find an office to work out of with people in it....). It's all in good intention but I've never considered his advice as particularly sage wisdom either, therefore I tend not to take most of it. It's just super annoying when he tries to impart unsolicited wisdom on us.
It could also be for the agenda of somehow getting something out of that person too, and once they've gotten what they want they drop communication and pretend like they never knew them. Super fickle and extremely annoying. My brother lives near them and interacts daily with them as well as sees their interactions with others - he's the one who tells me most of these things. I've seen it on several occasions as well. I'm just glad they never got suckered into MLM crap, because if they did I think a lot of people would really hate them.
-
Ughhh....
I guess I'm a bit into a pyramid scheme myself. After all when I put more money into my index funds they then create employees (dividends and returns) and then those employees bring in even more employees.
But seriously, my old neighbor is seriously into these. The wife and I went to one of her wine and cheese parties and bought a couple bottles of wine, why not. But since then she has gotten into some company that signs you up for utilities, cable companies, and cell phones. She told my wife how much she could save us on our phone bill and my wife replied that would mean we'd almost pay nothing for our plans (pre-paid). She then invited my wife over to hang out. My wife then got the hard pitch about finance and helping us out of debt. To this my wife replied that we don't have debt (we do but how do you justify paying off student loans that are 2.5%) and that I could teach her how to get out of debt, invest, and retire early. She is now with some company that gives you a Jeep and "pays for it". She is always posting about insurance and financial planning on FB.
-
I'd love to peer into the thought process of people like that. Well, then again maybe it would be an experience that would give me long lasting mental scars. These people's ideas just don't add up logically.
-
Ughhh....
I guess I'm a bit into a pyramid scheme myself. After all when I put more money into my index funds they then create employees (dividends and returns) and then those employees bring in even more employees.
But seriously, my old neighbor is seriously into these. The wife and I went to one of her wine and cheese parties and bought a couple bottles of wine, why not. But since then she has gotten into some company that signs you up for utilities, cable companies, and cell phones. She told my wife how much she could save us on our phone bill and my wife replied that would mean we'd almost pay nothing for our plans (pre-paid). She then invited my wife over to hang out. My wife then got the hard pitch about finance and helping us out of debt. To this my wife replied that we don't have debt (we do but how do you justify paying off student loans that are 2.5%) and that I could teach her how to get out of debt, invest, and retire early. She is now with some company that gives you a Jeep and "pays for it". She is always posting about insurance and financial planning on FB.
ooooh, can you share what the company name is?
-
Primerica?
-
I always am amused by acquaintances who do the MLM thing are constantly posting on Facebook about "how easy" it is and how close they are to becoming a director/ regional lead/ VP of the world etc. with their "easy" sales.
One person I know was always posting about Mary-Kay. She is already a Mary Kay DIRECTOR! She has a team! She makes money soooo easy! I especially loved the photos she always posted on FB of the Mary Kay conventions: posing next to the pink SUV, a Kate spade handbag, or fancy price of jewelry with the caption "I will be coming back for these gifts shortly! On track to earn them this year!"
All the while, she was also posting on the same Facebook account about how her day job as a yoga instructor got her hours cut, she can't afford to make rent, does anyone know of an apartment available with cheaper rent ASAP?? Is anyone looking for a roommate she can't afford this months rent on her own? She's looking to move to a different city but can't afford to rent a place on her own, does anyone know anyone with an empty room to rent in this new city?
But wait, what about that "easy" Mary Kay money miss big boss director lady?? Needless to say, I wasn't interested in joining her sales team.
-
Why don't these people compartmentalize their business from their personal lives online? Do they think that people can't put two and two together?
-
Why don't these people compartmentalize their business from their personal lives online? Do they think that people can't put two and two together?
If they were acting smart enough to do that they would probably also be smart enough to not take part in a MLM scheme.
-
Why don't these people compartmentalize their business from their personal lives online? Do they think that people can't put two and two together?
Because they need to leverage their personal relationships.
-
Why don't these people compartmentalize their business from their personal lives online? Do they think that people can't put two and two together?
Because they need to leverage their personal relationships.
Yep. Otherwise they won't sell any products or recruit anyone for their downline.
Direct marketing is only sustainable or even marginally profitable for people with a massive network of friends, family, and neighbors who for some reason can't or won't use online options or for whom product related get-togethers are actually a source of entertainment. In a situation like that, hosting or performing at a sales party isn't considered an imposition on the guests, who come wanting to actually buy.
-
I heard an ad on the radio this morning for a LaLuRoe event happening at a local convention center this w/e. Like lambs to the slaughter...
-
I heard an ad on the radio this morning for a LaLuRoe event happening at a local convention center this w/e. Like lambs to the slaughter...
when will the world finally have enough leggings with crazy patterns with oversized shirts?
-
I read that it takes $6k to start with Lulularoe. 6K!!! I hate that people let themselves be roped into risking that kind of money. A friend of mine does it, but I decline all her invites about it.
If anyone ever mentions MLMs to me, I just say, "I don't buy things." Then they go away.
-
Anyone here remember 31 bags? They actually had quality bags (I was given 2 as gifts, and we use them a lot), but the company was based on Proverbs 31, which I'm not churchy enough to remember what that line is. My cousin sold them, and my mom bought a bunch from her to give out as Christmas presents to all the women in the family. While nice, it was also done to "support" this cousin. Who needed support. And a real job. And was already living with my parents for several months while searching for said job. sigh.
Also, LulaRoe is apparently not all sunshine and rainbows. This website has lots of consultants sending her dirt: http://www.mommygyver.com/single-post/2017/05/11/Get-In-Good-With-the-Warehouse
-
I heard an ad on the radio this morning for a LaLuRoe event happening at a local convention center this w/e. Like lambs to the slaughter...
when will the world finally have enough leggings with crazy patterns with oversized shirts?
I know, right? I actually got my very first invite to an online LLR party a month ago or so. I can't believe it took that long. Thing is, a few of my friends have cute leggings. They are comfy, and I can see the appeal.
But how many do you need? I have four pairs of leggings for running, and a pair of comfy shorts for lounging at home. I don't need leggings with ... hearts, unicorns, etc.
-
Anyone here remember 31 bags? They actually had quality bags (I was given 2 as gifts, and we use them a lot), but the company was based on Proverbs 31, which I'm not churchy enough to remember what that line is. My cousin sold them, and my mom bought a bunch from her to give out as Christmas presents to all the women in the family. While nice, it was also done to "support" this cousin. Who needed support. And a real job. And was already living with my parents for several months while searching for said job. sigh.
Also, LulaRoe is apparently not all sunshine and rainbows. This website has lots of consultants sending her dirt: http://www.mommygyver.com/single-post/2017/05/11/Get-In-Good-With-the-Warehouse
LOL! https://www.mythirtyone.com/ - never heard of them till you mentioned it. The premise of Proverbs 31 is basically about the wife being virtuous and hard-working.
-
Sister in law of friend selling LulaRoe says she is making $20k per month doing it. Is that really even possible? She did get in very early. Is it sustainable?
I don't know if that's gross revenue or net income. But damn that's pretty good!
-
Sister in law of friend selling LulaRoe says she is making $20k per month doing it. Is that really even possible? She did get in very early. Is it sustainable?
I don't know if that's gross revenue or net income. But damn that's pretty good!
Yes, I think for some it is. MY SIL is raking it in also and she has only been doing it for a year. She is very good at marketing herself and she has a group of gals who just don't know when to say when. I swear some are changing over their whole wardrobe (leggings, shirts, dresses, skirts, etc to LLR) to the tune of thousands of dollars. I have not bought one piece of it and I never will. Soft - yes. Fun patterns - some, yes. Poor quality - yes. Overpriced - HELL YES!
Sustainable - yes and no. Due to mostly Facebook parties, I would say yes to being able to sell forever because you can reach anyone with an account. No more needing it to be local because you have to drive to their house for the party. No because the trend will die or the company will have too much growth too fast and it will implode. Either scenario would be good!
-
Sister in law of friend selling LulaRoe says she is making $20k per month doing it. Is that really even possible? She did get in very early. Is it sustainable?
I don't know if that's gross revenue or net income. But damn that's pretty good!
1) Don't trust any revenue numbers from MLM members unless they show you their tax returns
2) They are taught to "fake it until they make it" meaning it is very likely the numbers they give you are inflated (if not completely false)
3) In general the numbers being shared are gross revenue, not counting personal expenses or cost of buying the product. In the same line of thoughts, an Amazon affiliate can tell you they shipped $300'000 worth of products in a year, not telling you they only get a 3% commission out of that number. My brother pretended he was doing $800 a month in an MLM. But he had to pay for more than $1000 in product (and kept pretending it was different because he would "buy it anyway"), so, you get the idea.
4) A very tiny percentage (1% or less) of people who "got in very early" do indeed make a lot of money. They do this by exploiting their bottom line, it's up to you to understand if your friend's SIL is lying to you or to hundreds of people, whichever is easier to believe.
-
Anyone here remember 31 bags? They actually had quality bags (I was given 2 as gifts, and we use them a lot), but the company was based on Proverbs 31, which I'm not churchy enough to remember what that line is. My cousin sold them, and my mom bought a bunch from her to give out as Christmas presents to all the women in the family. While nice, it was also done to "support" this cousin. Who needed support. And a real job. And was already living with my parents for several months while searching for said job. sigh.
Also, LulaRoe is apparently not all sunshine and rainbows. This website has lots of consultants sending her dirt: http://www.mommygyver.com/single-post/2017/05/11/Get-In-Good-With-the-Warehouse
LOL! https://www.mythirtyone.com/ - never heard of them till you mentioned it. The premise of Proverbs 31 is basically about the wife being virtuous and hard-working.
Even better, it is about a wife running her own business and making and managing her own money, owning her own land and property, for the benefit of (her) and her family.
-
I participate on some mom's boards and MLM topics always result in a flame war. About 10% of the posters see them (as I do) as exploitative of the sales people, a scam, a way to lose money, annoying to all who are entrapped by their "friends" into parties selling overpriced stuff, etc. 40% don't care one way or the other. The other 50% participate in some MLM and insist that they "own their own business" and that they will get rich and that anyone who says differently is wrong, and that buying from them is "supporting a local business" etc.
The only thing I think of any quality that I've gotten from an MLM is Tupperware. But Rubbermaid is a very close second, at 1/3 of the cost, and available easily at Target (e.g. none of the sales pressure).
-
Horray! SIL has finally "seen the light" and stated that she makes very little money from the MLM she was a rep for, especially on an hourly basis. She will keep it up with the internet orders (no inventory), but will not market it any more.
This told to me by my MIL, while I was standing in her laundry room, surrounded by a vast number of MLM items she has bought from SIL from 2-3 years ago, not yet used. (scented handsoaps, expensive kitchen small appliances, etc). When MIL stopped buying from SIL, I think SIL's profits tanked. Of course, SIL used her "profits" to take the low cost "vacations" to MLM conferences previously...
Anyway, so very happy now.
-
In 1999, I sold Excel long distance to my family and friends. It was an easy sell because their rates were lower than the local phone company. Much lower.
I saved my friends and family money and I made around $3000. I think the buy-in was $150.
The hardest part was getting a small business to sign up. However, my step-dad had many small business owners in his social network, so it wasn't that hard.
It was an MLM, but I didn't try to get any of my friends to sell it.
Did anyone else do this?
-
Horray! SIL has finally "seen the light" and stated that she makes very little money from the MLM she was a rep for, especially on an hourly basis. She will keep it up with the internet orders (no inventory), but will not market it any more.
Excited for you, although apparently the MLM bug has spread to my SIL. She isn't a sales consultant (yet) but she's hooked on MLM referral programs that allow her to earn free merchandise for persuading people to make purchases at parties she hosts. Fortunately, I live out of state so I'm out of the direct line of fire, but I still get included on all the Facebook invites (so that I feel included! Haha!) and watching the drama unfold is like watching a train wreck. I can't look away!
She's held a weekly MLM "purchase party" almost every weekend for the last few months and she became very miffed that the majority of her invitees showed little or no interest in attending.
So, she moved onto the "sneak attack" MLM party where she invites people over and they find out when they arrive that the main entertainment is the MLM consultant ("Girls night" turned out to be an Avon cosmetics sales party; "Margarita night" turned out to be a Party Time Mixes cocktail mix sales party; etc, etc). This has apparently worked a surprising number of times, until somebody finally had the balls to just walk out at the beginning of the sales pitch which led to a mass exodus and zero sales.
So, the most recent variation was the "sneak & block" debacle: she had the consultant arrive last and "block in" the other cars to make it extremely awkward for people to leave before the MLM person had reached the end of the presentation. Yeah, someone drove over their front lawn to leave.
As far as I can tell, a third of her friend group is no longer friendly with her over the whole sneak party issue, another third is planning an intervention (we can still be friends but none of us are ever coming to your house again, for any reason), and the final third apparently doesn't have an issue.
I'm sad that she's so trapped in the consumerist mindset that what she already owns is never enough, that she's willing to sacrifice her relationships with other people over the opportunity to get more stuff that doesn't do anything to make her happier. I hope the friend intervention (or the loss of friends) serves as a wake-up call for her.
-
Horray! SIL has finally "seen the light" and stated that she makes very little money from the MLM she was a rep for, especially on an hourly basis. She will keep it up with the internet orders (no inventory), but will not market it any more.
Excited for you, although apparently the MLM bug has spread to my SIL. She isn't a sales consultant (yet) but she's hooked on MLM referral programs that allow her to earn free merchandise for persuading people to make purchases at parties she hosts. Fortunately, I live out of state so I'm out of the direct line of fire, but I still get included on all the Facebook invites (so that I feel included! Haha!) and watching the drama unfold is like watching a train wreck. I can't look away!
She's held a weekly MLM "purchase party" almost every weekend for the last few months and she became very miffed that the majority of her invitees showed little or no interest in attending.
So, she moved onto the "sneak attack" MLM party where she invites people over and they find out when they arrive that the main entertainment is the MLM consultant ("Girls night" turned out to be an Avon cosmetics sales party; "Margarita night" turned out to be a Party Time Mixes cocktail mix sales party; etc, etc). This has apparently worked a surprising number of times, until somebody finally had the balls to just walk out at the beginning of the sales pitch which led to a mass exodus and zero sales.
So, the most recent variation was the "sneak & block" debacle: she had the consultant arrive last and "block in" the other cars to make it extremely awkward for people to leave before the MLM person had reached the end of the presentation. Yeah, someone drove over their front lawn to leave.
As far as I can tell, a third of her friend group is no longer friendly with her over the whole sneak party issue, another third is planning an intervention (we can still be friends but none of us are ever coming to your house again, for any reason), and the final third apparently doesn't have an issue.
I'm sad that she's so trapped in the consumerist mindset that what she already owns is never enough, that she's willing to sacrifice her relationships with other people over the opportunity to get more stuff that doesn't do anything to make her happier. I hope the friend intervention (or the loss of friends) serves as a wake-up call for her.
Whoa, that sounds *drastic*! Running over the lawn to escape!!! Like something out of a movie hahahaha. That is pretty awesome though. It's crazy how passive-aggressive someone can get over doing this sneak-parties and going as far as attempting to block them from leaving! No wonder she pissed all her "friends" off - I'd be furious too if my wife had a "friend" like that. Maybe she should get into used car sales :D
-
Excited for you, although apparently the MLM bug has spread to my SIL. She isn't a sales consultant (yet) but she's hooked on MLM referral programs that allow her to earn free merchandise for persuading people to make purchases at parties she hosts. ...
She's held a weekly MLM "purchase party" almost every weekend for the last few months and she became very miffed that the majority of her invitees showed little or no interest in attending.
So, she moved onto the "sneak attack" MLM party where she invites people over and they find out when they arrive that the main entertainment is the MLM consultant ("Girls night" turned out to be an Avon cosmetics sales party; "Margarita night" turned out to be a Party Time Mixes cocktail mix sales party; etc, etc). This has apparently worked a surprising number of times, until somebody finally had the balls to just walk out at the beginning of the sales pitch which led to a mass exodus and zero sales.
This made me laugh!
-
Excited for you, although apparently the MLM bug has spread to my SIL. She isn't a sales consultant (yet) but she's hooked on MLM referral programs that allow her to earn free merchandise for persuading people to make purchases at parties she hosts. ...
She's held a weekly MLM "purchase party" almost every weekend for the last few months and she became very miffed that the majority of her invitees showed little or no interest in attending.
So, she moved onto the "sneak attack" MLM party where she invites people over and they find out when they arrive that the main entertainment is the MLM consultant ("Girls night" turned out to be an Avon cosmetics sales party; "Margarita night" turned out to be a Party Time Mixes cocktail mix sales party; etc, etc). This has apparently worked a surprising number of times, until somebody finally had the balls to just walk out at the beginning of the sales pitch which led to a mass exodus and zero sales.
This made me laugh!
Me too. But I also wonder what kind of a person basically uses their friends like this. I can't imagine being invited somewhere without being told it was a MLM event. Kind of like throwing your friends/family under the bus.
-
It's funny how some have aligned with the FIRE goals that I am excited about.
I have a few friends (Juice+) that advertise constantly about being retired early (and their insanely healthy lifestyles due to fruit skin pills).
Is this what happens when you get enough down-lines, they stop allowing you to sell or increase them? I can't imagine it's sustainable long term, so why wouldn't they maximize as much as they can while it's big. Not to mention there appears to be mandatory conferences and "vacations" to business towns and hotel meeting rooms every week, so I question the authenticity of the ER dream.
-
It's funny how some have aligned with the FIRE goals that I am excited about.
I have a few friends (Juice+) that advertise constantly about being retired early (and their insanely healthy lifestyles due to fruit skin pills).
Is this what happens when you get enough down-lines, they stop allowing you to sell or increase them? I can't imagine it's sustainable long term, so why wouldn't they maximize as much as they can while it's big. Not to mention there appears to be mandatory conferences and "vacations" to business towns and hotel meeting rooms every week, so I question the authenticity of the ER dream.
I think the people who make money in direct marketing are either people with fantastic networks and few other delivery options who are able to avoid MLM schtick, or else MLM'ers who get in early on the ground floor so that everyone else is "downline". Aside from that it appears to me that the vast majority of money is in the "tools" sales, which is generally done through a separate company. That's who rakes in the green from all the mandatory conferences, tape of the week, and book of the month sales. A person could hit ER pretty well if they skipped any MLM involvement themselves and just focused on tools and motivational speeches.
-
I confess my brother is in an MLM it's called ACN. He adores it and claims to make money off it. My mother and I have agreed to support him but never buy from it or sell anything from it it's a fair compromise I think. My stepfather dabbled in it too. I used to be a half a**sed Avon rep when the one in my building left but after that business fell off and I became afraid of being busted for solicitation so I stopped since it's a federal building and people can be vindictive or turn you in off hand.
-
The sneak attack MLM party is the absolute worst!
Funny story: when I was engaged my husband was in the air force in Ohio, and I still lived in Texas for school. I visited him for 4 weeks in the summer. The second day I was there the women in his group of friends were all having a get together, and I was invited too. I had never met any of them. It was a sex toys sales party. I did not go. That was not how I wanted to meet the group. Even after I was good friends with them all, I still skipped the sex toys party. Call me a prude, or call me cheap. Either is true.
-
The sneak attack MLM party is the absolute worst!
Funny story: when I was engaged my husband was in the air force in Ohio, and I still lived in Texas for school. I visited him for 4 weeks in the summer. The second day I was there the women in his group of friends were all having a get together, and I was invited too. I had never met any of them. It was a sex toys sales party. I did not go. That was not how I wanted to meet the group. Even after I was good friends with them all, I still skipped the sex toys party. Call me a prude, or call me cheap. Either is true.
Yuck. That's not how I'd want to meet other folks in a social circle either.
Having a mental image of a new friend using some of that stuff is just not my idea of social bonding. "Oh, that's Jeff, he's the one with the Hello Kitty butt plug." Meanwhile they'd all be thinking something similar about me: "I wonder what Grim is going to do with all of that scythe lube; it does seem like an excessive amount."
In fact, now that I think of it, I'd pay a significant (for me) amount of money to avoid that situation.
-
I think the people who make money in direct marketing are either people with fantastic networks and few other delivery options who are able to avoid MLM schtick, or else MLM'ers who get in early on the ground floor so that everyone else is "downline". Aside from that it appears to me that the vast majority of money is in the "tools" sales, which is generally done through a separate company. That's who rakes in the green from all the mandatory conferences, tape of the week, and book of the month sales. A person could hit ER pretty well if they skipped any MLM involvement themselves and just focused on tools and motivational speeches.
I've always wondered how icky I would feel going this route. I have some family that swears by Primerica and the freedom it's given them (though I haven't noticed any overwhelming wealth and they all have multiple side-jobs going). I just can't imagine doing what they've done and charging to put people into overpriced insurance and mutual fund options. They've had multiple friends over the years simply "disappear" after huge falling outs and I think I know why..
That said, what kicked me into looking in to better investment options and eventually to MMM was when I inquired about money I'd invested from my first job at 13 and noticed MER's around 4%. Nothing like legally stealing money from a child (luckily it didn't sour me to investing altogether).
-
Sister in law of friend selling LulaRoe says she is making $20k per month doing it. Is that really even possible? She did get in very early. Is it sustainable?
I don't know if that's gross revenue or net income. But damn that's pretty good!
1) Don't trust any revenue numbers from MLM members unless they show you their tax returns
2) They are taught to "fake it until they make it" meaning it is very likely the numbers they give you are inflated (if not completely false)
3) In general the numbers being shared are gross revenue, not counting personal expenses or cost of buying the product. In the same line of thoughts, an Amazon affiliate can tell you they shipped $300'000 worth of products in a year, not telling you they only get a 3% commission out of that number. My brother pretended he was doing $800 a month in an MLM. But he had to pay for more than $1000 in product (and kept pretending it was different because he would "buy it anyway"), so, you get the idea.
4) A very tiny percentage (1% or less) of people who "got in very early" do indeed make a lot of money. They do this by exploiting their bottom line, it's up to you to understand if your friend's SIL is lying to you or to hundreds of people, whichever is easier to believe.
It's totally possible to make $20K/month selling LulaRoe right now - it's crazy popular & they just got a 2 yr contract with Disney to sell Disney printed stuff - which is kind of like printing money. I don't really understand why people need so many pairs of leggings & their clothes are crazy expensive IMO. My sister has been a rep for ~8 months & has sold >$12K all but one month - when she was on vacation. Let's just say I've seen her bank account - if your sister-in-law's friend got in early & is actually good at selling + is probably a trainer which means she gets a cut of all the people under her, that number is totally doable, but also probably not long-term sustainable.
Not gonna lie though - I'm super jealous of my sister because at their last conference, the 2500 people who were there got to go to Disneyland for 4 hours after hours.
-
Wow, this is bonkers. MLMs don't seem to have infected my social circle yet. (Or maybe I just haven't noticed because I no longer use Facebook.)
Reading this thread, the worst seems to be that these rip-off companies are parasitically infiltrating peoples' social groups. The story about the lady throwing stealth MLM parties is just horrifying! It's so sad to me that people would choose the false dream of MLMs and their shoddy products over maintaining civil relationships with family, friends, and neighbors.
If I met anyone who seemed into this, I might direct them to the "side hustle" thread here on the MMM forum instead.
P.S. A while back "This American Life" did a show on an MLM-type scheme called WakeUpNow. It was pretty fascinating: https://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/543/wake-up-now
-
It's totally possible to make $20K/month selling LulaRoe right now
the median annual bonus payments made to Eligible U.S. Independent Retailers at all ranks in 2016 was $525.94.
[...]
In 2016, 72.63% of U.S. Independent Retailers were Ineligible and therefore did not receive any bonus payments from LuLaRoe.
Source: official Lularoe income disclosure for 2016 (http://www.lularoe.com/income-disclosure-statement/)
Of course, if you can sell between 1000 and 2000 leggings a month, then yes... But I wouldn't qualify this as "totally possible"
-
The sneak attack MLM party is the absolute worst!
Funny story: when I was engaged my husband was in the air force in Ohio, and I still lived in Texas for school. I visited him for 4 weeks in the summer. The second day I was there the women in his group of friends were all having a get together, and I was invited too. I had never met any of them. It was a sex toys sales party. I did not go. That was not how I wanted to meet the group. Even after I was good friends with them all, I still skipped the sex toys party. Call me a prude, or call me cheap. Either is true.
I had the sneak attack sex toy party happen to me. I was very unimpressed. I almost unfriended this "friend" afterwards on FB but chose to just unfollow instead. She's just invited me to her "birthday" party in a few weeks. I think I'll be very busy that night enjoying a quiet dinner and bottle of wine with my family at home. I just can't trust that it is actually a birthday party.
-
I met a new neighbor, and right after exchanging pleasantries she immediately started in on the MLM nonsense. She has a Mary Kay business in case I'm interested in make up. Oh you don't wear makeup? That's okay she can do a skincare demo on me. It will only take 20 minutes, it will make my face feel great! Blah blah blah. Would NOT except "no" and just kept going on and on. who cares about building relationships with your neighbors when you could just use them to sell crap to?
-
Horray! SIL has finally "seen the light" and stated that she makes very little money from the MLM she was a rep for, especially on an hourly basis. She will keep it up with the internet orders (no inventory), but will not market it any more.
Excited for you, although apparently the MLM bug has spread to my SIL. She isn't a sales consultant (yet) but she's hooked on MLM referral programs that allow her to earn free merchandise for persuading people to make purchases at parties she hosts. Fortunately, I live out of state so I'm out of the direct line of fire, but I still get included on all the Facebook invites (so that I feel included! Haha!) and watching the drama unfold is like watching a train wreck. I can't look away!
She's held a weekly MLM "purchase party" almost every weekend for the last few months and she became very miffed that the majority of her invitees showed little or no interest in attending.
So, she moved onto the "sneak attack" MLM party where she invites people over and they find out when they arrive that the main entertainment is the MLM consultant ("Girls night" turned out to be an Avon cosmetics sales party; "Margarita night" turned out to be a Party Time Mixes cocktail mix sales party; etc, etc). This has apparently worked a surprising number of times, until somebody finally had the balls to just walk out at the beginning of the sales pitch which led to a mass exodus and zero sales.
So, the most recent variation was the "sneak & block" debacle: she had the consultant arrive last and "block in" the other cars to make it extremely awkward for people to leave before the MLM person had reached the end of the presentation. Yeah, someone drove over their front lawn to leave.
As far as I can tell, a third of her friend group is no longer friendly with her over the whole sneak party issue, another third is planning an intervention (we can still be friends but none of us are ever coming to your house again, for any reason), and the final third apparently doesn't have an issue.
I'm sad that she's so trapped in the consumerist mindset that what she already owns is never enough, that she's willing to sacrifice her relationships with other people over the opportunity to get more stuff that doesn't do anything to make her happier. I hope the friend intervention (or the loss of friends) serves as a wake-up call for her.
WOW regarding the sneak attack. This means it occurred to her that the people invited would not want to stay for a sales presentation but cared so little about her "guests" feelings to think of a way to force them to stay anyway.
On a separate note, most people i know who are into the MLM thing are really annoying about it for a year or so and then I think they realize they will not actually get rich or have a real business, and then quietly go into the night at let the "business" die. How long was this sneak attack person into the MLM thing for? Just curious
-
It's totally possible to make $20K/month selling LulaRoe right now
the median annual bonus payments made to Eligible U.S. Independent Retailers at all ranks in 2016 was $525.94.
[...]
In 2016, 72.63% of U.S. Independent Retailers were Ineligible and therefore did not receive any bonus payments from LuLaRoe.
Source: official Lularoe income disclosure for 2016 (http://www.lularoe.com/income-disclosure-statement/)
Of course, if you can sell between 1000 and 2000 leggings a month, then yes... But I wouldn't qualify this as "totally possible"
I'm not exactly sure what this is supposed to show - I said it was possible. I didn't say it was probable. Someone is getting those high bonus checks. And Lularoe sells a bunch of stuff that isn't leggings. I also stated she's probably a minimum of trainer if she really did get in early - where the average bonus is $52K/yr so basically $4.5K/mo that comes not from selling. A good sale is ~40 pieces at an average price of $35.
I have no real interest in MLM, but I am a good sister & I listen to her talk about her sales goals, new products & such. The reason MLM is so popular among a certain sect is because someone is making that kind of money without having to go to work at set hours. I also, don't really get why some people are so against these type of things having potential for a certain personality type/way of life. Physical businesses pay out bonuses to different management levels. It's possible at a very low level in my industry to get a 5 figure bonus every year. The bonus checks trainers get are comparable to management bonuses. In my mind, there is no real difference, except I have to go work in my office for 160hrs/month & MLM people work whatever hours they set for themselves.
It's cool that you think this isn't possible for anyone & that you think people lie about how much they make(because let's be real a lot of people do), but everyone isn't. Some people do make significant amounts of money at MLM.
-
It's cool that you think this isn't possible for anyone & that you think people lie about how much they make(because let's be real a lot of people do), but everyone isn't. Some people do make significant amounts of money at MLM.
I would not argue the fact that a few people are making large sums of money (or livable sums of money).
My issue is that it is this faint glimmer of hope that is pulling people towards MLM's and costing them money, friendships, and family.
For me it kind of works the same way this forum advocates simple index matching investments. There are a tiny percentage of funds / people that can beat the market, but the more you hear about them the more you think it's normal or even reasonable to expect. The selection bias in hearing about one person that has "made it" with an MLM ignores the overwhelming facts that almost everyone doesn't, and it ends up costing them and their networks.
-
It's cool that you think this isn't possible for anyone & that you think people lie about how much they make(because let's be real a lot of people do), but everyone isn't. Some people do make significant amounts of money at MLM.
My problem is that comments like yours make it sound like it's "reasonably" achievable, when it's been proven over and over that 95% to 99% of the participants in these schemes end up losing money. Those who end up making money, whether they realize it or not, do it unethically by exploiting the people in their downline.
So, to answer your question about why some people are so against this kind of thing is because people like me feel that these businesses are unethical, and I hate schemes where the weak are preyed on. It's nothing against you or your sister, it's about the message you convey to people who could fall prey to these schemes, on a website dedicated to financial independence. This sends the wrong signal IMO. You have clear survivor bias here, in that you happen to know one of the 1% of people who are successful in this business. I invite you to read this article which states better than me what I'm trying to say: https://timelessvie.wordpress.com/2016/12/08/but-why-arent-you-balanced-what-about-all-the-positive-stories-about-incredibly-rich-insert-name-here-mlmers-in-this-post-we-explain-why-balance-is-bullshit-when-it-comes-to-network-ma/
-
The more I check back with this thread and some of the links that have been posted, the more I find MLMs to be unequivocally bad for society, potential for high earning notwithstanding.
No matter how successful one is at it, attempting to turn human relationships into a cash cow for no motive other than profit is deplorable. It is not merely tasteless. It is unethical. There is a layer of fraud, manipulation, and exploitation involved that makes the entire industry a scourge, as far as I can tell.
I used to find MLMs irritating but benign. Don't like MLMs? Don't buy the products or attempt to sell them. However, after some research, I now think they are harmful and ought to be regulated out of existence. It's one thing to be played for a sucker. It's another thing to sell out your family and friends in the process.
-
It's cool that you think this isn't possible for anyone & that you think people lie about how much they make(because let's be real a lot of people do), but everyone isn't. Some people do make significant amounts of money at MLM.
My problem is that comments like yours make it sound like it's "reasonably" achievable, when it's been proven over and over that 95% to 99% of the participants in these schemes end up losing money. Those who end up making money, whether they realize it or not, do it unethically by exploiting the people in their downline.
So, to answer your question about why some people are so against this kind of thing is because people like me feel that these businesses are unethical, and I hate schemes where the weak are preyed on. It's nothing against you or your sister, it's about the message you convey to people who could fall prey to these schemes, on a website dedicated to financial independence. This sends the wrong signal IMO. You have clear survivor bias here, in that you happen to know one of the 1% of people who are successful in this business. I invite you to read this article which states better than me what I'm trying to say: https://timelessvie.wordpress.com/2016/12/08/but-why-arent-you-balanced-what-about-all-the-positive-stories-about-incredibly-rich-insert-name-here-mlmers-in-this-post-we-explain-why-balance-is-bullshit-when-it-comes-to-network-ma/
I'm actually personally acquainted with more than 1 person who is successful at an MLM. I used my sister as an example solely because someone else asked if that number was really possible with LuLaRoe & it is. I know because I've seen the $20K deposit before.
I would argue that 95% of people who try out MLM are unsuccessful because they have no idea what they are doing just like 95% of people couldn't start up their own business and run it successfully. I have an MBA - when she decided to do this, we set down, researched it,discussed it & wrote a business plan. She's successful at it because she didn't think money was going to magically appear & because she has exactly the personality to sell unique clothing items live on Facebook or in person. If it had been a different product or marketing scheme, I would have told her she was being crazy because it wouldn't have suited her.
I would never argue that MLM's aren't bad for most people, but I don't think they are inherently evil either. I think like much of life people are so uneducated that they are unable to determine whether something is good for them or not & continuously make bad decisions about what they are doing. If you're of the mindset that MLM's are bad because they prey on weak people - then there are 1M other things that we should remove from society because they prey on weak people.
This entire site exists because most people can't figure out the difference between a need and a want which causes them to inevitably spend more than they need to because our entire society preys on that weakness.
Also, from my sister - who says this is why some MLMs, like LLR are different from other MLMs that are much closer to pyramid schemes:
"Here's an interesting statistic for your group. 70% of retailers with LLR do not grow teams. Only 5% of the people in this company hold "leadership" titles and we're expected to work hard for our bonus money. I think, that 70% number is important, because you don't have to participate in team growing to make an excellent living selling LLR. Marty and I were just talking about how much more $$ I could make if I didn't have to give my team like 40% of my time.
We're switching to a sales based compensation plan on July 1st and my check will take a hit, unless I TEACH my girls how to sell and be successful. We are implementing much stricter requirements for leadership. Meaning you have to do a minimum of 10 Pop-ups and $10,000 in sales before you can "sponsor" someone else. This will entirely eliminate people just making money off of other people's hard work"
-
I know because I've seen the $20K deposit before.
Well, I feel this is different from what you stated before. a 20K deposit represents 20K in revenue, not in profit.
In order to generate a 20K revenue, there has been inventory that needed to be purchased, an expensive subscription to the MLM in the first place (granted, just a one time expense), plus additional expenses such as the time spent promoting the business, possibly gas to go to events, etc.... I think I mentioned that above, but my little brother was also "making" $800 a month in an MLM. Except his expenses were $1000+ ...
For the sake of the discussion you should clarify which it is. Revenue or profit? What matters of course is the actual profit.
I would argue that 95% of people who try out MLM are unsuccessful because they have no idea what they are doing just like 95% of people couldn't start up their own business and run it successfully.
This is incorrect, and is exactly the kind of BS that MLMs love people to believe. There are studies that show that the failure rate in an MLM is at least 95% over the course of 10 years (this is a very conservative estimate). By comparison, the failure rate of small businesses is 64% over 10 years. If the failure rate was the same, I would agree with you, but the numbers prove that MLMs are statistically a worse proposition than starting one's own business. Source (https://www.ftc.gov/sites/default/files/documents/public_comments/trade-regulation-rule-disclosure-requirements-and-prohibitions-concerning-business-opportunities-ftc.r511993-00008%C2%A0/00008-57281.pdf)
If you're of the mindset that MLM's are bad because they prey on weak people - then there are 1M other things that we should remove from society because they prey on weak people.
Probably, but what's your point? "Let's not discuss why this one thing is bad because there are so many other bad things anyway"?
This entire site exists because most people can't figure out the difference between a need and a want which causes them to inevitably spend more than they need to because our entire society preys on that weakness.
Exactly. This site exists to help people getting out of that financially destructive behavior. Conversely, MLMs encourage financially destructive behavior on more than half of their participants.
-
Also, from my sister - who says this is why some MLMs, like LLR are different from other MLMs that are much closer to pyramid schemes:
"Here's an interesting statistic for your group. 70% of retailers with LLR do not grow teams. Only 5% of the people in this company hold "leadership" titles and we're expected to work hard for our bonus money. I think, that 70% number is important, because you don't have to participate in team growing to make an excellent living selling LLR.
I'm very sorry but this looks much more damning than what you've been posting before. The fact that 70% of the people that are in the MLM aren't even in leadership positions does nothing to calm the argument that only a small percentage succeed. It actually sounds a lot more like common MLM diversion tactics. Not to mention "make an excellent living selling LLR," what is this defined by? Because any numbers I can find for the representative's of LLR means the vast majority is below average wages.
Do more than 30% of the people that work for LLR make more than the median wage in America / Canada? This appears to be a resounding no, so anyone NOT in a leadership position is at a major disadvantage from becoming someone's downline.
http://www.businessinsider.com/how-much-money-lularoe-consultants-make-2017-3 (http://www.businessinsider.com/how-much-money-lularoe-consultants-make-2017-3)
"More than 80% of LuLaRoe's representatives generated less than $5,000 in sales last month"
-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=07aoF6OMF0U
https://youtu.be/a231RLKyfPw
-
Overall, I'm not a fan of the MLM concept. I do distinguish it from direct marketing, which can be successful for some IF they have a "sales" personality, a sizable personal network, and a lot of personal initiative. (A Realtor, for example, engages in a form of direct marketing.) Catalogue based marketing worked prior to the Internet going mainstream; I had a friend in high school who was a successful Regal dealer and who used her profits to pay her first year's worth of university tuition. I'm not sure anyone could stay in business now that it's so much cheaper and simpler to buy directly from manufacturers or wholesalers.
That being said, I believe direct marketing "opportunities" (complete with the cost of the start-up kit!) are being marketed unreasonably to people who lack the minimum qualifications to make a go of it. Cutco, for example, actively recruits students and other people who do NOT have big personal networks or the wherewithal to start and build a business. The people they recruit end up burning out their personal networks by asking friends and family to fork over big money for products that don't necessarily provide high value for the dollar. (YMMV with Cutco-- I've met people who love the knives and people who hate them). I like TupperWare and own a fair bit, which effortlessly outlasts the plastic crap I buy at the grocery store. So I foresee more of it in my future. Anything that can stand up to two decades of daily use really does provide value for the dollar. But I'm told that, in some markets, TupperWare salespeople had to buy their own kits and use them for demonstration purposes. That doesn't pass my smell test.
I don't have as big of a problem with, say, Kirby vacuum sales simply because the sales reps don't have to buy their kit and effectively "pay" for a job.
The problem with MLM, from my perspective, is the emphasis on the downline. Recruiting other people to sell the product in order to get a cut of what they and their recruits sell pretty much guarantees the local market will eventually saturate. That's not what legitimate franchise models do in other kinds of business.
-
I have a big problem with the Kirby model. I've never had to phone the police to get an MLM distributor out of my house, but I'm not the only person I know who has had to do that to get a Kirby person to leave. They also set up appointments under false pretenses (carpet shampooing).
-
(YMMV with Cutco-- I've met people who love the knives and people who hate them).
FWIW, the only people I've met who like Cutco are people who don't cook very often. It's mostly rich people I know who have them, and they talk them up bigtime. There's nothing magical about them, they're relatively low grade steel but can be sharpened if you don't get the serrated models. There's no "secret sauce" that makes them better than any other knives out there.
Any knife will be great if you sharpen it regularly, but I'd guess less than 5% of people I meet have ever sharpened their cooking knives. Most just use insanely dull knives and think it's normal. It's the frog in boiling water situation. The knife starts out sharp, then gradually gets duller and before you know it you're using all of your weight to chop an onion. It happens so gradually most people don't notice and if you ask them they'll tell you their knife is sharp. I guess if their criteria for sharp is it will cut them if they mess up, they're right.
Cutco is great about marketing how their knives stay sharp forever, and people who own them repeat that nonsense to anyone they tell about them. I'm 99% certain if you took those people who "love" their 10 year old Cutco knives and got them a Victorinox Chef's knife off of amazon and had them use both, they'd be shocked at how dull their Cutco actually is. Or they wouldn't, because they've only used the Cutco once a year so it's still sharp.
-
Cutco is great about marketing how their knives stay sharp forever, and people who own them repeat that nonsense to anyone they tell about them. I'm 99% certain if you took those people who "love" their 10 year old Cutco knives and got them a Victorinox Chef's knife off of amazon and had them use both, they'd be shocked at how dull their Cutco actually is. Or they wouldn't, because they've only used the Cutco once a year so it's still sharp.
I absolutely love my Victorinox knives, and they are stupid inexpensive. My wife got mad when I bought them because we hang our knives on a magnet, so they're very visible. She thought the NSF non-slip handles were "ugly" and wanted full tang with the pretty rivets and slippery annoying wood handles. Then she used them. Then she tried sharpening the crap low-end Henckel I had and cutting something with wet hands. Then went back to the Victorinox. Then realized I bought a superior set of knives for half the cost of pretty but useless garbage.
-
I know because I've seen the $20K deposit before.
Well, I feel this is different from what you stated before. a 20K deposit represents 20K in revenue, not in profit.
In order to generate a 20K revenue, there has been inventory that needed to be purchased, an expensive subscription to the MLM in the first place (granted, just a one time expense), plus additional expenses such as the time spent promoting the business, possibly gas to go to events, etc.... I think I mentioned that above, but my little brother was also "making" $800 a month in an MLM. Except his expenses were $1000+ ...
For the sake of the discussion you should clarify which it is. Revenue or profit? What matters of course is the actual profit.
I would argue that 95% of people who try out MLM are unsuccessful because they have no idea what they are doing just like 95% of people couldn't start up their own business and run it successfully.
This is incorrect, and is exactly the kind of BS that MLMs love people to believe. There are studies that show that the failure rate in an MLM is at least 95% over the course of 10 years (this is a very conservative estimate). By comparison, the failure rate of small businesses is 64% over 10 years. If the failure rate was the same, I would agree with you, but the numbers prove that MLMs are statistically a worse proposition than starting one's own business. Source (https://www.ftc.gov/sites/default/files/documents/public_comments/trade-regulation-rule-disclosure-requirements-and-prohibitions-concerning-business-opportunities-ftc.r511993-00008%C2%A0/00008-57281.pdf)
If you're of the mindset that MLM's are bad because they prey on weak people - then there are 1M other things that we should remove from society because they prey on weak people.
Probably, but what's your point? "Let's not discuss why this one thing is bad because there are so many other bad things anyway"?
This entire site exists because most people can't figure out the difference between a need and a want which causes them to inevitably spend more than they need to because our entire society preys on that weakness.
Exactly. This site exists to help people getting out of that financially destructive behavior. Conversely, MLMs encourage financially destructive behavior on more than half of their participants.
I'm done with this conversation - so thanks for that. I responded to answer 1 person's question about whether it was possible for 1 random person that they knew to make that much money in a month in a company I'm familiar with (& FYI, they didn't specify whether the "making" was profit or revenue) because you told them it wasn't, which is false. I don't need to be convinced MLM's are bad in most cases.... I've repeatedly said that I don't believe MLM's are a fantastic idea for most people.
I will clarify the one point you asked for clarification on with the answer that I don't know - LLR profit is 50% on what is sold, but the people I am acquainted with who make $20K checks earn some part of that money from training bonuses(I don't know or care how that works), but as previously pointed out by another poster - the average trainer makes $4500 in bonus/mo. so one could guess that a $20K check is ~$12K profit less whatever additional they invest back into their business every month & any additional costs they're accruing such as shipping. Additionally, a check isn't a total monthly payment - the end of month check is the bonus + whatever you sold most recently, but payments are made ever few days based on your sales activity so the deposits I've seen aren't a total monthly amount - beyond that I wouldn't know. I remember my sister explaining how often her sales money came in so she could purchase additional stock back in the beginning, but it's not something I recall in great detail. I generally don't ask people for their personal financial information - some people get excited & over-share (or I guess they live in dreamland where a large check will bring me over to their side, but I don't even wear LLR so I'm certainly not interested in selling it).
-
I have a big problem with the Kirby model. I've never had to phone the police to get an MLM distributor out of my house, but I'm not the only person I know who has had to do that to get a Kirby person to leave. They also set up appointments under false pretenses (carpet shampooing).
Remember this fun discussion?
https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/antimustachian-wall-of-shame-and-comedy/door-to-door-vacuum-sale-it-was-strangely-entertaining/ (https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/antimustachian-wall-of-shame-and-comedy/door-to-door-vacuum-sale-it-was-strangely-entertaining/)
-
I just got my first invite to a LLR popup in my neighborhood. It had pictures, which was noce since I'd never seen the product, and.... wow, that is some LOUD clothing. :o
The person inviting wasn't pushy at all, so that was nice.
-
On a separate note, most people i know who are into the MLM thing are really annoying about it for a year or so and then I think they realize they will not actually get rich or have a real business, and then quietly go into the night at let the "business" die. How long was this sneak attack person into the MLM thing for? Just curious
Wow, you're right on the money. It took about a year and a half to reach the ultimate awkward sneak and block incident.
Weirdly enough, it started out kind of innocently. She and my brother got married last summer and the dress she wanted was at David's Bridal -- they had a program with x number of bridesmaids buying a dress for at least x dollars resulted in x% off her wedding dress. So, she figured out what she could afford to spend on her dress and made sure she had enough bridesmaids to hit the percentage off she needed to cover the rest. Not super excited about getting asked to pay for an overpriced prom-esque dress in an ugly color just so she could get a discount on her stuff, but on the other hand, hey, she hit her financial objective.
Anyway, then her mom had started a cosmetics sales job, so she was getting free stuff from her mom for referring her friends for make-overs. And then another friend was selling something else and convinced her to hold an in-house party in exchange for free stuff. And then more friends, and that was how the first round of straight up sales parties were happening. I think the first sneak attack parties were just sales consultants that advertised their marketing pitch that way: invite your friends over for a dinner party and serve all Tastefully Simple products or something. And when those parties were better attended, she started sponsoring all of her social gatherings that way.
And then, well, I got nothing to explain how it escalated into the whole sneak and block incident. I wouldn't have expected that kind of thing from her in a million years; nicest girl, helps everybody, etc etc. Maybe she got used to getting things for free and got weird when the sources started to dry up? Maybe the attention and freebies from the sales consultants made her feel special? No idea...
-
MLM: Most Lose Money.
-
I think I mentioned the HS acquaintance who sells Amway on here already. She's been selling it now for at least 10 years, we are now both 35. She also works a "regular" job (not sure if it is FT or PT but she has definitely been working in an office setting of some sort continuously). AND she runs some kind of side business related to a hobby of hers (which actually seems pretty cool/legit, though perhaps not a huge money maker). So she has three "jobs", one in an office and two "businesses". She's routinely hashtagging her posts with things like #entrepreneur and has been for yeaaaaaars. At some point she messaged me with some vague "business opportunity" that I assume was an attempt to get me into her Amway downline.
Well, today she posts that her Dave Ramsey debt snowball has resulted in her paying off her car loan in full. Okay, great! But seriously, how is someone who is such a successsful "entrepreneur" still wandering around with a car loan??? Well, lots of people think car loans are NBD, maybe she had some crazy low interest that meant having a loan actually made financial sense, but she decided to go ahead and pay it off just to have one less thing to deal with or just to give herself the mental satisfaction of having less debt. Right?
Then I read the comments and someone asks what the snowball will be targeting next and she responds that she has two CREDIT CARDS that will be getting paid off later this month. So, on the one hand, awesome, you are paying off a credit card debt in the near future. But on the other hand...how successful has all that 10+ years of entrepreneuring really been if you racked up 2 credit card debts in the first place? She doesn't give specifics on numbers and I am guessing they are not huge if she's going to kill them within the next couple of weeks, but it still just makes me scratch my head. From what she posts on FB her lifestyle is not uber-frugal but it's also not crazy lavish. Just not seeing anything to convince me that Amway is a path to financial freedom.
-
Just watched an AWESOME documentary on Netflix about Herbalife called Betting on Zero.
It helped me understand people's motives for getting sucked into MLMs. It also helped me understand the brainwashed nature of people in MLMs--sunk cost fallacy is part of it, and also just the difficulty in feeling like a fool with a garage full of unsold product. I think there's a lot of shame involved.
This also helps me understand why people post so maniacally on fb about their MLM doings. These scams play into so many American dream narratives and I think the need for affirmation must be overwhelming.
-
I've had many, many MLM encounters over the years. I am from the Land of Amway, so I became familiar with the phrase "pyramid scheme" when I was just a youngin'. Went through the house party phase when my newly married friends were holding Pampered Chef and candle parties so they could furnish their homes at a discount. One of my cousins sold Mary Kay for a hot minute. Now the damn things have moved onto Facebook and you can't get away!
I have a long time friend and a close family member into the BeachBody thing. Friend sent me a looong PM about how she was having a "sale" on her "product," which of course if overpriced protein powder. I responded with a long, friendly message asking about her kids. She, of course, did not reply.
I'm also casual acquaintances with a couple that are super high up in Isagenix. They are actually an interesting case study of how you CAN be successful with these types of products if you do everything just right. They are a super fit couple who have been in fitness competitions for a long time. They already had a huge network of health & fitness type people. They have thousands of Facebook "friends" and all those friends are healthy and beautiful. Basically, they are a walking advertisement for fitness products and were just looking for the right thing to sell.
I'm disgusted by the price of the products and the pseudo-science they use in their sales pitches, but they genuinely seem to be making bank off that stuff.
-
Not all "social" marketing schemes are piramid schemes. While I agree that any "party" where guest feel pressured to buy is worthy of the wall of shame, I think the piramid scheme brush being used a little too broadly. To identify piramid schemes, you really have to look at the compensation plan (if commissions from direct sales are small, but compensation for building a downline is high, you're looking at a piramid scheme). Usually what the representative talks about makes it easy to guess what the compensation plan says, without having to read all that fine print. I absolutely hate it when all the representatives really want to talk about is the business (Monavie, Melaleuca, LIFE Leadership), sometimes I enjoy interacting with the representatives when the presentation is actually about the product (AVON, Pampered Chef, Stampin' Up, Thrive, Doterra). Still, they're all consumer sucka priced and I absolutely hate the way people feel like they are expected to buy something (if the host is really your friend they shouldn't care).
-
My girlfriend has a high paying corporate job. A friend from college randomly messaged her on FB really wanting to schedule a time to "catch up". So she moved her schedule around to take their phone call, and sure enough it was a MLM pitch. My gf politely declined the offer (citing she hardly has any free time as it is) and magically never heard from the "friend" again. She was upset afterwards, because she had to sacrifice her lunch break to take the call and she legitimately thought they were going to catch up and talk.
In college I had a random person call me up trying to recruit for some apparent MLM scheme. They said within the first two minutes "I think you are PERFECT for this opportunity!!" I replied "Do you have my resume? How do you know I'm perfect?"The person seemed flustered and said "no, but (acquaintance I haven't heard from in years) spoke highly of you." The call ended shortly afterwards. I was 21 years old at the time with no sales experience, how was I perfect??
-
Sad how MLM schemes disrupt relationships. Have another one, I invited a long-term friend for a catch-up. She couldn't come along because her friend was having a tupperware party that night. I have never attended tupperware parties but several close friends have invited me to them. Sigh. I want to catch up with YOU not listen to you sell yourself out or sell out our friendship.
-
My girlfriend has a high paying corporate job. A friend from college randomly messaged her on FB really wanting to schedule a time to "catch up". So she moved her schedule around to take their phone call, and sure enough it was a MLM pitch. My gf politely declined the offer (citing she hardly has any free time as it is) and magically never heard from the "friend" again. She was upset afterwards, because she had to sacrifice her lunch break to take the call and she legitimately thought they were going to catch up and talk.
I've been burned by this too. Now when I get some kind of contact from someone I haven't heard from in a while, I always start with "this better not be about a 'business opportunity' ;-)"
Usually I don't hear from them again.
-
Sad how MLM schemes disrupt relationships. Have another one, I invited a long-term friend for a catch-up. She couldn't come along because her friend was having a tupperware party that night. I have never attended tupperware parties but several close friends have invited me to them. Sigh. I want to catch up with YOU not listen to you sell yourself out or sell out our friendship.
I would take it a step further than "disrupt". In the name of (measly) short term profits, they do lasting damage to relationships. If you reach out to me and try to pitch your MLM scheme, you can be 99.9% sure I will never help you out professionally even if it's years later. It's not that I'm holding a grudge, your judgement led you to be involved in a financially charged cult that sees friendships as a means to make a quick buck. Sorry, I'm not sticking my name and reputation on a reference for you.
-
For the first time, it has happened. I got a friend request on FB from a high school acquaintance. Haven't spoken to her since high school but we are both living in the same city right now. I creep her page and she sells for not one but TWO direct sales companies. Essential oils and weight loss crap. OH JOY. I accepted it and am counting down how long it takes her to message me. Any guesses?
Also she seems to post a lot of "inspirational" crap on her timeline that only ONE person is liking over and over. "Who would like to start removing toxins from their homes to create a safer, healthier environment for their family?" I am thinking it is her "upline mentor". Grabbing my popcorn...
-
Ok, I have an interesting story related to this topic. Relevant information: In the 1970s my parents were in one of the original pyramid schemes and I think they even made a little money on it. I was young (8-10ish), but I remember hearing them talk about it and I remember hearing on the news that they were making them illegal. I think I may have even asked my parents about it and they gave me a vague understanding of the issue because I was worried they were going to get in trouble.
It is now 1984, I am just graduated from high school and looking through the PennySaver for jobs. I see an ad for a sales job and call the number. They tell me to come in for an interview and give me a time and address. I show up and there are several other applicants there, maybe 15 people. We are herded into a conference room where we are told about some great product and how we can buy in with our starter kit and get other people to sell to make more money, etc. Now, all this is triggering my memory of the pyramid scheme, just with a product attached, so when the presenter asks for questions, I raise my hand and asked "Isn't this kinda like a pyramid scheme?" Now, I was fully expecting him to have a good explanation as to how this was NOT a pyramid scheme, however, what he said was "you can leave, NOW" and pointed to the door. As a naive and somewhat shy 18 year old, I was very embarrassed and shocked to be so abruptly told to leave, and I remember sitting in my car very shaken for a while before being able to drive home. Afterwards, I realized that I had basically unmasked their scam and that is why he was so angry, but that was definitely not my intention at the time. I am glad that I dodged that bullet though.
I guess they have just gotten better at it since then.
-
At a local summer festival 2 weeks ago, I was shocked at how many of the booths were occupied by MLM folks. We went into one tent that had a lot of clothing (and a prime location next to the beer garden), and once we realized it was Lularoe, we dropped it like it was hot. We couldn't get away fast enough!
Unless you're a local artist/business, if I can't price-check your shit on Amazon, I don't want it.
I'm ashamed to admit I did Amway for about 3 months in college, mostly because I was obsessed with the man who recruited me. That shit is some SERIOUS brainwashing. (When he invited me for coffee, I thought it was a date. Boy was I wrong!)
-
As a naive and somewhat shy 18 year old
Congrats on realizing what it was and having the guts to call them out. At that age I was just looking for a job even it was a revolving door of high school labor and didn't ask questions.
-
I'm ashamed to admit I did Amway for about 3 months in college, mostly because I was obsessed with the man who recruited me. That shit is some SERIOUS brainwashing. (When he invited me for coffee, I thought it was a date. Boy was I wrong!)
This! To the last word! And when I found out he was married, I still signed up. I even let them (him and wife) do a presentation for my parents and then I recruited one person for my downline. I earned a total of $6 and never cashed that check. 4 months later I was done.
But oh boy was he cute!
-
Jamberry nail wraps. I have managed to escape for the last couple of years despite a couple of people trying to sell to me, but got a longtime friend doing the hard sale and having a party...I think I'll make sure that I eat/drink enough to cover the minimum I can get away with buying.
-
My Mom was reading some Usborne books to my daughter this weekend.
"Do you buy your books from your cousin?"
Um, nope. These books cost me a quarter at a garage sale. I'm not paying MLM prices so she can be #girlboss.
-
My Mom was reading some Usborne books to my daughter this weekend.
"Do you buy your books from your cousin?"
Um, nope. These books cost me a quarter at a garage sale. I'm not paying MLM prices so she can be #girlboss.
I got asked through a Facebook mass-message to attend a book exchange party prior to Christmas last year. Did I dodge a bullet and this was what I was being offered?
-
My Mom was reading some Usborne books to my daughter this weekend.
"Do you buy your books from your cousin?"
Um, nope. These books cost me a quarter at a garage sale. I'm not paying MLM prices so she can be #girlboss.
I got asked through a Facebook mass-message to attend a book exchange party prior to Christmas last year. Did I dodge a bullet and this was what I was being offered?
Tough to say...
Book exchange kind of sounds like everyone brings and trades. But a book party may be the MLM. Good books, but way over priced.
-
Ugh. Someone on Facebook just used my friend's son's disability as a tool/pretense to invite her to an Usborne online "party".
-
I know because I've seen the $20K deposit before.
Well, I feel this is different from what you stated before. a 20K deposit represents 20K in revenue, not in profit.
In order to generate a 20K revenue, there has been inventory that needed to be purchased, an expensive subscription to the MLM in the first place (granted, just a one time expense), plus additional expenses such as the time spent promoting the business, possibly gas to go to events, etc.... I think I mentioned that above, but my little brother was also "making" $800 a month in an MLM. Except his expenses were $1000+ ...
For the sake of the discussion you should clarify which it is. Revenue or profit? What matters of course is the actual profit.
I would argue that 95% of people who try out MLM are unsuccessful because they have no idea what they are doing just like 95% of people couldn't start up their own business and run it successfully.
This is incorrect, and is exactly the kind of BS that MLMs love people to believe. There are studies that show that the failure rate in an MLM is at least 95% over the course of 10 years (this is a very conservative estimate). By comparison, the failure rate of small businesses is 64% over 10 years. If the failure rate was the same, I would agree with you, but the numbers prove that MLMs are statistically a worse proposition than starting one's own business. Source (https://www.ftc.gov/sites/default/files/documents/public_comments/trade-regulation-rule-disclosure-requirements-and-prohibitions-concerning-business-opportunities-ftc.r511993-00008%C2%A0/00008-57281.pdf)
If you're of the mindset that MLM's are bad because they prey on weak people - then there are 1M other things that we should remove from society because they prey on weak people.
Probably, but what's your point? "Let's not discuss why this one thing is bad because there are so many other bad things anyway"?
This entire site exists because most people can't figure out the difference between a need and a want which causes them to inevitably spend more than they need to because our entire society preys on that weakness.
Exactly. This site exists to help people getting out of that financially destructive behavior. Conversely, MLMs encourage financially destructive behavior on more than half of their participants.
I'm done with this conversation - so thanks for that. I responded to answer 1 person's question about whether it was possible for 1 random person that they knew to make that much money in a month in a company I'm familiar with (& FYI, they didn't specify whether the "making" was profit or revenue) because you told them it wasn't, which is false. I don't need to be convinced MLM's are bad in most cases.... I've repeatedly said that I don't believe MLM's are a fantastic idea for most people.
I will clarify the one point you asked for clarification on with the answer that I don't know - LLR profit is 50% on what is sold, but the people I am acquainted with who make $20K checks earn some part of that money from training bonuses(I don't know or care how that works), but as previously pointed out by another poster - the average trainer makes $4500 in bonus/mo. so one could guess that a $20K check is ~$12K profit less whatever additional they invest back into their business every month & any additional costs they're accruing such as shipping. Additionally, a check isn't a total monthly payment - the end of month check is the bonus + whatever you sold most recently, but payments are made ever few days based on your sales activity so the deposits I've seen aren't a total monthly amount - beyond that I wouldn't know. I remember my sister explaining how often her sales money came in so she could purchase additional stock back in the beginning, but it's not something I recall in great detail. I generally don't ask people for their personal financial information - some people get excited & over-share (or I guess they live in dreamland where a large check will bring me over to their side, but I don't even wear LLR so I'm certainly not interested in selling it).
Just wanted to say thank you for your input. Sorry not everyone understood your point. It's possible to make money, but it's a LOT of work, and you're basically chasing a fad, no matter what kind of network you might manage to build up.
Funny, in reading this thread, I remember telling someone that I'd noticed on a trip to the Farmer's Market in Aspen that I was hopelessly out of it because everyone was wearing leggings to my good ol' comfy blue jeans. Whoever it was mentioned LLR. I had no idea who/what that was, so I just kind of ignored it. I guess maybe I dodged a bullet, just because I don't care if I'm the worst-dressed (tongue firmly planted in cheek) girl at the Aspen Farmer's Market.
Then what, pray tell was I doing in Aspen, you might well ask? Because DSD lives there and more importantly, the grandbaby. Over a barrel, I tell you, over a barrel.
-
I remember being invited to a Saladmaster party when my ex wife and I were both early 20's with 2 kids in diapers and didn't have a pot to piss in, and they were trying to sell us a couple of grand worth of cookware. I enjoyed the dinner they cooked, but convincing them that I couldn't even buy the potato peeler gave me heartburn.
-
Funny, in reading this thread, I remember telling someone that I'd noticed on a trip to the Farmer's Market in Aspen that I was hopelessly out of it because everyone was wearing leggings to my good ol' comfy blue jeans. Whoever it was mentioned LLR. I had no idea who/what that was, so I just kind of ignored it. I guess maybe I dodged a bullet, just because I don't care if I'm the worst-dressed (tongue firmly planted in cheek) girl at the Aspen Farmer's Market.
Yeah, if I hadn't read this thread, I would have no idea what LuLaRoe was or that lots of random people are now in the business of selling loud-printed leggings.
Yesterday I walked by a rack of multi-printed leggings for sale on the curb, $1.99 each. I assumed they were LLR cast-offs. Can't imagine they'd be much fun to wear in a city summer heat wave.
-
I have a friend who's selling Rodan + Fields. She posted today:
Why am I obsessed with this? Because six months ago I could hardly get the tips of my lashes through the eyelash curler and was quickly racking up $1,500+ a year trying to make my lashes "normal." ... After six months on Lash Boost, two tubes and one coat of mascara, these are 100% my own lashes! And I've spent less than $300 total because one tube lasted me up to 90 days.
I *really* hope she didn't spend that much and is just trying to set an expectation for her clients so that her products seem relatively cheap.
-
Just watched an AWESOME documentary on Netflix about Herbalife called Betting on Zero.
It helped me understand people's motives for getting sucked into MLMs. It also helped me understand the brainwashed nature of people in MLMs--sunk cost fallacy is part of it, and also just the difficulty in feeling like a fool with a garage full of unsold product. I think there's a lot of shame involved.
This also helps me understand why people post so maniacally on fb about their MLM doings. These scams play into so many American dream narratives and I think the need for affirmation must be overwhelming.
Thanks for mentioning this. I just came across it on Netflix, watching now.
-
SIL posted to facebook that she needs to place an order to maintain her level of "sales consultant" with her MLM product.
Meanwhile, I am happy that her 15 year old nephew (my son) did not get another pink fluffy, scented stuffed animal for his birthday this month like last year (selected from her MLM list, of course). I think he received nothing, which I think is awesome.
Gah, the kid has asthma and she sells scented products and candles. He does not want scented teddy bears, that he feels he needs to keep on display for when she or his cousins come over!
-
I've been captivated by this thread - not totally sure why, I guess part of the attraction is watching a train wreck (sneak attacks? yikes!) as well as confirmation of my bias against these schemes.
My high school girlfriends were really into the home sales parties - Tupperware, underwear, clothes, bath products - which I attended just often enough to be polite and always bought one item. That wasn't TOO bad - none of them were consultants themselves so there was a bit of variety and although I wouldn't have bought the products otherwise I mentally filed them under 'cost of friendship' expenses like sponsoring a friend's charity fun run or buying their band's CD.
Later on, several of my sister's friends got involved with Landmark Forum (a series of 'personal development' workshops where you are heavily pressured to pay for additional 'training' to become a facilitator and to recruit your friends drawing on your knowledge of their vulnerabilities which is .. uugghh). I was living overseas at the time, and agonized over carefully worded emails warning her not to get involved without coming across as a bossy older sister she would want to rebel against. Luckily, she was smarter than that and her mates eventually drifted away from it too, though several thousand dollars poorer.
These days none of my nearest and dearest are involved in MLM but there is a fair bit of low level promotion from acquaintances on Facebook for Scentsy, LipSense, Jamberry etc. I don't really mind as it's easy enough to ignore. What I find uncomfortable is an old friend who has gotten deeply involved in either Amway or a very similar MLM and posts constant cryptic messages about living her '10/10 Diamond Lifestyle', advertorial for some kind of energy drink, and encouragements to contact her privately about an amazing 'business opportunity'. Shortly after she started posting about these amazing (unnamed) conferences she was attending she sent me a friendly private message that I never responded to. Ordinarily I would have been thrilled to catch up and talk about old times but I could see that this was headed towards her offering me an amazing opportunity for success, and it was just too awkward. Sad.
-
^^ I had a friend that I was out of touch with for about 2 years call me up and ask me to meet to discuss an un-named opportunity.
I assumed that it was to sell me life insurance, and I asked him flat out if it was. Of course it wasn't but when we met, it was Amway.
The unnamed pitches are the worst.
-
I highly recommend Season 2 Episode 22 of King of Queens.
Doug and Carrie have dinner with their annoying neighbors and Doug gets involved in a pyramid scheme when Tim starts convincing him on how much of a great idea it is. Doug doesn't realize it's really a pyramid scheme, doesn't believe Carrie when she tells him and even gets Arthur involved in it as well. Super funny and totally relatable.
-
Later on, several of my sister's friends got involved with Landmark Forum (a series of 'personal development' workshops where you are heavily pressured to pay for additional 'training' to become a facilitator and to recruit your friends drawing on your knowledge of their vulnerabilities which is .. uugghh). I was living overseas at the time, and agonized over carefully worded emails warning her not to get involved without coming across as a bossy older sister she would want to rebel against. Luckily, she was smarter than that and her mates eventually drifted away from it too, though several thousand dollars poorer.
Glad it didn't get too bad and she got out. It can get really weird in Landmark, Lifespring, Sterling, and similar LGATs:
https://www.culteducation.com/group/1020-landmark-education.html
A good friend of mine got sucked into Landmark. Hopefully he gets over it too, but it's been over a year.
-
Later on, several of my sister's friends got involved with Landmark Forum (a series of 'personal development' workshops where you are heavily pressured to pay for additional 'training' to become a facilitator and to recruit your friends drawing on your knowledge of their vulnerabilities which is .. uugghh). I was living overseas at the time, and agonized over carefully worded emails warning her not to get involved without coming across as a bossy older sister she would want to rebel against. Luckily, she was smarter than that and her mates eventually drifted away from it too, though several thousand dollars poorer.
Glad it didn't get too bad and she got out. It can get really weird in Landmark, Lifespring, Sterling, and similar LGATs:
https://www.culteducation.com/group/1020-landmark-education.html
A good friend of mine got sucked into Landmark. Hopefully he gets over it too, but it's been over a year.
Oh drat. I thought they'd died out after 9/11. I had a peripheral encounter with them back around Y2K through a charity I was trying to save. It wasn't a pretty sight.
-
I will say that I do sell for a company. I love it. I do not push the product on people, I have a separate Facebook page for it and ask before adding anyone. I am doing it for fun. Will I get rich? Heck no! Am I having fun? Yes. And I get some of my things I like to have for free or half price...bonus for me :) I loved reading all these stories though!
-
Ughhh....
I guess I'm a bit into a pyramid scheme myself. After all when I put more money into my index funds they then create employees (dividends and returns) and then those employees bring in even more employees.
But seriously, my old neighbor is seriously into these. The wife and I went to one of her wine and cheese parties and bought a couple bottles of wine, why not. But since then she has gotten into some company that signs you up for utilities, cable companies, and cell phones. She told my wife how much she could save us on our phone bill and my wife replied that would mean we'd almost pay nothing for our plans (pre-paid). She then invited my wife over to hang out. My wife then got the hard pitch about finance and helping us out of debt. To this my wife replied that we don't have debt (we do but how do you justify paying off student loans that are 2.5%) and that I could teach her how to get out of debt, invest, and retire early. She is now with some company that gives you a Jeep and "pays for it". She is always posting about insurance and financial planning on FB.
ooooh, can you share what the company name is?
Super sloooow to reply, sorry. It's Tranont. I see posts on FB all the time but the only replies I see are from others with their bedazzled Jeeps.
-
SIL seems to have moved passed MLM and onto selling crafts. So, only about $1k in machines and supplies, and no cult like testimonials, so far.
-
I always attend these parties. You often get a free gift just for attending, not to mention a few wines and a bit of chit chat. If I really want something, I host a party myself and get it for free. Never spent a dime of anything myself.
-
SIL seems to have moved passed MLM and onto selling crafts. So, only about $1k in machines and supplies, and no cult like testimonials, so far.
One of my friends is doing this, but she got everything second hand for about $200 and managed to sell her first couple projects for about $100. Thankfully she's under no illusions about this being anything but a hobby that sometimes makes money (it's quite time consuming).
-
Thanks for posting this. I have the same problem. Since I am a stay at home mom, a lot of other women see me as an easy target for MLM. They can't imagine why I don't work a home-based business. About 60% of other moms I know are in MLM. No joke.
I also am a member of "mothers of multiples" and I found out most of the moms join just to have access to a wider network of women to prey on, to pitch their business to. Sadly, I joined just to make friends. :(
I had to block one woman from facebook, email and my phone number. She harassed me via all three. When I told her nicely that I wasn't interested she said "there's no need for you to be so mean about it". I was nice, but I didn't sugar coat it too much or my meaning would have been lost.
They don't even want to sell products, and in fact, many will get upset if you only act interested in buying a cosmetic item or piece of jewelry. Their end goal is to recruit. That is where the big money is made. I tend to feel uncomfortable around people who want access to my bank account, credit card, etc.
I know many intelligent and nice people who get mixed up in these. I don't know why. One of the main flaws of MLM is that you recruit your own competition. This makes no sense, if you think about it. Why recruit other people to compete against you? Also, most MLMs become a saturated market after several years. Mary Kay is a good example of a saturated market.
The free car is a lie. It is a leased car with an option to buy. The person can only drive the car as long as they maintain their sales at a certain level. If their sales drop, they have to give the car back. Of course, they can always buy it. With their own money.
-
I always attend these parties. You often get a free gift just for attending, not to mention a few wines and a bit of chit chat. If I really want something, I host a party myself and get it for free. Never spent a dime of anything myself.
You're lucky. I've never gotten the free gift that was offered, they seem to forget about it. And they don't serve food at these parties. I guess that would cut into their overhead costs too much, to buy a bag of chips and a case of beer.
But if you're getting wine, you're doing good!
-
Thanks for posting this. I have the same problem. Since I am a stay at home mom, a lot of other women see me as an easy target for MLM. They can't imagine why I don't work a home-based business. About 60% of other moms I know are in MLM. No joke.
That doesn't suprise me. I have a friend that recently became a SAHM and mentioned how it seems like all of her friends are involved in a MLM.
-
Thanks for posting this. I have the same problem. Since I am a stay at home mom, a lot of other women see me as an easy target for MLM. They can't imagine why I don't work a home-based business. About 60% of other moms I know are in MLM. No joke.
That doesn't suprise me. I have a friend that recently became a SAHM and mentioned how it seems like all of her friends are involved in a MLM.
Yes. They're all involved in MLM. Some have more education than I do, and have worked in more professional careers than I have. So I wonder why they don't recognize the pyramid structure of these businesses, and understand economic terms like "saturated market". If I look around and see everyone on my block is opening up a lemonade stand on their front lawn, I wouldn't open one up too. Common sense would tell me that the competition is too fierce already.
I am not the brightest cookie out there but I've never gotten involved in MLM.
-
Overheard on my LinkedIn page. I wasn't sure whether to post this here or on the Facebook thread due to the content.
Who wants a job making $75k a year?
Be careful how the income is calculated, here's what that actually means:
-$75k salary position working 50-75 hours per week (sometimes more)
-Equals $30/hour
-$15k in taxes, $60k take home, $5k per month
-$2000 rent/mortgage
-$400 car payment
-$250 auto insurance
-$320 health insurance
-$500 meals/entertainment
-$500 utilities & internet
-$300 gas and maintenance
-$120 cell phone
$568 left over to cover anything from credit card debt, student loans, medical expenses, child expenses, or this thing called retirement savings...
Are you living paycheck to paycheck, or can you skip a paycheck and be okay for the next 3-6 months? More than 80% of Americans don't have an extra $500 at the end of the month, are you one of them?
Congratulations! You're surviving...barely.
Why not find a way to do something one time and get paid month after month? Of course it will start small, but consistently your income will grow for the future; or did someone tell you that you can get rich overnight?
The writer of that is a senior officer of a MLM company that sells residential and business services such as phone/internet/security/payment processing. I didn't even realize he was pitching an MLM until I looked him up and found him and his company on Youtube. 183 comments on that LinkedIn posting and they're evenly split between: dude, your cost of living numbers make no sense, What are you selling?, and What's your point? Only a handful took the bait and talked about how life sucks and you can't get ahead. The Youtube video is him accepting a regional vice president promotion at a massive conference and the whole production (especially his acceptance speech) looks just like your normal MLM commercial. From that video I went to his company's Youtube channel and right there in front they have a disclaimer that no, they're not a pyramid scheme, they're an MLM! It's totally different!
-
I know many intelligent and nice people who get mixed up in these. I don't know why. One of the main flaws of MLM is that you recruit your own competition. This makes no sense, if you think about it. Why recruit other people to compete against you?
Thank you!! I have been trying to find the correct words to articulate this thought. If you had a regular sells job where you were making bank off commission and your boss sent a memo we have to bring in 500 extra people to sell the same products you are selling would that make you severely disgruntled?
-
I know many intelligent and nice people who get mixed up in these. I don't know why. One of the main flaws of MLM is that you recruit your own competition. This makes no sense, if you think about it. Why recruit other people to compete against you?
Thank you!! I have been trying to find the correct words to articulate this thought. If you had a regular sells job where you were making bank off commission and your boss sent a memo we have to bring in 500 extra people to sell the same products you are selling would that make you severely disgruntled?
But that's the "beauty" of them! You sign them up under yourself and then make a commission off of their sales, their enrollment fee, their required minimum purchases without having to do anything. As long as they aren't trying to steal your customers then you win! [/sarc]
-
Mary Kay Cosmetics is headquartered in my city. There are probably more Mary Kay sales reps in Dallas, than anywhere else in the United States. Most women I know have been involved in MK, either hosting parties or working as sales reps. If they realized how saturated the market is here in Dallas, they'd understand why they will go broke in the business eventually. Most wind up trying to sell off their inventory on ebay. Just go to ebay. Almost 10,000 listings for MK Cosmetics.
Many women wind up buying more inventory to get bonuses and to get to the next level. They are basically selling this stuff to themselves. They have massive credit card debt, in some cases. I knew a man who was in Mary Kay and he drove the company car. It seemed he was successful, but I asked a friend about him later on and she told me his home had been foreclosed on.
-
I know many intelligent and nice people who get mixed up in these. I don't know why. One of the main flaws of MLM is that you recruit your own competition. This makes no sense, if you think about it. Why recruit other people to compete against you? Also, most MLMs become a saturated market after several years. Mary Kay is a good example of a saturated market.
Aside from competing in a saturated sales market (assuming you even know how to "market" in the first place), the only way to really have sustainable profit in these businesses is the recruitment (down trace? down stream?) where you're making money off of other folks' work. There simply aren't enough people in the world for this to work for more than a handful of others.
-
My biggest issue with MLM people has always been, they get their feelings hurt when you tell them "no" unless you sugarcoat it to the point where the meaning of "no" is completely lost and they think you're saying "maybe". But it baffles me how anyone can be a so-called businessperson and yet, get their feelings hurt so easily.
-
I guess I'm a bit of a jackass but I wouldn't mind if somebody got their feelings hurt in that situation.
Anyway, "hurt feelings" are just another sales tactic.
-
If they want to do well in sales, they'll have to be nicer to people themselves I guess.
It's kinda funny I've known people who didn't like me (and even admitted it, in some cases). Then, they got involved in MLM and were all of a sudden sending me friend requests on FB or trying to get to know me, or inviting me to "parties". I'd rather they be honest with themselves and stick to their original feelings towards me.
-
Just got a FB message from a friend inviting me to an online mlm party. She's trying to use this for a legit side hustle, and I hope she makes a ton. However, I politely declined her party invite and told her about the secret to our financial survival-MMM!
Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk
-
No, wife of an acquaintance I see every year or two, I don't want to host a "party" at my house so you can sell childrens' books. We all have library cards already, thanks.
-
Just got a FB message from a friend inviting me to an online mlm party. She's trying to use this for a legit side hustle, and I hope she makes a ton. However, I politely declined her party invite and told her about the secret to our financial survival-MMM!
Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk
The only benefit I ever saw to these was the "party" part. I just don't get how an online event is a "party". It's a promotion, not a party.
-
Just got a FB message from a friend inviting me to an online mlm party. She's trying to use this for a legit side hustle, and I hope she makes a ton. However, I politely declined her party invite and told her about the secret to our financial survival-MMM!
Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk
The only benefit I ever saw to these was the "party" part. I just don't get how an online event is a "party". It's a promotion, not a party.
Party=social event with no pressure to buy something.
-
No, wife of an acquaintance I see every year or two, I don't want to host a "party" at my house so you can sell childrens' books. We all have library cards already, thanks.
I've already been pressured to buy Usborne books, and it's a one year contract, I believe, where you pay around $50 a month and they ship books to you. MLMs are getting worse these days with trying to rope customers into long term contracts, rather than just allowing them to make a one time purchase. Once you're in a contract, very hard to get out of it.
Like you, I cannot imagine spending $50 a month on children's books when we have a library card. And it's free.
-
No, wife of an acquaintance I see every year or two, I don't want to host a "party" at my house so you can sell childrens' books. We all have library cards already, thanks.
I've already been pressured to buy Usborne books, and it's a one year contract, I believe, where you pay around $50 a month and they ship books to you. MLMs are getting worse these days with trying to rope customers into long term contracts, rather than just allowing them to make a one time purchase. Once you're in a contract, very hard to get out of it.
Like you, I cannot imagine spending $50 a month on children's books when we have a library card. And it's free.
It makes sense that the concept would go in that direction. If they can't convince you to buy enough of their product with actual business skill, they'll just trap you.
-
It makes sense that the concept would go in that direction. If they can't convince you to buy enough of their product with actual business skill, they'll just trap you.
That's exactly what they do. Trap people into contracts and monthly billing to a credit card. Many people don't understand or read the fine print that it's a contract. And that is why they won't sell to anyone who doesn't have a credit card. I often lie and tell them, oh gosh, I have bad credit and had to cut up all my cards. This is a good way to get them to leave you alone.
-
UGHHHH. Wife of a friend messaged me on FB out of the blue the other day. Started with "Hey Sweetie" (in no context would she ever call me Sweetie. Neither would most people, for that matter. I am fairly tall and a bit blunt, I don't come across as a 'sweetie') and then followed it with her "sales" to help her keep her "selling level" and stuff. Another conservative Christian SAHM falls prey to the MLM kingdom. I replied and told her that I had zero interest, and did not want any calls, FB contact, group invites, or invites to "parties" to do with any sort of direct selling like that. She took it surprisingly well, didn't do the 'feeling hurt' route mentioned previously that seems SO common. Interesting someone mentioned this as a sales tactic- I hadn't thought about it, but that *really* fits my experiences.
-
Thanks for posting this. I have the same problem. Since I am a stay at home mom, a lot of other women see me as an easy target for MLM. They can't imagine why I don't work a home-based business. About 60% of other moms I know are in MLM. No joke.
That doesn't suprise me. I have a friend that recently became a SAHM and mentioned how it seems like all of her friends are involved in a MLM.
Yes. They're all involved in MLM. Some have more education than I do, and have worked in more professional careers than I have. So I wonder why they don't recognize the pyramid structure of these businesses, and understand economic terms like "saturated market". If I look around and see everyone on my block is opening up a lemonade stand on their front lawn, I wouldn't open one up too. Common sense would tell me that the competition is too fierce already.
I am not the brightest cookie out there but I've never gotten involved in MLM.
My wife is a SAHM and helps organize a local Meetup group for those with little kids. She has to kick MLM-ers out sometimes, and the confusing thing is, why not come to some events before trying to sell crap? At least put in the minimum effort, and maybe your kids will have fun, because people do join these things on purpose to make friends.
My wife didn't enjoy the local mothers of multiples group either, though I don't think anybody tried to sell her anything. I think she was weirded out that nobody was bringing their kids to the event.
-
My wife is a SAHM and helps organize a local Meetup group for those with little kids. She has to kick MLM-ers out sometimes, and the confusing thing is, why not come to some events before trying to sell crap? At least put in the minimum effort, and maybe your kids will have fun, because people do join these things on purpose to make friends.
It's sad these women can't just get together and be friends, and let their kids play together. With no strings attached. I wish my Moms of Multiples group would kick out the MLM-ers, but they don't. I have blocked one of the members from facebook, email and my phone, all three. She wouldn't stop sending messages and invites.
-
I live in Baja Mexico. Pretty isolated, peninsula, small towns.
Just found out my niece is making $4000 USD / month selling Mary Kay, just from her commissions from her downline. Anything she direct sells is on top of that. WTF?
Her mom is under her and also doing well.
My niece has 136 people directly under her. She's been in it for a long time, and works hard (probably full timeish) training her team and all that. Pretty impressive.
-
My wife just told me about a friend of hers. The friend signed up as a consultant for Thrive as she wanted to try the product and it had a good sign on discount. She then also posted on facebook asking for honest feedback from others who have used the product. Thrive contacted her and told her she couldn't do that and then blocked access to her consultant account. So she immediately cancelled her order and requested a refund.
-
From a former co-worker, who is barely an acquaintance, a FB IM message (all typos were his, not mine):
Hey bud its NAME hey I sponsered you into one of programs. I have a work. I was wondering if you had some time to sit sown tomorrow and go over it give me a call and I will explain further. My number is XXXXXXXXXX
Looks like American Income Life. He was a maintenance tech, we haven't spoken in nearly two years. Married with a small child and another one on the way. Hopefully he wises up soon and just gets a job in construction, which would offer better pay and utilizes his current skill set so he can support his family.
-
Here is a positive MLM experience..
I bought a Thirty-one wallet from the thrift store last month fpr $6 . It is amazingly great quality, perfect for what I needed. I don't think it was ever used, either.
-
Hey bud its NAME hey I sponsered you into one of programs. I have a work. I was wondering if you had some time to sit sown tomorrow and go over it give me a call and I will explain further. My number is XXXXXXXXXX
What does that even mean?!!?
Also, I really hope he actually typed 'NAME'.lol
-
Hey bud its NAME hey I sponsered you into one of programs. I have a work. I was wondering if you had some time to sit sown tomorrow and go over it give me a call and I will explain further. My number is XXXXXXXXXX
What does that even mean?!!?
Also, I really hope he actually typed 'NAME'.lol
Ha Ha, no, he actually got that part correct, along with the phone number, but he didn't even put dashes in it, so it was literally 10 digits all together. I think the sad part is that I glanced at the IM and just moved on. It wasn't until I typed it out for y'all today that I realized all the errors! WOW...
-
This thread has been a good read that entertained me and then made me sad too.
If blocking "friends" into a drive way isn't some form of desperation, then I'm not sure what it is. Still, a fun read.
Luckily my experience with MLM has been minimal and pain free. I think that mostly has to due with the people that are selling are actual work friends so they don't take the "no" personally. It helps that they know me enough to know I don't wear leggings (I have a lularoe friend), buy things that smell (Sentsey - sp?), nor wear makeup (the other ones). None of them are stay at home parents.
I know if I go to a party (online or otherwise) I will buy, so I just don't go.
It really makes me sad to think people bought in to these for the right to sell. That makes me kinda mad.
LV
-
Here is a positive MLM experience..
I bought a Thirty-one wallet from the thrift store last month fpr $6 . It is amazingly great quality, perfect for what I needed. I don't think it was ever used, either.
You can buy any MLM product on Ebay. Tons of Mary Kay cosmetics, pampered chef products, Longaberger baskets....all are sold on there. The consultants usually have to sell off their inventory somehow.
-
Thought of y'all today as I happily unfriended a Facebook "friend" who won't stop inviting me to Partylite online parties. No thank you!
-
My friend is a SAHM who used to work as a graphic designer. I offered to give her work doing branding and graphic design for my business. She didn't even respond back to me.
I spent thousands to have someone else do it instead.
Meanwhile, she's trying to sell lipsense. She would've made more in a month or two working for me, than she probably ever will selling lipsense.
-
A couple of acquaintances within a large group of local friends recently joined a wine MLM and then started marketing it to everyone else as "free wine". We had a bit of a spat when I pointed out that nothing is really free and the structure increases the average cost. I don't know if anyone actually signed up... I'm just glad we're not hearing about it anymore.
The next time we all hung out, I gave away a bunch of cheap bottles, with an Actual Free Wine sign. To keep it good-natured, I gave the couple in question a nice red too*. All told, cost me less than one bottle of the shite they're selling xD
*not expensive, just really good.
-
If you need ammunition to get someone to stop participating in MLM, show them this hysterical John Oliver video:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=s6MwGeOm8iI
One powerful message: if you were to recruit 5 people into an MLM scheme and they each recruit 5, and so on....after 14 cycles you would exceed the population on earth and we would need to start reproducing!
-
If you need ammunition to get someone to stop participating in MLM, show them this hysterical John Oliver video:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=s6MwGeOm8iI
One powerful message: if you were to recruit 5 people into an MLM scheme and they each recruit 5, and so on....after 14 cycles you would exceed the population on earth and we would need to start reproducing!
Awesome job by John Oliver. Is going to see the movie Betting on Zero to support the film maker
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/apr/11/herbalife-documentary-betting-on-zero
-
This morning on my neighborhood FB page, there's an invite for Mom's & kids to learn how to make GOOD choices for their health, at a Lunch Box makeover. Zooming into the photo, I see a picture of random school supplies, with pouches of Juice Plus. Sigh, getting the kids involved in MLM at an early age! Ugh...
-
The John Oliver video was good. Much enjoyment was had.
-
One of my cousins is one of those obnoxious Beachbody coaches and literally every single post on social media is her bragging about how great her Peanut butter-acai berry-lemon-chocolate Shakology was this morning and to contact her to order and how inspiring and rewarding it is to be a coach and what groups she has going and how to join. Literally 1 person ever interacts with her posts. Not even her mom "likes" them lol
I always have a bit of a chuckle because I have green smoothies for breakfast every morning (Almonds, spinach, berries, dates, almond milk, and a banana) which are probably a gajillion times healthier and CHEAPER than those shake packets.
Another good friend has cycled through a few MLM schemes. Jamberry, Pampered Chef, one for adult coloring books I think, a few others that I'm not remembering off the top of my head, and now she's on Norwex. I think she hosts those parties to get the free stuff from her "mentor" or whatever, she doesn't have anyone under her. But she's struggling financially (overwhelming student loans on a teachers salary) and it makes me sad to see her jumping on these so desperately. She isn't pushy at all, but her facebook parties always fall flat from lack of interest. Her time would be much better spent on other pursuits.
-
one for adult coloring books I think
Is this real?
That can't be real.
Shit. It's real: https://www.facebook.com/NewHorizonColoringBooks
-
One of my cousins is one of those obnoxious Beachbody coaches and literally every single post on social media is her bragging about how great her Peanut butter-acai berry-lemon-chocolate Shakology was this morning and to contact her to order and how inspiring and rewarding it is to be a coach and what groups she has going and how to join. Literally 1 person ever interacts with her posts. Not even her mom "likes" them lol
I always have a bit of a chuckle because I have green smoothies for breakfast every morning (Almonds, spinach, berries, dates, almond milk, and a banana) which are probably a gajillion times healthier and CHEAPER than those shake packets.
Another good friend has cycled through a few MLM schemes. Jamberry, Pampered Chef, one for adult coloring books I think, a few others that I'm not remembering off the top of my head, and now she's on Norwex. I think she hosts those parties to get the free stuff from her "mentor" or whatever, she doesn't have anyone under her. But she's struggling financially (overwhelming student loans on a teachers salary) and it makes me sad to see her jumping on these so desperately. She isn't pushy at all, but her facebook parties always fall flat from lack of interest. Her time would be much better spent on other pursuits.
You need to post pick and brag about your shake and then tag her!
-
When I was little, my mom had some friends tried to recruit her into selling Amway. Luckily she didn't fall into the trap but did agree to buy some of the products as her support. It's just hard to say no to friends and I get that. We didn't mind using the products and some were quite useful. I couldn't remember what we bought but my mom didn't my much anyway.
I thought MLM was non-existence until there was one day suddenly everyone was talking about "Worldventure" and how great it was. I did a bit research and immediately identified that it was MLM. It was funny that a girl in my local ski chat group started posting worldventure adds every single day for multiple times a day. It was all about "we are helping people to fulfill their dreams and etc." Group members started getting annoyed and asked her to stop. She got so angry and started to say not very nice words so got kicked out finally.
I thought that was the closest interaction with this MLM until I learned that one of my mom's friends got tricked into it and had to pay thousands of dollars to buy a vacation from WV before it got expired after 2 years. Guess she didn't read the fine print when signing up. She is still paying for the membership every month even though she knew it's a scam and didn't get any discount when she brought that vacation from WV last time. I'm speechless. At least she is not actively recruiting anyone to join so my mom can still befriend with her.
-
I have a ton of school-mates on FB who cover the spectrum of every single MLM mentioned here, and probably a few more that aren't listed. It's incredible. I do see that it's exclusively the stay at home mom set that attempts these strategies, and it makes be sad to see soo many of them fall victim to these scams. In many cases, these people are struggling, and they make those struggles public on their page all the time. I noticed one who just yesterday posted a reminder of her LuLaRoe party coming up today, and seeing what y'all have written about the startup costs, I can only imagine that there is some sort of financing that makes even more money to the company, and puts these people who can least afford it in even more debt. This particular mom often complains about the lack of heat and various other problems in her apartment, does the side hustle on occasion of being a blackjack dealer at private parties at very off hours, and has two children with some medical issues that her hubby's insurance doesn't do a great job of covering the cost. Yup, a whole lot of "poor me" in those posts, and now an MLM? Scary and Sad.
I have a neighbor who is all about Plexus and "Think Pink". She often tells these stories of how much weight she's lost (looks the same to me), and how her OB/GYN was thrilled to learn that she's drinking Plexus while pregnant! Yeah, I highly doubt that. Finances have always been tight in the 2 years that she's moved to our reasonably priced neighborhood, but I'm guessing that someone who buys a $200K house and has a $2K mortgage payment probably had no down payment and horrible credit. Now that baby #2 is on the way, they've listed the house for an inflated amount, and the plan is to go back to renting.
However, my all time favorite post from her about Plexus is the attached file. She freely admits that she is at the Ambassador level, and talks about how much $$ she's adding to her HHI, yet this chart disputes her claims, not to mention how biased the chart is, someone did some creative work on that thing! I'm also wondering if the Plexus training program explained to her that this isn't the type of thing you should be posting. I resisted the urge to make any comments, but this shows how clueless she is about the whole thing...
An actually very intelligent friend of mine posted this chart (or very similar) today. I really didn't know what to say. So...you're making slightly under $40 PER MONTH on average and you want me to join you? Underneath were comments from other salespeople, "Praise Jesus," "So glad I get to work from home," etc.. I had to just scroll away so I didn't ask them if they knew how to math.
ETA...sorry I don't know how to re-post the chart I guess.
-
I have now been invited to 3 MLM parties scheduled within the same week. Jamberry, LipSense and Mary Kay. Ugh.
-
However, my all time favorite post from her about Plexus is the attached file. She freely admits that she is at the Ambassador level, and talks about how much $$ she's adding to her HHI, yet this chart disputes her claims, not to mention how biased the chart is, someone did some creative work on that thing! I'm also wondering if the Plexus training program explained to her that this isn't the type of thing you should be posting. I resisted the urge to make any comments, but this shows how clueless she is about the whole thing...
Wow! A whopping 0.59% make above the US average listed in that particular chart, which is not particylarly high, and a whopping 1.21% make a living wage (provided you're frugal) out of it. And this does't include any money you have to spend yourself in the product to reach/maintain status.... Great chart.
A friend of mine recently joined "younique" and unfriended me when I refused to buy overpriced mascara (as a present) and told her MLMs can't mathematically work. Oh well. I even looked at their compensation system (which is relatively understandable) and of course if you're recruiting anybody who likes the product to be under you (even if only to get the 20%/25% discounts) it's not clear how you can get the "personal sales" part except by paying yourself, out of your profits if you're high up above to actually have any.
-
However, my all time favorite post from her about Plexus is the attached file. She freely admits that she is at the Ambassador level, and talks about how much $$ she's adding to her HHI, yet this chart disputes her claims, not to mention how biased the chart is, someone did some creative work on that thing! I'm also wondering if the Plexus training program explained to her that this isn't the type of thing you should be posting. I resisted the urge to make any comments, but this shows how clueless she is about the whole thing...
Wow! A whopping 0.59% make above the US average listed in that particular chart, which is not particylarly high, and a whopping 1.21% make a living wage (provided you're frugal) out of it. And this does't include any money you have to spend yourself in the product to reach/maintain status.... Great chart.
A friend of mine recently joined "younique" and unfriended me when I refused to buy overpriced mascara (as a present) and told her MLMs can't mathematically work. Oh well. I even looked at their compensation system (which is relatively understandable) and of course if you're recruiting anybody who likes the product to be under you (even if only to get the 20%/25% discounts) it's not clear how you can get the "personal sales" part except by paying yourself, out of your profits if you're high up above to actually have any.
Yeah but a mere 50% of people make more than average income, at those rates you might as well risk it an make it big using a MLM.
-
FTFY: the Plexus graphs, scaled.
The original graph was log-scaled.
The Plexus graph has changed a little since it was posted here. Here is the new graph from their website.
See it in the wild here: https://media.plexusworldwide.com/cdn/FINAL-2015-Income-Disclosure-Statement.pdf
This graph is slightly more honest. The fine print lets us know that they excluded the 65% of entry level people who did not qualify for commissions - with them average commissions for the entry level group would be $111. Overall average across all ranks < $2000/yr; median $213.23.
My BIL took me to a TEAM meeting when he was involved in MonaVie. One of the presenters talked about how in the corporate world, 5% of the people make 95% of the money - or something like that. I don't recall how directly they claimed that signing up would provide an opportunity to break free from a job working to earn money for someone else; but when they passed out the MonaVie income disclosure statement, I noticed how even after they elimintated the "wholesale customers" who didn't have enough volume to qualify for commissions the numbers they gave (including self-reported average hours spent on the business) indicated that about 95% of the sales force made less than minimum wage in their "business".
-
If you need ammunition to get someone to stop participating in MLM, show them this hysterical John Oliver video:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=s6MwGeOm8iI
One powerful message: if you were to recruit 5 people into an MLM scheme and they each recruit 5, and so on....after 14 cycles you would exceed the population on earth and we would need to start reproducing!
If you liked that one, watch this one on retirement plans, it is awesome --> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gvZSpET11ZY
I've never heard of John Oliver before, but I loved the videos, thanks for the link.
-
One of the presenters talked about how in the corporate world, 5% of the people make 95% of the money - or something like that.
Did he say: "In the corporate world 5% of the people make 95% of the money. So unjust. Come to us where less than 0.5% of the people make what would be a decent corporate salary".
-
Did he say: "In the corporate world 5% of the people make 95% of the money. So unjust. Come to us where less than 0.5% of the people make what would be a decent corporate salary".
Of course they didn't emphasize the contents of the income disclosure statement. I wonder if any of then had even analyzed it. The prevailing attitude was that if you worked hard, with the help of TEAM, you would do better than average MonaVie distributors.
-
So I get to work more for less money? Sounds great, where do I sign up?
-
Of course they didn't emphasize the contents of the income disclosure statement. I wonder if any of then had even analyzed it. The prevailing attitude was that if you worked hard, with the help of TEAM, you would do better than average MonaVie distributors.
Did you read the income statement?
I could make $429,259.
That's all the analysis I need.
-
So I get to work more for less money? Sounds great, where do I sign up?
But...Freedom...and calling yourself a CEO...and setting your own hours....and other intangibles that are equal to actually getting paid.
-
Did he say: "In the corporate world 5% of the people make 95% of the money. So unjust. Come to us where less than 0.5% of the people make what would be a decent corporate salary".
Of course they didn't emphasize the contents of the income disclosure statement. I wonder if any of then had even analyzed it. The prevailing attitude was that if you worked hard, with the help of TEAM, you would do better than average MonaVie distributors.
Interesting, that they are saying that the average distributor does not work hard, but the whole pitch is usually about working hard and recruiting.
-
A long, depressing read:
https://qz.com/1039331/mlms-like-avon-and-lularoe-are-sending-people-into-debt-and-psychological-crisis/
-
A long, depressing read:
https://qz.com/1039331/mlms-like-avon-and-lularoe-are-sending-people-into-debt-and-psychological-crisis/
Depressing but thorough. Thanks for sharing.
-
A long, depressing read:
https://qz.com/1039331/mlms-like-avon-and-lularoe-are-sending-people-into-debt-and-psychological-crisis/
This is really eye opening. What a business model - to sell women leggings with ugly patterns.
-
Is anyone but me reminded of the old "Weird Al" Yankovic song "Gonna Buy Me A Condo" in which the speaker talks about all the luxuries he's going to be able to afford as an Amway distributor?
-
Is anyone but me reminded of the old "Weird Al" Yankovic song "Gonna Buy Me A Condo" in which the speaker talks about all the luxuries he's going to be able to afford as an Amway distributor?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ztCrH4ZwySc
Bonus: Reggae beat, my fav!
TGS delivers yet again. This should be the theme song for the Antimustachian Wall.
-
So I get to work more for less money? Sounds great, where do I sign up?
But...Freedom...and calling yourself a CEO...and setting your own hours....and other intangibles that are equal to actually getting paid.
You mean lying to yourself about being a CEO. All these MLMs have CEOs and the #girlboss on facebook isn't it.
-
You mean lying to yourself about being a CEO. All these MLMs have CEOs and the #girlboss on facebook isn't it.
Sure there's the CEO of your supplier, but you've built your own "business", so you're the CEO of that.
-
You mean lying to yourself about being a CEO. All these MLMs have CEOs and the #girlboss on facebook isn't it.
Sure there's the CEO of your supplier, but you've built your own "business", so you're the CEO of that.
Your business that you have no personal control of because the company regulates it so tightly.
Want to set your own prices? Can't do that. Want to carry other goods? Can't do that. Want to advertise with a different color scheme? Can't do that.
-
This CEO idea is kinda funny. The owner of a Subway doesn't say that he is a CEO, he or she says that they are an owner.
-
So I get to work more for less money? Sounds great, where do I sign up?
But...Freedom...and calling yourself a CEO...and setting your own hours....and other intangibles that are equal to actually getting paid.
You mean lying to yourself about being a CEO. All these MLMs have CEOs and the #girlboss on facebook isn't it.
It's a hobby of mine to peruse Linkedin accounts and see how many people call themselves CEO or owner of their MLM or self-employed-but-has-no-income-or-clientele business.
-
So I get to work more for less money? Sounds great, where do I sign up?
But...Freedom...and calling yourself a CEO...and setting your own hours....and other intangibles that are equal to actually getting paid.
You mean lying to yourself about being a CEO. All these MLMs have CEOs and the #girlboss on facebook isn't it.
As a female executive I find this so degrading.
-
Unfortunately most of the MLMs use manipulative phrasing like that to try to manipulate people in to joining because it makes them feel good about themselves(at least at first until they start to find out they are unlikely to make any money and worse yet are far in the hole).
-
So I get to work more for less money? Sounds great, where do I sign up?
But...Freedom...and calling yourself a CEO...and setting your own hours....and other intangibles that are equal to actually getting paid.
You mean lying to yourself about being a CEO. All these MLMs have CEOs and the #girlboss on facebook isn't it.
As a female executive I find this so degrading.
My post? Or the culture of #girlboss?
If it was my post, I apologize. It wasn't meant in a way to degrade.
I am not an executive, and am currently not on a people-management track (I'm climbing the development project management ladder though), but I have more executive decision in my position (basically because I've been empowered by good leadership to make decisions) than most people in MLMs who call themselves "business owners" and "CEOs" do. MLMs strictly control their brands.
-
So I get to work more for less money? Sounds great, where do I sign up?
But...Freedom...and calling yourself a CEO...and setting your own hours....and other intangibles that are equal to actually getting paid.
You mean lying to yourself about being a CEO. All these MLMs have CEOs and the #girlboss on facebook isn't it.
As a female executive I find this so degrading.
My post? Or the culture of #girlboss?
If it was my post, I apologize. It wasn't meant in a way to degrade.
I am not an executive, and am currently not on a people-management track (I'm climbing the development project management ladder though), but I have more executive decision in my position (basically because I've been empowered by good leadership to make decisions) than most people in MLMs who call themselves "business owners" and "CEOs" do. MLMs strictly control their brands.
I took it as them talking about the culture of #girlboss and not your post. To me it seems the #girlboss from companies duping women and women being duped and not actually an owner, CEO or boss in any shape or form is quite degrading to someone who has actually achieved such things.
-
So I get to work more for less money? Sounds great, where do I sign up?
But...Freedom...and calling yourself a CEO...and setting your own hours....and other intangibles that are equal to actually getting paid.
You mean lying to yourself about being a CEO. All these MLMs have CEOs and the #girlboss on facebook isn't it.
As a female executive I find this so degrading.
My post? Or the culture of #girlboss?
If it was my post, I apologize. It wasn't meant in a way to degrade.
I am not an executive, and am currently not on a people-management track (I'm climbing the development project management ladder though), but I have more executive decision in my position (basically because I've been empowered by good leadership to make decisions) than most people in MLMs who call themselves "business owners" and "CEOs" do. MLMs strictly control their brands.
I took it as them talking about the culture of #girlboss and not your post. To me it seems the #girlboss from companies duping women and women being duped and not actually an owner, CEO or boss in any shape or form is quite degrading to someone who has actually achieved such things.
Well, there are two separate pools of people that don't overlap.
A person who actually responds to advertisement such as #girlboss or any ad that talks about "brekkie", "tummy", or other infantilizing terms *is* their target market. They're looking for someone who wants compensation and status grossly out of proportion with their actual achievement. Such people don't mind being spoken to, or about, in degrading terms because in order to feel degraded you first have to feel as though you're worth something.
Show me someone who doesn't mind being called a "girl" when her male peers are called "men", or who doesn't mind fake terms of endearment like "hon" or "babe" directed at her but not at others, and I'll show you someone who doesn't have much in terms of marketable skills or business savvy. That person is the *perfect* MLM candidate. She's not too bright, but she wants to be treated as though she is. She wants to be treated as an equal, or even a superior, without having done the actual work. In her mind, the time she's spent watching soap operas about business or fashion leaders have qualified *her* to be such a leader.
People who object to being infantilized are generally the same ones who actually have the education, drive, and initiative to run their own business or to reach a management position in someone else's business. They have a very good idea as to what their time is worth and what services they can provide others in exchange for money. Typically they have at least a few specialized skills that other people are willing and able to pay for: skills and credentials that require effort to obtain. They also wouldn't be caught dead in a MLM because they have the reading and math skills to understand why a pyramid scheme provides them with a very poor return on their invested time.
-
We've focused too much on the negatives of MLM. What about the positives? Like how it's now possible to get a lifetime supply of vitamins for nearly nothing at garage sales after someone's MLM dreams are crushed.
-
We've focused too much on the negatives of MLM. What about the positives? Like how it's now possible to get a lifetime supply of vitamins for nearly nothing at garage sales after someone's MLM dreams are crushed.
Positive for those smart enough to take advantage rather than being taken advantage of. But not something I would wish on any friend or family member.
-
So I get to work more for less money? Sounds great, where do I sign up?
But...Freedom...and calling yourself a CEO...and setting your own hours....and other intangibles that are equal to actually getting paid.
You mean lying to yourself about being a CEO. All these MLMs have CEOs and the #girlboss on facebook isn't it.
As a female executive I find this so degrading.
My post? Or the culture of #girlboss?
If it was my post, I apologize. It wasn't meant in a way to degrade.
I am not an executive, and am currently not on a people-management track (I'm climbing the development project management ladder though), but I have more executive decision in my position (basically because I've been empowered by good leadership to make decisions) than most people in MLMs who call themselves "business owners" and "CEOs" do. MLMs strictly control their brands.
No IowaJes, not your post. The culture of #girlboss.
Should I post on my FB page "hey just closed the books for July, and we're favorable to budget by $7M because volumes are up and I had the foresight to have everyone slash OT and travel! #girlboss". Or maybe my boss should do it followed by #boyboss?
It's ridiculous.
-
So I get to work more for less money? Sounds great, where do I sign up?
But...Freedom...and calling yourself a CEO...and setting your own hours....and other intangibles that are equal to actually getting paid.
You mean lying to yourself about being a CEO. All these MLMs have CEOs and the #girlboss on facebook isn't it.
As a female executive I find this so degrading.
My post? Or the culture of #girlboss?
If it was my post, I apologize. It wasn't meant in a way to degrade.
I am not an executive, and am currently not on a people-management track (I'm climbing the development project management ladder though), but I have more executive decision in my position (basically because I've been empowered by good leadership to make decisions) than most people in MLMs who call themselves "business owners" and "CEOs" do. MLMs strictly control their brands.
I took it as them talking about the culture of #girlboss and not your post. To me it seems the #girlboss from companies duping women and women being duped and not actually an owner, CEO or boss in any shape or form is quite degrading to someone who has actually achieved such things.
Well, there are two separate pools of people that don't overlap.
A person who actually responds to advertisement such as #girlboss or any ad that talks about "brekkie", "tummy", or other infantilizing terms *is* their target market. They're looking for someone who wants compensation and status grossly out of proportion with their actual achievement. Such people don't mind being spoken to, or about, in degrading terms because in order to feel degraded you first have to feel as though you're worth something.
Show me someone who doesn't mind being called a "girl" when her male peers are called "men", or who doesn't mind fake terms of endearment like "hon" or "babe" directed at her but not at others, and I'll show you someone who doesn't have much in terms of marketable skills or business savvy. That person is the *perfect* MLM candidate. She's not too bright, but she wants to be treated as though she is. She wants to be treated as an equal, or even a superior, without having done the actual work. In her mind, the time she's spent watching soap operas about business or fashion leaders have qualified *her* to be such a leader.
People who object to being infantilized are generally the same ones who actually have the education, drive, and initiative to run their own business or to reach a management position in someone else's business. They have a very good idea as to what their time is worth and what services they can provide others in exchange for money. Typically they have at least a few specialized skills that other people are willing and able to pay for: skills and credentials that require effort to obtain. They also wouldn't be caught dead in a MLM because they have the reading and math skills to understand why a pyramid scheme provides them with a very poor return on their invested time.
Yes. And not only would I never buy into a MLM, I won't buy their products or host a party. I've even stopped attending all associated parties. Unfortunately I've realized that the ladies in my neighborhood just see me as deep pockets. They know where I work and what my title is. I don't get these invites because they want to have meaningful conversations with me over a damn glass of wine after work.
-
So I get to work more for less money? Sounds great, where do I sign up?
But...Freedom...and calling yourself a CEO...and setting your own hours....and other intangibles that are equal to actually getting paid.
You mean lying to yourself about being a CEO. All these MLMs have CEOs and the #girlboss on facebook isn't it.
As a female executive I find this so degrading.
My post? Or the culture of #girlboss?
If it was my post, I apologize. It wasn't meant in a way to degrade.
I am not an executive, and am currently not on a people-management track (I'm climbing the development project management ladder though), but I have more executive decision in my position (basically because I've been empowered by good leadership to make decisions) than most people in MLMs who call themselves "business owners" and "CEOs" do. MLMs strictly control their brands.
No IowaJes, not your post. The culture of #girlboss.
Should I post on my FB page "hey just closed the books for July, and we're favorable to budget by $7M because volumes are up and I had the foresight to have everyone slash OT and travel! #girlboss". Or maybe my boss should do it followed by #boyboss?
It's ridiculous.
#Fortune500boss (or something similar) would be a good mic drop
-
I also have this hanging over my desk.
-
I also have this hanging over my desk.
THAT IS AMAZING! I've never seen it before. That makes my whole day!
-
So I get to work more for less money? Sounds great, where do I sign up?
But...Freedom...and calling yourself a CEO...and setting your own hours....and other intangibles that are equal to actually getting paid.
You mean lying to yourself about being a CEO. All these MLMs have CEOs and the #girlboss on facebook isn't it.
As a female executive I find this so degrading.
My post? Or the culture of #girlboss?
If it was my post, I apologize. It wasn't meant in a way to degrade.
I am not an executive, and am currently not on a people-management track (I'm climbing the development project management ladder though), but I have more executive decision in my position (basically because I've been empowered by good leadership to make decisions) than most people in MLMs who call themselves "business owners" and "CEOs" do. MLMs strictly control their brands.
No IowaJes, not your post. The culture of #girlboss.
Should I post on my FB page "hey just closed the books for July, and we're favorable to budget by $7M because volumes are up and I had the foresight to have everyone slash OT and travel! #girlboss". Or maybe my boss should do it followed by #boyboss?
It's ridiculous.
Oooooh
I awesomely like this post. +1000
-
There has been another sighting in the wild. Rodan and Fields has taken an acquaintance of mine. She is now flogging 'life changing' skincare and the comments keep mentioning how the products are great and the business pays the bills. She's hoping to channel her inner 'BOSS' like her friends. There is lots of noise about how 'exciting' this is.
Frankly, I don't much like this woman. She wasn't a particularly good sgt., I very much doubt she and her husband make enough to cover their lifestyle as they portray it, and she goes on and on about how important patriotism is to her too often. This might be what gets me to de-friend her. But until I make that weighty, life-altering decision, I'm going to low-key hate and watch the financial train wreck.
-
I thought about this topic recently when my cousin who's currently hawking LLR (formerly hawked Plexus) went to some LLR conference thing and posted all about it. I think everyone was wearing LLR in all the pictures. I don't get the appeal. And, it just makes me sad. She has three small children and wants to do what's best for them, but she has no education and her husband doesn't make much (don't think he is educated either, has done some menial job hopping from what I understand). I hate that MLMs prey on people like her. I hate to think what their financial picture looks like.
-
I thought about this topic recently when my cousin who's currently hawking LLR (formerly hawked Plexus) went to some LLR conference thing and posted all about it. I think everyone was wearing LLR in all the pictures. I don't get the appeal. And, it just makes me sad. She has three small children and wants to do what's best for them, but she has no education and her husband doesn't make much (don't think he is educated either, has done some menial job hopping from what I understand). I hate that MLMs prey on people like her. I hate to think what their financial picture looks like.
You'd be surprised, but some very well-educated, professional people get involved in MLMs. I don't know why. I used to think it was only people who were less educated, no skills, couldn't hold down a job. But I was wrong. It's a wide range of people from different backgrounds.
I've had a Plexus person hounding me, for over a year now, to become an Ambassador with Plexus. Meaning, she wants to recruit me so she'll earn money. Other than that, she takes no interest in me at all, as a person. We're going through job loss right now with young children at home to support, and I don't have money to get involved in this type of business.
-
I thought about this topic recently when my cousin who's currently hawking LLR (formerly hawked Plexus) went to some LLR conference thing and posted all about it. I think everyone was wearing LLR in all the pictures. I don't get the appeal. And, it just makes me sad. She has three small children and wants to do what's best for them, but she has no education and her husband doesn't make much (don't think he is educated either, has done some menial job hopping from what I understand). I hate that MLMs prey on people like her. I hate to think what their financial picture looks like.
You'd be surprised, but some very well-educated, professional people get involved in MLMs. I don't know why. I used to think it was only people who were less educated, no skills, couldn't hold down a job. But I was wrong. It's a wide range of people from different backgrounds.
I've had a Plexus person hounding me, for over a year now, to become an Ambassador with Plexus. Meaning, she wants to recruit me so she'll earn money. Other than that, she takes no interest in me at all, as a person. We're going through job loss right now with young children at home to support, and I don't have money to get involved in this type of business.
I can think of one acquaintance who falls into that category (well-educated, professional person, who used to sell Melaleuca). It would really surprise me to find others but I'm sure they're out there as you say. The one I'm thinking of is one of the more gullible people I know who will buy anything from anyone selling door to door.
My cousin who's now wrapped up in LLR used to be incredibly hard core about Plexus. She switched very abruptly to LLR. She lives in a tiny little town; I can't fathom how she's able to find enough people to buy these things. I guess that's why it is the only thing she posts about on facebook...
I've actually found my current neighborhood to be largely free of MLMs, but we have a large foreign population with a lot of engineers and tech executives, so I think that experience skews my perspective. Watch now that I've said that I'll get inundated with them...I sure hope not.
-
I thought about this topic recently when my cousin who's currently hawking LLR (formerly hawked Plexus) went to some LLR conference thing and posted all about it. I think everyone was wearing LLR in all the pictures. I don't get the appeal. And, it just makes me sad. She has three small children and wants to do what's best for them, but she has no education and her husband doesn't make much (don't think he is educated either, has done some menial job hopping from what I understand). I hate that MLMs prey on people like her. I hate to think what their financial picture looks like.
You'd be surprised, but some very well-educated, professional people get involved in MLMs. I don't know why. I used to think it was only people who were less educated, no skills, couldn't hold down a job. But I was wrong. It's a wide range of people from different backgrounds.
I've had a Plexus person hounding me, for over a year now, to become an Ambassador with Plexus. Meaning, she wants to recruit me so she'll earn money. Other than that, she takes no interest in me at all, as a person. We're going through job loss right now with young children at home to support, and I don't have money to get involved in this type of business.
I can think of one acquaintance who falls into that category (well-educated, professional person, who used to sell Melaleuca). It would really surprise me to find others but I'm sure they're out there as you say. The one I'm thinking of is one of the more gullible people I know who will buy anything from anyone selling door to door.
My cousin who's now wrapped up in LLR used to be incredibly hard core about Plexus. She switched very abruptly to LLR. She lives in a tiny little town; I can't fathom how she's able to find enough people to buy these things. I guess that's why it is the only thing she posts about on facebook...
I've actually found my current neighborhood to be largely free of MLMs, but we have a large foreign population with a lot of engineers and tech executives, so I think that experience skews my perspective. Watch now that I've said that I'll get inundated with them...I sure hope not.
I only have a basic bachelor's degree and have never worked in a highly professional career, but basic economics tells me that these are mostly saturated markets and in MLMs, you recruit your own competition, which doesn't make sense. Also, in a recession most people aren't going to buy the products being sold by MLMs such as jewelry, essential oils, kitchen gadgets, cosmetics, etc. And lastly, although they claim it's their "own business", it's not. They are under a contract and it's someone else's business, not theirs.
I've found many people will stay in an MLM for years. They'll never admit they're losing money in it. Maybe they get a new set of MLM friends in the business and don't want to leave this lifestyle. Maybe there should be an MLM recovery group for people who want to leave these businesses, while getting social support at the same time.
-
Found this on facebook. It takes aim at many awful things people post, many of which are MLM-related.
https://scontent.fapa1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/20245358_1506526459408144_6689382242845722145_n.png?oh=44e2e3e5894a34fb3a8ddad9e4382728&oe=5A266A33 (https://scontent.fapa1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/20245358_1506526459408144_6689382242845722145_n.png?oh=44e2e3e5894a34fb3a8ddad9e4382728&oe=5A266A33)
(https://scontent.fapa1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/20245358_1506526459408144_6689382242845722145_n.png?oh=44e2e3e5894a34fb3a8ddad9e4382728&oe=5A266A33)
-
I've found many people will stay in an MLM for years. They'll never admit they're losing money in it. Maybe they get a new set of MLM friends in the business and don't want to leave this lifestyle. Maybe there should be an MLM recovery group for people who want to leave these businesses, while getting social support at the same time.
Maybe folks trying to get out of MLMs should use cult recovery groups. It seems the MLM mindset isn't different from most cults.
-
I keep getting Facebook invites to a friend's Rodan + Fields (skin care products) "launch party." Apparently she's becoming one of their "consultants" and wants everyone together for a party. This is the same person who invited me to some kind of book exchange last Christmas that also felt like an MLM invite. She had the following conversation with another friend:
Other friend: What is Rodan + Fields?
R+F consultant: It's a dermatologist developed skincare line. Rodan + Fields is redefining the future of anti-aging skincare. Founded by Dr. Katie Rodan and Dr. Kathy Fields, it's a premium skincare brand built on a legacy of innovative dermatology-inspired skincare products backed by clinical results. sound suspiciously like an advertisement brochure?
Other friend: Cool. Is this a store or Is it a pyramid sales online thing?
R+F consultant: Not a store, it's sold by consultants. Set up as multi level marketing.
Are you kidding me? She understands the term "MLM," but apparently doesn't understand what it actually means if she thinks "pyramid" and "MLM" aren't the synonymous. Her up-trace even posted on her FB page that she's sad to be losing a customer, but happy to be gaining a business partner. I'll bet she is. My friend is an active duty Army officer who also sells horse riding equipment through Etsy. She's probably coming to this new gig with a larger customer base than her former supplier.
-
The worst type of MLM person is the bully recruiter. And when they finally realize it's pointless to keep trying to recruit you, they'll belt out this little gem: "that's okay, you don't have what it takes for this business anyway."
-
And Solon, that is a great quote (above).
I am in a Facebook group the other day, we were talking about how to save money on prescription drugs. Someone with an essential oils MLM told everyone "don't take drugs your doctor prescribes you; essential oils should be used instead and they will cure anything!" And then she said for anyone to PM her, as she apparently has all the answers to anyone's medical problems.
-
The worst type of MLM person is the bully recruiter. And when they finally realize it's pointless to keep trying to recruit you, they'll belt out this little gem: "that's okay, you don't have what it takes for this business anyway."
Gullibility?
-
The worst type of MLM person is the bully recruiter. And when they finally realize it's pointless to keep trying to recruit you, they'll belt out this little gem: "that's okay, you don't have what it takes for this business anyway."
Gullibility?
Yeah, that and poor financial literacy.
-
A few years ago, while I was still in college, my folks were looking for some extra streams of income to help make ends meet. Lo and behold, they heard about an MLM scheme that revolved around selling utility contracts to local small businesses. We bought it hook line and sinker.
The worst part is that they were very careful, but were sold by people who were "friends."
MLM schemes always, ALWAYS get people hooked when they are desperate. Why? Their promises are incredible. This is why not only do I discourage people from seeking them out, but I actually find them to be immoral.
Explain to me the difference between MLM programs and predatory lending? People who are in a pinch are offered "a way to make life better," and instead of finding their way out, they find themselves out a few hundred bucks, and in a deeper hole than they were in the first place.
Your BS meter should go up around them.
-
The worst type of MLM person is the bully recruiter. And when they finally realize it's pointless to keep trying to recruit you, they'll belt out this little gem: "that's okay, you don't have what it takes for this business anyway."
I got a call out of the blue from someone I worked with over 10 years ago. I assumed he wanted to catch up or was calling to network with me. I was shocked to find out that he was calling to try and recruit me to work for the MLM Advocare! I politely told him I am happy with my current role and am not looking for a career change.
Now I notice all his posts on Facebook about how they have to have the courage to stand up to criticism of what they do. Other posts seem to center around buying things and winning Advocare trips, rather than saving for their futures.
-
Another Facebook friend (completely unrelated to the last one I discussed) just posted that she's now doing Rodan + Fields and is so excited thanking her up-trace who "gave me the confidence and courage to start MY own business." Preaching to the choir and beating that dead horse thoroughly, but I still can't stop laughing at the concept of someone else providing you product to sell for them constituting "your own business." Apparently it is their custom to refer to the next link in their chain as a "business partner." My first friend's up-trace called her that, and here the new person is calling her up-trace a partner.
-
Show me someone who doesn't mind being called a "girl" when her male peers are called "men", or who doesn't mind fake terms of endearment like "hon" or "babe" directed at her but not at others...
An Australian female magistrate called out this behaviour in court recently.
Swear in front of me, but don't call me 'darl'
http://www.smh.com.au/lifestyle/news-and-views/opinion/swear-in-front-of-me-but-dont-call-me-darl-a-lesson-in-respect-20170711-gx97rr.html
-
The worst type of MLM person is the bully recruiter. And when they finally realize it's pointless to keep trying to recruit you, they'll belt out this little gem: "that's okay, you don't have what it takes for this business anyway."
Gullibility?
Yeah, that and poor financial literacy.
I call that pre-emptive shaming of a future victim.
-
I just offered the SAHM across the street $15 an hour to watch my kids after school. She said she wasn't interested in making that kind of time commitment. Which I understand. (maybe she hates my kids). But yet she is trying to sell Avon (thought they were bankrupt) on FB, and having yard sales for $$.
-
My secretary here at work seems to attend an inordinate number of these MLM parties, and almost always buys something "to help her friend out." She's smart enough to resist the siren's song of recruitment, but she has a tendency to rationalize her purchases by saying "it's actually a good product, and I use it all the time." I think she knows the stuff is shit, but she's got to justify the spend.
-
The worst type of MLM person is the bully recruiter. And when they finally realize it's pointless to keep trying to recruit you, they'll belt out this little gem: "that's okay, you don't have what it takes for this business anyway."
Gullibility?
Yeah, that and poor financial literacy.
I call that pre-emptive shaming of a future victim.
I am not trying to shame anyone. One symptom of poor financial literacy is when someone can't understand what it will cost to start up a business and run it, and don't research the business first, even though they have internet access. Twenty years ago, I can understand why so many people got hooked into MLMs. But it makes little sense nowadays, with all the information that is readily available online; this includes reviews of the businesses, informative websites like Pink truth (which exposes the Mary Kay business) and even documentaries you can watch on youtube about these businesses.
-
The worst type of MLM person is the bully recruiter. And when they finally realize it's pointless to keep trying to recruit you, they'll belt out this little gem: "that's okay, you don't have what it takes for this business anyway."
Gullibility?
Yeah, that and poor financial literacy.
I call that pre-emptive shaming of a future victim.
I am not trying to shame anyone. One symptom of poor financial literacy is when someone can't understand what it will cost to start up a business and run it, and don't research the business first, even though they have internet access. Twenty years ago, I can understand why so many people got hooked into MLMs. But it makes little sense nowadays, with all the information that is readily available online; this includes reviews of the businesses, informative websites like Pink truth (which exposes the Mary Kay business) and even documentaries you can watch on youtube about these businesses.
One of the reasons I think that MLMs are a tool of Satan is that they are designed to prey on uneducated desperate poor people. When companies purposefully set out to exploit the most vulnerable, that is simply evil.
-
I just offered the SAHM across the street $15 an hour to watch my kids after school. She said she wasn't interested in making that kind of time commitment. Which I understand. (maybe she hates my kids). But yet she is trying to sell Avon (thought they were bankrupt) on FB, and having yard sales for $$.
I may be wrong, but I don't think Avon is an MLM business. I think it's direct sales.
-
I just offered the SAHM across the street $15 an hour to watch my kids after school. She said she wasn't interested in making that kind of time commitment. Which I understand. (maybe she hates my kids). But yet she is trying to sell Avon (thought they were bankrupt) on FB, and having yard sales for $$.
I may be wrong, but I don't think Avon is an MLM business. I think it's direct sales.
And it's not a pyramid either.
(http://bvusolutions.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/5.jpg)
-
Avon is indeed multi-level marketing.
You earn bonuses for recruiting people below you. Once you have a certain number of people in your downline you earn a commission on their orders. MLMs are all direct sales- that is what makes them not illegal pyramid schemes; a product to sell. In theory, you can sell the product and make money. You just make more if you get other people to sell the product too.
Also, I am completely baffled by the MLM diagram that shows an upside down pyramid. MLM has very little room at the top and a wide base of underpaid minions.
-
Also, I am completely baffled by the MLM diagram that shows an upside down pyramid. MLM has very little room at the top and a wide base of underpaid minions.
I think (hope) it's a joke since it's exactly the same thing drawn upside down.
-
I just offered the SAHM across the street $15 an hour to watch my kids after school. She said she wasn't interested in making that kind of time commitment. Which I understand. (maybe she hates my kids). But yet she is trying to sell Avon (thought they were bankrupt) on FB, and having yard sales for $$.
I may be wrong, but I don't think Avon is an MLM business. I think it's direct sales.
And it's not a pyramid either.
(http://bvusolutions.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/5.jpg)
I don't know where this came from, but it's bullshit. The flow of money in a MLM is most certainly from bottom to top. But that's it.
I don't even understand the pyramid on the left.
-
Also, I am completely baffled by the MLM diagram that shows an upside down pyramid. MLM has very little room at the top and a wide base of underpaid minions.
I think (hope) it's a joke since it's exactly the same thing drawn upside down.
Ah ha! The sarcasm font wasn't working. Yes, funny.
-
Avon is indeed multi-level marketing.
You earn bonuses for recruiting people below you. Once you have a certain number of people in your downline you earn a commission on their orders. MLMs are all direct sales- that is what makes them not illegal pyramid schemes; a product to sell. In theory, you can sell the product and make money. You just make more if you get other people to sell the product too.
It makes sense that you should make more if you recruit people below you. The problem with most MLMs is that there is not really any money to be made at the bottom level. Usually you have to build and maintain a couple of levels below you to get any kind of reasonable compensation.
Most MLM presentations lead with their product, but quickly shift to the business opportunity of selling the product. Often they'll talk about building residual income from sales commissions. However, when you start reading the fine print of the compensation plan, you quickly see that most of the money is distributed at the higher levels and largely comes in the form of recruitment bonuses.
In my experience consultants from AVON, Pampered Chef, and Stampin' Up focused their efforts on selling product. They seem to want sales and referrals to more customers (party bookings) much more than they want to recruit a downline. I imagine that their compensation plans are mostly direct sales commission with modest recruitment bonuses and/or downline sales commissions.
-
Avon is indeed multi-level marketing.
You earn bonuses for recruiting people below you. Once you have a certain number of people in your downline you earn a commission on their orders. MLMs are all direct sales- that is what makes them not illegal pyramid schemes; a product to sell. In theory, you can sell the product and make money. You just make more if you get other people to sell the product too.
It makes sense that you should make more if you recruit people below you. The problem with most MLMs is that there is not really any money to be made at the bottom level. Usually you have to build and maintain a couple of levels below you to get any kind of reasonable compensation.
Most MLM presentations lead with their product, but quickly shift to the business opportunity of selling the product. Often they'll talk about building residual income from sales commissions. However, when you start reading the fine print of the compensation plan, you quickly see that most of the money is distributed at the higher levels and largely comes in the form of recruitment bonuses.
In my experience consultants from AVON, Pampered Chef, and Stampin' Up focused their efforts on selling product. They seem to want sales and referrals to more customers (party bookings) much more than they want to recruit a downline. I imagine that their compensation plans are mostly direct sales commission with modest recruitment bonuses and/or downline sales commissions.
My experience with Pampered Chef and Stampin' Up is the opposite. They want to sign people up. They are no different from Mary Kay, Lularoe, Usborne Books, Jamberry, Younique, I could go on. The people who make big money in PC and SU are the ones with large downlines. You don't make great money on justy your product sales. SU you get money on your downline overrides, so you WANT recruits. However, you only get a downline commission check if your own sales are at a certain level, so you need to book parties too!
(Fun Fact: I was a hobby consultant for "The Angel Company" which is a now defunct MLM for stamps. I never once sold a single thing, and never intended to. But one quarter I was star recruiter because I had 12 recruits. Didn't get a cent from it though because I had no sales. But they had no required minimums and the kit was a great value, so lots of people signed up just for themselves. Might be why they went out of business...)
My experience with AVON is mostly people giving me catalogs. So I can't comment there, but they are a MLM based on their payment structure.
-
Also, I am completely baffled by the MLM diagram that shows an upside down pyramid. MLM has very little room at the top and a wide base of underpaid minions.
I think (hope) it's a joke since it's exactly the same thing drawn upside down.
Yes, I meant it at sarcasm. The website I pulled it from did not. :/
-
But it's not a "pyramid" it's a "reverse funnel".
-
The universe is telling me to post this:
Link to page with video : http://economicsoftheoffice.com/all/?id=21 (http://economicsoftheoffice.com/all/?id=21)
(http://economicsoftheoffice.com/static/uploads/21.png)
-
I have a good friend who sells Norwex and it actually really good at it and does not allow it to effect friendships. I also really like most Norwex products and feel the quality is quite high. However, the prices are way too much and the shipping on top is the last straw. So I've bought probably $100-$150 of Norwex from her over last couple of years because she has introduced me to some great cleaning tools, but I also buy competitors products for a fraction of the price off of Amazon (there is no way I'm spending over $100 on a mop).
I usually like the products of these types of companies, at least Norwex and Pampered Chef, but I resent how they take advantage of social norms in order to get people to pay way more than they ever would in a store. Now excuse me while I go and hide my ecloth mop before she has a chance to see it . . .
-
I have a good friend who sells Norwex and it actually really good at it and does not allow it to effect friendships. I also really like most Norwex products and feel the quality is quite high. However, the prices are way too much and the shipping on top is the last straw. So I've bought probably $100-$150 of Norwex from her over last couple of years because she has introduced me to some great cleaning tools, but I also buy competitors products for a fraction of the price off of Amazon (there is no way I'm spending over $100 on a mop).
I usually like the products of these types of companies, at least Norwex and Pampered Chef, but I resent how they take advantage of social norms in order to get people to pay way more than they ever would in a store. Now excuse me while I go and hide my ecloth mop before she has a chance to see it . . .
I accidentally went to a Norwex "party" with my wife some years ago in my pre-Mustachian days. I say accidentally because I just showed up for the free food and had no idea that someone was attempting to sell us something.
Anyhow, me being the normal skeptic (and somewhat of a cheapskate) that I am couldn't believe the absurd prices, so I proceeded to whip out my smartphone and did a little bit of on the spot research. I quickly found e-cloth stuff and pointed this out to my wife. We had a side conversation while the sales spiel was going on and decided not to buy anything. That was my first and last MLM "party" experience.
-
If you need ammunition to get someone to stop participating in MLM, show them this hysterical John Oliver video:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=s6MwGeOm8iI
One powerful message: if you were to recruit 5 people into an MLM scheme and they each recruit 5, and so on....after 14 cycles you would exceed the population on earth and we would need to start reproducing!
Awesome job by John Oliver. Is going to see the movie Betting on Zero to support the film maker
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/apr/11/herbalife-documentary-betting-on-zero
Just watched Betting on Zero on Amazon. Great movie about the research Bill Ackman did on Herbal Life before shoring the stock. I now have Herbal Life added to the list of stocks I track.
-
I've read about Lularoe, and how crazy people get about it. It's just recently hit our area, but I don't know anyone who sells it. There is a lady I know who's sold some sort of MLM product as long as I can remember, so I wouldn't be surprised if she, or one of her daughters, is one of them. Somehow I got down the rabbit hole of reading about it, and it's pretty insane. Then I looked at gofundme and there are a ton of women there trying to raise money for "their own business", because they can't afford the start up package. On another board, I've read of certain people making a ton of money with it, but they got in early, when there were limited sellers. Now many of them are getting out.
It's a little interesting to read about. Apparently, if you wanted to get out before, you were stuck with your inventory. So, many people started "going out of business" sales to get rid of tons of leftovers (most of the stuff is seriously ugly) that many fans of the clothing are no longer paying full price (which is crazy high for what it is). Now current sellers are complaining because they can't compete, and it's leading to sellers reporting other sellers, etc, so it's really like people trying to escape a cult--all the formerly supporting people have turned against you. On top of everything, they had some major quality issues and, because of the way the structure was set up, it was usually impossible to get something replaced in the same style/print that you wanted.
The company started to offer sellers, who wanted to get out, refunds of their inventory if they returned it. The problem was, the company would not refund money on anything they deemed "defective", and would also not return the "defective" items. So, people are now out the money and the items they paid for. One lady on another board said she figures she was shorted "a few hundred dollars", but she made a profit overall, so she's not complaining. But, wow.
I have to admit, I did buy a pair of leggings from a "going out of business" sale, below wholesale, and while they are soft, I wouldn't wear them in public. They are good for lounging around the house or wearing as long underwear (I wore them under a pair of jeans for a long, chilly bus ride recently), however, I could not see paying full price ($25). There are some women who will buy dozens at a time though!
I saw this link recently, and it has a little about how they get people, and how far some will go to try to make an MLM work. It's scary.
https://qz.com/1039331/mlms-like-avon-and-lularoe-are-sending-people-into-debt-and-psychological-crisis/
One of my SILs will "host" online parties every now and then for different things, and I think she had been selling one of the weightloss programs for a while (I saw her comment on someone's post that she had lost 20 pounds, and if the person wanted to know how, she should PM her.) I just ignore the invites, when I've looked, things are just so overpriced it's ridiculous.
-
It's just recently hit our area, but I don't know anyone who sells it. There is a lady I know who's sold some sort of MLM product as long as I can remember, so I wouldn't be surprised if she, or one of her daughters, is one of them. Somehow I got down the rabbit hole of reading about it, and it's pretty insane. Then I looked at gofundme and there are a ton of women there trying to raise money for "their own business", because they can't afford the start up package.
How sad. These businesses use the hook phrase "empowering women" and these women think they're starting their own business, when they're not. It's actually someone else's business (whoever the CEO is0 and they will be a customer, not a business person. A customer who buys lots of inventory.
The lularoe startup kit is 5 to 6,000 dollars. Just to start. And the leggings will be out of style very soon, if they're not now.
-
<Snip> And the leggings will be out of style very soon, if they're not now. <Snip>
One can only hope.
-
A Facebook acquaintance was super gung ho about Rodan and Fields. Posting all the time, I only need 5 more sales to get my bonus, all the typical MLM stuff. Then she disappeared for a while and now she is back. Cannabis oil cured my depression and it can cure yours too! This is the best product on the market. Don't take that medicine your doctor prescribed, he just wants to make money. Ugh. It's driving me crazy.
-
A Facebook acquaintance was super gung ho about Rodan and Fields. Posting all the time, I only need 5 more sales to get my bonus, all the typical MLM stuff. Then she disappeared for a while and now she is back. Cannabis oil cured my depression and it can cure yours too! This is the best product on the market. Don't take that medicine your doctor prescribed, he just wants to make money. Ugh. It's driving me crazy.
My relative who pushes magical MLM vitamins tries the "your doctor just wants to make money" line sometimes (which is wrong, and offensive, for many reasons) and it's hard not to snap "Your chiropractor just wants to make money -- that's how you ended up in his downline."
-
A Facebook acquaintance was super gung ho about Rodan and Fields. Posting all the time, I only need 5 more sales to get my bonus, all the typical MLM stuff. Then she disappeared for a while and now she is back. Cannabis oil cured my depression and it can cure yours too! This is the best product on the market. Don't take that medicine your doctor prescribed, he just wants to make money. Ugh. It's driving me crazy.
My relative who pushes magical MLM vitamins tries the "your doctor just wants to make money" line sometimes (which is wrong, and offensive, for many reasons) and it's hard not to snap "Your chiropractor just wants to make money -- that's how you ended up in his downline."
Every time I see this I want to ask "Are you giving away this magical pill/food/drink for free? No, then I guess you're all about the money too." I had to completely delete an old acquaintance from FB because after a while 9 out of 10 posts were either her posing at the gym or sharing the latest from Natural News. She didn't have anything original to say about her own life or even the NN stuff she advertised - just straight copy/paste. The straw that broke that back was some special apple sauce ad she posted that claimed to cure everything but cancer. The ad showed the jar with 13 different cures next to it. I want to find the lab rat who designed that apple sauce and see if he has received his Nobel yet.
-
A Facebook acquaintance was super gung ho about Rodan and Fields. Posting all the time, I only need 5 more sales to get my bonus, all the typical MLM stuff. Then she disappeared for a while and now she is back. Cannabis oil cured my depression and it can cure yours too! This is the best product on the market. Don't take that medicine your doctor prescribed, he just wants to make money. Ugh. It's driving me crazy.
My relative who pushes magical MLM vitamins tries the "your doctor just wants to make money" line sometimes (which is wrong, and offensive, for many reasons) and it's hard not to snap "Your chiropractor just wants to make money -- that's how you ended up in his downline."
Every time I see this I want to ask "Are you giving away this magical pill/food/drink for free? No, then I guess you're all about the money too." I had to completely delete an old acquaintance from FB because after a while 9 out of 10 posts were either her posing at the gym or sharing the latest from Natural News. She didn't have anything original to say about her own life or even the NN stuff she advertised - just straight copy/paste. The straw that broke that back was some special apple sauce ad she posted that claimed to cure everything but cancer. The ad showed the jar with 13 different cures next to it. I want to find the lab rat who designed that apple sauce and see if he has received his Nobel yet.
The silence was deafening once when I replied "The prescriptions that keep me out of the hospital are $10 for a 90-day supply. What do your products cost?" A more shameless seller might've suddenly switched gears in response and said you can't put a price on good health (as long as they're getting a cut of the profits).
Some of the quacky anti-medicine/anti-science memes they share are infuriatingly dangerous. An aunt whose husband owes his life to conventional cancer treatments reposts all the same anti-chemo BS her MLM pals like. I hope she's just doing it to fit in and not because she genuinely believes bananas and positive thinking are all you need to beat a serious illness.
-
UGH - I HATE MLM's. At least 7 many friends have reached out to me "out of the blue" wanting to get together and "catch up" - I used to be excited to see old friends.
Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me, lol. After a few dissappointing get togethers, I now sadly have to ask people what they want to catch up about before agreeing to get together.
After choosing not to buy whatever they were trying to sell, I never heard from any of the "friends" again.
-
A friend from high school recently contacted me out of the blue. She is a Rodan + Fields person. I said no to being interested but she still sent me the telephone number to call to listen to a pitch.
Anyway, she just quit her full time teaching job. As far as I can tell, she hasn't picked something else up, so I guess she's selling Rodan + Fields full time? I wonder what will happen when people stop their initial "okay you're my friend I'll buy something" orders?
-
In simple terms, who has the time? I don't enjoy shopping -- period -- and try to spend as little time as possible doing it. So, I'm not going to sit in a room for three hours and do it. I always have "other commitments," even if that commitment is to dinner with my husband or working out.
-
A Facebook acquaintance was super gung ho about Rodan and Fields. Posting all the time, I only need 5 more sales to get my bonus, all the typical MLM stuff. Then she disappeared for a while and now she is back. Cannabis oil cured my depression and it can cure yours too! This is the best product on the market. Don't take that medicine your doctor prescribed, he just wants to make money. Ugh. It's driving me crazy.
My relative who pushes magical MLM vitamins tries the "your doctor just wants to make money" line sometimes (which is wrong, and offensive, for many reasons) and it's hard not to snap "Your chiropractor just wants to make money -- that's how you ended up in his downline."
What's scary is some of them giving out medical advice when they shouldn't be. The essential oils MLM people tell their customers it's okay to ingest the oils. IT IS NOT. It can be very dangerous. Some of the oils can interact in bad ways with medications that people take. Some of the oils, if ingested, can cause miscarriage in pregnant women. I wish the FDA would crack down on these essential oil companies (Young Living, etc) and put them out of business altogether.
-
A friend from high school recently contacted me out of the blue. She is a Rodan + Fields person. I said no to being interested but she still sent me the telephone number to call to listen to a pitch.
Anyway, she just quit her full time teaching job. As far as I can tell, she hasn't picked something else up, so I guess she's selling Rodan + Fields full time? I wonder what will happen when people stop their initial "okay you're my friend I'll buy something" orders?
That's the problem. Once you have your first MLM party, and you've sold to all your friends and family members, you're left with cold calling or door knocking to get more business.
So they start recruiting instead and annoying their friends and family even more. If they encounter negativity, they say "I am going to be a successful business person and you're just jealous". Or "you are trying to ruin my dream".
-
A Facebook acquaintance was super gung ho about Rodan and Fields. Posting all the time, I only need 5 more sales to get my bonus, all the typical MLM stuff. Then she disappeared for a while and now she is back. Cannabis oil cured my depression and it can cure yours too! This is the best product on the market. Don't take that medicine your doctor prescribed, he just wants to make money. Ugh. It's driving me crazy.
My relative who pushes magical MLM vitamins tries the "your doctor just wants to make money" line sometimes (which is wrong, and offensive, for many reasons) and it's hard not to snap "Your chiropractor just wants to make money -- that's how you ended up in his downline."
What's scary is some of them giving out medical advice when they shouldn't be. The essential oils MLM people tell their customers it's okay to ingest the oils. IT IS NOT. It can be very dangerous. Some of the oils can interact in bad ways with medications that people take. Some of the oils, if ingested, can cause miscarriage in pregnant women. I wish the FDA would crack down on these essential oil companies (Young Living, etc) and put them out of business altogether.
Before essential oils got trendy, I used to teach a perfumery class at a local shop and teach people how to make their own fragrances, candles, soap, bath salts, and other scented items.
The first 10 minutes were all about safety. Essential oils are highly flammable, many of them are absorbed through the skin in ways that cause permanent sensitivity to light, many are known carcinogens, and several are toxic. The ones that can induce miscarriage, for example, have very little gap between the effective dose and the toxic dose when ingested as an oil. The original herbal treatment relied on a tincture or decoction made from the original plant, the results of which are far less concentrated than an essential oil which is obtained through different processes.
You can't talk to an average group of people about relative concentrations of active chemicals in a solution, because they just don't understand the math or the science.
The other thing I did was to correct some of the "aromatherapy" bunkum. There have been a few controlled scientific studies that show human beings do respond to low levels of fragrance with physiological changes such as sexual arousal, but the fragrances touted as being aphrodisiacs did not produce the responses. For the most part it's a matter of psychological or even cultural association: good old classical and operant conditioning. There's nothing wrong with it, but people need to understand what they're doing with various fragrances, and why. They also need to know that some of the chemicals they're using have side effects. I don't approve of lavender or other plant estrogens being put into body care products used by men and adolescent boys, for example: there have been too many cases of gynecomastia caused by heavily fragranced commercially available soap products. So I'd identify the known carcinogens, estrogens, and photosensitizers and point them out so that people don't ingest them or put them on their skin.
Some of the local aromatherapists and alternative "healers" used to take my classes, scribbling notes wildly. I liked to think I helped make them marginally less dangerous to their customers. But most of them were shockingly ignorant about some very basic things.
-
A Facebook acquaintance was super gung ho about Rodan and Fields. Posting all the time, I only need 5 more sales to get my bonus, all the typical MLM stuff. Then she disappeared for a while and now she is back. Cannabis oil cured my depression and it can cure yours too! This is the best product on the market. Don't take that medicine your doctor prescribed, he just wants to make money. Ugh. It's driving me crazy.
My relative who pushes magical MLM vitamins tries the "your doctor just wants to make money" line sometimes (which is wrong, and offensive, for many reasons) and it's hard not to snap "Your chiropractor just wants to make money -- that's how you ended up in his downline."
What's scary is some of them giving out medical advice when they shouldn't be. The essential oils MLM people tell their customers it's okay to ingest the oils. IT IS NOT. It can be very dangerous. Some of the oils can interact in bad ways with medications that people take. Some of the oils, if ingested, can cause miscarriage in pregnant women. I wish the FDA would crack down on these essential oil companies (Young Living, etc) and put them out of business altogether.
There are a couple Senators (Utah, Iowa, one of the ones with a short name) who block any attempts to regulate the supplement/quackery industry every year. Federal departments like the FDA and USDA are grossly underfunded for the size of their mandate. I haven't seen it for myself, but from what I've heard they pretty much leave it to the heavily biased Congressional subcommittees to tell them what their budget and priorities are each year.
-
The first 10 minutes were all about safety. Essential oils are highly flammable, many of them are absorbed through the skin in ways that cause permanent sensitivity to light, many are known carcinogens, and several are toxic. The ones that can induce miscarriage, for example, have very little gap between the effective dose and the toxic dose when ingested as an oil.
That's scary. I don't think I want to buy them at all now.
I remember when potpourri candles were popular. They had little bits of wood chips and things in the wax to look "pretty". However, this makes the more flammable. Those suckers caught fire and almost burned down my bathroom.
-
The first 10 minutes were all about safety. Essential oils are highly flammable, many of them are absorbed through the skin in ways that cause permanent sensitivity to light, many are known carcinogens, and several are toxic. The ones that can induce miscarriage, for example, have very little gap between the effective dose and the toxic dose when ingested as an oil.
That's scary. I don't think I want to buy them at all now.
I remember when potpourri candles were popular. They had little bits of wood chips and things in the wax to look "pretty". However, this makes the more flammable. Those suckers caught fire and almost burned down my bathroom.
It's OK to buy them, just don't think you're getting medicine, and don't chug it. If your goal is to make your bathroom smell pretty, feel free to put it in a diffuser but you're getting expensive Glade.
Medicinal uses that are validated by actual scientific research include:
* Eugenol (active ingredient in oil of cloves) is an effective topical dental anaesthetic but it doesn't work on everyone
* Lavender is an effective antiseptic, skin antifungal, and burn remedy but also a plant based estrogen.
* Tea tree oil is an effective skin cleanser to reduce acne, but it smells disgusting and there are better ones out there in my opinion.
Those are the only ones that come to mind. There might be others but I haven't kept up with them. It's not a long list and most of what essential oils are marketed for is pure quackery.
Some of the wood oils have good antifungal properties and are useful as an insecticide but are also carcinogens so drinking them is bad. The "pure" essential oils make lousy fragrance additions for candles and soap but are best for perfume. Oils with a synthetic carrier are preferred if you're going to make anything out of them especially combustible things.
-
It's OK to buy them, just don't think you're getting medicine, and don't chug it. If your goal is to make your bathroom smell pretty, feel free to put it in a diffuser but you're getting expensive Glade.
Medicinal uses that are validated by actual scientific research include:
* Eugenol (active ingredient in oil of cloves) is an effective topical dental anaesthetic but it doesn't work on everyone
* Lavender is an effective antiseptic, skin antifungal, and burn remedy but also a plant based estrogen.
* Tea tree oil is an effective skin cleanser to reduce acne, but it smells disgusting and there are better ones out there in my opinion.
Those are the only ones that come to mind. There might be others but I haven't kept up with them. It's not a long list and most of what essential oils are marketed for is pure quackery.
The people pushing them only know what their company literature promotes about these oils. They have no medical background. I'm pretty sure oil of grapefruit might be carcinogenic in someone taking estrogen hormone therapy, because just grapefruit juice can raise estrogen levels and the highly concentrated oil could probably make it even worse. It scares me these MLMs are telling people to ingest the oils. "It's natural" is what they say, which is ignorant. Lots of things are natural, but are dangerous nonetheless.
-
"It's natural". Just like arsenic and heroin. Tobacco and alcohol. Lead. Asbestos.
-
"It's natural". Just like arsenic and heroin. Tobacco and alcohol. Lead. Asbestos.
Carrots.
-
"It's natural". Just like arsenic and heroin. Tobacco and alcohol. Lead. Asbestos.
Carrots.
Not so loud. That's the only vegetable my son will eat.
-
"It's natural". Just like arsenic and heroin. Tobacco and alcohol. Lead. Asbestos.
I get the same vibe when people talk about "This ointment/oil/product kills cancer cells!" Two things: 1) it probably happened in a single lab experiment that a media source caught wind of and 2) that doesn't mean it's fit for human consumption. I see the cancer claim often countered by a stick figure holding a gun to a petri dish.
-
"It's natural". Just like arsenic and heroin. Tobacco and alcohol. Lead. Asbestos.
I get the same vibe when people talk about "This ointment/oil/product kills cancer cells!" Two things: 1) it probably happened in a single lab experiment that a media source caught wind of and 2) that doesn't mean it's fit for human consumption. I see the cancer claim often countered by a stick figure holding a gun to a petri dish.
It's horrible for them to say that to someone that really does have a serious disease. They don't know that some product will kill any type of disease and are giving the person false hope. Or if the person tries it as a "cure" and it doesn't work, they will just feel worse.
One of those essential oil freaks stated on facebook that rubbing cedarwood oil into a bald head will make hair grow back. It doesn't work. My husband tried it. It just made his head smell like cedarwood oil.
-
The chick who got into Rodan and Fields recently invited me to a party after years of no communication. I declined.
The language and tone of her commercial posts is really weird. It's all about her 'Rodan and Fields journey that begins now!' as if this is some heavy philosophical thing she's exploring. There was an online party that was announced with the following spiel:
"Friends!!! If you've been wondering why I joined Rodan +Fields and why this is such an amazing opportunity, I'd like to invite you to this amazing event! You'll hear the LIVE stories of 10 people and you WILL be inspired. You will hear stories from people like me who literally JUST joined and from those who have been in this life changing business for YEARS. I'm honored and humbled because they asked ME to speak! ME!!!! Crazy right?!
Come! Listen! Be inspired! Learn! See my face! Comment below or PM if you'd like a special invite."
She's also started attaching sales crap to her pictures about kids. "Here's my kid! Also lashboost is back in stock!"
-
"It's natural". Just like arsenic and heroin. Tobacco and alcohol. Lead. Asbestos.
I get the same vibe when people talk about "This ointment/oil/product kills cancer cells!" Two things: 1) it probably happened in a single lab experiment that a media source caught wind of and 2) that doesn't mean it's fit for human consumption. I see the cancer claim often countered by a stick figure holding a gun to a petri dish.
It's horrible for them to say that to someone that really does have a serious disease. They don't know that some product will kill any type of disease and are giving the person false hope. Or if the person tries it as a "cure" and it doesn't work, they will just feel worse.
One of those essential oil freaks stated on facebook that rubbing cedarwood oil into a bald head will make hair grow back. It doesn't work. My husband tried it. It just made his head smell like cedarwood oil.
It'll make a melanoma grow. All the wood oils are mild carcinogens. That includes pine, spruce, and cedar, and juniper.
-
Let's not forget that the current Secretary of Education made her fortune from the (Sc)Amway empire -- among other faults.
-
Let's not forget that the current Secretary of Education made inherited/married into her fortune from the (Sc)Amway empire -- among other faults.
FTFY. Not to forget her father founded a manufacturing business which was sold in 1996 for $1.35B (not sure how much he owned or how much she received from the sale).
-
Let's not forget that the current Secretary of Education made her fortune from the (Sc)Amway empire -- among other faults.
Yes, and that's one of the many reasons I don't like that particular person of which you speak.
-
Her brother started Blackwater, looks like being unethical runs in the family. She herself spent a decade and millions of dollars advocating for charter schools in Michigan, which are no better than the public schools. She's still in favor of them; doesn't want facts to get in the way.
-
"Sign up under me for my cannabis oil mlm and I will give you a free mascara for women or a shirt for men. Such a great deal, don't wait or I might run out."
Really? What does mascara have to do with pot? Or is this just the stock you have left over from the R&F crap you gave up on?
-
UGH - I HATE MLM's. At least 7 many friends have reached out to me "out of the blue" wanting to get together and "catch up" - I used to be excited to see old friends.
If part of us spending time together involves you making money off it, that's not freindship that's an escort service.
-
More lularoe news: http://www.mommygyver.com/single-post/2017/08/27/Original-Theft Stealing a design off Spoonflower (a fabric website), changing the colors, but leaving the original designer's watermark.
In better news, I discovered Tupperware has recipes on their website. There are a few I want to try...
-
"Friends!!! If you've been wondering why I joined Rodan +Fields Scientology and why this is such an amazing opportunity, I'd like to invite you to this amazing event! You'll hear the LIVE stories of 10 people and you WILL be inspired. You will hear stories from people like me who literally JUST joined and from those who have been in this life changing business Religion for YEARS. I'm honored and humbled because they asked ME to speak! ME!!!! Crazy right?!
Come! Listen! Be inspired! Learn! See my face! Comment below or PM if you'd like a special invite."
All I did was change two words.
-
More lularoe news: http://www.mommygyver.com/single-post/2017/08/27/Original-Theft Stealing a design off Spoonflower (a fabric website), changing the colors, but leaving the original designer's watermark.
In better news, I discovered Tupperware has recipes on their website. There are a few I want to try...
So what happens with the inventory already purchased by the Lularoe providers? Will the parent company replace it, refund them, or give them the shaft?
-
Someone recently in a facebook discussion group insisted that MLMs are smart because "that's how Warren Buffett got rich".
-
Someone recently in a facebook discussion group insisted that MLMs are smart because "that's how Warren Buffett got rich".
I guess Buffet/Berkshire owns Pampered Chef. But I think it is a pretty safe bet that PC is not the primary driver of Berkshire growth.
I see that PC websites really like to tout Buffet's name to try to get new consultants. But this is what we've always known, MLM really is a great way to get rich .... but only if you own the whole dang company.
-
"Friends!!! If you've been wondering why I joined Rodan +Fields Scientology and why this is such an amazing opportunity, I'd like to invite you to this amazing event! You'll hear the LIVE stories of 10 people and you WILL be inspired. You will hear stories from people like me who literally JUST joined and from those who have been in this life changing business Religion for YEARS. I'm honored and humbled because they asked ME to speak! ME!!!! Crazy right?!
Come! Listen! Be inspired! Learn! See my face! Comment below or PM if you'd like a special invite."
All I did was change two words.
That gave me chills.
She's still mixing promotions with pictures of her kids.
Today, I'm incredibly blessed to be able to stay home with my children. I'm here for all of the big "firsts" and for all of the perfect moments in between. My face is the one my children see when they wake up. Rodan + Fields has already been life changing for me and I'm only in my first month of business, though I've been using the products for 10 months. So today, I'd like to bless YOU with a gift if you place an order today: a FREE Redefine Eye Cream ($62 value).
If you take advantage of one our amazing bundle deals happening right now, this is a savings of OVER $150! Message me to cash in on this deal! You can always just comment how adorable my sweet (baby's name) is sleeping too.
-
Someone recently in a facebook discussion group insisted that MLMs are smart because "that's how Warren Buffett got rich".
I guess Buffet/Berkshire owns Pampered Chef. But I think it is a pretty safe bet that PC is not the primary driver of Berkshire growth.
I see that PC websites really like to tout Buffet's name to try to get new consultants. But this is what we've always known, MLM really is a great way to get rich .... but only if you own the whole dang company.
They acquired Pampered Chef in 2002 (http://www.berkshirehathaway.com/news/sep2302.html). Buffett has been investing since the 1950s, and has been a billionaire since the 1990s. So Pampered Chef has nothing to do with his accumulation of wealth.
-
Today, I'm incredibly blessed to be able to stay home with my children. I'm here for all of the big "firsts" and for all of the perfect moments in between. My face is the one my children see when they wake up. Rodan + Fields has already been life changing for me and I'm only in my first month of business, though I've been using the products for 10 months. So today, I'd like to bless YOU with a gift if you place an order today: a FREE Redefine Eye Cream ($62 value).
If you take advantage of one our amazing bundle deals happening right now, this is a savings of OVER $150! Message me to cash in on this deal! You can always just comment how adorable my sweet (baby's name) is sleeping too.
I can imagine this appeals to people who think they're being financially smart. Saving $150! wow! And just what they need, redefining eye cream.
-
Today, I'm incredibly blessed to be able to stay home with my children. I'm here for all of the big "firsts" and for all of the perfect moments in between. My face is the one my children see when they wake up. Rodan + Fields has already been life changing for me and I'm only in my first month of business, though I've been using the products for 10 months. So today, I'd like to bless YOU with a gift if you place an order today: a FREE Redefine Eye Cream ($62 value).
If you take advantage of one our amazing bundle deals happening right now, this is a savings of OVER $150! Message me to cash in on this deal! You can always just comment how adorable my sweet (baby's name) is sleeping too.
I can imagine this appeals to people who think they're being financially smart. Saving $150! wow! And just what they need, redefining eye cream.
How did they define eye cream prior to that point?
-
I didnt read back 9 pages, did the first but by me and on my facebook it seemed like two years ago I couldnt check my FB page with out a pitch for Norwex , now the adds are even more aggressive but its all plexus. Is that an MLM? I am just shocked how many people I know are pushing the stuff. Alot of times it seems to be the same people going from one to another or selling more than one.
-
[...] now the adds are even more aggressive but its all plexus. Is that an MLM?
Yes.
-
[...] now the adds are even more aggressive but its all plexus. Is that an MLM?
Yes.
Thanks, Thats what I thought. Started with one person and now at least a half a dozen. And they are intense.
-
[...] now the adds are even more aggressive but its all plexus. Is that an MLM?
Yes.
Plexus has an FDA warning letter out against it. They claim all kinds of outrageous and contradictory health outcomes. Stay far, far away from it.
-
Someone recently in a facebook discussion group insisted that MLMs are smart because "that's how Warren Buffett got rich".
I guess Buffet/Berkshire owns Pampered Chef. But I think it is a pretty safe bet that PC is not the primary driver of Berkshire growth.
I see that PC websites really like to tout Buffet's name to try to get new consultants. But this is what we've always known, MLM really is a great way to get rich .... but only if you own the whole dang company.
They acquired Pampered Chef in 2002 (http://www.berkshirehathaway.com/news/sep2302.html). Buffett has been investing since the 1950s, and has been a billionaire since the 1990s. So Pampered Chef has nothing to do with his accumulation of wealth.
But they must believe he started out as a Pampered Chef Consultant.
It's so sad i could almost cry.
:(
-
Warren Buffet has never invited me to a Pampered Chef party.
-
The worst thing about all the 4 people who tried to get me to MLM was that they all believe and one of them still believes that there is going to be future rewards there as long as he stays in it. The worst thing is how hard one of them is trying to get me into it. Invite me to seminars, etc. In college, a guy I was helping with an essay is the first person who tried to introduce me to it but I was a curious person in those days and I told him, you know this sounds like a pyramid scheme... Is this even legal? At that time, I thought it wasn't legal and it was super fishy. I mean pay to enter, recruit people, etc.
I had to explain to a person that I am in a career right now with future prospects. If I put in the time he puts into MLM in to my actual job and continue networking and enhancing my resume, I could be making six figures in the future. If I dislike my current company, I can easily go to another with the skill set I've acquired.
-
Warren Buffet has never invited me to a Pampered Chef party.
Me neither. I feel so hurt. :(
-
The worst thing about all the 4 people who tried to get me to MLM was that they all believe and one of them still believes that there is going to be future rewards there as long as he stays in it. The worst thing is how hard one of them is trying to get me into it. Invite me to seminars, etc. In college, a guy I was helping with an essay is the first person who tried to introduce me to it but I was a curious person in those days and I told him, you know this sounds like a pyramid scheme... Is this even legal? At that time, I thought it wasn't legal and it was super fishy. I mean pay to enter, recruit people, etc.
I had to explain to a person that I am in a career right now with future prospects. If I put in the time he puts into MLM in to my actual job and continue networking and enhancing my resume, I could be making six figures in the future. If I dislike my current company, I can easily go to another with the skill set I've acquired.
The same way an MLM person can go to a new MLM with the skills they've acquired. Skills like paying money to join, destroying past friendships in a single message, and posting on Facebook all day. You know, highly valued life skills.
-
The same way an MLM person can go to a new MLM with the skills they've acquired. Skills like paying money to join, destroying past friendships in a single message, and posting on Facebook all day. You know, highly valued life skills.
:(
-
I just realized that only one letter (in the English Alphabet) separates MLM from MMM. And that one letter makes a HUGE difference in so many ways.
/DaytimeMusings
-
Warren Buffet has never invited me to a Pampered Chef party.
I would buy some stoneware for that.
-
Warren Buffet has never invited me to a Pampered Chef party.
I would buy some stoneware for that.
Seriously- I'd go to a Warren Buffet MLM any day. I'd buy all kinds of cookware, Jamberry, Younique, ugly leggings, whatever.
Think of how much the auctioned off sit-downs go with him each year. And you get to chat with him just to buy some books, wraps, shakes, candles, whatever else home party sales sell. :)
-
........
For those who haven't seen it: https://youtu.be/s6MwGeOm8iI (https://youtu.be/s6MwGeOm8iI) John Oliver is always fantastic =) He swears a lot though, so be warned for 'sensitive ears'.
Oh, but you should see his piece on "retirement plans" a/k/a financial advisers and fees: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gvZSpET11ZY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gvZSpET11ZY)
This video is soooo funny!! Totally worth the 30 minutes..... now off to watch some of his other stuff.
-
I just realized that only one letter (in the English Alphabet) separates MLM from MMM. And that one letter makes a HUGE difference in so many ways.
/DaytimeMusings
Blow your mind even more... MOM.
-
I just realized that only one letter (in the English Alphabet) separates MLM from MMM. And that one letter makes a HUGE difference in so many ways.
/DaytimeMusings
Blow your mind even more... MOM.
But O is 3 letters away.
-
I just realized that only one letter (in the English Alphabet) separates MLM from MMM. And that one letter makes a HUGE difference in so many ways.
/DaytimeMusings
Blow your mind even more... MOM.
But O is 3 letters away.
I cannot compute this mom joke.
But I know that MOM's slap can come fast and furious.
Source: #JingaNationLifeExperience
-
PSA:
Timeless Vie ( https://timelessvie.wordpress.com ) is one of the groups trying to bring awareness about the bad practices of MLM.
They've recently been the victims of malicious reports on facebook, and as a result their facebook page has been taken down.
There is a petition to bring it back:
https://www.change.org/p/facebook-bring-back-timeless-vie-on-facebook
They are one of the few websites trying to show the truth out about MLM and are one of the reasons I was able to see the problems when my little brother tried to get me to join his "great business opportunity". So, spreading the word if you want awareness groups like this one to survive: feel free to sign the petition.
-
A good friend of ours (officiant at our wedding) sells Advocare and has invited us to multiple "events" but we always turn him down. We have made it very clear that we will drink the shakes or whatever if he gives them to us, but we will not spend $0.01 on them. Last week DH told me that this friend had invited us to a party at his house. I inquired about whether it was a sales pitch and he said no. He said he asked our friend if it was an Advocare thing and the friend said no, it was a bunch of friends coming over. We showed up and he didn't actually lie to us - there was another Advocare seller there and he had a table set up in the kitchen, but it wasn't just an Advocare thing. They had 4 other couples/friends there, each with a table set up selling stuff. In their house! The den had a lady selling clothes and bags and LulaRoe, the living room had someone selling artwork and someone selling Mary Kay, and the dining room had someone selling travel/vacation packages.
Apparently they invited lots of friends over to "hangout" and buy stuff from their other friends. We didn't buy anything, but it was really hard to try and stay polite, while these women I've just met are trying to sell me clothes and makeup. That is never happening again, and DH will have to be very specific when he gets the details about future "parties"
-
A good friend of ours (officiant at our wedding) sells Advocare and has invited us to multiple "events" but we always turn him down. We have made it very clear that we will drink the shakes or whatever if he gives them to us, but we will not spend $0.01 on them. Last week DH told me that this friend had invited us to a party at his house. I inquired about whether it was a sales pitch and he said no. He said he asked our friend if it was an Advocare thing and the friend said no, it was a bunch of friends coming over. We showed up and he didn't actually lie to us - there was another Advocare seller there and he had a table set up in the kitchen, but it wasn't just an Advocare thing. They had 4 other couples/friends there, each with a table set up selling stuff. In their house! The den had a lady selling clothes and bags and LulaRoe, the living room had someone selling artwork and someone selling Mary Kay, and the dining room had someone selling travel/vacation packages.
Apparently they invited lots of friends over to "hangout" and buy stuff from their other friends. We didn't buy anything, but it was really hard to try and stay polite, while these women I've just met are trying to sell me clothes and makeup. That is never happening again, and DH will have to be very specific when he gets the details about future "parties"
Well, they didn't buy anything from you, either, so you should be off the hook!
-
A good friend of ours (officiant at our wedding) sells Advocare and has invited us to multiple "events" but we always turn him down. We have made it very clear that we will drink the shakes or whatever if he gives them to us, but we will not spend $0.01 on them. Last week DH told me that this friend had invited us to a party at his house. I inquired about whether it was a sales pitch and he said no. He said he asked our friend if it was an Advocare thing and the friend said no, it was a bunch of friends coming over. We showed up and he didn't actually lie to us - there was another Advocare seller there and he had a table set up in the kitchen, but it wasn't just an Advocare thing. They had 4 other couples/friends there, each with a table set up selling stuff. In their house! The den had a lady selling clothes and bags and LulaRoe, the living room had someone selling artwork and someone selling Mary Kay, and the dining room had someone selling travel/vacation packages.
Apparently they invited lots of friends over to "hangout" and buy stuff from their other friends. We didn't buy anything, but it was really hard to try and stay polite, while these women I've just met are trying to sell me clothes and makeup. That is never happening again, and DH will have to be very specific when he gets the details about future "parties"
Is there a record to be broken on how many MLM products can be sold under the same roof? That makes me want to post the Ron Burgundy "I'm not mad, I'm impressed' meme.
-
A good friend of ours (officiant at our wedding) sells Advocare and has invited us to multiple "events" but we always turn him down. We have made it very clear that we will drink the shakes or whatever if he gives them to us, but we will not spend $0.01 on them. Last week DH told me that this friend had invited us to a party at his house. I inquired about whether it was a sales pitch and he said no. He said he asked our friend if it was an Advocare thing and the friend said no, it was a bunch of friends coming over. We showed up and he didn't actually lie to us - there was another Advocare seller there and he had a table set up in the kitchen, but it wasn't just an Advocare thing. They had 4 other couples/friends there, each with a table set up selling stuff. In their house! The den had a lady selling clothes and bags and LulaRoe, the living room had someone selling artwork and someone selling Mary Kay, and the dining room had someone selling travel/vacation packages.
Apparently they invited lots of friends over to "hangout" and buy stuff from their other friends. We didn't buy anything, but it was really hard to try and stay polite, while these women I've just met are trying to sell me clothes and makeup. That is never happening again, and DH will have to be very specific when he gets the details about future "parties"
It's sad that adults these days can't just get together to have fun and talk. Everything seems to revolve around sales and recruiting.
-
It's sad that adults these days can't just get together to have fun and talk. Everything seems to revolve around sales and recruiting.
I agree completely. With all of our other friends we get together and have dinner, or game night. I had never actually met this particular friend's wife, because we always say we need to get together but anytime they invite us to something it is a sales pitch. If we invite them over, they can't come because they have something going on with their kids. I was starting to feel guilty about it so we jumped at the chance to go to a party at their house. Apparently that was a bad idea.
-
It's sad that adults these days can't just get together to have fun and talk. Everything seems to revolve around sales and recruiting.
I agree completely. With all of our other friends we get together and have dinner, or game night. I had never actually met this particular friend's wife, because we always say we need to get together but anytime they invite us to something it is a sales pitch. If we invite them over, they can't come because they have something going on with their kids. I was starting to feel guilty about it so we jumped at the chance to go to a party at their house. Apparently that was a bad idea.
I hope this doesn't ever become part of my social life. I get together with friends for dinner parties and game nights and I would be pissed at all if it ever starts becoming a MLM thing. Of course I haven't been asked to buy anything from an MLM for ages, I credit it to me being honest when someone tried to pitch me, I told them, "I'm not going to buy that crap!" Felt guilty right away, but then smiled once I realized that this "friend" (more someone I know than a friend) wasn't going to bother pitching me again.
-
Some of these products I never even heard of until this thread except for Avon and Lularoe. I see Lularoe is starting to turn on its salespeople already.
-
It's sad that adults these days can't just get together to have fun and talk. Everything seems to revolve around sales and recruiting.
I agree completely. With all of our other friends we get together and have dinner, or game night. I had never actually met this particular friend's wife, because we always say we need to get together but anytime they invite us to something it is a sales pitch. If we invite them over, they can't come because they have something going on with their kids. I was starting to feel guilty about it so we jumped at the chance to go to a party at their house. Apparently that was a bad idea.
Odd: business happens quite a bit at some of my parties, but it's not of the MLM type. Two guests, who start out as strangers but who become friendly over the course of the evening or else who know each other slightly but aren't close, suddenly realize they have an alignment of interests. One woman realized that her friend was an extremely good dog groomer, and started bringing her dogs to her. A drummer from one of my jam sessions got recruited by another guest who was putting a band together. A quilter who does longarm topstitching work for hire picked up a commission from the dog groomer. Then of course there's what I call the "gift shift": someone has something they don't use anymore, like an old chicken coop or a bunch of yarn scraps or baby clothes, who gives them to someone else who can use them. All of this builds trust, community, and social capital. Giving that up to push MLM doesn't make sense to me.
-
It's sad that adults these days can't just get together to have fun and talk. Everything seems to revolve around sales and recruiting.
I agree completely. With all of our other friends we get together and have dinner, or game night. I had never actually met this particular friend's wife, because we always say we need to get together but anytime they invite us to something it is a sales pitch. If we invite them over, they can't come because they have something going on with their kids. I was starting to feel guilty about it so we jumped at the chance to go to a party at their house. Apparently that was a bad idea.
I'm in a moms of multiples club, and none of the women seem to be interested at all in social gatherings, unless it involves them being able to pitch their MLM. I'd say about 50-60% of the moms in this group are involved in MLM. They join social groups for that very purpose. They aren't really interested in making friends. Some send me friend requests on facebook as part of their MLM networking. I've never met them and don't accept friend requests from people I haven't met in person.
-
A good friend of ours (officiant at our wedding) sells Advocare and has invited us to multiple "events" but we always turn him down. We have made it very clear that we will drink the shakes or whatever if he gives them to us, but we will not spend $0.01 on them. Last week DH told me that this friend had invited us to a party at his house. I inquired about whether it was a sales pitch and he said no. He said he asked our friend if it was an Advocare thing and the friend said no, it was a bunch of friends coming over. We showed up and he didn't actually lie to us - there was another Advocare seller there and he had a table set up in the kitchen, but it wasn't just an Advocare thing. They had 4 other couples/friends there, each with a table set up selling stuff. In their house! The den had a lady selling clothes and bags and LulaRoe, the living room had someone selling artwork and someone selling Mary Kay, and the dining room had someone selling travel/vacation packages.
Apparently they invited lots of friends over to "hangout" and buy stuff from their other friends. We didn't buy anything, but it was really hard to try and stay polite, while these women I've just met are trying to sell me clothes and makeup. That is never happening again, and DH will have to be very specific when he gets the details about future "parties"
No, he absolutely lied to you. These multi-sales parties are pretty common around here; but thank god my friends don't try to trick us into showing up.
-
A good friend of ours (officiant at our wedding) sells Advocare and has invited us to multiple "events" but we always turn him down. We have made it very clear that we will drink the shakes or whatever if he gives them to us, but we will not spend $0.01 on them. Last week DH told me that this friend had invited us to a party at his house. I inquired about whether it was a sales pitch and he said no. He said he asked our friend if it was an Advocare thing and the friend said no, it was a bunch of friends coming over. We showed up and he didn't actually lie to us - there was another Advocare seller there and he had a table set up in the kitchen, but it wasn't just an Advocare thing. They had 4 other couples/friends there, each with a table set up selling stuff. In their house! The den had a lady selling clothes and bags and LulaRoe, the living room had someone selling artwork and someone selling Mary Kay, and the dining room had someone selling travel/vacation packages.
Apparently they invited lots of friends over to "hangout" and buy stuff from their other friends. We didn't buy anything, but it was really hard to try and stay polite, while these women I've just met are trying to sell me clothes and makeup. That is never happening again, and DH will have to be very specific when he gets the details about future "parties"
No, he absolutely lied to you. These multi-sales parties are pretty common around here; but thank god my friends don't try to trick us into showing up.
Anyone who did that to me would no longer be my friend. There are just so many better ways to entertain.
I'm also a fan of honesty in entertainment. If I'm going to host, say, a wedding shower or a baby shower for someone, I come right out and say so. People still come, because the shower events are not lame.
The last wedding shower I hosted involved team BattleShots and Cards Against Humanity. A few years ago I threw a "manly tool party" as a groom shower; I made him register at a couple hardware stores that interested him, there was a keg of beer, and on a whim I wrote "dress like a pirate" on each invitation. Most people did, and I duct taped a pirate hook to the guest of honor's dominant hand and made him open packages that way. There have been linen themed tea parties for teetotaler brides, a jam session for a musical groom-to-be, and one of the next showers I'm planning is going to be a quilting bee. Those who have sewing machines will bring them, everyone will contribute labor as opposed to things that cost money (I can find work for the non-crafters at the cutting table or the ironing board), and the soon to be married couple will end up with an awesome quilt that they get to see made.
In fairness, a MLM themed party where all the guests are MLM'ers might just constitute a "fun" theme party where they all agree to buy each other's overpriced crap. But I'd hate to go to such a thing myself; I'd feel like the only human at a vampire convention.
-
...
No, he absolutely lied to you. These multi-sales parties are pretty common around here; but thank god my friends don't try to trick us into showing up.
Anyone who did that to me would no longer be my friend. There are just so many better ways to entertain.
...
In fairness, a MLM themed party where all the guests are MLM'ers might just constitute a "fun" theme party where they all agree to buy each other's overpriced crap. But I'd hate to go to such a thing myself; I'd feel like the only human at a vampire convention.
Particularly if the party organizer knows for a fact you're not an MLM participant and you've expressed reservations about being around those activities in the past. As we've discussed on here plenty of times, the business model of MLMs requires you and sometimes flat out encourages the unrepentant exploitation of personal relationships.
-
A good friend of ours (officiant at our wedding) sells Advocare and has invited us to multiple "events" but we always turn him down. We have made it very clear that we will drink the shakes or whatever if he gives them to us, but we will not spend $0.01 on them. Last week DH told me that this friend had invited us to a party at his house. I inquired about whether it was a sales pitch and he said no. He said he asked our friend if it was an Advocare thing and the friend said no, it was a bunch of friends coming over. We showed up and he didn't actually lie to us - there was another Advocare seller there and he had a table set up in the kitchen, but it wasn't just an Advocare thing. They had 4 other couples/friends there, each with a table set up selling stuff. In their house! The den had a lady selling clothes and bags and LulaRoe, the living room had someone selling artwork and someone selling Mary Kay, and the dining room had someone selling travel/vacation packages.
Apparently they invited lots of friends over to "hangout" and buy stuff from their other friends. We didn't buy anything, but it was really hard to try and stay polite, while these women I've just met are trying to sell me clothes and makeup. That is never happening again, and DH will have to be very specific when he gets the details about future "parties"
No, he absolutely lied to you. These multi-sales parties are pretty common around here; but thank god my friends don't try to trick us into showing up.
Anyone who did that to me would no longer be my friend. There are just so many better ways to entertain.
I'm also a fan of honesty in entertainment. If I'm going to host, say, a wedding shower or a baby shower for someone, I come right out and say so. People still come, because the shower events are not lame.
The last wedding shower I hosted involved team BattleShots and Cards Against Humanity. A few years ago I threw a "manly tool party" as a groom shower; I made him register at a couple hardware stores that interested him, there was a keg of beer, and on a whim I wrote "dress like a pirate" on each invitation. Most people did, and I duct taped a pirate hook to the guest of honor's dominant hand and made him open packages that way. There have been linen themed tea parties for teetotaler brides, a jam session for a musical groom-to-be, and one of the next showers I'm planning is going to be a quilting bee. Those who have sewing machines will bring them, everyone will contribute labor as opposed to things that cost money (I can find work for the non-crafters at the cutting table or the ironing board), and the soon to be married couple will end up with an awesome quilt that they get to see made.
In fairness, a MLM themed party where all the guests are MLM'ers might just constitute a "fun" theme party where they all agree to buy each other's overpriced crap. But I'd hate to go to such a thing myself; I'd feel like the only human at a vampire convention.
These are the absolute best shower ideas I've ever seen in my life. Job well done!
-
This is from Living Stingy: "Any business relationship predicated on a lie, no matter how trivial, will inevitably go downhill from there."
-
This is from Living Stingy: "Any business relationship predicated on a lie, no matter how trivial, will inevitably go downhill from there."
Filed under the category of "Well, no shit." It's sad that that statement has to be put to paper to remind folks.
-
No, he absolutely lied to you. These multi-sales parties are pretty common around here; but thank god my friends don't try to trick us into showing up.
Regarding "tricks", many of them trick people in various ways. Premier Jewelry parties, the host would promise a free gift for everyone who showed up. They had jewelry displays, but didn't want to sell any of the jewelry. The hostess even shooed people away from the table. Instead, they wanted the guests to sit down in hard, metal folding chairs and listen to a 2-hour long pitch of the business. They were recruiting. At the end, if you said you didn't want to work the business, they forced you to give the boxed gift back to them.
-
No, he absolutely lied to you. These multi-sales parties are pretty common around here; but thank god my friends don't try to trick us into showing up.
Regarding "tricks", many of them trick people in various ways. Premier Jewelry parties, the host would promise a free gift for everyone who showed up. They had jewelry displays, but didn't want to sell any of the jewelry. The hostess even shooed people away from the table. Instead, they wanted the guests to sit down in hard, metal folding chairs and listen to a 2-hour long pitch of the business. They were recruiting. At the end, if you said you didn't want to work the business, they forced you to give the boxed gift back to them.
That's horrible!!
-
No, he absolutely lied to you. These multi-sales parties are pretty common around here; but thank god my friends don't try to trick us into showing up.
Regarding "tricks", many of them trick people in various ways. Premier Jewelry parties, the host would promise a free gift for everyone who showed up. They had jewelry displays, but didn't want to sell any of the jewelry. The hostess even shooed people away from the table. Instead, they wanted the guests to sit down in hard, metal folding chairs and listen to a 2-hour long pitch of the business. They were recruiting. At the end, if you said you didn't want to work the business, they forced you to give the boxed gift back to them.
"Oh sure. Of course you can have MY gift back. Here you g... oh whoops silly me I'm so clumsy and now it's broken."
I have received another Facebook "invite" today. From someone who hasn't contacted me in over 15 years. R+F skinfresh. Delete. Unfriend.
-
No, he absolutely lied to you. These multi-sales parties are pretty common around here; but thank god my friends don't try to trick us into showing up.
Regarding "tricks", many of them trick people in various ways. Premier Jewelry parties, the host would promise a free gift for everyone who showed up. They had jewelry displays, but didn't want to sell any of the jewelry. The hostess even shooed people away from the table. Instead, they wanted the guests to sit down in hard, metal folding chairs and listen to a 2-hour long pitch of the business. They were recruiting. At the end, if you said you didn't want to work the business, they forced you to give the boxed gift back to them.
The Premier Jewelry parties that I've attended were way more pleasant and focused on the jewelry than that!
BUT - the "free gift" is always a trick. At the ones I've been to, inside the box is a piece of jewelry that you could keep if you agreed to host a party. If you didn't want to host a party, you had to return the box/jewelry. Some gift!
-
Last week DH told me that this friend had invited us to a party flea market taking place at his house.
FIFY
-
No, he absolutely lied to you. These multi-sales parties are pretty common around here; but thank god my friends don't try to trick us into showing up.
Regarding "tricks", many of them trick people in various ways. Premier Jewelry parties, the host would promise a free gift for everyone who showed up. They had jewelry displays, but didn't want to sell any of the jewelry. The hostess even shooed people away from the table. Instead, they wanted the guests to sit down in hard, metal folding chairs and listen to a 2-hour long pitch of the business. They were recruiting. At the end, if you said you didn't want to work the business, they forced you to give the boxed gift back to them.
That's horrible!!
Oh yes, it was rude, I just gave it back to them. I found out later that the gift was a cheap, stretchy bracelet with plastic beads. Crap jewelry.
-
No, he absolutely lied to you. These multi-sales parties are pretty common around here; but thank god my friends don't try to trick us into showing up.
Regarding "tricks", many of them trick people in various ways. Premier Jewelry parties, the host would promise a free gift for everyone who showed up. They had jewelry displays, but didn't want to sell any of the jewelry. The hostess even shooed people away from the table. Instead, they wanted the guests to sit down in hard, metal folding chairs and listen to a 2-hour long pitch of the business. They were recruiting. At the end, if you said you didn't want to work the business, they forced you to give the boxed gift back to them.
That's horrible!!
Oh yes, it was rude, I just gave it back to them. I found out later that the gift was a cheap, stretchy bracelet with plastic beads. Crap jewelry.
How else could they afford to hand them out as gifts?
-
No, he absolutely lied to you. These multi-sales parties are pretty common around here; but thank god my friends don't try to trick us into showing up.
Regarding "tricks", many of them trick people in various ways. Premier Jewelry parties, the host would promise a free gift for everyone who showed up. They had jewelry displays, but didn't want to sell any of the jewelry. The hostess even shooed people away from the table. Instead, they wanted the guests to sit down in hard, metal folding chairs and listen to a 2-hour long pitch of the business. They were recruiting. At the end, if you said you didn't want to work the business, they forced you to give the boxed gift back to them.
That's horrible!!
Oh yes, it was rude, I just gave it back to them. I found out later that the gift was a cheap, stretchy bracelet with plastic beads. Crap jewelry.
How else could they afford to hand them out as gifts?
I propose a spontaneous return gift of a generous mooning, en route to the door.
-
Just be wary any time a "free gift" is offered. There are often strings attached and/or the gift is worthless. Years ago, my friend hosted a Mary Kay party in her home, providing all the food, drinks and cleaning up afterward. The MK rep had promised a free lipstick for hosting the party. Which would be a small token of appreciation. However, what she gave her instead was a lipstick sample, just a small pat of lipstick on a piece of cardboard. It was so tacky, considering how hard my friend had worked to host the party for this woman. She didn't even get a thank you note in the mail. Can these ladies get any tackier??
On a personal note, I can't stand those little pink polyester suits that MK women wear with the stick pins and scarf. I can see them coming a mile away. They are everywhere in my city, where MK has it's corporate headquarters.
-
Just be wary any time a "free gift" is offered. There are often strings attached and/or the gift is worthless.
I tried a few of those "sign up for free" deals to get coupons or travel points and the like. To my horror I discovered all the caveats. They give out your email to dozens of other vendors who spam the hell out of you and they often require you to sign up to other websites without you realizing it. We received a "welcome to the neighborhood" mailer full of coupons for local businesses. There was a free car wash, no strings attached. There was a free large one topping pizza, no strings attached(!). Then there was "sign up for these twice a month boxes of snacks we'll mail to your door. The first one is free, we just need your credit card info." Yeah, I've seen this movie before. Despite them saying it's for admin purposes, they'll manage to squeeze at least one payment from you before you can cancel. The form even said on top "you only pay for the boxes you order" while the bottom of the form said "it's a monthly subscription." That one went into the trash. It took my wife and I a few bruises before we learned to put up the armor against hard-sell tactics too. We've found it much easier to just ignore a product or deal that may actually be beneficial if the free gift or too-good-to-be-true alarm goes off.
-
Just be wary any time a "free gift" is offered. There are often strings attached and/or the gift is worthless.
I tried a few of those "sign up for free" deals to get coupons or travel points and the like. To my horror I discovered all the caveats. They give out your email to dozens of other vendors who spam the hell out of you and they often require you to sign up to other websites without you realizing it. We received a "welcome to the neighborhood" mailer full of coupons for local businesses. There was a free car wash, no strings attached. There was a free large one topping pizza, no strings attached(!). Then there was "sign up for these twice a month boxes of snacks we'll mail to your door. The first one is free, we just need your credit card info." Yeah, I've seen this movie before. Despite them saying it's for admin purposes, they'll manage to squeeze at least one payment from you before you can cancel. The form even said on top "you only pay for the boxes you order" while the bottom of the form said "it's a monthly subscription." That one went into the trash. It took my wife and I a few bruises before we learned to put up the armor against hard-sell tactics too. We've found it much easier to just ignore a product or deal that may actually be beneficial if the free gift or too-good-to-be-true alarm goes off.
I've used my credit card to pay for things and found later they were billing me every month. Now I am extremely wary of using a credit card for anything, any reason. Some companies will charge you for things, without your authorization. They will milk the card as often as they can. Many customers may never notice the charges on their bill.
-
Just be wary any time a "free gift" is offered. There are often strings attached and/or the gift is worthless. Years ago, my friend hosted a Mary Kay party in her home, providing all the food, drinks and cleaning up afterward. The MK rep had promised a free lipstick for hosting the party. Which would be a small token of appreciation. However, what she gave her instead was a lipstick sample, just a small pat of lipstick on a piece of cardboard. It was so tacky, considering how hard my friend had worked to host the party for this woman. She didn't even get a thank you note in the mail. Can these ladies get any tackier??
On a personal note, I can't stand those little pink polyester suits that MK women wear with the stick pins and scarf. I can see them coming a mile away. They are everywhere in my city, where MK has it's corporate headquarters.
Years ago i worked with someone who sold Mary Kay. She became such a PIA bothering all the other female employees they started calling her "Mary C*nt" behind her back.
-
MLMs bring back some of my worst memories in life.
My parents went broke during the financial crisis, right in 2007. During the process they had each started some personal side businesses that were MLM-related, one of which had been introduced to them by my former private lessons music instructor, who was on his own downward cycle. Unlike him and his wife, my parents didn't later divorce, something I'm eternally grateful for.
My mom got involved with a health product. We were always kind of a junk food family, though not morbidly obese. I think she felt bad. She tried to make me take those products as well, which led to some adolescent rage and tears, and eventually she relented. My dad got involved with some side sales of products at gas stations. Frequently items were stolen by customers or the gas stations lied and didn't report the full sales. They lost a lot trying to scrape extra money.
I think my parents, like most people, had a hard time understanding opportunity cost and the cost of one's time. I've had several friends do MLMs for side money, but none ever worked out well for them. From the wikipedia page: "Studies by independent consumer watchdog agencies have shown that between 990 and 999 of every 1000 participants (i.e. between 99.0% and 99.9% of all participants) in MLMs in fact lose money."
If my dad had spent that time and money getting his CLD Class B license, it would have made him untold tens of thousands more over the years. My mom still makes some side cash from candles, not associated with any MLM thank God, but even then they take whole evenings to make for "extra cash" returns.
I would tell anybody, absolutely anybody, to invest in employable skills, or skills that will make you more money, and not to waste time and effort getting scammed....
-
I've used my credit card to pay for things and found later they were billing me every month. Now I am extremely wary of using a credit card for anything, any reason. Some companies will charge you for things, without your authorization. They will milk the card as often as they can. Many customers may never notice the charges on their bill.
I use a credit card for as much as I can to get the 2+% cash back rewards. I've never had someone billing me for something I didn't order or subscribe to. I agree that subscriptions can be a pain to cancel.
-
I've used my credit card to pay for things and found later they were billing me every month. Now I am extremely wary of using a credit card for anything, any reason. Some companies will charge you for things, without your authorization. They will milk the card as often as they can. Many customers may never notice the charges on their bill.
I use a credit card for as much as I can to get the 2+% cash back rewards. I've never had someone billing me for something I didn't order or subscribe to. I agree that subscriptions can be a pain to cancel.
I once had a subscription that I could not cancel. I had the CC company stop payment, instead.
-
A friend started an MLM in skincare and wanted me to have a party. When I found out a package containing a small bottle of shampoo and conditioner cost $85 I politely declined.
A friend had a Tupperware party and I went along just to get the attendance numbers up..I had strictly told her I would not be buying. She was absolutely ok with that. The Tupperware consultant, however, was not. She was so cranky I didn't buy anything. I got the look and she wouldn't talk to me. Plus the party went for an hour + and for a large part of that we played 'games' and for some reason everyone took them so seriously. It was incredibly boring and very very competitive and snarky.
-
I've used my credit card to pay for things and found later they were billing me every month. Now I am extremely wary of using a credit card for anything, any reason. Some companies will charge you for things, without your authorization. They will milk the card as often as they can. Many customers may never notice the charges on their bill.
I use a credit card for as much as I can to get the 2+% cash back rewards. I've never had someone billing me for something I didn't order or subscribe to. I agree that subscriptions can be a pain to cancel.
I once had a subscription that I could not cancel. I had the CC company stop payment, instead.
+1 I use a credit card for absolutely everything I can. There is a lot of protection there.
-
I use a credit card for as much as I can to get the 2+% cash back rewards. I've never had someone billing me for something I didn't order or subscribe to. I agree that subscriptions can be a pain to cancel.
I once had a subscription that I could not cancel. I had the CC company stop payment, instead.
+1 I use a credit card for absolutely everything I can. There is a lot of protection there.
I agree, a credit card (reconciled and paid off each billing cycle) is a great way to protect yourself when paying for things. I do sometimes use cash (and very rarely write a check). I also use online bill pay for reoccuring payments that don't accept credit cards. However I've never used a debit card (except for ATM transactions with PIN). Unauthorized charge on credit card - dispute the charge and never have to pay (unless the bank is convinced that you did authorize the charge); unauthorized charge on debit card - wait until bank resolves the issue before money is returned to your account.
-
I had an acquaintance call MY HUSBAND to ask me what type of business she should get for her nail stickers MLM she was starting (well after the newness of the fad wore off). She really thought she was going to make so much money that she would need to incorporate. First, if you have a question for me ask ME! I told her to wait a year and see how much money she actually made
-
I agree, a credit card (reconciled and paid off each billing cycle) is a great way to protect yourself when paying for things. I do sometimes use cash (and very rarely write a check). I also use online bill pay for reoccuring payments that don't accept credit cards. However I've never used a debit card (except for ATM transactions with PIN). Unauthorized charge on credit card - dispute the charge and never have to pay (unless the bank is convinced that you did authorize the charge); unauthorized charge on debit card - wait until bank resolves the issue before money is returned to your account.
That's why Dave Ramsey is wrong to tell people to never, ever use a credit card.
-
I agree, a credit card (reconciled and paid off each billing cycle) is a great way to protect yourself when paying for things. I do sometimes use cash (and very rarely write a check). I also use online bill pay for reoccuring payments that don't accept credit cards. However I've never used a debit card (except for ATM transactions with PIN). Unauthorized charge on credit card - dispute the charge and never have to pay (unless the bank is convinced that you did authorize the charge); unauthorized charge on debit card - wait until bank resolves the issue before money is returned to your account.
That's why Dave Ramsey is wrong to tell people to never, ever use a credit card.
That and other reasons, like cash back rewards.
-
I had an acquaintance call MY HUSBAND to ask me what type of business she should get for her nail stickers MLM she was starting (well after the newness of the fad wore off). She really thought she was going to make so much money that she would need to incorporate. First, if you have a question for me ask ME! I told her to wait a year and see how much money she actually made
HMM, don't MLM's usually need a city business license to run a business, especially with on-line and sales components, out of their home? You have me thinking...
-
I had an acquaintance call MY HUSBAND to ask me what type of business she should get for her nail stickers MLM she was starting (well after the newness of the fad wore off). She really thought she was going to make so much money that she would need to incorporate. First, if you have a question for me ask ME! I told her to wait a year and see how much money she actually made
HMM, don't MLM's usually need a city business license to run a business, especially with on-line and sales components, out of their home? You have me thinking...
No, she wouldn't need a business license or need to incorporate anything. The business she's in has already been incorporated, by someone else. This is what people in MLMs simply don't get! They are not entrepreneurs and they aren't starting a business. They are selling stuff for a business that someone else started and is running. In fact, if you want the literal term for these people, they are really just customers. They are buying inventory and if they can't re-sell it, they're stuck with it. To be brutally honest, these people are very, very dumb to think they are entrepreneurs who start a business. Even a kid setting up a lemonade stand is more of an entrepreneur than they are.
-
Evidently, there is an MLM that sells toothpaste?
One of the most strident MLMers I know is a nun.
-
I had an acquaintance call MY HUSBAND to ask me what type of business she should get for her nail stickers MLM she was starting (well after the newness of the fad wore off). She really thought she was going to make so much money that she would need to incorporate. First, if you have a question for me ask ME! I told her to wait a year and see how much money she actually made
HMM, don't MLM's usually need a city business license to run a business, especially with on-line and sales components, out of their home? You have me thinking...
No, she wouldn't need a business license or need to incorporate anything. The business she's in has already been incorporated, by someone else. This is what people in MLMs simply don't get! They are not entrepreneurs and they aren't starting a business. They are selling stuff for a business that someone else started and is running. In fact, if you want the literal term for these people, they are really just customers. They are buying inventory and if they can't re-sell it, they're stuck with it. To be brutally honest, these people are very, very dumb to think they are entrepreneurs who start a business. Even a kid setting up a lemonade stand is more of an entrepreneur than they are.
But they're self-employed CEOs. They said so on Linkedin!
-
I know a lady who is a "Beach Body Coach". She posts a lot of workout selfies and hosts "accountability groups", but doesn't push the selling anything, and is honest that if you're going to ask for a recommendation for a workout routine, that she's going to suggest a beach body one.
Anyway, it made me curious, so I looked up the price of the shakes. $130 for a 30 day supply. WTF?! Of course, the reasoning is "all those nutrients, you'll never get that many on your own!" That's pretty much half my grocery budget for the month (for two people, minus bulk meat). Why in the world would a shake mix be so expensive?
-
I had an acquaintance call MY HUSBAND to ask me what type of business she should get for her nail stickers MLM she was starting (well after the newness of the fad wore off). She really thought she was going to make so much money that she would need to incorporate. First, if you have a question for me ask ME! I told her to wait a year and see how much money she actually made
HMM, don't MLM's usually need a city business license to run a business, especially with on-line and sales components, out of their home? You have me thinking...
No, she wouldn't need a business license or need to incorporate anything. The business she's in has already been incorporated, by someone else. This is what people in MLMs simply don't get! They are not entrepreneurs and they aren't starting a business. They are selling stuff for a business that someone else started and is running. In fact, if you want the literal term for these people, they are really just customers. They are buying inventory and if they can't re-sell it, they're stuck with it. To be brutally honest, these people are very, very dumb to think they are entrepreneurs who start a business. Even a kid setting up a lemonade stand is more of an entrepreneur than they are.
I almost typed this exact reply. There is already real business license. And a real CEO. And it's not the SAHM schilling the wares. They are distributors/salesmen with a flexible schedule, not "business owners", "bosses", "CEOs".
-
I had an acquaintance call MY HUSBAND to ask me what type of business she should get for her nail stickers MLM she was starting (well after the newness of the fad wore off). She really thought she was going to make so much money that she would need to incorporate. First, if you have a question for me ask ME! I told her to wait a year and see how much money she actually made
HMM, don't MLM's usually need a city business license to run a business, especially with on-line and sales components, out of their home? You have me thinking...
No, she wouldn't need a business license or need to incorporate anything. The business she's in has already been incorporated, by someone else. This is what people in MLMs simply don't get! They are not entrepreneurs and they aren't starting a business. They are selling stuff for a business that someone else started and is running. In fact, if you want the literal term for these people, they are really just customers. They are buying inventory and if they can't re-sell it, they're stuck with it. To be brutally honest, these people are very, very dumb to think they are entrepreneurs who start a business. Even a kid setting up a lemonade stand is more of an entrepreneur than they are.
I know what you are saying -- that would be a great response to a woman touting #girlboss -- "how much did your business license cost?"...
But..., don't most people need a business license to sell items (repeatedly) from their homes... (city license, not about business structure).
My DH did, and he mostly drop shipped electric bike parts, and sold about 5 units a month from our garage. I do, I sell my services and no one even comes to my home. A photographer with a home studio or meeting clients to sell services needs one, etc....
Hmmm... gets me thinking about more than just MLMs, then.. but about some of the "work from home" commission sales roles and such. The produce broker I know has a business license (100% work from home, yet no one goes to his home nor goods), but not the sales rep that works for a company selling industrial sensors (he takes the company van and travels to client sites to do the selling there, but calls them from home office, paperwork at home, etc).
Anyone know the general rule of thumb when one needs (or is supposed to get) a city business license to work from home?
-
Anyway, it made me curious, so I looked up the price of the shakes. $130 for a 30 day supply.
Price has gone way up then. Those 30 day shake supplies used to be around $90-100.
And they taste terrible.
-
Anyone know the general rule of thumb when one needs (or is supposed to get) a city business license to work from home?
Lots of people work from home and if they work for an employer, they probably don't need a license of any sort. Why would they? It's not like anyone knows what they're doing in their house. I work from home and don't have any kind of license.
People who cook things and sell them from their own kitchen, often have to get a license in some states. And have to get their kitchen inspected, too. That's only one example I can think of.
-
Anyone know the general rule of thumb when one needs (or is supposed to get) a city business license to work from home?
Lots of people work from home and if they work for an employer, they probably don't need a license of any sort. Why would they? It's not like anyone knows what they're doing in their house. I work from home and don't have any kind of license.
People who cook things and sell them from their own kitchen, often have to get a license in some states. And have to get their kitchen inspected, too. That's only one example I can think of.
Okay, I was very curious, so I looked up the local reg's...
"Business" means the carrying on of a commercial or industrial
undertaking of any kind or nature, or the providing of
professional, personal or other services for the purpose of
gain or profit;
Except as hereinafter provided, no person shall carry on a business within the
Municipality, without holding a valid and subsisting licence for the
business so carried on.
.....
I would guess that if you are an employee of a business with a license, that you don't need your own license... BUT.. the bylaw states that a multiple location license is needed if you operate in more than one location, and that a license is required for every city. (we live in a greater area that has several municipalities)...
So, for a MLM, someone in the upper levels of the MLM would need to have a license that covers you in your location...and covers multiple offices being allowed..(especially if sales occur from the homes). If not, then you are required to get a license, or face the chance of a $500 fine (per day) until you get one.
That would be a great question for the upline, anyway.
-
But..., don't most people need a business license to sell items (repeatedly) from their homes... (city license, not about business structure).
My DH did, and he mostly drop shipped electric bike parts, and sold about 5 units a month from our garage. I do, I sell my services and no one even comes to my home. A photographer with a home studio or meeting clients to sell services needs one, etc....
Depending on the city, they might need a licenses if they have customers coming to their home to purchase things. If they are working from home, but don't have customers regularly coming to their home to purchase things, the business license of the MLM should be enough if valid in their state. Since most of the time they go to client homes to host "parties", most MLM "businesses" are not regularly selling from their home.
-
That would be a great question for the upline, anyway.
"Your" upline won't know anything.
/my experience with a few MLMs
-
But..., don't most people need a business license to sell items (repeatedly) from their homes... (city license, not about business structure).
My DH did, and he mostly drop shipped electric bike parts, and sold about 5 units a month from our garage. I do, I sell my services and no one even comes to my home. A photographer with a home studio or meeting clients to sell services needs one, etc....
Depending on the city, they might need a licenses if they have customers coming to their home to purchase things. If they are working from home, but don't have customers regularly coming to their home to purchase things, the business license of the MLM should be enough if valid in their state. Since most of the time they go to client homes to host "parties", most MLM "businesses" are not regularly selling from their home.
At the end of the day, I guess that the answer is "for profit"..
On line sales reps and home-based businesses that don't employ others also require a city license to operate, but not charities or if you are selling goods (garage sale once a year) at a loss.
If it is generally accepted that MLMs do not make profit at that (home) location, then a reps don't need a license to operate.
-
But..., don't most people need a business license to sell items (repeatedly) from their homes... (city license, not about business structure).
My DH did, and he mostly drop shipped electric bike parts, and sold about 5 units a month from our garage. I do, I sell my services and no one even comes to my home. A photographer with a home studio or meeting clients to sell services needs one, etc....
Depending on the city, they might need a licenses if they have customers coming to their home to purchase things. If they are working from home, but don't have customers regularly coming to their home to purchase things, the business license of the MLM should be enough if valid in their state. Since most of the time they go to client homes to host "parties", most MLM "businesses" are not regularly selling from their home.
At the end of the day, I guess that the answer is "for profit"..
On line sales reps and home-based businesses that don't employ others also require a city license to operate, but not charities or if you are selling goods (garage sale once a year) at a loss.
If it is generally accepted that MLMs do not make profit at that (home) location, then a reps don't need a license to operate.
That's pretty sad. "You don't need a license because you're not going to make any money."
-
A friend of mine just switched from Isagenix to Usborne Books. She posted on facebook yesterday that if she gets X amount more in orders placed she won't have to pay for her 'kit'. She had a couple people help her out and then next thing I know she's inviting me to an online party. Ugh.
I like books, but my kids go to the library and honestly if I'm going to buy something it's going to be at our local used bookstore or Costco.
She isn't super pushy but it just makes me shake my head because I can't understand the draw of something that to me is obviously a terrible idea/plan.
Her husband works six days a week, long hours, so that she can stay home with their kids and I just see it all as sabotaging his efforts for their family.
-
Years ago, I started a new job and one of my coworkers asked me to meet her for a chat in the lunchroom. I thought it was work related but no, it was a pitch for her MLM though I forget what it was. Turns out that workplace was a hotbed of people selling everything from their kid's school fundraising to MLM's to their own side business (one guy did have his own brand of barbeque sauce that was quite good tbh). You were constantly approached by someone hawking their wares, whether it was to contribute to something, buy something or go in with someone on something, and it was disruptive enough that the company finally enacted a policy restricting it, not forbidding it outright, but their restrictions had the same result. A lot of griping and grumbling but it was a relief to me as I was one of the few mustachian people to say no to everything and now it saved me the trouble.
I never go to things like Tupperware parties these days, in fact, I can count doing it only twice. Once in college just to experience it (still have the breadbasket I bought at that party) and another time a few years ago when a friend hosted a Pampered Chef party. I only did the latter strictly to support my friend who lost her newborn grandchild recently and the party was a way to take her mind off things, so I decided this was not the time to be a party pooper.
-
I like books, but my kids go to the library and honestly if I'm going to buy something it's going to be at our local used bookstore or Costco.
Kills me how many people don't use the library. My sister's husband commented when he was here over the summer that, "You're the only non-parent adult I know that actually uses the library." I just shook my head at that, it seems to him that the only reason anyone would use the library is to get the endless children's books. I read over 60 books a year and would quickly run out of shelf space if I bought a tenth of them. This also explains why he and his wife (my sister) think it would be insane for me to retire on anything less than a $5M nest egg.
-
A friend of mine just switched from Isagenix to Usborne Books. She posted on facebook yesterday that if she gets X amount more in orders placed she won't have to pay for her 'kit'. She had a couple people help her out and then next thing I know she's inviting me to an online party. Ugh.
If you require the charity of others to break even as a milestone, you might want to rethink your business strategy.
-
A friend of mine just switched from Isagenix to Usborne Books. She posted on facebook yesterday that if she gets X amount more in orders placed she won't have to pay for her 'kit'. She had a couple people help her out and then next thing I know she's inviting me to an online party. Ugh.
I like books, but my kids go to the library and honestly if I'm going to buy something it's going to be at our local used bookstore or Costco.
I got invited to one of those stupid online "parties" for Usborne. I didn't even bother explaining that books are a waste of money. My 2 year olds just rip them apart (yes, even the board books). Books clutter our home and we tend to read, then donate. If I need to get children books I get them from the library when they are older. It cost ZERO dollars to rent from the library. Usborne requires you to get monthly shipments and you pay around $50 a month for a "book club membership" that's about $600 because you're in a contract for at least a year. I couldn't be more stupid than to budget $600 this year just for purchasing books.
-
A friend of mine just switched from Isagenix to Usborne Books. She posted on facebook yesterday that if she gets X amount more in orders placed she won't have to pay for her 'kit'. She had a couple people help her out and then next thing I know she's inviting me to an online party. Ugh.
I like books, but my kids go to the library and honestly if I'm going to buy something it's going to be at our local used bookstore or Costco.
I got invited to one of those stupid online "parties" for Usborne. I didn't even bother explaining that books are a waste of money. My 2 year olds just rip them apart (yes, even the board books). Books clutter our home and we tend to read, then donate. If I need to get children books I get them from the library when they are older. It cost ZERO dollars to rent from the library. Usborne requires you to get monthly shipments and you pay around $50 a month for a "book club membership" that's about $600 because you're in a contract for at least a year. I couldn't be more stupid than to budget $600 this year just for purchasing books.
My cousin got into the Usborne books thing right when she had a baby. I felt a little bad for her, as she had gotten laid off from her teaching job RIGHT when she was going on maternity leave. (Private Catholic school with shitty nuns in charge. They let a few people go, replaced them, they quit in protest...anyway, it's a huge mess and 2 years later they are talking about shutting down the school.)
Anyway, my younger son is 3 years older, so great time to buy books! Except: no. We still had all the kiddie books from kid #1 (mostly gifts and hand me downs), AND we signed him up for the Dolly Parton reading library thing. We've got shelves and shelves of kid books that are great. We read to him, he's 5 and starting to read on his own. Love them. If I remember correctly we didn't start hitting up the library with kid #1 until second grade when he mowed through all of the Magic Treehouse that we'd bought or received (30 of them) and then started getting them from the library.
-
Kills me how many people don't use the library. My sister's husband commented when he was here over the summer that, "You're the only non-parent adult I know that actually uses the library." I just shook my head at that, it seems to him that the only reason anyone would use the library is to get the endless children's books. I read over 60 books a year and would quickly run out of shelf space if I bought a tenth of them. This also explains why he and his wife (my sister) think it would be insane for me to retire on anything less than a $5M nest egg.
One of the things I miss most about working in higher ed is access to the campus library. Not only was it already well-stocked, but they had a budget specifically for faculty and staff requests; literally any book I wanted, I just had to email the ISBN to a librarian and I'd have it in a week or less. Amazing.
-
I know a lady who is a "Beach Body Coach". She posts a lot of workout selfies and hosts "accountability groups", but doesn't push the selling anything, and is honest that if you're going to ask for a recommendation for a workout routine, that she's going to suggest a beach body one.
Anyway, it made me curious, so I looked up the price of the shakes. $130 for a 30 day supply. WTF?! Of course, the reasoning is "all those nutrients, you'll never get that many on your own!" That's pretty much half my grocery budget for the month (for two people, minus bulk meat). Why in the world would a shake mix be so expensive?
It's not really that expensive. What's built into the cost is that's how they pay their "coaches".
So, step #1 for a coach making money: Get someone to buy a "challenge pack" - a workout with the shakes on home delivery.
The "coach" gets a 25% commission for that. So if someone gets the shake and likes it, they get $32.50.
But wait, there's more! If the coach convinces the customer to become a coach - then the coach pays a monthly fee to be a coach but gets the 25% discount.
Thus, the "new coach" gets the shakes for $97.50 (25% discount) AND their coach gets $32.50. That brings the actual cost of the shakes down to $65.
Of course there's this whole other "bonus" schedule that I never bothered to figure out, so the actual costs of the shakes has to be much less than that in order to make a profit and pay people for having a bigger "downline".
The only reason I know some of this is because I bought a Beachbody program after kid #2 was born, and it came with the shakes. I actually really liked the program - still do it. The shakes actually tasted pretty good (but only the chocolate), and they were helpful for losing the baby weight. (Nothing magic about them, just that they made meal planning easier.) I was a coach for awhile to get the discount.
All in all, I like their workouts - they actually have a streaming service right now for approx $99 a year. I don't really know how they are going to maintain momentum for their "coaches". You can literally have access to all the workouts on line for $99 a year. No need to buy DVDs, shakes, supplements, or whatever. In the last few years I've known many coaches who have faded away and dropped out - and some were pretty successful at it. But the market got saturated, and streaming took over DVDs (at least you could make a commission on a DVD, not sure if there is any on the streaming service). It's a side gig for most, and the only people I know who still work at it are actual health professionals - certified personal trainers or nutritionists or people who own gyms or karate studios (where they can run free challenge groups).
-
A friend of mine just switched from Isagenix to Usborne Books. She posted on facebook yesterday that if she gets X amount more in orders placed she won't have to pay for her 'kit'. She had a couple people help her out and then next thing I know she's inviting me to an online party. Ugh.
I like books, but my kids go to the library and honestly if I'm going to buy something it's going to be at our local used bookstore or Costco.
I got invited to one of those stupid online "parties" for Usborne. I didn't even bother explaining that books are a waste of money. My 2 year olds just rip them apart (yes, even the board books). Books clutter our home and we tend to read, then donate. If I need to get children books I get them from the library when they are older. It cost ZERO dollars to rent from the library. Usborne requires you to get monthly shipments and you pay around $50 a month for a "book club membership" that's about $600 because you're in a contract for at least a year. I couldn't be more stupid than to budget $600 this year just for purchasing books.
It seems that people don't look at their annual property tax bills. Ours have a line item for libraries. So we're already paying for the library, so why not use it? There's tons of online resources to use too, like eBooks, magazines, etc.
-
Kills me how many people don't use the library. My sister's husband commented when he was here over the summer that, "You're the only non-parent adult I know that actually uses the library." I just shook my head at that, it seems to him that the only reason anyone would use the library is to get the endless children's books. I read over 60 books a year and would quickly run out of shelf space if I bought a tenth of them. This also explains why he and his wife (my sister) think it would be insane for me to retire on anything less than a $5M nest egg.
One of the things I miss most about working in higher ed is access to the campus library. Not only was it already well-stocked, but they had a budget specifically for faculty and staff requests; literally any book I wanted, I just had to email the ISBN to a librarian and I'd have it in a week or less. Amazing.
Yeah that's amazing! I wish my library could get any book I wanted as there are a ton that they don't stock.
I can understand someone not using the library if they are far away or their local one is inadequate but my sister's husband is a professor at an extremely well-regarded university. I'm guessing he can get access to just about any book that he, my sister, or any of their kids could want. Knowing that universities can bring in any ISBN that is requested makes me even more puzzled as to why he wouldn't take advantage of such a thing. But oh well, his money.
-
I know a lady who is a "Beach Body Coach". She posts a lot of workout selfies and hosts "accountability groups", but doesn't push the selling anything, and is honest that if you're going to ask for a recommendation for a workout routine, that she's going to suggest a beach body one.
Anyway, it made me curious, so I looked up the price of the shakes. $130 for a 30 day supply. WTF?! Of course, the reasoning is "all those nutrients, you'll never get that many on your own!" That's pretty much half my grocery budget for the month (for two people, minus bulk meat). Why in the world would a shake mix be so expensive?
It's not really that expensive.
But it is, if you're not willing to "be a coach" yourself. Which I'm not. I consider $130 for 30 shakes to be very expensive.
-
Evidently, there is an MLM that sells toothpaste?
One of the most strident MLMers I know is a nun.
The MLM toothpaste is insane. $28 a tube. Also, I don't know about the people you know selling it, but all the ones I've known who sell it will never tell you what brand it is in the ads... It's probably the only ad campaign I've ever seen where they PURPOSEFULLY do not reveal the brand name to anyone and block it out in all pictures of the product on social media. And every time anyone comments to find out more about the toothpaste, the person selling it just says "I'll message you!" My mom finally commented on one just so she could find out what the product actually was. I don't recall the name, but it was also available on Amazon and had really crappy ratings.
-
Evidently, there is an MLM that sells toothpaste?
One of the most strident MLMers I know is a nun.
The MLM toothpaste is insane. $28 a tube. Also, I don't know about the people you know selling it, but all the ones I've known who sell it will never tell you what brand it is in the ads... It's probably the only ad campaign I've ever seen where they PURPOSEFULLY do not reveal the brand name to anyone and block it out in all pictures of the product on social media. And every time anyone comments to find out more about the toothpaste, the person selling it just says "I'll message you!" My mom finally commented on one just so she could find out what the product actually was. I don't recall the name, but it was also available on Amazon and had really crappy ratings.
I did notice that pictures show it packaged in unlabelled green envelopes...
Her previous obsession was with some health food mango thing, but after a year or two, even she seems to have admitted that she is the same size as ever. The funny thing is, back in the day, I admired how she seemed more comfortable about her size than me, even though I wasn't obese then. It made me so sad to see her hawking this shit.
Makes a poor commentary on the Catholic Church, as far as I am concerned.
-
Kills me how many people don't use the library. My sister's husband commented when he was here over the summer that, "You're the only non-parent adult I know that actually uses the library." I just shook my head at that, it seems to him that the only reason anyone would use the library is to get the endless children's books. I read over 60 books a year and would quickly run out of shelf space if I bought a tenth of them. This also explains why he and his wife (my sister) think it would be insane for me to retire on anything less than a $5M nest egg.
One of the things I miss most about working in higher ed is access to the campus library. Not only was it already well-stocked, but they had a budget specifically for faculty and staff requests; literally any book I wanted, I just had to email the ISBN to a librarian and I'd have it in a week or less. Amazing.
Yeah that's amazing! I wish my library could get any book I wanted as there are a ton that they don't stock.
I can understand someone not using the library if they are far away or their local one is inadequate but my sister's husband is a professor at an extremely well-regarded university. I'm guessing he can get access to just about any book that he, my sister, or any of their kids could want. Knowing that universities can bring in any ISBN that is requested makes me even more puzzled as to why he wouldn't take advantage of such a thing. But oh well, his money.
Even my public library will take suggestions, so check with yours. They've purchased quite a few books for me that I saw on the internet and wanted, although your chances seem to be a lot better if it's nonfiction.
-
Kills me how many people don't use the library. My sister's husband commented when he was here over the summer that, "You're the only non-parent adult I know that actually uses the library." I just shook my head at that, it seems to him that the only reason anyone would use the library is to get the endless children's books. I read over 60 books a year and would quickly run out of shelf space if I bought a tenth of them. This also explains why he and his wife (my sister) think it would be insane for me to retire on anything less than a $5M nest egg.
One of the things I miss most about working in higher ed is access to the campus library. Not only was it already well-stocked, but they had a budget specifically for faculty and staff requests; literally any book I wanted, I just had to email the ISBN to a librarian and I'd have it in a week or less. Amazing.
Yeah that's amazing! I wish my library could get any book I wanted as there are a ton that they don't stock.
I can understand someone not using the library if they are far away or their local one is inadequate but my sister's husband is a professor at an extremely well-regarded university. I'm guessing he can get access to just about any book that he, my sister, or any of their kids could want. Knowing that universities can bring in any ISBN that is requested makes me even more puzzled as to why he wouldn't take advantage of such a thing. But oh well, his money.
Even my public library will take suggestions, so check with yours. They've purchased quite a few books for me that I saw on the internet and wanted, although your chances seem to be a lot better if it's nonfiction.
Our library will allow you to request a book, and then they search libraries they have partnered with for inventory. That library will send the book to our library, and then you can check it out. It takes a little while to get here, and sometimes there is a waiting list, but I'd also see if "your" local library has a system set up like this.
-
Kills me how many people don't use the library. My sister's husband commented when he was here over the summer that, "You're the only non-parent adult I know that actually uses the library." I just shook my head at that, it seems to him that the only reason anyone would use the library is to get the endless children's books. I read over 60 books a year and would quickly run out of shelf space if I bought a tenth of them. This also explains why he and his wife (my sister) think it would be insane for me to retire on anything less than a $5M nest egg.
One of the things I miss most about working in higher ed is access to the campus library. Not only was it already well-stocked, but they had a budget specifically for faculty and staff requests; literally any book I wanted, I just had to email the ISBN to a librarian and I'd have it in a week or less. Amazing.
Yeah that's amazing! I wish my library could get any book I wanted as there are a ton that they don't stock.
I can understand someone not using the library if they are far away or their local one is inadequate but my sister's husband is a professor at an extremely well-regarded university. I'm guessing he can get access to just about any book that he, my sister, or any of their kids could want. Knowing that universities can bring in any ISBN that is requested makes me even more puzzled as to why he wouldn't take advantage of such a thing. But oh well, his money.
Even my public library will take suggestions, so check with yours. They've purchased quite a few books for me that I saw on the internet and wanted, although your chances seem to be a lot better if it's nonfiction.
Our library will allow you to request a book, and then they search libraries they have partnered with for inventory. That library will send the book to our library, and then you can check it out. It takes a little while to get here, and sometimes there is a waiting list, but I'd also see if "your" local library has a system set up like this.
Yep, I worked in public libraries for a decade and very few people knew about and utilized the "inter-library loan" process. Your system may well have reciprocal borrowing agreements with others, sometimes including academic libraries. It can involve some extra effort and patience but worth exploring.
-
Kills me how many people don't use the library. My sister's husband commented when he was here over the summer that, "You're the only non-parent adult I know that actually uses the library." I just shook my head at that, it seems to him that the only reason anyone would use the library is to get the endless children's books. I read over 60 books a year and would quickly run out of shelf space if I bought a tenth of them. This also explains why he and his wife (my sister) think it would be insane for me to retire on anything less than a $5M nest egg.
One of the things I miss most about working in higher ed is access to the campus library. Not only was it already well-stocked, but they had a budget specifically for faculty and staff requests; literally any book I wanted, I just had to email the ISBN to a librarian and I'd have it in a week or less. Amazing.
Yeah that's amazing! I wish my library could get any book I wanted as there are a ton that they don't stock.
I can understand someone not using the library if they are far away or their local one is inadequate but my sister's husband is a professor at an extremely well-regarded university. I'm guessing he can get access to just about any book that he, my sister, or any of their kids could want. Knowing that universities can bring in any ISBN that is requested makes me even more puzzled as to why he wouldn't take advantage of such a thing. But oh well, his money.
Even my public library will take suggestions, so check with yours. They've purchased quite a few books for me that I saw on the internet and wanted, although your chances seem to be a lot better if it's nonfiction.
Our library will allow you to request a book, and then they search libraries they have partnered with for inventory. That library will send the book to our library, and then you can check it out. It takes a little while to get here, and sometimes there is a waiting list, but I'd also see if "your" local library has a system set up like this.
Yep, I worked in public libraries for a decade and very few people knew about and utilized the "inter-library loan" process. Your system may well have reciprocal borrowing agreements with others, sometimes including academic libraries. It can involve some extra effort and patience but worth exploring.
Yes to this! I live in a metro area and I can take my library card (received from the county I live in) to any one of 7 metro counties and check out a book. I take full advantage of this. I work in a different and much larger county than I live and the library is about 1 mile away from my job. Much closer than the "town" library from my house. I go online and reserve books in the "work" county and if the book is not shelved in the library by my work, they deliver it from a different library in the county. It's awesome!
-
My local library now charges $5.00 for an inter library loan. It used to be free. I can often find books on amazon for around the same price, so I just buy it on amazon instead.
So basically, if my library doesn't have it, I have to buy it.
-
I know a lady who is a "Beach Body Coach". She posts a lot of workout selfies and hosts "accountability groups", but doesn't push the selling anything, and is honest that if you're going to ask for a recommendation for a workout routine, that she's going to suggest a beach body one.
Anyway, it made me curious, so I looked up the price of the shakes. $130 for a 30 day supply. WTF?! Of course, the reasoning is "all those nutrients, you'll never get that many on your own!" That's pretty much half my grocery budget for the month (for two people, minus bulk meat). Why in the world would a shake mix be so expensive?
It's not really that expensive.
But it is, if you're not willing to "be a coach" yourself. Which I'm not. I consider $130 for 30 shakes to be very expensive.
Sorry, that's not what I meant. Yes, $130 / month is expensive, and so is $97.50 / month (plus the $17 coach fee!)
But the actual cost to make the shakes has got to be low. They are only "expensive" because of the "commissions" they pay coaches to get people to buy the product every month. The ingredients themselves? I doubt they are very expensive.
I even made that point long long ago and far away. Cannot even remember when or where. They "teach" coaches to frame it in a way "it's for your health", and "How much do you spend on Starbucks?"
I pointed out at the time that I was spending roughly $4 per person per day on food for my family, so asking to spend THAT AMOUNT on the equivalent of ONE MEAL (not even, it's only 160 calories), was kind of ridiculous.
-
I know a lady who is a "Beach Body Coach". She posts a lot of workout selfies and hosts "accountability groups", but doesn't push the selling anything, and is honest that if you're going to ask for a recommendation for a workout routine, that she's going to suggest a beach body one.
Anyway, it made me curious, so I looked up the price of the shakes. $130 for a 30 day supply. WTF?! Of course, the reasoning is "all those nutrients, you'll never get that many on your own!" That's pretty much half my grocery budget for the month (for two people, minus bulk meat). Why in the world would a shake mix be so expensive?
It's not really that expensive.
But it is, if you're not willing to "be a coach" yourself. Which I'm not. I consider $130 for 30 shakes to be very expensive.
Sorry, that's not what I meant. Yes, $130 / month is expensive, and so is $97.50 / month (plus the $17 coach fee!)
But the actual cost to make the shakes has got to be low. They are only "expensive" because of the "commissions" they pay coaches to get people to buy the product every month. The ingredients themselves? I doubt they are very expensive.
I even made that point long long ago and far away. Cannot even remember when or where. They "teach" coaches to frame it in a way "it's for your health", and "How much do you spend on Starbucks?"
I pointed out at the time that I was spending roughly $4 per person per day on food for my family, so asking to spend THAT AMOUNT on the equivalent of ONE MEAL (not even, it's only 160 calories), was kind of ridiculous.
Oh, yeah. I agree it's likely made dirt cheap and all the money goes to "the line" and for the top person's profit. I'll pay $40 at Costco... It's just so insanely overpriced for what it is. (sorry for the mis-interpretation, we're on the same page!)
I got the spiel that "but all that nutrition, I could never get that much on my own. It would take x number of vegetables, and x number of this, and that...!" Well, I'm sure I can grind up a multi-vitamin and add it to my own smoothie for a few extra cents.
My answer with Starbucks is $0. My "eating out" budget is less than $30/month (and I don't even touch it some months so that I can do a really nice meal out once in a while and know it's budgeted). My food budget is $250/month (sometimes I'm under, sometimes I go under). So, no, still not worth using 1/2 my budget on 1/6 of my "meals". I could increase my meal budget if I wanted, but that would mean cutting into my quilting budget, or my "save to build the house" budget, and that's not going to happen.
-
But the actual cost to make the shakes has got to be low. They are only "expensive" because of the "commissions" they pay coaches to get people to buy the product every month. The ingredients themselves? I doubt they are very expensive.
I'd bet the powdered ingredients and the packaging for the shake (plastic can that it comes in) altogether, doesn't cost more than $10.
There's no way it's worth $130. That's crazy.
-
Kills me how many people don't use the library. My sister's husband commented when he was here over the summer that, "You're the only non-parent adult I know that actually uses the library." I just shook my head at that, it seems to him that the only reason anyone would use the library is to get the endless children's books. I read over 60 books a year and would quickly run out of shelf space if I bought a tenth of them. This also explains why he and his wife (my sister) think it would be insane for me to retire on anything less than a $5M nest egg.
One of the things I miss most about working in higher ed is access to the campus library. Not only was it already well-stocked, but they had a budget specifically for faculty and staff requests; literally any book I wanted, I just had to email the ISBN to a librarian and I'd have it in a week or less. Amazing.
Yeah that's amazing! I wish my library could get any book I wanted as there are a ton that they don't stock.
I can understand someone not using the library if they are far away or their local one is inadequate but my sister's husband is a professor at an extremely well-regarded university. I'm guessing he can get access to just about any book that he, my sister, or any of their kids could want. Knowing that universities can bring in any ISBN that is requested makes me even more puzzled as to why he wouldn't take advantage of such a thing. But oh well, his money.
Even my public library will take suggestions, so check with yours. They've purchased quite a few books for me that I saw on the internet and wanted, although your chances seem to be a lot better if it's nonfiction.
Our library will allow you to request a book, and then they search libraries they have partnered with for inventory. That library will send the book to our library, and then you can check it out. It takes a little while to get here, and sometimes there is a waiting list, but I'd also see if "your" local library has a system set up like this.
+1 and I live in a rural area with a county library system that has borrowed from as far away as several hours from here for an interlibrary loan for me. It's free, and I usually get the book in 1-2 weeks as long as it's a few years old (and therefore not already on hold by lots of people at the library we might get it from).
-
I'll continue the library hijack of this thread:
Interlibrary loans are great. My local library, Sacramento Public Library, has about 30 locations. All circulating books and most other circulating media (we've had some videos that don't circulate from other branches for some reason) can be requested online for pickup at any branch. If the book is on the shelf, it usualy takes a few days.
The library is also a member of LINK+ (http://csul.iii.com/) which provides access to the circulating collection of many college and public library systems. Even LINK+ requests can be made online and usually take about a week to arrive. Late/lost item fees can be higher in the LINK+ system and renewals are more limited and take longer to process.
-
Adding to the library foam: I love my library since I can borrow books online as well and don't even have to visit the library to get the books. And that means I can travel anywhere and still get books from library. And be able to carry them all on my Kindle or phone (Kindle app). Mind= blown!!
-
My workplace hosts a crafts fair twice a year where employee's can hawk their side hustle.
I just found out that this time, Usborne Books will be offering a great deal at our next fair... Not sure how I feel about MLM invading the workplace.
-
My workplace hosts a crafts fair twice a year where employee's can hawk their side hustle.
I just found out that this time, Usborne Books will be offering a great deal at our next fair... Not sure how I feel about MLM invading the workplace.
Are Usborne books the ones like that's not my tiger etc?
We have a few but bought them from amazon I think.
-
Sorry, that's not what I meant. Yes, $130 / month is expensive, and so is $97.50 / month (plus the $17 coach fee!)
But the actual cost to make the shakes has got to be low. They are only "expensive" because of the "commissions" they pay coaches to get people to buy the product every month. The ingredients themselves? I doubt they are very expensive.
I pointed out at the time that I was spending roughly $4 per person per day on food for my family, so asking to spend THAT AMOUNT on the equivalent of ONE MEAL (not even, it's only 160 calories), was kind of ridiculous.
I don't know what is in these shakes, but I wanted to put something in perspective. $130/30 comes out to $4.33 per shake.
For $4.33 you could make a really nice smoothie at home with fresh fruits and veggies. The smoothies I make in the blender are 500-600 calories(these are big smoothies), and they contain 50-100%+ of your daily fiber, protein, potassium, calcium, other minerals, vitamins, anti-oxidants, etc.
-
Adding to the library foam: I love my library since I can borrow books online as well and don't even have to visit the library to get the books. And that means I can travel anywhere and still get books from library. And be able to carry them all on my Kindle or phone (Kindle app). Mind= blown!!
I should probably start getting books from the library more often (i.e., at all). In the past I've filled up multiple bookcases everywhere I've lived, though the last place was pretty small, so I didn't accumulate books the same way because I knew I'd have nowhere to put them. I've moved to the Kindle for Gutenberg and other public domain books I can get online for free, but for contemporary entertainment reading and other things I'm not likely to reread, using the library seems better. I don't know how good the local libraries will be at getting books through interlibrary loan, but I might as well find out, and see if I can save money and space.
On topic, I've had limited interaction with MLMs -- the only time they've touched my life is through some guy who wanted to talk about something he made out to be an opportunity related to my field, but it turned out he was trying to recruit me into Amway. I switched off at this point, let him go through the rest of his spiel, and emailed him back later to say I wasn't interested. I didn't otherwise know the guy, so that was the end of it. Seems like others here have big parts of their social network involved, though -- not surprising since you'd expect that to be how these things generally expand.
-
My workplace hosts a crafts fair twice a year where employee's can hawk their side hustle.
I just found out that this time, Usborne Books will be offering a great deal at our next fair... Not sure how I feel about MLM invading the workplace.
Are Usborne books the ones like that's not my tiger etc?
We have a few but bought them from amazon I think.
Yep. Those are Usborne. They are great books, but SO expensive.
-
My workplace hosts a crafts fair twice a year where employee's can hawk their side hustle.
I just found out that this time, Usborne Books will be offering a great deal at our next fair... Not sure how I feel about MLM invading the workplace.
Are Usborne books the ones like that's not my tiger etc?
We have a few but bought them from amazon I think.
Yep. Those are Usborne. They are great books, but SO expensive.
Just checked with my wife and she reassured me she got them all on a deal at £2 each.. phew!
Costco are great for kids stories, the often do 10 packs for 10 pounds, with books that often are retailing for 4 - 5 pounds each ( rip off)
-
For $4.33 you could make a really nice smoothie at home with fresh fruits and veggies. The smoothies I make in the blender are 500-600 calories(these are big smoothies), and they contain 50-100%+ of your daily fiber, protein, potassium, calcium, other minerals, vitamins, anti-oxidants, etc.
Yeah, but that's a lot of effort. The pre-fab way is fast and EASY! /sarcasm. Just in case it's not completely obvious.
-
My local library now charges $5.00 for an inter library loan. It used to be free.
You poor thing! I would have to move, revolt, or run for library board. That would be a game-changer.
-
My local library now charges $5.00 for an inter library loan. It used to be free.
You poor thing! I would have to move, revolt, or run for library board. That would be a game-changer.
Yea, it's a bummer but in some ways, I agree with their decision to start charging for that. There were a lot of people abusing the library services in various ways, for a long time. They also started charging $50 for a library card for non-residents.
-
My local library now charges $5.00 for an inter library loan. It used to be free.
You poor thing! I would have to move, revolt, or run for library board. That would be a game-changer.
Yea, it's a bummer but in some ways, I agree with their decision to start charging for that. There were a lot of people abusing the library services in various ways, for a long time. They also started charging $50 for a library card for non-residents.
Keeping the foam going...
I try to only ask for 3-4 interlibrary loans a year (I probably check out about 20 books a year) to prevent me going over any sort of threshold of too much hassle. I don't know where the line is, but I am wary of crossing it in order to avoid this exact situation.
-
http://www.king5.com/news/they-bought-into-lularoe-to-make-money-now-theyre-leaving-in-debt/477718629 (http://www.king5.com/news/they-bought-into-lularoe-to-make-money-now-theyre-leaving-in-debt/477718629)
Surprise surprise, being a leggings consultant isn't a good "business" idea. can we talk about this $10k start up cost?! I thought Mary Kay was ridiculous with people spending a few hundred bucks to start up, but wow LuLaRoe blows them out of the water! How and why do people think this is a good idea? When people are being asked to buy thousands of dollars in clothing to "start up", why arent alarm bells not going off in their heads? Like "How likely is it that I can continuously sell hundreds of over priced leggings out of my home while also competing with malls and online shopping, both of which are cheaper and more accessible?"
On a side note, how do I convince people to buy $10k worth of made in China crap from me to "start their own business" lol
-
My local library now charges $5.00 for an inter library loan. It used to be free.
You poor thing! I would have to move, revolt, or run for library board. That would be a game-changer.
Yea, it's a bummer but in some ways, I agree with their decision to start charging for that. There were a lot of people abusing the library services in various ways, for a long time. They also started charging $50 for a library card for non-residents.
Keeping the foam going...
I try to only ask for 3-4 interlibrary loans a year (I probably check out about 20 books a year) to prevent me going over any sort of threshold of too much hassle. I don't know where the line is, but I am wary of crossing it in order to avoid this exact situation.
My spouse was probably one of their biggest offenders for a while, with inter-library loans. He'd get dozens of them at a time, then often, forget to go pick up the books once they came in. IMO, made a lot of unnecessary work for librarians.
Our local library also, used to not place limits on how many DVDs that a patron could check out. I was behind someone in line one day checking out over 100 DVDs. All at one time. So now, they do place limits on how many items can be checked out at one time, by one person. But it was crazy for them not to have that rule before. If I worked at a library, I'd get frustrated seeing people take advantage.
-
http://www.king5.com/news/they-bought-into-lularoe-to-make-money-now-theyre-leaving-in-debt/477718629 (http://www.king5.com/news/they-bought-into-lularoe-to-make-money-now-theyre-leaving-in-debt/477718629)
Surprise surprise, being a leggings consultant isn't a good "business" idea. can we talk about this $10k start up cost?! I thought Mary Kay was ridiculous with people spending a few hundred bucks to start up, but wow LuLaRoe blows them out of the water! How and why do people think this is a good idea?
They aren't smart enough to realize that they are the customer. Not a business owner or an entrepreneur. But a customer, who just bought $10,000 worth of stuff from a business.
Does anyone here ever talked to your children about MLMs? I plan to talk to my kids once they get to be teenagers so they'll understand . As part of their financial literacy education.
-
http://www.king5.com/news/they-bought-into-lularoe-to-make-money-now-theyre-leaving-in-debt/477718629 (http://www.king5.com/news/they-bought-into-lularoe-to-make-money-now-theyre-leaving-in-debt/477718629)
Surprise surprise, being a leggings consultant isn't a good "business" idea. can we talk about this $10k start up cost?! I thought Mary Kay was ridiculous with people spending a few hundred bucks to start up, but wow LuLaRoe blows them out of the water! How and why do people think this is a good idea?
They aren't smart enough to realize that they are the customer. Not a business owner or an entrepreneur. But a customer, who just bought $10,000 worth of stuff from a business.
Does anyone here ever talked to your children about MLMs? I plan to talk to my kids once they get to be teenagers so they'll understand . As part of their financial literacy education.
I think that's a fantastic idea, Chelseygirl. My son is way too young (2), but definitely worth teaching older kids about it! I used to enjoy tagging along to Pampered Chef and candle parties with my mom as a preteen, but definitely didn't understand the structure. Thankfully it wasn't something I encountered much of, until I married an active duty servicemember. Then I couldn't escape it.
Re, the up-front cost: my understanding is that they spin it as "all businesses require an initial investment". Which they do, but (as is clear to all of us here) this is isn't starting one's own business.
-
When I was out of college, and living on my own, my dad sort of tried to warn me about "salespeople trying to sell things" I'm pretty sure he was referring to MLMs.
I plan to talk to my kids earlier about this, once they are teenagers; maybe even show them some documentaries on MLMs and how they are scams. The earlier they learn about it, the better.
-
http://www.king5.com/news/they-bought-into-lularoe-to-make-money-now-theyre-leaving-in-debt/477718629 (http://www.king5.com/news/they-bought-into-lularoe-to-make-money-now-theyre-leaving-in-debt/477718629)
Surprise surprise, being a leggings consultant isn't a good "business" idea. can we talk about this $10k start up cost?! I thought Mary Kay was ridiculous with people spending a few hundred bucks to start up, but wow LuLaRoe blows them out of the water! How and why do people think this is a good idea? When people are being asked to buy thousands of dollars in clothing to "start up", why arent alarm bells not going off in their heads? Like "How likely is it that I can continuously sell hundreds of over priced leggings out of my home while also competing with malls and online shopping, both of which are cheaper and more accessible?"
On a side note, how do I convince people to buy $10k worth of made in China crap from me to "start their own business" lol
And the person convincing you it's so much fun and so profitable is already well established in that neighborhood.
-
http://www.king5.com/news/they-bought-into-lularoe-to-make-money-now-theyre-leaving-in-debt/477718629 (http://www.king5.com/news/they-bought-into-lularoe-to-make-money-now-theyre-leaving-in-debt/477718629)
Surprise surprise, being a leggings consultant isn't a good "business" idea. can we talk about this $10k start up cost?! I thought Mary Kay was ridiculous with people spending a few hundred bucks to start up, but wow LuLaRoe blows them out of the water! How and why do people think this is a good idea?
They aren't smart enough to realize that they are the customerproduct. Not a business owner or an entrepreneur. But a customerproduct, who just bought $10,000 worth of stuff from a business.
Does anyone here ever talked to your children about MLMs? I plan to talk to my kids once they get to be teenagers so they'll understand . As part of their financial literacy education.
FTFY
It's not the leggings that get sold... it's the people
-
Not sure if it has been posted but I just saw this on TV. I automatically thought of this thread and it made me smile.
This is Boss Life
https://youtu.be/KWbWJ8xweUg
Oh, yes, thanks for adding that one here! I saw a couple variations of this Avon commercial when I was visiting someone in LA in June. I didn't even know Avon still made TV commercials.
-
http://www.king5.com/news/they-bought-into-lularoe-to-make-money-now-theyre-leaving-in-debt/477718629 (http://www.king5.com/news/they-bought-into-lularoe-to-make-money-now-theyre-leaving-in-debt/477718629)
Surprise surprise, being a leggings consultant isn't a good "business" idea. can we talk about this $10k start up cost?! I thought Mary Kay was ridiculous with people spending a few hundred bucks to start up, but wow LuLaRoe blows them out of the water! How and why do people think this is a good idea? When people are being asked to buy thousands of dollars in clothing to "start up", why arent alarm bells not going off in their heads? Like "How likely is it that I can continuously sell hundreds of over priced leggings out of my home while also competing with malls and online shopping, both of which are cheaper and more accessible?"
On a side note, how do I convince people to buy $10k worth of made in China crap from me to "start their own business" lol
Most of them do online sales, via Facebook. Not that I'm defending the business model, but I think very few just sell out of there home, and in fact parties seem to be the smallest portion of the business.
-
LulaRoe Leggings are a saturated market. So it doesn't matter if they sell online too, or a combination of online and parties. It's saturated. They are going to lose money. I suspect a lot of them want to jump on what they see as a popular trend, but it's too popular. That means it is saturated.
-
It's already happening. I'm part of a Facebook city chat group and I've had three different people post this week that they are going out of business and are selling their stock ($15 for dresses and $10 for leggings). I'm guessing that's the price they paid any they want to recoup the cost. But the leggings they have look so hideous that no one is buying them. Pretty sad when you think about it.
-
I'm at a women's leadership conference. The speakers are all amazing executives and entrepreneurs, over 70% of the "exhibitors" are MLMs.
-
I'm at a women's leadership conference. The speakers are all amazing executives and entrepreneurs, over 70% of the "exhibitors" are MLMs.
:(
I went to a h.s. reunion last night. Guess what kinds of business cards I came home with?
-
http://www.king5.com/news/they-bought-into-lularoe-to-make-money-now-theyre-leaving-in-debt/477718629 (http://www.king5.com/news/they-bought-into-lularoe-to-make-money-now-theyre-leaving-in-debt/477718629)
Surprise surprise, being a leggings consultant isn't a good "business" idea. can we talk about this $10k start up cost?! I thought Mary Kay was ridiculous with people spending a few hundred bucks to start up, but wow LuLaRoe blows them out of the water! How and why do people think this is a good idea?
They aren't smart enough to realize that they are the customer. Not a business owner or an entrepreneur. But a customer, who just bought $10,000 worth of stuff from a business.
Does anyone here ever talked to your children about MLMs? I plan to talk to my kids once they get to be teenagers so they'll understand . As part of their financial literacy education.
Clearly there is good money to be made selling Lularoe memberships. At that price for entry selling the actual product seems ancillary.
-
Sorry, that's not what I meant. Yes, $130 / month is expensive, and so is $97.50 / month (plus the $17 coach fee!)
But the actual cost to make the shakes has got to be low. They are only "expensive" because of the "commissions" they pay coaches to get people to buy the product every month. The ingredients themselves? I doubt they are very expensive.
I pointed out at the time that I was spending roughly $4 per person per day on food for my family, so asking to spend THAT AMOUNT on the equivalent of ONE MEAL (not even, it's only 160 calories), was kind of ridiculous.
I don't know what is in these shakes, but I wanted to put something in perspective. $130/30 comes out to $4.33 per shake.
For $4.33 you could make a really nice smoothie at home with fresh fruits and veggies. The smoothies I make in the blender are 500-600 calories(these are big smoothies), and they contain 50-100%+ of your daily fiber, protein, potassium, calcium, other minerals, vitamins, anti-oxidants, etc.
Hey Indexer- care to share a recipe or two? I currently do breakfast smoothies, but something with enough good cals to take me through lunch would be awesome!
-
It's already happening. I'm part of a Facebook city chat group and I've had three different people post this week that they are going out of business and are selling their stock ($15 for dresses and $10 for leggings). I'm guessing that's the price they paid any they want to recoup the cost. But the leggings they have look so hideous that no one is buying them. Pretty sad when you think about it.
I have to admit, I've been watching this particular train-wreck for a while, and LLR seems just about ready to implode. Tons of Facebook pages out there devoted to the glaringly bad defects and cheap quality of this clothing, not to mention all the GOOB pages popping up (GOOB= going out of business), adding a ton more competition to the consultants who are still trying to hawk their wears for whatever ridiculous MSRP that LLR tells them to sell for.
The policy change indicated in the article occurred b/c LLR got slammed with over $50 million in returns. Not to mention many consultants who return items that LLR deems to be unfit for sale, and they won't return or credit the consultant for a penny, which increases the risk of returning and getting nothing for your trouble. So, the best way to liquidate is to set up a GOOB sale, and the downward spiral continues!
I just did a quick check on eBay, and there's over 191,000 listings active right now. Even the GOOB sellers are being undercut. It's fascinating to watch. My guess is LLR goes under in 6-12 mo.
-
My guess is LLR goes under in 6-12 mo.
I'm always surprised at how resilient MLMs can be: when a market gets saturated, they let it cool down for a few years by moving their efforts to another country/continent. Another strategy is to launch new products regularly and make the older products "obsolete" one way or another to make eBay sales impossible (so when politicians ban a given chemical contained in some MLM product, they actually help the MLM).
A popular Aloe goop mlm have been going on for 40 years, using some of the strategies above.
-
Not an MLM, but along the same lines.
An old High School friend set up his own insurance agency. Okay so far, so good. I see a couple of posts of Facebook saying he's open and willing to see clients. Again, no problem.
A couple weeks later I get a Facebook message saying "Hi <Name>", followed by some boilerplate stuff, ending with a request to have a meeting to discuss insurance options.
This was pretty obnoxious, as we had not talked in a couple of years, but I let it go.
Then I got wind from my family that my sister, who had a debilitating stroke five years ago and lives with our folks, got the same message.
I know he just used a script to message all of the people on his friends list, but this really pissed me off. My dad just said that people do awful things when starting their own venture, and he has colleagues who stay up at night in horror of things they did decades ago when first starting out. Reading some of the things on this thread, that rings true.
-
My guess is LLR goes under in 6-12 mo.
I'm always surprised at how resilient MLMs can be: when a market gets saturated, they let it cool down for a few years by moving their efforts to another country/continent. Another strategy is to launch new products regularly and make the older products "obsolete" one way or another to make eBay sales impossible (so when politicians ban a given chemical contained in some MLM product, they actually help the MLM).
A popular Aloe goop mlm have been going on for 40 years, using some of the strategies above.
That's true, and from what I understand, LLR has already created a few sister brands, one being Honey & Lace, I think. Which in the wake of the LLR return debacle, re-branded itself to P!phany. My guess is this is an effort to distance itself from what's coming, and it sounds like some of the LLR consultants are moving over to the new brands (there are a few, I just don't care to know them all). So yes, LLR will likely continue in some fashion, I have no doubt that the people in charge of this will jump ship to a new version once the sh*t hits the fan, and sadly, a large portion of their consultants will just follow along.
-
P!phany?
Are you effing kidding me?
(Edit: Google tells me they changed it because it was testing as the name of a lingerie company. That makes sense. I just read it as Mormon because they have a thing with bees, and "Grace and Lace" is the name of a heavily Christian clothing company. But that still doesn't explain why they changed it to such a ridiculous name.)
-
It's already happening. I'm part of a Facebook city chat group and I've had three different people post this week that they are going out of business and are selling their stock ($15 for dresses and $10 for leggings). I'm guessing that's the price they paid any they want to recoup the cost. But the leggings they have look so hideous that no one is buying them. Pretty sad when you think about it.
I have to admit, I've been watching this particular train-wreck for a while, and LLR seems just about ready to implode. Tons of Facebook pages out there devoted to the glaringly bad defects and cheap quality of this clothing, not to mention all the GOOB pages popping up (GOOB= going out of business), adding a ton more competition to the consultants who are still trying to hawk their wears for whatever ridiculous MSRP that LLR tells them to sell for.
The policy change indicated in the article occurred b/c LLR got slammed with over $50 million in returns. Not to mention many consultants who return items that LLR deems to be unfit for sale, and they won't return or credit the consultant for a penny, which increases the risk of returning and getting nothing for your trouble. So, the best way to liquidate is to set up a GOOB sale, and the downward spiral continues!
I just did a quick check on eBay, and there's over 191,000 listings active right now. Even the GOOB sellers are being undercut. It's fascinating to watch. My guess is LLR goes under in 6-12 mo.
I feel lucky to have missed this train. I'm maybe a bit too old for the demographic. I got my first LLR invite just this year, when it was already starting to implode.
-
P!phany?
Are you effing kidding me?
(Edit: Google tells me they changed it because it was testing as the name of a lingerie company. That makes sense. I just read it as Mormon because they have a thing with bees, and "Grace and Lace" is the name of a heavily Christian clothing company. But that still doesn't explain why they changed it to such a ridiculous name.)
Pippa is swedish for an activity for two, or more, adults that love each other very, very much.
Maybe they decided to go international?
-
Had a coworker here selling It Works! It Works is some kind of green powdered supplement. She asked if I was interested but I politely refused it. Disclaimer: I do take a powdered green supplement but I prefer to purchase mine at the store or online depending on who has the better special at the moment. The girl next to me did buy some. Last week I overheard the poor thing on the phone demanding they refund her for charges they'd loaded onto her credit card. I think she made one purchase and they kept billing her I haven't had the guts to ask.
Anyone here heard of It Works?
-
Had a coworker here selling It Works! It Works is some kind of green powdered supplement. She asked if I was interested but I politely refused it. Disclaimer: I do take a powdered green supplement but I prefer to purchase mine at the store or online depending on who has the better special at the moment. The girl next to me did buy some. Last week I overheard the poor thing on the phone demanding they refund her for charges they'd loaded onto her credit card. I think she made one purchase and they kept billing her I haven't had the guts to ask.
Anyone here heard of It Works?
Yep, we had a cousin into that. The big sell was "wraps" that you wrap around pieces of your body to "melt fat off."
If that worked it would definitely be super healthy, right?? /sarcasm
(She stopped selling them eventually after buying a lot of inventory that she couldn't get rid of. She really wanted to help support her family and had good intentions...but she moved on to selling "toxin-free" makeup. Her husband emailed all family & friends asking them to please buy her makeup as she wanted to be a SAHM. I wrote back saying that I understood the desire, but our financial planning for eventual kids involved not paying for unnecessary expenses, so we wouldn't be ordering, and hoped they understood. Apparently I was the only one to respond at all...so that makeup went away too. Now she's off the MLM train but the rest of the family is selling Younique, cluttering every social feed with not only the makeup posts but also many posts purely designed to improve their algorithms so that the makeup posts will find a wide audience, like "which bag should I buy, a or b??" I find it an annoying erosion of our social contract, but they claim to be making lots of money so I don't see it going away anytime soon.)
-
Had a coworker here selling It Works! It Works is some kind of green powdered supplement. She asked if I was interested but I politely refused it. Disclaimer: I do take a powdered green supplement but I prefer to purchase mine at the store or online depending on who has the better special at the moment. The girl next to me did buy some. Last week I overheard the poor thing on the phone demanding they refund her for charges they'd loaded onto her credit card. I think she made one purchase and they kept billing her I haven't had the guts to ask.
Anyone here heard of It Works?
They started of as thinning wraps and branched out into hokey supplements. One seller I know has recently moved onto a vinyl transfer business. She is using everything she learned from MLM, so I only see her kids on Facebook when they are modelling something she made.
-
Regarding the herbal and alternative medicines, remedies, etc. I'll just leave this here:
https://arstechnica.com/science/2017/10/herbal-remedies-embraced-by-naturopaths-alt-med-widely-linked-to-liver-cancers/
Here's the source article: http://stm.sciencemag.org/content/9/412/eaan6446/tab-pdf
-
also many posts purely designed to improve their algorithms so that the makeup posts will find a wide audience, like "which bag should I buy, a or b??"
OH! I knew there was a reason for these types of posts but I didn't understand what they were for. They drive me nuts. I never answer because I figured if I did, they would just try to hit me up to buy something in the future, but they still annoy me.
-
but also many posts purely designed to improve their algorithms so that the makeup posts will find a wide audience, like "which bag should I buy, a or b??"
I have a Facebook friend who does this. Had no idea that it was for this purpose.
-
It's already happening. I'm part of a Facebook city chat group and I've had three different people post this week that they are going out of business and are selling their stock ($15 for dresses and $10 for leggings). I'm guessing that's the price they paid any they want to recoup the cost. But the leggings they have look so hideous that no one is buying them. Pretty sad when you think about it.
I have to admit, I've been watching this particular train-wreck for a while, and LLR seems just about ready to implode. Tons of Facebook pages out there devoted to the glaringly bad defects and cheap quality of this clothing, not to mention all the GOOB pages popping up (GOOB= going out of business), adding a ton more competition to the consultants who are still trying to hawk their wears for whatever ridiculous MSRP that LLR tells them to sell for.
The policy change indicated in the article occurred b/c LLR got slammed with over $50 million in returns. Not to mention many consultants who return items that LLR deems to be unfit for sale, and they won't return or credit the consultant for a penny, which increases the risk of returning and getting nothing for your trouble. So, the best way to liquidate is to set up a GOOB sale, and the downward spiral continues!
I just did a quick check on eBay, and there's over 191,000 listings active right now. Even the GOOB sellers are being undercut. It's fascinating to watch. My guess is LLR goes under in 6-12 mo.
I don't find Yahoo.com to be a great source of news, but there is no doubt it is mainstream and reaches a massive audience:
https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/new-lularoe-lawsuit-calls-leggings-giant-pyramid-scheme-end-184529361.html
-
also many posts purely designed to improve their algorithms so that the makeup posts will find a wide audience, like "which bag should I buy, a or b??"
OH! I knew there was a reason for these types of posts but I didn't understand what they were for. They drive me nuts. I never answer because I figured if I did, they would just try to hit me up to buy something in the future, but they still annoy me.
I'm told it's because Facebook shows your posts to more people if you tend to get lots of comments, so they post "a or b" things to increase engagement. Then the selling posts have more eyeballs. I should not care but do find it annoying!
-
also many posts purely designed to improve their algorithms so that the makeup posts will find a wide audience, like "which bag should I buy, a or b??"
OH! I knew there was a reason for these types of posts but I didn't understand what they were for. They drive me nuts. I never answer because I figured if I did, they would just try to hit me up to buy something in the future, but they still annoy me.
I'm told it's because Facebook shows your posts to more people if you tend to get lots of comments, so they post "a or b" things to increase engagement. Then the selling posts have more eyeballs. I should not care but do find it annoying!
This is why you can have 200 friends on Facebook, but only ever see updates from 10 of them. Facebook also has a honeymoon period where you'll see everything a new friend has to say, but if you don't interact with them they'll drop to the bottom of the pile after a while.
-
Had a coworker here selling It Works! It Works is some kind of green powdered supplement. She asked if I was interested but I politely refused it. Disclaimer: I do take a powdered green supplement but I prefer to purchase mine at the store or online depending on who has the better special at the moment. The girl next to me did buy some. Last week I overheard the poor thing on the phone demanding they refund her for charges they'd loaded onto her credit card. I think she made one purchase and they kept billing her I haven't had the guts to ask.
Anyone here heard of It Works?
Yes. My cousin was using the wraps. I don't think she was selling them. I don't think they worked. At least not any better than the exercise she was also doing.
also many posts purely designed to improve their algorithms so that the makeup posts will find a wide audience, like "which bag should I buy, a or b??"
OH! I knew there was a reason for these types of posts but I didn't understand what they were for. They drive me nuts. I never answer because I figured if I did, they would just try to hit me up to buy something in the future, but they still annoy me.
I'm told it's because Facebook shows your posts to more people if you tend to get lots of comments, so they post "a or b" things to increase engagement. Then the selling posts have more eyeballs. I should not care but do find it annoying!
This is why you can have 200 friends on Facebook, but only ever see updates from 10 of them. Facebook also has a honeymoon period where you'll see everything a new friend has to say, but if you don't interact with them they'll drop to the bottom of the pile after a while.
That explains why I constantly see stuff my aunts post and not new posts from other friends. In amongst all the ads that is. They always like and comment on my posts so I feel obliged to like theirs too.
-
As a male of more than middle-aged years I have been largely insulated from the MLM pitches. Lately a facebook friend has been trying very hard to interest me in Arbonne. No idea what it is, I really have no interest.
I'm thinking about unfriending her.
-
As a male of more than middle-aged years I have been largely insulated from the MLM pitches. Lately a facebook friend has been trying very hard to interest me in Arbonne. No idea what it is, I really have no interest.
I'm thinking about unfriending her.
Here I was thinking Argonne National Lab has an MLM venture.
-
A long, depressing read:
https://qz.com/1039331/mlms-like-avon-and-lularoe-are-sending-people-into-debt-and-psychological-crisis/
Thank you for this link. a very useful read.
posting to follow.
-
As a male of more than middle-aged years I have been largely insulated from the MLM pitches. Lately a facebook friend has been trying very hard to interest me in Arbonne. No idea what it is, I really have no interest.
I'm thinking about unfriending her.
Arbonne is expensive skin care products, as far as I know. Their "anti aging set" of skin products retails for around $400. Perhaps they think older people are a good market for these products. I really don't know!
They don't care how old or young someone is, they'll pitch to them anyway or try to recruit them. Lots of people even recruit their own parents and grandparents.
-
I didn't know that Arbonne was a MLM. A few years back I asked a friend what whey protein he used and he said Arbonne. I looked it up and saw that it was over $60 for 2 pounds and passed. For that price they better eliminate any possibility of getting DOMS
-
HMM, don't MLM's usually need a city business license to run a business, especially with on-line and sales components, out of their home? You have me thinking...
Sad thing is, if they did need a business license, MLM hucksters would just use that help rope in recruits and make them feel more "official". "And here are the forms you need for your business license...you'll need one since you're starting your own business.."
Followed by the victim who just got taken for a couple of grand recruit posting on facebook " I just got my business license! I'm an entrepreneur running my own business now!" #CEObusinessowner :)
-
I know some previous commenters have brought up the Lularoe returns policy change fiasco, but in case you missed it, that controversy has now led to a class action lawsuit: http://www.businessinsider.com/lularoe-called-pyramid-scheme-by-sellers-2017-10 The suit was filed on October 13, but I didn't see a mention of it in this thread yet.
-
I was just invited, in Brazil, to a MLM thing based on consuption and selling of RICE AND BEANS (???)
Thay say basically to stop buying what you would usually buy in a supermarket, and instead buying in their market, and invite friends to do the same and collect profits on their purchases.
I'm still confused, never heard of it before.
-
I was just invited, in Brazil, to a MLM thing based on consuption and selling of RICE AND BEANS (???)
Thay say basically to stop buying what you would usually buy in a supermarket, in their market, and invite friends to do the same and collect profits on their purchases.
I'm still confused, never heard of it before.
They claim they are better than other companies because you don't have to "sell" anything, just consume what you already consume... but you have recruitment quotas to receive your profits.
-
I was just invited, in Brazil, to a MLM thing based on consuption and selling of RICE AND BEANS (???)
Thay say basically to stop buying what you would usually buy in a supermarket, in their market, and invite friends to do the same and collect profits on their purchases.
I'm still confused, never heard of it before.
They claim they are better than other companies because you don't have to "sell" anything, just consume what you already consume... but you have recruitment quotas to receive your profits.
I see that the Amway/Quixtar model is truly well and alive.
i was asked in 1999 to join and buy bulk TP. How much does a single college kid need when you do all your #2 on campus?
-
I was just invited, in Brazil, to a MLM thing based on consuption and selling of RICE AND BEANS (???)
Thay say basically to stop buying what you would usually buy in a supermarket, in their market, and invite friends to do the same and collect profits on their purchases.
I'm still confused, never heard of it before.
They claim they are better than other companies because you don't have to "sell" anything, just consume what you already consume... but you have recruitment quotas to receive your profits.
I see that the Amway/Quixtar model is truly well and alive.
i was asked in 1999 to join and buy bulk TP. How much does a single college kid need when you do all your #2 on campus?
Yes, I'm currently reading Merchants of Deception, and this is EXACTLY the Amway model.
-
[Yeah that's amazing! I wish my library could get any book I wanted as there are a ton that they don't stock.
They pretty much can. It's called "ILL" for Inter-Library Loan.
You tell the ILL librarian what book you want, they put in a request and some time later (a week or months) it shows up and they loan it to you. Takes time, but they can do it.
-
[Yeah that's amazing! I wish my library could get any book I wanted as there are a ton that they don't stock.
They pretty much can. It's called "ILL" for Inter-Library Loan.
You tell the ILL librarian what book you want, they put in a request and some time later (a week or months) it shows up and they loan it to you. Takes time, but they can do it.
My library charges $3 per ILL request (whether they can fulfill it or not). Another city I lived in charged $11 per ILL fulfilled.
-
It costs libraries something like $10-15 to fill a single ILL request, counting staff time on both ends plus return shipping costs. (I refer to true ILL requests here, not requests that are filled by other libraries within the same system, which benefit much more from economies of scale.)
It's a great service, and people should absolutely feel free to use it when the local collection doesn't fill their needs. I wouldn't personally mind paying a $3 fee, given that it's not even close to covering the cost of the service, but I'd be a bit concerned about it for other reasons. If a public library feels it has to charge for this service, that's a sign it's not funded very well in general, so I might lobby my municipality for better library funding in my community. How supportive councillors are of the library can *really* vary, and is definitely affected by what they hear from voters.
[ETA: well-run / well-funded libraries do keep the cost of ILL in mind when looking at a request, and if it's for a book that's currently in print, they may just buy a copy, especially if it looks like an item others might be interested in too. ILL requests from patrons are treated a bit like purchase suggestions, in terms of collection development.]
-
If a public library feels it has to charge for this service, that's a sign it's not funded very well in general, so I might lobby my municipality for better library funding in my community. How supportive councillors are of the library can *really* vary, and is definitely affected by what they hear from voters.
We have an amazing library (especially for kids books and adult best sellers), with great programming- but there is a limit to how much it can do with a population under 20,000.
The library does have almost 400 cake pans you can check out though. That's pretty cool.
-
If a public library feels it has to charge for this service, that's a sign it's not funded very well in general, so I might lobby my municipality for better library funding in my community. How supportive councillors are of the library can *really* vary, and is definitely affected by what they hear from voters.
We have an amazing library (especially for kids books and adult best sellers), with great programming- but there is a limit to how much it can do with a population under 20,000.
The library does have almost 400 cake pans you can check out though. That's pretty cool.
I should probably have been a little more nuanced there; I'd take it in context with the rest of what I see from that library, of course. :)
The cake pan collection does sound cool!
-
ugh, the other night I received a phone call from a woman I haven't seen much in the last year. I did not pick up the call at first because I did not recognize the number but she left a message. In the message she asked that I call her back because it was "important." Okay, in and of itself not unusual because I had done work for her in the past and thought something came up. NOPE. Called her back, we caught up for about 5 minutes and then she started into the monologue about something called Liv. and had I received the video she sent me a month ago over text message? and how she thought I would be a wonderful person to take advantage of these "experiences" and could she send me more links to other videos to give me more information. I've watched a few minutes of the video and for the life of me cannot figure out what the purpose of this company is. Is it an MLM or a new iteration of timeshares? I feel like I can do a lot of this stuff with my credit card points.
Guess I'm blocking her phone number going forward, which sucks because I liked this lady and it's a small town :(
http://meetliv.com/
-
The library does have almost 400 cake pans you can check out though. That's pretty cool.
I wonder if they ever get close to loaning those all out.
-
The library does have almost 400 cake pans you can check out though. That's pretty cool.
I wonder if they ever get close to loaning those all out.
Not all at once, but I know they curate the collection and get rid of the unpopular ones and pull in more popular designs.
Nearly everyone I know had checked out a pan for a birthday party or shower.
-
Also keep in mind that you may be eligible to join various library systems, sometimes for a fee, and that can expand your access considerably.
It may be worth the occasional longer drive to get a book you want and not pay a $x ILL fee, and to get it more quickly.
-
ugh, the other night I received a phone call from a woman I haven't seen much in the last year. I did not pick up the call at first because I did not recognize the number but she left a message. In the message she asked that I call her back because it was "important." Okay, in and of itself not unusual because I had done work for her in the past and thought something came up. NOPE. Called her back, we caught up for about 5 minutes and then she started into the monologue about something called Liv. and had I received the video she sent me a month ago over text message? and how she thought I would be a wonderful person to take advantage of these "experiences" and could she send me more links to other videos to give me more information. I've watched a few minutes of the video and for the life of me cannot figure out what the purpose of this company is. Is it an MLM or a new iteration of timeshares? I feel like I can do a lot of this stuff with my credit card points.
Guess I'm blocking her phone number going forward, which sucks because I liked this lady and it's a small town :(
http://meetliv.com/
I was curious so I took a look at the website. This is definitely an MLM that is masquerading as a type of vacation/event savings account. You sign up and pay an initiation fee along with a monthly membership fee, and part of the monthly fee accumulates so you can spend it in the future on vacation packages or event tickets. Like Audible but way more expensive and your whole monthly fee doesn't accumulate! They are saying "pay us $50 per month and you will get $25 per month in credits"...why would anyone do that?!
Then there is the MLM side. If you become a "promoter" you get a portion of whatever the people under you contribute (which is why when you sign up you don't get to keep your whole monthly fee - a portion goes to the uplines). It also has incentives that are really MLM heavy: be an entrepreneur, work for yourself, get paid 5x per month, get to a high enough level and get a $750 per month car allowance, etc. If you don't become a promoter buy you convince 3 others to sign up at the same level as you, you get a month free. I'm assuming your friend is either a promoter or was trying to get a free month.
-
ugh, the other night I received a phone call from a woman I haven't seen much in the last year. I did not pick up the call at first because I did not recognize the number but she left a message. In the message she asked that I call her back because it was "important." Okay, in and of itself not unusual because I had done work for her in the past and thought something came up. NOPE. Called her back, we caught up for about 5 minutes and then she started into the monologue about something called Liv.
http://meetliv.com/
I bet it was one of those pre-rehearsed, canned sales pitches.
I wonder about people who get involved in MLMs.
Neither one of my parents had a college education, but they knew better than to get involved in scams. But I see people with business degrees getting hooked into them and I have to wonder about that. You'd think someone with the advantage of more education would know better.
-
ugh, the other night I received a phone call from a woman I haven't seen much in the last year. I did not pick up the call at first because I did not recognize the number but she left a message. In the message she asked that I call her back because it was "important." Okay, in and of itself not unusual because I had done work for her in the past and thought something came up. NOPE. Called her back, we caught up for about 5 minutes and then she started into the monologue about something called Liv.
http://meetliv.com/
I bet it was one of those pre-rehearsed, canned sales pitches.
I wonder about people who get involved in MLMs.
Neither one of my parents had a college education, but they knew better than to get involved in scams. But I see people with business degrees getting hooked into them and I have to wonder about that. You'd think someone with the advantage of more education would know better.
That all depends on what you're supposed to learn in a Business Degree program. How to run a business and how not to get snookered by too-good-to-be-true with a dash of emotional manipulation are not the same thing.
-
I bet it was one of those pre-rehearsed, canned sales pitches.
Yep it was. Completely unauthentic. I dot. Know what upsets me more, the fact that she thought I’d be interested in this scam or the fact that she used our prior working relationship to get me to call her back (by leaving a message asking me to call because it was “important”). Can’t wait for her to call me back to give me a pitch to be a promoter /s
-
I bet it was one of those pre-rehearsed, canned sales pitches.
Yep it was. Completely unauthentic. I dot. Know what upsets me more, the fact that she thought I’d be interested in this scam or the fact that she used our prior working relationship to get me to call her back (by leaving a message asking me to call because it was “important”). Can’t wait for her to call me back to give me a pitch to be a promoter /s
URG! Yeah I've had acquaintances call me and leave a voicemail asking for me to "call them back" without bothering to specify precisely why. It's gotten to the point where if someone I know on Facebook or was friends with at some point years ago calls and leaves a VM without saying why they called I will generally ignore it. Far too often it's them asking for a MLM or some other venture that I have no interest in. My favorite are people that were too busy for me a year or so ago but now that they need rubes to sign up to whatever it is they are doing they are more than eager to call me and pretend to give a damn about my life.
-
I follow this one woman on Instagram who steals "before and after" pictures of people who lost weight/got ripped from the internet and reposts them on IG, referring to them as "satisfied clients". I think she sells health shakes or something.
-
I find it surprising that Dave Ramsey, financial guru, doesn't warn people about the risks of getting involved in MLM. He's actually addressed it but in a very low key way, that doesn't get the point across at all, that MLMs are often risky and financially foolish. Just as bad as someone getting into CC debt or over spending or buying things they can't afford. Yet, he doesn't really aggressively address it.
-
I find it surprising that Dave Ramsey, financial guru, doesn't warn people about the risks of getting involved in MLM. He's actually addressed it but in a very low key way, that doesn't get the point across at all, that MLMs are often risky and financially foolish. Just as bad as someone getting into CC debt or over spending or buying things they can't afford. Yet, he doesn't really aggressively address it.
MLMs are rampant in the conservative Christian world. They are seen as an acceptable way for women to earn some income in cultures where they are discouraged from working outside the home. I suspect Dave doesn't want to alienate this group of people because they are a core part of his demographic.
-
I find it surprising that Dave Ramsey, financial guru, doesn't warn people about the risks of getting involved in MLM. He's actually addressed it but in a very low key way, that doesn't get the point across at all, that MLMs are often risky and financially foolish. Just as bad as someone getting into CC debt or over spending or buying things they can't afford. Yet, he doesn't really aggressively address it.
MLMs are rampant in the conservative Christian world. They are seen as an acceptable way for women to earn some income in cultures where they are discouraged from working outside the home. I suspect Dave doesn't want to alienate this group of people because they are a core part of his demographic.
If true, then Dave Ramsey has a lot less credibility for me.
-
I find it surprising that Dave Ramsey, financial guru, doesn't warn people about the risks of getting involved in MLM. He's actually addressed it but in a very low key way, that doesn't get the point across at all, that MLMs are often risky and financially foolish. Just as bad as someone getting into CC debt or over spending or buying things they can't afford. Yet, he doesn't really aggressively address it.
MLMs are rampant in the conservative Christian world. They are seen as an acceptable way for women to earn some income in cultures where they are discouraged from working outside the home. I suspect Dave doesn't want to alienate this group of people because they are a core part of his demographic.
If true, then Dave Ramsey has a lot less credibility for me.
I can't say for sure if it's true, and I haven't listened to Dave's show in a long time. Just putting a few things I know about the culture together. Also, he openly promotes poor investment choices and whole life insurance policies, so not all of his financial advice is exactly stellar.
-
The Dave Ramsey course instructors we know, said they have loaded mutual funds. I didn't think that 100% wise, but decided not to comment on it when they told me.
-
The Dave Ramsey course instructors we know, said they have loaded mutual funds. I didn't think that 100% wise, but decided not to comment on it when they told me.
That's a subject we've definitely beat to death on this forum. Bottom line: use Ramsey to get out of debt, but turn him off when it's time to invest.
-
Dave Ramsey is my guilty pleasure.
Re: MLMs and Dave Ramsey, his take is that you should make sure that you know that you're not in the business of selling a product, but that you're in the recruitment business. I've heard him address the question several times on his podcast. I would call his tone one of guarded skepticism. He says that there is a certain type of person who can do the MLM thing really well and make good money from it. But he acknowledges that it's rare, and most people fail.
Coming out and calling out MLMs as a huge, decades old, horrible scam that manipulates valuable human relationships in the name of making a buck (a buck that rarely even materializes) is a great way to stir up an ugly, polarized conversation that doesn't get anywhere. I can't say I blame Ramsey for qualifying his remarks on the subject.
I've never heard him say anything but scathing remarks about whole life insurance policies. And he is very, very scathing.
-
I've never heard him say anything but scathing remarks about whole life insurance policies. And he is very, very scathing.
Same here. I've never heard him recommend anything but term life insurance.
-
UGH! Lately I have been an MLM magnet!
On IG I will sometimes post something food or fitness related (yes I'm that person) and I have been followed and contacted by beachbody "coaches". They were asking me to join their team of like minded, motivated women and how I can be my own boss and such. I was super polite (because there is no point in being unless I have to) and thanked them, but no. Only when pushed for a reason why do I say that Shakeology is a scam.
today my FB page was hijacked by a woman I'm friends with. She is always falling into some sort of MLM company for the last 6 or 7 years. I posted an article about a Youtube blogger I follow and she commented about how Young Living EOs have changed her life then she tagged her YL distributor, and they got into a conversation on my page about how awesome YL is. I finally stepped in and PMd them to stop and said I am not interested in YL especially since the company claimed it could cure Ebola. Sorry I just needed to rant about it.
-
UGH! Lately I have been an MLM magnet!
On IG I will sometimes post something food or fitness related (yes I'm that person) and I have been followed and contacted by beachbody "coaches". They were asking me to join their team of like minded, motivated women and how I can be my own boss and such. I was super polite (because there is no point in being unless I have to) and thanked them, but no. Only when pushed for a reason why do I say that Shakeology is a scam.
today my FB page was hijacked by a woman I'm friends with. She is always falling into some sort of MLM company for the last 6 or 7 years. I posted an article about a Youtube blogger I follow and she commented about how Young Living EOs have changed her life then she tagged her YL distributor, and they got into a conversation on my page about how awesome YL is. I finally stepped in and PMd them to stop and said I am not interested in YL especially since the company claimed it could cure Ebola. Sorry I just needed to rant about it.
I'd honestly block anyone who pulled that stunt on my own Facebook page.
-
I've never heard him say anything but scathing remarks about whole life insurance policies. And he is very, very scathing.
Same here. I've never heard him recommend anything but term life insurance.
Third that. I haven't listened in a few years, but I doubt he has changed since my daily listening days from 2013-2015. I remember one conversation in particular where a whole life insurance salesman called trying to justify it and Dave really went off on him.
-
Ha! I was listening to yesterday's Dave Ramsey podcast; a guy called in to say that his wife was grossing $200k+ from selling Lularoe and he was wondering if it was a good idea for him to quit his $50k/year job as a mechanic to help her with her business.
My eyebrows climbed up my forehead. Run! Run away from Lularoe!!
Dave expressed, you guessed it, guarded skepticism, led the guy through some standard questioning, and then at the end, finally said--that's a multi-level marketing scheme, I wouldn't quit my day job yet. You said how much she's grossing--what's her net profit? Sounds like you guys are caught up in hype.
The guy started stammering about how it's not really an MLM and Dave shut him down. Just admit it! It's an MLM.
Aaaand that's why I'm an english teacher and Dave Ramsey is a radio personality. I wouldn't even be able to entertain the call for three seconds.
-
UGH! Lately I have been an MLM magnet!
On IG I will sometimes post something food or fitness related (yes I'm that person) and I have been followed and contacted by beachbody "coaches". They were asking me to join their team of like minded, motivated women and how I can be my own boss and such. I was super polite (because there is no point in being unless I have to) and thanked them, but no. Only when pushed for a reason why do I say that Shakeology is a scam.
today my FB page was hijacked by a woman I'm friends with. She is always falling into some sort of MLM company for the last 6 or 7 years. I posted an article about a Youtube blogger I follow and she commented about how Young Living EOs have changed her life then she tagged her YL distributor, and they got into a conversation on my page about how awesome YL is. I finally stepped in and PMd them to stop and said I am not interested in YL especially since the company claimed it could cure Ebola. Sorry I just needed to rant about it.
Oh, the tag is soooo sleazy! You know it wasn't a casual thing. It's probably a technique they do on purpose so they can have a "natural convo" about EOs all over people's walls. Because without 2 people talking, it's just one and that really sounds sleazy. Except WE CAN SEE THROUGH YOU!
-
Dave Ramsey is my guilty pleasure.
Re: MLMs and Dave Ramsey, his take is that you should make sure that you know that you're not in the business of selling a product, but that you're in the recruitment business. I've heard him address the question several times on his podcast. I would call his tone one of guarded skepticism. He says that there is a certain type of person who can do the MLM thing really well and make good money from it. But he acknowledges that it's rare, and most people fail.
Coming out and calling out MLMs as a huge, decades old, horrible scam that manipulates valuable human relationships in the name of making a buck (a buck that rarely even materializes) is a great way to stir up an ugly, polarized conversation that doesn't get anywhere. I can't say I blame Ramsey for qualifying his remarks on the subject.
I've never heard him say anything but scathing remarks about whole life insurance policies. And he is very, very scathing.
Is there a MLM-like aspect to his Financial University and other services?
-
Dave Ramsey is my guilty pleasure.
Re: MLMs and Dave Ramsey, his take is that you should make sure that you know that you're not in the business of selling a product, but that you're in the recruitment business. I've heard him address the question several times on his podcast. I would call his tone one of guarded skepticism. He says that there is a certain type of person who can do the MLM thing really well and make good money from it. But he acknowledges that it's rare, and most people fail.
Coming out and calling out MLMs as a huge, decades old, horrible scam that manipulates valuable human relationships in the name of making a buck (a buck that rarely even materializes) is a great way to stir up an ugly, polarized conversation that doesn't get anywhere. I can't say I blame Ramsey for qualifying his remarks on the subject.
I've never heard him say anything but scathing remarks about whole life insurance policies. And he is very, very scathing.
Is there a MLM-like aspect to his Financial University and other services?
No. It's basically a class that participants pay to take. It's put on by "facilitators" or "leaders", usually in churches holding the course for anyone interested in their congregation. The one-time fee of $99 gets you lifetime access to the course, so I don't think the people in charge pay any money to lead further courses year after year. And Dave jokes that if you "fail" the first time, you're welcome to go back again and again until the message sinks in. Basically, if you suck at budgeting or had relationship problems you had to work out instead of getting anywhere in the first class, you're welcome to keep going as long as you want.
The Endorsed Local Provider and SmartVester Pro services are just basically his company setting up a database of financial advisers/realtors/insurance people who they 1. "endorse" or are willing to direct people to on their website and 2. the person has agreed in some way to be a part of the greater Dave Ramsey network. I believe they pay a fee to end up on the list, though I could be wrong and don't feel like Googling right now. People don't like this part because usually the financial advisers have high fees, or front loaded fees, etc. But for Dave it solved the problem of "this person I'm talking to on the radio needs more help than I can give them in less than 5 minutes...and trusts me and wants a personal recommendation of someone to talk to" while happily adding a new income stream.
I listen to two podcasts of his a week. It's sort of a guilty pleasure, but some of his rants really annoy me. I can only handle Dave and his baby steps in small doses, but hearing about people living below their means is a nice positive motivator and reminder.
Where I think the gossip about him has some teeth is that he never gets into the details about what happened between bankruptcy and making a decent living with his company. Somehow he managed to pay all that debt off, grow a business "with cash only!", and build a real estate empire, before his kids were teenagers. That's a 10, maybe 15, year turnaround. I've heard on these forums that his parents died and he got a big inheritance, but I have no evidence of that.
-
Ha! I was listening to yesterday's Dave Ramsey podcast; a guy called in to say that his wife was grossing $200k+ from selling Lularoe and he was wondering if it was a good idea for him to quit his $50k/year job as a mechanic to help her with her business.
My eyebrows climbed up my forehead. Run! Run away from Lularoe!!
Dave expressed, you guessed it, guarded skepticism, led the guy through some standard questioning, and then at the end, finally said--that's a multi-level marketing scheme, I wouldn't quit my day job yet. You said how much she's grossing--what's her net profit? Sounds like you guys are caught up in hype.
The guy started stammering about how it's not really an MLM and Dave shut him down. Just admit it! It's an MLM.
Aaaand that's why I'm an english teacher and Dave Ramsey is a radio personality. I wouldn't even be able to entertain the call for three seconds.
I saw a breakdown video of how the commissions worked for LLR yesterday..
In addition to your own 100 - 150 - 175 - 250 minimum item purchase per month (the lower level of 100 units are the numbers if you have 3 direct downlines buying their minimums), that you should be selling and making profit on, 12% of your gross sales (or 24% of the money you pay for inventory) goes to various upline commissions. I estimate that consultant make 28% margin on their own sales, assuming discarded inventory and costs for returning inventory that does not sell. The last 60% would go to purchase of goods and company and consultant overhead expenses.
How much does a consultant make.?
The DR caller that grosses sales over $200k per year (which means selling over 500 units per month personally) would be netting about $4600/month (at 28% margin)
--> But I doubt it, more statistically likely this $200k/yr gross retail is across the entire 12 person downline, so would be netting only $1150 per month... as some of the sales are only at 5% and 1% upline commissions.
---------------------------------------------------
MATH rough estimates and general assumptions (worst case /conservative)
Wholesale prices are $13-$30 per unit. Advertised retail is 2x wholesale, and suggested retail prices items are actually sold for are a bit less. Assume that a person with an active downline still needs to buy 150 units per month x $15 each = $2250 per month plus $25 shipping = $2275 out of pocket, minimum.
They sell 50 units at advertised price, 50 units at markdown ($22), 25 are returned at 80% wholesale minus shipping costs and 25 units are given away because you opened the package, they are ugly and did not sell. = $2885 per month.
Net is $635/month of personal sales, plus your 5% direct downline $450, plus your second level downlines at 1%:$300
So, a person with 12 people under them of which half pull in their minimums, and directly selling over 100 units per month personally, would earn: $1385/month, conservatively
-
Ha! I was listening to yesterday's Dave Ramsey podcast; a guy called in to say that his wife was grossing $200k+ from selling Lularoe and he was wondering if it was a good idea for him to quit his $50k/year job as a mechanic to help her with her business.
My eyebrows climbed up my forehead. Run! Run away from Lularoe!!
Dave expressed, you guessed it, guarded skepticism, led the guy through some standard questioning, and then at the end, finally said--that's a multi-level marketing scheme, I wouldn't quit my day job yet. You said how much she's grossing--what's her net profit? Sounds like you guys are caught up in hype.
The guy started stammering about how it's not really an MLM and Dave shut him down. Just admit it! It's an MLM.
Aaaand that's why I'm an english teacher and Dave Ramsey is a radio personality. I wouldn't even be able to entertain the call for three seconds.
I don't believe the man's story about his wife making 200K even if she's not including her business expenses. I think the guy might even be a plant for the failing Lularoe business. That's pretty clever of Lularoe, though. Got to hand it to them.
But yes, it's common people in MLM will state they earn a certain amount, and they do - but they don't include their business expenses or how much they spent on the inventory.
-
Yeah, if the caller was a shill for Lularoe Dave ramsey's show would be a great platform. Just filled with SHM's looking for ways to make some extra money.
-
Yeah, if the caller was a shill for Lularoe Dave ramsey's show would be a great platform. Just filled with SHM's looking for ways to make some extra money.
I was impressed when they brought on Christy Wright (might be Kristy?) to to the women business book and seminars - I assume they're all aimed at exactly this market. I haven't checked out her materials, but it was a great next step for broadening the scope as they transition the business beyond Dave.
-
Thanks for the number crunching Goldielocks! I crunched a few more numbers, using the figures that you came up with, just for fun.
If the caller grosses $200,000 in sales, and only nets $1150/mn, this person is:
1. On an average (40 hour) work week, is selling 25 pairs of leggings per day (3/hr)!
2. In selling the 25 pairs per day (3/hr), they are netting a grand total of $7.19/hr ($1150 net/mn over 160 hours worked that month (40hr x 4 weeks)).
Isn't it fun crunching the numbers?!
Financially speaking, a person is better off asking "Would you like fries with that?" Rather than, "would you like to join my downline selling these lotions, potions and/or weight loss product?"
Ha! I was listening to yesterday's Dave Ramsey podcast; a guy called in to say that his wife was grossing $200k+ from selling Lularoe and he was wondering if it was a good idea for him to quit his $50k/year job as a mechanic to help her with her business.
My eyebrows climbed up my forehead. Run! Run away from Lularoe!!
Dave expressed, you guessed it, guarded skepticism, led the guy through some standard questioning, and then at the end, finally said--that's a multi-level marketing scheme, I wouldn't quit my day job yet. You said how much she's grossing--what's her net profit? Sounds like you guys are caught up in hype.
The guy started stammering about how it's not really an MLM and Dave shut him down. Just admit it! It's an MLM.
Aaaand that's why I'm an english teacher and Dave Ramsey is a radio personality. I wouldn't even be able to entertain the call for three seconds.
I saw a breakdown video of how the commissions worked for LLR yesterday..
In addition to your own 100 - 150 - 175 - 250 minimum item purchase per month (the lower level of 100 units are the numbers if you have 3 direct downlines buying their minimums), that you should be selling and making profit on, 12% of your gross sales (or 24% of the money you pay for inventory) goes to various upline commissions. I estimate that consultant make 28% margin on their own sales, assuming discarded inventory and costs for returning inventory that does not sell. The last 60% would go to purchase of goods and company and consultant overhead expenses.
How much does a consultant make.?
The DR caller that grosses sales over $200k per year (which means selling over 500 units per month personally) would be netting about $4600/month (at 28% margin)
--> But I doubt it, more statistically likely this $200k/yr gross retail is across the entire 12 person downline, so would be netting only $1150 per month... as some of the sales are only at 5% and 1% upline commissions.
---------------------------------------------------
MATH rough estimates and general assumptions (worst case /conservative)
Wholesale prices are $13-$30 per unit. Advertised retail is 2x wholesale, and suggested retail prices items are actually sold for are a bit less. Assume that a person with an active downline still needs to buy 150 units per month x $15 each = $2250 per month plus $25 shipping = $2275 out of pocket, minimum.
They sell 50 units at advertised price, 50 units at markdown ($22), 25 are returned at 80% wholesale minus shipping costs and 25 units are given away because you opened the package, they are ugly and did not sell. = $2885 per month.
Net is $635/month of personal sales, plus your 5% direct downline $450, plus your second level downlines at 1%:$300
So, a person with 12 people under them of which half pull in their minimums, and directly selling over 100 units per month personally, would earn: $1385/month, conservatively
-
Yeah, if the caller was a shill for Lularoe Dave ramsey's show would be a great platform. Just filled with SHM's looking for ways to make some extra money.
Yeah. and I'd bet anything the caller was a shill. That has all the earmarks of being a shill.
People in MLMs lie, lie, lie about how much money they make.
It's been proven that the most successful people in Mary Kay who drive the pink car only net around 30K - 35K a year. But they say they earn a lot more than that. A friend of mine had a neighbor (man) in Mary Kay who drove the pink car and lived in a nice, big home. He recruited her and she became part of his downline. About a year later, I asked about him...she said he'd moved out of the neighborhood because his home got repossessed. And she had quit the Mary Kay business also.
-
A long, depressing read:
https://qz.com/1039331/mlms-like-avon-and-lularoe-are-sending-people-into-debt-and-psychological-crisis/
Thank you for this link. a very useful read.
posting to follow.
I read that article in the car last night on the way home. At one point, I looked up and amusingly enough saw posted on the back of someone's SUV an ad for a MLM I hadn't heard of yet - Pure Romance.
-
posting to follow.
[/quote]
I read that article in the car last night on the way home. At one point, I looked up and amusingly enough saw posted on the back of someone's SUV an ad for a MLM I hadn't heard of yet - Pure Romance.
[/quote]
I have been in the audience for a pure romance party, it's sex toys and lube and things like that. I used to dance so it was just a fun evening for us at the studio. I liked the products and would purchase again 😳 But heck no I would never buy into the MLM!!! Haha of course they pass out forms asking if you want to "host" a party. I would rather shot myself in the leg.
-
UGH! Lately I have been an MLM magnet!
On IG I will sometimes post something food or fitness related (yes I'm that person) and I have been followed and contacted by beachbody "coaches". They were asking me to join their team of like minded, motivated women and how I can be my own boss and such. I was super polite (because there is no point in being unless I have to) and thanked them, but no. Only when pushed for a reason why do I say that Shakeology is a scam.
today my FB page was hijacked by a woman I'm friends with. She is always falling into some sort of MLM company for the last 6 or 7 years. I posted an article about a Youtube blogger I follow and she commented about how Young Living EOs have changed her life then she tagged her YL distributor, and they got into a conversation on my page about how awesome YL is. I finally stepped in and PMd them to stop and said I am not interested in YL especially since the company claimed it could cure Ebola. Sorry I just needed to rant about it.
Oh Beachbody. Such good workouts and recipes... such a bad way to make money and prey on people.
-
Oh Beachbody. Such good workouts and recipes... such a bad way to make money and prey on people.
It seems to be a trend with MLMs: decent product, but a business model designed to grossly inflate the price and bring out the hate and mistrust in people.
-
Someone on my facebook page just posted that she has 50 pairs of Lularoe leggings. She buys from a current dealer, so she's paying full price ($25 each), although I do know she got a couple pairs free. Even if she got 10 pairs free, that's still $1k in leggings. She also has several of the shirts (some are $50 full price), and I think she even got one of the jean jackets (crazy expensive for what it is). She doesn't work (on disability). I guess at least she is not getting on board to sell them herself?
I want to message her and tell her to look for them through the people "going out of business" so that she can get them for < $14 instead (and some for <$10). But... I kind of don't want to engage. So, I'm going with "not my place" and staying out of it.
-
Someone on my facebook page just posted that she has 50 pairs of Lularoe leggings. She buys from a current dealer, so she's paying full price ($25 each), although I do know she got a couple pairs free. Even if she got 10 pairs free, that's still $1k in leggings. She also has several of the shirts (some are $50 full price), and I think she even got one of the jean jackets (crazy expensive for what it is). She doesn't work (on disability). I guess at least she is not getting on board to sell them herself?
I want to message her and tell her to look for them through the people "going out of business" so that she can get them for < $14 instead (and some for <$10). But... I kind of don't want to engage. So, I'm going with "not my place" and staying out of it.
For that amount of money, I can get business attire to last three full years including the shoes.
Disability is weird, though. You're not allowed to save or accumulate significant amounts of money. If you scrape together enough for, say, an inexpensive $5,000 vehicle the benefits are cut.
Edited to add: this is why there's actually a financial incentive to put windfalls or savings into belongings.
-
Someone on my facebook page just posted that she has 50 pairs of Lularoe leggings. She buys from a current dealer, so she's paying full price ($25 each), although I do know she got a couple pairs free. Even if she got 10 pairs free, that's still $1k in leggings. She also has several of the shirts (some are $50 full price), and I think she even got one of the jean jackets (crazy expensive for what it is). She doesn't work (on disability). I guess at least she is not getting on board to sell them herself?
I want to message her and tell her to look for them through the people "going out of business" so that she can get them for < $14 instead (and some for <$10). But... I kind of don't want to engage. So, I'm going with "not my place" and staying out of it.
I tried to tell a friend about buying that stuff on ebay for less. She said she had to have "brand new". I tried to explain you could get brand new on ebay from dealers who are going out of business. She wouldn't listen. So I gave up. It's her money and she wants to waste it, fine.
-
Someone on my facebook page just posted that she has 50 pairs of Lularoe leggings. She buys from a current dealer, so she's paying full price ($25 each), although I do know she got a couple pairs free. Even if she got 10 pairs free, that's still $1k in leggings. She also has several of the shirts (some are $50 full price), and I think she even got one of the jean jackets (crazy expensive for what it is). She doesn't work (on disability). I guess at least she is not getting on board to sell them herself?
I want to message her and tell her to look for them through the people "going out of business" so that she can get them for < $14 instead (and some for <$10). But... I kind of don't want to engage. So, I'm going with "not my place" and staying out of it.
I tried to tell a friend about buying that stuff on ebay for less. She said she had to have "brand new". I tried to explain you could get brand new on ebay from dealers who are going out of business. She wouldn't listen. So I gave up. It's her money and she wants to waste it, fine.
Yeah, the market is completely flooded (even though it's pretty "brand new" to our area). You can get the same exact leggings from someone else, brand new, for less than half the price...
-
Someone on my facebook page just posted that she has 50 pairs of Lularoe leggings. She buys from a current dealer, so she's paying full price ($25 each), although I do know she got a couple pairs free. Even if she got 10 pairs free, that's still $1k in leggings. She also has several of the shirts (some are $50 full price), and I think she even got one of the jean jackets (crazy expensive for what it is). She doesn't work (on disability). I guess at least she is not getting on board to sell them herself?
I want to message her and tell her to look for them through the people "going out of business" so that she can get them for < $14 instead (and some for <$10). But... I kind of don't want to engage. So, I'm going with "not my place" and staying out of it.
For that amount of money, I can get business attire to last three full years including the shoes.
Disability is weird, though. You're not allowed to save or accumulate significant amounts of money. If you scrape together enough for, say, an inexpensive $5,000 vehicle the benefits are cut.
Edited to add: this is why there's actually a financial incentive to put windfalls or savings into belongings.
Disability is definitely weird... I think her parent's own her place, so she doesn't have rent/mortgage, so most of her money goes to utilities, her animals, and "treating herself". I think she is still trying to get off the disability and find a job though, as she's pretty isolated.
-
Leggings related note: heard a young lady wearing them complaining yesterday that her legs were cold, even though winter hasn't really started yet.
Maybe LLR should start selling actual pants for these people.
-
Ha! I was listening to yesterday's Dave Ramsey podcast; a guy called in to say that his wife was grossing $200k+ from selling Lularoe and he was wondering if it was a good idea for him to quit his $50k/year job as a mechanic to help her with her business.
My eyebrows climbed up my forehead. Run! Run away from Lularoe!!
Dave expressed, you guessed it, guarded skepticism, led the guy through some standard questioning, and then at the end, finally said--that's a multi-level marketing scheme, I wouldn't quit my day job yet. You said how much she's grossing--what's her net profit? Sounds like you guys are caught up in hype.
The guy started stammering about how it's not really an MLM and Dave shut him down. Just admit it! It's an MLM.
Aaaand that's why I'm an english teacher and Dave Ramsey is a radio personality. I wouldn't even be able to entertain the call for three seconds.
I don't believe the man's story about his wife making 200K even if she's not including her business expenses. I think the guy might even be a plant for the failing Lularoe business. That's pretty clever of Lularoe, though. Got to hand it to them.
But yes, it's common people in MLM will state they earn a certain amount, and they do - but they don't include their business expenses or how much they spent on the inventory.
Well, looks like there may be a little life left in Lularoe. They are coming out very soon with the LuLaRoe Color Collection: NOIR. It's an all black capsule of their classic pieces. People love black and I can see a big up tick in sales because of this. Comments on a LaLaRoe buying group about this include: Eeeeeekkkkssss!!!!, Yep, now I'm in trouble, I need this, Yes!!!, I will knock down doors of local girls who get these Julia's in my size, Well it's about damn time; I would cut someone for a black Sarah, Gah! Neeeeed These!!!.
I still have zero interest in buying any of it.
-
Here's another sad and terrifying deep-dive into MLM insanity:
https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2017/10/09/how-essential-oils-became-the-cure-for-our-age-of-anxiety
-
I was scoping out a local (NJ) Women's Expo for my business last month. It is basically an expo for women to shop. There were a couple hundred booths set up with things such as jewelry, skincare, oils, tarot readers, hair care, some clothes, and various things like that. There were not 1, not 2, but 3 LaLaRue booths!! And one of them was a giant booth that took up two spaces. Each space is $750 to rent for 2 days. Crazy! ...and there were customers in their booths.
There was also a huge section for a clothing brand where everyone was just standing around waiting for customers (so they could pounce!). But no one was going over there - it was too intimidating. I think the brand was Matilda Jane???
Not my clientele, but, anyway, thought of this thread.....
-
There was also a huge section for a clothing brand where everyone was just standing around waiting for customers (so they could pounce!). But no one was going over there - it was too intimidating. I think the brand was Matilda Jane???
Not my clientele, but, anyway, thought of this thread.....
Matilda Jane = ridiculously over-priced, overly-frilled, pretentious children's clothing.
My opinion.
-
My facebook is blowing up over the black LLR. I wonder if it will all be sold grab bag style so consultants can get rid of their ugly crap.
-
Here's another sad and terrifying deep-dive into MLM insanity:
https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2017/10/09/how-essential-oils-became-the-cure-for-our-age-of-anxiety
I've seen this before. There is some awful stuff in there, and somehow we are supposed to trust these people? But, for the MLM and earning money part, this quote is definitely the standard I set for a job... "I went from making zero dollars a month to over zero dollars a month." <insert eyeroll>
-
Here's another sad and terrifying deep-dive into MLM insanity:
https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2017/10/09/how-essential-oils-became-the-cure-for-our-age-of-anxiety
I've seen this before. There is some awful stuff in there, and somehow we are supposed to trust these people? But, for the MLM and earning money part, this quote is definitely the standard I set for a job... "I went from making zero dollars a month to over zero dollars a month." <insert eyeroll>
"rub three times in a circular clockwise pattern [in your palm] to activate the electrical properties of the oil that aligns you DNA" (paraphrased).
-
Here's another sad and terrifying deep-dive into MLM insanity:
https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2017/10/09/how-essential-oils-became-the-cure-for-our-age-of-anxiety
I've seen this before. There is some awful stuff in there, and somehow we are supposed to trust these people? But, for the MLM and earning money part, this quote is definitely the standard I set for a job... "I went from making zero dollars a month to over zero dollars a month." <insert eyeroll>
"rub three times in a circular clockwise pattern [in your palm] to activate the electrical properties of the oil that aligns you DNA" (paraphrased).
If the oil is in my left palm, and I rub with my right palm in a clockwise pattern, isn't my left hand essentially rubbing counterclockwise? Won't that counteract the electrical properties of the oil and confuse my DNA?
-
One of these essential oils salespeople went on a FB group I was in, when a mom posted that her child had pinkeye. She actually told her it would be okay to put EOs in the child's eye, that certain oils would "cure" eye infections. Is that scary or what? I'd never risk putting something in my child's eye without a MEDICAL DOCTOR'S approval.
It was a frugal facebook group that I'm a member of and these women were trying to save money on doctor bills. Although I am frugal when it comes to many things, I don't take chances with my child's health.
-
Here's another sad and terrifying deep-dive into MLM insanity:
https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2017/10/09/how-essential-oils-became-the-cure-for-our-age-of-anxiety
I've seen this before. There is some awful stuff in there, and somehow we are supposed to trust these people? But, for the MLM and earning money part, this quote is definitely the standard I set for a job... "I went from making zero dollars a month to over zero dollars a month." <insert eyeroll>
"rub three times in a circular clockwise pattern [in your palm] to activate the electrical properties of the oil that aligns you DNA" (paraphrased).
If the oil is in my left palm, and I rub with my right palm in a clockwise pattern, isn't my left hand essentially rubbing counterclockwise? Won't that counteract the electrical properties of the oil and confuse my DNA?
You're confusing the polarity! (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m_i_IikokNU)
-
There were not 1, not 2, but 3 LaLaRue booths!! And one of them was a giant booth that took up two spaces. Each space is $750 to rent for 2 days. Crazy! ...and there were customers in their booths.
Were they at least selling different things? This seems to be the main problem with the MLM business model in a nutshell - distributors so local they're leaching from each other.
-
There were not 1, not 2, but 3 LaLaRue booths!! And one of them was a giant booth that took up two spaces. Each space is $750 to rent for 2 days. Crazy! ...and there were customers in their booths.
Were they at least selling different things? This seems to be the main problem with the MLM business model in a nutshell - distributors so local they're leaching from each other.
The way LLR is set up, the distributor only has choice on size and style, no control over print, they just get what they are sent. So, it's likely that the prints were different, but the actual clothes were the same. It's how the company has developed a "rush" on certain patterns, etc. They claim to make only 1k or 5k items of each print.
-
One of these essential oils salespeople went on a FB group I was in, when a mom posted that her child had pinkeye. She actually told her it would be okay to put EOs in the child's eye, that certain oils would "cure" eye infections. Is that scary or what? I'd never risk putting something in my child's eye without a MEDICAL DOCTOR'S approval.
It was a frugal facebook group that I'm a member of and these women were trying to save money on doctor bills. Although I am frugal when it comes to many things, I don't take chances with my child's health.
They aren't selling anything but same in the breastfeeding community. Anything wrong with the kid? Throw breastmilk on it. Pink eye, diaper rash, baby acne, cuts and bruises.
Never throw out expired milk. Put it in the bath instead.
-
One of these essential oils salespeople went on a FB group I was in, when a mom posted that her child had pinkeye. She actually told her it would be okay to put EOs in the child's eye, that certain oils would "cure" eye infections. Is that scary or what? I'd never risk putting something in my child's eye without a MEDICAL DOCTOR'S approval.
It was a frugal facebook group that I'm a member of and these women were trying to save money on doctor bills. Although I am frugal when it comes to many things, I don't take chances with my child's health.
They aren't selling anything but same in the breastfeeding community. Anything wrong with the kid? Throw breastmilk on it. Pink eye, diaper rash, baby acne, cuts and bruises.
I've seen the same, claiming that breastmilk can cure "anything" (not true).
-
One of these essential oils salespeople went on a FB group I was in, when a mom posted that her child had pinkeye. She actually told her it would be okay to put EOs in the child's eye, that certain oils would "cure" eye infections. Is that scary or what? I'd never risk putting something in my child's eye without a MEDICAL DOCTOR'S approval.
It was a frugal facebook group that I'm a member of and these women were trying to save money on doctor bills. Although I am frugal when it comes to many things, I don't take chances with my child's health.
They aren't selling anything but same in the breastfeeding community. Anything wrong with the kid? Throw breastmilk on it. Pink eye, diaper rash, baby acne, cuts and bruises.
I've seen the same, claiming that breastmilk can cure "anything" (not true).
Crazy! And it reminds me of those placenta pills that I see a number of my MLM friends have bought into. Maybe someone already posted about that here? I can't remember. http://www.chicagotribune.com/lifestyles/health/ct-cdc-warns-against-placenta-pills-20170706-story.html
-
What did I even just read?? I mean I know that the sellers believe that essential oils are chemical free, but do they know this guy is a certifiable, criminal, nut case?!
-
I was scoping out a local (NJ) Women's Expo for my business last month. It is basically an expo for women to shop. There were a couple hundred booths set up with things such as jewelry, skincare, oils, tarot readers, hair care, some clothes, and various things like that. There were not 1, not 2, but 3 LaLaRue booths!! And one of them was a giant booth that took up two spaces. Each space is $750 to rent for 2 days. Crazy! ...and there were customers in their booths.
As someone who goes to a fair number of expos/conferences/conventions as an exhibitor, I can tell you that $750 for a 10x10 booth is actually on the cheap end of things. Depending on what show we're at, it can be three times that cost. Of course, all those MLM sellers are hoping to make back not only their $750, but the cost of the goods they're selling, and then make enough money to take something home. I find it a bit hard to believe they made a profit :)
-
Has anyone seen the latest MLM, Xyngular? I have friends who have recently started this weight loss MLM and are now hawking it everywhere. One girl, who has been quite overweight for some time, posted on Facebook that she lost 7 POUNDS in the first TWO days. I have to assume this stuff is just some horrific combination of diuretics and laxatives.
-
I feel like I need to come clean here- yesterday a FB friend who sells LuLaRoe posted a really cute OOTD. If she would have sold me just the skirt without shipping costs, I would have bought it.
There. I feel better now.
-
LLR - I'm watching this from afar b/c DW has no interest in them our girly relatives don't live in our town.
Question: there aren't any other brands that offer the same kind of clothing for similar or lower prices?
Essential oils: I don't want to apply anything to my body that will fool around with my DNA (I know it really doesn't). Why doesn't that sound risky to the people who believe in the sales spiel? Why doesn't that sound like something that could be risky?
-
What did I even just read?? I mean I know that the sellers believe that essential oils are chemical free, but do they know this guy is a certifiable, criminal, nut case?!
That's why some of them split off and formed doTerra.
-
LLR - I'm watching this from afar b/c DW has no interest in them our girly relatives don't live in our town.
Question: there aren't any other brands that offer the same kind of clothing for similar or lower prices?
Essential oils: I don't want to apply anything to my body that will fool around with my DNA (I know it really doesn't). Why doesn't that sound risky to the people who believe in the sales spiel? Why doesn't that sound like something that could be risky?
DNA has become yet another marketing term. It's either used to invoke the devil (GMOs put DNA in your food!) or described as a superficially relevant organ such as this "oils" business. I'm sure there's an MLM that asks you to eat their food because it "cleanses" your DNA (as if the building blocks of your body were the same as fish tank water).
-
One of these essential oils salespeople went on a FB group I was in, when a mom posted that her child had pinkeye. She actually told her it would be okay to put EOs in the child's eye, that certain oils would "cure" eye infections. Is that scary or what? I'd never risk putting something in my child's eye without a MEDICAL DOCTOR'S approval.
It was a frugal facebook group that I'm a member of and these women were trying to save money on doctor bills. Although I am frugal when it comes to many things, I don't take chances with my child's health.
They aren't selling anything but same in the breastfeeding community. Anything wrong with the kid? Throw breastmilk on it. Pink eye, diaper rash, baby acne, cuts and bruises.
I've seen the same, claiming that breastmilk can cure "anything" (not true).
Hey, but when I was nursing kid #2, one of my neighbors' kids had an eye infection. She gave me half a dozen eggs from her chickens in exchange for some extra milk. I won that trade!
-
Here's another sad and terrifying deep-dive into MLM insanity:
https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2017/10/09/how-essential-oils-became-the-cure-for-our-age-of-anxiety
I've seen this before. There is some awful stuff in there, and somehow we are supposed to trust these people? But, for the MLM and earning money part, this quote is definitely the standard I set for a job... "I went from making zero dollars a month to over zero dollars a month." <insert eyeroll>
"rub three times in a circular clockwise pattern [in your palm] to activate the electrical properties of the oil that aligns you DNA" (paraphrased).
If the oil is in my left palm, and I rub with my right palm in a clockwise pattern, isn't my left hand essentially rubbing counterclockwise? Won't that counteract the electrical properties of the oil and confuse my DNA?
A secret little tip: it doesn't matter what way you rub, you can go either way. Ofcourse, you have to go the same way each time. If you go counter clockwise one day, and clockwise another, you start rubbing against DNA grain and you risk breaking DNA strands at the root. #science
-
Someone posted on facebook today, looking for a "Younique dealer" (a make-up MLM). I live in a fairly small town (about 14k people). Curious, I looked on city-data and found that about 6k of those people are female. Let's say 2/3 of those women are at an age where they wear makeup. That leaves a max customer base of 4k people to sell to (many of the women in this town don't wear makeup though, and if they do, they use a much cheaper brand you can find at the store...but, we'll go with 4k anyway).
Response to that one request? 27 "bossbabes". 27. Our town doesn't even have a Walmart, but we have 27 people (at least) trying to hawk an expensive makeup.
I know people want to have a "downline", so they can make money off them, but at some point there are just too many people selling the same thing. I haven't paid much attention to how many MLM sellers there are for each company, but I think I may start to pay attention. I know that there were a lot of Visalus (or whatever the shake company was called) sellers for a while, but I think most gave up.
-
I'll admit to owning and loving a couple pairs of LLR leggings. Expensive, yes, but I don't consider $25 for pants to be obscene./confession
Anyway, I'm still a part of several groups on Facebook which I joined while I was looking for prints I liked when I was shopping for my pairs. Some sellers actually offer a service where they will put a "Congratulations! You won this!" note in the packages, so that women can hide from their husbands the fact that they've spent more money on LLR purchases.
How shady is that!
-
I'll admit to owning and loving a couple pairs of LLR leggings. Expensive, yes, but I don't consider $25 for pants to be obscene./confession
Anyway, I'm still a part of several groups on Facebook which I joined while I was looking for prints I liked when I was shopping for my pairs. Some sellers actually offer a service where they will put a "Congratulations! You won this!" note in the packages, so that women can hide from their husbands the fact that they've spent more money on LLR purchases.
How shady is that!
I've noticed in all my hobbies (sewing, quilting, knitting, vinyl transfer, nail polish) there is a huge amount of talk of getting purchases hidden from husbands. It's kind of sickening.
-
Wow. I can't imagine lying to my husband about money. If he did, I'd wonder what else he was lying to me about.
-
Check out the LLR map. No idea if this is actual # of consultants or if these are the consultants who wanted to be listed, but that's a ton of market saturation!
https://www.lularoe.com/shop-lularoe/
As for the new Noir collection, WTH is pastel black? Gray, perhaps? Or is it the color that their black will fade to after a wash? The current running joke is that they have taken all the consultant returns and dyed them black for this new line. :)
-
YES! That was something that happened at a jewelry party I went to years ago. At the end of the presentation she talked about being able to hide purchases on the credit card so that husbands wouldn't see.
HORRIFYING! It was treated as a joke and everybody laughed. I couldn't believe it, because the women were all heavy hitters at my church and hiding purchases from your husband just seemed so antithetical from anything I've ever heard about marriage at church.
-
I'll admit to owning and loving a couple pairs of LLR leggings. Expensive, yes, but I don't consider $25 for pants to be obscene./confession
Anyway, I'm still a part of several groups on Facebook which I joined while I was looking for prints I liked when I was shopping for my pairs. Some sellers actually offer a service where they will put a "Congratulations! You won this!" note in the packages, so that women can hide from their husbands the fact that they've spent more money on LLR purchases.
How shady is that!
I've noticed in all my hobbies (sewing, quilting, knitting, vinyl transfer, nail polish) there is a huge amount of talk of getting purchases hidden from husbands. It's kind of sickening.
When I was in a triathlon club, one of the male triathletes had a training bike, a fabulously expensive aero road bike and a fabulously expensive triathlon bike. They were all all matt-black Specialized bikes with red graphics and bar tape, because that way he could keep one at the office and not have his wife realise he'd spent four thousand euro on a Venge frameset.
-
I was scoping out a local (NJ) Women's Expo for my business last month. It is basically an expo for women to shop. There were a couple hundred booths set up with things such as jewelry, skincare, oils, tarot readers, hair care, some clothes, and various things like that. There were not 1, not 2, but 3 LaLaRue booths!! And one of them was a giant booth that took up two spaces. Each space is $750 to rent for 2 days. Crazy! ...and there were customers in their booths.
As someone who goes to a fair number of expos/conferences/conventions as an exhibitor, I can tell you that $750 for a 10x10 booth is actually on the cheap end of things. Depending on what show we're at, it can be three times that cost. Of course, all those MLM sellers are hoping to make back not only their $750, but the cost of the goods they're selling, and then make enough money to take something home. I find it a bit hard to believe they made a profit :)
I attended a local Women's Conference recently. A 10 x 10 corner booth was $875, plus the cost of carpeting, walls, electrical and internet access. They had an entire section of the trade floor devoted to "women owned businesses". There was a handful of vendors who actually made their own items. Everything else covered the gamut of the biggest MLM's right now, to the guy on the corner who sells "closeout" 1200 TC sheet sets for $20. Sadly, most of the women in the trade floor were there to shop. Only a few of us saw the irony of allowing these MLM's, who exploit women, to be at a women's conference. I received a survey after the event, and I made my feelings known about the subject. I doubt it will change anything.
-
Someone posted on facebook today, looking for a "Younique dealer" (a make-up MLM). I live in a fairly small town (about 14k people). Curious, I looked on city-data and found that about 6k of those people are female. Let's say 2/3 of those women are at an age where they wear makeup. That leaves a max customer base of 4k people to sell to (many of the women in this town don't wear makeup though, and if they do, they use a much cheaper brand you can find at the store...but, we'll go with 4k anyway).
Response to that one request? 27 "bossbabes". 27. Our town doesn't even have a Walmart, but we have 27 people (at least) trying to hawk an expensive makeup.
I know people want to have a "downline", so they can make money off them, but at some point there are just too many people selling the same thing. I haven't paid much attention to how many MLM sellers there are for each company, but I think I may start to pay attention. I know that there were a lot of Visalus (or whatever the shake company was called) sellers for a while, but I think most gave up.
Doesn't it only take like 14 cycles before you have recruited everyone on Earth or so?
-
Someone posted on facebook today, looking for a "Younique dealer" (a make-up MLM). I live in a fairly small town (about 14k people). Curious, I looked on city-data and found that about 6k of those people are female. Let's say 2/3 of those women are at an age where they wear makeup. That leaves a max customer base of 4k people to sell to (many of the women in this town don't wear makeup though, and if they do, they use a much cheaper brand you can find at the store...but, we'll go with 4k anyway).
Response to that one request? 27 "bossbabes". 27. Our town doesn't even have a Walmart, but we have 27 people (at least) trying to hawk an expensive makeup.
I know people want to have a "downline", so they can make money off them, but at some point there are just too many people selling the same thing. I haven't paid much attention to how many MLM sellers there are for each company, but I think I may start to pay attention. I know that there were a lot of Visalus (or whatever the shake company was called) sellers for a while, but I think most gave up.
Doesn't it only take like 14 cycles before you have recruited everyone on Earth or so?
But that's only true for a pyramid scheme! ;)
-
Someone posted on facebook today, looking for a "Younique dealer" (a make-up MLM). I live in a fairly small town (about 14k people). Curious, I looked on city-data and found that about 6k of those people are female. Let's say 2/3 of those women are at an age where they wear makeup. That leaves a max customer base of 4k people to sell to (many of the women in this town don't wear makeup though, and if they do, they use a much cheaper brand you can find at the store...but, we'll go with 4k anyway).
Response to that one request? 27 "bossbabes". 27. Our town doesn't even have a Walmart, but we have 27 people (at least) trying to hawk an expensive makeup.
I know people want to have a "downline", so they can make money off them, but at some point there are just too many people selling the same thing. I haven't paid much attention to how many MLM sellers there are for each company, but I think I may start to pay attention. I know that there were a lot of Visalus (or whatever the shake company was called) sellers for a while, but I think most gave up.
Doesn't it only take like 14 cycles before you have recruited everyone on Earth or so?
But that's only true for a pyramid scheme! ;)
Not like this!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CTOgK8oQep4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CTOgK8oQep4)
-
YES! That was something that happened at a jewelry party I went to years ago. At the end of the presentation she talked about being able to hide purchases on the credit card so that husbands wouldn't see.
Typical in Mary Kay also. They say "it's easier to beg forgiveness, than to ask for permission". Meaning you should use the credit card to buy 5K of inventory, then beg for forgiveness if the husband finds out.
I'm sure hiding financial issues from one's spouse is a great formula for a successful marriage.
-
Doesn't it only take like 14 cycles before you have recruited everyone on Earth or so?
Yes, 14 levels of recruits with each distributor recruiting 3 distributors under them comes to about 7.2 billion people. It might take 22 cycles if every distributor only recruits 2 people as direct downlines, or only 11 cycles if each level recurits 4. Gotta build the business, sales don't really matter.
-
Check out the LLR map. No idea if this is actual # of consultants or if these are the consultants who wanted to be listed, but that's a ton of market saturation!
https://www.lularoe.com/shop-lularoe/
As for the new Noir collection, WTH is pastel black? Gray, perhaps? Or is it the color that their black will fade to after a wash? The current running joke is that they have taken all the consultant returns and dyed them black for this new line. :)
It's not all the consultants. I know a few people who are and they are not on the map. So, the market is even more saturated that the map shows.
-
Just recently had a good friend's spouse start up with Monat that recently starting posting more and more desperately. (such as #friendshelpfriends along with a plea for purchases).
I'd usually just ignore this, but this is such a close friend that it will come up and make for some rather awkward conversations.
I was hoping to strike a firm stance on that I don't support MLM's but believe that will lead into a huge conversation of what an MLM is and how Monat must not be one. I have tried finding specific information on this company but they use all the normal tricks (paid for "Is this a scam?" websites that are actually just schilling the product along, etc)
Is anyone good at sleuthing out specific income disclosure statements from these companies. I was under the impression that they had to release these under law (in Canada) but can't seem to find one for Monat. I believe the best argument is similar to the other statements I've read that all lead to "nobody makes any money at these"
ie: https://www.talentedladiesclub.com/articles/why-were-not-publishing-any-more-mlm-income-disclosure-statements/
-
Check out the LLR map. No idea if this is actual # of consultants or if these are the consultants who wanted to be listed, but that's a ton of market saturation!
https://www.lularoe.com/shop-lularoe/
As for the new Noir collection, WTH is pastel black? Gray, perhaps? Or is it the color that their black will fade to after a wash? The current running joke is that they have taken all the consultant returns and dyed them black for this new line. :)
It's not all the consultants. I know a few people who are and they are not on the map. So, the market is even more saturated that the map shows.
Don't remember where I read it, but there was a lot of controversy in the publication of this map. Some people were former consultants, some were current, etc, but they were just put on the map without their knowledge. One woman found out about the map when she got a knock at some ungodly hour, from a woman she didn't know, demanding a refund for damaged leggings that she got from another seller!
-
Just recently had a good friend's spouse start up with Monat that recently starting posting more and more desperately. (such as #friendshelpfriends along with a plea for purchases).
I'd usually just ignore this, but this is such a close friend that it will come up and make for some rather awkward conversations.
I was hoping to strike a firm stance on that I don't support MLM's but believe that will lead into a huge conversation of what an MLM is and how Monat must not be one. I have tried finding specific information on this company but they use all the normal tricks (paid for "Is this a scam?" websites that are actually just schilling the product along, etc)
Is anyone good at sleuthing out specific income disclosure statements from these companies. I was under the impression that they had to release these under law (in Canada) but can't seem to find one for Monat. I believe the best argument is similar to the other statements I've read that all lead to "nobody makes any money at these"
ie: https://www.talentedladiesclub.com/articles/why-were-not-publishing-any-more-mlm-income-disclosure-statements/
Their compensation plan (for the US anyway)
http://monatglobal.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/Compensation-Plan_US_052017.pdf
I found this for Canada...
http://www.average2awesome.com/uploads/1/6/0/6/16063634/canadian-compensation-plan.pdf
This is on the last page (bolding is mine, for emphasis):
"The primary source of income of a typical participant in the Compensation Plan (the “Plan” or the “Canadian Plan”) of MONAT Global Canada ULC. (“MONAT”) is from compensation on personal and downline sales of products and/or services. Personal earnings will vary. A Typical Participant in the Plan is defined as a participant who actively engages in the activities necessary to realize the benefits of the Plan (i.e. has achieved at least the rank of Managing Market Partner).
A Typical Participant in the Plan earns between Cdn $22 and $1,188 annualized.
Please note that these earnings are estimates and have been derived from the earnings experience of MONAT’s U.S. parent company, which operates similar and comparable compensation plans, selling comparable products in the United States and worldwide. These earnings estimates will be reviewed after 6 months of operation of the Canadian Plan. After one year, this Statement of Typical Participant Earnings will be updated with compensation actually received by typical participants in the Canadian Plan, and then updated annually thereafter."
So, a typical seller could make $1.83 to $99 per month! Ouch.
-
I'll admit to owning and loving a couple pairs of LLR leggings. Expensive, yes, but I don't consider $25 for pants to be obscene./confession
Anyway, I'm still a part of several groups on Facebook which I joined while I was looking for prints I liked when I was shopping for my pairs. Some sellers actually offer a service where they will put a "Congratulations! You won this!" note in the packages, so that women can hide from their husbands the fact that they've spent more money on LLR purchases.
How shady is that!
I've noticed in all my hobbies (sewing, quilting, knitting, vinyl transfer, nail polish) there is a huge amount of talk of getting purchases hidden from husbands. It's kind of sickening.
When I was in a triathlon club, one of the male triathletes had a training bike, a fabulously expensive aero road bike and a fabulously expensive triathlon bike. They were all all matt-black Specialized bikes with red graphics and bar tape, because that way he could keep one at the office and not have his wife realise he'd spent four thousand euro on a Venge frameset.
A Christian girl who was friends with my husband's family got married young. As soon as the wedding was over, she started buying baby things - not a onesie here or there, but the big ticket items. She bought a pram, cot, a baby bath, car seat, etc, and had them all delivered to her workplace so the husband wouldn't know. She also recently 'confessed' on Facebook to having 67 pairs of shoes for her six month-old-daughter.
-
She bought a pram, cot, a baby bath, car seat, etc, and had them all delivered to her workplace so the husband wouldn't know.
Did she keep them in her office? How do you sneak those bulky things into a house?
-
So, a typical seller could make $1.83 to $99 per month! Ouch.
By that comparison, panhandling is downright lucrative and much less stressful.
-
So, a typical seller could make $1.83 to $99 per month! Ouch.
By that comparison, panhandling is downright lucrative and much less stressful.
And in general, in those "compensation plan" disclosures, this is the amount received *before* substracting expenses. The typical seller actually loses money in these schemes, if they properly take expenses into account.
-
Tis the season! So far I have been invited to a Pampered Chef Party at a friend's house and for an online Young Living EO party.
I also saw some flyers for local craft fairs and they listed the types of vendors. At first I was excited about the craft fairs because I crochet and knit and am considering doing a craft fair next year, then I saw that out of 50 vendors so far signed up about 30 of them were MLM companies! How are those even in the same category as crafts?
-
Want wants to work that hard for $1500 a year? Who wants to strain their social relations that hard for $1500?
Most regular folks could probably find multiples of that in savings if they applied MMM tactics to their family spending.
-
Did she keep them in her office? How do you sneak those bulky things into a house?
Probably had an office baby shower and brought home the bulk of the purchases along with the gifts from the shower.
-
Their compensation plan (for the US anyway)
http://monatglobal.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/Compensation-Plan_US_052017.pdf
I found this for Canada...
http://www.average2awesome.com/uploads/1/6/0/6/16063634/canadian-compensation-plan.pdf
This is on the last page (bolding is mine, for emphasis):
"The primary source of income of a typical participant in the Compensation Plan (the “Plan” or the “Canadian Plan”) of MONAT Global Canada ULC. (“MONAT”) is from compensation on personal and downline sales of products and/or services. Personal earnings will vary. A Typical Participant in the Plan is defined as a participant who actively engages in the activities necessary to realize the benefits of the Plan (i.e. has achieved at least the rank of Managing Market Partner).
A Typical Participant in the Plan earns between Cdn $22 and $1,188 annualized.
Please note that these earnings are estimates and have been derived from the earnings experience of MONAT’s U.S. parent company, which operates similar and comparable compensation plans, selling comparable products in the United States and worldwide. These earnings estimates will be reviewed after 6 months of operation of the Canadian Plan. After one year, this Statement of Typical Participant Earnings will be updated with compensation actually received by typical participants in the Canadian Plan, and then updated annually thereafter."
So, a typical seller could make $1.83 to $99 per month! Ouch.
Thank you! I totally missed that last line... and I find it quite hilarious that the Canadian document says they will update within 6 months and then they completely remove that line from their later statements. Those 6 months must have showed that it was even worse than 1.83 to 99 per month.
I wish there was more of a push for regulation on these companies, they are literally ruining peoples lives while focusing on the most vulnerable population to these scams. Failed pyramid scheme legislation.. just having a product doesn't make it not predacious.
-
I got suckered into one of these many many years ago. I was young and dumb but don't regret it because I learned a valuable lesson! Anyway, I was following Dave Ramsey at the time and desperately trying to get my debts paid off, I was making decent money but wanted to make as much as I could to ramp things up faster. I was told it was a very different type of company. I don't remember the name of it anymore (maybe someone else on here will recognize it). Anyway, it's a company where you sign people up for services that they are already using, but when they sign up through you then you get a small percentage each time they pay their monthly bill. Services like cell phones, cable tv, internet, even some electricity. It was 100% an MLM as you also had to sign people up to start working under you and also get people to sign up, and so on. My friend that got me involved told me it was how he was able to take a year off of work and spend time with his daughter instead. He gave a good talk so I got involved.
Anyway, my ONE requirement when I signed up was that I would NOT for ANY reason bug family/friends. I would offer it to them if they wanted but I would not pressure anyone. I told them they had to show me different ways to gain customers or I would not be involved. They promised it would be easy to find customers because most people have cell phones, electricity, cable, satellite tv, etc...
Within days of signing up my "mentor" tried to force me into giving him the phone numbers of everyone in my family/friends list so he could call them all and pester them. When I refused he got upset and tried to tell me it was required. He drove me nuts for weeks, I started completely ignoring his messages and when I would listen to his voicemails they always sounded like he was talking to me like a little kid and I needed to do what the "grownup" told me to do. (Not really of course, but that's how it felt).
I called and cancelled my "membership" and never spoke to him again.
Awhile later the friend of mine who talked me into signing up admitted that it was all a scam and he never really made any money off of it.
-
Thank you! I totally missed that last line... and I find it quite hilarious that the Canadian document says they will update within 6 months and then they completely remove that line from their later statements. Those 6 months must have showed that it was even worse than 1.83 to 99 per month.
I wish there was more of a push for regulation on these companies, they are literally ruining peoples lives while focusing on the most vulnerable population to these scams. Failed pyramid scheme legislation.. just having a product doesn't make it not predacious.
If you are looking for the ultimate article in MLM's in general, John Taylor has produced a great article called "Multi-Level Marketing Unmasked: A Complete and Compelling Case against MLM as an Unfair and Deceptive Practice" This a 476 page read. Its a convincing, logical, worthwhile read. I do believe there is a 40 page condensed version of this. I'll attach the condensed version for your convenience (but the last time I did this, it only posted on this forum for a short while. The full version is worth reading.)
-
I got suckered into one of these many many years ago. I was young and dumb but don't regret it because I learned a valuable lesson! Anyway, I was following Dave Ramsey at the time and desperately trying to get my debts paid off, I was making decent money but wanted to make as much as I could to ramp things up faster. I was told it was a very different type of company. I don't remember the name of it anymore (maybe someone else on here will recognize it). Anyway, it's a company where you sign people up for services that they are already using, but when they sign up through you then you get a small percentage each time they pay their monthly bill. Services like cell phones, cable tv, internet, even some electricity. It was 100% an MLM as you also had to sign people up to start working under you and also get people to sign up, and so on. My friend that got me involved told me it was how he was able to take a year off of work and spend time with his daughter instead. He gave a good talk so I got involved.
Anyway, my ONE requirement when I signed up was that I would NOT for ANY reason bug family/friends. I would offer it to them if they wanted but I would not pressure anyone. I told them they had to show me different ways to gain customers or I would not be involved. They promised it would be easy to find customers because most people have cell phones, electricity, cable, satellite tv, etc...
Within days of signing up my "mentor" tried to force me into giving him the phone numbers of everyone in my family/friends list so he could call them all and pester them. When I refused he got upset and tried to tell me it was required. He drove me nuts for weeks, I started completely ignoring his messages and when I would listen to his voicemails they always sounded like he was talking to me like a little kid and I needed to do what the "grownup" told me to do. (Not really of course, but that's how it felt).
I called and cancelled my "membership" and never spoke to him again.
Awhile later the friend of mine who talked me into signing up admitted that it was all a scam and he never really made any money off of it.
They're still around in some form. I don't remember the name, but I remember being hit up for this kind of service within the last year or two (State Fair? Somebody had a booth or a table). Now it's going to bug me until I figure it out.
-
Anyway, my ONE requirement when I signed up was that I would NOT for ANY reason bug family/friends.
Within days of signing up my "mentor" tried to force me into giving him the phone numbers of everyone in my family/friends list so he could call them all and pester them.
This is the challenge -- many sales "jobs" require you to provide a contact list that you start calling to generate sales, starting with friends and family. This includes the commissioned vacuum cleaner sales (filter queen,kirby etc), financial product sales (some of which are MLM), cutco knives, legal aid contracts, and the utility contracts.
Some of these sales jobs even generate some commission $'s for the people that start working for them, for a little while.. but usually far less than minimum wage.
Oh so many of them know that you will only sell to a few family and friends, and then you are done. You are only "hired" on commission to sell a few units to your grandmother, who wants to help you succeed, but doesn't need a knife set..
The challenge with the MLM scenario posted by mydogismyheart -- is that your UPLINE wants to use your contact list to generate commissions for himself!! Sometimes it is under the guise of training you, but in the end the $$'s goes to your "trainer", not you because they fill out the form and sign the client up directly under the trainer's name. YUCK.
-
Anyway, my ONE requirement when I signed up was that I would NOT for ANY reason bug family/friends.
Within days of signing up my "mentor" tried to force me into giving him the phone numbers of everyone in my family/friends list so he could call them all and pester them.
This is the challenge -- many sales "jobs" require you to provide a contact list that you start calling to generate sales, starting with friends and family. This includes the commissioned vacuum cleaner sales (filter queen,kirby etc), financial product sales (some of which are MLM), cutco knives, legal aid contracts, and the utility contracts.
Some of these sales jobs even generate some commission $'s for the people that start working for them, for a little while.. but usually far less than minimum wage.
Oh so many of them know that you will only sell to a few family and friends, and then you are done. You are only "hired" on commission to sell a few units to your grandmother, who wants to help you succeed, but doesn't need a knife set..
The challenge with the MLM scenario posted by mydogismyheart -- is that your UPLINE wants to use your contact list to generate commissions for himself!! Sometimes it is under the guise of training you, but in the end the $$'s goes to your "trainer", not you because they fill out the form and sign the client up directly under the trainer's name. YUCK.
There is a huge misconception that the old-school door-to-door salesman gets paid the same as those that are in MLMs. Old-school door-to-door salesman do NOT get paid the same as those that are in MLMs - as the old school salesman gets most of his income from the sales of the product and some from his ("guaranteed") hourly wage/salary. The MLM promotor rarely makes money from sales and "makes" his/her money from recruiting and having a "downline." As earlier mentioned, to make commission from the downline, they need to make monthly/ongoing purchases. So ultimately, the vast majority of money they receive is from those in their downline and all/most of their profit is also going to their upline. This by definition, is a pyramid scheme.
-
I was unclear. I am not saying that commissioned sales people == MLMs, just that the poster's comment about the upline taking your contact leads for themselves is similar between some MLMs and some commissioned sales jobs.
All of the companies I named are supposed to pay minimum wages to employees as a "floor", and none of them here do, rather the "sales person" gets pushed out shortly after they hand over their personal contact lists. At the end of the day that $99 per month MLM income listed is pretty typical of the sales commissions received by my friends.
-
Wow I just don't know where to start with this.
I heard an ad on the radio for a LuLaRoe Holiday Extravaganza. Apparently 48 LuLaRoe distributors are getting together to have a big sale for the holidays.
-
I heard a statistic that only a small percent of people who work commission-only sales jobs, earn enough to make a living. Can't remember the percent but it was five percent, maybe? My impression is that the company who employs them doesn't really care if they earn a living or not. If they sell even one product, the company makes money. They will also make exaggerated claims about the earning potential of the job.
There's been an increase in door-to-door salespeople since the Do Not Call registry went into effect, making telemarketing more difficult.
-
I got suckered into one of these many many years ago. I was young and dumb but don't regret it because I learned a valuable lesson! Anyway, I was following Dave Ramsey at the time and desperately trying to get my debts paid off, I was making decent money but wanted to make as much as I could to ramp things up faster. I was told it was a very different type of company. I don't remember the name of it anymore (maybe someone else on here will recognize it). Anyway, it's a company where you sign people up for services that they are already using, but when they sign up through you then you get a small percentage each time they pay their monthly bill. Services like cell phones, cable tv, internet, even some electricity. It was 100% an MLM as you also had to sign people up to start working under you and also get people to sign up, and so on. My friend that got me involved told me it was how he was able to take a year off of work and spend time with his daughter instead. He gave a good talk so I got involved.
Anyway, my ONE requirement when I signed up was that I would NOT for ANY reason bug family/friends. I would offer it to them if they wanted but I would not pressure anyone. I told them they had to show me different ways to gain customers or I would not be involved. They promised it would be easy to find customers because most people have cell phones, electricity, cable, satellite tv, etc...
Within days of signing up my "mentor" tried to force me into giving him the phone numbers of everyone in my family/friends list so he could call them all and pester them. When I refused he got upset and tried to tell me it was required. He drove me nuts for weeks, I started completely ignoring his messages and when I would listen to his voicemails they always sounded like he was talking to me like a little kid and I needed to do what the "grownup" told me to do. (Not really of course, but that's how it felt).
I called and cancelled my "membership" and never spoke to him again.
Awhile later the friend of mine who talked me into signing up admitted that it was all a scam and he never really made any money off of it.
ACN
When I was going to college, I worked for the forest service and my entire station (about 15 people) got hooked into this. From day one, when they asked me to join, I told them it was a damn pyramid scheme and they were all idiots for getting suckered into it. I actually did one of their taxes for several years after. He made a couple hundred dollars in total but shelled out thousands attending conferences and training. It took about four years before he finally acknowledged it was a scam.
-
By that comparison, panhandling is downright lucrative and much less stressful.
And at least panhadlers don't try to recruit others into thier scheme!
-
I'm afraid I'm being drawn into another MLM. I'm facebook friends with a girl I went to grad school with and even though we haven't seen each other in person in the last few years, we still comment on each other's facebook stuff. She messaged me last night and asked how I've been, and that she saw I finally moved back closer to her. She said that we need to get coffee and catch up and I said sure, that sounds great. Then I got a spidey-sense that this interaction seemed suspiciously like an MLM. I went to her page and saw for the past few days she has been posting her normal craft pictures (she makes all kinds of quilted things and baby clothes to sell on her etsy page) but they all have these doterra essential oils in the pictures as well. Yup, I'm pretty sure I'm going to get a sales pitch instead of catching up. I went to her blog and there is a tab at the top now for "essential oils" and it is definitely an MLM. Ugh.
-
Just cancel the coffee date, then. It's obvious what's coming.
-
Just cancel the coffee date, then. It's obvious what's coming.
Or tell her you'd be happy to have coffee, but have no interest in essential oils. That might lead her to cancel, but then you'll know.
-
Yup, I'm pretty sure I'm going to get a sales pitch instead of catching up.
I'd give the friend the benefit of the doubt. I'm sure she'll bring up her essential oils; but if you're polite but firm that you're not interested, she might be smart enough just spend a little time catching up and keep a friendship. If not, you'll know that she only sees you as a potential client/downline.
-
My roommate was telling me yesterday that he had a friend being suckered into an MLM, but one that seemed "less bad" than most. I gave him a deeply skeptical look, but he insisted most people don't actually lose money even though most people don't make much either.
The company is Rodan & Fields; I've already unfollowed people on facebook who won't shut up about it. I'm assuming his being suckered means they've just done some excellent marketing, but out of curiosity, can anyone here confirm or deny?
Confirm that's it's an MLM? You betcha. It's mentioned in this thread a couple times. One of my friends just joined them, but considering she has a massive Etsy side-hustle already going I expect she'll be one of the few who can actually make some money at it (not nearly enough to live off of though).
-
The company is Rodan & Fields; I've already unfollowed people on facebook who won't shut up about it. I'm assuming his being suckered means they've just done some excellent marketing, but out of curiosity, can anyone here confirm or deny?
I have a friend (who's trying to make a full-time living off it, and might actually do well) who got into Rodan & Fields. It's definitely an MLM. As far as I can tell, it's expensive but the products actually work-- maybe that's why it's "not as bad as others"? I unfollowed her, though!
-
The company is Rodan & Fields; I've already unfollowed people on facebook who won't shut up about it. I'm assuming his being suckered means they've just done some excellent marketing, but out of curiosity, can anyone here confirm or deny?
I have a friend (who's trying to make a full-time living off it, and might actually do well) who got into Rodan & Fields. It's definitely an MLM. As far as I can tell, it's expensive but the products actually work-- maybe that's why it's "not as bad as others"? I unfollowed her, though!
I guarantee that your friend will not do well with it. Guarantee. They may put on the facade that they are doing well, but the math doesn't lie.
Google "John Taylor MLM pdf" and he has some amazing articles that delve into MLM's - which includes the probability of people making money from these schemes.
It is a far greater possibility that a person is: 1. lying about how well they are doing with MLM's or 2. a shill that is pushing the MLM's products.
-
Want to laugh at Younique (makeup) "CEOs"? Check out https://www.reddit.com/r/Youniqueamua/ (https://www.reddit.com/r/Youniqueamua/)
-
I've got some cousins and old friends who bought into the plexus scam. My cousin posted about it religiously on facebook and I was so disappointed when the cousin got the old friend (long story short - my cousin married the son of long time family friends) to start posting about it on facebook all the time too. Same old garbage posts like "I feel great and love being my own boss." The old friend is not in a financial position to be blowing money on plexus orders (though who really is?).
-
I'll just drop this right here...
http://www.scarymommy.com/mlm-bossbabe-guide/?utm_source=FB
-
I'll just drop this right here...
http://www.scarymommy.com/mlm-bossbabe-guide/?utm_source=FB
THANK YOU!
-
I'll just drop this right here...
http://www.scarymommy.com/mlm-bossbabe-guide/?utm_source=FB
THANK YOU!
That. Was. Brilliant.
-
I can't believe I missed this thread.
I have a coworker who is very good at her job. When we worked together, she was THE top performer for 4 years straight, despite being new to the role when others had been there for decades. Our organization is pretty flat, so there aren't a lot of promotions, and the way to get one of the few that exist is to volunteer for side projects to show that you can do things outside of your core job.
Well, she got a new boss who she didn't get along with, and got sucked into Rodan and Fields at around the same time. So she decided that she would stop doing anything extra at her job, just her core responsibilities, to focus on her #girlboss #mompreneur "business".
She almost certainly would have gotten a promotion and a $10-20k raise had she not done that. She makes $70-80k as it is.
-
I'll just drop this right here...
http://www.scarymommy.com/mlm-bossbabe-guide/?utm_source=FB
I never knew hashtags could be this enjoyable.
-
Loved that piece, and the LulaRose one:
http://www.scarymommy.com/thats-enough-lularoe/
Listen, I’m sure the leggings are really comfy. I’m sure angels sing beautiful hymns of praise and glory as you pull those LuLaRoes over your tired mom hips. But, seriously, if they were that amazing, wouldn’t Target carry them? Wouldn’t I be able to buy them on Amazon in the way the good Lord intended — during a Prime and Wine shop-a-thon on my couch?
-
I find it surprising that Dave Ramsey, financial guru, doesn't warn people about the risks of getting involved in MLM. He's actually addressed it but in a very low key way, that doesn't get the point across at all, that MLMs are often risky and financially foolish. Just as bad as someone getting into CC debt or over spending or buying things they can't afford. Yet, he doesn't really aggressively address it.
MLMs are rampant in the conservative Christian world. They are seen as an acceptable way for women to earn some income in cultures where they are discouraged from working outside the home. I suspect Dave doesn't want to alienate this group of people because they are a core part of his demographic.
It's because of probably the risk of being sued. Even the podcast I listen to, he didn't outright name any companies. He had to really use a round about way of saying these are scams. Even John Oliver's MLM video did not name some companies and some aspects he didn't mention. It's funny though that under his video you see people going "why didn't you say this company or that company." I want to be like, he has 20 minutes to pretty much inform you about something. Go to google and research it yourself...
I think that's my one defense for John Oliver. I don't understand criticisms about how he doesn't mention certain things. You should not be expecting a 20 minute video on the key stone pipeline to give you all the information about it. With that said I do skip almost all his political videos in terms of actual political candidates. I prefer to read about American politics on international news because a Swahili or French newspaper does not care about political affiliations. They'll just tell you what happened
-
One of my friends just started selling for a natural skin care line. I hadn't heard of this one before.
OMG- I am ready for her to be less excited about it. It is 90% of my facebook right now.
-
I find it surprising that Dave Ramsey, financial guru, doesn't warn people about the risks of getting involved in MLM. He's actually addressed it but in a very low key way, that doesn't get the point across at all, that MLMs are often risky and financially foolish. Just as bad as someone getting into CC debt or over spending or buying things they can't afford. Yet, he doesn't really aggressively address it.
MLMs are rampant in the conservative Christian world. They are seen as an acceptable way for women to earn some income in cultures where they are discouraged from working outside the home. I suspect Dave doesn't want to alienate this group of people because they are a core part of his demographic.
It's because of probably the risk of being sued. Even the podcast I listen to, he didn't outright name any companies. He had to really use a round about way of saying these are scams. Even John Oliver's MLM video did not name some companies and some aspects he didn't mention. It's funny though that under his video you see people going "why didn't you say this company or that company." I want to be like, he has 20 minutes to pretty much inform you about something. Go to google and research it yourself...
I think that's my one defense for John Oliver. I don't understand criticisms about how he doesn't mention certain things. You should not be expecting a 20 minute video on the key stone pipeline to give you all the information about it. With that said I do skip almost all his political videos in terms of actual political candidates. I prefer to read about American politics on international news because a Swahili or French newspaper does not care about political affiliations. They'll just tell you what happened
Your whole post was spot on, especially about getting the news about the USA from foreign sources. of course some source vetting is important. I gave Russia Today a try once upon a time.
-
I've been seeing the following "Sponsored" ads on Facebook more often days. I HATE them with a passion - for many reasons. #itsapyramidscheme Last night I decided to (waste my time and) further inform myself about what they are all about.
DO YOU HAVE A 9-5 JOB THAT YOU HATE?......
www.realnameofscammers.com
DO YOU NOT HAVE ENOUGH TIME TO SPEND WITH YOUR FAMILY?.......
ARE YOU STRUGGLING AND NOT MAKING ENOUGH MONEY TO GET AHEAD IN LIFE?.....
If you've said "yes" to any of these then hear me out and I'll point you in the right direction to CHANGE YOUR LIFE. I'll let you know how an uneducated guy with a troubled past has an online business.
I said "yes" to all of those things a few months ago and took the step to changing my life and living the life that I want. First let me tell you about myself.
I grew up with not the best childhood. I was in and out of foster homes growing up, don't have any family support, got into some trouble, and never completed high school. I felt like my life wasn't going anywhere and wasn't going to accomplish much in life.
www.realnameofscammers.com
I've had many health issues. I'm 33 years old and already had heart surgery, have asthma, and have chronic back pain that I have to see a doctor regularly for. This is not the life I want to live being on medication all the time.
I've struggled with paying my bills and constantly in my overdraft. I ended up getting 2 roommates to help out and even with that I was still just getting by, but didn't have any extra funds to enjoy life. My wife and I recently found out we are expecting our first child in March 2017 and this is when I knew I needed to make a change, but how? How is a guy with a troubled past, no education, health issues, and no money able to get ahead in life. Well I'll tell you, my friend.
I came across an ad on Facebook, like you are now. An ad that has now changed my life. It opened my eyes and made me realize I can have a better future for myself and my family. I can quit my construction job and busting my back in a ditch underground, to working from the comfort of my own home. One of the most amazing part is that I finally have support. This team that I have joined is amazing. So much support, positivity, and they want you to succeed.
If you are ready to quit making money for the big guy and being a slave to the old J-O-B and start making your own money then message me or comment and I'll be glad to point you in the right direction. I'm glad I did and so many others are as well. You can also click on the link below to check out the free online workshop. Don't miss out on this great opportunity. What do you have to lose?
www.realnameofscammers.com
Thanks for your time and have a fantastic day!!
I commented that I wanted more info on what this was all about (I was one of 5,475 comments). He gave me a link to a video. The 90 min video told me two things: 1. there is money to be made in the internet. 2. people have been quitting their jobs make money doing this "laptop business".
And all you have to do is pay a one time $99USD membership fee and they will tell you more. Giving only a bit of info at a time he called "micro-commitments." I say, "You can F-off and be cursed for trying to scam people in taking their hard earned cash."
What did I learn from all of this? I hate more than ever, pyramid schemes, MLM's, Network Marketing Companies, or whatever type of name you want to call it! The business model is predatory. I hate seeing good people get suckered into such schemes because they fail to use their mind when an "Opportunity" comes their way.
Thanks for listening, rant over.
-
And all you have to do is pay a one time $99USD membership fee and they will tell you more.
Sounds like the new version of the old bulletin board flyers that promised "Make Lots of Money Stuffing Envelopes" -if you just send $$ to an address. And then you get a letter that instructs you to put up your own flyers that say, 'Make Lots of Money Stuffing Envelopes' and then send them these instructions.
-
And all you have to do is pay a one time $99USD membership fee and they will tell you more.
Sounds like the new version of the old bulletin board flyers that promised "Make Lots of Money Stuffing Envelopes" -if you just send $$ to an address. And then you get a letter that instructs you to put up your own flyers that say, 'Make Lots of Money Stuffing Envelopes' and then send them these instructions.
I knew someone who fell for that. It attracts people who literally have no skills whatsoever. :(
There are machines that fold letters and insert them envelopes. I've worked with these machines and that's what companies that do mass mailings use.
-
...
Within days of signing up my "mentor" tried to force me into giving him the phone numbers of everyone in my family/friends list so he could call them all and pester them. When I refused he got upset and tried to tell me it was required. ....
Even worse is when a friend gives out your name & number to someone in an MLM! I assume they do it for a discount. :( A couple of months ago I got a voice mail from a Cutco salesman saying he'd gotten my # from my friend "Susie" and could I please call him back, he's not trying to sell anything, he just needs to talk to as many people as possible to help him get started in the business. Ugh. I sent him a text along the lines of "Good luck with your new business. I'm not interested in hearing about it, so please take me off your list" and didn't hear from him again.
-
A new (and ridiculous) one I just heard about is people opening dead oysters on Facebook Live. Said oysters have worthless pearls inside them and people pay good money for them.
-
A new (and ridiculous) one I just heard about is people opening dead oysters on Facebook Live. Said oysters have worthless pearls inside them and people pay good money for them.
I remember people selling the pearl thing at stuff like state fair at least 20 years ago, but it sounds like facebook has made it all go crazy!
https://www.buzzfeed.com/leticiamiranda/pearl-parties-are-taking-over-facebook-live-but-buyer-beware?utm_term=.dgVvmM184#.eo4ne2Pky (some annoying gifs in this one)
I just love it every time this thread pops up!
-
No annoying gifs in this one:
http://www.pearl-guide.com/forum/showthread.php?11002-Questions-About-Oyster-Opening-Pearl-Parties
-
Saw this today: https://imgur.com/gallery/5rRzv
-
Saw this today: https://imgur.com/gallery/5rRzv
She handled that better than a lot of other folks would. The fact that her upline is telling her to ignore her family and she's just spamming her ads in the conversation rather than actually communicating is why folks accuse MLMs of being cults.
-
A few months ago I joined a Facebook group someone made for moms in our area. We live in a nice expensive suburb of about 8000 people in total. Not long after joining I got a friend request from a woman in the area. Immediately I could see she was an MLM seller but I accepted just to see. She has not yet made any kind of an attempt to talk to me directly about any of this (I think she may have googled me and realized I had a grown up job that would make it unlikely I would be interested) but now I have the privilege of seeing her in my newsfeed all the time and it is really a fascinating case study into how some of these MLMs work.
I am still not sure if she is some kind of a super deluded victim of some of the people she is constantly thanking as her mentors or is actually a bit higher up in this food chain as she does seem to have a lot of women who worship her.
But either way, I am rather fascinated by how supermanipulative this whole narrative seems to be. She is constantly posting motivational and inspirational bullshit, but I noticed how the common theme for it all is to make sure not to listen to the negative people. It's like they are obviously working really hard to make sure that they can a priori discredit any voice of reason a potential recruit could have in her life.
She also refers to the company she is selling for (Nuskin) as "company I am partnered with" which is something I haven't heard before but I guess is meant to make it sound like more of a legit business she was running completely independently of the people who are running the Nuskin business before they partnered up lol.
I don't know if this is sad or funny.
-
She also refers to the company she is selling for (Nuskin) as "company I am partnered with" which is something I haven't heard before but I guess is meant to make it sound like more of a legit business she was running completely independently of the people who are running the Nuskin business before they partnered up lol.
I don't know if this is sad or funny.
Sad in a "we all know they're getting screwed and can't reason with them. Funny in a "wow people can really be this deluded?"
"Partner" is a euphemism for publicly recognizing their business doesn't really exist and they're just a customer of the parent company themselves.
-
I am still not sure if she is some kind of a super deluded victim of some of the people she is constantly thanking as her mentors or is actually a bit higher up in this food chain as she does seem to have a lot of women who worship her.
I'm not sure having a lot of women in your comments is any designation on how food chain position. Someone I know had 100+ likes/comments to virtually every MLM social media post within a week or two of signing up. I think part of the "job" is committing to boosting everyone else's social media counts.
-
"Partner" is a euphemism for publicly recognizing their business doesn't really exist and they're just a customer of the parent company themselves.
I thought 'partner' was their way of trying to reconcile their self employed, own business, #bossbabe posts with 'I'm a non-minimum-wage-guaranteed sales rep for X company's tat'
-
I got the impression she recruited quite a few people in her downline. This is a very affluent area so I am guessing it's fairly easy for new recruits to sell a lot of stuff to their friends and families in the first few weeks of their amazing new business. She is now posting all about qualifying for some kind of an all-expenses paid trip so it's either all fake (I guess that's likely) or she has drawn in enough of unsuspecting fellow moms to actually be "valuable" to the "partner" company.
I am somehow genuinely curious to know more about these people and the way this all works (I have a degree in psychology) but sadly I don't really have the time to attend one of her parties just for "research" purposes.
I somehow feel sorry for a lot of these women. I can totally get the appeal, I was working in bed yesterday while my son was building lego next to me. It is so infinitely superior to having to spend most of your day in an office but I have a real job with benefits, not an illusion of one.
That is, I feel sorry for those who get sucked into this with naive dreams, I don't feel so sorry for those who consciously fake it in order to build a downline, hence my desire to study this further in order to really get an idea of this woman. Not that it matters beyond the fact my kids go to public school and this is a small place so there is always some interaction.
-
I am somehow genuinely curious to know more about these people and the way this all works (I have a degree in psychology)
havregryn, this link may be of interest to you. http://www.mlm-thetruth.com/what-mlm-is-like/ (http://www.mlm-thetruth.com/what-mlm-is-like/)
The most comprehensive read on the topic is the article/ebook written by Jon M Taylor called "Multi-Level Marketing Unmasked." If you google that, you can find it in PDF format. There are a few versions of it. The most comprehensive one is over 400 pages long. A truly fascinating read.
Here is the link to that article: http://www.mlm-thetruth.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/MLMunmasked-5-1-2017-CURRENT-1.pdf (http://www.mlm-thetruth.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/MLMunmasked-5-1-2017-CURRENT-1.pdf)
I find this stuff mindblowing/mindboggling.
-
"Partner" is a euphemism for publicly recognizing their business doesn't really exist and they're just a customer of the parent company themselves.
I thought 'partner' was their way of trying to reconcile their self employed, own business, #bossbabe posts with 'I'm a non-minimum-wage-guaranteed sales rep for X company's tat'
I'm sure that's what she thinks it means. My definition is just reality after the smoke and mirrors are cleared away.
-
holy goddamn shitsnacks the essential oil voodoo nonsense is taking over my newsfeed
-
"Partner" is a euphemism for publicly recognizing their business doesn't really exist and they're just a customer of the parent company themselves.
I thought 'partner' was their way of trying to reconcile their self employed, own business, #bossbabe posts with 'I'm a non-minimum-wage-guaranteed sales rep for X company's tat'
I'm sure that's what she thinks it means. My definition is just reality after the smoke and mirrors are cleared away.
They’re basically trying to equate the business model to a franchise, where you actually buy a business or a business model and get the name recognition of the large company. But there is a big difference between a owning a Subway and stockpiling leggings in your garage.
-
I'm afraid I'm being drawn into another MLM. I'm facebook friends with a girl I went to grad school with and even though we haven't seen each other in person in the last few years, we still comment on each other's facebook stuff. She messaged me last night and asked how I've been, and that she saw I finally moved back closer to her. She said that we need to get coffee and catch up and I said sure, that sounds great. Then I got a spidey-sense that this interaction seemed suspiciously like an MLM. I went to her page and saw for the past few days she has been posting her normal craft pictures (she makes all kinds of quilted things and baby clothes to sell on her etsy page) but they all have these doterra essential oils in the pictures as well. Yup, I'm pretty sure I'm going to get a sales pitch instead of catching up. I went to her blog and there is a tab at the top now for "essential oils" and it is definitely an MLM. Ugh.
I was recently introduced to one of my husband's CW's wife. We really hit it off and exchanged numbers. A few days later I get a text about how she is having a little "get-together" at her salon to discuss some great new products she know I would be interested in. (we had talked about make-up, skin care, etc.. when had met). My "spidey senses tingled" as well and I said I couldn't make it. I got another text a few days ago about how they were having friends over and wanted to know if I could come and hear about some great new products from Melaleuca. I googled it and sure enough it is what I thought it was...supplements, healthcare and home products. I politely told her that I am pretty set in my ways of what I buy for myself and for my home and no thanks but would like to do lunch sometime. She came back with "Oh, I thought you would like to see how you could improve on what you already do"..... um thanks but no thanks. I haven't heard back. I like her but I am not getting sucked in to that stuff. MY time is precious and I am not going to listen about something I have no interest in.
-
See, the exchange you just explained between you and your husband's CW's wife is a tragedy of our age, in my opinion, @Pioneerw2b.
What in the world is happening to people? When did it become appropriate to co-opt friendship into a business opportunity? Even worse, a horrible, exploitative one that doesn't even work (let's just call it what it is: a SCAM).
Here's a perfectly good budding friendship between two women that could grow into something that would be mutually beneficial to both parties. You enjoy each other's company, and maybe slowly but surely develop into a relationship where you're helping each other out, having each other over for get-togethers, exchanging recipes...one of you has some kind of crisis, the other one is there for you...you know, all the lovely, selfless things that FRIENDSHIPS used to be for.
And this woman totally isolates herself from any of that good stuff by making a budding friendship all about yet another MLM scam. It's bad for society. Now you're going to (rightfully) avoid her and never get to know her, and the husbands are going to feel a little awkward about it at work. It's a crying shame and I hate those companies for ruining the building block of community: friendship.
-
I'm afraid I'm being drawn into another MLM. I'm facebook friends with a girl I went to grad school with and even though we haven't seen each other in person in the last few years, we still comment on each other's facebook stuff. She messaged me last night and asked how I've been, and that she saw I finally moved back closer to her. She said that we need to get coffee and catch up and I said sure, that sounds great. Then I got a spidey-sense that this interaction seemed suspiciously like an MLM. I went to her page and saw for the past few days she has been posting her normal craft pictures (she makes all kinds of quilted things and baby clothes to sell on her etsy page) but they all have these doterra essential oils in the pictures as well. Yup, I'm pretty sure I'm going to get a sales pitch instead of catching up. I went to her blog and there is a tab at the top now for "essential oils" and it is definitely an MLM. Ugh.
I was recently introduced to one of my husband's CW's wife. We really hit it off and exchanged numbers. A few days later I get a text about how she is having a little "get-together" at her salon to discuss some great new products she know I would be interested in. (we had talked about make-up, skin care, etc.. when had met). My "spidey senses tingled" as well and I said I couldn't make it. I got another text a few days ago about how they were having friends over and wanted to know if I could come and hear about some great new products from Melaleuca. I googled it and sure enough it is what I thought it was...supplements, healthcare and home products. I politely told her that I am pretty set in my ways of what I buy for myself and for my home and no thanks but would like to do lunch sometime. She came back with "Oh, I thought you would like to see how you could improve on what you already do"..... um thanks but no thanks. I haven't heard back. I like her but I am not getting sucked in to that stuff. MY time is precious and I am not going to listen about something I have no interest in.
It's amazing how most MLMs don't come with salesmanship training in their starter kits. I don't think I've ever known an MLM seller to actually build a relationship before going in for the kill. Especially with Facebook, it goes from "friend me" to "buy my shit so I can pretend to make your life better" in the space of minutes. Aside from it being antisocial and rude, it reeks of desperation.
-
My Mom sold Avon wen I was in high school for a couple of years. I think it was just to get stuff cheap. I still buy their lip balm online, when it's 99 cents, free shipping, usually buy 50 -100 at a time
I credit that time for introducing me to good skin care, though I may not buy just Avon now.
-
PTF out of morbid curiousity.
I'm ok with going to the occasional Tupperware party (I find the quality to be BIFL and we use it all the time). But am ambivalent about the rest. I haven't been friended just to sell MLM to luckily. There are a few makeup and Jamberry consultants in my broader social circles. They're usually pretty good about it and don't sacrifice friendships for their MLM.
-
See, the exchange you just explained between you and your husband's CW's wife is a tragedy of our age, in my opinion, @Pioneerw2b.
What in the world is happening to people? When did it become appropriate to co-opt friendship into a business opportunity? Even worse, a horrible, exploitative one that doesn't even work (let's just call it what it is: a SCAM).
Here's a perfectly good budding friendship between two women that could grow into something that would be mutually beneficial to both parties. You enjoy each other's company, and maybe slowly but surely develop into a relationship where you're helping each other out, having each other over for get-togethers, exchanging recipes...one of you has some kind of crisis, the other one is there for you...you know, all the lovely, selfless things that FRIENDSHIPS used to be for.
And this woman totally isolates herself from any of that good stuff by making a budding friendship all about yet another MLM scam. It's bad for society. Now you're going to (rightfully) avoid her and never get to know her, and the husbands are going to feel a little awkward about it at work. It's a crying shame and I hate those companies for ruining the building block of community: friendship.
Quoting so I won't have to search to find it again. This needs to be repeated everywhere.
-
See, the exchange you just explained between you and your husband's CW's wife is a tragedy of our age, in my opinion, @Pioneerw2b.
What in the world is happening to people? When did it become appropriate to co-opt friendship into a business opportunity? Even worse, a horrible, exploitative one that doesn't even work (let's just call it what it is: a SCAM).
Here's a perfectly good budding friendship between two women that could grow into something that would be mutually beneficial to both parties. You enjoy each other's company, and maybe slowly but surely develop into a relationship where you're helping each other out, having each other over for get-togethers, exchanging recipes...one of you has some kind of crisis, the other one is there for you...you know, all the lovely, selfless things that FRIENDSHIPS used to be for.
And this woman totally isolates herself from any of that good stuff by making a budding friendship all about yet another MLM scam. It's bad for society. Now you're going to (rightfully) avoid her and never get to know her, and the husbands are going to feel a little awkward about it at work. It's a crying shame and I hate those companies for ruining the building block of community: friendship.
They promote the notion that "financial good for me" is far better than "long-term emotional good for both of us".
In order to be successful at MLM, people either have to either buy into that way of thinking, or sell a flaming metric ton of product because they have vast frienships networks where it's a relatively new, untapped market and where people actualy think the products are cool and want to buy them. The latter situation is extremely rare.
-
Warning: about to derail this thread.
See, the exchange you just explained between you and your husband's CW's wife is a tragedy of our age, in my opinion, @Pioneerw2b.
What in the world is happening to people? When did it become appropriate to co-opt friendship into a business opportunity? Even worse, a horrible, exploitative one that doesn't even work (let's just call it what it is: a SCAM).
Here's a perfectly good budding friendship between two women that could grow into something that would be mutually beneficial to both parties. You enjoy each other's company, and maybe slowly but surely develop into a relationship where you're helping each other out, having each other over for get-togethers, exchanging recipes...one of you has some kind of crisis, the other one is there for you...you know, all the lovely, selfless things that FRIENDSHIPS used to be for.
And this woman totally isolates herself from any of that good stuff by making a budding friendship all about yet another MLM scam. It's bad for society. Now you're going to (rightfully) avoid her and never get to know her, and the husbands are going to feel a little awkward about it at work. It's a crying shame and I hate those companies for ruining the building block of community: friendship.
They promote the notion that "financial good for me" is far better than "long-term emotional good for both of us".
In order to be successful at MLM, people either have to either buy into that way of thinking, or sell a flaming metric ton of product because they have vast frienships networks where it's a relatively new, untapped market and where people actualy think the products are cool and want to buy them. The latter situation is extremely rare.
"Financial good for me is far better than long-term emotional good for both of us" is utterly ridiculous logic. Not that you are arguing for that, @TheGrimSqueaker, but I'm getting a little wound up about the horribly misguided thinking that the statement represents on the part of MLM people.
Here's what they don't understand: good long-term friendships actually have enormous economic value. It's crass to think of friendship in economic terms, but it's the truth. A good network of friends has helped me out of so many jams and done me so many favors. I've done the same for them, of course. When I had my first baby, at least fifteen people brought us meals over a two month period. Same for my second. We swap babysitting with friends. Potluck meals all the time. Mental health in the form of feeling like there are people close by who know me and care about me. Our kids play together...
To trade all that in order to try to recruit a bunch of suckers to be your "downline" while you ostensibly sell them a couple of shrink wrap nails or some face cream ...it completely blows my mind. It's awful. How are people that dumb?
-
Warning: about to derail this thread.
See, the exchange you just explained between you and your husband's CW's wife is a tragedy of our age, in my opinion, @Pioneerw2b.
What in the world is happening to people? When did it become appropriate to co-opt friendship into a business opportunity? Even worse, a horrible, exploitative one that doesn't even work (let's just call it what it is: a SCAM).
Here's a perfectly good budding friendship between two women that could grow into something that would be mutually beneficial to both parties. You enjoy each other's company, and maybe slowly but surely develop into a relationship where you're helping each other out, having each other over for get-togethers, exchanging recipes...one of you has some kind of crisis, the other one is there for you...you know, all the lovely, selfless things that FRIENDSHIPS used to be for.
And this woman totally isolates herself from any of that good stuff by making a budding friendship all about yet another MLM scam. It's bad for society. Now you're going to (rightfully) avoid her and never get to know her, and the husbands are going to feel a little awkward about it at work. It's a crying shame and I hate those companies for ruining the building block of community: friendship.
They promote the notion that "financial good for me" is far better than "long-term emotional good for both of us".
In order to be successful at MLM, people either have to either buy into that way of thinking, or sell a flaming metric ton of product because they have vast frienships networks where it's a relatively new, untapped market and where people actualy think the products are cool and want to buy them. The latter situation is extremely rare.
"Financial good for me is far better than long-term emotional good for both of us" is utterly ridiculous logic. Not that you are arguing for that, @TheGrimSqueaker, but I'm getting a little wound up about the horribly misguided thinking that the statement represents on the part of MLM people.
Here's what they don't understand: good long-term friendships actually have enormous economic value. It's crass to think of friendship in economic terms, but it's the truth. A good network of friends has helped me out of so many jams and done me so many favors. I've done the same for them, of course. When I had my first baby, at least fifteen people brought us meals over a two month period. Same for my second. We swap babysitting with friends. Potluck meals all the time. Mental health in the form of feeling like there are people close by who know me and care about me. Our kids play together...
To trade all that in order to try to recruit a bunch of suckers to be your "downline" while you ostensibly sell them a couple of shrink wrap nails or some face cream ...it completely blows my mind. It's awful. How are people that dumb?
People are that dumb because they have a lower level of maturity and social awareness. They also don't understand social capital.
The interdependence you so eloquently describe is possible only in a community of people who share, take turns, and give to one another knowing that, in their time of need, they will be similarly taken care of. You and your friends have enormous social capital with one another and a great deal of trust and respect. Yet it didn't develop overnight. A new person joining your network will most likely be welcomed, but will not necessarily be given to at the same level as someone such as yourself without proving his or her willingness to contribute.
Babies and small children begin in a state of dependence: "feed me!" is how they operate because they aren't yet able to fend for themselves. As a child ages, they become more independent and seek to feed themselves. But a still higher level of human development comes when people realize-- as you and your friends have done-- that they gain more by cooperating with reliable members of their community than they do by going it alone. And yes, you're completely right about the goods and services exchanged sometimes having a high dollar value particularly over the long term. But in order to attain that benefit, human beings must be intellectually and emotionally developed enough to recognize that life isn't a zero-sum game. Not everyone reaches that level of development. Some get stuck at "independent" and go it alone, at least for a while, and others get stuck at "feed me, Seymour!"
Someone who believes what I mentioned above-- that short-term financial benefit outweighs the benefits of a long-term mutually agreeable friendship-- is stuck at a very low level of emotional development. This is a parasitic creature, possibly destined for the entitlement class, and usually lacking in logic skills also. Such people frequently make a living on the benefit of other people's doubt and are prone to self-destructive habits that keep them in an artificial state of financial dependence on others.
Shared activities, favors done, gifts exchanged, and hospitality reciprocated are things that build social capital between people. It is not entirely a matter of social debt, so much as a combination of respect and goodwill. Now, social capital can be converted into money: charities do it all the time through fund raising. But it works for direct marketing too. Many a set of Cutco knives or fake nails have been sold to people simply because a close friend of family member asks them to buy. Yet social capital is renewable but finite. It can be lost, lent to others, and exchanged for money, but I use the analogy of an artesian well when I think about social capital. If you take more out of a relationship than you give to it, the well eventually runs dry. The relationship may be permanently damaged by asking too much from somebody, and the damage isn't always repairable. If you take more out of a community than the community generates by itself, the aquifer that feeds all the wells in the community is depleted and cannot always replenish itself. That's the concept that MLM devotees just don't understand. By trying to constantly monetize relationships, especially before the relationships are well established, they destroy not just their relationships with individuals but the stability of the community itself.
(See? The thread didn't actually derail.)
-
Maybe not MLM, but celebrities hyping health shit is what I hate. I love what Ozzy does in this clip:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nEkWlXGdWKA
-
So much of daily life here in the USA is IMHO poisoned by marketing and this kind of capitalism. I swear it either stunts some people's development or reverses the maturation process. Cut the cord! Kill off that kind of social media.
-
During my kids' soccer practice today, some mum told my wife that she was selling natural beauty products on the side. Her primary occupation is a nurse.
Seriously WTF! She was trying to rope-a-dope my wife into her MLM. Thankfully Mrs. JingaNation does not require this stuff due to her low maintenance.
-
I'm curious what you guys think about the "essential" oils craze. I heard the other day about one they're selling to pregnant ladies - costs like $1,200 per year to buy - even though it has no proven medical benefits whatsoever. Of course, the marketing is all word-of-mouth based and social-based. Call me a skeptic...
The essential oil craze is THE WORST. As a mom in her 30s, I popcorn-watch all the craziness on social media. People believe you can cure diseases with them. Reps often don’t know the safe use of certain oils and recommend ingesting them or using them on babies and children when it’s unsafe. I get that some smell nice and might make you happy because of it. But they are NOT medicines. They’re the modern day snake oils. / End rant /
-
I'm curious what you guys think about the "essential" oils craze.
Any advertising that tells me their product is "essential" and it's not about food, water, or environmentally-relevant clothing gets immediately shuffled off.
-
My husband calls them "optional" oils. But the reason they're called essential oils is because they come from the essence of the plant.
-
But they are NOT medicines. They’re the modern day snake oils.
I am completely not an MLM person, but will stick up for essential oils as having their uses. I've had some very good experiences with using them, from ultra-fast recovery from injury to enhanced brain function. I agree that many MLM marketers make exaggerated claims.
I'm a fan of non-MLM brands, which are a better value and likely just as high in quality as the more expensive MLM brands.
-
I am completely not an MLM person, but will stick up for essential oils as having their uses. I've had some very good experiences with using them, from ultra-fast recovery from injury to enhanced brain function.
Cite, please. Preferably double-blind, controlled studies.
-
Cite, please. Preferably double-blind, controlled studies.
Sure, here you go:
These 134 results from PubMed are a mixed bag, with some including fish oil rather than essential oil, and some showing no benefit of EO vs. placebo, but there are also plenty of findings that support the use of EO for certain applications.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=essential+oils+double+blind+placebo
Just a few of the many examples:
Positive modulation of mood and cognitive performance following administration of acute doses of Salvia lavandulaefolia essential oil to healthy young volunteers
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15639154
Monoterpenoid extract of sage (Salvia lavandulaefolia) with cholinesterase inhibiting properties improves cognitive performance and mood in healthy adults
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20937617
Lavender oil preparation Silexan is effective in generalized anxiety disorder--a randomized, double-blind comparison to placebo and paroxetine
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24456909
Effect of an essential oil-containing dentifrice [toothpaste] on established plaque and gingivitis
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23082576
Curcumin and Fennel Essential Oil Improve Symptoms and Quality of Life in Patients with Irritable Bowel Syndrome
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27308645
Antioxidant activity of linalool in patients with carpal tunnel syndrome
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26831333
Efficacy of Silexan [lavender oil extract] in mixed anxiety-depression--A randomized, placebo-controlled trial
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26718792
Efficacy of orally administered Silexan [lavender oil extract] in patients with anxiety-related restlessness and disturbed sleep--A randomized, placebo-controlled trial
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26293583
Effects of Silexan [lavender oil extract] on the serotonin-1A receptor and microstructure of the human brain: a randomized, placebo-controlled, double-blind, cross-over study with molecular and structural neuroimaging
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25522403
An orally administered lavandula oil preparation (Silexan) for anxiety disorder and related conditions: an evidence based review
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23808618
Efficacy of Peppermint oil in diarrhea predominant IBS - a double blind randomized placebo - controlled study
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23416804
Premedication with peppermint oil capsules in colonoscopy: a double blind placebo-controlled randomized trial study
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23082707
Application of the essential oil from copaiba (Copaifera langsdori Desf.) for acne vulgaris: a double-blind, placebo-controlled clinical trial
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22502624
-
I am completely not an MLM person, but will stick up for essential oils as having their uses. I've had some very good experiences with using them, from ultra-fast recovery from injury to enhanced brain function.
Cite, please. Preferably double-blind, controlled studies.
That line smacks of skepticism. I understand and get it as I am very critical myself. However, there is lots of information out there. It's worth looking into. (Stay away from any MLM companies and the "research" they come up with, double-blind or otherwise!)
Good luck in finding a sufficient body of knowledge on a specific EO that would come anywhere's close to the "research" done on big-pharma medication. Not many EO companies will have the 2.6 Billion https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cost_of_drug_development (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cost_of_drug_development) (a very loose estimate) to test their products like drug companies do. And why would they put out R&D like that when they can't patent the product(s) they are testing? No one can patent an orange, or rose, or cedarwood. Doesn't make them less effective though.
A few places to find good information...
https://naha.org/explore-aromatherapy/research (https://naha.org/explore-aromatherapy/research)
http://apps.who.int/medicinedocs/en/d/Js2200e/ (http://apps.who.int/medicinedocs/en/d/Js2200e/)
-
An orally administered lavandula oil preparation (Silexan) for anxiety disorder and related conditions: an evidence based review
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23808618
I decided to pull on a thread here and pick a random paper to see what the contents are like. I picked the above paper on lavender oil, to see what I'd find.
There are three very big takeaways from the paper:
1. Lavender oil contains linalyl acetate, which is a genuinely useful compound.
2. What's being tested in the paper (and, as far as I can see, in all the other papers on lavender oil) is a commercially manufactured lavender oil preparation manufactured to exacting specifications and marketed under the brand name Silexan.
3. To quote the paper, "marketed oils from lavender thus differ greatly with regard to quality and manufacturing cost". In other words, buying a bottle of lavender oil is not what's being tested here at all.
From a brief reading of another paper on essential-oil toothpaste and a third one on peppermint oil, the common factor is that what they're testing is commercially manufactured products which include some form of essential oil as an ingredient. None that I've flipped through appear to have been testing the use of essential oils in and of themselves.
I'd also note that there's a geographical and product bias to the papers I've taken a closer look at: there are more from southeast Asia and India than I might have guessed, which may or may not be related to the fact that Asia is the fastest-growing market for essential oils, and almost everything on lavender oil is actually testing Silexan, which is a product manufactured by Schwabe Pharma in Germany, whose parent company has an estimated annual income of about two hundred million dollars. It wouldn't shock me to see the manufacturers of essential oil products taking a leaf out of the pharmaceutical industry's book and quietly and patiently funding the kind of research it wants to see. I'll have to figure out who has my copy of Bad Pharma and see if I can find anything that matches his descriptions - although testing against placebo rather than the best existing treatment is one that springs to mind.
Incidentally, that last one is from the Alternative Medicine Review, which can fuck all the way off.
-
That line smacks of skepticism.
And? A skeptic by definition has doubts and wants to see evidence. That's not a bad thing in any situation.
-
An orally administered lavandula oil preparation (Silexan) for anxiety disorder and related conditions: an evidence based review
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23808618
I decided to pull on a thread here and pick a random paper to see what the contents are like. I picked the above paper on lavender oil, to see what I'd find.
There are three very big takeaways from the paper:
1. Lavender oil contains linalyl acetate, which is a genuinely useful compound.
2. What's being tested in the paper (and, as far as I can see, in all the other papers on lavender oil) is a commercially manufactured lavender oil preparation manufactured to exacting specifications and marketed under the brand name Silexan.
3. To quote the paper, "marketed oils from lavender thus differ greatly with regard to quality and manufacturing cost". In other words, buying a bottle of lavender oil is not what's being tested here at all.
From a brief reading of another paper on essential-oil toothpaste and a third one on peppermint oil, the common factor is that what they're testing is commercially manufactured products which include some form of essential oil as an ingredient. None that I've flipped through appear to have been testing the use of essential oils in and of themselves.
I'd also note that there's a geographical and product bias to the papers I've taken a closer look at: there are more from southeast Asia and India than I might have guessed, which may or may not be related to the fact that Asia is the fastest-growing market for essential oils, and almost everything on lavender oil is actually testing Silexan, which is a product manufactured by Schwabe Pharma in Germany, whose parent company has an estimated annual income of about two hundred million dollars. It wouldn't shock me to see the manufacturers of essential oil products taking a leaf out of the pharmaceutical industry's book and quietly and patiently funding the kind of research it wants to see. I'll have to figure out who has my copy of Bad Pharma and see if I can find anything that matches his descriptions - although testing against placebo rather than the best existing treatment is one that springs to mind.
Incidentally, that last one is from the Alternative Medicine Review, which can fuck all the way off.
The "Essential Oils" lavender is a topical treatment whereas this study is for an oral pill. Many of the commercially available lavender oils come in bottles that state DO NOT drink. Apparently there are capsules as well that you can. I did some poking around and couldn't find a clear ingredient list except for "100% therapeutic grade lavender oil." What the fuck does that mean? Several compounds are extracted from lavender plants and sold in various concentrations.
The official documentation says keep away from prepubescent children while the websites say "treats acne" and doesn't mention any child-related warnings at all. For that matter the alternative medicine websites claim it cures damn near everything to include cancer. One review site says "only treat for cancer after consulting a qualified aromatherapy practitioner.
Those tests and what I can find on the commercial product makes me think they weren't testing the same item. I'm reminded of a 5-Hour Energy commercial where the spokeswoman said "3000 doctors would recommend a low-calorie energy supplement" while not actually saying "doctors recommend 5-Hour Energy" or that the product even counts as a "low-calorie energy supplement." If you're not paying attention you might miss that little plot twist.
-
See, the exchange you just explained between you and your husband's CW's wife is a tragedy of our age, in my opinion, @Pioneerw2b.
What in the world is happening to people? When did it become appropriate to co-opt friendship into a business opportunity? Even worse, a horrible, exploitative one that doesn't even work (let's just call it what it is: a SCAM).
Here's a perfectly good budding friendship between two women that could grow into something that would be mutually beneficial to both parties. You enjoy each other's company, and maybe slowly but surely develop into a relationship where you're helping each other out, having each other over for get-togethers, exchanging recipes...one of you has some kind of crisis, the other one is there for you...you know, all the lovely, selfless things that FRIENDSHIPS used to be for.
And this woman totally isolates herself from any of that good stuff by making a budding friendship all about yet another MLM scam. It's bad for society. Now you're going to (rightfully) avoid her and never get to know her, and the husbands are going to feel a little awkward about it at work. It's a crying shame and I hate those companies for ruining the building block of community: friendship.
+1000.
I recently had a big medical problem including weeks of testing, then surgery, then more testing. (It's mostly over now, but it was pretty physically and emotionally traumatic for about 3 months). A friend of mine knew about it - she's not a close friend who I personally told, but she mentioned it when I ran into her at a social event, so I knew she'd heard it through the grapevine. Right after that I got a lovely pink envelope in the mail from her - I thought, "How nice, she's sending me thoughts and prayers and encouragement." When I opened the envelope, the first thing I saw was "You're invited!" so my mind then jumped to "oh, her oldest must be getting married and this is a bridal shower!" Nope. I think you all know where this is leading. It was an invitation to a party to "introduce all my friends to XYZ product who haven't yet had a chance to try it."
I've known this woman for 11 years. It grieves me that this is what passes for friendship these days.
-
See, the exchange you just explained between you and your husband's CW's wife is a tragedy of our age, in my opinion, @Pioneerw2b.
What in the world is happening to people? When did it become appropriate to co-opt friendship into a business opportunity? Even worse, a horrible, exploitative one that doesn't even work (let's just call it what it is: a SCAM).
Here's a perfectly good budding friendship between two women that could grow into something that would be mutually beneficial to both parties. You enjoy each other's company, and maybe slowly but surely develop into a relationship where you're helping each other out, having each other over for get-togethers, exchanging recipes...one of you has some kind of crisis, the other one is there for you...you know, all the lovely, selfless things that FRIENDSHIPS used to be for.
And this woman totally isolates herself from any of that good stuff by making a budding friendship all about yet another MLM scam. It's bad for society. Now you're going to (rightfully) avoid her and never get to know her, and the husbands are going to feel a little awkward about it at work. It's a crying shame and I hate those companies for ruining the building block of community: friendship.
+1000.
I recently had a big medical problem including weeks of testing, then surgery, then more testing. (It's mostly over now, but it was pretty physically and emotionally traumatic for about 3 months). A friend of mine knew about it - she's not a close friend who I personally told, but she mentioned it when I ran into her at a social event, so I knew she'd heard it through the grapevine. Right after that I got a lovely pink envelope in the mail from her - I thought, "How nice, she's sending me thoughts and prayers and encouragement." When I opened the envelope, the first thing I saw was "You're invited!" so my mind then jumped to "oh, her oldest must be getting married and this is a bridal shower!" Nope. I think you all know where this is leading. It was an invitation to a party to "introduce all my friends to XYZ product who haven't yet had a chance to try it."
I've known this woman for 11 years. It grieves me that this is what passes for friendship these days.
oh ye gads that is horrible :/ I'm so sorry. A few people I know are into MLMs and have signed up as consultants but none of them pushed their MLM on me when I was going through medical tests and treatment.
-
I think I'm having coffee with someone who does the utility MLMs. I think I'll take it as an opportunity to practice my own sales pitch and to get inside their head more. Eventually I will have the club for ex-MLM people. I just try not to be too publicly against them as a couple are my clients.
-
I think I'm having coffee with someone who does the utility MLMs. I think I'll take it as an opportunity to practice my own sales pitch and to get inside their head more. Eventually I will have the club for ex-MLM people. I just try not to be too publicly against them as a couple are my clients.
Is that like rehab for MLM victims? I'm not being sarcastic. I think it's a needed service.
-
I think I'm having coffee with someone who does the utility MLMs. I think I'll take it as an opportunity to practice my own sales pitch and to get inside their head more. Eventually I will have the club for ex-MLM people. I just try not to be too publicly against them as a couple are my clients.
Is that like rehab for MLM victims? I'm not being sarcastic. I think it's a needed service.
Yes, that's exactly what it is. People I've talked to think it's a good idea. I'm not sure how to go about it, and it's low on the priority list right now, but eventually I'll do more with the idea.
-
I think I'm having coffee with someone who does the utility MLMs. I think I'll take it as an opportunity to practice my own sales pitch and to get inside their head more. Eventually I will have the club for ex-MLM people. I just try not to be too publicly against them as a couple are my clients.
Is that like rehab for MLM victims? I'm not being sarcastic. I think it's a needed service.
Yes, that's exactly what it is. People I've talked to think it's a good idea. I'm not sure how to go about it, and it's low on the priority list right now, but eventually I'll do more with the idea.
Some org's that help people detox from cults help people who have been brain washed by MLMs.
-
The idea that things that smell good improve your mood (and that your improved mood can have positive effects on your cognitive performance or mental illness) is not at all shocking to me. With what we know about the placebo effect, I also would not be surprised to learn that merely improving your mood also improves your medical prognosis. I'm curious what kinds of controls are used in these studies to examine that.
TL;DR: pro things smelling pretty, anti paying a lot for things that smell pretty with a misleading label
From what I understand, in double blind studies you aren't aware whether you are getting the treatment or the placebo, so they account for that. The placebo given to the control group should've been indistinguishable from the intervention (ie both groups get something similarly smelly), which controls for the 'ooh it's a pretty smell, I feel good ' placebo effect?
-
Cryptocurrency has now dipped its toes into MLM/Ponzi territory.
http://www.ibtimes.com/bitconnect-lawsuit-bitcoin-trading-platfrom-sued-six-victims-2645317 (http://www.ibtimes.com/bitconnect-lawsuit-bitcoin-trading-platfrom-sued-six-victims-2645317)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EhL2OWXZ26s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EhL2OWXZ26s) Warning: Don't have your speakers turned up too loud for this. His speech seems like it was lifted almost word for word from some of the MLM trade shows John Oliver was lampooning a year ago.
Apparently their business model was:
-Send in purchased Bitcoin tokens or cash
-Convert them to Bitconnect tokens
-Bitconnect tokens are traded on an exchange
-Receive regular interest payments on the Bitcoin or cash you sent in
-Reinvest or bank your interest payments (but in Bitconnect tokens that must be traded back out)
-Your principle is locked in for year.
-You also receive compensation by bringing in other investors.
It turned out the overwhelming majority of Bitconnect tokens were owned by Bitconnect itself so your ROI is just Bitconnect self-churning its own product using new members to pump it up and paying you back in that near-worthless product.
They received several cease and desist notices this week and have shut down. They're being investigated by several states, the SEC, and are now facing class action lawsuits. I'm sure they're just the beginning and nobody will learn their lesson.
-
oh ye gads that is horrible :/ I'm so sorry. A few people I know are into MLMs and have signed up as consultants but none of them pushed their MLM on me when I was going through medical tests and treatment.
An old friend who sells some kind of shake contacted me when I was being treated for vaginal cancer to ask if I had tried raw vegetables.
1. I already have cancer. I think it's a bit late for that.
2. I was having a bad day, and I will admit my answer was not up to my usual level of courtesy. I asked if I needed to puree the vegetables before putting them in my vagina.
(translation: fuck off)
-
oh ye gads that is horrible :/ I'm so sorry. A few people I know are into MLMs and have signed up as consultants but none of them pushed their MLM on me when I was going through medical tests and treatment.
An old friend who sells some kind of shake contacted me when I was being treated for vaginal cancer to ask if I had tried raw vegetables.
1. I already have cancer. I think it's a bit late for that.
2. I was having a bad day, and I will admit my answer was not up to my usual level of courtesy. I asked if I needed to puree the vegetables before putting them in my vagina.
(translation: fuck off)
Best answer ever.
-
God damn, I need more pushy MLM people in my life. For lulz.
-
oh ye gads that is horrible :/ I'm so sorry. A few people I know are into MLMs and have signed up as consultants but none of them pushed their MLM on me when I was going through medical tests and treatment.
An old friend who sells some kind of shake contacted me when I was being treated for vaginal cancer to ask if I had tried raw vegetables.
1. I already have cancer. I think it's a bit late for that.
2. I was having a bad day, and I will admit my answer was not up to my usual level of courtesy. I asked if I needed to puree the vegetables before putting them in my vagina.
(translation: fuck off)
Good for you. I used to have a friend whose husband was in some kind of health MLM (don't remember if it was shakes or supplements or what). When I had breast cancer, she helpfully passed along the advice from her husband to "eat walnuts." Seriously. At the time, I imagined that they were trying to offer me some free "helpful" advice that didn't directly benefit them, so that I'd turn to him for his costly MLM product later. This story about your "old friend" seems to follow the same pattern; I wonder if this is taught in MLM training? "When you find out someone has cancer, don't approach directly about MLM. Instead, offer sympathy and raw veg and walnuts to nurture the relationship; then go in later with the pitch."
-
2. I was having a bad day, and I will admit my answer was not up to my usual level of courtesy. I asked if I needed to puree the vegetables before putting them in my vagina.
(translation: fuck off)
That is classic! Great response.
At a similar time in my life, I was "offered" a similar product. But since it was my sister doing the offering, I was a bit nicer about it. Wish I didn't have to be.
-
I think I'm having coffee with someone who does the utility MLMs. I think I'll take it as an opportunity to practice my own sales pitch and to get inside their head more. Eventually I will have the club for ex-MLM people. I just try not to be too publicly against them as a couple are my clients.
Is that like rehab for MLM victims? I'm not being sarcastic. I think it's a needed service.
Yes, that's exactly what it is. People I've talked to think it's a good idea. I'm not sure how to go about it, and it's low on the priority list right now, but eventually I'll do more with the idea.
I think it's a great idea. Perhaps you can help people develop their entrepreneurial skills to the point they feel confident starting their own businesses or side gigs rather than relying on ready-made solutions.
-
oh ye gads that is horrible :/ I'm so sorry. A few people I know are into MLMs and have signed up as consultants but none of them pushed their MLM on me when I was going through medical tests and treatment.
An old friend who sells some kind of shake contacted me when I was being treated for vaginal cancer to ask if I had tried raw vegetables.
1. I already have cancer. I think it's a bit late for that.
2. I was having a bad day, and I will admit my answer was not up to my usual level of courtesy. I asked if I needed to puree the vegetables before putting them in my vagina.
(translation: fuck off)
Good for you. I used to have a friend whose husband was in some kind of health MLM (don't remember if it was shakes or supplements or what). When I had breast cancer, she helpfully passed along the advice from her husband to "eat walnuts." Seriously. At the time, I imagined that they were trying to offer me some free "helpful" advice that didn't directly benefit them, so that I'd turn to him for his costly MLM product later. This story about your "old friend" seems to follow the same pattern; I wonder if this is taught in MLM training? "When you find out someone has cancer, don't approach directly about MLM. Instead, offer sympathy and raw veg and walnuts to nurture the relationship; then go in later with the pitch."
LOL...yes, the overpriced slim fast shake was later proffered as an alternative healing option. #oblivious
-
/sigh
Yet another Facebook friend and mother of small children has started selling Usborne books. That makes 3 now, in addition to the ones selling various nail wraps or gel nail kits, and my cousin who messaged me at the beginning of the year asking if I was interested in "all natural products" for around the house.
...I told her that I was joining an Uber Frugal January challenge, lol, and my goal was to buy less and add fewer things to my house, lol. A cop out, but so true!
-
/sigh
Yet another Facebook friend and mother of small children has started selling Usborne books. That makes 3 now, in addition to the ones selling various nail wraps or gel nail kits, and my cousin who messaged me at the beginning of the year asking if I was interested in "all natural products" for around the house.
...I told her that I was joining an Uber Frugal January challenge, lol, and my goal was to buy less and add fewer things to my house, lol. A cop out, but so true!
My cousin got into those. She tried to sell me on them because my 2nd kid was a bit older than her first kid.
Key word: second kid. I still have a billion books from the first one (gifted, bought used, etc).
-
So bookstores or libraries aren't an option? An MLM can sell the product better?
-
So bookstores or libraries aren't an option? An MLM can sell the product better?
Why won't you help women be their own boss? What do you have against entrepreneurs and business owners. You should support Moms trying to be there for their kids.
(Even more fun- Usborne is sold in bookstores too.)
-
So bookstores or libraries aren't an option? An MLM can sell the product better?
Why won't you help women be their own boss? What do you have against entrepreneurs and business owners. You should support Moms trying to be there for their kids.
(Even more fun- Usborne is sold in bookstores too.)
I can't tell if you are trolling iowajes. (I hope you are.)
The salespersons in MLMs are not bosses. They are not entrepreneurial. Nor are they business owners. And I can say with certainty that they are NOT making money for their family/kids.
-
So bookstores or libraries aren't an option? An MLM can sell the product better?
Why won't you help women be their own boss? What do you have against entrepreneurs and business owners. You should support Moms trying to be there for their kids.
(Even more fun- Usborne is sold in bookstores too.)
I can't tell if you are trolling iowajes. (I hope you are.)
The salespersons in MLMs are not bosses. They are not entrepreneurial. Nor are they business owners. And I can say with certainty that they are NOT making money for their family/kids.
Iowajes was just listing every excuse thrown about for not supporting a MLM member. This is a long thread, but trust me, we've gone into plenty of detail on every one of your points.
-
oh ye gads that is horrible :/ I'm so sorry. A few people I know are into MLMs and have signed up as consultants but none of them pushed their MLM on me when I was going through medical tests and treatment.
An old friend who sells some kind of shake contacted me when I was being treated for vaginal cancer to ask if I had tried raw vegetables.
1. I already have cancer. I think it's a bit late for that.
2. I was having a bad day, and I will admit my answer was not up to my usual level of courtesy. I asked if I needed to puree the vegetables before putting them in my vagina.
(translation: fuck off)
I'm sorry you were subjected to that idiocy, but glad for your response. A few months ago I had a similarly crude exchange with a MLM-peddling relative about why her supplements and smoothies wouldn't be helpful in halting an epic IBD flare. It had to be explained to her in rather graphic terms why eating extra vegetables wasn't going to curtail my rapid 40 lb. weight loss, malabsorption, and repeated trips to the hospital for dehydration and hypokalemia.
This same relative is constantly posting stuff on Facebook about how she's never been healthier than since she started using the products she sells. These posts end with appeals to message her if you're interested in beginning your journey into health. Meanwhile, her family knows that she's frequently sick, often for long stretches at a time, because "wellness" gurus have convinced her that illness is essentially a choice you make. So in her mind, she's healthy as long as she believes she is. It leads to fun adventures like a simple case of strep throat spiraling out of control because she distrusts her PCP when he tries to prescribe antibiotics.
-
I am certain that was sarcasm.
Maybe we need a button to show when we're being sarcastic?
-
I am certain that was sarcasm.
Maybe we need a button to show when we're being sarcastic?
No button required. You can end your post with /s.
-
I didn't think a sarcasm note was needed for this thread, where those topics have been rehashed so many times. I don't think I could have gotten more obvious.
-
Gotta love being part of an MLM that competes with its own product in brick and mortar stores too. Similar to the Subway franchise stories. Too many stores in a small area so they end up competing with each other. Parent company makes much of its money selling franchises so they want to open more stores.
So will we ever see the collapse of retail b/c there are simply too many places to buy the same things including online?
-
I didn't think a sarcasm note was needed for this thread, where those topics have been rehashed so many times. I don't think I could have gotten more obvious.
You couldn't have.
-
Has anyone else been asked out for coffee by a friend and think hey it would be good to catch up only for them to open their ipad/laptop and show you a video on why you should join Dreamtrips/World Ventures and then try to convince you it's not MLM? Happened to me twice. So annoying. I really thought they wanted to catch up. Sigh.
-
Jumping in here without reading the thread fully (the shame)...
My entire FB feed right now is people pimping out their MLMs. Some people are really good at selling/promoting their product. (I don't mind when people share their own good results with a product, and invite people to come check out their business page). Some people are awful. One girl I know is doing some diet/shake MLM..unsure of the product name because she spends most of her time saying things "People get annoyed with me and say this is expensive, but it really isn't that expensive, it is worth it for your health!" WHAT IS "THIS"?? HOW DO I KNOW WHAT YOU ARE PROMOTING??? I had one lady that I used to work with do a group message of ALL of her contacts, no lead in, no product info just "I'm having a fb party for X, let me know if you want in!" I tried to google X and couldn't find anything...pretty sure she misspelled her own product name!
My other MLM story is for a brief moment in time I was a Mary Kay Consultant. I had just finished my engineering degree, was having trouble finding work and was bored out of my tree. I got sucked into a party, then ordered enough product that they convinced me it was a better "deal" to become a consultant. I was a sucker for people telling me I would do a good job at it...and got totally roped in. (Important to note, I'm not a very "girly" person. I barely wear make-up, I'm an engineer who has spent a good chuck of my career wearing coveralls and respirators and steel toe boots.) I spent (as a unemployed new grad) $800 on the starter kit and a basic stock pile and was told I would sell out SO QUICKLY. I started going to the weekly regional meetings, and learned how to be a proper consultant. Very quickly I realized this was not for me, but kept going because I was enthralled with seeing this cult like organization take advantage of women.
Some highlights:
-We got points at each meeting depending on how much we were representing the brand. Criteria included: Wearing a dress or skirt (pants are a STILL a NO-NO in MK world), having hair/nails/makeup perfect. Having a clean car. (I failed then, I would 100% fail now.) I get that this is an image/makeup company, but the level of "being a lady" was insane. We were taught how to sit properly, and shake hands "like a lady"...it was finishing school disguised as career advice.
-Senior consultants get % of stock purchases of their jrs (woo pyramid scheme). They really give two flying fs about your own sales, and push buying more stock. They "reward" people who have big purchases with quarterly prizes, like diamond rings. I overheard one woman say she was so excited to get her ring that quarter, but now had to figure out what to do with the $4000 worth of stock, and the debt on her credit card.
- The level of effort for a jr consultant is insane. You spend HOURS making your own promotional material, finding clients, setting up parties etc. An amazing party would maybe make $300. If you dollar cost average it you are looking at minimum wage MAX. But hey "I'm my own boss!!" ..blech.
- The rhetoric is that Mary Kay was built by a woman who was sick and tired of gender biases in the 1960s. She wanted a company to empower women. The meetings are all about girl power, and PINK power, and being a lady..and taking charge of your own life. When I was a consultant in 2011, the board of directors and executive team were mostly men. No one brought that up at the weekly meetings! (It has changed now, a little more diverse, but the president, CEO and 4/5 of the key executives are still men).
I also had a really hard time selling products to people who really couldn't afford the products. I did two parties in my time, one for other new grads like myself who had student debt and NO MONEY...how am I suppose to promote a $35 lipstick! Next party was in a rural area with a bunch of high school students and their moms. Not to judge, but for sure these families should not have been buying expensive makeup and skin care. Between gas money and travel costs to get to that party, I think my "net" was $3.25. So not worth it!!
Luckily I moved away from the city I hand been doing this in and used the move as an excuse to break free! I'm laughing now if I had stuck with it for a little while longer, and ran into a meeting after a day of site work, sweaty, hair in a messy ponytail, wearing work coveralls...I would have been kicked out.
I 100% gifted away or used the starter kit products myself. So really over the past 7 years I've spent $800 on makeup and skin care...could have been a worse loss :P.
TL;DR, was a MLM consultant. Don't do it..its a trap.
-
Meanwhile, her family knows that she's frequently sick, often for long stretches at a time, because "wellness" gurus have convinced her that illness is essentially a choice you make. So in her mind, she's healthy as long as she believes she is. It leads to fun adventures like a simple case of strep throat spiraling out of control because she distrusts her PCP when he tries to prescribe antibiotics.
My cousin had a similar mindset. By the time she went into the emergency room, her mysterious long-lived pain was revealed as cancer that had already metastasized.
After her diagnosis, she spent months ignoring her oncologist, eating "magic" fruit of some kind and using crystals to "cure" herself. Needless to say, she ended up begging her oncologist to perform surgery and start the chemo and radiation. By that point it was too late, her body was too weak to survive surgery, and she had to go into hospice care. She was 54 when she died.
"Alternative medicine" and the MLMs that push it really do kill people.
<s> But you know, doctors are just in it for the money. </s>
-
Meanwhile, her family knows that she's frequently sick, often for long stretches at a time, because "wellness" gurus have convinced her that illness is essentially a choice you make. So in her mind, she's healthy as long as she believes she is. It leads to fun adventures like a simple case of strep throat spiraling out of control because she distrusts her PCP when he tries to prescribe antibiotics.
My cousin had a similar mindset. By the time she went into the emergency room, her mysterious long-lived pain was revealed as cancer that had already metastasized.
After her diagnosis, she spent months ignoring her oncologist, eating "magic" fruit of some kind and using crystals to "cure" herself. Needless to say, she ended up begging her oncologist to perform surgery and start the chemo and radiation. By that point it was too late, her body was too weak to survive surgery, and she had to go into hospice care. She was 54 when she died.
"Alternative medicine" and the MLMs that push it really do kill people.
<s> But you know, doctors are just in it for the money. </s>
I had a friend do this. She had breast cancer, went through chemo and it was awful (as chemo always is), but she came out with the cancer in remission. It was that way for years. A few years later when the cancer came back she passed on chemo because it was so bad and was convinced that anti-oxidants and clean eating and crystals would do better with fewer side effects. She was 50 when she died.
Granted, I will acknowledge that chemo and radiation are hell and it can make sense to skip them if it's a pallative or short-term gain scenario. (Trade quantity of life for quality.) But that requires that the patient is honest with themselves.
-
- The rhetoric is that Mary Kay was built by a woman who was sick and tired of gender biases in the 1960s. She wanted a company to empower women. The meetings are all about girl power, and PINK power, and being a lady..and taking charge of your own life. When I was a consultant in 2011, the board of directors and executive team were mostly men. No one brought that up at the weekly meetings! (It has changed now, a little more diverse, but the president, CEO and 4/5 of the key executives are still men).
I also had a really hard time selling products to people who really couldn't afford the products. I did two parties in my time, one for other new grads like myself who had student debt and NO MONEY...how am I suppose to promote a $35 lipstick! Next party was in a rural area with a bunch of high school students and their moms. Not to judge, but for sure these families should not have been buying expensive makeup and skin care. Between gas money and travel costs to get to that party, I think my "net" was $3.25. So not worth it!!
Luckily I moved away from the city I hand been doing this in and used the move as an excuse to break free! I'm laughing now if I had stuck with it for a little while longer, and ran into a meeting after a day of site work, sweaty, hair in a messy ponytail, wearing work coveralls...I would have been kicked out.
Girl POWER! Looking pretty!!
As I sit at my desk in engineering land, hair in a ponytail. Graying, of course, wrinkles and pimples. No makeup (being 47 is GRAND). Jeans, sneakers and t shirt and a hoodie.
-
Girl POWER! Looking pretty!!
As I sit at my desk in engineering land, hair in a ponytail. Graying, of course, wrinkles and pimples. No makeup (being 47 is GRAND). Jeans, sneakers and t shirt and a hoodie.
Love it! I've been approached by well-meaning MLM'ers for offers of 'makeovers', because of course I 'NEED' makeup to 'look and feel my best'. Meh, I 'look and feel' my best without war-paint, tyvm!
-
Meanwhile, her family knows that she's frequently sick, often for long stretches at a time, because "wellness" gurus have convinced her that illness is essentially a choice you make. So in her mind, she's healthy as long as she believes she is. It leads to fun adventures like a simple case of strep throat spiraling out of control because she distrusts her PCP when he tries to prescribe antibiotics.
My cousin had a similar mindset. By the time she went into the emergency room, her mysterious long-lived pain was revealed as cancer that had already metastasized.
After her diagnosis, she spent months ignoring her oncologist, eating "magic" fruit of some kind and using crystals to "cure" herself. Needless to say, she ended up begging her oncologist to perform surgery and start the chemo and radiation. By that point it was too late, her body was too weak to survive surgery, and she had to go into hospice care. She was 54 when she died.
"Alternative medicine" and the MLMs that push it really do kill people.
<s> But you know, doctors are just in it for the money. </s>
I'm so sorry for your loss. That story is just so sad.
-
Girl POWER! Looking pretty!!
As I sit at my desk in engineering land, hair in a ponytail. Graying, of course, wrinkles and pimples. No makeup (being 47 is GRAND). Jeans, sneakers and t shirt and a hoodie.
Love it! I've been approached by well-meaning MLM'ers for offers of 'makeovers', because of course I 'NEED' makeup to 'look and feel my best'. Meh, I 'look and feel' my best without war-paint, tyvm!
I hated that face grease even when I was younger. The chemistry of my skin is a bit different and makeup tends to flake or melt off almost immediately when it isn't causing cystic acne. I found that when I went completely without makeup as a teen my complexion improved. So I tossed the face grease and never looked back. The thought that I was saving a ton of money never crossed my mind at the time-- I didn't notice the double-X chromosome tax until someone pointed it out to me-- but in retrospect I suppose I saved a bundle.
-
I'm so sorry for your loss. That story is just so sad.
Thanks. It's been a decade, so the family has had time to heal or paper over the feelings of guilt, depending on who it is. I've just maintained a virulent intolerance toward alternative "medicine", though I try to not froth at the mouth excessively.
-
...
This same relative is constantly posting stuff on Facebook about how she's never been healthier than since she started using the products she sells. These posts end with appeals to message her if you're interested in beginning your journey into health. Meanwhile, her family knows that she's frequently sick, often for long stretches at a time, because "wellness" gurus have convinced her that illness is essentially a choice you make. So in her mind, she's healthy as long as she believes she is. ...
Ugh, I have a friend like this. She calls herself a "wellness advocate" for her MLM and has been doing it for years. Yet, her husband is still one of the unhealthiest people I know. Obese, no exercise, etc, and I think it's only gotten worse since she started her business. If her own family isn't influenced by her "wellness" efforts, what can it possibly do for someone else?
-
Girl POWER! Looking pretty!!
As I sit at my desk in engineering land, hair in a ponytail. Graying, of course, wrinkles and pimples. No makeup (being 47 is GRAND). Jeans, sneakers and t shirt and a hoodie.
Female engineers unite! Jeans, sneakers, t-shirt, natural-going-gray hair, no makeup here. Although, I am wearing earrings today...fancy. If I wear makeup or nicer clothes to work it makes the male engineers nervous and concerned that I'm interviewing. I discovered that last year when I dressed nicely to attend a funeral midday. :(
I have a friend who I really like who just got sucked into an MLM, Arbonne? I think it's one of those diet/"wellness" ones. Sigh. It has been awhile since I've come across one IRL. I hope it's short lived.
-
Every time I have an old friend who I haven't seen in years who wants to come over to "catch up" it's been a MLM. EVERY TIME.
Life Leadership was the worst. "You don't want to be rich and successful??" NO.
The only time I would sell something to a personal friend is if I had a no-nonsense business like Ron Swanson's Very Good Building and Construction.
-
I have a friend who I really like who just got sucked into an MLM, Arbonne? I think it's one of those diet/"wellness" ones. Sigh. It has been awhile since I've come across one IRL. I hope it's short lived.
DW is an Arbonne distributor, but doesn't actually use it for anything other than getting a discount on stuff for our household. I like the basic products (moisturizer, aftershave, etc.); she likes them more. They are kind of spendy, depending on your definition of spendy, but people are particular about health and beauty products, so ....
There is definitely stuff in their catalogue that is nutty woo-woo and really overpriced. And if you are unlucky enough to really drink the Kool-Aid, then you'll get the typical high-pressure MLM tactics. So far she's avoided all that. Knock on wood.
-
Life Leadership was the worst. "You don't want to be rich and successful??" NO. YES. That's why I'm not throwing any money away on Life Leadership.
-
I have a friend who I really like who just got sucked into an MLM, Arbonne? I think it's one of those diet/"wellness" ones. Sigh. It has been awhile since I've come across one IRL. I hope it's short lived.
DW is an Arbonne distributor, but doesn't actually use it for anything other than getting a discount on stuff for our household. I like the basic products (moisturizer, aftershave, etc.); she likes them more. They are kind of spendy, depending on your definition of spendy, but people are particular about health and beauty products, so ....
There is definitely stuff in their catalogue that is nutty woo-woo and really overpriced. And if you are unlucky enough to really drink the Kool-Aid, then you'll get the typical high-pressure MLM tactics. So far she's avoided all that. Knock on wood.
My wife used to purchase Arbonne (and a couple of other MLM) products because she liked them.
After learning how deceptive, immoral, and unethical the MLM companies are, we refuse to purchase their products. Some people say that MLMs are pyramid schemes. I think they are worse. (90% of those in Pyramid schemes lose money. 99% of MLMers lose money.) We will spend twice as much on a product from a non-MLM company, rather than purchase products produced by MLMs. (For example, instead of Young Living EOs, we've have bought Living Libations, as well as others that don't cost quite that much!)
-
Girl POWER! Looking pretty!!
As I sit at my desk in engineering land, hair in a ponytail. Graying, of course, wrinkles and pimples. No makeup (being 47 is GRAND). Jeans, sneakers and t shirt and a hoodie.
Female engineers unite! Jeans, sneakers, t-shirt, natural-going-gray hair, no makeup here. Although, I am wearing earrings today...fancy. If I wear makeup or nicer clothes to work it makes the male engineers nervous and concerned that I'm interviewing. I discovered that last year when I dressed nicely to attend a funeral midday. :(
I have a friend who I really like who just got sucked into an MLM, Arbonne? I think it's one of those diet/"wellness" ones. Sigh. It has been awhile since I've come across one IRL. I hope it's short lived.
Yes. I gave up wheat and lost just enough weight that none of my jeans fit except the holey ones. So I pulled out a couple of pairs of old dress pants. Oh boy do I get the looks and the questions. There were definitely interview concerns, but hey, worked in my favor.
-
Girl POWER! Looking pretty!!
As I sit at my desk in engineering land, hair in a ponytail. Graying, of course, wrinkles and pimples. No makeup (being 47 is GRAND). Jeans, sneakers and t shirt and a hoodie.
Female engineers unite! Jeans, sneakers, t-shirt, natural-going-gray hair, no makeup here. Although, I am wearing earrings today...fancy. If I wear makeup or nicer clothes to work it makes the male engineers nervous and concerned that I'm interviewing. I discovered that last year when I dressed nicely to attend a funeral midday. :(
I have a friend who I really like who just got sucked into an MLM, Arbonne? I think it's one of those diet/"wellness" ones. Sigh. It has been awhile since I've come across one IRL. I hope it's short lived.
Yes. I gave up wheat and lost just enough weight that none of my jeans fit except the holey ones. So I pulled out a couple of pairs of old dress pants. Oh boy do I get the looks and the questions. There were definitely interview concerns, but hey, worked in my favor.
I'm sure there will be much fear that I'm interviewing if I ever again wear anything to work besides cargo pants and either hiking boots or combat boots. Seems unlikely, unless, you know, I have a job interview. The college president has seen my combat boots now, so no reason to dress up for a meeting.
-
When she forgets to update the template...
(Courtesy of Reddit)
-
When she forgets to update the template...
(Courtesy of Reddit)
Whoops!
-
When she forgets to update the template...
(Courtesy of Reddit)
Not in this (expletive) lifetime
-
When she forgets to update the template...
(Courtesy of Reddit)
Whoops!
Oh, that is too funny!
-
Yesterday on my local community FB page, a woman posted about Avon. I hid her from my feed. Today a different woman posted about youngevity. She started her post with a negative comment towards Avon. I hid her as well. Not only is she deluded but she's a bully as well. Sad and pathetic.
-
I actually got pitched last week by a friend on a MLM scheme, in which the plan is selling Financial Advisory services and yes...Annuities....double ug! Heaps of money to be made, iif I only advise others to follow investments I woukd never advise myself...
My reply was that the proposal sounded like work...and that I had retired to stop working.
-
Yesterday on my local community FB page, a woman posted about Avon. I hid her from my feed. Today a different woman posted about youngevity. She started her post with a negative comment towards Avon. I hid her as well. Not only is she deluded but she's a bully as well. Sad and pathetic.
You won't have to endure that for much longer.
Avon has announced it's pulling out of Australia by the end of the year.
Enter horde of angry "entrepreneurs".
-
Saw a MLM post about how MLM company was profiled in Forbes. Post quoted the article, but didn't link to it, which I thought was kinda weird.
Well, turns out, the Forbes article is pretty blunt about it being a pyramid scheme:
Getting on board with business kits whose costs range from about $400 to $1,000, the dream is of big riches through direct sales and recruiting more distributors, or consultants, as the company calls them -- the classic pyramid model of multi-level marketing companies in which the recruiter gets a slice of the sales of those who they sign up.
It doesn't happen for most. According to a company disclosure statement, the average annualized income for active [MLM co] distributors for sales in 2015 was $3,182, with entry-level consultants making an average of $790.
It then goes on to tell the story of one "top" distributor who "earned" a Lexus. Sounds like a really, really awesome salesperson, until you realize that it's a lease worth maybe $400/month.
-
I was invited to a local business networking facebook group that does events a couple times a month, I happily accepted. After going through the posts for the last few months, it's all people begging for $xx in sales so that they can still be a 'consultant' for whatever MLM. It appears that there are a few realtors, a coffee stand owner, myself and maybe one other person in there that are stand alone businesses. I was trying to explain it to my husband, but it annoys me so much when these people go on and go about being an entrepreneur and being their own boss etc. etc. They don't own a business! And don't get me started on the #momboss #momtrepeuer #girlboss nonsense. There is no reason to gender a non-gendered word.
-
It then goes on to tell the story of one "top" distributor who "earned" a Lexus. Sounds like a really, really awesome salesperson, until you realize that it's a lease worth maybe $400/month.
On top of that, the second they fall below their quota, they are stuck with the car payments themselves.
I met a guy at training (for our real jobs), and he ended up telling me about how his wife was doing an MLM, got the car, and then all her business tanked because so many people started selling the same thing. Now he has that car payment to add to all the other bills, while supporting a family of 4 or 5 kids. I could tell it was a big sore spot for him.
-
Saw a MLM post about how MLM company was profiled in Forbes. Post quoted the article, but didn't link to it, which I thought was kinda weird.
That is a curious PR move from the company.
We've been featured in Forbes! They portrayed us as the scam artists and shonks we are, but we just won't tell people that bit.
-
Yesterday on my local community FB page, a woman posted about Avon. I hid her from my feed. Today a different woman posted about youngevity. She started her post with a negative comment towards Avon. I hid her as well. Not only is she deluded but she's a bully as well. Sad and pathetic.
You won't have to endure that for much longer.
Avon has announced it's pulling out of Australia by the end of the year.
Enter horde of angry "entrepreneurs".
I had another post today from a different lady. Get your stock now before it's all gone! Contact me!
One down. 689250652 more to go.
-
There is no reason to gender a non-gendered word.
In the original French the word 'entrepreneur' is of course a gendered word. The feminine (though I've never seen it used in French) would be l'entrepreneuse.
Funny that there was no concept for this in English and they had to borrow a French word for it.
-
In the original French the word 'entrepreneur' is of course a gendered word. The feminine (though I've never seen it used in French) would be l'entrepreneuse.
Funny that there was no concept for this in English and they had to borrow a French word for it.
It's gendered because French nouns are all gendered, which you know since you said "of course" a gendered word.
But I agree, it's totally crazy how England had no concept of things like entrepreneurship or joy or justice or melody or beef or eagles before 1066.
-
In the original French the word 'entrepreneur' is of course a gendered word. The feminine (though I've never seen it used in French) would be l'entrepreneuse.
Funny that there was no concept for this in English and they had to borrow a French word for it.
It's gendered because French nouns are all gendered, which you know since you said "of course" a gendered word.
But I agree, it's totally crazy how England had no concept of things like entrepreneurship or joy or justice or melody or beef or eagles before 1066.
This is like seeing a very small reenactment.
-
In the original French the word 'entrepreneur' is of course a gendered word. The feminine (though I've never seen it used in French) would be l'entrepreneuse.
Funny that there was no concept for this in English and they had to borrow a French word for it.
But I agree, it's totally crazy how England had no concept of things like entrepreneurship or joy or justice or melody or beef or eagles before 1066.
I was more poking fun at George Dubya Bush who claimed that the French language had no concept of entrepreneurship
-
I was more poking fun at George Dubya Bush who claimed that the French language had no concept of entrepreneurship
https://www.snopes.com/quotes/bush.asp
-
I was more poking fun at George Dubya Bush who claimed that the French language had no concept of entrepreneurship
https://www.snopes.com/quotes/bush.asp
It's still a good story and has the sound of truth...
-
I was more poking fun at George Dubya Bush who claimed that the French language had no concept of entrepreneurship
https://www.snopes.com/quotes/bush.asp
It's still a good story and has the sound of truth...
But it isn't. Either you didn't know or you lied intentionally. Either way, doubling down after learning the truth is wonderfully appropriate in a MLM thread.
-
Yesterday on my local community FB page, a woman posted about Avon. I hid her from my feed. Today a different woman posted about youngevity. She started her post with a negative comment towards Avon. I hid her as well. Not only is she deluded but she's a bully as well. Sad and pathetic.
You won't have to endure that for much longer.
Avon has announced it's pulling out of Australia by the end of the year.
Enter horde of angry "entrepreneurs".
I had another post today from a different lady. Get your stock now before it's all gone! Contact me!
One down. 689250652 more to go.
What is "contact me" lady's role in this scenario? A last minute emptying of their Aussie warehouse or offloading her own stuff?
-
Yesterday on my local community FB page, a woman posted about Avon. I hid her from my feed. Today a different woman posted about youngevity. She started her post with a negative comment towards Avon. I hid her as well. Not only is she deluded but she's a bully as well. Sad and pathetic.
You won't have to endure that for much longer.
Avon has announced it's pulling out of Australia by the end of the year.
Enter horde of angry "entrepreneurs".
I had another post today from a different lady. Get your stock now before it's all gone! Contact me!
One down. 689250652 more to go.
What is "contact me" lady's role in this scenario? A last minute emptying of their Aussie warehouse or offloading her own stuff?
She was trying to get downlines to set up online stores believe it or not. She only posted in the comments that it was closing down.
Her post:
"Do you like, Fashion Jewellery, Homewares, Makeup and skin products? Work your own hours. Show brochures to family friends and work mates. Get your own online store and sell to anyone you know all over Australia. Contact me emailaddress"
And the comment:
"Avon in Australia is closing for good. Join up now and buy your products in bulk before they close. Contact me."
-
I read through this thread on my lunch breaks a few weeks ago and was entertained (and aghast at the levels this stuff goes to).
Since I finished I now have an old acquaintance on FB who is a Younique consultant and posts ALL. THE. TIME. And it is like it was taken word for word out of this thread.
But I thought this post would be enjoyed here:
Know someone building a business on Social Media?
Don't be annoyed by their posts...
Instead:
- Hit Like 👍🏼
- Ask a question 🤔
- Make a positive comment ❤
- Maybe even share it 📲
Even if you aren't interested, someone you know may be. You don't have to spend to support your friends!
We're all working hard for a number of different reasons!
Support the "little guy".
Support the "under dog" who is just trying to build a good life.
We appreciate the interaction! It helps us build and grow. We thank you!
Post your business in the comments. 👇🏼
I've got Younique ❤
#Repost
-
I read through this thread on my lunch breaks a few weeks ago and was entertained (and aghast at the levels this stuff goes to).
Since I finished I now have an old acquaintance on FB who is a Younique consultant and posts ALL. THE. TIME. And it is like it was taken word for word out of this thread.
But I thought this post would be enjoyed here:
Know someone building a business on Social Media?
Don't be annoyed by their posts...
Instead:
- Hit Like 👍🏼
- Ask a question 🤔
- Make a positive comment ❤
- Maybe even share it 📲
Even if you aren't interested, someone you know may be. You don't have to spend to support your friends!
We're all working hard for a number of different reasons!
Support the "little guy".
Support the "under dog" who is just trying to build a good life.
We appreciate the interaction! It helps us build and grow. We thank you!
Post your business in the comments. 👇🏼
I've got Younique ❤
#Repost
#doallmyadvertisingformekthanksbye
You have to give her credit for the effort, underhanded as it may be.
-
I love when this thread gets bumped up :)
My FB feed is fairly free of MLM stuff. I do have one lady that does Shakeology, and would prefer if I didn't feel like a pm is trying to lead to a sale (we pm about other stuff, she was my son's first daycare lady, I work with her husband, we've always known each other, but every now and then it drifts to "do you want to try/join..." stuff, and I have to explain that I'm still not interested).
Another friend has joined the Lipsense nonsense, but she doesn't post much about it, so that's good.
I do love that "don't get annoyed by me, just share my stuff so you can help me annoy someone else!" attitude in the above post though.
-
I got a friend request recently from someone who I barely know (although we have several mutual friends) who is pitching an MLM; I think it's Shakeology? I've been posting about running lately because I'm training for a half marathon and hiking Mt. Whitney this summer (permit acquired, yes!!) and she messaged me about her "fitness program". At least she hasn't been pushy when I didn't fill out her "questionnaire for more information." I swear though, everywhere I look there's someone else on yet another MLM. Ugh.
-
I got a friend request recently from someone who I barely know (although we have several mutual friends) who is pitching an MLM; I think it's Shakeology? I've been posting about running lately because I'm training for a half marathon and hiking Mt. Whitney this summer (permit acquired, yes!!) and she messaged me about her "fitness program". At least she hasn't been pushy when I didn't fill out her "questionnaire for more information." I swear though, everywhere I look there's someone else on yet another MLM. Ugh.
Oh yes, this one makes me sad. Don't get me wrong. I love the Beachbody workouts. I have the streaming service ($99 a year for all their workouts). They have great recipes on their site. Their workouts & meal plans helped me lose all the baby weight - 35 lbs!
But shakeology. I know it's how they make their money, and word of mouth of "coaches". But seriously.
-
Oh yes, this one makes me sad. Don't get me wrong. I love the Beachbody workouts. I have the streaming service ($99 a year for all their workouts). They have great recipes on their site. Their workouts & meal plans helped me lose all the baby weight - 35 lbs!
But shakeology. I know it's how they make their money, and word of mouth of "coaches". But seriously.
I'd never even heard of it before, but ALL she posts about on facebook is her coaching "business" and "being her own boss" and ALL the standard MLM things that have been said here.
Congrats on losing all the baby weight though! My youngest is 6 and I am STILL up 30 pounds from where I was before getting pregnant with my now-8 year old. I've made a lot of progress with my fitness lately and the weight is...redistributing...but I still have a long way to go. Hard to call it "baby weight" when my "baby" is six. I have a plan at the moment (training for a half marathon and hiking Mt. Whitney this summer; focusing on being active and eating appropriately for said activity) but if I don't see the weight budge here I may take a look at that streaming option. Thanks. :)
-
Oh yes, this one makes me sad. Don't get me wrong. I love the Beachbody workouts. I have the streaming service ($99 a year for all their workouts). They have great recipes on their site. Their workouts & meal plans helped me lose all the baby weight - 35 lbs!
But shakeology. I know it's how they make their money, and word of mouth of "coaches". But seriously.
I'd never even heard of it before, but ALL she posts about on facebook is her coaching "business" and "being her own boss" and ALL the standard MLM things that have been said here.
Congrats on losing all the baby weight though! My youngest is 6 and I am STILL up 30 pounds from where I was before getting pregnant with my now-8 year old. I've made a lot of progress with my fitness lately and the weight is...redistributing...but I still have a long way to go. Hard to call it "baby weight" when my "baby" is six. I have a plan at the moment (training for a half marathon and hiking Mt. Whitney this summer; focusing on being active and eating appropriately for said activity) but if I don't see the weight budge here I may take a look at that streaming option. Thanks. :)
Ooh, Mt. Whitney! I live in California. I'd never attempt Whitney. I'm too much of a scaredy-cat. A friend of mine did it last year, and ALMOST made it. But near the top it was snowing/ icy, and there was a gnarly section. She stopped, sobbing "I can't turn my husband into a single parent!" It was a bad weather day.
The program I used was 21-day fix. The workouts were great (I still do them), but the color-coded containers for each type of food and the amount you could eat was what did the trick. It was super easy, way easier for me than counting points or calories. Much less counting. And made me cut my love affair with carbs, because I could only have 2 servings a day.
-
Shouldn't the drink powders and the health additive folks be the healthiest people we know? They aren't - well, not universally.
Thanks - I can continue to be the middle aged guy who needs to exercise more - without the cost of the supplements. ;)
Meanwhile, I am pedaling back and forth around town alot more. That IS paying off a little albeit slowly.
-
Shouldn't the drink powders and the health additive folks be the healthiest people we know? They aren't - well, not universally.
Anecdotal, I know, but I've literally never received unsolicited health or nutrition advice from someone who looked qualified to give it.
-
Shouldn't the drink powders and the health additive folks be the healthiest people we know? They aren't - well, not universally.
Anecdotal, I know, but I've literally never received unsolicited health or nutrition advice from someone who looked qualified to give it.
Also anecdotal, I know, but I've literally never received unsolicited health or nutrition advice from someone in the gym.
-
I was approached multiple times by people pedaling this shake or that drink powder. All I could think was - why aren't they using the product? They aren't the pinnacle of health by any means (nor am I). Still at least I'm doing something about it by being more active minus the cost of the powder/shake/product.
Going for a walk is pretty cheap these days. You don't even need a dog or special shoes! ;)
-
I've known a few people who sold the shakes and powders over the years. If you ever want to try a response that they've never heard before, my go-to line is "My Hungarian grandmother would turn over in her grave if she found out I ate food powder instead of a proper home-cooked meal." I'm not even lying.
-
I have a few friends who shill that powder. A couple have gotten into INCREDIBLE shape since starting to "coach" for beachbody. A couple a hugely obese but swear they'd be a lot unhealthier without the shakes and "everyone has to start somewhere".
I think I've found that a lot of people prefer an overweight "coach" because it makes them relatable.
-
I have a few friends who shill that powder. A couple have gotten into INCREDIBLE shape since starting to "coach" for beachbody. A couple a hugely obese but swear they'd be a lot unhealthier without the shakes and "everyone has to start somewhere".
I think I've found that a lot of people prefer an overweight "coach" because it makes them relatable.
Huh. That's interesting. I know a lot of coaches. Most of them are very fit, but that might be related to my location. A few that are "relatable".
I think it makes me sad, because most of them put an awful lot of work into it, for what I assume is not a lot of money. And recent changes on BB means they aren't allowed to be in other MLMs. So folks who pieced together Beachbody + wine + ??? (I dunno, nails? Skincare? Leggings?) had to pick one.
Again, because of my location, many of the "coaches" I know are actually certified in other things, like martial arts, personal training, nutrition, etc.
-
I've known a few people who sold the shakes and powders over the years. If you ever want to try a response that they've never heard before, my go-to line is "My Hungarian grandmother would turn over in her grave if she found out I ate food powder instead of a proper home-cooked meal." I'm not even lying.
I had looked up the cost of the shakes out of curiosity. When someone tried to get me to buy them, I said that no, the shakes were too expensive and would blow my food budget. So then I got the next push "but they are inexpensive for all the nutrients and vitamins they provide!" and "You'll save so much time not making meals!" I told them I had so much time to make proper meals I should be ashamed to use that as a reason (I work 7 days/nights every 2 weeks if I'm not working overtime, and usually have plenty of time too cook at work as well as at home). Also, with all the food my mom grows in her garden, I have almost unlimited access to fresh vegetables in the summer, and home frozen/canned vegetables all winter. They finally dropped it.
But, maybe I can use "Hungarian gramma" next time, even if mine wasn't.
-
I have a few friends who shill that powder. A couple have gotten into INCREDIBLE shape since starting to "coach" for beachbody. A couple a hugely obese but swear they'd be a lot unhealthier without the shakes and "everyone has to start somewhere".
I think I've found that a lot of people prefer an overweight "coach" because it makes them relatable.
I think it makes me sad, because most of them put an awful lot of work into it, for what I assume is not a lot of money. And recent changes on BB means they aren't allowed to be in other MLMs. So folks who pieced together Beachbody + wine + ??? (I dunno, nails? Skincare? Leggings?) had to pick one.
Nothing says #I'mmyownboss like someone else telling you what you can or can't sell.
-
I've known a few people who sold the shakes and powders over the years. If you ever want to try a response that they've never heard before, my go-to line is "My Hungarian grandmother would turn over in her grave if she found out I ate food powder instead of a proper home-cooked meal." I'm not even lying.
I had looked up the cost of the shakes out of curiosity. When someone tried to get me to buy them, I said that no, the shakes were too expensive and would blow my food budget. So then I got the next push "but they are inexpensive for all the nutrients and vitamins they provide!" and "You'll save so much time not making meals!" I told them I had so much time to make proper meals I should be ashamed to use that as a reason (I work 7 days/nights every 2 weeks if I'm not working overtime, and usually have plenty of time too cook at work as well as at home). Also, with all the food my mom grows in her garden, I have almost unlimited access to fresh vegetables in the summer, and home frozen/canned vegetables all winter. They finally dropped it.
But, maybe I can use "Hungarian gramma" next time, even if mine wasn't.
In my experience, they have a retort for EVERY reason you could give as a way to decline. It's all in the scripts ;)
I had someone randomly Facebook message me from a mutual mom's group. She must have searched certain conditions to target people, because she mentioned a chronic health condition I've discussed in the group (though I've never even asked for treatment options there) and tried to get me to buy and/or sell Thrive. I wanted to respond in so many different ways, but in the end I didn't accept the message - I just blocked and deleted it. And reported her to group admins since that is for sure against the (pretty awesome) group code of conduct.
-
I've known a few people who sold the shakes and powders over the years. If you ever want to try a response that they've never heard before, my go-to line is "My Hungarian grandmother would turn over in her grave if she found out I ate food powder instead of a proper home-cooked meal." I'm not even lying.
I had looked up the cost of the shakes out of curiosity. When someone tried to get me to buy them, I said that no, the shakes were too expensive and would blow my food budget. So then I got the next push "but they are inexpensive for all the nutrients and vitamins they provide!" and "You'll save so much time not making meals!" I told them I had so much time to make proper meals I should be ashamed to use that as a reason (I work 7 days/nights every 2 weeks if I'm not working overtime, and usually have plenty of time too cook at work as well as at home). Also, with all the food my mom grows in her garden, I have almost unlimited access to fresh vegetables in the summer, and home frozen/canned vegetables all winter. They finally dropped it.
But, maybe I can use "Hungarian gramma" next time, even if mine wasn't.
In my experience, they have a retort for EVERY reason you could give as a way to decline. It's all in the scripts ;)
I have another response that's hard for them to find a script for as well - one person I knew years ago was part of an MLM that sold energy drinks, and tried to sell them to me. I grabbed one, read out loud the warnings on the label, and said "Holy shit, are you trying to kill me?"
-
I've known a few people who sold the shakes and powders over the years. If you ever want to try a response that they've never heard before, my go-to line is "My Hungarian grandmother would turn over in her grave if she found out I ate food powder instead of a proper home-cooked meal." I'm not even lying.
I had looked up the cost of the shakes out of curiosity. When someone tried to get me to buy them, I said that no, the shakes were too expensive and would blow my food budget. So then I got the next push "but they are inexpensive for all the nutrients and vitamins they provide!" and "You'll save so much time not making meals!" I told them I had so much time to make proper meals I should be ashamed to use that as a reason (I work 7 days/nights every 2 weeks if I'm not working overtime, and usually have plenty of time too cook at work as well as at home). Also, with all the food my mom grows in her garden, I have almost unlimited access to fresh vegetables in the summer, and home frozen/canned vegetables all winter. They finally dropped it.
But, maybe I can use "Hungarian gramma" next time, even if mine wasn't.
In my experience, they have a retort for EVERY reason you could give as a way to decline. It's all in the scripts ;)
I have another response that's hard for them to find a script for as well - one person I knew years ago was part of an MLM that sold energy drinks, and tried to sell them to me. I grabbed one, read out loud the warnings on the label, and said "Holy shit, are you trying to kill me?"
When I was a kid and living with my parents, my aunt and her husband came for an extended visit. They brought some ridiculous-looking energy bars that were highly processed with an ingredients list that took up half the back of the package. My aunt's husband was hawking this garbage and would not shut up about it. He was an older fellow, in his sixties at least, with a bit of an overweening disposition so it was hard to politely dodge the conversation. We'd all sampled the nauseating glorified cardboard just to be polite, and found it odious. But after several days he still wouldn't shut up about the disgusting things. I was thinking about finding an excuse to break his jaw to make him stop. While extolling the dubious virtue of his product, he asserted: "Because of these, I've got the body of a twenty-nine-year-old."
Me: (Looking at the package) Which one of these ingredients is the hallucinogen?
Yeah, I was an obnoxious kid. Not much has changed since then.
-
Or just send your average kid into the conversation. I've heard some pretty creative reasons why a 9 year old won't eat their vegetables...
-
I've known a few people who sold the shakes and powders over the years. If you ever want to try a response that they've never heard before, my go-to line is "My Hungarian grandmother would turn over in her grave if she found out I ate food powder instead of a proper home-cooked meal." I'm not even lying.
I had looked up the cost of the shakes out of curiosity. When someone tried to get me to buy them, I said that no, the shakes were too expensive and would blow my food budget. So then I got the next push "but they are inexpensive for all the nutrients and vitamins they provide!" and "You'll save so much time not making meals!" I told them I had so much time to make proper meals I should be ashamed to use that as a reason (I work 7 days/nights every 2 weeks if I'm not working overtime, and usually have plenty of time too cook at work as well as at home). Also, with all the food my mom grows in her garden, I have almost unlimited access to fresh vegetables in the summer, and home frozen/canned vegetables all winter. They finally dropped it.
But, maybe I can use "Hungarian gramma" next time, even if mine wasn't.
In my experience, they have a retort for EVERY reason you could give as a way to decline. It's all in the scripts ;)
I have another response that's hard for them to find a script for as well - one person I knew years ago was part of an MLM that sold energy drinks, and tried to sell them to me. I grabbed one, read out loud the warnings on the label, and said "Holy shit, are you trying to kill me?"
When I was a kid and living with my parents, my aunt and her husband came for an extended visit. They brought some ridiculous-looking energy bars that were highly processed with an ingredients list that took up half the back of the package. My aunt's husband was hawking this garbage and would not shut up about it. He was an older fellow, in his sixties at least, with a bit of an overweening disposition so it was hard to politely dodge the conversation. We'd all sampled the nauseating glorified cardboard just to be polite, and found it odious. But after several days he still wouldn't shut up about the disgusting things. I was thinking about finding an excuse to break his jaw to make him stop. While extolling the dubious virtue of his product, he asserted: "Because of these, I've got the body of a twenty-nine-year-old."
Me: (Looking at the package) Which one of these ingredients is the hallucinogen?
Yeah, I was an obnoxious kid. Not much has changed since then.
If only there were cell phone cameras and YouTube back then. That's comic gold. My response would have probably been questioning why 29 years old equals peak fitness.
-
Me: (Looking at the package) Which one of these ingredients is the hallucinogen?
OMG, you are hilarious! Such a precocious child. I'm glad you participate in these forums, TGS!
-
I've known a few people who sold the shakes and powders over the years. If you ever want to try a response that they've never heard before, my go-to line is "My Hungarian grandmother would turn over in her grave if she found out I ate food powder instead of a proper home-cooked meal." I'm not even lying.
Never eat anything your grandparents wouldn't recognize as food.
-
I've known a few people who sold the shakes and powders over the years. If you ever want to try a response that they've never heard before, my go-to line is "My Hungarian grandmother would turn over in her grave if she found out I ate food powder instead of a proper home-cooked meal." I'm not even lying.
Never eat anything your grandparents wouldn't recognize as food.
This is true, as long as your grandparents weren't incredibly xenophobic. My grandpa refused to eat pizza and chop suey, as they were "not real food". Spaghetti was iffy; it was OK only as long as it was Kraft brand with the little shaker of what was labelled "parmesan cheese". He would be appalled at my diet, as many meals are completely meatless (even suppers!), and I eat too much "rabbit food".
-
I unfollowed someone on Facebook because their posts got incredibly annoying. Multiple posts a day of them in workout gear shilling Beachbody. My wife enjoys Beachbody but just streams it for fairly cheap and doesn't try to sell anything. Unfortunately she also does the shakeology which is obscenely expensive.
Another FB friend sells Rodan & Fields but she's not nearly as annoying with her posts.
-
I unfollowed someone on Facebook because their posts got incredibly annoying. Multiple posts a day of them in workout gear shilling Beachbody. My wife enjoys Beachbody but just streams it for fairly cheap and doesn't try to sell anything. Unfortunately she also does the shakeology which is obscenely expensive.
Shakeology and beachbody are one in the same as far as MLMs go.
-
I unfollowed someone on Facebook because their posts got incredibly annoying. Multiple posts a day of them in workout gear shilling Beachbody. My wife enjoys Beachbody but just streams it for fairly cheap and doesn't try to sell anything. Unfortunately she also does the shakeology which is obscenely expensive.
Shakeology and beachbody are one in the same as far as MLMs go.
I know they're related but you can purchase beachbody workouts without having to buy the shakes if one is so inclined
-
I've known a few people who sold the shakes and powders over the years. If you ever want to try a response that they've never heard before, my go-to line is "My Hungarian grandmother would turn over in her grave if she found out I ate food powder instead of a proper home-cooked meal." I'm not even lying.
Never eat anything your grandparents wouldn't recognize as food.
This is true, as long as your grandparents weren't incredibly xenophobic. My grandpa refused to eat pizza and chop suey, as they were "not real food". Spaghetti was iffy; it was OK only as long as it was Kraft brand with the little shaker of what was labelled "parmesan cheese". He would be appalled at my diet, as many meals are completely meatless (even suppers!), and I eat too much "rabbit food".
My grandfather wouldn't eat rice. Never could decide if it was a WWII thing (he was in Europe though) or just didn't like rice.
We eat alot of rice. Wonder what he would think of sushi???
-
I unfollowed someone on Facebook because their posts got incredibly annoying. Multiple posts a day of them in workout gear shilling Beachbody. My wife enjoys Beachbody but just streams it for fairly cheap and doesn't try to sell anything. Unfortunately she also does the shakeology which is obscenely expensive.
Shakeology and beachbody are one in the same as far as MLMs go.
I know they're related but you can purchase beachbody workouts without having to buy the shakes if one is so inclined
And you can buy the shakes without the workout. Either way you are supporting the company.
-
This is true, as long as your grandparents weren't incredibly xenophobic. My grandpa refused to eat pizza and chop suey, as they were "not real food". Spaghetti was iffy; it was OK only as long as it was Kraft brand with the little shaker of what was labelled "parmesan cheese". He would be appalled at my diet, as many meals are completely meatless (even suppers!), and I eat too much "rabbit food".
My grandfather wouldn't eat rice. Never could decide if it was a WWII thing (he was in Europe though) or just didn't like rice.
We eat alot of rice. Wonder what he would think of sushi???
My grandpa was a Marine in the Pacific Theater. Sushi was what I was specifically thinking of as something I love he'd be absolutely appalled by.
-
I unfollowed someone on Facebook because their posts got incredibly annoying. Multiple posts a day of them in workout gear shilling Beachbody. My wife enjoys Beachbody but just streams it for fairly cheap and doesn't try to sell anything. Unfortunately she also does the shakeology which is obscenely expensive.
Shakeology and beachbody are one in the same as far as MLMs go.
I know they're related but you can purchase beachbody workouts without having to buy the shakes if one is so inclined
And you can buy the shakes without the workout. Either way you are supporting the company.
Yeah I guess I'm not really getting your point. Same company but different products. If someone likes the beachbody workout they can do it for pretty cheap. The shakes are the ripoff. Should people avoid beachbody even if they enjoy it just to stick it to the company for some reason.
-
I unfollowed someone on Facebook because their posts got incredibly annoying. Multiple posts a day of them in workout gear shilling Beachbody. My wife enjoys Beachbody but just streams it for fairly cheap and doesn't try to sell anything. Unfortunately she also does the shakeology which is obscenely expensive.
Shakeology and beachbody are one in the same as far as MLMs go.
I know they're related but you can purchase beachbody workouts without having to buy the shakes if one is so inclined
And you can buy the shakes without the workout. Either way you are supporting the company.
Yeah I guess I'm not really getting your point. Same company but different products. If someone likes the beachbody workout they can do it for pretty cheap. The shakes are the ripoff. Should people avoid beachbody even if they enjoy it just to stick it to the company for some reason.
I don't agree with how the company does business. So I don't support them.
That isn't an uncommon line of thinking at all. Many people avoid companies who do business in a way they don't agree with. I don't shop at Hobby Lobby either. And they aren't an MLM, but I don't like how they conduct business.
-
I've known a few people who sold the shakes and powders over the years. If you ever want to try a response that they've never heard before, my go-to line is "My Hungarian grandmother would turn over in her grave if she found out I ate food powder instead of a proper home-cooked meal." I'm not even lying.
Never eat anything your grandparents wouldn't recognize as food.
This is true, as long as your grandparents weren't incredibly xenophobic. My grandpa refused to eat pizza and chop suey, as they were "not real food". Spaghetti was iffy; it was OK only as long as it was Kraft brand with the little shaker of what was labelled "parmesan cheese". He would be appalled at my diet, as many meals are completely meatless (even suppers!), and I eat too much "rabbit food".
My grandfather wouldn't eat rice. Never could decide if it was a WWII thing (he was in Europe though) or just didn't like rice.
We eat alot of rice. Wonder what he would think of sushi???
My Hungarian grandmother loved sushi - she actually introduced me to it, since I grew up in podunk little villages with no restaurants or ethnic markets (or ethnic people for that matter). She was a pretty adventurous eater in general.
-
I've known a few people who sold the shakes and powders over the years. If you ever want to try a response that they've never heard before, my go-to line is "My Hungarian grandmother would turn over in her grave if she found out I ate food powder instead of a proper home-cooked meal." I'm not even lying.
Never eat anything your grandparents wouldn't recognize as food.
This is true, as long as your grandparents weren't incredibly xenophobic. My grandpa refused to eat pizza and chop suey, as they were "not real food". Spaghetti was iffy; it was OK only as long as it was Kraft brand with the little shaker of what was labelled "parmesan cheese". He would be appalled at my diet, as many meals are completely meatless (even suppers!), and I eat too much "rabbit food".
My grandfather wouldn't eat rice. Never could decide if it was a WWII thing (he was in Europe though) or just didn't like rice.
We eat alot of rice. Wonder what he would think of sushi???
My grandpa was a Marine in the Pacific Theater. Sushi was what I was specifically thinking of as something I love he'd be absolutely appalled by.
My grandmother wouldn't have been familiar with some of the fruits I ate recently in Asia, but she would recognize them as fruit...which means she would understand that they were food.
The adage doesn't say to only eat what your grandparents liked!
-
I unfollowed someone on Facebook because their posts got incredibly annoying. Multiple posts a day of them in workout gear shilling Beachbody. My wife enjoys Beachbody but just streams it for fairly cheap and doesn't try to sell anything. Unfortunately she also does the shakeology which is obscenely expensive.
Shakeology and beachbody are one in the same as far as MLMs go.
I know they're related but you can purchase beachbody workouts without having to buy the shakes if one is so inclined
And you can buy the shakes without the workout. Either way you are supporting the company.
Yeah I guess I'm not really getting your point. Same company but different products. If someone likes the beachbody workout they can do it for pretty cheap. The shakes are the ripoff. Should people avoid beachbody even if they enjoy it just to stick it to the company for some reason.
There are people who would say yes. In fact, there's a whole blog somewhere where they expose the "truth" about Beachbody and suggest that you shouldn't do anything to support the company because of their practices. Kind of like Walmart.
I see the point. But I like the workouts and the streaming service is $99 a year. I get good value for that.
-
I see the point. But I like the workouts and the streaming service is $99 a year. I get good value for that.
I subscribe to Beachbody streaming workouts for $99 per year, too. There is a huge library of different workout types, several of which I've tried and liked a lot. My favorites have been Core de Force, 21 Day Fix, and 21 Day Fix Extreme, but I also like to mix in some of the others on occasion. I personally think the annual subscription is quite a good deal for someone who plans to actually do the workouts. I'm going to admit here, as well, that I also used to buy the shakes, which I really liked with almond milk, but the price was absolutely ridiculous, so I don't buy them anymore.
-
There are people who would say yes. In fact, there's a whole blog somewhere where they expose the "truth" about Beachbody and suggest that you shouldn't do anything to support the company because of their practices. Kind of like Walmart.
Ok, I wasn't aware their practices were that deplorable. I'll have to do some reading on the subject.
-
The adage doesn't say to only eat what your grandparents liked!
No, the original adage was "Never eat anything your grandparents wouldn't recognize as food." My grandfather, because of his intense xenophobia, did not recognize non-northern-European food as food. He understood that things like sushi, pizza or chop suey were edible, but they were not, in his view, "food". Which was my point.
-
I wish I could find a link to the worksheet, but a friend taught English in China. She used an American textbook for her preschool class.
There was a problem that was "circle the thing not like the others".
On a sheet about dinner there was something like a hamburger, an apple, seaweed, and ice cream.
The kids were completely baffled which to circle. Which of these things is not food?
-
I wish I could find a link to the worksheet, but a friend taught English in China. She used an American textbook for her preschool class.
There was a problem that was "circle the thing not like the others".
On a sheet about dinner there was something like a hamburger, an apple, seaweed, and ice cream.
The kids were completely baffled which to circle. Which of these things is not food?
The hamburger, obviously! The others are all vegetarian ;)
-
The adage doesn't say to only eat what your grandparents liked!
No, the original adage was "Never eat anything your grandparents wouldn't recognize as food." My grandfather, because of his intense xenophobia, did not recognize non-northern-European food as food. He understood that things like sushi, pizza or chop suey were edible, but they were not, in his view, "food". Which was my point.
I wonder if his attitude would have changed if he helped make a homemade pizza in his own kitchen. Maybe not. ;)
-
There are people who would say yes. In fact, there's a whole blog somewhere where they expose the "truth" about Beachbody and suggest that you shouldn't do anything to support the company because of their practices. Kind of like Walmart.
Ok, I wasn't aware their practices were that deplorable. I'll have to do some reading on the subject.
Our family doesn't purchase any product from MLM companies anymore because we learned how unethical and deceptive these companies are. They are the business scum of the modern world. Some people refer to them as pyramid schemes. MLMs are much worse. These ideas (truths) can be found here:
http://www.mlm-thetruth.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/MLMunmasked-5-1-2017-CURRENT-1.pdf (http://www.mlm-thetruth.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/MLMunmasked-5-1-2017-CURRENT-1.pdf)
http://www.pinktruth.com/mary-kay-facts/myth-of-mlm-income-opportunity-99-lose-money-in-mlm/ (http://www.pinktruth.com/mary-kay-facts/myth-of-mlm-income-opportunity-99-lose-money-in-mlm/)
The first link is a comprehensive read.
The second is shorter but just as good. (Note: a person needs to check a captcha to be able to access the content.)
-
There are people who would say yes. In fact, there's a whole blog somewhere where they expose the "truth" about Beachbody and suggest that you shouldn't do anything to support the company because of their practices. Kind of like Walmart.
Ok, I wasn't aware their practices were that deplorable. I'll have to do some reading on the subject.
It's more the general MLM thing. You know, the company is very rah rah, and want their coaches to do personal improvement, read books for personal growth, "make a difference", help people get healthy, etc - all laudable goals.
But the fact of the matter is "coaches" make money by selling product, I estimate approx 25%. So, if you get someone to buy a month of shakes for $130, you get $32.50.
There's MORE money in signing coaches beneath you. How much, I don't know, but the "bonuses" depend on what your downline does and sells. So when the "real" money is in how many people are selling stuff in your downline, it starts to get shady. And the fact of the matter is, some areas of the country are saturated. Some very successful coaches (as in, quit their day jobs) have ended up quitting because the amount of work went up and the payout went down and the competition went way up.
$130 a month for shakes is ridiculous (even though they are quite tasty - haven't quite found an alternative that is even close). If you are a coach, you get a 25% discount and if you get someone "below" you, you get 25%, so the cost to produce the shakes has got to be far less than 50% of the sticker price.
I have a few friends who are coaches who "earn" free vacations. For giggles once, I sat down and tried to figure out what they had to do to earn that (thank you google). I figured that they essentially had to sign up 2 new people a MONTH for an entire year to earn this free trip. That's 24 new customers. NEW customers. That's a LOT. Of course it's "free", which means for something like a cruise, you have to pay for flights to get there and a hotel for the night before/after the cruise. So not really "free".
I'm simply not a fan of the payscale setup. I think it's fine that they use word of mouth to garner excitement. Their products are pretty high quality (workouts, cookbooks, meal plans). A straight-up commission from every sale would be better, IMO. Not a fan of the pyramid.
-
Building onto mm1970's description of the Beachbody model -- since I already I admitted I do the $99/year streaming workouts and I used to buy the shakes -- I'll share more of what I've seen. I originally signed up as a "coach" to get the 25% discount, not because I planned to even try selling anything at all. There was no fee to sign up as a coach, but there was a monthly coach fee you had to pay for "website maintenance" or whatever. It balanced out evenly so that the 25% I was saving on my shakes was the same monthly amount I had to pay as a coach fee. Since I did not try to sell anything, I earned $0, and so for the shitty income statistics that you see, I was counted as a coach who earned $0. Yes, this means many $0 earner coaches get factored into those horrible income statistics. Anyway, because I signed up as a coach, I was put into different facebook groups with people who were coaches, most of whom were really trying to work the business to make money. There was a good handful of people who seemed to be very organized and "successful" in making decent-ish money. But the vast majority made me so sad because they would put hours and hours of effort into this work and only earn a pittance. I cannot recall the numbers now, but some people actually posted their incomes and commission checks amount, and I just wanted to cry for them. They were super proud, and I could not help but think that their hourly wage was close to nothing.
-
Building onto mm1970's description of the Beachbody model -- since I already I admitted I do the $99/year streaming workouts and I used to buy the shakes -- I'll share more of what I've seen. I originally signed up as a "coach" to get the 25% discount, not because I planned to even try selling anything at all. There was no fee to sign up as a coach, but there was a monthly coach fee you had to pay for "website maintenance" or whatever. It balanced out evenly so that the 25% I was saving on my shakes was the same monthly amount I had to pay as a coach fee. Since I did not try to sell anything, I earned $0, and so for the shitty income statistics that you see, I was counted as a coach who earned $0. Yes, this means many $0 earner coaches get factored into those horrible income statistics. Anyway, because I signed up as a coach, I was put into different facebook groups with people who were coaches, most of whom were really trying to work the business to make money. There was a good handful of people who seemed to be very organized and "successful" in making decent-ish money. But the vast majority made me so sad because they would put hours and hours of effort into this work and only earn a pittance. I cannot recall the numbers now, but some people actually posted their incomes and commission checks amount, and I just wanted to cry for them. They were super proud, and I could not help but think that their hourly wage was close to nothing.
In looking at the Income Disclosure statements put out by MLM companies, I've come to understand that $0 earners are not factored into their reports. Only those in the company that are making commissions regularly are included in the Income Disclosures - this makes the picture slightly more palatable. I still am shocked however, that well over 97% of people in these companies make well under a typical minimum wage earner, and yet people get sucked into thinking that they are going to fulfill all their dreams. The reality - they lose money because they buy a product they normally wouldn't - and they waste a ton of time/life to boot.
-
For those who like on demand workout videos but hate contributing to a sleazy MLM company, may I humbly recommend Daily Burn? They have a great variety in their library plus a daily live show with live interaction. They don't sell anything other than the video subscription.
-
For those who like on demand workout videos but hate contributing to a sleazy MLM company, may I humbly recommend Daily Burn? They have a great variety in their library plus a daily live show with live interaction. They don't sell anything other than the video subscription.
Les Mills On Demand (LMOD)is also a good one for workouts. I took a couple of months to evaluate both Les Mills and Daily Burn and decided to go with LMOD.
I have a code for 30 free days with LMOD if anyone wants to try it. I don't get any incentive if you use my code, it is just a straight offer.
-
Building onto mm1970's description of the Beachbody model -- since I already I admitted I do the $99/year streaming workouts and I used to buy the shakes -- I'll share more of what I've seen. I originally signed up as a "coach" to get the 25% discount, not because I planned to even try selling anything at all. There was no fee to sign up as a coach, but there was a monthly coach fee you had to pay for "website maintenance" or whatever. It balanced out evenly so that the 25% I was saving on my shakes was the same monthly amount I had to pay as a coach fee. Since I did not try to sell anything, I earned $0, and so for the shitty income statistics that you see, I was counted as a coach who earned $0. Yes, this means many $0 earner coaches get factored into those horrible income statistics. Anyway, because I signed up as a coach, I was put into different facebook groups with people who were coaches, most of whom were really trying to work the business to make money. There was a good handful of people who seemed to be very organized and "successful" in making decent-ish money. But the vast majority made me so sad because they would put hours and hours of effort into this work and only earn a pittance. I cannot recall the numbers now, but some people actually posted their incomes and commission checks amount, and I just wanted to cry for them. They were super proud, and I could not help but think that their hourly wage was close to nothing.
In looking at the Income Disclosure statements put out by MLM companies, I've come to understand that $0 earners are not factored into their reports. Only those in the company that are making commissions regularly are included in the Income Disclosures - this makes the picture slightly more palatable. I still am shocked however, that well over 97% of people in these companies make well under a typical minimum wage earner, and yet people get sucked into thinking that they are going to fulfill all their dreams. The reality - they lose money because they buy a product they normally wouldn't - and they waste a ton of time/life to boot.
Right because - there's always those other people who make millions. Beach body is no different than the other companies - they haul out the successes and tout their incomes and show others what they've done. Some make millions! Some quit their day jobs! Some just make enough to stay at home with their kids!
It's kind of why a lot of poor folk in the US vote against their own interests. The American Dream means SOMEDAY MAYBE I CAN BE A MILLIONAIRE. Just have to work hard enough and all that.
-
The adage doesn't say to only eat what your grandparents liked!
No, the original adage was "Never eat anything your grandparents wouldn't recognize as food." My grandfather, because of his intense xenophobia, did not recognize non-northern-European food as food. He understood that things like sushi, pizza or chop suey were edible, but they were not, in his view, "food". Which was my point.
To continue the hijack, Michael Pollan has modified it to, "Eat only things that someone's grandparents [or great-grandparents] would recognize as food". The focus is supposed to be on non-processed food or only maybe canned/frozen amounts of processing. Getting into our grandparents' xenophobia wasn't really the point. ;-)
-
The adage doesn't say to only eat what your grandparents liked!
No, the original adage was "Never eat anything your grandparents wouldn't recognize as food." My grandfather, because of his intense xenophobia, did not recognize non-northern-European food as food. He understood that things like sushi, pizza or chop suey were edible, but they were not, in his view, "food". Which was my point.
To continue the hijack, Michael Pollan has modified it to, "Eat only things that someone's grandparents [or great-grandparents] would recognize as food". The focus is supposed to be on non-processed food or only maybe canned/frozen amounts of processing. Getting into our grandparents' xenophobia wasn't really the point. ;-)
Exactly!
-
For those who like on demand workout videos but hate contributing to a sleazy MLM company, may I humbly recommend Daily Burn? They have a great variety in their library plus a daily live show with live interaction. They don't sell anything other than the video subscription.
Les Mills On Demand (LMOD)is also a good one for workouts. I took a couple of months to evaluate both Les Mills and Daily Burn and decided to go with LMOD.
I have a code for 30 free days with LMOD if anyone wants to try it. I don't get any incentive if you use my code, it is just a straight offer.
YouTube also has a ton of videos, for free. I personally like the "Body Fit by Amy" and "PopSugar Fitness" channels.
-
a former co-worker who lives in germany now just started selling nerium, which is apparently a skincare line à la rodan + fields. at first i didn't really understand why she kept posting weird things on facebook when she never had before -- stuff like, "which shoes should i buy for xxxxx's party? a, b, or c? i can't decide!" reading here, though, makes it way more clear. got to beat that big, bad algorithm, right?
now all i need to do is unfollow her on every social media platform so i can stop seeing her clearly scripted posts -- do these MLM sellers not realize that people might notice a difference from their normal, relatively articulate posts and their suddenly peppy posts with nearly every other word interrupted by a corresponding emoji? it's nice for the reader, because it's easy to notice what it is right away and move past the ad, but still. not the best marketing move.
-
do these MLM sellers not realize that people might notice a difference from their normal, relatively articulate posts and their suddenly peppy posts with nearly every other word interrupted by a corresponding emoji? it's nice for the reader, because it's easy to notice what it is right away and move past the ad, but still. not the best marketing move.
The people who create email spam or the bots that troll chat rooms never moved past that either.
-
do these MLM sellers not realize that people might notice a difference from their normal, relatively articulate posts and their suddenly peppy posts with nearly every other word interrupted by a corresponding emoji? it's nice for the reader, because it's easy to notice what it is right away and move past the ad, but still. not the best marketing move.
The people who create email spam or the bots that troll chat rooms never moved past that either.
fair point! i suppose by my same argument, one would assume that this reasonably intelligent acquaintence of mine would recognize a pyramid scheme when she saw one - which clearly also hasn't happened.
-
do these MLM sellers not realize that people might notice a difference from their normal, relatively articulate posts and their suddenly peppy posts with nearly every other word interrupted by a corresponding emoji? it's nice for the reader, because it's easy to notice what it is right away and move past the ad, but still. not the best marketing move.
The people who create email spam or the bots that troll chat rooms never moved past that either.
fair point! i suppose by my same argument, one would assume that this reasonably intelligent acquaintence of mine would recognize a pyramid scheme when she saw one - which clearly also hasn't happened.
Sad, isn't it? I've had to unfollow old friends on Facebook and block group invites because I got sick of the constant shilling for Rodan+Fields, Jamberry, Lularoe, Nerium, 31 Bags, Lipsense...and now an otherwise very intelligent old college friend is selling some new stick-on nail product (her very obviously scripted announcement went up today).
-
do these MLM sellers not realize that people might notice a difference from their normal, relatively articulate posts and their suddenly peppy posts with nearly every other word interrupted by a corresponding emoji? it's nice for the reader, because it's easy to notice what it is right away and move past the ad, but still. not the best marketing move.
The people who create email spam or the bots that troll chat rooms never moved past that either.
fair point! i suppose by my same argument, one would assume that this reasonably intelligent acquaintence of mine would recognize a pyramid scheme when she saw one - which clearly also hasn't happened.
Sad, isn't it? I've had to unfollow old friends on Facebook and block group invites because I got sick of the constant shilling for Rodan+Fields, Jamberry, Lularoe, Nerium, 31 Bags, Lipsense...and now an otherwise very intelligent old college friend is selling some new stick-on nail product (her very obviously scripted announcement went up today).
I've read about the theory that those ads and bots are PURPOSELY bad. It's easy and cheap to spam thousands but it takes effort to chat one-by-one to actually recruit or sell, so those ads are an excellent filter to only keep those who are really clueless.
The same thing with other scams, like "Nigerian Prince" stuff. Those emails are terrible and only really naive people will answer, and from those people they can actually get the money.
-
do these MLM sellers not realize that people might notice a difference from their normal, relatively articulate posts and their suddenly peppy posts with nearly every other word interrupted by a corresponding emoji? it's nice for the reader, because it's easy to notice what it is right away and move past the ad, but still. not the best marketing move.
The people who create email spam or the bots that troll chat rooms never moved past that either.
fair point! i suppose by my same argument, one would assume that this reasonably intelligent acquaintence of mine would recognize a pyramid scheme when she saw one - which clearly also hasn't happened.
Sad, isn't it? I've had to unfollow old friends on Facebook and block group invites because I got sick of the constant shilling for Rodan+Fields, Jamberry, Lularoe, Nerium, 31 Bags, Lipsense...and now an otherwise very intelligent old college friend is selling some new stick-on nail product (her very obviously scripted announcement went up today).
That’s the sad part when someone you think of as being rather smart starts selling that stuff.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
-
I've read about the theory that those ads and bots are PURPOSELY bad. It's easy and cheap to spam thousands but it takes effort to chat one-by-one to actually recruit or sell, so those ads are an excellent filter to only keep those who are really clueless.
The same thing with other scams, like "Nigerian Prince" stuff. Those emails are terrible and only really naive people will answer, and from those people they can actually get the money.
Interesting, never thought about it this way.
-
I am soooooo tired of people hitting me up for this. And it's always the same old trite BS... "are you tired of your 9-5" "don't you want to find another way" "look great and earn money too" etc. Uh, aren't YOU working your 9-5, while ALSO selling these bogus products on the side? Leave me alone!
-
I've read about the theory that those ads and bots are PURPOSELY bad. It's easy and cheap to spam thousands but it takes effort to chat one-by-one to actually recruit or sell, so those ads are an excellent filter to only keep those who are really clueless.
The same thing with other scams, like "Nigerian Prince" stuff. Those emails are terrible and only really naive people will answer, and from those people they can actually get the money.
Interesting, never thought about it this way.
On the other hand, it is a very handy way to discretely evaluate how much you need to worry about your elderly relatives. My parents are not quite to the stage of falling for it - they're checking with me or sister because they're not sure. But it's worrying for the future.
-
While driving on Sunday I saw a mobile LuLaRoe unit - meaning someone took a stepvan/truck and turned it into a LuLaRoe "store".
The truck looked in overall great shape and the side display looked top notch. I'm betting it wasn't a cheap ordeal - more than likely $10k+ easily.
I wonder if they recouped the money before everyone became a "consultant"? Maybe they did, impossible to know.
You need to wonder no longer! I've got your answer.
(Unless they are the originators of the company, and its most likely they aren't,) they did NOT recoup their money. The following two articles articulate the reasons I am confident in saying so:
1. MULTI-LEVEL MARKETING UNMASKED – A Complete and Compelling Case against MLM as an Unfair and Deceptive Practice by Jon M. Taylor
http://banvaz.com/MLM.pdf (http://banvaz.com/MLM.pdf)
2. The Myth of "Income Opportunity" in Multi-Level Marketing by Robert L. FitzPatrick
http://www.pinktruth.com/wp-content/uploads/fitzpatrick-mlm-study.pdf (http://www.pinktruth.com/wp-content/uploads/fitzpatrick-mlm-study.pdf)
-
Has anyone else been asked out for coffee by a friend and think hey it would be good to catch up only for them to open their ipad/laptop and show you a video on why you should join Dreamtrips/World Ventures and then try to convince you it's not MLM? Happened to me twice. So annoying. I really thought they wanted to catch up. Sigh.
Happened to me this morning.
-
I've read about the theory that those ads and bots are PURPOSELY bad. It's easy and cheap to spam thousands but it takes effort to chat one-by-one to actually recruit or sell, so those ads are an excellent filter to only keep those who are really clueless.
The same thing with other scams, like "Nigerian Prince" stuff. Those emails are terrible and only really naive people will answer, and from those people they can actually get the money.
Interesting, never thought about it this way.
On the other hand, it is a very handy way to discretely evaluate how much you need to worry about your elderly relatives. My parents are not quite to the stage of falling for it - they're checking with me or sister because they're not sure. But it's worrying for the future.
That is a very interesting yard stick...several years back, my dad wondered about my grandfather's cognitive abilities as he went from self employed mechanical engineer, to a guy who was seemingly addicted to buying As-seen-on-TV products.
-
OMG...the "Hey girl...did you have a chance to check out...?"
I know it's a cliche...but do they have to do it?
Hey girl...I'm 47 effing years old.
Anyway, hey Beachbody has a new eating plan out, dontcha know? I love reading about diet and fitness, and buying cookbooks and food plan books and such...it's kinda a hobby of mine. But I want to answer:
"hey girl, I'm kinda busy. Husband traveling, kid baseball playoffs, running a half marathon this weekend, big work projects...not happening any time soon."
And "well, for now I kinda have it all figured out, ya know? I'm at a healthy weight, don't need to lose any, what I'm doing is working...not sure a $75 'plan' with videos and such and '4 new tricks' is really what I need".
Plus I'm a dinosaur and I HATE videos. Hate them. I want to read a book.
-
OMG...the "Hey girl...did you have a chance to check out...?"
I know it's a cliche...but do they have to do it?
Hey girl...I'm 47 effing years old.
Anyway, hey Beachbody has a new eating plan out, dontcha know? I love reading about diet and fitness, and buying cookbooks and food plan books and such...it's kinda a hobby of mine. But I want to answer:
"hey girl, I'm kinda busy. Husband traveling, kid baseball playoffs, running a half marathon this weekend, big work projects...not happening any time soon."
And "well, for now I kinda have it all figured out, ya know? I'm at a healthy weight, don't need to lose any, what I'm doing is working...not sure a $75 'plan' with videos and such and '4 new tricks' is really what I need".
Plus I'm a dinosaur and I HATE videos. Hate them. I want to read a book.
The only “hey girl” message I will respond to is it it comes from Ryan Gosling himself.
-
Now Rodan + Fields is facing a lawsuit...
http://www.scarymommy.com/cosmetic-mlm-company-rodan-and-fields-is-being-sued-and-absolutely-no-one-is-surprised/?utm_source=FBOnsite
The suit alleges that Rodan + Fields did not disclose the use of an additive that can cause severe side effects, including vision impairment.
Court documents filed in April 2018 in U.S. District Court in Oakland state, “Consumers of Lash Boost … have experienced serious side effects, including change(s) in iris color, eyelid drooping, itchy eyes, eye/lid discoloration, thinning and loss of eyelashes/loss of eyelash hair, eye sensitivity, eye infections, and vision impairment.”
-
Now Rodan + Fields is facing a lawsuit...
http://www.scarymommy.com/cosmetic-mlm-company-rodan-and-fields-is-being-sued-and-absolutely-no-one-is-surprised/?utm_source=FBOnsite
The suit alleges that Rodan + Fields did not disclose the use of an additive that can cause severe side effects, including vision impairment.
Court documents filed in April 2018 in U.S. District Court in Oakland state, “Consumers of Lash Boost … have experienced serious side effects, including change(s) in iris color, eyelid drooping, itchy eyes, eye/lid discoloration, thinning and loss of eyelashes/loss of eyelash hair, eye sensitivity, eye infections, and vision impairment.”
300,000 consultants?! Either a) half those folks have no customers or b) every other adult in America has to be buying this stuff.
-
I don't have any new MLM stories lately, but someone I went to high school with has a conflict of interest on her sleeve that nobody else seems to notice (and pumping personal contacts for financial gain which this thread got me thinking). A couple years ago she started hitting us all up on Facebook to go on a cruise. I thought it was out of the blue and aside from accepting her as a FB friend ages ago I never even looked at her profile. This time I took a notice that her profile pic was of her in a Dominoes uniform which seemed odd for someone trying to put together a cruise. I dug a little deeper and saw that she is part of some travel agency group of which she appears to be the only employee (their facebook page is nothing but photos of her). The cruise idea died on the vine from lack of interest. Fast forward to this weekend where she's taken it upon herself to organize our 20th class reunion. She wants to do it at a casino a couple hours from where we all grew up which will include a venue, group hotel reservations, flights, and some other things that have to be booked well in advance (that she needs to be in the loop on for some reason). I can't help but wonder if she's getting some kind of deal or kickback out of this arrangement that she's not disclosing.
So the reunion this summer is officially dead. We're within the window for making venue reservations and only a handful of people confirmed their attendance. A smaller group of us decided we're going to just barbecue or get together at a restaurant that we can reserve later this summer when more of our schedules intersect. The "organizer" who complained in the Facebook group chat all morning long about how we need to put some more effort into this put forth "let's just plan something next summer that we can properly organize like trying the casino again or a cruise." Nobody in our class but her is suggesting a cruise. Most of the folks I went to school with can't afford it. Nobody has called her out directly, but a couple other classmates who know she's doing this to try get some kind of booking fee have made it loudly known these ideas of her will never work with our class.
-
Just got hit up by an old college acquaintance who is selling Jamberry. "Hey Girl!" When I was in college, I chewed the crap out of my nails. I never wore makeup or fancy clothes. Why oh why does she think I would ever buy overpriced crappy nail wraps is beyond me. But I guess she's just spamming her friends list randomly. Block, block, block. I hate being targeted like that, it makes me feel like I'm not a person to them, just a mark.
-
Now Rodan + Fields is facing a lawsuit...
http://www.scarymommy.com/cosmetic-mlm-company-rodan-and-fields-is-being-sued-and-absolutely-no-one-is-surprised/?utm_source=FBOnsite
The suit alleges that Rodan + Fields did not disclose the use of an additive that can cause severe side effects, including vision impairment.
Court documents filed in April 2018 in U.S. District Court in Oakland state, “Consumers of Lash Boost … have experienced serious side effects, including change(s) in iris color, eyelid drooping, itchy eyes, eye/lid discoloration, thinning and loss of eyelashes/loss of eyelash hair, eye sensitivity, eye infections, and vision impairment.”
300,000 consultants?! Either a) half those folks have no customers or b) every other adult in America has to be buying this stuff.
I know a few of these consultants. One of them is a quite successful college graduate/ businesswoman in her own right. So, I can totally get that there are products that you try, and like, and work for you. For example. (Though I'd argue there are probably much cheaper equivalent "product" out there, I don't use "product", so I don't know.)
Most recent FB post about her awesome upcoming trip to Greece with her boyfriend, financed by her "side job" at R+F!
I dunno. With the proliferation of Beachbody coaches -I've got a lot of people who suggest to me a "side gig" (or like the guy at the gym: "you should go back into the reserves and collect a pension eventually!"). While the idea of another stream of income is attractive -
I'm 47 fucking years old - do I need a side gig?
I have a full time job and 2 kids (um, they are my "side gig?" Or maybe my second full time job.)
-
I'm amazed at the crap people put/lather on their faces in search of "beauty".
If you need a reminder watch YouTube. There are people there who are unrecognizable once they are all dolled up.
-
I'm amazed at the crap people put/lather on their faces in search of "beauty".
Right?! A couple of years ago, I kept seeing ads for products containing "snail extract" (i.e., the slimy mucus produced by snails). No thank you.
Topic. One of my friends has started selling 31 Bags. She's not pushy about it in person, but I might need to unfollow her on Facebook because she posts about a dozen times per day when she's having an online party.
Two other friends are now selling essential oils. I've gotten some super fun unsolicited advice about which essential oils I should use for my seasonal allergies because they're "so much better" than pharmaceuticals. Apparently pharmaceuticals are "chemicals" and "chemicals" are always bad, despite that they were designed to specifically target histamine receptors, have passed through rigorous research and clinical trial protocols with good safety and efficacy outcomes, and are much cheaper as Costco generics than little bottles of unregulated substance from a pyramid scheme. (I have degrees in biochemistry and immunology. I have no patience for woo-woo.)
-
OMG...the "Hey girl...did you have a chance to check out...?"
I know it's a cliche...but do they have to do it?
Hey girl...I'm 47 effing years old.
Anyway, hey Beachbody has a new eating plan out, dontcha know? I love reading about diet and fitness, and buying cookbooks and food plan books and such...it's kinda a hobby of mine. But I want to answer:
"hey girl, I'm kinda busy. Husband traveling, kid baseball playoffs, running a half marathon this weekend, big work projects...not happening any time soon."
And "well, for now I kinda have it all figured out, ya know? I'm at a healthy weight, don't need to lose any, what I'm doing is working...not sure a $75 'plan' with videos and such and '4 new tricks' is really what I need".
Plus I'm a dinosaur and I HATE videos. Hate them. I want to read a book.
OMG you sound exactly like me! I mean, I'm not at the healthy weight yet, but I'm getting there. Just sub out baseball for soccer and put the half marathon in 2.5 weeks. :) If you have any food plan for fitness books you could recommend as I'm getting more serious about it, would you mind sharing what they are? I'd rather read a book than a video too...I HATE videos and thought I was the only one who felt that way!
A slight acquaintance who absolutely does NOT know me is trying to push this new Beachbody eating plan. I got an email from her recently with that EXACT intro: Hey girl, have you had a chance to check out..." so this is absolutely hysterical to me (and a little sad...well, maybe a lot sad). I turn 40 this year and have three kids, and work as an engineer. I don't wear makeup or go out. There is exactly ONE person who can say "hey girl" to me and it won't make me crazy, and it is NOT random beachbody person I don't know...
-
Oh lord, now the friend who sells essential oils is hosting a party for the friend who sells 31 Bags. It just keeps morphing and expanding.
-
I'm amazed at the crap people put/lather on their faces in search of "beauty".
If you need a reminder watch YouTube. There are people there who are unrecognizable once they are all dolled up.
I have unfortunately seen a few. I kind of feel bad for the women.
https://youtu.be/USTvFDum8po
That just sent me on a half hour detour...
-
Oh lord, now the friend who sells essential oils is hosting a party for the friend who sells 31 Bags. It just keeps morphing and expanding.
Cross-pollinating MLMs. Is there a pill for that? Or an insecticide?
-
I recently had a friend that messaged me on Facebook a month or so ago.
I posted on my page asking for friends to tell me their travel hacks and any websites/apps they used to find cheap tickets. I got a decent amount of responses, many of which were helpful, and a message from this friend who said something along the lines of, "Sounds like you are traveling a ton, do you have time to meet recently or are you too busy?"
Polite I responded that even if I am busy I am happy to make time for a friend if they tell me what they want to meet about (essentially are you wanting to catch up or is there something urgent), and he responded by asking if I could meet at various times. To which I responded, "Sorry I'm busy," after going to his page and seeing a bunch of Beachbody stuff.
Dude just be honest and tell me that it is a sales pitch. I would have been massively pissed if he managed to con me into a meeting only to discuss Shakesology or some other nonsense.
-
OMG...the "Hey girl...did you have a chance to check out...?"
I know it's a cliche...but do they have to do it?
Hey girl...I'm 47 effing years old.
Anyway, hey Beachbody has a new eating plan out, dontcha know? I love reading about diet and fitness, and buying cookbooks and food plan books and such...it's kinda a hobby of mine. But I want to answer:
"hey girl, I'm kinda busy. Husband traveling, kid baseball playoffs, running a half marathon this weekend, big work projects...not happening any time soon."
And "well, for now I kinda have it all figured out, ya know? I'm at a healthy weight, don't need to lose any, what I'm doing is working...not sure a $75 'plan' with videos and such and '4 new tricks' is really what I need".
Plus I'm a dinosaur and I HATE videos. Hate them. I want to read a book.
OMG you sound exactly like me! I mean, I'm not at the healthy weight yet, but I'm getting there. Just sub out baseball for soccer and put the half marathon in 2.5 weeks. :) If you have any food plan for fitness books you could recommend as I'm getting more serious about it, would you mind sharing what they are? I'd rather read a book than a video too...I HATE videos and thought I was the only one who felt that way!
A slight acquaintance who absolutely does NOT know me is trying to push this new Beachbody eating plan. I got an email from her recently with that EXACT intro: Hey girl, have you had a chance to check out..." so this is absolutely hysterical to me (and a little sad...well, maybe a lot sad). I turn 40 this year and have three kids, and work as an engineer. I don't wear makeup or go out. There is exactly ONE person who can say "hey girl" to me and it won't make me crazy, and it is NOT random beachbody person I don't know...
@FireHiker Ah ha ha ha I am also an engineer. Great minds.
So, what worked well for me to lose the "I had a baby at 42" weight was actually the Beachbody program 21-day fix. Color coded containers, and honestly, all the info is available on line these days if you dig for it. Here's why it worked for me:
- 2 servings of carbs a day (1/2 cup of rice, 1 slice of toast, 1/2 cup of beans - these are a carb). Prior to 21-day fix, I was still trying to stick to 6 servings in the food pyramid
- "What to Eat" by Luise Light. You see, 21-day fix worked, but only a little bit. Because I was resistant to only 2 carbs a day. Four months in, I read this book, and it clicked with me that I couldn't eat all. the. carbs. I found her book through "Death by Food Pyramid" by Denise Minger.
- I didn't really know how to eat food without carbs. Cereal for breakfast, sandwich for lunch, pasta for dinner. So...I bought (for $1) a book by Chris Powell on carb-cycling (E-book on Amazon). The low carb days literally have one serving of carbs for breakfast. I did this for about a month, and the book helped me figure out what the heck to eat without carbs (seems silly that I needed it, but whatever).
- After that, it was easier.
Once I hit goal weight, I adjusted things a bit because 21-day fix just had too much protein for me. I shifted towards a bit more carbs (2-4 servings a day, and now I count beans as a protein), and more fat.
Then last year I started having problems with wheat (digestive) and when I eliminated it I lost 8 lbs unintentionally (I didn't cut carbs or calories, just subbed different ones).
In any event, a little recon tells me that my regular eating plan is almost identical to this new Beachbody program. Ha! I eat plenty of fat
Breakfast:
- A carb and a protein with fat (oatmeal w/ peanut butter and banana. Eggs and tortillas. GF toast with cheese. Yogurt and fruit with granola)
Snack
- fruit and nuts
Lunch:
- salad. Always salad. Lots of veggies and greens (3-4 cups). Olive oil based dressing and I don't skimp on it. Cheese (1/2 to 1 oz). Olives. 2 Tbsp of sunflower seeds. Sometimes additional protein but not necessary.
Dinner:
- a protein, a carb and vegetables. 1/4 of the plate protein (beans count) - about 1/2 cup. 1/4 of the plate carb. At least a cup of veggies, usually with plenty of olive oil or tahini or avocado or cheese.
-
@mm1970, thanks!! I've been focusing so much on the fitness end of things training for a half marathon and a big hike (Mt Whitney) in July that I've just been eating whatever I want. The weight is still coming off, just MUCH slower than it would be if I paid more attention to the diet side of things. Diet is 80% of it after all, and I bet if I could drop 20-30 pounds my times would get faster too. I'm going to check if my library has those books you mentioned. It's so funny to me that the sensible eating approach is what BeachBody is packaging as a "new" plan. Call it something new and charge a bunch of money, and people will go for it I guess.
-
@mm1970, thanks!! I've been focusing so much on the fitness end of things training for a half marathon and a big hike (Mt Whitney) in July that I've just been eating whatever I want. The weight is still coming off, just MUCH slower than it would be if I paid more attention to the diet side of things. Diet is 80% of it after all, and I bet if I could drop 20-30 pounds my times would get faster too. I'm going to check if my library has those books you mentioned. It's so funny to me that the sensible eating approach is what BeachBody is packaging as a "new" plan. Call it something new and charge a bunch of money, and people will go for it I guess.
I think it's just funny because it took a long awhile, but I got there on my own. It also seems a lot like "Volumetrics".
I think it can be very helpful and useful for people who eat a lot of carbs and are resistant to cutting them. Until I read a bunch of books, I literally could not figure out how to eat a meal without them. Now, protein, fat, and veggies is normal to me.
Also, I wouldn't try too hard to drop weight while training for a half marathon or to do Whitney either. I ran a half last year that was basically all uphill with a 4000 ft elevation gain. I ate whatever I wanted!
-
I recently had a friend that messaged me on Facebook a month or so ago.
I posted on my page asking for friends to tell me their travel hacks and any websites/apps they used to find cheap tickets. I got a decent amount of responses, many of which were helpful, and a message from this friend who said something along the lines of, "Sounds like you are traveling a ton, do you have time to meet recently or are you too busy?"
Polite I responded that even if I am busy I am happy to make time for a friend if they tell me what they want to meet about (essentially are you wanting to catch up or is there something urgent), and he responded by asking if I could meet at various times. To which I responded, "Sorry I'm busy," after going to his page and seeing a bunch of Beachbody stuff.
Dude just be honest and tell me that it is a sales pitch. I would have been massively pissed if he managed to con me into a meeting only to discuss Shakesology or some other nonsense.
I know there's an insurance MLM, I wonder if they do travel insurance? That, or maybe he's into oils or something "to keep you from getting sick on the plane, or to help you adjust to jet lag, or...!"
-
There's an insurance MLM?????? As an insurance professional I am DEEPLY DEEPLY interested in this. How could you possibly MLM insurance? Maybe it's BS whole life?
If you have more details, please send them.
-
There's an insurance MLM?????? As an insurance professional I am DEEPLY DEEPLY interested in this. How could you possibly MLM insurance? Maybe it's BS whole life?
If you have more details, please send them.
Found this" Primerica employs, according to their prospectus, over 100,000 representatives who go out and sell financial products like term life insurance, mutual funds, life insurance, and annuities."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Primerica
-
Indeed, my biggest relationship with MLM's is through Primerica (an Uncle and his whole family). They sell insurance and incredibly horrible mutual funds (4% MER's with deferred sales charges all through them that are swapped over every 2 years it seems to a new one).
It has recently started serious turmoil with their immediate family as they're all approaching retirement age. They have obviously gotten nowhere with the amount of churning and management fees they've been paying. I'm pretty shocked it's not an actual criminal offense to take people's money like that.
-
There's an insurance MLM?????? As an insurance professional I am DEEPLY DEEPLY interested in this. How could you possibly MLM insurance? Maybe it's BS whole life?
If you have more details, please send them.
Found this" Primerica employs, according to their prospectus, over 100,000 representatives who go out and sell financial products like term life insurance, mutual funds, life insurance, and annuities."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Primerica
In Canada (and presumably US) there is also World Financial Group. They want you to be their client, but especially to then sign up to work for them in order to bring in all your contacts. I don't know all the details but I believe WFG owns the clients (or your team leader or whatever). So if you leave, they don't care- more clients for them.
A lot of money is made by having people under you. I think they sell a lot of whole life, while Primerica has focused on term.
(Also an independent insurance professional.)
-
There's an insurance MLM?????? As an insurance professional I am DEEPLY DEEPLY interested in this. How could you possibly MLM insurance? Maybe it's BS whole life?
If you have more details, please send them.
Found this" Primerica employs, according to their prospectus, over 100,000 representatives who go out and sell financial products like term life insurance, mutual funds, life insurance, and annuities."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Primerica
In Canada (and presumably US) there is also World Financial Group. They want you to be their client, but especially to then sign up to work for them in order to bring in all your contacts. I don't know all the details but I believe WFG owns the clients (or your team leader or whatever). So if you leave, they don't care- more clients for them.
A lot of money is made by having people under you. I think they sell a lot of whole life, while Primerica has focused on term.
(Also an independent insurance professional.)
A good friend of mine got caught up in this. She ended up losing over $2k in seminars, fees and licensing.
Complete waste.
My cousin and her husband do this. 'Changed their life' apparently.
Before I knew anything about anything I went with them to a couple WFG related events/meetings. My spidey senses were on overdrive the whole time.
-
There's an insurance MLM?????? As an insurance professional I am DEEPLY DEEPLY interested in this. How could you possibly MLM insurance? Maybe it's BS whole life?
If you have more details, please send them.
Found this" Primerica employs, according to their prospectus, over 100,000 representatives who go out and sell financial products like term life insurance, mutual funds, life insurance, and annuities."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Primerica
In Canada (and presumably US) there is also World Financial Group. They want you to be their client, but especially to then sign up to work for them in order to bring in all your contacts. I don't know all the details but I believe WFG owns the clients (or your team leader or whatever). So if you leave, they don't care- more clients for them.
A lot of money is made by having people under you. I think they sell a lot of whole life, while Primerica has focused on term.
(Also an independent insurance professional.)
Yes, I did a deep dive into this business for a acquaintance who was pitched it.
The end result is that if you have a strong network and want to cold call to a LOT of people, and don't mind selling over priced financial products to people you like, you can make money, even if you don't have any financial certification / training before you start. (they train you and get you certified for selling the basic items in the first six months.).
My acquaintance was an immigrant with a working visa, and new to Canada. So this, for the right person, can lead into more $$ than working at burger king. BUT, you need to have a network, be personable and smart, and put in a LOT of calling / cold calling.
The products were shitty for the people buying them, however. They had even sold group educational plans "Heritage Plan" Education trusts, which we know were very costly to the purchasers and profitable to the sales people.
At the end of 2 years, the rational person in this company would leave WFG and get hired with Edward Jones or another mutual fund group to make more (2-5x more) money, but those other big guys are not going to hire a new immigrant with no financial experience.
The "closed door and you can't leave the room" intro and educational sessions for the new hires are set up like AMWAY, and they charge you for them, too.
-
Oh man- I didn't realize primerica was the crap that we had to listen to when I did my pre-cana before my wedding in 2004. (I just remembered a red umbrella.)
They wanted us to give 5 names of friends who could also use financial advise. But their advise was so ridiculous we declined.
I can't remember what funds and budget they set up for us, but when i was asked a dream car, I said a Prius. The guy said he didn't know how much a Prius costs, so he estimated $70k as that was about the same as the Boxster my husband answered with. (Also- my husband has no intention of ever actually purchasing one of those).
The internet was around in 2004. He could have figured out the price of a prius. So we steered very very clear. I'm glad we did.
-
slightly OT but what are the ethics of buying an MLM product off ebay? I really like some Mary Kay products, but don't want to get spammed by a consultant. I noticed that former consultants are offloading their products on ebay for less than retail. On one hand, I want a good deal on a product I like, on the other I feel slimy for taking advantage of their misfortune.
-
slightly OT but what are the ethics of buying an MLM product off ebay? I really like some Mary Kay products, but don't want to get spammed by a consultant. I noticed that former consultants are offloading their products on ebay for less than retail. On one hand, I want a good deal on a product I like, on the other I feel slimy for taking advantage of their misfortune.
I would think of it as being an agent of Karma. Besides, if the MLM dealer feels like she's in danger of being ripped off, all she needs to do is to set a reserve price below which she will not sell the product. You may actually be helping her out by making it possible to get some of her money out of the pyramid scheme, since by the time she starts offloading her makeup stash she'll generally have wised up about Mary Kay.
-
slightly OT but what are the ethics of buying an MLM product off ebay? I really like some Mary Kay products, but don't want to get spammed by a consultant. I noticed that former consultants are offloading their products on ebay for less than retail. On one hand, I want a good deal on a product I like, on the other I feel slimy for taking advantage of their misfortune.
Personally I wouldn't have a problem with it. Or even buying direct from your friend if you like the product. The slimy thing about MLMs is the pyramid scheme nature of it and the often shoddy untested products, but there's nothing inherently evil about buying the product from your friend if you like it. Besides, buying off of people who are unloading and getting out is actually doing them a favor. You're helping them recoup some of their losses instead of having to take a dead loss.
-
slightly OT but what are the ethics of buying an MLM product off ebay? I really like some Mary Kay products, but don't want to get spammed by a consultant. I noticed that former consultants are offloading their products on ebay for less than retail. On one hand, I want a good deal on a product I like, on the other I feel slimy for taking advantage of their misfortune.
They're the ones putting their inventory on E-Bay as a last ditch attempt to get something back for failing at the business. Aren't you doing them a disservice by not buying it?
-
Found this" Primerica employs, according to their prospectus, over 100,000 representatives who go out and sell financial products like term life insurance, mutual funds, life insurance, and annuities."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Primerica
In Canada (and presumably US) there is also World Financial Group. They want you to be their client, but especially to then sign up to work for them in order to bring in all your contacts. I don't know all the details but I believe WFG owns the clients (or your team leader or whatever). So if you leave, they don't care- more clients for them.
A lot of money is made by having people under you. I think they sell a lot of whole life, while Primerica has focused on term.
(Also an independent insurance professional.)
Yes, I did a deep dive into this business for a acquaintance who was pitched it.
The end result is that if you have a strong network and want to cold call to a LOT of people, and don't mind selling over priced financial products to people you like, you can make money, even if you don't have any financial certification / training before you start. (they train you and get you certified for selling the basic items in the first six months.).
My acquaintance was an immigrant with a working visa, and new to Canada. So this, for the right person, can lead into more $$ than working at burger king. BUT, you need to have a network, be personable and smart, and put in a LOT of calling / cold calling.
The products were shitty for the people buying them, however. They had even sold group educational plans "Heritage Plan" Education trusts, which we know were very costly to the purchasers and profitable to the sales people.
At the end of 2 years, the rational person in this company would leave WFG and get hired with Edward Jones or another mutual fund group to make more (2-5x more) money, but those other big guys are not going to hire a new immigrant with no financial experience.
The "closed door and you can't leave the room" intro and educational sessions for the new hires are set up like AMWAY, and they charge you for them, too.
Thanks everyone. This is mind boggling. In case it needs to be said, don't buy insurance from someone unless you know what they're making on it and it seems reasonable.
Oh man- I didn't realize primerica was the crap that we had to listen to when I did my pre-cana before my wedding in 2004. (I just remembered a red umbrella.)
They wanted us to give 5 names of friends who could also use financial advise. But their advise was so ridiculous we declined.
I can't remember what funds and budget they set up for us, but when i was asked a dream car, I said a Prius. The guy said he didn't know how much a Prius costs, so he estimated $70k as that was about the same as the Boxster my husband answered with. (Also- my husband has no intention of ever actually purchasing one of those).
The internet was around in 2004. He could have figured out the price of a prius. So we steered very very clear. I'm glad we did.
This is somewhat confusing because, in the insurance world, a red umbrella usually means Travelers, but they do property/casualty and not any MLM or financial advisor stuff. Unless your wedding was in the 1995-2005 time frame when Citi owned the red umbrella. But still, Citi is a reputable financial services company for the most part.
ETA: Now I get it; Primerica is a spin-off of Citi, so they probably did use the red umbrella when Citi owned it and they were part of Citi. I was thinking of some other reasons in my qualifier on Citi's reputation; I guess I can add this to the list.
-
I caught up with some friends yesterday. One of them started talking about ASEA and how she wants to make a "business" out of it. I kept quiet as the warning bells were going off. Googled later. Yep MLM. Once the conversation turned, I asked how her studies were going. If she brings it up again, I have come up with some scripts to say.
-
Over on reddit someone was talking about several people who approached them with "a couple I know who retired in their 30s took me under their wing and showed me how". So apparently they're trying to co-opt FIRE now. Can't roll my eyes hard enough.
-
I'm amazed at the crap people put/lather on their faces in search of "beauty".
If you need a reminder watch YouTube. There are people there who are unrecognizable once they are all dolled up.
I have unfortunately seen a few. I kind of feel bad for the women.
https://youtu.be/USTvFDum8po
Me too.
-
They had even sold group educational plans "Heritage Plan" Education trusts, which we know were very costly to the purchasers and profitable to the sales people.
I can't stand companies (and politicians) that twist and corrupt words like that. Examples: freedom when their real intentions are to make rules that apply to you and me but not so much to them and their's.
Anymore these are words that make my internal warning bells sound.
-
Also, I wouldn't try too hard to drop weight while training for a half marathon or to do Whitney either. I ran a half last year that was basically all uphill with a 4000 ft elevation gain. I ate whatever I wanted!
Damn, 4000 ft elevation gain? Where was that? I am definitely not worrying much about the diet end of things too much at this point, and I've still dropped a clothing size.
-
I can empathize with people who get into an MLM hoping to eke out some extra income. My mom sold Tupperware for a few years as a second job when my dad was laid off of his regular job and was doing anything to pay the mortgage. She made some money but you couldn't look at it based on hourly wage because trading time for $ was a no-brainer, no matter how little the $. Every dollar was important.
It's harder to understand professionals doing it. I have a co-worker who is a department head making good money yet peddles some kind of aromatherapy junk. I suspect it's more about someone who loves the products and signs up to be a reseller in order to get their own stuff cheaper. I see that she puts the flyers in the copier room but I've never heard her talk about it.
-
Also, I wouldn't try too hard to drop weight while training for a half marathon or to do Whitney either. I ran a half last year that was basically all uphill with a 4000 ft elevation gain. I ate whatever I wanted!
Damn, 4000 ft elevation gain? Where was that? I am definitely not worrying much about the diet end of things too much at this point, and I've still dropped a clothing size.
https://www.halfmarathons.net/course-map-pier-to-peak-half-marathon/
It was...an experience. It was 75F at the start, 85F by mile 4, and 95F by the half way point. It was brutal. Ugh. I finished anyway, and a whole 10 minutes before they started dismantling the finish line. I melt in the heat.
-
Wow, that's brutal. I could run it in the opposite direction. ;) My brother lives in Ventura and does ultras; I wonder if he's ever run that route for training. It looks right up his alley. I hate running in the heat; it's my big weakness that I guess I'll be addressing this summer as it warms up.
To get back on track: Another facebook friend request from someone I don't know that I think MAY be another MLM person based on the common friends...sigh.
-
I have FB, but it's pretty tame and boring. I have "hidden" enough political and MLM type posts that I don't really see them anymore. I have a few hobby pages I follow (quilting, cooking, frugal living) but mostly have it to kill some time and keep in touch with a handful of friends.
I found two anti-MLM groups and decided to join them. My feed has become much more entertaining the last few days. It's also made me thankful that I haven't been exposed to much in the way of MLM marketing.
-
**APPROVED SCENTSY VENDOR**
You: I’m broke.
Me: Join my team 💰
You: I’m always at work.
Me: Join my team.👔
You: I hate putting my kids in care.
Me: Join my team👶👨👩👧👦
You: I hate my job.
Me; Join my team.💁
You: I need a paid holiday.
Me: Join my team.☀️✈️
You: I'd like to meet more people.
Me: Join my team👭👫👭👫
You: I want lifestyle freedom.
Me: Join my team🙌🙌
You: I want to change lives.
Me: Join my team😍
$99 is changing my life..
All the reasons you have why you can't do this,
should be your reasons why you will.
Spare time, Part time, Full time, make more "you" time, design the life you want to live.
Don't work to build someone else's dream 👨👩👧👦 PM me, let's chat, no commitment! A fresh start!! 💜💜
Want to hear about my special too?
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.
-
Has this been posted (honestly don't remember seeing it, but haven't reviewed the whole thread)?
I haven't finished it, but an interesting read so far.
https://www.ftc.gov/sites/default/files/documents/public_comments/trade-regulation-rule-disclosure-requirements-and-prohibitions-concerning-business-opportunities-ftc.r511993-00008%C2%A0/00008-57281.pdf
-
Has this been posted (honestly don't remember seeing it, but haven't reviewed the whole thread)?
I haven't finished it, but an interesting read so far.
https://www.ftc.gov/sites/default/files/documents/public_comments/trade-regulation-rule-disclosure-requirements-and-prohibitions-concerning-business-opportunities-ftc.r511993-00008%C2%A0/00008-57281.pdf
Only read the first few pages so far, but this would be a great response to any MLM request you get on Facebook. Might come off a little rude if you're really friends with someone but for all those, "Hey girl, it's been so long." types - copy, paste, send.
-
OMG...the "Hey girl...did you have a chance to check out...?"
I know it's a cliche...but do they have to do it?
Hey girl...I'm 47 effing years old.
Anyway, hey Beachbody has a new eating plan out, dontcha know? I love reading about diet and fitness, and buying cookbooks and food plan books and such...it's kinda a hobby of mine. But I want to answer:
"hey girl, I'm kinda busy. Husband traveling, kid baseball playoffs, running a half marathon this weekend, big work projects...not happening any time soon."
And "well, for now I kinda have it all figured out, ya know? I'm at a healthy weight, don't need to lose any, what I'm doing is working...not sure a $75 'plan' with videos and such and '4 new tricks' is really what I need".
Plus I'm a dinosaur and I HATE videos. Hate them. I want to read a book.
OMG you sound exactly like me! I mean, I'm not at the healthy weight yet, but I'm getting there. Just sub out baseball for soccer and put the half marathon in 2.5 weeks. :) If you have any food plan for fitness books you could recommend as I'm getting more serious about it, would you mind sharing what they are? I'd rather read a book than a video too...I HATE videos and thought I was the only one who felt that way!
A slight acquaintance who absolutely does NOT know me is trying to push this new Beachbody eating plan. I got an email from her recently with that EXACT intro: Hey girl, have you had a chance to check out..." so this is absolutely hysterical to me (and a little sad...well, maybe a lot sad). I turn 40 this year and have three kids, and work as an engineer. I don't wear makeup or go out. There is exactly ONE person who can say "hey girl" to me and it won't make me crazy, and it is NOT random beachbody person I don't know...
Racing Weight by Matt Fitzgerald. I think he has written a second book but I don't have that one.
-
My aunt, who is a teacher, shared this post of her friend's:
To all my teacher friends!!! Do you want to know how you can put your background to work during the summer months and earn an INCOME that will pay all YEAR🤗🙌🏼👊🏼😁
Please join me on June 3rd to listen to 4 different teachers talk about how they took control of their health and their finances by inspiring healthy living! Message me for an invite🙌🏼👊🏼😁
I thought, this screams MLM. Yup, Juice Plus. I scrolled through her feed and about 98% of her posts were about it, including using photos of her kids to promote it.
-
Oh man, I thought my aunt's repost of the Juice Plus thing was just that, and that maybe she didn't realize it... but she's been sucked in since last Fall! I guess I don't see her posts often because I hadn't realized.
-
Damn. One of my cousins started messaging me on FB. She's my age and has some of the same interests, but we're not super close, so I was like "oh, maybe we'll get to know each other better, that'd be cool," but no, she just ended her most recent message with "Hey, have you heard of the magic pill?"
So disappointing :(
-
It is so disappointing. A friend who i have not seen in a while, texts me last week wanting to know if want to hang out this Thursday. I say "Yeah, that sounds awesome." She then replies she is having "a couple of people over" to talk about Arbonne. Dang, how do I get out of it now??
-
It is so disappointing. A friend who i have not seen in a while, texts me last week wanting to know if want to hang out this Thursday. I say "Yeah, that sounds awesome." She then replies she is having "a couple of people over" to talk about Arbonne. Dang, how do I get out of it now??
"Sorry, I'm not interested in Arbonne. If you ever want to just hang out sometime, that would be awesome."
-
https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/companies/herbalife-distributors-claim-in-dollar1b-suit-that-events-were-a-sham/ar-BBMdWtk?OCID=ansmsnnews11 (https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/companies/herbalife-distributors-claim-in-dollar1b-suit-that-events-were-a-sham/ar-BBMdWtk?OCID=ansmsnnews11)
"MLM distributors shocked to discover their MLM is exactly like every other MLM their annoying friends warned them about."
Fixed it for you.
Herbalife's website says it has about 8,300 employees worldwide and about 2.3 million distributors.
Los Angeles-based Herbalife, a publicly traded company with 2017 net sales of $4.4 billion
Herbalife has a profit margin of 80%. So my public school math tells me that 2.3 million people grossed $5.28 billion which means each distributor averages $2300 a year in sales. Somehow I don't think the distributors are seeing even that much staying in their pockets at the end of the year.
-
Apparently there really is a MLM for everything.... Saw some information online about a CBD Oil MLM. I guess depending on your state you could become one of those big money success stories.
-
There's a relatively new one for bedding now too! Of course, it's incredibly overpriced, and I'm not sure how many people buy sheets that often to even warrant this model. Then again, there's the MLM that sells toilet paper, and I wouldn't waste my money on the overpriced auto ship feature either. Or the MLM that sells Maxi Pads, and is often shilled by men? Don't want to know what that's about!
I think the newest one to market is called Crunchi, and they sell "chemical free" makeup. My guess is they are trying to appeal to so-called "crunchy" or "Granola" women.
It's like these people have never heard of Amazon, Target, Wal-Mart, Sephora, etc...
-
I saw a facebook post today where someone called MLM's a pyramid scheme, and the huns came out defending this "completely legal, legitimate form of business". And mentioned they are even "endorsed by Warren Buffett".
Uh, not quite. Warren Buffett owns, through Berkshire, major stakes in multiple MLMs (Pampered Chef being the most well known one)- but I don't recall him ever saying being a distributor for them is a good idea. Because those distributors, who think they are their own CEO, but are NOT- are making him, and the people at the top at ton of money. Now if someone can find him going on the record that selling for these companies vs. owning them is a good idea. Well, then I'd be pretty darn shocked.
The business is endorsed by Warren Buffett, not using one of these to "own your own business". Because he sure as heck isn't doing that.
If you can buy up a successful MLM, go for it. But don't buy-in down at the bottom.
-
They also try to pretend they don't know what you mean by MLM, b/c it's Direct Sales, not MLM!
My favorite posts are the ones where they tell you that working in an office is also a pyramid scheme, or the ones where they feel the need to validate that their business is indeed legal, and not a pyramid scheme. Umm, if you have to defend your company to that level, shouldn't that be a clue?
My money is on LuLaRoe failing next. TONS of red flags.
Multiple lawsuits, class action and non, evidence coming out about how they gave the better prints to preferred consultants, so it was never a level playing field
Quality Control is nonexistent, as evidenced by the dresses with the uneven armholes and the V neck tees missing a topstitch, so after a wash, they will look like crap
Defective product returns are being forced to take credit instead of refunds
Tons of consultants waiting months to get their refund checks for returning their inventory when they give up and go out of business
At least 20% of the Top 100 consultants have announced they are leaving and opening their own online boutiques in the past month or so
Their designer was either fired or resigned last week, my money is on fired
There are rumors floating that one of the liquidation firms has admitted that they are getting their product directly from LLR, and then turning around and selling it for cheap to discount stores. (way cheaper than consultants pay for it)
Multiple new product launches were canceled last minute, Halloween leggings will not be released this year (this is their best seller), and consultants who are still ordering directly from them are getting product that is old, as evidenced by their labels and well known crappy patterns. All this is likely due to the tons of return product from consultants that they are trying to clear out, and that they are low on cash so they cannot afford to get new product.
My guess is they are in bankruptcy by early 2019!
-
They also try to pretend they don't know what you mean by MLM, b/c it's Direct Sales, not MLM!
My favorite posts are the ones where they tell you that working in an office is also a pyramid scheme, or the ones where they feel the need to validate that their business is indeed legal, and not a pyramid scheme. Umm, if you have to defend your company to that level, shouldn't that be a clue?
My money is on LuLaRoe failing next. TONS of red flags.
Multiple lawsuits, class action and non, evidence coming out about how they gave the better prints to preferred consultants, so it was never a level playing field
Quality Control is nonexistent, as evidenced by the dresses with the uneven armholes and the V neck tees missing a topstitch, so after a wash, they will look like crap
Defective product returns are being forced to take credit instead of refunds
Tons of consultants waiting months to get their refund checks for returning their inventory when they give up and go out of business
At least 20% of the Top 100 consultants have announced they are leaving and opening their own online boutiques in the past month or so
Their designer was either fired or resigned last week, my money is on fired
There are rumors floating that one of the liquidation firms has admitted that they are getting their product directly from LLR, and then turning around and selling it for cheap to discount stores. (way cheaper than consultants pay for it)
Multiple new product launches were canceled last minute, Halloween leggings will not be released this year (this is their best seller), and consultants who are still ordering directly from them are getting product that is old, as evidenced by their labels and well known crappy patterns. All this is likely due to the tons of return product from consultants that they are trying to clear out, and that they are low on cash so they cannot afford to get new product.
My guess is they are in bankruptcy by early 2019!
You forgot the part about their product being hideous and people finally realizing that screaming obnoxious patterns don't look good on most women.
-
@MountainFlower you are SOO correct on that! I never understood how or why ugly, baggy, cheap clothing ever became a thing...
-
But, for only $55, you too can have an ugly dress with horribly uneven arm holes!!
(https://i1.wp.com/www.mlmnewsreport.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/dani-dress-sleeve-issue-lularoe.png?zoom=1.25&resize=605%2C583&ssl=1)
I'm in an anti-MLM facebook group, and screen shots have been posted from distributors about how to hide the armholes when posting photos so that customers will not realize the "mistake" (can't think of what word to use there).
-
@sparkytheop - I'm in the same group. Quite the sh*t Show!
-
Ugh. A friend with a PhD in medicinal chemistry is selling DoTerra now. If you like the smell of EOs at least get them somewhere online for half the cost.
-
@sparkytheop - I'm in the same group. Quite the sh*t Show!
I'm constantly amazed! I've managed to keep most stuff like this off my own feed (only a few friends are "girl bosses"). But, I love to watch the train wrecks...
-
They also try to pretend they don't know what you mean by MLM, b/c it's Direct Sales, not MLM!
My favorite posts are the ones where they tell you that working in an office is also a pyramid scheme, or the ones where they feel the need to validate that their business is indeed legal, and not a pyramid scheme. Umm, if you have to defend your company to that level, shouldn't that be a clue?
My money is on LuLaRoe failing next. TONS of red flags.
Multiple lawsuits, class action and non, evidence coming out about how they gave the better prints to preferred consultants, so it was never a level playing field
Quality Control is nonexistent, as evidenced by the dresses with the uneven armholes and the V neck tees missing a topstitch, so after a wash, they will look like crap
Defective product returns are being forced to take credit instead of refunds
Tons of consultants waiting months to get their refund checks for returning their inventory when they give up and go out of business
At least 20% of the Top 100 consultants have announced they are leaving and opening their own online boutiques in the past month or so
Their designer was either fired or resigned last week, my money is on fired
There are rumors floating that one of the liquidation firms has admitted that they are getting their product directly from LLR, and then turning around and selling it for cheap to discount stores. (way cheaper than consultants pay for it)
Multiple new product launches were canceled last minute, Halloween leggings will not be released this year (this is their best seller), and consultants who are still ordering directly from them are getting product that is old, as evidenced by their labels and well known crappy patterns. All this is likely due to the tons of return product from consultants that they are trying to clear out, and that they are low on cash so they cannot afford to get new product.
My guess is they are in bankruptcy by early 2019!
You forgot the part about their product being hideous and people finally realizing that screaming obnoxious patterns don't look good on most women.
Meh. I'm kind of a fan of screaming obnoxious patterns, and I'm not especially concerned if someone else things they are ugly. That doesn't mean I'm going to pay $40 for them, or whatever LLR charges.
-
They also try to pretend they don't know what you mean by MLM, b/c it's Direct Sales, not MLM!
My favorite posts are the ones where they tell you that working in an office is also a pyramid scheme, or the ones where they feel the need to validate that their business is indeed legal, and not a pyramid scheme. Umm, if you have to defend your company to that level, shouldn't that be a clue?
My money is on LuLaRoe failing next. TONS of red flags.
Multiple lawsuits, class action and non, evidence coming out about how they gave the better prints to preferred consultants, so it was never a level playing field
Quality Control is nonexistent, as evidenced by the dresses with the uneven armholes and the V neck tees missing a topstitch, so after a wash, they will look like crap
Defective product returns are being forced to take credit instead of refunds
Tons of consultants waiting months to get their refund checks for returning their inventory when they give up and go out of business
At least 20% of the Top 100 consultants have announced they are leaving and opening their own online boutiques in the past month or so
Their designer was either fired or resigned last week, my money is on fired
There are rumors floating that one of the liquidation firms has admitted that they are getting their product directly from LLR, and then turning around and selling it for cheap to discount stores. (way cheaper than consultants pay for it)
Multiple new product launches were canceled last minute, Halloween leggings will not be released this year (this is their best seller), and consultants who are still ordering directly from them are getting product that is old, as evidenced by their labels and well known crappy patterns. All this is likely due to the tons of return product from consultants that they are trying to clear out, and that they are low on cash so they cannot afford to get new product.
My guess is they are in bankruptcy by early 2019!
You forgot the part about their product being hideous and people finally realizing that screaming obnoxious patterns don't look good on most women.
Friend at work was wearing a LLR design which actually looked OK on her and I asked her about it. She mentioned LLR and all sounded good until she mentioned having to meet a "retailer" aka consultant in order to buy which raised the MLM flag with me and I never followed up.
And the patterns are too bold for most women IMHO and certainly for me. My friend was wearing one of the "tamer" designs.
-
I had to laugh - my cousin has started selling Scentsy and yesterday she made a post on facebook that was obviously a copy and paste sales tactic given to her by someone else. It started out ok "Everyone who knows me or who has seen my bathroom counter knows I'm obsessed with scents.." but later on there were parts that said <insert scent here> and she left it like that! I busted out laughing. If you are going to copy and paste a company-provided facebook post, at least read through it and follow the directions first!
-
Ha! That reminds me of a screenshot I saw years ago, of the first version of a newspaper obituary for an unpopular person. It contained the line [Insert positive quote here].
-
I just got an invite from a friend to attend a "meal prep party." Oh cool, I think, here's a chance to hang out with friends while doing a chore I hate, maybe share some good recipes, take advantage of bulk buying, etc.
Nope. It's a Wildtree party.
For a mere $60, you will make 10 "freezer meals," which seemed like an OK deal. And then I read on. You still have to supply your own main ingredients (meats, veggies, etc) and packaging and pretty much everything except some spices and sauces. "Simply purchase produce and proteins from your local store or farmers market, then whip up a quick and easy meal from fresh that your family can enjoy together, even when you're short on time!"
You're expected to show up with all of these items already prepped (chicken chopped, peppers diced, etc.) So you do the shitty part of meal prepping all alone. Then you schlep all of your prepared groceries over to the host's house to buy and mix-in individual meal-sized packages of sauces and spice mixes.
I hopped on the website to figure out what was actually included in the purchase. In one example, you get a shopping list, recipes, four kinds of seasoning, a small bottle of grapeseed oil, and nothing else. For $55.
I just can't even wrap my head around this one.
-
I just got an invite from a friend to attend a "meal prep party." Oh cool, I think, here's a chance to hang out with friends while doing a chore I hate, maybe share some good recipes, take advantage of bulk buying, etc.
Nope. It's a Wildtree party.
For a mere $60, you will make 10 "freezer meals," which seemed like an OK deal. And then I read on. You still have to supply your own main ingredients (meats, veggies, etc) and packaging and pretty much everything except some spices and sauces. "Simply purchase produce and proteins from your local store or farmers market, then whip up a quick and easy meal from fresh that your family can enjoy together, even when you're short on time!"
You're expected to show up with all of these items already prepped (chicken chopped, peppers diced, etc.) So you do the shitty part of meal prepping all alone. Then you schlep all of your prepared groceries over to the host's house to buy and mix-in individual meal-sized packages of sauces and spice mixes.
I hopped on the website to figure out what was actually included in the purchase. In one example, you get a shopping list, recipes, four kinds of seasoning, a small bottle of grapeseed oil, and nothing else. For $55.
I just can't even wrap my head around this one.
That is an abomination. Woe to this God-forsaken MLM.
-
I just got an invite from a friend to attend a "meal prep party." Oh cool, I think, here's a chance to hang out with friends while doing a chore I hate, maybe share some good recipes, take advantage of bulk buying, etc.
Nope. It's a Wildtree party.
For a mere $60, you will make 10 "freezer meals," which seemed like an OK deal. And then I read on. You still have to supply your own main ingredients (meats, veggies, etc) and packaging and pretty much everything except some spices and sauces. "Simply purchase produce and proteins from your local store or farmers market, then whip up a quick and easy meal from fresh that your family can enjoy together, even when you're short on time!"
You're expected to show up with all of these items already prepped (chicken chopped, peppers diced, etc.) So you do the shitty part of meal prepping all alone. Then you schlep all of your prepared groceries over to the host's house to buy and mix-in individual meal-sized packages of sauces and spice mixes.
I hopped on the website to figure out what was actually included in the purchase. In one example, you get a shopping list, recipes, four kinds of seasoning, a small bottle of grapeseed oil, and nothing else. For $55.
I just can't even wrap my head around this one.
That is an abomination. Woe to this God-forsaken MLM.
Yup, my wife got sucked into one of these. $55 gets you the spices and the "experience". Such a terrible MLM... recipes aren't even that good.
-
I just got an invite from a friend to attend a "meal prep party." Oh cool, I think, here's a chance to hang out with friends while doing a chore I hate, maybe share some good recipes, take advantage of bulk buying, etc.
Nope. It's a Wildtree party.
For a mere $60, you will make 10 "freezer meals," which seemed like an OK deal. And then I read on. You still have to supply your own main ingredients (meats, veggies, etc) and packaging and pretty much everything except some spices and sauces. "Simply purchase produce and proteins from your local store or farmers market, then whip up a quick and easy meal from fresh that your family can enjoy together, even when you're short on time!"
You're expected to show up with all of these items already prepped (chicken chopped, peppers diced, etc.) So you do the shitty part of meal prepping all alone. Then you schlep all of your prepared groceries over to the host's house to buy and mix-in individual meal-sized packages of sauces and spice mixes.
I hopped on the website to figure out what was actually included in the purchase. In one example, you get a shopping list, recipes, four kinds of seasoning, a small bottle of grapeseed oil, and nothing else. For $55.
I just can't even wrap my head around this one.
God damn, I'm scratching my head wondering what kind of people would this even appeal to? Not frugal people who are into meal prep for budget benefits. Not lazy people who want to eat healthier for low effort, because it's almost as much work as just doing everything yourself. Not people who just don't know anything about food/cooking and are trying to learn, because the shopping list seems to require some base knowledge already, since you're shopping for base ingredients and not things in boxes, and you have to do a lot of preparation work in advance.
Maybe people who want to do it for socializing?
-
I just got an invite from a friend to attend a "meal prep party." Oh cool, I think, here's a chance to hang out with friends while doing a chore I hate, maybe share some good recipes, take advantage of bulk buying, etc.
Nope. It's a Wildtree party.
For a mere $60, you will make 10 "freezer meals," which seemed like an OK deal. And then I read on. You still have to supply your own main ingredients (meats, veggies, etc) and packaging and pretty much everything except some spices and sauces. "Simply purchase produce and proteins from your local store or farmers market, then whip up a quick and easy meal from fresh that your family can enjoy together, even when you're short on time!"
You're expected to show up with all of these items already prepped (chicken chopped, peppers diced, etc.) So you do the shitty part of meal prepping all alone. Then you schlep all of your prepared groceries over to the host's house to buy and mix-in individual meal-sized packages of sauces and spice mixes.
I hopped on the website to figure out what was actually included in the purchase. In one example, you get a shopping list, recipes, four kinds of seasoning, a small bottle of grapeseed oil, and nothing else. For $55.
I just can't even wrap my head around this one.
God damn, I'm scratching my head wondering what kind of people would this even appeal to? Not frugal people who are into meal prep for budget benefits. Not lazy people who want to eat healthier for low effort, because it's almost as much work as just doing everything yourself. Not people who just don't know anything about food/cooking and are trying to learn, because the shopping list seems to require some base knowledge already, since you're shopping for base ingredients and not things in boxes, and you have to do a lot of preparation work in advance.
Maybe people who want to do it for socializing?
It's a head scratcher for sure.
-
I just got an invite from a friend to attend a "meal prep party." Oh cool, I think, here's a chance to hang out with friends while doing a chore I hate, maybe share some good recipes, take advantage of bulk buying, etc.
Nope. It's a Wildtree party.
For a mere $60, you will make 10 "freezer meals," which seemed like an OK deal. And then I read on. You still have to supply your own main ingredients (meats, veggies, etc) and packaging and pretty much everything except some spices and sauces. "Simply purchase produce and proteins from your local store or farmers market, then whip up a quick and easy meal from fresh that your family can enjoy together, even when you're short on time!"
You're expected to show up with all of these items already prepped (chicken chopped, peppers diced, etc.) So you do the shitty part of meal prepping all alone. Then you schlep all of your prepared groceries over to the host's house to buy and mix-in individual meal-sized packages of sauces and spice mixes.
I hopped on the website to figure out what was actually included in the purchase. In one example, you get a shopping list, recipes, four kinds of seasoning, a small bottle of grapeseed oil, and nothing else. For $55.
I just can't even wrap my head around this one.
God damn, I'm scratching my head wondering what kind of people would this even appeal to? Not frugal people who are into meal prep for budget benefits. Not lazy people who want to eat healthier for low effort, because it's almost as much work as just doing everything yourself. Not people who just don't know anything about food/cooking and are trying to learn, because the shopping list seems to require some base knowledge already, since you're shopping for base ingredients and not things in boxes, and you have to do a lot of preparation work in advance.
Maybe people who want to do it for socializing?
That's the only advantage I can see. I guess you also get wine and snacks at the party. The meager comments on the event say things like "Should be a good way to force myself to prep." Heck, for $40, I would happily call you up and harass you about prepping meals and send you a grocery list. What a steal!
-
I do think that they've hit on one good idea, though: a meal prep party. If I was into meal prepping and had like-minded friends, that could be a really good time. Everyone brings a recipe, group trip to Costco to buy ingredients in bulk, come home, do the chopping etc all together with wine and snacks and music, and everyone leaves with a variety of prepped meals.
Unfortunately, I'm not the cook in my house, and he prefers to cook every day because it's relaxing for him. (I know, he's weird.) Plus I don't know any friends who prep meals.
-
Yeah, I thought that was a great idea!
-
@sparkytheop - I'm in the same group. Quite the sh*t Show!
What group is it? I want to join it!
One of my friends started posting about her weight loss progress. She was making great progress and her posts were interesting and encouraging. Then they started take on that weird MLM tone - lots of emojis; unnaturally formatted; language and tone that didn't really sound like her; calls to contact her in private message to learn more about her journey. She quit her job and became a "health coach." But she never mentioned an MLM. She started posting other people's Before And After photos and I finally was able to spot the tiny watermark for the weight loss MLM she's shilling for. It's just disappointing. I'm happy for her success, and I used to like her posts, but now I just want to hide her posts. I think that intentionally pretending you're not shilling for an MLM is the height of dishonesty. "Well, I know no one wants to buy into my MLM, so I'll pretend I'm not representing an MLM and then trick them into joining my MLM!"
-
There was a (brick and mortar) business in our area that used to host meal prep parties. You booked by the spot, but could book a party of up to 40. They provided everything. You'd go station to station, prepare each meal (everything was pre-cut; it was more portion and pour), drink wine, chat etc. The cost was about $5-6 per serving.
They changed their model after about 2 years. People didn't want to do the prepping. Now for about $4 per serving ($7 gluten free), monthly you can pick up pre-packaged freezer meals.
We used them after my husband got hit by a car. The food was decent, and it was easy.
But that much money to go to a party that only provides spices? That I still have to do all the grocery shopping for. No effing way, that's insane.
-
I just got an invite from a friend to attend a "meal prep party." Oh cool, I think, here's a chance to hang out with friends while doing a chore I hate, maybe share some good recipes, take advantage of bulk buying, etc.
Nope. It's a Wildtree party.
For a mere $60, you will make 10 "freezer meals," which seemed like an OK deal. And then I read on. You still have to supply your own main ingredients (meats, veggies, etc) and packaging and pretty much everything except some spices and sauces. "Simply purchase produce and proteins from your local store or farmers market, then whip up a quick and easy meal from fresh that your family can enjoy together, even when you're short on time!"
You're expected to show up with all of these items already prepped (chicken chopped, peppers diced, etc.) So you do the shitty part of meal prepping all alone. Then you schlep all of your prepared groceries over to the host's house to buy and mix-in individual meal-sized packages of sauces and spice mixes.
I hopped on the website to figure out what was actually included in the purchase. In one example, you get a shopping list, recipes, four kinds of seasoning, a small bottle of grapeseed oil, and nothing else. For $55.
I just can't even wrap my head around this one.
God damn, I'm scratching my head wondering what kind of people would this even appeal to? Not frugal people who are into meal prep for budget benefits. Not lazy people who want to eat healthier for low effort, because it's almost as much work as just doing everything yourself. Not people who just don't know anything about food/cooking and are trying to learn, because the shopping list seems to require some base knowledge already, since you're shopping for base ingredients and not things in boxes, and you have to do a lot of preparation work in advance.
Maybe people who want to do it for socializing?
It sounds like more work than doing it on your own: you schlepp the groceries home, then put them back into bags to take someplace else, then schlepp them home again?
-
I just got an invite from a friend to attend a "meal prep party." Oh cool, I think, here's a chance to hang out with friends while doing a chore I hate, maybe share some good recipes, take advantage of bulk buying, etc.
Nope. It's a Wildtree party.
For a mere $60, you will make 10 "freezer meals," which seemed like an OK deal. And then I read on. You still have to supply your own main ingredients (meats, veggies, etc) and packaging and pretty much everything except some spices and sauces. "Simply purchase produce and proteins from your local store or farmers market, then whip up a quick and easy meal from fresh that your family can enjoy together, even when you're short on time!"
You're expected to show up with all of these items already prepped (chicken chopped, peppers diced, etc.) So you do the shitty part of meal prepping all alone. Then you schlep all of your prepared groceries over to the host's house to buy and mix-in individual meal-sized packages of sauces and spice mixes.
I hopped on the website to figure out what was actually included in the purchase. In one example, you get a shopping list, recipes, four kinds of seasoning, a small bottle of grapeseed oil, and nothing else. For $55.
I just can't even wrap my head around this one.
God damn, I'm scratching my head wondering what kind of people would this even appeal to? Not frugal people who are into meal prep for budget benefits. Not lazy people who want to eat healthier for low effort, because it's almost as much work as just doing everything yourself. Not people who just don't know anything about food/cooking and are trying to learn, because the shopping list seems to require some base knowledge already, since you're shopping for base ingredients and not things in boxes, and you have to do a lot of preparation work in advance.
Maybe people who want to do it for socializing?
It sounds like more work than doing it on your own: you schlepp the groceries home, then put them back into bags to take someplace else, then schlepp them home again?
Yeah. This sounds like the worst party ever. I'd rather stay home alone chopping up soup veggies than go through all that.
-
I fell into Amway hole around 2012. I was new to the area. Someone greeted me while shopping at Walmart and told my face is very familiar and had some conversations. In short, he got my phone number, called me a few days after and told there is a side gig and if I wanted to work on it.
I remember I had only $300 in my account at that time. I said yes, he took me to some meeting that had people in suits. They had music, motivational talk...bla...bla...bla...I was brainwashed (or I was naive) and ended up signing up for it. After 2 months of horrifying experience, finally came out of it. They asked me to go and meet random people at Walmart and exchange phone numbers. Asked us to call those people on Sundays and convince them to attend meetings.
Not only that, they asked me to contact my friends & friends of friends circle and convince them. It was one of the worst mistakes of my life.
I never knew such crude and selfish people existed. I'm allergic to Amway since then.
-
Poking around our town Facebook page, I discovered there was a vendor fair coming up for the elementary school PTO. My initial thoughts were, "I don't need anything, but I wonder what local companies will be there." I should have known better...
-
@sparkytheop - I'm in the same group. Quite the sh*t Show!
What group is it? I want to join it!
One of my friends started posting about her weight loss progress. She was making great progress and her posts were interesting and encouraging. Then they started take on that weird MLM tone - lots of emojis; unnaturally formatted; language and tone that didn't really sound like her; calls to contact her in private message to learn more about her journey. She quit her job and became a "health coach." But she never mentioned an MLM. She started posting other people's Before And After photos and I finally was able to spot the tiny watermark for the weight loss MLM she's shilling for. It's just disappointing. I'm happy for her success, and I used to like her posts, but now I just want to hide her posts. I think that intentionally pretending you're not shilling for an MLM is the height of dishonesty. "Well, I know no one wants to buy into my MLM, so I'll pretend I'm not representing an MLM and then trick them into joining my MLM!"
This is pretty common, actually.
I do Beachbody (meaning, I use their products). I have their $99/year streaming service. I've done a few of their workouts start to finish. I think they are great and it's awesome that when my spouse is traveling, I can pull up yoga or weightlifting or whatever I feel like doing that day because I'm stuck with the kids.
So. Being that I started with 21 day fix in 2014, I know a lot of other beachbody people online and in real life. And I've seen the transition that many of them go through. The thing is - it's pretty awesome when you find something that works for you. For me, it was losing the 2nd baby weight when counting calories didn't work, and weight watchers didn't work, but finally - I found something! It's exciting, and you share it.
But then ... whomever you bought the workout program from is a "coach". And they make money when you buy something from them or are signed up under them. And then you have a "team" with several people, and you start having special workout challenges. I know so many of them now that I recognize the canned invites and notice that they never mention them by name - but "PM me for details!"
Some of these coaches do it for a living, meaning they are actually certified trainers and coaches, and it's a way to make a little more dough. Some of these people are just really nice people who want to help others get healthy - they found something that they liked and worked for them, and they are enthusiastic. If they can make a little dough, great, but it's not their primary goal. But for some they really want to make it their day job.
Thing is that transition can be really awkward. I have a good friend who has been into Beachbody for about a year now and she keeps asking me to move over to her team and ... I mean why? I'm happy to be encouraging and help out your new buddies with meal prep tips and my favorite workout recommendations. But I'm also fine over here paying my $99 a year fee for the online workouts. I can't drink the shakes anymore (did the first couple of years) - they disagree with my digestion.
-
If there are any podcast listeners here, there's a really great new podcast out called "The Dream." It delves into the history of MLMs in a really fascinating way. I'm learning a lot and gaining a new perspective on the whole phenomenon. The most recent episode is about the connections between mid-20th-century MLMs and the New Thought movement. Highly recommended listening!
-
I fell into Amway hole around 2012. I was new to the area. Someone greeted me while shopping at Walmart and told my face is very familiar and had some conversations. In short, he got my phone number, called me a few days after and told there is a side gig and if I wanted to work on it.
I remember I had only $300 in my account at that time. I said yes, he took me to some meeting that had people in suits. They had music, motivational talk...bla...bla...bla...I was brainwashed (or I was naive) and ended up signing up for it. After 2 months of horrifying experience, finally came out of it. They asked me to go and meet random people at Walmart and exchange phone numbers. Asked us to call those people on Sundays and convince them to attend meetings.
Not only that, they asked me to contact my friends & friends of friends circle and convince them. It was one of the worst mistakes of my life.
I never knew such crude and selfish people existed. I'm allergic to Amway since then.
Oh yeah, Amway people are awful. Husband and I got tricked into meeting another couple (friends of our friend) for what we thought was a coffee date with potential new friends. Instead, they spent 2 hours pitching Amway to us. We got out by promising to consider it, told them we weren’t interested when they called us later, and never heard from them again. Good riddance.
-
MLM..."Makes Life Miserable".
-
I fell into Amway hole around 2012. I was new to the area. Someone greeted me while shopping at Walmart and told my face is very familiar and had some conversations. In short, he got my phone number, called me a few days after and told there is a side gig and if I wanted to work on it.
I remember I had only $300 in my account at that time. I said yes, he took me to some meeting that had people in suits. They had music, motivational talk...bla...bla...bla...I was brainwashed (or I was naive) and ended up signing up for it. After 2 months of horrifying experience, finally came out of it. They asked me to go and meet random people at Walmart and exchange phone numbers. Asked us to call those people on Sundays and convince them to attend meetings.
Not only that, they asked me to contact my friends & friends of friends circle and convince them. It was one of the worst mistakes of my life.
I never knew such crude and selfish people existed. I'm allergic to Amway since then.
Oh yeah, Amway people are awful. Husband and I got tricked into meeting another couple (friends of our friend) for what we thought was a coffee date with potential new friends. Instead, they spent 2 hours pitching Amway to us. We got out by promising to consider it, told them we weren’t interested when they called us later, and never heard from them again. Good riddance.
I grew up in Amway land. It is truly awful how deceptive people can be in trying to trick you into hearing your sales pitch. My parents had it happen to them a couple times and even I suffered through a "let's meet for coffee" thing with a colleague early in my career.
-
MLM..."Makes Life Miserable".
I can't take credit for it, but last week I saw someone call it "Moms Lying to Moms". Truth...
-
@sparkytheop - I'm in the same group. Quite the sh*t Show!
What group is it? I want to join it!
There's two I'm in right now:
Sounds like MLM but OK
LuLaRoe Defective/Ripped/Torn Leggings and Clothes
The second one in particular is soap opera level drama. It's only a matter of time before LLR goes bankrupt...
-
Poking around our town Facebook page, I discovered there was a vendor fair coming up for the elementary school PTO. My initial thoughts were, "I don't need anything, but I wonder what local companies will be there." I should have known better...
I've seen this trend happening with several small town events. Went to see fireworks put on by the local fire department where they sell food to raise funds and sell table space for vendors. It used to be homemade crafts and art, now it's mostly MLM's. That was kinda depressing.
-
MLM..."Makes Life Miserable".
I can't take credit for it, but last week I saw someone call it "Moms Lying to Moms". Truth...
also "Most Lose Money"
-
I've wasted an enormous amount of time on these Facebook groups since this morning, because the trainwreck that is MLM posts is too great to look away from.
But it all reminded me of an MLM invite I received from a friend I went to Grad School with. I wanted to go back and look at it, because I couldn't remember what the product was.
It was better than I remembered. I received it after my very first tax season as a business owner. So keep in mind that at the point I received this message, I was building an accounting firm:
Hey NAME...did you survive tax season?! That's a huge accomplishment if you did! So now that tax season is semi-over, I wanted to ask you if you ever keep your options open for making additional income? I have a home based business and you know as an accountant what a huge tax writeoff you can have from that type of business. I'd love to share with you a short video clip or phone recording if you are open to at least hearing about it!
Ok, so... Let's pause here for a moment. I'm just a CPA specializing in tax, but if my MLM is a huge tax write off, that means I'm losing money, right? Right???
I told her thanks and I'd look at her video. God knows why. But that means I still have the link!!
So glad you survived and I bet you're relieved. Here is the video you can check out. [Link was for VISI recruitment video]. I love having that Plan B income because I know at my day job that I'm only making money if I'm working so having residual income is the best thing ever. I love waking up and having made money in the middle of the night 😉
This lady has an MBA and was in law school when I met her. Her "day job" at the time was as an accountant.
After watching the video, I had no idea what VISI was. The link doesn't lead to the same video anymore (which is a shame, because I recall that the original video was gold), but it mostly just talked about living your best life. Now it goes to a video about how awesome Scandinavia is and how VISI originates from them and that's how you know it's awesome. It at least clues you in that it's nutritional and beauty products. Apparently made from a magic Scandinavian berry.
The whole pitch still gets a huge WTF from me. Is there something about me that led her to believe I wanted to sell magic berries?
-
Never heard of VISI.
Looks like protein powders and health junk- Beachbody and Body by Vi clone.
-
Maybe my biggest annoyance at MLMs is the misuse of the term "residual income". THAT DOESN'T MEAN WHAT YOU THINK IT MEANS. If you have ongoing work for it, it's not residual income. If it's earned income, it's not residual.
-
Maybe my biggest annoyance at MLMs is the misuse of the term "residual income". THAT DOESN'T MEAN WHAT YOU THINK IT MEANS. If you have ongoing work for it, it's not residual income. If it's earned income, it's not residual.
Ah ha yes! I know a lot of the perceived benefit is that you can make money while working at home, in your PJs. And it's easier than having your own business. (My running coach also owns a gym... that's hard work!)
I think for some of them, they use residual because once you sign one person up, as long as they keep buying whatever, you are making money.
(The latest thing on my FB feed is skincare... Rodan and Fields very popular in the over-40 set).
I have an actual day job that makes a decent salary, so I can't imagine why I'd want to spend my "free" time selling stuff.
-
Uuuugh. Now an old friend (as always, a mom in her late 30s) is shilling for Tastefully Simple. A quick look at the website offers a "Fix it Fast 10 Meal Kit", which comprises a few bottles and jars of spice blends and sauces and some recipes for $70.
Yeah, no. No wonder everyone complains about being broke. They're all buying this nonsense from each other and giving the money right back to the Ponzi scheme parent company.
-
My hubs best friend (since he was 8) and his wife have gotten into Thrive. Ugh. I just want to come over and cuddle with the new baby and chill over pizza. Every time we come over it's a way to get us to buy their product. :(
Avoiding Facebook stuff with them too, as it's all, "Thrive was my missing piece."
Can't. do. it.
-
I've found a podcast...! It's still pretty new (only five episodes, not sure how many there will be). I'm continually fascinated by MLM train wrecks and just can't look away.
https://www.stitcher.com/podcast/stitcher/the-dream
-
The latest!
You know all I've been struggling with my weight. Digestive problems, bloating, none of the exercising and eating healthy did anything. At my wit's end, and about to go see an endocrinologist! Then I found something. I swapped out my coffee - and I've lost 10 lbs! PM me with questions.
Magic coffee. Okay.
This is a Beachbody coach. I don't see where BB is getting into coffee? Sigh.
-
I've found a podcast...! It's still pretty new (only five episodes, not sure how many there will be). I'm continually fascinated by MLM train wrecks and just can't look away.
https://www.stitcher.com/podcast/stitcher/the-dream
Oh man, the second episode is set in my husband's hometown. There are only one middle school and high school so given the time frame, he, his sister, or cousins must have attended school with the host or her aunt (no surnames are given). This is weird.
-
I've found a podcast...! It's still pretty new (only five episodes, not sure how many there will be). I'm continually fascinated by MLM train wrecks and just can't look away.
https://www.stitcher.com/podcast/stitcher/the-dream
Oh man, the second episode is set in my husband's hometown. There are only one middle school and high school so given the time frame, he, his sister, or cousins must have attended school with the host or her aunt (no surnames are given). This is weird.
Her grandma gives her surname in one of the episodes, and I think the great-grandma's name is given too. Depending on if you have a knows-everyone relative, you might be able to figure it out.
It's been a great podcast, I just wish it wasn't only available through Stitcher.
-
This podcast is great, and it isn’t only available through stitcher. I listen to it via apple podcasts. It is just ad-free on stitcher.
-
This podcast is great, and it isn’t only available through stitcher. I listen to it via apple podcasts. It is just ad-free on stitcher.
Yeah, no problems listening to it on Apple Podcasts (other than the annoying ads for Stitcher).
-
Ah, that'd be the issue. I refuse to download any Apple software after I had to do a complete clean install of my OS because "uninstalling" iTunes/Quicktime didn't actually uninstall all the associated software. That was in 2009 and I've never looked back.
Still wish it were on Google Play, but I'm fine with Stitcher to avoid Apple.
-
And now a friend is hawking something called Esprita. Yeah, I’m not paying $50 per 30-day supply of vitamin/herbal supplement even if it does make me “live my legendary life.”
-
The Dream podcast is fantastic. In the latest episode they get into a little of the market saturation issues of MLMs, siting how many Mary Kay consuls there are versus Walgreens and CVSs. I’ve always wondered why people don’t see that when they sign up for an MLM. You’re friends already know at least three other “friends” selling the same thing!!! Duh.
-
The Dream podcast is fantastic. In the latest episode they get into a little of the market saturation issues of MLMs, siting how many Mary Kay consuls there are versus Walgreens and CVSs. I’ve always wondered why people don’t see that when they sign up for an MLM. You’re friends already know at least three other “friends” selling the same thing!!! Duh.
Some of them don't know it.
In the Beachbody world (apparently in CA, they are everywhere!!) - I feel like the saturation has happened over the last several years.
I've followed a few people who were in early-ish. Some were business owners or had day jobs. They ended up being able to sell their businesses and quit their day jobs. One of them quit a couple of years ago (after she closed down her business), and has virtually disappeared. But is hawking something else now. She was honest about the changes that had happened AND the saturation and she just couldn't keep her income up. Too much competition, and too many requirements to get "new" customers every month. Then BB told everyone they had to be exclusive.
The exclusive part caused a couple of local people that I know to quit the business. One was working on a second MLM which was a wine club (it was a terrible idea. While this particular person was also a cafe owner, so had some overlap with wine - the wine club was selling wines from Aus and NZ and um... we live in wine country!!)
That particular person ended up BACK in the BB business, not sure how successful. Some folks that I know are pretty successful at it, but generally they are business owners who have access to lots of new customers AND their businesses are health related in the first place.
anyway, it took some googling and there are 340,000 beachbody coaches. That's... a lot.
-
The Dream podcast is fantastic. In the latest episode they get into a little of the market saturation issues of MLMs, siting how many Mary Kay consuls there are versus Walgreens and CVSs. I’ve always wondered why people don’t see that when they sign up for an MLM. You’re friends already know at least three other “friends” selling the same thing!!! Duh.
Some of them don't know it.
In the Beachbody world (apparently in CA, they are everywhere!!) - I feel like the saturation has happened over the last several years.
I've followed a few people who were in early-ish. Some were business owners or had day jobs. They ended up being able to sell their businesses and quit their day jobs. One of them quit a couple of years ago (after she closed down her business), and has virtually disappeared. But is hawking something else now. She was honest about the changes that had happened AND the saturation and she just couldn't keep her income up. Too much competition, and too many requirements to get "new" customers every month. Then BB told everyone they had to be exclusive.
The exclusive part caused a couple of local people that I know to quit the business. One was working on a second MLM which was a wine club (it was a terrible idea. While this particular person was also a cafe owner, so had some overlap with wine - the wine club was selling wines from Aus and NZ and um... we live in wine country!!)
That particular person ended up BACK in the BB business, not sure how successful. Some folks that I know are pretty successful at it, but generally they are business owners who have access to lots of new customers AND their businesses are health related in the first place.
anyway, it took some googling and there are 340,000 beachbody coaches. That's... a lot.
That's like one BB coach for every 1000 Americans...talk about a saturated market.
-
I saw this and feel like it is extremely relevant....
How to Get a Friend Out of an MLM (https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/43e573/how-to-get-a-friend-out-of-an-mlm-herbalife-amway-younique-)
-
Is there anyone else who doesn't run into MLM stuff really ever? I have seen about 5 cars with ads on, and once someone gave me a card after we chatted at a playground. Is it because I'm not on Facebook? The stats say so many Americans are involved, I'm not sure how I've avoided them. Speculation?
-
Is there anyone else who doesn't run into MLM stuff really ever? I have seen about 5 cars with ads on, and once someone gave me a card after we chatted at a playground. Is it because I'm not on Facebook? The stats say so many Americans are involved, I'm not sure how I've avoided them. Speculation?
First is in who you know. Only 1 friend and a family member (whom refused to pitch to family thank goodness!) of mine has ever got involved with that crap, and beyond that, never dealt with it.
Second, where you go, (ie facebook, certain social events, etc) if you don't hit those a lot, your probably missing out on comedy gold and annoying sales pitches. (Personally the lack of pitches makes up for lack of comedy but to each their own!)
Third, there is some luck involved, as there are still a few whom go out in the community and pick a random sucker, but most of that is now done via facebook and the like so your probably likely avoid it 99.9% of the time.
Anyone wanna buy some Amway? (Just kidding!)
-
The LuLaRoe world exposed- Part one-
http://soundslikemlm.libsyn.com/roberta-belvins-interview (http://soundslikemlm.libsyn.com/roberta-belvins-interview)
And even more sad- part two-
http://soundslikemlm.libsyn.com/courtney-hardwood (http://soundslikemlm.libsyn.com/courtney-hardwood)
-
Is there anyone else who doesn't run into MLM stuff really ever? I have seen about 5 cars with ads on, and once someone gave me a card after we chatted at a playground. Is it because I'm not on Facebook? The stats say so many Americans are involved, I'm not sure how I've avoided them. Speculation?
I'm a military spouse, and military spouse employment (or UNemployment) is a huge issue due to all the moving. Even more so overseas (which I am). So it makes a lot of sense that MLMs are very attractive to military spouses. You can take your "business" with you, work your own hours, and not have the pain and frustration of looking for and maybe not finding a job at each new location.
So I think I probably see even more of these than the average Joe. Just got invited to a Brunch and Beauty (some natural make up and skin care MLM), and on any given day my FB fee probably has 2-3 MLM posts, and I keep a pretty small friends list. I know one person who as far as I can tell, has been very successful. (Though it's hard to say for sure as part of the business is trumpeting how successful you are, whether it's true or not.) She got in very early on one I had never heard of. (Some bracelet/charm thing called Keep.) That was several years ago and I've still never seen anyone else talking about this company, so it seems like it's not as saturated. (Of course, that could be that no one buys, but it doesn't seem like she gets any fewer responses than any other MLM posts, and in fact probably more.) So of the dozens and dozens in my semi-immediate circle, that's one seeming success story.
-
My friend's mother is selling some kind of diet meal replacement shakes. She tried to pitch it to me last time I saw her, which was a strange experience. I'm a huge foodie and pretty healthy so diet shakes hold 0 appeal to me even if they weren't an MLM.
-
I've been listening to The Dream podcast. It's really well done. The way they trace the evolution of MLMs from Prosperity Gospel preachers like Norman Vincent Peale and pop psychology is fascinating. I mentioned earlier in this thread that I'm acquainted with a couple who are quite high up the pyramid in a nutrition supplement MLM. Looking through their social media posts, I can definitely see how all those lines of thought tie together. There is some dark stuff hidden underneath all those cheerful Insta selfies.
-
I've been listening to that, too! Fascinating! Great stuff.
-
Wasn't there a big trend about a generation ago where MLM companies like Scamway would require their devotees to buy a "book of the month" which was invariably some bullshit rah-rah artist telling them how everything will be pie in the sky by and by if they just believe and pray hard enough? Some of the authors of those books were actually MLM honchos, or else people who owed their "best-selling author" status to the MLM. In exchange for the push they'd come and speak at MLM events.
-
Wasn't there a big trend about a generation ago where MLM companies like Scamway would require their devotees to buy a "book of the month" which was invariably some bullshit rah-rah artist telling them how everything will be pie in the sky by and by if they just believe and pray hard enough? Some of the authors of those books were actually MLM honchos, or else people who owed their "best-selling author" status to the MLM. In exchange for the push they'd come and speak at MLM events.
Robert Kiyosaki owes much of his early success to being picked up by Scamway.
Scamway also did create a bunch of monthly tapes that their minions were forced to pay for and listen to, but there was some internal scam revealed when it became clear that some uplines were generating much of their profit from selling their "knowledge" to their poor downlines, and the success wasn't from the actual products. Same for the many seminars they insisted the downlines attended; much of the ticket cost went straight into the uplines pocket.
These trends don't seem to stop though, Rachel Hollis is the latest MLM God, with her book Girl Wash Your Face. She's the guest speaker at many of the MLM conventions right now.
-
A heartbreaking victim of MLMs has been flying beneath my radar for about twenty years. This thread, along with the "The Dream" podcast, has made me see her story in a new light...
It's an interesting and very sad story, and it makes me furious at MLMs.
I first met her while I was in high school. She and her husband hung out at the rockclimbing gym where I worked after school, and they befriended me. They were in their midtwenties, hip, fun, cool people and they took me rockclimbing sometimes. I also had dinner at their place occasionally. I really looked up to them.
I kept in touch a little bit throughout my post-high school, post-college and beyond life. They never had kids. She was a super triathlete, always training for Ironman races and looking for official sponsorship. I also noticed that she was incredibly self promotional. She sent me her newsletter every week, and I followed it in a living vicariously sort of way.
She sold every MLM I'd ever heard of. Called me up now and again to ask how I was doing and see if I was interested in any of her MLMs. I live in Hawaii, mind you, and she was in Colorado. Her newsletter was full of Dave Ramsey and her "bizes"--that's how she referred to them.
About two years ago the newsletter mentioned she had gotten divorced. Last year she was pregnant. Just had a baby girl. She's 45. Then a newsletter that she's starting over on Dave Ramsey baby step #1 but this time it's going to work because of all her bizes.
OMG. The whole thing started to make sense. MLMs have completely bankrupted this woman and her husband couldn't take it anymore.
Soul sucking scams. Tragic.
-
I fell into Amway hole around 2012. I was new to the area. Someone greeted me while shopping at Walmart and told my face is very familiar and had some conversations. In short, he got my phone number, called me a few days after and told there is a side gig and if I wanted to work on it.
I remember I had only $300 in my account at that time. I said yes, he took me to some meeting that had people in suits. They had music, motivational talk...bla...bla...bla...I was brainwashed (or I was naive) and ended up signing up for it. After 2 months of horrifying experience, finally came out of it. They asked me to go and meet random people at Walmart and exchange phone numbers. Asked us to call those people on Sundays and convince them to attend meetings.
Not only that, they asked me to contact my friends & friends of friends circle and convince them. It was one of the worst mistakes of my life.
I never knew such crude and selfish people existed. I'm allergic to Amway since then.
Oh yeah, Amway people are awful. Husband and I got tricked into meeting another couple (friends of our friend) for what we thought was a coffee date with potential new friends. Instead, they spent 2 hours pitching Amway to us. We got out by promising to consider it, told them we weren’t interested when they called us later, and never heard from them again. Good riddance.
I grew up in Amway land. It is truly awful how deceptive people can be in trying to trick you into hearing your sales pitch. My parents had it happen to them a couple times and even I suffered through a "let's meet for coffee" thing with a colleague early in my career.
Isn't there some overlap between the Amway leadership people and part of the political establishment in the USA? Now there is a bad situation...
-
I fell into Amway hole around 2012. I was new to the area. Someone greeted me while shopping at Walmart and told my face is very familiar and had some conversations. In short, he got my phone number, called me a few days after and told there is a side gig and if I wanted to work on it.
I remember I had only $300 in my account at that time. I said yes, he took me to some meeting that had people in suits. They had music, motivational talk...bla...bla...bla...I was brainwashed (or I was naive) and ended up signing up for it. After 2 months of horrifying experience, finally came out of it. They asked me to go and meet random people at Walmart and exchange phone numbers. Asked us to call those people on Sundays and convince them to attend meetings.
Not only that, they asked me to contact my friends & friends of friends circle and convince them. It was one of the worst mistakes of my life.
I never knew such crude and selfish people existed. I'm allergic to Amway since then.
Oh yeah, Amway people are awful. Husband and I got tricked into meeting another couple (friends of our friend) for what we thought was a coffee date with potential new friends. Instead, they spent 2 hours pitching Amway to us. We got out by promising to consider it, told them we weren’t interested when they called us later, and never heard from them again. Good riddance.
I grew up in Amway land. It is truly awful how deceptive people can be in trying to trick you into hearing your sales pitch. My parents had it happen to them a couple times and even I suffered through a "let's meet for coffee" thing with a colleague early in my career.
Isn't there some overlap between the Amway leadership people and part of the political establishment in the USA? Now there is a bad situation...
Yep. Betsy DeVos is the US Secretary of Education despite not having attended public schools, not having any background in education, not having sent her children to public schools, and continually undermining public education in her home state by undermining teacher’s unions and shilling for corporate charter schools to line her own pocketbook. As a Michigander, I apologize for the fact that she’s been inflicted on the rest of the country.
-
Yep. Betsy DeVos is the US Secretary of Education despite not having attended public schools, not having any background in education, not having sent her children to public schools, and continually undermining public education in her home state by undermining teacher’s unions and shilling for corporate charter schools to line her own pocketbook. As a Michigander, I apologize for the fact that she’s been inflicted on the rest of the country.
At the risk of pulling this thread off topic, I know there was a lot of hoopla when she was first appointed, but other than ending Common Core, I haven't heard much lately from/about from the Dept. of Ed. Has there been anything coming out of DC on that front?
-
Yep. Betsy DeVos is the US Secretary of Education despite not having attended public schools, not having any background in education, not having sent her children to public schools, and continually undermining public education in her home state by undermining teacher’s unions and shilling for corporate charter schools to line her own pocketbook. As a Michigander, I apologize for the fact that she’s been inflicted on the rest of the country.
At the risk of pulling this thread off topic, I know there was a lot of hoopla when she was first appointed, but other than ending Common Core, I haven't heard much lately from/about from the Dept. of Ed. Has there been anything coming out of DC on that front?
Not sure how the department of ed can end Common Core since it was never a federal initiative...
States all have the ability to adopt their own standards. (Most have 'adapted' Common Core.)
-
Yep. Betsy DeVos is the US Secretary of Education despite not having attended public schools, not having any background in education, not having sent her children to public schools, and continually undermining public education in her home state by undermining teacher’s unions and shilling for corporate charter schools to line her own pocketbook. As a Michigander, I apologize for the fact that she’s been inflicted on the rest of the country.
At the risk of pulling this thread off topic, I know there was a lot of hoopla when she was first appointed, but other than ending Common Core, I haven't heard much lately from/about from the Dept. of Ed. Has there been anything coming out of DC on that front?
The DeVos family also are major investors in SoFi. Betsy has been working to relax lending standards for student loans, ease restrictions on for-profit colleges (more loans) and pull back promises of loan forgiveness. Basically, she would like all students to graduate with crippling amounts of debt, which can then be re-financed with SoFi.
-
MLM top level ethics and politicians. There is a fine combination.
-
One of the most recent episodes of The Dream (#7) dove into exactly that issue. When Amway was under investigation by the FTC, the two co-founders Richard DeVos and Jay Van Andel were finance chair of the RNC and chair of the US Chamber of Commerce, respectively. Both were also personal friends of then-president Gerald Ford, as they were all from Grand Rapids, MI, and had a private meeting with Ford at the White House in the midst of the FTC investigation.
Betsy DeVos is Richard Devos' daughter-in-law, married to his son Dick DeVos, who was a former chairman of Amway. Current chairman is Steve Van Andel (son of Jay), and current president is Doug DeVos, brother of Dick and BIL to Betsy.
-
MLM top level ethics and politicians. There is a fine combination.
It seems to me a natural fit: politicians are such a corrupt, venial, and self-serving lot that other kinds of financial predators fit right in.
My fellow Yankistani voters seem to like it this way. Because apparently it's an unwritten rule that you have to vote for either the right-wing wackos or the left-wing wackos, a politician who's privileged enough and who is plugged in with a major party clique, or who can tap into the most vile and turpitudinous aspects of the voting public, can generally expect to get elected.
-
Yep. Betsy DeVos is the US Secretary of Education despite not having attended public schools, not having any background in education, not having sent her children to public schools, and continually undermining public education in her home state by undermining teacher’s unions and shilling for corporate charter schools to line her own pocketbook. As a Michigander, I apologize for the fact that she’s been inflicted on the rest of the country.
At the risk of pulling this thread off topic, I know there was a lot of hoopla when she was first appointed, but other than ending Common Core, I haven't heard much lately from/about from the Dept. of Ed. Has there been anything coming out of DC on that front?
Not sure how the department of ed can end Common Core since it was never a federal initiative...
States all have the ability to adopt their own standards. (Most have 'adapted' Common Core.)
Well, it was a "hey, adopt Common Core and we'll give you money" sort of deal, as I understand it. Aaaanyway, back to the topic at hand...
-
Yep. Betsy DeVos is the US Secretary of Education despite not having attended public schools, not having any background in education, not having sent her children to public schools, and continually undermining public education in her home state by undermining teacher’s unions and shilling for corporate charter schools to line her own pocketbook. As a Michigander, I apologize for the fact that she’s been inflicted on the rest of the country.
At the risk of pulling this thread off topic, I know there was a lot of hoopla when she was first appointed, but other than ending Common Core, I haven't heard much lately from/about from the Dept. of Ed. Has there been anything coming out of DC on that front?
Not sure how the department of ed can end Common Core since it was never a federal initiative...
States all have the ability to adopt their own standards. (Most have 'adapted' Common Core.)
Well, it was a "hey, adopt Common Core and we'll give you money" sort of deal, as I understand it. Aaaanyway, back to the topic at hand...
Yeah, and then they all "got rid of" Common Core (while actually keeping it, but rebranding it. Hence adapting, no longer adopting.)
-
The lady who runs "mommygyver" and spent a lot of effort showing Lularoe for what it is has been in a long legal fight (they are trying to get her sources for the information she has been given, and, as a journalist, she's fighting it). You can still read at least some of her posts on LLR on her site, but it's not as easy to get to as it was before.
https://www.mommygyver.com/mommyblog-1/category/LuLaRoe/page/8 I linked to the older posts so you can work your way through the timeline if interested.
-
Yep. Betsy DeVos is the US Secretary of Education despite not having attended public schools, not having any background in education, not having sent her children to public schools, and continually undermining public education in her home state by undermining teacher’s unions and shilling for corporate charter schools to line her own pocketbook. As a Michigander, I apologize for the fact that she’s been inflicted on the rest of the country.
At the risk of pulling this thread off topic, I know there was a lot of hoopla when she was first appointed, but other than ending Common Core, I haven't heard much lately from/about from the Dept. of Ed. Has there been anything coming out of DC on that front?
Not sure how the department of ed can end Common Core since it was never a federal initiative...
States all have the ability to adopt their own standards. (Most have 'adapted' Common Core.)
Well, it was a "hey, adopt Common Core and we'll give you money" sort of deal, as I understand it. Aaaanyway, back to the topic at hand...
I'm going to stay off topic for just a minute to say that as much shit as people talked about it, my kid is in Kindergarten and I love the Common Core worksheets that he brings home, especially the math worksheets. I think a big part of the problem was the implementation. You can't spend 5 years teaching kids one method and then expect that the next year everyone will magically know how to use the "new" method. It should have been introduced in Kindergarten one year, first grade the next, then second grade, etc. so that the kids get the basis of it. I suspect that states that didn't really want to adopt CC did a piss-poor job of implementing the change so that they could then go back and say "Hey, this is crap. See how bad our standardized test scores are now."
-
Yep. Betsy DeVos is the US Secretary of Education despite not having attended public schools, not having any background in education, not having sent her children to public schools, and continually undermining public education in her home state by undermining teacher’s unions and shilling for corporate charter schools to line her own pocketbook. As a Michigander, I apologize for the fact that she’s been inflicted on the rest of the country.
At the risk of pulling this thread off topic, I know there was a lot of hoopla when she was first appointed, but other than ending Common Core, I haven't heard much lately from/about from the Dept. of Ed. Has there been anything coming out of DC on that front?
Not sure how the department of ed can end Common Core since it was never a federal initiative...
States all have the ability to adopt their own standards. (Most have 'adapted' Common Core.)
Well, it was a "hey, adopt Common Core and we'll give you money" sort of deal, as I understand it. Aaaanyway, back to the topic at hand...
I'm going to stay off topic for just a minute to say that as much shit as people talked about it, my kid is in Kindergarten and I love the Common Core worksheets that he brings home, especially the math worksheets. I think a big part of the problem was the implementation. You can't spend 5 years teaching kids one method and then expect that the next year everyone will magically know how to use the "new" method. It should have been introduced in Kindergarten one year, first grade the next, then second grade, etc. so that the kids get the basis of it. I suspect that states that didn't really want to adopt CC did a piss-poor job of implementing the change so that they could then go back and say "Hey, this is crap. See how bad our standardized test scores are now."
We can start a new thread if you want, but the biggest issue most people have with Common Core isn't actually the standards, but curriculum that was designed to meet the standards; which is an entirely separate thing and dozens and dozens of curriculums exist, and none of them were officially put out by the NGA that put out CC. There is almost nothing in Common Core math that approaches methods of how it has to be taught. (In fact, as far as multiplication goes- standard algorithm is the only one that officially has to be taught, but other methods, like partial products can help support the understanding required in other standards.)
As for MLMs- I'm shockingly not seeing a lot of them on my facebook lately. I think people gave up on me.
-
Is there anyone else who doesn't run into MLM stuff really ever? I have seen about 5 cars with ads on, and once someone gave me a card after we chatted at a playground. Is it because I'm not on Facebook? The stats say so many Americans are involved, I'm not sure how I've avoided them. Speculation?
I think class background matters. Exactly one of my college-educated friends has made a spiel for a MLM to me, but probably 1/3-1/2 of my high school-educated friends and family are involved.
-
Is there anyone else who doesn't run into MLM stuff really ever? I have seen about 5 cars with ads on, and once someone gave me a card after we chatted at a playground. Is it because I'm not on Facebook? The stats say so many Americans are involved, I'm not sure how I've avoided them. Speculation?
I think class background matters. Exactly one of my college-educated friends has made a spiel for a MLM to me, but probably 1/3-1/2 of my high school-educated friends and family are involved.
Sadly, this doesn't work for me. I have a friend with a PhD in medicinal chemistry hawking essential oils.
And tons of friends with college degrees selling overpriced mascara. And lots and lots of friends selling shakes of various sorts.
-
Is there anyone else who doesn't run into MLM stuff really ever? I have seen about 5 cars with ads on, and once someone gave me a card after we chatted at a playground. Is it because I'm not on Facebook? The stats say so many Americans are involved, I'm not sure how I've avoided them. Speculation?
I think class background matters. Exactly one of my college-educated friends has made a spiel for a MLM to me, but probably 1/3-1/2 of my high school-educated friends and family are involved.
I agree. I have a few people on FB who sell various make up products. A few of them have straight up said that they only sell so that they can buy at wholesale prices. I don't know how well that's working out for them. I'm a little afraid that another one is being sucked into something that's going to be really bad for her. She's the classic target. She and her son's dad can't afford for her to work and pay daycare, so she stays home. She sees this as a way for her to contribute to the household. I also thinks she sees it as a way that she can justify getting out of the house and using their one car in the evenings/weekends and have actual adult conversations. I've posted a few things about how MLMs are scams, but haven't actually tagger her in anything. Just hoping she reads the articles.
-
Yep. Betsy DeVos is the US Secretary of Education despite not having attended public schools, not having any background in education, not having sent her children to public schools, and continually undermining public education in her home state by undermining teacher’s unions and shilling for corporate charter schools to line her own pocketbook. As a Michigander, I apologize for the fact that she’s been inflicted on the rest of the country.
At the risk of pulling this thread off topic, I know there was a lot of hoopla when she was first appointed, but other than ending Common Core, I haven't heard much lately from/about from the Dept. of Ed. Has there been anything coming out of DC on that front?
Not sure how the department of ed can end Common Core since it was never a federal initiative...
States all have the ability to adopt their own standards. (Most have 'adapted' Common Core.)
Well, it was a "hey, adopt Common Core and we'll give you money" sort of deal, as I understand it. Aaaanyway, back to the topic at hand...
I'm going to stay off topic for just a minute to say that as much shit as people talked about it, my kid is in Kindergarten and I love the Common Core worksheets that he brings home, especially the math worksheets. I think a big part of the problem was the implementation. You can't spend 5 years teaching kids one method and then expect that the next year everyone will magically know how to use the "new" method. It should have been introduced in Kindergarten one year, first grade the next, then second grade, etc. so that the kids get the basis of it. I suspect that states that didn't really want to adopt CC did a piss-poor job of implementing the change so that they could then go back and say "Hey, this is crap. See how bad our standardized test scores are now."
We can start a new thread if you want, but the biggest issue most people have with Common Core isn't actually the standards, but curriculum that was designed to meet the standards; which is an entirely separate thing and dozens and dozens of curriculums exist, and none of them were officially put out by the NGA that put out CC. There is almost nothing in Common Core math that approaches methods of how it has to be taught. (In fact, as far as multiplication goes- standard algorithm is the only one that officially has to be taught, but other methods, like partial products can help support the understanding required in other standards.)
As for MLMs- I'm shockingly not seeing a lot of them on my facebook lately. I think people gave up on me.
https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/off-topic/so-common-core/ (https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/off-topic/so-common-core/)
-
Is there anyone else who doesn't run into MLM stuff really ever? I have seen about 5 cars with ads on, and once someone gave me a card after we chatted at a playground. Is it because I'm not on Facebook? The stats say so many Americans are involved, I'm not sure how I've avoided them. Speculation?
I think class background matters. Exactly one of my college-educated friends has made a spiel for a MLM to me, but probably 1/3-1/2 of my high school-educated friends and family are involved.
I agree. I have a few people on FB who sell various make up products. A few of them have straight up said that they only sell so that they can buy at wholesale prices. I don't know how well that's working out for them. I'm a little afraid that another one is being sucked into something that's going to be really bad for her. She's the classic target. She and her son's dad can't afford for her to work and pay daycare, so she stays home. She sees this as a way for her to contribute to the household. I also thinks she sees it as a way that she can justify getting out of the house and using their one car in the evenings/weekends and have actual adult conversations. I've posted a few things about how MLMs are scams, but haven't actually tagger her in anything. Just hoping she reads the articles.
"wholesale"
:(
-
Is there anyone else who doesn't run into MLM stuff really ever? I have seen about 5 cars with ads on, and once someone gave me a card after we chatted at a playground. Is it because I'm not on Facebook? The stats say so many Americans are involved, I'm not sure how I've avoided them. Speculation?
I think class background matters. Exactly one of my college-educated friends has made a spiel for a MLM to me, but probably 1/3-1/2 of my high school-educated friends and family are involved.
I agree. I have a few people on FB who sell various make up products. A few of them have straight up said that they only sell so that they can buy at wholesale prices. I don't know how well that's working out for them. I'm a little afraid that another one is being sucked into something that's going to be really bad for her. She's the classic target. She and her son's dad can't afford for her to work and pay daycare, so she stays home. She sees this as a way for her to contribute to the household. I also thinks she sees it as a way that she can justify getting out of the house and using their one car in the evenings/weekends and have actual adult conversations. I've posted a few things about how MLMs are scams, but haven't actually tagger her in anything. Just hoping she reads the articles.
"wholesale"
:(
Yeah, I know.
I wear makeup maybe three times a year (which is probably what saves me from a lot of these pitches) so I don't really know a whole lot about it other than what I've read and that's that it's a pretty good product, but expensive.
-
Is there anyone else who doesn't run into MLM stuff really ever? I have seen about 5 cars with ads on, and once someone gave me a card after we chatted at a playground. Is it because I'm not on Facebook? The stats say so many Americans are involved, I'm not sure how I've avoided them. Speculation?
I think class background matters. Exactly one of my college-educated friends has made a spiel for a MLM to me, but probably 1/3-1/2 of my high school-educated friends and family are involved.
I agree. I have a few people on FB who sell various make up products. A few of them have straight up said that they only sell so that they can buy at wholesale prices. I don't know how well that's working out for them. I'm a little afraid that another one is being sucked into something that's going to be really bad for her. She's the classic target. She and her son's dad can't afford for her to work and pay daycare, so she stays home. She sees this as a way for her to contribute to the household. I also thinks she sees it as a way that she can justify getting out of the house and using their one car in the evenings/weekends and have actual adult conversations. I've posted a few things about how MLMs are scams, but haven't actually tagger her in anything. Just hoping she reads the articles.
"wholesale"
:(
It could make sense for someone who "does makeup" as a significant side gig. I'm thinking about people who own boutiques, who sell makeup services to the Wedding Industrial Complex, who want a reason to up-charge because the mainstream stuff from a beauty supply company doesn't make the bride feel special enough.
-
Is there anyone else who doesn't run into MLM stuff really ever? I have seen about 5 cars with ads on, and once someone gave me a card after we chatted at a playground. Is it because I'm not on Facebook? The stats say so many Americans are involved, I'm not sure how I've avoided them. Speculation?
I think class background matters. Exactly one of my college-educated friends has made a spiel for a MLM to me, but probably 1/3-1/2 of my high school-educated friends and family are involved.
I agree. I have a few people on FB who sell various make up products. A few of them have straight up said that they only sell so that they can buy at wholesale prices. I don't know how well that's working out for them. I'm a little afraid that another one is being sucked into something that's going to be really bad for her. She's the classic target. She and her son's dad can't afford for her to work and pay daycare, so she stays home. She sees this as a way for her to contribute to the household. I also thinks she sees it as a way that she can justify getting out of the house and using their one car in the evenings/weekends and have actual adult conversations. I've posted a few things about how MLMs are scams, but haven't actually tagger her in anything. Just hoping she reads the articles.
"wholesale"
:(
It could make sense for someone who "does makeup" as a significant side gig. I'm thinking about people who own boutiques, who sell makeup services to the Wedding Industrial Complex, who want a reason to up-charge because the mainstream stuff from a beauty supply company doesn't make the bride feel special enough.
I was just pointing out that consultants don't buy from MLMs at "wholesale" prices. Consultants are the main customers. The profit is made by the company when they sell to the consultant.
-
Is there anyone else who doesn't run into MLM stuff really ever? I have seen about 5 cars with ads on, and once someone gave me a card after we chatted at a playground. Is it because I'm not on Facebook? The stats say so many Americans are involved, I'm not sure how I've avoided them. Speculation?
I think class background matters. Exactly one of my college-educated friends has made a spiel for a MLM to me, but probably 1/3-1/2 of my high school-educated friends and family are involved.
I agree. I have a few people on FB who sell various make up products. A few of them have straight up said that they only sell so that they can buy at wholesale prices. I don't know how well that's working out for them. I'm a little afraid that another one is being sucked into something that's going to be really bad for her. She's the classic target. She and her son's dad can't afford for her to work and pay daycare, so she stays home. She sees this as a way for her to contribute to the household. I also thinks she sees it as a way that she can justify getting out of the house and using their one car in the evenings/weekends and have actual adult conversations. I've posted a few things about how MLMs are scams, but haven't actually tagger her in anything. Just hoping she reads the articles.
"wholesale"
:(
It could make sense for someone who "does makeup" as a significant side gig. I'm thinking about people who own boutiques, who sell makeup services to the Wedding Industrial Complex, who want a reason to up-charge because the mainstream stuff from a beauty supply company doesn't make the bride feel special enough.
I was just pointing out that consultants don't buy from MLMs at "wholesale" prices. Consultants are the main customers. The profit is made by the company when they sell to the consultant.
You have a point. Maybe "buying at a discount" is a better term. Though, I might argue that pretty much any business that buys a product with a profit margin of less than 100% is also not paying "wholesale."
-
Is there anyone else who doesn't run into MLM stuff really ever? I have seen about 5 cars with ads on, and once someone gave me a card after we chatted at a playground. Is it because I'm not on Facebook? The stats say so many Americans are involved, I'm not sure how I've avoided them. Speculation?
I think class background matters. Exactly one of my college-educated friends has made a spiel for a MLM to me, but probably 1/3-1/2 of my high school-educated friends and family are involved.
I agree. I have a few people on FB who sell various make up products. A few of them have straight up said that they only sell so that they can buy at wholesale prices. I don't know how well that's working out for them. I'm a little afraid that another one is being sucked into something that's going to be really bad for her. She's the classic target. She and her son's dad can't afford for her to work and pay daycare, so she stays home. She sees this as a way for her to contribute to the household. I also thinks she sees it as a way that she can justify getting out of the house and using their one car in the evenings/weekends and have actual adult conversations. I've posted a few things about how MLMs are scams, but haven't actually tagger her in anything. Just hoping she reads the articles.
"wholesale"
:(
It could make sense for someone who "does makeup" as a significant side gig. I'm thinking about people who own boutiques, who sell makeup services to the Wedding Industrial Complex, who want a reason to up-charge because the mainstream stuff from a beauty supply company doesn't make the bride feel special enough.
I was just pointing out that consultants don't buy from MLMs at "wholesale" prices. Consultants are the main customers. The profit is made by the company when they sell to the consultant.
You have a point. Maybe "buying at a discount" is a better term. Though, I might argue that pretty much any business that buys a product with a profit margin of less than 100% is also not paying "wholesale."
I thought wholesale was any purchase made with the intent of reselling, as in, not retail? That would make the usage here correct. However, sellers almost certainly are not getting the deal they think they're getting. Some people seem to think wholesale = cost to manufacture + a small margin. In reality it's like any other sale; they charge as much as they think you'll pay.
-
The lady who runs "mommygyver" and spent a lot of effort showing Lularoe for what it is has been in a long legal fight (they are trying to get her sources for the information she has been given, and, as a journalist, she's fighting it). You can still read at least some of her posts on LLR on her site, but it's not as easy to get to as it was before.
https://www.mommygyver.com/mommyblog-1/category/LuLaRoe/page/8 I linked to the older posts so you can work your way through the timeline if interested.
FWIW, MAP (Minimum Advertised Pricing, the topic of mommygyver's post on that page) gets a lot of negative comments, but it's actually really important to a manufacturer. Because if you allow a dealer to sell below MAP, it reduces *all* dealers' ability to make a profit, and so all those dealers won't want to carry your product. If you're a manufacturer trying to gain market penetration, taking care of your dealers is critical. An extreme example would be a large retailer with slim margins (say, Amazon or Walmart) undercutting all the mom & pop stores.
-
Is there anyone else who doesn't run into MLM stuff really ever? I have seen about 5 cars with ads on, and once someone gave me a card after we chatted at a playground. Is it because I'm not on Facebook? The stats say so many Americans are involved, I'm not sure how I've avoided them. Speculation?
I think class background matters. Exactly one of my college-educated friends has made a spiel for a MLM to me, but probably 1/3-1/2 of my high school-educated friends and family are involved.
I agree. I have a few people on FB who sell various make up products. A few of them have straight up said that they only sell so that they can buy at wholesale prices. I don't know how well that's working out for them. I'm a little afraid that another one is being sucked into something that's going to be really bad for her. She's the classic target. She and her son's dad can't afford for her to work and pay daycare, so she stays home. She sees this as a way for her to contribute to the household. I also thinks she sees it as a way that she can justify getting out of the house and using their one car in the evenings/weekends and have actual adult conversations. I've posted a few things about how MLMs are scams, but haven't actually tagger her in anything. Just hoping she reads the articles.
"wholesale"
:(
It could make sense for someone who "does makeup" as a significant side gig. I'm thinking about people who own boutiques, who sell makeup services to the Wedding Industrial Complex, who want a reason to up-charge because the mainstream stuff from a beauty supply company doesn't make the bride feel special enough.
I was just pointing out that consultants don't buy from MLMs at "wholesale" prices. Consultants are the main customers. The profit is made by the company when they sell to the consultant.
You have a point. Maybe "buying at a discount" is a better term. Though, I might argue that pretty much any business that buys a product with a profit margin of less than 100% is also not paying "wholesale."
I thought wholesale was any purchase made with the intent of reselling, as in, not retail? That would make the usage here correct. However, sellers almost certainly are not getting the deal they think they're getting. Some people seem to think wholesale = cost to manufacture + a small margin. In reality it's like any other sale; they charge as much as they think you'll pay.
I'm a wholesaler, buying someone 'wholesale,' essentially just means that you are buying it from a wholesaler. Generally speaking it is in a wholesaler's advantage to sell their products to distributors and retailers at a discount from the retail price, thus they can make a profit selling it and come back for more.
Way too many people think 'wholsale pricing,' is necessarily good.
-
That podcast is really interesting. Well done too. I'm on the third episode.
-
Is there anyone else who doesn't run into MLM stuff really ever? I have seen about 5 cars with ads on, and once someone gave me a card after we chatted at a playground. Is it because I'm not on Facebook? The stats say so many Americans are involved, I'm not sure how I've avoided them. Speculation?
I think class background matters. Exactly one of my college-educated friends has made a spiel for a MLM to me, but probably 1/3-1/2 of my high school-educated friends and family are involved.
I agree. I have a few people on FB who sell various make up products. A few of them have straight up said that they only sell so that they can buy at wholesale prices. I don't know how well that's working out for them. I'm a little afraid that another one is being sucked into something that's going to be really bad for her. She's the classic target. She and her son's dad can't afford for her to work and pay daycare, so she stays home. She sees this as a way for her to contribute to the household. I also thinks she sees it as a way that she can justify getting out of the house and using their one car in the evenings/weekends and have actual adult conversations. I've posted a few things about how MLMs are scams, but haven't actually tagger her in anything. Just hoping she reads the articles.
"wholesale"
:(
It could make sense for someone who "does makeup" as a significant side gig. I'm thinking about people who own boutiques, who sell makeup services to the Wedding Industrial Complex, who want a reason to up-charge because the mainstream stuff from a beauty supply company doesn't make the bride feel special enough.
I was just pointing out that consultants don't buy from MLMs at "wholesale" prices. Consultants are the main customers. The profit is made by the company when they sell to the consultant.
You have a point. Maybe "buying at a discount" is a better term. Though, I might argue that pretty much any business that buys a product with a profit margin of less than 100% is also not paying "wholesale."
I thought wholesale was any purchase made with the intent of reselling, as in, not retail? That would make the usage here correct. However, sellers almost certainly are not getting the deal they think they're getting. Some people seem to think wholesale = cost to manufacture + a small margin. In reality it's like any other sale; they charge as much as they think you'll pay.
I would assume the wholesaler is the person selling the product to the MLM, who then sells it to the distributors.
Also, if you are just buying for the discount, you aren't buying with intent to resell. So the usage doesn't seem right.
-
A business insider article on the train wreck that is lularoe
https://www.businessinsider.com/lularoe-legging-empire-mounting-debt-top-sellers-flee-2018-11?fbclid=IwAR3U4jJdmvRcnn_uxF7jgE61Wd9VGWNLP9NnRvoxZp_U4YwCpDhz2qlly7A?utm_source=copy-link&utm_medium=referral&utm_content=topbar&utm_term=mobile (https://www.businessinsider.com/lularoe-legging-empire-mounting-debt-top-sellers-flee-2018-11?fbclid=IwAR3U4jJdmvRcnn_uxF7jgE61Wd9VGWNLP9NnRvoxZp_U4YwCpDhz2qlly7A?utm_source=copy-link&utm_medium=referral&utm_content=topbar&utm_term=mobile)
-
So... poor quality, receiving lawsuits, people leaving in droves, not paying their bills... Are we sure LulaRoe isn't the State of Illinois? :P
-
if any MMMers are IT admins, here's an uplifting article to help humanity from the MLM scum:
https://www.reddit.com/r/antiMLM/comments/9z4vp4/i_am_in_charge_of_our_web_and_spam_filters_at_work/
-
Irony, listening to "The Dream" on an airplane going home, then getting off the plane and walking under a "Welcome" sign from one of the biggest MLMs in the world. Yup my thoughts on the company are "it's complicated." The actual company and it's founders other business, not the MLM part, are a huge economic driver in my town.
-
I started listening to The Dream a couple of months ago, then caught up over the weekend. The episode about the Limelight convention, the people sharing stories about economic despair, the tightrope that is their lives, even potential suicide, it's alarming. The Dream has one episode left to publish, I believe.
-
Irony, listening to "The Dream" on an airplane going home, then getting off the plane and walking under a "Welcome" sign from one of the biggest MLMs in the world. Yup my thoughts on the company are "it's complicated." The actual company and it's founders other business, not the MLM part, are a huge economic driver in my town.
I bet I can guess where you live. I've never been in that airport, but the downtown area drives home your point very nicely (although it is a very nice downtown).
-
I've long been a little fascinated by how MLM big wigs can take advantage of the people recruited to work for the company and still take pride in their wealth and what their wealth afforded them.
"Look at my house, look at my cars, look at my boats!"
Yeah but look at all the people screwed over to generate the cash flow to buy these things. How can a person have pride in that?
Can apply to politicians, religious leaders, corporate leaders, MLM leaders, etc.
-
Lularoe, the ugly leggings MLM, has had a lawsuit filed against them from their former supplier. There is a link to a pdf of the lawsuit here: https://www.facebook.com/groups/defective/permalink/1590805307732714/
From the lawsuit (owner of LLR to the supplier, MyDyer):
"Look guys, I am not going to pay you guys a f***ing dime unless a judge orders me to pay it, and DeAnne and I will take our two to three hundred million dollars to the Bahamas and f*** everything."
Lawsuit is for upwards of $48 million owed.
-
Such nice people... People to be admired and celebrated. True American success stories.
-
With LLR, the episode of American Greed just writes itself! The company culture is so toxic too, it might as well be a cult. When the lawsuit article broke on Saturday morning, the remaining top sellers and mentors all spouted the same lies. Many of them were headed to CA for Facebook training for the day, and all big companies get hit w/lawsuits, no big deal. Furthermore, LLR didn't pay those bills b/c the product was defective, they changed suppliers and this was sour grapes!
Umm, the FB training is something you can do online, so they obviously were headed to corporate offices to scheme some more lies to keep their consultants in line.
As for the lawsuit, if you order cheap fabrics and pay for low quality assembly, then that's what you get. Can't blame the supplier for supplying you with crap product, when that's what you ordered. Furthermore, in most cases, LLR determined that these products were not defective when the consultants noticed the issues. You can't have it both ways. You didn't pay the supplier b/c it was crap, but you charged your consultants to buy the crap, and then opted to counsel the consultants to blame their clients when things went wrong!
Your leggings popped a huge hole on the very first wear? You didn't order the right size. The fabric disintegrated in the wash? Why would you assume you could wash them like normal clothing? Oh no, you have to hand wash and airy dry, like a fine pair of nylon stockings!
As someone who has never been involved in LLR in any way, it's been an interesting education in the inner workings of this one MLM, and I am rooting for the ship to go down, soon. Unfortunately, the ones left holding the bag will be the ones least able to afford it, and the ones who should be held criminally responsible will get off mostly unscathed, likely with most of their stolen proceeds intact.
-
Irony, listening to "The Dream" on an airplane going home, then getting off the plane and walking under a "Welcome" sign from one of the biggest MLMs in the world. Yup my thoughts on the company are "it's complicated." The actual company and it's founders other business, not the MLM part, are a huge economic driver in my town.
I bet I can guess where you live. I've never been in that airport, but the downtown area drives home your point very nicely (although it is a very nice downtown).
I have also been to that airport and grew up close to that area.
I also loved "The Dream" podcast. I would highly recommend it to anyone frustrated with MLMs.
-
Furthermore, in most cases, LLR determined that these products were not defective when the consultants noticed the issues.
The Dream dropped me down a rabbit hole of MLM podcasts, and the LLR story is fascinating. They may legitimately have a case for not paying their supplier if half of what consultants were saying was true - product arriving stinking, wet, torn, or otherwise damaged. Low quality items that tear upon first use.
But Hunny156 is right. LLR's response was that the consultants were wrong and that the defects were isolated. They basically acted like it wasn't true. Instead of responding swiftly to correct the supplier quality control issue and make things rights in order to protect their reputation, LLR's corporate office basically assisted in destroying their own reputation. They kept shipping from that supplier and blamed their customer instead.
What's more, LLR refused to refund the cost of the low-quality clothes to the consultants. So they sold the clothes, and didn't pay their supplier. You can't have your cake and eat it too.
-
More MLM podcasts? Share them! The Dream was amazing and I'm thirsty for more!
-
I also enjoyed The Dream podcast until the last 2 episodes. I really wish they would have continued to focus on the specific MLMs and their practices and those who have been hurt by them. Listening to that last interview was a bit unbearable. I don't know any reasonable journalist who would start off an interview but stating that they think the other person is going to lie to them. Started the whole thing off on a bad point and you could tell the guy was defensive from the beginning. It felt like the 2 different interviews were just being combative and leaning on their investigation of that specific company and other witness interviews. It seemed like too much anecdotal evidence and seemed to loose credibility in how it was presented during that interview. I personally hate MLMs and would love to see them go away because they do cause much more harm than good, but I wish they would have kept talking about the structure of the companies more and provide more insight on how the practice is setup to hurt people instead of help them.
-
I also enjoyed The Dream podcast until the last 2 episodes. I really wish they would have continued to focus on the specific MLMs and their practices and those who have been hurt by them. Listening to that last interview was a bit unbearable. I don't know any reasonable journalist who would start off an interview but stating that they think the other person is going to lie to them. Started the whole thing off on a bad point and you could tell the guy was defensive from the beginning. It felt like the 2 different interviews were just being combative and leaning on their investigation of that specific company and other witness interviews. It seemed like too much anecdotal evidence and seemed to loose credibility in how it was presented during that interview. I personally hate MLMs and would love to see them go away because they do cause much more harm than good, but I wish they would have kept talking about the structure of the companies more and provide more insight on how the practice is setup to hurt people instead of help them.
You're right! That last episode was brutal. Lame journalism that hurt the rest of the series, which is a real shame because arg I want MLMs to GO DOWN!!!
-
I also enjoyed The Dream podcast until the last 2 episodes. I really wish they would have continued to focus on the specific MLMs and their practices and those who have been hurt by them. Listening to that last interview was a bit unbearable. I don't know any reasonable journalist who would start off an interview but stating that they think the other person is going to lie to them. Started the whole thing off on a bad point and you could tell the guy was defensive from the beginning. It felt like the 2 different interviews were just being combative and leaning on their investigation of that specific company and other witness interviews. It seemed like too much anecdotal evidence and seemed to loose credibility in how it was presented during that interview. I personally hate MLMs and would love to see them go away because they do cause much more harm than good, but I wish they would have kept talking about the structure of the companies more and provide more insight on how the practice is setup to hurt people instead of help them.
You're right! That last episode was brutal. Lame journalism that hurt the rest of the series, which is a real shame because arg I want MLMs to GO DOWN!!!
I also agree. Episode 11 was a disappointment on many levels. However, I'm very interested in the MLM industry. Are there any books that anyone can recommend?
-
I also enjoyed The Dream podcast until the last 2 episodes. I really wish they would have continued to focus on the specific MLMs and their practices and those who have been hurt by them. Listening to that last interview was a bit unbearable. I don't know any reasonable journalist who would start off an interview but stating that they think the other person is going to lie to them. Started the whole thing off on a bad point and you could tell the guy was defensive from the beginning. It felt like the 2 different interviews were just being combative and leaning on their investigation of that specific company and other witness interviews. It seemed like too much anecdotal evidence and seemed to loose credibility in how it was presented during that interview. I personally hate MLMs and would love to see them go away because they do cause much more harm than good, but I wish they would have kept talking about the structure of the companies more and provide more insight on how the practice is setup to hurt people instead of help them.
You're right! That last episode was brutal. Lame journalism that hurt the rest of the series, which is a real shame because arg I want MLMs to GO DOWN!!!
I also agree. Episode 11 was a disappointment on many levels. However, I'm very interested in the MLM industry. Are there any books that anyone can recommend?
Disclaimer: I have not read this!
One that completely fascinates me is Amway. Mostly because I don't know enough about it to figure out how the hell anyone expects to make any money. But, I know enough about it that they force "training" on people, and that seems to be how some of them make money (by creating and selling the training material). But I really just don't get it. Why are people so convinced they can get rich and quit their jobs.
This was recommended to me, and I want to read it, but I'm an extremely slow reader and already in the middle of two other books right now.
https://archive.org/details/MerchantsOfDeception
There is a pdf you can download (the kindle version didn't work for me). It's legible (unlike the version shown on the computer when you just go to the link). It's written by a man who was deep into amway (and one of the top people).
...My wife and I were recruited by friends and quickly rose through the ranks and found ourselves in the top 1/25th of 1% of the multi-billion dollar Amway Corporation. For nearly a decade, we developed a “business” that expanded from North America to Europe, South America, and the Philippines. We spoke to thousands from stage and worked intimately with the Kingpin distributors through whom as much as 90% of Amway's $4-5 billion dollars in annual revenue flows. My wife and I spent personal time with the company's billionaire founder Rich DeVos.
To make a long story short, at the highest level, I inadvertently discovered what documentation now appears to reveal as two decades of systematic, global fraud running into sums far in excess of twenty billion dollars. When I initially discovered the deception, I naively thought it only involved Kingpin level distributors in the field. I immediately reported it to Amway senior management with nearly 50 pages of corroborating documentation.
Their response was more shocking than what I had discovered. Instead of taking action against the Kingpin level distributors that were clearly defrauding the masses, they began to make threats of taking punitive action against me. Fortunately, I had them do it all in writing...
-
I also enjoyed The Dream podcast until the last 2 episodes. I really wish they would have continued to focus on the specific MLMs and their practices and those who have been hurt by them. Listening to that last interview was a bit unbearable. I don't know any reasonable journalist who would start off an interview but stating that they think the other person is going to lie to them. Started the whole thing off on a bad point and you could tell the guy was defensive from the beginning. It felt like the 2 different interviews were just being combative and leaning on their investigation of that specific company and other witness interviews. It seemed like too much anecdotal evidence and seemed to loose credibility in how it was presented during that interview. I personally hate MLMs and would love to see them go away because they do cause much more harm than good, but I wish they would have kept talking about the structure of the companies more and provide more insight on how the practice is setup to hurt people instead of help them.
You're right! That last episode was brutal. Lame journalism that hurt the rest of the series, which is a real shame because arg I want MLMs to GO DOWN!!!
I also agree. Episode 11 was a disappointment on many levels. However, I'm very interested in the MLM industry. Are there any books that anyone can recommend?
Disclaimer: I have not read this!
One that completely fascinates me is Amway. Mostly because I don't know enough about it to figure out how the hell anyone expects to make any money. But, I know enough about it that they force "training" on people, and that seems to be how some of them make money (by creating and selling the training material). But I really just don't get it. Why are people so convinced they can get rich and quit their jobs.
This was recommended to me, and I want to read it, but I'm an extremely slow reader and already in the middle of two other books right now.
https://archive.org/details/MerchantsOfDeception
There is a pdf you can download (the kindle version didn't work for me). It's legible (unlike the version shown on the computer when you just go to the link). It's written by a man who was deep into amway (and one of the top people).
...My wife and I were recruited by friends and quickly rose through the ranks and found ourselves in the top 1/25th of 1% of the multi-billion dollar Amway Corporation. For nearly a decade, we developed a “business” that expanded from North America to Europe, South America, and the Philippines. We spoke to thousands from stage and worked intimately with the Kingpin distributors through whom as much as 90% of Amway's $4-5 billion dollars in annual revenue flows. My wife and I spent personal time with the company's billionaire founder Rich DeVos.
To make a long story short, at the highest level, I inadvertently discovered what documentation now appears to reveal as two decades of systematic, global fraud running into sums far in excess of twenty billion dollars. When I initially discovered the deception, I naively thought it only involved Kingpin level distributors in the field. I immediately reported it to Amway senior management with nearly 50 pages of corroborating documentation.
Their response was more shocking than what I had discovered. Instead of taking action against the Kingpin level distributors that were clearly defrauding the masses, they began to make threats of taking punitive action against me. Fortunately, I had them do it all in writing...
Thanks! I'll have to check it out.
-
I had an extremely awkward interation with a coworker re: Amway (or whatever it's called these days.) She took some time off with her husband to travel to a conference for "their business", which I learned from other coworkers was Amway. This woman and I were work friends--lunch together more often than not, but we had only hung out one time outside of work as part of a large group. So she returns from her conference and a couple days later comes and sits down in my cube. That in and of itself was a bit weird. As soon as she started talking, I could tell she was nervous. So she starts telling me about what a great opportunity having their own business has been for her and her husband, and wouldn't I love to have that freedom? (Or something like that; this was years ago). I told her that DH and I are super busy and didn't have time for anything else, or something along those lines. Of course she didn't take no for an answer, so she then told me that it takes almost no time, and blah blah blah. Thankfully, she was pretty terrible at it because I suck at saying now (although there is no way I would have every said yes to that, but it probably would have gotten very awkward). It was pretty obvious that she was using scripts she'd been given to counter various arguments, but after a few attempts, she gave up and left it with telling me to contact her if I changed my mind and ever wanted to be able to quit work and run my own business.
I considered reporting her to management, but it would have gotten super awkward in a fairly small workplace, so I didn't.
-
More MLM podcasts? Share them! The Dream was amazing and I'm thirsty for more!
Was it the sort of production you can listen to, that contains content, and that delivers it in an intelligent way?
I have to admit that I've tried a few podcasts and TED talks only to delete them early because the people on them simply can't communicate verbally. My personal rule is that if no new information is communicated within the first three minutes, I switch it off. Mostly I've found podcasts to be mumble-mumble, jargon, throat clearing, lip smacking, "well you know", and people interrupting each other or laughing about some kind of inside joke the audience isn't part of. TED talks are even worse because they're one-sided emotional bubblings that simply don't deliver any content. Sitting around wasting ten minutes of bandwidth for something that could have been communicated in thirty seconds or less isn't my idea of a good time. So I haven't done any podcasts in years.
-
Do you like This American Life? It was along those lines. Pretty informative, almost like a nonfiction book. I actually don't generally love TED talks or super conversational podcasts, myself, but to me The Dream was more substantive.
-
Are there any books that anyone can recommend?
I have found the best book on MLM's is "MULTI-LEVEL MARKETING UNMASKED – Why Multilevel Marketing Is Unfair and Deceptive" By Jon M. Taylor. Here is a link to that book on www.mlmwatch.org:
https://www.mlmwatch.org/01General/mlm_unmasked_2017.pdf (https://www.mlmwatch.org/01General/mlm_unmasked_2017.pdf)
Happy reading. (/sar. The info in that book gets me all-fired-up.)
-
For me there are podcasts and there are podcasts. I rarely have patience for the very amateur podcasts recorded in someone's spare room. Not enough content, too much of all the things TGS mentioned.
Then there are podcasts that could easily double for an NPR/BBC radio show - and sometimes do. Those are very professionally made and to me, interesting most of the time. TAL and The Dream were good examples. Hidden Brain is another one I've enjoyed.
-
It's been awhile, but with the holidays the MLM parties are popping out of the woodwork!
Essential oil "classes" like crazy, huge number of vendor fairs and just today Color Street Nails. basically jamberry, but made out of real nail polish and really limited selection. No thanks, I'll just keep painting my nails.
All the LLR consultants I know of in the area are still selling. I don't think people are buying as much though, I rarely see it around, and for awhile it was everywhere.
-
Ugh! I was hunting for a new podcast, and I came across a women's side hustle podcast (I forget the actual title of the podcast). The first (and only) episode I downloaded was about an MLM. I immediately deleted the episode. UGH!
-
I also enjoyed The Dream podcast until the last 2 episodes. I really wish they would have continued to focus on the specific MLMs and their practices and those who have been hurt by them. Listening to that last interview was a bit unbearable. I don't know any reasonable journalist who would start off an interview but stating that they think the other person is going to lie to them. Started the whole thing off on a bad point and you could tell the guy was defensive from the beginning. It felt like the 2 different interviews were just being combative and leaning on their investigation of that specific company and other witness interviews. It seemed like too much anecdotal evidence and seemed to loose credibility in how it was presented during that interview. I personally hate MLMs and would love to see them go away because they do cause much more harm than good, but I wish they would have kept talking about the structure of the companies more and provide more insight on how the practice is setup to hurt people instead of help them.
You're right! That last episode was brutal. Lame journalism that hurt the rest of the series, which is a real shame because arg I want MLMs to GO DOWN!!!
I also agree. Episode 11 was a disappointment on many levels. However, I'm very interested in the MLM industry. Are there any books that anyone can recommend?
Disclaimer: I have not read this!
One that completely fascinates me is Amway. Mostly because I don't know enough about it to figure out how the hell anyone expects to make any money. But, I know enough about it that they force "training" on people, and that seems to be how some of them make money (by creating and selling the training material). But I really just don't get it. Why are people so convinced they can get rich and quit their jobs.
This was recommended to me, and I want to read it, but I'm an extremely slow reader and already in the middle of two other books right now.
https://archive.org/details/MerchantsOfDeception
There is a pdf you can download (the kindle version didn't work for me). It's legible (unlike the version shown on the computer when you just go to the link). It's written by a man who was deep into amway (and one of the top people).
...My wife and I were recruited by friends and quickly rose through the ranks and found ourselves in the top 1/25th of 1% of the multi-billion dollar Amway Corporation. For nearly a decade, we developed a “business” that expanded from North America to Europe, South America, and the Philippines. We spoke to thousands from stage and worked intimately with the Kingpin distributors through whom as much as 90% of Amway's $4-5 billion dollars in annual revenue flows. My wife and I spent personal time with the company's billionaire founder Rich DeVos.
To make a long story short, at the highest level, I inadvertently discovered what documentation now appears to reveal as two decades of systematic, global fraud running into sums far in excess of twenty billion dollars. When I initially discovered the deception, I naively thought it only involved Kingpin level distributors in the field. I immediately reported it to Amway senior management with nearly 50 pages of corroborating documentation.
Their response was more shocking than what I had discovered. Instead of taking action against the Kingpin level distributors that were clearly defrauding the masses, they began to make threats of taking punitive action against me. Fortunately, I had them do it all in writing...
Thanks! I'll have to check it out.
I have read it. It's a pretty good read, but towards the end, I felt like the author was just so shocked coming out of the Amway fog, that he rambled on for about 50 pages too long. So you might want to skip to the very end if you feel the same way I did.
-
Ugh I belong to an expat moms group in my town and there is this one woman who keeps spamming our online group with invitations to gatherings where she's obviously trying to hawk her MLM. This is driving me and another member crazy but the group moderator is too polite to do anything.
-
It's been awhile, but with the holidays the MLM parties are popping out of the woodwork!
Essential oil "classes" like crazy, huge number of vendor fairs and just today Color Street Nails. basically jamberry, but made out of real nail polish and really limited selection. No thanks, I'll just keep painting my nails.
All the LLR consultants I know of in the area are still selling. I don't think people are buying as much though, I rarely see it around, and for awhile it was everywhere.
For me, Usborne books. Two invites in one week. And now, the skincare Rodan & Fields again. One of my college buddies promised to send me a "free gift!" So I sent her my address with a "uh, my idea of skin care is that I wash my face in the shower..."
-
What happened to leggings? I thought they were just the best. There isn't another brand worth buying instead of LRR? I'm male so forgive my ignorance about these things. Maybe the interest in that style ended with the beginning of LRR's troubles?
-
I enjoyed The Dream podcast, but it was left too unresolved. I'm curious about how much money the limelight/limelife girl ended up putting in, how she was treated if it wasn't enough, etc.
-
What happened to leggings? I thought they were just the best. There isn't another brand worth buying instead of LRR? I'm male so forgive my ignorance about these things. Maybe the interest in that style ended with the beginning of LRR's troubles?
I wear leggings every day after giving up on pants about two years ago. The only ones I buy are the Felina brand two packs from Costco in black. I buy four sets once per year and toss them as I wear out the thighs (I'm a bit overweight, hence the aversion to pants). I wear them under a wide assortment of dresses for all occasions. They are wonderfully soft, not too long for my short legs, and cost about $7.50/pair. I love them. No MLMs required.
-
I never understood the draw of LLR. Supposedly the fabric is buttery soft. Well, you can go to CVS and they have leggings on sale there called "butter soft", so I imagine it's the same quality of polyester. Wal Mart & target also advertise this way, and the leggings are far cheaper at all three stores than what LLR charges.
OK, so maybe it's the crazy pattern thing? Well, I've seen the displays at Walmart, and they have tons of patterns as well. LLR then caused a huge uproar with their "noir" line, as in solid black leggings, which were considered unicorns. Like, seriously? Black leggings can be had literally ANYWHERE! I understand that Amazon has a store called Leggings Depot, where all sorts of similar leggings can be found for $12, and of course, Amazon will stand by the item if it's damaged in any way.
So I have NEVER understood why anyone would go crazy over such a common, easy to find item. Group think? Perceived scarcity? A bunch of women wanting to support a friend's business and thinking $25 isn't a big deal?
-
LLR's leggings were the softest leggings with the best waistline I was able to find for the price point. Similar waist styles seemed to cost twice as much.
But if you didn't mind the elastic waist bands, leggings could easily be had or 1/3 the price.
When I was pregnant, and my waist was super picky- LLR was the way to go for me. (I had two pairs, I was given one free and bought the other.)
The ridiculous patterns blew it for me though. I just want black leggings.
However, except for the Target leggings I bought 12 years ago (still going strong), I've yet to find any that I actually like.
-
LLR's leggings were the softest leggings with the best waistline I was able to find for the price point. Similar waist styles seemed to cost twice as much.
But if you didn't mind the elastic waist bands, leggings could easily be had or 1/3 the price.
When I was pregnant, and my waist was super picky- LLR was the way to go for me. (I had two pairs, I was given one free and bought the other.)
The ridiculous patterns blew it for me though. I just want black leggings.
However, except for the Target leggings I bought 12 years ago (still going strong), I've yet to find any that I actually like.
Agreed. The waistband is what sold LLR for me. I've been wearing them to yoga, and they still fit at 26 weeks (and hopefully longer!).
I did see some leggings with a similar waistband with no added elastic at Target the other day, but they were warm/sweater leggings. I don't know if they make them in a summer weight :(
-
Leggings Depot has the same waistband as an option, and if you are a Costco member, I have heard that the Felina branded ones have the waistband that everyone likes.
Me, I like my leggings to not move and have full coverage, so I found these Tuff Athletics brand on sale at Costco for $12.99 each, which I understand are comparable to LuLuLemon. Works great in winter with boots and a long sweater. Easy work wardrobe for corporate casual.
-
I've long been a little fascinated by how MLM big wigs can take advantage of the people recruited to work for the company and still take pride in their wealth and what their wealth afforded them.
"Look at my house, look at my cars, look at my boats!"
Yeah but look at all the people screwed over to generate the cash flow to buy these things. How can a person have pride in that?
Can apply to politicians, religious leaders, corporate leaders, MLM leaders, etc.
My father...
-
Are any of you guys getting MLM messages on LinkedIn? I've gotten a couple so far - here's the latest:
"I would like to introduce you this great opportunity to learn the financial knowledge and earn part time income at the same time. You can also potentially build your own business with our company in financial services. We help families earn income, have protection and become financial independent."
Pisses me off. Decline/block.
-
Has anyone studied Federal Anti-Pyramid Bill HR 3409? Marsha Blackburn from TN is sponsoring the bill. it was mentioned in "The Dream" podcast in the final episode. Sounded half baked to me but I was working with powertools while I listened so maybe I missed some detail.
-
Are any of you guys getting MLM messages on LinkedIn? I've gotten a couple so far - here's the latest:
"I would like to introduce you this great opportunity to learn the financial knowledge and earn part time income at the same time. You can also potentially build your own business with our company in financial services. We help families earn income, have protection and become financial independent."
Pisses me off. Decline/block.
Increasingly so for the last couple of years. From people in my network. That I personally know and have worked with. Infuriating.
Deleted LinkedIn account in Oct 2018. Zero. Social. Media. Also all social media sites blocked in the house using a pihole. Can't even go to other's social media accounts or for businesses.
-
Two more people on my FB have been sucked down the Arbonne rabbit hole, independent of one another and unrelated to the other Arbonne fanatic I know. I am SO.OVER.IT.
-
Start posting links to "The Dream" podcast to social media anytime anyone starts advertising.
-
Has anyone studied Federal Anti-Pyramid Bill HR 3409? Marsha Blackburn from TN is sponsoring the bill. it was mentioned in "The Dream" podcast in the final episode. Sounded half baked to me but I was working with powertools while I listened so maybe I missed some detail.
Studied? A bill? No, I have hobbies.
-
I'm truly over the whole MLM business. Someone I know, who I thought was a good friend, sells for a couple of MLMs. She knows I am not interested, but recently has found herself in even bigger financial trouble. She's always been in financial trouble, but I guess she wants Christmas money for her kids. She makes over $75k a year in a very CHEAP area of the country. It's a spending problem not an income problem.
So, now she pressures me again a few days ago. She is also selling knock-off clothing and handbags. I want no part of any of this. So, she's super pissed because she knows I have extra money and just won't help her out. WTF.
-
I'm truly over the whole MLM business. Someone I know, who I thought was a good friend, sells for a couple of MLMs. She knows I am not interested, but recently has found herself in even bigger financial trouble. She's always been in financial trouble, but I guess she wants Christmas money for her kids. She makes over $75k a year in a very CHEAP area of the country. It's a spending problem not an income problem.
So, now she pressures me again a few days ago. She is also selling knock-off clothing and handbags. I want no part of any of this. So, she's super pissed because she knows I have extra money and just won't help her out. WTF.
But it's YOUR money. You get to spend it as you like!
-
I'm truly over the whole MLM business. Someone I know, who I thought was a good friend, sells for a couple of MLMs. She knows I am not interested, but recently has found herself in even bigger financial trouble. She's always been in financial trouble, but I guess she wants Christmas money for her kids. She makes over $75k a year in a very CHEAP area of the country. It's a spending problem not an income problem.
So, now she pressures me again a few days ago. She is also selling knock-off clothing and handbags. I want no part of any of this. So, she's super pissed because she knows I have extra money and just won't help her out. WTF.
1) Ugh. That is not a friend.
2) What MLM sells knock off clothing and handbags?
-
Got a "Scout and Cellar" insert in a Christmas card we received, from friends who should know better (highly educated, great, high paying jobs). I'm at a loss.
-
Best Christmas ever this year from the in-laws. ZERO MLM stuff. SIL finally quit it last year, and therefore MIL no longer buys tons of stuff from her to gift us.
That's right folks, instead of another stuffed animal or bath scent product, my DS, age 16 actually got a movie gift certficate. DH did NOT get $100 of room fragrance again (when he is chemically sensitive, and you know, a guy)... but received chocolate that he loves,large box of firewood (split by his dad), and a local craft ornament (that was inexpensive, looks nice, and helped out a local artist).
BEST EVER! Just say NO to the MLM's.... your friends and family are the ones propping you up.
-
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=OoUCINhY5dw&fbclid=IwAR0dyw_5INj4mRNIEmUvPmwEmriQSzoGelkiFFnAQQ4eri273fYQQnpfH_c
Saw this skit about Arbonne today.
-
For those you aren't aware, Dexter Yager of Amway fame, passed away 1/6/19. When we were involved with Amway 95-01, we got to meet and spend some quality one on one time with him and Birdie. I've always been very grateful for those opportunities. No we didn't get rich from Amway, and we spent a lot of the 'support system'. However, we do believe that our lives are better for the experience and that what we learned about ourselves and money eventually lead us to FIRE 4 years ago.
https://www.legacy.com/obituaries/charlotte/obituary.aspx?n=dexter-r-yager&pid=191230147&fhid=4562 (https://www.legacy.com/obituaries/charlotte/obituary.aspx?n=dexter-r-yager&pid=191230147&fhid=4562)
-
For those you aren't aware, Dexter Yager of Amway fame, passed away 1/6/19. When we were involved with Amway 95-01, we got to meet and spend some quality one on one time with him and Birdie. I've always been very grateful for those opportunities. No we didn't get rich from Amway, and we spent a lot of the 'support system'. However, we do believe that our lives are better for the experience and that what we learned about ourselves and money eventually lead us to FIRE 4 years ago.
https://www.legacy.com/obituaries/charlotte/obituary.aspx?n=dexter-r-yager&pid=191230147&fhid=4562 (https://www.legacy.com/obituaries/charlotte/obituary.aspx?n=dexter-r-yager&pid=191230147&fhid=4562)
The following was the actual conversation I had in my head when reading this...
READING... when we were involved with Amway. Oh man, I feel sorry for this couple.
READING... No we didn't get rich from Amway. Yeah, no doubt! MLM's are the most malicious scam out there! I wonder how much money they lost to the scam?!
READING... and we spent a lot of the 'support system'. Oh no doubt! It's a no win situation. You pay, and pay, and pay again. You just can't win.
READING... However, we do believe that our lives are better for the experience and that what we learned about ourselves and money eventually lead us to FIRE 4 years ago. WHA.. WAIT A SEC. Did I just read that wrong?!
REREADING!... However, we do believe that our lives are better for the experience and that what we learned about ourselves and money eventually lead us to FIRE 4 years ago. Stunned. Brain processing. Processing. Processing. Shock. Okay self, pick your chin up off the floor and close your mouth. Shake your head. There must be something missing in all this. This guy must be a shill. Yep, that's it! Let's check to see @peabody58 previous posts to confirm. [I proceed to check out peabody 58 previous posts.] Wha! No this guy is serious. Well, now I gotta click on the provided link. [Clicks on link. Reads obituary info.] Geez, this guy is a serious as measles. SO... MANY... QUESTIONS...
@peabody58 Question... knowing Amway (and other MLMs) are scams - how did that experience and what you learned about yourself help you retire "early"? Certainly you didn't make any money with Amway. What did you gain from that experience that helped? Hoping this doesn't come across rude, but.... was it learning that losing money doesn't allow you to save money? I'm genuinely interested in knowing how Amway allowed you to retire "early".
-
For those you aren't aware, Dexter Yager of Amway fame, passed away 1/6/19. When we were involved with Amway 95-01, we got to meet and spend some quality one on one time with him and Birdie. I've always been very grateful for those opportunities. No we didn't get rich from Amway, and we spent a lot of the 'support system'. However, we do believe that our lives are better for the experience and that what we learned about ourselves and money eventually lead us to FIRE 4 years ago.
https://www.legacy.com/obituaries/charlotte/obituary.aspx?n=dexter-r-yager&pid=191230147&fhid=4562 (https://www.legacy.com/obituaries/charlotte/obituary.aspx?n=dexter-r-yager&pid=191230147&fhid=4562)
The following was the actual conversation I had in my head when reading this...
READING... when we were involved with Amway. Oh man, I feel sorry for this couple.
READING... No we didn't get rich from Amway. Yeah, no doubt! MLM's are the most malicious scam out there! I wonder how much money they lost to the scam?!
READING... and we spent a lot of the 'support system'. Oh no doubt! It's a no win situation. You pay, and pay, and pay again. You just can't win.
READING... However, we do believe that our lives are better for the experience and that what we learned about ourselves and money eventually lead us to FIRE 4 years ago. WHA.. WAIT A SEC. Did I just read that wrong?!
REREADING!... However, we do believe that our lives are better for the experience and that what we learned about ourselves and money eventually lead us to FIRE 4 years ago. Stunned. Brain processing. Processing. Processing. Shock. Okay self, pick your chin up off the floor and close your mouth. Shake your head. There must be something missing in all this.
I'm still back here. Too shocked to look up the user or think anything more than "you are in the wrong place".
I'm almost finished with the "Merchants of Deception" book. The book is interesting, but I still have not been able to grasp why this would ever be something to consider joining. Even the "buy from yourself" draw that was used just does not make sense to me. How can you earn money by spending more money on items you "buy from yourself". And that's before dumping money into "motivational" tools.
-
For those you aren't aware, Dexter Yager of Amway fame, passed away 1/6/19. When we were involved with Amway 95-01, we got to meet and spend some quality one on one time with him and Birdie. I've always been very grateful for those opportunities. No we didn't get rich from Amway, and we spent a lot of the 'support system'. However, we do believe that our lives are better for the experience and that what we learned about ourselves and money eventually lead us to FIRE 4 years ago.
https://www.legacy.com/obituaries/charlotte/obituary.aspx?n=dexter-r-yager&pid=191230147&fhid=4562 (https://www.legacy.com/obituaries/charlotte/obituary.aspx?n=dexter-r-yager&pid=191230147&fhid=4562)
The following was the actual conversation I had in my head when reading this...
READING... when we were involved with Amway. Oh man, I feel sorry for this couple.
READING... No we didn't get rich from Amway. Yeah, no doubt! MLM's are the most malicious scam out there! I wonder how much money they lost to the scam?!
READING... and we spent a lot of the 'support system'. Oh no doubt! It's a no win situation. You pay, and pay, and pay again. You just can't win.
READING... However, we do believe that our lives are better for the experience and that what we learned about ourselves and money eventually lead us to FIRE 4 years ago. WHA.. WAIT A SEC. Did I just read that wrong?!
REREADING!... However, we do believe that our lives are better for the experience and that what we learned about ourselves and money eventually lead us to FIRE 4 years ago. Stunned. Brain processing. Processing. Processing. Shock. Okay self, pick your chin up off the floor and close your mouth. Shake your head. There must be something missing in all this.
I'm still back here. Too shocked to look up the user or think anything more than "you are in the wrong place".
I'm almost finished with the "Merchants of Deception" book. The book is interesting, but I still have not been able to grasp why this would ever be something to consider joining. Even the "buy from yourself" draw that was used just does not make sense to me. How can you earn money by spending more money on items you "buy from yourself". And that's before dumping money into "motivational" tools.
I take it neither of you two have learned and bettered yourself through a bad experience? Yes, MLMs are super scammy and a bad financial decision for most people I think you would be naive to think it is impossible to better yourself through the experience of an MLM. Even as small as the realization you are horrible as a salesperson/recruiter and should find a career doing something else.
I am interested in hearing how their Amway experience bettered their lives and what they learned about themselves and money to lead them to FIRE.
-
For those you aren't aware, Dexter Yager of Amway fame, passed away 1/6/19. When we were involved with Amway 95-01, we got to meet and spend some quality one on one time with him and Birdie. I've always been very grateful for those opportunities. No we didn't get rich from Amway, and we spent a lot of the 'support system'. However, we do believe that our lives are better for the experience and that what we learned about ourselves and money eventually lead us to FIRE 4 years ago.
https://www.legacy.com/obituaries/charlotte/obituary.aspx?n=dexter-r-yager&pid=191230147&fhid=4562 (https://www.legacy.com/obituaries/charlotte/obituary.aspx?n=dexter-r-yager&pid=191230147&fhid=4562)
The following was the actual conversation I had in my head when reading this...
READING... when we were involved with Amway. Oh man, I feel sorry for this couple.
READING... No we didn't get rich from Amway. Yeah, no doubt! MLM's are the most malicious scam out there! I wonder how much money they lost to the scam?!
READING... and we spent a lot of the 'support system'. Oh no doubt! It's a no win situation. You pay, and pay, and pay again. You just can't win.
READING... However, we do believe that our lives are better for the experience and that what we learned about ourselves and money eventually lead us to FIRE 4 years ago. WHA.. WAIT A SEC. Did I just read that wrong?!
REREADING!... However, we do believe that our lives are better for the experience and that what we learned about ourselves and money eventually lead us to FIRE 4 years ago. Stunned. Brain processing. Processing. Processing. Shock. Okay self, pick your chin up off the floor and close your mouth. Shake your head. There must be something missing in all this.
I'm still back here. Too shocked to look up the user or think anything more than "you are in the wrong place".
I'm almost finished with the "Merchants of Deception" book. The book is interesting, but I still have not been able to grasp why this would ever be something to consider joining. Even the "buy from yourself" draw that was used just does not make sense to me. How can you earn money by spending more money on items you "buy from yourself". And that's before dumping money into "motivational" tools.
I take it neither of you two have learned and bettered yourself through a bad experience? Yes, MLMs are super scammy and a bad financial decision for most people I think you would be naive to think it is impossible to better yourself through the experience of an MLM. Even as small as the realization you are horrible as a salesperson/recruiter and should find a career doing something else.
I am interested in hearing how their Amway experience bettered their lives and what they learned about themselves and money to lead them to FIRE.
Same here. But I'm assuming @peabody58 joined Amway early on and the benefits that come with that.
I personally know someone who got on early in ItWorks. He's a former medical sales rep, doesn't personally trust ItWorks, but as long as there are suckers who demand this product in UK and Europe, he's fine raking it in. He was one of the first in the UK, so now he's got a load of people under him, maybe a couple of levels down. On the flip side his wife divorced him when he quit his well-paying job for ItWorks.
-
Question... knowing Amway (and other MLMs) are scams - how did that experience and what you learned about yourself help you retire "early"? Certainly you didn't make any money with Amway. What did you gain from that experience that helped? Hoping this doesn't come across rude, but.... was it learning that losing money doesn't allow you to save money? I'm genuinely interested in knowing how Amway allowed you to retire "early".
Fair enough questions and I fully expected these kind of MMM perspectives. I'm not here to defend the MLM systems, but instead to provide my perspective on how I consider or 'rational' a positive from our experience. And I readily acknowledge that my experience may not match others.
If there was only one road to finding the path to FIRE or happiness, then sadly most of use would be truly screwed. I look at our Amway business period as one of many possible roads that I happened upon and chose to travel. The Amway support system was a learning environment which was lacking in my life. My AS, BS and MS with a Thesis certainly didn't teach me what I needed to do to reach FIRE. 8 years in nuclear submarines certainly didn't. So lets talk about the experience and learning's that helped me.
It's true, financially we didn't get rich. But we also didn't go broke or become desperate. We had a great support system (up-line) who always put our needs before the business. We 'learned' to budget and control our costs to allow us to participate in the program. We had a great time going places, meeting new people, expanding our awareness of life around us and what was possible. We 'learned' how to use the tax system work to our advantage and this in turn helped us to reduce our overall costs. My records show that over our 9 year active Amway period, we spent ~$14,800 and brought in ~$4,000. Hence a 'loss' of $10,800 over 9 yrs, or ~$1,200 yr. And this was before any tax write offs. To account for this loss, we adjusted vacation $$ to the business (and still got to travel), cut out cable extras, and 'learned' that we didn't need a new car every few years. To our surprise, despite the business not making us millionaires overnight, our year to year finances were slowly improving.
And while 'learning' during these 9 years, we were encouraged by our support group (up-line) to ramp up our savings, both in retirement and non-retirement accounts. This forced me to really 'learn' about my 401K plan, quickly realizing I was leaving money on the table, and that my investment selections were not optimal for our goals. A vast amount of the funds we saved during these 9 yrs went a long way to our FIRE in 2015.
One very important thing we 'learned' from the Amway business was about ourselves. I'll be honest, we were not in a good stable relationship. Couples therapy was just one long drawn out agony, not to mention the cost (which was more that $1,200 a year sometimes). And yes, it was tough trying to do the business and having marital issues. Slowly we started seeing changes in ourselves, and how we valued each others support and input. The time we spent together highlighted our faults but magnified our strengths and blessings. We included our kids as much as possible in the business trips, and they grew and strengthened as we got our relationship shit together. We recognized that we were blessed and worked hard to keep the positive improvements moving forward. Bumps in the road (even now) are cushioned by what we 'learned' in the system. The Amway support system came at the right time for us and we truly believe that without it, we would have divorced in a few short years. Divorce can ruin many chances of FIRE, and I know of many divorced friends, family and co-workers who have to post-pone their retirement goals due to the financial impact that it creates. Or as my wife likes to kid me now: I was too cheap to get divorced!
Shortly after 9/11, our Amway business suffered, we lost some great up-line (support), and our heart just wasn't in it anymore. We let the business limp on till around 2004 when we dropped out for good. We actively took what we had 'learned' about life, finances, dreams, and each other; and set new and exciting goals for ourselves. The Amway business/support system was our School of Hard Knocks, and it only cost us $10,800 for both of us. Compare that to a college degree these days. So from 2002 until FIRE in 2015 (4 years ahead of schedule), we became mini-mustaches without even knowing about MMM (until later).
In retrospect, from 1982 (married) to 1995 (joined Amway), we wasted/lost so much money from frequent bad new auto purchases, bad stock buys (get rich quick $5K Alaskan Apollo Gold Mines), over the top vacations, unnecessary luxury's (indoor hot tub), and poor retirement planning to name a few. Easily $4-6K yr. From 1995-2002 (active Amway period), we cut our expenses and only spent $1,400 yr investing in ourselves. We also improved our savings, saved our marriage and despite the struggle, can look back fondly on the good times we had. From 2002-2015, we became a lean mean saving machine. And we still made time and $$ for fun things to build upon. My wife was able to pursue her spiritual passion and became a pastor. She attributes the Amway experience to giving her the belief in herself and strength to complete the process. In 2015, the stars aligned and we went for it. All the pre-planning paid off, and here we are 4 years later, still financially secure, healthy and enjoying our retirement and all that it offers. It only took $10,800 of 'learning', 20 years of delayed gratification, and a lot of hard work.
Again, this was my path, my road to FIRE. Your mileage and experiences may vary. Would I do it again? Knowing what I know now, no. But how does one get to where they know what they know now without not knowing what they didn't know then?
I hope this reflection upon how I Amway'd, survived, and still FIRE'd provides the insight the dis-believers are seeking. Please stay classy with your comments and rebukes. And if you can't, at least include an emoji. Either way, that's my story and I'm sticking to it.
And to add fire to the FIRE, my darling wife and I will be celebrating our 37th anniversary this Oct at Walt Disney World (our happy place) using our DVC timeshare (oh the horror...) at Bay Lake Towers and our Annual Pass (women and children passing out)!! But.... before you flame me for such an anti-MMM frivolous spending behavior, I at least booked the lowest cost studio (very MMM) and the Annual Pass was bought 8 yrs ago (part of the plan) and has appreciated in value 79% so far (extreme MMM), which will make each park visit for our 30 days of visits at Disney only ~$14.40 per person (mind blown MMM).
PS - be sure to see the POMS movie with Diane Keaton this Mother's Day weekend. It was filmed in the 55+ community where we live now in Georgia. If the water volleyball footage makes it into the movie, I'm the one looking all buff and sexy! (and bald).
-
For those you aren't aware, Dexter Yager of Amway fame, passed away 1/6/19. When we were involved with Amway 95-01, we got to meet and spend some quality one on one time with him and Birdie. I've always been very grateful for those opportunities. No we didn't get rich from Amway, and we spent a lot of the 'support system'. However, we do believe that our lives are better for the experience and that what we learned about ourselves and money eventually lead us to FIRE 4 years ago.
https://www.legacy.com/obituaries/charlotte/obituary.aspx?n=dexter-r-yager&pid=191230147&fhid=4562 (https://www.legacy.com/obituaries/charlotte/obituary.aspx?n=dexter-r-yager&pid=191230147&fhid=4562)
The following was the actual conversation I had in my head when reading this...
READING... when we were involved with Amway. Oh man, I feel sorry for this couple.
READING... No we didn't get rich from Amway. Yeah, no doubt! MLM's are the most malicious scam out there! I wonder how much money they lost to the scam?!
READING... and we spent a lot of the 'support system'. Oh no doubt! It's a no win situation. You pay, and pay, and pay again. You just can't win.
READING... However, we do believe that our lives are better for the experience and that what we learned about ourselves and money eventually lead us to FIRE 4 years ago. WHA.. WAIT A SEC. Did I just read that wrong?!
REREADING!... However, we do believe that our lives are better for the experience and that what we learned about ourselves and money eventually lead us to FIRE 4 years ago. Stunned. Brain processing. Processing. Processing. Shock. Okay self, pick your chin up off the floor and close your mouth. Shake your head. There must be something missing in all this.
I'm still back here. Too shocked to look up the user or think anything more than "you are in the wrong place".
I'm almost finished with the "Merchants of Deception" book. The book is interesting, but I still have not been able to grasp why this would ever be something to consider joining. Even the "buy from yourself" draw that was used just does not make sense to me. How can you earn money by spending more money on items you "buy from yourself". And that's before dumping money into "motivational" tools.
I take it neither of you two have learned and bettered yourself through a bad experience? Yes, MLMs are super scammy and a bad financial decision for most people I think you would be naive to think it is impossible to better yourself through the experience of an MLM. Even as small as the realization you are horrible as a salesperson/recruiter and should find a career doing something else.
I am interested in hearing how their Amway experience bettered their lives and what they learned about themselves and money to lead them to FIRE.
Interesting that is what you got out of my post (the bolded). I just think the post was a bit too pro-MLM on a very anti-MLM thread.
The later post went into more depth.
-
Question... knowing Amway (and other MLMs) are scams - how did that experience and what you learned about yourself help you retire "early"? Certainly you didn't make any money with Amway. What did you gain from that experience that helped? Hoping this doesn't come across rude, but.... was it learning that losing money doesn't allow you to save money? I'm genuinely interested in knowing how Amway allowed you to retire "early".
Fair enough questions and I fully expected these kind of MMM perspectives. I'm not here to defend the MLM systems, but instead to provide my perspective on how I consider or 'rational' a positive from our experience. And I readily acknowledge that my experience may not match others.
If there was only one road to finding the path to FIRE or happiness, then sadly most of use would be truly screwed. I look at our Amway business period as one of many possible roads that I happened upon and chose to travel. The Amway support system was a learning environment which was lacking in my life. My AS, BS and MS with a Thesis certainly didn't teach me what I needed to do to reach FIRE. 8 years in nuclear submarines certainly didn't. So lets talk about the experience and learning's that helped me.
It's true, financially we didn't get rich. But we also didn't go broke or become desperate. We had a great support system (up-line) who always put our needs before the business. We 'learned' to budget and control our costs to allow us to participate in the program. We had a great time going places, meeting new people, expanding our awareness of life around us and what was possible. We 'learned' how to use the tax system work to our advantage and this in turn helped us to reduce our overall costs. My records show that over our 9 year active Amway period, we spent ~$14,800 and brought in ~$4,000. Hence a 'loss' of $10,800 over 9 yrs, or ~$1,200 yr. And this was before any tax write offs. To account for this loss, we adjusted vacation $$ to the business (and still got to travel), cut out cable extras, and 'learned' that we didn't need a new car every few years. To our surprise, despite the business not making us millionaires overnight, our year to year finances were slowly improving.
And while 'learning' during these 9 years, we were encouraged by our support group (up-line) to ramp up our savings, both in retirement and non-retirement accounts. This forced me to really 'learn' about my 401K plan, quickly realizing I was leaving money on the table, and that my investment selections were not optimal for our goals. A vast amount of the funds we saved during these 9 yrs went a long way to our FIRE in 2015.
One very important thing we 'learned' from the Amway business was about ourselves. I'll be honest, we were not in a good stable relationship. Couples therapy was just one long drawn out agony, not to mention the cost (which was more that $1,200 a year sometimes). And yes, it was tough trying to do the business and having marital issues. Slowly we started seeing changes in ourselves, and how we valued each others support and input. The time we spent together highlighted our faults but magnified our strengths and blessings. We included our kids as much as possible in the business trips, and they grew and strengthened as we got our relationship shit together. We recognized that we were blessed and worked hard to keep the positive improvements moving forward. Bumps in the road (even now) are cushioned by what we 'learned' in the system. The Amway support system came at the right time for us and we truly believe that without it, we would have divorced in a few short years. Divorce can ruin many chances of FIRE, and I know of many divorced friends, family and co-workers who have to post-pone their retirement goals due to the financial impact that it creates. Or as my wife likes to kid me now: I was too cheap to get divorced!
Shortly after 9/11, our Amway business suffered, we lost some great up-line (support), and our heart just wasn't in it anymore. We let the business limp on till around 2004 when we dropped out for good. We actively took what we had 'learned' about life, finances, dreams, and each other; and set new and exciting goals for ourselves. The Amway business/support system was our School of Hard Knocks, and it only cost us $10,800 for both of us. Compare that to a college degree these days. So from 2002 until FIRE in 2015 (4 years ahead of schedule), we became mini-mustaches without even knowing about MMM (until later).
In retrospect, from 1982 (married) to 1995 (joined Amway), we wasted/lost so much money from frequent bad new auto purchases, bad stock buys (get rich quick $5K Alaskan Apollo Gold Mines), over the top vacations, unnecessary luxury's (indoor hot tub), and poor retirement planning to name a few. Easily $4-6K yr. From 1995-2002 (active Amway period), we cut our expenses and only spent $1,400 yr investing in ourselves. We also improved our savings, saved our marriage and despite the struggle, can look back fondly on the good times we had. From 2002-2015, we became a lean mean saving machine. And we still made time and $$ for fun things to build upon. My wife was able to pursue her spiritual passion and became a pastor. She attributes the Amway experience to giving her the belief in herself and strength to complete the process. In 2015, the stars aligned and we went for it. All the pre-planning paid off, and here we are 4 years later, still financially secure, healthy and enjoying our retirement and all that it offers. It only took $10,800 of 'learning', 20 years of delayed gratification, and a lot of hard work.
Again, this was my path, my road to FIRE. Your mileage and experiences may vary. Would I do it again? Knowing what I know now, no. But how does one get to where they know what they know now without not knowing what they didn't know then?
I hope this reflection upon how I Amway'd, survived, and still FIRE'd provides the insight the dis-believers are seeking. Please stay classy with your comments and rebukes. And if you can't, at least include an emoji. Either way, that's my story and I'm sticking to it.
And to add fire to the FIRE, my darling wife and I will be celebrating our 37th anniversary this Oct at Walt Disney World (our happy place) using our DVC timeshare (oh the horror...) at Bay Lake Towers and our Annual Pass (women and children passing out)!! But.... before you flame me for such an anti-MMM frivolous spending behavior, I at least booked the lowest cost studio (very MMM) and the Annual Pass was bought 8 yrs ago (part of the plan) and has appreciated in value 79% so far (extreme MMM), which will make each park visit for our 30 days of visits at Disney only ~$14.40 per person (mind blown MMM).
PS - be sure to see the POMS movie with Diane Keaton this Mother's Day weekend. It was filmed in the 55+ community where we live now in Georgia. If the water volleyball footage makes it into the movie, I'm the one looking all buff and sexy! (and bald).
I just want to say kudos to you!
-
I hope this reflection upon how I Amway'd, survived, and still FIRE'd provides the insight the dis-believers are seeking. Please stay classy with your comments and rebukes. And if you can't, at least include an emoji. Either way, that's my story and I'm sticking to it.
First off, congratulations on being married for over 37 years! I hope you and your wife, on that October day, celebrated in style. Secondly, nicely done in getting to financial independence earlier than planned! (You've got me beat on both accounts, but I am over 20 years your younger.) And, I'm amazed you got out of [that abhorred MLM] as well off as you did!
So to summarize what you got from your time with Amway...
- you found a support network
- your needs were put before business
- you learned how to budget
- you learned how to work the tax system to your advantage
- you learned how to live on less
- your world expanded in traveling with Amway
- a $10,800 LOSS over 9 years.
I appreciate, and am amazed, at all of the positives you were able to take away from being involved with the Greatest Business Scam of all time - MLMs.
That said, time for two personal rabbit trails...
Rabbit trail #1 - Twelve years ago I dove into shallow water and broke my neck and my back. Horrible and tragic you say? Yeah I agree, it wasn't pretty. But there are many good things I've been able to take away from that trauma - the greatest being I know that I my life still has purpose (because for all intents and purposes, I should be paralyzed or dead) and I now have a greater empathy for my patients (I work in healthcare.)
Rabbit trail #2 - Ten years ago I proposed to my girlfriend of the time. She didn't give me a "yes" or "no". She wanted to think about it for a month before giving me an answer. Sucky much? Oh yeah! Exceptionally sucky! After that month, I was the one to break things off and move on. And there was so much good that came out of that situation - interpersonal growth, relationship growth, personal growth, etc.
And so I give you a couple of life experiences that show how I can relate - in how a really bad life situation can still bring forth some good. But do I ever wish upon someone a broken neck and back (physical tragedy) or a nasty failed relationship (relationship tragedy) so they can better understand, and not take for granted, good health and good relationships?! No, never! And so I am confident in saying that even though some good can come out of being involved with a MLM (I get tension in my shoulders and grit my teeth in typing this sentence out), I wouldn't wish an MLM on anyone. An MLM is a good way to make money, just as a broken neck is to good health; just as a non-answer to a marriage proposal is to a good relationship. This is all to say, in a very round about way, that not all paths are equally good in obtaining financial independence. From a purely monetary perspective, an MLM will only get you to FI if you are a founder of an MLM - but you would be just as well off to create and lead a religious cult, or build and own a casino (take money from the poor/needy/addicted) if ethics are of no concern to a person. [insert emoji :0] I think it does our society an injustice if MLMs are viewed in any kind of positive light/spin. This thread has it right - MLM's are the scrounge of our time and absolutely malicious.
Two questions peabody58:
1. What would your losses have looked like if you included the "tax write-offs"? I would suspect they would look MUCH worse?
2. Would you agree the MLM you were involved with was "cult-like"? (A quick Google search of "Amway cult" comes up with approx. 349,000 results and some of the reading on the topic is interesting to say the least.)
-
And an acquaintance is yet again blowing up my Facebook messenger box with MLM messages full of emoji. She hasn't contacted me about anything else for a couple of years. Seriously, do all MLMers take a course in random obnoxious emoji use?
-
A friend posted yesterday "If you could have a bill magically paid for you, which bill would it be?"
She got about 80 responses.
Today she tagged all those people in "talk to me about a sidegig with (her MLM) that will pay those bills you were all complaining about!"
Um, a side gig is not magic. I want a magical fairy to pay my daycare bill. But currently, my maingig does just fine covering it. I don't want a side gig with an MLM.
-
Either I skimmed poorly, or this wasn't posted.
The state of Washington is sueing LLR for being a pyramid scheme.
https://www.bizjournals.com/bizwomen/news/latest-news/2019/01/lawsuit-alleges-lularoe-pyramid-scheme-deceived.html?page=all
-
Either I skimmed poorly, or this wasn't posted.
The state of Washington is sueing LLR for being a pyramid scheme.
https://www.bizjournals.com/bizwomen/news/latest-news/2019/01/lawsuit-alleges-lularoe-pyramid-scheme-deceived.html?page=all
If it was going to be anyone, it was bound to be WA AG Bob Ferguson.
All the times he's sued Trump: https://www.thestranger.com/slog/2018/05/02/25970755/a-timeline-of-all-the-times-attorney-general-bob-ferguson-has-sued-trump
Sued Google and Facebook over campaign advertising disclosures: https://www.kpq.com/google-and-facebook-settle-suits-brought-washington-ag/
Sued a guy who perpetually throws BS in WA elections: https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/politics/ag-sues-tim-eyman-for-2m-says-he-profited-from-campaign-money/
-
And an acquaintance is yet again blowing up my Facebook messenger box with MLM messages full of emoji. She hasn't contacted me about anything else for a couple of years. Seriously, do all MLMers take a course in random obnoxious emoji use?
Yes.
-
For those of you watching the LuLaRoe Defective page on FB, it was shut down last week, due to "policy violations". The mods set up a 2.0 page, and it was immediately shut down as well. So, they have moved over to Reddit. Join the group at r/DefectiveDetectives, court case docs and all the other interesting screenshots are being uploaded.
-
I just unfollowed an acquaintance on Facebook and blocked direct messages because she's added a second MLM to her repertoire and has started sending emoji messages about that. No, I don't want to put weird stickers on my fingernails! Good grief. I didn't want them when my SIL was hawking Jamberry a few years ago, and I certainly don't want Color Street now.
-
I just unfollowed an acquaintance on Facebook and blocked direct messages because she's added a second MLM to her repertoire and has started sending emoji messages about that. No, I don't want to put weird stickers on my fingernails! Good grief. I didn't want them when my SIL was hawking Jamberry a few years ago, and I certainly don't want Color Street now.
As a kid, I'd put sticker s on my fingernails, of googly eyes, stars, any black stickers. My kids stickerize their nails. Weird stickers on adult fingernails? Hmmm... why didn't I think of peddling this idea first? Should have put more effort into creating a MLM sucker pipeline instead of saving and investing.
-
MLM a.k.a. sucker pipeline.
That is absolutely classic.
-
Funny MLM satire piece and the comments are golden!
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=2341694522727108&id=1752689034960996&ref=m_notif¬if_t=feedback_reaction_generic (https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=2341694522727108&id=1752689034960996&ref=m_notif¬if_t=feedback_reaction_generic)
-
Oh no one of my church friends has gotten sucked in to an MLM I haven't heard of before. Anybody heard of these...
"Smart coffee?"
"Happy coffee?"
"Elevacity?"
Now all my weak-minded church friends are getting sucked in. Oh noooooo...
My husband was looking at the many, many facebook posts with me. At first I thought it was maybe something legit? Because coffee? He's like, oh, that's another scammy MLM.
Are you sure?
OF COURSE IT'S A SCAMMY MLM!
Then he went off..."I think I'd rather my wife have an addiction to gambling than be an MLM person. At least with gambling it's fun and maybe you might win some money at some point..."
-
Then he went off..."I think I'd rather my wife have an addiction to gambling than be an MLM person. At least with gambling it's fun and maybe you might win some money at some point..."
Quote of the day. Your husband is totally right. Plus, you don't annoy all your friends with a gambling addition.
Of course, a gambling addiction is nothing to make light of, but he has a point.
-
Oh no one of my church friends has gotten sucked in to an MLM I haven't heard of before. Anybody heard of these...
"Smart coffee?"
"Happy coffee?"
"Elevacity?"
Now all my weak-minded church friends are getting sucked in. Oh noooooo...
My husband was looking at the many, many facebook posts with me. At first I thought it was maybe something legit? Because coffee? He's like, oh, that's another scammy MLM.
Are you sure?
OF COURSE IT'S A SCAMMY MLM!
Then he went off..."I think I'd rather my wife have an addiction to gambling than be an MLM person. At least with gambling it's fun and maybe you might win some money at some point..."
Shame on you! It's MAGIC COFFEE. And it's for weight loss. And it's amazing.
RIGHT NOW IS THE TIME TO GET IN! It's in the early stages. THAT'S WHEN YOU MAKE MONEY (ya know, cuz you are at the top of the pyramid). AND IT'S MAGIC.
Also: it's basically speed. It took some sleuthing. Because "I'll PM you" and all that. But with looking at pictures long enough, and enlarging, and googling, I was able to find the name of the company and product. Google the ingredients. Yes, it's awesome for weight loss when diet and exercise didn't work, because it's speed. It's an appetite suppressant. You aren't eating ice cream before bed. Who knew!
-
Then he went off..."I think I'd rather my wife have an addiction to gambling than be an MLM person. At least with gambling it's fun and maybe you might win some money at some point..."
Quote of the day. Your husband is totally right. Plus, you don't annoy all your friends with a gambling addition.
Of course, a gambling addiction is nothing to make light of, but he has a point.
And the casino will comp you a buffet once in a while. Try getting a free meal out of HerbaLife.
-
Oh no one of my church friends has gotten sucked in to an MLM I haven't heard of before. Anybody heard of these...
"Smart coffee?"
"Happy coffee?"
"Elevacity?"
Now all my weak-minded church friends are getting sucked in. Oh noooooo...
My husband was looking at the many, many facebook posts with me. At first I thought it was maybe something legit? Because coffee? He's like, oh, that's another scammy MLM.
Are you sure?
OF COURSE IT'S A SCAMMY MLM!
Then he went off..."I think I'd rather my wife have an addiction to gambling than be an MLM person. At least with gambling it's fun and maybe you might win some money at some point..."
Shame on you! It's MAGIC COFFEE. And it's for weight loss. And it's amazing.
RIGHT NOW IS THE TIME TO GET IN! It's in the early stages. THAT'S WHEN YOU MAKE MONEY (ya know, cuz you are at the top of the pyramid). AND IT'S MAGIC.
Also: it's basically speed. It took some sleuthing. Because "I'll PM you" and all that. But with looking at pictures long enough, and enlarging, and googling, I was able to find the name of the company and product. Google the ingredients. Yes, it's awesome for weight loss when diet and exercise didn't work, because it's speed. It's an appetite suppressant. You aren't eating ice cream before bed. Who knew!
Oh. Oh my God. You're kidding me. She posts a picture of her falling numbers as she stands on a scale every single day. Also keeps posting about how she has so much energy. Good lord. How will I restrain myself from commenting on this? Good friends of mine are inquiring about this product directly on her posts! I think I have to start PMing my friends.
-
mm1970 Can you post a link or ingredient list that EnglishteacherAlex can use to build a FB post reply directly on the friend's page?
Ugh. So many diet aids in the US are banned in Canada, due to different labelling laws, and it is for a good reason. Remember the diet teas in the 80's and 90's that caused so many people to pass out and end up at the hospital?
-
OMG! I just looked up elevacity... it states, multiple times, that the company's / product's mission is to "elevate your health, wealth and happiness". BAM. Right in their mission / opening sales pitch they are outright saying that the product is a business structure, not a diet aid.
I did not realize MLM's were so bold about it not being about the product.
ETA:
Ingredients list reveal this to be a mix of Highly concentrated Caffiene, MSG, Speed, and a couple other minor ingredients for anti-microbial, anti-oxidant, memory and fat burning (questionable).
Ingredients: [paraphrased]
[CAFFIENE], [CAFFIENE], [CAFFIENE], Canola Lecithin (food additive to emulsify / blend ingredients), [CAFFIENE], L-Theanine (acts like a glutamate such as MSG on your systems), PEA (Beta Phenylethylamine HCL) [see below], [CAFFIENE], Kigelia Africana Extract [anti-microbial?], A-GPC (Alpha-Glyceryl Phosphoryl Choline)[memory supplement], [Highly concentrated CAFFIENE powder], Juglans Regia Extract [a natural source of Octodrine from walnut bark, chemically similar to ephedrine and DMAA which are controlled in most countries. it is a psychoactive central nervous system stimulant ], Chromium Polynicotinate.Xanthohumol extract [insulin active, reasonably safe], Tumeric Root Extract, (95% Curcuminoids), [CAFFIENE] 3’3’Diindolmethane [may act like estrogen], Phosphatidyl Choline [possibly safe, maybe breaks down fat, mixed scientific results]
From WebMB.. I only checked the first two additive ingredients that I did not recognize, and got this..
Phenethylamine is POSSIBLY UNSAFE for most people when taken by mouth appropriately. Phenethylamine works similar to the drug amphetamine, and may cause similar side effects. Also, it might cause rapid heart rate, anxiety, or agitation.
Special Precautions & Warnings:
Bipolar disorder: Use of phenethylamine might cause people with bipolar disorder to convert from depression to mania.
Schizophrenia: Use of phenethylamine might worsen symptoms of schizophrenia, including hallucinations or delusions.
Surgery: Phenethylamine might affect the central nervous system. This could interfere with surgery. Stop taking phenethylamine at least 2 weeks before a scheduled surgery.
-
mm1970 Can you post a link or ingredient list that EnglishteacherAlex can use to build a FB post reply directly on the friend's page?
Ugh. So many diet aids in the US are banned in Canada, due to different labelling laws, and it is for a good reason. Remember the diet teas in the 80's and 90's that caused so many people to pass out and end up at the hospital?
Don't recall any special teas, but my mother bought a huge bottle of pills that were supposed to enlarge and take up space in the stomach. Thankfully that gimmick didn't last long when it was revealed people were being suffocated when the pills activated too soon.
-
Geez Goldilocks. Just...I'm speechless.
Do I talk to this woman directly? We're acquaintances; I wouldn't say we're friends. Definitely going to talk to my friends who have been expressing interest...
-
Geez Goldilocks. Just...I'm speechless.
Do I talk to this woman directly? We're acquaintances; I wouldn't say we're friends. Definitely going to talk to my friends who have been expressing interest...
I think I would indeed let her know (one on one) about the aphetamine in it, if she is currently consuming it. I wouldn't want my worst enemy drinking that without knowing.
-
Phenethylamine is POSSIBLY UNSAFE for most people when taken by mouth appropriately. Phenethylamine works similar to the drug amphetamine, and may cause similar side effects. Also, it might cause rapid heart rate, anxiety, or agitation.
...
Schizophrenia: Use of phenethylamine might worsen symptoms of schizophrenia, including hallucinations or delusions.
I don't see what the problem is about Schizophrenia but the voices tell me it's not natural...
-
Also: it's basically speed. It took some sleuthing. Because "I'll PM you" and all that. But with looking at pictures long enough, and enlarging, and googling, I was able to find the name of the company and product. Google the ingredients. Yes, it's awesome for weight loss when diet and exercise didn't work, because it's speed. It's an appetite suppressant. You aren't eating ice cream before bed. Who knew!
This reminded me of an overheard at work story, at a spice and tea shop.
Owner to Customer: Can I help you find something.
Customer: Yes, I’m looking for the kind of tea that makes you loose weight.
Owner: Uhhh, I’ve never heard of a tea used for that, there can be some other health benefits...
Customer: My friend started drinking this tea and she’s lost a bunch of weight, but I don’t remember what kind.
Owner: How about I list some common ones and you can tell me if it sounds familiar. (Begins listing)
Customer (impatiently): No I don’t remember the name, but she said she drinks this tea every night instead of ice cream, and now she’s lost like 10lbs in a month!
Long pause
Owner: Well, have you considered that maybe she lost weight because she stopped eating ice cream every night?
Customer: Oh! (Shocked pause) I bet you’re right. Huh. Why didn’t she just say that!
Owner: On the bright side, now you can get whatever kind of tea you like, what’s flavors do you like?
-
Great story, and very appropriate to your username, Peachtea! Thank you!
-
Phenethylamine is POSSIBLY UNSAFE for most people when taken by mouth appropriately. Phenethylamine works similar to the drug amphetamine, and may cause similar side effects. Also, it might cause rapid heart rate, anxiety, or agitation.
...
Schizophrenia: Use of phenethylamine might worsen symptoms of schizophrenia, including hallucinations or delusions.
I don't see what the problem is about Schizophrenia but the voices tell me it's not natural...
Not an MLM, but...
My aunt has long lasting heart problems from phen-phen. She says she'd totally be willing to knowingly shorten her life and make the problems more severe if she could take it again. She'd rather be skinny
-
Geez Goldilocks. Just...I'm speechless.
Do I talk to this woman directly? We're acquaintances; I wouldn't say we're friends. Definitely going to talk to my friends who have been expressing interest...
@englishteacheralex I think educating people regarding how malicious MLMs are is important. However, to try to educate someone who sells MLM products is a losing battle. The way these companies work is cultish. Sellers are told to ignore negativity, and are pushed the MLM ideology. I wish numbers and logic would be enough to educate, but it usually isn't.
If you were to communicate what @Goldilocks did so well in researching, I guarantee that it wouldn't be well received. I'd love to be proved wrong in this!
-
Also: it's basically speed. It took some sleuthing. Because "I'll PM you" and all that. But with looking at pictures long enough, and enlarging, and googling, I was able to find the name of the company and product. Google the ingredients. Yes, it's awesome for weight loss when diet and exercise didn't work, because it's speed. It's an appetite suppressant. You aren't eating ice cream before bed. Who knew!
This reminded me of an overheard at work story, at a spice and tea shop.
Owner to Customer: Can I help you find something.
Customer: Yes, I’m looking for the kind of tea that makes you loose weight.
Owner: Uhhh, I’ve never heard of a tea used for that, there can be some other health benefits...
Customer: My friend started drinking this tea and she’s lost a bunch of weight, but I don’t remember what kind.
Owner: How about I list some common ones and you can tell me if it sounds familiar. (Begins listing)
Customer (impatiently): No I don’t remember the name, but she said she drinks this tea every night instead of ice cream, and now she’s lost like 10lbs in a month!
Long pause
Owner: Well, have you considered that maybe she lost weight because she stopped eating ice cream every night?
Customer: Oh! (Shocked pause) I bet you’re right. Huh. Why didn’t she just say that!
Owner: On the bright side, now you can get whatever kind of tea you like, what’s flavors do you like?
Pretty much my reaction any time someone mentions a drink, pill, or diet with a proper name that claims to be the cure-all for disease or being overweight.
"You know what you're describing sounds an awful lot like simply not eating."
-
mm1970 Can you post a link or ingredient list that EnglishteacherAlex can use to build a FB post reply directly on the friend's page?
Ugh. So many diet aids in the US are banned in Canada, due to different labelling laws, and it is for a good reason. Remember the diet teas in the 80's and 90's that caused so many people to pass out and end up at the hospital?
I'm not 100% sure, but I think the person I know is hawking Revital U. (You know, just by stalking the photos and and googling.) Found this on Reddit (just based on some photos on FB).
https://www.reddit.com/r/antiMLM/comments/75ka2s/revital_u_brew_who_are_they_and_wtf_are_they/
-
I just talked to a friend who goes to my church about whether or not to say anything to "Smart Coffee" lady.
He said I should ask her if I can get a dime bag of the coffee from her for the weekend because I have so many papers to grade and I just need something to get me through them.
Ha!
Except she might take me seriously...
-
Geez Goldilocks. Just...I'm speechless.
Do I talk to this woman directly? We're acquaintances; I wouldn't say we're friends. Definitely going to talk to my friends who have been expressing interest...
@englishteacheralex I think educating people regarding how malicious MLMs are is important. However, to try to educate someone who sells MLM products is a losing battle. The way these companies work is cultish. Sellers are told to ignore negativity, and are pushed the MLM ideology. I wish numbers and logic would be enough to educate, but it usually isn't.
If you were to communicate what @Goldilocks did so well in researching, I guarantee that it wouldn't be well received. I'd love to be proved wrong in this!
True! (about not being received well), but how could you go on letting someone risk themselves without giving a fair warning?
-
Great story, and very appropriate to your username, Peachtea! Thank you!
Thanks! The story and username are funny coincidences as it’s actually my MILs overheard at work story (but was so good it really stuck with me) and I picked my username based on what was sitting in front of me at the time (real creative, I know).
-
OMG! I just looked up elevacity... it states, multiple times, that the company's / product's mission is to "elevate your health, wealth and happiness". BAM. Right in their mission / opening sales pitch they are outright saying that the product is a business structure, not a diet aid.
I did not realize MLM's were so bold about it not being about the product.
ETA:
Ingredients list reveal this to be a mix of Highly concentrated Caffiene, MSG, Speed, and a couple other minor ingredients for anti-microbial, anti-oxidant, memory and fat burning (questionable).
Ingredients: [paraphrased]
[CAFFIENE], [CAFFIENE], [CAFFIENE], Canola Lecithin (food additive to emulsify / blend ingredients), [CAFFIENE], L-Theanine (acts like a glutamate such as MSG on your systems), PEA (Beta Phenylethylamine HCL) [see below], [CAFFIENE], Kigelia Africana Extract [anti-microbial?], A-GPC (Alpha-Glyceryl Phosphoryl Choline)[memory supplement], [Highly concentrated CAFFIENE powder], Juglans Regia Extract [a natural source of Octodrine from walnut bark, chemically similar to ephedrine and DMAA which are controlled in most countries. it is a psychoactive central nervous system stimulant ], Chromium Polynicotinate.Xanthohumol extract [insulin active, reasonably safe], Tumeric Root Extract, (95% Curcuminoids), [CAFFIENE] 3’3’Diindolmethane [may act like estrogen], Phosphatidyl Choline [possibly safe, maybe breaks down fat, mixed scientific results]
From WebMB.. I only checked the first two additive ingredients that I did not recognize, and got this..
Phenethylamine is POSSIBLY UNSAFE for most people when taken by mouth appropriately. Phenethylamine works similar to the drug amphetamine, and may cause similar side effects. Also, it might cause rapid heart rate, anxiety, or agitation.
Special Precautions & Warnings:
Bipolar disorder: Use of phenethylamine might cause people with bipolar disorder to convert from depression to mania.
Schizophrenia: Use of phenethylamine might worsen symptoms of schizophrenia, including hallucinations or delusions.
Surgery: Phenethylamine might affect the central nervous system. This could interfere with surgery. Stop taking phenethylamine at least 2 weeks before a scheduled surgery.
ETA: I was mistaken as to which drug we were talking about and was corrected further down-thread. Fenethylline and Phenethylline are different compounds within the same drug family, and I thought of the wrong one.
I find this post crazy to see, as I'm a forensic toxicologist who recently did a research project regarding Fenethylline (I'm not sure why America and Europe can't agree on ph vs f, we have the same deal with amphetamine vs amfetamine, but I digress...).
Somethings to note:
1. I've only seen this come up in recent times in a few news articles claiming that Syrian soldiers were taking fenethylline for its stimulatory properties. Fenethylline being used as a diet aid is a relatively interesting idea, but amphetamines and related compounds were used in the past for the same purpose.
2. The reason why fenethylline "works similar to" amphetamine is its actually a prodrug for amphetamine. Meaning when you take fenethylline, your body breaks it down to form amphetamine. One research paper suggested that fenethylline might have its own activity at receptor sites, but this has not been proven with recent models (and I found their evidence pretty meh).
3. The structure of fenethylline is essentially amphetamine and theophylline (which is very structurally similar to caffeine) connected by a two-carbon chain. Metabolites from our study included amphetamine (and further metabolites from that) and theophylline derivatives (and further metabolites, etc)
4. The AMOUNT of what you take is generally what makes an item harmful. I doubt that this diet pill has any fenethylline at all (via a different research paper I had to read, regarding how all of the fenethylline pills they tested actually didn't have fenethylline at all... but this was random street seizures in the middle east and not a "reputable" (?) MLM diet pill) and even if it did, I'd doubt that it would have enough fenethylline to cause an effect beyond what you could do to yourself via having some Ritalin and a cup of coffee.
-
OMG! I just looked up elevacity... it states, multiple times, that the company's / product's mission is to "elevate your health, wealth and happiness". BAM. Right in their mission / opening sales pitch they are outright saying that the product is a business structure, not a diet aid.
I did not realize MLM's were so bold about it not being about the product.
ETA:
Ingredients list reveal this to be a mix of Highly concentrated Caffiene, MSG, Speed, and a couple other minor ingredients for anti-microbial, anti-oxidant, memory and fat burning (questionable).
Ingredients: [paraphrased]
[CAFFIENE], [CAFFIENE], [CAFFIENE], Canola Lecithin (food additive to emulsify / blend ingredients), [CAFFIENE], L-Theanine (acts like a glutamate such as MSG on your systems), PEA (Beta Phenylethylamine HCL) [see below], [CAFFIENE], Kigelia Africana Extract [anti-microbial?], A-GPC (Alpha-Glyceryl Phosphoryl Choline)[memory supplement], [Highly concentrated CAFFIENE powder], Juglans Regia Extract [a natural source of Octodrine from walnut bark, chemically similar to ephedrine and DMAA which are controlled in most countries. it is a psychoactive central nervous system stimulant ], Chromium Polynicotinate.Xanthohumol extract [insulin active, reasonably safe], Tumeric Root Extract, (95% Curcuminoids), [CAFFIENE] 3’3’Diindolmethane [may act like estrogen], Phosphatidyl Choline [possibly safe, maybe breaks down fat, mixed scientific results]
From WebMB.. I only checked the first two additive ingredients that I did not recognize, and got this..
Phenethylamine is POSSIBLY UNSAFE for most people when taken by mouth appropriately. Phenethylamine works similar to the drug amphetamine, and may cause similar side effects. Also, it might cause rapid heart rate, anxiety, or agitation.
Special Precautions & Warnings:
Bipolar disorder: Use of phenethylamine might cause people with bipolar disorder to convert from depression to mania.
Schizophrenia: Use of phenethylamine might worsen symptoms of schizophrenia, including hallucinations or delusions.
Surgery: Phenethylamine might affect the central nervous system. This could interfere with surgery. Stop taking phenethylamine at least 2 weeks before a scheduled surgery.
I find this post crazy to see, as I'm a forensic toxicologist who recently did a research project regarding Fenethylline (I'm not sure why America and Europe can't agree on ph vs f, we have the same deal with amphetamine vs amfetamine, but I digress...).
Somethings to note:
1. I've only seen this come up in recent times in a few news articles claiming that Syrian soldiers were taking fenethylline for its stimulatory properties. Fenethylline being used as a diet aid is a relatively interesting idea, but amphetamines and related compounds were used in the past for the same purpose.
2. The reason why fenethylline "works similar to" amphetamine is its actually a prodrug for amphetamine. Meaning when you take fenethylline, your body breaks it down to form amphetamine. One research paper suggested that fenethylline might have its own activity at receptor sites, but this has not been proven with recent models (and I found their evidence pretty meh).
3. The structure of fenethylline is essentially amphetamine and theophylline (which is very structurally similar to caffeine) connected by a two-carbon chain. Metabolites from our study included amphetamine (and further metabolites from that) and theophylline derivatives (and further metabolites, etc)
4. The AMOUNT of what you take is generally what makes an item harmful. I doubt that this diet pill has any fenethylline at all (via a different research paper I had to read, regarding how all of the fenethylline pills they tested actually didn't have fenethylline at all... but this was random street seizures in the middle east and not a "reputable" (?) MLM diet pill) and even if it did, I'd doubt that it would have enough fenethylline to cause an effect beyond what you could do to yourself via having some Ritalin and a cup of coffee.
That sounds relatively harmless for a healthy person who uses the MLM product in accordance with the instructions.
How many MLM members are healthy, and how many are likely to abuse the product? I think the Venn diagram showing those intersecting circles would represent the set of people at risk.
-
OMG! I just looked up elevacity... it states, multiple times, that the company's / product's mission is to "elevate your health, wealth and happiness". BAM. Right in their mission / opening sales pitch they are outright saying that the product is a business structure, not a diet aid.
I did not realize MLM's were so bold about it not being about the product.
ETA:
Ingredients list reveal this to be a mix of Highly concentrated Caffiene, MSG, Speed, and a couple other minor ingredients for anti-microbial, anti-oxidant, memory and fat burning (questionable).
Ingredients: [paraphrased]
[CAFFIENE], [CAFFIENE], [CAFFIENE], Canola Lecithin (food additive to emulsify / blend ingredients), [CAFFIENE], L-Theanine (acts like a glutamate such as MSG on your systems), PEA (Beta Phenylethylamine HCL) [see below], [CAFFIENE], Kigelia Africana Extract [anti-microbial?], A-GPC (Alpha-Glyceryl Phosphoryl Choline)[memory supplement], [Highly concentrated CAFFIENE powder], Juglans Regia Extract [a natural source of Octodrine from walnut bark, chemically similar to ephedrine and DMAA which are controlled in most countries. it is a psychoactive central nervous system stimulant ], Chromium Polynicotinate.Xanthohumol extract [insulin active, reasonably safe], Tumeric Root Extract, (95% Curcuminoids), [CAFFIENE] 3’3’Diindolmethane [may act like estrogen], Phosphatidyl Choline [possibly safe, maybe breaks down fat, mixed scientific results]
From WebMB.. I only checked the first two additive ingredients that I did not recognize, and got this..
Phenethylamine is POSSIBLY UNSAFE for most people when taken by mouth appropriately. Phenethylamine works similar to the drug amphetamine, and may cause similar side effects. Also, it might cause rapid heart rate, anxiety, or agitation.
Special Precautions & Warnings:
Bipolar disorder: Use of phenethylamine might cause people with bipolar disorder to convert from depression to mania.
Schizophrenia: Use of phenethylamine might worsen symptoms of schizophrenia, including hallucinations or delusions.
Surgery: Phenethylamine might affect the central nervous system. This could interfere with surgery. Stop taking phenethylamine at least 2 weeks before a scheduled surgery.
I find this post crazy to see, as I'm a forensic toxicologist who recently did a research project regarding Fenethylline (I'm not sure why America and Europe can't agree on ph vs f, we have the same deal with amphetamine vs amfetamine, but I digress...).
Somethings to note:
1. I've only seen this come up in recent times in a few news articles claiming that Syrian soldiers were taking fenethylline for its stimulatory properties. Fenethylline being used as a diet aid is a relatively interesting idea, but amphetamines and related compounds were used in the past for the same purpose.
2. The reason why fenethylline "works similar to" amphetamine is its actually a prodrug for amphetamine. Meaning when you take fenethylline, your body breaks it down to form amphetamine. One research paper suggested that fenethylline might have its own activity at receptor sites, but this has not been proven with recent models (and I found their evidence pretty meh).
3. The structure of fenethylline is essentially amphetamine and theophylline (which is very structurally similar to caffeine) connected by a two-carbon chain. Metabolites from our study included amphetamine (and further metabolites from that) and theophylline derivatives (and further metabolites, etc)
4. The AMOUNT of what you take is generally what makes an item harmful. I doubt that this diet pill has any fenethylline at all (via a different research paper I had to read, regarding how all of the fenethylline pills they tested actually didn't have fenethylline at all... but this was random street seizures in the middle east and not a "reputable" (?) MLM diet pill) and even if it did, I'd doubt that it would have enough fenethylline to cause an effect beyond what you could do to yourself via having some Ritalin and a cup of coffee.
That sounds relatively harmless for a healthy person who uses the MLM product in accordance with the instructions.
How many MLM members are healthy, and how many are likely to abuse the product? I think the Venn diagram showing those intersecting circles would represent the set of people at risk.
Very true. I just get tired with people who take a "oh my gosh, I can't pronounce the name of this drug, therefore I'm going to die if it just touches me" fear mongering. But on the other hand, this does not mean throw all caution to the wind and take/eat/drink ridiculous amounts beyond whats recommended. Like pretty much everything in life, (and you hit the nail on the head Grim) moderation is key, and there are subsets of people in every population where a drug can have a greater effect on one individual vs another, or they could be more predisposed to abuse than someone else for various environmental/natural preconditions.
-
Yeah, I did my own googling and to me it seemed like one of those products that I would never take but which is maybe not that big a deal? It's not Fen-Phen; googling revealed that that's a different thing.
So I emailed the ingredients info to my friend who was posting on the acquaintance's thread, and the friend said she was just curious because the acquaintance seemed to be exhibiting some of the same behaviors as the friend's meth-addicted clients (my friend is a social worker) and she was wondering what the heck was up.
Anyway...I'm pretty sure I'm not going to intentionally do anything else about this, but it's the freakiest MLM product I've come across.
-
Yeah, I did my own googling and to me it seemed like one of those products that I would never take but which is maybe not that big a deal? It's not Fen-Phen; googling revealed that that's a different thing.
Yep, apologizes, I stand corrected on which drug we're specifically talking about, but we're still in the same drug family with similar effects.
-
Yeah, I did my own googling and to me it seemed like one of those products that I would never take but which is maybe not that big a deal? It's not Fen-Phen; googling revealed that that's a different thing.
So I emailed the ingredients info to my friend who was posting on the acquaintance's thread, and the friend said she was just curious because the acquaintance seemed to be exhibiting some of the same behaviors as the friend's meth-addicted clients (my friend is a social worker) and she was wondering what the heck was up.
Anyway...I'm pretty sure I'm not going to intentionally do anything else about this, but it's the freakiest MLM product I've come across.
LOL (really, I made my DD look up from her phone) --- You know, the "training" on how to effectively recruit for your MLM team would look a bit similar to the meth addicted clients' behaviours, but when you supercharge it with massive does of caffiene and a bit of amphetamine pro-drugs.... I can only imagine what your friend's FB and inbox look to be on the receiving end of this MLM marketing push.
-
Went to the local home show yesterday, saw the booth with skinny coffee only told my mom it was a MLM instead of the people at the booth.
-
Saw someone selling these on a Facebook group. Perfect for any pyramid-type essential oil sales gig.
-
An actual pyramid for storing your MLM quack oil?! That's too perfect.
-
And even the rack lacks efficiency. Look at all that wasted space along the edges!
-
And even the rack lacks efficiency. Look at all that wasted space along the edges!
Not at all, it's actually the most efficient shape for upstream flow. Unleash the power of the pyramid!
-
You know what makes amazing "zero waste" tissues (aka hankerchiefs, but I keep boxes of them around the house and only use each one once, then wash)
LLR leggings. They are buttery soft...
I got a huge bag of God awful patterns on buy nothing, so I filled up a few more tissue boxes for rooms that don't have them.
They are all a but worn, so hoping they don't pill too badly in the wash.
-
I went to a Stella & Dot Party. I bought something. I'm donating it to a fund raising event. Will my life ever be the same?
-
You know what makes amazing "zero waste" tissues (aka hankerchiefs, but I keep boxes of them around the house and only use each one once, then wash)
LLR leggings. They are buttery soft...
I got a huge bag of God awful patterns on buy nothing, so I filled up a few more tissue boxes for rooms that don't have them.
They are all a but worn, so hoping they don't pill too badly in the wash.
Oooh, that's a great idea! I bet they'd be good for baby things, too. My sister has a bunch of soft leggings (LLR or not) that she keeps wearing through the thighs on (she's a bodybuilder and her legs are INSANE) - maybe I'll ask her for them.
-
You know what makes amazing "zero waste" tissues (aka hankerchiefs, but I keep boxes of them around the house and only use each one once, then wash)
LLR leggings. They are buttery soft...
I got a huge bag of God awful patterns on buy nothing, so I filled up a few more tissue boxes for rooms that don't have them.
They are all a but worn, so hoping they don't pill too badly in the wash.
Oooh, that's a great idea! I bet they'd be good for baby things, too. My sister has a bunch of soft leggings (LLR or not) that she keeps wearing through the thighs on (she's a bodybuilder and her legs are INSANE) - maybe I'll ask her for them.
Baby tissues was why I went to reusable tissues. Even the softest store bought one cause a runny nose to get red and roughed up. Now I prefer them too. DH, who is less of a tree hugger, thinks they are gross- but oddly, has a hankerchief he carries in the winter. LOL
-
You know what makes amazing "zero waste" tissues (aka hankerchiefs, but I keep boxes of them around the house and only use each one once, then wash)
LLR leggings. They are buttery soft...
I got a huge bag of God awful patterns on buy nothing, so I filled up a few more tissue boxes for rooms that don't have them.
They are all a but worn, so hoping they don't pill too badly in the wash.
Oooh, that's a great idea! I bet they'd be good for baby things, too. My sister has a bunch of soft leggings (LLR or not) that she keeps wearing through the thighs on (she's a bodybuilder and her legs are INSANE) - maybe I'll ask her for them.
Baby tissues was why I went to reusable tissues. Even the softest store bought one cause a runny nose to get red and roughed up. Now I prefer them too. DH, who is less of a tree hugger, thinks they are gross- but oddly, has a hankerchief he carries in the winter. LOL
Haha, that's EXACTLY what happened to us. We started using our reusable wipes as tissues as our toddler potty trained, and I use them too, but the leggings material would be much much softer. DH also prefers regular Kleenex type tissues, but carries a handkerchief all the time "just for wiping", no blowing :)
-
My favorite peddler of overpriced protein powder just posted her "money saving" weekly grocery plan. This includes:
meal kit delivery
$100 per week(!!!) on their shakes and other nutritional products
InstaCart grocery delivery
Total cost for a family of 3 is $250 per week(!!), but this "saves them money" because they're not tempted to get takeout or delivery.
I'm skeptical...
-
My favorite peddler of overpriced protein powder just posted her "money saving" weekly grocery plan. This includes:
meal kit delivery
$100 per week(!!!) on their shakes and other nutritional products
InstaCart grocery delivery
Total cost for a family of 3 is $250 per week(!!), but this "saves them money" because they're not tempted to get takeout or delivery.
I'm skeptical...
Wow. We feed our family of eight very well on that amount.
-
My favorite peddler of overpriced protein powder just posted her "money saving" weekly grocery plan. This includes:
meal kit delivery
$100 per week(!!!) on their shakes and other nutritional products
InstaCart grocery delivery
Total cost for a family of 3 is $250 per week(!!), but this "saves them money" because they're not tempted to get takeout or delivery.
I'm skeptical...
That is a lot of money per week, even in my (very) spending days we never got close to that amount, and we ate like kings plus I have a food hoarding tendency (working on it). Though I guess "saving money" is very perspective dependent. If they were spending $300 per week, then they are technically saving $50/week (more likely they are blowing it on something else).
-
Then he went off..."I think I'd rather my wife have an addiction to gambling than be an MLM person. At least with gambling it's fun and maybe you might win some money at some point..."
Quote of the day. Your husband is totally right. Plus, you don't annoy all your friends with a gambling addition.
Of course, a gambling addiction is nothing to make light of, but he has a point.
I used to deal with pro athletes frequently. Several mentioned the danger of having a stay-at-home wife (as most did given their incomes) who wanted to start her own business. After all, she saw the success of her husband (totally unrelated, of course), was living large herself, and figured that she had what it took to be successful as a businesswoman. One guy told me he told his wife to take an additional $10,000 a month and do whatever she wanted if she would not start a business. He had seen too many of his teammates's wives lose six- and even seven figures with their "businesses."
-
Today I discovered* that being a member of an MLM is explicitly called out as a fireable offense at my company.
* I was looking through the rules of employment to see what steps I'd need to follow the day I decide to quit
-
Today I discovered* that being a member of an MLM is explicitly called out as a fireable offense at my company.
This is understandable, considering how disruptive MLM marketers can be in the workplace (not to mention the amount of company time they spend on their "business").
-
Today I discovered* that being a member of an MLM is explicitly called out as a fireable offense at my company.
* I was looking through the rules of employment to see what steps I'd need to follow the day I decide to quit
Wow- that's insane. I wonder if it is enforceable. Lots of people are "discount only" in companies, and never sell to anyone else. So could it even be considered moonlighting?
-
Thanks to this thread I am now familiar with the brand Luluroe (or however it is spelled). I was searching on ThredUp recently and came across a bunch of their leggings. Hot damn, they are shockingly ugly. I’d be willing to give them a try at $9 each if they came in solid black or dark gray. Shocking colors in strange, large patterns? Do people really wear this stuff?
-
Do people really wear this stuff?
They do, and it's horrible! Unless you are 7 years old, I really don't recommend walking around in leggings with snowmen on your butt.
-
Thanks to this thread I am now familiar with the brand Luluroe (or however it is spelled). I was searching on ThredUp recently and came across a bunch of their leggings. Hot damn, they are shockingly ugly. I’d be willing to give them a try at $9 each if they came in solid black or dark gray. Shocking colors in strange, large patterns? Do people really wear this stuff?
Very popular in Iowa.
I wear them* when pregnant, and hope people excuse the ridiculous pattern due to the gigantic belly that won't fit into anything else.
*But only because people gave them to me for free. I'm a big fan of free :)
-
Thanks to this thread I am now familiar with the brand Luluroe (or however it is spelled). I was searching on ThredUp recently and came across a bunch of their leggings. Hot damn, they are shockingly ugly. I’d be willing to give them a try at $9 each if they came in solid black or dark gray. Shocking colors in strange, large patterns? Do people really wear this stuff?
Very popular in Iowa.
I wear them* when pregnant, and hope people excuse the ridiculous pattern due to the gigantic belly that won't fit into anything else.
*But only because people gave them to me for free. I'm a big fan of free :)
This begs the question, do you wear them often ;)
-
Thanks to this thread I am now familiar with the brand Luluroe (or however it is spelled). I was searching on ThredUp recently and came across a bunch of their leggings. Hot damn, they are shockingly ugly. I’d be willing to give them a try at $9 each if they came in solid black or dark gray. Shocking colors in strange, large patterns? Do people really wear this stuff?
Very popular in Iowa.
I wear them* when pregnant, and hope people excuse the ridiculous pattern due to the gigantic belly that won't fit into anything else.
*But only because people gave them to me for free. I'm a big fan of free :)
In real life I almost never wear patterns.
In pregnancy I do because, like you, I am a big fan of free.
-
Thanks to this thread I am now familiar with the brand Luluroe (or however it is spelled). I was searching on ThredUp recently and came across a bunch of their leggings. Hot damn, they are shockingly ugly. I’d be willing to give them a try at $9 each if they came in solid black or dark gray. Shocking colors in strange, large patterns? Do people really wear this stuff?
Very popular in Iowa.
I wear them* when pregnant, and hope people excuse the ridiculous pattern due to the gigantic belly that won't fit into anything else.
*But only because people gave them to me for free. I'm a big fan of free :)
This begs the question, do you wear them often ;)
Pretty much every day in my third trimester when I get home from work, and every weekend. So I spend a lot of time running around in god-awful pants, because they are SO much more comfortable on the stomach than any maternity panel. And I'm not buying maternity leggings.
I also gave away the 3 pairs I had last pregnancy, and then got 4 new (free) pairs this pregnancy.
So really, despite the fact that I still see LLR all over the mall and grocery store, people are giving this stuff away by the truck load.
-
Maybe that explains why there are a bazillion pairs for sale on ThredUP for $9.
-
This turned up on my news feed today:
https://www.patheos.com/blogs/withoutacrystalball/2019/04/young-living-accused-of-running-illegal-pyramid-scheme-in-new-lawsuit
Spend $100 for a starter kit and $100 a month to earn commissions of $25 a year.
-
Today I discovered* that being a member of an MLM is explicitly called out as a fireable offense at my company.
* I was looking through the rules of employment to see what steps I'd need to follow the day I decide to quit
Wow- that's insane. I wonder if it is enforceable. Lots of people are "discount only" in companies, and never sell to anyone else. So could it even be considered moonlighting?
I think it's quite a good rule! Years ago I had a MANAGER who invited us all to her "Southern Living" party. We all felt obliged to go and to buy something. I thought at the time it was really quite horrible, but this was just after the Great Recession of 2008 (my net worth hadn't exactly gone negative but took a serious hit) and none of us were willing to risk losing favor with the boss.
-
Didn't know this thread existed until now.
My full post is here -- https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/ask-a-mustachian/family-friend-falling-hard-for-mlm-(herbalife)-but-is-it-actually-profitable/
Basically, family friend and her husband have been sucked hard into Herbalife. In fact, both quit their day jobs (as nurse and an insurance salesman) to open a "nutrition club." Funny enough, my law office is maybe 200 feet away from this club, and I know their rent has to be $1,000+ per month. Add in other costs and I have no idea how this can be profitable.
They are so all in it's scary. Their social media is absolutely outrageous -- she cries almost daily in Instagram stories talking about how much the Herbalife "community" means to her and how she cannot wait to bring "good vibes" to our hometown.
As my post suggested, part of me wonders if, maybe, they are the one percent? I can see one SAHP getting involved in this, but for both people to quit decent paying professional jobs and open up a store, maybe they are doing well? Can they possibly be making $10,000 a month?
So, so confused.
-
Didn't know this thread existed until now.
My full post is here -- https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/ask-a-mustachian/family-friend-falling-hard-for-mlm-(herbalife)-but-is-it-actually-profitable/
Basically, family friend and her husband have been sucked hard into Herbalife. In fact, both quit their day jobs (as nurse and an insurance salesman) to open a "nutrition club." Funny enough, my law office is maybe 200 feet away from this club, and I know their rent has to be $1,000+ per month. Add in other costs and I have no idea how this can be profitable.
They are so all in it's scary. Their social media is absolutely outrageous -- she cries almost daily in Instagram stories talking about how much the Herbalife "community" means to her and how she cannot wait to bring "good vibes" to our hometown.
As my post suggested, part of me wonders if, maybe, they are the one percent? I can see one SAHP getting involved in this, but for both people to quit decent paying professional jobs and open up a store, maybe they are doing well? Can they possibly be making $10,000 a month?
So, so confused.
The vast majority of MLM bottom feeders don't make nearly that much. I feel sad for them.
-
Didn't know this thread existed until now.
My full post is here -- https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/ask-a-mustachian/family-friend-falling-hard-for-mlm-(herbalife)-but-is-it-actually-profitable/
Basically, family friend and her husband have been sucked hard into Herbalife. In fact, both quit their day jobs (as nurse and an insurance salesman) to open a "nutrition club." Funny enough, my law office is maybe 200 feet away from this club, and I know their rent has to be $1,000+ per month. Add in other costs and I have no idea how this can be profitable.
They are so all in it's scary. Their social media is absolutely outrageous -- she cries almost daily in Instagram stories talking about how much the Herbalife "community" means to her and how she cannot wait to bring "good vibes" to our hometown.
As my post suggested, part of me wonders if, maybe, they are the one percent? I can see one SAHP getting involved in this, but for both people to quit decent paying professional jobs and open up a store, maybe they are doing well? Can they possibly be making $10,000 a month?
So, so confused.
The vast majority of MLM bottom feeders don't make nearly that much. I feel sad for them.
What I think makes it especially sad is that her current "downline" is almost all friends and family trying to support her, and I think that's created a false sense of hope. These folks are not going to go out and sell the product for them. So, now what?
I know from their social media that they are already on the Herbalife "World Team," which means their royalties are $1,000 - $2,500. Their rent at this new place is $950/month minimum, plus internet, other expenses -- oh, and buying more product. How could this possibly be profitable with $2,000/month (at least) overhead?
I don't know why this has captivated me so much, but I honestly can't look away at this point.
-
Anyone else hear about Advocare eliminating the MLM part of their business model? Going to direct sales only... Curious if this will hit other companies in the near future.
AdvoCare International announces a revision of its business model from multi-level marketing to a direct-to-consumer and single-level marketing compensation plan.
AdvoCare has been in confidential talks with the Federal Trade Commission about the AdvoCare business model and how AdvoCare compensates its Distributors. The planned change will impact Distributors who have participated in the multi-level aspect of the business. Those who currently sell only to customers will not be impacted and there will be no impact on Preferred Customers or retail customers’ ability to purchase products.
“Over the years, we have made many changes to the AdvoCare policies as the regulatory environment has shifted. Based on recent discussions, it became clear that this change is the only viable option,”
says Patrick Wright, AdvoCare’s Chief Executive Officer.
“Regardless of the model, we remain steadfastly committed to providing our high-quality nutritional products to our loyal customers who are seeking to live healthier lives. We stand behind the integrity and values of this company and will continue to work with our dedicated Distributors to provide the best customer service to ensure AdvoCare products are available for decades to come.”
The company gave notice to its more than 100,000 Distributors on May 17 that, effective July 17, 2019, AdvoCare will revise the business model to a single-level distribution model, paying compensation based solely on sales to direct customers.
The Retail and Preferred Customer programs will remain intact with discounts ranging from 20 – 40 percent. This new business model will allow the company to explore new and innovative ways to bring their premium products to market.
“AdvoCare Distributors have been helping change lives since its founding in 1993, by providing premium wellness products to those looking to reach new health and fitness goals – and that will not change,” says AdvoCare’s former CEO and current Chairman of the Board Reid Ward. “We’re proud of the growth of our Preferred Customer program we launched in 2016, which has grown to almost 400,000 discount customers. We look forward to reaching even more customers with a new business model.”
-
Didn't know this thread existed until now.
My full post is here -- https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/ask-a-mustachian/family-friend-falling-hard-for-mlm-(herbalife)-but-is-it-actually-profitable/
Basically, family friend and her husband have been sucked hard into Herbalife. In fact, both quit their day jobs (as nurse and an insurance salesman) to open a "nutrition club." Funny enough, my law office is maybe 200 feet away from this club, and I know their rent has to be $1,000+ per month. Add in other costs and I have no idea how this can be profitable.
They are so all in it's scary. Their social media is absolutely outrageous -- she cries almost daily in Instagram stories talking about how much the Herbalife "community" means to her and how she cannot wait to bring "good vibes" to our hometown.
As my post suggested, part of me wonders if, maybe, they are the one percent? I can see one SAHP getting involved in this, but for both people to quit decent paying professional jobs and open up a store, maybe they are doing well? Can they possibly be making $10,000 a month?
So, so confused.
The vast majority of MLM bottom feeders don't make nearly that much. I feel sad for them.
What I think makes it especially sad is that her current "downline" is almost all friends and family trying to support her, and I think that's created a false sense of hope. These folks are not going to go out and sell the product for them. So, now what?
I know from their social media that they are already on the Herbalife "World Team," which means their royalties are $1,000 - $2,500. Their rent at this new place is $950/month minimum, plus internet, other expenses -- oh, and buying more product. How could this possibly be profitable with $2,000/month (at least) overhead?
I don't know why this has captivated me so much, but I honestly can't look away at this point.
I haven't read your thread yet, but did anyone mention "Betting on Zero"? Seems like those "nutrition stores" pop up and die fairly frequently.
According to this website, looks like "World Team" is still pretty low on the pyramid.
https://herbalifetruth.weebly.com/
I can't seem to look away from these wrecks either. I don't know anyone personally who has really crashed and burned in flames of glory with MLMs, but do know a few who have tried and failed, or are still trying and still failing.
-
They are so all in it's scary. Their social media is absolutely outrageous -- she cries almost daily in Instagram stories talking about how much the Herbalife "community" means to her and how she cannot wait to bring "good vibes" to our hometown.
they use templates for email/social media, etc. based on mood, target, etc. It isn't their words.
BS in, BS out.
you should tell her that there are plenty of good vibes in the town that she should not mess with. as if she'll listen, she's 99.9% brainwashed.
people who get into MLM are brainwashed before they officially join.
-
Anyone else hear about Advocare eliminating the MLM part of their business model? Going to direct sales only... Curious if this will hit other companies in the near future.
AdvoCare International announces a revision of its business model from multi-level marketing to a direct-to-consumer and single-level marketing compensation plan.
AdvoCare has been in confidential talks with the Federal Trade Commission about the AdvoCare business model and how AdvoCare compensates its Distributors. The planned change will impact Distributors who have participated in the multi-level aspect of the business. Those who currently sell only to customers will not be impacted and there will be no impact on Preferred Customers or retail customers’ ability to purchase products.
“Over the years, we have made many changes to the AdvoCare policies as the regulatory environment has shifted. Based on recent discussions, it became clear that this change is the only viable option,”
says Patrick Wright, AdvoCare’s Chief Executive Officer.
“Regardless of the model, we remain steadfastly committed to providing our high-quality nutritional products to our loyal customers who are seeking to live healthier lives. We stand behind the integrity and values of this company and will continue to work with our dedicated Distributors to provide the best customer service to ensure AdvoCare products are available for decades to come.”
The company gave notice to its more than 100,000 Distributors on May 17 that, effective July 17, 2019, AdvoCare will revise the business model to a single-level distribution model, paying compensation based solely on sales to direct customers.
The Retail and Preferred Customer programs will remain intact with discounts ranging from 20 – 40 percent. This new business model will allow the company to explore new and innovative ways to bring their premium products to market.
“AdvoCare Distributors have been helping change lives since its founding in 1993, by providing premium wellness products to those looking to reach new health and fitness goals – and that will not change,” says AdvoCare’s former CEO and current Chairman of the Board Reid Ward. “We’re proud of the growth of our Preferred Customer program we launched in 2016, which has grown to almost 400,000 discount customers. We look forward to reaching even more customers with a new business model.”
That is really interesting! I am curious how some of the current upper level distributors will feel about this change and how it will effect their income. Based upon the comment from their CEO I wonder if more MLM's will move to this model or how they will change their structure. Most of the MLM's I have come in contact with actually have quality products, but the MLM structure leads to them being overpriced.
-
I haven't read your thread yet, but did anyone mention "Betting on Zero"? Seems like those "nutrition stores" pop up and die fairly frequently.
According to this website, looks like "World Team" is still pretty low on the pyramid.
https://herbalifetruth.weebly.com/
I can't seem to look away from these wrecks either. I don't know anyone personally who has really crashed and burned in flames of glory with MLMs, but do know a few who have tried and failed, or are still trying and still failing.
Is it me, or do all those levels seem like the insane levels in Scientology?
ETA: didn't think it could get worse, but here's the benefit of the next level ("Active World Team") -- $500 bonus, on-stage recognition, and a pin. That's it. Good heavens.
-
The Anti-MLM Facebook group was all over the Advocare change this past weekend. All the other huns were out in force, with their fake sympathy immediately followed with "call me and join my MLM downline!" A few Advocare reps expressed frustration at being hounded like that. the irony was lost on them for sure.
For the people who were making the majority of their income via their downlines, this move has essentially killed their income. Adding insult to injury, their former downline is now their competition, assuming these people will actually try to sell product and make commission that way. With such a saturated market and no incentive for reps to stockpile inventory any more, Advocare probably won't be in business much longer. I'm sure upper mgmt is busy creating a new MLM to jump ship from this sinking one.
-
VICE came out with a documentary on LuLaRoe. It was a sad 30 minutes of all that you would expect from a MLM.
-
VICE came out with a documentary on LuLaRoe. It was a sad 30 minutes of all that you would expect from a MLM.
Link to the video: m.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=L6eujSJ0-RU
What a mess. I do know that the Roberta lady has been very vocally anti-MLM since she got out.
-
VICE came out with a documentary on LuLaRoe. It was a sad 30 minutes of all that you would expect from a MLM.
This is a really great documentary about the damage MLMs do. I know it's one thing for us to sit on here and scoff, but these things ruin people.
This also so, so, so reminded me of the girl I'm talking about with Herbalife. All about her "Fit Fam" and the "community" and blah blah blah. From the outside, it seems so clear to me that all these people are being nice to her (at least in part) because she is part of their "downline."
Sooner or later there won't be any more people to sell this crap to. And then what? This girl is going to probably have a three year commercial lease, thousands of dollars worth of product, and God knows what other debt.
Maybe she will scrape by for a while, but statistics say it's incredibly unlikely.
-
VICE came out with a documentary on LuLaRoe. It was a sad 30 minutes of all that you would expect from a MLM.
Link to the video: m.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=L6eujSJ0-RU
What a mess. I do know that the Roberta lady has been very vocally anti-MLM since she got out.
Thank you, from the bottom of my heart, for this link. Not even done watching it yet. Yelled at the monitor "they never were your friends! You moron!" and my wife thought something was wrong. This is some powerful exploitation of those with low self esteem.
-
So that Herbalife Nutrition Club...
366 customers on opening day
240 customers on day two.
Maybe they're the one percent? Or maybe this will all slow down. But either way, this start wildly exceeded my expectations.
-
So that Herbalife Nutrition Club...
366 customers on opening day
240 customers on day two.
Maybe they're the one percent? Or maybe this will all slow down. But either way, this start wildly exceeded my expectations.
But how many customers at day 50? And what do they classify as customer, anyone who walked within 5.meters of the entrance?
-
So that Herbalife Nutrition Club...
366 customers on opening day
240 customers on day two.
Maybe they're the one percent? Or maybe this will all slow down. But either way, this start wildly exceeded my expectations.
If it's like the Herbalife Nutrition Clubs I've heard about, this opening doesn't surprise me, because...
They are all shrouded in mystery. They are not allowed to put "Herbalife" on anything, so no one knows that that's what it is. Also, prices are not listed, so more mystery. You don't know it's Herbalife until it's too late (unless you've watched them make a shake/tea or whatever already). It's very frequent that people are pissed when they find out they were duped.
So, it could be a lot of people saw that it was opening day/weekend and were excited and eager to see what it was all about. And then the majority find out and swear to never step foot in the door again.
I'd also be more interested in the number of customers that come after 50 days or so, once word gets to spread. However, if it's a high tourist-traffic area, they may still get a lot of unsuspecting people coming in.
-
So that Herbalife Nutrition Club...
366 customers on opening day
240 customers on day two.
Maybe they're the one percent? Or maybe this will all slow down. But either way, this start wildly exceeded my expectations.
If it's like the Herbalife Nutrition Clubs I've heard about, this opening doesn't surprise me, because...
They are all shrouded in mystery. They are not allowed to put "Herbalife" on anything, so no one knows that that's what it is. Also, prices are not listed, so more mystery. You don't know it's Herbalife until it's too late (unless you've watched them make a shake/tea or whatever already). It's very frequent that people are pissed when they find out they were duped.
So, it could be a lot of people saw that it was opening day/weekend and were excited and eager to see what it was all about. And then the majority find out and swear to never step foot in the door again.
I'd also be more interested in the number of customers that come after 50 days or so, once word gets to spread. However, if it's a high tourist-traffic area, they may still get a lot of unsuspecting people coming in.
It's at a very, very busy intersection with great visibility. Their mom is a good friend of mine and she is a real estate agent.
-
So that Herbalife Nutrition Club...
366 customers on opening day
240 customers on day two.
Maybe they're the one percent? Or maybe this will all slow down. But either way, this start wildly exceeded my expectations.
If it's like the Herbalife Nutrition Clubs I've heard about, this opening doesn't surprise me, because...
They are all shrouded in mystery. They are not allowed to put "Herbalife" on anything, so no one knows that that's what it is. Also, prices are not listed, so more mystery. You don't know it's Herbalife until it's too late (unless you've watched them make a shake/tea or whatever already). It's very frequent that people are pissed when they find out they were duped.
So, it could be a lot of people saw that it was opening day/weekend and were excited and eager to see what it was all about. And then the majority find out and swear to never step foot in the door again.
I'd also be more interested in the number of customers that come after 50 days or so, once word gets to spread. However, if it's a high tourist-traffic area, they may still get a lot of unsuspecting people coming in.
It's at a very, very busy intersection with great visibility. Their mom is a good friend of mine and she is a real estate agent.
The point of those shops are to get people to sign up for Herbalife, not to sell shakes. Herbalife actually recommends selling the shakes at a loss to lure people in. While those numbers appear to be good traffic for a new business, the bigger question is how many of those people actually sign up, and I have no doubt that very few, if any, will actually fall for it.
A lot of people who unwittingly go into those places are quickly turned off b/c they don't use any fresh products, and they often only have one package you can buy, which includes a smoothie and a tea. Which is an odd combination, and does a good job of turning away repeat customers, who want a fresh smoothie and not a hot tea chaser!
-
The point of those shops are to get people to sign up for Herbalife, not to sell shakes. Herbalife actually recommends selling the shakes at a loss to lure people in. While those numbers appear to be good traffic for a new business, the bigger question is how many of those people actually sign up, and I have no doubt that very few, if any, will actually fall for it.
A lot of people who unwittingly go into those places are quickly turned off b/c they don't use any fresh products, and they often only have one package you can buy, which includes a smoothie and a tea. Which is an odd combination, and does a good job of turning away repeat customers, who want a fresh smoothie and not a hot tea chaser!
Very interesting that you say this, because one of my friends went there just to support a new business the other day. She said it was really "odd" that she had to get a shake, a tea, and an aloe water.
The customer count, which this shop posts every day, has gone as follows: 360, 230, 180, 150. I assume they will stop posting these numbers.
FWIW, the owner also posted a stack of papers on her Instagram, and I'm going to assume they were distributor "applications." Looked like quite a bit. Statistically, 86% of these people are just signing up for the discount.
Still very, very intrigued to see how this goes. I'm shocked they are getting this many customers but who knows what the margins are.
-
The point of those shops are to get people to sign up for Herbalife, not to sell shakes. Herbalife actually recommends selling the shakes at a loss to lure people in. While those numbers appear to be good traffic for a new business, the bigger question is how many of those people actually sign up, and I have no doubt that very few, if any, will actually fall for it.
A lot of people who unwittingly go into those places are quickly turned off b/c they don't use any fresh products, and they often only have one package you can buy, which includes a smoothie and a tea. Which is an odd combination, and does a good job of turning away repeat customers, who want a fresh smoothie and not a hot tea chaser!
Very interesting that you say this, because one of my friends went there just to support a new business the other day. She said it was really "odd" that she had to get a shake, a tea, and an aloe water.
The customer count, which this shop posts every day, has gone as follows: 360, 230, 180, 150. I assume they will stop posting these numbers.
FWIW, the owner also posted a stack of papers on her Instagram, and I'm going to assume they were distributor "applications." Looked like quite a bit. Statistically, 86% of these people are just signing up for the discount.
Still very, very intrigued to see how this goes. I'm shocked they are getting this many customers but who knows what the margins are.
Oh yes, the aloe water! I knew it was 3 things, but smoothie + tea is where I would have slowly walked away and never gone back.
I'm not sure how Herbalife is handling their upline/downline garbage these days - if they went the way of Advocare, then there would be no incentive to recruit, unless they get a one-time signing bonus? Then they wouldn't care if people signed up just for some discount on powder.
I'm sure those declining numbers will not be reported past the first week, especially if they don't experience an uptick on their second weekend in business.
I honestly don't get any of these business models - I have no doubt that GNC sells better quality powders at a lower price than Herbalife. Same goes w/pretty much anything else, in the age of Walmart and Amazon, why would you pay too much for an inferior product, and have to pay shipping and wait weeks for it to arrive?
-
Based on a friend who unfortunately got sucked into Herbalife, I am fairly sure that 99% of Herbalife distributors are just jostling for their position in line to get fucked over by the 1% of their upline who actually make a profit. So maybe not that different from society at large, but with even more self-delusion, because poor people in real life usually know they are poor; poor Herbalife distributors still think they are self-made entrepreneurs, liberating themselves and others from the drudgery of a 9-5 existence.
-
VICE came out with a documentary on LuLaRoe. It was a sad 30 minutes of all that you would expect from a MLM.
Link to the video: m.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=L6eujSJ0-RU
What a mess. I do know that the Roberta lady has been very vocally anti-MLM since she got out.
I had absolutely zero sympathy for the lady who “*sniff* decided to let her house go *cry*”
Meanwhile:
1) you never thought to start paying down that house note with some of those five figure bonus checks. She implies an income near $1M (she said she was nearly a millionaire which she probably meant the incorrect definition of as having a $1M salary vs the correct net worth definition)
2) probably pressured a bunch of her downline in order to keep the money flowing. Given how much your entire downline has to buy to get that bonus check.
3) she has a huge SUV and probably amongst many others she shows off a $4k purse that “she deserved”. Lady that’s a mortgage payment or two right there
Probably getting exactly what she deserved.
-
I'm at a BBQ and this guy approaches me about his new MLM experience.
"My friends wanted me to get into this, and I said fuck you, it's bullshit, but you know what? As I looked into, I saw it wasn't bullshit. And then they wanted me to drink these shakes to lose weight, and I told them fuck you, I'm gonna be shitting my pants, but you know what? I didn't shit my pants. And then they wanted me to meet Erica, and I said who's Erica? Dude, she's really rich, and such a nice person, too."
Do you see what he was doing? He was addressing my objections by saying he thought it wouldn't work, and that he thought shakes would lead to shitting his pants.
-
I'm at a BBQ and this guy approaches me about his new MLM experience.
"My friends wanted me to get into this, and I said fuck you, it's bullshit, but you know what? As I looked into, I saw it wasn't bullshit. And then they wanted me to drink these shakes to lose weight, and I told them fuck you, I'm gonna be shitting my pants, but you know what? I didn't shit my pants. And then they wanted me to meet Erica, and I said who's Erica? Dude, she's really rich, and such a nice person, too."
Do you see what he was doing? He was addressing my objections by saying he thought it wouldn't work, and that he thought shakes would lead to shitting his pants.
Lol. Did it work?
"Yeah, so shakes didn't make you shit your pants? Have you tried Soylent? It'll make you good friends with the toilet."
-
I'm at a BBQ and this guy approaches me about his new MLM experience.
"My friends wanted me to get into this, and I said fuck you, it's bullshit, but you know what? As I looked into, I saw it wasn't bullshit. And then they wanted me to drink these shakes to lose weight, and I told them fuck you, I'm gonna be shitting my pants, but you know what? I didn't shit my pants. And then they wanted me to meet Erica, and I said who's Erica? Dude, she's really rich, and such a nice person, too."
Do you see what he was doing? He was addressing my objections by saying he thought it wouldn't work, and that he thought shakes would lead to shitting his pants.
I wonder how often the conversation goes like this:
"but you know what? I didn't shit my pants."
"I'm in"
It's a clever tactic bring up the objections you expect your mark will have before they get a chance to... but why would anyone think shakes cause diarrhea? Is that a thing?
Now I'm actually more worried about whatever he's selling.
-
I sent an xmas card to an old boss. A phone call comes from his home number. It's his wife. She wanted to say that she loved that we sent a silly card instead being so serious. She emphasizes that everyone is doing so well, particularly noting a loser son's great business success.
And then it comes. She begins in with these products, and the business, and how the medical community was conspiring against all the healing benefits of them. She was thinking I'd be great at this, and also my wife. I mention that because my wife works in a hospital, it would be a conflict of interest, to which she says it would actually be better, because she has access to sick people who can buy more stuff.
1 hour later I'm tired from trying not to crack up in her face, and agree to review the confidential materials that are for insiders only, because the FDA has it out for them, because they want people to keep having cancer.
I get the materials, and forward them immediately to the FDA.
-
I'm at a BBQ and this guy approaches me about his new MLM experience.
"My friends wanted me to get into this, and I said fuck you, it's bullshit, but you know what? As I looked into, I saw it wasn't bullshit. And then they wanted me to drink these shakes to lose weight, and I told them fuck you, I'm gonna be shitting my pants, but you know what? I didn't shit my pants. And then they wanted me to meet Erica, and I said who's Erica? Dude, she's really rich, and such a nice person, too."
Do you see what he was doing? He was addressing my objections by saying he thought it wouldn't work, and that he thought shakes would lead to shitting his pants.
Lol. Did it work?
"Yeah, so shakes didn't make you shit your pants? Have you tried Soylent? It'll make you good friends with the toilet."
Like all diets, it works if you work it. You're drinking water-based shakes and 1 good meal a day. No alcohol, or junk. What also works is eating only meat and vegetables.
-
I'm at a BBQ and this guy approaches me about his new MLM experience.
"My friends wanted me to get into this, and I said fuck you, it's bullshit, but you know what? As I looked into, I saw it wasn't bullshit. And then they wanted me to drink these shakes to lose weight, and I told them fuck you, I'm gonna be shitting my pants, but you know what? I didn't shit my pants. And then they wanted me to meet Erica, and I said who's Erica? Dude, she's really rich, and such a nice person, too."
Do you see what he was doing? He was addressing my objections by saying he thought it wouldn't work, and that he thought shakes would lead to shitting his pants.
I wonder how often the conversation goes like this:
"but you know what? I didn't shit my pants."
"I'm in"
It's a clever tactic bring up the objections you expect your mark will have before they get a chance to... but why would anyone think shakes cause diarrhea? Is that a thing?
I mean, diarrhea will certainly cause weight loss.
Until you get used to the shakes, no more diarrhea and no more weightless.
-
Wait - the shakes cause you to get the shakes and wreck your pants???
The FDA needs to know about this stuff... /s
-
No, silly, they DON'T make you shit yourself. That's how you know you'll get rich. Now get out there and make it happen!
-
I'm at a BBQ and this guy approaches me about his new MLM experience.
"My friends wanted me to get into this, and I said fuck you, it's bullshit, but you know what? As I looked into, I saw it wasn't bullshit. And then they wanted me to drink these shakes to lose weight, and I told them fuck you, I'm gonna be shitting my pants, but you know what? I didn't shit my pants. And then they wanted me to meet Erica, and I said who's Erica? Dude, she's really rich, and such a nice person, too."
Do you see what he was doing? He was addressing my objections by saying he thought it wouldn't work, and that he thought shakes would lead to shitting his pants.
Lol. Did it work?
"Yeah, so shakes didn't make you shit your pants? Have you tried Soylent? It'll make you good friends with the toilet."
Like all diets, it works if you work it. You're drinking water-based shakes and 1 good meal a day. No alcohol, or junk. What also works is eating only meat and vegetables.
Not an MLM, but it fits perfectly with this conversation and I needed to share it with someone. Next door to my office is a cafe that just screams "pretentious." It's a restaurant that sells food, but reminds you on every wall and surface that they're healthy and organic and vibes and choose your related buzzword. Strangely, their website has almost nothing to do with the restaurant chain. Instead, its a storefront for selling "cleansing" shakes. They recommend a 30-day "cleanse" with their product to rid you of "toxins" that are residing in your fat cells. During this cleanse they want you to drink lots of water and consume only their special drink for a month. The irritability you experience is from those pesky toxins being pissed out instead of the radical change in your diet. Congratulations, your body is now "mobilized" which means you're sweating and pissing out these toxins, which without the special drink you weren't doing before. Somehow these toxins just kept on accumulating all these years without killing you. Apparently purging your body of these unnamed toxins with the help of their juice is what is helping you lose weight rather than their previous advice of not eating. And be sure to eat only organic foods after the cleanse that haven't been "genetically sprayed." (can you imagine the scientific and commercial implications of being able to genetically modify something with a spray bottle?) And be sure to involve friends and family to increase their consumer base - I mean for support.
https://kaleidoscope.love/cleanse-instructions (https://kaleidoscope.love/cleanse-instructions)
-
If anyone tries to sell me on diets, especially the MLM ones, my response is: do you even exercise, walking doesn't count.
Diets are pointless unless paired with an exercise routine.
Every person I know doing keto/atkins/WW/etc doesn't exercise or doesn't stick to routine.
My mum didn't, her weight yo-yo'd when she went on/off slimfast. Then she stopped dieting and started exercising in the company gym, her weight reduced some then was constant.
Fuck MLMs and dieters who don't exercise.
-
If anyone tries to sell me on diets, especially the MLM ones, my response is: do you even exercise, walking doesn't count.
Diets are pointless unless paired with an exercise routine.
Every person I know doing keto/atkins/WW/etc doesn't exercise or doesn't stick to routine.
My mum didn't, her weight yo-yo'd when she went on/off slimfast. Then she stopped dieting and started exercising in the company gym, her weight reduced some then was constant.
Fuck MLMs and dieters who don't exercise.
Umm....
I lost 70lbs with pretty much diet alone and kept it off for years. No intense exercise here due to some serious injuries and medical issues that prevented anything more than gentle walking.
Yes, temporary, restrictive "diets" tend to fail, but that does not mean that a consistent change in diet can't result in substantial and sustainable weight loss.
-
My wife is about to lose a good deal of weight with the MMM diet by riding a bicycle 4 miles a day. Despite not exercising for about 5 years, she's maintained her current weight, so I feel confident that she'll be very happy with the results.
-
If anyone tries to sell me on diets, especially the MLM ones, my response is: do you even exercise, walking doesn't count.
Walking does count! I lost 40 pounds by eating low-carb and taking long walks.
-
I got fooled again. Accepted a friend request on FB from someone who I didn't know that well - about 10 years ago our kids did an activity together for a year. We still have mutual friends but I'm sure I haven't seen her in at least 8 years. Sure enough, her Facebook feed consisted entirely of motivational diet stuff and before & after pics of those using her product and "contact me!" to find out more. I unfriended her so fast...
The funny part is I'm hardly on FB at all; I only log in every day or two to check a couple of community pages. I actually accepted the request by accident! She has a unique name, let's call her Esmerelda. I recently met a funny and kind woman named Esmerelda through another friend, and I hadn't thought of Old Esmerelda in years, so I thought New Esmerelda wanted to connect.
It's so sad that the only reason a "friend" or acquaintance suddenly contacts you after an absence of 5 or more years is to sell you something.
-
Umm....
I lost 70lbs with pretty much diet alone and kept it off for years. No intense exercise here due to some serious injuries and medical issues that prevented anything more than gentle walking.
Yes, temporary, restrictive "diets" tend to fail, but that does not mean that a consistent change in diet can't result in substantial and sustainable weight loss.
Yeah, unless you're doing Olympic athlete levels of exercise, diet matters far more for weight loss because it's ridiculously easier to eat/not eat an extra 1000 calories than it is to burn that off.
-
If anyone tries to sell me on diets, especially the MLM ones, my response is: do you even exercise, walking doesn't count.
Walking does count! I lost 40 pounds by eating low-carb and taking long walks.
Yeah, I lost 18 lbs. last year by watching portions and taking long walks. I only gain weight when I stop caring about my diet.
-
ok you long walkers are making me eat crow.
i find it easier to work out consistently and burn calories instead of restricting my food. but then I barely eat junk and refined carbs, eating more protein and veg. (maybe i'm dieting and I don't know it?)
back to eating crow. om nom nom.
@Malkynn perhaps you're a statistical outlier or my anecdata should not be used to broadly sweep all dieters.
where's that darn crow?
-
I think you can mail order fresh crow from Amazon these days... Got free shipping?
-
I think you can mail order fresh crow from Amazon these days... Got free shipping?
I haz a Primes account... I needs to go food shopping there but never have.
I'm assuming it's packed in freeze-dried turds.
-
If anyone tries to sell me on diets, especially the MLM ones, my response is: do you even exercise, walking doesn't count.
Walking does count! I lost 40 pounds by eating low-carb and taking long walks.
Walking absolutely counts, because some people can't do anything else. And even if you can, it counts.
-
ok you long walkers are making me eat crow.
i find it easier to work out consistently and burn calories instead of restricting my food. but then I barely eat junk and refined carbs, eating more protein and veg. (maybe i'm dieting and I don't know it?)
back to eating crow. om nom nom.
@Malkynn perhaps you're a statistical outlier or my anecdata should not be used to broadly sweep all dieters.
where's that darn crow?
Great response.
I appreciate this community more and more. Some people in real life aren't this open to being contradicted.
If anyone tries to sell me on diets, especially the MLM ones, my response is: do you even exercise, walking from the house to the car, car to the store doesn't count.
FTFY
-
ok you long walkers are making me eat crow.
i find it easier to work out consistently and burn calories instead of restricting my food. but then I barely eat junk and refined carbs, eating more protein and veg. (maybe i'm dieting and I don't know it?)
back to eating crow. om nom nom.
@Malkynn perhaps you're a statistical outlier or my anecdata should not be used to broadly sweep all dieters.
where's that darn crow?
This is now the gold standard for how to stand corrected with honor on a forum. jinga nation, you are today's hero.
-
If anyone tries to sell me on diets, especially the MLM ones, my response is: do you even exercise, walking doesn't count.
Walking does count! I lost 40 pounds by eating low-carb and taking long walks.
Walking absolutely counts, because some people can't do anything else. And even if you can, it counts.
I agree with you, but it's not just the walking it's also the distance/duration. When I walk to the supermarket, that's 2k, work is 3k and city center is 5k.
Just walking 2 or 3 hundred meters won't cut it.
-
I think you can mail order fresh crow from Amazon these days... Got free shipping?
I haz a Primes account... I needs to go food shopping there but never have.
I'm assuming it's packed in freeze-dried turds.
HAHAHA. Have a great weekend!
-
It's so sad that the only reason a "friend" or acquaintance suddenly contacts you after an absence of 5 or more years is to sell you something.
This is sad. Earlier in the thread is a good discussion of how MLMs and the general "hustle economy" are so bad for community and mutual aid. Every relationship is turned into a potential profit center and "friends" are nothing but marketing targets.
-
It's so sad that the only reason a "friend" or acquaintance suddenly contacts you after an absence of 5 or more years is to sell you something.
This is sad. Earlier in the thread is a good discussion of how MLMs and the general "hustle economy" are so bad for community and mutual aid. Every relationship is turned into a potential profit center and "friends" are nothing but marketing targets.
+1
Word.
MLMs have not only ruined good friendships but also made me wary of making new friends.
Meanwhile my existing friendships have become better, stronger, longer.
-
I feel like the MLM thing might be dying down already. When this thread started I knew tons of neighborhood mom's that were in them, and a friend who had a year of two making LOTS of money with LuLaRoe. I was getting requests once a week to go to "parties". But in the last year and a half....nothing. The LuLaRoe seller I know left last summer or the summer before. I can't remember now.
Maybe the exposure of LuLaRoe shed some light on how bad these are?
-
Maybe the exposure of LuLaRoe shed some light on how bad these are?
I hope so. They did explode in a very public way. Unfortunately it seems like every 5 years or so something else pops up. Remember Pampered Chef?
-
I feel like the MLM thing might be dying down already. When this thread started I knew tons of neighborhood mom's that were in them, and a friend who had a year of two making LOTS of money with LuLaRoe. I was getting requests once a week to go to "parties". But in the last year and a half....nothing. The LuLaRoe seller I know left last summer or the summer before. I can't remember now.
Maybe the exposure of LuLaRoe shed some light on how bad these are?
Moms in MLMs is one of the things I don't miss about Facebook. They were touting some kind of lotion/makeup. And they sounded ridiculous, posting photos of their leadership meetings a local restaurant, talking about how they own their own business (a post that was probably crafted with incredible care), and other very annoying stuff.
-
Maybe the exposure of LuLaRoe shed some light on how bad these are?
I hope so. They did explode in a very public way. Unfortunately it seems like every 5 years or so something else pops up. Remember Pampered Chef?
Pampered Chef is 100% still going, just not as popular. But I've been invited to a PC party every 1.5 years or so.
-
is there anything that PC sells that a person couldn't get from an online place like WalMart or Amazon?
-
is there anything that PC sells that a person couldn't get from an online place like WalMart or Amazon?
I don't think so. Their stuff is proprietary but you can find almost identical items. The last time I went to a party (about 4 years ago) they demonstrated a wine bottle opener that I decided I needed; I think it was $29. I even filled out the paperwork but then I got annoyed that they added a shipping charge of >$5 even though the item was going to my host who would have to deliver it to me. There are many similar wine bottle openers available online, although I'm still using the crappy corkscrew I bought from IKEA for about $1, haha. That annoying shipping charge saved me some $$.
-
If anyone tries to sell me on diets, especially the MLM ones, my response is: do you even exercise, walking doesn't count.
Walking does count! I lost 40 pounds by eating low-carb and taking long walks.
Walking absolutely counts, because some people can't do anything else. And even if you can, it counts.
I agree with you, but it's not just the walking it's also the distance/duration. When I walk to the supermarket, that's 2k, work is 3k and city center is 5k.
Just walking 2 or 3 hundred meters won't cut it.
Well, yeah.
That's probably why people who walk a lot are slimmer. Like my neighbor who doesn't drive. Or Europeans.
Funny story, my in laws got back from a trip to Europe. They were visiting friends. So. Many. Blisters. (Even with good shoes!) Because the city dwellers just walk everywhere. Apparently the family members were wearing their fitbits and they were averaging 14 miles a day.
-
I’ve seen some of the standard offenders in my circles over the years—Pampered Chef, Mary Kay, Jamberry, etc. One that I almost was fooled by (as a 12 year old athlete with big dreams of making it™️) was the MonaVie açaí berry (“superfruit”) juice. 😂 I searched them up recently—they went under several years ago. Currently floating around my social media feed:
3D Fiber Lash something
LimeLife by Alcone
Young Living essential oils
SeneGence lipstick
Scentsy
Younique??
LuLaRoe
AND....are you guys ready for this??...since I now work at a marketing/communications agency, I’ve literally been hired to work on stuff for one-who-shall-not-be-named. I’m in the belly of the beast, y’all. 😅
-
AND....are you guys ready for this??...since I now work at a marketing/communications agency, I’ve literally been hired to work on stuff for one-who-shall-not-be-named. I’m in the belly of the beast, y’all. 😅
Well, then, we shall expect all the juicy (ahem) details.
-
saw on my FB feed this morning from a neighbor former seller that WildTree is closing it's doors.
If you've ever been invited to one of those parties you know how crazy expensive it is. Like $75 for a "meal kit" to make a weeks worth of freezer meals. BUT you also have to buy the actual food. The $75 just covers some spices and oils. And I guess the consultants time and recipes. Who would pay for that?!?! I never went to one, lots of invites but I thought the pricing was crazy. That's my grocery budget for a week! Not just spices.
-
One that I almost was fooled by (as a 12 year old athlete with big dreams of making it™️) was the MonaVie açaí berry (“superfruit”) juice. 😂 I searched them up recently—they went under several years ago.
There was a lady driving around our town a few years ago, about 60 yrs old i guess, but she looked Rough !, rode hard and put away wet, too many nights smoking at the bar - anyhow she drove around in a beat-up Geo Metro with huge MonaVie lettering on the side. The 1st impression was that she got into the 'superfruit' too late. the 2nd impression was she was not making any money, given her rattletrap of a vehicle. I suppose she could've been eschewing owning a "nice" car, but i doubt it....
-
saw on my FB feed this morning from a neighbor former seller that WildTree is closing it's doors.
If you've ever been invited to one of those parties you know how crazy expensive it is. Like $75 for a "meal kit" to make a weeks worth of freezer meals. BUT you also have to buy the actual food. The $75 just covers some spices and oils. And I guess the consultants time and recipes. Who would pay for that?!?! I never went to one, lots of invites but I thought the pricing was crazy. That's my grocery budget for a week! Not just spices.
You're reminding me of the candle parties my wife was always invited to.
-
I have a facebook acquaintance who isn't all there - I don't know any details but he is definitely developmentally challenged, and now in his 40s. I've never met his wife in person but she seems to also be challenged and they are extremely low income. They have gotten pulled into a new one - Stream Energy? I haven't investigated it so much but apparently its an MLM that sells utilities? I've seen posts from him about electric plans, gas plans, cell phone plans, etc. He's even updated all of his information to say that he works in "Network Marketing" and that he is an "independent associate." I just feel bad for them - they were both working minimum wage jobs, but it seems like they have quit their jobs to just try and do this. He has made a lot of posts about how this is going to help him reach financial independence and he will be able to take care of all of his nieces and nephews. I haven't said anything, but I am sure it is headed toward failure.
-
I have a facebook acquaintance who isn't all there - I don't know any details but he is definitely developmentally challenged, and now in his 40s. I've never met his wife in person but she seems to also be challenged and they are extremely low income. They have gotten pulled into a new one - Stream Energy? I haven't investigated it so much but apparently its an MLM that sells utilities? I've seen posts from him about electric plans, gas plans, cell phone plans, etc. He's even updated all of his information to say that he works in "Network Marketing" and that he is an "independent associate." I just feel bad for them - they were both working minimum wage jobs, but it seems like they have quit their jobs to just try and do this. He has made a lot of posts about how this is going to help him reach financial independence and he will be able to take care of all of his nieces and nephews. I haven't said anything, but I am sure it is headed toward failure.
That is sad, because he's clearly being genuine and upfront about it, but doesn't know the stink of what he's asking others to sniff.
I know a guy who got into Amway at 18, and when he was applying for summer jobs he listed as his hobbies/interests
- Network Marketing
- Entrepreneurship
- Real Estate
He was so clearly hungry to learn and do SOMETHING! But I think it really set him back a bit because he's not a salesman, and didn't have any clue that this was a huge no-no going into the application process.
-
I saw this article (https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2019/07/02/facebook-wants-limit-reach-bogus-medical-cures-by-treating-them-like-spam/?_hsenc=p2ANqtz-_FkJAm9ECrDDF6-Y14co2QFimM9u2wHMfUuXNxJqGQ05JbItbN6E1vnwOboZVtR1Tvvg3jzBbXroREEfTaNoCZpeyoOg&_hsmi=74303178&utm_campaign=KHN%3A%20First%20Edition&utm_content=74303178&utm_medium=email&utm_source=hs_email&utm_term=.37ce3bc1104e) from the Washington Post about FB wanting to limit the reach of bogus medical cures. I can see this policy having a big effect on several of the MLM sellers and groups.
-
I saw this article (https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2019/07/02/facebook-wants-limit-reach-bogus-medical-cures-by-treating-them-like-spam/?_hsenc=p2ANqtz-_FkJAm9ECrDDF6-Y14co2QFimM9u2wHMfUuXNxJqGQ05JbItbN6E1vnwOboZVtR1Tvvg3jzBbXroREEfTaNoCZpeyoOg&_hsmi=74303178&utm_campaign=KHN%3A%20First%20Edition&utm_content=74303178&utm_medium=email&utm_source=hs_email&utm_term=.37ce3bc1104e) from the Washington Post about FB wanting to limit the reach of bogus medical cures. I can see this policy having a big effect on several of the MLM sellers and groups.
Hilarious. Facebook wanting to limit reach of bogus anything... yeah right.
Ain't gonna happen. There isn't enough outrage.
Privacy debacle swept under Zuck's rug.
-
It definitely doesn't seem like MLMs are dying in my world! LLR isn't nearly as common, but there's fancy hair care, organic skin care and makeup (several different companies, I believe), 31 Bags, and more, all still going quite strong.
-
It definitely doesn't seem like MLMs are dying in my world! LLR isn't nearly as common, but there's fancy hair care, organic skin care and makeup (several different companies, I believe), 31 Bags, and more, all still going quite strong.
I haven't seen anyone selling 31 bags in forever. I thought they were dead.
-
It definitely doesn't seem like MLMs are dying in my world! LLR isn't nearly as common, but there's fancy hair care, organic skin care and makeup (several different companies, I believe), 31 Bags, and more, all still going quite strong.
I haven't seen anyone selling 31 bags in forever. I thought they were dead.
I received some 31 bags from my sister a couple weeks ago as a birthday gift. Nice enough bags, and I'll probably actually use the two she sent, but they are way overpriced.
Mostly I seem to hear about the fancy hair-care line (i'm on the verge of a defriend over that--she has a separate FB page or group for her "business", but her feed seems to be full of how excited she is to try the new product, or how great the view is from her "office" because she can work from home/vacation, or how she packed her kid's summer camp bag with the special shampoo), and some make up and skin care stuff. And I see posts in several groups I'm part of with someone asking for an XYZ rep because they need new oils/candles/lotion/kitchen tools/jewelry/whatever, and there are always a zillion responses. And several of the groups have "marketing Monday", to keep the sales pitches limited, and I don't even check the groups on those days because they are full of MLM posts, hawking both products and the chance at "entrepreneurship".
-
Recently a family member has begun selling Color Street nail strips. Didn't even know they were a thing until she started talking about them. Thankfully my wife isn't at all interested in them. She's been guilted into buying several MLM things from friends/family in the past but this time she gave a firm no when I probably would have caved and bought $20 worth or something. The seller was taken aback but thankfully the seller and her husband have good jobs so it's not a big deal. I wasn't even sure if it was an MLM or not and had to look it up.
-
Recently a family member has begun selling Color Street nail strips. Didn't even know they were a thing until she started talking about them. Thankfully my wife isn't at all interested in them. She's been guilted into buying several MLM things from friends/family in the past but this time she gave a firm no when I probably would have caved and bought $20 worth or something. The seller was taken aback but thankfully the seller and her husband have good jobs so it's not a big deal. I wasn't even sure if it was an MLM or not and had to look it up.
I think that the best thing and the kindest thing to do when approached by an MLM rep is to say no from the very beginning. If friends/family purchase items in the beginning to be nice or supportive, it just encourages reps to buy more product, which ultimately puts them further in the hole.
-
Anyone else hear about Advocare eliminating the MLM part of their business model? Going to direct sales only... Curious if this will hit other companies in the near future.
AdvoCare International announces a revision of its business model from multi-level marketing to a direct-to-consumer and single-level marketing compensation plan.
AdvoCare has been in confidential talks with the Federal Trade Commission about the AdvoCare business model and how AdvoCare compensates its Distributors. The planned change will impact Distributors who have participated in the multi-level aspect of the business. Those who currently sell only to customers will not be impacted and there will be no impact on Preferred Customers or retail customers’ ability to purchase products.
“Over the years, we have made many changes to the AdvoCare policies as the regulatory environment has shifted. Based on recent discussions, it became clear that this change is the only viable option,”
says Patrick Wright, AdvoCare’s Chief Executive Officer.
“Regardless of the model, we remain steadfastly committed to providing our high-quality nutritional products to our loyal customers who are seeking to live healthier lives. We stand behind the integrity and values of this company and will continue to work with our dedicated Distributors to provide the best customer service to ensure AdvoCare products are available for decades to come.”
The company gave notice to its more than 100,000 Distributors on May 17 that, effective July 17, 2019, AdvoCare will revise the business model to a single-level distribution model, paying compensation based solely on sales to direct customers.
The Retail and Preferred Customer programs will remain intact with discounts ranging from 20 – 40 percent. This new business model will allow the company to explore new and innovative ways to bring their premium products to market.
“AdvoCare Distributors have been helping change lives since its founding in 1993, by providing premium wellness products to those looking to reach new health and fitness goals – and that will not change,” says AdvoCare’s former CEO and current Chairman of the Board Reid Ward. “We’re proud of the growth of our Preferred Customer program we launched in 2016, which has grown to almost 400,000 discount customers. We look forward to reaching even more customers with a new business model.”
That is really interesting! I am curious how some of the current upper level distributors will feel about this change and how it will effect their income. Based upon the comment from their CEO I wonder if more MLM's will move to this model or how they will change their structure. Most of the MLM's I have come in contact with actually have quality products, but the MLM structure leads to them being overpriced.
It has been financially disastrous for upper level Advocare distributors. The people who made money in Advocare did so due to extremely extensive downlines and their income has basically shrunk to 0. They received 30 days notice of the change, and many of them were in denial or simply didn't understand the consequences right away.
I'm sure many of them are bouncing back by signing on to other MLMs and recruiting their downlines to the next thing. But there have been more than a few missed mortgage payments as a result of the Advocare wreckage.
-
Recently a family member has begun selling Color Street nail strips. Didn't even know they were a thing until she started talking about them. Thankfully my wife isn't at all interested in them. She's been guilted into buying several MLM things from friends/family in the past but this time she gave a firm no when I probably would have caved and bought $20 worth or something. The seller was taken aback but thankfully the seller and her husband have good jobs so it's not a big deal. I wasn't even sure if it was an MLM or not and had to look it up.
I think that the best thing and the kindest thing to do when approached by an MLM rep is to say no from the very beginning. If friends/family purchase items in the beginning to be nice or supportive, it just encourages reps to buy more product, which ultimately puts them further in the hole.
Yes. A supervisor of my wife's approached me once. I let her know that the only thing I like to do on he side is blog (I used to have a blog). And then I thanked her for thinking of me.
She said she was really appreciative that I returned her call.
-
It definitely doesn't seem like MLMs are dying in my world! LLR isn't nearly as common, but there's fancy hair care, organic skin care and makeup (several different companies, I believe), 31 Bags, and more, all still going quite strong.
Until five years ago, a solid proportion of the people I knew were involved in some MLM or another and I was constantly being invited to "parties" for everything from Tupperware to sex toys (I don't even want to *think* what those parties are like!). Then we moved and nobody in my new neighbourhood sells anything. It's glorious. I still get invited to parties now, but they're real parties, not sales sessions.
-
It definitely doesn't seem like MLMs are dying in my world! LLR isn't nearly as common, but there's fancy hair care, organic skin care and makeup (several different companies, I believe), 31 Bags, and more, all still going quite strong.
Until five years ago, a solid proportion of the people I knew were involved in some MLM or another and I was constantly being invited to "parties" for everything from Tupperware to sex toys (I don't even want to *think* what those parties are like!). Then we moved and nobody in my new neighbourhood sells anything. It's glorious. I still get invited to parties now, but they're real parties, not sales sessions.
What do you think the difference in neighborhood is?
-
The Beach Body Coach lady on my Facebook list has become vocal again...
I thought maybe she quit because she wasn't posting about BB anymore. No, she was just going through a rough time but is right back into it.
She has also gotten into CBD oil. Which, no big deal in itself. However, the "brand" she is pushing is another MLM being sold by a friend of hers. She also announced her daughter had a new "beauty business" recently (daughter is around 23, "her business" is Senegence--aka LipSense).
We are a small town. We don't even have a Walmart (I'm not complaining). However, after marijuana was "legalized" (in quotes because I still don't get how states can legalize something not legal at federal level) we now have no less than five different pot shops, which probably all sell CBD oil of better quality for much less. There is absolutely no reason to go the expensive MLM route here! (but, really, is there ever?)
ETA: She stays because I have known her my entire life, and she was my son's first babysitter. I'm also friends with her husband through work. She hasn't been annoying about it, but it makes me sad, because I know they struggle with money at times, and she's throwing so much into this crap. If she'd drop the side hustle and they both just worked their day jobs, they'd probably be just fine.
-
I made great money with Beach Body, but writing their advertising, not selling their stuff.
Some years back I tried to get in with an MLM motivational speaker. That would have been some great money, but I guess the devil wasn't ready for my soul.
-
I still don't get how states can legalize something not legal at federal level)
Constitutionally, the federal government doesn't have the power to regulate intrastate commerce, only interstate. Obviously the cannabis issue is more complicated than that, but that's the basis of it.
-
I finally have one!
Over the years, I've been approached by friends and colleagues selling whatever--Princess House Crystal, Pampered Chef--and never had any trouble saying no since I never needed or wanted any of that stuff, but now my next door neighbor has joined the MLM crowd, selling 'natural cleaning products.' They've been nice enough neighbors, but we have never socialized so I was surprised when she invited me to a 'reception' that she was holding one afternoon after handing me a postcard showing the company's wares ("Thanks, but sorry, I have plans!"). Later she approached my husband while he was washing his car in the driveway, asking if he wanted to try out a 'silver-infused cleaning cloth' that she had in her hand.
DH is a sweet guy and said sure and thanks, and gave the windshield a swipe, but then noticed she was still standing there. He asked, "Um, are you giving this to me?"
"Oh, no! It's from (whatever brand) and I'm selling them," she said with a big smile.
"Oh, okay. Here. No thanks," he said as he handed it back.
When DH--who is an extraordinarily generous guy--told me about this exchange, he said, "You know, after all the free passes I've given them to (very famous and costly theme park where he works, literally thousands of dollar's worth of passes), she couldn't give me a free rag? That's nuts."
I don't think she'll be trying to sell us anything else for a while, and those free passes they've been getting once or twice a year? Yeah, they lost those too. Good luck with that MLM!
-
I finally have one!
"You know, after all the free passes I've given them to (very famous and costly theme park where he works, literally thousands of dollar's worth of passes), she couldn't give me a free rag? That's nuts."
Love it
-
I finally have one!
Over the years, I've been approached by friends and colleagues selling whatever--Princess House Crystal, Pampered Chef--and never had any trouble saying no since I never needed or wanted any of that stuff, but now my next door neighbor has joined the MLM crowd, selling 'natural cleaning products.' They've been nice enough neighbors, but we have never socialized so I was surprised when she invited me to a 'reception' that she was holding one afternoon after handing me a postcard showing the company's wares ("Thanks, but sorry, I have plans!"). Later she approached my husband while he was washing his car in the driveway, asking if he wanted to try out a 'silver-infused cleaning cloth' that she had in her hand.
DH is a sweet guy and said sure and thanks, and gave the windshield a swipe, but then noticed she was still standing there. He asked, "Um, are you giving this to me?"
"Oh, no! It's from (whatever brand) and I'm selling them," she said with a big smile.
"Oh, okay. Here. No thanks," he said as he handed it back.
When DH--who is an extraordinarily generous guy--told me about this exchange, he said, "You know, after all the free passes I've given them to (very famous and costly theme park where he works, literally thousands of dollar's worth of passes), she couldn't give me a free rag? That's nuts."
I don't think she'll be trying to sell us anything else for a while, and those free passes they've been getting once or twice a year? Yeah, they lost those too. Good luck with that MLM!
Sounds like Norwex.
Look up their claims and how they do their presentations, it's so gross!
I've heard of them smearing raw chicken on a counter, doing nothing but wipe it down with the "magic silver embedded rag" that "kills all the bacteria" so you're now safe to eat off that surface!
Uh, no.
I'm sure you were not giving away free tickets in expectation of a return gift, but I 100% agree with the "no more free tickets" stance. You don't need to continue to be generous to people who only take.
-
This silver thread thing has me confused. If silver is not poisonous to us (silverware) why would it be poisonous to germs?
-
This silver thread thing has me confused. If silver is not poisonous to us (silverware) why would it be poisonous to germs?
Levels of exposure--I'm sure ingesting enough silver would kill a person too...
Silver does have antibacterial properties. So does wood. However, they are making claims well beyond the science. Using their rag is going to kill the bacteria about as much as me beating the dried up raw chicken juice with a wooden spoon.
-
I finally have one!
Over the years, I've been approached by friends and colleagues selling whatever--Princess House Crystal, Pampered Chef--and never had any trouble saying no since I never needed or wanted any of that stuff, but now my next door neighbor has joined the MLM crowd, selling 'natural cleaning products.' They've been nice enough neighbors, but we have never socialized so I was surprised when she invited me to a 'reception' that she was holding one afternoon after handing me a postcard showing the company's wares ("Thanks, but sorry, I have plans!"). Later she approached my husband while he was washing his car in the driveway, asking if he wanted to try out a 'silver-infused cleaning cloth' that she had in her hand.
DH is a sweet guy and said sure and thanks, and gave the windshield a swipe, but then noticed she was still standing there. He asked, "Um, are you giving this to me?"
"Oh, no! It's from (whatever brand) and I'm selling them," she said with a big smile.
"Oh, okay. Here. No thanks," he said as he handed it back.
When DH--who is an extraordinarily generous guy--told me about this exchange, he said, "You know, after all the free passes I've given them to (very famous and costly theme park where he works, literally thousands of dollar's worth of passes), she couldn't give me a free rag? That's nuts."
I don't think she'll be trying to sell us anything else for a while, and those free passes they've been getting once or twice a year? Yeah, they lost those too. Good luck with that MLM!
Sounds like Norwex.
Look up their claims and how they do their presentations, it's so gross!
I've heard of them smearing raw chicken on a counter, doing nothing but wipe it down with the "magic silver embedded rag" that "kills all the bacteria" so you're now safe to eat off that surface!
Uh, no.
I'm sure you were not giving away free tickets in expectation of a return gift, but I 100% agree with the "no more free tickets" stance. You don't need to continue to be generous to people who only take.
Absolutely no expectation of getting something in return, but that whole exchange proved too much for DH.
And you're correct: it's Norwex. I spent a little time on their website this morning and nomygod! For someone like me who works with a lot of science and you know, actual facts and evidence, so much no.
-
Ah, Norwex. They get singled out quite a bit on the "Sounds Like MLM but OK" page on Facebook. The one that sticks out the most was a woman, so convinced by the magical silver properties, proceeded to clean her toilet and then claim that the same, unwashed rag would be used in the shower later on as a washcloth!
They also don't wash these rags in soap, and they often filed complaints from customers using them as dishtowels, b/c ya know what? they smell funny after a while. Wonder why...
-
I don't think she'll be trying to sell us anything else for a while, and those free passes they've been getting once or twice a year? Yeah, they lost those too. Good luck with that MLM!
This quote just sums up the whole thread. When you become a pusher of this stuff, you lose...and it's more than just the money that you lose. The passes are just representative of so much more like friendship, respect, etc. etc. etc. Sorry to get all philosophical here. LOL!
-
Maybe the exposure of LuLaRoe shed some light on how bad these are?
I hope so. They did explode in a very public way. Unfortunately it seems like every 5 years or so something else pops up. Remember Pampered Chef?
Pampered Chef is 100% still going, just not as popular. But I've been invited to a PC party every 1.5 years or so.
Oh yeah. Past month I got invited to a cousins bridal shower that was through Pampered Chef. It was all, you can come pick out your gift for her in person (from her wish list). I'm going to pick a gift out in front of the bride to be? At that point, why am I not giving cash? And I'm sure there would also be an opportunity to get myself the same item... ans if you couldn't make it in person, dont worry, her wish list is also online!
I was wondering how she got sucked in to this... poked around on Facebook and figured it out
Really I am related to the groom for this wedding, and his sister is hosting the shower. She got married last year and her new mother in law is a pampered Chef consultant.
-
[/quote]
[cousin's briadal shower] her new mother in law is a pampered Chef consultant.
[/quote]
This sucks. And I get it. I mean, if they actually believe it's their own business with items they want, then of course they prefer gifts from there instead of Bed, Bath and Beyond, etc. After all, why enrich that family when you can do so for your own?
-
Maybe the exposure of LuLaRoe shed some light on how bad these are?
I hope so. They did explode in a very public way. Unfortunately it seems like every 5 years or so something else pops up. Remember Pampered Chef?
Pampered Chef is 100% still going, just not as popular. But I've been invited to a PC party every 1.5 years or so.
Oh yeah. Past month I got invited to a cousins bridal shower that was through Pampered Chef. It was all, you can come pick out your gift for her in person (from her wish list). I'm going to pick a gift out in front of the bride to be? At that point, why am I not giving cash? And I'm sure there would also be an opportunity to get myself the same item... ans if you couldn't make it in person, dont worry, her wish list is also online!
I was wondering how she got sucked in to this... poked around on Facebook and figured it out
Really I am related to the groom for this wedding, and his sister is hosting the shower. She got married last year and her new mother in law is a pampered Chef consultant.
Oh, that’s a new one. I think I would respectfully decline the invitation and give cash at the wedding.
-
Saw in invite to a "damsel in defense" party. This is apparently an MLM that sells stun guns, pepper spray, etc.
"Please join me on July 20th for a Damsel in Defense Party! Damsel in Defense offers self-defense products such as stun guns, pepper spray, personal alarms and other products. The products are great for realtors, college students, individuals who walk to work in the city, etc. Please pm for details on the party which will have great food and drinks! Also a chance to meet others. Here is the link to the online party."
-
Saw in invite to a "damsel in defense" party. This is apparently an MLM that sells stun guns, pepper spray, etc.
"Please join me on July 20th for a Damsel in Defense Party! Damsel in Defense offers self-defense products such as stun guns, pepper spray, personal alarms and other products. The products are great for realtors, college students, individuals who walk to work in the city, etc. Please pm for details on the party which will have great food and drinks! Also a chance to meet others. Here is the link to the online party."
How hilarious would it be if all the ladies just started tazing, striking and spraying like crazy?
-
Maybe the exposure of LuLaRoe shed some light on how bad these are?
I hope so. They did explode in a very public way. Unfortunately it seems like every 5 years or so something else pops up. Remember Pampered Chef?
Pampered Chef is 100% still going, just not as popular. But I've been invited to a PC party every 1.5 years or so.
Oh yeah. Past month I got invited to a cousins bridal shower that was through Pampered Chef. It was all, you can come pick out your gift for her in person (from her wish list). I'm going to pick a gift out in front of the bride to be? At that point, why am I not giving cash? And I'm sure there would also be an opportunity to get myself the same item... ans if you couldn't make it in person, dont worry, her wish list is also online!
I was wondering how she got sucked in to this... poked around on Facebook and figured it out
Really I am related to the groom for this wedding, and his sister is hosting the shower. She got married last year and her new mother in law is a pampered Chef consultant.
Oh, that’s a new one. I think I would respectfully decline the invitation and give cash at the wedding.
I probably would have anyways, and luckily I am out of state an 8hr drive from most family functions. So showers are skipped unless it's a very close family member. Close people get a gift at the shower and cash at the wedding, others get cash or gift card where they are registered, a little more since I skipped the shower. I like a lot of my pampered chef stuff my mom passed to me, but theres a lot of decent knock offs now! I would not be doing a registry there...
-
[cousin's briadal shower] her new mother in law is a pampered Chef consultant.
[/quote]
This sucks. And I get it. I mean, if they actually believe it's their own business with items they want, then of course they prefer gifts from there instead of Bed, Bath and Beyond, etc. After all, why enrich that family when you can do so for your own?
[/quote]
Yeah... but the bride to be is not directly related to the consultant. It's a tad confusing, but the brides soon to be sister in laws mother in law is the consultant. I dont know if that's any less confusing lol
-
[cousin's briadal shower] her new mother in law is a pampered Chef consultant.
the bride to be is not directly related to the consultant. It's a tad confusing, but the brides soon to be sister in laws mother in law is the consultant. I dont know if that's any less confusing lol
[/quote]
Ah, I see. The bride is now in the position of supporting her fiancée's mothers "business".
That is terrible. A no-win situation.
-
her new mother in law is a pampered Chef consultant.
Was Pampered Chef less ridiculous in the days before it was easy to order stuff on Amazon? I remember my mom buying a lot of stuff from it - and she is excellent at money - because it was genuinely good stuff and they had a lot of specialty items that you'd have to go to a cookware store for (at least an hour away from our house). In the current age of instant access for what you need, these parties are beyond stupid; but there WAS a time when many parties were likely providing genuinely needed stuff.
(This is obviously excluding companies that sell junk/crap that falls apart in two seconds. And I hate all things MLM. But it's easy to forget that procuring objects was a lot harder not that long ago.)
-
her new mother in law is a pampered Chef consultant.
Was Pampered Chef less ridiculous in the days before it was easy to order stuff on Amazon? I remember my mom buying a lot of stuff from it - and she is excellent at money - because it was genuinely good stuff and they had a lot of specialty items that you'd have to go to a cookware store for (at least an hour away from our house). In the current age of instant access for what you need, these parties are beyond stupid; but there WAS a time when many parties were likely providing genuinely needed stuff.
(This is obviously excluding companies that sell junk/crap that falls apart in two seconds. And I hate all things MLM. But it's easy to forget that procuring objects was a lot harder not that long ago.)
I think so. They do sell good quality items - their pizza stones are particularly well loved. I am surprised they've survived internet retail. Their prices can't possibly be competitive anymore.
-
woman is going to quit her 9-5
https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/advice/carolyn-hax-a-sisters-questionable-side-business-is-not-your-business/2019/07/11/064f9f2e-9cff-11e9-85d6-5211733f92c7_story.html?utm_term=.be03605c46a6
-
her new mother in law is a pampered Chef consultant.
Was Pampered Chef less ridiculous in the days before it was easy to order stuff on Amazon? I remember my mom buying a lot of stuff from it - and she is excellent at money - because it was genuinely good stuff and they had a lot of specialty items that you'd have to go to a cookware store for (at least an hour away from our house). In the current age of instant access for what you need, these parties are beyond stupid; but there WAS a time when many parties were likely providing genuinely needed stuff.
(This is obviously excluding companies that sell junk/crap that falls apart in two seconds. And I hate all things MLM. But it's easy to forget that procuring objects was a lot harder not that long ago.)
I think so. They do sell good quality items - their pizza stones are particularly well loved. I am surprised they've survived internet retail. Their prices can't possibly be competitive anymore.
I've got a few PC pieces that my mother-in-law gave me. I like them, but it's kind of like the Yeti cup that she also gave me; it's nice, but I'm not going to spend that much for it when there's something cheaper that works just as well.
-
When my PAmpered Chef can opener broke, I put a call out to Nextdoor for a Pampered Chef representative to contact me.
Crickets.
What a strange world it is when one wants to buy from an MLM company and one gets silence!
I ended up finding a can opener at Target or ? but it took me a couple models until I got one that was well-made solid and did what I wanted it to do.
-
When my PAmpered Chef can opener broke, I put a call out to Nextdoor for a Pampered Chef representative to contact me.
Crickets.
What a strange world it is when one wants to buy from an MLM company and one gets silence!
I ended up finding a can opener at Target or ? but it took me a couple models until I got one that was well-made solid and did what I wanted it to do.
Open cans? :)
-
When my PAmpered Chef can opener broke, I put a call out to Nextdoor for a Pampered Chef representative to contact me.
Crickets.
What a strange world it is when one wants to buy from an MLM company and one gets silence!
I ended up finding a can opener at Target or ? but it took me a couple models until I got one that was well-made solid and did what I wanted it to do.
Open cans? :)
Open cans with no ragged edge. Be sturdy and last a few years.
-
When my PAmpered Chef can opener broke, I put a call out to Nextdoor for a Pampered Chef representative to contact me.
Crickets.
What a strange world it is when one wants to buy from an MLM company and one gets silence!
I ended up finding a can opener at Target or ? but it took me a couple models until I got one that was well-made solid and did what I wanted it to do.
Open cans? :)
Open cans with no ragged edge. Be sturdy and last a few years.
Was just kidding, a good can opener is not easy to find.
Have you ever tried the lid opening style? Rather than cutting through the metal they separate the lid from the can just enough to break the adhesive seal, then you can lift the whole lid off. no cut edges and it's super consistent. Only draw back is if you like to push the lid down into the can for draining. Can't do that as the lid diameter is greater than the can diameter.
https://www.finecooking.com/article/equipment-review-smooth-edge-can-openers-are-a-cut-above
-
her new mother in law is a pampered Chef consultant.
Was Pampered Chef less ridiculous in the days before it was easy to order stuff on Amazon? I remember my mom buying a lot of stuff from it - and she is excellent at money - because it was genuinely good stuff and they had a lot of specialty items that you'd have to go to a cookware store for (at least an hour away from our house). In the current age of instant access for what you need, these parties are beyond stupid; but there WAS a time when many parties were likely providing genuinely needed stuff.
(This is obviously excluding companies that sell junk/crap that falls apart in two seconds. And I hate all things MLM. But it's easy to forget that procuring objects was a lot harder not that long ago.)
I think so. They do sell good quality items - their pizza stones are particularly well loved. I am surprised they've survived internet retail. Their prices can't possibly be competitive anymore.
The pizza stone my parents still use is the Pampered Chef one my mom got 20 years ago :)
-
The pizza stone my parents still use is the Pampered Chef one my mom got 20 years ago :)
FWIW, we got one for our wedding 16 years ago, and it has held up very, very well.
-
The pizza stone my parents still use is the Pampered Chef one my mom got 20 years ago :)
FWIW, we got one for our wedding 16 years ago, and it has held up very, very well.
To be fair, it's a stone. Except for dropping it or extreme temperature changes, what could go wrong?
-
The pizza stone my parents still use is the Pampered Chef one my mom got 20 years ago :)
FWIW, we got one for our wedding 16 years ago, and it has held up very, very well.
To be fair, it's a stone. Except for dropping it or extreme temperature changes, what could go wrong?
Heh :) Compared to others, it hasn't chipped, and it came with a smooth surface (better for not sticking) that has just gotten better with age.
-
I hope it's fine to make requests here, but can someone point me in the direction of some good links addressing how few people make any money in MLMs in general and Amway in particular? I have an acquaintance I was discussing FIRE topics with, and it turns out that this person's SO is involved with Amway, who apparently are also using "financial independence" related terminology in their pitches (sigh).
I am going to send some links explaining why MLMs/Amway are remarkably unlikely to deliver on the financial promises that they make, and I was also going to suggest that the person track their earnings/expenses carefully if they do end up continuing with it, since that's the only way to honestly determine whether it's actually profitable. Any other suggestions for points that I should consider making?
I don't have any delusions that I can convince someone to ditch Amway with one email, but I figure if there is anything I can do that might cause this person to leave Amway two years from now rather than in five years, then that's still a win. I know I've seen some discussions in this thread (and maybe other threads?) that seemed relevant, but I didn't want to parse through hundreds of replies to try to locate the best potential links if someone had good ones readily available.
-
I hope it's fine to make requests here, but can someone point me in the direction of some good links addressing how few people make any money in MLMs in general and Amway in particular? I have an acquaintance I was discussing FIRE topics with, and it turns out that this person's SO is involved with Amway, who apparently are also using "financial independence" related terminology in their pitches (sigh).
I am going to send some links explaining why MLMs/Amway are remarkably unlikely to deliver on the financial promises that they make, and I was also going to suggest that the person track their earnings/expenses carefully if they do end up continuing with it, since that's the only way to honestly determine whether it's actually profitable. Any other suggestions for points that I should consider making?
I don't have any delusions that I can convince someone to ditch Amway with one email, but I figure if there is anything I can do that might cause this person to leave Amway two years from now rather than in five years, then that's still a win. I know I've seen some discussions in this thread (and maybe other threads?) that seemed relevant, but I didn't want to parse through hundreds of replies to try to locate the best potential links if someone had good ones readily available.
A big problem you'll run into is that people, especially in Amway, have already been programmed that others are "negative" and never listen to someone with a "J.O.B.", and definitely don't track expenses and earnings because that's not the point, "it takes money to make money", and if you are dedicated, you might lose some at the beginning, but you just have to keep doing it and it will be worth it. It's cult level and the brainwashing is subtle at first, but intense.
All that said, they probably will not read any links you send, because the links are never true, just trust the upline, but...
The FTC report, long but lots of good stuff in there: https://www.ftc.gov/sites/default/files/documents/public_comments/trade-regulation-rule-disclosure-requirements-and-prohibitions-concerning-business-opportunities-ftc.r511993-00008%C2%A0/00008-57281.pdf
Also, look up "Merchants of Deception". The man who wrote it was a quick rising star in Amway, got in like the top 2%, found corruption, reported corruption, and they tried to tear him apart. He almost lost everything. Even at that level, he wasn't making enough money to cover basic bills. It's a (legal) free pdf download (he wants it spread far and wide). There are other versions for different e-readers as well, I believe.
-
I hope it's fine to make requests here, but can someone point me in the direction of some good links addressing how few people make any money in MLMs in general and Amway in particular? I have an acquaintance I was discussing FIRE topics with, and it turns out that this person's SO is involved with Amway, who apparently are also using "financial independence" related terminology in their pitches (sigh).
I am going to send some links explaining why MLMs/Amway are remarkably unlikely to deliver on the financial promises that they make, and I was also going to suggest that the person track their earnings/expenses carefully if they do end up continuing with it, since that's the only way to honestly determine whether it's actually profitable. Any other suggestions for points that I should consider making?
I don't have any delusions that I can convince someone to ditch Amway with one email, but I figure if there is anything I can do that might cause this person to leave Amway two years from now rather than in five years, then that's still a win. I know I've seen some discussions in this thread (and maybe other threads?) that seemed relevant, but I didn't want to parse through hundreds of replies to try to locate the best potential links if someone had good ones readily available.
A big problem you'll run into is that people, especially in Amway, have already been programmed that others are "negative" and never listen to someone with a "J.O.B.", and definitely don't track expenses and earnings because that's not the point, "it takes money to make money", and if you are dedicated, you might lose some at the beginning, but you just have to keep doing it and it will be worth it. It's cult level and the brainwashing is subtle at first, but intense.
All that said, they probably will not read any links you send, because the links are never true, just trust the upline, but...
The FTC report, long but lots of good stuff in there: https://www.ftc.gov/sites/default/files/documents/public_comments/trade-regulation-rule-disclosure-requirements-and-prohibitions-concerning-business-opportunities-ftc.r511993-00008%C2%A0/00008-57281.pdf
Also, look up "Merchants of Deception". The man who wrote it was a quick rising star in Amway, got in like the top 2%, found corruption, reported corruption, and they tried to tear him apart. He almost lost everything. Even at that level, he wasn't making enough money to cover basic bills. It's a (legal) free pdf download (he wants it spread far and wide). There are other versions for different e-readers as well, I believe.
Thank you! This is all very helpful; much appreciated.
-
I hope it's fine to make requests here, but can someone point me in the direction of some good links addressing how few people make any money in MLMs in general and Amway in particular? I have an acquaintance I was discussing FIRE topics with, and it turns out that this person's SO is involved with Amway, who apparently are also using "financial independence" related terminology in their pitches (sigh).
I am going to send some links explaining why MLMs/Amway are remarkably unlikely to deliver on the financial promises that they make, and I was also going to suggest that the person track their earnings/expenses carefully if they do end up continuing with it, since that's the only way to honestly determine whether it's actually profitable. Any other suggestions for points that I should consider making?
I don't have any delusions that I can convince someone to ditch Amway with one email, but I figure if there is anything I can do that might cause this person to leave Amway two years from now rather than in five years, then that's still a win. I know I've seen some discussions in this thread (and maybe other threads?) that seemed relevant, but I didn't want to parse through hundreds of replies to try to locate the best potential links if someone had good ones readily available.
A big problem you'll run into is that people, especially in Amway, have already been programmed that others are "negative" and never listen to someone with a "J.O.B.", and definitely don't track expenses and earnings because that's not the point, "it takes money to make money", and if you are dedicated, you might lose some at the beginning, but you just have to keep doing it and it will be worth it. It's cult level and the brainwashing is subtle at first, but intense.
All that said, they probably will not read any links you send, because the links are never true, just trust the upline, but...
The FTC report, long but lots of good stuff in there: https://www.ftc.gov/sites/default/files/documents/public_comments/trade-regulation-rule-disclosure-requirements-and-prohibitions-concerning-business-opportunities-ftc.r511993-00008%C2%A0/00008-57281.pdf
Also, look up "Merchants of Deception". The man who wrote it was a quick rising star in Amway, got in like the top 2%, found corruption, reported corruption, and they tried to tear him apart. He almost lost everything. Even at that level, he wasn't making enough money to cover basic bills. It's a (legal) free pdf download (he wants it spread far and wide). There are other versions for different e-readers as well, I believe.
Thank you! This is all very helpful; much appreciated.
Look on Page 2 of this thread. There are a couple color charts that show a particular MLM where 80% of the members make $400/year. The only people making enough to be considered successful in that particular business have to be either officers in the company or have down-lines consisting of dozens of people. Compensation distributions like that are typical of MLMs.
-
I hope it's fine to make requests here, but can someone point me in the direction of some good links addressing how few people make any money in MLMs in general and Amway in particular? I have an acquaintance I was discussing FIRE topics with, and it turns out that this person's SO is involved with Amway, who apparently are also using "financial independence" related terminology in their pitches (sigh).
I am going to send some links explaining why MLMs/Amway are remarkably unlikely to deliver on the financial promises that they make, and I was also going to suggest that the person track their earnings/expenses carefully if they do end up continuing with it, since that's the only way to honestly determine whether it's actually profitable. Any other suggestions for points that I should consider making?
I don't have any delusions that I can convince someone to ditch Amway with one email, but I figure if there is anything I can do that might cause this person to leave Amway two years from now rather than in five years, then that's still a win. I know I've seen some discussions in this thread (and maybe other threads?) that seemed relevant, but I didn't want to parse through hundreds of replies to try to locate the best potential links if someone had good ones readily available.
A big problem you'll run into is that people, especially in Amway, have already been programmed that others are "negative" and never listen to someone with a "J.O.B.", and definitely don't track expenses and earnings because that's not the point, "it takes money to make money", and if you are dedicated, you might lose some at the beginning, but you just have to keep doing it and it will be worth it. It's cult level and the brainwashing is subtle at first, but intense.
All that said, they probably will not read any links you send, because the links are never true, just trust the upline, but...
The FTC report, long but lots of good stuff in there: https://www.ftc.gov/sites/default/files/documents/public_comments/trade-regulation-rule-disclosure-requirements-and-prohibitions-concerning-business-opportunities-ftc.r511993-00008%C2%A0/00008-57281.pdf
Also, look up "Merchants of Deception". The man who wrote it was a quick rising star in Amway, got in like the top 2%, found corruption, reported corruption, and they tried to tear him apart. He almost lost everything. Even at that level, he wasn't making enough money to cover basic bills. It's a (legal) free pdf download (he wants it spread far and wide). There are other versions for different e-readers as well, I believe.
Thank you! This is all very helpful; much appreciated.
Look on Page 2 of this thread. There are a couple color charts that show a particular MLM where 80% of the members make $400/year. The only people making enough to be considered successful in that particular business have to be either officers in the company or have down-lines consisting of dozens of people. Compensation distributions like that are typical of MLMs.
Thanks. Seeing the (horrifying) info for the Plexus distributors helped me figure out the right terms to plug into Google to find the similar available information for Amway. This third-party compilation of Amway Earnings Disclosure Statements was very helpful: http://www.sequenceinc.com/fraudfiles/amway-earnings-disclosure-statements/ (http://www.sequenceinc.com/fraudfiles/amway-earnings-disclosure-statements/)
Similar information is also available on some of Amway's official websites, which seems helpful for responding to the inevitable objection that people are lying about Amway. See https://www.amway.com/lcl/en/ResourceCenterDocuments/Visitor/opp-amw-cat-v-en--AmwayBusinessOverviewBrochure.pdf (https://www.amway.com/lcl/en/ResourceCenterDocuments/Visitor/opp-amw-cat-v-en--AmwayBusinessOverviewBrochure.pdf) and https://www.amway.co.uk/_cms-fileserver/item/1500475 (https://www.amway.co.uk/_cms-fileserver/item/1500475)
Even if I don't expect it to be immediately persuasive, maybe this information will help the person realize they're being taken advantage of in the nearer future than would otherwise be the case.
-
I hope it's fine to make requests here, but can someone point me in the direction of some good links addressing how few people make any money in MLMs in general and Amway in particular? I have an acquaintance I was discussing FIRE topics with, and it turns out that this person's SO is involved with Amway, who apparently are also using "financial independence" related terminology in their pitches (sigh).
I am going to send some links explaining why MLMs/Amway are remarkably unlikely to deliver on the financial promises that they make, and I was also going to suggest that the person track their earnings/expenses carefully if they do end up continuing with it, since that's the only way to honestly determine whether it's actually profitable. Any other suggestions for points that I should consider making?
I don't have any delusions that I can convince someone to ditch Amway with one email, but I figure if there is anything I can do that might cause this person to leave Amway two years from now rather than in five years, then that's still a win. I know I've seen some discussions in this thread (and maybe other threads?) that seemed relevant, but I didn't want to parse through hundreds of replies to try to locate the best potential links if someone had good ones readily available.
You are correct. You cannot convince them, so just let it run its course.
Example: A friend pitched me on the Amway Visa years back. The rewards were a compensation of 1% "BV". If you bought $1,000 of stuff, you got 10 BV, which grossed you a taxable $0.30, compared to a tax-free $10.00 on any other cash back card. He mentioned there was a 50 BV bonus for signing up. I tried to show him the 10,000 JetBlue pts I just got, which could fly me round trip to a couple places.
But, there was nothing I could say or do.
In the end, I said, "I'll sign up for the CC if there's no annual fee." He was ecstatic, like I'd made a huge order. The card came in and I tossed it.
Books you can read, and other resources (for you, not your friend; they won't listen):
- Merchants of Deception: By a former Emerald IBO who netted something like $20,000 a year. His book led to huge increases in the Amway compensation plan for people at his level. It also exposed that the real money being made was by whoever ran things like seminars, etc.
- Behind the Smoke and Mirrors: Written by a former Amway person who was the personal assistant for a big wig in her upline. She discovered it was all just a show. They'd make something like $100,000 a year from Amway, and maybe another $400,000 a year with stadium events.
- Sadly, even with all this income, they lived like they made 2x that, flying in private jets, and buying new mansions.
- IRS info. There was a report years ago that the average Platinum in Amway operated at a loss. This isn't hard to believe, particularly if they are working hard to get to the next level and just living off of their regular job income, unless you're in Amway, then it's all hard to believe.
It would be funny if it wasn't so sad.
-
You have to understand that people don't go into MLM to "make money". On some level they understand it's a lottery. They go into MLM to have a vague hope of someday striking it rich, while being able to spruik the lifestyle benefits of not having to work in an office environment. MLM is for people with poor self-perception who are seeking to tell themselves they are important.
-
You have to understand that people don't go into MLM to "make money". On some level they understand it's a lottery. They go into MLM to have a vague hope of someday striking it rich, while being able to spruik the lifestyle benefits of not having to work in an office environment. MLM is for people with poor self-perception who are seeking to tell themselves they are important.
Actually A LOT of people go into MLM to make money, especially stay at home moms.
-
https://www.stitcher.com/podcast/stitcher/the-dream
That was entertaining...
-
One that I almost was fooled by (as a 12 year old athlete with big dreams of making it™️) was the MonaVie açaí berry (“superfruit”) juice. 😂 I searched them up recently—they went under several years ago.
There was a lady driving around our town a few years ago, about 60 yrs old i guess, but she looked Rough !, rode hard and put away wet, too many nights smoking at the bar - anyhow she drove around in a beat-up Geo Metro with huge MonaVie lettering on the side. The 1st impression was that she got into the 'superfruit' too late. the 2nd impression was she was not making any money, given her rattletrap of a vehicle. I suppose she could've been eschewing owning a "nice" car, but i doubt it....
Laughing way too hard at this. Hope that lady's doing better nowadays. The mom who sold it on our sports team was definitely not in it for the money--her husband made big $$$. She probably just wanted to get the discount/member's price for products so she could give them to her own kid athlete.
-
The Administrative Officer at work brought in the Norwex catalogs yesterday. I don't know if she is actually the "seller." She did ask me once if I wanted to order anything, I said no. The other Admin person was buying. I wonder if she asked the two men in the office if they were interested.
-
An auditor came into our office and on the way out gives a catalog to an accountant her age, saying she thought she might be interested. The accountant smiled and thanked her.
"Can you believe her?" the accountant asked. "She has some nerve."
I was young so didn't understand, but the accountant explained that here they hired her for her independent auditing services, and she breaches protocol by crossing a line that could put everything into question.
Also, what kind of an idiot is going around making hundreds of dollars per hour and then does MLM on the side? It's ridiculous.
-
After a lengthy period of not seeing any MLM related stuff on Facebook, I think one has crept into my feed. Three different people, who don't know each other to the best of my knowledge, have posted recently about this incredible tooth whitening paste that is amazing and they will never switch back to conventional toothpaste. If I want to know more, I just have to comment and some other person will reach out with information.
No idea what this company is, but the posts are all so similarly vague that is has to be an MLM. I'm curious which company this is to see if my suspicions are correct, but not curious enough to sign myself up for the sales pitch to find out.
-
I'm just going to leave this here. Posted in my neighbourhood facebook group. In for a penny, in for a moving truck.
-
You have to understand that people don't go into MLM to "make money". On some level they understand it's a lottery. They go into MLM to have a vague hope of someday striking it rich, while being able to spruik the lifestyle benefits of not having to work in an office environment. MLM is for people with poor self-perception who are seeking to tell themselves they are important.
I disagee. Most of the people I know who do this are looking for supplemental income, not massive riches. They figure they can SAH with kids and bring in $10,000 a year, which seems like a modest and therefore realistic number, in order to help out their family. Or something along those things. Or they already have a regular job and see this as a side hustle. Spend 10-12 hours a week and make $10,000 to boost their finances.
I think that's part of why they are so attractive and dangerous. These are otherwise realistic people, so they'd never bite on something promising them $300k/year. That would clearly be too good to be true. But thinking they can make $5-$15k? It's easy to believe that's realistic precisely because it's a modest number.
-
I'm just going to leave this here. Posted in my neighbourhood facebook group. In for a penny, in for a moving truck.
Is that allowed? In my country you'd need a license for vehicle such as this to sell from locations. Then you'd have to worry about shopfront associations of shopping centers if you park too close because they don't want to compete with someone who doesn't pay their rent and such.
-
I think that's part of why they are so attractive and dangerous. These are otherwise realistic people, so they'd never bite on something promising them $300k/year. That would clearly be too good to be true. But thinking they can make $5-$15k? It's easy to believe that's realistic precisely because it's a modest number.
From what I've seen, you are correct. The "best" marketing I've seen for MLMs talks about earning enough income to become a SAHM (never a SAHD, by the way) or frames it as a side-hustle to supplement the family budget. The "drive a Ferrari and live in a mansion" stuff is out there, but the really good recruiters go for people with modest expectations.
-
After a lengthy period of not seeing any MLM related stuff on Facebook, I think one has crept into my feed. Three different people, who don't know each other to the best of my knowledge, have posted recently about this incredible tooth whitening paste that is amazing and they will never switch back to conventional toothpaste. If I want to know more, I just have to comment and some other person will reach out with information.
No idea what this company is, but the posts are all so similarly vague that is has to be an MLM. I'm curious which company this is to see if my suspicions are correct, but not curious enough to sign myself up for the sales pitch to find out.
It's NuSkin, and you can buy it on Amazon. The reviews indicate that it's a crappy toothpaste, but that seems to be pretty much the status quo on many MLM products these days.
-
After a lengthy period of not seeing any MLM related stuff on Facebook, I think one has crept into my feed. Three different people, who don't know each other to the best of my knowledge, have posted recently about this incredible tooth whitening paste that is amazing and they will never switch back to conventional toothpaste. If I want to know more, I just have to comment and some other person will reach out with information.
No idea what this company is, but the posts are all so similarly vague that is has to be an MLM. I'm curious which company this is to see if my suspicions are correct, but not curious enough to sign myself up for the sales pitch to find out.
It's NuSkin, and you can buy it on Amazon. The reviews indicate that it's a crappy toothpaste, but that seems to be pretty much the status quo on many MLM products these days.
MLM products cannot escape legit reviews. I once patronized a local vitamin shop, and the lady advised I try this really good product for $40, saying that all the guys at the mill nearby used it to keep their energy and health up. So I did, but only took 1 pill instead of the 3 she said to take.
I had a pain in my kidneys and lit up the bathroom with neon pee. After a week, I tossed it, then saw I could review it, and thought it would be best to do so.
Despite having very few reviews, many extremely helpful people chimed in to tell me I was (1) using the vitamins wrong, (2) didn't understand vitamins, (3) was a negative person, and (4) that everything I was saying was suspect because I was bashing this great business.
Seeing the passion of these everyday consumers, I looked up the brand and came to find it's an MLM.
-
After a lengthy period of not seeing any MLM related stuff on Facebook, I think one has crept into my feed. Three different people, who don't know each other to the best of my knowledge, have posted recently about this incredible tooth whitening paste that is amazing and they will never switch back to conventional toothpaste. If I want to know more, I just have to comment and some other person will reach out with information.
No idea what this company is, but the posts are all so similarly vague that is has to be an MLM. I'm curious which company this is to see if my suspicions are correct, but not curious enough to sign myself up for the sales pitch to find out.
It's NuSkin, and you can buy it on Amazon. The reviews indicate that it's a crappy toothpaste, but that seems to be pretty much the status quo on many MLM products these days.
I find the idea of a toothpaste with "skin" in the brand name terrifying.
Right? I thought Nu Skin was one of those liquid bandage products.
-
After a lengthy period of not seeing any MLM related stuff on Facebook, I think one has crept into my feed. Three different people, who don't know each other to the best of my knowledge, have posted recently about this incredible tooth whitening paste that is amazing and they will never switch back to conventional toothpaste. If I want to know more, I just have to comment and some other person will reach out with information.
No idea what this company is, but the posts are all so similarly vague that is has to be an MLM. I'm curious which company this is to see if my suspicions are correct, but not curious enough to sign myself up for the sales pitch to find out.
It's NuSkin, and you can buy it on Amazon. The reviews indicate that it's a crappy toothpaste, but that seems to be pretty much the status quo on many MLM products these days.
MLM products cannot escape legit reviews. I once patronized a local vitamin shop, and the lady advised I try this really good product for $40, saying that all the guys at the mill nearby used it to keep their energy and health up. So I did, but only took 1 pill instead of the 3 she said to take.
I had a pain in my kidneys and lit up the bathroom with neon pee. After a week, I tossed it, then saw I could review it, and thought it would be best to do so.
Despite having very few reviews, many extremely helpful people chimed in to tell me I was (1) using the vitamins wrong, (2) didn't understand vitamins, (3) was a negative person, and (4) that everything I was saying was suspect because I was bashing this great business.
Seeing the passion of these everyday consumers, I looked up the brand and came to find it's an MLM.
How in the world is it possible to use the vitamins wrong? They're pills. You swallow them. It's not complicated. What were you supposed to do, cram them up your ass or something? Is that how *they* take their vitamins?
-
I think that's part of why they are so attractive and dangerous. These are otherwise realistic people, so they'd never bite on something promising them $300k/year. That would clearly be too good to be true. But thinking they can make $5-$15k? It's easy to believe that's realistic precisely because it's a modest number.
From what I've seen, you are correct. The "best" marketing I've seen for MLMs talks about earning enough income to become a SAHM (never a SAHD, by the way) or frames it as a side-hustle to supplement the family budget. The "drive a Ferrari and live in a mansion" stuff is out there, but the really good recruiters go for people with modest expectations.
I've only seen it as a "side hustle," usually a mother who was already interested in the product (likes to cook = Pampered chef; trying to lose weight = Beachbody; already spends a lot on skincare = Rodan Fields, etc) thinking she cover her own costs and maybe a little extra. But it's usually people who appear to be living beyond their means already. So it makes me sad.
-
How in the world is it possible to use the vitamins wrong? They're pills. You swallow them. It's not complicated. What were you supposed to do, cram them up your ass or something? Is that how *they* take their vitamins?
To have had a bad experience is to be wrong. And that's why this sort of thing doesn't work with normal people. You either have to be too far in, or not at all.
-
I had a little evil snigger to myself this week.
A few months ago someone I hadn't seen before posted a benign question on a Facebook running group I'm a member of. Some of the diehards in that group can be cruel to people asking rookie questions so I gave her a sensible answer and she friended me and initiated a Messenger chat. Guessing that she was just being enthusiastic, I chatted for a bit about races and melted away when she drifted into "burning calories" territory because I wasn't going to risk getting caught up in eating-disordered talk. She posted a few other benign questions in the group then started putting up posts like, "Snacking is a message to your body to store fat." I'm guessing the mods intervened since that sort of stuff is way off topic.
Then she started making cryptic posts outside the group about how, for less than the cost of a daily Starbucks, she could promise weight loss, forever, without dieting. The magic ingredient was one cup of coffee a day! And we'd be supporting a real person's small business instead of lining the pockets of Big Coffee! And she had been studying nutrition in depth for her entire life and this product she'd developed was The Real Deal! The accompanying photos didn't show the product.
In the meantime, a girl who'd been at school with one of my daughters (early 20s now, pleasant lass, couple of kids) posted an almost identical cryptic message in the local Facebook buying and selling group (without the lifelong study of nutrition bit, because most folk in the group have known her since she was in nappies and would have called her out). The whiff of rodent intensified and I said to Google, "Is this an MLM?" Google replied, "Yes, it could be any one of half a dozen," and provided a list. I was quite excited. I hadn't seen an MLM in the wild since the days of Tupperware parties.
Bless her, the lass from the running group is trying SO hard to sell her magic coffee using all the predictable angles. She's only got a couple of spaces in one of her "weight loss groups", sign up before it's too late! She's got lots of women but could do with another couple of men in her groups for balance, come on boys, you know you want to lose that belly permanently! And she posted a before and after photo which appeared to promise that if you took this product every day for ONLY TWO WEEKS you'd learn how to switch on the bathroom light, your posture would improve beyond recognition, and your tattoos would disappear without a trace. There doesn't appear to be a lot of interest.
The most recent post was a photo of ice cream cones, with an observation of, "Ha ha the kids had ice cream and I was so good I resisted I just had my coffee." I came within a hairsbreadth of pointing out that if her magic slimming coffee did what she claimed, it would be unnecessary to refrain from eating ice cream, and if her coffee only worked if you used it to replace ice cream the slimming diet industry had sussed that trick more than a century ago. But I'm sitting on my hands and waiting to see what happens next. I'm assuming it's a "bored housewife, small financial commitment" situation and fair game for entertainment.
-
How in the world is it possible to use the vitamins wrong? They're pills. You swallow them. It's not complicated. What were you supposed to do, cram them up your ass or something? Is that how *they* take their vitamins?
Everything is special in the MLM world. Monat reps claim that people aren't using their shampoo correctly, they need to buy additional products to minimize the detox effect of women losing their hair. The LipSense huns swear that you aren't applying their lipstick properly when the alcohol in the product causes people to have burns and scarring on their lips. Btw, that's also a temporary detox effect, you just have to suffer on through and then you'll love the product! And LLR actually went so far as to put tags in their crap clothing stating "don't put me in the dryer or else you'll be sad". Washer too, actually. Color runs and the cheap fabric completely disintegrating in the dryer are well known issues, always caused by the buyer washing them wrong. It's NEVER the product!
To have had a bad experience is to be wrong. And that's why this sort of thing doesn't work with normal people. You either have to be too far in, or not at all.
-
How in the world is it possible to use the vitamins wrong? They're pills. You swallow them. It's not complicated. What were you supposed to do, cram them up your ass or something? Is that how *they* take their vitamins?
Are you telling me you have to take those pills orally?! No wonder they weren't doing anything for my! And there I thought the big pills were suppositories because of their size, who knew...
/s
-
...................The whiff of rodent intensified....................
This was pure gold.
-
How in the world is it possible to use the vitamins wrong? They're pills. You swallow them. It's not complicated. What were you supposed to do, cram them up your ass or something? Is that how *they* take their vitamins?
Everything is special in the MLM world. Monat reps claim that people aren't using their shampoo correctly, they need to buy additional products to minimize the detox effect of women losing their hair. The LipSense huns swear that you aren't applying their lipstick properly when the alcohol in the product causes people to have burns and scarring on their lips. Btw, that's also a temporary detox effect, you just have to suffer on through and then you'll love the product! And LLR actually went so far as to put tags in their crap clothing stating "don't put me in the dryer or else you'll be sad". Washer too, actually. Color runs and the cheap fabric completely disintegrating in the dryer are well known issues, always caused by the buyer washing them wrong. It's NEVER the product!
To have had a bad experience is to be wrong. And that's why this sort of thing doesn't work with normal people. You either have to be too far in, or not at all.
Amway had Double X vitamins, which I actually thought were good, but if you had a sensitive stomach it was too potent. But say that and you just have a bad attitude.
-
This is so depressing... a couple girls I know are now into Thrive - something something ENERGY <insert emojis> something something LOSE WEIGHT <more emojis> three easy steps: Pills, shake and a skin patch. This 'vitamin' company seems to have diversified recently, as I see more and more about skin products.
Girl A: Just recently reached '4k level' and there was much jubilation... a quick look at those commenting show they are all her Thrive up/down lines.
Girl B: Had pictures taken at fancy car dealership, posing by a very expensive vehicle and saying something about visualizing your success etc.
It breaks my heart.
-
A couple years ago I had someone try to sell me some MLM coffee.
Working in my yard, an older gentleman pulls up and comes to talk to me. Introduces himself and start talking about his family and how his brother is a local business owner (I live in a small town) and other small talk.
Then he shows me the coffee and starts talking about it. How it has cured so many of his aliments, more energy, weight loss, etc. Basically, this coffee is pure magic.
I instantly recognize it as an MLM, but am polite and keep listening. He has a sample pack and thinks I should give it a try and see the benefits. Really pushing it into my hands. Being polite, I accept the sample pack and keep chatting.
I say thanks, nice to meet you, ect. Then he says, "that sample pack is $10". Can't remember exactly how many samples, but seemed overpriced. I hand him back the samples and say I'm not interested in paying for this.
He takes the sample and walks back to his truck. Wife and I have a good laugh afterward about the magic coffee.
-
...................The whiff of rodent intensified....................
This was pure gold.
Wholeheartedly agree. My favorite was
And she posted a before and after photo which appeared to promise that if you took this product every day for ONLY TWO WEEKS you'd learn how to switch on the bathroom light, your posture would improve beyond recognition, and your tattoos would disappear without a trace. There doesn't appear to be a lot of interest.
Thanks, TartanTallulah, made my day!
-
Despite having very few reviews, many extremely helpful people chimed in to tell me I was (1) using the vitamins wrong, (2) didn't understand vitamins, (3) was a negative person, and (4) that everything I was saying was suspect because I was bashing this great business.
Seeing the passion of these everyday consumers, I looked up the brand and came to find it's an MLM.
If only the key to a successful business was an emotional attachment to the product.
-
After a lengthy period of not seeing any MLM related stuff on Facebook, I think one has crept into my feed. Three different people, who don't know each other to the best of my knowledge, have posted recently about this incredible tooth whitening paste that is amazing and they will never switch back to conventional toothpaste. If I want to know more, I just have to comment and some other person will reach out with information.
No idea what this company is, but the posts are all so similarly vague that is has to be an MLM. I'm curious which company this is to see if my suspicions are correct, but not curious enough to sign myself up for the sales pitch to find out.
It's NuSkin, and you can buy it on Amazon. The reviews indicate that it's a crappy toothpaste, but that seems to be pretty much the status quo on many MLM products these days.
I find the idea of a toothpaste with "skin" in the brand name terrifying.
Yeah. NuSkin is basically thick Super Glue. I think someone is having a laugh trying to get other people to put it in their mouths.
-
After a lengthy period of not seeing any MLM related stuff on Facebook, I think one has crept into my feed. Three different people, who don't know each other to the best of my knowledge, have posted recently about this incredible tooth whitening paste that is amazing and they will never switch back to conventional toothpaste. If I want to know more, I just have to comment and some other person will reach out with information.
No idea what this company is, but the posts are all so similarly vague that is has to be an MLM. I'm curious which company this is to see if my suspicions are correct, but not curious enough to sign myself up for the sales pitch to find out.
It's NuSkin, and you can buy it on Amazon. The reviews indicate that it's a crappy toothpaste, but that seems to be pretty much the status quo on many MLM products these days.
I find the idea of a toothpaste with "skin" in the brand name terrifying.
Yeah. NuSkin is basically thick Super Glue. I think someone is having a laugh trying to get other people to put it in their mouths.
Gross! Not that I was planning on trying it before, but I am absolutely not now!
-
...................The whiff of rodent intensified....................
This was pure gold.
Wholeheartedly agree. My favorite was
And she posted a before and after photo which appeared to promise that if you took this product every day for ONLY TWO WEEKS you'd learn how to switch on the bathroom light, your posture would improve beyond recognition, and your tattoos would disappear without a trace. There doesn't appear to be a lot of interest.
Thanks, TartanTallulah, made my day!
Yeah, magic coffee lady is still all over my feed (former Beachbody coach). She's making so much money and it's a great time to get into the biz!
Until you saturate the market and stop earning money, but ok. But at least she flat out says it's an MLM.
-
Two family members are at an MLM convention right now. They’re learning how to promote even better. They each already post multiple things on social media every day about the product (makeup), and half of their non makeup posts are designed to get them more engagement and more comments ("what should I buy, a or b?") so that more eyes see the makeup posts. I find it all a stretch of the social contract.
They say they love it. They are both deeply in debt and, I think, actually making some money at this, but not nearly as much as they believe after expenses/taxes/Time spent. (To be fair, they are very good at selling this stuff and they look amazing in photos. In person I think the opposite, and heading them talk offline about the weird rashes they’ve gotten from too much product is an additional turn off.) Their separate money situations seem to get worse each year instead of better, though. I hope that’s not true. One is in the other's downline.
I suspect a third family member may be at a different MLM conventionthis same weekend. She has done a lot of MLMs. She earnestly wants to help her family finances but can’t seem to see that this isn’t helping. At one point her husband emailed everyone in the family and implored us to buy her products so that she could fulfill her dream of being a SAHM. I nicely replied that my own dreams of a financially secure family didn’t allow me to buy what she was selling. (Might have been those itworks fat melting wraps? Or makeup? Or health tinctures?)
Of course, I care about these people and their lives and their kids, so I want to see that stuff and don’t like to unfollow. But sigh.
-
I grow tired of seeing AdvoCare idiots literally everywhere I go. "We build Morons."
Brother-in-Law sells the crap. He is about 400lbs and when he wants to lose weight, he just uses some crap, drops 20-30lbs, then gains it right back.
I just want to tell him to "just walk man, quit eating bacon."
-
I grow tired of seeing AdvoCare idiots literally everywhere I go. "We build Morons."
Brother-in-Law sells the crap. He is about 400lbs and when he wants to lose weight, he just uses some crap, drops 20-30lbs, then gains it right back.
I just want to tell him to "just walk man, quit eating bacon."
I'm guessing AdvoCare will start to die out soon. They had to (chose to?) give up the MLM part of the company after talks with the FTC. All the people who built their pyramid empire by recruiting others will no longer get earnings from those people. They will only get the earnings from what they can sell for themselves, which, for most MLM participants, isn't much, if anything at all.
In looking up some links for the AdvoCare issue, I found some reading material for today (looks like he's done a series of anti-MLM posts)... https://www.lazymanandmoney.com/advocare-forced-by-ftc-to-end-its-scam/
Also found a sad, pro-MLM website, questioning everything about it, so many people defending the model. Including this comment (which was not the worst, by any means, it just shows how much they've been brainwashed).
Why would you put blood, sweat and tears into training a distributor just to have that distributor now leave your group and go out capture market share from you using what you have given them.
We all need to fight back with all that is in us against government officials that have no idea how to build a viable group of distributors to move product and award the person who built it.
Real businesses try to avoid over-saturation. They don't flood their local market by recruiting people to do the exact same job they do, selling the exact same stuff they do, in the exact same location they do, for the exact same actual CEO. They (usually) want every business to be able to succeed in every location. They don't build a bunch of the same stores on the same street and spout on about how this one store is succeeding, so yours can too, while ignoring the fact that all the other stores on that street are failing, and giving the succeeding store most of their profits, is the only real reason the star store is doing well.
-
Real businesses try to avoid over-saturation. They don't flood their local market by recruiting people to do the exact same job they do, selling the exact same stuff they do, in the exact same location they do, for the exact same actual CEO. They (usually) want every business to be able to succeed in every location. They don't build a bunch of the same stores on the same street and spout on about how this one store is succeeding, so yours can too, while ignoring the fact that all the other stores on that street are failing, and giving the succeeding store most of their profits, is the only real reason the star store is doing well.
That's also a key thing to look for in terms of franchise businesses, if you're ever in the market for one as part of a FI strategy. One of the guarantees that a franchise owner gets is that he or she will be the only franchisee within a specific radius. This introduces a "cost to exchange" that deters the customer from deciding to shop at another location instead. The better the franchise, the wider the radius. Subway, for example, is notorious for allowing new franchisees to set up shop close enough to an existing franchise to interfere with the first franchisee's business. Of course even a sizable exclusivity radius in a franchise agreement doesn't mean someone else won't build a nearly-identical business next door. I do see that some retail and commercial landlords try to take it into account... mall food courts come to mind. But the MLM model of sales, with people recruiting their own competition, flies right in the face of the non-compete principle.
-
Real businesses try to avoid over-saturation. They don't flood their local market by recruiting people to do the exact same job they do, selling the exact same stuff they do, in the exact same location they do, for the exact same actual CEO. They (usually) want every business to be able to succeed in every location. They don't build a bunch of the same stores on the same street and spout on about how this one store is succeeding, so yours can too, while ignoring the fact that all the other stores on that street are failing, and giving the succeeding store most of their profits, is the only real reason the star store is doing well.
That's also a key thing to look for in terms of franchise businesses, if you're ever in the market for one as part of a FI strategy. One of the guarantees that a franchise owner gets is that he or she will be the only franchisee within a specific radius. This introduces a "cost to exchange" that deters the customer from deciding to shop at another location instead. The better the franchise, the wider the radius. Subway, for example, is notorious for allowing new franchisees to set up shop close enough to an existing franchise to interfere with the first franchisee's business. Of course even a sizable exclusivity radius in a franchise agreement doesn't mean someone else won't build a nearly-identical business next door. I do see that some retail and commercial landlords try to take it into account... mall food courts come to mind. But the MLM model of sales, with people recruiting their own competition, flies right in the face of the non-compete principle.
Franchises definitely came to mind while writing that post, and some are very much better than others about making sure an area isn't over-saturated.
I remember reading about when Lularoe had a map of distributors. It was only supposed to be looked at by customers (to see if they could do a return or exchange, stuff like that). Current sellers and potential recruits were "forbidden" to look at the map. When some of them did, they realized that they were completely surrounded by others in LLR. LLR tried to say that there were still customers for everyone because each fabric was a "limited print" and "all the business owners would have different stock", so over-saturation was "impossible". I can't imagine opening "a business" and not being allowed to know how many other people in the local area had the exact same "business".
-
Real businesses try to avoid over-saturation. They don't flood their local market by recruiting people to do the exact same job they do, selling the exact same stuff they do, in the exact same location they do, for the exact same actual CEO. They (usually) want every business to be able to succeed in every location. They don't build a bunch of the same stores on the same street and spout on about how this one store is succeeding, so yours can too, while ignoring the fact that all the other stores on that street are failing, and giving the succeeding store most of their profits, is the only real reason the star store is doing well.
That's also a key thing to look for in terms of franchise businesses, if you're ever in the market for one as part of a FI strategy. One of the guarantees that a franchise owner gets is that he or she will be the only franchisee within a specific radius. This introduces a "cost to exchange" that deters the customer from deciding to shop at another location instead. The better the franchise, the wider the radius. Subway, for example, is notorious for allowing new franchisees to set up shop close enough to an existing franchise to interfere with the first franchisee's business. Of course even a sizable exclusivity radius in a franchise agreement doesn't mean someone else won't build a nearly-identical business next door. I do see that some retail and commercial landlords try to take it into account... mall food courts come to mind. But the MLM model of sales, with people recruiting their own competition, flies right in the face of the non-compete principle.
Franchises definitely came to mind while writing that post, and some are very much better than others about making sure an area isn't over-saturated.
I remember reading about when Lularoe had a map of distributors. It was only supposed to be looked at by customers (to see if they could do a return or exchange, stuff like that). Current sellers and potential recruits were "forbidden" to look at the map. When some of them did, they realized that they were completely surrounded by others in LLR. LLR tried to say that there were still customers for everyone because each fabric was a "limited print" and "all the business owners would have different stock", so over-saturation was "impossible". I can't imagine opening "a business" and not being allowed to know how many other people in the local area had the exact same "business".
Indeed: that sort of thing makes my bullshit detector go straight to magenta alert. Every competent business plan I've ever seen or helped review or prepare contains some kind of analysis of potential competitors and market saturation. I can't imagine, say, approving a loan for a "business" owner whose business plan didn't include one. I definitely wouldn't buy shares or otherwise go into partnership with someone who wasn't savvy enough to assess the competition. For a company to deliberately recruit vendors and to require them to purchase a fairly expensive starting inventory while concealing the presence and location of internal competitors is pretty dishonest to my way of thinking: it deprives a prospective vendor of information he or she needs to know before committing money and effort. In fact I think that kind of concealment borders on fraud. Internal competitor location disclosure should be expected and even required.
-
Why would you put blood, sweat and tears into training a distributor just to have that distributor now leave your group and go out capture market share from you using what you have given them.
We all need to fight back with all that is in us against government officials that have no idea how to build a viable group of distributors to move product and award the person who built it.
Poor thing, the person you convinced to join your sham by telling them they could be their own boss will now be their own boss.
After reading that quote a couple more times, it seems almost too sociopathic to be real. They're not defending the business, they're defending the actual pyramid scheme aspect openly.
-
Why would you put blood, sweat and tears into training a distributor just to have that distributor now leave your group and go out capture market share from you using what you have given them.
We all need to fight back with all that is in us against government officials that have no idea how to build a viable group of distributors to move product and award the person who built it.
Poor thing, the person you convinced to join your sham by telling them they could be their own boss will now be their own boss.
After reading that quote a couple more times, it seems almost too sociopathic to be real. They're not defending the business, they're defending the actual pyramid scheme aspect openly.
At least in my area and the people I know who do the MLMs, they do it because of that *one* person or family who has done it, got into it a long time ago, and makes a fortune. It is always about "I am going to be like "Bob."
There's a guy who is an AdvoCare king....or at least sounds like he is not anymore because of Gment regulations, who EVERYONE wanted to be. Making money hand over fist.
Or the MK lady who had every pink Caddy (the two door coupe and the little SUV, among others) in her garage.
It's a mirage and people just do not want to work or save so they try these get rich quick things, then annoy everyone they know with it.
Anyone see the toothpaste things now??? Why would I buy toothpaste from some crazy person off FB???
-
Last month my mom surprisingly struck up a conversation about CBD oil with a pothead friend of mine. My mom has always been very straitlaced about drugs so I was surprised to learn that she's interested in trying it to help with her depression and arthritis. My friend apparently has a cousin who sell some sort of MLM CBD oils and convinced my mom to try it.
While I definitely don't believe the medical claims of the CBD community and think the whole thing is a little fishy, I agreed to be the middleman and pass off the order to my mom. I was shocked when I got the tiny bottle and found out the price tag is $100!! For a mere month's supply! My eyes also rolled so far back in my head when I read the boast of "sonicated nanotechnology!!" on the label.
I'm a little disappointed in myself for not talking my mom out of getting it, but hopefully I can discourage her from getting another bottle.
-
Last month my mom surprisingly struck up a conversation about CBD oil with a pothead friend of mine. My mom has always been very straitlaced about drugs so I was surprised to learn that she's interested in trying it to help with her depression and arthritis. My friend apparently has a cousin who sell some sort of MLM CBD oils and convinced my mom to try it.
While I definitely don't believe the medical claims of the CBD community and think the whole thing is a little fishy, I agreed to be the middleman and pass off the order to my mom. I was shocked when I got the tiny bottle and found out the price tag is $100!! For a mere month's supply! My eyes also rolled so far back in my head when I read the boast of "sonicated nanotechnology!!" on the label.
I'm a little disappointed in myself for not talking my mom out of getting it, but hopefully I can discourage her from getting another bottle.
If it's sonicated, you can't go wrong. Now, we just need to know what sonicate means.
-
Remembering a story. At an old job the company VP was a dormant MLM-er. His brother was very successful in it, and he had tried it, but didn't turn it into anything, but was doing well for himself. Anyway, he must see some potential in me, so he starts talking about the opportunity, and I just play dumb, because the only other thing I can think to say is "do you have any sense of right and wrong?"
-
In a research lab, sonicating something means to blast it with high-frequency sound waves to break apart cells and release their contents. I have no idea if that's what is meant here.
If she really likes the oil, you can at least help her find it somewhere cheaper. There are loads of CBD oil companies these days, and surely not all of them are MLMs...
It's what I assumed it meant. Sonication is a pretty blunt tool. I'd be more interested in their purification protocols.
A quick Google search reveals that PureKana sells a 300-mg bottle of CBD oil (40 doses, recommended at 1–2 doses per day) for $54 directly to the consumer.
-
...For a company to deliberately recruit vendors and to require them to purchase a fairly expensive starting inventory while concealing the presence and location of internal competitors is pretty dishonest to my way of thinking: it deprives a prospective vendor of information he or she needs to know before committing money and effort....
I was thinking of buying a bed-and-breakfast in Moab, and asked to see the books. The real estate agent looked nervous, and said, "The, uh, the seller, well, the seller won't show the books until you make an offer."
This would be a better anecdote if I had been quick-witted enough to say, "Senator, my offer is $1. Get out the books." Instead, I wandered around and took a desultory look at the guest register, leafing through. The B&B was in favor with its guests, although Moab was in more favor; many nice things said. But by doing a quick page-count by year of guest commentary, it was clear the business was on a steady, smooth decline. "Both declinin' numbers at an even rate," steady as a moonshot countdown, too. 10, 9, 8 ... 4, 3.... I told the realtor the seller's condition was brainless as well as insulting, and we would move on.
-
For a company to deliberately recruit vendors and to require them to purchase a fairly expensive starting inventory while concealing the presence and location of internal competitors is pretty dishonest to my way of thinking: it deprives a prospective vendor of information he or she needs to know before committing money and effort. In fact I think that kind of concealment borders on fraud. Internal competitor location disclosure should be expected and even required.
It's almost as if once the seller buys the start-up inventory the organization doesn't care if they actually sell anything...
-
...For a company to deliberately recruit vendors and to require them to purchase a fairly expensive starting inventory while concealing the presence and location of internal competitors is pretty dishonest to my way of thinking: it deprives a prospective vendor of information he or she needs to know before committing money and effort....
I was thinking of buying a bed-and-breakfast in Moab, and asked to see the books. The real estate agent looked nervous, and said, "The, uh, the seller, well, the seller won't show the books until you make an offer."
This would be a better anecdote if I had been quick-witted enough to say, "Senator, my offer is $1. Get out the books." Instead, I wandered around and took a desultory look at the guest register, leafing through. The B&B was in favor with its guests, although Moab was in more favor; many nice things said. But by doing a quick page-count by year of guest commentary, it was clear the business was on a steady, smooth decline. "Both declinin' numbers at an even rate," steady as a moonshot countdown, too. 10, 9, 8 ... 4, 3.... I told the realtor the seller's condition was brainless as well as insulting, and we would move on.
Could it have been because the reviews moved to online platforms?
Had a similar encounter with a car salesman a long way back. We could only test-drive the car if we were serious about buying. As if I would want to test-drive a car I wasn't serious about.
No no, he said, I had to sign the purchase form and then could test drive. Had to leave my license behind so that he could get the paperwork in order (as in, put the car in my name). Walked away laughing out loud.
-
In a research lab, sonicating something means to blast it with high-frequency sound waves to break apart cells and release their contents. I have no idea if that's what is meant here.
Yep, sonication is routinely used in processing nanomaterials to disperse them in solution.
It's just a buzz word that I guess sounds cool and science-y to the general public, but makes no sense to include because it doesn't imply much about the efficacy or action of the product.
It reminds me of a natural shampoo label I saw once that boasted that it was gluten-free. Well, of course it's gluten-free, it's a shampoo!
And update on my mom - she's been taking the CBD for 3 days so far and says she thinks she feels better...placebo or a real effect, I don't know, but I'm glad it's helping!
-
In a research lab, sonicating something means to blast it with high-frequency sound waves to break apart cells and release their contents. I have no idea if that's what is meant here.
Yep, sonication is routinely used in processing nanomaterials to disperse them in solution.
It's just a buzz word that I guess sounds cool and science-y to the general public, but makes no sense to include because it doesn't imply much about the efficacy or action of the product.
It reminds me of a natural shampoo label I saw once that boasted that it was gluten-free. Well, of course it's gluten-free, it's a shampoo!
And update on my mom - she's been taking the CBD for 3 days so far and says she thinks she feels better...placebo or a real effect, I don't know, but I'm glad it's helping!
Must be about 20 years ago now that I saw shampoo advertising "Contains DNA!", which might be even more brainless than "Gluten-free!".
-
In a research lab, sonicating something means to blast it with high-frequency sound waves to break apart cells and release their contents. I have no idea if that's what is meant here.
Yep, sonication is routinely used in processing nanomaterials to disperse them in solution.
It's just a buzz word that I guess sounds cool and science-y to the general public, but makes no sense to include because it doesn't imply much about the efficacy or action of the product.
It reminds me of a natural shampoo label I saw once that boasted that it was gluten-free. Well, of course it's gluten-free, it's a shampoo!
And update on my mom - she's been taking the CBD for 3 days so far and says she thinks she feels better...placebo or a real effect, I don't know, but I'm glad it's helping!
Must be about 20 years ago now that I saw shampoo advertising "Contains DNA!", which might be even more brainless than "Gluten-free!".
I have celiac disease. I’ve increasingly seen wheat and barley extracts added to cosmetics and hair care products in the last several years, and some people with celiac disease and wheat allergy have bad skin reactions to gluten. So as ridiculous as it sounds to the non-allergic, there’s a valid reason for the label. (Disclaimer: I have a PhD in immunology and a fairly strong bullshit detector.)
-
Must be about 20 years ago now that I saw shampoo advertising "Contains DNA!", which might be even more brainless than "Gluten-free!".
I have celiac disease. I’ve increasingly seen wheat and barley extracts added to cosmetics and hair care products in the last several years, and some people with celiac disease and wheat allergy have bad skin reactions to gluten. So as ridiculous as it sounds to the non-allergic, there’s a valid reason for the label. (Disclaimer: I have a PhD in immunology and a fairly strong bullshit detector.)
Oh, interesting! I stand corrected. I didn't realize celiac could manifest with contact reactions. But then, my knowledge of it comes from my idiot of a brother with celiac who thinks that he'll be fine with the occasional beer or brownie.
-
Must be about 20 years ago now that I saw shampoo advertising "Contains DNA!", which might be even more brainless than "Gluten-free!".
I have celiac disease. I’ve increasingly seen wheat and barley extracts added to cosmetics and hair care products in the last several years, and some people with celiac disease and wheat allergy have bad skin reactions to gluten. So as ridiculous as it sounds to the non-allergic, there’s a valid reason for the label. (Disclaimer: I have a PhD in immunology and a fairly strong bullshit detector.)
Oh, interesting! I stand corrected. I didn't realize celiac could manifest with contact reactions. But then, my knowledge of it comes from my idiot of a brother with celiac who thinks that he'll be fine with the occasional beer or brownie.
Ugh, those people are the worst. It makes it impossible for the rest of us to be taken seriously. Hopefully he doesn't end up with intestinal lymphoma or something equally awful.
-
In a research lab, sonicating something means to blast it with high-frequency sound waves to break apart cells and release their contents. I have no idea if that's what is meant here.
Yep, sonication is routinely used in processing nanomaterials to disperse them in solution.
It's just a buzz word that I guess sounds cool and science-y to the general public, but makes no sense to include because it doesn't imply much about the efficacy or action of the product.
It reminds me of a natural shampoo label I saw once that boasted that it was gluten-free. Well, of course it's gluten-free, it's a shampoo!
And update on my mom - she's been taking the CBD for 3 days so far and says she thinks she feels better...placebo or a real effect, I don't know, but I'm glad it's helping!
Must be about 20 years ago now that I saw shampoo advertising "Contains DNA!", which might be even more brainless than "Gluten-free!".
I have celiac disease. I’ve increasingly seen wheat and barley extracts added to cosmetics and hair care products in the last several years, and some people with celiac disease and wheat allergy have bad skin reactions to gluten. So as ridiculous as it sounds to the non-allergic, there’s a valid reason for the label. (Disclaimer: I have a PhD in immunology and a fairly strong bullshit detector.)
I've also seen it on vegetables. I'm sorry, but wtf?
-
Must be about 20 years ago now that I saw shampoo advertising "Contains DNA!", which might be even more brainless than "Gluten-free!".
I have celiac disease. I’ve increasingly seen wheat and barley extracts added to cosmetics and hair care products in the last several years, and some people with celiac disease and wheat allergy have bad skin reactions to gluten. So as ridiculous as it sounds to the non-allergic, there’s a valid reason for the label. (Disclaimer: I have a PhD in immunology and a fairly strong bullshit detector.)
I've also seen it on vegetables. I'm sorry, but wtf?
I saw it on flatware in a restaurant. Seemed odd, but whatevs.
-
Must be about 20 years ago now that I saw shampoo advertising "Contains DNA!", which might be even more brainless than "Gluten-free!".
I have celiac disease. I’ve increasingly seen wheat and barley extracts added to cosmetics and hair care products in the last several years, and some people with celiac disease and wheat allergy have bad skin reactions to gluten. So as ridiculous as it sounds to the non-allergic, there’s a valid reason for the label. (Disclaimer: I have a PhD in immunology and a fairly strong bullshit detector.)
Oh, interesting! I stand corrected. I didn't realize celiac could manifest with contact reactions. But then, my knowledge of it comes from my idiot of a brother with celiac who thinks that he'll be fine with the occasional beer or brownie.
Ugh, those people are the worst. It makes it impossible for the rest of us to be taken seriously. Hopefully he doesn't end up with intestinal lymphoma or something equally awful.
I don't have celiac, but have friends who do and I have a gluten intolerance. (I'm always careful to answer "preference not allergy" at restaurants so to not confuse people.) A friend of mine has a mom who is celiac and she keeps eating pasta at parties! She's in her 70s, and it's like she doesn't realize that just because SHE buys gluten free pasta and her daughter always makes it for her, it's NOT SAFE everywhere else.
-
In a research lab, sonicating something means to blast it with high-frequency sound waves to break apart cells and release their contents. I have no idea if that's what is meant here.
Yep, sonication is routinely used in processing nanomaterials to disperse them in solution.
It's just a buzz word that I guess sounds cool and science-y to the general public, but makes no sense to include because it doesn't imply much about the efficacy or action of the product.
It reminds me of a natural shampoo label I saw once that boasted that it was gluten-free. Well, of course it's gluten-free, it's a shampoo!
And update on my mom - she's been taking the CBD for 3 days so far and says she thinks she feels better...placebo or a real effect, I don't know, but I'm glad it's helping!
Must be about 20 years ago now that I saw shampoo advertising "Contains DNA!", which might be even more brainless than "Gluten-free!".
I have celiac disease. I’ve increasingly seen wheat and barley extracts added to cosmetics and hair care products in the last several years, and some people with celiac disease and wheat allergy have bad skin reactions to gluten. So as ridiculous as it sounds to the non-allergic, there’s a valid reason for the label. (Disclaimer: I have a PhD in immunology and a fairly strong bullshit detector.)
I've also seen it on vegetables. I'm sorry, but wtf?
Like canned tomatoes? I have to check any label on seasoned/stewed tomatoes (or any other kind of vegetable). Barley malt is a cheap seasoning agent that doesn’t have to be identified beyond “natural flavor” because it isn’t a major allergen. Ditto for frozen veg: I have to make sure there’s no seasoning added.
It’s ridiculous on plain raw, frozen, or canned veg, though.
-
Must be about 20 years ago now that I saw shampoo advertising "Contains DNA!", which might be even more brainless than "Gluten-free!".
I have celiac disease. I’ve increasingly seen wheat and barley extracts added to cosmetics and hair care products in the last several years, and some people with celiac disease and wheat allergy have bad skin reactions to gluten. So as ridiculous as it sounds to the non-allergic, there’s a valid reason for the label. (Disclaimer: I have a PhD in immunology and a fairly strong bullshit detector.)
Oh, interesting! I stand corrected. I didn't realize celiac could manifest with contact reactions. But then, my knowledge of it comes from my idiot of a brother with celiac who thinks that he'll be fine with the occasional beer or brownie.
Ugh, those people are the worst. It makes it impossible for the rest of us to be taken seriously. Hopefully he doesn't end up with intestinal lymphoma or something equally awful.
I don't have celiac, but have friends who do and I have a gluten intolerance. (I'm always careful to answer "preference not allergy" at restaurants so to not confuse people.) A friend of mine has a mom who is celiac and she keeps eating pasta at parties! She's in her 70s, and it's like she doesn't realize that just because SHE buys gluten free pasta and her daughter always makes it for her, it's NOT SAFE everywhere else.
Oh, good lord. Does she ever wonder why she feels awful much of the time?
-
In a research lab, sonicating something means to blast it with high-frequency sound waves to break apart cells and release their contents. I have no idea if that's what is meant here.
Yep, sonication is routinely used in processing nanomaterials to disperse them in solution.
It's just a buzz word that I guess sounds cool and science-y to the general public, but makes no sense to include because it doesn't imply much about the efficacy or action of the product.
It reminds me of a natural shampoo label I saw once that boasted that it was gluten-free. Well, of course it's gluten-free, it's a shampoo!
And update on my mom - she's been taking the CBD for 3 days so far and says she thinks she feels better...placebo or a real effect, I don't know, but I'm glad it's helping!
Must be about 20 years ago now that I saw shampoo advertising "Contains DNA!", which might be even more brainless than "Gluten-free!".
I have celiac disease. I’ve increasingly seen wheat and barley extracts added to cosmetics and hair care products in the last several years, and some people with celiac disease and wheat allergy have bad skin reactions to gluten. So as ridiculous as it sounds to the non-allergic, there’s a valid reason for the label. (Disclaimer: I have a PhD in immunology and a fairly strong bullshit detector.)
I've also seen it on vegetables. I'm sorry, but wtf?
Like canned tomatoes? I have to check any label on seasoned/stewed tomatoes (or any other kind of vegetable). Barley malt is a cheap seasoning agent that doesn’t have to be identified beyond “natural flavor” because it isn’t a major allergen. Ditto for frozen veg: I have to make sure there’s no seasoning added.
It’s ridiculous on plain raw, frozen, or canned veg, though.
No! I mean on a sign in the produce section! Silly.
-
In a research lab, sonicating something means to blast it with high-frequency sound waves to break apart cells and release their contents. I have no idea if that's what is meant here.
Yep, sonication is routinely used in processing nanomaterials to disperse them in solution.
It's just a buzz word that I guess sounds cool and science-y to the general public, but makes no sense to include because it doesn't imply much about the efficacy or action of the product.
It reminds me of a natural shampoo label I saw once that boasted that it was gluten-free. Well, of course it's gluten-free, it's a shampoo!
And update on my mom - she's been taking the CBD for 3 days so far and says she thinks she feels better...placebo or a real effect, I don't know, but I'm glad it's helping!
Must be about 20 years ago now that I saw shampoo advertising "Contains DNA!", which might be even more brainless than "Gluten-free!".
I have celiac disease. I’ve increasingly seen wheat and barley extracts added to cosmetics and hair care products in the last several years, and some people with celiac disease and wheat allergy have bad skin reactions to gluten. So as ridiculous as it sounds to the non-allergic, there’s a valid reason for the label. (Disclaimer: I have a PhD in immunology and a fairly strong bullshit detector.)
I've also seen it on vegetables. I'm sorry, but wtf?
Like canned tomatoes? I have to check any label on seasoned/stewed tomatoes (or any other kind of vegetable). Barley malt is a cheap seasoning agent that doesn’t have to be identified beyond “natural flavor” because it isn’t a major allergen. Ditto for frozen veg: I have to make sure there’s no seasoning added.
It’s ridiculous on plain raw, frozen, or canned veg, though.
No! I mean on a sign in the produce section! Silly.
Yeah, that is insanely dumb. And pointless.
-
Must be about 20 years ago now that I saw shampoo advertising "Contains DNA!", which might be even more brainless than "Gluten-free!".
I have celiac disease. I’ve increasingly seen wheat and barley extracts added to cosmetics and hair care products in the last several years, and some people with celiac disease and wheat allergy have bad skin reactions to gluten. So as ridiculous as it sounds to the non-allergic, there’s a valid reason for the label. (Disclaimer: I have a PhD in immunology and a fairly strong bullshit detector.)
Oh, interesting! I stand corrected. I didn't realize celiac could manifest with contact reactions. But then, my knowledge of it comes from my idiot of a brother with celiac who thinks that he'll be fine with the occasional beer or brownie.
Ugh, those people are the worst. It makes it impossible for the rest of us to be taken seriously. Hopefully he doesn't end up with intestinal lymphoma or something equally awful.
I don't have celiac, but have friends who do and I have a gluten intolerance. (I'm always careful to answer "preference not allergy" at restaurants so to not confuse people.) A friend of mine has a mom who is celiac and she keeps eating pasta at parties! She's in her 70s, and it's like she doesn't realize that just because SHE buys gluten free pasta and her daughter always makes it for her, it's NOT SAFE everywhere else.
Oh, good lord. Does she ever wonder why she feels awful much of the time?
Her daughter does try to remind her.
On the frozen veg, husband bought some frozen veg while we were on vacation. When we got back to the flat, I painstakingly looked through the ingredients to try and translate from Danish...yep, regular soy sauce.
-
MLM story: buddy of mine got into something with auto parts. When showing me the fuel additive, I looked it up online and he began to panic, telling me you couldn't trust the internet. When I found a site it said positive things, and there were comments of people saying, "hey, where can I get this stuff?".
I see now that it was probably MLM people commenting on it, but it was so funny to see my friend have a fit about "the internet" and how you couldn't trust it.
-
MLM story: buddy of mine got into something with auto parts. When showing me the fuel additive, I looked it up online and he began to panic, telling me you couldn't trust the internet. When I found a site it said positive things, and there were comments of people saying, "hey, where can I get this stuff?".
I see now that it was probably MLM people commenting on it, but it was so funny to see my friend have a fit about "the internet" and how you couldn't trust it.
This is actually quite funny. My wife has a thing where she points me to internet sources to prove her point but when I point her to another source that disproves it the result is "I shouldn't believe everything I read".
The points are mainly modern western medicine versus traditional chinese medicine (as in herbs). Yes honey, lets agree to disagree, my hayfever is under control with western medicine but every herb she points me to had 0 effect on it.
-
MLM story: buddy of mine got into something with auto parts. When showing me the fuel additive, I looked it up online and he began to panic, telling me you couldn't trust the internet. When I found a site it said positive things, and there were comments of people saying, "hey, where can I get this stuff?".
I see now that it was probably MLM people commenting on it, but it was so funny to see my friend have a fit about "the internet" and how you couldn't trust it.
This is actually quite funny. My wife has a thing where she points me to internet sources to prove her point but when I point her to another source that disproves it the result is "I shouldn't believe everything I read".
The points are mainly modern western medicine versus traditional chinese medicine (as in herbs). Yes honey, lets agree to disagree, my hayfever is under control with western medicine but every herb she points me to had 0 effect on it.
The thing with herbal options is that it's sometimes very difficult to manage the dosage because the active ingredient concentration will vary depending on when and how the plant was grown and the conditions under which it has been prepared or stored. There are plenty of herbal options that are indeed reliable and effective enough to be good medicine. Examples I can think of off the top of my head include digitalis (foxglove), aspirin (willow bark), and eugenol (essential oil of cloves). But to get shelf stability and standard concentration, some form of processing is generally required. This is why herbal products that really are effective enough to pass rigorous clinical testing usually go mainstream, at which point they lose their appeal to folks who like non-mainstream remedies.
-
In a research lab, sonicating something means to blast it with high-frequency sound waves to break apart cells and release their contents. I have no idea if that's what is meant here.
Yep, sonication is routinely used in processing nanomaterials to disperse them in solution.
It's just a buzz word that I guess sounds cool and science-y to the general public, but makes no sense to include because it doesn't imply much about the efficacy or action of the product.
It reminds me of a natural shampoo label I saw once that boasted that it was gluten-free. Well, of course it's gluten-free, it's a shampoo!
And update on my mom - she's been taking the CBD for 3 days so far and says she thinks she feels better...placebo or a real effect, I don't know, but I'm glad it's helping!
Must be about 20 years ago now that I saw shampoo advertising "Contains DNA!", which might be even more brainless than "Gluten-free!".
I have celiac disease. I’ve increasingly seen wheat and barley extracts added to cosmetics and hair care products in the last several years, and some people with celiac disease and wheat allergy have bad skin reactions to gluten. So as ridiculous as it sounds to the non-allergic, there’s a valid reason for the label. (Disclaimer: I have a PhD in immunology and a fairly strong bullshit detector.)
I've also seen it on vegetables. I'm sorry, but wtf?
Like canned tomatoes? I have to check any label on seasoned/stewed tomatoes (or any other kind of vegetable). Barley malt is a cheap seasoning agent that doesn’t have to be identified beyond “natural flavor” because it isn’t a major allergen. Ditto for frozen veg: I have to make sure there’s no seasoning added.
It’s ridiculous on plain raw, frozen, or canned veg, though.
I had no idea that was a possibility for seasoned/stewed tomatoes. I've been eating gluten free for a few years now due to an intolerance, and I just learned this summer about the possibility of wheat starch in the adhesive on envelopes. Now I need to be careful of canned tomatoes too...
-
In a research lab, sonicating something means to blast it with high-frequency sound waves to break apart cells and release their contents. I have no idea if that's what is meant here.
Yep, sonication is routinely used in processing nanomaterials to disperse them in solution.
It's just a buzz word that I guess sounds cool and science-y to the general public, but makes no sense to include because it doesn't imply much about the efficacy or action of the product.
It reminds me of a natural shampoo label I saw once that boasted that it was gluten-free. Well, of course it's gluten-free, it's a shampoo!
And update on my mom - she's been taking the CBD for 3 days so far and says she thinks she feels better...placebo or a real effect, I don't know, but I'm glad it's helping!
Must be about 20 years ago now that I saw shampoo advertising "Contains DNA!", which might be even more brainless than "Gluten-free!".
I have celiac disease. I’ve increasingly seen wheat and barley extracts added to cosmetics and hair care products in the last several years, and some people with celiac disease and wheat allergy have bad skin reactions to gluten. So as ridiculous as it sounds to the non-allergic, there’s a valid reason for the label. (Disclaimer: I have a PhD in immunology and a fairly strong bullshit detector.)
I've also seen it on vegetables. I'm sorry, but wtf?
Like canned tomatoes? I have to check any label on seasoned/stewed tomatoes (or any other kind of vegetable). Barley malt is a cheap seasoning agent that doesn’t have to be identified beyond “natural flavor” because it isn’t a major allergen. Ditto for frozen veg: I have to make sure there’s no seasoning added.
It’s ridiculous on plain raw, frozen, or canned veg, though.
I had no idea that was a possibility for seasoned/stewed tomatoes. I've been eating gluten free for a few years now due to an intolerance, and I just learned this summer about the possibility of wheat starch in the adhesive on envelopes. Now I need to be careful of canned tomatoes too...
I don’t know how common it is in stewed/seasoned tomatoes. For safety’s sake, I tend to avoid things containing “natural flavors” unless I can confirm that the product is gluten-free.
-
MLM story: buddy of mine got into something with auto parts. When showing me the fuel additive, I looked it up online and he began to panic, telling me you couldn't trust the internet. When I found a site it said positive things, and there were comments of people saying, "hey, where can I get this stuff?".
I see now that it was probably MLM people commenting on it, but it was so funny to see my friend have a fit about "the internet" and how you couldn't trust it.
There are some huge forum threads about engine oils and additives. Sort of like discussing paying off the mortgage early here.
-
Ugh, I just want to vent about someone I know who is purposely misleading people.
This woman is the wife of my hubby's former co-worker, so we have a pretty good idea of what he makes. The wife has worked at a very large, well established company for north of 20 years, and is in a mgmt role, so she likely makes close to what her husband makes. Between the two, well into 6 figure territory, and we live in a low-medium COL area. One adult child who hasn't lived in the home in years.
Earlier this year, she joins Paparazzi. This is the MLM that sells cheap jewelry for $5/piece. I suspect the wife is bored b/c hubby travels a lot, and is looking for something to fill her time. She's clearly reading the books and following the script - always posting fun questions as she goes about her day that have nothing to do w/the MLM, so she should be improving her chance of getting seen on feeds as a result. I know what she's doing, so I just watch and never post. She also goes live at least 2X/wk to sell her wares, and when I have scrolled past, she never has more that 10 people watching.
A few weeks ago, there was a post showing how their home had recently gotten an exterior paint job - not sure if there was a storm that caused damage, but the tone of it seemed to indicate that this was an unexpected expense, followed by the boasting that this paint job was expensive and completely paid for by the MLM income, tons of hashtags about it wasn't fake news, blah blah blah.
Yesterday, she shared a post from her upline, announcing to the team that she had been "promoted" to director level, and how amazing it was and how proud she was to work someplace where they value her efforts, etc. I'd say her real job values her, as she's moved several times so her husband could pursue better paying work, and they allow her to work remote, no problem. Plus, she actively manages a team of people in her real job, so this was all just so painfully fake. Along with every single comment coming from someone on the team, of course.
So, it piqued my interest enough to do a quick search. Director is the 3 lowest rank in the company; the first rank is placing one order, one time. Achieving director level means that she has suckered 3 others to join her team, and all four of them have sold 25 pieces in the past month. She now gets a 10% cut of what they sell, plus they all make $2.25 on each $5 sale. So, assuming that she sells 25 pieces, she makes $56.25. If each of her downline sells 25 pieces, she makes $12.50 on each of them, for a whopping $37.50. So not even $94/month in income makes you a Director. And of course, this isn't counting her time, all the boards she had to buy to display her wares, inventory carrying costs, number tags to identify which lot people are buying on her lives, etc. And it took her at least 6 months to get to this level! I'm sure that Paparazzi didn't even cover a quart of paint for that house paint job, much less all the materials and the labor to do the work.
I think the reason it annoys me so much is that she knows better. She's willfully lying to people to get them to join her team, knowing that they won't make crap doing this, but she's OK with stealing a little money from each of them, and I have no doubt that none of her recruits can afford to waste money on this scheme. We often talk about how much it sucks to have your friendship monetized, but to monetize and ruin people for a few dollars a month? Get a part time job in fast food, you'd make actual income and find people willing to socialize with you!
-
So if my kid cuts four yards a month - they can assume the title of director? So how about our other kid who works while going to school and clears $15K+ a year?
What title can that kid print under his name? Surpreme Overlord of the Universe?
The amount of work the MLM folks do for $100 is astounding to me. Multiple hours of BS to sell baubles and shiny things?
-
MLMs... where title inflation is rampant and jingoistic without correlation to reality. You are not what your title says if your first sale promotes you to Director status. You're just a trinket peddler.
The only other industry where I see title inflation is banking & finance. Recently saw a bank cashier/teller's badge was "Associate VP of Client Services".
-
MLMs... where title inflation is rampant and jingoistic without correlation to reality. You are not what your title says if your first sale promotes you to Director status. You're just a trinket peddler.
The only other industry where I see title inflation is banking & finance. Recently saw a bank cashier/teller's badge was "Associate VP of Client Services".
The guys from Personal Capital who call me twice a year to pitch their company call themselves Vice Presidents.
-
MLMs... where title inflation is rampant and jingoistic without correlation to reality. You are not what your title says if your first sale promotes you to Director status. You're just a trinket peddler.
The only other industry where I see title inflation is banking & finance. Recently saw a bank cashier/teller's badge was "Associate VP of Client Services".
The guys from Personal Capital who call me twice a year to pitch their company call themselves Vice Presidents.
Yep, this is HUGE in client-facing parts of financial services. The issue is that, if you're providing financial services to midsize or larger clients, you're probably dealing with a C-level or VP title at the client, so it's a way to appear to be at their level to give them some confidence in your abilities. I don't know if it actually works like that (surely the clients are smart enough to see that the 22 y/o Associate Vice President is an inflated title?), but it's become a massive joke in insurance. People at insurance carriers have relatively normal titles (entry level might be "Account Executive" or something), but people at insurance brokerages (Marsh, Willis, Aon) will have Vice President or Executive Vice President at the same level.
The really funny thing is, the people who are ACTUALLY very high level have titles like "Head of XXX" or "Lead XXX".
-
The only other industry where I see title inflation is banking & finance. Recently saw a bank cashier/teller's badge was "Associate VP of Client Services".
Totally agree on the banking. I've been fascinated with this for years. But lets not throw "finance" in there. I'm a Director of Finance at a hospital system and I work damn hard for that title. The amount of work I'd have to do to have a VP title is no joke.
-
Morgan Stanley was notorious for this, and probably still is. I interviewed there once, and the title was Associate VP of Trading Floor Operations. In layman terms, Office Manager.
-
Morgan Stanley was notorious for this, and probably still is. I interviewed there once, and the title was Associate VP of Trading Floor Operations. In layman terms, Office Manager.
Does that also mean that the Associate VP needs an Associate degree?
My school tried to sucker me into one of those, which was a 2 years course vs the full degree being a 4 year course. They say it's accepted as equivalent to a full degree but I asked around and the managers I spoke related it in qualifications to the same degree I already had. So thanks but no thanks.
-
Morgan Stanley was notorious for this, and probably still is. I interviewed there once, and the title was Associate VP of Trading Floor Operations. In layman terms, Office Manager.
Does that also mean that the Associate VP needs an Associate degree?
My school tried to sucker me into one of those, which was a 2 years course vs the full degree being a 4 year course. They say it's accepted as equivalent to a full degree but I asked around and the managers I spoke related it in qualifications to the same degree I already had. So thanks but no thanks.
Nope, I have a Bachelor's degree. I surmised that based on pretty much everyone having a VP title there, they used terms like "associate" to mean it was a more Jr role. At the time, I remember hubby getting a little upset b/c he had recently joined LinkedIn, and pretty much everyone he connected with from our college days, had these amazing titles. Meanwhile we were basically an Office Manager and a Sales Manager. Then the economy imploded, and the finance sector did as well, so those lofty titles disappeared. We had some bumps along the way too, but our modest jobs made it through the hard times, and we'll be retired soon. All that glitters is not gold.
-
If you have Showtime: there is a new TV Series starring Kirsten Dunst about a MLM/Pyramid scheme (Likely based on Amway). Two episodes out, and I'm hooked.
"On becoming a god in central Florida"
-
I was just invited, in Brazil, to a MLM thing based on consuption and selling of RICE AND BEANS (???)
Thay say basically to stop buying what you would usually buy in a supermarket, and instead buying in their market, and invite friends to do the same and collect profits on their purchases.
I'm still confused, never heard of it before.
Are you sure it's not a co-op? A co-op is where you buy something cheaper in bulk, and you divide the cost with multiple people. I used to do it way back when in college (think 10 pound blocks of cheese, beans, grains, etc, organic stuff etc).
-
has any here heard of True North Beauty? Is this a MLM? the vibe was inconclusive when I went to the website. a candidate for the upcoming local election claims to be a development consultant for them and that phrase triggers something not quite right.
-
has any here heard of True North Beauty? Is this a MLM? the vibe was inconclusive when I went to the website. a candidate for the upcoming local election claims to be a development consultant for them and that phrase triggers something not quite right.
Doesn't look like it to me. They're not on the Reddit (https://www.reddit.com/r/antiMLM/comments/9aolhe/is_an_mlm_check_here_mega_thread_list/) list, you have to order from their site, and I see no mention of "consultants".
-
If you have Showtime: there is a new TV Series starring Kirsten Dunst about a MLM/Pyramid scheme (Likely based on Amway). Two episodes out, and I'm hooked.
"On becoming a god in central Florida"
We already have that here, he has big black round ears
-
If you have Showtime: there is a new TV Series starring Kirsten Dunst about a MLM/Pyramid scheme (Likely based on Amway). Two episodes out, and I'm hooked.
"On becoming a god in central Florida"
We already have that here, he has big black round ears
Uh...wut??
-
If you have Showtime: there is a new TV Series starring Kirsten Dunst about a MLM/Pyramid scheme (Likely based on Amway). Two episodes out, and I'm hooked.
"On becoming a god in central Florida"
We already have that here, he has big black round ears
Uh...wut??
Disney/Mickey Mouse
-
If you have Showtime: there is a new TV Series starring Kirsten Dunst about a MLM/Pyramid scheme (Likely based on Amway). Two episodes out, and I'm hooked.
"On becoming a god in central Florida"
We already have that here, he has big black round ears
Uh...wut??
Disney/Mickey Mouse
Aka The Swamp Rat. He has his own cops. Rat's got power. Always Be Collecting, which is why he bought ABC.
-
If you have Showtime: there is a new TV Series starring Kirsten Dunst about a MLM/Pyramid scheme (Likely based on Amway). Two episodes out, and I'm hooked.
"On becoming a god in central Florida"
We already have that here, he has big black round ears
Uh...wut??
Disney/Mickey Mouse
Aka The Swamp Rat. He has his own cops. Rat's got power. Always Be Collecting, which is why he bought ABC.
Mice and rats are very different animals.
-
If you have Showtime: there is a new TV Series starring Kirsten Dunst about a MLM/Pyramid scheme (Likely based on Amway). Two episodes out, and I'm hooked.
"On becoming a god in central Florida"
We already have that here, he has big black round ears
Uh...wut??
Disney/Mickey Mouse
Aka The Swamp Rat. He has his own cops. Rat's got power. Always Be Collecting, which is why he bought ABC.
Mice and rats are very different animals.
Fine. Be all logical and rational and factual. Spoil everyone's fun. ;-)
-
If you have Showtime: there is a new TV Series starring Kirsten Dunst about a MLM/Pyramid scheme (Likely based on Amway). Two episodes out, and I'm hooked.
"On becoming a god in central Florida"
We already have that here, he has big black round ears
Uh...wut??
Disney/Mickey Mouse
Aka The Swamp Rat. He has his own cops. Rat's got power. Always Be Collecting, which is why he bought ABC.
Mice and rats are very different animals.
Fine. Be all logical and rational and factual. Spoil everyone's fun. ;-)
I'm actually being extremely silly.
I worked with rats and mice for years. I really like rats, and REALLY dislike mice, so I jokingly get offended every time someone equates them, as if it's some kind of insult to the rats.
-
If you have Showtime: there is a new TV Series starring Kirsten Dunst about a MLM/Pyramid scheme (Likely based on Amway). Two episodes out, and I'm hooked.
"On becoming a god in central Florida"
We already have that here, he has big black round ears
Uh...wut??
Disney/Mickey Mouse
Aka The Swamp Rat. He has his own cops. Rat's got power. Always Be Collecting, which is why he bought ABC.
Mice and rats are very different animals.
Fine. Be all logical and rational and factual. Spoil everyone's fun. ;-)
I'm actually being extremely silly.
I worked with rats and mice for years. I really like rats, and REALLY dislike mice, so I jokingly get offended every time someone equates them, as if it's some kind of insult to the rats.
Can you explain to me the difference that led to the liking of one and the disliking of the other? Just curious; I don't have a rodent in this fight.
-
I'm actually being extremely silly.
I worked with rats and mice for years. I really like rats, and REALLY dislike mice, so I jokingly get offended every time someone equates them, as if it's some kind of insult to the rats.
Can you explain to me the difference that led to the liking of one and the disliking of the other? Just curious; I don't have a rodent in this fight.
[/quote]
Rats are clean, very friendly, easily trained to do complex tasks, and like to hang out together on hammocks. Mice smell bad and occasionally bite each other's testicles off.
-
I'm actually being extremely silly.
I worked with rats and mice for years. I really like rats, and REALLY dislike mice, so I jokingly get offended every time someone equates them, as if it's some kind of insult to the rats.
Can you explain to me the difference that led to the liking of one and the disliking of the other? Just curious; I don't have a rodent in this fight.
Rats are clean, very friendly, easily trained to do complex tasks, and like to hang out together on hammocks. Mice smell bad and occasionally bite each other's testicles off.
[/quote]
Having worked with both, I second this assessment. Unfortunately, I'm now allergic to rats and can't have them as pets. Hopefully I am also allergic to mice and won't ever have to work with them again.
-
I'm actually being extremely silly.
I worked with rats and mice for years. I really like rats, and REALLY dislike mice, so I jokingly get offended every time someone equates them, as if it's some kind of insult to the rats.
Can you explain to me the difference that led to the liking of one and the disliking of the other? Just curious; I don't have a rodent in this fight.
Rats are clean, very friendly, easily trained to do complex tasks, and like to hang out together on hammocks. Mice smell bad and occasionally bite each other's testicles off.
They're bigger so they handle easier, have more developed personalities, and are very smart. When they're your pet, they're cute. When they're feral and on the loose, it's like dealing with a supervillain.
-
My friend just told me that she signed up to be a beachbody coach..
I care about her very much and don't want her to get ripped off, and I also don't want to buy those products or do a fitness challenge or whatever else is involved with this. I'm happy that she's taking fitness seriously again, that part of it is good, but this company is garbage and I know she already isn't in the best financial shape (which is probably why she wants to start doing this on the side).
Help! Can I/Should I tell her this is a scam? Should I just politely decline to participate and let this run its course?
-
My friend just told me that she signed up to be a beachbody coach..
I care about her very much and don't want her to get ripped off, and I also don't want to buy those products or do a fitness challenge or whatever else is involved with this. I'm happy that she's taking fitness seriously again, that part of it is good, but this company is garbage and I know she already isn't in the best financial shape (which is probably why she wants to start doing this on the side).
Help! Can I/Should I tell her this is a scam? Should I just politely decline to participate and let this run its course?
I don't think telling her it's a scam would help, she won't be able to hear you. I think all you can do is decline to participate.
-
I had a friend do BeachBody for a while. Her FB feed was all workouts all the time, plus that ridiculously overpriced protein powder. She sent me one of those terrible marketing IMs. My response was basically, "Wow! Nice work on your fitness. I'm not interested in participating but I wish you the best." That seemed to work and eventually she stopped hawking for that awful company. I hope your friend gets through relatively unscathed.
-
I had a friend do BeachBody for a while. Her FB feed was all workouts all the time, plus that ridiculously overpriced protein powder. She sent me one of those terrible marketing IMs. My response was basically, "Wow! Nice work on your fitness. I'm not interested in participating but I wish you the best." That seemed to work and eventually she stopped hawking for that awful company. I hope your friend gets through relatively unscathed.
Seriously, do they send a copy paste message from a guide book? Just reading it, I could tell it wasn't her writing voice. I already said I'm not interested, hopefully she doesn't ask again.
I just looked up the coaching program though.. anything that makes you pay to join, pay to get the materials, and pay a monthly fee to keep doing it is such a transparent scam.. how does anyone fall for this shit?
-
Seriously, do they send a copy paste message from a guide book?
Actually, they do. Their "coach" gives them all kinds of scripting and responses to objections. That's why 99% of MLM members end up sounding exactly the same.
-
I started telling folks a few years ago when every MLM was running through the neighborhood moms like the plague, that I had decided to not participate in ANY company that does direct marketing. I explained it wasn't personal, I just have a rule that I don't go to parties to support direct selling, and I don't buy projects from direct marketing (or anything else that's sold via Facebook). There is just too many of them and so I decided to say no to all of them. But "I truly wish you the best of luck with your new venture".
So far it's worked pretty well. It's not worth getting into why you think it's a scam, why this company is different than that company etc, etc.
-
My friend just told me that she signed up to be a beachbody coach..
I care about her very much and don't want her to get ripped off, and I also don't want to buy those products or do a fitness challenge or whatever else is involved with this. I'm happy that she's taking fitness seriously again, that part of it is good, but this company is garbage and I know she already isn't in the best financial shape (which is probably why she wants to start doing this on the side).
Help! Can I/Should I tell her this is a scam? Should I just politely decline to participate and let this run its course?
Probably politely decline.
Full disclosure: I was a (discount only) BB coach for about 4 years. I signed up to buy a program (it came with Shakeology). I actually loved the program (helped me lose all the baby weight), Shakeo was delicious, but I had no desire to turn it into a business, so I didn't. I think that is true for many BB coaches.
I also fortunately (or not) knew a lot of other BB coaches. My immediate "upline" (a coworker) in my same boat. Like the products, but that's about it. Well then, a couple of years ago, I started having digestive issues and could no longer drink the Shakeo. So, I started canceling my deliveries. Then BB came out with Beachbody On Demand, which is essentially access to ALL their videos (and food programs) for $99 / year. I thought, at the time "this has GOT to be the end of BB as a side hustle".)
At that point, I already knew a couple of coaches who were making good money at some point had quit because the market was saturated. A very good friend of mine had signed up to be a coach. HER coach quit, so she eventually quit. What surprised me is that her coach signed up again later, and so did she. This second time she signed up, she kept asking me to sign up under her. At this point, what do you do? I told her that I was *already* a coach (but had been too lazy to cancel). I finally decided to cancel (then realized at that point that my upline and hers had both canceled already, so they weren't making any money off me anyway). There's a 6 month wait if you cancel being a coach before you are allowed to sign up again as a coach. That got me off the hook. I agreed to sign up to be a customer for her (without buying anything).
I really really wanted to tell her that this just isn't a good business model. From what I'd seen just watching others over the 4 years...I love the videos, I like having BB on demand at my fingertips for when I don't feel like leaving the house and want to do yoga in my PJs. It's a good value. But the rest of it? Nope. You aren't going to make real money. I get the desire to be healthy and to "help people" but this isn't the way to do it.
Even though she is a good friend of mine, I just let it go. You know "don't get in the way of people doing things" and all that. She just quit last week.
I don't have proof, but I think the vast majority of BB money comes from "coaches". It's not customers. If there's a new program out, and you want to get a group together to do it, and get them to buy the program and the shakeology - the COACH has to buy it first. Then you have all these "coaches" buying early access to the programs.
Streaming service is awesome, the blog has great recipes, there's a lot of useful information in there. But it's really no way to make money, that's a total scam.
-
My friend just told me that she signed up to be a beachbody coach..
I care about her very much and don't want her to get ripped off, and I also don't want to buy those products or do a fitness challenge or whatever else is involved with this. I'm happy that she's taking fitness seriously again, that part of it is good, but this company is garbage and I know she already isn't in the best financial shape (which is probably why she wants to start doing this on the side).
Help! Can I/Should I tell her this is a scam? Should I just politely decline to participate and let this run its course?
Then BB came out with Beachbody On Demand, which is essentially access to ALL their videos (and food programs) for $99 / year. I thought, at the time "this has GOT to be the end of BB as a side hustle".)
...
I don't have proof, but I think the vast majority of BB money comes from "coaches". It's not customers. If there's a new program out, and you want to get a group together to do it, and get them to buy the program and the shakeology - the COACH has to buy it first. Then you have all these "coaches" buying early access to the programs.
Streaming service is awesome, the blog has great recipes, there's a lot of useful information in there. But it's really no way to make money, that's a total scam.
If $99/year gets you a menu of training videos and recipes that's a steal as far as online subscriptions go. My video game service costs that much and is far worse for my health than a diet program.
Regarding the coaches being the primary source of income for BB corporate, that's normal for MLMs. Whoever is pitching the product usually has to buy it first which is when corporate makes their money. Whether that person can sell it themselves is irrelevant to the corporate business model.
-
Here's a different take on the MLM/pyramid scheme: the vanishing crypto-queen.
https://www.bbc.com/news/stories-50435014
-
Here's a different take on the MLM/pyramid scheme: the vanishing crypto-queen.
https://www.bbc.com/news/stories-50435014
That was great. I think my favorite part was this:
"I did the calculation how many coins we needed to become the richest person on the planet," Igor says. "I said to Andreea, 'We need to build it up to 100 million coins, because when this coin goes to €100 and we have 100 million, we are richer than Bill Gates.' It's mathematic. It's easy as that."
From the dates, this appears to have been written in 2016, at which point Bill Gates' net worth was ~$85 billion, or ~€77 billion (estimating an exchange rate around USD 1.00 = EUR 0.90 for that time).
€100 times 100 million is €10 billion.
Their "It's mathematic. It's easy as that." is off by a factor of 10, or, you know, €67 billion.
-
Ok, yikes, I wasn’t sure about posting this, but I think some input from you all might be useful. Earlier this year, a work colleague sent me an email about something crypto currency related, it looked like an email that was sent out to a large list of contacts and I thought his email had probably just been hacked and had sent out some spam without his knowledge, so I didn’t even click on it. Well, a few months later he mentioned he wanted to get together and talk about investing in a “gold-backed crypto currency”. I have no interest in buying into anything like that. Was with our boss at the time and we both listened a bit, but shrugged it off. Well, recently he mentioned it again and wants to get together to talk more about it, so out of morbid curiosity I went back to the original email to see what I could learn about it. Oh man, it’s so much worse than just another pointless coin, it’s basically from a company that runs a terrible MLM scheme selling tiny gold bars to people at an absurd markup and there’s a huge pyramid based referral program to sign up other distributors at huge upfront cost. I know the rational move is to politely decline a meeting because I’m not interested, but I can’t help but wonder if I can meet with him and ask questions in a way that helps him re-evaluate his investment. (btw, he has 5 figures in these coins atm, so the stakes for him are pretty high).
-
@JAYSLOL , it's a very tough spot to be in, knowing someone, wanting to help, but not knowing if the message will be received. I've got a family member knee deep in Revolution Financial, an offshoot of World Financial Group, and after 10 months of work, they managed to get to the lowest rung, "Associate". The social media posts over the plaque they were presented rivaled an Oscar acceptance speech, and also called out all the haters telling them it's an MLM, scam, or pyramid scheme. It's truly amazing how these companies mimic cults! Best I can do right now is warn family members to NOT buy into the Indexed Universal Life policies they are shilling.
I did find this article helpful; maybe you will too. https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/43e573/how-to-get-a-friend-out-of-an-mlm-herbalife-amway-younique-
And if you really do want to do a deep dive, Elle's Poonique Blog and the Sounds Like MLM Podcast are worth the time.
-
@JAYSLOL , it's a very tough spot to be in, knowing someone, wanting to help, but not knowing if the message will be received. I've got a family member knee deep in Revolution Financial, an offshoot of World Financial Group, and after 10 months of work, they managed to get to the lowest rung, "Associate". The social media posts over the plaque they were presented rivaled an Oscar acceptance speech, and also called out all the haters telling them it's an MLM, scam, or pyramid scheme. It's truly amazing how these companies mimic cults! Best I can do right now is warn family members to NOT buy into the Indexed Universal Life policies they are shilling.
I did find this article helpful; maybe you will too. https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/43e573/how-to-get-a-friend-out-of-an-mlm-herbalife-amway-younique-
And if you really do want to do a deep dive, Elle's Poonique Blog and the Sounds Like MLM Podcast are worth the time.
Thanks, I did have a read through that article, the extra hard part of this case is the intangible bullshit of the crypto currency aspect of it. It’s perhaps a bit easier to show someone that the numbers don’t add up when buying overpriced beauty products and trying to resell them. Not so easy to kill the hype from a company about some coin that’s going to go to the moon because of bs reasons you have no way of proving or disproving. And the dude should know better, he knows how to run the numbers, he works in finance for crying out loud. Feels good to vent a bit, lol
-
Yes, I completely understand! You buy some crappy lipstick, your finances aren't ruined. You start peddling investments like crypto and an all-in one life insurance/savings product, and the damage can be much more difficult to figure out, while at the same time, the damage can be far worse! The crap my family members peddle is roughly $200/mo, and they tell people that their beneficiary gets the security of a payout if they die (life insurance), and at the same time, they are investing in the market, but in a much less riskier way, so that they don't sustain the losses when the market goes down. Of course, they neglect to mention that they also lose out on most of the earnings when the market goes up. And that the monthly premiums are variable, so after a few years, those monthly payments skyrocket so much that most people bail on the "investment". The only winners are the ones at the top of the pyramid, and the company. How these schemes remain legal is beyond me!
-
Yes, I completely understand! You buy some crappy lipstick, your finances aren't ruined. You start peddling investments like crypto and an all-in one life insurance/savings product, and the damage can be much more difficult to figure out, while at the same time, the damage can be far worse! The crap my family members peddle is roughly $200/mo, and they tell people that their beneficiary gets the security of a payout if they die (life insurance), and at the same time, they are investing in the market, but in a much less riskier way, so that they don't sustain the losses when the market goes down. Of course, they neglect to mention that they also lose out on most of the earnings when the market goes up. And that the monthly premiums are variable, so after a few years, those monthly payments skyrocket so much that most people bail on the "investment". The only winners are the ones at the top of the pyramid, and the company. How these schemes remain legal is beyond me!
Wow, that’s also really awful. I’m guessing you tried talking them out of it already? If so, I’m guessing it didn’t go over well?
-
I found some brand-new LulaRoe shirts and leggings at a thrift store recently. They were really poor quality, no better than something you would buy on a Wal-mart clearance rack. You could definitely tell they would fall apart, pill, and/or stretch out of shape after a few washes. They weren't even worth thrift store prices!
I have a friend who has a 'LulaRoe problem' and often hosts parties for the discounts. She doesn't sell herself, but she's still hundred (thousands??) of dollars into this scheme. She also works two jobs to try to pay off her debt. But keeps buying that crap!
-
If you have Showtime: there is a new TV Series starring Kirsten Dunst about a MLM/Pyramid scheme (Likely based on Amway). Two episodes out, and I'm hooked.
"On becoming a god in central Florida"
I just started watching this show, I'm 3 episodes in. It is fascinating and terrifying. Although I doubt it will do well, it must alienate anyone involved in an MLM. My husband and I keep asking, "I wonder what people in an MLM think about this episode/scene/show?" The answer must be that *their* company is different and nothing like FAM (the company in the show).
MLMs are such good fodder for a dark comedy.
-
I have a friend who has a 'LulaRoe problem' and often hosts parties for the discounts. She doesn't sell herself, but she's still hundred (thousands??) of dollars into this scheme. She also works two jobs to try to pay off her debt. But keeps buying that crap!
First heard of LulaRoe from a coworker who was wearing the clothes. She doesn't sell it herself but referred me to the website which referred me to the local "consultant". I immediately thought MLM and gave it up. No matter how much I liked the clothes, I refuse to get into anything that has so much of a whiff of an MLM (with one exception made). I had relatives that sold Amway and everything was Amway, Amway, Amway. It was really obnoxious to the point that even these relatives' daughters would walk out of the room when their parents started their spiel, and relatives started to avoid them, including my parents who made the mistake of staying in their home once.
The one exception I made was to attend a Tastefully Simple party over 10 years ago in support of a friend who lost her grandchild, when her daughter hosted the party to get her mind on other things. I bought a few things but never signed up to host a party, just wanted to buy the stuff and go.
-
I hate any sort of work talk or self-promotion on Facebook, even if it's a real professional job, where they are doing good things. I just don't want to hear it in my free time.
-
I had a friend start working at Northwestern Mutual selling life insurance (gave up a managerial position at a legitimate company for this), and I warned her beforehand that it didn't get good reviews from staff, and that she had to pay her own phone and supplies and it was $0 salary, 100% commission. Her dad had to subsidize her for a bit and she obviously quit. I don't understand people who have bills thinking these scam companies will be a good idea. She kept trying to get me to set her up with meeting with my COLLEAGUES. It was embarrassing.
Not exactly an MLM but close. A series of bad decisions started by her.
-
I had a friend start working at Northwestern Mutual selling life insurance (gave up a managerial position at a legitimate company for this), and I warned her beforehand that it didn't get good reviews from staff, and that she had to pay her own phone and supplies and it was $0 salary, 100% commission. Her dad had to subsidize her for a bit and she obviously quit. I don't understand people who have bills thinking these scam companies will be a good idea. She kept trying to get me to set her up with meeting with my COLLEAGUES. It was embarrassing.
Not exactly an MLM but close. A series of bad decisions started by her.
There's a networking aspect to pretty much all finance and insurance gigs. Some real estate agencies are even implementing this. An agent I know was told that if she brought people in, she'd receive a portion of their commissions so long as they were with the brokerage.
Basically, she'd be like a mentor to them, and she'd also be incentivized to keep them where they are, even if commissions elsewhere are better. Just like an MLM.
-
She posted a few other benign questions in the group then started putting up posts like, "Snacking is a message to your body to store fat." I'm guessing the mods intervened since that sort of stuff is way off topic.
...
The most recent post was a photo of ice cream cones, with an observation of, "Ha ha the kids had ice cream and I was so good I resisted I just had my coffee." I came within a hairsbreadth of pointing out that if her magic slimming coffee did what she claimed, it would be unnecessary to refrain from eating ice cream, and if her coffee only worked if you used it to replace ice cream the slimming diet industry had sussed that trick more than a century ago.
The sad thing is that if you cut out snacks (which usually do raise your insulin triggering your body to store fat) and replace ice cream with coffee you will probably will lose weight (and save money). Of course, you don't need any special beans or MLM for that.
-
Millennial Women Made LuLaRoe Billions. Then They Paid The Price:
https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/stephaniemcneal/lularoe-millennial-women-entrepreneurship-lawsuits
-
Coworker: starts talking about how she should buy these cool face masks that incorporate silver as a natural antibacterial
Me: ...silver...natural...hmm...Norwex? (I find MLMs oddly fascinating and have spent way too much time reading about them; I can probably reel off all the bigger names.)
Coworker: Yes!
Me: *cannot hide the cringe*
I summoned enough diplomacy to say, well, sure, maybe the silver thing could work, but Norwex itself is a pyramid scheme, and the thing it always reminds me of is this horrifying routine where their reps will wipe up raw chicken with the magic Norwex cloth and they actually believe that sanitizes the surface. So gross!
She laughed and agreed, so at least she's not THAT far down the rabbit hole. She's not selling for them either, thankfully. I wouldn't be able to sustain my diplomatic face through that...
-
Things have been relatively quiet on the MLM front lately, it seems. You just know this idle economy is gping to allow schemers time to dream up new schemes and desperate people to cling to them like life rafts. Its sad and I really hope it doesn't happen, because I despise MLMs, but I doubt it.
-
Things have been relatively quiet on the MLM front lately, it seems.
I don't know. The MLMers I'm acquainted with sell "nutritional products" aka overpriced protein powder and "cleanse" stuff. They've gone all in on the conspiracy theory bandwagon, anti-masks, etc. They're claiming their products boost the immune system so the virus is no threat to them whatsoever.
I think in a way this magical thinking is pretty consistent with the mindset needed to be drawn into a pyramid scheme. It fits into the broad universe of anti-vaxxers, conspiracy theorists and people who think The Secret is real metaphysics.
-
Things have been relatively quiet on the MLM front lately, it seems. You just know this idle economy is gping to allow schemers time to dream up new schemes and desperate people to cling to them like life rafts. Its sad and I really hope it doesn't happen, because I despise MLMs, but I doubt it.
They're all hawking press-on nail products in my Facebook feed right now. And one friend who hawks that has just started advertising a new, very special "opportunity" but we have to contact her to find out the details. Yeah, no.
-
My facebook has been flooded since covid started with one MLM “virtual party” after another. Almost all of them are for some cooking brand I can’t remember right now.
-
SIL posts rarely enough that I forget.
-I just did this wonderful meal in my Pampered Chef air fryer!
-Didn't you just pay extra to get the air fryer function in your new stove?
-Yes, but not all of my friends have that, so I wanted to show the Pamper Chef air fryer.
Because there is a difference between one air fryer and another??
I also have an Optavia coach (or whatever they call themselves) in my friends list. Interesting mix of genuine life tips and the Optavia "family."
-
Things have been relatively quiet on the MLM front lately, it seems. You just know this idle economy is gping to allow schemers time to dream up new schemes and desperate people to cling to them like life rafts. Its sad and I really hope it doesn't happen, because I despise MLMs, but I doubt it.
They're all hawking press-on nail products in my Facebook feed right now. And one friend who hawks that has just started advertising a new, very special "opportunity" but we have to contact her to find out the details. Yeah, no.
I'm seeing a bunch of those too. And while I do like the product (or at least the idea of the product) I can't bring myself to order them knowing that I could order 100 of them for 43 cents each on Alibaba. Maybe I should start my own MLM....
-
-Didn't you just pay extra to get the air fryer function in your new stove?
Is that just a convection oven, or is the thing actually spraying oil into the air?
-
-Didn't you just pay extra to get the air fryer function in your new stove?
Is that just a convection oven, or is the thing actually spraying oil into the air?
No idea, the second option sounds horrendous, though! Maybe they have an attachment? It does advertise convection and air fryer as two separate functions
-
-Didn't you just pay extra to get the air fryer function in your new stove?
Is that just a convection oven, or is the thing actually spraying oil into the air?
Air fryers don't use oil. It's convection coupled with a basket that allows better circulation for crispier food.
-
Things have been relatively quiet on the MLM front lately, it seems. You just know this idle economy is gping to allow schemers time to dream up new schemes and desperate people to cling to them like life rafts. Its sad and I really hope it doesn't happen, because I despise MLMs, but I doubt it.
Not for me they haven't.
The former BB coach who canceled and then signed up again and then canceled again, signed up again! There's a new program out, and she's trying to get me to join (aka, pay $50 for early access).
I declined, because I just started a different program (already on Beachbody), and my husband is doing a lifting program on there that I just finished. In any event, the real bummer is that the end of every workout of the set I'm doing has an ad for "and you need beachbody recover formula!" Yeah, no I don't. I wonder if I should cancel the YMCA membership that I'm not using due to COVID...
Also. been invited to 3 Pampered chef online parties. I love me some pampered chef, but seriously I'm not going to spend $200+ on an air-fryer. I did get a really awesome can opener though.
Plus the CAbi parties. One or two. I declined because: I'm tired. And I live in leggings. And if I can't actually try the stuff on (the whole point of CAbi)...??
And Usborne books.
-
I feel like after a break from the constant MLM's they are on the uprise again. Right now I've got several people I know selling press on nail color. A couple still on the BeachBody train which has seen a bit of an revival because of all the gyms being closed for awhile. And another one selling a new thing I've never heard of something like "the FASTer way" or something. I think it's something like a plan for fasting that I'd have to pay for. But I'd have to message her to find out for sure. She just wants me to be healthy you know.
-
Plus the CAbi parties. One or two. I declined because: I'm tired. And I live in leggings. And if I can't actually try the stuff on (the whole point of CAbi)...??
I've had a few CAbi pieces over the years and their stuff is good quality. There is actually a CAbi outlet store near me so I've actually picked up things there.
-
During lockdown, a friend started doing The Body Shop At Home and invited me to join her FB group, which I did. Suddenly I seemed to be seeing nothing but her posts. The formula seemed to be that every day she'd make one post touting for interaction ("which of these superpowers would you choose" etc.), one linking to the catalogue and inviting orders, and a video of herself dabbing some sort of miracle unguent on her face, which made me laugh because I'm more accustomed to seeing her face covered in mud from playing rugby.
I unfollowed her after the first invitation to ask her how I could sign up to be a consultant myself. WTF? I last wore make-up in 1990, I'm not about to start marketing it.
-
And I live in leggings.
Can I interest you in some LulaRoe?
(MLMs seem to be on the upswing with so much unemployment. They are selling lies marketed as dreams. People are desperate.)
-
How about magnetic lashes?! That’s the latest one I’ve seen. I didn’t know there was such a thing, so I’ve been paying attention to this one out of curiosity. I have no idea what these people are doing/where they’re going during this pandemic that they are buying these lashes. This is not a go to work/run limited errands look. And she posts about the different styles she’s purchased for herself. WHERE is she going with this look during the pandemic???? And when you do go out you’re wearing a mask, so why do you need glamour eyelashes with the less than glamorous mask?
And I noticed that every time she posts, there are all these enthusiastic comments, but from people that aren’t the usual names on her posts. So I investigated and yes, they’re all selling Tori Belle too! It is comical. There must be a requirement that if you’re selling them, you have to comment on other reps’ posts some number of times, too. What a waste of time and money.
-
How about magnetic lashes?! That’s the latest one I’ve seen. I didn’t know there was such a thing, so I’ve been paying attention to this one out of curiosity. I have no idea what these people are doing/where they’re going during this pandemic that they are buying these lashes. This is not a go to work/run limited errands look. And she posts about the different styles she’s purchased for herself. WHERE is she going with this look during the pandemic???? And when you do go out you’re wearing a mask, so why do you need glamour eyelashes with the less than glamorous mask?
And I noticed that every time she posts, there are all these enthusiastic comments, but from people that aren’t the usual names on her posts. So I investigated and yes, they’re all selling Tori Belle too! It is comical. There must be a requirement that if you’re selling them, you have to comment on other reps’ posts some number of times, too. What a waste of time and money.
Fake eyelashes kinda make more sense than press-on nails in light of the increased use of Zoom and other video chat platforms, where people see only your face and shoulders. Also, there's no point in wearing fun lipsticks when the lower half of your face is covered by a mask. I am not inclined to use false lashes (or any eye makeup other than mascara), but someone who is very into cosmetics might buy these instead of those weird MLM liquid lipsticks that never come off.
I don't understand how magnetic lashes work, though. I think I'll stick with my plain mascara. And MLMs suck, full stop.
-
Plus the CAbi parties. One or two. I declined because: I'm tired. And I live in leggings. And if I can't actually try the stuff on (the whole point of CAbi)...??
I've had a few CAbi pieces over the years and their stuff is good quality. There is actually a CAbi outlet store near me so I've actually picked up things there.
All of my favorite clothing items are CAbi. They are quality and really last. My favorite shirt...well, I wore it for my son's first day of kindergarten. He's 14. Oh and I wore it again for kid #2's first day of kindergarten.
The advantage, for me, is not shopping. I can try things on that I would never have picked. But I simply can't look at a catalog and figure out if it would work for me.
-
I feel like after a break from the constant MLM's they are on the uprise again. Right now I've got several people I know selling press on nail color. A couple still on the BeachBody train which has seen a bit of an revival because of all the gyms being closed for awhile. And another one selling a new thing I've never heard of something like "the FASTer way" or something. I think it's something like a plan for fasting that I'd have to pay for. But I'd have to message her to find out for sure. She just wants me to be healthy you know.
Let me tell you ALL about the FASTER WAY to Fat loss! Really, a local mom friend works with them, so I've googled and read things and found out things. Because I'm a nerd.
First of all, it's $199. There's a book, but the book doesn't actually tell you how to do the program. There are several aspects of the program:
1. Fasting. 16-8 (16 hours fasting, 8 hours eating window - it appears that the recommended window is from 12 noon to 8 pm, but dude - I go to bed at 8:45pm).
2. Counting macros (NOT CALORIES). But you know, all macros have calories.
3. Carb cycling - that's how you keep your body guessing
4. Exercise - weight lifting and HIIT
5. Macro cycling (from what I can tell, the "Low macro" day is about 1200 calories. Which:no)
So in any event, as I have read several books that touch on Fasting - I sort of see it as the current "thing". There's info out there about being a "sugar burner" vs a "fat burner" and everything in between. Fasting, supposedly, turns your body towards burning fat so that you can lose fat. Same with lower carb eating. However you still need to eat carbs.
So, it seems like the "regular macro" days are weight lifting days and the low carb days are the HIIT days (when you are a fat burning MACHINE) and the low MACRO days (low cal) are basically the rest days and by the way, cardio is unnecessary.
All this is stuff that you can find through google, and various blogs. I haven't been successful in digging up negative reviews (they are prob out there).
But anyway: $199.
-
And I live in leggings.
Can I interest you in some LulaRoe?
(MLMs seem to be on the upswing with so much unemployment. They are selling lies marketed as dreams. People are desperate.)
I live in the same 2 pair of plain black leggings I got from Costco for $14.95 (for the pair).
-
I feel like after a break from the constant MLM's they are on the uprise again. Right now I've got several people I know selling press on nail color. A couple still on the BeachBody train which has seen a bit of an revival because of all the gyms being closed for awhile. And another one selling a new thing I've never heard of something like "the FASTer way" or something. I think it's something like a plan for fasting that I'd have to pay for. But I'd have to message her to find out for sure. She just wants me to be healthy you know.
Let me tell you ALL about the FASTER WAY to Fat loss! Really, a local mom friend works with them, so I've googled and read things and found out things. Because I'm a nerd.
First of all, it's $199. There's a book, but the book doesn't actually tell you how to do the program. There are several aspects of the program:
1. Fasting. 16-8 (16 hours fasting, 8 hours eating window - it appears that the recommended window is from 12 noon to 8 pm, but dude - I go to bed at 8:45pm).
2. Counting macros (NOT CALORIES). But you know, all macros have calories.
3. Carb cycling - that's how you keep your body guessing
4. Exercise - weight lifting and HIIT
5. Macro cycling (from what I can tell, the "Low macro" day is about 1200 calories. Which:no)
So in any event, as I have read several books that touch on Fasting - I sort of see it as the current "thing". There's info out there about being a "sugar burner" vs a "fat burner" and everything in between. Fasting, supposedly, turns your body towards burning fat so that you can lose fat. Same with lower carb eating. However you still need to eat carbs.
So, it seems like the "regular macro" days are weight lifting days and the low carb days are the HIIT days (when you are a fat burning MACHINE) and the low MACRO days (low cal) are basically the rest days and by the way, cardio is unnecessary.
All this is stuff that you can find through google, and various blogs. I haven't been successful in digging up negative reviews (they are prob out there).
But anyway: $199.
So...$200 to tell people to eat less and exercise more.
-
I feel like after a break from the constant MLM's they are on the uprise again. Right now I've got several people I know selling press on nail color. A couple still on the BeachBody train which has seen a bit of an revival because of all the gyms being closed for awhile. And another one selling a new thing I've never heard of something like "the FASTer way" or something. I think it's something like a plan for fasting that I'd have to pay for. But I'd have to message her to find out for sure. She just wants me to be healthy you know.
Let me tell you ALL about the FASTER WAY to Fat loss! Really, a local mom friend works with them, so I've googled and read things and found out things. Because I'm a nerd.
First of all, it's $199. There's a book, but the book doesn't actually tell you how to do the program. There are several aspects of the program:
1. Fasting. 16-8 (16 hours fasting, 8 hours eating window - it appears that the recommended window is from 12 noon to 8 pm, but dude - I go to bed at 8:45pm).
2. Counting macros (NOT CALORIES). But you know, all macros have calories.
3. Carb cycling - that's how you keep your body guessing
4. Exercise - weight lifting and HIIT
5. Macro cycling (from what I can tell, the "Low macro" day is about 1200 calories. Which:no)
So in any event, as I have read several books that touch on Fasting - I sort of see it as the current "thing". There's info out there about being a "sugar burner" vs a "fat burner" and everything in between. Fasting, supposedly, turns your body towards burning fat so that you can lose fat. Same with lower carb eating. However you still need to eat carbs.
So, it seems like the "regular macro" days are weight lifting days and the low carb days are the HIIT days (when you are a fat burning MACHINE) and the low MACRO days (low cal) are basically the rest days and by the way, cardio is unnecessary.
All this is stuff that you can find through google, and various blogs. I haven't been successful in digging up negative reviews (they are prob out there).
But anyway: $199.
So...$200 to tell people to eat less and exercise more.
Shhhh, you'll spoil the secret.
-
How about magnetic lashes?! That’s the latest one I’ve seen. I didn’t know there was such a thing, so I’ve been paying attention to this one out of curiosity. I have no idea what these people are doing/where they’re going during this pandemic that they are buying these lashes. This is not a go to work/run limited errands look. And she posts about the different styles she’s purchased for herself. WHERE is she going with this look during the pandemic???? And when you do go out you’re wearing a mask, so why do you need glamour eyelashes with the less than glamorous mask?
And I noticed that every time she posts, there are all these enthusiastic comments, but from people that aren’t the usual names on her posts. So I investigated and yes, they’re all selling Tori Belle too! It is comical. There must be a requirement that if you’re selling them, you have to comment on other reps’ posts some number of times, too. What a waste of time and money.
Fake eyelashes kinda make more sense than press-on nails in light of the increased use of Zoom and other video chat platforms, where people see only your face and shoulders. Also, there's no point in wearing fun lipsticks when the lower half of your face is covered by a mask. I am not inclined to use false lashes (or any eye makeup other than mascara), but someone who is very into cosmetics might buy these instead of those weird MLM liquid lipsticks that never come off.
I don't understand how magnetic lashes work, though. I think I'll stick with my plain mascara. And MLMs suck, full stop.
Magnetic lashes are super annoying, like worse than glued on lashes, which I didn't think was possible. I haven't tried the ones that stick to magnetic eyeliner though. I tried the ones where there's two sets of lashes that magnetically click together on top and below your upper lashes to make a lash sandwich. Super bulky and uncomfortable. I lasted less than 3 minutes.
-
I feel like after a break from the constant MLM's they are on the uprise again. Right now I've got several people I know selling press on nail color. A couple still on the BeachBody train which has seen a bit of an revival because of all the gyms being closed for awhile. And another one selling a new thing I've never heard of something like "the FASTer way" or something. I think it's something like a plan for fasting that I'd have to pay for. But I'd have to message her to find out for sure. She just wants me to be healthy you know.
Let me tell you ALL about the FASTER WAY to Fat loss! Really, a local mom friend works with them, so I've googled and read things and found out things. Because I'm a nerd.
First of all, it's $199. There's a book, but the book doesn't actually tell you how to do the program. There are several aspects of the program:
1. Fasting. 16-8 (16 hours fasting, 8 hours eating window - it appears that the recommended window is from 12 noon to 8 pm, but dude - I go to bed at 8:45pm).
2. Counting macros (NOT CALORIES). But you know, all macros have calories.
3. Carb cycling - that's how you keep your body guessing
4. Exercise - weight lifting and HIIT
5. Macro cycling (from what I can tell, the "Low macro" day is about 1200 calories. Which:no)
So in any event, as I have read several books that touch on Fasting - I sort of see it as the current "thing". There's info out there about being a "sugar burner" vs a "fat burner" and everything in between. Fasting, supposedly, turns your body towards burning fat so that you can lose fat. Same with lower carb eating. However you still need to eat carbs.
So, it seems like the "regular macro" days are weight lifting days and the low carb days are the HIIT days (when you are a fat burning MACHINE) and the low MACRO days (low cal) are basically the rest days and by the way, cardio is unnecessary.
All this is stuff that you can find through google, and various blogs. I haven't been successful in digging up negative reviews (they are prob out there).
But anyway: $199.
So...$200 to tell people to eat less and exercise more.
NO NO NO. You CLEARLY don't understand the program at all!
It's the magical combination of all the things that makes it the best program ever.
I mean, if you just lifted weights, did HIIT, and occasionally did cardio along with reducing calories and carbs (but not eliminating carbs), you wouldn't have the SECRET SAUCE that makes this program what it is.
The SECRET, of course, is designing your macros to SPECIFICALLY match the EXACT workout you are doing each day. It's OPTIMAL for your body, don't you know.
OH and fasting turns you into a fat burner. Fat and weight loss has NOTHING to do, of course, with the fact that if you are only eating in an 8 hour window you probably won't be eating as much. It's the magical combination of fasting and macros.
/s
(I'm not arguing that fasting and macro counting don't have their merits. I read enough health books and articles to generally understand the science behind it. And the science is young, in some cases.) I just cannot imagine a world where I'd be willing to FIRST - pay $199 for and SECOND- follow this intricately designed program that tells you what to eat and how to exercise on each specific day (literally counting everything that goes into your mouth), in order to...what? Have six pack abs? Lose 3 pounds? I realize that everyone is different. I have done weight watchers and calorie counting in the past - multiple times. I was fat (182 lbs) in my early 30s, and then I had two babies and ended up with difficult pregnancy weight to take off. Each time, losing the weight was basically a part time job.
Now, however, I'm 50. The thing with this program, and many like it - they say things like:
- You don't have to exercise a ton! It's all about food, exercise if you want! (Not this program, but similar ones.)
- The focus is SOO much on weight loss/ fat loss, and designing your food around that.
How about I design my food intake based on my LIFE. I exercise daily. I love running, walking, weightlifting. I eat to fuel my workouts and my life.
-
How about magnetic lashes?! That’s the latest one I’ve seen. I didn’t know there was such a thing, so I’ve been paying attention to this one out of curiosity. I have no idea what these people are doing/where they’re going during this pandemic that they are buying these lashes. This is not a go to work/run limited errands look. And she posts about the different styles she’s purchased for herself. WHERE is she going with this look during the pandemic???? And when you do go out you’re wearing a mask, so why do you need glamour eyelashes with the less than glamorous mask?
And I noticed that every time she posts, there are all these enthusiastic comments, but from people that aren’t the usual names on her posts. So I investigated and yes, they’re all selling Tori Belle too! It is comical. There must be a requirement that if you’re selling them, you have to comment on other reps’ posts some number of times, too. What a waste of time and money.
Fake eyelashes kinda make more sense than press-on nails in light of the increased use of Zoom and other video chat platforms, where people see only your face and shoulders. Also, there's no point in wearing fun lipsticks when the lower half of your face is covered by a mask. I am not inclined to use false lashes (or any eye makeup other than mascara), but someone who is very into cosmetics might buy these instead of those weird MLM liquid lipsticks that never come off.
I don't understand how magnetic lashes work, though. I think I'll stick with my plain mascara. And MLMs suck, full stop.
Magnetic lashes are super annoying, like worse than glued on lashes, which I didn't think was possible. I haven't tried the ones that stick to magnetic eyeliner though. I tried the ones where there's two sets of lashes that magnetically click together on top and below your upper lashes to make a lash sandwich. Super bulky and uncomfortable. I lasted less than 3 minutes.
That sounds awful.
-
And I live in leggings.
Can I interest you in some LulaRoe?
(MLMs seem to be on the upswing with so much unemployment. They are selling lies marketed as dreams. People are desperate.)
I live in the same 2 pair of plain black leggings I got from Costco for $14.95 (for the pair).
I used to live in Costco leggings, but then they tore, and when I rebought them they had changed the waist band.
LLR doesn't fit me. One size is too small, "tall and curvy" fit my stomach 9 months pregnant but is about 8 inches too long. Also, ugly as sin.
-
.....
I realize that everyone is different. I have done weight watchers and calorie counting in the past - multiple times. I was fat (182 lbs) in my early 30s, and then I had two babies and ended up with difficult pregnancy weight to take off. Each time, losing the weight was basically a part time job.
....
Hmm, Are you calling me fat? Are you implying that I need to go to weight watchers and count calories?
/s
-
Had a close call yesterday. I put a post on my neighborhood Facebook group looking to hire a decorative painter. In response I got a friend request, which I ALMOST accepted without looking. Turns out the person sending the request has a super-sketchy profile page, with a prominent link to their MLM sales page. Sneaky!
-
<snip>
NO NO NO. You CLEARLY don't understand the program at all!
It's the magical combination of all the things that makes it the best program ever.
I mean, if you just lifted weights, did HIIT, and occasionally did cardio along with reducing calories and carbs (but not eliminating carbs), you wouldn't have the SECRET SAUCE that makes this program what it is.
The SECRET, of course, is designing your macros to SPECIFICALLY match the EXACT workout you are doing each day. It's OPTIMAL for your body, don't you know.
OH and fasting turns you into a fat burner. Fat and weight loss has NOTHING to do, of course, with the fact that if you are only eating in an 8 hour window you probably won't be eating as much. It's the magical combination of fasting and macros.
/s
(I'm not arguing that fasting and macro counting don't have their merits. I read enough health books and articles to generally understand the science behind it. And the science is young, in some cases.) I just cannot imagine a world where I'd be willing to FIRST - pay $199 for and SECOND- follow this intricately designed program that tells you what to eat and how to exercise on each specific day (literally counting everything that goes into your mouth), in order to...what? Have six pack abs? Lose 3 pounds? I realize that everyone is different. I have done weight watchers and calorie counting in the past - multiple times. I was fat (182 lbs) in my early 30s, and then I had two babies and ended up with difficult pregnancy weight to take off. Each time, losing the weight was basically a part time job.
Now, however, I'm 50. The thing with this program, and many like it - they say things like:
- You don't have to exercise a ton! It's all about food, exercise if you want! (Not this program, but similar ones.)
- The focus is SOO much on weight loss/ fat loss, and designing your food around that.
How about I design my food intake based on my LIFE. I exercise daily. I love running, walking, weightlifting. I eat to fuel my workouts and my life.
I'm a little older then you, and, boy, does this ring a bell -- the LIFE part, I mean.
I'm twitchy if I don't get out of my chair and do SOMETHING every day. I walk, run, bike, do Pilates, and I've recently added in (frightfully expensive) sessions with a trainer to learn to do Olympic lifts. (I spent close to a decade in my 20s doing regular lifting of free weights, and I'm contemplating something I can do for the next few decades, so it has to be less boring.)
Also, I don't eat when I'm not hungry. In practice this means I have coffee and water (and occasionally cocoa) in the morning, and then have first lunch around 10:30 or 11.
There was an interesting blurb in yesterday's NY Times about time-limited eating. (Looks like it helps people lose weight, is the summary.)
-
There is some merit to the 16-8 fasting method. I can't speak to the "fat burn mode" claims of it, but if you're restricting yourself to eating only in an 8 hour window, you're likely going to consume fewer calories. Which is the single biggest contributor to weight loss.
-
There is some merit to the 16-8 fasting method. I can't speak to the "fat burn mode" claims of it, but if you're restricting yourself to eating only in an 8 hour window, you're likely going to consume fewer calories. Which is the single biggest contributor to weight loss.
Yes, but I don't necessarily think it's a magic number.
16-8 vs 14-10 vs 12-12. It's a sliding scale.
-
Found out a couple my family knows may have got sucked into some kind of stock-trading pyramid scheme where you have to pay a big fee to take a course on day trading, then pay big monthly fees to use their trading platform, and pay the people above you a % of any profits, as well as have to recruit more people to take the courses and sign up for monthly fees. Just terrible all the way around. I hope they don’t lose too much money before they realize it’s all a scam
-
Now my friend from undergrad who hawks Color Street (press-on nail polish) and some not publicly identified cosmetics (message her for details!) is now advertising some wonder product that will improve your posture and eliminate both back fat and the need to wear a bra. Of course, we can’t actually get the name of the product unless we express interest on her Facebook wall, at which point she will PM an invitation to a Facebook “party.”
Nope. I am grateful, however, that she isn’t the type to just spam everyone in her contact list.
-
I was on vacation with family once and got a bad sore throat. My aunt got upset when I (tried to) politely refuse the doterra essential oil pills her DIL had sold her v__v
-
So I'm a bit of a mean girl, but a friend who has been doing click funnels (I have no idea what she sells....I've looked at her websites and never figured it out- I think she literally sells the idea of funnels. I have never figured out what click funnels are and she's posted about them for years) posted about how excited she was after 5 years to be joining the 2 comma club. Which is revenue through your first funnel, not profit.
I really wanted to post- "I'm in the actual 2 comma club thanks to MMM philosophy, how many of those commas do you have in your bank accounts?"
Also there is a $250 (?!) application fee for a 2comma club award from Click Funnels. WHY? Why would you pay that? Are you trying to lose a comma?
(I mean I recognize apparently only 1% of their marketers get this award, so she's likely doing really well. But she was making high six figures as a professional engineer, so she was already doing really well). But it's not a real two commas...)
-
So I'm a bit of a mean girl, but a friend who has been doing click funnels (I have no idea what she sells....I've looked at her websites and never figured it out- I think she literally sells the idea of funnels. I have never figured out what click funnels are and she's posted about them for years) posted about how excited she was after 5 years to be joining the 2 comma club. Which is revenue through your first funnel, not profit.
I really wanted to post- "I'm in the actual 2 comma club thanks to MMM philosophy, how many of those commas do you have in your bank accounts?"
Also there is a $250 (?!) application fee for a 2comma club award from Click Funnels. WHY? Why would you pay that? Are you trying to lose a comma?
I just fell down a hole trying to figure out WTF this shit is, and holy hell have they aggressively put their own messaging out there. It's hard to find anything online about them that isn't marketing copy.
From what I can tell though, it's a tool for building websites to sell things, which ostensibly is supposed to make it more effective to sell whatever shit you sell online. However, they also have a crazy 40% affiliate program, so a lot of people who use it, actually make more money by promoting the software than actually using it to sell their whatever online.
That's why the internet is lousy with marketing copy, because pretty much anyone who uses it as a product will then becomes an aggressive shill for the software, which gives the illusion that software itself is actually so amazing that that's why people are promoting it so much.
At least, that's how I understand it.
-
I was on vacation with family once and got a bad sore throat. My aunt got upset when I (tried to) politely refuse the doterra essential oil pills her DIL had sold her v__v
I have a bad habit of calling them "non-essential oils".
One of my many hobbies is amateur perfumery (my hearing is shot and my vision has never been great-- I might as well make use of one of the few senses I have left). I use several different kinds of essential oil to create fragrances of my own. However the markup on most of them is insane, most of them are highly flammable, some are dangerous to apply to the skin, and they're sold and used without regard to what they're supposed to be used for. A lot of the time the highly pure, ultra-refined stuff is *not* what you want to use in a burner or in a candle, and a small amount in a synthetic carrier oil is often better for the job at hand. Furthermore, most people can't tell the difference between the different kinds of carriers by smell, taste, or texture alone. They pay a fortune for something they can't personally detect.
-
Now my friend from undergrad who hawks Color Street (press-on nail polish) and some not publicly identified cosmetics (message her for details!) is now advertising some wonder product that will improve your posture and eliminate both back fat and the need to wear a bra. Of course, we can’t actually get the name of the product unless we express interest on her Facebook wall, at which point she will PM an invitation to a Facebook “party.”
Nope. I am grateful, however, that she isn’t the type to just spam everyone in her contact list.
Reply with, "But without back fat, where will my man lay his weary head at night?"
-
I was on vacation with family once and got a bad sore throat. My aunt got upset when I (tried to) politely refuse the doterra essential oil pills her DIL had sold her v__v
I just finished watching the “Un-Well” series on Netflix. I used to think of those essential oils as a mostly harmless waste of money. But they’re genuinely dangerous for those who are constantly exposing themselves to irritants for no conceivable reason.
-
I was on vacation with family once and got a bad sore throat. My aunt got upset when I (tried to) politely refuse the doterra essential oil pills her DIL had sold her v__v
I just finished watching the “Un-Well” series on Netflix. I used to think of those essential oils as a mostly harmless waste of money. But they’re genuinely dangerous for those who are constantly exposing themselves to irritants for no conceivable reason.
Most Doterra vendors can't explain what happens when citrus oil or cinnamon oil is absorbed into the skin. Nor do they appear to be aware that wood oils, almost completely without exception, are known carcinogens. The lack of safety awareness is heartbreaking. They can't even tell you what to do if you happen to get some of their product in your eye.
-
I was on vacation with family once and got a bad sore throat. My aunt got upset when I (tried to) politely refuse the doterra essential oil pills her DIL had sold her v__v
I just finished watching the “Un-Well” series on Netflix. I used to think of those essential oils as a mostly harmless waste of money. But they’re genuinely dangerous for those who are constantly exposing themselves to irritants for no conceivable reason.
Most Doterra vendors can't explain what happens when citrus oil or cinnamon oil is absorbed into the skin. Nor do they appear to be aware that wood oils, almost completely without exception, are known carcinogens. The lack of safety awareness is heartbreaking. They can't even tell you what to do if you happen to get some of their product in your eye.
My brother had some oils that you dipped a toothpick in and munched on that for taste. It was probably manufactured as a tobacco thing, but that is how he used them. The very young foster kids got into the cinnamon one. Three children and several years of foster kids and that was the only time Mom ever called poison control.
-
So I'm a bit of a mean girl, but a friend who has been doing click funnels (I have no idea what she sells....I've looked at her websites and never figured it out- I think she literally sells the idea of funnels. I have never figured out what click funnels are and she's posted about them for years) posted about how excited she was after 5 years to be joining the 2 comma club. Which is revenue through your first funnel, not profit.
I really wanted to post- "I'm in the actual 2 comma club thanks to MMM philosophy, how many of those commas do you have in your bank accounts?"
Also there is a $250 (?!) application fee for a 2comma club award from Click Funnels. WHY? Why would you pay that? Are you trying to lose a comma?
I just fell down a hole trying to figure out WTF this shit is, and holy hell have they aggressively put their own messaging out there. It's hard to find anything online about them that isn't marketing copy.
Wow, you weren't kidding. I thought certainly Quora would tell me something... 46 answers to "what are click funnels?" and every one of them is trying to sell it.
-
So I'm a bit of a mean girl, but a friend who has been doing click funnels (I have no idea what she sells....I've looked at her websites and never figured it out- I think she literally sells the idea of funnels. I have never figured out what click funnels are and she's posted about them for years) posted about how excited she was after 5 years to be joining the 2 comma club. Which is revenue through your first funnel, not profit.
I really wanted to post- "I'm in the actual 2 comma club thanks to MMM philosophy, how many of those commas do you have in your bank accounts?"
Also there is a $250 (?!) application fee for a 2comma club award from Click Funnels. WHY? Why would you pay that? Are you trying to lose a comma?
I just fell down a hole trying to figure out WTF this shit is, and holy hell have they aggressively put their own messaging out there. It's hard to find anything online about them that isn't marketing copy.
Wow, you weren't kidding. I thought certainly Quora would tell me something... 46 answers to "what are click funnels?" and every one of them is trying to sell it.
Makes me feel like the creator(s) had a sense of humour evil and jokingly made their pyramid scheme a "reverse funnel".
-
The Optavia pusher on my feed is offering to help people change their lives "not an MLM." Oh, so you won't mention Optavia like you generally do?
I asked for ideas on cooking veggies in the microwave during the heatwave and got a Tupperware pusher trying to get me to join their page for all the great recipes.
-
Haven't seen it in years but now ColorStreet is suddenly popular on Nextdoor again.
And there's been a ton of Herbalife/magical weight loss juice/pills/lipo posts lately as well.
I'm a lead for my neighborhood, so I take great pleasure in zapping all that MLM crap off there. :)
-
I was on vacation with family once and got a bad sore throat. My aunt got upset when I (tried to) politely refuse the doterra essential oil pills her DIL had sold her v__v
I just finished watching the “Un-Well” series on Netflix. I used to think of those essential oils as a mostly harmless waste of money. But they’re genuinely dangerous for those who are constantly exposing themselves to irritants for no conceivable reason.
Most Doterra vendors can't explain what happens when citrus oil or cinnamon oil is absorbed into the skin. Nor do they appear to be aware that wood oils, almost completely without exception, are known carcinogens. The lack of safety awareness is heartbreaking. They can't even tell you what to do if you happen to get some of their product in your eye.
I got hives just reading the term "wood oils". I had to remind myself that what I read is not in the room. I touch pine sap or breath pine pollen and I am a mess for days. I think cedar and oak are likely issues too, but have been staying away.
-
One friend on FB is for whatever reason dipping her toe into the Usborne book thing or whatever it's called. She did it once, I will forgive it. Next time, I'll ask her what's up.
An acquaintance on FB is trying to lose weight/get healthier. To help, she's drinking some sort of powder that is supposed to aid weight loss. I think the impact is probably more that she's drinking more water and is eating less junk food. And she has 3 big dogs. How about you just take each of them on long walks, every day? Good for the dog, good exercise for her.
-
my cousin has just got into lereve and is trying to sell me skin care, candles and oils. I am hoping she stops talking to me about it soon
-
when a MLM hawker approaches me, I ask how much commission they get, their team lead, and the person above them.
if they give numbers or say some, I ask the seller "why is it that you're making the effort but their combined commission is same or more than yours?"
then i ask them if they paid for inventory. mostly that's a yes.
finally i turn the conversation around and tell them they're getting robbed in daylight.
final Q: why are you paying to get robbed?
at that point they usually walk away realizing i'm not parting with my money.
don't know why it is, but at the military customer facility i go to weekly, there's tons of minivans and SUVs with MLM nonsense stuck on the rear windscreen.
-
don't know why it is, but at the military customer facility i go to weekly, there's tons of minivans and SUVs with MLM nonsense stuck on the rear windscreen.
Military spouses that move every couple of years and therefore have a hard time establishing a career are a target audience for MLMs. Add in being moms with limited education = perfect victim.
-
don't know why it is, but at the military customer facility i go to weekly, there's tons of minivans and SUVs with MLM nonsense stuck on the rear windscreen.
Military spouses that move every couple of years and therefore have a hard time establishing a career are a target audience for MLMs. Add in being moms with limited education = perfect victim.
Not only that, but they move around and get to meet potential new victims customers wherever they go.
-
don't know why it is, but at the military customer facility i go to weekly, there's tons of minivans and SUVs with MLM nonsense stuck on the rear windscreen.
Military spouses that move every couple of years and therefore have a hard time establishing a career are a target audience for MLMs. Add in being moms with limited education = perfect victim.
Not only that, but they move around and get to meet potential new victims customers wherever they go.
Not really. Military markets are totally saturated with sales reps. No one who just PCSed is going to be introducing anything new. It's going to be even harder for them to re-establish a customer base.
-
Hello everyone!
Its been awhile since I posted here. I had cancelled my previous account but decided to come back (Using my same old name) because I need some positivity in my life and to tell you all about a phone call I received yesterday.
I was working yesterday when my phone rang. A California number which I don't have saved showed up on my cell screen. I decided, not really sure why, that instead of hanging up the call like I normally would for numbers I don't know that I would instead use let Google caller id answer for me. This tells the person I'm screening the call and types out any response given by the caller. To my amazement, a person I haven't spoken to for over a decade identifies himself. I automatically answer the call because I actually enjoy speaking with him and since our relationship revolves around me working on his vehicles, I'm thinking he's calling to have me quote a vehicle repair over the phone. Buuuuuuuuttt of course that's not it.
After a few minutes catching up, I learned he's now in California which surprises me because I'm in Ohio, so maybe he's not calling for me to work on one of his cars but instead to see if he can refer me to someone else local. As you can see I'm still thinking positively. This all turns to shit when he says, "You might be wondering why I'm calling you after all these years?" I reply I'm confused since it seems he's definitely not calling for what we normally used to revolves around. Then he lays it out, "I started a business and it's booming and I'm looking to expand and you were one of the first people I thought of."
At that moment my spider senses were bgoing off like crazy. Why would he be thinking of me when I can't even recall the last time we spoke? I honestly can't recall his face, it's been that long. He also has absolutely no clue what the heck I've been up to for all these years, for all he knows I'm a drug addict, alcoholic and a thief. Like, why are you offering me a business opportunity from across the US?
So I respond, "Hmmm, okay."
And he goes on his sales pitch.
He's been a financial planner for over 5 years, business is booming, he has a bunch of guys working for him across the US, all making lots of money which he keeps calling "Passive Residual Income" (WTF?) and now he wants to "Open an office" in Ohio and needs me to make it happen.
Like bro, what the actual fuck? You have absolutely no fucking clue who I am or what the fuck I've been up to in over a decade. I automatically thought of WFG/Primerica bullshit, since years ago I tried, unsuccessfully to stop a friend from getting into it before she wasted over $2k in the scheme and I'm ready to throw the phone at the wall. What was I thinking answering the call???
So I ask who the company he works for is to confirm but of course he doesn't give me a straight answer but goes around it by telling me I'll be my own boss, work how many hours I want, start part time and build from there all the while repeating, "It's all about that Passive Residual Income!".
I told him I'm not looking for any more work, I'm perfectly fine doing what I'm currently doing but of course he wants to show me the training, via a Zoom call, which will only take like 20 minutes and will help me identify what points, in m my own financial life, I need to work on.
"So when can I out you down for?" He asks.
Like an idiot, instead of telling him the truth, I tried to avoid the obvious conversation which is that he's calling me after all these years not because he cares but because to him, I guess I'm an easy mark which will go along with it and be part of his downline.
I told him I wasn't sure what time would work for me and that I would let him know later. He asked for my email address to keep in contact and I gave it to him just to get off the phone.
He "Penciled me" for Saturday at noon and said he would send me the Zoom link for that day, just to make sure I got in before anyone else cause "he thought of me right away".
I got the email yesterday, about a half hour after we hung up. Still no desdripyof the company, business model, real way to open up an office across the nation etc etc. Just a "It was fun catching up. Glad you want to be on board. Here's the zoom link."
I spent the last hour typing and retyping my response because at first I wanted to tell him to go fuck himself but decided to instead to tell him, without personal details, that my wife and I save/invest over 30% of out income. Se have no debt but a mortgage and will be FIRE by the time I'm 52yo. I don't need his services and neither do I care to become someone's downline since I know all about WFG/Primerica/Transmerica having tried stopping a good friend from getting involved in it before she lost a lot of money.
I blocked his number and after he responds to the email, I do want to read it, will send his emails to the spam list.
I hate MLM scum.
-
don't know why it is, but at the military customer facility i go to weekly, there's tons of minivans and SUVs with MLM nonsense stuck on the rear windscreen.
Military spouses that move every couple of years and therefore have a hard time establishing a career are a target audience for MLMs. Add in being moms with limited education = perfect victim.
Not only that, but they move around and get to meet potential new victims customers wherever they go.
That is really sad. I hate the whole "I run my own business" female empowerment spiel that they sell to SAHMs mostly. It's just so awful how they exploit these womens' wish to work outside the home.
-
This is an MLM story from a few years back.
When I resigned a job to have more time to care for my mother who was sick with cancer, one of my coworkers offered me some doTerra essential oils, as an alternative treatment for her cancer.
Only now am I realizing how screwed up that was.
-
So I ask who the company he works for is to confirm but of course he doesn't give me a straight answer but goes around it by telling me I'll be my own boss, work how many hours I want, start part time and build from there all the while repeating, "It's all about that Passive Residual Income!".
When it sounds like he's reading from a script and not even acknowledging what you're saying, it's because that's precisely what's happening.
-
So I ask who the company he works for is to confirm but of course he doesn't give me a straight answer but goes around it by telling me I'll be my own boss, work how many hours I want, start part time and build from there all the while repeating, "It's all about that Passive Residual Income!".
When it sounds like he's reading from a script and not even acknowledging what you're saying, it's because that's precisely what's happening.
It was so annoying. I actually thought he had called because he wanted my services and valued my work but it wasn't so. I can't believe he would call someone he hasn't spoken to in over a decade, out of the blue, to pitch a MLM scheme. So infuriating and disrespectful.
-
This was his response email:
I'm happy that you and your family are doing well financially. Many families are not. Every business in the USA is a MLM. Their just titled, named differently. The problem is that we are on the wrong side of it. Think about this, " what if " I can achieve all those goal under 2 yrs and have a business that generates $30,000 plus per month! Create a legacy for my kids, generational wealth. So they never have a boss! That's what it all about! Paying it forward to teach others that they also can do it.. Nothing else.. See, working for someone will never give the opportunity to do that. You guys are hella sharp, but your on the wrong side of the spectrum. Think about it and let me know.
P.S. It's about achieving freedom sooner than later and building a business that you can pass to your kids!
I sent it to spam without replying.
-
I love the "every business is a pyramid scheme" line.
No, no they aren't. Yes- the CEO makes more than I do, and there is only one of him. There are fewer VPs than AVPs. Sure, you could make a pyramid out of our org chart. But it's not a scheme. And it's NOT multi-level marketing.
I get paid a steady paycheck, with steady benefits, and I do not have to buy into my company. I have a defined job. I don't pretend to be an "owner" of a company I have no say in and no control over. I don't spend more with my company than they pay me. I have no requirement to recruit for my company to make money.
-
Exactly. He's just a middle man who rips off other middle men. Needless to say, I certainly won't be talking to him ever again.
-
This was his response email:
I'm happy that you and your family are doing well financially. Many families are not. Every business in the USA is a MLM. Their just titled, named differently. The problem is that we are on the wrong side of it. Think about this, " what if " I can achieve all those goal under 2 yrs and have a business that generates $30,000 plus per month! Create a legacy for my kids, generational wealth. So they never have a boss! That's what it all about! Paying it forward to teach others that they also can do it.. Nothing else.. See, working for someone will never give the opportunity to do that. You guys are hella sharp, but your on the wrong side of the spectrum. Think about it and let me know.
P.S. It's about achieving freedom sooner than later and building a business that you can pass to your kids!
I sent it to spam without replying.
Again with the scripting. Did that actually look like a response to what you said specifically? It's another deflecting advertisement.
-
No, I was detailed with my plan to FIRE and what I'm doing to get there. His response completely looked over that as if it was nothing important and instead went back to his sale's pitch.
So done :(
-
This was his response email:
I'm happy that you and your family are doing well financially. Many families are not. Every business in the USA is a MLM. Their just titled, named differently. The problem is that we are on the wrong side of it. Think about this, " what if " I can achieve all those goal under 2 yrs and have a business that generates $30,000 plus per month! Create a legacy for my kids, generational wealth. So they never have a boss! That's what it all about! Paying it forward to teach others that they also can do it.. Nothing else.. See, working for someone will never give the opportunity to do that. You guys are hella sharp, but your on the wrong side of the spectrum. Think about it and let me know.
P.S. It's about achieving freedom sooner than later and building a business that you can pass to your kids!
I sent it to spam without replying.
But why would you resort to earning only $30K/month doing...well...whatever it is he's trying to convince you to do, when you could make *hundreds* of thousands a month by becoming a movie star??
Seems more fucking plausible.
-
I FIRED last month. At 42. I announced my “retirement” on FB, not sure that was smart but I felt like I wanted credit for working 20 years you know?! Anyway minutes after posting I got a PM from an old elementary school friend that I haven’t seen or spoken to in 25 years at least. He wanted to know if I would be interested in an opportunity to make “passive residual income” selling life insurance. The commissions would continue “forever” and be passed to my heirs.
I thanked him and explained that I already have residual income, called dividends that’s why I’m retiring.
-
It looks like several of my co-workers have fallen into the same MLM. I overheard them talking about it this week, but I didn't catch the brand. Another has been trying to sell food prep services, though I think this is more of a traditional side hustle. I bought some empanadas to freeze.
-
It looks like several of my co-workers have fallen into the same MLM. I overheard them talking about it this week, but I didn't catch the brand. Another has been trying to sell food prep services, though I think this is more of a traditional side hustle. I bought some empanadas to freeze.
I want homemade empanadas! Which country of origin? What fillings?
-
It looks like several of my co-workers have fallen into the same MLM. I overheard them talking about it this week, but I didn't catch the brand. Another has been trying to sell food prep services, though I think this is more of a traditional side hustle. I bought some empanadas to freeze.
I want homemade empanadas! Which country of origin? What fillings?
USA. I chose chicken, but she was selling potato fillings and vegetable varieties as well. She's trying to make extra money because of a spouse out of work.
-
It looks like several of my co-workers have fallen into the same MLM. I overheard them talking about it this week, but I didn't catch the brand. Another has been trying to sell food prep services, though I think this is more of a traditional side hustle. I bought some empanadas to freeze.
I want homemade empanadas! Which country of origin? What fillings?
USA. I chose chicken, but she was selling potato fillings and vegetable varieties as well. She's trying to make extra money because of a spouse out of work.
I did that a few times, since I make killer "picadillo" empanadas and sold a bunch at work. Instead of frozen I sold premade ones that just needed a bit of reheating. I think my last batch made me over $95 for a few hours of work. The biggest issue was the oil smell from frying them inside, it was just too much so I stopped.
Now I want some ;)
-
It looks like several of my co-workers have fallen into the same MLM. I overheard them talking about it this week, but I didn't catch the brand. Another has been trying to sell food prep services, though I think this is more of a traditional side hustle. I bought some empanadas to freeze.
Yeah, if they’re making the food themselves, selling directly to customers, and keeping all of the profit, it’s actual self-employment rather than MLM. My aunt (dad’s sister) sells homemade salsa, and one of dad’s cousins sells homemade tamales.
-
It looks like several of my co-workers have fallen into the same MLM. I overheard them talking about it this week, but I didn't catch the brand. Another has been trying to sell food prep services, though I think this is more of a traditional side hustle. I bought some empanadas to freeze.
Yeah, if they’re making the food themselves, selling directly to customers, and keeping all of the profit, it’s actual self-employment rather than MLM. My aunt (dad’s sister) sells homemade salsa, and one of dad’s cousins sells homemade tamales.
I've tried over the years to get my MIL to bottle her homemade salsa and sell it, it's absolutely amazing.
Her name is Sal, so of course I named it "Sal's Sas" but she doesn't want to. I have tried to get her to show me how to make it but she's holding onto the recipe with everything she's got :)
-
Had no idea that there are so many different MLMs!
-
Had no idea that there are so many different MLMs!
Yes, and they just keep popping up.
Got invited to another "Color Street" party. This invitation came from someone who ended up selling her huge Lularoe inventory at a significant loss a couple of years ago. You'd think she'd have learned...
-
I had never heard of Color Street until just recently and now it's everywhere! One good friend has been sucked in and is considering signing up to sell. She just held a party and must have purchased 10 more sets of pre-painted nail polish on top of what sounds like a large number that she already had. At $10-13 a pop, that's hundreds of dollars in nail polish!
-
Had no idea that there are so many different MLMs!
Yes, and they just keep popping up.
Got invited to another "Color Street" party. This invitation came from someone who ended up selling her huge Lularoe inventory at a significant loss a couple of years ago. You'd think she'd have learned...
I'm amazed how many MLM sellers are frequent fliers- hoping from one company to the next.
There was a huge uproar awhile back because Beachbody (?) required exclusivity. And it seems most Beachbody "coaches" also sold LLR or Younique.
-
I had never heard of Color Street until just recently and now it's everywhere!
These things go in waves. The old product gets saturated so the type of people attracted to these things move on to the next product. And 'round and 'round it goes.
-
Had no idea that there are so many different MLMs!
Yes, and they just keep popping up.
Got invited to another "Color Street" party. This invitation came from someone who ended up selling her huge Lularoe inventory at a significant loss a couple of years ago. You'd think she'd have learned...
I'm amazed how many MLM sellers are frequent fliers- hoping from one company to the next.
There was a huge uproar awhile back because Beachbody (?) required exclusivity. And it seems most Beachbody "coaches" also sold LLR or Younique.
That's interesting. Two of my coworkers are beachbody "coaches" and one also sells Rodan and Fields and the other sells some kind of makeup.
-
]
That's interesting. Two of my coworkers are beachbody "coaches" and one also sells Rodan and Fields and the other sells some kind of makeup.
They eventually backed off due to the negative firestorm of responses. Apparently too many of their "clients" were going to chose "the others" over BeachBody.
They now only require exclusivity if you're "Star Diamond" (???) level or above.
-
Had no idea that there are so many different MLMs!
Yes, and they just keep popping up.
Got invited to another "Color Street" party. This invitation came from someone who ended up selling her huge Lularoe inventory at a significant loss a couple of years ago. You'd think she'd have learned...
I'm amazed how many MLM sellers are frequent fliers- hoping from one company to the next.
There was a huge uproar awhile back because Beachbody (?) required exclusivity. And it seems most Beachbody "coaches" also sold LLR or Younique.
That's interesting. Two of my coworkers are beachbody "coaches" and one also sells Rodan and Fields and the other sells some kind of makeup.
]
That's interesting. Two of my coworkers are beachbody "coaches" and one also sells Rodan and Fields and the other sells some kind of makeup.
They eventually backed off due to the negative firestorm of responses. Apparently too many of their "clients" were going to chose "the others" over BeachBody.
They now only require exclusivity if you're "Star Diamond" (???) level or above.
Ah, that makes sense. I have a few friends who are Beachbody coaches. I remember, vaguely, when they made the exclusivity rule, because they quit. (At the time, one of them was hawking wine, and I don't know what the other one was hawking. Oh yeah! Valentus "magic" coffee.)
But then one of them came back to the fold, so to speak. The wine thing didn't work out. She's doing a lot of part time thing (dog walking, dog sitting, Beachbody, run-coaching). The other one...I don't hear her talk so much about the magic coffee anymore. She still does beachbody workouts but I don't think she's a coach anymore. She's now hawking "safe" and "natural" skincare.
-
Beachbody actually has decent workouts. I just don't need a disgusting shake.
You can get the workouts online without a "coach".
-
I received a new online party invite this week- Ziya Activewear. Crazy expensive workout clothing. Looks like reps make a 20% commission for selling to you via Facebook.
-
I received a new online party invite this week- Ziya Activewear. Crazy expensive workout clothing. Looks like reps make a 20% commission for selling to you via Facebook.
One of my cousins just started selling this. Never heard of them before. They must be the hot new thing.
-
How many of these things would be available from a low cost Asian supplier on the internet - the clothing, the gear, etc?
-
Beachbody actually has decent workouts. I just don't need a disgusting shake.
You can get the workouts online without a "coach".
Yep. I really enjoy the workouts. Not so much "you should drink Energize before this workout." or "Beachbody recovery formula would be perfect after this workout." ads...
-
How many of these things would be available from a low cost Asian supplier on the internet - the clothing, the gear, etc?
Substitute products are available for all of them. Usually the actual product isn't just a rebranded generic though.
But a substitute product for pretty much MLM is available EVERYWHERE. None of them sell anything unique.
-
I joined a local moms internet group, which people seem to be using to shill their MLMs. It's really sad to see other new people join, looking for community and social connections, but instead getting sales pitches for these dumb companies.
There are also posts along the lines of, "Hi everyone, I just had a baby and am looking for some part-time work from home. Does anyone have ideas?" The responses are just an MLM feeding frenzy. I can't bear to watch!
-
I was following the story about Trump retweeting an article from Babylon Bee (similar to "The Onion" - a satire website) and just happened to see this beauty:
https://babylonbee.com/news/babylon-mom-how-this-momboss-almost-breaks-even-with-essential-oils (https://babylonbee.com/news/babylon-mom-how-this-momboss-almost-breaks-even-with-essential-oils)
And it contains gems like these:
"This is the part where people usually say, “Hey, that sounds like a pyramid scheme!” But if it were truly a pyramid scheme, would it involve being contractually obligated to purchase products you don’t need so that the person who recruited you can get a cut of those proceeds? I don't think so!"
-
How many of these things would be available from a low cost Asian supplier on the internet - the clothing, the gear, etc?
Substitute products are available for all of them. Usually the actual product isn't just a rebranded generic though.
But a substitute product for pretty much MLM is available EVERYWHERE. None of them sell anything unique.
I was thinking of all the things I've searched for online only to discover one specific version rebranded with 30 different names. Wondered if MLM stuff was every like this.
-
How many of these things would be available from a low cost Asian supplier on the internet - the clothing, the gear, etc?
Substitute products are available for all of them. Usually the actual product isn't just a rebranded generic though.
But a substitute product for pretty much MLM is available EVERYWHERE. None of them sell anything unique.
I was thinking of all the things I've searched for online only to discover one specific version rebranded with 30 different names. Wondered if MLM stuff was every like this.
Pretty much. Or it's more expensive and worse quality, like Lularoe clothing or Lipsense impermeable liquid lipstick.
-
I was following the story about Trump retweeting an article from Babylon Bee (similar to "The Onion" - a satire website) and just happened to see this beauty:
https://babylonbee.com/news/babylon-mom-how-this-momboss-almost-breaks-even-with-essential-oils (https://babylonbee.com/news/babylon-mom-how-this-momboss-almost-breaks-even-with-essential-oils)
And it contains gems like these:
"This is the part where people usually say, “Hey, that sounds like a pyramid scheme!” But if it were truly a pyramid scheme, would it involve being contractually obligated to purchase products you don’t need so that the person who recruited you can get a cut of those proceeds? I don't think so!"
That was a great piece. Thanks for posting it!
-
I was following the story about Trump retweeting an article from Babylon Bee (similar to "The Onion" - a satire website) and just happened to see this beauty:
https://babylonbee.com/news/babylon-mom-how-this-momboss-almost-breaks-even-with-essential-oils (https://babylonbee.com/news/babylon-mom-how-this-momboss-almost-breaks-even-with-essential-oils)
And it contains gems like these:
"This is the part where people usually say, “Hey, that sounds like a pyramid scheme!” But if it were truly a pyramid scheme, would it involve being contractually obligated to purchase products you don’t need so that the person who recruited you can get a cut of those proceeds? I don't think so!"
That was absolute gold, nothing beats a good MLM roast
-
I asked a relative of mine if he thought of taking vitamins because he seemed tired. I added that I had been B deficient, and that with just one simple fix I was feeling better.
Mistakenly assuming he didn't think me a total motherfucking asshole with an ulterior motive, I hit send. "Worst case scenario," I thought, "he knows I'm thinking of him."
Nope. He comes back telling that it sounds like I got myself into selling vitamins and he wasn't buying.
I almost replied, NOT JUST VITAMINS, BUT AN OPPORTUNITY FOR YOU TO GET IN ON THE GROUND FLOOR!!!!!!
-
I asked a relative of mine if he thought of taking vitamins because he seemed tired. I added that I had been B deficient, and that with just one simple fix I was feeling better.
Mistakenly assuming he didn't think me a total motherfucking asshole with an ulterior motive, I hit send. "Worst case scenario," I thought, "he knows I'm thinking of him."
Nope. He comes back telling that it sounds like I got myself into selling vitamins and he wasn't buying.
I almost replied, NOT JUST VITAMINS, BUT AN OPPORTUNITY FOR YOU TO GET IN ON THE GROUND FLOOR!!!!!!
LOL
-
The beachbody workouts are actually pretty good, just don't buy their overpriced shakes and other stuff. My GF and I share a monthly sub to the online workouts. It's considerably cheaper than a gym membership and more effective, at least for us. No trekking to the gym, fighting for weights, people who don't wipe down equipment, etc...but yes, I have known a couple "coaches". Not sure what exactly they do.
-
My best friend has apparently agreed to host an online Pampered Chef party for another friend. While I do like the PC items that I've inherited over the years, I just don't need any more stuff in my kitchen and don't want to support an MLM. I hope they don't like put me on the spot.
-
oh my goodness. Have you seen this article!? Is this real life? "Ponzi Scheme Suspect Uses Underwater Scooter to Flee F.B.I.
After a chase, Matthew Piercey disappeared underwater using a submersible scooter, the authorities said. When he surfaced, agents were waiting with dry clothes his wife had provided."
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/18/us/matthew-piercey-ponzi-scheme.html?smid=fb-share&fbclid=IwAR28IKhK9t10W6hhM29hxpEMPio4qJR1Fou-xLW7pc0RrVcbUhzua3JrB84
(In the past week I have been invited to a norwix party, a pampered chef party and... another "home shopping" party and I can't figure out how to get out of seeing all those posts on my Facebook without blocking the inviters.)
-
The beachbody workouts are actually pretty good, just don't buy their overpriced shakes and other stuff. My GF and I share a monthly sub to the online workouts. It's considerably cheaper than a gym membership and more effective, at least for us. No trekking to the gym, fighting for weights, people who don't wipe down equipment, etc...but yes, I have known a couple "coaches". Not sure what exactly they do.
They "give support", make recommendations, and run Facebook support groups.
So, for example, a new program comes out and they get people to sign up and pay for it (new programs don't come out on BOD for several months, so you have to pay for early access). Then, they pick a "start date" and they all workout "together" and high five each other, etc. Some coaches are actually fitness trainers or nutritionists, so they can also make dietary recommendations, etc.
For certain people, it can be helpful. Much like WW, some success comes in with a feeling of belonging.
One of the people I know locally who is a BB coach actually owns a fitness business and (when gyms aren't closed), runs twice daily workouts, meaning he has a large screen TV and he and the folks who show up work out together. (Usually only 1-4 people, tbh.)
-
Are people gathering in person for these parties? In 2020?
-
oh my goodness. Have you seen this article!? Is this real life? "Ponzi Scheme Suspect Uses Underwater Scooter to Flee F.B.I.
After a chase, Matthew Piercey disappeared underwater using a submersible scooter, the authorities said. When he surfaced, agents were waiting with dry clothes his wife had provided."
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/18/us/matthew-piercey-ponzi-scheme.html?smid=fb-share&fbclid=IwAR28IKhK9t10W6hhM29hxpEMPio4qJR1Fou-xLW7pc0RrVcbUhzua3JrB84
(In the past week I have been invited to a norwix party, a pampered chef party and... another "home shopping" party and I can't figure out how to get out of seeing all those posts on my Facebook without blocking the inviters.)
You could do a temporary hide (I think it's 30 days) for the poster.
-
oh my goodness. Have you seen this article!? Is this real life? "Ponzi Scheme Suspect Uses Underwater Scooter to Flee F.B.I.
After a chase, Matthew Piercey disappeared underwater using a submersible scooter, the authorities said. When he surfaced, agents were waiting with dry clothes his wife had provided."
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/18/us/matthew-piercey-ponzi-scheme.html?smid=fb-share&fbclid=IwAR28IKhK9t10W6hhM29hxpEMPio4qJR1Fou-xLW7pc0RrVcbUhzua3JrB84
(In the past week I have been invited to a norwix party, a pampered chef party and... another "home shopping" party and I can't figure out how to get out of seeing all those posts on my Facebook without blocking the inviters.)
You could do a temporary hide (I think it's 30 days) for the poster.
You can also just unfollow people. You're still friends, but you don't see their stuff unless you go to their wall.
-
I’ve declined the invites but it still shows me posts with this header. Oh well! I need less social media anyway.
-
One of my FB acquaintances has been posting lately about something a friend of her's is doing. The amount of emojis in the message is distinctly in MLM territory. But it's for credit repair and how you can have bad trade lines removed "whether you owe them or not." Having spent the better part of three years rehabbing my ex-husband's credit, I'm familiar with the process, but that seems way shady.
-
Are people gathering in person for these parties? In 2020?
No, usually they're online video "parties" that are basically just people watching a hun give a presentation and try to convince them to buy crap. There's usually a few other huns planted in the audience to comment a bunch and try to drum up interest, but they're about as entertaining as a root canal for anyone else.
-
Ack, I participated in a friend's FB usborne book party because I wanted to be nice. I bought two books, and that was fine. BUT THEN I got the notification that I 'won' the door prize. Silly me, I thought it would be, you know, a book. It wasn't. Option one for my prize was that I get to 'host a party,' and if I do, then I get $20 in free books (that's about 2 books for the pleasure of harassing all my closest friends). Option two, is free shipping on my next order of $40 or more. I chose the free shipping, and I won't be ordering. Gah!
-
Ack, I participated in a friend's FB usborne book party because I wanted to be nice. I bought two books, and that was fine. BUT THEN I got the notification that I 'won' the door prize. Silly me, I thought it would be, you know, a book. It wasn't. Option one for my prize was that I get to 'host a party,' and if I do, then I get $20 in free books (that's about 2 books for the pleasure of harassing all my closest friends). Option two, is free shipping on my next order of $40 or more. I chose the free shipping, and I won't be ordering. Gah!
Points for cleverness. You either become a seller or remain a customer.
-
Ack, I participated in a friend's FB usborne book party because I wanted to be nice. I bought two books, and that was fine. BUT THEN I got the notification that I 'won' the door prize. Silly me, I thought it would be, you know, a book. It wasn't. Option one for my prize was that I get to 'host a party,' and if I do, then I get $20 in free books (that's about 2 books for the pleasure of harassing all my closest friends). Option two, is free shipping on my next order of $40 or more. I chose the free shipping, and I won't be ordering. Gah!
I'd bet money that everybody in attendance "won" the door prize. If you can call it a prize.
-
I have someone on FB involved with what appears to be a CBD oil MLM.
-
Has anyone seen a useful effect of CBD oil? A friend gave me a little bottle. I couldn't see any benefits. It seems to everywhere though.
-
Has anyone seen a useful effect of CBD oil? A friend gave me a little bottle. I couldn't see any benefits. It seems to everywhere though.
It's the new essential oil that makes all the rest nonessential... although they kind of already were.
-
Has anyone seen a useful effect of CBD oil? A friend gave me a little bottle. I couldn't see any benefits. It seems to everywhere though.
It's one of those things that you buy because you have a pre-existing specific need that this would work for.. and there is some research (not fully concluded) that suggests that it needs to have tiny bit of active compounds, say at 5-10% ratio to the CBD to be effective. Synergistic effect or something.
Lots of seniors with underlying on-going physical ailments love it (and the active variety of oil too). These are people that would never drink to excess or enjoy drugs otherwise, all their lives. That suggests that there is something to it, not just addictive reasons.
-
Has anyone seen a useful effect of CBD oil? A friend gave me a little bottle. I couldn't see any benefits. It seems to everywhere though.
It's one of those things that you buy because you have a pre-existing specific need that this would work for.. and there is some research (not fully concluded) that suggests that it needs to have tiny bit of active compounds, say at 5-10% ratio to the CBD to be effective. Synergistic effect or something.
Lots of seniors with underlying on-going physical ailments love it (and the active variety of oil too). These are people that would never drink to excess or enjoy drugs otherwise, all their lives. That suggests that there is something to it, not just addictive reasons.
I think it's unregulated, so the quality is wildly diverse. I'm not willing to dismiss it as snake oil yet...although I wouldn't actually try it unless I knew a lot about the source of whatever I was trying.
-
Has anyone seen a useful effect of CBD oil? A friend gave me a little bottle. I couldn't see any benefits. It seems to everywhere though.
A friend has been a whitewater guide on the central Idaho Rivers - Middle Fork, Salmon, etc - for more than 55 years. It can snow any night of the year up there, and the water is never warm; early/late seasons, slushy with ice. His hands hurt every morning as he rolls out of the sleeping bag. He rubs CBD oil into them, and claims it helps them feel enough better for another painless day of rowing. Seems like small potatoes to build a billion-dollar industry on, but then he is not a stoner and not given to gabble - if he says it works, I'll try it.
-
Has anyone seen a useful effect of CBD oil? A friend gave me a little bottle. I couldn't see any benefits. It seems to everywhere though.
A friend has been a whitewater guide on the central Idaho Rivers - Middle Fork, Salmon, etc - for more than 55 years. It can snow any night of the year up there, and the water is never warm; early/late seasons, slushy with ice. His hands hurt every morning as he rolls out of the sleeping bag. He rubs CBD oil into them, and claims it helps them feel enough better for another painless day of rowing. Seems like small potatoes to build a billion-dollar industry on, but then he is not a stoner and not given to gabble - if he says it works, I'll try it.
A layer of any kind of oil at all would keep your hands dryer and warmer and thus less painful, though. In his application the benefit may be from the "oil" part rather than the "CBD" part.
-
Sounds like a good application for wet suits or dry suits or whatever the equipment - with gloves. I don't dive so I don't know the equipment.
-
Sounds like a good application for wet suits or dry suits or whatever the equipment - with gloves. I don't dive so I don't know the equipment.
Diving suits probably aren't the best for rafting. But there are sailing wetsuits and drysuits that might suffice for this.
-
I gave my now deceased kitty Sibley CBD treats in an attempt to help her arthritis. There's a lot of woo out there about CBD, but the cat was more comfortable and moved better as evidenced by her behavior and activity level. And it was a pretty clear improvement over about a week's time once I started her on it. My conclusion was that it seemed to reduce inflammation related to the arthritis, thus reducing discomfort. More than that, we need quality research and standardized products to really understand and use it effectively. I bought the treats from a website that was as legit seeming as I could find.
-
Invited to a Pampered Chef event... uh thanks, but no thanks.
-
Has anyone seen a useful effect of CBD oil? A friend gave me a little bottle. I couldn't see any benefits. It seems to everywhere though.
Former MN Governor Jesse Ventura said that someone he knows used it to stop seizures. It was a prescription, not OTC.
Someone I know was taking it for anxiety and didn't think there was a difference, but her kids said she seemed like she was feeling better.
No personal knowledge.
-
Anxiety was our use, no change. Placebo effect?
-
Just think - there are likely thousands of "I'm-my-own-boss" Team Leaders who are texting, messaging, and emailing their "team members" to set ridiculous New Year's goals so they can reach "Diamond-Sapphire-Exclusive-Winner-Level" status this year. When in reality, most of those "team members" will buy too much inventory out of their own pocket and will spend all their free time souring family relationships & friendships just so they can get a small check from a corporation that could care less about them - a check that doesn't cover their actual expenses. These goals will involve how many ridiculous social media messages to post and how many people they used to know in 3rd grade to reach out to. And at some point, these team members (#myownboss) will wonder why they can't reach the success of the people they trot out as success stories - and they don't realize that those people got in at the beginning and are making their money on the backs of the newbies, not from being a great salesperson.
When manipulated, hope can be a dangerous thing.
-
I’ve actually worked for a former executive of one of these MLMs. I was very hesitant to accept the role because of her background but everything about the company I was joining made it worth it. It was very fascinating seeing into her mind. She actually was just fine in her role running the business, but every chance she got she tried to suggest “direct selling” as a way to help grow sales. Luckily, nobody else in the room took her serious on that topic. She legitimately believed in that business model and has went on to work for a few different MLMs since.
-
I worked in the corporate environment for a large multi-national MLM for about 5 years. They treat their employees very, very well and most folks just want to get a job done.
That being said, you see the cracks if you look. I couldn't deal with the business model anymore so I finally left. Everyone I know who has left has said the same thing, there is this burden that you don't even realize is weighing on you and it suddenly lifts as soon as you find a different job.
-
Just think - there are likely thousands of "I'm-my-own-boss" Team Leaders who are texting, messaging, and emailing their "team members" to set ridiculous New Year's goals
The large purchase of inventory is proof that you're "serious," and will get you the pat on the back, and a coffee date with the high pubah who will also pat your back.
-
Not unlike political donors... We accept your donation, smile and take pictures with you, build you up - and move on to the next VIP donor.
-
Ok, yikes, I wasn’t sure about posting this, but I think some input from you all might be useful. Earlier this year, a work colleague sent me an email about something crypto currency related, it looked like an email that was sent out to a large list of contacts and I thought his email had probably just been hacked and had sent out some spam without his knowledge, so I didn’t even click on it. Well, a few months later he mentioned he wanted to get together and talk about investing in a “gold-backed crypto currency”. I have no interest in buying into anything like that. Was with our boss at the time and we both listened a bit, but shrugged it off. Well, recently he mentioned it again and wants to get together to talk more about it, so out of morbid curiosity I went back to the original email to see what I could learn about it. Oh man, it’s so much worse than just another pointless coin, it’s basically from a company that runs a terrible MLM scheme selling tiny gold bars to people at an absurd markup and there’s a huge pyramid based referral program to sign up other distributors at huge upfront cost. I know the rational move is to politely decline a meeting because I’m not interested, but I can’t help but wonder if I can meet with him and ask questions in a way that helps him re-evaluate his investment. (btw, he has 5 figures in these coins atm, so the stakes for him are pretty high).
An update from just over a year later, I did mention my concerns to this co-worker, but he mostly shrugged it off and didn’t seem interested in my input, only signing me up to buy in. He hasn’t brought up anything about this since, and from what I can tell of the price of this coin in the last year has completely collapsed - his $35k portfolio at the time of original post is now worth around $250 if he left everything as-is. Hopefully he hasn’t put anything more in.
-
Ok, yikes, I wasn’t sure about posting this, but I think some input from you all might be useful. Earlier this year, a work colleague sent me an email about something crypto currency related, it looked like an email that was sent out to a large list of contacts and I thought his email had probably just been hacked and had sent out some spam without his knowledge, so I didn’t even click on it. Well, a few months later he mentioned he wanted to get together and talk about investing in a “gold-backed crypto currency”. I have no interest in buying into anything like that. Was with our boss at the time and we both listened a bit, but shrugged it off. Well, recently he mentioned it again and wants to get together to talk more about it, so out of morbid curiosity I went back to the original email to see what I could learn about it. Oh man, it’s so much worse than just another pointless coin, it’s basically from a company that runs a terrible MLM scheme selling tiny gold bars to people at an absurd markup and there’s a huge pyramid based referral program to sign up other distributors at huge upfront cost. I know the rational move is to politely decline a meeting because I’m not interested, but I can’t help but wonder if I can meet with him and ask questions in a way that helps him re-evaluate his investment. (btw, he has 5 figures in these coins atm, so the stakes for him are pretty high).
An update from just over a year later, I did mention my concerns to this co-worker, but he mostly shrugged it off and didn’t seem interested in my input, only signing me up to buy in. He hasn’t brought up anything about this since, and from what I can tell of the price of this coin in the last year has completely collapsed - his $35k portfolio at the time of original post is now worth around $250 if he left everything as-is. Hopefully he hasn’t put anything more in.
Very sad, but it happens.
A good friend of mine spent about 4 years researching Bitcoin and others before buying in. At first he jumped on Ripple (XRP) and then backed out when he saw something the average person buying it couldn't see. Something about the founder selling off his coins over the course of a year - lots of them. He took a small loss, and jumped into Bitcoin, which is doing okay for him.
He said you have to be able to stomach 30% daily swings, and also have a large distrust of currency stability.
-
Well, lost a decade-long friendship (dude was in our wedding, we went on the cruise they decided on for theirs - I really hope this conflict doesn't completely kill our wives friendship) because as it turns out, he went and joined a fucking crypto-MLM scheme. I doubt he realizes what is happening yet, but when I was hearing about these things in 2018, he was neck deep trying to make an expensive gaming hobby profitable via what I would characterize as the unofficial "Twitch Amazon Prime Subscription" MLM scheme that was all the rage back then.
Basically out of nowhere this guy wants to talk about "stocks". Fun fact - reddit calls crypto currency and literally anything that you can trade easily "stocks". Original plan was to be day-trading crypto, appears that hasn't worked out and switched to mining (notably chose a mining pool that features a network-marketing referral structure . . .). Sudden change in language - guy is pretty much gone to this particular MLM cult now.
-
We may have inadvertently given business to an MLM.
My wife and I have both been wanting to get into better shape, and one of my wife's best friends has lost a lot of weight in the last year using a program called Beach Body. She let us use her login for the app, so that we can get the exercise videos for free. She also is letting us get pre-workout and recovery at her cost.
I had no idea that it was an MLM until another of my wife's co-workers offered her a deal on the program (not knowing that we're using the program for a lot cheaper through the friend). Then I started to do a little bit of research into the program and discovered that it's an MLM that's been around a while.
Granted, the friend is clearly not trying to make money off of us or recruit my wife to start selling the product. The product (app with different workouts & pre/post-workout) have given us good results, but I feel a bit uneasy about giving any money to an MLM. I think that once I finish the current batch of pre-workout and recovery, that I'll just get stuff at Wal-Mart instead.
-
@DadJokes Beach Body is the least MLM-y of the MLM's, though it's true that it is one. The MLM side is mostly the supplements and drinks and such. The workouts truly are good workouts, and I think they're available to purchase directly through the website rather than needing to sign up through someone "selling" them. But I have had some friends and neighbors join, become "coaches", and start doing all the social media posts on how great it is, motivational/inspirational quotes on pretty pictures, workout pics, etc. The enthusiasm usually lasts less than 18 months. After that they may still participate, but they stop posting about it so much.
-
We may have inadvertently given business to an MLM.
My wife and I have both been wanting to get into better shape, and one of my wife's best friends has lost a lot of weight in the last year using a program called Beach Body. She let us use her login for the app, so that we can get the exercise videos for free. She also is letting us get pre-workout and recovery at her cost.
I had no idea that it was an MLM until another of my wife's co-workers offered her a deal on the program (not knowing that we're using the program for a lot cheaper through the friend). Then I started to do a little bit of research into the program and discovered that it's an MLM that's been around a while.
Granted, the friend is clearly not trying to make money off of us or recruit my wife to start selling the product. The product (app with different workouts & pre/post-workout) have given us good results, but I feel a bit uneasy about giving any money to an MLM. I think that once I finish the current batch of pre-workout and recovery, that I'll just get stuff at Wal-Mart instead.
Beachbody is surely an MLM. I think it's gotten a little LESS MLM-y since Beachbody on Demand, though.
I started using the workouts (back when they were DVDs), and became a "discount coach" for the discounts. I really liked Shakeology. But, it's expensive and then it started disagreeing with my digestion. Then they came out with the streaming service.
After the streaming service ($99/year), there was no reason to be a coach anymore. I wasn't using any of the products (pre workout and recovery). I love trying all the workouts - DH and I have done significant portions (if not the full program) of P90X, LIIFT4, 21 day fix, Hammer and Chisel, PiYo, and MBF. One way that BB makes money is to charge for "early access" for new workouts. So, a new program comes out, and you pay for it. But in 6 months it's free. Do you need to pay for it to get it 6 months early? Sometimes, the answer is yes if it really appeals to you. Otherwise, it's almost exclusively COACHES who are paying for it, and encouraging others to sign up with them, and in the meantime selling them preworkout or recovery or whatever.
I can't imagine that it's much of a money maker anymore. I used to know quite a lot of coaches (I do live in So Cal), and several of them made actual money at it, but a LOT of the money comes from building a "downline". With the release of BOD, people just don't need to have a coach to get access to the workouts. I imagine most people just do what we do. At least, I haven't seen many posts of earning "free" vacations lately, and not just because of COVID.
I mean, I can't even bring myself to buy their gear. I've done some of the workouts from 80 day obsession, which requires sliders. You know, the sliders, if I buy them through BB and a friend, were close to $30. On Amazon? $11. Sorry.
-
I’ve been invited via FAceboom THREE times to some make-up party being thrown by hubs’s cousin. She posted a picture of her face all made up complete with exclamations of how much she loves this stuff; kinda looked like a “painted lady” to me. Whatever, but stop shoving it down my throat.
Did I mention that I haven’t worn makeup for at least 5 years, and I don’t plan to start now?
-
I've just found out about a new one - Experior Financial. Apparently they were founded in Canada and have now expanded to 18 states. Their agents sell insurance and other investments through network marketing. Why is it that every MLM goes out of their way to say that they are not an MLM, but then operates exactly like an MLM?
A friend of mine who is already into beachbody is thinking of getting into this one too, and I listened to the presentation with her in the hopes that if I knew more about it, I could convince her not to join. There are registration fees, exam fees, insurance fees, and monthly fees to use the program that add up to at least 90 bucks a month, and you only get paid based on commission from sales and the sales of the agents operating on your team. But you are a "business owner".
I feel like these companies prey on people who are already bad with money, and make their financial situation even worse. Most people don't need the kind of insurance they are selling, but it appeals to their worries and fears. The investments have really high fees and trailing commissions, so again, not a good deal for the person investing. They preach "financial education and empowerment" but they're really offering indebted people very expensive products and investments when they could be teaching them about index funds, but obviously that wouldn't make them any money.
Anyway, hope I can convince my friend it's a bad idea to join.. wish me luck. I'm all for financial education, but not like this bullshit.
-
Good luck!
-
@DadJokes... But I have had some friends and neighbors join, become "coaches", and start doing all the social media posts on how great it is, motivational/inspirational quotes on pretty pictures, workout pics, etc....
One of my closest friends became a "coach" for a different wellness MLM a few months ago. Not beach body - and I actually don't know the name of it because although she posts about it ALL.THE.TIME on social media, she never says what it is. Just inspirational posts about her success & her clients' successes, and IF YOU ARE READY TO CHANGE, MESSAGE ME! Typically when someone I know starts doing this, I unfriend them or at least hide them from my feed. But this is a good friend. I'm at a loss.
-
I have an 'acquaintance' who recently started a monetized fishing channel on Youtube. He goes out often and it's an enviable position to be in. Well, it turns out his wife is a big time MLMer selling essential oils - I thought I saw that she was diamond level or something like that so she's bringing home the $$$. I think most of her clientele/returning customer base began from the social network they have primarily through their church, so she must have milked that cow hard and her "essential oil consultancy" spread like wildfire from there (good luck to any of her close friends who would dare think to enter the "business" and step on her toes lol). Using similar tactics as his wife (but advertising "like & subscribe" on Facebook and in a big FB fishing group) the guy is now gaining tons of traction with his channel and will probably be making a fair amount of money off it soon enough. And no, I'm not going to link his Youtube channel...because I'm going to start one myself hopefully and don't want to shoot myself in the foot LOL - click like and subscribe when I start it!jk
Anyway, it must be nice having tons of free time to spin up a monetized Youtube channel for your hobby because your wife made out well for you, exploiting all your friends. To be clear, I'm not saying or implying that starting a Youtube channel is like MLM. There's a lot of work that needs to go into it for it (editing videos) to be a success. But it's one of those things that not many people can successfully do as a side-hustle/side-gig. On top of that, some people resort to using shameless tactics to quickly increase their viewership (like relentlessly plugging the channel ALL OVER Facebook and elsewhere - not just in posts but commenting in threads, and self-promoting aggressively). It's the aggressive self-promotion that I don't like... it's my opinion that if you start a channel, do it because you love it AND allow the growth to be organic - plug where you have the opportunity but don't get greedy/obsessive/aggressive about doing so.
Years ago, I had a financial planner uncomfortably pressure me, in person after an initial consulting session, to cough up a list of potential clients to refer for her to cold-call (I was young, stupid and didn't know any better and caved in...) - this felt MLMish as well.
My wife told me about this Korean lady who would bother her parents at their restaurant and sell them crap they didn't need (some crappy under sink water filtration unit, a super overpriced bidet, etc). Forgot the name of this company but she told me every time the lady would step foot in the restaurant she would stare her down and make the lady feel super uncomfortable. The visits became less and less, at least while my wife was there. I think my in-laws have halted most of that by now since selling the restaurant but that was another example of old school MLM they were fooled by.
I have very little respect for these kinds of people.
We have other friends who do MLM on a smaller scale with books (forget the name) and Norwex but they don't push hard enough to become platinum diamond sellers - I'm fine with them because I can tell they got into it and realized how shady it felt to essentially exploit your friends selling them nominal products for tons of money, so they don't really push anything on anyone.
-
Most you tubers and MLMers don't earn as much as they want you to believe. That's part of the schtick - pretending to be successful.
If they really were successful they'd quit the job once they raked in the cash.
The phoney low-tier Mercedes that the MLM crowd use just fortify my belief that they are struggling, income-wise. No one with a genuinely high income is going to brag about leasing a CLA Mercedes.
-
@DadJokes... But I have had some friends and neighbors join, become "coaches", and start doing all the social media posts on how great it is, motivational/inspirational quotes on pretty pictures, workout pics, etc....
One of my closest friends became a "coach" for a different wellness MLM a few months ago. Not beach body - and I actually don't know the name of it because although she posts about it ALL.THE.TIME on social media, she never says what it is. Just inspirational posts about her success & her clients' successes, and IF YOU ARE READY TO CHANGE, MESSAGE ME! Typically when someone I know starts doing this, I unfriend them or at least hide them from my feed. But this is a good friend. I'm at a loss.
I've got an in-law doing this. She's hawking Optavia (the old Medifast) and her before & after pic's do look stunning. They keep the name of the program off of social media, referring to it as "Health & Wellness" but it's been easy to deduce what they were selling.
-
When I was 20 I'd been in Amway for a year. My VW was wearing out and my mom asked if I wanted to take over the $200 payment on her new-ish Jeep Liberty.
Like a good little MLM-er I consulted with my upline rather than my dad who was a CPA or my mom who owned a real business for about 15 years. My upline and I talked about how it would be a $200 payment, and I just grossed $200 by buying extra stuff to reach the first cross-the-stage-and-get-a-pin milestone.
Like a wise sage he asked, "Do you think you'll be doing that again?"
I knew it'd likely be another year before I could sustain this level.
That's how bad of a business it is. It's questionable whether or not you'll gross $200.
-
Has anyone noticed that a lot of life insurance companies are starting to sound more and more like MLMs every damn day. An acquaintance from high school has been selling it for awhile now. Lately her online posts are less "let me sell you a policy" and more "come work for me."
-
The YouTubers I know who have been successful with it usually use their YouTube videos as advertising to sell other products they produce. I know some writers and artists who do that and do well. Just making YouTube videos for advertising money doesn't usually work out all that great.
The MLM people I know who have done well with MLM usually use that as a side business for doing something like personal training for people. They have clients for personal training and they sell them the "magic powders" as part of their coaching. Other than doing that, I've seen nobody make any money with MLM, but they do waste a lot of time with it.
-
Has anyone noticed that a lot of life insurance companies are starting to sound more and more like MLMs every damn day. An acquaintance from high school has been selling it for awhile now. Lately her online posts are less "let me sell you a policy" and more "come work for me."
Primerica per chance? It's a full on pyramid scheme with no-one making real money.
An uncle took my parents for all their investment money decades ago that spooked them from the stock market. Took years to get them moved to Vanguard funds at Questrade instead.
Needless to say that side of the family ruined many relationships to barely make their house payments and lease a Mercedes to seem successful. The indoctrination runs deep though, they've signed their grandkids up in their downlines.
PS they think they're selling legit insurance and mutual funds, the insurance is overpriced by double other companies and the mutual funds have MER's above 5% (one was 7.5%). But fat commissions and deferred sales charges to lock you in for the max legal periods (they cycle these often enough to trigger charges and more commissions as well). It's all but criminal.
-
Has anyone noticed that a lot of life insurance companies are starting to sound more and more like MLMs every damn day. An acquaintance from high school has been selling it for awhile now. Lately her online posts are less "let me sell you a policy" and more "come work for me."
Primerica per chance? It's a full on pyramid scheme with no-one making real money.
An uncle took my parents for all their investment money decades ago that spooked them from the stock market. Took years to get them moved to Vanguard funds at Questrade instead.
Needless to say that side of the family ruined many relationships to barely make their house payments and lease a Mercedes to seem successful. The indoctrination runs deep though, they've signed their grandkids up in their downlines.
PS they think they're selling legit insurance and mutual funds, the insurance is overpriced by double other companies and the mutual funds have MER's above 5% (one was 7.5%). But fat commissions and deferred sales charges to lock you in for the max legal periods (they cycle these often enough to trigger charges and more commissions as well). It's all but criminal.
This doesn't seem to be Primerica. At least not by that name. I think it's called Family First.
-
Has anyone noticed that a lot of life insurance companies are starting to sound more and more like MLMs every damn day. An acquaintance from high school has been selling it for awhile now. Lately her online posts are less "let me sell you a policy" and more "come work for me."
Primerica per chance? It's a full on pyramid scheme with no-one making real money.
An uncle took my parents for all their investment money decades ago that spooked them from the stock market. Took years to get them moved to Vanguard funds at Questrade instead.
Needless to say that side of the family ruined many relationships to barely make their house payments and lease a Mercedes to seem successful. The indoctrination runs deep though, they've signed their grandkids up in their downlines.
PS they think they're selling legit insurance and mutual funds, the insurance is overpriced by double other companies and the mutual funds have MER's above 5% (one was 7.5%). But fat commissions and deferred sales charges to lock you in for the max legal periods (they cycle these often enough to trigger charges and more commissions as well). It's all but criminal.
This doesn't seem to be Primerica. At least not by that name. I think it's called Family First.
From their webpage, “Agency Overrides
If you decide to start an Agency with FFL you would receive an override commission on any agent that you hire when they sell a policy. The override commission is equal to the difference of commission levels between you and your agents. The average override commission is 15% of the Annual Premium.”
Smells like an MLM.
-
I had an interview with a German company that operates in a number of EU countries to work as a financial advisor. I have experience with funds (risk / finance background) so thought it may be worth trying.
The first stage was a group presentation with a video showing young workers in an expensive office. They they told us that we would be provided with client list for our region and the company would support us to grow our local office.
There were some alarm bells (avoided any info on how we would be paid) but the website was professional and looked legitimate. Most information online like Glassdoor is very positive.
In the second interview they told be that I would self employed with no guarantee of income. No referrals from corporate and my network of friends, family and acquaintances would be my starting point. No fancy offices or macbook pro either.
They don't charge the client a fee so presumably they are commission-based and possibly trail comission (if it's still allowed). They changed the subject when I asked.
The way to make decent money would be to become a local manager responsible for a team, then a regional manager and finally national manger. I'd earn a percentage based on what my 'team' brings in.
At the end of the interview I was offered the job to start as a trainee on Monday. Another red flag, so I did a bit deeper research over the weekend showed similar stories to mine.
I turned them down. Close call.
-
Ok, yikes, I wasn’t sure about posting this, but I think some input from you all might be useful. Earlier this year, a work colleague sent me an email about something crypto currency related, it looked like an email that was sent out to a large list of contacts and I thought his email had probably just been hacked and had sent out some spam without his knowledge, so I didn’t even click on it. Well, a few months later he mentioned he wanted to get together and talk about investing in a “gold-backed crypto currency”. I have no interest in buying into anything like that. Was with our boss at the time and we both listened a bit, but shrugged it off. Well, recently he mentioned it again and wants to get together to talk more about it, so out of morbid curiosity I went back to the original email to see what I could learn about it. Oh man, it’s so much worse than just another pointless coin, it’s basically from a company that runs a terrible MLM scheme selling tiny gold bars to people at an absurd markup and there’s a huge pyramid based referral program to sign up other distributors at huge upfront cost. I know the rational move is to politely decline a meeting because I’m not interested, but I can’t help but wonder if I can meet with him and ask questions in a way that helps him re-evaluate his investment. (btw, he has 5 figures in these coins atm, so the stakes for him are pretty high).
An update from just over a year later, I did mention my concerns to this co-worker, but he mostly shrugged it off and didn’t seem interested in my input, only signing me up to buy in. He hasn’t brought up anything about this since, and from what I can tell of the price of this coin in the last year has completely collapsed - his $35k portfolio at the time of original post is now worth around $250 if he left everything as-is. Hopefully he hasn’t put anything more in.
Ok, well another update, I noticed this same person now has stickers on their car for some kind of expensive therapy machine MLM now. :(
Freaking stop the madness already.
-
I don't seem to have so many friends shilling MLMs on my Facebook feed, now that Lularoe has been disgraced. I think the 31 Bags and Usborne Books reps finally gave up. A couple are still doggedly selling Colorstreet (some form of press-on nails).
-
The dumpster fire that is Lularoe just refuses to die. But, the good thing is that have a new documentary about it to watch soon (September 10th, on Amazon Prime). https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=nJgkwIHp1pc&feature=youtu.be
-
I'm in a facebook group for a specific dog breed. periodically, we get posts about "this is the best breed ever and I love mine so much. At first I wasn't sure about my relationship with DogName, but after getting her some great training though [website], we developed an amazing bond and I can't imagine ever owning another breed. " The language is usually a bit off and it ends in a question about wondering if anyone else has considered using that training.
It just smelled funny the first time I saw it and google of the company turne dup that it is an MLM (though like so many MLMs, they do a decent job of keeping that info out of the early search results). And a reverse image search of the dog they claimed was there showed it was from a Purina ad.
I reported and it was deleted. Today, there was another nearly identical post. Different photo (with more confusing search results, but still clearly an image that has appeared around the internet.) I think all MLM posts contain an element of insincerity, but this is outright lying. Gross!
-
an acquaintance told me that in his "product" training, there was a half day devoted to social media posting and gaming it to increase sales, how to "fix" complaints and reports, how to make variations of posts to get around filters.
dipshit was selling It Works nonsense. their green goblins took over downtown Tampa for a week, and didn't follow traffic laws, causing havoc. Was in the news, cops were tired of their crap.
told my BIL to stop giving our address to people who we don't know, and don't want to know, who wants to sell us shit we don't need. I told this dipshit in my house, when he offered us a drinks can that wasn't labeled with ingredients but was meant for weight loss and energy boosting, that I prefer to eat healthy and workout 4x/week, and walks most nights after dinner, instead of drinking this abomination. We hosted him the first time for a couple of nights as a courtesy; second time, politely texted him to stay away from us.
Fuck It Works! Fuck Amway! Fuck Quixstar! Fuck all MLMs! I've lost family and friendships over these toxic money-grabbing down-line generating ponzi fuckers.
-
Ok, yikes, I wasn’t sure about posting this, but I think some input from you all might be useful. Earlier this year, a work colleague sent me an email about something crypto currency related, it looked like an email that was sent out to a large list of contacts and I thought his email had probably just been hacked and had sent out some spam without his knowledge, so I didn’t even click on it. Well, a few months later he mentioned he wanted to get together and talk about investing in a “gold-backed crypto currency”. I have no interest in buying into anything like that. Was with our boss at the time and we both listened a bit, but shrugged it off. Well, recently he mentioned it again and wants to get together to talk more about it, so out of morbid curiosity I went back to the original email to see what I could learn about it. Oh man, it’s so much worse than just another pointless coin, it’s basically from a company that runs a terrible MLM scheme selling tiny gold bars to people at an absurd markup and there’s a huge pyramid based referral program to sign up other distributors at huge upfront cost. I know the rational move is to politely decline a meeting because I’m not interested, but I can’t help but wonder if I can meet with him and ask questions in a way that helps him re-evaluate his investment. (btw, he has 5 figures in these coins atm, so the stakes for him are pretty high).
An update from just over a year later, I did mention my concerns to this co-worker, but he mostly shrugged it off and didn’t seem interested in my input, only signing me up to buy in. He hasn’t brought up anything about this since, and from what I can tell of the price of this coin in the last year has completely collapsed - his $35k portfolio at the time of original post is now worth around $250 if he left everything as-is. Hopefully he hasn’t put anything more in.
Ok, well another update, I noticed this same person now has stickers on their car for some kind of expensive therapy machine MLM now. :(
Freaking stop the madness already.
Well, when he approaches you in the future about buying into his "therapy machine" - you can ask if it helps with the mental anquish of losing $34,000+
-
Well, when he approaches you in the future about buying into his "therapy machine" - you can ask if it helps with the mental anquish of losing $34,000+
That would be intentionally hurtful and rubbing in the loss. Let us know what he said though, JAYSLOL...
-
Well, when he approaches you in the future about buying into his "therapy machine" - you can ask if it helps with the mental anquish of losing $34,000+
That would be intentionally hurtful and rubbing in the loss. Let us know what he said though, JAYSLOL...
He hasn’t brought up the new MLM, I only noticed the sticker, and much like the day-trading/gambling folks that love to post about their wins, but stay silent on the losses, he hasn’t brought up the old crypto scam for going on 2 years now and I haven’t asked since I already know the answer anyway. If he starts to push the new MLM though, I’ll play dumb and ask how his crypto is going.
-
Clearly this is original content from the poster:
"Happy Business Wednesday! My name is ------ and I’ve been with Monat for a little over two years. For those that don’t know, we are a naturally based, clinically backed, and scientifically proven that specialize in hair, skin & wellness products.
Business side, I’ve managed to grow all over the US, UK, and Ireland. We’ve recently expanded to Spain & Lithuania and are working to become global. This business has let me quit my full time corporate job, matched my income by 4x, save up for students loans, & have the financial freedom to live my life unapologetically.
I work from my phone/wifi so it’s extremely convenient come PCS season & living the military life.
If you want more info, please let me know & send me a message! 🦋
Feel free to check out my IG: @-------
*if Network Marketing isn’t for you, that’s okay! I do ask that you respect my post and if it does not interest you, then don’t comment. Thank you!"
Where do I begin? The FDA called bullshit on her first claim, and the company had to pay out for having a contaminated factory and getting people sick and injured. This poster got here a year ago and the first thing she said was "I'm new and I need friends. Send me your Instagram accounts." She's already on Facebook with them, why IG if not to push her product? Earlier this year she posted about the free trip. She's hitting everything on the bingo card except for the free car. They've been in the military for just a couple years and if she's taking credit for expanding into other countries it's because she's got other military spouses to peddle this stuff for her. Also calling bullshit on the "corporate job" that according to her in another post she was living paycheck to paycheck.
-
*if Network Marketing isn’t for you, that’s okay! I do ask that you respect my post and if it does not interest you, then don’t comment. Thank you!"
So she can't handle having potential victims running away be someone exposing her MLM scheme for what it is?
-
*if Network Marketing isn’t for you, that’s okay! I do ask that you respect my post and if it does not interest you, then don’t comment. Thank you!"
So she can't handle having potential victims running away be someone exposing her MLM scheme for what it is?
Pretty much. It's fine to use false promises to scam someone desperate out of money they probably can't afford to lose, but it's SO MEAN to call them out on the scam.
-
I take that to mean that friends have been trying to rescue her from the MLM and she’s telling them to leave her alone.
-
I take that to mean that friends have been trying to rescue her from the MLM and she’s telling them to leave her alone.
Her targets appear to be mostly other young military wives that she can hook. Don't want anyone scaring them off...
In a different post she mentioned wanting to hold a meeting so she could talk about the business and "clear up myths and misperceptions about the company" or words to that effect.
-
My in-laws fall into the category of "gullible quick buck chasers."
SIL #1 has had 25 different jobs by age 30, most recently doing door dash.
BIL #1 has been doing a sports podcast with his buddies for 6 hours / week for the past 4 years with zero viewership growth.
BIL #2 is trying to make money by streaming his videogames on twitch.
SIL #2 has been doing the juice plus MLM and is now trying to sell this hydroponic tower garden thing that lets you grow your own vegetables for $500 - $1,000 up front cost. I joke about it every time I go to aldi and buy hydroponically-grown lettuce for $3.
Predictably, none of them have any investment accounts and very little savings.
I shiver about the opportunity costs of simply getting a basic part time job with benefits, or going for higher education if they have all of these extra hours available in their lives. Sigh.
-
My in-laws fall into the category of "gullible quick buck chasers."
SIL #1 has had 25 different jobs by age 30, most recently doing door dash.
BIL #1 has been doing a sports podcast with his buddies for 6 hours / week for the past 4 years with zero viewership growth.
BIL #2 is trying to make money by streaming his videogames on twitch.
SIL #2 has been doing the juice plus MLM and is now trying to sell this hydroponic tower garden thing that lets you grow your own vegetables for $500 - $1,000 up front cost. I joke about it every time I go to aldi and buy hydroponically-grown lettuce for $3.
Predictably, none of them have any investment accounts and very little savings.
I shiver about the opportunity costs of simply getting a basic part time job with benefits, or going for higher education if they have all of these extra hours available in their lives. Sigh.
Are they the same company? Because there's a dude here who does the same thing. Juice + and the tower garden.
-
My in-laws fall into the category of "gullible quick buck chasers."
SIL #1 has had 25 different jobs by age 30, most recently doing door dash.
BIL #1 has been doing a sports podcast with his buddies for 6 hours / week for the past 4 years with zero viewership growth.
BIL #2 is trying to make money by streaming his videogames on twitch.
SIL #2 has been doing the juice plus MLM and is now trying to sell this hydroponic tower garden thing that lets you grow your own vegetables for $500 - $1,000 up front cost. I joke about it every time I go to aldi and buy hydroponically-grown lettuce for $3.
Predictably, none of them have any investment accounts and very little savings.
I shiver about the opportunity costs of simply getting a basic part time job with benefits, or going for higher education if they have all of these extra hours available in their lives. Sigh.
Are they the same company? Because there's a dude here who does the same thing. Juice + and the tower garden.
A quick google search indicates it is the same company but can't confirm.
-
My in-laws fall into the category of "gullible quick buck chasers."
SIL #1 has had 25 different jobs by age 30, most recently doing door dash.
BIL #1 has been doing a sports podcast with his buddies for 6 hours / week for the past 4 years with zero viewership growth.
BIL #2 is trying to make money by streaming his videogames on twitch.
SIL #2 has been doing the juice plus MLM and is now trying to sell this hydroponic tower garden thing that lets you grow your own vegetables for $500 - $1,000 up front cost. I joke about it every time I go to aldi and buy hydroponically-grown lettuce for $3.
Predictably, none of them have any investment accounts and very little savings.
I shiver about the opportunity costs of simply getting a basic part time job with benefits, or going for higher education if they have all of these extra hours available in their lives. Sigh.
Are they the same company? Because there's a dude here who does the same thing. Juice + and the tower garden.
A quick google search indicates it is the same company but can't confirm.
Can confirm, a girl from my high school hawks both and approached me awhile back about how she retired at 28 years old (though she seems to present at trade shows and has apparently went back to work now... so I think she'd built enough passive income through her downline that if it kept going she'd be good... but it did not.
-
My husband and I are halfway through the 4-part documentary "LulaRich" on Amazon Prime. The LuLaRoe
cult MLM was even nuttier than I suspected from all of the frenzied posts on my Facebook feed a few years ago.
-
My husband and I are halfway through the 4-part documentary "LulaRich" on Amazon Prime. The LuLaRoe cult MLM was even nuttier than I suspected from all of the frenzied posts on my Facebook feed a few years ago.
I just finished it last night. It really is crazy and I was actually surprised about how young of a company they are. I knew their growth really exploded a few years ago, but I guess I figured the company had been around for awhile first. Apparently not.
-
Just started watching the Lularoe doc on Amazon. In the first episode she talks about her earliest clothing parties where she was reselling designer dresses that she purchased from a swap meet at a fraction of the normal retail price. Um, so were they counterfeit or stolen? I guess that wasn't a concern, which says a lot about the mindset of the founders.
-
Just started watching the Lularoe doc on Amazon. In the first episode she talks about her earliest clothing parties where she was reselling designer dresses that she purchased from a swap meet at a fraction of the normal retail price. Um, so were they counterfeit or stolen? I guess that wasn't a concern, which says a lot about the mindset of the founders.
We wondered the same thing! At that quantity, I'd guess counterfeit. Cheap knockoffs are everywhere.
-
My husband and I are halfway through the 4-part documentary "LulaRich" on Amazon Prime. The LuLaRoe cult MLM was even nuttier than I suspected from all of the frenzied posts on my Facebook feed a few years ago.
i binged that show coupla days ago.
I thought early on when she bought the children’s dresses selling at $10 that those are not the same ones selling for $80, but now I’m not so sure. I remember going into one of those La Di Da boutique shops where grandmas shop for their tiny tot grandchildren, and looking over the merchandise, and those togs didn’t seem all that special to me as far as workmanship.They are frilly “dress up “garments heavy on velvet, diamond and peael buttons, and stiff organza. They are made to look luxe but are not.
Granted, in Europe when you buy European made children’s clothes those are super high end with good quality fabrics and good workmanship. I’m not sure those are made anymore, those baby Burberry pieces and etc.
I enjoyed the LulaRoe show, I knew what to expect, having seen other expose shows.
One of the sister wives from Kody Brown’s tribe is still hawking LuLaRoe.
-
I was fascinated by the Lularoe documentary LuLaRich. up until the last 30 seconds of the first episode, I thought it sounded like heaven! (I would never do it, MLM isn't for me, but the pitch was very good and effective).
Boy, I really feel for the people who fall into those traps. It seemed as if everything they said and did was meant to control people in one way or another.
Also, those designs are hideous and they always were. But placing limits on availability was a genius method for starting a frenzy. I guess the lesson should be that any time there's something trendy, stay away. Good thing for me that everything I like is out of date and out of style!
-
I recently started working with one of my pledge bro's old teachers, Donald and his wife Sparkles [names changed for privacy]. They created a huge ongoing income that surpassed both their full-time jobs in their 30s. He just said they’re looking for a good candidate to work with. I really respect you and figured it wouldn't hurt to reach out even though we haven't talked in a while. Would be outside of what you got going on full time. Can’t promise anything but wanted to see if you were looking for other income sources?
My relative just messaged me this. First, he had me turned off at pledge bro. But it is not even his pledge bro who is in the MLM, it is one of their old teachers. I'm dying. I love how it ends with "can't promise anything but wanted to see if you were looking for other income sources". Like, I have a postgraduate degree with a fine paying job for years and this guy has the galls to message me about my income sources.
-
I recently started working with one of my pledge bro's old teachers, Donald and his wife Sparkles [names changed for privacy]. They created a huge ongoing income that surpassed both their full-time jobs in their 30s. He just said they’re looking for a good candidate to work with. I really respect you and figured it wouldn't hurt to reach out even though we haven't talked in a while. Would be outside of what you got going on full time. Can’t promise anything but wanted to see if you were looking for other income sources?
My relative just messaged me this. First, he had me turned off at pledge bro. But it is not even his pledge bro who is in the MLM, it is one of their old teachers. I'm dying. I love how it ends with "can't promise anything but wanted to see if you were looking for other income sources". Like, I have a postgraduate degree with a fine paying job for years and this guy has the galls to message me about my income sources.
priceless
-
One of my acquaintances apparently has stopped selling 31 Bags. She’s started talking up Epicure on her social media, so I assume that party invites are coming. Sigh. I have no idea why I should want to pay $7 for a tiny jar of a spice blend when I can buy all of the basic components for roughly the same price and make a load of the spice blend.
-
I recently started working with one of my pledge bro's old teachers, Donald and his wife Sparkles [names changed for privacy]. They created a huge ongoing income that surpassed both their full-time jobs in their 30s. He just said they’re looking for a good candidate to work with. I really respect you and figured it wouldn't hurt to reach out even though we haven't talked in a while. Would be outside of what you got going on full time. Can’t promise anything but wanted to see if you were looking for other income sources?
My relative just messaged me this. First, he had me turned off at pledge bro. But it is not even his pledge bro who is in the MLM, it is one of their old teachers. I'm dying. I love how it ends with "can't promise anything but wanted to see if you were looking for other income sources". Like, I have a postgraduate degree with a fine paying job for years and this guy has the galls to message me about my income sources.
About 75% of that was probably cut and paste from a script he was given.
-
Not the typical MLM story I guess, but when I was 17 I did occasional babysitting for a family up the street. The husband was a long-haul trucker and often gone for 5 days at a crack, and the wife was a second-shift worker who usually had her good friend babysit when the wife worked. In the summer there were days when the friend wasn't available and I would cover until the wife got home from work. A few times she would have some wine when she got home, the kids were sleeping, and she would get a little familiar. The dream of every 17yo boy. Anyway, before long they got divorced and she moved to another neighborhood.
Three years later, she calls me out of the blue and invites me over for dinner. Imagine my imagination. Got to her house, have dinner, sit down in the living room, a little chit-chat, then "By the way, prudent_one, I'm going to be rich. Do you want to come along?"
Wait, is this night going to be even better than I was thinking?
No, it was a pitch for selling Amway. That's all. Nothing else. I passed. Did not hear from her again.
-
Oh, you guys are going to love this, especially some of the comments. FWIW, I've been following The Frugal Girl since the beginning. Pete was probably still working a j-o-b then. Her site was a great help to me when I was counting every penny.
https://www.thefrugalgirl.com/my-thoughts-on-lularich-and-mlms-as-a-whole/
-
Oh, you guys are going to love this, especially some of the comments. FWIW, I've been following The Frugal Girl since the beginning. Pete was probably still working a j-o-b then. Her site was a great help to me when I was counting every penny.
https://www.thefrugalgirl.com/my-thoughts-on-lularich-and-mlms-as-a-whole/
Just saw the first episode. Yikes! One LLR rep I know personally has moved over to selling Ziya athletic wear.
-
Just saw the first episode. Yikes! One LLR rep I know personally has moved over to selling Ziya athletic wear.
I've seen this trend as well.
-
Oh, you guys are going to love this, especially some of the comments. FWIW, I've been following The Frugal Girl since the beginning. Pete was probably still working a j-o-b then. Her site was a great help to me when I was counting every penny.
https://www.thefrugalgirl.com/my-thoughts-on-lularich-and-mlms-as-a-whole/
Thanks Dicey for this link. I hadn't heard of the Frugal Girl before. I like her style!
-
There was an article in the Washington Post about Lularoe and Mormonism recently.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2021/10/04/allure-companies-like-lularoe-latter-day-saint-women/
-
Yesterday, I saw an explanation of what MLM really stands for: Moms Losing Money.
Seems accurate. (And it may already be in this thread somewhere...)
-
Yesterday, I saw an explanation of what MLM really stands for: Moms Losing Money.
Seems accurate. (And it may already be in this thread somewhere...)
This, I think, is what makes me the most angry about MLMs. At least here in the US, mothers get two sets of conflicting messages: your value to home and society is staying home with kids, and your value to home and society are based in how many dollar bills you bring in. MLMs prey on the anxiety that this contradiction presents. This kind of “anxiety manufacture” where someone intentionally feeds anxiety in someone else (oh, you aren’t bringing in any money for the household with all your ‘free time’?) so that they can swoop in with the solution (join my MLM!) is one of my rage face triggers.
-
Yesterday, I saw an explanation of what MLM really stands for: Moms Losing Money.
Seems accurate. (And it may already be in this thread somewhere...)
This, I think, is what makes me the most angry about MLMs. At least here in the US, mothers get two sets of conflicting messages: your value to home and society is staying home with kids, and your value to home and society are based in how many dollar bills you bring in. MLMs prey on the anxiety that this contradiction presents. This kind of “anxiety manufacture” where someone intentionally feeds anxiety in someone else (oh, you aren’t bringing in any money for the household with all your ‘free time’?) so that they can swoop in with the solution (join my MLM!) is one of my rage face triggers.
That's really a good point--it's important to remember that a SAHP provides a whole lot of value, only some of which is easy to calculate. When I start figuring how much it would cost to outsource all the things my wife does, it's staggering.
-
The FTC has sent out some new warning letters. There is a link within this link to all the companies that received the warning. 29 pages, with many names I recognize (amway, beach body, amsoil, mary kay, avon, thirty-one gifts (I think that's the same as thirty-one that sells bags?), avon) and so many more I don't.
Though I do wonder what "Andy's Burgers Shakes & Fries" did to attract the FTC's attention. (ETA: I'm guessing it's some kind of franchise... I'd never heard of it, just thought it was funny to see a name like that on the list.)
https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/press-releases/2021/10/ftc-puts-businesses-notice-false-money-making-claims-could-lead?fbclid=IwAR3EpHXeBTUaD8bQ_BWRnHmrQwANuwDCEM-AJ9RYcagrrfgl-jJr14JTPGo
-
That's really a good point--it's important to remember that a SAHP provides a whole lot of value, only some of which is easy to calculate. When I start figuring how much it would cost to outsource all the things my wife does, it's staggering.
When I was a SAHM and homeschooling the kids, DH and I had term life insurance policies and mine was as much as his. We figured the loss of my labour would cost him as much to substitute as the loss of his income would cost me.
-
For those haven't seen, there's some good AntiMLM stuff on Reddit.
https://www.reddit.com/r/antiMLM/
-
Specifically for moms - https://www.reddit.com/r/antiMLM/comments/rhcosd/its_a_trap/
-
Man, here's a new weird place to get "prospected". I'm part on an local online vegan mentoring thing where people who are new vegans or have questions can talk with someone more experienced if they're having trouble. Perfect place to spam the volunteers with MLM crap! I did find it funny how the guy tried to tie it into veganism, so props for that at least:
I wanted to talk to you about something else too.
I've recently started a side hustle of mine in financial literacy. I'm being trained by a great entrepreneur friend of mine who's been doing this for some time now, adding a lot of great value to people's lives and making a lot of beautiful difference all at no cost!
I once was on the receiving side of his service and realized how so many people need to learn about these information and opportunities and hopped on the wagon myself to spread the awareness and am extending my invitations to my conscious vegan community cause we all deserve the better!
I can tell you more about how I help people if you’re interested in learning more ?
-
Man, here's a new weird place to get "prospected". I'm part on an local online vegan mentoring thing where people who are new vegans or have questions can talk with someone more experienced if they're having trouble. Perfect place to spam the volunteers with MLM crap! I did find it funny how the guy tried to tie it into veganism, so props for that at least:
I wanted to talk to you about something else too.
I've recently started a side hustle of mine in financial literacy. I'm being trained by a great entrepreneur friend of mine who's been doing this for some time now, adding a lot of great value to people's lives and making a lot of beautiful difference all at no cost!
I once was on the receiving side of his service and realized how so many people need to learn about these information and opportunities and hopped on the wagon myself to spread the awareness and am extending my invitations to my conscious vegan community cause we all deserve the better!
I can tell you more about how I help people if you’re interested in learning more ?
"If you have something more full-time, meat-based, and product-oriented, let me know."
-
I stumbled on this post and thought it was great, so I'm sharing it here:
https://runliftmompod.com/dirty-details-about-how-i-left-zyia-active/
-
I stumbled on this post and thought it was great, so I'm sharing it here:
https://runliftmompod.com/dirty-details-about-how-i-left-zyia-active/
Interesting how she almost seems to understand how problematic MLMs are but keeps veering away from fully acknowledging it to herself. I imagine it's because she's working a corporate headquarters MLM job now; her salary depends on still drinking the MLM kool-aid to some extent...plus she clearly doesn't want to think poorly of her former upline, so there's another incentive for these mental gymnastics.
I went back to full-time work in Summer 2021 so my salary is way better than my ZYIA paycheck ever was.
...
Also, I don’t need to post about how #blessed I am to get a paycheck (wouldn’t that be hilarious on LinkedIn?!) or buy things I don’t need.
ZYIA is fast fashion a pyramid scheme and nobody will ever convince me otherwise.
Fixed that for her, lol. She ALMOST, almost got there! but no. Hope she does manage to fully disentangle herself eventually; she seems like a nice enough person.
-
I stumbled on this post and thought it was great, so I'm sharing it here:
https://runliftmompod.com/dirty-details-about-how-i-left-zyia-active/
Interesting how she almost seems to understand how problematic MLMs are but keeps veering away from fully acknowledging it to herself. I imagine it's because she's working a corporate headquarters MLM job now; her salary depends on still drinking the MLM kool-aid to some extent...plus she clearly doesn't want to think poorly of her former upline, so there's another incentive for these mental gymnastics.
I went back to full-time work in Summer 2021 so my salary is way better than my ZYIA paycheck ever was.
...
Also, I don’t need to post about how #blessed I am to get a paycheck (wouldn’t that be hilarious on LinkedIn?!) or buy things I don’t need.
ZYIA is fast fashion a pyramid scheme and nobody will ever convince me otherwise.
Fixed that for her, lol. She ALMOST, almost got there! but no. Hope she does manage to fully disentangle herself eventually; she seems like a nice enough person.
She goes into quite a bit of detail about how she's working for a bullshit company, but as you said, she can't quite get over the finish line. That "#blessed" was tongue-in-cheek about how silly the MLM social media presence can be. She pokes fun at it on several levels, but holds back.
https://runliftmompod.com/why-i-stopped-being-a-zyia-active-rep/ (https://runliftmompod.com/why-i-stopped-being-a-zyia-active-rep/)
In this companion article, she goes into a ton of detail about how the bulk of her "business" was recruiting other people, that she definitely wasn't compensated for the amount of effort put in (despite being an early adopter), but has nothing bad to say about the industry. Apparently she had an epiphany about selling hyped-up cheap sweatshop-made clothing. She probably realized that the podcast and blog she's built (using her MLM customers as a fan base) is more profitable than earning the equivalent of minimum wage from her MLM.
-
This morning I started reading Cultish: The Language of Fanaticism by Amanda Montell. One of the sections is specifically about MLMs. The author is not saying that MLMs are cults; only that they use some of the same language/manipulation methods that cults do. So far, it's a fascinating read.
-
Surge Travel? Or known as SG360 Travel too I think. Anyone heard of it? I was sent a Zoom link so I watched it out of politeness. It appears you pay $79 to get in plus an additional $480 and if you haven't gotten sales you allegedly get your money back after a year no questions asked. I didn't do it because I no longer do MLMs and I was concerned about the downtick in travel due to Covid.
And I don't want to bug my friends to create a downline.
-
Does anyone else feel like YNAB’s new coaching model combined with closing their support forum has them going the direction of an MLM?
-
Does anyone else feel like YNAB’s new coaching model combined with closing their support forum has them going the direction of an MLM?
Didn’t know they did that, but I just Googled it and it does feel a bit like they’re going down that road.
You know, though, for all that I think MLMs in general are like a social virus that harms people’s finances, friendship networks, and mental health…I could maybe see one that’s built around a budgeting tool doing some good in the world? I’m visualizing people getting small group support to improve their finances…goodness knows most normal people could really use the help, and aren’t going to do it on their own.
-
Does anyone else feel like YNAB’s new coaching model combined with closing their support forum has them going the direction of an MLM?
I still have and use their standalone software. I don't know about MLM, but they've definitely gone in the recurring payments profit model rather than the one-time purchase kind. Getting people to pay for the privilege of showing others how to use the software is a new source of income. Their target audience is financial professionals and "life coaches" so if you've got another thing going this could be a way to generate more customers for that business (like an MLM).
-
Does anyone have any good (anti) MLM podcast recommendations?
-
Does anyone have any good (anti) MLM podcast recommendations?
I've just started two, Downline (Canadian, but they cover US stuff too), and Life After MLM (Roberta Blevins. If you've paid much attention to the Lularoe mess, you've probably seen or heard her, she's very active in the anti-MLM community. I've seen some of her interviews where she can tend to talk over people, and have heard someone complain that she does that in her podcast, but I've only just started the first episode so can't say for sure yet.)
There was also The Dream. I know season one was anti-MLM, but not sure what season 2 focused on.
Finally, Sounds Like MLM, but Okay. They had a facebook group for a long time, but they stopped adding new posts several months ago (maybe even a year). I've listened to some of their episodes, but not all.
-
Came across this today and thought it belonged here:
https://preview.redd.it/jqmp295b1tv91.png?width=1125&format=png&auto=webp&s=05a10d16294689a159b54b2049d51fad38e655a8
-
Boy, I would be very tempted to say I was going, and then ghost it.
-
That might be the single most cringe thing I’ve seen on here. I’d happily pay $500 to not have to go to the wedding and be a friend of someone like that. Fortunately I don’t have to.
-
Came across this today and thought it belonged here:
https://preview.redd.it/jqmp295b1tv91.png?width=1125&format=png&auto=webp&s=05a10d16294689a159b54b2049d51fad38e655a8
Is that real?
-
Came across this today and thought it belonged here:
https://preview.redd.it/jqmp295b1tv91.png?width=1125&format=png&auto=webp&s=05a10d16294689a159b54b2049d51fad38e655a8
Is that real?
Good question. I just did a google image search and didn't find any source for it other than compilations of wedding horror stories. So I guess it's probably fake. SOrry, everyone. You may return to your regularly scheduled mockery of antimustachianism.
-
Has anyone heard of FranNet? I just had someone reach out to me on LinkedIn with the following now "I am working with people who are ready to explore business ownership. I’m .... with FranNet. We help people get into business. If you’re ready to be the CEO of your own business or create another stream of income, please schedule with me below"
It sure looks like an MLM to me. Does anyone know for sure?
-
Has anyone heard of FranNet? I just had someone reach out to me on LinkedIn with the following now "I am working with people who are ready to explore business ownership. I’m .... with FranNet. We help people get into business. If you’re ready to be the CEO of your own business or create another stream of income, please schedule with me below"
It sure looks like an MLM to me. Does anyone know for sure?
I don't know if they're an MLM per se, but they do franchise consulting. Are you looking to buy into a franchise? If not, stay away.
For reference, here's their website.
https://frannet.com
-
I don't have any new MLM stories lately, but someone I went to high school with has a conflict of interest on her sleeve that nobody else seems to notice (and pumping personal contacts for financial gain which this thread got me thinking). A couple years ago she started hitting us all up on Facebook to go on a cruise. I thought it was out of the blue and aside from accepting her as a FB friend ages ago I never even looked at her profile. This time I took a notice that her profile pic was of her in a Dominoes uniform which seemed odd for someone trying to put together a cruise. I dug a little deeper and saw that she is part of some travel agency group of which she appears to be the only employee (their facebook page is nothing but photos of her). The cruise idea died on the vine from lack of interest. Fast forward to this weekend where she's taken it upon herself to organize our 20th class reunion. She wants to do it at a casino a couple hours from where we all grew up which will include a venue, group hotel reservations, flights, and some other things that have to be booked well in advance (that she needs to be in the loop on for some reason). I can't help but wonder if she's getting some kind of deal or kickback out of this arrangement that she's not disclosing.
So the reunion this summer is officially dead. We're within the window for making venue reservations and only a handful of people confirmed their attendance. A smaller group of us decided we're going to just barbecue or get together at a restaurant that we can reserve later this summer when more of our schedules intersect. The "organizer" who complained in the Facebook group chat all morning long about how we need to put some more effort into this put forth "let's just plan something next summer that we can properly organize like trying the casino again or a cruise." Nobody in our class but her is suggesting a cruise. Most of the folks I went to school with can't afford it. Nobody has called her out directly, but a couple other classmates who know she's doing this to try get some kind of booking fee have made it loudly known these ideas of her will never work with our class.
She struck again. One of our favorite high school teachers is retiring this summer. Word is spreading like wildfire through Facebook for everybody who had him that we should do "something" for him. What that will be has not materialized yet. She joined the conversation tonight with this contribution:
"I have a 501c3 within my music company [company name is her initials] so we can make donations and get tax write offs for money's donated to the placards. We can bless him and give him an Ed McMahon check with the placard."
Every time we have a group discussion like this she's trying to get a piece of the action.
-
I don't have any new MLM stories lately, but someone I went to high school with has a conflict of interest on her sleeve that nobody else seems to notice (and pumping personal contacts for financial gain which this thread got me thinking). A couple years ago she started hitting us all up on Facebook to go on a cruise. I thought it was out of the blue and aside from accepting her as a FB friend ages ago I never even looked at her profile. This time I took a notice that her profile pic was of her in a Dominoes uniform which seemed odd for someone trying to put together a cruise. I dug a little deeper and saw that she is part of some travel agency group of which she appears to be the only employee (their facebook page is nothing but photos of her). The cruise idea died on the vine from lack of interest. Fast forward to this weekend where she's taken it upon herself to organize our 20th class reunion. She wants to do it at a casino a couple hours from where we all grew up which will include a venue, group hotel reservations, flights, and some other things that have to be booked well in advance (that she needs to be in the loop on for some reason). I can't help but wonder if she's getting some kind of deal or kickback out of this arrangement that she's not disclosing.
So the reunion this summer is officially dead. We're within the window for making venue reservations and only a handful of people confirmed their attendance. A smaller group of us decided we're going to just barbecue or get together at a restaurant that we can reserve later this summer when more of our schedules intersect. The "organizer" who complained in the Facebook group chat all morning long about how we need to put some more effort into this put forth "let's just plan something next summer that we can properly organize like trying the casino again or a cruise." Nobody in our class but her is suggesting a cruise. Most of the folks I went to school with can't afford it. Nobody has called her out directly, but a couple other classmates who know she's doing this to try get some kind of booking fee have made it loudly known these ideas of her will never work with our class.
She struck again. One of our favorite high school teachers is retiring this summer. Word is spreading like wildfire through Facebook for everybody who had him that we should do "something" for him. What that will be has not materialized yet. She joined the conversation tonight with this contribution:
"I have a 501c3 within my music company [company name is her initials] so we can make donations and get tax write offs for money's donated to the placards. We can bless him and give him an Ed McMahon check with the placard."
Every time we have a group discussion like this she's trying to get a piece of the action.
Yuck, talk about desperation. I’ve got my 20 year class reunion this year, not sure what the plan is yet, but I’m pretty sure nobody from my class would try to pull crap like this.
-
I don't have any new MLM stories lately, but someone I went to high school with has a conflict of interest on her sleeve that nobody else seems to notice (and pumping personal contacts for financial gain which this thread got me thinking). A couple years ago she started hitting us all up on Facebook to go on a cruise. I thought it was out of the blue and aside from accepting her as a FB friend ages ago I never even looked at her profile. This time I took a notice that her profile pic was of her in a Dominoes uniform which seemed odd for someone trying to put together a cruise. I dug a little deeper and saw that she is part of some travel agency group of which she appears to be the only employee (their facebook page is nothing but photos of her). The cruise idea died on the vine from lack of interest. Fast forward to this weekend where she's taken it upon herself to organize our 20th class reunion. She wants to do it at a casino a couple hours from where we all grew up which will include a venue, group hotel reservations, flights, and some other things that have to be booked well in advance (that she needs to be in the loop on for some reason). I can't help but wonder if she's getting some kind of deal or kickback out of this arrangement that she's not disclosing.
So the reunion this summer is officially dead. We're within the window for making venue reservations and only a handful of people confirmed their attendance. A smaller group of us decided we're going to just barbecue or get together at a restaurant that we can reserve later this summer when more of our schedules intersect. The "organizer" who complained in the Facebook group chat all morning long about how we need to put some more effort into this put forth "let's just plan something next summer that we can properly organize like trying the casino again or a cruise." Nobody in our class but her is suggesting a cruise. Most of the folks I went to school with can't afford it. Nobody has called her out directly, but a couple other classmates who know she's doing this to try get some kind of booking fee have made it loudly known these ideas of her will never work with our class.
She struck again. One of our favorite high school teachers is retiring this summer. Word is spreading like wildfire through Facebook for everybody who had him that we should do "something" for him. What that will be has not materialized yet. She joined the conversation tonight with this contribution:
"I have a 501c3 within my music company [company name is her initials] so we can make donations and get tax write offs for money's donated to the placards. We can bless him and give him an Ed McMahon check with the placard."
Every time we have a group discussion like this she's trying to get a piece of the action.
That bimbo is advocating tax fraud.
First, she's probably lying about "having" a 501(c)(3). A tax exempt charity, by definition, is a not-for-profit corporation. It cannot be "within" or even closely related to a privately owned for-profit company such as a LLC, a sole proprietorship, or corporation. All not-for-profit corporations are set up with no shareholders. Decisions are made by the Board of Directors and the elected executives. The charity must be set up with a specific charitable purpose. On the off chance that she actually got a charity approved with a TIN number and a letter from the IRS confirming her tax exempt status, if she's collecting donations to benefit someone she knows and encouraging people to write off their gifts, she's breaking the law.
When you run a tax exempt charity, there must be a mechanism in place to ensure that decision makers in the charity do not abuse their authority to enrich themselves or their friends and family. If there are close ties to a for-profit business, such as owners who also function as executive directors, Board members must recuse themselves from decisions made that could potentially benefit themselves or their families. Self-dealing, for example, is no-go. So is collecting money for a specific individual who is not a member of a disadvantaged group. Buying someone a retirement gift or handing him a check isn't the same as raising money for kidney research. There are people who receive financial help from certain kinds of charity, yet there's typically an application process and a way of determining who gets help and who doesn't.
Donations that are directed to an individual by using a 501(c)(3) as a "pass-through" cannot be written off as charitable donations by the donor. Any attempt to do so will create delays in processing and (if IRS workloads allow) flag the account for audit. Donations like these are taxable income to both the charity and the gift recipient. That kind of income is in the same category as what might be raised through vice transactions (such as alcohol sales or gambling), for-profit activity that competes with mainstream businesses that pay taxes, or other income that isn't tax exempt. If a non-trivial (not explicitly quantified by the IRS but usually more than 10%) proportion of a charity's annual income is tied up in activities that aren't tax exempt, established case law dictates that the charity will lose its tax exempt status if the state ever sees fit to challenge it.
Bibble-babbling about how to "bless" someone through tax fraud is disgusting. I wouldn't care to commit tax fraud myself, nor do I see any merit in benefiting from someone else's fraud. Of course, since she seems to have trouble with writing and spelling an intelligible sentence in English, she clearly isn't qualified to run even a vanity charity.