Author Topic: No, I won't buy into your MLM  (Read 256907 times)

OtherJen

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #950 on: October 22, 2018, 07:59:47 AM »
This podcast is great, and it isn’t only available through stitcher. I listen to it via apple podcasts. It is just ad-free on stitcher.

Yeah, no problems listening to it on Apple Podcasts (other than the annoying ads for Stitcher).

merula

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #951 on: October 22, 2018, 08:55:07 AM »
Ah, that'd be the issue. I refuse to download any Apple software after I had to do a complete clean install of my OS because "uninstalling" iTunes/Quicktime didn't actually uninstall all the associated software. That was in 2009 and I've never looked back.

Still wish it were on Google Play, but I'm fine with Stitcher to avoid Apple.

OtherJen

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #952 on: October 23, 2018, 07:37:34 AM »
And now a friend is hawking something called Esprita. Yeah, I’m not paying $50 per 30-day supply of vitamin/herbal supplement even if it does make me “live my legendary life.”

BeanCounter

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #953 on: October 23, 2018, 08:36:18 AM »
The Dream podcast is fantastic. In the latest episode they get into a little of the market saturation issues of MLMs, siting how many Mary Kay consuls there are versus Walgreens and CVSs. I’ve always wondered why people don’t see that when they sign up for an MLM. You’re friends already know at least three other “friends” selling the same thing!!! Duh.

mm1970

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #954 on: October 23, 2018, 11:55:12 AM »
The Dream podcast is fantastic. In the latest episode they get into a little of the market saturation issues of MLMs, siting how many Mary Kay consuls there are versus Walgreens and CVSs. I’ve always wondered why people don’t see that when they sign up for an MLM. You’re friends already know at least three other “friends” selling the same thing!!! Duh.
Some of them don't know it.

In the Beachbody world (apparently in CA, they are everywhere!!) - I feel like the saturation has happened over the last several years.

I've followed a few people who were in early-ish.  Some were business owners or had day jobs.  They ended up being able to sell their businesses and quit their day jobs.  One of them quit a couple of years ago (after she closed down her business), and has virtually disappeared.  But is hawking something else now. She was honest about the changes that had happened AND the saturation and she just couldn't keep her income up.  Too much competition, and too many requirements to get "new" customers every month.  Then BB told everyone they had to be exclusive.

The exclusive part caused a couple of local people that I know to quit the business.  One was working on a second MLM which was a wine club (it was a terrible idea.  While this particular person was also a cafe owner, so had some overlap with wine - the wine club was selling wines from Aus and NZ and um... we live in wine country!!) 

That particular person ended up BACK in the BB business, not sure how successful.  Some folks that I know are pretty successful at it, but generally they are business owners who have access to lots of new customers AND their businesses are health related in the first place.

anyway, it took some googling and there are 340,000 beachbody coaches.  That's... a lot.

MarciaB

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #955 on: October 23, 2018, 01:26:08 PM »
The Dream podcast is fantastic. In the latest episode they get into a little of the market saturation issues of MLMs, siting how many Mary Kay consuls there are versus Walgreens and CVSs. I’ve always wondered why people don’t see that when they sign up for an MLM. You’re friends already know at least three other “friends” selling the same thing!!! Duh.
Some of them don't know it.

In the Beachbody world (apparently in CA, they are everywhere!!) - I feel like the saturation has happened over the last several years.

I've followed a few people who were in early-ish.  Some were business owners or had day jobs.  They ended up being able to sell their businesses and quit their day jobs.  One of them quit a couple of years ago (after she closed down her business), and has virtually disappeared.  But is hawking something else now. She was honest about the changes that had happened AND the saturation and she just couldn't keep her income up.  Too much competition, and too many requirements to get "new" customers every month.  Then BB told everyone they had to be exclusive.

The exclusive part caused a couple of local people that I know to quit the business.  One was working on a second MLM which was a wine club (it was a terrible idea.  While this particular person was also a cafe owner, so had some overlap with wine - the wine club was selling wines from Aus and NZ and um... we live in wine country!!) 

That particular person ended up BACK in the BB business, not sure how successful.  Some folks that I know are pretty successful at it, but generally they are business owners who have access to lots of new customers AND their businesses are health related in the first place.

anyway, it took some googling and there are 340,000 beachbody coaches.  That's... a lot.

That's like one BB coach for every 1000 Americans...talk about a saturated market.

Proud Foot

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #956 on: October 24, 2018, 08:20:42 AM »
I saw this and feel like it is extremely relevant....

How to Get a Friend Out of an MLM

20957

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #957 on: October 26, 2018, 12:42:31 PM »
Is there anyone else who doesn't run into MLM stuff really ever? I have seen about 5 cars with ads on, and once someone gave me a card after we chatted at a playground. Is it because I'm not on Facebook? The stats say so many Americans are involved, I'm not sure how I've avoided them. Speculation?

Stimpy

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #958 on: October 26, 2018, 12:57:37 PM »
Is there anyone else who doesn't run into MLM stuff really ever? I have seen about 5 cars with ads on, and once someone gave me a card after we chatted at a playground. Is it because I'm not on Facebook? The stats say so many Americans are involved, I'm not sure how I've avoided them. Speculation?

First is in who you know.  Only 1 friend and a family member (whom refused to pitch to family thank goodness!) of mine has ever got involved with that crap, and beyond that, never dealt with it.
Second, where you go, (ie facebook, certain social events, etc) if you don't hit those a lot, your probably missing out on comedy gold and annoying sales pitches.  (Personally the lack of pitches makes up for lack of comedy but to each their own!)
Third, there is some luck involved, as there are still a few whom go out in the community and pick a random sucker, but most of that is now done via facebook and the like so your probably likely avoid it 99.9% of the time.

Anyone wanna buy some Amway?  (Just kidding!)

BeanCounter

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #959 on: October 26, 2018, 01:00:28 PM »

Villanelle

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #960 on: October 27, 2018, 01:30:20 AM »
Is there anyone else who doesn't run into MLM stuff really ever? I have seen about 5 cars with ads on, and once someone gave me a card after we chatted at a playground. Is it because I'm not on Facebook? The stats say so many Americans are involved, I'm not sure how I've avoided them. Speculation?

I'm a military spouse, and military spouse employment (or UNemployment) is a huge issue due to all the moving.  Even more so overseas (which I am).  So it makes a lot of sense that MLMs are very attractive to military spouses.  You can take your "business" with you, work your own hours, and not have the pain and frustration of looking for and maybe not finding a job at each new location.

So I think I probably see even more of these than the average Joe.  Just got invited to a Brunch and Beauty (some natural make up and skin care MLM), and on any given day my FB fee probably has 2-3 MLM posts, and I keep a pretty small friends list.  I know one person who as far as I can tell, has been very successful.  (Though it's hard to say for sure as part of the business is trumpeting how successful you are, whether it's true or not.)  She got in very early on one I had never heard of.  (Some bracelet/charm thing called Keep.)  That was several years ago and I've still never seen anyone else talking about this company, so it seems like it's not as saturated.  (Of course, that could be that no one buys, but it doesn't seem like she gets any fewer responses than any other MLM posts, and in fact probably more.)  So of the dozens and dozens in my semi-immediate circle, that's one seeming success story. 

Hula Hoop

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #961 on: October 30, 2018, 01:11:53 AM »
My friend's mother is selling some kind of diet meal replacement shakes.  She tried to pitch it to me last time I saw her, which was a strange experience.  I'm a huge foodie and pretty healthy so diet shakes hold 0 appeal to me even if they weren't an MLM.

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #962 on: November 02, 2018, 11:39:42 AM »
I've been listening to The Dream podcast. It's really well done. The way they trace the evolution of MLMs from Prosperity Gospel preachers like Norman Vincent Peale and pop psychology is fascinating. I mentioned earlier in this thread that I'm acquainted with a couple who are quite high up the pyramid in a nutrition supplement MLM. Looking through their social media posts, I can definitely see how all those lines of thought tie together. There is some dark stuff hidden underneath all those cheerful Insta selfies.

englishteacheralex

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #963 on: November 02, 2018, 11:43:21 AM »
I've been listening to that, too! Fascinating! Great stuff.

SheWhoWalksAtLunch

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #964 on: November 02, 2018, 11:52:18 AM »
I'm also listening to The Dream and learning so much.  Now if I could get a few people I know to listen to it.
Hmm...might have to offer to drive them long distance somewhere.  Make it an educational road trip.

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #965 on: November 03, 2018, 06:54:43 PM »
Wasn't there a big trend about a generation ago where MLM companies like Scamway would require their devotees to buy a "book of the month" which was invariably some bullshit rah-rah artist telling them how everything will be pie in the sky by and by if they just believe and pray hard enough? Some of the authors of those books were actually MLM honchos, or else people who owed their "best-selling author" status to the MLM. In exchange for the push they'd come and speak at MLM events.

Hunny156

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #966 on: November 05, 2018, 12:31:07 PM »
Wasn't there a big trend about a generation ago where MLM companies like Scamway would require their devotees to buy a "book of the month" which was invariably some bullshit rah-rah artist telling them how everything will be pie in the sky by and by if they just believe and pray hard enough? Some of the authors of those books were actually MLM honchos, or else people who owed their "best-selling author" status to the MLM. In exchange for the push they'd come and speak at MLM events.

Robert Kiyosaki owes much of his early success to being picked up by Scamway. 

Scamway also did create a bunch of monthly tapes that their minions were forced to pay for and listen to, but there was some internal scam revealed when it became clear that some uplines were generating much of their profit from selling their "knowledge" to their poor downlines, and the success wasn't from the actual products.  Same for the many seminars they insisted the downlines attended; much of the ticket cost went straight into the uplines pocket.

These trends don't seem to stop though, Rachel Hollis is the latest MLM God, with her book Girl Wash Your Face.  She's the guest speaker at many of the MLM conventions right now.

englishteacheralex

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #967 on: November 05, 2018, 02:24:40 PM »
A heartbreaking victim of MLMs has been flying beneath my radar for about twenty years. This thread, along with the "The Dream" podcast, has made me see her story in a new light...

It's an interesting and very sad story, and it makes me furious at MLMs.

I first met her while I was in high school. She and her husband hung out at the rockclimbing gym where I worked after school, and they befriended me. They were in their midtwenties, hip, fun, cool people and they took me rockclimbing sometimes. I also had dinner at their place occasionally. I really looked up to them.

I kept in touch a little bit throughout my post-high school, post-college and beyond life. They never had kids. She was a super triathlete, always training for Ironman races and looking for official sponsorship. I also noticed that she was incredibly self promotional. She sent me her newsletter every week, and I followed it in a living vicariously sort of way.

She sold every MLM I'd ever heard of. Called me up now and again to ask how I was doing and see if I was interested in any of her MLMs. I live in Hawaii, mind you, and she was in Colorado. Her newsletter was full of Dave Ramsey and her "bizes"--that's how she referred to them.

About two years ago the newsletter mentioned she had gotten divorced. Last year she was pregnant. Just had a baby girl. She's 45. Then a newsletter that she's starting over on Dave Ramsey baby step #1 but this time it's going to work because of all her bizes.

OMG. The whole thing started to make sense. MLMs have completely bankrupted this woman and her husband couldn't take it anymore.

Soul sucking scams. Tragic. 


Just Joe

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #968 on: November 12, 2018, 04:15:26 PM »
I fell into Amway hole around 2012. I was new to the area. Someone greeted me while shopping at Walmart and told my face is very familiar and had some conversations. In short, he got my phone number, called me a few days after and told there is a side gig and if I wanted to work on it.

I remember I had only $300 in my account at that time. I said yes, he took me to some meeting that had people in suits. They had music, motivational talk...bla...bla...bla...I was brainwashed (or I was naive) and ended up signing up for it. After 2 months of horrifying experience, finally came out of it. They asked me to go and meet random people at Walmart and exchange phone numbers. Asked us to call those people on Sundays and convince them to attend meetings.

Not only that, they asked me to contact my friends & friends of friends circle and convince them. It was one of the worst mistakes of my life.

I never knew such crude and selfish people existed. I'm allergic to Amway since then.

Oh yeah, Amway people are awful. Husband and I got tricked into meeting another couple (friends of our friend) for what we thought was a coffee date with potential new friends. Instead, they spent 2 hours pitching Amway to us. We got out by promising to consider it, told them we weren’t interested when they called us later, and never heard from them again. Good riddance.
I grew up in Amway land. It is truly awful how deceptive people can be in trying to trick you into hearing your sales pitch. My parents had it happen to them a couple times and even I suffered through a "let's meet for coffee" thing with a colleague early in my career.

Isn't there some overlap between the Amway leadership people and part of the political establishment in the USA? Now there is a bad situation...
« Last Edit: November 12, 2018, 04:24:08 PM by Just Joe »

OtherJen

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #969 on: November 12, 2018, 08:57:04 PM »
I fell into Amway hole around 2012. I was new to the area. Someone greeted me while shopping at Walmart and told my face is very familiar and had some conversations. In short, he got my phone number, called me a few days after and told there is a side gig and if I wanted to work on it.

I remember I had only $300 in my account at that time. I said yes, he took me to some meeting that had people in suits. They had music, motivational talk...bla...bla...bla...I was brainwashed (or I was naive) and ended up signing up for it. After 2 months of horrifying experience, finally came out of it. They asked me to go and meet random people at Walmart and exchange phone numbers. Asked us to call those people on Sundays and convince them to attend meetings.

Not only that, they asked me to contact my friends & friends of friends circle and convince them. It was one of the worst mistakes of my life.

I never knew such crude and selfish people existed. I'm allergic to Amway since then.

Oh yeah, Amway people are awful. Husband and I got tricked into meeting another couple (friends of our friend) for what we thought was a coffee date with potential new friends. Instead, they spent 2 hours pitching Amway to us. We got out by promising to consider it, told them we weren’t interested when they called us later, and never heard from them again. Good riddance.
I grew up in Amway land. It is truly awful how deceptive people can be in trying to trick you into hearing your sales pitch. My parents had it happen to them a couple times and even I suffered through a "let's meet for coffee" thing with a colleague early in my career.

Isn't there some overlap between the Amway leadership people and part of the political establishment in the USA? Now there is a bad situation...

Yep. Betsy DeVos is the US Secretary of Education despite not having attended public schools, not having any background in education, not having sent her children to public schools, and continually undermining public education in her home state by undermining teacher’s unions and shilling for corporate charter schools to line her own pocketbook. As a Michigander, I apologize for the fact that she’s been inflicted on the rest of the country.

zolotiyeruki

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #970 on: November 13, 2018, 02:02:40 AM »
Yep. Betsy DeVos is the US Secretary of Education despite not having attended public schools, not having any background in education, not having sent her children to public schools, and continually undermining public education in her home state by undermining teacher’s unions and shilling for corporate charter schools to line her own pocketbook. As a Michigander, I apologize for the fact that she’s been inflicted on the rest of the country.
At the risk of pulling this thread off topic, I know there was a lot of hoopla when she was first appointed, but other than ending Common Core, I haven't heard much lately from/about from the Dept. of Ed.  Has there been anything coming out of DC on that front?

I'm a red panda

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #971 on: November 13, 2018, 06:02:41 AM »
Yep. Betsy DeVos is the US Secretary of Education despite not having attended public schools, not having any background in education, not having sent her children to public schools, and continually undermining public education in her home state by undermining teacher’s unions and shilling for corporate charter schools to line her own pocketbook. As a Michigander, I apologize for the fact that she’s been inflicted on the rest of the country.
At the risk of pulling this thread off topic, I know there was a lot of hoopla when she was first appointed, but other than ending Common Core, I haven't heard much lately from/about from the Dept. of Ed.  Has there been anything coming out of DC on that front?

Not sure how the department of ed can end Common Core since it was never a federal initiative...
States all have the ability to adopt their own standards. (Most have 'adapted' Common Core.)

LifeHappens

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #972 on: November 13, 2018, 07:21:45 AM »
Yep. Betsy DeVos is the US Secretary of Education despite not having attended public schools, not having any background in education, not having sent her children to public schools, and continually undermining public education in her home state by undermining teacher’s unions and shilling for corporate charter schools to line her own pocketbook. As a Michigander, I apologize for the fact that she’s been inflicted on the rest of the country.
At the risk of pulling this thread off topic, I know there was a lot of hoopla when she was first appointed, but other than ending Common Core, I haven't heard much lately from/about from the Dept. of Ed.  Has there been anything coming out of DC on that front?
The DeVos family also are major investors in SoFi. Betsy has been working to relax lending standards for student loans, ease restrictions on for-profit colleges (more loans) and pull back promises of loan forgiveness. Basically, she would like all students to graduate with crippling amounts of debt, which can then be re-financed with SoFi.

Just Joe

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #973 on: November 13, 2018, 07:54:50 AM »
MLM top level ethics and politicians. There is a fine combination.

merula

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #974 on: November 13, 2018, 09:09:47 AM »
One of the most recent episodes of The Dream (#7) dove into exactly that issue. When Amway was under investigation by the FTC, the two co-founders Richard DeVos and Jay Van Andel were finance chair of the RNC and chair of the US Chamber of Commerce, respectively. Both were also personal friends of then-president Gerald Ford, as they were all from Grand Rapids, MI, and had a private meeting with Ford at the White House in the midst of the FTC investigation.

Betsy DeVos is Richard Devos' daughter-in-law, married to his son Dick DeVos, who was a former chairman of Amway. Current chairman is Steve Van Andel (son of Jay), and current president is Doug DeVos, brother of Dick and BIL to Betsy.

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #975 on: November 13, 2018, 11:19:00 AM »
MLM top level ethics and politicians. There is a fine combination.

It seems to me a natural fit: politicians are such a corrupt, venial, and self-serving lot that other kinds of financial predators fit right in.

My fellow Yankistani voters seem to like it this way. Because apparently it's an unwritten rule that you have to vote for either the right-wing wackos or the left-wing wackos, a politician who's privileged enough and who is plugged in with a major party clique, or who can tap into the most vile and turpitudinous aspects of the voting public, can generally expect to get elected.

zolotiyeruki

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #976 on: November 14, 2018, 02:11:49 AM »
Yep. Betsy DeVos is the US Secretary of Education despite not having attended public schools, not having any background in education, not having sent her children to public schools, and continually undermining public education in her home state by undermining teacher’s unions and shilling for corporate charter schools to line her own pocketbook. As a Michigander, I apologize for the fact that she’s been inflicted on the rest of the country.
At the risk of pulling this thread off topic, I know there was a lot of hoopla when she was first appointed, but other than ending Common Core, I haven't heard much lately from/about from the Dept. of Ed.  Has there been anything coming out of DC on that front?

Not sure how the department of ed can end Common Core since it was never a federal initiative...
States all have the ability to adopt their own standards. (Most have 'adapted' Common Core.)
Well, it was a "hey, adopt Common Core and we'll give you money" sort of deal, as I understand it.  Aaaanyway, back to the topic at hand...

I'm a red panda

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #977 on: November 14, 2018, 06:10:14 AM »
Yep. Betsy DeVos is the US Secretary of Education despite not having attended public schools, not having any background in education, not having sent her children to public schools, and continually undermining public education in her home state by undermining teacher’s unions and shilling for corporate charter schools to line her own pocketbook. As a Michigander, I apologize for the fact that she’s been inflicted on the rest of the country.
At the risk of pulling this thread off topic, I know there was a lot of hoopla when she was first appointed, but other than ending Common Core, I haven't heard much lately from/about from the Dept. of Ed.  Has there been anything coming out of DC on that front?

Not sure how the department of ed can end Common Core since it was never a federal initiative...
States all have the ability to adopt their own standards. (Most have 'adapted' Common Core.)
Well, it was a "hey, adopt Common Core and we'll give you money" sort of deal, as I understand it.  Aaaanyway, back to the topic at hand...

Yeah, and then they all "got rid of" Common Core (while actually keeping it, but rebranding it. Hence adapting, no longer adopting.)

sparkytheop

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #978 on: November 14, 2018, 07:35:03 AM »
The lady who runs "mommygyver" and spent a lot of effort showing Lularoe for what it is has been in a long legal fight (they are trying to get her sources for the information she has been given, and, as a journalist, she's fighting it).  You can still read at least some of her posts on LLR on her site, but it's not as easy to get to as it was before.

https://www.mommygyver.com/mommyblog-1/category/LuLaRoe/page/8  I linked to the older posts so you can work your way through the timeline if interested.

Sugaree

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #979 on: November 14, 2018, 07:42:49 AM »
Yep. Betsy DeVos is the US Secretary of Education despite not having attended public schools, not having any background in education, not having sent her children to public schools, and continually undermining public education in her home state by undermining teacher’s unions and shilling for corporate charter schools to line her own pocketbook. As a Michigander, I apologize for the fact that she’s been inflicted on the rest of the country.
At the risk of pulling this thread off topic, I know there was a lot of hoopla when she was first appointed, but other than ending Common Core, I haven't heard much lately from/about from the Dept. of Ed.  Has there been anything coming out of DC on that front?

Not sure how the department of ed can end Common Core since it was never a federal initiative...
States all have the ability to adopt their own standards. (Most have 'adapted' Common Core.)
Well, it was a "hey, adopt Common Core and we'll give you money" sort of deal, as I understand it.  Aaaanyway, back to the topic at hand...

I'm going to stay off topic for just a minute to say that as much shit as people talked about it, my kid is in Kindergarten and I love the Common Core worksheets that he brings home, especially the math worksheets.  I think a big part of the problem was the implementation.  You can't spend 5 years teaching kids one method and then expect that the next year everyone will magically know how to use the "new" method.  It should have been introduced in Kindergarten one year, first grade the next, then second grade, etc. so that the kids get the basis of it.  I suspect that states that didn't really want to adopt CC did a piss-poor job of implementing the change so that they could then go back and say "Hey, this is crap.  See how bad our standardized test scores are now."

I'm a red panda

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #980 on: November 14, 2018, 08:01:23 AM »
Yep. Betsy DeVos is the US Secretary of Education despite not having attended public schools, not having any background in education, not having sent her children to public schools, and continually undermining public education in her home state by undermining teacher’s unions and shilling for corporate charter schools to line her own pocketbook. As a Michigander, I apologize for the fact that she’s been inflicted on the rest of the country.
At the risk of pulling this thread off topic, I know there was a lot of hoopla when she was first appointed, but other than ending Common Core, I haven't heard much lately from/about from the Dept. of Ed.  Has there been anything coming out of DC on that front?

Not sure how the department of ed can end Common Core since it was never a federal initiative...
States all have the ability to adopt their own standards. (Most have 'adapted' Common Core.)
Well, it was a "hey, adopt Common Core and we'll give you money" sort of deal, as I understand it.  Aaaanyway, back to the topic at hand...

I'm going to stay off topic for just a minute to say that as much shit as people talked about it, my kid is in Kindergarten and I love the Common Core worksheets that he brings home, especially the math worksheets.  I think a big part of the problem was the implementation.  You can't spend 5 years teaching kids one method and then expect that the next year everyone will magically know how to use the "new" method.  It should have been introduced in Kindergarten one year, first grade the next, then second grade, etc. so that the kids get the basis of it.  I suspect that states that didn't really want to adopt CC did a piss-poor job of implementing the change so that they could then go back and say "Hey, this is crap.  See how bad our standardized test scores are now."

We can start a new thread if you want, but the biggest issue most people have with Common Core isn't actually the standards, but curriculum that was designed to meet the standards; which is an entirely separate thing and dozens and dozens of curriculums exist, and none of them were officially put out by the NGA that put out CC.  There is almost nothing in Common Core math that approaches methods of how it has to be taught. (In fact, as far as multiplication goes- standard algorithm is the only one that officially has to be taught, but other methods, like partial products can help support the understanding required in other standards.)


As for MLMs- I'm shockingly not seeing a lot of them on my facebook lately. I think people gave up on me.

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #981 on: November 14, 2018, 08:13:42 AM »
Is there anyone else who doesn't run into MLM stuff really ever? I have seen about 5 cars with ads on, and once someone gave me a card after we chatted at a playground. Is it because I'm not on Facebook? The stats say so many Americans are involved, I'm not sure how I've avoided them. Speculation?

I think class background matters.  Exactly one of my college-educated friends has made a spiel for a MLM to me, but probably 1/3-1/2 of my high school-educated friends and family are involved.

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #982 on: November 14, 2018, 08:16:45 AM »
Is there anyone else who doesn't run into MLM stuff really ever? I have seen about 5 cars with ads on, and once someone gave me a card after we chatted at a playground. Is it because I'm not on Facebook? The stats say so many Americans are involved, I'm not sure how I've avoided them. Speculation?

I think class background matters.  Exactly one of my college-educated friends has made a spiel for a MLM to me, but probably 1/3-1/2 of my high school-educated friends and family are involved.

Sadly, this doesn't work for me. I have a friend with a PhD in medicinal chemistry hawking essential oils.
And tons of friends with college degrees selling overpriced mascara.  And lots and lots of friends selling shakes of various sorts.

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #983 on: November 14, 2018, 08:31:37 AM »
Is there anyone else who doesn't run into MLM stuff really ever? I have seen about 5 cars with ads on, and once someone gave me a card after we chatted at a playground. Is it because I'm not on Facebook? The stats say so many Americans are involved, I'm not sure how I've avoided them. Speculation?

I think class background matters.  Exactly one of my college-educated friends has made a spiel for a MLM to me, but probably 1/3-1/2 of my high school-educated friends and family are involved.

I agree.  I have a few people on FB who sell various make up products.  A few of them have straight up said that they only sell so that they can buy at wholesale prices.  I don't know how well that's working out for them.  I'm a little afraid that another one is being sucked into something that's going to be really bad for her.  She's the classic target.  She and her son's dad can't afford for her to work and pay daycare, so she stays home.  She sees this as a way for her to contribute to the household.  I also thinks she sees it as a way that she can justify getting out of the house and using their one car in the evenings/weekends and have actual adult conversations.  I've posted a few things about how MLMs are scams, but haven't actually tagger her in anything.  Just hoping she reads the articles.

Sugaree

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #984 on: November 14, 2018, 08:42:07 AM »
Yep. Betsy DeVos is the US Secretary of Education despite not having attended public schools, not having any background in education, not having sent her children to public schools, and continually undermining public education in her home state by undermining teacher’s unions and shilling for corporate charter schools to line her own pocketbook. As a Michigander, I apologize for the fact that she’s been inflicted on the rest of the country.
At the risk of pulling this thread off topic, I know there was a lot of hoopla when she was first appointed, but other than ending Common Core, I haven't heard much lately from/about from the Dept. of Ed.  Has there been anything coming out of DC on that front?

Not sure how the department of ed can end Common Core since it was never a federal initiative...
States all have the ability to adopt their own standards. (Most have 'adapted' Common Core.)
Well, it was a "hey, adopt Common Core and we'll give you money" sort of deal, as I understand it.  Aaaanyway, back to the topic at hand...

I'm going to stay off topic for just a minute to say that as much shit as people talked about it, my kid is in Kindergarten and I love the Common Core worksheets that he brings home, especially the math worksheets.  I think a big part of the problem was the implementation.  You can't spend 5 years teaching kids one method and then expect that the next year everyone will magically know how to use the "new" method.  It should have been introduced in Kindergarten one year, first grade the next, then second grade, etc. so that the kids get the basis of it.  I suspect that states that didn't really want to adopt CC did a piss-poor job of implementing the change so that they could then go back and say "Hey, this is crap.  See how bad our standardized test scores are now."

We can start a new thread if you want, but the biggest issue most people have with Common Core isn't actually the standards, but curriculum that was designed to meet the standards; which is an entirely separate thing and dozens and dozens of curriculums exist, and none of them were officially put out by the NGA that put out CC.  There is almost nothing in Common Core math that approaches methods of how it has to be taught. (In fact, as far as multiplication goes- standard algorithm is the only one that officially has to be taught, but other methods, like partial products can help support the understanding required in other standards.)


As for MLMs- I'm shockingly not seeing a lot of them on my facebook lately. I think people gave up on me.

https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/off-topic/so-common-core/

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #985 on: November 14, 2018, 08:59:26 AM »
Is there anyone else who doesn't run into MLM stuff really ever? I have seen about 5 cars with ads on, and once someone gave me a card after we chatted at a playground. Is it because I'm not on Facebook? The stats say so many Americans are involved, I'm not sure how I've avoided them. Speculation?

I think class background matters.  Exactly one of my college-educated friends has made a spiel for a MLM to me, but probably 1/3-1/2 of my high school-educated friends and family are involved.

I agree.  I have a few people on FB who sell various make up products.  A few of them have straight up said that they only sell so that they can buy at wholesale prices.  I don't know how well that's working out for them.  I'm a little afraid that another one is being sucked into something that's going to be really bad for her.  She's the classic target.  She and her son's dad can't afford for her to work and pay daycare, so she stays home.  She sees this as a way for her to contribute to the household.  I also thinks she sees it as a way that she can justify getting out of the house and using their one car in the evenings/weekends and have actual adult conversations.  I've posted a few things about how MLMs are scams, but haven't actually tagger her in anything.  Just hoping she reads the articles.

"wholesale"

:(

Sugaree

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #986 on: November 14, 2018, 09:07:45 AM »
Is there anyone else who doesn't run into MLM stuff really ever? I have seen about 5 cars with ads on, and once someone gave me a card after we chatted at a playground. Is it because I'm not on Facebook? The stats say so many Americans are involved, I'm not sure how I've avoided them. Speculation?

I think class background matters.  Exactly one of my college-educated friends has made a spiel for a MLM to me, but probably 1/3-1/2 of my high school-educated friends and family are involved.

I agree.  I have a few people on FB who sell various make up products.  A few of them have straight up said that they only sell so that they can buy at wholesale prices.  I don't know how well that's working out for them.  I'm a little afraid that another one is being sucked into something that's going to be really bad for her.  She's the classic target.  She and her son's dad can't afford for her to work and pay daycare, so she stays home.  She sees this as a way for her to contribute to the household.  I also thinks she sees it as a way that she can justify getting out of the house and using their one car in the evenings/weekends and have actual adult conversations.  I've posted a few things about how MLMs are scams, but haven't actually tagger her in anything.  Just hoping she reads the articles.

"wholesale"

:(

Yeah, I know.

I wear makeup maybe three times a year (which is probably what saves me from a lot of these pitches) so I don't really know a whole lot about it other than what I've read and that's that it's a pretty good product, but expensive. 

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #987 on: November 14, 2018, 09:46:22 AM »
Is there anyone else who doesn't run into MLM stuff really ever? I have seen about 5 cars with ads on, and once someone gave me a card after we chatted at a playground. Is it because I'm not on Facebook? The stats say so many Americans are involved, I'm not sure how I've avoided them. Speculation?

I think class background matters.  Exactly one of my college-educated friends has made a spiel for a MLM to me, but probably 1/3-1/2 of my high school-educated friends and family are involved.

I agree.  I have a few people on FB who sell various make up products.  A few of them have straight up said that they only sell so that they can buy at wholesale prices.  I don't know how well that's working out for them.  I'm a little afraid that another one is being sucked into something that's going to be really bad for her.  She's the classic target.  She and her son's dad can't afford for her to work and pay daycare, so she stays home.  She sees this as a way for her to contribute to the household.  I also thinks she sees it as a way that she can justify getting out of the house and using their one car in the evenings/weekends and have actual adult conversations.  I've posted a few things about how MLMs are scams, but haven't actually tagger her in anything.  Just hoping she reads the articles.

"wholesale"

:(

It could make sense for someone who "does makeup" as a significant side gig. I'm thinking about people who own boutiques, who sell makeup services to the Wedding Industrial Complex, who want a reason to up-charge because the mainstream stuff from a beauty supply company doesn't make the bride feel special enough.

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #988 on: November 14, 2018, 10:12:55 AM »
Is there anyone else who doesn't run into MLM stuff really ever? I have seen about 5 cars with ads on, and once someone gave me a card after we chatted at a playground. Is it because I'm not on Facebook? The stats say so many Americans are involved, I'm not sure how I've avoided them. Speculation?

I think class background matters.  Exactly one of my college-educated friends has made a spiel for a MLM to me, but probably 1/3-1/2 of my high school-educated friends and family are involved.

I agree.  I have a few people on FB who sell various make up products.  A few of them have straight up said that they only sell so that they can buy at wholesale prices.  I don't know how well that's working out for them.  I'm a little afraid that another one is being sucked into something that's going to be really bad for her.  She's the classic target.  She and her son's dad can't afford for her to work and pay daycare, so she stays home.  She sees this as a way for her to contribute to the household.  I also thinks she sees it as a way that she can justify getting out of the house and using their one car in the evenings/weekends and have actual adult conversations.  I've posted a few things about how MLMs are scams, but haven't actually tagger her in anything.  Just hoping she reads the articles.

"wholesale"

:(

It could make sense for someone who "does makeup" as a significant side gig. I'm thinking about people who own boutiques, who sell makeup services to the Wedding Industrial Complex, who want a reason to up-charge because the mainstream stuff from a beauty supply company doesn't make the bride feel special enough.

I was just pointing out that consultants don't buy from MLMs at "wholesale" prices. Consultants are the main customers. The profit is made by the company when they sell to the consultant.

Sugaree

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #989 on: November 14, 2018, 10:24:44 AM »
Is there anyone else who doesn't run into MLM stuff really ever? I have seen about 5 cars with ads on, and once someone gave me a card after we chatted at a playground. Is it because I'm not on Facebook? The stats say so many Americans are involved, I'm not sure how I've avoided them. Speculation?

I think class background matters.  Exactly one of my college-educated friends has made a spiel for a MLM to me, but probably 1/3-1/2 of my high school-educated friends and family are involved.

I agree.  I have a few people on FB who sell various make up products.  A few of them have straight up said that they only sell so that they can buy at wholesale prices.  I don't know how well that's working out for them.  I'm a little afraid that another one is being sucked into something that's going to be really bad for her.  She's the classic target.  She and her son's dad can't afford for her to work and pay daycare, so she stays home.  She sees this as a way for her to contribute to the household.  I also thinks she sees it as a way that she can justify getting out of the house and using their one car in the evenings/weekends and have actual adult conversations.  I've posted a few things about how MLMs are scams, but haven't actually tagger her in anything.  Just hoping she reads the articles.

"wholesale"

:(

It could make sense for someone who "does makeup" as a significant side gig. I'm thinking about people who own boutiques, who sell makeup services to the Wedding Industrial Complex, who want a reason to up-charge because the mainstream stuff from a beauty supply company doesn't make the bride feel special enough.

I was just pointing out that consultants don't buy from MLMs at "wholesale" prices. Consultants are the main customers. The profit is made by the company when they sell to the consultant.

You have a point.  Maybe "buying at a discount" is a better term.  Though, I might argue that pretty much any business that buys a product with a profit margin of less than 100% is also not paying "wholesale." 

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #990 on: November 14, 2018, 12:04:03 PM »
Is there anyone else who doesn't run into MLM stuff really ever? I have seen about 5 cars with ads on, and once someone gave me a card after we chatted at a playground. Is it because I'm not on Facebook? The stats say so many Americans are involved, I'm not sure how I've avoided them. Speculation?

I think class background matters.  Exactly one of my college-educated friends has made a spiel for a MLM to me, but probably 1/3-1/2 of my high school-educated friends and family are involved.

I agree.  I have a few people on FB who sell various make up products.  A few of them have straight up said that they only sell so that they can buy at wholesale prices.  I don't know how well that's working out for them.  I'm a little afraid that another one is being sucked into something that's going to be really bad for her.  She's the classic target.  She and her son's dad can't afford for her to work and pay daycare, so she stays home.  She sees this as a way for her to contribute to the household.  I also thinks she sees it as a way that she can justify getting out of the house and using their one car in the evenings/weekends and have actual adult conversations.  I've posted a few things about how MLMs are scams, but haven't actually tagger her in anything.  Just hoping she reads the articles.

"wholesale"

:(

It could make sense for someone who "does makeup" as a significant side gig. I'm thinking about people who own boutiques, who sell makeup services to the Wedding Industrial Complex, who want a reason to up-charge because the mainstream stuff from a beauty supply company doesn't make the bride feel special enough.

I was just pointing out that consultants don't buy from MLMs at "wholesale" prices. Consultants are the main customers. The profit is made by the company when they sell to the consultant.

You have a point.  Maybe "buying at a discount" is a better term.  Though, I might argue that pretty much any business that buys a product with a profit margin of less than 100% is also not paying "wholesale."

I thought wholesale was any purchase made with the intent of reselling, as in, not retail? That would make the usage here correct. However, sellers almost certainly are not getting the deal they think they're getting. Some people seem to think wholesale = cost to manufacture + a small margin. In reality it's like any other sale; they charge as much as they think you'll pay.

zolotiyeruki

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #991 on: November 14, 2018, 12:12:29 PM »
The lady who runs "mommygyver" and spent a lot of effort showing Lularoe for what it is has been in a long legal fight (they are trying to get her sources for the information she has been given, and, as a journalist, she's fighting it).  You can still read at least some of her posts on LLR on her site, but it's not as easy to get to as it was before.

https://www.mommygyver.com/mommyblog-1/category/LuLaRoe/page/8  I linked to the older posts so you can work your way through the timeline if interested.
FWIW, MAP (Minimum Advertised Pricing, the topic of mommygyver's post on that page) gets a lot of negative comments, but it's actually really important to a manufacturer.  Because if you allow a dealer to sell below MAP, it reduces *all* dealers' ability to make a profit, and so all those dealers won't want to carry your product.  If you're a manufacturer trying to gain market penetration, taking care of your dealers is critical.  An extreme example would be a large retailer with slim margins (say, Amazon or Walmart) undercutting all the mom & pop stores.

MgoSam

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #992 on: November 14, 2018, 12:26:28 PM »
Is there anyone else who doesn't run into MLM stuff really ever? I have seen about 5 cars with ads on, and once someone gave me a card after we chatted at a playground. Is it because I'm not on Facebook? The stats say so many Americans are involved, I'm not sure how I've avoided them. Speculation?

I think class background matters.  Exactly one of my college-educated friends has made a spiel for a MLM to me, but probably 1/3-1/2 of my high school-educated friends and family are involved.

I agree.  I have a few people on FB who sell various make up products.  A few of them have straight up said that they only sell so that they can buy at wholesale prices.  I don't know how well that's working out for them.  I'm a little afraid that another one is being sucked into something that's going to be really bad for her.  She's the classic target.  She and her son's dad can't afford for her to work and pay daycare, so she stays home.  She sees this as a way for her to contribute to the household.  I also thinks she sees it as a way that she can justify getting out of the house and using their one car in the evenings/weekends and have actual adult conversations.  I've posted a few things about how MLMs are scams, but haven't actually tagger her in anything.  Just hoping she reads the articles.

"wholesale"

:(

It could make sense for someone who "does makeup" as a significant side gig. I'm thinking about people who own boutiques, who sell makeup services to the Wedding Industrial Complex, who want a reason to up-charge because the mainstream stuff from a beauty supply company doesn't make the bride feel special enough.

I was just pointing out that consultants don't buy from MLMs at "wholesale" prices. Consultants are the main customers. The profit is made by the company when they sell to the consultant.

You have a point.  Maybe "buying at a discount" is a better term.  Though, I might argue that pretty much any business that buys a product with a profit margin of less than 100% is also not paying "wholesale."

I thought wholesale was any purchase made with the intent of reselling, as in, not retail? That would make the usage here correct. However, sellers almost certainly are not getting the deal they think they're getting. Some people seem to think wholesale = cost to manufacture + a small margin. In reality it's like any other sale; they charge as much as they think you'll pay.

I'm a wholesaler, buying someone 'wholesale,' essentially just means that you are buying it from a wholesaler. Generally speaking it is in a wholesaler's advantage to sell their products to distributors and retailers at a discount from the retail price, thus they can make a profit selling it and come back for more.

Way too many people think 'wholsale pricing,' is necessarily good.

Just Joe

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #993 on: November 16, 2018, 07:52:04 AM »
That podcast is really interesting. Well done too. I'm on the third episode.

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #994 on: November 16, 2018, 07:57:07 AM »
Is there anyone else who doesn't run into MLM stuff really ever? I have seen about 5 cars with ads on, and once someone gave me a card after we chatted at a playground. Is it because I'm not on Facebook? The stats say so many Americans are involved, I'm not sure how I've avoided them. Speculation?

I think class background matters.  Exactly one of my college-educated friends has made a spiel for a MLM to me, but probably 1/3-1/2 of my high school-educated friends and family are involved.

I agree.  I have a few people on FB who sell various make up products.  A few of them have straight up said that they only sell so that they can buy at wholesale prices.  I don't know how well that's working out for them.  I'm a little afraid that another one is being sucked into something that's going to be really bad for her.  She's the classic target.  She and her son's dad can't afford for her to work and pay daycare, so she stays home.  She sees this as a way for her to contribute to the household.  I also thinks she sees it as a way that she can justify getting out of the house and using their one car in the evenings/weekends and have actual adult conversations.  I've posted a few things about how MLMs are scams, but haven't actually tagger her in anything.  Just hoping she reads the articles.

"wholesale"

:(

It could make sense for someone who "does makeup" as a significant side gig. I'm thinking about people who own boutiques, who sell makeup services to the Wedding Industrial Complex, who want a reason to up-charge because the mainstream stuff from a beauty supply company doesn't make the bride feel special enough.

I was just pointing out that consultants don't buy from MLMs at "wholesale" prices. Consultants are the main customers. The profit is made by the company when they sell to the consultant.

You have a point.  Maybe "buying at a discount" is a better term.  Though, I might argue that pretty much any business that buys a product with a profit margin of less than 100% is also not paying "wholesale."

I thought wholesale was any purchase made with the intent of reselling, as in, not retail? That would make the usage here correct. However, sellers almost certainly are not getting the deal they think they're getting. Some people seem to think wholesale = cost to manufacture + a small margin. In reality it's like any other sale; they charge as much as they think you'll pay.

I would assume the wholesaler is the person selling the product to the MLM, who then sells it to the distributors.

Also, if you are just buying for the discount, you aren't buying with intent to resell. So the usage doesn't seem right.


zolotiyeruki

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #996 on: November 20, 2018, 02:30:26 PM »
So... poor quality, receiving lawsuits, people leaving in droves, not paying their bills...   Are we sure LulaRoe isn't the State of Illinois? :P

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #997 on: November 21, 2018, 09:09:59 PM »
if any MMMers are IT admins, here's an uplifting article to help humanity from the MLM scum:

https://www.reddit.com/r/antiMLM/comments/9z4vp4/i_am_in_charge_of_our_web_and_spam_filters_at_work/

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #998 on: November 27, 2018, 05:29:21 PM »
Irony, listening to "The Dream" on an airplane going home, then getting off the plane and walking under a "Welcome" sign from one of the biggest MLMs in the world.  Yup my thoughts on the company are "it's complicated."  The actual company and it's founders other business, not the MLM part, are a huge economic driver in my town.

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #999 on: November 28, 2018, 07:48:43 PM »
I started listening to The Dream a couple of months ago, then caught up over the weekend. The episode about the Limelight convention, the people sharing stories about economic despair, the tightrope that is their lives, even potential suicide, it's alarming. The Dream has one episode left to publish, I believe.