Author Topic: No, I won't buy into your MLM  (Read 480277 times)

robartsd

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #450 on: September 27, 2017, 03:08:55 PM »
I've used my credit card to pay for things and found later they were billing me every month. Now I am extremely wary of using a credit card for anything, any reason. Some companies will charge you for things, without your authorization. They will milk the card as often as they can. Many customers may never notice the charges on their bill.
I use a credit card for as much as I can to get the 2+% cash back rewards. I've never had someone billing me for something I didn't order or subscribe to. I agree that subscriptions can be a pain to cancel.

ixtap

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #451 on: September 27, 2017, 03:12:19 PM »
I've used my credit card to pay for things and found later they were billing me every month. Now I am extremely wary of using a credit card for anything, any reason. Some companies will charge you for things, without your authorization. They will milk the card as often as they can. Many customers may never notice the charges on their bill.
I use a credit card for as much as I can to get the 2+% cash back rewards. I've never had someone billing me for something I didn't order or subscribe to. I agree that subscriptions can be a pain to cancel.

I once had a subscription that I could not cancel. I had the CC company stop payment, instead.

lifeisanadventure

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #452 on: September 28, 2017, 03:59:58 AM »
A friend started an MLM in skincare and wanted me to have a party.  When I found out a package containing a small bottle of shampoo and conditioner cost $85 I politely declined.

A friend had a Tupperware party and I went along just to get the attendance numbers up..I had strictly told her I would not be buying.  She was absolutely ok with that.  The Tupperware consultant, however, was not.  She was so cranky I didn't buy anything.  I got the look and she wouldn't talk to me.  Plus the party went for an hour + and for a large part of that we played 'games' and for some reason everyone took them so seriously.  It was incredibly boring and very very competitive and snarky.

rockstache

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #453 on: September 28, 2017, 07:23:00 AM »
I've used my credit card to pay for things and found later they were billing me every month. Now I am extremely wary of using a credit card for anything, any reason. Some companies will charge you for things, without your authorization. They will milk the card as often as they can. Many customers may never notice the charges on their bill.
I use a credit card for as much as I can to get the 2+% cash back rewards. I've never had someone billing me for something I didn't order or subscribe to. I agree that subscriptions can be a pain to cancel.

I once had a subscription that I could not cancel. I had the CC company stop payment, instead.

+1   I use a credit card for absolutely everything I can. There is a lot of protection there.

robartsd

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #454 on: September 28, 2017, 08:35:45 AM »
I use a credit card for as much as I can to get the 2+% cash back rewards. I've never had someone billing me for something I didn't order or subscribe to. I agree that subscriptions can be a pain to cancel.

I once had a subscription that I could not cancel. I had the CC company stop payment, instead.

+1   I use a credit card for absolutely everything I can. There is a lot of protection there.
I agree, a credit card (reconciled and paid off each billing cycle) is a great way to protect yourself when paying for things. I do sometimes use cash (and very rarely write a check). I also use online bill pay for reoccuring payments that don't accept credit cards. However I've never used a debit card (except for ATM transactions with PIN). Unauthorized charge on credit card - dispute the charge and never have to pay (unless the bank is convinced that you did authorize the charge); unauthorized charge on debit card - wait until bank resolves the issue before money is returned to your account.

YogiKitti

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #455 on: September 29, 2017, 06:51:08 PM »
I had an acquaintance call MY HUSBAND to ask me what type of business she should get for her nail stickers MLM she was starting (well after the newness of the fad wore off). She really thought she was going to make so much money that she would need to incorporate. First, if you have a question for me ask ME! I told her to wait a year and see how much money she actually made 

Chesleygirl

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #456 on: September 30, 2017, 11:06:00 AM »
I agree, a credit card (reconciled and paid off each billing cycle) is a great way to protect yourself when paying for things. I do sometimes use cash (and very rarely write a check). I also use online bill pay for reoccuring payments that don't accept credit cards. However I've never used a debit card (except for ATM transactions with PIN). Unauthorized charge on credit card - dispute the charge and never have to pay (unless the bank is convinced that you did authorize the charge); unauthorized charge on debit card - wait until bank resolves the issue before money is returned to your account.

That's why Dave Ramsey is wrong to tell people to never, ever use a credit card.

RWD

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #457 on: September 30, 2017, 11:28:10 AM »
I agree, a credit card (reconciled and paid off each billing cycle) is a great way to protect yourself when paying for things. I do sometimes use cash (and very rarely write a check). I also use online bill pay for reoccuring payments that don't accept credit cards. However I've never used a debit card (except for ATM transactions with PIN). Unauthorized charge on credit card - dispute the charge and never have to pay (unless the bank is convinced that you did authorize the charge); unauthorized charge on debit card - wait until bank resolves the issue before money is returned to your account.

That's why Dave Ramsey is wrong to tell people to never, ever use a credit card.

That and other reasons, like cash back rewards.

Goldielocks

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #458 on: September 30, 2017, 02:23:36 PM »
I had an acquaintance call MY HUSBAND to ask me what type of business she should get for her nail stickers MLM she was starting (well after the newness of the fad wore off). She really thought she was going to make so much money that she would need to incorporate. First, if you have a question for me ask ME! I told her to wait a year and see how much money she actually made

HMM,  don't MLM's usually need a city business license to run a business, especially with on-line and sales components, out of their home?  You have me thinking...

Chesleygirl

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #459 on: October 01, 2017, 10:05:08 AM »
I had an acquaintance call MY HUSBAND to ask me what type of business she should get for her nail stickers MLM she was starting (well after the newness of the fad wore off). She really thought she was going to make so much money that she would need to incorporate. First, if you have a question for me ask ME! I told her to wait a year and see how much money she actually made

HMM,  don't MLM's usually need a city business license to run a business, especially with on-line and sales components, out of their home?  You have me thinking...

No, she wouldn't need a business license or need to incorporate anything. The business she's in has already been incorporated, by someone else. This is what people in MLMs simply don't get! They are not entrepreneurs and they aren't starting a business. They are selling stuff for a business that someone else started and is running.  In fact, if you want the literal term for these people, they are really just customers. They are buying inventory and if they can't re-sell it, they're stuck with it. To be brutally honest, these people are very, very dumb to think they are entrepreneurs who start a business. Even a kid setting up a lemonade stand is more of an entrepreneur than they are.

ixtap

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #460 on: October 01, 2017, 10:08:59 AM »
Evidently, there is an MLM that sells toothpaste?

One of the most strident MLMers I know is a nun.

Travis

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #461 on: October 01, 2017, 10:51:25 AM »
I had an acquaintance call MY HUSBAND to ask me what type of business she should get for her nail stickers MLM she was starting (well after the newness of the fad wore off). She really thought she was going to make so much money that she would need to incorporate. First, if you have a question for me ask ME! I told her to wait a year and see how much money she actually made

HMM,  don't MLM's usually need a city business license to run a business, especially with on-line and sales components, out of their home?  You have me thinking...

No, she wouldn't need a business license or need to incorporate anything. The business she's in has already been incorporated, by someone else. This is what people in MLMs simply don't get! They are not entrepreneurs and they aren't starting a business. They are selling stuff for a business that someone else started and is running.  In fact, if you want the literal term for these people, they are really just customers. They are buying inventory and if they can't re-sell it, they're stuck with it. To be brutally honest, these people are very, very dumb to think they are entrepreneurs who start a business. Even a kid setting up a lemonade stand is more of an entrepreneur than they are.

But they're self-employed CEOs. They said so on Linkedin!

sparkytheop

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #462 on: October 01, 2017, 11:01:38 AM »
I know a lady who is a "Beach Body Coach".  She posts a lot of workout selfies and hosts "accountability groups", but doesn't push the selling anything, and is honest that if you're going to ask for a recommendation for a workout routine, that she's going to suggest a beach body one.

Anyway, it made me curious, so I looked up the price of the shakes.  $130 for a 30 day supply.  WTF?!  Of course, the reasoning is "all those nutrients, you'll never get that many on your own!"  That's pretty much half my grocery budget for the month (for two people, minus bulk meat).  Why in the world would a shake mix be so expensive?

sparkytheop

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #463 on: October 01, 2017, 11:04:26 AM »
I had an acquaintance call MY HUSBAND to ask me what type of business she should get for her nail stickers MLM she was starting (well after the newness of the fad wore off). She really thought she was going to make so much money that she would need to incorporate. First, if you have a question for me ask ME! I told her to wait a year and see how much money she actually made

HMM,  don't MLM's usually need a city business license to run a business, especially with on-line and sales components, out of their home?  You have me thinking...

No, she wouldn't need a business license or need to incorporate anything. The business she's in has already been incorporated, by someone else. This is what people in MLMs simply don't get! They are not entrepreneurs and they aren't starting a business. They are selling stuff for a business that someone else started and is running.  In fact, if you want the literal term for these people, they are really just customers. They are buying inventory and if they can't re-sell it, they're stuck with it. To be brutally honest, these people are very, very dumb to think they are entrepreneurs who start a business. Even a kid setting up a lemonade stand is more of an entrepreneur than they are.

I almost typed this exact reply.  There is already real business license.  And a real CEO.  And it's not the SAHM schilling the wares.  They are distributors/salesmen with a flexible schedule, not "business owners", "bosses", "CEOs".

Goldielocks

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #464 on: October 01, 2017, 04:20:15 PM »
I had an acquaintance call MY HUSBAND to ask me what type of business she should get for her nail stickers MLM she was starting (well after the newness of the fad wore off). She really thought she was going to make so much money that she would need to incorporate. First, if you have a question for me ask ME! I told her to wait a year and see how much money she actually made

HMM,  don't MLM's usually need a city business license to run a business, especially with on-line and sales components, out of their home?  You have me thinking...

No, she wouldn't need a business license or need to incorporate anything. The business she's in has already been incorporated, by someone else. This is what people in MLMs simply don't get! They are not entrepreneurs and they aren't starting a business. They are selling stuff for a business that someone else started and is running.  In fact, if you want the literal term for these people, they are really just customers. They are buying inventory and if they can't re-sell it, they're stuck with it. To be brutally honest, these people are very, very dumb to think they are entrepreneurs who start a business. Even a kid setting up a lemonade stand is more of an entrepreneur than they are.

I know what you are saying -- that would be a great response to a woman touting #girlboss -- "how much did your business license cost?"...

 But..., don't most people need a business license to sell items (repeatedly) from their homes... (city license, not about business structure). 
My DH did, and he mostly drop shipped electric bike parts, and sold about 5 units a month from our garage.   I do, I sell my services  and no one even comes to my home.  A photographer with a home studio or meeting clients to sell services needs one, etc....

Hmmm... gets me thinking about more than just MLMs, then.. but about some of the "work from home" commission sales roles and such.   The produce broker I know has a business license (100% work from home, yet no one goes to his home nor goods), but not the sales rep that works for a company selling industrial sensors (he takes the company van and travels to client sites to do the selling there, but calls them from home office, paperwork at home, etc).

Anyone know the general rule of thumb when one needs (or is supposed to get) a city business license to work from home?

Chesleygirl

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #465 on: October 01, 2017, 05:07:25 PM »

Anyway, it made me curious, so I looked up the price of the shakes.  $130 for a 30 day supply. 

Price has gone way up then. Those 30 day shake supplies used to be around $90-100.

And they taste terrible.

Chesleygirl

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #466 on: October 01, 2017, 05:09:55 PM »
Anyone know the general rule of thumb when one needs (or is supposed to get) a city business license to work from home?

Lots of people work from home and if they work for an employer, they probably don't need a license of any sort. Why would they? It's not like anyone knows what they're doing in their house. I work from home and don't have any kind of license.

People who cook things and sell them from their own kitchen, often have to get a license in some states. And have to get their kitchen inspected, too. That's only one example I can think of.


Goldielocks

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #467 on: October 01, 2017, 05:34:05 PM »
Anyone know the general rule of thumb when one needs (or is supposed to get) a city business license to work from home?

Lots of people work from home and if they work for an employer, they probably don't need a license of any sort. Why would they? It's not like anyone knows what they're doing in their house. I work from home and don't have any kind of license.

People who cook things and sell them from their own kitchen, often have to get a license in some states. And have to get their kitchen inspected, too. That's only one example I can think of.

Okay, I was very curious, so I looked up the local reg's...

"Business" means the carrying on of a commercial or industrial
undertaking of any kind or nature, or the providing of
professional, personal or other services for the purpose of
gain or profit;

Except as hereinafter provided, no person shall carry on a business within the
Municipality, without holding a valid and subsisting licence for the
business so carried on.

.....
I would guess that if you are an employee of a business with a license, that you don't need your own license...  BUT.. the bylaw states that a multiple location license is needed if you operate in more than one location, and that a license is required for every city.  (we live in a greater area that has several municipalities)...

So, for a MLM, someone in the upper levels of the MLM would need to have a license that covers you in your location...and covers multiple offices being allowed..(especially if sales occur from the homes).    If not, then you are required to get a license, or face the chance of a $500 fine (per day) until you get one.

That would be a great question for the upline, anyway.

robartsd

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #468 on: October 02, 2017, 08:31:55 AM »
But..., don't most people need a business license to sell items (repeatedly) from their homes... (city license, not about business structure). 
My DH did, and he mostly drop shipped electric bike parts, and sold about 5 units a month from our garage.   I do, I sell my services  and no one even comes to my home.  A photographer with a home studio or meeting clients to sell services needs one, etc....
Depending on the city, they might need a licenses if they have customers coming to their home to purchase things. If they are working from home, but don't have customers regularly coming to their home to purchase things, the business license of the MLM should be enough if valid in their state. Since most of the time they go to client homes to host "parties", most MLM "businesses" are not regularly selling from their home.

I'm a red panda

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #469 on: October 02, 2017, 08:39:36 AM »

That would be a great question for the upline, anyway.

"Your" upline won't know anything. 

/my experience with a few MLMs

Goldielocks

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #470 on: October 02, 2017, 09:33:12 AM »
But..., don't most people need a business license to sell items (repeatedly) from their homes... (city license, not about business structure). 
My DH did, and he mostly drop shipped electric bike parts, and sold about 5 units a month from our garage.   I do, I sell my services  and no one even comes to my home.  A photographer with a home studio or meeting clients to sell services needs one, etc....
Depending on the city, they might need a licenses if they have customers coming to their home to purchase things. If they are working from home, but don't have customers regularly coming to their home to purchase things, the business license of the MLM should be enough if valid in their state. Since most of the time they go to client homes to host "parties", most MLM "businesses" are not regularly selling from their home.

At the end of the day, I guess that the answer is "for profit".. 
On line sales reps and home-based businesses that don't employ others also require a city license to operate, but not charities or if you are selling goods (garage sale once a year) at a loss.

If it is generally accepted that MLMs do not make profit at that (home) location, then a reps don't need a license to operate.

solon

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #471 on: October 02, 2017, 09:51:43 AM »
But..., don't most people need a business license to sell items (repeatedly) from their homes... (city license, not about business structure). 
My DH did, and he mostly drop shipped electric bike parts, and sold about 5 units a month from our garage.   I do, I sell my services  and no one even comes to my home.  A photographer with a home studio or meeting clients to sell services needs one, etc....
Depending on the city, they might need a licenses if they have customers coming to their home to purchase things. If they are working from home, but don't have customers regularly coming to their home to purchase things, the business license of the MLM should be enough if valid in their state. Since most of the time they go to client homes to host "parties", most MLM "businesses" are not regularly selling from their home.

At the end of the day, I guess that the answer is "for profit".. 
On line sales reps and home-based businesses that don't employ others also require a city license to operate, but not charities or if you are selling goods (garage sale once a year) at a loss.

If it is generally accepted that MLMs do not make profit at that (home) location, then a reps don't need a license to operate.

That's pretty sad. "You don't need a license because you're not going to make any money."

BJacks

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #472 on: October 02, 2017, 11:26:02 AM »
A friend of mine just switched from Isagenix to Usborne Books. She posted on facebook yesterday that if she gets X amount more in orders placed she won't have to pay for her 'kit'. She had a couple people help her out and then next thing I know she's inviting me to an online party. Ugh.

I like books, but my kids go to the library and honestly if I'm going to buy something it's going to be at our local used bookstore or Costco.

She isn't super pushy but it just makes me shake my head because I can't understand the draw of something that to me is obviously a terrible idea/plan.

Her husband works six days a week, long hours, so that she can stay home with their kids and I just see it all as sabotaging his efforts for their family.

saguaro

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #473 on: October 02, 2017, 11:57:16 AM »
Years ago, I started a new job and one of my coworkers asked me to meet her for a chat in the lunchroom.  I thought it was work related but no, it was a pitch for her MLM though I forget what it was.    Turns out that workplace was a hotbed of people selling everything from their kid's school fundraising to MLM's to their own side business (one guy did have his own brand of barbeque sauce that was quite good tbh).  You were constantly approached by someone hawking their wares, whether it was to contribute to something, buy something or go in with someone on something, and it was disruptive enough that the company finally enacted a policy restricting it, not forbidding it outright, but their restrictions had the same result.   A lot of griping and grumbling but it was a relief to me as I was one of the few mustachian people to say no to everything and now it saved me the trouble. 

I never go to things like Tupperware parties these days, in fact, I can count doing it only twice.  Once in college just to experience it (still have the breadbasket I bought at that party) and another time a few years ago when a friend hosted a Pampered Chef party.  I only did the latter strictly to support my friend who lost her newborn grandchild recently and the party was a way to take her mind off things, so I decided this was not the time to be a party pooper.
« Last Edit: October 02, 2017, 04:00:47 PM by saguaro »

MgoSam

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #474 on: October 02, 2017, 12:12:26 PM »
I like books, but my kids go to the library and honestly if I'm going to buy something it's going to be at our local used bookstore or Costco.
Kills me how many people don't use the library. My sister's husband commented when he was here over the summer that, "You're the only non-parent adult I know that actually uses the library." I just shook my head at that, it seems to him that the only reason anyone would use the library is to get the endless children's books. I read over 60 books a year and would quickly run out of shelf space if I bought a tenth of them. This also explains why he and his wife (my sister) think it would be insane for me to retire on anything less than a $5M nest egg.
 

Travis

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #475 on: October 02, 2017, 01:14:33 PM »
A friend of mine just switched from Isagenix to Usborne Books. She posted on facebook yesterday that if she gets X amount more in orders placed she won't have to pay for her 'kit'. She had a couple people help her out and then next thing I know she's inviting me to an online party. Ugh.


If you require the charity of others to break even as a milestone, you might want to rethink your business strategy.

Chesleygirl

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #476 on: October 02, 2017, 02:28:00 PM »
A friend of mine just switched from Isagenix to Usborne Books. She posted on facebook yesterday that if she gets X amount more in orders placed she won't have to pay for her 'kit'. She had a couple people help her out and then next thing I know she's inviting me to an online party. Ugh.

I like books, but my kids go to the library and honestly if I'm going to buy something it's going to be at our local used bookstore or Costco.

I got invited to one of those stupid online "parties" for Usborne. I didn't even bother explaining that books are a waste of money. My 2 year olds just rip them apart (yes, even the board books). Books clutter our home and we tend to read, then donate. If I need to get children books I get them from the library when they are older. It cost ZERO dollars to rent from the library.  Usborne requires you to get monthly shipments and you pay around $50 a month for a "book club membership" that's about $600 because you're in a contract for at least a year. I couldn't be more stupid than to budget $600 this year just for purchasing books.

mm1970

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #477 on: October 02, 2017, 03:10:38 PM »
A friend of mine just switched from Isagenix to Usborne Books. She posted on facebook yesterday that if she gets X amount more in orders placed she won't have to pay for her 'kit'. She had a couple people help her out and then next thing I know she's inviting me to an online party. Ugh.

I like books, but my kids go to the library and honestly if I'm going to buy something it's going to be at our local used bookstore or Costco.

I got invited to one of those stupid online "parties" for Usborne. I didn't even bother explaining that books are a waste of money. My 2 year olds just rip them apart (yes, even the board books). Books clutter our home and we tend to read, then donate. If I need to get children books I get them from the library when they are older. It cost ZERO dollars to rent from the library.  Usborne requires you to get monthly shipments and you pay around $50 a month for a "book club membership" that's about $600 because you're in a contract for at least a year. I couldn't be more stupid than to budget $600 this year just for purchasing books.
My cousin got into the Usborne books thing right when she had a baby.  I felt a little bad for her, as she had gotten laid off from her teaching job RIGHT when she was going on maternity leave.  (Private Catholic school with shitty nuns in charge.  They let a few people go, replaced them, they quit in protest...anyway, it's a huge mess and 2 years later they are talking about shutting down the school.)

Anyway, my younger son is 3 years older, so great time to buy books!  Except: no.  We still had all the kiddie books from kid #1 (mostly gifts and hand me downs), AND we signed him up for the Dolly Parton reading library thing.  We've got shelves and shelves of kid books that are great.  We read to him, he's 5 and starting to read on his own. Love them.  If I remember correctly we didn't start hitting up the library with kid #1 until second grade when he mowed through all of the Magic Treehouse that we'd bought or received (30 of them) and then started getting them from the library.

infogoon

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #478 on: October 03, 2017, 06:16:28 AM »
Kills me how many people don't use the library. My sister's husband commented when he was here over the summer that, "You're the only non-parent adult I know that actually uses the library." I just shook my head at that, it seems to him that the only reason anyone would use the library is to get the endless children's books. I read over 60 books a year and would quickly run out of shelf space if I bought a tenth of them. This also explains why he and his wife (my sister) think it would be insane for me to retire on anything less than a $5M nest egg.

One of the things I miss most about working in higher ed is access to the campus library. Not only was it already well-stocked, but they had a budget specifically for faculty and staff requests; literally any book I wanted, I just had to email the ISBN to a librarian and I'd have it in a week or less. Amazing.

mm1970

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #479 on: October 03, 2017, 10:50:53 AM »
I know a lady who is a "Beach Body Coach".  She posts a lot of workout selfies and hosts "accountability groups", but doesn't push the selling anything, and is honest that if you're going to ask for a recommendation for a workout routine, that she's going to suggest a beach body one.

Anyway, it made me curious, so I looked up the price of the shakes.  $130 for a 30 day supply.  WTF?!  Of course, the reasoning is "all those nutrients, you'll never get that many on your own!"  That's pretty much half my grocery budget for the month (for two people, minus bulk meat).  Why in the world would a shake mix be so expensive?
It's not really that expensive.  What's built into the cost is that's how they pay their "coaches".

So, step #1 for a coach making money: Get someone to buy a "challenge pack" - a workout with the shakes on home delivery.
The "coach" gets a 25% commission for that.  So if someone gets the shake and likes it, they get $32.50.
But wait, there's more!  If the coach convinces the customer to become a coach - then the coach pays a monthly fee to be a coach but gets the 25% discount.
Thus, the "new coach" gets the shakes for $97.50 (25% discount) AND their coach gets $32.50.  That brings the actual cost of the shakes down to $65.

Of course there's this whole other "bonus" schedule that I never bothered to figure out, so the actual costs of the shakes has to be much less than that in order to make a profit and pay people for having a bigger "downline".

The only reason I know some of this is because I bought a Beachbody program after kid #2 was born, and it came with the shakes.  I actually really liked the program - still do it.  The shakes actually tasted pretty good (but only the chocolate), and they were helpful for losing the baby weight.  (Nothing magic about them, just that they made meal planning easier.)  I was a coach for awhile to get the discount.

All in all, I like their workouts - they actually have a streaming service right now for approx $99 a year.  I don't really know how they are going to maintain momentum for their "coaches".  You can literally have access to all the workouts on line for $99 a year.  No need to buy DVDs, shakes, supplements, or whatever.  In the last few years I've known many coaches who have faded away and dropped out - and some were pretty successful at it.  But the market got saturated, and streaming took over DVDs (at least you could make a commission on a DVD, not sure if there is any on the streaming service).  It's a side gig for most, and the only people I know who still work at it are actual health professionals - certified personal trainers or nutritionists or people who own gyms or karate studios (where they can run free challenge groups). 

jinga nation

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #480 on: October 03, 2017, 11:07:31 AM »
A friend of mine just switched from Isagenix to Usborne Books. She posted on facebook yesterday that if she gets X amount more in orders placed she won't have to pay for her 'kit'. She had a couple people help her out and then next thing I know she's inviting me to an online party. Ugh.

I like books, but my kids go to the library and honestly if I'm going to buy something it's going to be at our local used bookstore or Costco.

I got invited to one of those stupid online "parties" for Usborne. I didn't even bother explaining that books are a waste of money. My 2 year olds just rip them apart (yes, even the board books). Books clutter our home and we tend to read, then donate. If I need to get children books I get them from the library when they are older. It cost ZERO dollars to rent from the library.  Usborne requires you to get monthly shipments and you pay around $50 a month for a "book club membership" that's about $600 because you're in a contract for at least a year. I couldn't be more stupid than to budget $600 this year just for purchasing books.
It seems that people don't look at their annual property tax bills. Ours have a line item for libraries. So we're already paying for the library, so why not use it? There's tons of online resources to use too, like eBooks, magazines, etc.

MgoSam

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #481 on: October 03, 2017, 11:33:01 AM »
Kills me how many people don't use the library. My sister's husband commented when he was here over the summer that, "You're the only non-parent adult I know that actually uses the library." I just shook my head at that, it seems to him that the only reason anyone would use the library is to get the endless children's books. I read over 60 books a year and would quickly run out of shelf space if I bought a tenth of them. This also explains why he and his wife (my sister) think it would be insane for me to retire on anything less than a $5M nest egg.

One of the things I miss most about working in higher ed is access to the campus library. Not only was it already well-stocked, but they had a budget specifically for faculty and staff requests; literally any book I wanted, I just had to email the ISBN to a librarian and I'd have it in a week or less. Amazing.

Yeah that's amazing! I wish my library could get any book I wanted as there are a ton that they don't stock.

I can understand someone not using the library if they are far away or their local one is inadequate but my sister's husband is a professor at an extremely well-regarded university. I'm guessing he can get access to just about any book that he, my sister, or any of their kids could want. Knowing that universities can bring in any ISBN that is requested makes me even more puzzled as to why he wouldn't take advantage of such a thing. But oh well, his money.

sparkytheop

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #482 on: October 03, 2017, 11:34:32 AM »
I know a lady who is a "Beach Body Coach".  She posts a lot of workout selfies and hosts "accountability groups", but doesn't push the selling anything, and is honest that if you're going to ask for a recommendation for a workout routine, that she's going to suggest a beach body one.

Anyway, it made me curious, so I looked up the price of the shakes.  $130 for a 30 day supply.  WTF?!  Of course, the reasoning is "all those nutrients, you'll never get that many on your own!"  That's pretty much half my grocery budget for the month (for two people, minus bulk meat).  Why in the world would a shake mix be so expensive?
It's not really that expensive. 

But it is, if you're not willing to "be a coach" yourself.  Which I'm not.  I consider $130 for 30 shakes to be very expensive.

ringer707

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #483 on: October 03, 2017, 11:44:01 AM »
Evidently, there is an MLM that sells toothpaste?

One of the most strident MLMers I know is a nun.

The MLM toothpaste is insane. $28 a tube. Also, I don't know about the people you know selling it, but all the ones I've known who sell it will never tell you what brand it is in the ads... It's probably the only ad campaign I've ever seen where they PURPOSEFULLY do not reveal the brand name to anyone and block it out in all pictures of the product on social media. And every time anyone comments to find out more about the toothpaste, the person selling it just says "I'll message you!" My mom finally commented on one just so she could find out what the product actually was. I don't recall the name, but it was also available on Amazon and had really crappy ratings.

ixtap

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #484 on: October 03, 2017, 11:53:52 AM »
Evidently, there is an MLM that sells toothpaste?

One of the most strident MLMers I know is a nun.

The MLM toothpaste is insane. $28 a tube. Also, I don't know about the people you know selling it, but all the ones I've known who sell it will never tell you what brand it is in the ads... It's probably the only ad campaign I've ever seen where they PURPOSEFULLY do not reveal the brand name to anyone and block it out in all pictures of the product on social media. And every time anyone comments to find out more about the toothpaste, the person selling it just says "I'll message you!" My mom finally commented on one just so she could find out what the product actually was. I don't recall the name, but it was also available on Amazon and had really crappy ratings.

I did notice that pictures show it packaged in unlabelled green envelopes...

Her previous obsession was with some health food mango thing, but after a year or two, even she seems to have admitted that she is the same size as ever. The funny thing is, back in the day, I admired how she seemed more comfortable about her size than me, even though I wasn't obese then. It made me so sad to see her hawking this shit.

Makes a poor commentary on the Catholic Church, as far as I am concerned.

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #485 on: October 03, 2017, 12:16:18 PM »
Kills me how many people don't use the library. My sister's husband commented when he was here over the summer that, "You're the only non-parent adult I know that actually uses the library." I just shook my head at that, it seems to him that the only reason anyone would use the library is to get the endless children's books. I read over 60 books a year and would quickly run out of shelf space if I bought a tenth of them. This also explains why he and his wife (my sister) think it would be insane for me to retire on anything less than a $5M nest egg.

One of the things I miss most about working in higher ed is access to the campus library. Not only was it already well-stocked, but they had a budget specifically for faculty and staff requests; literally any book I wanted, I just had to email the ISBN to a librarian and I'd have it in a week or less. Amazing.

Yeah that's amazing! I wish my library could get any book I wanted as there are a ton that they don't stock.

I can understand someone not using the library if they are far away or their local one is inadequate but my sister's husband is a professor at an extremely well-regarded university. I'm guessing he can get access to just about any book that he, my sister, or any of their kids could want. Knowing that universities can bring in any ISBN that is requested makes me even more puzzled as to why he wouldn't take advantage of such a thing. But oh well, his money.

Even my public library will take suggestions, so check with yours.  They've purchased quite a few books for me that I saw on the internet and wanted, although your chances seem to be a lot better if it's nonfiction.

sparkytheop

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #486 on: October 03, 2017, 12:39:27 PM »
Kills me how many people don't use the library. My sister's husband commented when he was here over the summer that, "You're the only non-parent adult I know that actually uses the library." I just shook my head at that, it seems to him that the only reason anyone would use the library is to get the endless children's books. I read over 60 books a year and would quickly run out of shelf space if I bought a tenth of them. This also explains why he and his wife (my sister) think it would be insane for me to retire on anything less than a $5M nest egg.

One of the things I miss most about working in higher ed is access to the campus library. Not only was it already well-stocked, but they had a budget specifically for faculty and staff requests; literally any book I wanted, I just had to email the ISBN to a librarian and I'd have it in a week or less. Amazing.

Yeah that's amazing! I wish my library could get any book I wanted as there are a ton that they don't stock.

I can understand someone not using the library if they are far away or their local one is inadequate but my sister's husband is a professor at an extremely well-regarded university. I'm guessing he can get access to just about any book that he, my sister, or any of their kids could want. Knowing that universities can bring in any ISBN that is requested makes me even more puzzled as to why he wouldn't take advantage of such a thing. But oh well, his money.

Even my public library will take suggestions, so check with yours.  They've purchased quite a few books for me that I saw on the internet and wanted, although your chances seem to be a lot better if it's nonfiction.

Our library will allow you to request a book, and then they search libraries they have partnered with for inventory.  That library will send the book to our library, and then you can check it out.  It takes a little while to get here, and sometimes there is a waiting list, but I'd also see if "your" local library has a system set up like this.

Samuel

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #487 on: October 03, 2017, 02:10:34 PM »
Kills me how many people don't use the library. My sister's husband commented when he was here over the summer that, "You're the only non-parent adult I know that actually uses the library." I just shook my head at that, it seems to him that the only reason anyone would use the library is to get the endless children's books. I read over 60 books a year and would quickly run out of shelf space if I bought a tenth of them. This also explains why he and his wife (my sister) think it would be insane for me to retire on anything less than a $5M nest egg.

One of the things I miss most about working in higher ed is access to the campus library. Not only was it already well-stocked, but they had a budget specifically for faculty and staff requests; literally any book I wanted, I just had to email the ISBN to a librarian and I'd have it in a week or less. Amazing.

Yeah that's amazing! I wish my library could get any book I wanted as there are a ton that they don't stock.

I can understand someone not using the library if they are far away or their local one is inadequate but my sister's husband is a professor at an extremely well-regarded university. I'm guessing he can get access to just about any book that he, my sister, or any of their kids could want. Knowing that universities can bring in any ISBN that is requested makes me even more puzzled as to why he wouldn't take advantage of such a thing. But oh well, his money.

Even my public library will take suggestions, so check with yours.  They've purchased quite a few books for me that I saw on the internet and wanted, although your chances seem to be a lot better if it's nonfiction.

Our library will allow you to request a book, and then they search libraries they have partnered with for inventory.  That library will send the book to our library, and then you can check it out.  It takes a little while to get here, and sometimes there is a waiting list, but I'd also see if "your" local library has a system set up like this.

Yep, I worked in public libraries for a decade and very few people knew about and utilized the "inter-library loan" process. Your system may well have reciprocal borrowing agreements with others, sometimes including academic libraries. It can involve some extra effort and patience but worth exploring.

dreaming

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #488 on: October 03, 2017, 03:56:14 PM »
Kills me how many people don't use the library. My sister's husband commented when he was here over the summer that, "You're the only non-parent adult I know that actually uses the library." I just shook my head at that, it seems to him that the only reason anyone would use the library is to get the endless children's books. I read over 60 books a year and would quickly run out of shelf space if I bought a tenth of them. This also explains why he and his wife (my sister) think it would be insane for me to retire on anything less than a $5M nest egg.

One of the things I miss most about working in higher ed is access to the campus library. Not only was it already well-stocked, but they had a budget specifically for faculty and staff requests; literally any book I wanted, I just had to email the ISBN to a librarian and I'd have it in a week or less. Amazing.

Yeah that's amazing! I wish my library could get any book I wanted as there are a ton that they don't stock.

I can understand someone not using the library if they are far away or their local one is inadequate but my sister's husband is a professor at an extremely well-regarded university. I'm guessing he can get access to just about any book that he, my sister, or any of their kids could want. Knowing that universities can bring in any ISBN that is requested makes me even more puzzled as to why he wouldn't take advantage of such a thing. But oh well, his money.

Even my public library will take suggestions, so check with yours.  They've purchased quite a few books for me that I saw on the internet and wanted, although your chances seem to be a lot better if it's nonfiction.

Our library will allow you to request a book, and then they search libraries they have partnered with for inventory.  That library will send the book to our library, and then you can check it out.  It takes a little while to get here, and sometimes there is a waiting list, but I'd also see if "your" local library has a system set up like this.

Yep, I worked in public libraries for a decade and very few people knew about and utilized the "inter-library loan" process. Your system may well have reciprocal borrowing agreements with others, sometimes including academic libraries. It can involve some extra effort and patience but worth exploring.

Yes to this!  I live in a metro area and I can take my library card (received from the county I live in) to any one of 7 metro counties and check out a book.  I take full advantage of this.  I work in a different and much larger county than I live and the library is about 1 mile away from my job.  Much closer than the "town" library from my house.  I go online and reserve books in the "work" county and if the book is not shelved in the library by my work, they deliver it from a different library in the county.  It's awesome! 

Chesleygirl

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #489 on: October 03, 2017, 05:12:59 PM »
My local library now charges $5.00 for an inter library loan. It used to be free. I can often find books on amazon for around the same price, so I just buy it on amazon instead.

So basically, if my library doesn't have it, I have to buy it.

mm1970

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #490 on: October 03, 2017, 05:48:12 PM »
I know a lady who is a "Beach Body Coach".  She posts a lot of workout selfies and hosts "accountability groups", but doesn't push the selling anything, and is honest that if you're going to ask for a recommendation for a workout routine, that she's going to suggest a beach body one.

Anyway, it made me curious, so I looked up the price of the shakes.  $130 for a 30 day supply.  WTF?!  Of course, the reasoning is "all those nutrients, you'll never get that many on your own!"  That's pretty much half my grocery budget for the month (for two people, minus bulk meat).  Why in the world would a shake mix be so expensive?
It's not really that expensive. 

But it is, if you're not willing to "be a coach" yourself.  Which I'm not.  I consider $130 for 30 shakes to be very expensive.

Sorry, that's not what I meant.  Yes, $130 / month is expensive, and so is $97.50 / month (plus the $17 coach fee!)

But the actual cost to make the shakes has got to be low.  They are only "expensive" because of the "commissions" they pay coaches to get people to buy the product every month.  The ingredients themselves?  I doubt they are very expensive.

I even made that point long long ago and far away.   Cannot even remember when or where.  They "teach" coaches to frame it in a way "it's for your health", and "How much do you spend on Starbucks?"

I pointed out at the time that I was spending roughly $4 per person per day on food for my family, so asking to spend THAT AMOUNT on the equivalent of ONE MEAL (not even, it's only 160 calories), was kind of ridiculous.
« Last Edit: October 03, 2017, 05:52:16 PM by mm1970 »

sparkytheop

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #491 on: October 03, 2017, 06:49:01 PM »
I know a lady who is a "Beach Body Coach".  She posts a lot of workout selfies and hosts "accountability groups", but doesn't push the selling anything, and is honest that if you're going to ask for a recommendation for a workout routine, that she's going to suggest a beach body one.

Anyway, it made me curious, so I looked up the price of the shakes.  $130 for a 30 day supply.  WTF?!  Of course, the reasoning is "all those nutrients, you'll never get that many on your own!"  That's pretty much half my grocery budget for the month (for two people, minus bulk meat).  Why in the world would a shake mix be so expensive?
It's not really that expensive. 

But it is, if you're not willing to "be a coach" yourself.  Which I'm not.  I consider $130 for 30 shakes to be very expensive.

Sorry, that's not what I meant.  Yes, $130 / month is expensive, and so is $97.50 / month (plus the $17 coach fee!)

But the actual cost to make the shakes has got to be low.  They are only "expensive" because of the "commissions" they pay coaches to get people to buy the product every month.  The ingredients themselves?  I doubt they are very expensive.

I even made that point long long ago and far away.   Cannot even remember when or where.  They "teach" coaches to frame it in a way "it's for your health", and "How much do you spend on Starbucks?"

I pointed out at the time that I was spending roughly $4 per person per day on food for my family, so asking to spend THAT AMOUNT on the equivalent of ONE MEAL (not even, it's only 160 calories), was kind of ridiculous.

Oh, yeah.  I agree it's likely made dirt cheap and all the money goes to "the line" and for the top person's profit.  I'll pay $40 at Costco...  It's just so insanely overpriced for what it is.  (sorry for the mis-interpretation, we're on the same page!)

I got the spiel that "but all that nutrition, I could never get that much on my own.  It would take x number of vegetables, and x number of this, and that...!"  Well, I'm sure I can grind up a multi-vitamin and add it to my own smoothie for a few extra cents.   

My answer with Starbucks is $0.  My "eating out" budget is less than $30/month (and I don't even touch it some months so that I can do a really nice meal out once in a while and know it's budgeted).  My food budget is $250/month (sometimes I'm under, sometimes I go under).  So, no, still not worth using 1/2 my budget on 1/6 of my "meals".  I could increase my meal budget if I wanted, but that would mean cutting into my quilting budget, or my "save to build the house" budget, and that's not going to happen.

Chesleygirl

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #492 on: October 03, 2017, 09:47:49 PM »
But the actual cost to make the shakes has got to be low.  They are only "expensive" because of the "commissions" they pay coaches to get people to buy the product every month.  The ingredients themselves?  I doubt they are very expensive.

I'd bet the powdered ingredients and the packaging for the shake (plastic can that it comes in) altogether, doesn't cost more than $10.

There's no way it's worth $130. That's crazy.   

Apples

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #493 on: October 04, 2017, 08:42:20 AM »
Kills me how many people don't use the library. My sister's husband commented when he was here over the summer that, "You're the only non-parent adult I know that actually uses the library." I just shook my head at that, it seems to him that the only reason anyone would use the library is to get the endless children's books. I read over 60 books a year and would quickly run out of shelf space if I bought a tenth of them. This also explains why he and his wife (my sister) think it would be insane for me to retire on anything less than a $5M nest egg.

One of the things I miss most about working in higher ed is access to the campus library. Not only was it already well-stocked, but they had a budget specifically for faculty and staff requests; literally any book I wanted, I just had to email the ISBN to a librarian and I'd have it in a week or less. Amazing.

Yeah that's amazing! I wish my library could get any book I wanted as there are a ton that they don't stock.

I can understand someone not using the library if they are far away or their local one is inadequate but my sister's husband is a professor at an extremely well-regarded university. I'm guessing he can get access to just about any book that he, my sister, or any of their kids could want. Knowing that universities can bring in any ISBN that is requested makes me even more puzzled as to why he wouldn't take advantage of such a thing. But oh well, his money.

Even my public library will take suggestions, so check with yours.  They've purchased quite a few books for me that I saw on the internet and wanted, although your chances seem to be a lot better if it's nonfiction.

Our library will allow you to request a book, and then they search libraries they have partnered with for inventory.  That library will send the book to our library, and then you can check it out.  It takes a little while to get here, and sometimes there is a waiting list, but I'd also see if "your" local library has a system set up like this.

+1 and I live in a rural area with a county library system that has borrowed from as far away as several hours from here for an interlibrary loan for me.  It's free, and I usually get the book in 1-2 weeks as long as it's a few years old (and therefore not already on hold by lots of people at the library we might get it from).

robartsd

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #494 on: October 05, 2017, 03:25:03 PM »
I'll continue the library hijack of this thread:

Interlibrary loans are great. My local library, Sacramento Public Library, has about 30 locations. All circulating books and most other circulating media (we've had some videos that don't circulate from other branches for some reason) can be requested online for pickup at any branch. If the book is on the shelf, it usualy takes a few days.

The library is also a member of LINK+ which provides access to the circulating collection of many college and public library systems. Even LINK+ requests can be made online and usually take about a week to arrive. Late/lost item fees can be higher in the LINK+ system and renewals are more limited and take longer to process.

firelight

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #495 on: October 05, 2017, 06:18:56 PM »
Adding to the library foam: I love my library since I can borrow books online as well and don't even have to visit the library to get the books. And that means I can travel anywhere and still get books from library. And be able to carry them all on my Kindle or phone (Kindle app). Mind= blown!!

CodingHare

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #496 on: October 07, 2017, 10:10:47 AM »
My workplace hosts a crafts fair twice a year where employee's can hawk their side hustle.

I just found out that this time, Usborne Books will be offering a great deal at our next fair... Not sure how I feel about MLM invading the workplace.

frugledoc

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #497 on: October 07, 2017, 10:41:59 AM »
My workplace hosts a crafts fair twice a year where employee's can hawk their side hustle.

I just found out that this time, Usborne Books will be offering a great deal at our next fair... Not sure how I feel about MLM invading the workplace.

Are Usborne books the ones like that's not my tiger etc?

We have a few but bought them from amazon I think. 

Indexer

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #498 on: October 07, 2017, 08:58:51 PM »
Sorry, that's not what I meant.  Yes, $130 / month is expensive, and so is $97.50 / month (plus the $17 coach fee!)

But the actual cost to make the shakes has got to be low.  They are only "expensive" because of the "commissions" they pay coaches to get people to buy the product every month.  The ingredients themselves?  I doubt they are very expensive.

I pointed out at the time that I was spending roughly $4 per person per day on food for my family, so asking to spend THAT AMOUNT on the equivalent of ONE MEAL (not even, it's only 160 calories), was kind of ridiculous.

I don't know what is in these shakes, but I wanted to put something in perspective. $130/30 comes out to $4.33 per shake.

For $4.33 you could make a really nice smoothie at home with fresh fruits and veggies. The smoothies I make in the blender are 500-600 calories(these are big smoothies), and they contain 50-100%+ of your daily fiber, protein, potassium, calcium, other minerals, vitamins, anti-oxidants, etc.

availablelight

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Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #499 on: October 08, 2017, 04:49:44 AM »
Adding to the library foam: I love my library since I can borrow books online as well and don't even have to visit the library to get the books. And that means I can travel anywhere and still get books from library. And be able to carry them all on my Kindle or phone (Kindle app). Mind= blown!!

I should probably start getting books from the library more often (i.e., at all).  In the past I've filled up multiple bookcases everywhere I've lived, though the last place was pretty small, so I didn't accumulate books the same way because I knew I'd have nowhere to put them.  I've moved to the Kindle for Gutenberg and other public domain books I can get online for free, but for contemporary entertainment reading and other things I'm not likely to reread, using the library seems better.  I don't know how good the local libraries will be at getting books through interlibrary loan, but I might as well find out, and see if I can save money and space.

On topic, I've had limited interaction with MLMs -- the only time they've touched my life is through some guy who wanted to talk about something he made out to be an opportunity related to my field, but it turned out he was trying to recruit me into Amway.  I switched off at this point, let him go through the rest of his spiel, and emailed him back later to say I wasn't interested.  I didn't otherwise know the guy, so that was the end of it.  Seems like others here have big parts of their social network involved, though -- not surprising since you'd expect that to be how these things generally expand.