Author Topic: No, I won't buy into your MLM  (Read 256691 times)

OtherJen

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1194
  • Location: Metro Detroit
Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #1000 on: November 28, 2018, 07:58:12 PM »
Irony, listening to "The Dream" on an airplane going home, then getting off the plane and walking under a "Welcome" sign from one of the biggest MLMs in the world.  Yup my thoughts on the company are "it's complicated."  The actual company and it's founders other business, not the MLM part, are a huge economic driver in my town.

I bet I can guess where you live. I've never been in that airport, but the downtown area drives home your point very nicely (although it is a very nice downtown).

Just Joe

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 2630
Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #1001 on: November 29, 2018, 08:02:24 AM »
I've long been a little fascinated by how MLM big wigs can take advantage of the people recruited to work for the company and still take pride in their wealth and what their wealth afforded them.

"Look at my house, look at my cars, look at my boats!"

Yeah but look at all the people screwed over to generate the cash flow to buy these things. How can a person have pride in that?

Can apply to politicians, religious leaders, corporate leaders, MLM leaders, etc. 

sparkytheop

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 753
Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #1002 on: December 01, 2018, 12:08:59 AM »
Lularoe, the ugly leggings MLM, has had a lawsuit filed against them from their former supplier.  There is a link to a pdf of the lawsuit here: https://www.facebook.com/groups/defective/permalink/1590805307732714/

From the lawsuit (owner of LLR to the supplier, MyDyer):

"Look guys, I am not going to pay you guys a f***ing dime unless a judge orders me to pay it, and DeAnne and I will take our two to three hundred million dollars to the Bahamas and f*** everything."

Lawsuit is for upwards of $48 million owed.

Just Joe

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 2630
Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #1003 on: December 03, 2018, 09:27:22 AM »
Such nice people... People to be admired and celebrated. True American success stories.

Hunny156

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 432
  • Location: Central TX
Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #1004 on: December 04, 2018, 11:45:45 AM »
With LLR, the episode of American Greed just writes itself!  The company culture is so toxic too, it might as well be a cult.  When the lawsuit article broke on Saturday morning, the remaining top sellers and mentors all spouted the same lies.  Many of them were headed to CA for Facebook training for the day, and all big companies get hit w/lawsuits, no big deal.  Furthermore, LLR didn't pay those bills b/c the product was defective, they changed suppliers and this was sour grapes!

Umm, the FB training is something you can do online, so they obviously were headed to corporate offices to scheme some more lies to keep their consultants in line.

As for the lawsuit, if you order cheap fabrics and pay for low quality assembly, then that's what you get.  Can't blame the supplier for supplying you with crap product, when that's what you ordered.  Furthermore, in most cases, LLR determined that these products were not defective when the consultants noticed the issues.  You can't have it both ways.  You didn't pay the supplier b/c it was crap, but you charged your consultants to buy the crap, and then opted to counsel the consultants to blame their clients when things went wrong! 

Your leggings popped a huge hole on the very first wear?  You didn't order the right size.  The fabric disintegrated in the wash?  Why would you assume you could wash them like normal clothing?  Oh no, you have to hand wash and airy dry, like a fine pair of nylon stockings!

As someone who has never been involved in LLR in any way, it's been an interesting education in the inner workings of this one MLM, and I am rooting for the ship to go down, soon.  Unfortunately, the ones left holding the bag will be the ones least able to afford it, and the ones who should be held criminally responsible will get off mostly unscathed, likely with most of their stolen proceeds intact.

4alpacas

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1894
Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #1005 on: December 04, 2018, 12:08:41 PM »
Irony, listening to "The Dream" on an airplane going home, then getting off the plane and walking under a "Welcome" sign from one of the biggest MLMs in the world.  Yup my thoughts on the company are "it's complicated."  The actual company and it's founders other business, not the MLM part, are a huge economic driver in my town.

I bet I can guess where you live. I've never been in that airport, but the downtown area drives home your point very nicely (although it is a very nice downtown).
I have also been to that airport and grew up close to that area.

I also loved "The Dream" podcast.  I would highly recommend it to anyone frustrated with MLMs.

Cpa Cat

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1564
Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #1006 on: December 05, 2018, 06:08:08 AM »
Furthermore, in most cases, LLR determined that these products were not defective when the consultants noticed the issues.

The Dream dropped me down a rabbit hole of MLM podcasts, and the LLR story is fascinating. They may legitimately have a case for not paying their supplier if half of what consultants were saying was true - product arriving stinking, wet, torn, or otherwise damaged. Low quality items that tear upon first use.

But Hunny156 is right. LLR's response was that the consultants were wrong and that the defects were isolated. They basically acted like it wasn't true. Instead of responding swiftly to correct the supplier quality control issue and make things rights in order to protect their reputation, LLR's corporate office basically assisted in destroying their own reputation. They kept shipping from that supplier and blamed their customer instead.

What's more, LLR refused to refund the cost of the low-quality clothes to the consultants. So they sold the clothes, and didn't pay their supplier. You can't have your cake and eat it too.

englishteacheralex

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1650
  • Age: 39
  • Location: Honolulu, HI
Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #1007 on: December 05, 2018, 07:27:46 AM »
More MLM podcasts? Share them! The Dream was amazing and I'm thirsty for more!

OneStep

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 43
  • Location: KC Metro
Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #1008 on: December 05, 2018, 03:12:13 PM »
I also enjoyed The Dream podcast until the last 2 episodes. I really wish they would have continued to focus on the specific MLMs and their practices and those who have been hurt by them. Listening to that last interview was a bit unbearable. I don't know any reasonable journalist who would start off an interview but stating that they think the other person is going to lie to them. Started the whole thing off on a bad point and you could tell the guy was defensive from the beginning. It felt like the 2 different interviews were just being combative and leaning on their investigation of that specific company and other witness interviews. It seemed like too much anecdotal evidence and seemed to loose credibility in how it was presented during that interview. I personally hate MLMs and would love to see them go away because they do cause much more harm than good, but I wish they would have kept talking about the structure of the companies more and provide more insight on how the practice is setup to hurt people instead of help them.

englishteacheralex

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1650
  • Age: 39
  • Location: Honolulu, HI
Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #1009 on: December 05, 2018, 03:22:15 PM »
I also enjoyed The Dream podcast until the last 2 episodes. I really wish they would have continued to focus on the specific MLMs and their practices and those who have been hurt by them. Listening to that last interview was a bit unbearable. I don't know any reasonable journalist who would start off an interview but stating that they think the other person is going to lie to them. Started the whole thing off on a bad point and you could tell the guy was defensive from the beginning. It felt like the 2 different interviews were just being combative and leaning on their investigation of that specific company and other witness interviews. It seemed like too much anecdotal evidence and seemed to loose credibility in how it was presented during that interview. I personally hate MLMs and would love to see them go away because they do cause much more harm than good, but I wish they would have kept talking about the structure of the companies more and provide more insight on how the practice is setup to hurt people instead of help them.

You're right! That last episode was brutal. Lame journalism that hurt the rest of the series, which is a real shame because arg I want MLMs to GO DOWN!!!

4alpacas

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1894
Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #1010 on: December 05, 2018, 03:29:17 PM »
I also enjoyed The Dream podcast until the last 2 episodes. I really wish they would have continued to focus on the specific MLMs and their practices and those who have been hurt by them. Listening to that last interview was a bit unbearable. I don't know any reasonable journalist who would start off an interview but stating that they think the other person is going to lie to them. Started the whole thing off on a bad point and you could tell the guy was defensive from the beginning. It felt like the 2 different interviews were just being combative and leaning on their investigation of that specific company and other witness interviews. It seemed like too much anecdotal evidence and seemed to loose credibility in how it was presented during that interview. I personally hate MLMs and would love to see them go away because they do cause much more harm than good, but I wish they would have kept talking about the structure of the companies more and provide more insight on how the practice is setup to hurt people instead of help them.

You're right! That last episode was brutal. Lame journalism that hurt the rest of the series, which is a real shame because arg I want MLMs to GO DOWN!!!
I also agree.  Episode 11 was a disappointment on many levels.  However, I'm very interested in the MLM industry.  Are there any books that anyone can recommend?

sparkytheop

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 753
Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #1011 on: December 05, 2018, 04:04:24 PM »
I also enjoyed The Dream podcast until the last 2 episodes. I really wish they would have continued to focus on the specific MLMs and their practices and those who have been hurt by them. Listening to that last interview was a bit unbearable. I don't know any reasonable journalist who would start off an interview but stating that they think the other person is going to lie to them. Started the whole thing off on a bad point and you could tell the guy was defensive from the beginning. It felt like the 2 different interviews were just being combative and leaning on their investigation of that specific company and other witness interviews. It seemed like too much anecdotal evidence and seemed to loose credibility in how it was presented during that interview. I personally hate MLMs and would love to see them go away because they do cause much more harm than good, but I wish they would have kept talking about the structure of the companies more and provide more insight on how the practice is setup to hurt people instead of help them.

You're right! That last episode was brutal. Lame journalism that hurt the rest of the series, which is a real shame because arg I want MLMs to GO DOWN!!!
I also agree.  Episode 11 was a disappointment on many levels.  However, I'm very interested in the MLM industry.  Are there any books that anyone can recommend?

Disclaimer: I have not read this!

One that completely fascinates me is Amway.  Mostly because I don't know enough about it to figure out how the hell anyone expects to make any money.  But, I know enough about it that they force "training" on people, and that seems to be how some of them make money (by creating and selling the training material).  But I really just don't get it.  Why are people so convinced they can get rich and quit their jobs.

This was recommended to me, and I want to read it, but I'm an extremely slow reader and already in the middle of two other books right now.

https://archive.org/details/MerchantsOfDeception

There is a pdf you can download (the kindle version didn't work for me).  It's legible (unlike the version shown on the computer when you just go to the link).  It's written by a man who was deep into amway (and one of the top people).

Quote
...My wife and I were recruited by friends and quickly rose through the ranks and found ourselves in the top 1/25th of 1% of the multi-billion dollar Amway Corporation. For nearly a decade, we developed a “business” that expanded from North America to Europe, South America, and the Philippines. We spoke to thousands from stage and worked intimately with the Kingpin distributors through whom as much as 90% of Amway's $4-5 billion dollars in annual revenue flows. My wife and I spent personal time with the company's billionaire founder Rich DeVos.
To make a long story short, at the highest level, I inadvertently discovered what documentation now appears to reveal as two decades of systematic, global fraud running into sums far in excess of twenty billion dollars. When I initially discovered the deception, I naively thought it only involved Kingpin level distributors in the field. I immediately reported it to Amway senior management with nearly 50 pages of corroborating documentation.
Their response was more shocking than what I had discovered. Instead of taking action against the Kingpin level distributors that were clearly defrauding the masses, they began to make threats of taking punitive action against me. Fortunately, I had them do it all in writing...

4alpacas

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1894
Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #1012 on: December 05, 2018, 04:42:23 PM »
I also enjoyed The Dream podcast until the last 2 episodes. I really wish they would have continued to focus on the specific MLMs and their practices and those who have been hurt by them. Listening to that last interview was a bit unbearable. I don't know any reasonable journalist who would start off an interview but stating that they think the other person is going to lie to them. Started the whole thing off on a bad point and you could tell the guy was defensive from the beginning. It felt like the 2 different interviews were just being combative and leaning on their investigation of that specific company and other witness interviews. It seemed like too much anecdotal evidence and seemed to loose credibility in how it was presented during that interview. I personally hate MLMs and would love to see them go away because they do cause much more harm than good, but I wish they would have kept talking about the structure of the companies more and provide more insight on how the practice is setup to hurt people instead of help them.

You're right! That last episode was brutal. Lame journalism that hurt the rest of the series, which is a real shame because arg I want MLMs to GO DOWN!!!
I also agree.  Episode 11 was a disappointment on many levels.  However, I'm very interested in the MLM industry.  Are there any books that anyone can recommend?

Disclaimer: I have not read this!

One that completely fascinates me is Amway.  Mostly because I don't know enough about it to figure out how the hell anyone expects to make any money.  But, I know enough about it that they force "training" on people, and that seems to be how some of them make money (by creating and selling the training material).  But I really just don't get it.  Why are people so convinced they can get rich and quit their jobs.

This was recommended to me, and I want to read it, but I'm an extremely slow reader and already in the middle of two other books right now.

https://archive.org/details/MerchantsOfDeception

There is a pdf you can download (the kindle version didn't work for me).  It's legible (unlike the version shown on the computer when you just go to the link).  It's written by a man who was deep into amway (and one of the top people).

Quote
...My wife and I were recruited by friends and quickly rose through the ranks and found ourselves in the top 1/25th of 1% of the multi-billion dollar Amway Corporation. For nearly a decade, we developed a “business” that expanded from North America to Europe, South America, and the Philippines. We spoke to thousands from stage and worked intimately with the Kingpin distributors through whom as much as 90% of Amway's $4-5 billion dollars in annual revenue flows. My wife and I spent personal time with the company's billionaire founder Rich DeVos.
To make a long story short, at the highest level, I inadvertently discovered what documentation now appears to reveal as two decades of systematic, global fraud running into sums far in excess of twenty billion dollars. When I initially discovered the deception, I naively thought it only involved Kingpin level distributors in the field. I immediately reported it to Amway senior management with nearly 50 pages of corroborating documentation.
Their response was more shocking than what I had discovered. Instead of taking action against the Kingpin level distributors that were clearly defrauding the masses, they began to make threats of taking punitive action against me. Fortunately, I had them do it all in writing...
Thanks!  I'll have to check it out.

Villanelle

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2461
Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #1013 on: December 06, 2018, 01:26:01 AM »
I had an extremely awkward interation with a coworker re: Amway (or whatever it's called these days.)  She took some time off with her husband to travel to a conference for "their business", which I learned from other coworkers was Amway.  This woman and I were work friends--lunch together more often than not, but we had only hung out one time outside of work as part of a large group.  So she returns from her conference and a couple days later comes and sits down in my cube.  That in and of itself was a bit weird.  As soon as she started talking, I could tell she was nervous.  So she starts telling me about what a great opportunity having their own business has been for her and her husband, and wouldn't I love to have that freedom?  (Or something like that; this was years ago).  I told her that DH and I are super busy and didn't have time for anything else, or something along those lines.  Of course she didn't take no for an answer, so she then told me that it takes almost no time, and blah blah blah.  Thankfully, she was pretty terrible at it because I suck at saying now (although there is no way I would have every said yes to that, but it probably would have gotten very awkward).  It was pretty obvious that she was using scripts she'd been given to counter various arguments, but after a few attempts, she gave up and left it with telling me to contact her if I changed my mind and ever wanted to be able to quit work and run my own business. 

I considered reporting her to management, but it would have gotten super awkward in a fairly small workplace, so I didn't. 

TheGrimSqueaker

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2105
  • Location: A desert wasteland, where none but the weird survive
  • www.theliveinlandlord.com
    • The Live-In Landlord
Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #1014 on: December 06, 2018, 07:15:39 AM »
More MLM podcasts? Share them! The Dream was amazing and I'm thirsty for more!

Was it the sort of production you can listen to, that contains content, and that delivers it in an intelligent way?

I have to admit that I've tried a few podcasts and TED talks only to delete them early because the people on them simply can't communicate verbally. My personal rule is that if no new information is communicated within the first three minutes, I switch it off. Mostly I've found podcasts to be mumble-mumble, jargon, throat clearing, lip smacking, "well you know", and people interrupting each other or laughing about some kind of inside joke the audience isn't part of. TED talks are even worse because they're one-sided emotional bubblings that simply don't deliver any content. Sitting around wasting ten minutes of bandwidth for something that could have been communicated in thirty seconds or less isn't my idea of a good time. So I haven't done any podcasts in years.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2018, 12:37:15 PM by TheGrimSqueaker »

englishteacheralex

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1650
  • Age: 39
  • Location: Honolulu, HI
Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #1015 on: December 06, 2018, 07:18:16 AM »
Do you like This American Life? It was along those lines. Pretty informative, almost like a nonfiction book. I actually don't generally love TED talks or super conversational podcasts, myself, but to me The Dream was more substantive.

Beard N Bones

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 145
  • Location: Canada
Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #1016 on: December 06, 2018, 08:06:21 AM »
Are there any books that anyone can recommend?

I have found the best book on MLM's is "MULTI-LEVEL MARKETING UNMASKED – Why Multilevel Marketing Is Unfair and Deceptive" By Jon M. Taylor.  Here is a link to that book on www.mlmwatch.org:
https://www.mlmwatch.org/01General/mlm_unmasked_2017.pdf

Happy reading.  (/sar.  The info in that book gets me all-fired-up.)

Just Joe

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 2630
Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #1017 on: December 06, 2018, 08:15:14 AM »
For me there are podcasts and there are podcasts. I rarely have patience for the very amateur podcasts recorded in someone's spare room. Not enough content, too much of all the things TGS mentioned.

Then there are podcasts that could easily double for an NPR/BBC radio show - and sometimes do. Those are very professionally made and to me, interesting most of the time. TAL and The Dream were good examples. Hidden Brain is another one I've enjoyed.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2018, 08:19:53 AM by Just Joe »

I'm a red panda

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 7889
  • Location: United States
Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #1018 on: December 06, 2018, 08:31:40 AM »
It's been awhile, but with the holidays the MLM parties are popping out of the woodwork!

Essential oil "classes" like crazy, huge number of vendor fairs and just today Color Street Nails.  basically jamberry, but made out of real nail polish and really limited selection. No thanks, I'll just keep painting my nails.

All the LLR consultants I know of in the area are still selling.  I don't think people are buying as much though, I rarely see it around, and for awhile it was everywhere.

4alpacas

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1894
Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #1019 on: December 06, 2018, 10:12:33 AM »
Ugh!  I was hunting for a new podcast, and I came across a women's side hustle podcast (I forget the actual title of the podcast).  The first (and only) episode I downloaded was about an MLM.  I immediately deleted the episode.  UGH!

Hunny156

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 432
  • Location: Central TX
Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #1020 on: December 06, 2018, 12:03:46 PM »
I also enjoyed The Dream podcast until the last 2 episodes. I really wish they would have continued to focus on the specific MLMs and their practices and those who have been hurt by them. Listening to that last interview was a bit unbearable. I don't know any reasonable journalist who would start off an interview but stating that they think the other person is going to lie to them. Started the whole thing off on a bad point and you could tell the guy was defensive from the beginning. It felt like the 2 different interviews were just being combative and leaning on their investigation of that specific company and other witness interviews. It seemed like too much anecdotal evidence and seemed to loose credibility in how it was presented during that interview. I personally hate MLMs and would love to see them go away because they do cause much more harm than good, but I wish they would have kept talking about the structure of the companies more and provide more insight on how the practice is setup to hurt people instead of help them.

You're right! That last episode was brutal. Lame journalism that hurt the rest of the series, which is a real shame because arg I want MLMs to GO DOWN!!!
I also agree.  Episode 11 was a disappointment on many levels.  However, I'm very interested in the MLM industry.  Are there any books that anyone can recommend?

Disclaimer: I have not read this!

One that completely fascinates me is Amway.  Mostly because I don't know enough about it to figure out how the hell anyone expects to make any money.  But, I know enough about it that they force "training" on people, and that seems to be how some of them make money (by creating and selling the training material).  But I really just don't get it.  Why are people so convinced they can get rich and quit their jobs.

This was recommended to me, and I want to read it, but I'm an extremely slow reader and already in the middle of two other books right now.

https://archive.org/details/MerchantsOfDeception

There is a pdf you can download (the kindle version didn't work for me).  It's legible (unlike the version shown on the computer when you just go to the link).  It's written by a man who was deep into amway (and one of the top people).

Quote
...My wife and I were recruited by friends and quickly rose through the ranks and found ourselves in the top 1/25th of 1% of the multi-billion dollar Amway Corporation. For nearly a decade, we developed a “business” that expanded from North America to Europe, South America, and the Philippines. We spoke to thousands from stage and worked intimately with the Kingpin distributors through whom as much as 90% of Amway's $4-5 billion dollars in annual revenue flows. My wife and I spent personal time with the company's billionaire founder Rich DeVos.
To make a long story short, at the highest level, I inadvertently discovered what documentation now appears to reveal as two decades of systematic, global fraud running into sums far in excess of twenty billion dollars. When I initially discovered the deception, I naively thought it only involved Kingpin level distributors in the field. I immediately reported it to Amway senior management with nearly 50 pages of corroborating documentation.
Their response was more shocking than what I had discovered. Instead of taking action against the Kingpin level distributors that were clearly defrauding the masses, they began to make threats of taking punitive action against me. Fortunately, I had them do it all in writing...
Thanks!  I'll have to check it out.

I have read it.  It's a pretty good read, but towards the end, I felt like the author was just so shocked coming out of the Amway fog, that he rambled on for about 50 pages too long.  So you might want to skip to the very end if you feel the same way I did.

Hula Hoop

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 963
  • Location: Italy
Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #1021 on: December 06, 2018, 01:40:29 PM »
Ugh I belong to an expat moms group in my town and there is this one woman who keeps spamming our online group with invitations to gatherings where she's obviously trying to hawk her MLM.  This is driving me and another member crazy but the group moderator is too polite to do anything.

mm1970

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 6342
Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #1022 on: December 06, 2018, 03:03:00 PM »
It's been awhile, but with the holidays the MLM parties are popping out of the woodwork!

Essential oil "classes" like crazy, huge number of vendor fairs and just today Color Street Nails.  basically jamberry, but made out of real nail polish and really limited selection. No thanks, I'll just keep painting my nails.

All the LLR consultants I know of in the area are still selling.  I don't think people are buying as much though, I rarely see it around, and for awhile it was everywhere.
For me, Usborne books.  Two invites in one week.  And now, the skincare Rodan & Fields again.  One of my college buddies promised to send me a "free gift!"  So I sent her my address with a "uh, my idea of skin care is that I wash my face in the shower..."

Just Joe

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 2630
Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #1023 on: December 06, 2018, 03:49:19 PM »
What happened to leggings? I thought they were just the best. There isn't another brand worth buying instead of LRR? I'm male so forgive my ignorance about these things. Maybe the interest in that style ended with the beginning of LRR's troubles?
« Last Edit: December 07, 2018, 07:23:28 AM by Just Joe »

sparkytheop

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 753
Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #1024 on: December 06, 2018, 05:02:40 PM »
I enjoyed The Dream podcast, but it was left too unresolved.  I'm curious about how much money the limelight/limelife girl ended up putting in, how she was treated if it wasn't enough, etc. 

Lanthiriel

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 782
  • Location: Portlandia
Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #1025 on: December 08, 2018, 12:35:03 PM »
What happened to leggings? I thought they were just the best. There isn't another brand worth buying instead of LRR? I'm male so forgive my ignorance about these things. Maybe the interest in that style ended with the beginning of LRR's troubles?

I wear leggings every day after giving up on pants about two years ago. The only ones I buy are the Felina brand two packs from Costco in black. I buy four sets once per year and toss them as I wear out the thighs (I'm a bit overweight, hence the aversion to pants). I wear them under a wide assortment of dresses for all occasions. They are wonderfully soft, not too long for my short legs, and cost about $7.50/pair. I love them. No MLMs required.

Hunny156

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 432
  • Location: Central TX
Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #1026 on: December 10, 2018, 09:30:16 AM »
I never understood the draw of LLR.  Supposedly the fabric is buttery soft.  Well, you can go to CVS and they have leggings on sale there called "butter soft", so I imagine it's the same quality of polyester.  Wal Mart & target also advertise this way, and the leggings are far cheaper at all three stores than what LLR charges.

OK, so maybe it's the crazy pattern thing?  Well, I've seen the displays at Walmart, and they have tons of patterns as well.  LLR then caused a huge uproar with their "noir" line, as in solid black leggings, which were considered unicorns.  Like, seriously?  Black leggings can be had literally ANYWHERE!  I understand that Amazon has a store called Leggings Depot, where all sorts of similar leggings can be found for $12, and of course, Amazon will stand by the item if it's damaged in any way.

So I have NEVER understood why anyone would go crazy over such a common, easy to find item.  Group think?  Perceived scarcity? A bunch of women wanting to support a friend's business and thinking $25 isn't a big deal?

I'm a red panda

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 7889
  • Location: United States
Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #1027 on: December 10, 2018, 09:39:11 AM »
LLR's leggings were the softest leggings with the best waistline I was able to find for the price point. Similar waist styles seemed to cost twice as much.

But if you didn't mind the elastic waist bands, leggings could easily be had or 1/3 the price. 

When I was pregnant, and my waist was super picky- LLR was the way to go for me. (I had two pairs, I was given one free and bought the other.)

The ridiculous patterns blew it for me though. I just want black leggings.

However, except for the Target leggings I bought 12 years ago (still going strong), I've yet to find any that I actually like.

chaskavitch

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 627
  • Age: 33
  • Location: Fort Collins, CO
Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #1028 on: December 10, 2018, 02:28:50 PM »
LLR's leggings were the softest leggings with the best waistline I was able to find for the price point. Similar waist styles seemed to cost twice as much.

But if you didn't mind the elastic waist bands, leggings could easily be had or 1/3 the price. 

When I was pregnant, and my waist was super picky- LLR was the way to go for me. (I had two pairs, I was given one free and bought the other.)

The ridiculous patterns blew it for me though. I just want black leggings.

However, except for the Target leggings I bought 12 years ago (still going strong), I've yet to find any that I actually like.

Agreed.  The waistband is what sold LLR for me.  I've been wearing them to yoga, and they still fit at 26 weeks (and hopefully longer!).   

I did see some leggings with a similar waistband with no added elastic at Target the other day, but they were warm/sweater leggings.  I don't know if they make them in a summer weight :( 

Hunny156

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 432
  • Location: Central TX
Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #1029 on: December 10, 2018, 03:41:02 PM »
Leggings Depot has the same waistband as an option, and if you are a Costco member, I have heard that the Felina branded ones have the waistband that everyone likes.

Me, I like my leggings to not move and have full coverage, so I found these Tuff Athletics brand on sale at Costco for $12.99 each, which I understand are comparable to LuLuLemon.  Works great in winter with boots and a long sweater.  Easy work wardrobe for corporate casual.

a286

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 36
Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #1030 on: December 11, 2018, 07:06:13 PM »
I've long been a little fascinated by how MLM big wigs can take advantage of the people recruited to work for the company and still take pride in their wealth and what their wealth afforded them.

"Look at my house, look at my cars, look at my boats!"

Yeah but look at all the people screwed over to generate the cash flow to buy these things. How can a person have pride in that?

Can apply to politicians, religious leaders, corporate leaders, MLM leaders, etc.
My father...

Zikoris

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3314
  • Age: 32
  • Location: Vancouver, BC
  • Vancouverstachian
Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #1031 on: December 11, 2018, 08:37:31 PM »
Are any of you guys getting MLM messages on LinkedIn? I've gotten a couple so far - here's the latest:

"I would like to introduce you this great opportunity to learn the financial knowledge and earn part time income at the same time. You can also potentially build your own business with our company in financial services. We help families earn income, have protection and become financial independent."

Pisses me off. Decline/block.

Just Joe

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 2630
Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #1032 on: December 12, 2018, 08:23:10 AM »
Has anyone studied Federal Anti-Pyramid Bill HR 3409? Marsha Blackburn from TN is sponsoring the bill. it was mentioned in "The Dream" podcast in the final episode. Sounded half baked to me but I was working with powertools while I listened so maybe I missed some detail.

jinga nation

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1069
  • Location: 'Murica's Johnson
  • Left, Right, Peddlin' Shite
Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #1033 on: December 12, 2018, 10:12:33 AM »
Are any of you guys getting MLM messages on LinkedIn? I've gotten a couple so far - here's the latest:

"I would like to introduce you this great opportunity to learn the financial knowledge and earn part time income at the same time. You can also potentially build your own business with our company in financial services. We help families earn income, have protection and become financial independent."

Pisses me off. Decline/block.

Increasingly so for the last couple of years. From people in my network. That I personally know and have worked with. Infuriating.

Deleted LinkedIn account in Oct 2018. Zero. Social. Media. Also all social media sites blocked in the house using a pihole. Can't even go to other's social media accounts or for businesses.

FireHiker

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 927
  • Location: So Cal
Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #1034 on: December 13, 2018, 11:58:20 AM »
Two more people on my FB have been sucked down the Arbonne rabbit hole, independent of one another and unrelated to the other Arbonne fanatic I know. I am SO.OVER.IT.

Just Joe

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 2630
Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #1035 on: December 14, 2018, 02:32:39 PM »
Start posting links to "The Dream" podcast to social media anytime anyone starts advertising.

FIRE@50

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 459
  • Age: 41
  • Location: Maryland
Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #1036 on: December 14, 2018, 02:39:26 PM »
Has anyone studied Federal Anti-Pyramid Bill HR 3409? Marsha Blackburn from TN is sponsoring the bill. it was mentioned in "The Dream" podcast in the final episode. Sounded half baked to me but I was working with powertools while I listened so maybe I missed some detail.
Studied? A bill? No, I have hobbies.

Giro

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 600
Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #1037 on: December 18, 2018, 08:59:17 AM »
I'm truly over the whole MLM business.  Someone I know, who I thought was a good friend, sells for a couple of MLMs.  She knows I am not interested, but recently has found herself in even bigger financial trouble.  She's always been in financial trouble, but I guess she wants Christmas money for her kids.  She makes over $75k a year in a very CHEAP area of the country.  It's a spending problem not an income problem. 

So, now she pressures me again a few days ago.  She is also selling knock-off clothing and handbags.  I want no part of any of this.  So, she's super pissed because she knows I have extra money and just won't help her out.  WTF. 


mm1970

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 6342
Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #1038 on: December 18, 2018, 02:13:26 PM »
I'm truly over the whole MLM business.  Someone I know, who I thought was a good friend, sells for a couple of MLMs.  She knows I am not interested, but recently has found herself in even bigger financial trouble.  She's always been in financial trouble, but I guess she wants Christmas money for her kids.  She makes over $75k a year in a very CHEAP area of the country.  It's a spending problem not an income problem. 

So, now she pressures me again a few days ago.  She is also selling knock-off clothing and handbags.  I want no part of any of this.  So, she's super pissed because she knows I have extra money and just won't help her out.  WTF.
But it's YOUR money.  You get to spend it as you like!

I'm a red panda

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 7889
  • Location: United States
Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #1039 on: December 18, 2018, 02:48:03 PM »
I'm truly over the whole MLM business.  Someone I know, who I thought was a good friend, sells for a couple of MLMs.  She knows I am not interested, but recently has found herself in even bigger financial trouble.  She's always been in financial trouble, but I guess she wants Christmas money for her kids.  She makes over $75k a year in a very CHEAP area of the country.  It's a spending problem not an income problem. 

So, now she pressures me again a few days ago.  She is also selling knock-off clothing and handbags.  I want no part of any of this.  So, she's super pissed because she knows I have extra money and just won't help her out.  WTF.

1) Ugh. That is not a friend.

2) What MLM sells knock off clothing and handbags?

Rockne

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 9
Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #1040 on: December 20, 2018, 09:53:55 AM »
Got a "Scout and Cellar" insert in a Christmas card we received, from friends who should know better (highly educated, great, high paying jobs). I'm at a loss.

Goldielocks

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 6087
  • Location: BC
Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #1041 on: January 01, 2019, 12:32:25 PM »
Best Christmas ever this year from the in-laws.  ZERO MLM stuff.   SIL finally quit it last year, and therefore MIL no longer buys tons of stuff from her to gift us.

That's right folks, instead of another stuffed animal or bath scent product, my DS, age 16 actually got a movie gift certficate.  DH did NOT get $100 of room fragrance again (when he is chemically sensitive, and you know, a guy)... but received chocolate that he loves,large box of firewood (split by his dad), and a local craft ornament (that was inexpensive, looks nice, and helped out a local artist). 

BEST EVER!   Just say NO to the MLM's.... your friends and family are the ones propping you up.

sparkytheop

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 753

peabody58

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 30
  • Age: 61
  • Location: South of Atlanta
  • FIRE 04/2015 @ 57
Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #1043 on: January 25, 2019, 12:05:09 PM »
For those you aren't aware, Dexter Yager of Amway fame, passed away 1/6/19.  When we were involved with Amway 95-01, we got to meet and spend some quality one on one time with him and Birdie.  I've always been very grateful for those opportunities.  No we didn't get rich from Amway, and we spent a lot of the 'support system'.  However, we do believe that our lives are better for the experience and that what we learned about ourselves and money eventually lead us to FIRE 4 years ago.

https://www.legacy.com/obituaries/charlotte/obituary.aspx?n=dexter-r-yager&pid=191230147&fhid=4562

Beard N Bones

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 145
  • Location: Canada
Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #1044 on: January 28, 2019, 09:14:39 AM »
For those you aren't aware, Dexter Yager of Amway fame, passed away 1/6/19.  When we were involved with Amway 95-01, we got to meet and spend some quality one on one time with him and Birdie.  I've always been very grateful for those opportunities.  No we didn't get rich from Amway, and we spent a lot of the 'support system'.  However, we do believe that our lives are better for the experience and that what we learned about ourselves and money eventually lead us to FIRE 4 years ago.

https://www.legacy.com/obituaries/charlotte/obituary.aspx?n=dexter-r-yager&pid=191230147&fhid=4562

The following was the actual conversation I had in my head when reading this...

READING...  when we were involved with Amway.  Oh man, I feel sorry for this couple. 
READING...  No we didn't get rich from Amway.  Yeah, no doubt!  MLM's are the most malicious scam out there!  I wonder how much money they lost to the scam?! 
READING...  and we spent a lot of the 'support system'.   Oh no doubt!  It's a no win situation.  You pay, and pay, and pay again.  You just can't win. 
READING...  However, we do believe that our lives are better for the experience and that what we learned about ourselves and money eventually lead us to FIRE 4 years ago.   WHA..  WAIT A SEC.  Did I just read that wrong?! 
REREADING!...  However, we do believe that our lives are better for the experience and that what we learned about ourselves and money eventually lead us to FIRE 4 years ago.   Stunned.  Brain processing.  Processing. Processing.  Shock.  Okay self, pick your chin up off the floor and close your mouth.  Shake your head.  There must be something missing in all this.  This guy must be a shill.  Yep, that's it!  Let's check to see @peabody58  previous posts to confirm.  [I proceed to check out peabody 58 previous posts.]  Wha!  No this guy is serious.  Well, now I gotta click on the provided link.  [Clicks on link.  Reads obituary info.]  Geez, this guy is a serious as measles.  SO... MANY...  QUESTIONS...

@peabody58  Question...  knowing Amway (and other MLMs) are scams - how did that experience and what you learned about yourself help you retire "early"?  Certainly you didn't make any money with Amway.  What did you gain from that experience that helped?  Hoping this doesn't come across rude, but.... was it learning that losing money doesn't allow you to save money?  I'm genuinely interested in knowing how Amway allowed you to retire "early".

sparkytheop

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 753
Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #1045 on: January 28, 2019, 09:21:27 PM »
For those you aren't aware, Dexter Yager of Amway fame, passed away 1/6/19.  When we were involved with Amway 95-01, we got to meet and spend some quality one on one time with him and Birdie.  I've always been very grateful for those opportunities.  No we didn't get rich from Amway, and we spent a lot of the 'support system'.  However, we do believe that our lives are better for the experience and that what we learned about ourselves and money eventually lead us to FIRE 4 years ago.

https://www.legacy.com/obituaries/charlotte/obituary.aspx?n=dexter-r-yager&pid=191230147&fhid=4562

The following was the actual conversation I had in my head when reading this...

READING...  when we were involved with Amway.  Oh man, I feel sorry for this couple. 
READING...  No we didn't get rich from Amway.  Yeah, no doubt!  MLM's are the most malicious scam out there!  I wonder how much money they lost to the scam?! 
READING...  and we spent a lot of the 'support system'.   Oh no doubt!  It's a no win situation.  You pay, and pay, and pay again.  You just can't win. 
READING...  However, we do believe that our lives are better for the experience and that what we learned about ourselves and money eventually lead us to FIRE 4 years ago.   WHA..  WAIT A SEC.  Did I just read that wrong?! 
REREADING!...  However, we do believe that our lives are better for the experience and that what we learned about ourselves and money eventually lead us to FIRE 4 years ago.   Stunned.  Brain processing.  Processing. Processing.  Shock.  Okay self, pick your chin up off the floor and close your mouth.  Shake your head.  There must be something missing in all this. 

I'm still back here.  Too shocked to look up the user or think anything more than "you are in the wrong place". 

I'm almost finished with the "Merchants of Deception" book.  The book is interesting, but I still have not been able to grasp why this would ever be something to consider joining.  Even the "buy from yourself" draw that was used just does not make sense to me.  How can you earn money by spending more money on items you "buy from yourself".  And that's before dumping money into "motivational" tools.


Proud Foot

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 973
Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #1046 on: January 29, 2019, 07:57:40 AM »
For those you aren't aware, Dexter Yager of Amway fame, passed away 1/6/19.  When we were involved with Amway 95-01, we got to meet and spend some quality one on one time with him and Birdie.  I've always been very grateful for those opportunities.  No we didn't get rich from Amway, and we spent a lot of the 'support system'.  However, we do believe that our lives are better for the experience and that what we learned about ourselves and money eventually lead us to FIRE 4 years ago.

https://www.legacy.com/obituaries/charlotte/obituary.aspx?n=dexter-r-yager&pid=191230147&fhid=4562

The following was the actual conversation I had in my head when reading this...

READING...  when we were involved with Amway.  Oh man, I feel sorry for this couple. 
READING...  No we didn't get rich from Amway.  Yeah, no doubt!  MLM's are the most malicious scam out there!  I wonder how much money they lost to the scam?! 
READING...  and we spent a lot of the 'support system'.   Oh no doubt!  It's a no win situation.  You pay, and pay, and pay again.  You just can't win. 
READING...  However, we do believe that our lives are better for the experience and that what we learned about ourselves and money eventually lead us to FIRE 4 years ago.   WHA..  WAIT A SEC.  Did I just read that wrong?! 
REREADING!...  However, we do believe that our lives are better for the experience and that what we learned about ourselves and money eventually lead us to FIRE 4 years ago.   Stunned.  Brain processing.  Processing. Processing.  Shock.  Okay self, pick your chin up off the floor and close your mouth.  Shake your head.  There must be something missing in all this. 

I'm still back here.  Too shocked to look up the user or think anything more than "you are in the wrong place". 

I'm almost finished with the "Merchants of Deception" book.  The book is interesting, but I still have not been able to grasp why this would ever be something to consider joining.  Even the "buy from yourself" draw that was used just does not make sense to me.  How can you earn money by spending more money on items you "buy from yourself".  And that's before dumping money into "motivational" tools.

I take it neither of you two have learned and bettered yourself through a bad experience? Yes, MLMs are super scammy and a bad financial decision for most people I think you would be naive to think it is impossible to better yourself through the experience of an MLM. Even as small as the realization you are horrible as a salesperson/recruiter and should find a career doing something else.

I am interested in hearing how their Amway experience bettered their lives and what they learned about themselves and money to lead them to FIRE.

jinga nation

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1069
  • Location: 'Murica's Johnson
  • Left, Right, Peddlin' Shite
Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #1047 on: January 29, 2019, 08:26:21 AM »
For those you aren't aware, Dexter Yager of Amway fame, passed away 1/6/19.  When we were involved with Amway 95-01, we got to meet and spend some quality one on one time with him and Birdie.  I've always been very grateful for those opportunities.  No we didn't get rich from Amway, and we spent a lot of the 'support system'.  However, we do believe that our lives are better for the experience and that what we learned about ourselves and money eventually lead us to FIRE 4 years ago.

https://www.legacy.com/obituaries/charlotte/obituary.aspx?n=dexter-r-yager&pid=191230147&fhid=4562

The following was the actual conversation I had in my head when reading this...

READING...  when we were involved with Amway.  Oh man, I feel sorry for this couple. 
READING...  No we didn't get rich from Amway.  Yeah, no doubt!  MLM's are the most malicious scam out there!  I wonder how much money they lost to the scam?! 
READING...  and we spent a lot of the 'support system'.   Oh no doubt!  It's a no win situation.  You pay, and pay, and pay again.  You just can't win. 
READING...  However, we do believe that our lives are better for the experience and that what we learned about ourselves and money eventually lead us to FIRE 4 years ago.   WHA..  WAIT A SEC.  Did I just read that wrong?! 
REREADING!...  However, we do believe that our lives are better for the experience and that what we learned about ourselves and money eventually lead us to FIRE 4 years ago.   Stunned.  Brain processing.  Processing. Processing.  Shock.  Okay self, pick your chin up off the floor and close your mouth.  Shake your head.  There must be something missing in all this. 

I'm still back here.  Too shocked to look up the user or think anything more than "you are in the wrong place". 

I'm almost finished with the "Merchants of Deception" book.  The book is interesting, but I still have not been able to grasp why this would ever be something to consider joining.  Even the "buy from yourself" draw that was used just does not make sense to me.  How can you earn money by spending more money on items you "buy from yourself".  And that's before dumping money into "motivational" tools.

I take it neither of you two have learned and bettered yourself through a bad experience? Yes, MLMs are super scammy and a bad financial decision for most people I think you would be naive to think it is impossible to better yourself through the experience of an MLM. Even as small as the realization you are horrible as a salesperson/recruiter and should find a career doing something else.

I am interested in hearing how their Amway experience bettered their lives and what they learned about themselves and money to lead them to FIRE.

Same here. But I'm assuming @peabody58 joined Amway early on and the benefits that come with that.

I personally know someone who got on early in ItWorks. He's a former medical sales rep, doesn't personally trust ItWorks, but as long as there are suckers who demand this product in UK and Europe, he's fine raking it in. He was one of the first  in the UK, so now he's got a load of people under him, maybe a couple of levels down. On the flip side his wife divorced him when he quit his well-paying job for ItWorks.

peabody58

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 30
  • Age: 61
  • Location: South of Atlanta
  • FIRE 04/2015 @ 57
Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #1048 on: January 29, 2019, 11:31:07 AM »
Question...  knowing Amway (and other MLMs) are scams - how did that experience and what you learned about yourself help you retire "early"?  Certainly you didn't make any money with Amway.  What did you gain from that experience that helped?  Hoping this doesn't come across rude, but.... was it learning that losing money doesn't allow you to save money?  I'm genuinely interested in knowing how Amway allowed you to retire "early".

Fair enough questions and I fully expected these kind of MMM perspectives.  I'm not here to defend the MLM systems, but instead to provide my perspective on how I consider or 'rational' a positive from our experience.  And I readily acknowledge that my experience may not match others.

If there was only one road to finding the path to FIRE or happiness, then sadly most of use would be truly screwed.  I look at our Amway business period as one of many possible roads that I happened upon and chose to travel.  The Amway support system was a learning environment which was lacking in my life.  My AS, BS and MS with a Thesis certainly didn't teach me what I needed to do to reach FIRE.  8 years in nuclear submarines certainly didn't.  So lets talk about the experience and learning's that helped me.

It's true, financially we didn't get rich.  But we also didn't go broke or become desperate.  We had a great support system (up-line) who always put our needs before the business.  We 'learned' to budget and control our costs to allow us to participate in the program.  We had a great time going places, meeting new people, expanding our awareness of life around us and what was possible.  We 'learned' how to use the tax system work to our advantage and this in turn helped us to reduce our overall costs.  My records show that over our 9 year active Amway period, we spent ~$14,800 and brought in ~$4,000.  Hence a 'loss' of $10,800 over 9 yrs, or ~$1,200 yr.   And this was before any tax write offs.  To account for this loss, we adjusted vacation $$ to the business (and still got to travel), cut out cable extras, and 'learned' that we didn't need a new car every few years.  To our surprise, despite the business not making us millionaires overnight, our year to year finances were slowly improving.

And while 'learning' during these 9 years, we were encouraged by our support group (up-line) to ramp up our savings, both in retirement and non-retirement accounts.  This forced me to really 'learn' about my 401K plan, quickly realizing I was leaving money on the table, and that my investment selections were not optimal for our goals.  A vast amount of the funds we saved during these 9 yrs went a long way to our FIRE in 2015.

One very important thing we 'learned' from the Amway business was about ourselves.  I'll be honest, we were not in a good stable relationship.  Couples therapy was just one long drawn out agony, not to mention the cost (which was more that $1,200 a year sometimes).  And yes, it was tough trying to do the business and having marital issues.  Slowly we started seeing changes in ourselves, and how we valued each others support and input.  The time we spent together highlighted our faults but magnified our strengths and blessings.  We included our kids as much as possible in the business trips, and they grew and strengthened as we got our relationship shit together.  We recognized that we were blessed and worked hard to keep the positive improvements moving forward.  Bumps in the road (even now) are cushioned by what we 'learned' in the system.   The Amway support system came at the right time for us and we truly believe that without it, we would have divorced in a few short years.   Divorce can ruin many chances of FIRE, and I know of many divorced friends, family and co-workers who have to post-pone their retirement goals due to the financial impact that it creates.  Or as my wife likes to kid me now:  I was too cheap to get divorced!

Shortly after 9/11, our Amway business suffered, we lost some great up-line (support), and our heart just wasn't in it anymore.  We let the business limp on till around 2004 when we dropped out for good.  We actively  took what we had 'learned' about life, finances, dreams, and each other; and set new and exciting goals for ourselves.  The Amway business/support system was our School of Hard Knocks, and it only cost us $10,800 for both of us.  Compare that to a college degree these days.  So from 2002 until FIRE in 2015 (4 years ahead of schedule), we became mini-mustaches without even knowing about MMM (until later).

In retrospect,  from 1982 (married) to 1995 (joined Amway), we wasted/lost so much money from frequent bad new auto purchases, bad stock buys (get rich quick $5K Alaskan Apollo Gold Mines), over the top vacations, unnecessary luxury's (indoor hot tub), and poor retirement planning to name a few.  Easily $4-6K yr.  From 1995-2002 (active Amway period), we cut our expenses and only spent $1,400 yr investing in ourselves.  We also improved our savings, saved our marriage and despite the struggle, can look back fondly on the good times we had.  From 2002-2015, we became a lean mean saving machine.  And we still made time and $$ for fun things to build upon.  My wife was able to pursue her spiritual passion and became a pastor.  She attributes the Amway experience to giving her the belief in herself and strength to complete the process.  In 2015, the stars aligned and we went for it.  All the pre-planning paid off, and here we are 4 years later, still financially secure, healthy and enjoying our retirement and all that it offers.  It only took $10,800 of 'learning', 20 years of delayed gratification, and a lot of hard work.

Again, this was my path, my road to FIRE.  Your mileage and experiences may vary.  Would I do it again?  Knowing what I know now, no.  But how does one get to where they know what they know now without not knowing what they didn't know then?

I hope this reflection upon how I Amway'd, survived, and still FIRE'd provides the insight the dis-believers are seeking.  Please stay classy with your comments and rebukes.  And if you can't, at least include an emoji.  Either way, that's my story and I'm sticking to it.

And to add fire to the FIRE, my darling wife and I will be celebrating our 37th anniversary this Oct at Walt Disney World (our happy place) using our DVC timeshare (oh the horror...) at Bay Lake Towers and our Annual Pass (women and children passing out)!!  But....  before you flame me for such an anti-MMM frivolous spending behavior, I at least booked the lowest cost studio (very MMM) and the Annual Pass was bought 8 yrs ago (part of the plan) and has appreciated in value 79% so far (extreme MMM), which will make each park visit for our 30 days of visits at Disney only ~$14.40 per person (mind blown MMM).

PS - be sure to see the POMS movie with Diane Keaton this Mother's Day weekend.  It was filmed in the 55+ community where we live now in Georgia.  If the water volleyball footage makes it into the movie, I'm the one looking all buff and sexy! (and bald).


sparkytheop

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 753
Re: No, I won't buy into your MLM
« Reply #1049 on: January 29, 2019, 12:35:31 PM »
For those you aren't aware, Dexter Yager of Amway fame, passed away 1/6/19.  When we were involved with Amway 95-01, we got to meet and spend some quality one on one time with him and Birdie.  I've always been very grateful for those opportunities.  No we didn't get rich from Amway, and we spent a lot of the 'support system'.  However, we do believe that our lives are better for the experience and that what we learned about ourselves and money eventually lead us to FIRE 4 years ago.

https://www.legacy.com/obituaries/charlotte/obituary.aspx?n=dexter-r-yager&pid=191230147&fhid=4562

The following was the actual conversation I had in my head when reading this...

READING...  when we were involved with Amway.  Oh man, I feel sorry for this couple. 
READING...  No we didn't get rich from Amway.  Yeah, no doubt!  MLM's are the most malicious scam out there!  I wonder how much money they lost to the scam?! 
READING...  and we spent a lot of the 'support system'.   Oh no doubt!  It's a no win situation.  You pay, and pay, and pay again.  You just can't win. 
READING...  However, we do believe that our lives are better for the experience and that what we learned about ourselves and money eventually lead us to FIRE 4 years ago.   WHA..  WAIT A SEC.  Did I just read that wrong?! 
REREADING!...  However, we do believe that our lives are better for the experience and that what we learned about ourselves and money eventually lead us to FIRE 4 years ago.   Stunned.  Brain processing.  Processing. Processing.  Shock.  Okay self, pick your chin up off the floor and close your mouth.  Shake your head.  There must be something missing in all this. 

I'm still back here.  Too shocked to look up the user or think anything more than "you are in the wrong place". 

I'm almost finished with the "Merchants of Deception" book.  The book is interesting, but I still have not been able to grasp why this would ever be something to consider joining.  Even the "buy from yourself" draw that was used just does not make sense to me.  How can you earn money by spending more money on items you "buy from yourself".  And that's before dumping money into "motivational" tools.

I take it neither of you two have learned and bettered yourself through a bad experience? Yes, MLMs are super scammy and a bad financial decision for most people I think you would be naive to think it is impossible to better yourself through the experience of an MLM. Even as small as the realization you are horrible as a salesperson/recruiter and should find a career doing something else.

I am interested in hearing how their Amway experience bettered their lives and what they learned about themselves and money to lead them to FIRE.

Interesting that is what you got out of my post (the bolded).  I just think the post was a bit too pro-MLM on a very anti-MLM thread.

The later post went into more depth.