The Money Mustache Community
Around the Internet => Antimustachian Wall of Shame and Comedy => Topic started by: SoccerLounge on November 30, 2016, 09:11:39 PM
-
So I'm in the process of moving house right now, and am inching toward finalizing the mortgage for the new place. Recently, I got one of those emails that asks for a couple extra pieces of evidence for the underwriters. Pretty standard stuff. Except for one of them, which I found extremely amusing and wanted to share with you all:
"2. The underwriters have a question concerning your transportation status. You sold your {car} on {date} this year per the deposits to your bank. But the underwriters do not see a current lien or otherwise active auto loan on your credit reports to indicate current ownership of a vehicle. Please explain this omission in writing."
Yep: the only acceptable way one can own a vehicle is by taking out a loan to buy one. And this loan must remain active, and never be paid off. Otherwise? Well, you're probably one of those people, and need to submit a special explanation, lest your mortgage not be approved. (After all, those people do things like pay off mortgages early and cost us interest profits, and we can't have that...)
PS: In my letter of reply, I was tempted to only talk about my bicycle and not even mention my cash-purchased economy car. But I didn't feel like losing the mortgage over giving into the temptation to snark about idiotic financial assumptions. That's what this forum is for, after all. ;)
-
Wow.
-
Hilarious!
-
Amazing. And here I was beginning to think, given the growing numbers of Mustachians in this forum, that a quiet revolution was taking place.
Then again, MMM himself has an auto loan.
-
That's crazy! We've never had a car loan and never had trouble with underwriting.
-
Very weird indeed. I did not realize that having a car loan had become so normal that everyone is supposed to have one.
When we were buying our house, we had to write down for the broker how we were thinking to finance the house. That financing plan did not include a mortgage on the new house. I had expected questions about that, but they didn't come, strangely enough.
-
Put down the pitchforks, guys. This sort of due diligence is what these guys are supposed to be doing. The reason for the inquiry is they want to make sure that you didn't have a family member purchase the car on behalf of you so you could keep the loan off of your credit report, or that you are planning to obtain a new loan the week after you buy the house, or other shadiness/things that might affect your credit worthiness. People got all bent out of shape when underwriters acted as a pump instead of a filter, now that they're trying to at least appear like a filter again you're all getting all indignant. I swear half of Mustachianism is griping about how "no one notices I'm a more responsible person than them" and the other half is complaining "someone noticed I did something different and now they're asking about it!" A simple two-line response about "I purchased XXX car in cash on YYY date for which you can see the withdrawl on bank statement ZZZ" will suffice.
-
The next level is where the mortgage team says, "You're listing two incomes on this application, but we only see one car loan. How is the second worker getting to their job?"
-
I was thinking along the same lines as Chris22. Suppose I sold my car for $12,000 cash prior to securing a mortgage to help fund the down payment and remove an outstanding loan from my credit report. Then immediately after closing, I buy another car with 100% financing. I'm not necessarily as credit-worthy as I originally appeared, am I? I think this is a legitimate question to ask depending on when the car sale took place.
-
The next level is where the mortgage team says, "You're listing two incomes on this application, but we only see one car loan. How is the second worker getting to their job?"
So what if they do? If they deny you a loan, that's one thing, but don't you think that's a perfectly responsible question to inquire about?
-
Put down the pitchforks, guys. This sort of due diligence is what these guys are supposed to be doing.
Party pooper.
-
Chris22, I think I agree with about 99.99% of your posts. This one is no different.
We were asked a couple of similar questions on our mortgage application. I think ours was something along the lines of "How many vehicles do you own" and "How do you own them" with options to select 0-5, and Lease, Own with loan, or own outright.
And I think we did have to show the receipt for the vehicle, because I paid cash and it showed on my bank statements as a gigantic withdrawal and no subsequent deposit.
Hell, I even think that we had a question asking if there were any loans on anything else "including lawnmowers, appliances, electronics" etc. Also not a crazy question.
-
I've never heard of a lawnmower loan... I should really learn how to capitalize on leverage
-
I've never heard of a lawnmower loan... I should really learn how to capitalize on leverage
http://www.cubcadet.com/equipment/cubcadet/apply-financing
-
Hell, I even think that we had a question asking if there were any loans on anything else "including lawnmowers, appliances, electronics" etc. Also not a crazy question.
... Electronics loan??
I mean, I noticed that the local store offered a "0% financing or 15% off!" deal (it's not 0% in that case, but anyway) on appliances... but electronics?? WTF do you need that you need to finance so badly??
-
Hell, I even think that we had a question asking if there were any loans on anything else "including lawnmowers, appliances, electronics" etc. Also not a crazy question.
... Electronics loan??
I mean, I noticed that the local store offered a "0% financing or 15% off!" deal (it's not 0% in that case, but anyway) on appliances... but electronics?? WTF do you need that you need to finance so badly??
I owe ~$1.5k on the electronics in my basement (TV and surround sound) at this moment. It's at 0%. I could have easily taken money out of savings and run it as a debit, but instead I had an open line of credit at the store (was the same one I bought all my appliances from, also at 0%) so I used it, and I'll just make $300 payments or whatever for a few months until the loan is gone. It's laziness, but harmless laziness.
FYI, there was no "or 15% off!" discount offered, it was 0% financing or nothing.
-
Hell, I even think that we had a question asking if there were any loans on anything else "including lawnmowers, appliances, electronics" etc. Also not a crazy question.
... Electronics loan??
I mean, I noticed that the local store offered a "0% financing or 15% off!" deal (it's not 0% in that case, but anyway) on appliances... but electronics?? WTF do you need that you need to finance so badly??
The only thing I've ever needed "to finance so badly" was my house. And even that, I didn't need to finance because I could have rented if I wanted to.
And yet, I've financed a vacation on a credit card (points+0% for 13 months), a large Christmas gift purchase at a store (mostly donated toys), and I'm not including anything that is normally on my credit card. Debt is a very valuable tool. If someone is offering me 0% financing on a large purchase, there is a decent chance I'll take it.
There is a difference between buying something because there is financing available, and using financing because it is available. And the lenders know that too--but that is why they ask the questions.
-
I mean...our lord and savior himself espouses efficiency in the highest regard, as evidenced by his most recent blog post. Nothing wrong with financing at 0% for something you were going to buy anyways.
We're going through the mortgage process now and nothing strikes me as too "anti-mustachian." In fact, I posted in my journal about how it's much easier than I expected*. Are they really just giving out mortgages willy-nilly? I'd almost prefer a little more scrutiny.
*At this point I've only been asked to provide 2 paystubs for each of us and an insurance policy binder. We haven't had to answer any questions about transportation or bank account activity at all.
-
I mean...our lord and savior himself espouses efficiency in the highest regard, as evidenced by his most recent blog post. Nothing wrong with financing at 0% for something you were going to buy anyways.
We're going through the mortgage process now and nothing strikes me as too "anti-mustachian." In fact, I posted in my journal about how it's much easier than I expected*. Are they really just giving out mortgages willy-nilly? I'd almost prefer a little more scrutiny.
*At this point I've only been asked to provide 2 paystubs for each of us and an insurance policy binder. We haven't had to answer any questions about transportation or bank account activity at all.
You probably will have to eventually. When we first started the application it was incredibly easy, and our preapproval was done in minutes with only 1 paystub each. After the preapproval and the offer, we had to provide bank statements and paystubs going back 2 months, tax returns, and something else that was a pain in the butt but I can't remember right now. Maybe prior employers certification that I worked there? I seem to remember that being difficult.
-
I mean...our lord and savior himself espouses efficiency in the highest regard, as evidenced by his most recent blog post. Nothing wrong with financing at 0% for something you were going to buy anyways.
We're going through the mortgage process now and nothing strikes me as too "anti-mustachian." In fact, I posted in my journal about how it's much easier than I expected*. Are they really just giving out mortgages willy-nilly? I'd almost prefer a little more scrutiny.
*At this point I've only been asked to provide 2 paystubs for each of us and an insurance policy binder. We haven't had to answer any questions about transportation or bank account activity at all.
You probably will have to eventually. When we first started the application it was incredibly easy, and our preapproval was done in minutes with only 1 paystub each. After the preapproval and the offer, we had to provide bank statements and paystubs going back 2 months, tax returns, and something else that was a pain in the butt but I can't remember right now. Maybe prior employers certification that I worked there? I seem to remember that being difficult.
When we bought our current house, we were staying with family and saving VERY aggressively. So aggressively that we had huge portions of our paychecks directed into savings, and would occasionally run checking into the red so it was covered by our overdraft line of credit. No big deal, just move money back to cover and repay the LOC immediately. But the mortgage co. found that VERY concerning, so I had to write a letter and get on a call with them to explain, look, I have $XX,XXX in my savings account, $X,XXX more is going in every week, yes, sometimes, I spend a little more on the weekend than I thought and have to move it back to cover on Monday. BFD.
-
Pre-approval was insanely easy for me, the actual mortgage process required a lot more paperwork. I know they called my employer to ensure that I would be employed for the forseeable future and did more checks.
-
So I'm in the process of moving house right now, and am inching toward finalizing the mortgage for the new place. Recently, I got one of those emails that asks for a couple extra pieces of evidence for the underwriters. Pretty standard stuff. Except for one of them, which I found extremely amusing and wanted to share with you all:
"2. The underwriters have a question concerning your transportation status. You sold your {car} on {date} this year per the deposits to your bank. But the underwriters do not see a current lien or otherwise active auto loan on your credit reports to indicate current ownership of a vehicle. Please explain this omission in writing."
Yep: the only acceptable way one can own a vehicle is by taking out a loan to buy one. And this loan must remain active, and never be paid off. Otherwise? Well, you're probably one of those people, and need to submit a special explanation, lest your mortgage not be approved. (After all, those people do things like pay off mortgages early and cost us interest profits, and we can't have that...)
PS: In my letter of reply, I was tempted to only talk about my bicycle and not even mention my cash-purchased economy car. But I didn't feel like losing the mortgage over giving into the temptation to snark about idiotic financial assumptions. That's what this forum is for, after all. ;)
The underwriter didn't care if you had a car or not. He cared on whether or not you were reporting all your debts to him. It's not crazy for an underwriter to want to make sure you are reporting all your debts.
-
I wish it were always so simply as a 15% discount OR 0% financing. God, I'd love that 15% discount.
-
I mean...our lord and savior himself espouses efficiency in the highest regard, as evidenced by his most recent blog post. Nothing wrong with financing at 0% for something you were going to buy anyways.
We're going through the mortgage process now and nothing strikes me as too "anti-mustachian." In fact, I posted in my journal about how it's much easier than I expected*. Are they really just giving out mortgages willy-nilly? I'd almost prefer a little more scrutiny.
*At this point I've only been asked to provide 2 paystubs for each of us and an insurance policy binder. We haven't had to answer any questions about transportation or bank account activity at all.
Recently bought a house, and the mortgage process was still simple and easy (with ~800 credit). It was actually much, much easier than getting approved for renting an apartment, which was much more invasive.
The mortgage company just wanted 2-3 months worth of bank statements and 2 paystubs. The rental company wanted 2 years of tax returns, bank statements, paystubs, etc.
-
"2. The underwriters have a question concerning your transportation status. You sold your {car} on {date} this year per the deposits to your bank. But the underwriters do not see a current lien or otherwise active auto loan on your credit reports to indicate current ownership of a vehicle. Please explain this omission in writing."
I agree with the point that the underwriters are doing their jobs, but the phrasing of the email is suggestive that they cannot fathom the lack of car loan or even a lack of car. "to indicate current ownership of a vehicle" does suggest that no lien or loan means no car. "Please explain this omission in writing" is pretty funny.
It would have been less note worthy if they'd simply said 'you sold your car and we don't see a loan for a new car, can you please confirm if you have taken out a car loan and if so provide the details'
-
"2. The underwriters have a question concerning your transportation status. You sold your {car} on {date} this year per the deposits to your bank. But the underwriters do not see a current lien or otherwise active auto loan on your credit reports to indicate current ownership of a vehicle. Please explain this omission in writing."
I agree with the point that the underwriters are doing their jobs, but the phrasing of the email is suggestive that they cannot fathom the lack of car loan or even a lack of car. "to indicate current ownership of a vehicle" does suggest that no lien or loan means no car. "Please explain this omission in writing" is pretty funny.
It would have been less note worthy if they'd simply said 'you sold your car and we don't see a loan for a new car, can you please confirm if you have taken out a car loan and if so provide the details'
I wonder if it would annoy people as much if they said " But the underwriters do not see a current lien or otherwise active auto loan on your credit reports or a large cash withdrawl suggesting a purchase."
-
"2. The underwriters have a question concerning your transportation status. You sold your {car} on {date} this year per the deposits to your bank. But the underwriters do not see a current lien or otherwise active auto loan on your credit reports to indicate current ownership of a vehicle. Please explain this omission in writing."
I agree with the point that the underwriters are doing their jobs, but the phrasing of the email is suggestive that they cannot fathom the lack of car loan or even a lack of car. "to indicate current ownership of a vehicle" does suggest that no lien or loan means no car. "Please explain this omission in writing" is pretty funny.
It would have been less note worthy if they'd simply said 'you sold your car and we don't see a loan for a new car, can you please confirm if you have taken out a car loan and if so provide the details'
Despite the phrasing it's still an overreaction. It's exceedingly rare for someone to sell their only car and not buy a replacement. Much more rare than simply not having one. An underwriter's job is to ensure you aren't trying to "cook the books" to make yourself financial situation look better (for example, by having someone else take a loan out for you). Any objective look at the situation would lead to enough reasonable suspicion to request clarification. The underwriter isn't making a qualitative judgment on your life choices, they are trying to prevent fraud.
-
Chris22, I think I agree with about 99.99% of your posts.
I had that thought about Chris22 last week. :D
-
Actually, this is interesting because my credit took a 10-12 point hit because I had not used my credit cards frequently enough. They said that using the cards and paying it off is better than accounts being stationary. (I was only using one card because the rewards were so much better). I put a little bit on each card and now my credit is better than ever.
Now it states that my credit is negatively affected because I have too much money on my credit cards, haha CAN THEY MAKE UP THEIR FREAKING MINDS!
Tighter lending is actually a good thing for everyone in the long run though. The more layers of protection the better. It is annoying in the heat of the moment though.
-
I owe ~$1.5k on the electronics in my basement (TV and surround sound) at this moment. It's at 0%. I could have easily taken money out of savings and run it as a debit, but instead I had an open line of credit at the store (was the same one I bought all my appliances from, also at 0%) so I used it, and I'll just make $300 payments or whatever for a few months until the loan is gone. It's laziness, but harmless laziness.
FYI, there was no "or 15% off!" discount offered, it was 0% financing or nothing.
$1.5k on entertainment?
You heathen!
-
I owe ~$1.5k on the electronics in my basement (TV and surround sound) at this moment. It's at 0%. I could have easily taken money out of savings and run it as a debit, but instead I had an open line of credit at the store (was the same one I bought all my appliances from, also at 0%) so I used it, and I'll just make $300 payments or whatever for a few months until the loan is gone. It's laziness, but harmless laziness.
FYI, there was no "or 15% off!" discount offered, it was 0% financing or nothing.
$1.5k on entertainment?
You heathen!
Better yet, it was a stereo system for his sports cars that isn't even his daily driver! OH THE HORROR!
-
I will have to head off the various amusing posts implying that I am a frothing-at-the-mouth frugality zealot by simply indicating that upon contact for clarification, it was confirmed that the underwriter did, in fact, think I probably didn't own another car just because I didn't have an active auto loan. (Their underlying concern was that I couldn't get to and from work to pay my mortgage, which is a fairly reasonable concern in itself.) The fact I simply owned another car outright apparently didn't occur to them until I politely pointed it out.
I'm not going to get into more detail to justify my amusement because, frankly, I don't feel like revealing all my personal status and financial information to the forum! Skeptical readers will just have to accept my word that it was something of an unusual and unreasonable request given my particular circumstances, even by the usual standards of mortgage underwriting. My lender was very surprised by it, that's for sure. I will just say this: I feel that the original question reflects less on the underwriter, who I'm sure was just trying to protect the lender as they should, and more on a culture in which borrowing large amounts of money to buy cars is so commonplace as to throw up a red flag if someone isn't doing it.
-
I owe ~$1.5k on the electronics in my basement (TV and surround sound) at this moment. It's at 0%. I could have easily taken money out of savings and run it as a debit, but instead I had an open line of credit at the store (was the same one I bought all my appliances from, also at 0%) so I used it, and I'll just make $300 payments or whatever for a few months until the loan is gone. It's laziness, but harmless laziness.
FYI, there was no "or 15% off!" discount offered, it was 0% financing or nothing.
$1.5k on entertainment?
You heathen!
Better yet, it was a stereo system for his sports cars that isn't even his daily driver! OH THE HORROR!
No no, the sports car has a much cheaper stereo system. This was for a 55" TV and matching sound bar for my basement.
Note custom made reclaimed wood shelf made by a friend.
-
:)
We also spent about $1k this year for a TV and TV stand so I can't really judge here :D
-
I like how the guy in Chris's photo is shaking his finger at him in all the glory of a 55" TV.
It's like he is face punching you on a large scale. METRIC MOUSE! This is what I was joking about in that thread, haha
-
Hey man, 55" is small potatoes these days :P. I woulda gone bigger but that's all the wall space I had.
-
Hey man, 55" is small potatoes these days :P. I woulda gone bigger but that's all the wall space I had.
Sounds like you need a bigger house for your man cave ;-)
-
In four years of marriage, DH and I have purchased four houses. Two for cash, two with mortgages. We also refinanced one rental property. OMG, in CA, they are all up in your Business! Each one was a different invasion of privacy. Yikes! We never intended to pay cash for our primary residence, but the bullshit just kept piling on. We findally looked at each other and said "Enough!" We paid cash and that was the end of that. We live in a HCOLA, had just sold two houses, so yeah, we wrote, er, procured a Cashier's Check for $928k. It was kinda crazy fun to do, but we still wish we'd grabbed some of that cheap mortgage money.
Here's an example: My brother was buying a house. On the day before closing, his lender started demanding tons of documentation that simply wasn't available. He called me, guessing I was sitting on a ton o' cash ;-)
I transferred the entire purchase price into his account the next morning. (We use the same bank.) A week later, I had all the money back. Months later, our mortgage lender just did.not.get.it. Wanted me to do tons of explanation, get a "Gift Letter", blah x3. Seems if you deviate a fraction of a degree from their definition of normal, they just freak out.
Interestingly, we were never asked about cars, but they're all older and paid for, so no recent transactions, I guess?
-
Shit, relatively quality 4K 55" TVs are like $500 these days. If you want one that's 1080p, that's cheaper. They're ... very affordable. If you need credit for a TV, you got serious shit wrong with you, though.
Also, Diane, as far as I understand, for tax purposes etc, you can lend huge sums to a family member / friend and get paid back shortly after, with no weird issues. The bank might want information for federal regulations, but I imagine you can basically tell them to fuck off.
-
We live in a HCOLA, had just sold two houses, so yeah, we wrote, er, procured a Cashier's Check for $928k.
HCOLA indeed! That would buy six of my house :)
-
We live in a HCOLA, had just sold two houses, so yeah, we wrote, er, procured a Cashier's Check for $928k.
HCOLA indeed! That would buy six of my house :)
It's a clown house, to be sure, but DH's mom has Alzheimer's and lives with us. This house suits the needs of 4 adults (including 1 college-student offspring). It also has the advantage of being 3.5 blocks from DH's work. In the Bay Area, that's worth a fortune.
My first house cost $101k. It still shocks me that we can "afford" this place. You guys, this Mustachianism stuff works, it really works.
-
I will have to head off the various amusing posts implying that I am a frothing-at-the-mouth frugality zealot by simply indicating that upon contact for clarification, it was confirmed that the underwriter did, in fact, think I probably didn't own another car just because I didn't have an active auto loan. (Their underlying concern was that I couldn't get to and from work to pay my mortgage, which is a fairly reasonable concern in itself.) The fact I simply owned another car outright apparently didn't occur to them until I politely pointed it out.
I'm not going to get into more detail to justify my amusement because, frankly, I don't feel like revealing all my personal status and financial information to the forum! Skeptical readers will just have to accept my word that it was something of an unusual and unreasonable request given my particular circumstances, even by the usual standards of mortgage underwriting. My lender was very surprised by it, that's for sure. I will just say this: I feel that the original question reflects less on the underwriter, who I'm sure was just trying to protect the lender as they should, and more on a culture in which borrowing large amounts of money to buy cars is so commonplace as to throw up a red flag if someone isn't doing it.
I believe you SoccerLounge; thanks for posting!
-
I tend to give UWs a pass here. The bank is loaning hundreds of thousands to people represented by a bunch of numbers. Asking details on things that look outside the norm seems to be a safe protocol.
-
Shit, relatively quality 4K 55" TVs are like $500 these days.
Not sure that's true outside of no-name Chinese brands or Black Friday sales. That was the middle-line (base was ~$900 and top line $2400? I think) Sony and I think I paid $1200 or so for it in October. But that came with $200 off of the matching sound bar I was planning on buying anyways.
-
Crazy... hard to believe so many people have auto loans. I cant imagine making payments on a car after not having a car payment for so long, but it was a tough habit to break at the time. Now I don't like making loan payments of any kind, mortgage payments drive me nuts and I cant wait to be done with those.
-
Crazy... hard to believe so many people have auto loans. I cant imagine making payments on a car after not having a car payment for so long, but it was a tough habit to break at the time. Now I don't like making loan payments of any kind, mortgage payments drive me nuts and I cant wait to be done with those.
I'm exactly the opposite. If I'm not making payments, I can't help but think I'm missing out on my money working harder for me elsewhere.
Its temporary of course, but I'm still enjoying my third party 2% used car loan. It was a whopping $7k. I won't pay a dime extra ahead on it.
-
Shit, relatively quality 4K 55" TVs are like $500 these days.
Not sure that's true outside of no-name Chinese brands or Black Friday sales. That was the middle-line (base was ~$900 and top line $2400? I think) Sony and I think I paid $1200 or so for it in October. But that came with $200 off of the matching sound bar I was planning on buying anyways.
I just checked on Costco.com and there's a 55" 4k Vizio for $529, plus some other deals I can't be arsed to log in to get the actual numbers.
-
Many years ago I used to work in a bank, and one day in a meeting the manager said, "Everyone has a car loan, we need to talk to them about it so we can refinance it for them." Me, "I don't have a car loan." Manager, "Right, everyone except you."
I'm exactly the opposite. If I'm not making payments, I can't help but think I'm missing out on my money working harder for me elsewhere.
Its temporary of course, but I'm still enjoying my third party 2% used car loan. It was a whopping $7k. I won't pay a dime extra ahead on it.
Leverage is great when it is <3%. I treat my mortgage the same way. No rush to pay it off. However, once interest rates start to tick up this won't be as lucrative on future loans. :(
-
Getting a mortgage on my first house was a PITA, mostly because I hadn't used credit cards and had no car loan. The bank just wouldn't accept that, even with proof of title and our account balances. We went to a mortgage broker that found some other bank that pretty much said "you're a doctor? Send us a pay stub from the hospital and we are happy". I think the difference was I told them up front about my financial situation and lack of loans. Both are "reputable" banks as far as that means anything in banking.
More recently I had to replace our cars after 14 years of loyal service (thanks chicago). Both were purchased with 2% loans. We've more than covered the lending costs with stock market gains in that time period.
-
Wow, I've never borrowed money for a car. I use credit cards for convenience and benefits, paid in full at least monthly. I was never asked about lack of buying a car I couldn't afford, but I guess it's a thing now.
-
I decided to finance a car 1st time recently. The purchase price was the same and the interest rate 2.6% sounded reasonable to me. Most of all it helps me save for a house faster while padding my brokerage acct, and build my credit report for a mortgage.
However looking back I probably added too many extras like warranties, remote start etc which I wouldn't buy if paying cash.
Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk
-
I'm exactly the opposite. If I'm not making payments, I can't help but think I'm missing out on my money working harder for me elsewhere.
Its temporary of course, but I'm still enjoying my third party 2% used car loan. It was a whopping $7k. I won't pay a dime extra ahead on it.
True, and I use to believe similar, but what I came to realize is, for me at least, monthly cashflow is king. By decrease monthly expenses, I have been able to build in more stability while working towards FIRE. Sure I could be missing out on putting that money to work, but I don't have to worry about loosing anything if I got laid off or keeping as big of a 6 month reserve account, plus I would be tempted to buy a more expense car than I really need, etc. Also, I don't like making payments, and for me, I like to be able to maximize my cashflow capabilities and pile it into my stash every month. Both ways probably get the same result, but I have better piece of mind without payments.
-
Since the housing crash, banks are going to the extreme to be careful.
I'm in the midst of purchasing my second rental. The amount of the loan is $26,000. I have twice that in cash on deposit. I own my first rental outright and my total debt load (including my new car and my mortgage) is 14% of my gross wages. My ficos are over 800 and I'm with the same employer 30 years.
The banks wants a copy of the back of the earnest money check AND a bank statement showing it was actually debited from my account. They want employment verification AND again 10 days prior to closing.
There is a new level of due diligence.
-
There is a new level of due diligence.
This was what my lending agent was saying. He was surprised, but then added "perhaps I shouldn't be - they'll ask about just about anything anymore."
-
THIS....
This was what my lending agent was saying. He was surprised, but then added "perhaps I shouldn't be - they'll ask about just about anything anymore."
...is probably one of the biggest reasons I don't borrow money unless absolutely necessary, it makes me feel like I'm having a confessional or kissing the a lords ring.
-
THIS....
This was what my lending agent was saying. He was surprised, but then added "perhaps I shouldn't be - they'll ask about just about anything anymore."
...is probably one of the biggest reasons I don't borrow money unless absolutely necessary, it makes me feel like I'm having a confessional or kissing the a lords ring.
It would probably be a better thing overall, but if more people felt like this there woud be less content for this forum.
-
THIS....
This was what my lending agent was saying. He was surprised, but then added "perhaps I shouldn't be - they'll ask about just about anything anymore."
...is probably one of the biggest reasons I don't borrow money unless absolutely necessary, it makes me feel like I'm having a confessional or kissing the a lords ring.
Hahaha, GRS, you nailed it.
Since the housing crash, banks are going to the extreme to be careful.
I'm in the midst of purchasing my second rental. The amount of the loan is $26,000. I have twice that in cash on deposit. I own my first rental outright and my total debt load (including my new car and my mortgage) is 14% of my gross wages. My ficos are over 800 and I'm with the same employer 30 years.
The banks wants a copy of the back of the earnest money check AND a bank statement showing it was actually debited from my account. They want employment verification AND again 10 days prior to closing.
There is a new level of due diligence.
There are also higher levels of incompetence, as the people who interface with the underwriters have less and less experience (because the experienced ones can't deal with the BS and move on to something less horrid). Last year, we got a mortgage through Chase, which is also our primary bank. The notary came to our house (because our agent was on vacation at Disneyland with no notice that she would be away. I cannot make this shit up.) We noticed they'd set up the loan with an impound account. Not A Chance, said we. You were told on day one we don't want one and we have it right here in writing on your letterhead. All the documents had to be re-done. Those assholes charged us for both notary visits. We were locked in at a good rate, so we paid it. However, we've purchased two more houses and re-fi'd another since then and we took our business elsewhere. Fuck you, Chase Home Lending.*
The other lender asked for the same type of documentation, but they were at least a little less ridiculous than Chase.
Whew! Thanks MMMers, I feel better for getting that off my chest.
*And drifterrider, our stats were along the same lines as yours. We could easily have paid cash, but we didn't want to.
-
THIS....
This was what my lending agent was saying. He was surprised, but then added "perhaps I shouldn't be - they'll ask about just about anything anymore."
...is probably one of the biggest reasons I don't borrow money unless absolutely necessary, it makes me feel like I'm having a confessional or kissing the a lords ring.
Hahaha, GRS, you nailed it.
Since the housing crash, banks are going to the extreme to be careful.
I'm in the midst of purchasing my second rental. The amount of the loan is $26,000. I have twice that in cash on deposit. I own my first rental outright and my total debt load (including my new car and my mortgage) is 14% of my gross wages. My ficos are over 800 and I'm with the same employer 30 years.
The banks wants a copy of the back of the earnest money check AND a bank statement showing it was actually debited from my account. They want employment verification AND again 10 days prior to closing.
There is a new level of due diligence.
There are also higher levels of incompetence, as the people who interface with the underwriters have less and less experience (because the experienced ones can't deal with the BS and move on to something less horrid). Last year, we got a mortgage through Chase, which is also our primary bank. The notary came to our house (because our agent was on vacation at Disneyland with no notice that she would be away. I cannot make this shit up.) We noticed they'd set up the loan with an impound account. Not A Chance, said we. You were told on day one we don't want one and we have it right here in writing on your letterhead. All the documents had to be re-done. Those assholes charged us for both notary visits. We were locked in at a good rate, so we paid it. However, we've purchased two more houses and re-fi'd another since then and we took our business elsewhere. Fuck you, Chase Home Lending.*
The other lender asked for the same type of documentation, but they were at least a little less ridiculous than Chase.
Whew! Thanks MMMers, I feel better for getting that off my chest.
*And drifterrider, our stats were along the same lines as yours. We could easily have paid cash, but we didn't want to.
One of the reasons I don't do business with Chase is because back when I was co-owner of a small investment real estate company with a couple of my buddies, we bought a property with a wrap mortgage that allowed for a refinancing. When the time came to refinance with Chase, they refused to approve a loan until my partners and I all signed a document asserting that none of us were in a sexual relationship with any of the others. My opinion is that such documents are grossly inappropriate in a business situation. So I wanted to make our signatures on the loan documents contingent on written proof that the president of Chase wasn't fucking anyone over a desk or in a supply cabinet, but being a minority partner I was outvoted.
-
There are also higher levels of incompetence, as the people who interface with the underwriters have less and less experience (because the experienced ones can't deal with the BS and move on to something less horrid).
Same thing is happening in engineering consulting, and the cost of construction is being impacted by it as well.... We easily have 10 times the amount of paperwork involved than we did 10yrs ago, for what? To prove we know how to fill out forms? its maddening....
-
For a recent rental property, I had to prove that I didn't own a home. The home was owned by a third party (luckily my father). He was not part of the transaction in any way. How do you go about proving you don't own something? I had to get my father to provide a utility bill in his name to prove this. Apparently the title, you know the thing that shows who owns the damn house, and is available online because it's public record, wasn't good enough.
AND I had to get a reference from my prior employer because they couldn't figure out what I did previously. WTF. The entire process was outrageous.
Almost paid cash the day before close to really F them, but decided against it.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
-
Almost paid cash the day before close to really F them, but decided against it.
ROFL, please do it next time, oooooh they deserve it : )
-
Almost paid cash the day before close to really F them, but decided against it.
ROFL, please do it next time, oooooh they deserve it : )
We actually did that after a conversation that went something like this:
Bullshit Lender (BSL): Um, What's this deposit to your checking account for $751?
Me: Uh, looks like that was our Federal tax refund.
BSL: We'll need a copy of that check, front and back.
Me: We filed electronically, there was no check.
BSL: Well you're gonna have to contact the IRS.
Me: What about that copy of our tax return in your hand that says: Refund $751?
BSL: No, we still need a copy of the check.
We wrote a check for the house. It was $928K (No hate - HCOLA, not a McMansion, and please don't break my heart and tell me how many houses that would buy where you live. And goddammit, it was a short sale.) There was more than enough in our checking account to cover it. Yeah, fuck you assholes. OTOH, we still kinda wish we'd ridden out the bullshit and gotten some of that super cheap mortgage money, but at the time, the rate was about 4.25% (not a jumbo) so it is what it is. The other loans I referred to upthread were for rental properties.
-
For $928K I could buy ten ghost towns in the middle of Kansas!!! ;)
-
If I had $928k cash, I'd be FIRE.
Or i could buy 15-20 1/2 bed condos and slumlord for life. Easy $100k+/year net income.
-
For $928K I could buy ten ghost towns in the middle of Kansas!!! ;)
Ohh my.. this sounds fun. 1, anyway: ten would be too close to a 'job'.
-
BTW, all this banker stupidity up thread is what you get from the current financial system where loans are packaged into asset backed securities then sold.
Back in the good ole days, you went to the bank where you did business. The banker knew you, personally. They also held the loan to maturity. High standards, but no BS.
-
Our first mortgage, (in the early 80s) was for $30,000.
We made the application, gave them all the info they ask for.
Then a couple weeks later they wanted three more months
of banking records. They couldn't believe we had a large bank
balance on the incomes we had. They were checking to see if
we had a got a loan from a relative.
On another note, we had sold our house and moved to another state,
we wanted to open a bank account with the check from our house sale.
My wife and I went to open the bank and wanted to open the account
with the deposit of a $65,000 check from the house sale. The bank refused
to open an account for us. We ended up going a block down the road to another
bank and opened an account without any issue.
-
Our first mortgage, (in the early 80s) was for $30,000.
We made the application, gave them all the info they ask for.
Then a couple weeks later they wanted three more months
of banking records. They couldn't believe we had a large bank
balance on the incomes we had. They were checking to see if
we had a got a loan from a relative.
On another note, we had sold our house and moved to another state,
we wanted to open a bank account with the check from our house sale.
My wife and I went to open the bank and wanted to open the account
with the deposit of a $65,000 check from the house sale. The bank refused
to open an account for us. We ended up going a block down the road to another
bank and opened an account without any issue.
What? Why?
-
One of the reasons I don't do business with Chase is because back when I was co-owner of a small investment real estate company with a couple of my buddies, we bought a property with a wrap mortgage that allowed for a refinancing. When the time came to refinance with Chase, they refused to approve a loan until my partners and I all signed a document asserting that none of us were in a sexual relationship with any of the others. My opinion is that such documents are grossly inappropriate in a business situation. So I wanted to make our signatures on the loan documents contingent on written proof that the president of Chase wasn't fucking anyone over a desk or in a supply cabinet, but being a minority partner I was outvoted.
WOW. I don't do business with Chase because of their terrible customer service, but this takes the cake.
I'm left wondering what the gender mix of your company partners is. If they're asking because it's a group of men and women, BUT don't ask the same of partnerships of all men, that would seem to be a blatant violation of the Equal Credit Opportunity Act.
-
One of the reasons I don't do business with Chase is because back when I was co-owner of a small investment real estate company with a couple of my buddies, we bought a property with a wrap mortgage that allowed for a refinancing. When the time came to refinance with Chase, they refused to approve a loan until my partners and I all signed a document asserting that none of us were in a sexual relationship with any of the others. My opinion is that such documents are grossly inappropriate in a business situation. So I wanted to make our signatures on the loan documents contingent on written proof that the president of Chase wasn't fucking anyone over a desk or in a supply cabinet, but being a minority partner I was outvoted.
WOW. I don't do business with Chase because of their terrible customer service, but this takes the cake.
I'm left wondering what the gender mix of your company partners is. If they're asking because it's a group of men and women, BUT don't ask the same of partnerships of all men, that would seem to be a blatant violation of the Equal Credit Opportunity Act.
I'm not sure if that act applies to commercial dealings. Might be consumer only.
-
One of the reasons I don't do business with Chase is because back when I was co-owner of a small investment real estate company with a couple of my buddies, we bought a property with a wrap mortgage that allowed for a refinancing. When the time came to refinance with Chase, they refused to approve a loan until my partners and I all signed a document asserting that none of us were in a sexual relationship with any of the others. My opinion is that such documents are grossly inappropriate in a business situation. So I wanted to make our signatures on the loan documents contingent on written proof that the president of Chase wasn't fucking anyone over a desk or in a supply cabinet, but being a minority partner I was outvoted.
WOW. I don't do business with Chase because of their terrible customer service, but this takes the cake.
I'm left wondering what the gender mix of your company partners is. If they're asking because it's a group of men and women, BUT don't ask the same of partnerships of all men, that would seem to be a blatant violation of the Equal Credit Opportunity Act.
I'm not sure if that act applies to commercial dealings. Might be consumer only.
My business partners happened to both be gay men, but they weren't in relationships with each other. We were getting the loan in a personal capacity, so it was technically a consumer loan covered by three friends. Their corporate horsefuckery from Chase was probably not legal, however I'm OK with it since I found a way to retaliate. My business partners gave me a Weasel of the Year Award for the most creative use of a corporate veil.
-
One of the reasons I don't do business with Chase is because back when I was co-owner of a small investment real estate company with a couple of my buddies, we bought a property with a wrap mortgage that allowed for a refinancing. When the time came to refinance with Chase, they refused to approve a loan until my partners and I all signed a document asserting that none of us were in a sexual relationship with any of the others. My opinion is that such documents are grossly inappropriate in a business situation. So I wanted to make our signatures on the loan documents contingent on written proof that the president of Chase wasn't fucking anyone over a desk or in a supply cabinet, but being a minority partner I was outvoted.
WOW. I don't do business with Chase because of their terrible customer service, but this takes the cake.
I'm left wondering what the gender mix of your company partners is. If they're asking because it's a group of men and women, BUT don't ask the same of partnerships of all men, that would seem to be a blatant violation of the Equal Credit Opportunity Act.
I'm not sure if that act applies to commercial dealings. Might be consumer only.
My business partners happened to both be gay men, but they weren't in relationships with each other. We were getting the loan in a personal capacity, so it was technically a consumer loan covered by three friends. Their corporate horsefuckery from Chase was probably not legal, however I'm OK with it since I found a way to retaliate. My business partners gave me a Weasel of the Year Award for the most creative use of a corporate veil.
I do hope you will elaborate. :)
-
I'm not sure if that act applies to commercial dealings. Might be consumer only.
IANAL, but Google tells me: Regulation B, the Equal Credit Opportunity Act (ECOA), applies to every aspect of a credit transaction. There is no Regulation B exception for commercial loans, even though there are exceptions for commercial loans in other regulations, including Regulation Z, the Truth in Lending Act.
My business partners happened to both be gay men, but they weren't in relationships with each other. We were getting the loan in a personal capacity, so it was technically a consumer loan covered by three friends. Their corporate horsefuckery from Chase was probably not legal, however I'm OK with it since I found a way to retaliate. My business partners gave me a Weasel of the Year Award for the most creative use of a corporate veil.
I do hope you will elaborate. :)
+1. You can't tease us like that!
-
I'm not sure if that act applies to commercial dealings. Might be consumer only.
IANAL, but Google tells me: Regulation B, the Equal Credit Opportunity Act (ECOA), applies to every aspect of a credit transaction. There is no Regulation B exception for commercial loans, even though there are exceptions for commercial loans in other regulations, including Regulation Z, the Truth in Lending Act.
My business partners happened to both be gay men, but they weren't in relationships with each other. We were getting the loan in a personal capacity, so it was technically a consumer loan covered by three friends. Their corporate horsefuckery from Chase was probably not legal, however I'm OK with it since I found a way to retaliate. My business partners gave me a Weasel of the Year Award for the most creative use of a corporate veil.
I do hope you will elaborate. :)
+1. You can't tease us like that!
Well, we took out the loan in a personal capacity, and Chase larded it up with a bunch of conditions I didn't like, including that particularly odious one about having to sign a paper indicating that none of us was fucking any of the others. It seemed to me that requiring that sort of document as a condition of getting the loan should have been illegal, however because of the timing of the balloon Chase had us over a barrel. We couldn't rapidly lock in a mortgage with anyone else.
Besides Chase's we're-not-fucking paper, there were some restrictions as to how we could use the property, such as whether we could use the basement unit to create a 5-plex out of a 4-plex given that the loan was for a 4-plex or smaller. So I signed restrictive clause after restrictive clause, prompting my partners to do the same. I made sure it there was no reference to our LLC in any of the bank documents. Then, I then pointed out that having a LLC is a bit like having an evil twin on whom you can blame everything. No sooner was the ink dry on the loan document than I turned around and transferred the title of the property to our LLC. You can only do this if you really, really trust your business partners.
For spite and profit, I then proceeded to deliberately do every single thing in a corporate capacity that I promised Chase I wouldn't do in a personal capacity, except of course for balling my business partners which wouldn't have made sense. We made every single loan payment on time so their attention wasn't drawn to our loan in particular. They didn't lose money by doing business with us, and nobody actually got hurt.
I ran my shell game move by our lawyer after the fact, and he sort of hit the roof but did acknowledge that what I'd done was (barely) legal, just unethical. I had no problem with that, being Not A Nice Person. There's a reason my partners voted me to be the enforcer with the responsibility of collecting rent, doing repairs, screening and evicting, and getting rid of undesirables such as a pack of drug cartel squatters.
Counter-sodomizing Chase and deliberately lying to them isn't something I'm particularly proud of, however the way we did it was technically within the letter of the law which is more than I can say for Chase's treatment of us. I wouldn't have done it if they hadn't been such douches to us first. My preference is to do business in a very open, honest way. However I did grow up in oil and gas so I've got the ability to play dirty if necessary.
-
I'm not sure if that act applies to commercial dealings. Might be consumer only.
IANAL, but Google tells me: Regulation B, the Equal Credit Opportunity Act (ECOA), applies to every aspect of a credit transaction. There is no Regulation B exception for commercial loans, even though there are exceptions for commercial loans in other regulations, including Regulation Z, the Truth in Lending Act.
My business partners happened to both be gay men, but they weren't in relationships with each other. We were getting the loan in a personal capacity, so it was technically a consumer loan covered by three friends. Their corporate horsefuckery from Chase was probably not legal, however I'm OK with it since I found a way to retaliate. My business partners gave me a Weasel of the Year Award for the most creative use of a corporate veil.
I do hope you will elaborate. :)
+1. You can't tease us like that!
Well, we took out the loan in a personal capacity, and Chase larded it up with a bunch of conditions I didn't like, including that particularly odious one about having to sign a paper indicating that none of us was fucking any of the others. It seemed to me that requiring that sort of document as a condition of getting the loan should have been illegal, however because of the timing of the balloon Chase had us over a barrel. We couldn't rapidly lock in a mortgage with anyone else.
Besides Chase's we're-not-fucking paper, there were some restrictions as to how we could use the property, such as whether we could use the basement unit to create a 5-plex out of a 4-plex given that the loan was for a 4-plex or smaller. So I signed restrictive clause after restrictive clause, prompting my partners to do the same. I made sure it there was no reference to our LLC in any of the bank documents. Then, I then pointed out that having a LLC is a bit like having an evil twin on whom you can blame everything. No sooner was the ink dry on the loan document than I turned around and transferred the title of the property to our LLC. You can only do this if you really, really trust your business partners.
For spite and profit, I then proceeded to deliberately do every single thing in a corporate capacity that I promised Chase I wouldn't do in a personal capacity, except of course for balling my business partners which wouldn't have made sense. We made every single loan payment on time so their attention wasn't drawn to our loan in particular. They didn't lose money by doing business with us, and nobody actually got hurt.
I ran my shell game move by our lawyer after the fact, and he sort of hit the roof but did acknowledge that what I'd done was (barely) legal, just unethical. I had no problem with that, being Not A Nice Person. There's a reason my partners voted me to be the enforcer with the responsibility of collecting rent, doing repairs, screening and evicting, and getting rid of undesirables such as a pack of drug cartel squatters.
Counter-sodomizing Chase and deliberately lying to them isn't something I'm particularly proud of, however the way we did it was technically within the letter of the law which is more than I can say for Chase's treatment of us. I wouldn't have done it if they hadn't been such douches to us first. My preference is to do business in a very open, honest way. However I did grow up in oil and gas so I've got the ability to play dirty if necessary.
WOW. And TheGrimSqueaker delivers once more!
How would you sleep with someone in a corporate capacity?
"The Board of Directors will now come to order. Everyone, remove your pants."
-
I'm not sure if that act applies to commercial dealings. Might be consumer only.
IANAL, but Google tells me: Regulation B, the Equal Credit Opportunity Act (ECOA), applies to every aspect of a credit transaction. There is no Regulation B exception for commercial loans, even though there are exceptions for commercial loans in other regulations, including Regulation Z, the Truth in Lending Act.
My business partners happened to both be gay men, but they weren't in relationships with each other. We were getting the loan in a personal capacity, so it was technically a consumer loan covered by three friends. Their corporate horsefuckery from Chase was probably not legal, however I'm OK with it since I found a way to retaliate. My business partners gave me a Weasel of the Year Award for the most creative use of a corporate veil.
I do hope you will elaborate. :)
+1. You can't tease us like that!
Well, we took out the loan in a personal capacity, and Chase larded it up with a bunch of conditions I didn't like, including that particularly odious one about having to sign a paper indicating that none of us was fucking any of the others. It seemed to me that requiring that sort of document as a condition of getting the loan should have been illegal, however because of the timing of the balloon Chase had us over a barrel. We couldn't rapidly lock in a mortgage with anyone else.
Besides Chase's we're-not-fucking paper, there were some restrictions as to how we could use the property, such as whether we could use the basement unit to create a 5-plex out of a 4-plex given that the loan was for a 4-plex or smaller. So I signed restrictive clause after restrictive clause, prompting my partners to do the same. I made sure it there was no reference to our LLC in any of the bank documents. Then, I then pointed out that having a LLC is a bit like having an evil twin on whom you can blame everything. No sooner was the ink dry on the loan document than I turned around and transferred the title of the property to our LLC. You can only do this if you really, really trust your business partners.
For spite and profit, I then proceeded to deliberately do every single thing in a corporate capacity that I promised Chase I wouldn't do in a personal capacity, except of course for balling my business partners which wouldn't have made sense. We made every single loan payment on time so their attention wasn't drawn to our loan in particular. They didn't lose money by doing business with us, and nobody actually got hurt.
I ran my shell game move by our lawyer after the fact, and he sort of hit the roof but did acknowledge that what I'd done was (barely) legal, just unethical. I had no problem with that, being Not A Nice Person. There's a reason my partners voted me to be the enforcer with the responsibility of collecting rent, doing repairs, screening and evicting, and getting rid of undesirables such as a pack of drug cartel squatters.
Counter-sodomizing Chase and deliberately lying to them isn't something I'm particularly proud of, however the way we did it was technically within the letter of the law which is more than I can say for Chase's treatment of us. I wouldn't have done it if they hadn't been such douches to us first. My preference is to do business in a very open, honest way. However I did grow up in oil and gas so I've got the ability to play dirty if necessary.
WOW. And TheGrimSqueaker delivers once more!
How would you sleep with someone in a corporate capacity?
"The Board of Directors will now come to order. Everyone, remove your pants."
Technically, we all fucked Chase Manhattan together. That counts.
-
I'm not sure if that act applies to commercial dealings. Might be consumer only.
IANAL, but Google tells me: Regulation B, the Equal Credit Opportunity Act (ECOA), applies to every aspect of a credit transaction. There is no Regulation B exception for commercial loans, even though there are exceptions for commercial loans in other regulations, including Regulation Z, the Truth in Lending Act.
My business partners happened to both be gay men, but they weren't in relationships with each other. We were getting the loan in a personal capacity, so it was technically a consumer loan covered by three friends. Their corporate horsefuckery from Chase was probably not legal, however I'm OK with it since I found a way to retaliate. My business partners gave me a Weasel of the Year Award for the most creative use of a corporate veil.
I do hope you will elaborate. :)
+1. You can't tease us like that!
Well, we took out the loan in a personal capacity, and Chase larded it up with a bunch of conditions I didn't like, including that particularly odious one about having to sign a paper indicating that none of us was fucking any of the others. It seemed to me that requiring that sort of document as a condition of getting the loan should have been illegal, however because of the timing of the balloon Chase had us over a barrel. We couldn't rapidly lock in a mortgage with anyone else.
Besides Chase's we're-not-fucking paper, there were some restrictions as to how we could use the property, such as whether we could use the basement unit to create a 5-plex out of a 4-plex given that the loan was for a 4-plex or smaller. So I signed restrictive clause after restrictive clause, prompting my partners to do the same. I made sure it there was no reference to our LLC in any of the bank documents. Then, I then pointed out that having a LLC is a bit like having an evil twin on whom you can blame everything. No sooner was the ink dry on the loan document than I turned around and transferred the title of the property to our LLC. You can only do this if you really, really trust your business partners.
For spite and profit, I then proceeded to deliberately do every single thing in a corporate capacity that I promised Chase I wouldn't do in a personal capacity, except of course for balling my business partners which wouldn't have made sense. We made every single loan payment on time so their attention wasn't drawn to our loan in particular. They didn't lose money by doing business with us, and nobody actually got hurt.
I ran my shell game move by our lawyer after the fact, and he sort of hit the roof but did acknowledge that what I'd done was (barely) legal, just unethical. I had no problem with that, being Not A Nice Person. There's a reason my partners voted me to be the enforcer with the responsibility of collecting rent, doing repairs, screening and evicting, and getting rid of undesirables such as a pack of drug cartel squatters.
Counter-sodomizing Chase and deliberately lying to them isn't something I'm particularly proud of, however the way we did it was technically within the letter of the law which is more than I can say for Chase's treatment of us. I wouldn't have done it if they hadn't been such douches to us first. My preference is to do business in a very open, honest way. However I did grow up in oil and gas so I've got the ability to play dirty if necessary.
WOW. And TheGrimSqueaker delivers once more!
How would you sleep with someone in a corporate capacity?
"The Board of Directors will now come to order. Everyone, remove your pants."
Technically, we all fucked Chase Manhattan together. That counts.
We are in the process of fucking Chase. Various credit card signup bonuses, and today I plan to set up another $500 draw from Chase through opening new accounts/depositing cash fro 90 days. Which should get me a preapproval for another credit card with a juicy signup bonus (70k in-branch for the CSP - almost done clearing 2x CSR for the 100k bonus)
-
We are in the process of fucking Chase. Various credit card signup bonuses, and today I plan to set up another $500 draw from Chase through opening new accounts/depositing cash fro 90 days. Which should get me a preapproval for another credit card with a juicy signup bonus (70k in-branch for the CSP - almost done clearing 2x CSR for the 100k bonus)
Chase is such a juicy whore that way. Enjoy, but wear protection. That bank has pulled some trains.
[MOD NOTE: Yes, I know this is the Internetz, but let's not do the creepy sex metaphors. Thankz. You guyz rool.]
-
I had a pleasant visit at the Chase office, and am now set up for the $500 bonus once I get the direct deposit from my side gig switched over, and the e-fund sits there for 90 days.
No preapprovals waiting though.
-
One of the reasons I don't do business with Chase is because back when I was co-owner of a small investment real estate company with a couple of my buddies, we bought a property with a wrap mortgage that allowed for a refinancing. When the time came to refinance with Chase, they refused to approve a loan until my partners and I all signed a document asserting that none of us were in a sexual relationship with any of the others. My opinion is that such documents are grossly inappropriate in a business situation. So I wanted to make our signatures on the loan documents contingent on written proof that the president of Chase wasn't fucking anyone over a desk or in a supply cabinet, but being a minority partner I was outvoted.
Da Actual FUQ???
How is this any of their business even if you were???? Married (and unmarried) couples go into business all the time together!
-
If I had $928k cash, I'd be FIRE.
Um, Yes.
Note to TGS: You're da bomb!
-
It is not only loans that can be affected by no loans on a credit report.
Several of us at work had trouble recently with security checks because we don't have credit card debts, car loans and large housing debts, but instead we have increasing bank accounts & investments and own one or more houses free & clear.
Explaining to a person who can not understand paying off houses, any credit card balances in full and having any investments outside of super (OZ 401K?) takes a lot of effort.
Also it is not just possible to palm it off (or pay cash ) as you need to convince this person you are not a security risk, (ie not a drug dealer or selling classified info to the enemy) to maintain your employment.
-
If I had $928k cash, I'd be FIRE.
Um, Yes.
Haha! I guess I forgot that part. You SoCal-ers live in an alternate housing reality.
-
I had a pleasant visit at the Chase office, and am now set up for the $500 bonus once I get the direct deposit from my side gig switched over, and the e-fund sits there for 90 days.
No preapprovals waiting though.
I'm glad your story had a happy ending.
-
Mine did too, incidentally. I now live in the house in question. And I didn't even have to go buy a new car on credit to do it! :)
-
If I had $928k cash, I'd be FIRE.
Um, Yes.
Haha! I guess I forgot that part. You SoCal-ers live in an alternate housing reality.
That's funnier than you know, jn. I actually live in Northern CA, which some might say is almost another state, lol. We also have three single family rentals in inland SoCal that combined are worth about the same as the one in NorCal. In all cases, they are in HCOLAs, but moderately so*, if that makes one lick of sense.
*Edated to claeify that surrounding communities are even more expensive.
-
The UK has really strict 'affordability tests' and also really strict money laundering regs.
We had to go through EVERYTHING during an hour long phone interview - how much do you spend on eating out each month? He was freaked out because I had YNAB open and was like, "Monthly average of £84.67". He also had 3 years worth of copies of statements from every bank account we have.
An actual conversation I had with the mortgage guy who was checking our affordability:
MG: So, we've been through your income and expenses. Each month you bring in x, and each month you spend 0.5x.
Me: Yes, we are big savers.
MG: OK, you passed the affordability test! I see you are borrowing less than the value of the current mortgage?
Me: Yes, we will paying off y thousands of pounds, to get our loan to value ratio to 50%, so we qualify for the lower interest rate.
MG: OK. Where did you get the money from?
Me: We... earn x, we spend 0.5x.
MG: Yes, but all this money you are paying off the mortgage with, where did it come from?
Me: We... don't spend everything we earn.
MG: Yes, but this lump sum, was it a gift? An inheritance? I need to know where it came from.
Me: ?????????????????
Despite three years copies of every bank account we have, showing x going in 0.5x going out in expenses, and 0.5x transferring into the savings account, I had to sign a document saying "We saved this money from our regular income over the course of the last 5 years".
-
Here's an example: My brother was buying a house. On the day before closing, his lender started demanding tons of documentation that simply wasn't available.
This does not surprise me, based on our experience with buying and selling a few places nobody involved in a real estate transaction seems to actually start working on it until a few days before. Apparently so many fall through they don't want to bother, so at the last minute lawyers start fed-exing documents around (and charging you for it), paperwork starts getting looked at, and so on. No matter how often you ask if they need anything else, they don't tell you till the last minute.
We tend to get in trouble because we actually read things before we sign them, first of all nobody allows for that kind of time in meetings, since there are piles of documents now, and second it causes "issues" when we find mistakes they have made. Example: on our mortgage application, I notice that they have my salary listed as about 10% too low. I point this out, and the mortgage broker says "Don't worry about it, you qualify anyway." Well, at the end we are signing that we agree with everything on the document, and if we are aware of anything wrong, they can charge us with fraud, so we aren't happy with that. But I am sure we can rely on his verbal assurances, despite the disclaimer on the document that it overrides any verbal promises, right?
-
When we were signing papers to purchase our townhouse we (two engineers) actually read everything and double checked the math on the closing statement. We asked questions about things we didn't understand. I'd like to think that we are smart and educated people and grasp these concepts reasonably quickly. Even still, we went way over our alloyed meeting time with the loan agent and notary and they had to bring in new people to finish out the signing process because the original set had to be on to their next signing. I can only conclude that people do not read the loan documents they sign. No wonder we had a mortgage crisis.
-
Here's an example: My brother was buying a house. On the day before closing, his lender started demanding tons of documentation that simply wasn't available.
This does not surprise me, based on our experience with buying and selling a few places nobody involved in a real estate transaction seems to actually start working on it until a few days before. Apparently so many fall through they don't want to bother, so at the last minute lawyers start fed-exing documents around (and charging you for it), paperwork starts getting looked at, and so on. No matter how often you ask if they need anything else, they don't tell you till the last minute.
We tend to get in trouble because we actually read things before we sign them, first of all nobody allows for that kind of time in meetings, since there are piles of documents now, and second it causes "issues" when we find mistakes they have made. Example: on our mortgage application, I notice that they have my salary listed as about 10% too low. I point this out, and the mortgage broker says "Don't worry about it, you qualify anyway." Well, at the end we are signing that we agree with everything on the document, and if we are aware of anything wrong, they can charge us with fraud, so we aren't happy with that. But I am sure we can rely on his verbal assurances, despite the disclaimer on the document that it overrides any verbal promises, right?
That is correct, I can't remember the term but verbal promises do not override anything on the contract, that said if you are already approved then I'm sure there won't be any problems.
For my mortgage, I demanded the paperwork a week before the closing date and emailed them daily until I got it 2 days before hand and went through it and got nearly all my questions answered. My closing was extremely smooth as a result.
-
When we were signing papers to purchase our townhouse we (two engineers) actually read everything and double checked the math on the closing statement. We asked questions about things we didn't understand. I'd like to think that we are smart and educated people and grasp these concepts reasonably quickly. Even still, we went way over our alloyed meeting time with the loan agent and notary and they had to bring in new people to finish out the signing process because the original set had to be on to their next signing. I can only conclude that people do not read the loan documents they sign. No wonder we had a mortgage crisis.
I read through everything the week prior. There were only about 20 new pages to read.
-
We tend to get in trouble because we actually read things before we sign them, first of all nobody allows for that kind of time in meetings, since there are piles of documents now, and second it causes "issues" when we find mistakes they have made. Example: on our mortgage application, I notice that they have my salary listed as about 10% too low. I point this out, and the mortgage broker says "Don't worry about it, you qualify anyway." Well, at the end we are signing that we agree with everything on the document, and if we are aware of anything wrong, they can charge us with fraud, so we aren't happy with that. But I am sure we can rely on his verbal assurances, despite the disclaimer on the document that it overrides any verbal promises, right?
I am not a lawyer, but I think that a good course of action would have been to strike out the wrong salary, fill in the correct salary, and have all parties initial next to the change.
-
We tend to get in trouble because we actually read things before we sign them, first of all nobody allows for that kind of time in meetings, since there are piles of documents now, and second it causes "issues" when we find mistakes they have made. Example: on our mortgage application, I notice that they have my salary listed as about 10% too low. I point this out, and the mortgage broker says "Don't worry about it, you qualify anyway." Well, at the end we are signing that we agree with everything on the document, and if we are aware of anything wrong, they can charge us with fraud, so we aren't happy with that. But I am sure we can rely on his verbal assurances, despite the disclaimer on the document that it overrides any verbal promises, right?
I am not a lawyer, but I think that a good course of action would have been to strike out the wrong salary, fill in the correct salary, and have all parties initial next to the change.
This happened on my mortgage because they used the salary from the last full financial year as this was the easiest for them to evidence. It went through fine.
-
Here's an example: My brother was buying a house. On the day before closing, his lender started demanding tons of documentation that simply wasn't available.
This does not surprise me, based on our experience with buying and selling a few places nobody involved in a real estate transaction seems to actually start working on it until a few days before. Apparently so many fall through they don't want to bother, so at the last minute lawyers start fed-exing documents around (and charging you for it), paperwork starts getting looked at, and so on. No matter how often you ask if they need anything else, they don't tell you till the last minute.
What the hell, since we're already off topic, let's wade in a little further, shall we? My brother's name is changed to protect his privacy. He's really my brother, but brother is not his real name.
In my brother's case, on day one of the transaction, he explained to his mortgage broker (with whom he has dealt with on multiple transactions) that his wife owns property in China, had sold one recently, and that some of the down payment money was coming from that transaction. He explained that if they needed any documentation, he needed to know in advance, because getting anything would require her flying to China, obtaining the documents, having them professionally translated, then hand carrying them back, which they were willing to do, if needed. "No problem, not necessary" he was told time after time, until the afternoon before the promised closing. The seller was literally packed for an out-of-state transfer, with the moving van parked in front of the house. The broker called with a list of documents that "needed" to be "faxed" from China. Sorry, you dumb basses [sic], China doesn't work that way. (See: lhamo.) And no, the exact documents you want don't exist in that format, because, it's China. They don't conduct their real estate transactions on the same forms we do, only printed in Chinese. Sigh. (See also: lhamo).
Then the escrow company wanted a letter saying the money from me (entire purchase amount) was a gift, which we both refused to do. We wrote something to the effect that we were siblings with a long history of having each other's backs, and that I was merely helping him out in the face of impossible demands made by the lender. It closed and somehow the lender figured something out and my brother's loan was secured a few days later. Who could make this stuff up?
-
MG: OK. Where did you get the money from?
Me: We... earn x, we spend 0.5x.
MG: Yes, but all this money you are paying off the mortgage with, where did it come from?
Me: We... don't spend everything we earn.
MG: Yes, but this lump sum, was it a gift? An inheritance? I need to know where it came from.
Me: ?????????????????
Despite three years copies of every bank account we have, showing x going in 0.5x going out in expenses, and 0.5x transferring into the savings account, I had to sign a document saying "We saved this money from our regular income over the course of the last 5 years".
I think that 90% of the disconnect between MMM folks and the people we mock on the AMS&C Wall is the fact that if you avoid spending 0.05x ten times a month you can save 0.5x per month and if you do that for 10 months you have 5x, and after 100 months you have 50x and that can be a LOT of money.
0.05x might not be a lot but they all add up.
-
In my brother's case, on day one of the transaction, he explained to his mortgage broker (with whom he has dealt with on multiple transactions) that his wife owns property in China, had sold one recently, and that some of the down payment money was coming from that transaction. He explained that if they needed any documentation, he needed to know in advance, because getting anything would require her flying to China, obtaining the documents, having them professionally translated, then hand carrying them back, which they were willing to do, if needed. "No problem, not necessary" he was told time after time, until the afternoon before the promised closing. The seller was literally packed for an out-of-state transfer, with the moving van parked in front of the house. The broker called with a list of documents that "needed" to be "faxed" from China. Sorry, you dumb basses [sic], China doesn't work that way. (See: lhamo.) And no, the exact documents you want don't exist in that format, because, it's China. They don't conduct their real estate transactions on the same forms we do, only printed in Chinese. Sigh. (See also: lhamo).
This kind of bullshit seems to be typical. When I was buying my current home (without a mortgage) I set up an autoreply to the conveyancers saying 'if you have asked for yet more documentation on behalf of the mortgage company, please remember that there is no mortgage company'. It was like pulling teeth.
-
I lived overseas for 20+ years. I maintained a US bank account but no credit cards. No bad credit on my file.
I did have credit cards from two other countries that I could use for rental cars, etc.
Before moving back to the USA, I invested heavily in real estate after the crash. I bought and sold a few dozen homes (cash of course). I kept a several to live in and and to rent. I paid cash for all of them and had zero debt of any kind.
I moved to another state (kind of at the last moment) for my kids education. I had $150,000 in my checking / saving account at Wells Fargo. I have had the account for 30+ years.
I needed to buy a house in the new state (I actually owned one property (summer home) there but it was on the other side of town from the new school). I had $6K a month in income from overseas employer as well as other business income and rental income.
I was looking at houses in the 250K to 300K range (cheap for this school district). Mind you I had $150K for a down payment! Couldn't get a dime from any bank. Obviously I had no W-2s - but I did have income from 3 sources. So even if I lost my job I would still have 2 other sources - more than enough to meet my needs and pay the mortgage.
Luckily I found a double foreclosure in the school district for 100K - and 20K to fix it up. It is fine but not the home we really wanted.
Since then I realized how important our insane credit reporting is. I applied for a bunch of credit cards and used them to purchase stuff and my credit rating is excellent.
Now the bank keeps offering to loan me money (HeLoC, credit line, etc.). I remind the bankers of the "150K down on a 300K home denied loan."
The moral of the story is that "Bank Are Morons".
-
To be fair, many people who offer $150k down on a $300k home with no W2s are often ... not earning their money legally. Banks may not want anything to do with you for more reasons than lack of credit history.