Author Topic: No active auto loan on his credit report? SUSPICIOUS!  (Read 16446 times)

bugbaby

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Re: No active auto loan on his credit report? SUSPICIOUS!
« Reply #50 on: December 05, 2016, 08:52:18 AM »
I decided to finance a car 1st time recently. The purchase price was the same and the interest rate 2.6% sounded reasonable to me.  Most of all it helps me save for a house faster while padding  my brokerage acct, and build my credit report for a mortgage.

However looking back I probably added too many extras like warranties, remote start etc which I wouldn't buy if paying cash.

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Re: No active auto loan on his credit report? SUSPICIOUS!
« Reply #51 on: December 05, 2016, 11:59:31 AM »

I'm exactly the opposite.  If I'm not making payments, I can't help but think I'm missing out on my money working harder for me elsewhere.

Its temporary of course, but I'm still enjoying my third party 2% used car loan.  It was a whopping $7k.  I won't pay a dime extra ahead on it.

True, and I use to believe similar, but what I came to realize is, for me at least, monthly cashflow is king. By decrease monthly expenses, I have been able to build in more stability while working towards FIRE. Sure I could be missing out on putting that money to work, but I don't have to worry about loosing anything if I got laid off or keeping as big of a 6 month reserve account, plus I would be tempted to buy a more expense car than I really need, etc. Also, I don't like making payments, and for me, I like to be able to maximize my cashflow capabilities and pile it into my stash every month. Both ways probably get the same result, but I have better piece of mind without payments.

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Re: No active auto loan on his credit report? SUSPICIOUS!
« Reply #52 on: December 05, 2016, 01:23:56 PM »
Since the housing crash, banks are going to the extreme to be careful.

I'm in the midst of purchasing my second rental.  The amount of the loan is $26,000.  I have twice that in cash on deposit.  I own my first rental outright and my total debt load (including my new car and my mortgage) is 14% of my gross wages.  My ficos are over 800 and I'm with the same employer 30 years.

The banks wants a copy of the back of the earnest money check AND a bank statement showing it was actually debited from my account.  They want employment verification AND again 10 days prior to closing.

There is a new level of due diligence.




SoccerLounge

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Re: No active auto loan on his credit report? SUSPICIOUS!
« Reply #53 on: December 05, 2016, 03:19:37 PM »
There is a new level of due diligence.

This was what my lending agent was saying. He was surprised, but then added "perhaps I shouldn't be - they'll ask about just about anything anymore."

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Re: No active auto loan on his credit report? SUSPICIOUS!
« Reply #54 on: December 05, 2016, 03:30:12 PM »
THIS....

This was what my lending agent was saying. He was surprised, but then added "perhaps I shouldn't be - they'll ask about just about anything anymore."

...is probably one of the biggest reasons I don't borrow money unless absolutely necessary, it makes me feel like I'm having a confessional or kissing the a lords ring.

appleblossom

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Re: No active auto loan on his credit report? SUSPICIOUS!
« Reply #55 on: December 06, 2016, 02:04:35 AM »
THIS....

This was what my lending agent was saying. He was surprised, but then added "perhaps I shouldn't be - they'll ask about just about anything anymore."

...is probably one of the biggest reasons I don't borrow money unless absolutely necessary, it makes me feel like I'm having a confessional or kissing the a lords ring.

It would probably be a better thing overall, but if more people felt like this there woud be less content for this forum.

Dicey

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Re: No active auto loan on his credit report? SUSPICIOUS!
« Reply #56 on: December 06, 2016, 03:02:05 PM »
THIS....

This was what my lending agent was saying. He was surprised, but then added "perhaps I shouldn't be - they'll ask about just about anything anymore."

...is probably one of the biggest reasons I don't borrow money unless absolutely necessary, it makes me feel like I'm having a confessional or kissing the a lords ring.
Hahaha, GRS, you nailed it.
Since the housing crash, banks are going to the extreme to be careful.

I'm in the midst of purchasing my second rental.  The amount of the loan is $26,000.  I have twice that in cash on deposit.  I own my first rental outright and my total debt load (including my new car and my mortgage) is 14% of my gross wages.  My ficos are over 800 and I'm with the same employer 30 years.

The banks wants a copy of the back of the earnest money check AND a bank statement showing it was actually debited from my account.  They want employment verification AND again 10 days prior to closing.

There is a new level of due diligence.
There are also higher levels of incompetence, as the people who interface with the underwriters have less and less experience (because the experienced ones can't deal with the BS and move on to something less horrid). Last year, we got a mortgage through Chase, which is also our primary bank. The notary came to our house (because our agent was on vacation at Disneyland with no notice that she would be away. I cannot make this shit up.) We noticed they'd set up the loan with an impound account. Not A Chance, said we. You were told on day one we don't want one and we have it right here in writing on your letterhead. All the documents had to be re-done. Those assholes charged us for both notary visits. We were locked in at a good rate, so we paid it. However, we've purchased two more houses and re-fi'd another since then and we took our business elsewhere. Fuck you, Chase Home Lending.*

The other lender asked for the same type of documentation, but they were at least a little less ridiculous than Chase.

Whew! Thanks MMMers, I feel better for getting that off my chest.

*And drifterrider, our stats were along the same lines as yours. We could easily have paid cash, but we didn't want to.

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Re: No active auto loan on his credit report? SUSPICIOUS!
« Reply #57 on: December 06, 2016, 03:52:23 PM »
THIS....

This was what my lending agent was saying. He was surprised, but then added "perhaps I shouldn't be - they'll ask about just about anything anymore."

...is probably one of the biggest reasons I don't borrow money unless absolutely necessary, it makes me feel like I'm having a confessional or kissing the a lords ring.
Hahaha, GRS, you nailed it.
Since the housing crash, banks are going to the extreme to be careful.

I'm in the midst of purchasing my second rental.  The amount of the loan is $26,000.  I have twice that in cash on deposit.  I own my first rental outright and my total debt load (including my new car and my mortgage) is 14% of my gross wages.  My ficos are over 800 and I'm with the same employer 30 years.

The banks wants a copy of the back of the earnest money check AND a bank statement showing it was actually debited from my account.  They want employment verification AND again 10 days prior to closing.

There is a new level of due diligence.
There are also higher levels of incompetence, as the people who interface with the underwriters have less and less experience (because the experienced ones can't deal with the BS and move on to something less horrid). Last year, we got a mortgage through Chase, which is also our primary bank. The notary came to our house (because our agent was on vacation at Disneyland with no notice that she would be away. I cannot make this shit up.) We noticed they'd set up the loan with an impound account. Not A Chance, said we. You were told on day one we don't want one and we have it right here in writing on your letterhead. All the documents had to be re-done. Those assholes charged us for both notary visits. We were locked in at a good rate, so we paid it. However, we've purchased two more houses and re-fi'd another since then and we took our business elsewhere. Fuck you, Chase Home Lending.*

The other lender asked for the same type of documentation, but they were at least a little less ridiculous than Chase.

Whew! Thanks MMMers, I feel better for getting that off my chest.

*And drifterrider, our stats were along the same lines as yours. We could easily have paid cash, but we didn't want to.

One of the reasons I don't do business with Chase is because back when I was co-owner of a small investment real estate company with a couple of my buddies, we bought a property with a wrap mortgage that allowed for a refinancing. When the time came to refinance with Chase, they refused to approve a loan until my partners and I all signed a document asserting that none of us were in a sexual relationship with any of the others. My opinion is that such documents are grossly inappropriate in a business situation. So I wanted to make our signatures on the loan documents contingent on written proof that the president of Chase wasn't fucking anyone over a desk or in a supply cabinet, but being a minority partner I was outvoted.

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Re: No active auto loan on his credit report? SUSPICIOUS!
« Reply #58 on: December 06, 2016, 05:11:34 PM »
There are also higher levels of incompetence, as the people who interface with the underwriters have less and less experience (because the experienced ones can't deal with the BS and move on to something less horrid).

Same thing is happening in engineering consulting, and the cost of construction is being impacted by it as well.... We easily have 10 times the amount of paperwork involved than we did 10yrs ago, for what? To prove we know how to fill out forms? its maddening....

Papa bear

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Re: No active auto loan on his credit report? SUSPICIOUS!
« Reply #59 on: December 06, 2016, 05:34:16 PM »
For a recent rental property, I had to prove that I didn't own a home.  The home was owned by a third party (luckily my father).  He was not part of the transaction in any way.  How do you go about proving you don't own something?  I had to get my father to provide a utility bill in his name to prove this. Apparently the title, you know the thing that shows who owns the damn house, and is available online because it's public record, wasn't good enough.

AND I had to get a reference from my prior employer because they couldn't figure out what I did previously.  WTF. The entire process was outrageous. 

Almost paid cash the day before close to really F them, but decided against it.


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Re: No active auto loan on his credit report? SUSPICIOUS!
« Reply #60 on: December 06, 2016, 05:36:16 PM »

Almost paid cash the day before close to really F them, but decided against it.


ROFL, please do it next time, oooooh they deserve it : )

Dicey

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Re: No active auto loan on his credit report? SUSPICIOUS!
« Reply #61 on: December 06, 2016, 11:01:36 PM »
Almost paid cash the day before close to really F them, but decided against it.

ROFL, please do it next time, oooooh they deserve it : )
We actually did that after a conversation that went something like this:
Bullshit Lender (BSL): Um, What's this deposit to your checking account for $751?
Me: Uh, looks like that was our Federal tax refund.
BSL: We'll need a copy of that check, front and back.
Me: We filed electronically, there was no check.
BSL: Well you're gonna have to contact the IRS.
Me: What about that copy of our tax return in your hand that says: Refund $751?
BSL: No, we still need a copy of the check.

We wrote a check for the house. It was $928K (No hate - HCOLA, not a McMansion, and please don't break my heart and tell me how many houses that would buy where you live. And goddammit, it was a short sale.) There was more than enough in our checking account to cover it. Yeah, fuck you assholes. OTOH, we still kinda wish we'd ridden out the bullshit and gotten some of that super cheap mortgage money, but at the time, the rate was about 4.25% (not a jumbo) so it is what it is. The other loans I referred to upthread were for rental properties.

Making Cookies

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Re: No active auto loan on his credit report? SUSPICIOUS!
« Reply #62 on: December 07, 2016, 07:46:25 AM »
For $928K I could buy ten ghost towns in the middle of Kansas!!! ;)

jinga nation

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Re: No active auto loan on his credit report? SUSPICIOUS!
« Reply #63 on: December 07, 2016, 10:21:09 AM »
If I had $928k cash, I'd be FIRE.
Or i could buy 15-20 1/2 bed condos and slumlord for life. Easy $100k+/year net income.

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Re: No active auto loan on his credit report? SUSPICIOUS!
« Reply #64 on: December 07, 2016, 01:00:13 PM »
For $928K I could buy ten ghost towns in the middle of Kansas!!! ;)

Ohh my.. this sounds fun. 1, anyway: ten would be too close to a 'job'.

No Name Guy

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Re: No active auto loan on his credit report? SUSPICIOUS!
« Reply #65 on: December 07, 2016, 01:22:51 PM »
BTW, all this banker stupidity up thread is what you get from the current financial system where loans are packaged into asset backed securities then sold.

Back in the good ole days, you went to the bank where you did business.  The banker knew you, personally.  They also held the loan to maturity.  High standards, but no BS.


BTDretire

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Re: No active auto loan on his credit report? SUSPICIOUS!
« Reply #66 on: December 07, 2016, 02:04:49 PM »
Our first mortgage, (in the early 80s) was for $30,000.
We made the application, gave them all the info they ask for.
Then a couple weeks later they wanted three more months
of banking records. They couldn't believe we had a large bank
balance on the incomes we had. They were checking to see if
we had a got a loan from a relative.
  On another note, we had sold our house and moved to another state,
we wanted to open a bank account with the check from our house sale.
  My wife and I went to open the bank and wanted to open the account
with the deposit of a $65,000 check from the house sale. The bank refused
to open an account for us. We ended up going a block down the road to another
bank and opened an account without any issue.

Gin1984

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Re: No active auto loan on his credit report? SUSPICIOUS!
« Reply #67 on: December 07, 2016, 02:11:36 PM »
Our first mortgage, (in the early 80s) was for $30,000.
We made the application, gave them all the info they ask for.
Then a couple weeks later they wanted three more months
of banking records. They couldn't believe we had a large bank
balance on the incomes we had. They were checking to see if
we had a got a loan from a relative.
  On another note, we had sold our house and moved to another state,
we wanted to open a bank account with the check from our house sale.
  My wife and I went to open the bank and wanted to open the account
with the deposit of a $65,000 check from the house sale. The bank refused
to open an account for us.
We ended up going a block down the road to another
bank and opened an account without any issue.
What?  Why?

merula

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Re: No active auto loan on his credit report? SUSPICIOUS!
« Reply #68 on: December 07, 2016, 02:34:21 PM »
One of the reasons I don't do business with Chase is because back when I was co-owner of a small investment real estate company with a couple of my buddies, we bought a property with a wrap mortgage that allowed for a refinancing. When the time came to refinance with Chase, they refused to approve a loan until my partners and I all signed a document asserting that none of us were in a sexual relationship with any of the others. My opinion is that such documents are grossly inappropriate in a business situation. So I wanted to make our signatures on the loan documents contingent on written proof that the president of Chase wasn't fucking anyone over a desk or in a supply cabinet, but being a minority partner I was outvoted.

WOW. I don't do business with Chase because of their terrible customer service, but this takes the cake.

I'm left wondering what the gender mix of your company partners is. If they're asking because it's a group of men and women, BUT don't ask the same of partnerships of all men, that would seem to be a blatant violation of the Equal Credit Opportunity Act.

mtn

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Re: No active auto loan on his credit report? SUSPICIOUS!
« Reply #69 on: December 07, 2016, 02:39:37 PM »
One of the reasons I don't do business with Chase is because back when I was co-owner of a small investment real estate company with a couple of my buddies, we bought a property with a wrap mortgage that allowed for a refinancing. When the time came to refinance with Chase, they refused to approve a loan until my partners and I all signed a document asserting that none of us were in a sexual relationship with any of the others. My opinion is that such documents are grossly inappropriate in a business situation. So I wanted to make our signatures on the loan documents contingent on written proof that the president of Chase wasn't fucking anyone over a desk or in a supply cabinet, but being a minority partner I was outvoted.

WOW. I don't do business with Chase because of their terrible customer service, but this takes the cake.

I'm left wondering what the gender mix of your company partners is. If they're asking because it's a group of men and women, BUT don't ask the same of partnerships of all men, that would seem to be a blatant violation of the Equal Credit Opportunity Act.

I'm not sure if that act applies to commercial dealings. Might be consumer only.

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Re: No active auto loan on his credit report? SUSPICIOUS!
« Reply #70 on: December 07, 2016, 03:36:57 PM »
One of the reasons I don't do business with Chase is because back when I was co-owner of a small investment real estate company with a couple of my buddies, we bought a property with a wrap mortgage that allowed for a refinancing. When the time came to refinance with Chase, they refused to approve a loan until my partners and I all signed a document asserting that none of us were in a sexual relationship with any of the others. My opinion is that such documents are grossly inappropriate in a business situation. So I wanted to make our signatures on the loan documents contingent on written proof that the president of Chase wasn't fucking anyone over a desk or in a supply cabinet, but being a minority partner I was outvoted.

WOW. I don't do business with Chase because of their terrible customer service, but this takes the cake.

I'm left wondering what the gender mix of your company partners is. If they're asking because it's a group of men and women, BUT don't ask the same of partnerships of all men, that would seem to be a blatant violation of the Equal Credit Opportunity Act.

I'm not sure if that act applies to commercial dealings. Might be consumer only.

My business partners happened to both be gay men, but they weren't in relationships with each other. We were getting the loan in a personal capacity, so it was technically a consumer loan covered by three friends. Their corporate horsefuckery from Chase was probably not legal, however I'm OK with it since I found a way to retaliate. My business partners gave me a Weasel of the Year Award for the most creative use of a corporate veil.

With This Herring

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Re: No active auto loan on his credit report? SUSPICIOUS!
« Reply #71 on: December 07, 2016, 04:27:29 PM »
One of the reasons I don't do business with Chase is because back when I was co-owner of a small investment real estate company with a couple of my buddies, we bought a property with a wrap mortgage that allowed for a refinancing. When the time came to refinance with Chase, they refused to approve a loan until my partners and I all signed a document asserting that none of us were in a sexual relationship with any of the others. My opinion is that such documents are grossly inappropriate in a business situation. So I wanted to make our signatures on the loan documents contingent on written proof that the president of Chase wasn't fucking anyone over a desk or in a supply cabinet, but being a minority partner I was outvoted.

WOW. I don't do business with Chase because of their terrible customer service, but this takes the cake.

I'm left wondering what the gender mix of your company partners is. If they're asking because it's a group of men and women, BUT don't ask the same of partnerships of all men, that would seem to be a blatant violation of the Equal Credit Opportunity Act.

I'm not sure if that act applies to commercial dealings. Might be consumer only.

My business partners happened to both be gay men, but they weren't in relationships with each other. We were getting the loan in a personal capacity, so it was technically a consumer loan covered by three friends. Their corporate horsefuckery from Chase was probably not legal, however I'm OK with it since I found a way to retaliate. My business partners gave me a Weasel of the Year Award for the most creative use of a corporate veil.

I do hope you will elaborate.  :)

merula

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Re: No active auto loan on his credit report? SUSPICIOUS!
« Reply #72 on: December 08, 2016, 08:16:43 AM »
I'm not sure if that act applies to commercial dealings. Might be consumer only.

IANAL, but Google tells me: Regulation B, the Equal Credit Opportunity Act (ECOA), applies to every aspect of a credit transaction. There is no Regulation B exception for commercial loans, even though there are exceptions for commercial loans in other regulations, including Regulation Z, the Truth in Lending Act.

My business partners happened to both be gay men, but they weren't in relationships with each other. We were getting the loan in a personal capacity, so it was technically a consumer loan covered by three friends. Their corporate horsefuckery from Chase was probably not legal, however I'm OK with it since I found a way to retaliate. My business partners gave me a Weasel of the Year Award for the most creative use of a corporate veil.

I do hope you will elaborate.  :)

+1. You can't tease us like that!

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Re: No active auto loan on his credit report? SUSPICIOUS!
« Reply #73 on: December 08, 2016, 08:54:59 AM »
I'm not sure if that act applies to commercial dealings. Might be consumer only.

IANAL, but Google tells me: Regulation B, the Equal Credit Opportunity Act (ECOA), applies to every aspect of a credit transaction. There is no Regulation B exception for commercial loans, even though there are exceptions for commercial loans in other regulations, including Regulation Z, the Truth in Lending Act.

My business partners happened to both be gay men, but they weren't in relationships with each other. We were getting the loan in a personal capacity, so it was technically a consumer loan covered by three friends. Their corporate horsefuckery from Chase was probably not legal, however I'm OK with it since I found a way to retaliate. My business partners gave me a Weasel of the Year Award for the most creative use of a corporate veil.

I do hope you will elaborate.  :)

+1. You can't tease us like that!

Well, we took out the loan in a personal capacity, and Chase larded it up with a bunch of conditions I didn't like, including that particularly odious one about having to sign a paper indicating that none of us was fucking any of the others. It seemed to me that requiring that sort of document as a condition of getting the loan should have been illegal, however because of the timing of the balloon Chase had us over a barrel. We couldn't rapidly lock in a mortgage with anyone else.

Besides Chase's we're-not-fucking paper, there were some restrictions as to how we could use the property, such as whether we could use the basement unit to create a 5-plex out of a 4-plex given that the loan was for a 4-plex or smaller. So I signed restrictive clause after restrictive clause, prompting my partners to do the same. I made sure it there was no reference to our LLC in any of the bank documents. Then, I then pointed out that having a LLC is a bit like having an evil twin on whom you can blame everything. No sooner was the ink dry on the loan document than I turned around and transferred the title of the property to our LLC. You can only do this if you really, really trust your business partners.

For spite and profit, I then proceeded to deliberately do every single thing in a corporate capacity that I promised Chase I wouldn't do in a personal capacity, except of course for balling my business partners which wouldn't have made sense. We made every single loan payment on time so their attention wasn't drawn to our loan in particular. They didn't lose money by doing business with us, and nobody actually got hurt.

I ran my shell game move by our lawyer after the fact, and he sort of hit the roof but did acknowledge that what I'd done was (barely) legal, just unethical. I had no problem with that, being Not A Nice Person. There's a reason my partners voted me to be the enforcer with the responsibility of collecting rent, doing repairs, screening and evicting, and getting rid of undesirables such as a pack of drug cartel squatters.

Counter-sodomizing Chase and deliberately lying to them isn't something I'm particularly proud of, however the way we did it was technically within the letter of the law which is more than I can say for Chase's treatment of us. I wouldn't have done it if they hadn't been such douches to us first. My preference is to do business in a very open, honest way. However I did grow up in oil and gas so I've got the ability to play dirty if necessary.

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Re: No active auto loan on his credit report? SUSPICIOUS!
« Reply #74 on: December 08, 2016, 03:39:07 PM »
I'm not sure if that act applies to commercial dealings. Might be consumer only.

IANAL, but Google tells me: Regulation B, the Equal Credit Opportunity Act (ECOA), applies to every aspect of a credit transaction. There is no Regulation B exception for commercial loans, even though there are exceptions for commercial loans in other regulations, including Regulation Z, the Truth in Lending Act.

My business partners happened to both be gay men, but they weren't in relationships with each other. We were getting the loan in a personal capacity, so it was technically a consumer loan covered by three friends. Their corporate horsefuckery from Chase was probably not legal, however I'm OK with it since I found a way to retaliate. My business partners gave me a Weasel of the Year Award for the most creative use of a corporate veil.

I do hope you will elaborate.  :)

+1. You can't tease us like that!

Well, we took out the loan in a personal capacity, and Chase larded it up with a bunch of conditions I didn't like, including that particularly odious one about having to sign a paper indicating that none of us was fucking any of the others. It seemed to me that requiring that sort of document as a condition of getting the loan should have been illegal, however because of the timing of the balloon Chase had us over a barrel. We couldn't rapidly lock in a mortgage with anyone else.

Besides Chase's we're-not-fucking paper, there were some restrictions as to how we could use the property, such as whether we could use the basement unit to create a 5-plex out of a 4-plex given that the loan was for a 4-plex or smaller. So I signed restrictive clause after restrictive clause, prompting my partners to do the same. I made sure it there was no reference to our LLC in any of the bank documents. Then, I then pointed out that having a LLC is a bit like having an evil twin on whom you can blame everything. No sooner was the ink dry on the loan document than I turned around and transferred the title of the property to our LLC. You can only do this if you really, really trust your business partners.

For spite and profit, I then proceeded to deliberately do every single thing in a corporate capacity that I promised Chase I wouldn't do in a personal capacity, except of course for balling my business partners which wouldn't have made sense. We made every single loan payment on time so their attention wasn't drawn to our loan in particular. They didn't lose money by doing business with us, and nobody actually got hurt.

I ran my shell game move by our lawyer after the fact, and he sort of hit the roof but did acknowledge that what I'd done was (barely) legal, just unethical. I had no problem with that, being Not A Nice Person. There's a reason my partners voted me to be the enforcer with the responsibility of collecting rent, doing repairs, screening and evicting, and getting rid of undesirables such as a pack of drug cartel squatters.

Counter-sodomizing Chase and deliberately lying to them isn't something I'm particularly proud of, however the way we did it was technically within the letter of the law which is more than I can say for Chase's treatment of us. I wouldn't have done it if they hadn't been such douches to us first. My preference is to do business in a very open, honest way. However I did grow up in oil and gas so I've got the ability to play dirty if necessary.

WOW.  And TheGrimSqueaker delivers once more!

How would you sleep with someone in a corporate capacity?
"The Board of Directors will now come to order.  Everyone, remove your pants."

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Re: No active auto loan on his credit report? SUSPICIOUS!
« Reply #75 on: December 08, 2016, 09:55:00 PM »
I'm not sure if that act applies to commercial dealings. Might be consumer only.

IANAL, but Google tells me: Regulation B, the Equal Credit Opportunity Act (ECOA), applies to every aspect of a credit transaction. There is no Regulation B exception for commercial loans, even though there are exceptions for commercial loans in other regulations, including Regulation Z, the Truth in Lending Act.

My business partners happened to both be gay men, but they weren't in relationships with each other. We were getting the loan in a personal capacity, so it was technically a consumer loan covered by three friends. Their corporate horsefuckery from Chase was probably not legal, however I'm OK with it since I found a way to retaliate. My business partners gave me a Weasel of the Year Award for the most creative use of a corporate veil.

I do hope you will elaborate.  :)

+1. You can't tease us like that!

Well, we took out the loan in a personal capacity, and Chase larded it up with a bunch of conditions I didn't like, including that particularly odious one about having to sign a paper indicating that none of us was fucking any of the others. It seemed to me that requiring that sort of document as a condition of getting the loan should have been illegal, however because of the timing of the balloon Chase had us over a barrel. We couldn't rapidly lock in a mortgage with anyone else.

Besides Chase's we're-not-fucking paper, there were some restrictions as to how we could use the property, such as whether we could use the basement unit to create a 5-plex out of a 4-plex given that the loan was for a 4-plex or smaller. So I signed restrictive clause after restrictive clause, prompting my partners to do the same. I made sure it there was no reference to our LLC in any of the bank documents. Then, I then pointed out that having a LLC is a bit like having an evil twin on whom you can blame everything. No sooner was the ink dry on the loan document than I turned around and transferred the title of the property to our LLC. You can only do this if you really, really trust your business partners.

For spite and profit, I then proceeded to deliberately do every single thing in a corporate capacity that I promised Chase I wouldn't do in a personal capacity, except of course for balling my business partners which wouldn't have made sense. We made every single loan payment on time so their attention wasn't drawn to our loan in particular. They didn't lose money by doing business with us, and nobody actually got hurt.

I ran my shell game move by our lawyer after the fact, and he sort of hit the roof but did acknowledge that what I'd done was (barely) legal, just unethical. I had no problem with that, being Not A Nice Person. There's a reason my partners voted me to be the enforcer with the responsibility of collecting rent, doing repairs, screening and evicting, and getting rid of undesirables such as a pack of drug cartel squatters.

Counter-sodomizing Chase and deliberately lying to them isn't something I'm particularly proud of, however the way we did it was technically within the letter of the law which is more than I can say for Chase's treatment of us. I wouldn't have done it if they hadn't been such douches to us first. My preference is to do business in a very open, honest way. However I did grow up in oil and gas so I've got the ability to play dirty if necessary.

WOW.  And TheGrimSqueaker delivers once more!

How would you sleep with someone in a corporate capacity?
"The Board of Directors will now come to order.  Everyone, remove your pants."

Technically, we all fucked Chase Manhattan together. That counts.

TomTX

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Re: No active auto loan on his credit report? SUSPICIOUS!
« Reply #76 on: December 09, 2016, 05:53:07 AM »
I'm not sure if that act applies to commercial dealings. Might be consumer only.

IANAL, but Google tells me: Regulation B, the Equal Credit Opportunity Act (ECOA), applies to every aspect of a credit transaction. There is no Regulation B exception for commercial loans, even though there are exceptions for commercial loans in other regulations, including Regulation Z, the Truth in Lending Act.

My business partners happened to both be gay men, but they weren't in relationships with each other. We were getting the loan in a personal capacity, so it was technically a consumer loan covered by three friends. Their corporate horsefuckery from Chase was probably not legal, however I'm OK with it since I found a way to retaliate. My business partners gave me a Weasel of the Year Award for the most creative use of a corporate veil.

I do hope you will elaborate.  :)

+1. You can't tease us like that!

Well, we took out the loan in a personal capacity, and Chase larded it up with a bunch of conditions I didn't like, including that particularly odious one about having to sign a paper indicating that none of us was fucking any of the others. It seemed to me that requiring that sort of document as a condition of getting the loan should have been illegal, however because of the timing of the balloon Chase had us over a barrel. We couldn't rapidly lock in a mortgage with anyone else.

Besides Chase's we're-not-fucking paper, there were some restrictions as to how we could use the property, such as whether we could use the basement unit to create a 5-plex out of a 4-plex given that the loan was for a 4-plex or smaller. So I signed restrictive clause after restrictive clause, prompting my partners to do the same. I made sure it there was no reference to our LLC in any of the bank documents. Then, I then pointed out that having a LLC is a bit like having an evil twin on whom you can blame everything. No sooner was the ink dry on the loan document than I turned around and transferred the title of the property to our LLC. You can only do this if you really, really trust your business partners.

For spite and profit, I then proceeded to deliberately do every single thing in a corporate capacity that I promised Chase I wouldn't do in a personal capacity, except of course for balling my business partners which wouldn't have made sense. We made every single loan payment on time so their attention wasn't drawn to our loan in particular. They didn't lose money by doing business with us, and nobody actually got hurt.

I ran my shell game move by our lawyer after the fact, and he sort of hit the roof but did acknowledge that what I'd done was (barely) legal, just unethical. I had no problem with that, being Not A Nice Person. There's a reason my partners voted me to be the enforcer with the responsibility of collecting rent, doing repairs, screening and evicting, and getting rid of undesirables such as a pack of drug cartel squatters.

Counter-sodomizing Chase and deliberately lying to them isn't something I'm particularly proud of, however the way we did it was technically within the letter of the law which is more than I can say for Chase's treatment of us. I wouldn't have done it if they hadn't been such douches to us first. My preference is to do business in a very open, honest way. However I did grow up in oil and gas so I've got the ability to play dirty if necessary.

WOW.  And TheGrimSqueaker delivers once more!

How would you sleep with someone in a corporate capacity?
"The Board of Directors will now come to order.  Everyone, remove your pants."

Technically, we all fucked Chase Manhattan together. That counts.

We are in the process of fucking Chase. Various credit card signup bonuses, and today I plan to set up another $500 draw from Chase through opening new accounts/depositing cash fro 90 days. Which should get me a preapproval for another credit card with a juicy signup bonus (70k in-branch for the CSP -  almost done clearing 2x CSR for the 100k bonus)

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Re: No active auto loan on his credit report? SUSPICIOUS!
« Reply #77 on: December 09, 2016, 08:57:02 AM »

We are in the process of fucking Chase. Various credit card signup bonuses, and today I plan to set up another $500 draw from Chase through opening new accounts/depositing cash fro 90 days. Which should get me a preapproval for another credit card with a juicy signup bonus (70k in-branch for the CSP -  almost done clearing 2x CSR for the 100k bonus)

Chase is such a juicy whore that way. Enjoy, but wear protection. That bank has pulled some trains.

[MOD NOTE: Yes, I know this is the Internetz, but let's not do the creepy sex metaphors.  Thankz.  You guyz rool.]
« Last Edit: December 09, 2016, 09:15:14 AM by FrugalToque »

TomTX

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Re: No active auto loan on his credit report? SUSPICIOUS!
« Reply #78 on: December 09, 2016, 01:15:34 PM »
I had a pleasant visit at the Chase office, and am now set up for the $500 bonus once I get the direct deposit from my side gig switched over, and the e-fund sits there for 90 days.

No preapprovals waiting though.

Primm

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Re: No active auto loan on his credit report? SUSPICIOUS!
« Reply #79 on: December 11, 2016, 06:07:55 PM »


One of the reasons I don't do business with Chase is because back when I was co-owner of a small investment real estate company with a couple of my buddies, we bought a property with a wrap mortgage that allowed for a refinancing. When the time came to refinance with Chase, they refused to approve a loan until my partners and I all signed a document asserting that none of us were in a sexual relationship with any of the others. My opinion is that such documents are grossly inappropriate in a business situation. So I wanted to make our signatures on the loan documents contingent on written proof that the president of Chase wasn't fucking anyone over a desk or in a supply cabinet, but being a minority partner I was outvoted.

Da Actual FUQ???

How is this any of their business even if you were???? Married (and unmarried) couples go into business all the time together!

Dicey

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Re: No active auto loan on his credit report? SUSPICIOUS!
« Reply #80 on: December 11, 2016, 09:58:03 PM »
If I had $928k cash, I'd be FIRE.
Um, Yes.


Note to TGS: You're da bomb!

Ralph2

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Re: No active auto loan on his credit report? SUSPICIOUS!
« Reply #81 on: December 12, 2016, 12:24:58 AM »
It is not only loans that can be affected by no loans on a credit report.

Several of us at work had trouble recently with security checks because we don't have credit card debts, car loans and large housing debts, but instead we have increasing bank accounts & investments and own one or more houses free & clear.

Explaining to a person who can not understand paying off houses, any credit card balances in full and having any investments outside of super (OZ 401K?) takes a lot of effort.

Also it is not just possible to palm it off (or pay cash ) as you need to convince this person you are not a security risk, (ie not a drug dealer or selling classified info to the enemy) to maintain your employment.

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Re: No active auto loan on his credit report? SUSPICIOUS!
« Reply #82 on: December 12, 2016, 06:23:14 AM »
If I had $928k cash, I'd be FIRE.
Um, Yes.
Haha! I guess I forgot that part. You SoCal-ers live in an alternate housing reality.

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Re: No active auto loan on his credit report? SUSPICIOUS!
« Reply #83 on: December 12, 2016, 07:51:52 AM »
I had a pleasant visit at the Chase office, and am now set up for the $500 bonus once I get the direct deposit from my side gig switched over, and the e-fund sits there for 90 days.

No preapprovals waiting though.

I'm glad your story had a happy ending.

SoccerLounge

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Re: No active auto loan on his credit report? SUSPICIOUS!
« Reply #84 on: December 12, 2016, 09:19:21 PM »
Mine did too, incidentally. I now live in the house in question. And I didn't even have to go buy a new car on credit to do it!  :)

Dicey

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Re: No active auto loan on his credit report? SUSPICIOUS!
« Reply #85 on: December 12, 2016, 11:39:32 PM »
If I had $928k cash, I'd be FIRE.
Um, Yes.
Haha! I guess I forgot that part. You SoCal-ers live in an alternate housing reality.
That's funnier than you know, jn. I actually live in Northern CA, which some might say is almost another state, lol. We also have three single family rentals in inland SoCal that combined are worth about the same as the one in NorCal. In all cases, they are in HCOLAs, but moderately so*, if that makes one lick of sense.   

*Edated to claeify that surrounding communities are even more expensive.
« Last Edit: December 14, 2016, 05:05:43 AM by Diane C »

theadvicist

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Re: No active auto loan on his credit report? SUSPICIOUS!
« Reply #86 on: December 13, 2016, 04:38:46 AM »
The UK has really strict 'affordability tests' and also really strict money laundering regs.

We had to go through EVERYTHING during an hour long phone interview - how much do you spend on eating out each month? He was freaked out because I had YNAB open and was like, "Monthly average of 84.67". He also had 3 years worth of copies of statements from every bank account we have. 

An actual conversation I had with the mortgage guy who was checking our affordability:
 
MG: So, we've been through your income and expenses. Each month you bring in x, and each month you spend 0.5x.
Me: Yes, we are big savers.
MG: OK, you passed the affordability test! I see you are borrowing less than the value of the current mortgage?
Me: Yes, we will paying off y thousands of pounds, to get our loan to value ratio to 50%, so we qualify for the lower interest rate.
MG: OK. Where did you get the money from?
Me: We... earn x, we spend 0.5x.
MG: Yes, but all this money you are paying off the mortgage with, where did it come from?
Me: We... don't spend everything we earn.
MG: Yes, but this lump sum, was it a gift? An inheritance? I need to know where it came from.
Me: ?????????????????

Despite three years copies of every bank account we have, showing x going in 0.5x going out in expenses, and 0.5x transferring into the savings account, I had to sign a document saying "We saved this money from our regular income over the course of the last 5 years".

Reynold

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Re: No active auto loan on his credit report? SUSPICIOUS!
« Reply #87 on: December 13, 2016, 09:30:45 AM »
Here's an example: My brother was buying a house. On the day before closing, his lender started demanding tons of documentation that simply wasn't available.

This does not surprise me, based on our experience with buying and selling a few places nobody involved in a real estate transaction seems to actually start working on it until a few days before.  Apparently so many fall through they don't want to bother, so at the last minute lawyers start fed-exing documents around (and charging you for it), paperwork starts getting looked at, and so on.  No matter how often you ask if they need anything else, they don't tell you till the last minute. 

We tend to get in trouble because we actually read things before we sign them, first of all nobody allows for that kind of time in meetings, since there are piles of documents now, and second it causes "issues" when we find mistakes they have made.  Example: on our mortgage application, I notice that they have my salary listed as about 10% too low.  I point this out, and the mortgage broker says "Don't worry about it, you qualify anyway."  Well, at the end we are signing that we agree with everything on the document, and if we are aware of anything wrong, they can charge us with fraud, so we aren't happy with that.  But I am sure we can rely on his verbal assurances, despite the disclaimer on the document that it overrides any verbal promises, right?

ysette9

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Re: No active auto loan on his credit report? SUSPICIOUS!
« Reply #88 on: December 13, 2016, 09:57:51 AM »
When we were signing papers to purchase our townhouse we (two engineers) actually read everything and double checked the math on the closing statement. We asked questions about things we didn't understand. I'd like to think that we are smart and educated people and grasp these concepts reasonably quickly. Even still, we went way over our alloyed meeting time with the loan agent and notary and they had to bring in new people to finish out the signing process because the original set had to be on to their next signing. I can only conclude that people do not read the loan documents they sign. No wonder we had a mortgage crisis.

MgoSam

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Re: No active auto loan on his credit report? SUSPICIOUS!
« Reply #89 on: December 13, 2016, 10:02:54 AM »
Here's an example: My brother was buying a house. On the day before closing, his lender started demanding tons of documentation that simply wasn't available.

This does not surprise me, based on our experience with buying and selling a few places nobody involved in a real estate transaction seems to actually start working on it until a few days before.  Apparently so many fall through they don't want to bother, so at the last minute lawyers start fed-exing documents around (and charging you for it), paperwork starts getting looked at, and so on.  No matter how often you ask if they need anything else, they don't tell you till the last minute. 

We tend to get in trouble because we actually read things before we sign them, first of all nobody allows for that kind of time in meetings, since there are piles of documents now, and second it causes "issues" when we find mistakes they have made.  Example: on our mortgage application, I notice that they have my salary listed as about 10% too low.  I point this out, and the mortgage broker says "Don't worry about it, you qualify anyway."  Well, at the end we are signing that we agree with everything on the document, and if we are aware of anything wrong, they can charge us with fraud, so we aren't happy with that.  But I am sure we can rely on his verbal assurances, despite the disclaimer on the document that it overrides any verbal promises, right?

That is correct, I can't remember the term but verbal promises do not override anything on the contract, that said if you are already approved then I'm sure there won't be any problems.

For my mortgage, I demanded the paperwork a week before the closing date and emailed them daily until I got it 2 days before hand and went through it and got nearly all my questions answered. My closing was extremely smooth as a result.

mtn

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Re: No active auto loan on his credit report? SUSPICIOUS!
« Reply #90 on: December 13, 2016, 10:16:52 AM »
When we were signing papers to purchase our townhouse we (two engineers) actually read everything and double checked the math on the closing statement. We asked questions about things we didn't understand. I'd like to think that we are smart and educated people and grasp these concepts reasonably quickly. Even still, we went way over our alloyed meeting time with the loan agent and notary and they had to bring in new people to finish out the signing process because the original set had to be on to their next signing. I can only conclude that people do not read the loan documents they sign. No wonder we had a mortgage crisis.

I read through everything the week prior. There were only about 20 new pages to read.

With This Herring

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Re: No active auto loan on his credit report? SUSPICIOUS!
« Reply #91 on: December 13, 2016, 02:45:37 PM »
We tend to get in trouble because we actually read things before we sign them, first of all nobody allows for that kind of time in meetings, since there are piles of documents now, and second it causes "issues" when we find mistakes they have made.  Example: on our mortgage application, I notice that they have my salary listed as about 10% too low.  I point this out, and the mortgage broker says "Don't worry about it, you qualify anyway."  Well, at the end we are signing that we agree with everything on the document, and if we are aware of anything wrong, they can charge us with fraud, so we aren't happy with that.  But I am sure we can rely on his verbal assurances, despite the disclaimer on the document that it overrides any verbal promises, right?

I am not a lawyer, but I think that a good course of action would have been to strike out the wrong salary, fill in the correct salary, and have all parties initial next to the change.

Playing with Fire UK

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Re: No active auto loan on his credit report? SUSPICIOUS!
« Reply #92 on: December 14, 2016, 01:57:06 AM »
We tend to get in trouble because we actually read things before we sign them, first of all nobody allows for that kind of time in meetings, since there are piles of documents now, and second it causes "issues" when we find mistakes they have made.  Example: on our mortgage application, I notice that they have my salary listed as about 10% too low.  I point this out, and the mortgage broker says "Don't worry about it, you qualify anyway."  Well, at the end we are signing that we agree with everything on the document, and if we are aware of anything wrong, they can charge us with fraud, so we aren't happy with that.  But I am sure we can rely on his verbal assurances, despite the disclaimer on the document that it overrides any verbal promises, right?

I am not a lawyer, but I think that a good course of action would have been to strike out the wrong salary, fill in the correct salary, and have all parties initial next to the change.

This happened on my mortgage because they used the salary from the last full financial year as this was the easiest for them to evidence. It went through fine.

Dicey

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Re: No active auto loan on his credit report? SUSPICIOUS!
« Reply #93 on: December 14, 2016, 05:52:36 AM »
Here's an example: My brother was buying a house. On the day before closing, his lender started demanding tons of documentation that simply wasn't available.

This does not surprise me, based on our experience with buying and selling a few places nobody involved in a real estate transaction seems to actually start working on it until a few days before.  Apparently so many fall through they don't want to bother, so at the last minute lawyers start fed-exing documents around (and charging you for it), paperwork starts getting looked at, and so on.  No matter how often you ask if they need anything else, they don't tell you till the last minute.

What the hell, since we're already off topic, let's wade in a little further, shall we? My brother's name is changed to protect his privacy. He's really my brother, but brother is not his real name.

In my brother's case, on day one of the transaction, he explained to his mortgage broker (with whom he has dealt with on multiple transactions) that his wife owns property in China, had sold one recently, and that some of the down payment money was coming from that transaction. He explained that if they needed any documentation, he needed to know in advance, because getting anything would require her flying to China, obtaining the documents, having them professionally translated, then hand carrying them back, which they were willing to do, if needed. "No problem, not necessary" he was told time after time, until the afternoon before the promised closing. The seller was literally packed for an out-of-state transfer, with the moving van parked in front of the house. The broker called with a list of documents that "needed" to be "faxed" from China. Sorry, you dumb basses [sic], China doesn't work that way. (See: lhamo.) And no, the exact documents you want don't exist in that format, because, it's China. They don't conduct their real estate transactions on the same forms we do, only printed in Chinese. Sigh. (See also: lhamo).

Then the escrow company wanted a letter saying the money from me (entire purchase amount) was a gift, which we both refused to do. We wrote something to the effect that we were siblings with a long history of having each other's backs, and that I was merely helping him out in the face of impossible demands made by the lender. It closed and somehow the lender figured something out and my brother's loan was secured a few days later. Who could make this stuff up?

Playing with Fire UK

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Re: No active auto loan on his credit report? SUSPICIOUS!
« Reply #94 on: December 15, 2016, 01:26:50 AM »
MG: OK. Where did you get the money from?
Me: We... earn x, we spend 0.5x.
MG: Yes, but all this money you are paying off the mortgage with, where did it come from?
Me: We... don't spend everything we earn.
MG: Yes, but this lump sum, was it a gift? An inheritance? I need to know where it came from.
Me: ?????????????????

Despite three years copies of every bank account we have, showing x going in 0.5x going out in expenses, and 0.5x transferring into the savings account, I had to sign a document saying "We saved this money from our regular income over the course of the last 5 years".

I think that 90% of the disconnect between MMM folks and the people we mock on the AMS&C Wall is the fact that if you avoid spending 0.05x ten times a month you can save 0.5x per month and if you do that for 10 months you have 5x, and after 100 months you have 50x and that can be a LOT of money.

0.05x might not be a lot but they all add up. 

Playing with Fire UK

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Re: No active auto loan on his credit report? SUSPICIOUS!
« Reply #95 on: December 15, 2016, 01:33:15 AM »
In my brother's case, on day one of the transaction, he explained to his mortgage broker (with whom he has dealt with on multiple transactions) that his wife owns property in China, had sold one recently, and that some of the down payment money was coming from that transaction. He explained that if they needed any documentation, he needed to know in advance, because getting anything would require her flying to China, obtaining the documents, having them professionally translated, then hand carrying them back, which they were willing to do, if needed. "No problem, not necessary" he was told time after time, until the afternoon before the promised closing. The seller was literally packed for an out-of-state transfer, with the moving van parked in front of the house. The broker called with a list of documents that "needed" to be "faxed" from China. Sorry, you dumb basses [sic], China doesn't work that way. (See: lhamo.) And no, the exact documents you want don't exist in that format, because, it's China. They don't conduct their real estate transactions on the same forms we do, only printed in Chinese. Sigh. (See also: lhamo).

This kind of bullshit seems to be typical. When I was buying my current home (without a mortgage) I set up an autoreply to the conveyancers saying 'if you have asked for yet more documentation on behalf of the mortgage company, please remember that there is no mortgage company'. It was like pulling teeth.

malacca

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300K Mortgage with 150K down denied!
« Reply #96 on: January 01, 2017, 01:15:30 AM »
I lived overseas for 20+ years. I maintained a US bank account but no credit cards. No bad credit on my file.

I did have credit cards from two other countries that I could use for rental cars, etc.

Before moving back to the USA, I invested heavily in real estate after the crash. I bought and sold a few dozen homes (cash of course). I kept a several to live in and and to rent. I paid cash for all of them and had zero debt of any kind.

I moved to another state (kind of at the last moment) for my kids education. I had $150,000 in my checking / saving account at Wells Fargo. I have had the account for 30+ years.

I needed to buy a house in the new state (I actually owned one property (summer home) there but it was on the other side of town from the new school). I had $6K a month in income from overseas employer as well as other business income and rental income.

I was looking at houses in the 250K to 300K range (cheap for this school district). Mind you I had $150K for a down payment! Couldn't get a dime from any bank. Obviously I had no W-2s - but I did have income from 3 sources. So even if I lost my job I would still have 2 other sources - more than enough to meet my needs and pay the mortgage.

Luckily I found a double foreclosure in the school district for 100K - and 20K to fix it up. It is fine but not the home we really wanted.

Since then I realized how important our insane credit reporting is. I applied for a bunch of credit cards and used them to purchase stuff and my credit rating is excellent.

Now the bank keeps offering to loan me money (HeLoC, credit line, etc.). I remind the bankers of the "150K down on a 300K home denied loan."

The moral of the story is that "Bank Are Morons".


gimp

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Re: No active auto loan on his credit report? SUSPICIOUS!
« Reply #97 on: January 01, 2017, 04:05:21 PM »
To be fair, many people who offer $150k down on a $300k home with no W2s are often ... not earning their money legally. Banks may not want anything to do with you for more reasons than lack of credit history.