New Trend - Stay at Home Girlfriends

[lifeisshort123]

I stumbled upon this WSJ article:

https://www.wsj.com/style/fashion/stay-at-home-girlfriends-tiktok-instagram-sahg-b7c20c6a

The article line I found particularly interesting was the anti-FIRE remarks in it:

“ All the women I spoke to have their own bank accounts, which they supplement through income made with content creation—affiliate links, brand deals. Therein lies the irony of much stay-at-home girlfriend content. While the videos might paint a picture of a life of leisure, they usually omit the nitty-gritty reality of influencer hustling.

Sacks said that in that way it reminded her of the “FIRE” (Financial Independence, Retire Early) movement: “They’re like, ‘We quit our jobs. We live in a van,’ whatever, but they’re making money being ‘FIRE’ bloggers.”

“That’s what a lot of my viewers don’t see,” said Wan of her content creation. She said, “They think my life is fully funded and supported by the man, but it’s really not what it seems.”


So… the Stay at Home Girlfriend movement…. Thoughts?

And, the FIRE comments I found kind of silly and absurd.

[eyesonthehorizon]

Thanks for posting the FIRE-relevant quotes outside the paywall, I can't read the full article. In short, I do not think there is a significant basis in reality for a "movement" here, it's just a popular marketing brand for a season.

I have heard several times about the SAHG idea but couldn't see anything going on beyond standard influencer bait. Influencers sell a narrative, a daydream, sometimes with merchandise attached - constructing idealized social media for the purpose of amassing attention, usually with an end goal of monetizing it. All influencers have a "brand" or hobby; SAHG-themed content would be portraying oneself as an idealized trophy girlfriend of an existing boyfriend.

Since most compensation or monetization opportunities are through sponsored product placement, the consumerism is generally thick enough to stand a spoon in. This is the same stripe of media that brought us "hauls" (in which a content creator narrates unpacking the many shopping bags from their latest spending spree, usually in a hopeful effort to recoup money with which to do more shopping - I wonder about the overlap with genuine shopping addiction among creators vs. the audience.)

I suspect part of the "rise" in this manufactured content is sincere idealization or envy of a perceived wealthy lifestyle which feels very out of reach to the young target audience (male & female) on these platforms, but another (larger?) part is essentially hate-watching - Instagram & TikTok are making their ad revenue as long as it gets clicks, so if content stirs up controversy over social issues like feminism & misogyny like this one often does that's only more lucrative. WSJ is essentially inserting itself as a middleman on some of that traffic, baiting clicks to their coverage for their own ad revenue, so it would be in their best interests to make a titillating narrative full of twists & secrets out of it.

That the interviewee thinks the FIRE movement is best represented by equivalent influencers seems to me like too much credulous time spent on TikTok watching influencer talking heads, but they aren't presumably a journalist. Some of the loudest voices talking about FIRE circa 2016-2019 in an active effort to gain mainstream attention were latecomers trying to co-opt the FIRE movement into their own brand personas, but if you didn't investigate you might very well think everyone associated with the label is just another blogger & equally full of hot air.

[theninthwall]

I suspect the 'stay at home girlfriend' and moreso the 'tradwife' thing is not a trend based in reality, despite the TikTok and Instagram accounts popping up. It's visually appealing roleplaying.

The tradwife thing in particular is taking advantage of the gullible, young alt-right audience to extract money from them (just the latest in a long line of people to do so, see Andrew Tate et al). As noted above, far from being reliant on husbands or partners, they are clever people engaged in a business. I'd much rather see them devote their efforts to something morally beneficial to society than fulfilling a misogynistic kink, but oh well.

While FIRE certainly has its share of influencers trying to make a buck from the trend, at it's heart it does not portray an unrealistic, unattainable or unhealthy message, and that's the difference. If you took two groups of women (or men, it doesn't really matter), with one dedicated to financial independence and another dedicated to becoming SAHGs, I know which one would have the healthier outcomes.

[dcheesi]

I suspect the 'stay at home girlfriend' and moreso the 'tradwife' thing is not a trend based in reality, despite the TikTok and Instagram accounts popping up. It's visually appealing roleplaying.

The tradwife thing in particular is taking advantage of the gullible, young alt-right audience to extract money from them (just the latest in a long line of people to do so, see Andrew Tate et al). As noted above, far from being reliant on husbands or partners, they are clever people engaged in a business. I'd much rather see them devote their efforts to something morally beneficial to society than fulfilling a misogynistic kink, but oh well.

While FIRE certainly has its share of influencers trying to make a buck from the trend, at it's heart it does not portray an unrealistic, unattainable or unhealthy message, and that's the difference. If you took two groups of women (or men, it doesn't really matter), with one dedicated to financial independence and another dedicated to becoming SAHGs, I know which one would have the healthier outcomes.

Ironically, the two examples of younger SAH-Gf/Wives from my own experience were both hyper-liberal feminists when they graduated college. I think it's more a case of theory vs. reality; these were young women whose boyfriends had stable career jobs, while they themselves were faced with the the kinds of poorly-paid service-industry jobs that a pure liberal-arts degree buys you these days. As long as the boyfriends/husbands are willing to support them, SAH and/or pursuing unconventional careers/hustles is probably a lot more appealing.

[sonofsven]

I couldn't read the whole article, but I didn't read the bit about FIRE as anti FIRE; more anti disingenuous blogger than anything.
There was a long thread recently about The Frugalwoods, which I knew nothing about, but apparently they were a frugal living website, but the husband was pulling down a big salary which they didn't really talk about.
I think that's more what the complaint (which is really a justification) is about.

[eyesonthehorizon]

Ironically, the two examples of younger SAH-Gf/Wives from my own experience were both hyper-liberal feminists when they graduated college. I think it's more a case of theory vs. reality ...

You indicate they are youngER, but were they from an older generation? It's mostly ironic if the feminist theory presented suggests women MUST occupy traditionally-male roles, which is half a century outmoded. Modern feminism is pretty blunt about the ruthless economic realities of sexism in the workplace generally, but especially the high cost of childcare, miserable state of parent leave (at least in the US), & employers' tendencies to impose "mommy penalty" & "fatherhood bonus." OTOH everyone in America, male, female, & otherwise, is perpetually one big break away from fame & fortune....

"Being the change you want to see" is one thing, but feeling obligated to be a careerist, just to prove women can too, isn't actually a feminist take, & all the millennial-age women & younger I know were extremely aware of this even as they feel simultaneous mainstream cultural pressure to be providers. As several recent threads show, even self-funded women-FIREees get shit for quitting if their male partners still work.

On the other hand, as theninthwall said, much of the (female & male) audience gazing with approval on idealistic SAHG or tradwife content tends to be passively or explicitly antifeminist, believing women have a "proper place." The notable but minority exception among those who approve are people who are willing to concede how (financially) transactional the arrangement patently is, who fall all over the spectrum, but they are generally themselves less idealistic & recognize it as a form of media career, sex work or "sugaring," or both. Last as aforementioned there are the hatewatchers & concerned parents, who also fall all over the spectrum.

[GilesMM]

If the bf is not willing to marry her she is smart to have her own income in case he gets tired of her or she of him.

[Chris Pascale]

They gotta knock the new methods and ideas to convince people still reading their content that they are smart for doing so.

It's kind of a kids these days sort of thing.

[Metalcat]

Ironically, the two examples of younger SAH-Gf/Wives from my own experience were both hyper-liberal feminists when they graduated college. I think it's more a case of theory vs. reality ...

You indicate they are youngER, but were they from an older generation? It's mostly ironic if the feminist theory presented suggests women MUST occupy traditionally-male roles, which is half a century outmoded. Modern feminism is pretty blunt about the ruthless economic realities of sexism in the workplace generally, but especially the high cost of childcare, miserable state of parent leave (at least in the US), & employers' tendencies to impose "mommy penalty" & "fatherhood bonus." OTOH everyone in America, male, female, & otherwise, is perpetually one big break away from fame & fortune....

"Being the change you want to see" is one thing, but feeling obligated to be a careerist, just to prove women can too, isn't actually a feminist take, & all the millennial-age women & younger I know were extremely aware of this even as they feel simultaneous mainstream cultural pressure to be providers. As several recent threads show, even self-funded women-FIREees get shit for quitting if their male partners still work.

On the other hand, as theninthwall said, much of the (female & male) audience gazing with approval on idealistic SAHG or tradwife content tends to be passively or explicitly antifeminist, believing women have a "proper place." The notable but minority exception among those who approve are people who are willing to concede how (financially) transactional the arrangement patently is, who fall all over the spectrum, but they are generally themselves less idealistic & recognize it as a form of media career, sex work or "sugaring," or both. Last as aforementioned there are the hatewatchers & concerned parents, who also fall all over the spectrum.

Yeah, as a woman who was in a traditional male professional power role/primary breadwinner and who is now a stay at home wife financially supported by my husband, I cringe at either lifestyle being defined as feminist or not feminist.

Granted I'm not an influencer making money while trying to claim I don't make money, I have no comment on that. Influencer culture is all sorts of messy and toxic.

[dcheesi]

Ironically, the two examples of younger SAH-Gf/Wives from my own experience were both hyper-liberal feminists when they graduated college. I think it's more a case of theory vs. reality ...

You indicate they are youngER, but were they from an older generation? It's mostly ironic if the feminist theory presented suggests women MUST occupy traditionally-male roles, which is half a century outmoded. Modern feminism is pretty blunt about the ruthless economic realities of sexism in the workplace generally, but especially the high cost of childcare, miserable state of parent leave (at least in the US), & employers' tendencies to impose "mommy penalty" & "fatherhood bonus." OTOH everyone in America, male, female, & otherwise, is perpetually one big break away from fame & fortune....

"Being the change you want to see" is one thing, but feeling obligated to be a careerist, just to prove women can too, isn't actually a feminist take, & all the millennial-age women & younger I know were extremely aware of this even as they feel simultaneous mainstream cultural pressure to be providers. As several recent threads show, even self-funded women-FIREees get shit for quitting if their male partners still work.

On the other hand, as theninthwall said, much of the (female & male) audience gazing with approval on idealistic SAHG or tradwife content tends to be passively or explicitly antifeminist, believing women have a "proper place." The notable but minority exception among those who approve are people who are willing to concede how (financially) transactional the arrangement patently is, who fall all over the spectrum, but they are generally themselves less idealistic & recognize it as a form of media career, sex work or "sugaring," or both. Last as aforementioned there are the hatewatchers & concerned parents, who also fall all over the spectrum.

Yeah, as a woman who was in a traditional male professional power role/primary breadwinner and who is now a stay at home wife financially supported by my husband, I cringe at either lifestyle being defined as feminist or not feminist.

Granted I'm not an influencer making money while trying to claim I don't make money, I have no comment on that. Influencer culture is all sorts of messy and toxic.

That's a good point. The older example I do feel like had more of a "never depend on a man" vibe, which is why I was surprised when she went full SAH. But that might have been my old Xer brain filling in gaps with outdated assumptions, like eyesonthehorizon said.

[Zamboni]

If the bf is not willing to marry her she is smart to have her own income in case he gets tired of her or she of him.

It's just as possible that she is not willing to marry him.

Some folks (both women and men) completely embrace the "SAHG" mentality. And what I mean is many of the folks interested in this lifestyle seek to completely avoid working either in-the-home or for employers. For the near-term, they don't want to take care of children and they might not even do housework. The core of their behavior is desire to avoid any formal long term commitment but still live & sleep with someone else who pays all the bills. For folks who float from partner to partner doing this, the hilariously descriptive term I've seen applied to it is "hobosexual."

Someone I know well had a hobosexual move in with her a few years after her divorce. He was happy to bring his teenage son and live in her house as her boyfriend, but there were all kinds of reasons why he wasn't ever trying to find a job. His excuse was that he was busy "taking care of her yard," but she only had a 0.25 acre yard, so not exactly full-time work. As far as I could see he just floated from lady to lady doing this as long as he could in each place until either they kicked him out or he grew tired of them. He was charming and I really liked him, and my friend was clearly smitten, so I hoped for my friend that I was wrong about him and his motivations (but I wasn't.)

Then I witnessed another young lady who was clearly intentionally doing it. Never working, living with each boyfriend until he kicked her out, and then she would make excuses about how mean he was and urgently find another guy who would let her move in. She had no interest in marriage or having kids. Rinse and repeat. Each relationship seemed to last a little less than 2 years.

It has become socially acceptable to "live together" in many Western cultures, so this philosophy is gaining traction and people can talk openly about doing it. If you don't have children or elderly or disabled relatives to care for, exactly how much time does it take each day to take care of the basic tasks for a household of 2 adults? Not much. I mean many people manage to do it while working full time. So a couple hours a day, tops, even if you are cooking from scratch? I cook from scratch: it's pretty quick and easy if you are skilled. And don't kid yourself: many of the modern SAHG's are ordering ubereats regularly.

[Metalcat]

If the bf is not willing to marry her she is smart to have her own income in case he gets tired of her or she of him.

It's just as possible that she is not willing to marry him.

Some folks (both women and men) completely embrace the "SAHG" mentality. And what I mean is many of the folks interested in this lifestyle seek to completely avoid working either in-the-home or for employers. For the near-term, they don't want to take care of children and they might not even do housework. The core of their behavior is desire to avoid any formal long term commitment but still live & sleep with someone else who pays all the bills. For folks who float from partner to partner doing this, the hilariously descriptive term I've seen applied to it is "hobosexual."

Someone I know well had a hobosexual move in with her a few years after her divorce. He was happy to bring his teenage son and live in her house as her boyfriend, but there were all kinds of reasons why he wasn't ever trying to find a job. His excuse was that he was busy "taking care of her yard," but she only had a 0.25 acre yard, so not exactly full-time work. As far as I could see he just floated from lady to lady doing this as long as he could in each place until either they kicked him out or he grew tired of them. He was charming and I really liked him, and my friend was clearly smitten, so I hoped for my friend that I was wrong about him and his motivations (but I wasn't.)

Then I witnessed another young lady who was clearly intentionally doing it. Never working, living with each boyfriend until he kicked her out, and then she would make excuses about how mean he was and urgently find another guy who would let her move in. She had no interest in marriage or having kids. Rinse and repeat. Each relationship seemed to last a little less than 2 years.

It has become socially acceptable to "live together" in many Western cultures, so this philosophy is gaining traction and people can talk openly about doing it. If you don't have children or elderly or disabled relatives to care for, exactly how much time does it take each day to take care of the basic tasks for a household of 2 adults? Not much. I mean many people manage to do it while working full time. So a couple hours a day, tops, even if you are cooking from scratch? I cook from scratch: it's pretty quick and easy if you are skilled. And don't kid yourself: many of the modern SAHG's are ordering ubereats regularly.

100% this. I have seen sooooo many hobosexual men in my time, it's actually WAY more common than people realize.

[Kris]

If the bf is not willing to marry her she is smart to have her own income in case he gets tired of her or she of him.

It's just as possible that she is not willing to marry him.

Some folks (both women and men) completely embrace the "SAHG" mentality. And what I mean is many of the folks interested in this lifestyle seek to completely avoid working either in-the-home or for employers. For the near-term, they don't want to take care of children and they might not even do housework. The core of their behavior is desire to avoid any formal long term commitment but still live & sleep with someone else who pays all the bills. For folks who float from partner to partner doing this, the hilariously descriptive term I've seen applied to it is "hobosexual."

Someone I know well had a hobosexual move in with her a few years after her divorce. He was happy to bring his teenage son and live in her house as her boyfriend, but there were all kinds of reasons why he wasn't ever trying to find a job. His excuse was that he was busy "taking care of her yard," but she only had a 0.25 acre yard, so not exactly full-time work. As far as I could see he just floated from lady to lady doing this as long as he could in each place until either they kicked him out or he grew tired of them. He was charming and I really liked him, and my friend was clearly smitten, so I hoped for my friend that I was wrong about him and his motivations (but I wasn't.)

Then I witnessed another young lady who was clearly intentionally doing it. Never working, living with each boyfriend until he kicked her out, and then she would make excuses about how mean he was and urgently find another guy who would let her move in. She had no interest in marriage or having kids. Rinse and repeat. Each relationship seemed to last a little less than 2 years.

It has become socially acceptable to "live together" in many Western cultures, so this philosophy is gaining traction and people can talk openly about doing it. If you don't have children or elderly or disabled relatives to care for, exactly how much time does it take each day to take care of the basic tasks for a household of 2 adults? Not much. I mean many people manage to do it while working full time. So a couple hours a day, tops, even if you are cooking from scratch? I cook from scratch: it's pretty quick and easy if you are skilled. And don't kid yourself: many of the modern SAHG's are ordering ubereats regularly.

100% this. I have seen sooooo many hobosexual men in my time, it's actually WAY more common than people realize.

Ugh, the hobosexuals. Yep. I had a couple of those in my early twenties and then spent a ton of time trying to avoid them. Then when I started teaching university, I saw sooooooooo many great, intelligent young women get serious boyfriends who were just… lazy unmotivated gamers looking for a live-in maid to have sex with and pay the majority of the bills and rent. It was so depressing.

[ATtiny85]

I have met a couple guys over the years who were welcomed into what seemed like stud work. One 2LT in the Army went to Hollywood to “advise” on the military content for her films. Sounded like he did most of the advising behind closed doors. Good work if you can get it…

[Michael in ABQ]

If the bf is not willing to marry her she is smart to have her own income in case he gets tired of her or she of him.

It's just as possible that she is not willing to marry him.

Some folks (both women and men) completely embrace the "SAHG" mentality. And what I mean is many of the folks interested in this lifestyle seek to completely avoid working either in-the-home or for employers. For the near-term, they don't want to take care of children and they might not even do housework. The core of their behavior is desire to avoid any formal long term commitment but still live & sleep with someone else who pays all the bills. For folks who float from partner to partner doing this, the hilariously descriptive term I've seen applied to it is "hobosexual."

Someone I know well had a hobosexual move in with her a few years after her divorce. He was happy to bring his teenage son and live in her house as her boyfriend, but there were all kinds of reasons why he wasn't ever trying to find a job. His excuse was that he was busy "taking care of her yard," but she only had a 0.25 acre yard, so not exactly full-time work. As far as I could see he just floated from lady to lady doing this as long as he could in each place until either they kicked him out or he grew tired of them. He was charming and I really liked him, and my friend was clearly smitten, so I hoped for my friend that I was wrong about him and his motivations (but I wasn't.)

Then I witnessed another young lady who was clearly intentionally doing it. Never working, living with each boyfriend until he kicked her out, and then she would make excuses about how mean he was and urgently find another guy who would let her move in. She had no interest in marriage or having kids. Rinse and repeat. Each relationship seemed to last a little less than 2 years.

It has become socially acceptable to "live together" in many Western cultures, so this philosophy is gaining traction and people can talk openly about doing it. If you don't have children or elderly or disabled relatives to care for, exactly how much time does it take each day to take care of the basic tasks for a household of 2 adults? Not much. I mean many people manage to do it while working full time. So a couple hours a day, tops, even if you are cooking from scratch? I cook from scratch: it's pretty quick and easy if you are skilled. And don't kid yourself: many of the modern SAHG's are ordering ubereats regularly.

Sounds like a deadbeat.


It also reminded me of this song.
The Offspring - Why Don't You Get A Job? (Official Music Video)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LH-i8IvYIcg

[Freedomin5]

If the bf is not willing to marry her she is smart to have her own income in case he gets tired of her or she of him.

It's just as possible that she is not willing to marry him.

Some folks (both women and men) completely embrace the "SAHG" mentality. And what I mean is many of the folks interested in this lifestyle seek to completely avoid working either in-the-home or for employers. For the near-term, they don't want to take care of children and they might not even do housework. The core of their behavior is desire to avoid any formal long term commitment but still live & sleep with someone else who pays all the bills. For folks who float from partner to partner doing this, the hilariously descriptive term I've seen applied to it is "hobosexual."

Someone I know well had a hobosexual move in with her a few years after her divorce. He was happy to bring his teenage son and live in her house as her boyfriend, but there were all kinds of reasons why he wasn't ever trying to find a job. His excuse was that he was busy "taking care of her yard," but she only had a 0.25 acre yard, so not exactly full-time work. As far as I could see he just floated from lady to lady doing this as long as he could in each place until either they kicked him out or he grew tired of them. He was charming and I really liked him, and my friend was clearly smitten, so I hoped for my friend that I was wrong about him and his motivations (but I wasn't.)

Then I witnessed another young lady who was clearly intentionally doing it. Never working, living with each boyfriend until he kicked her out, and then she would make excuses about how mean he was and urgently find another guy who would let her move in. She had no interest in marriage or having kids. Rinse and repeat. Each relationship seemed to last a little less than 2 years.

It has become socially acceptable to "live together" in many Western cultures, so this philosophy is gaining traction and people can talk openly about doing it. If you don't have children or elderly or disabled relatives to care for, exactly how much time does it take each day to take care of the basic tasks for a household of 2 adults? Not much. I mean many people manage to do it while working full time. So a couple hours a day, tops, even if you are cooking from scratch? I cook from scratch: it's pretty quick and easy if you are skilled. And don't kid yourself: many of the modern SAHG's are ordering ubereats regularly.

100% this. I have seen sooooo many hobosexual men in my time, it's actually WAY more common than people realize.

Ugh, the hobosexuals. Yep. I had a couple of those in my early twenties and then spent a ton of time trying to avoid them. Then when I started teaching university, I saw sooooooooo many great, intelligent young women get serious boyfriends who were just… lazy unmotivated gamers looking for a live-in maid to have sex with and pay the majority of the bills and rent. It was so depressing.

Couples research suggests that people of similar emotional maturity/health tend to attract each other. So you tend to end up with someone who complements your level of emotional maturity/immaturity/health. It makes you wonder what these intelligent young women learned early in their lives or what emotional damage they sustained to make them believe that this kind of behavior was all they could expect or deserve from a boyfriend/partner/spouse.

[Metalcat]

If the bf is not willing to marry her she is smart to have her own income in case he gets tired of her or she of him.

It's just as possible that she is not willing to marry him.

Some folks (both women and men) completely embrace the "SAHG" mentality. And what I mean is many of the folks interested in this lifestyle seek to completely avoid working either in-the-home or for employers. For the near-term, they don't want to take care of children and they might not even do housework. The core of their behavior is desire to avoid any formal long term commitment but still live & sleep with someone else who pays all the bills. For folks who float from partner to partner doing this, the hilariously descriptive term I've seen applied to it is "hobosexual."

Someone I know well had a hobosexual move in with her a few years after her divorce. He was happy to bring his teenage son and live in her house as her boyfriend, but there were all kinds of reasons why he wasn't ever trying to find a job. His excuse was that he was busy "taking care of her yard," but she only had a 0.25 acre yard, so not exactly full-time work. As far as I could see he just floated from lady to lady doing this as long as he could in each place until either they kicked him out or he grew tired of them. He was charming and I really liked him, and my friend was clearly smitten, so I hoped for my friend that I was wrong about him and his motivations (but I wasn't.)

Then I witnessed another young lady who was clearly intentionally doing it. Never working, living with each boyfriend until he kicked her out, and then she would make excuses about how mean he was and urgently find another guy who would let her move in. She had no interest in marriage or having kids. Rinse and repeat. Each relationship seemed to last a little less than 2 years.

It has become socially acceptable to "live together" in many Western cultures, so this philosophy is gaining traction and people can talk openly about doing it. If you don't have children or elderly or disabled relatives to care for, exactly how much time does it take each day to take care of the basic tasks for a household of 2 adults? Not much. I mean many people manage to do it while working full time. So a couple hours a day, tops, even if you are cooking from scratch? I cook from scratch: it's pretty quick and easy if you are skilled. And don't kid yourself: many of the modern SAHG's are ordering ubereats regularly.

100% this. I have seen sooooo many hobosexual men in my time, it's actually WAY more common than people realize.

Ugh, the hobosexuals. Yep. I had a couple of those in my early twenties and then spent a ton of time trying to avoid them. Then when I started teaching university, I saw sooooooooo many great, intelligent young women get serious boyfriends who were just… lazy unmotivated gamers looking for a live-in maid to have sex with and pay the majority of the bills and rent. It was so depressing.

Couples research suggests that people of similar emotional maturity/health tend to attract each other. So you tend to end up with someone who complements your level of emotional maturity/immaturity/health. It makes you wonder what these intelligent young women learned early in their lives or what emotional damage they sustained to make them believe that this kind of behavior was all they could expect or deserve from a boyfriend/partner/spouse.

In my experience, it's actually emotionality mature women who end up with hobosexuals.

There are two types. The first is essentially a gigolo, the arrangement is clear, they are companionship for housing. These dudes are often older and appeal to older single women who DO NOT want husbands. This breed of hobosexual is often a lot more fit than men his age, will often pick up landscaping or equivalent seasonal work when he needs pocket money. He's often exceedingly charming, but may have a personality disorder or something else that makes him not very suitable for real, long term connection, but for awhile he's very emotionally generous and typically great at sex. This kind of arrangement is transactional, room and board for fun, companionship, and sex. Usual duration is months to a year. No feelings are hurt.

The other kind is opportunistic. Also VERY charming,.sometimes VERY handsome and usually used to have a really respectable career. He seems like an amazing catch and it never occurs to his victim that he isn't actually motivated to get his career back on track. Friends and family adore him and think he's a great catch at first. By the time reality sinks in that his career is not actually getting back on track, she's pretty committed to him and has planned a future with him and willing to give him every benefit of the doubt, and woman are conditioned to support men, so she just can't accept that he's actually not motivated to fix anything, that just doesn't seem possible.

He might start making noises about applying to law school at 46 and even buy himself a full year of "studying for the LSATs." He may even get a job interview or a job here and there, but they often won't work out, never his fault. He also makes very appropriate noises about feeling so much shame about not providing and gets the woman to reassure him constantly of his value as a man and partner despite him not working. Eventually he might start "writing a novel." I circulate among very successful woman and there are more than a few handsome, charming "novelists" who used to have jobs among their men.

It can take a shockingly loooong time for all of the "bad luck" to "this dude was okay being a leech the whole time!"

A lot of very mature, intelligent people can end up eyeballs deep in horrible relationships without even realizing they're being sucked into it.

[GilesMM]

If the bf is not willing to marry her she is smart to have her own income in case he gets tired of her or she of him.

It's just as possible that she is not willing to marry him.

Some folks (both women and men) completely embrace the "SAHG" mentality. And what I mean is many of the folks interested in this lifestyle seek to completely avoid working either in-the-home or for employers. For the near-term, they don't want to take care of children and they might not even do housework. The core of their behavior is desire to avoid any formal long term commitment but still live & sleep with someone else who pays all the bills. For folks who float from partner to partner doing this, the hilariously descriptive term I've seen applied to it is "hobosexual."

Someone I know well had a hobosexual move in with her a few years after her divorce. He was happy to bring his teenage son and live in her house as her boyfriend, but there were all kinds of reasons why he wasn't ever trying to find a job. His excuse was that he was busy "taking care of her yard," but she only had a 0.25 acre yard, so not exactly full-time work. As far as I could see he just floated from lady to lady doing this as long as he could in each place until either they kicked him out or he grew tired of them. He was charming and I really liked him, and my friend was clearly smitten, so I hoped for my friend that I was wrong about him and his motivations (but I wasn't.)

Then I witnessed another young lady who was clearly intentionally doing it. Never working, living with each boyfriend until he kicked her out, and then she would make excuses about how mean he was and urgently find another guy who would let her move in. She had no interest in marriage or having kids. Rinse and repeat. Each relationship seemed to last a little less than 2 years.

It has become socially acceptable to "live together" in many Western cultures, so this philosophy is gaining traction and people can talk openly about doing it. If you don't have children or elderly or disabled relatives to care for, exactly how much time does it take each day to take care of the basic tasks for a household of 2 adults? Not much. I mean many people manage to do it while working full time. So a couple hours a day, tops, even if you are cooking from scratch? I cook from scratch: it's pretty quick and easy if you are skilled. And don't kid yourself: many of the modern SAHG's are ordering ubereats regularly.

100% this. I have seen sooooo many hobosexual men in my time, it's actually WAY more common than people realize.

Ugh, the hobosexuals. Yep. I had a couple of those in my early twenties and then spent a ton of time trying to avoid them. Then when I started teaching university, I saw sooooooooo many great, intelligent young women get serious boyfriends who were just… lazy unmotivated gamers looking for a live-in maid to have sex with and pay the majority of the bills and rent. It was so depressing.

I was in graduate school with a lovely girl who had a hobosexual bf.  He was a good-for-nothing mountain biker dude.   I don't recall him ever having a job.  We couldn't believe she wanted to marry him.  She did and around the same time he got a cockameme idea for a web site. It may have been coupons or something. He managed to get something ginned up and online.  A couple years later it was sold for tens of millions at the height of the dot-com frenzy.  And he went back to mountain biking and lounging on the sofa all day.  They are still together.  She worked as a professor and writer for a couple decades, then they bought a large winery in Santa Barbara and "retired".

[Kris]

If the bf is not willing to marry her she is smart to have her own income in case he gets tired of her or she of him.

It's just as possible that she is not willing to marry him.

Some folks (both women and men) completely embrace the "SAHG" mentality. And what I mean is many of the folks interested in this lifestyle seek to completely avoid working either in-the-home or for employers. For the near-term, they don't want to take care of children and they might not even do housework. The core of their behavior is desire to avoid any formal long term commitment but still live & sleep with someone else who pays all the bills. For folks who float from partner to partner doing this, the hilariously descriptive term I've seen applied to it is "hobosexual."

Someone I know well had a hobosexual move in with her a few years after her divorce. He was happy to bring his teenage son and live in her house as her boyfriend, but there were all kinds of reasons why he wasn't ever trying to find a job. His excuse was that he was busy "taking care of her yard," but she only had a 0.25 acre yard, so not exactly full-time work. As far as I could see he just floated from lady to lady doing this as long as he could in each place until either they kicked him out or he grew tired of them. He was charming and I really liked him, and my friend was clearly smitten, so I hoped for my friend that I was wrong about him and his motivations (but I wasn't.)

Then I witnessed another young lady who was clearly intentionally doing it. Never working, living with each boyfriend until he kicked her out, and then she would make excuses about how mean he was and urgently find another guy who would let her move in. She had no interest in marriage or having kids. Rinse and repeat. Each relationship seemed to last a little less than 2 years.

It has become socially acceptable to "live together" in many Western cultures, so this philosophy is gaining traction and people can talk openly about doing it. If you don't have children or elderly or disabled relatives to care for, exactly how much time does it take each day to take care of the basic tasks for a household of 2 adults? Not much. I mean many people manage to do it while working full time. So a couple hours a day, tops, even if you are cooking from scratch? I cook from scratch: it's pretty quick and easy if you are skilled. And don't kid yourself: many of the modern SAHG's are ordering ubereats regularly.

100% this. I have seen sooooo many hobosexual men in my time, it's actually WAY more common than people realize.

Ugh, the hobosexuals. Yep. I had a couple of those in my early twenties and then spent a ton of time trying to avoid them. Then when I started teaching university, I saw sooooooooo many great, intelligent young women get serious boyfriends who were just… lazy unmotivated gamers looking for a live-in maid to have sex with and pay the majority of the bills and rent. It was so depressing.

I was in graduate school with a lovely girl who had a hobosexual bf.  He was a good-for-nothing mountain biker dude.   I don't recall him ever having a job.  We couldn't believe she wanted to marry him.  She did and around the same time he got a cockameme idea for a web site. It may have been coupons or something. He managed to get something ginned up and online.  A couple years later it was sold for tens of millions at the height of the dot-com frenzy.  And he went back to mountain biking and lounging on the sofa all day.  They are still together.  She worked as a professor and writer for a couple decades, then they bought a large winery in Santa Barbara and "retired".

Wow. She won the hobosexual lottery. The odds are about the same as for the regular one. My hobosexual early grad school boyfriend sure did not manage to do the same.

[Zamboni]

I was in graduate school with a lovely girl who had a hobosexual bf.  He was a good-for-nothing mountain biker dude.   I don't recall him ever having a job.  We couldn't believe she wanted to marry him.  She did and around the same time he got a cockameme idea for a web site. It may have been coupons or something. He managed to get something ginned up and online.  A couple years later it was sold for tens of millions at the height of the dot-com frenzy.  And he went back to mountain biking and lounging on the sofa all day.  They are still together.  She worked as a professor and writer for a couple decades, then they bought a large winery in Santa Barbara and "retired".

The fact they are still together means that he wasn't a true hobosexual, he's an entrepreneur who FIREd. Hobosexuals would not go to all the effort to start their own website for commercial purposes and actually get it up and running. They certainly don't figure out how to generate large income.

Hobosexuals might try to be an influencer on an existing platform, but it never works out. They don't make their own platform, they never get enough content posted to gain any real following, and they certainly aren't going to work on it more than about once a week. I suspect the main occupations for hobosexuals are the aforementioned novelist/screenwrite/playwrite, "in a rough patch," "just want us to be together," "taking a class," "travel vlogger who travels only when someone else is paying and doesn't ever actually edit & post the video," "I'm taking steps towards my future awesome career, get off my back, why are you being so pushy?"

Some might just straight up say "I'm still trying to figure out what I want to be when I grow up." I've seen hobosexuals do this while they make plans to register for just a little more training in a new career they've never tried but it seems easy. They might even buy a book about it or "look into" what they'd need to do or register for a class, but even if they do ever get a job, the job never lasts the probationary 90 days, then it's career change time yet again.

[Dee18]

When I read the article my brain immediately began thinking about how those young women are probably not starting 401(k) accounts or Roth accounts, or getting Social Security credits.  Working for one's own income in the early years has big payoffs later. 

[Metalcat]

I was in graduate school with a lovely girl who had a hobosexual bf.  He was a good-for-nothing mountain biker dude.   I don't recall him ever having a job.  We couldn't believe she wanted to marry him.  She did and around the same time he got a cockameme idea for a web site. It may have been coupons or something. He managed to get something ginned up and online.  A couple years later it was sold for tens of millions at the height of the dot-com frenzy.  And he went back to mountain biking and lounging on the sofa all day.  They are still together.  She worked as a professor and writer for a couple decades, then they bought a large winery in Santa Barbara and "retired".

The fact they are still together means that he wasn't a true hobosexual, he's an entrepreneur who FIREd. Hobosexuals would not go to all the effort to start their own website for commercial purposes and actually get it up and running. They certainly don't figure out how to generate large income.

Hobosexuals might try to be an influencer on an existing platform, but it never works out. They don't make their own platform, they never get enough content posted to gain any real following, and they certainly aren't going to work on it more than about once a week. I suspect the main occupations for hobosexuals are the aforementioned novelist/screenwrite/playwrite, "in a rough patch," "just want us to be together," "taking a class," "travel vlogger who travels only when someone else is paying and doesn't ever actually edit & post the video," "I'm taking steps towards my future awesome career, get off my back, why are you being so pushy?"

Some might just straight up say "I'm still trying to figure out what I want to be when I grow up." I've seen hobosexuals do this while they make plans to register for just a little more training in a new career they've never tried but it seems easy. They might even buy a book about it or "look into" what they'd need to do or register for a class, but even if they do ever get a job, the job never lasts the probationary 90 days, then it's career change time yet again.

This is so accurate it hurts. There's always a plausible sounding effort/explanation but it just never goes anywhere.

[fredbear]

...

Some might just straight up say "I'm still trying to figure out what I want to be when I grow up." I've seen hobosexuals do this while they make plans to register for just a little more training in a new career they've never tried but it seems easy. They might even buy a book about it or "look into" what they'd need to do or register for a class, but even if they do ever get a job, the job never lasts the probationary 90 days, then it's career change time yet again.

This is so accurate it hurts. There's always a plausible sounding effort/explanation but it just never goes anywhere.

What you see depends on where you stand.  I was never a professor, never liked courtsports, don't ski or raft much any more, so have been spared professional students with lofty spirituality, tennis pros and pool boys, ski and raft bums.  But I have seen a lot of female backpacks, riding on someone's shoulders, carried through life while (discretely, of course) looking for the next, more sturdy and attractive set of shoulders on which to clamber.  Well-managed transitions do not even involve feet touching ground.  The career of choice - toward which they are earnestly gliding though never quite achieving - is "life coach."  Given their own suspended and supported life, and their effect on the lives around them, the irony is perfect.

[TheGrimSqueaker]

...

Some might just straight up say "I'm still trying to figure out what I want to be when I grow up." I've seen hobosexuals do this while they make plans to register for just a little more training in a new career they've never tried but it seems easy. They might even buy a book about it or "look into" what they'd need to do or register for a class, but even if they do ever get a job, the job never lasts the probationary 90 days, then it's career change time yet again.

This is so accurate it hurts. There's always a plausible sounding effort/explanation but it just never goes anywhere.

What you see depends on where you stand.  I was never a professor, never liked courtsports, don't ski or raft much any more, so have been spared professional students with lofty spirituality, tennis pros and pool boys, ski and raft bums.  But I have seen a lot of female backpacks, riding on someone's shoulders, carried through life while (discretely, of course) looking for the next, more sturdy and attractive set of shoulders on which to clamber.  Well-managed transitions do not even involve feet touching ground.  The career of choice - toward which they are earnestly gliding though never quite achieving - is "life coach."  Given their own suspended and supported life, and their effect on the lives around them, the irony is perfect.

"Influencers" and "tradwives" are similarly situated, possibly because high-maintenance parasitic behavior is still more socially acceptable in females than it is in males.

[halfling]

Some people just want high-maintenance "tradwife" women and are willing to work for them. I don't think it's parasitic if both parties are happy.

Mr Halfling jokes about wanting to be a stay at home boyfriend since I make twice what he does. And I say, welp, when we hit FIRE we can both SAH as much as we want!

[TheGrimSqueaker]

Some people just want high-maintenance "tradwife" women and are willing to work for them. I don't think it's parasitic if both parties are happy.

If it's at the choice level, sure. Trouble is, sometimes it isn't at the choice level because it's at the identity level.

A homemaker/breadwinner dyad can work, especially if there are kids, and be optimal for some kinds of family. It can be a choice made by two individuals because it meets their needs and wants at the time (or even permanently). However when there are identity issues associated with *being* a particular role, it can become ossifying over time. It's because the behavior is no longer a choice, it's what that person believes he or she *is*.

I know a man who, in his twenties, fell in love with a high-maintenance, status-oriented princess. He liked the status and the ego trip it gave him to be a he-man breadwinner. Later, when he wanted to slow down, she wouldn't slow down her spending and consumption. Nor would she ever work outside the home, except on very rare temporary occasions, when the kids were in school or grown. He ended up working a very difficult job much longer than he needed to. He came to resent the very traits that had attracted him to her in the first place, and spent the last decades of his life crying victim and feeling sorry for himself.

[aloevera1]

Whatever makes them happy...?

When I saw this trend (albeit I saw it with married couples), I thought it was just a rebranding of the SAHM idea. Let's glorify the joyful existence of homemakers and such. Let's make pretty content with women wearing flowy dresses and kneading sourdough while their husband is working somewhere... I don't see any issues with that. I wish I could knead sourdough instead of meeting deadlines at work. But oh well, this is my life path. I wanted to be independent, have a career and all that fun stuff.

I do see an issue with deadbeats taking advantage of another person, regardless of the gender.

[Tasse]

I know a man who, in his twenties, fell in love with a high-maintenance, status-oriented princess. He liked the status and the ego trip it gave him to be a he-man breadwinner. Later, when he wanted to slow down, she wouldn't slow down her spending and consumption. Nor would she ever work outside the home, except on very rare temporary occasions, when the kids were in school or grown. He ended up working a very difficult job much longer than he needed to. He came to resent the very traits that had attracted him to her in the first place, and spent the last decades of his life crying victim and feeling sorry for himself.

I pray that you have not predicted the future of a 20-something loved one.

[eyesonthehorizon]

Some people just want high-maintenance "tradwife" women and are willing to work for them. I don't think it's parasitic if both parties are happy.

If it's at the choice level, sure. Trouble is, sometimes it isn't at the choice level because it's at the identity level.

A homemaker/breadwinner dyad can work, especially if there are kids, and be optimal for some kinds of family. It can be a choice made by two individuals because it meets their needs and wants at the time (or even permanently). However when there are identity issues associated with *being* a particular role, it can become ossifying over time. It's because the behavior is no longer a choice, it's what that person believes he or she *is*.

I know a man who, in his twenties, fell in love with a high-maintenance, status-oriented princess. He liked the status and the ego trip it gave him to be a he-man breadwinner. Later, when he wanted to slow down, she wouldn't slow down her spending and consumption. Nor would she ever work outside the home, except on very rare temporary occasions, when the kids were in school or grown. He ended up working a very difficult job much longer than he needed to. He came to resent the very traits that had attracted him to her in the first place, and spent the last decades of his life crying victim and feeling sorry for himself.

I recognize it isn't at all the point of this anecdote but all my life I have heard a stereotype that women leave men because they imagine that the men will change, & men leave women because they imagine the women won't change.

This is a highly stereotypical social arrangement, a woman offering status in trade for a man offering money, but the expectations are the inverse of the former stereotype - she anticipated they would carry on in the lifestyle they had essentially agreed on decades prior, whereas his priorities changed & he didn't want to bankroll it anymore.

I don't put a lot of weight on these stereotypes, but the way they clash here is vaguely interesting.

[TheGrimSqueaker]

The difference, I think, between committing to the stay-at-home lifestyle as a boyfriend or girlfriend instead of as a spouse, would be the one-sided commitment.

If the assets such as the house, the car, and everything else are in the breadwinner's name only, when the relationship splits up the homemaker is screwed financially. There are protections in place if a marriage splits up. An unmarried person who takes on the risks of a homemaker/breadwinner situation is working without a net.

[simonsez]

Sacks said that in that way it reminded her of the “FIRE” (Financial Independence, Retire Early) movement: “They’re like, ‘We quit our jobs. We live in a van,’ whatever, but they’re making money being ‘FIRE’ bloggers.”

And, the FIRE comments I found kind of silly and absurd.

Haha, so the FIRE movement is mainly/only for FIRE bloggers?

Why is it the only stuff that seems to get published is quotes from people who simply don't have a great grasp of what they're talking about?

[partgypsy]

If the bf is not willing to marry her she is smart to have her own income in case he gets tired of her or she of him.

It's just as possible that she is not willing to marry him.

Some folks (both women and men) completely embrace the "SAHG" mentality. And what I mean is many of the folks interested in this lifestyle seek to completely avoid working either in-the-home or for employers. For the near-term, they don't want to take care of children and they might not even do housework. The core of their behavior is desire to avoid any formal long term commitment but still live & sleep with someone else who pays all the bills. For folks who float from partner to partner doing this, the hilariously descriptive term I've seen applied to it is "hobosexual."

Someone I know well had a hobosexual move in with her a few years after her divorce. He was happy to bring his teenage son and live in her house as her boyfriend, but there were all kinds of reasons why he wasn't ever trying to find a job. His excuse was that he was busy "taking care of her yard," but she only had a 0.25 acre yard, so not exactly full-time work. As far as I could see he just floated from lady to lady doing this as long as he could in each place until either they kicked him out or he grew tired of them. He was charming and I really liked him, and my friend was clearly smitten, so I hoped for my friend that I was wrong about him and his motivations (but I wasn't.)

Then I witnessed another young lady who was clearly intentionally doing it. Never working, living with each boyfriend until he kicked her out, and then she would make excuses about how mean he was and urgently find another guy who would let her move in. She had no interest in marriage or having kids. Rinse and repeat. Each relationship seemed to last a little less than 2 years.

It has become socially acceptable to "live together" in many Western cultures, so this philosophy is gaining traction and people can talk openly about doing it. If you don't have children or elderly or disabled relatives to care for, exactly how much time does it take each day to take care of the basic tasks for a household of 2 adults? Not much. I mean many people manage to do it while working full time. So a couple hours a day, tops, even if you are cooking from scratch? I cook from scratch: it's pretty quick and easy if you are skilled. And don't kid yourself: many of the modern SAHG's are ordering ubereats regularly.

100% this. I have seen sooooo many hobosexual men in my time, it's actually WAY more common than people realize.

Ugh, the hobosexuals. Yep. I had a couple of those in my early twenties and then spent a ton of time trying to avoid them. Then when I started teaching university, I saw sooooooooo many great, intelligent young women get serious boyfriends who were just… lazy unmotivated gamers looking for a live-in maid to have sex with and pay the majority of the bills and rent. It was so depressing.

Couples research suggests that people of similar emotional maturity/health tend to attract each other. So you tend to end up with someone who complements your level of emotional maturity/immaturity/health. It makes you wonder what these intelligent young women learned early in their lives or what emotional damage they sustained to make them believe that this kind of behavior was all they could expect or deserve from a boyfriend/partner/spouse.

sometimes it's a bait and switch. An older coworker's 2nd husband, who was a charismatic, seemingly with-it person, leave during the day for his job. Consulting or some such. At some point she realized he - was not working. More and more of her money was gone and none was coming in. (He would go out golfing and drinking). here was a period of time he promised he was looking for a job, etc etc, but nothing changed.

There are some guys who are just really good looking and we used to call them boy toys. Many years ago I was with my boyfriend and he chatted with this one guy and I was like whoa, who was that? (honestly he looked like a model). He supposedly was hired by this successful woman to say, renovate her bathroom. The bathroom never seemed to get finished and he was living with her.   

[partgypsy]

the stay at home girlfriend yup seems like a weird influencer fad, that cannot be self sustaining. Most women are too smart to be in a situation long term that will have their career prospects stagnant, and most men are not going to be willing to indefinitely support a girlfriend just sitting around. And bragging that you are an adult but you are not acting like an adult and having someone else support you, or bragging that you are supporting a grown ass adult who doesn't respect you enough to carry their own weight, is an odd - flex. That said, people should do what works for them in their own relationship. Just don't need to hear about it.