Author Topic: New $30K Cars Increasingly Out of Reach for Many Americans  (Read 7478 times)

venkol

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New $30K Cars Increasingly Out of Reach for Many Americans
« on: February 27, 2013, 08:33:28 AM »
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/cars-increasingly-reach-many-americans-145957880.html

I think the article of the title should be, WHY THE F* is the AVERAGE price of even NEW cars close to $30,000!!  With plenty of good, affordable cars availble well south o the $20K mark, are new car buyers still blowing this much money on a new car?  Even if you completely ignore the user car market, the average american is a complete idiot if he spends $30K on new car loan!

I thought I was crazy for taking out a $18K 0% loan on my Sedan in my spendy days.


bo_knows

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Re: New $30K Cars Increasingly Out of Reach for Many Americans
« Reply #1 on: February 27, 2013, 09:15:57 AM »
I would pay $30k for a car, only if it was fully electric and had a 300-400mi range.  I don't think this exists quite yet.

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Re: New $30K Cars Increasingly Out of Reach for Many Americans
« Reply #2 on: February 27, 2013, 10:08:29 AM »
Looking into getting a used subaru outback is close to $20k from a subaru dealer :( I could see how cars are hitting the $30k mark... I just dont have to agree with it being that expensive, so I'm only looking right now, and not really buying :S hoping I find a great deal on one, or another car comes along cheaper that I also like lol. Sure I have heart set on subaru, but there's no reason why I have to hold out for them if I find something else I like that is affordable.

Another Reader

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Re: New $30K Cars Increasingly Out of Reach for Many Americans
« Reply #3 on: February 27, 2013, 10:26:43 AM »
I could well afford a $30,000 car, but I recently purchased a new Toyota Corolla for half that.  It gets around 29 MPG on California gasoline and has decent resale value.  Why would I pay MORE for reliable transportation?  Back in the 1960's when gas was cheap and there were a lot of open, uncluttered roads, driving was a "hobby" for a lot of folks.  That's not really possible here today.

ExBex

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Re: New $30K Cars Increasingly Out of Reach for Many Americans
« Reply #4 on: February 27, 2013, 10:30:20 AM »
I think the article of the title should be, WHY THE F* is the AVERAGE price of even NEW cars close to $30,000!! 

Ha!  Beautiful.  I have a very un-Mustachian 3 cars for one driver, and all together they still don't add up near $30k! 

venkol

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Re: New $30K Cars Increasingly Out of Reach for Many Americans
« Reply #5 on: February 27, 2013, 10:48:15 AM »
Looking into getting a used subaru outback is close to $20k from a subaru dealer :( I could see how cars are hitting the $30k mark... I just dont have to agree with it being that expensive, so I'm only looking right now, and not really buying :S hoping I find a great deal on one, or another car comes along cheaper that I also like lol. Sure I have heart set on subaru, but there's no reason why I have to hold out for them if I find something else I like that is affordable.

I just don't get it, what does a Suburau do for you that a Honda Fit or a Nissan Versa do?  I've driven what seems like a billion different rental cars for work, and at the end of the day, they all get me to and back from work, all have ample storage unless your moving (which at most is once a year for people).  I just want to know what the difference is.

zhelud

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Re: New $30K Cars Increasingly Out of Reach for Many Americans
« Reply #6 on: February 27, 2013, 11:28:43 AM »
A friend of mine who is an auto industry researcher told me that only 20% of the population ever buys a new car. Ever.

So maybe the general public is more mustachian than we give them credit for.

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Re: New $30K Cars Increasingly Out of Reach for Many Americans
« Reply #7 on: February 27, 2013, 11:34:44 AM »
@venkol, that's the reason I haven't bought the subaru yet lol, I know that other cars work well enough, I mainly want the high 8"+ ground clearance and AWD. I know other cars have that like the nissan juke but ground clearance isnt as high :S And I do want one with high clearance, and even 8" is a bit low for me, but I don't want a truck either...

JanMN

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Re: New $30K Cars Increasingly Out of Reach for Many Americans
« Reply #8 on: February 27, 2013, 11:44:08 AM »
@venkol, that's the reason I haven't bought the subaru yet lol, I know that other cars work well enough, I mainly want the high 8"+ ground clearance and AWD. I know other cars have that like the nissan juke but ground clearance isnt as high :S And I do want one with high clearance, and even 8" is a bit low for me, but I don't want a truck either...

Genuinely curious, eyem... why do you want high clearance and AWD in KC?  I could see it possibly in a heavy snow/altitude state - though I live in heavy snow/gravel roads, and the manual nissan versa with 4 snow tires is the bomb.   

venkol

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Re: New $30K Cars Increasingly Out of Reach for Many Americans
« Reply #9 on: February 27, 2013, 11:56:04 AM »
A friend of mine who is an auto industry researcher told me that only 20% of the population ever buys a new car. Ever.

So maybe the general public is more mustachian than we give them credit for.

I guess that would depend on how many of the 80% lease.

John74

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Re: New $30K Cars Increasingly Out of Reach for Many Americans
« Reply #10 on: February 27, 2013, 12:01:53 PM »
It cracks me up to think that people with net worths an order of magnitude below mine, think they deserve to buy cars that are more expensive than mine. Fools.

Jamesqf

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Re: New $30K Cars Increasingly Out of Reach for Many Americans
« Reply #11 on: February 27, 2013, 12:24:45 PM »
I could well afford a $30,000 car, but I recently purchased...

I could well afford a $30K car, too, but I'm sticking with the Insight I bought almost 10 years ago, used, for $8500.  Which was more than twice what I'd ever paid for a car before.  And which is a big part of the reason I could afford to buy $30K cars: I can afford them because I don't buy them.

Well, unless the price of a used Tesla Roadster drops into the $30K range :-)

the fixer

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Re: New $30K Cars Increasingly Out of Reach for Many Americans
« Reply #12 on: February 27, 2013, 01:19:17 PM »
@venkol, that's the reason I haven't bought the subaru yet lol, I know that other cars work well enough, I mainly want the high 8"+ ground clearance and AWD. I know other cars have that like the nissan juke but ground clearance isnt as high :S And I do want one with high clearance, and even 8" is a bit low for me, but I don't want a truck either...
I haven't priced it out, but you could buy a used Suzuki SX4 and put a lift kit on it. http://www.rocky-road.com/sx4sus.html

paddedhat

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Re: New $30K Cars Increasingly Out of Reach for Many Americans
« Reply #13 on: February 27, 2013, 03:34:29 PM »
I could well afford a $30,000 car, but I recently purchased a new Toyota Corolla for half that.  It gets around 29 MPG on California gasoline and has decent resale value.  Why would I pay MORE for reliable transportation?  Back in the 1960's when gas was cheap and there were a lot of open, uncluttered roads, driving was a "hobby" for a lot of folks.  That's not really possible here today.
  I have a best friend who is an absolute world class mechanic, who works on everything from every brand of everyday vehicle to race cars, exotic cars,  mining trucks and motorhomes. He is also a grade A+ 'stashian who spent the last decade driving the cheapest old Hondas he could find, as in $1500, 20 years and 200K miles when he gets them. He recently about caused a collective fainting spell among friends and family when he bought a brand new 2013 Corolla. He did it based on observing what's going wrong with the stuff that show up in his shop after the warranty expires.  Cars with electric steering, direct injection, CVT transmissions and other "latest and greatest" hardware are starting to need lots of expensive repairs. He choose the Corolla for the same reason the critics avoid it. It's solid old school, no bullshit transportation. He bought a new one simply because it's nearly impossible to get something worth owning in a lightly used one with spending 80% of the cost of a new one. He anticipates about 15yrs and 300K + miles of service from this car, and given his history, I'm sure it will go at least that long.

dragoncar

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Re: New $30K Cars Increasingly Out of Reach for Many Americans
« Reply #14 on: February 27, 2013, 03:58:32 PM »
paddedhat reminded me of a very interesting paper called "The market for lemons" (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Market_for_Lemons).  Worth a read if you are interested in economics and/or used cars.

I've personally never bought a used car from a random third party.  My first car was purchased from a trusted family member.  My second car was new, and I plan to drive it into the ground.  Not sure what my next car will be, and I may never purchase again -- especially once the nascent carshare market matures.

mm31

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Re: New $30K Cars Increasingly Out of Reach for Many Americans
« Reply #15 on: February 27, 2013, 04:31:01 PM »
I'm one of the 20% that bought a new car 5 years ago (Yaris). I know people here say to always prefer buying used, but for me, this didn't make sense for 2 reasons:

  • all the 4 previous used cars I've owned have needed repair, usually in the $400-$600 range per visit. I was tired of spending that much money on repairs
  • the difference in price between a good used car (low mileage, recent) and the new Yaris I was looking at  was not substantial, when I factored in the inevitable cost of repairs.


I decided to go for peace of mind and put 60% down on the new Yaris. Apart from oil changes, I haven't had major repair in the 5 years I've owned it

Another Reader

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Re: New $30K Cars Increasingly Out of Reach for Many Americans
« Reply #16 on: February 27, 2013, 06:16:53 PM »
Paddedhat:

You hit the nail on the head.  There are millions of that Corolla on the road all over the world.  The basic design has not changed for years.  Toyota squeezed every drop out of the R&D money spent on that car.  It will be cheaper to maintain and cheaper to repair, while maintaining a solid reliability rating and therefore a strong resale value.  A couple of the managers at the Toyota dealer have them as their daily drivers.  I considered the Prius, which two of my engineer neighbors bought, and decided it was too expensive and there were too many unknowns.  Maybe it's because I'm old school as well, but I'll take the tried and true engineering over the new stuff any day.

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Re: New $30K Cars Increasingly Out of Reach for Many Americans
« Reply #17 on: February 27, 2013, 09:00:25 PM »
hm I looked into the suzuki sx4 before, didn't know there was a lift kit for it >.> Probably could do same with a used nissan juke then? The reason I need ground clearance and awd in KC is because I drive off road to get to a farm in Kansas (not off roading for fun, they just don't have paved roads). So I prefer to not have the gravel damage the bottom, I thought about putting a skid plate under there too.

venkol

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Re: New $30K Cars Increasingly Out of Reach for Many Americans
« Reply #18 on: February 28, 2013, 07:38:29 AM »
I could well afford a $30,000 car, but I recently purchased a new Toyota Corolla for half that.  It gets around 29 MPG on California gasoline and has decent resale value.  Why would I pay MORE for reliable transportation?  Back in the 1960's when gas was cheap and there were a lot of open, uncluttered roads, driving was a "hobby" for a lot of folks.  That's not really possible here today.
  I have a best friend who is an absolute world class mechanic, who works on everything from every brand of everyday vehicle to race cars, exotic cars,  mining trucks and motorhomes. He is also a grade A+ 'stashian who spent the last decade driving the cheapest old Hondas he could find, as in $1500, 20 years and 200K miles when he gets them. He recently about caused a collective fainting spell among friends and family when he bought a brand new 2013 Corolla. He did it based on observing what's going wrong with the stuff that show up in his shop after the warranty expires.  Cars with electric steering, direct injection, CVT transmissions and other "latest and greatest" hardware are starting to need lots of expensive repairs. He choose the Corolla for the same reason the critics avoid it. It's solid old school, no bullshit transportation. He bought a new one simply because it's nearly impossible to get something worth owning in a lightly used one with spending 80% of the cost of a new one. He anticipates about 15yrs and 300K + miles of service from this car, and given his history, I'm sure it will go at least that long.

It made me sad when Chevy ended the Prizm line (Corolla rebadge) since my dad worked for GM and had access to special Drive and By discounts, a new Chevy was dirt cheap!

chucklesmcgee

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Re: New $30K Cars Increasingly Out of Reach for Many Americans
« Reply #19 on: February 28, 2013, 11:12:41 AM »
A friend of mine who is an auto industry researcher told me that only 20% of the population ever buys a new car. Ever.

So maybe the general public is more mustachian than we give them credit for.

That's a big point that I think the article overlooks. Just because the average price paid for a new car is increasing doesn't mean that new cars cars are getting more expensive. A lot of people may be realizing that they can get a much nicer used car than a new low-end car, especially since there haven't been very many must-have features introduced on new cars in the last 10 years.

capital

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Re: New $30K Cars Increasingly Out of Reach for Many Americans
« Reply #20 on: February 28, 2013, 12:52:09 PM »
I could well afford a $30,000 car, but I recently purchased a new Toyota Corolla for half that.  It gets around 29 MPG on California gasoline and has decent resale value.  Why would I pay MORE for reliable transportation?  Back in the 1960's when gas was cheap and there were a lot of open, uncluttered roads, driving was a "hobby" for a lot of folks.  That's not really possible here today.
  I have a best friend who is an absolute world class mechanic, who works on everything from every brand of everyday vehicle to race cars, exotic cars,  mining trucks and motorhomes. He is also a grade A+ 'stashian who spent the last decade driving the cheapest old Hondas he could find, as in $1500, 20 years and 200K miles when he gets them. He recently about caused a collective fainting spell among friends and family when he bought a brand new 2013 Corolla. He did it based on observing what's going wrong with the stuff that show up in his shop after the warranty expires.  Cars with electric steering, direct injection, CVT transmissions and other "latest and greatest" hardware are starting to need lots of expensive repairs. He choose the Corolla for the same reason the critics avoid it. It's solid old school, no bullshit transportation. He bought a new one simply because it's nearly impossible to get something worth owning in a lightly used one with spending 80% of the cost of a new one. He anticipates about 15yrs and 300K + miles of service from this car, and given his history, I'm sure it will go at least that long.

It made me sad when Chevy ended the Prizm line (Corolla rebadge) since my dad worked for GM and had access to special Drive and By discounts, a new Chevy was dirt cheap!
The Prizm was replaced by the Pontiac Vibe, which was even better because it was a wagon and was made until 2010. I owned one and probably came out with a TCO of right around zero including gas and insurance, thanks to a reimbursed cross-country relocation and the shift in the used car market while I owned it.

Does mere gravel really damage the bottom of a car? I've seen plenty of standard road-going cars on gravel roads. I did recently see a Hyundai Accent drop its exhaust driving down a road with something like a foot of packed snow on it with two wheel-ruts worn down to the pavement, but that's a pretty uncommon situation. I took my driver's test on roads with a foot or so of snow on them in a Honda Civic.

azanon

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Re: New $30K Cars Increasingly Out of Reach for Many Americans
« Reply #21 on: March 01, 2013, 08:45:01 AM »
I just don't get it, what does a Suburau do for you that a Honda Fit or a Nissan Versa do?  I've driven what seems like a billion different rental cars for work, and at the end of the day, they all get me to and back from work, all have ample storage unless your moving (which at most is once a year for people).  I just want to know what the difference is.

I assume you mean besides the symmetric 4-wheel drive, usually at the top on reliability in Consumer reports, and the industry leading safety marks that Subaru gets.  Now sure, I've read MMM's article on the cost advantages of extreme optimism, and the high cost of safety, but there is still a reasonable counter-argument.  In my age group, dying in an auto accident is easily the most likely way to go.  I'd be willing to toss that aside as fear mongering if I hadn't already been involved in 3 auto wreaks so far (none of which were my fault).

Lastly, why pick on a guy looking for a used Subaru outback?  That's a relatively sensible car even new, and he's looking for used.  Surely someone that wants to buy a Mercedes will post in due time.

Rural

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Re: New $30K Cars Increasingly Out of Reach for Many Americans
« Reply #22 on: March 01, 2013, 05:48:54 PM »
Looking into getting a used subaru outback is close to $20k from a subaru dealer :( I could see how cars are hitting the $30k mark... I just dont have to agree with it being that expensive, so I'm only looking right now, and not really buying :S hoping I find a great deal on one, or another car comes along cheaper that I also like lol. Sure I have heart set on subaru, but there's no reason why I have to hold out for them if I find something else I like that is affordable.

I just don't get it, what does a Suburau do for you that a Honda Fit or a Nissan Versa do?  I've driven what seems like a billion different rental cars for work, and at the end of the day, they all get me to and back from work, all have ample storage unless your moving (which at most is once a year for people).  I just want to know what the difference is.

Depends on the terrain you cover. I'll drive my current $1200 junker until my driveway (quarter mile, chert, 300 feet of elevation change over its length) rips something too expensive out from under it, but then I'm going for clearance.

I don't absolutely need 4WD, but the alternative is hiking up the mountain through the woods in the mud and the wet every time we get a big rain. It can be done, but that's just no fun in professional garb.

When the junker dies, I'll compare the cost of something like a Subaru to the cost of paving the drive, but it's an awful lot of drive.