Author Topic: Neighbor Bought a new Harley  (Read 26723 times)

greaper007

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Re: Neighbor Bought a new Harley
« Reply #50 on: April 18, 2014, 09:06:09 AM »

Takes my bike about 10-15 minutes of warmup before it'll play nicely in traffic.  Not terribly safe to ride before then as it surges under power and likes to die at stop signs/lights.  Probably the same deal with this guy unless it's a brand new FI bike.  Air/oil cooled and carbureted engines, which most motorcycles are, don't work as nicely as automobiles with cooling systems and fuel injection.

Also, at 9am the day's half over?  Why aren't you already busy doing things where you don't car?  ;-)  ;-)

I flew air cooled, carburetor fueled engines for years.   I never had a problem with them after they were started  and brought up to temperature with a short taxi.    Sounds like you need some adjustments or a rebuild.

Boston Blackie

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Re: Neighbor Bought a new Harley
« Reply #51 on: April 18, 2014, 10:55:34 AM »
Harley's are cool. No doubt about it in my mind, but I'm not allowed to have one. When I was looking for a big touring cruiser, one with comfort and amenities, my wife and I test rode an Ultra Classic. When we got back to the dealer, she had one word for me....."Nope!"

The noise was a bit too much for her refined ears, and the vibration at a full stop gave her a tingly feeling all over, only partially in a good way.

She told me to keep looking, which turned out to be a good thing. I finally disovered the Yamaha Royal Star Venture, a 1300cc, 4 cyl., touring cruiser with all the same amenities minus the wife's disapproval. Japanese bikes also depreciate faster than Harley's so I was able to find a 3 year old Venture with 1400 miles for roughly half the cost of new. I wrote a check on the spot and rode it away.

For the record, I don't wear leathers, have tattoo's or a pot belly and I don't refer to my wife of 37 years as 'the old lady', even though she is a lady and we're not as young as we once were.

eil

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Re: Neighbor Bought a new Harley
« Reply #52 on: April 18, 2014, 02:12:15 PM »

Takes my bike about 10-15 minutes of warmup before it'll play nicely in traffic.  Not terribly safe to ride before then as it surges under power and likes to die at stop signs/lights.  Probably the same deal with this guy unless it's a brand new FI bike.  Air/oil cooled and carbureted engines, which most motorcycles are, don't work as nicely as automobiles with cooling systems and fuel injection.

Also, at 9am the day's half over?  Why aren't you already busy doing things where you don't car?  ;-)  ;-)

I flew air cooled, carburetor fueled engines for years.   I never had a problem with them after they were started  and brought up to temperature with a short taxi.    Sounds like you need some adjustments or a rebuild.

+1 on this. No motorcycle engine takes 10-15 minutes to warm up, even if it's below freezing out. In fact, on some (most?) bikes, letting an air-cooled engine run for that long without air blowing across it will cause it to overheat.

Given the symptoms, you have a plugged pilot jet in the carburetors because the bike was put into storage with gas in the carbs, which then dried up and plugged the jets. The only way to fix this is to tear open the carbs and clean them out properly. I would say take them somewhere to do this, but that would be un-mustachian. If you tell me the year/make/model of your bike, I can point you to some resources on how to do it yourself.
« Last Edit: April 18, 2014, 02:15:24 PM by eil »

Tempe

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Re: Neighbor Bought a new Harley
« Reply #53 on: April 18, 2014, 10:31:52 PM »
I live in an apartment complex and there is an asshole with a loud motorcycle. Sometimes he sits for 10 minutes while he fiddles with his gloves, texts, or other things while I'm trying to sleep. One of the days I'm not so exhausted I'm going to walk out in my pj's and ask him wtf? at 9 am he doesn't need to be doing that. I wouldn't care as much if he was driving off right away, but it sits and vibrates the windows.

Takes my bike about 10-15 minutes of warmup before it'll play nicely in traffic.  Not terribly safe to ride before then as it surges under power and likes to die at stop signs/lights.  Probably the same deal with this guy unless it's a brand new FI bike.  Air/oil cooled and carbureted engines, which most motorcycles are, don't work as nicely as automobiles with cooling systems and fuel injection.

Also, at 9am the day's half over?  Why aren't you already busy doing things where you don't car?  ;-)  ;-)
  I happen to wake up at 10 usually so my day is just starting :)
I am  happy doing things at home, but the noise is aggravating while sleeping or not.
« Last Edit: April 18, 2014, 10:35:13 PM by Tempe »

Purple Economist

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Re: Neighbor Bought a new Harley
« Reply #54 on: April 19, 2014, 11:16:44 AM »
I love legal mj in Colorado because you have to consume it in your home.     If I had to deal with people blowing bong rips in a restraunt I wouldn't support the legislation.

Would there be some requirement that you go to these restaurants?

I haven't been in a bar you can smoke cigarettes in, in over a decade.    That's sort of an arbitrary argument.    One's vice shouldn't invade another person's sanctity.   

You mean like the sanctity of a person's private business?

The restriction on cigarette smoking is ridiculous.

dragoncar

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Re: Neighbor Bought a new Harley
« Reply #55 on: April 19, 2014, 11:39:15 AM »
I love legal mj in Colorado because you have to consume it in your home.     If I had to deal with people blowing bong rips in a restraunt I wouldn't support the legislation.

Would there be some requirement that you go to these restaurants?

I haven't been in a bar you can smoke cigarettes in, in over a decade.    That's sort of an arbitrary argument.    One's vice shouldn't invade another person's sanctity.   

You mean like the sanctity of a person's private business?

The restriction on cigarette smoking is ridiculous.

It's not just a "private business" if it's open to the public and has a public business license. 

Purple Economist

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Re: Neighbor Bought a new Harley
« Reply #56 on: April 20, 2014, 12:47:44 PM »
I love legal mj in Colorado because you have to consume it in your home.     If I had to deal with people blowing bong rips in a restraunt I wouldn't support the legislation.

Would there be some requirement that you go to these restaurants?

I haven't been in a bar you can smoke cigarettes in, in over a decade.    That's sort of an arbitrary argument.    One's vice shouldn't invade another person's sanctity.   

You mean like the sanctity of a person's private business?

The restriction on cigarette smoking is ridiculous.

It's not just a "private business" if it's open to the public and has a public business license.

Now that is some quality statist thinking.

dragoncar

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Re: Neighbor Bought a new Harley
« Reply #57 on: April 20, 2014, 01:51:33 PM »
I love legal mj in Colorado because you have to consume it in your home.     If I had to deal with people blowing bong rips in a restraunt I wouldn't support the legislation.

Would there be some requirement that you go to these restaurants?

I haven't been in a bar you can smoke cigarettes in, in over a decade.    That's sort of an arbitrary argument.    One's vice shouldn't invade another person's sanctity.   

You mean like the sanctity of a person's private business?

The restriction on cigarette smoking is ridiculous.

It's not just a "private business" if it's open to the public and has a public business license.

Now that is some quality statist thinking.

Thanks, I'd rather have our democratic state control economic and social policy rather than, say, you.

greaper007

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Re: Neighbor Bought a new Harley
« Reply #58 on: April 20, 2014, 03:26:38 PM »
Lets use your logic.    Should I be allowed to store nuclear waste in my suburban backyard?    It's my property and that should be all that matters, right?

Purple Economist

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Re: Neighbor Bought a new Harley
« Reply #59 on: April 20, 2014, 05:27:14 PM »
Lets use your logic.    Should I be allowed to store nuclear waste in my suburban backyard?    It's my property and that should be all that matters, right?

That's not really the point here.  The point is the original poster said that people should be allowed to smoke marijuana on private property (in one's home), provided that it's not a business.  Private property is private property, in my opinion.

With your scenario, there are lots of solutions to the problem that don't involve government regulation.  Even so, there could be a role for the government to not allow nuclear waste storage as it is likely this would be a violation of the non-aggression principle.

On the equally ridiculous but opposite end of the spectrum, do you think the government should be able to regulate the flatulence of an individual?

greaper007

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Re: Neighbor Bought a new Harley
« Reply #60 on: April 20, 2014, 09:06:31 PM »
Now we're getting into Rand Paul territory.   If you want to have an establishment that's open to the public, you have to abide by some rules.    Fire codes have to be enforced, you have to abide by the ADA, and unless you live in some backwater hell hole, you can't smoke in public.    Cigarettes or MJ.    There's a good reason for that.    Other people's lungs shouldn't be harmed because you can't control your need to feed a vice.      The same goes for drinking to excess, keep that junk in your house.

If you don't like that.    Feel free to petition governmental organizations or close down.     I'm not really happy about paying taxes that go towards things black op slush funds, but I accept that it's part of the game.

What's next, are we going to have a discussion about the constitutionality of the 1964 Civil Rights legislation?

austin

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Re: Neighbor Bought a new Harley
« Reply #61 on: April 20, 2014, 11:06:45 PM »
I love legal mj in Colorado because you have to consume it in your home.     If I had to deal with people blowing bong rips in a restraunt I wouldn't support the legislation.

Would there be some requirement that you go to these restaurants?

I haven't been in a bar you can smoke cigarettes in, in over a decade.    That's sort of an arbitrary argument.    One's vice shouldn't invade another person's sanctity.   

You mean like the sanctity of a person's private business?

The restriction on cigarette smoking is ridiculous.

It's not just a "private business" if it's open to the public and has a public business license.

Now that is some quality statist thinking.

Do you believe a business owner should be able to refuse service based on the race of potential customers?

Jamesqf

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Re: Neighbor Bought a new Harley
« Reply #62 on: April 20, 2014, 11:51:04 PM »
Lets use your logic.    Should I be allowed to store nuclear waste in my suburban backyard?    It's my property and that should be all that matters, right?

Sure, as long as you can guarantee that the nuclear waste is going to stay on your property :-)

Same with those other things.  Smoke all you want, as long as the smoke stays in your lungs.  And if you like the sound of loud pipes, I'd suggest headphones and a noise generator linked to your tachometer.

Purple Economist

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Re: Neighbor Bought a new Harley
« Reply #63 on: April 21, 2014, 09:05:03 AM »
Now we're getting into Rand Paul territory.   If you want to have an establishment that's open to the public, you have to abide by some rules.    Fire codes have to be enforced, you have to abide by the ADA, and unless you live in some backwater hell hole, you can't smoke in public.    Cigarettes or MJ.    There's a good reason for that.    Other people's lungs shouldn't be harmed because you can't control your need to feed a vice.      The same goes for drinking to excess, keep that junk in your house.

If you don't like that.    Feel free to petition governmental organizations or close down.     I'm not really happy about paying taxes that go towards things black op slush funds, but I accept that it's part of the game.

What's next, are we going to have a discussion about the constitutionality of the 1964 Civil Rights legislation?

There's nothing wrong with Rand Paul territory.  I imagine your and my interpretations of the constitutionality of the 1964 Civil Rights legislation would differ.

I do petition governmental organizations and vote to change the current statutes.  If I owned a business, I would have to follow the law, as the government has the guns and a legal monopoly on violence.  That doesn't mean the laws and regulations are right or constitutional, regardless of what the Supreme Court says.



Do you believe a business owner should be able to refuse service based on the race of potential customers?

Yes.

GuitarStv

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Re: Neighbor Bought a new Harley
« Reply #64 on: April 21, 2014, 10:08:30 AM »
That doesn't mean the laws and regulations are right or constitutional, regardless of what the Supreme Court says.

Ah, so you're a constitutional scholar.  Where did you get your law degree?  What research have you published regarding your constitutional studies?

dragoncar

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Re: Neighbor Bought a new Harley
« Reply #65 on: April 21, 2014, 10:43:16 AM »
That doesn't mean the laws and regulations are right or constitutional, regardless of what the Supreme Court says.

Ah, so you're a constitutional scholar.  Where did you get your law degree?  What research have you published regarding your constitutional studies?

It's hilarious because the constitution explicitly vests power to determine constitutionality to the Supreme Court.  If they say it's constitutional, it is, based on a very clear reading of the constitution it self.

That doesn't mean you have to like the constitution as written, but it does mean the Supreme Court gets to decide constitutionality.

Purple Economist

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Re: Neighbor Bought a new Harley
« Reply #66 on: April 21, 2014, 11:03:27 AM »
That doesn't mean the laws and regulations are right or constitutional, regardless of what the Supreme Court says.

Ah, so you're a constitutional scholar.  Where did you get your law degree?  What research have you published regarding your constitutional studies?

It's hilarious because the constitution explicitly vests power to determine constitutionality to the Supreme Court.  If they say it's constitutional, it is, based on a very clear reading of the constitution it self.

That doesn't mean you have to like the constitution as written, but it does mean the Supreme Court gets to decide constitutionality.

From a political and legal standpoint, the Supreme Court gets to determine what is "constitutional."  That does not mean the Supreme Court is always correct in its interpretation.  There is typically a lot of disagreement on whether the Supreme Court makes a correct decision.  Seriously, the Supreme Court was responsible for the Dred Scott decision.

I don't need to have a law degree or publish research to come up with an opinion.  There are also plenty of legal scholars that agree with me.

I don't go around saying anyone who wants to have an opinion or thought on economic matters needs to have a PhD in economics or published research on economics.

dragoncar

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Re: Neighbor Bought a new Harley
« Reply #67 on: April 21, 2014, 11:10:35 AM »
That doesn't mean the laws and regulations are right or constitutional, regardless of what the Supreme Court says.

Ah, so you're a constitutional scholar.  Where did you get your law degree?  What research have you published regarding your constitutional studies?

It's hilarious because the constitution explicitly vests power to determine constitutionality to the Supreme Court.  If they say it's constitutional, it is, based on a very clear reading of the constitution it self.

That doesn't mean you have to like the constitution as written, but it does mean the Supreme Court gets to decide constitutionality.

From a political and legal standpoint, the Supreme Court gets to determine what is "constitutional."  That does not mean the Supreme Court is always correct in its interpretation.  There is typically a lot of disagreement on whether the Supreme Court makes a correct decision.  Seriously, the Supreme Court was responsible for the Dred Scott decision.

I don't need to have a law degree or publish research to come up with an opinion.  There are also plenty of legal scholars that agree with me.

I don't go around saying anyone who wants to have an opinion or thought on economic matters needs to have a PhD in economics or published research on economics.

Sure, I don't need to know anything about science to hold the opinion that the Earth is only 10,000 years old.  But of course from a scientific standpoint, that's wrong.  Since constitutionality is a "political and legal" term, that's the standpoint from which it should be discussed.

rocksinmyhead

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Re: Neighbor Bought a new Harley
« Reply #68 on: April 21, 2014, 11:42:05 AM »
so this thread has derailed considerably but... :)

I like motorcycles (though I don't know much about them, but my parents have some kind of Honda that they take on fun little trips around MN/WI) and I grew up next to train tracks so I actually tune out a lot of those kinds of obnoxious noises without even thinking about it. I still don't get the point of actively WANTING your vehicle to be that loud, but it doesn't annoy me, personally. I can totally see how it would be annoying as hell for most people, though...

oh and the 7- and 8-year car loans completely blow my fucking mind. what is this world coming to!?!? HOW can people lock themselves into that shit?! it stresses me out so much just thinking about it. ANYTHING could happen in 7 years!!!! you could lose your job... or worse, there could be a horrible recession and your industry could disappear completely, and you would have to work in food service for minimum wage! or you could get cancer! or suffer a traumatic brain injury and be unable to do your job! LITERALLY ANYTHING COULD HAPPEN and you're pretty much guaranteed to be underwater and unable to sell your toy because you're paying it off so damn slowly.

granted, I am a little on the negative Nancy side of things but I'd think even someone with an AVERAGE sense of thinking/worrying about the future would see instantly that if you have to finance something for 5+ years YOU CAN'T AFFORD IT. geez louise. I need to go drink some tea and calm down and stop being so stressed out about other peoples' lives :)

I live in an apartment complex and there is an asshole with a loud motorcycle. Sometimes he sits for 10 minutes while he fiddles with his gloves, texts, or other things while I'm trying to sleep. One of the days I'm not so exhausted I'm going to walk out in my pj's and ask him wtf? at 9 am he doesn't need to be doing that. I wouldn't care as much if he was driving off right away, but it sits and vibrates the windows.

Also, at 9am the day's half over?  Why aren't you already busy doing things where you don't car?  ;-)  ;-)

LOL, I was going to say that too, but then figured he/she had a weird work schedule or something :)

rocksinmyhead

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Re: Neighbor Bought a new Harley
« Reply #69 on: April 21, 2014, 11:51:16 AM »
Lets use your logic.    Should I be allowed to store nuclear waste in my suburban backyard?    It's my property and that should be all that matters, right?

Sure, as long as you can guarantee that the nuclear waste is going to stay on your property :-)

Same with those other things.  Smoke all you want, as long as the smoke stays in your lungs.  And if you like the sound of loud pipes, I'd suggest headphones and a noise generator linked to your tachometer.

LOL!! :)

warfreak2

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Re: Neighbor Bought a new Harley
« Reply #70 on: April 21, 2014, 12:44:45 PM »
Do you believe a business owner should be able to refuse service based on the race of potential customers?
Yes.
You already lost this debate 50 years ago. By the way, society generally doesn't even tolerate your ideas any more.

Yes, I know that you don't "have to" be racist to approve of the right in law to be racist. However, when you're in favour of a right which only benefits racists, you can't expect much benefit of the doubt.

Yes, I know that you don't "have to" think that the protections in the Civil Rights Act aren't beneficial for society, to argue that it's unconstitutional. However, the fact that it gets you worked up enough to act against it politically is kind of a giveaway. By the way, there are still many people alive today who remember the consequences of not having those protections.

Jamesqf

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Re: Neighbor Bought a new Harley
« Reply #71 on: April 21, 2014, 01:03:07 PM »
Sure, I don't need to know anything about science to hold the opinion that the Earth is only 10,000 years old.  But of course from a scientific standpoint, that's wrong.  Since constitutionality is a "political and legal" term, that's the standpoint from which it should be discussed.

But you're just put your finger on the difference between scientists on the one hand, and political & legal scholars on the other.  Scientists are concerned with figuring out how the world works, and have the benefit of a world against which to test their theories.  If the theory doesn't match the world, the theory (eventually) loses.  Political & legal scholars deal in bullshit, essentially, and their theories are driven only by how well they can convince others that their strain of bull is the correct one, regardless of whether or not it fits facts.

greaper007

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Re: Neighbor Bought a new Harley
« Reply #72 on: April 21, 2014, 01:17:47 PM »
Now we're getting into Rand Paul territory.   If you want to have an establishment that's open to the public, you have to abide by some rules.    Fire codes have to be enforced, you have to abide by the ADA, and unless you live in some backwater hell hole, you can't smoke in public.    Cigarettes or MJ.    There's a good reason for that.    Other people's lungs shouldn't be harmed because you can't control your need to feed a vice.      The same goes for drinking to excess, keep that junk in your house.

If you don't like that.    Feel free to petition governmental organizations or close down.     I'm not really happy about paying taxes that go towards things black op slush funds, but I accept that it's part of the game.

What's next, are we going to have a discussion about the constitutionality of the 1964 Civil Rights legislation?

There's nothing wrong with Rand Paul territory.  I imagine your and my interpretations of the constitutionality of the 1964 Civil Rights legislation would differ.

I do petition governmental organizations and vote to change the current statutes.  If I owned a business, I would have to follow the law, as the government has the guns and a legal monopoly on violence.  That doesn't mean the laws and regulations are right or constitutional, regardless of what the Supreme Court says.



Do you believe a business owner should be able to refuse service based on the race of potential customers?


Yes.


This my friends, is the problem with elevating a political philosophy (Libertarianism) into religious territory.   Barring the '64 Civil Rights Acts, how exactly would you propose implementing equal protection to all people regardless of their sub-category?     Without a federal government how do we keep one state's dirty air or water that is subjected to lax regulations, from invading another states watershed?    Without legislation on things like smoking in a restaurant, how do we make sure workers aren't forced to work in environments where they're subjected to known carcinogens on a daily basis?

The answer of course is that you can't.    The south had 100 years to implement legislation that would have given blacks equal protection under the law, they did nothing so the fed had to step in.    Same goes with clean water and safe working environments.    We can debate the finer points of constitutional minutia for years, but sometimes someone has to step in and actually do some work to make the country a liveable place.
« Last Edit: April 21, 2014, 01:48:38 PM by greaper007 »

dragoncar

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Re: Neighbor Bought a new Harley
« Reply #73 on: April 21, 2014, 01:27:30 PM »
Sure, I don't need to know anything about science to hold the opinion that the Earth is only 10,000 years old.  But of course from a scientific standpoint, that's wrong.  Since constitutionality is a "political and legal" term, that's the standpoint from which it should be discussed.

But you're just put your finger on the difference between scientists on the one hand, and political & legal scholars on the other.  Scientists are concerned with figuring out how the world works, and have the benefit of a world against which to test their theories.  If the theory doesn't match the world, the theory (eventually) loses.  Political & legal scholars deal in bullshit, essentially, and their theories are driven only by how well they can convince others that their strain of bull is the correct one, regardless of whether or not it fits facts.

In this case it's more mathematical.  We have the constitution, which is axiomatically constitutional.  The constitution says that the Supreme Court decides constitutionality.  The Supreme Court says that the civil rights act is constitutional.  Ergo the civil rights act is constitutional.

If you assert that the civil rights act is not constitutional, then you are implying that the constitution itself is flawed.

But then again, nothing stops you from holding the opinion that logical constructs are false.
« Last Edit: April 21, 2014, 01:29:06 PM by dragoncar »

warfreak2

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Re: Neighbor Bought a new Harley
« Reply #74 on: April 21, 2014, 01:52:36 PM »
Why, sometimes I've believed as many as six impossible things before breakfast.

austin

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Re: Neighbor Bought a new Harley
« Reply #75 on: April 21, 2014, 03:34:15 PM »

Do you believe a business owner should be able to refuse service based on the race of potential customers?

Yes.

Ok, so you are a racist. Now no one has to pretend you have anything intelligent to say.


The only thing you have to do to discredit a libertarian is let them speak.
« Last Edit: April 21, 2014, 03:38:48 PM by austin »

Jamesqf

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Re: Neighbor Bought a new Harley
« Reply #76 on: April 21, 2014, 09:48:25 PM »
In this case it's more mathematical.  We have the constitution, which is axiomatically constitutional.  The constitution says that the Supreme Court decides constitutionality.  The Supreme Court says that the civil rights act is constitutional.  Ergo the civil rights act is constitutional.

If you assert that the civil rights act is not constitutional, then you are implying that the constitution itself is flawed.

But then again, nothing stops you from holding the opinion that logical constructs are false.

But you missed the point about what the lawyers & constitutional scholars do, which is to twist words so that they wind up having a far different meaning than the plain language and study of history would suggest.  For example, consider the 2nd Amendment: only now are we slowly starting to move away from close on a century of laws based on twisting its clear intent (and common practice) to something almost exactly the opposite of the original intent.

Now if you say this was Constitutional because the Supreme Court decided to accept the twisted meaning, you're of course correct.  Just as it's also correct that it's slowly becoming unConstitutional because a majority of justices no longer accept that reasoning, at least in some cases.  But that's rather ignoring a larger point, rather like the state legislatures that mandate teaching "creation science".  Legislation doesn't determine truth.

dragoncar

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Re: Neighbor Bought a new Harley
« Reply #77 on: April 21, 2014, 10:05:11 PM »
In this case it's more mathematical.  We have the constitution, which is axiomatically constitutional.  The constitution says that the Supreme Court decides constitutionality.  The Supreme Court says that the civil rights act is constitutional.  Ergo the civil rights act is constitutional.

If you assert that the civil rights act is not constitutional, then you are implying that the constitution itself is flawed.

But then again, nothing stops you from holding the opinion that logical constructs are false.

But you missed the point about what the lawyers & constitutional scholars do, which is to twist words so that they wind up having a far different meaning than the plain language and study of history would suggest.  For example, consider the 2nd Amendment: only now are we slowly starting to move away from close on a century of laws based on twisting its clear intent (and common practice) to something almost exactly the opposite of the original intent.

Now if you say this was Constitutional because the Supreme Court decided to accept the twisted meaning, you're of course correct.  Just as it's also correct that it's slowly becoming unConstitutional because a majority of justices no longer accept that reasoning, at least in some cases.  But that's rather ignoring a larger point, rather like the state legislatures that mandate teaching "creation science".  Legislation doesn't determine truth.

It's one thing to say "the founding fathers would not have liked this."  It's another thing to say it's unconstitutional.  Some of the founding fathers were real dicks, so I'm not necessarily all that keen to abide by their wishes.

edit: but I do see what you're saying, I just think (some) libertarians are going to need better arguments for (some) of their craziness
« Last Edit: April 21, 2014, 10:06:51 PM by dragoncar »

Jamesqf

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Re: Neighbor Bought a new Harley
« Reply #78 on: April 21, 2014, 11:30:41 PM »
It's one thing to say "the founding fathers would not have liked this."

Sure, but what I'm saying is that just about any fairly well educated person would read the Constitution, and understand a lot of things that are quite different from what legal scholars proclaim them to say.  Of course whether you or I happen to like or dislike any particular part is yet another matter :-)

Quote
edit: but I do see what you're saying, I just think (some) libertarians are going to need better arguments for (some) of their craziness

That's what happens when you elevate any political philosophy above reality.  Then too, there are a good many 'libertarians' (and I used to be a politically-active one) whose libertarianism is almost entirely one-way.  They think it means they can do whatever they please, and ignore the harm their actions may be doing to others.  Or sometimes, just pretend that the harm doesn't even exist, as with second-hand smoke, AGW, &c.

Purple Economist

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Re: Neighbor Bought a new Harley
« Reply #79 on: April 22, 2014, 01:09:02 PM »
In this case it's more mathematical.  We have the constitution, which is axiomatically constitutional.  The constitution says that the Supreme Court decides constitutionality.  The Supreme Court says that the civil rights act is constitutional.  Ergo the civil rights act is constitutional.

If you assert that the civil rights act is not constitutional, then you are implying that the constitution itself is flawed.

But then again, nothing stops you from holding the opinion that logical constructs are false.

But you missed the point about what the lawyers & constitutional scholars do, which is to twist words so that they wind up having a far different meaning than the plain language and study of history would suggest.  For example, consider the 2nd Amendment: only now are we slowly starting to move away from close on a century of laws based on twisting its clear intent (and common practice) to something almost exactly the opposite of the original intent.

Now if you say this was Constitutional because the Supreme Court decided to accept the twisted meaning, you're of course correct.  Just as it's also correct that it's slowly becoming unConstitutional because a majority of justices no longer accept that reasoning, at least in some cases.  But that's rather ignoring a larger point, rather like the state legislatures that mandate teaching "creation science".  Legislation doesn't determine truth.

It's one thing to say "the founding fathers would not have liked this."  It's another thing to say it's unconstitutional.  Some of the founding fathers were real dicks, so I'm not necessarily all that keen to abide by their wishes.

edit: but I do see what you're saying, I just think (some) libertarians are going to need better arguments for (some) of their craziness

There is nothing in the constitution that explicitly spells out the power of judicial review for the Supreme Court.  It only exists through implication and interpretation.  If a person does not believe the power of judicial review exists for the Supreme Court by their interpretation of the constitution, then the Supreme Court has no authority whatsoever on what is constitutional.  The constitution is not explicit on this matter, so to say the constitution says the Supreme Court gets to decide is not correct, or is at least open to interpretation.

I am fine with judicial review and the Supreme Court, as it is preferable to an unchecked government. 

In terms of public accommodation laws, the real problem before the 1964 Civil Rights legislation was governments that forced segregation or discrimination by private businesses through laws.  There is a place for federal law which prohibits these kinds of laws from being enforced.

I personally come down on the side of freedom of association trumping public accommodation.  One benefit of allowing businesses to discriminate is that I get more information about the owner of a business.  If a business is one that chooses to discriminate, then I know quite a bit about the owner and can choose to not support that business.  Now with public accommodation laws, that information is removed from public view.

I have no problem with laws or regulation that prevent actual harm to another individual according to the non-aggression principle.  For me, though, the bar is going to be set pretty high in terms of proving an actual harm and proving that harm is not avoidable.  By avoidable, I mean not doing something (like going to a restaurant).  I don't mean being forced to do something (like leave your house to avoid a harm.)

What I don't understand about non-smoking laws is that you are not allowed to smoke in a business, which is private property, but you can in many public places such as walking down a sidewalk.

Jamesqf

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Re: Neighbor Bought a new Harley
« Reply #80 on: April 22, 2014, 01:19:41 PM »
What I don't understand about non-smoking laws is that you are not allowed to smoke in a business, which is private property, but you can in many public places such as walking down a sidewalk.

That's just physics.  If you're outside, the smoke either dissipates* before it has a chance to impact anyone else, or other people have room to move away.

*In most cases, though I'm sure most of us have run the occasional gauntlet of smokers outside an entrance.

Purple Economist

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Re: Neighbor Bought a new Harley
« Reply #81 on: April 22, 2014, 01:43:01 PM »
What I don't understand about non-smoking laws is that you are not allowed to smoke in a business, which is private property, but you can in many public places such as walking down a sidewalk.

That's just physics.  If you're outside, the smoke either dissipates* before it has a chance to impact anyone else, or other people have room to move away.

*In most cases, though I'm sure most of us have run the occasional gauntlet of smokers outside an entrance.

I can sense one person smoking from probably 100 feet away outside.  It is something my body is highly attuned to.

If you smell the smoke, then you are being exposed to second-hand smoke and it is causing you harm (if you believe the second-hand smoke hysteria).  If you are in a public space, why should someone have to move away to avoid your second-hand smoke?

dragoncar

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Re: Neighbor Bought a new Harley
« Reply #82 on: April 22, 2014, 02:43:45 PM »

There is nothing in the constitution that explicitly spells out the power of judicial review for the Supreme Court.

It's pretty clear to me:

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The judicial power of the United States, shall be vested in one Supreme Court ... The judicial power shall extend to all cases, in law and equity, arising under this Constitution ...

Jamesqf

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Re: Neighbor Bought a new Harley
« Reply #83 on: April 22, 2014, 03:57:55 PM »
I can sense one person smoking from probably 100 feet away outside.  It is something my body is highly attuned to.

That's one of the reasons we have senses, to avoid harmful and/or unpleasant things.

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If you smell the smoke, then you are being exposed to second-hand smoke and it is causing you harm (if you believe the second-hand smoke hysteria).

Because it's the dose that makes the poison.  And trying to spin science as 'hysteria' just points up what I said above about certain people wanting to do whatever they like, and refusing to accept that their acts might be harming others.
« Last Edit: May 03, 2014, 10:27:49 PM by Jamesqf »

franklin w. dixon

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Re: Neighbor Bought a new Harley
« Reply #84 on: May 02, 2014, 07:46:04 PM »
Here's what I love the most about them sweet sweet HD LOUD PIPES RuMBPLE RUMBMPEL

Harleys come stock with exhaust that's 100% "fine." It still makes that brr--r-r-r-ap noise under acceleration but that's because they are very large air-cooled V-2 engines. They aren't particularly loud in part because they comply with all noise ordinances across all 50 states and for that matter even local jurisdictions. When I bought my HD (which, full disclosure, I sold literally 3 days ago), my dad was actually shocked by how quiet it was, because it turns out, heh heh, the very first damn thing everybody does when they buy a Harley is spend an extra three grand to swap out the exhaust for that sweet rumble "augh augh augh" -Tim "The Tool Man" Taylor.

However, in point of fact, modern bikes have computer-controlled fuel injection and different exhausts have different backpressures and so on which means that if you change the exhaust in order to make it work correctly you have to download and install new software because otherwise the computer will just sloppily inject fuel all haywire because it can't make heads or tails of the data from the exhaust. Some people do that, which is the "correct" way to put on crazy LOUD PIPES, but a lot of people don't. Which means that they have dramatically reduced horsepower (from engines that aren't exactly muscular to begin with), fuel mileage reduced by a third, and crazy wear and tear on the engine such that it's liable to blow up after 10,000 miles. But by god it's worth it cause that sucker is LOUD AS HELL god bless america.

franklin w. dixon

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Re: Neighbor Bought a new Harley
« Reply #85 on: May 02, 2014, 07:50:53 PM »
Also that people don't notice/don't care about destroying their engines because they never ride the damn things anyway. Search your local craigslist for HDs and see how many you find like this one http://washingtondc.craigslist.org/mld/mcy/4441405600.html

2009 model with 3,000 miles? What are you doing???

Funnier still are the ones that come up (and they frequently do) with literally a few hundred miles on them, which uniformly means either that some knucklehead bought it and then rode it a few times on Saturdays and was like "gee this is scary," or even more likely, he bought it and then his wife was like "I Do Not Think So Tim." Noice.

franklin w. dixon

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Re: Neighbor Bought a new Harley
« Reply #86 on: May 02, 2014, 07:55:12 PM »
Like this beauty http://washingtondc.craigslist.org/nva/mcy/4449495155.html

2 years old and a princely 726 miles. Come on now. You walk more than 350 miles per year...

Milkman666

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Re: Neighbor Bought a new Harley
« Reply #87 on: May 03, 2014, 04:58:52 PM »
Why, sometimes I've believed as many as six impossible things before breakfast.

I'll meet you at the Restaurant at the End of the Universe. I'll be the fat guy with the loud Honda.

mjs111

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Re: Neighbor Bought a new Harley
« Reply #88 on: May 03, 2014, 05:31:54 PM »
I was curious how Harley Davidson was able to get away with making such loud vehicles.  Are they designed to be just below the maximum allowed decibel levels? I can't think of any other stock vehicles on the road, motorcycles or otherwise, that are as loud as Harley Davidson's are.


Mike

notquitefrugal

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Re: Neighbor Bought a new Harley
« Reply #89 on: May 03, 2014, 09:22:07 PM »
I was curious how Harley Davidson was able to get away with making such loud vehicles.  Are they designed to be just below the maximum allowed decibel levels? I can't think of any other stock vehicles on the road, motorcycles or otherwise, that are as loud as Harley Davidson's are.


Mike

I'm guessing 99% of the buyers are assholes who get the straight pipes installed. I seldom see one with a proper muffler.

deborah

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Re: Neighbor Bought a new Harley
« Reply #90 on: May 03, 2014, 10:00:16 PM »
My neighbour has a Harley - she is slender and belongs to the local Lesbian Harley club - so I see a lot of other non male Harley people on occasions when she throws a party.

Jamesqf

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Re: Neighbor Bought a new Harley
« Reply #91 on: May 03, 2014, 10:31:08 PM »
Also that people don't notice/don't care about destroying their engines because they never ride the damn things anyway.

There's an annual Harley event hereabouts, and I'm always amazed at the number of people who haul their bikes in on trailers...

biscuitwhomper

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Re: Neighbor Bought a new Harley
« Reply #92 on: May 04, 2014, 11:04:23 AM »
I am shamelessly jumping on the bandwagon here.    Someone discovered the quiet, picturesque, rural road I live on and posted it to some part-time pirate riding forum in Seattle.    When summer comes now, my 20mph corner is filled with these things, ALWAYS at full throttle out of the 90 degree turn, even if I am right next to the road weeding the hedgerow and they see me.    Once in a while, a rider decides to not be a d-bag and rides with respect, but that is about 5% of the time.     The latest thing I have noticed is that these bikes now have stereos that blast Foghat and Molly Hatchet at a level that supersedes the sound of the oversized lawnmower engine that is the Harley V-twin.

The part that gets me is that these insurance salesmen, dentists, and accountants would go nuts if I drove my truck through their suburban neighborhood with the same level of disrespect.   I know there are decent riders out there, but given what I experience from May-September, they are few and far between.     

FunkyStickman

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Re: Neighbor Bought a new Harley
« Reply #93 on: May 04, 2014, 12:06:27 PM »
So true... because they get the ridiculously loud aftermarket pipes, then they have to have even louder stereos! I mean, seriously, if you're only hearing BRAP and loud rock-n-roll, you might as well drive a car and just use a portable fan to get that wind-in-your-hair feeling.

mjs111

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Re: Neighbor Bought a new Harley
« Reply #94 on: May 04, 2014, 01:15:44 PM »
Checking in with a Harley engineer (I'm not a motorcycle guy myself), it is indeed the after market pipes

That said, the after market pipes are sold with a sticker on the box that says "Not for road use."  I imagine the corporate lawyers for the manufacturers of the after market pipes would be shocked and saddened to hear that they are in fact being incorporated for road use.


Mike

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Re: Neighbor Bought a new Harley
« Reply #95 on: May 04, 2014, 05:16:47 PM »
Like this beauty http://washingtondc.craigslist.org/nva/mcy/4449495155.html

2 years old and a princely 726 miles. Come on now. You walk more than 350 miles per year...
I just shook my head and laughed seeing the mention of the lien in this posting.
As to your previous post on people swapping the exhaust, I'm just going wtf at the ones that don't even change the computer.  I'm wondering if they are the same ones selling them with such low miles, since someone riding a lot would have messed up the engine as you say after 10k miles.
My stepfather was one of those that bought a new bike, and then my mother went  I do not think so.

notquitefrugal

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Re: Neighbor Bought a new Harley
« Reply #96 on: May 04, 2014, 08:22:47 PM »
As others have noted, Harleys are ridiculously overpriced for what they are, and have been for some time, and basically selling on their name/image/reputation. For $20-30k, you can buy a new BMW or Ducati and have money to spare (and I say that as someone who doesn't even like motorcycles).

Jamesqf

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Re: Neighbor Bought a new Harley
« Reply #97 on: May 04, 2014, 11:26:23 PM »
So true... because they get the ridiculously loud aftermarket pipes, then they have to have even louder stereos! I mean, seriously, if you're only hearing BRAP and loud rock-n-roll...

Thing is, a lot of people, including many motorcycle riders, don't realize that you simply don't hear a lot of the noise your bike* is making when you're on it. 

*That's true of all bikes, not just Harleys, though of course most other bikes are quieter to start with.

dragoncar

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Re: Neighbor Bought a new Harley
« Reply #98 on: May 05, 2014, 07:48:55 AM »
So true... because they get the ridiculously loud aftermarket pipes, then they have to have even louder stereos! I mean, seriously, if you're only hearing BRAP and loud rock-n-roll...

Thing is, a lot of people, including many motorcycle riders, don't realize that you simply don't hear a lot of the noise your bike* is making when you're on it. 

*That's true of all bikes, not just Harleys, though of course most other bikes are quieter to start with.

But they rarely ride alone, so they are just going along thinking the guy in front of them is abnormally loud and they themselves are quiet as a mouse?  I think not.

BlueMR2

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Re: Neighbor Bought a new Harley
« Reply #99 on: May 05, 2014, 10:12:58 AM »
Thing is, a lot of people, including many motorcycle riders, don't realize that you simply don't hear a lot of the noise your bike* is making when you're on it. 

Indeed.  If the bike is too quiet, bend the exhaust tips around so they point at you...

One of the dumbest things I hear from Harley riders is how it needs to be loud so people will see them easier.  Doesn't work.  It's just an obnoxious roar that goes everywhere (although mostly out the back, so people coming towards you don't really hear it anyways).  It's like horns on a car.  I gave up on ever using mine.  As a warning they're useless since the person being stupid that you're honking at is totally oblivious to the horn as well as the original situation.  Then everyone else that is paying attention starts looking around trying to figure out what's going on and becomes an accident risk themselves.  Instead of having horns being required equipment, they should be banned!