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Around the Internet => Antimustachian Wall of Shame and Comedy => Topic started by: frugalfoothills on January 25, 2018, 03:09:29 PM

Title: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: frugalfoothills on January 25, 2018, 03:09:29 PM
Allow me to paint a picture:

My sister, 26 years old, and her husband, 29 years old, both currently unemployed.
My sister has a bachelor's degree and a master's that my parents paid for out of pocket. Zero student loans, graduated in May of 2016. My brother-in-law graduated from chiropractic school in December 2017 with $90k in student loan debt. Sister got a part-time job at a hospital and worked for a year (October 2016 to October 2017), then quit her job so that she and the BIL could relocate.

Relocation is happening so that he can open his own chiropractic office. They have taken a loan from his father for $150k to get the practice up and running. Original start date was supposed to be March of 2018, but has since been pushed out until July at the earliest. For those doing the math: 7 months away.

In the meantime, neither are planning on getting jobs. They are renting a 3 br house (it's just the 2 of them) for $2k a month and using the business loan to pay their rent. They are also exclusively shopping at Whole Foods (they only eat organic), are considering purchasing a new (to them) car, and have made plenty of other questionable purchases using the business loan as if it's "income."

$90k in student loan debt, $150k business loan. Both loans set to come due starting in July, or month 1 that they're open for business. They're planning on using money leftover in the business loan to make his student loan payments if needed. No word on what they'll be using to make the business loan payments, and no word on how they'll be paying themselves! The mystery. The intrigue.

Whenever money comes up and my sis senses some skepticism on behalf of my family, I am informed that my BIL was part of a "special program" in chiropractic school (this program is apparently affiliated with the school in some way, but you have to pay to be a part of it on top of your tuition?) that taught him the secrets of how to become a millionaire within a year. They're expecting to be VERY wealthy VERY quickly through this chiropractic office.

Am I missing something here? Are most chiropractors millionaires? Is starting a chiropractic office somehow different than starting other businesses that would make it more lucrative more quickly?

They've also told me that they're planning on buying "a lot of land" (they're in a HCOL area) and building their dream house, and also building homes on the land for myself, my parents, and his parents. That's the level of delusion we're talking about here.


Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaires Family Members
Post by: Just Joe on January 25, 2018, 03:12:29 PM
What school? Fly-by-night affair?
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaires Family Members
Post by: frugalfoothills on January 25, 2018, 03:19:18 PM
What school? Fly-by-night affair?

I don't want to say specifically, and I don't know *too* much about the credibility of chiropractic schools in general, but it was a real university in the southeast that seems like a legit school to me (and I am a highly skeptical person by nature.) That being said, this whole "get rich quick" program they allow to be affiliated with them makes me question things. Even if it's not offered BY the school, the school advertises it and allows their students pay to be a part of this program where they're pumped full of information about how chiropractic is a literal godsend and cures all (cancer, IBS, psoriasis, etc. etc.) and are encouraged to seek out "customers." They have to pay to participate on top of tuition, and are also required to work for other chiropractors who are part of this program for free as some kind of side "internship"... the whole thing leaves a bad taste in my mouth.
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaires Family Members
Post by: faithless on January 25, 2018, 03:37:44 PM
pumped full of information about how chiropractic is a literal godsend and cures all (cancer, IBS, psoriasis, etc. etc.) and are encouraged to seek out "customers." They have to pay to participate on top of tuition, and are also required to work for other chiropractors who are part of this program for free as some kind of side "internship"

Was the extra course 'applying reverse funnel system techniques to your chiropractic practice'?
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: frugalecon on January 25, 2018, 03:48:02 PM
To determine whether a chiropractor can become a millionaire in a year, I would start by multiplying the number of patients a chiropractor can see in a week by the planned fee, multiply that by 50 (two weeks off/year), and then subtract out business expenses. Perhaps cloning is part of the secret.
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: bacchi on January 25, 2018, 04:16:23 PM
To determine whether a chiropractor can become a millionaire in a year, I would start by multiplying the number of patients a chiropractor can see in a week by the planned fee, multiply that by 50 (two weeks off/year), and then subtract out business expenses. Perhaps cloning is part of the secret.

If every patient is 5 minutes in-and-out, and an upsell healing crystal is sold, it can be done.

Chiropractors can make good money but they should stick to bones and muscles. All of the woo-woo curing cancer BS just makes their profession seem silly.

Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: frugalfoothills on January 25, 2018, 04:36:21 PM
To determine whether a chiropractor can become a millionaire in a year, I would start by multiplying the number of patients a chiropractor can see in a week by the planned fee, multiply that by 50 (two weeks off/year), and then subtract out business expenses. Perhaps cloning is part of the secret.

If every patient is 5 minutes in-and-out, and an upsell healing crystal is sold, it can be done.

Chiropractors can make good money but they should stick to bones and muscles. All of the woo-woo curing cancer BS just makes their profession seem silly.

The real irony is that both he and my sister ascribe to this (they are very anti hospital, anti doctors, anti medication) but my sister has a chronic skin condition. She preaches that chiropractic and a vegan diet can heal anything, and yet she isn't able to touch things like literal SOAP without experiencing this crippling "breakout" that renders her incapable of doing anything. I'm constantly told about how various things in my life will kill me and give me cancer (nail polish, candles, tap water, MAMMOGRAMS) and meanwhile she is sitting there unable to pet her dog without wearing special gloves.

I do feel for her with the health issues, but it's hard not to sit and shake your head at the cognitive dissonance.
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: TempusFugit on January 25, 2018, 04:54:29 PM
I've got some chiropractor friends that do very well financially.  The key is to own the clinic and employ lower paid chiropractors to work at said clinic, thus multiplying your throughput.

I'm not really sold on chiropractors as legit medical professionals, but I certainly separate the ones who seem to stay within the boundary of back pain issues from the truly weird ones who think an "adjustment" can cure any disease.  There seems (in my limited experience) to be a big overlap in a Venn diagram of chiropractors and anti-vaxxer types. 

To be fair, I think there's lots of evidence that back surgeons are equally guilty of reliance upon the placebo effect. And one might argue that they put people at much more risk.

I hope to never need the service of either, and I'm sure that if I'm unlucky enough to suffer from chronic pain, I'll be equally eager to find someone who promises to help.
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: Cowardly Toaster on January 25, 2018, 05:10:40 PM
Some chiropractors are goofballs, but all the ones I've visited are scientific about what they do. Personally, I don't think I would be able to move if it weren't for CP treatment.

Quite the risky game your family is playing. A new practice doesn't just come with patients, they'll have to build up their base first. And what the heck about the special program he was in in school? that just sounds sketchy.
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: frugalfoothills on January 25, 2018, 05:12:15 PM
I've got some chiropractor friends that do very well financially.  The key is to own the clinic and employ lower paid chiropractors to work at said clinic, thus multiplying your throughput.

I'm not really sold on chiropractors as legit medical professionals, but I certainly separate the ones who seem to stay within the boundary of back pain issues from the truly weird ones who think an "adjustment" can cure any disease.  There seems (in my limited experience) to be a big overlap in a Venn diagram of chiropractors and anti-vaxxer types. 

To be fair, I think there's lots of evidence that back surgeons are equally guilty of reliance upon the placebo effect. And one might argue that they put people at much more risk.

I hope to never need the service of either, and I'm sure that if I'm unlucky enough to suffer from chronic pain, I'll be equally eager to find someone who promises to help.

I actually am pretty pro-chiropractic due to a back injury I incurred in high school. Sports therapists, orthopedists, my general practitioner... no one could help me until I saw a chiropractor. I swear that dude had magic hands.

But telling someone with cancer to forego chemo and eat vegan and see a chiropractor instead? Damn son, you got balls. I'm not willing to gamble anyone's life on that.

But back to the finances: I can't get the math to work. He will be the only chiropractor. To gross a million bucks, he'd need to see 385 patients a week at $50 a pop. 385 patients in a 40 hour work week means almost 10 patients an hour. My chiropractor sees about 2.

Wtf?
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: Cpa Cat on January 25, 2018, 05:26:10 PM
Am I missing something here? Are most chiropractors millionaires? Is starting a chiropractic office somehow different than starting other businesses that would make it more lucrative more quickly?

I have several chiropractor clients and none are millionaires, but they do have healthy incomes. However, by healthy, I mean low six-figures. They have also been building their businesses for several years. Will they be millionaires one day? Yes, in all likelihood, and it will go quicker than the average working schlup.

On the other hand, there is a lot of competition in the chiropractic industry. It often seems as though there's a chiropractor on every corner. With that kind of competition, there's only so much a chiropractor can charge.

The most successful of the chiropractors - the only Chiropractic-Millionaire I know - branched out from regular work. He became the exclusive chiropractor for a successful sports team, and then he designed app to help people do stretches that target their particular problem, and then he got a big corporate contract where he goes into giant corporate offices and gives lectures, adjustments, and makes recommendations in order to assist in reducing workplace injuries and worker's comp claims.

As others have mentioned - it would require a staggering number of patients to make a million in one year - and that's gross. Then there are employee costs for processing insurance claims, overhead costs for rent, taxes, marketing, insurance, etc. Then you'd need the patients to be filling the schedule on day one.  In order to get patients, a significant amount of networking needs to occur - but there's no time in that schedule for unpaid networking.

I'm sure his father will accept a delay in payment terms.
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: The_Dude on January 25, 2018, 05:42:20 PM
I have a friend that went to Chiropractor school.  He said that there are two types of Chiropractor schools, those that believe a chiropractor can cure any disease through spinal manipulation and those that don't.  His school did not believe or teach that anything could be cured through spinal manipulation but they had a few guest speakers come through that did.  These speakers told stories about curing everything from cancer to snake bites. 

A friend of a friend worked at a high volume chiropractor for a while.  Apparently they had amazing patient per hour throughput.  Treated everything like an assembly line and the chiropractor used the same basic adjustments on nearly everyone.  Most patients saw the actual chiropractor for a very short time (don't recall exactly, maybe 5 minutes?) and of course they used heavy sales tactics to try and keep people coming indefinitely for "preventative care."
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: WhiteTrashCash on January 25, 2018, 05:45:19 PM
I don't go to Chiropractors and I also don't go to Faith Healers or Hoodoo Fortune Tellers. They are all pretty much the same thing.
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: southern granny on January 25, 2018, 06:16:08 PM
I don't go to Chiropractors and I also don't go to Faith Healers or Hoodoo Fortune Tellers. They are all pretty much the same thing.
As a 60 year old woman who has had back trouble since I was 19, I am convinced I would be in a wheel chair by now without chiropractors or dead from pain killers.  I have a very good cp, but I know where he lives and I am pretty sure he isn't a millionaire, but he is only about 38, so he may be someday. 
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: Sibley on January 25, 2018, 08:04:04 PM
Wow. OP, assuming you'll see your family for holidays, etc - prepare for drama. Popcorn, lots of it. Maybe 4th of July, definitely Thanksgiving, and increasing chances in between.

Also, don't lend anyone a penny until you know how everything is going to fall out. Including future EOC/enabling.
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: frugalecon on January 25, 2018, 08:08:19 PM
The “special program” sounds like it could be a multi-level marketing scheme. That would be a way to gross a cool mill without much trouble.

Just out of curiosity, I googled the name of a chiropractic university I had heard of in a major Southern city and “scam,” and I found a lot of hits. I am sure someone is earning a million dollars, but it may not be the students....
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: bacchi on January 25, 2018, 10:57:40 PM
The “special program” sounds like it could be a multi-level marketing scheme. That would be a way to gross a cool mill without much trouble.

Yo, it's not an MLM. It's a reverse funnel!
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: damyst on January 26, 2018, 12:45:21 AM
Wow. OP, assuming you'll see your family for holidays, etc - prepare for drama. Popcorn, lots of it. Maybe 4th of July, definitely Thanksgiving, and increasing chances in between.

I'd love to see some updates from the OP later in the year.
It would be awesome if their plan works out and the whole family is rolling in dough, but... yeah, don't forget that popcorn.
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: Dicey on January 26, 2018, 01:25:34 AM
I don't go to Chiropractors and I also don't go to Faith Healers or Hoodoo Fortune Tellers. They are all pretty much the same thing.
If you don't go, then how do you know?

To the OP, the most cringe worthy part of this story is the FIL. I sure hope he can afford to lose this much money.
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: Davnasty on January 26, 2018, 09:32:49 AM
Is the name "Maximized Living" involved in this million dollar scheme?

I had an x-ray and a few adjustments at one of those places and they were clearly promoting the "Chiropractors are magic healers" view. I even went to a cancer "educational" event after I had realized how bad it was - because there was free food. That's when I saw who their clientele was; mostly middle aged to elderly overweight women who were looking for something to fix all their problems. Prepaying thousands for 2-3 adjustments/week.
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: ms on January 26, 2018, 12:20:25 PM
I fell for that kind of chiropractic care. The guy did our x-rays and clearly mine was worse than my child's and so he preyed on my emotions and said that with his treatment we can avoid my kid becoming as bad as me. So we prepaid thousands of dollars and went to treatments 2-3x a week for however long. It was an assembly line. He had three tables set up with a half wall divider between, an electronic system that called your name and table number. He would spend <5 mins with each patient and send them on their way. It took a few months that I realized that it was just a sales technique and it was not so much about our health.

Now I go to a chiropractor whenever I get tightness in my lower back and I come back on my schedule. This new guy is very easy going and only if the adjustment was particularly difficult will he suggest to come back sooner than I normally would.
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: boarder42 on January 26, 2018, 12:43:35 PM
i'm more interested in this school and how long it takes to get this degree - if i can get a CP degree and become a millionaire in one year i can be a billionaire fairly quickly - assuming i earn 1MM and invest 900k per year start at -240k ---- lets see here. i only have to work at it 50 years - but if whatever they are doing can be replicated each year i can do it over and over so one year my income is 1MM the next 2MM so now my contributions to my investments grow by 1MM per year now we're looking at 30 years til i'm living like the sultaine of brunei. 

man all you nay sayers should really re-evaluate this- i cant believe more people arent requesting to go to this school. 
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: Just Joe on January 26, 2018, 12:56:47 PM
You can be our test case. Let's reconvene in a year and discuss your outlook on the method to millions. ;)
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: Davnasty on January 26, 2018, 01:39:56 PM
I fell for that kind of chiropractic care. The guy did our x-rays and clearly mine was worse than my child's and so he preyed on my emotions and said that with his treatment we can avoid my kid becoming as bad as me. So we prepaid thousands of dollars and went to treatments 2-3x a week for however long. It was an assembly line. He had three tables set up with a half wall divider between, an electronic system that called your name and table number. He would spend <5 mins with each patient and send them on their way. It took a few months that I realized that it was just a sales technique and it was not so much about our health.

Now I go to a chiropractor whenever I get tightness in my lower back and I come back on my schedule. This new guy is very easy going and only if the adjustment was particularly difficult will he suggest to come back sooner than I normally would.

That's the one, right down to the three tables with wall dividers. They even told my girlfriend that her cancer was 'probably' because of that subluxation in her spine.

I almost felt bad for the chiropractor too because she was young and seemed to sincerely believe what she was saying. On the other hand she's the one making money off of it, so screw her.
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: BabyShark on January 26, 2018, 02:06:16 PM
Ugh yes, please update us on this
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: Mac_MacGyver on January 27, 2018, 04:01:38 AM
OP do you get to design your own home or will they design the home?
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: frugalfoothills on January 27, 2018, 07:52:38 AM
I fell for that kind of chiropractic care. The guy did our x-rays and clearly mine was worse than my child's and so he preyed on my emotions and said that with his treatment we can avoid my kid becoming as bad as me. So we prepaid thousands of dollars and went to treatments 2-3x a week for however long. It was an assembly line. He had three tables set up with a half wall divider between, an electronic system that called your name and table number. He would spend <5 mins with each patient and send them on their way. It took a few months that I realized that it was just a sales technique and it was not so much about our health.

Now I go to a chiropractor whenever I get tightness in my lower back and I come back on my schedule. This new guy is very easy going and only if the adjustment was particularly difficult will he suggest to come back sooner than I normally would.

That's the one, right down to the three tables with wall dividers. They even told my girlfriend that her cancer was 'probably' because of that subluxation in her spine.

I almost felt bad for the chiropractor too because she was young and seemed to sincerely believe what she was saying. On the other hand she's the one making money off of it, so screw her.

This is 100% something my sis and her husband would think/say. I get feeling conflicted because they’re so earnest in their beliefs....  but like you said, they’re making money off fear mongering (at best! At worst they are gambling with peoples lives if you’re telling a cancer patient to forego the advice of their oncologist because Medicine Bad, Holistic Good.) I do not think the university teaches that crap, I think it was pumped into my BIL by the special program he took part in. Genius really, when you think about it... they have convinced these kids that it’s not a scam to solicit customers off the street and convince them to spend $1500 on a preventative care package because they’ve been brainwashed into thinking they are literally saving lives with chiropractic.

I mean, you want to act like a real doctor who heals and you want to have chiropractic seen as a form of medicine... but I’m trying to imagine my gynecologist passing out flyers on the side of the road to convince people they need weekly Pap smears instead of every year, and I just can’t visualize it....
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: frugalfoothills on January 27, 2018, 07:58:28 AM
OP do you get to design your own home or will they design the home?

Good question!! Also will I need to pay anything to live in this dream home or am I now a kept woman? Kept by my brother in law (since that’s not weird or anything)
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: penguintroopers on January 27, 2018, 03:43:08 PM
Wow. OP, assuming you'll see your family for holidays, etc - prepare for drama. Popcorn, lots of it. Maybe 4th of July, definitely Thanksgiving, and increasing chances in between.

I'd love to see some updates from the OP later in the year.
It would be awesome if their plan works out and the whole family is rolling in dough, but... yeah, don't forget that popcorn.

Posting to follow as well. I foresee implosion when the practice isn't actually open until August, and a very ugly Thanksgiving when the dad is wondering when the couple will actually start making payments.
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: YttriumNitrate on January 27, 2018, 05:26:29 PM
Well, apparently it is possible to make a million are year as a chiropractor. It looks like medicare pays $23.80 per treatment, so you just need to do 42,000 treatments per year. That works out to ~21 treatments per hour for a 2,000 hour year. Of course, it would be better to up that to closer to ~30 treatments per hour so you have time to spend with the Department of Health and Human Services when they come knocking on your door for medicare fraud.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2014/04/29/medicare-data-chiropractors-reimbursements/7720741/ (https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2014/04/29/medicare-data-chiropractors-reimbursements/7720741/)
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: Apple_Tango on January 28, 2018, 02:27:22 PM
I was listening to Dave ramsey today and heard a conversation relevant to this discussion about the debt vs earnings of chiropractors. The quote that comes at the end is “if I were in your shoes there is no possible way I would go into debt $180,000 to be a chiropractor”. Now we all know that Dave is a zero debt guy so maybe you can take that with a grain of salt. But the fact that your relatives are using a business loan to pay their rent???? Seems suspect.

https://youtu.be/xU3l7Ylx1CU
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: Parizade on January 28, 2018, 03:20:54 PM
Been following your other thread (re: your deadbeat roommate) and all I can think is DON'T LET THEM MOVE IN WITH YOU WHEN THEY CRASH AND BURN!!!!! because I predict they will expect you (aka BIL Moneybags) to bail them out. Because you're such a nice guy and helped out your friend for all those years. And now that she's moved out you have all this extra room so why wouldn't you let them move in for awhile? Because they WILL be millionaires soon you know.

DON'T DO IT!
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: frugalfoothills on January 28, 2018, 05:58:41 PM
Been following your other thread (re: your deadbeat roommate) and all I can think is DON'T LET THEM MOVE IN WITH YOU WHEN THEY CRASH AND BURN!!!!! because I predict they will expect you (aka BIL Moneybags) to bail them out. Because you're such a nice guy and helped out your friend for all those years. And now that she's moved out you have all this extra room so why wouldn't you let them move in for awhile? Because they WILL be millionaires soon you know.

DON'T DO IT!

HAHAHA!! More like SIL Moneybags, but close enough. Hey who knows, maybe my karmic retribution for the roommate situation will be my sis and BIL striking it rich and someone will toss some cash MY way for a change ;)
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: Cassie on January 28, 2018, 06:22:08 PM
I have went to chiropractors for years since being in 7 car accidents by the time I was 30. The type you describe are what gives the profession a bad name. A reputable one will spend time with you and tell you that you will know when you need to come back.  Also a reputable chiropractor will stick to their expertise which is not curing cancer, etc.  I have moved a lot so have had to change doctors and all I have been to have done well but I doubt they were millionaires young. No doubt if smart with their $ that they become ones eventually.   My chiropractor in general sees 4 patients an hour. If you need more time he gives it to you.  Some people take less time to adjust depending on what the issue is.  I sure hope the FIL has the $ to waste. I can't believe they aren't working now but spending the $ they should be using to open their business.
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: AccidentalMiser on January 28, 2018, 06:27:03 PM
Been following your other thread (re: your deadbeat roommate) and all I can think is DON'T LET THEM MOVE IN WITH YOU WHEN THEY CRASH AND BURN!!!!! because I predict they will expect you (aka BIL Moneybags) to bail them out. Because you're such a nice guy and helped out your friend for all those years. And now that she's moved out you have all this extra room so why wouldn't you let them move in for awhile? Because they WILL be millionaires soon you know.

DON'T DO IT!

This.  They are headed for ruin.
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: BlueHouse on January 28, 2018, 06:36:31 PM
oh yeah, definitely can become a millionaire within a few years.  I went to Chiropractors for about 20 years and they really helped my neck and back pain.  When I moved to Atlanta, there was a Chiropractor every place you look, all of whom graduated from Life College.  Life also offers degrees in nutrition, so it makes sense that just about every Chiropractic grad is also a nutrition expert/enthusiast. 
Life college obviously teaches marketing because every Life Chiropractor that I've gone to had the same exact spiel.  I didn't mind it, it worked for my pain.  The spiel was always that I needed 3-4 times per week, tapering down to 1xweek until I could finally go on maintenance at 1x/month.  It seemed to coincide with what my insurance paid.  Once I realized that most Life DCs couldn't go off script, it started to annoy me.  I knew what I needed and when I needed it -- and some were okay with that and others really couldn't deal with it.   I also found that every DC had their favorite "toys" to loosen you up until they could adjust you -- then you just find a doc whose toys you like.  I finally found one who had a massage therapist on staff (and I could get insurance to pay for massages).  The regular massages taught me that my pain was from muscle tension.  Turns out that ibuprofen immediatlely cures my headaches!  And regular stretching/exercise and hydration avoids neck and headaches all together.  I'm now convinced that chiropractors aren't for me -- I could have saved a lot of money if I had known earlier. 
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: Parizade on January 29, 2018, 05:33:26 AM
HAHAHA!! More like SIL Moneybags, but close enough. Hey who knows, maybe my karmic retribution for the roommate situation will be my sis and BIL striking it rich and someone will toss some cash MY way for a change ;)

oops, sorry for the mixup! My experience with FI has been that the wealthier I get the more friends and family expect ME to toss cash their way. Like you, I have an excess of empathy and am too happy to help. Learn from mistakes! I still enjoy giving and helping but now I have very firm boundaries. I give what I want to give and no more.
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: frugalfoothills on January 29, 2018, 08:28:20 AM
oh yeah, definitely can become a millionaire within a few years.  I went to Chiropractors for about 20 years and they really helped my neck and back pain.  When I moved to Atlanta, there was a Chiropractor every place you look, all of whom graduated from Life College.  Life also offers degrees in nutrition, so it makes sense that just about every Chiropractic grad is also a nutrition expert/enthusiast. 
Life college obviously teaches marketing because every Life Chiropractor that I've gone to had the same exact spiel.  I didn't mind it, it worked for my pain.  The spiel was always that I needed 3-4 times per week, tapering down to 1xweek until I could finally go on maintenance at 1x/month.  It seemed to coincide with what my insurance paid.  Once I realized that most Life DCs couldn't go off script, it started to annoy me.  I knew what I needed and when I needed it -- and some were okay with that and others really couldn't deal with it.   I also found that every DC had their favorite "toys" to loosen you up until they could adjust you -- then you just find a doc whose toys you like.  I finally found one who had a massage therapist on staff (and I could get insurance to pay for massages).  The regular massages taught me that my pain was from muscle tension.  Turns out that ibuprofen immediatlely cures my headaches!  And regular stretching/exercise and hydration avoids neck and headaches all together.  I'm now convinced that chiropractors aren't for me -- I could have saved a lot of money if I had known earlier.

I wasn't planning on disclosing the name of his college but since you tossed it out there, he also graduated from Life. I didn't realize they were also a nutrition/exercise school... makes sense why everything gets tangled together instead of keeping chiropractic treatment separate from all the other stuff.

Like many on this thread have echoed, I have (through my own research over the past year or so) figured out that chiropractors seem to fall into 2 separate schools of thought: new age and old school. Old School chiros seem more interested in treating injuries (example: when I fucked up my back so bad I couldn't walk and no one could help me until I saw a chiropractor), whereas these New Age chiros are interested in selling an idea.... eat well and avoid all traditional western medicine and opt for alternative, holistic methods instead. Eat vegan and get 3 adjustments a week and you'll never get cancer, never have issues, never experience disease or pain. It's a crock.

It's also dangerous because it's a profitable crock and you're preying on people's fears to get them to sign up for treatments that they might not even need. I mean, my BIL once told me that they adjusted a 3 day old infant one time! Get the fuck outta here.
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: dude on January 29, 2018, 08:44:30 AM
A chiro friend of mine with his own practice who's been in the biz for 20 years makes around $120k/year.  And it's very hard work on their own bodies.  His shoulders are totally fucked from adjusting people and he's said he probably only has another 5 years in him (he's 51).
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: Beard N Bones on January 29, 2018, 10:45:50 AM
oh yeah, definitely can become a millionaire within a few years.  I went to Chiropractors for about 20 years and they really helped my neck and back pain.  When I moved to Atlanta, there was a Chiropractor every place you look, all of whom graduated from Life College.  Life also offers degrees in nutrition, so it makes sense that just about every Chiropractic grad is also a nutrition expert/enthusiast. 
Life college obviously teaches marketing because every Life Chiropractor that I've gone to had the same exact spiel.  I didn't mind it, it worked for my pain.  The spiel was always that I needed 3-4 times per week, tapering down to 1xweek until I could finally go on maintenance at 1x/month.  It seemed to coincide with what my insurance paid.  Once I realized that most Life DCs couldn't go off script, it started to annoy me.  I knew what I needed and when I needed it -- and some were okay with that and others really couldn't deal with it.   I also found that every DC had their favorite "toys" to loosen you up until they could adjust you -- then you just find a doc whose toys you like.  I finally found one who had a massage therapist on staff (and I could get insurance to pay for massages).  The regular massages taught me that my pain was from muscle tension.  Turns out that ibuprofen immediatlely cures my headaches!  And regular stretching/exercise and hydration avoids neck and headaches all together.  I'm now convinced that chiropractors aren't for me -- I could have saved a lot of money if I had known earlier.

I wasn't planning on disclosing the name of his college but since you tossed it out there, he also graduated from Life. I didn't realize they were also a nutrition/exercise school... makes sense why everything gets tangled together instead of keeping chiropractic treatment separate from all the other stuff.

Like many on this thread have echoed, I have (through my own research over the past year or so) figured out that chiropractors seem to fall into 2 separate schools of thought: new age and old school. Old School chiros seem more interested in treating injuries (example: when I fucked up my back so bad I couldn't walk and no one could help me until I saw a chiropractor), whereas these New Age chiros are interested in selling an idea.... eat well and avoid all traditional western medicine and opt for alternative, holistic methods instead. Eat vegan and get 3 adjustments a week and you'll never get cancer, never have issues, never experience disease or pain. It's a crock.

It's also dangerous because it's a profitable crock and you're preying on people's fears to get them to sign up for treatments that they might not even need. I mean, my BIL once told me that they adjusted a 3 day old infant one time! Get the fuck outta here.

As a chiropractor, I would disagree with this.  Chiropractic has traditionally taken a dogmatic approach, believing that the underlying issue of someone's problem is an "undisputed"/"non-verifiable" entity called the "vertebral subluxation."  (This had a lot to do with the conflict that the AMA had with the chiropractors decades ago.)  This is what you are referring to when you talk about the 'New Age' Chiros.  This has been around since the beginning of Chiropractic in North America.  I would submit to you that a high quality Chiropractor (or any other type of health care practitioner) is one that will take three things into account with every single patient they see:  1. What the patient brings (their need, their beliefs, their situation)  2.  What the scientific body of evidence says about the condition at hand  3.  The Chiropractor's own knowledge & expertise.  All three must be taken into account. 

Regarding treatment of infants, a couple of points:  I would submit to you that treating an infant would look very different than the treatment you would receive - for very obvious reasons.  From a scientific research perspective - infants are not part of the gold standard, double-blind research studies.  For ethical reasons, it just doesn't happen.  The bulk of research done with infants, are retrospective studies.  Physiotherapists will work with the neck of an infant if he/she does not turn their head in one direction like the other.  This care is done so that mother can have baby breastfeed from both breasts.  Don't see how a chiropractor working on an infant to help their joints and nerves function better isn't any different.  I can tell you that the mothers are happy that their infant can feed from both sides after the infants treatment - and then for some reason their child isn't as fussy and sleeps better.  I'd submit to you that there are times where a "trial of therapy" is worth it when dealing with infants and children.  Its when the interests of the patient are neglected - that is when we all need to demand better!

Chiropractic millionaires.  Yeah, absolutely.  The two reasons a chiropractor will not be a millionaire: 1.  They take part in lifestyle inflation like others do.  2.  They are exceptionally bad chiropractors.  (A chiro making a million per year - I would not have myself or my family treated by someone that treated me like a herd animal.  That smacks of a practitioner of having their own pocket book as greater interest than the care of their patients.) 
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: robartsd on January 29, 2018, 11:35:55 AM
The type you describe are what gives the profession a bad name. A reputable one will spend time with you and tell you that you will know when you need to come back.  Also a reputable chiropractor will stick to their expertise which is not curing cancer, etc.  I have moved a lot so have had to change doctors and all I have been to have done well but I doubt they were millionaires young. No doubt if smart with their $ that they become ones eventually.   My chiropractor in general sees 4 patients an hour. If you need more time he gives it to you.  Some people take less time to adjust depending on what the issue is.
I've had similar experience with chiropractors. At best, I could se a reputable chiropractor serving about 6 patients an hour - assuming the've organized the office well and have good staff handling as much of the paperwork and additional therapy as possible. If somehow they've managed to convince enough patients that they are the absolute best available and can charge $100 per adjustment (more than twice what I pay), they might gross $1 million in a year; but, I'm sure overhead would take a sizable chunch of it and that practice would take many years to build.
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: Dragonswan on January 29, 2018, 11:58:51 AM
You say he's in a HCOL.  Is he in California where he intends to be Chiropractor to the stars?  Then I could see selling his services for 1K a visit as the latest celebrity accessory.  That'll get him to a million a year pretty quick.
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: frugalfoothills on January 30, 2018, 08:26:00 AM
oh yeah, definitely can become a millionaire within a few years.  I went to Chiropractors for about 20 years and they really helped my neck and back pain.  When I moved to Atlanta, there was a Chiropractor every place you look, all of whom graduated from Life College.  Life also offers degrees in nutrition, so it makes sense that just about every Chiropractic grad is also a nutrition expert/enthusiast. 
Life college obviously teaches marketing because every Life Chiropractor that I've gone to had the same exact spiel.  I didn't mind it, it worked for my pain.  The spiel was always that I needed 3-4 times per week, tapering down to 1xweek until I could finally go on maintenance at 1x/month.  It seemed to coincide with what my insurance paid.  Once I realized that most Life DCs couldn't go off script, it started to annoy me.  I knew what I needed and when I needed it -- and some were okay with that and others really couldn't deal with it.   I also found that every DC had their favorite "toys" to loosen you up until they could adjust you -- then you just find a doc whose toys you like.  I finally found one who had a massage therapist on staff (and I could get insurance to pay for massages).  The regular massages taught me that my pain was from muscle tension.  Turns out that ibuprofen immediatlely cures my headaches!  And regular stretching/exercise and hydration avoids neck and headaches all together.  I'm now convinced that chiropractors aren't for me -- I could have saved a lot of money if I had known earlier.

I wasn't planning on disclosing the name of his college but since you tossed it out there, he also graduated from Life. I didn't realize they were also a nutrition/exercise school... makes sense why everything gets tangled together instead of keeping chiropractic treatment separate from all the other stuff.

Like many on this thread have echoed, I have (through my own research over the past year or so) figured out that chiropractors seem to fall into 2 separate schools of thought: new age and old school. Old School chiros seem more interested in treating injuries (example: when I fucked up my back so bad I couldn't walk and no one could help me until I saw a chiropractor), whereas these New Age chiros are interested in selling an idea.... eat well and avoid all traditional western medicine and opt for alternative, holistic methods instead. Eat vegan and get 3 adjustments a week and you'll never get cancer, never have issues, never experience disease or pain. It's a crock.

It's also dangerous because it's a profitable crock and you're preying on people's fears to get them to sign up for treatments that they might not even need. I mean, my BIL once told me that they adjusted a 3 day old infant one time! Get the fuck outta here.

As a chiropractor, I would disagree with this.  Chiropractic has traditionally taken a dogmatic approach, believing that the underlying issue of someone's problem is an "undisputed"/"non-verifiable" entity called the "vertebral subluxation."  (This had a lot to do with the conflict that the AMA had with the chiropractors decades ago.)  This is what you are referring to when you talk about the 'New Age' Chiros.  This has been around since the beginning of Chiropractic in North America.  I would submit to you that a high quality Chiropractor (or any other type of health care practitioner) is one that will take three things into account with every single patient they see:  1. What the patient brings (their need, their beliefs, their situation)  2.  What the scientific body of evidence says about the condition at hand  3.  The Chiropractor's own knowledge & expertise.  All three must be taken into account. 

Regarding treatment of infants, a couple of points:  I would submit to you that treating an infant would look very different than the treatment you would receive - for very obvious reasons.  From a scientific research perspective - infants are not part of the gold standard, double-blind research studies.  For ethical reasons, it just doesn't happen.  The bulk of research done with infants, are retrospective studies.  Physiotherapists will work with the neck of an infant if he/she does not turn their head in one direction like the other.  This care is done so that mother can have baby breastfeed from both breasts.  Don't see how a chiropractor working on an infant to help their joints and nerves function better isn't any different.  I can tell you that the mothers are happy that their infant can feed from both sides after the infants treatment - and then for some reason their child isn't as fussy and sleeps better.  I'd submit to you that there are times where a "trial of therapy" is worth it when dealing with infants and children.  Its when the interests of the patient are neglected - that is when we all need to demand better!

Chiropractic millionaires.  Yeah, absolutely.  The two reasons a chiropractor will not be a millionaire: 1.  They take part in lifestyle inflation like others do.  2.  They are exceptionally bad chiropractors.  (A chiro making a million per year - I would not have myself or my family treated by someone that treated me like a herd animal.  That smacks of a practitioner of having their own pocket book as greater interest than the care of their patients.)

Thanks for the info, it's nice to hear from someone "in the biz." Sounds like re: infant care, you're talking about a situation where the infant presents with an issue (not being able to turn the head side to side, which is impairing its ability to feed.) What about a situation where an infant has no issues, and the chiro is telling a new mother that if she does not start her infant on chiropractic care, they could grow up to have all sorts of health issues... so she believes that by doing this she is essentially ensuring a path to a healthy life for the child? Something about this rubs me the wrong way from an ethical perspective. Feels a little like fear mongering to make a dollar. Would love your thoughts, though.

Also, since you indicated you are a chiropractor, are you familiar with programs like the one I discussed my BIL taking part of? Extracurricular to the university and pumping them full of ideologies about how chiropractic is the save-all for every disease, and teaching them how to graduate and open a practice and become millionaires by selling their services. From what I've read, it sounds like this program isn't specific to his college, but is part of a national network of similar programs at other schools.

Lastly, an update for everyone else re: finances (since that's what started this whole thread.) Sis and BIL came to town yesterday and my sis had a conversation with my father about the guilt she has that he paid for her to get her Master's and she isn't using it. My father said he's not worried about that, but he is worried about the huge amount of debt they're getting themselves in and doesn't understand why they can't get jobs until the practice is over. She said they don't expect to make any real money until August (1 month after they open, which to me seems ambitious...) and that in the meantime, they are going to "pray that God will provide." What could go wrong?
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: ms on January 30, 2018, 08:32:44 AM
... and that in the meantime, they are going to "pray that God will provide." What could go wrong?

Ugh. Nothing makes me grind my teeth more than this phrase.  Good luck to them.
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: Just Joe on January 30, 2018, 08:43:03 AM
You mean wishing for money is a viable answer? I'll have to try that... ;)

I would imagine God probably has bigger fish to fry than two comfortably well off folks who just don't want to get jobs.
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: Beard N Bones on January 30, 2018, 10:39:50 AM
As a chiropractor, I would disagree with this.  Chiropractic has traditionally taken a dogmatic approach, believing that the underlying issue of someone's problem is an "undisputed"/"non-verifiable" entity called the "vertebral subluxation."  (This had a lot to do with the conflict that the AMA had with the chiropractors decades ago.)  This is what you are referring to when you talk about the 'New Age' Chiros.  This has been around since the beginning of Chiropractic in North America.  I would submit to you that a high quality Chiropractor (or any other type of health care practitioner) is one that will take three things into account with every single patient they see:  1. What the patient brings (their need, their beliefs, their situation)  2.  What the scientific body of evidence says about the condition at hand  3.  The Chiropractor's own knowledge & expertise.  All three must be taken into account. 

Regarding treatment of infants, a couple of points:  I would submit to you that treating an infant would look very different than the treatment you would receive - for very obvious reasons.  From a scientific research perspective - infants are not part of the gold standard, double-blind research studies.  For ethical reasons, it just doesn't happen.  The bulk of research done with infants, are retrospective studies.  Physiotherapists will work with the neck of an infant if he/she does not turn their head in one direction like the other.  This care is done so that mother can have baby breastfeed from both breasts.  Don't see how a chiropractor working on an infant to help their joints and nerves function better isn't any different.  I can tell you that the mothers are happy that their infant can feed from both sides after the infants treatment - and then for some reason their child isn't as fussy and sleeps better.  I'd submit to you that there are times where a "trial of therapy" is worth it when dealing with infants and children.  Its when the interests of the patient are neglected - that is when we all need to demand better!

Chiropractic millionaires.  Yeah, absolutely.  The two reasons a chiropractor will not be a millionaire: 1.  They take part in lifestyle inflation like others do.  2.  They are exceptionally bad chiropractors.  (A chiro making a million per year - I would not have myself or my family treated by someone that treated me like a herd animal.  That smacks of a practitioner of having their own pocket book as greater interest than the care of their patients.)

Thanks for the info, it's nice to hear from someone "in the biz." Sounds like re: infant care, you're talking about a situation where the infant presents with an issue (not being able to turn the head side to side, which is impairing its ability to feed.) What about a situation where an infant has no issues, and the chiro is telling a new mother that if she does not start her infant on chiropractic care, they could grow up to have all sorts of health issues... so she believes that by doing this she is essentially ensuring a path to a healthy life for the child? Something about this rubs me the wrong way from an ethical perspective. Feels a little like fear mongering to make a dollar. Would love your thoughts, though.
I'm on the same page as you.  Fear mongering rubs me the wrong way as well - regardless of the age, infant or elderly.  Preventative care, however, is worth while.  That is why my family gets periodic dental and eye check ups, even though we have no associated teeth or eye symptoms.  What kind of preventative/periodic Chiropractic care is reasonable?  Once again, it depends on the individual!  I have some patients that function, feel, and move best with treatment once every 3 weeks (they often refuse to exercise, eat healthy, have high levels of chronic stress, have poor relationships, and generally abuse themselves), others are good with preventive care once a year.  Figuring out what a patient does best with is essential, as everyone is different.  Most people don't take care of themselves and so preventative care doesn't come natural.  I'd guess that is why fear mongering tactics are used. 

Also, since you indicated you are a chiropractor, are you familiar with programs like the one I discussed my BIL taking part of? Extracurricular to the university and pumping them full of ideologies about how chiropractic is the save-all for every disease, and teaching them how to graduate and open a practice and become millionaires by selling their services. From what I've read, it sounds like this program isn't specific to his college, but is part of a national network of similar programs at other schools.
Yes.  They are called "Patient Management" or "Practice Management" courses/programs.  Its essentially learning how to get sales.  I'm not keen on the tactics used.  I'd say that this found more in the US than in other parts of the world.  In Canada (where I practice), these type of programs/systems aren't as common.  I'd go so far as to say that our standards of care are higher here.  (Even higher yet in Switzerland, as Chiropractors are seen as equals to specialists - think ortho surgeons or neurologists.)
I prefer to listen to what the patient wants/needs, treat appropriately (see earlier the 3 previous essentials needed in good care), and educate about health.  My patient's needs are priority #1.   

Lastly, an update for everyone else re: finances (since that's what started this whole thread.) Sis and BIL came to town yesterday and my sis had a conversation with my father about the guilt she has that he paid for her to get her Master's and she isn't using it. My father said he's not worried about that, but he is worried about the huge amount of debt they're getting themselves in and doesn't understand why they can't get jobs until the practice is over. She said they don't expect to make any real money until August (1 month after they open, which to me seems ambitious...) and that in the meantime, they are going to "pray that God will provide." What could go wrong?
I love the optimism.  But financially speaking, it sounds like they are in for some tough lessons.  Namely, if you spend more than you make, you are in deep trouble.  As you've so beautifully described, they are head-in-the-sand, spending like they've already made it.  For most people, having this type of mentality doesn't turn out well for them in the end.  I hope it is different for your sister and BIL and they find success - and I'd be happy if they would be able to escape the financial world-of-hurt they seem to be heading towards.
Question:  WHY ARE THEIR PARENTS ENABLING THEIR BAD FINANCIAL CHOICES?! 
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: frugalecon on January 30, 2018, 10:46:15 AM
... and that in the meantime, they are going to "pray that God will provide." What could go wrong?

Ugh. Nothing makes me grind my teeth more than this phrase.  Good luck to them.

I might have been tempted to snarkily hypothesize that any deity that exists might think he provided via the opportunity to earn a living after finishing a degree program. Or maybe a unicorn will prance up, bearing bags of cash. Or the teller window at Bank of Dad will open for business.
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: TheGrimSqueaker on January 30, 2018, 11:14:38 AM
... and that in the meantime, they are going to "pray that God will provide." What could go wrong?

Ugh. Nothing makes me grind my teeth more than this phrase.  Good luck to them.

I might have been tempted to snarkily hypothesize that any deity that exists might think he provided via the opportunity to earn a living after finishing a degree program. Or maybe a unicorn will prance up, bearing bags of cash. Or the teller window at Bank of Dad will open for business.

I remember hearing a story about a person with that mentality, who relied on divine intervention instead of taking advantage of opportunities that may well have been provided by the same deity.

A man woke up to find out that the river had flooded and was washing away his house. He climbed to the roof to avoid drowning. Being a man of intense faith, he prayed to his deity for aid as the water rose higher and higher.

Along came a person clinging to a log. "Come with me," said the other survivor, "and we can kick toward the shore and escape."

"No," said the man, "My deity will save me."

"Suit yourself," said the swimmer, and continued moving toward the shore. The water rose higher, and soon the roof was covered and the man was in water up to his waist. Along came a neighbor in a boat who invited the man to jump in with the neighbor and family.

"No thanks," said the man, "My deity will save me." So the neighbors piloted the boat away in search of a safe place, rescuing people and animals as they went.

Finally the man was in water up to his neck and felt the house beneath him crumble. He swam and was able to keep his head above water. A military helicopter appeared, and a rope ladder spilled out of it. "Take hold of me," said the soldier who descended the ladder, "and the helicopter will take you to dry land." Again, the man of faith refused. So the helicopter team left.

"When will my deity rescue me?" The man of faith mused as he felt his strength begin to leave him. His head eventually slipped under the water, and he drowned.

Upon dying, the man of faith was pleased and gratified to find out that he'd chosen the right religion. His deity and glorious afterlife were awaiting him. "Yet," said his deity, "I notice that you are troubled by something. What is it?"

"Only this," said the man of faith. "All my life I believed in You and lived according to Your wishes as well as I could. But in my time of distress I called upon You for aid, and although I am in no way disappointed in Your kingdom or in meeting You in person, I am wondering why You allowed me to drown instead of rescuing me, particularly given that the atheists were wrong and You have been real this whole time."

"What are you talking about?" His deity answered. "I sent you a log, a boat, and a helicopter."
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: frugalfoothills on January 30, 2018, 12:10:31 PM
... and that in the meantime, they are going to "pray that God will provide." What could go wrong?

Ugh. Nothing makes me grind my teeth more than this phrase.  Good luck to them.

I might have been tempted to snarkily hypothesize that any deity that exists might think he provided via the opportunity to earn a living after finishing a degree program. Or maybe a unicorn will prance up, bearing bags of cash. Or the teller window at Bank of Dad will open for business.

I remember hearing a story about a person with that mentality, who relied on divine intervention instead of taking advantage of opportunities that may well have been provided by the same deity.

A man woke up to find out that the river had flooded and was washing away his house. He climbed to the roof to avoid drowning. Being a man of intense faith, he prayed to his deity for aid as the water rose higher and higher.

Along came a person clinging to a log. "Come with me," said the other survivor, "and we can kick toward the shore and escape."

"No," said the man, "My deity will save me."

"Suit yourself," said the swimmer, and continued moving toward the shore. The water rose higher, and soon the roof was covered and the man was in water up to his waist. Along came a neighbor in a boat who invited the man to jump in with the neighbor and family.

"No thanks," said the man, "My deity will save me." So the neighbors piloted the boat away in search of a safe place, rescuing people and animals as they went.

Finally the man was in water up to his neck and felt the house beneath him crumble. He swam and was able to keep his head above water. A military helicopter appeared, and a rope ladder spilled out of it. "Take hold of me," said the soldier who descended the ladder, "and the helicopter will take you to dry land." Again, the man of faith refused. So the helicopter team left.

"When will my deity rescue me?" The man of faith mused as he felt his strength begin to leave him. His head eventually slipped under the water, and he drowned.

Upon dying, the man of faith was pleased and gratified to find out that he'd chosen the right religion. His deity and glorious afterlife were awaiting him. "Yet," said his deity, "I notice that you are troubled by something. What is it?"

"Only this," said the man of faith. "All my life I believed in You and lived according to Your wishes as well as I could. But in my time of distress I called upon You for aid, and although I am in no way disappointed in Your kingdom or in meeting You in person, I am wondering why You allowed me to drown instead of rescuing me, particularly given that the atheists were wrong and You have been real this whole time."

"What are you talking about?" His deity answered. "I sent you a log, a boat, and a helicopter."


My father used this exact story in his response to her, how funny. Well, this story with a couple variations... either way, message was the same. Didn't seem to take root.

Just so everyone is aware: my parents haven't contributed a dime to this endeavor. They paid for their wedding last summer and that's the last money they will be spending on these two. It's HIS parents who are currently bankrolling them... the business loan is a personal loan from his father. Apparently his father is the one that encouraged them to borrow an extra $30-$40k on top of what they felt they needed to open the office to account for "personal expenses," so obviously the questionable decision-making starts from the top down here. My family, on the other hand, is super confused and concerned about this.

Also from the FIL (lender of the cash): he advised my BIL that "any extra you have left over in the loan can be put toward your student loan payments!" I fail to see how using borrowed money from FIL to pay for borrowed money to the government is not still BORROWING MONEY. Doesn't matter whether you owe dad or Uncle Sam, you still owe SOMEONE...
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: MgoSam on January 30, 2018, 01:30:22 PM


Also from the FIL (lender of the cash): he advised my BIL that "any extra you have left over in the loan can be put toward your student loan payments!" I fail to see how using borrowed money from FIL to pay for borrowed money to the government is not still BORROWING MONEY. Doesn't matter whether you owe dad or Uncle Sam, you still owe SOMEONE...

I've found that people like this are the type that are so used to kicking the can down the road.

A few years ago I spent Thanksgiving with one of my best friend's family, they live in a rural part of the state that is a few hours drive and I loved their house. A year later I was invited back and by this point the parents had decided that I was more or less 'family,' because they were much more free with their words. I heard from the mother about how they still owed a ton on their houses (they are both in their 60s and owned the home for 30+ years) because they keep re-financing to pay for new toys and constant renovations.
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: Apple_Tango on January 30, 2018, 01:48:43 PM
Something I don’t understand is why, even though they won’t be “rolling in it” until August, your sister doesn’t look for work now? She’s not the chiropractor, right? What does she plan on doing while her husband is at work? Seems weird.
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: eliza on February 01, 2018, 03:28:24 PM

My father used this exact story in his response to her, how funny. Well, this story with a couple variations... either way, message was the same. Didn't seem to take root.

Just so everyone is aware: my parents haven't contributed a dime to this endeavor. They paid for their wedding last summer and that's the last money they will be spending on these two. It's HIS parents who are currently bankrolling them... the business loan is a personal loan from his father. Apparently his father is the one that encouraged them to borrow an extra $30-$40k on top of what they felt they needed to open the office to account for "personal expenses," so obviously the questionable decision-making starts from the top down here. My family, on the other hand, is super confused and concerned about this.

Also from the FIL (lender of the cash): he advised my BIL that "any extra you have left over in the loan can be put toward your student loan payments!" I fail to see how using borrowed money from FIL to pay for borrowed money to the government is not still BORROWING MONEY. Doesn't matter whether you owe dad or Uncle Sam, you still owe SOMEONE...

Is it possible that his parents are actually just giving them the money, not lending it to them with the expectation that it be repaid?  Because otherwise that doesn't make any sense.  Although, nothing about this is particularly logical, so who knows.

As someone who also has a super-spendypass sibling with a super-spendypass partner, I sympathize.  Don't make the mistake of getting roped in financially --- my sister and BIL are at least on a path to make lots of money ---- they'll never have any money because they spend every dollar they get as soon as they get it, but at least they'll support themselves.   

I made the mistake of lending them $$$$ to help them purchase a house.  I'm getting paid back on time and with interest according to our loan agreement, but it still does alter the relationship a bit.  Right after they closed on their new place, my sister mentioned that they ended up not needing to bring as much to the closing as they thought, so they were going to do a sizeable pay down on their loan balance to me.  Two days later, my BIL came home with a brand-new high-end Harley and no further talk of a pay down was mentioned.   I can't really judge because they are paying as agreed and I decided when I lent them the money that I was willing to lose it if they defaulted (although it would severely harm our relationship).  But still, I'm being even more judge-y than I normally would be of their ridiculous choices.
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: TheGrimSqueaker on February 01, 2018, 03:51:08 PM

My father used this exact story in his response to her, how funny. Well, this story with a couple variations... either way, message was the same. Didn't seem to take root.

Just so everyone is aware: my parents haven't contributed a dime to this endeavor. They paid for their wedding last summer and that's the last money they will be spending on these two. It's HIS parents who are currently bankrolling them... the business loan is a personal loan from his father. Apparently his father is the one that encouraged them to borrow an extra $30-$40k on top of what they felt they needed to open the office to account for "personal expenses," so obviously the questionable decision-making starts from the top down here. My family, on the other hand, is super confused and concerned about this.

Also from the FIL (lender of the cash): he advised my BIL that "any extra you have left over in the loan can be put toward your student loan payments!" I fail to see how using borrowed money from FIL to pay for borrowed money to the government is not still BORROWING MONEY. Doesn't matter whether you owe dad or Uncle Sam, you still owe SOMEONE...

Is it possible that his parents are actually just giving them the money, not lending it to them with the expectation that it be repaid?  Because otherwise that doesn't make any sense.  Although, nothing about this is particularly logical, so who knows.

As someone who also has a super-spendypass sibling with a super-spendypass partner, I sympathize.  Don't make the mistake of getting roped in financially --- my sister and BIL are at least on a path to make lots of money ---- they'll never have any money because they spend every dollar they get as soon as they get it, but at least they'll support themselves.   

I made the mistake of lending them $$$$ to help them purchase a house.  I'm getting paid back on time and with interest according to our loan agreement, but it still does alter the relationship a bit.  Right after they closed on their new place, my sister mentioned that they ended up not needing to bring as much to the closing as they thought, so they were going to do a sizeable pay down on their loan balance to me.  Two days later, my BIL came home with a brand-new high-end Harley and no further talk of a pay down was mentioned.   I can't really judge because they are paying as agreed and I decided when I lent them the money that I was willing to lose it if they defaulted (although it would severely harm our relationship).  But still, I'm being even more judge-y than I normally would be of their ridiculous choices.

It's because you've got a dog in the fight, so to speak. You've put money into their household, so now you have a personal interest in whether they stay afloat. That makes their spending your business, although it wasn't before. So naturally you will be more alert to irresponsible spending from them than you were before.

Part of your response is due to their failure to follow through on the early pay-down they were talking about. Being promised something and not getting it is irksome. If they'd never mentioned a pay-down to begin with I doubt the urge to judge them for getting a Harley would have crossed your mind. But as matters stand it's a legitimate (but minor) gripe.
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: frugalfoothills on February 04, 2018, 12:24:28 PM
Saw the soon to be millionaires yesterday as they were hosting a party for some friends who are about to make an international move. Overheard my BIL telling a family friend about 3 new Bluetooth speakers he bought for the party. Said he figures they’ll use them in the office so he called it a “business expense.” $200 bucks each!
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: Apple_Tango on February 04, 2018, 05:50:45 PM
...that’s not how taxes work!! You can deduct electronics for business use as long as they were reasonable and necessary.  Lol plus if you split an item for personal and business use, you can only deduct a partial amount of it on taxes, not all of it. And this guy is going to run a million dollar a year business? Haha maybe he’s just planning on deducting the $150,000 loan as a business expense! Genius!
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: frugalfoothills on February 05, 2018, 03:05:36 PM
Great news! My sis and BIL have been doing a little shopping for their (rented-with-business-loan-money) house! They scored a cedar trunk from 1910 that they feel will really make their entryway more inviting. It was only $200! Sister also took a trip to Marshall's this weekend for some throw pillows, blankets, and bedding for their SECOND guest bed (of which my sister's FIL paid for a brand new mattress.) Bedding and such was at least $100. But hey, who's counting?

Mind you, I received the info about the 1910 chest via a text message from 10am today. Monday at 10am, a time most normal people are at work. My sister texts me from her sofa where she's enjoying a "bulletproof coffee" (organic coffee, MCT oil, grass fed butter...) and an organic acai bowl, all ingredients purchased from Whole Foods using business-loan-money, of course. Text said "Enjoying my morning and admiring my new chest!" Apparently my BIL had just gotten back from the gym and was laying down to take a well-deserved 2 hour nap.

Am I living in the Twilight Zone?
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: KodeBlue on February 05, 2018, 03:12:06 PM
Monday at 10am, a time most normal people are at work. My sister texts me from her sofa where she's enjoying a "bulletproof coffee" (organic coffee, MCT oil, grass fed butter...) and an organic acai bowl, all ingredients purchased from Whole Foods using business-loan-money, of course. Text said "Enjoying my morning and admiring my new chest!" Apparently my BIL had just gotten back from the gym and was laying down to take a well-deserved 2 hour nap.

Am I living in the Twilight Zone?
Wow. Apparently I'm doing it all wrong.
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: jinga nation on February 05, 2018, 03:18:09 PM
"Enjoying my morning and admiring my new chest!"
Spoiler: show
What size did she get?
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: Beard N Bones on February 05, 2018, 03:54:26 PM
Great news! My sis and BIL have been doing a little shopping for their (rented-with-business-loan-money) house! They scored a cedar trunk from 1910 that they feel will really make their entryway more inviting. It was only $200! Sister also took a trip to Marshall's this weekend for some throw pillows, blankets, and bedding for their SECOND guest bed (of which my sister's FIL paid for a brand new mattress.) Bedding and such was at least $100. But hey, who's counting?

Mind you, I received the info about the 1910 chest via a text message from 10am today. Monday at 10am, a time most normal people are at work. My sister texts me from her sofa where she's enjoying a "bulletproof coffee" (organic coffee, MCT oil, grass fed butter...) and an organic acai bowl, all ingredients purchased from Whole Foods using business-loan-money, of course. Text said "Enjoying my morning and admiring my new chest!" Apparently my BIL had just gotten back from the gym and was laying down to take a well-deserved 2 hour nap.

Am I living in the Twilight Zone?

Ohhh boy.  Sounds like they are in for a huge dose of real-life in the next few years. 
Is the Twilight Zone like watching a train-wreck happen in slow motion? 
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: ShoulderThingThatGoesUp on February 05, 2018, 07:22:58 PM
Great news! My sis and BIL have been doing a little shopping for their (rented-with-business-loan-money) house! They scored a cedar trunk from 1910 that they feel will really make their entryway more inviting. It was only $200! Sister also took a trip to Marshall's this weekend for some throw pillows, blankets, and bedding for their SECOND guest bed (of which my sister's FIL paid for a brand new mattress.) Bedding and such was at least $100. But hey, who's counting?

Mind you, I received the info about the 1910 chest via a text message from 10am today. Monday at 10am, a time most normal people are at work. My sister texts me from her sofa where she's enjoying a "bulletproof coffee" (organic coffee, MCT oil, grass fed butter...) and an organic acai bowl, all ingredients purchased from Whole Foods using business-loan-money, of course. Text said "Enjoying my morning and admiring my new chest!" Apparently my BIL had just gotten back from the gym and was laying down to take a well-deserved 2 hour nap.

Am I living in the Twilight Zone?

All I can think about is "Homer, I'm not the one that butters your coffee."

What in the world?
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: Step37 on February 05, 2018, 11:10:46 PM
Holy crap. I can see why you’re concerned. I have a relative who’s a chiropractor (and an anti-Vaccer - the person who made the Venn diagram comment really made me laugh), so this is particularly interesting. The relative appears to do quite well (his wife is also a CP), but I’d be pretty shocked if they were making a million a year. It’s a busy, established clinic, but they have fairly limited hours. I get the sense that they are smart about money and work/life balance. I just hope none of their children fall ill from a preventable disease... :-/
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: Roe on February 06, 2018, 02:30:25 AM
Great news! My sis and BIL have been doing a little shopping for their (rented-with-business-loan-money) house! They scored a cedar trunk from 1910 that they feel will really make their entryway more inviting. It was only $200! Sister also took a trip to Marshall's this weekend for some throw pillows, blankets, and bedding for their SECOND guest bed (of which my sister's FIL paid for a brand new mattress.) Bedding and such was at least $100. But hey, who's counting?

Mind you, I received the info about the 1910 chest via a text message from 10am today. Monday at 10am, a time most normal people are at work. My sister texts me from her sofa where she's enjoying a "bulletproof coffee" (organic coffee, MCT oil, grass fed butter...) and an organic acai bowl, all ingredients purchased from Whole Foods using business-loan-money, of course. Text said "Enjoying my morning and admiring my new chest!" Apparently my BIL had just gotten back from the gym and was laying down to take a well-deserved 2 hour nap.

Am I living in the Twilight Zone?

That sounds more like an instagram post than a text message. Or is this how people communicate now?
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: Sibley on February 06, 2018, 10:42:28 AM
Holy crap. I can see why you’re concerned. I have a relative who’s a chiropractor (and an anti-Vaccer - the person who made the Venn diagram comment really made me laugh), so this is particularly interesting. The relative appears to do quite well (his wife is also a CP), but I’d be pretty shocked if they were making a million a year. It’s a busy, established clinic, but they have fairly limited hours. I get the sense that they are smart about money and work/life balance. I just hope none of their children fall ill from a preventable disease... :-/

Whereas, and I'm sorry, but I hope those children DO fall ill from a preventable disease. Because that's probably the only way the idiot anti-vaxxers are going to get some sense knocked into them. A round of mild to moderate measles causing 2 months of quarantine sounds like a perfect punishment for putting others at risk because you don't want to take advantage of one of the most important and impactful public health advances in history (hygiene did more, but vaccines are way up there).
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: Beard N Bones on February 06, 2018, 11:57:40 AM
Holy crap. I can see why you’re concerned. I have a relative who’s a chiropractor (and an anti-Vaccer - the person who made the Venn diagram comment really made me laugh), so this is particularly interesting. The relative appears to do quite well (his wife is also a CP), but I’d be pretty shocked if they were making a million a year. It’s a busy, established clinic, but they have fairly limited hours. I get the sense that they are smart about money and work/life balance. I just hope none of their children fall ill from a preventable disease... :-/

Whereas, and I'm sorry, but I hope those children DO fall ill from a preventable disease. Because that's probably the only way the idiot anti-vaxxers are going to get some sense knocked into them. A round of mild to moderate measles causing 2 months of quarantine sounds like a perfect punishment for putting others at risk because you don't want to take advantage of one of the most important and impactful public health advances in history (hygiene did more, but vaccines are way up there).

I find this comment to be extremely inappropriate, rude and uncalled for.  Why are you wishing harm on anyone?!

It would be the same if someone wished that you had a heart attack, stroke, a mental issue (like alzheimers, depression, anxiety, or cancer) because you never got 30 minutes of moderate/vigorous exercise/day, or ate 5 servings of fruits and vegetables/day. (As everyone knows that exercise and a healthy diet prevents many chronic diseases.  And parents who are inactive, sedentary and don't eat healthy, are more likely to have kids that are also inactive, sedentary and eat poorly.)  Do you exercise daily and always eat healthy Sibley?

Your approach to this topic helps no-one Sibley.
[FWIW - My family and I have all been vaccinated.]
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: BrightFIRE on February 06, 2018, 12:32:45 PM
Whereas, and I'm sorry, but I hope those children DO fall ill from a preventable disease. Because that's probably the only way the idiot anti-vaxxers are going to get some sense knocked into them. A round of mild to moderate measles causing 2 months of quarantine sounds like a perfect punishment for putting others at risk because you don't want to take advantage of one of the most important and impactful public health advances in history (hygiene did more, but vaccines are way up there).

I find this comment to be extremely inappropriate, rude and uncalled for.  Why are you wishing harm on anyone?!

It would be the same if someone wished that you had a heart attack, stroke, a mental issue (like alzheimers, depression, anxiety, or cancer) because you never got 30 minutes of moderate/vigorous exercise/day, or ate 5 servings of fruits and vegetables/day. (As everyone knows that exercise and a healthy diet prevents many chronic diseases.  And parents who are inactive, sedentary and don't eat healthy, are more likely to have kids that are also inactive, sedentary and eat poorly.)  Do you exercise daily and always eat healthy Sibley?

Your approach to this topic helps no-one Sibley.
[FWIW - My family and I have all been vaccinated.]

Unless Sibley has amazing powers, her "approach" will not affect anyone, unlike anti-vaxxers, whose approach literally puts the lives of others at risk. This is why your indignant comparison is totally wrong: Sibley not excercising and eating right would only affect Sibley. The fall in vaccination rates has affected MILLIONS worldwide.

I can understand his/her frustration - you certainly don't want anyone dead, but if the children fell ill, you'd hope their parents would come to their senses. Unfortunately, it would probably cause them to double down, because humans are great at lying to themselves.
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: Davnasty on February 06, 2018, 01:25:35 PM
Great news! My sis and BIL have been doing a little shopping for their (rented-with-business-loan-money) house! They scored a cedar trunk from 1910 that they feel will really make their entryway more inviting. It was only $200! Sister also took a trip to Marshall's this weekend for some throw pillows, blankets, and bedding for their SECOND guest bed (of which my sister's FIL paid for a brand new mattress.) Bedding and such was at least $100. But hey, who's counting?

Mind you, I received the info about the 1910 chest via a text message from 10am today. Monday at 10am, a time most normal people are at work. My sister texts me from her sofa where she's enjoying a "bulletproof coffee" (organic coffee, MCT oil, grass fed butter...) and an organic acai bowl, all ingredients purchased from Whole Foods using business-loan-money, of course. Text said "Enjoying my morning and admiring my new chest!" Apparently my BIL had just gotten back from the gym and was laying down to take a well-deserved 2 hour nap.

Am I living in the Twilight Zone?

Based on this description of their lives I'm assuming these people must be FIRE'd? /s

Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: Beard N Bones on February 06, 2018, 01:49:25 PM
Whereas, and I'm sorry, but I hope those children DO fall ill from a preventable disease. Because that's probably the only way the idiot anti-vaxxers are going to get some sense knocked into them. A round of mild to moderate measles causing 2 months of quarantine sounds like a perfect punishment for putting others at risk because you don't want to take advantage of one of the most important and impactful public health advances in history (hygiene did more, but vaccines are way up there).

I find this comment to be extremely inappropriate, rude and uncalled for.  Why are you wishing harm on anyone?!

It would be the same if someone wished that you had a heart attack, stroke, a mental issue (like alzheimers, depression, anxiety, or cancer) because you never got 30 minutes of moderate/vigorous exercise/day, or ate 5 servings of fruits and vegetables/day. (As everyone knows that exercise and a healthy diet prevents many chronic diseases.  And parents who are inactive, sedentary and don't eat healthy, are more likely to have kids that are also inactive, sedentary and eat poorly.)  Do you exercise daily and always eat healthy Sibley?

Your approach to this topic helps no-one Sibley.
[FWIW - My family and I have all been vaccinated.]

Unless Sibley has amazing powers, her "approach" will not affect anyone, unlike anti-vaxxers, whose approach literally puts the lives of others at risk. This is why your indignant comparison is totally wrong: Sibley not excercising and eating right would only affect Sibley. The fall in vaccination rates has affected MILLIONS worldwide.

I can understand his/her frustration - you certainly don't want anyone dead, but if the children fell ill, you'd hope their parents would come to their senses. Unfortunately, it would probably cause them to double down, because humans are great at lying to themselves.

(I'm not arguing the idea that everyone should be vaccinated.  That is a huge topic that many people have very emotional responses to, and opinions of.  But I'll repeat it again for you BrightFIRE because apparently you didn't understand what I said; or you as well, wish harm on anti-vaxxers...)

Wishing harm on someone else because they increase the relative risk of harm done to others is not the way to make positive change.

I used an example of someone's bad health affecting the health of their children.  I can show evidence that would support this claim.  But you don't like that example.  Is it too personal an example?  Let me use another example...
Do you wish a trauma induced paraplegia on someone who drinks and then drives because they drastically increase the risk of other motorists getting physically harmed?  I think only a sick individual would think like that.  Why do pro-vaxxers think it is okay to think like this about anti-vaxxers?  Don't you think there is a better way (a more mature, adult-like way) of making positive change? 
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: SwordGuy on February 06, 2018, 02:35:03 PM

Do you wish a trauma induced paraplegia on someone who drinks and then drives because they drastically increase the risk of other motorists getting physically harmed?  I think only a sick individual would think like that.  Why do pro-vaxxers think it is okay to think like this about anti-vaxxers?  Don't you think there is a better way (a more mature, adult-like way) of making positive change?

That would be, um, facts and logic, which anti-vaxxers appear to be impervious to.

As for his example, he wished for something seriously annoying, not something permanently crippling.   Let's not mix apples and oranges in our counter examples.

A more apt counter-example would be wishing a drunk driver would crash their vehicle on their own property into their own fence and scare some sense into themselves in the process, hurting no one else and only giving them some painful bruises and contusions.
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: Sibley on February 06, 2018, 03:37:22 PM
Whereas, and I'm sorry, but I hope those children DO fall ill from a preventable disease. Because that's probably the only way the idiot anti-vaxxers are going to get some sense knocked into them. A round of mild to moderate measles causing 2 months of quarantine sounds like a perfect punishment for putting others at risk because you don't want to take advantage of one of the most important and impactful public health advances in history (hygiene did more, but vaccines are way up there).

I find this comment to be extremely inappropriate, rude and uncalled for.  Why are you wishing harm on anyone?!

It would be the same if someone wished that you had a heart attack, stroke, a mental issue (like alzheimers, depression, anxiety, or cancer) because you never got 30 minutes of moderate/vigorous exercise/day, or ate 5 servings of fruits and vegetables/day. (As everyone knows that exercise and a healthy diet prevents many chronic diseases.  And parents who are inactive, sedentary and don't eat healthy, are more likely to have kids that are also inactive, sedentary and eat poorly.)  Do you exercise daily and always eat healthy Sibley?

Your approach to this topic helps no-one Sibley.
[FWIW - My family and I have all been vaccinated.]

Unless Sibley has amazing powers, her "approach" will not affect anyone, unlike anti-vaxxers, whose approach literally puts the lives of others at risk. This is why your indignant comparison is totally wrong: Sibley not excercising and eating right would only affect Sibley. The fall in vaccination rates has affected MILLIONS worldwide.

I can understand his/her frustration - you certainly don't want anyone dead, but if the children fell ill, you'd hope their parents would come to their senses. Unfortunately, it would probably cause them to double down, because humans are great at lying to themselves.

@Beard N Bones , I have a habit of thinking at a population level. You, clearly, think at an individual level. This isn't wrong, but it is very different and tends to result in exactly the reaction you had when you run into someone who thinks at a population level - disgust and fear. Because if I don't care about a couple of children, then clearly I don't care about you. Which is terrifying. It's ok, it's normal, but you need to understand.

At a population level, low vaccination rates are disastrous, and individuals don't matter - it's aggregate only. At an individual level, each individual matters. Even a handful of people getting sick is huge in that mind set. If you're looking at a whole population, who cares if a few sickly individuals die? It may even be good for the population as a whole because whatever's causing them to be sickly and weak is not being passed down to future generations. In the long view, at a population level, we are FAR better off if a small number of people get sick and remind the rest of the group WHY we have vaccines. The alternative is eventually a pandemic that kills millions and sickens hundreds of millions.

You can apply this population-level thinking to a lot of situations. It boils down to the classic ethical dilemma - do you flip the switch to move the train to kill the baby but spare the larger number of people on the other track? I fall onto the side of saving the larger number of people than the 1. Doesn't mean I won't mourn the 1, but in the abstract, I view 1 death to be a lessor tragedy than 100 deaths.

There have been cases where anti-vaxxers DID change their minds because their children got sick, and they've gone on to vaccinate as recommended. As a population, we've forgotten the great epidemics and pandemics of the past (at least in the US). I do not remember when polio was sweeping through the country, killing and paralyzing. I don't remember measles, or mumps, or whooping cough. I'm not old enough. Hardly anyone today is. The problem is that because we don't have that daily reminder, we also can forget why it matters and other, lessor concerns will dictate the decision. In other places that still have these diseases, mothers are desperate to get their children vaccinated. Because they know the cost if they don't - death, disability, deformity.

So yes, it would be better for the population if a handful of children get the measles to remind everyone else of the danger. If I pull it down to an individual level, I don't want the child(ren) to get sick. (I'd be ok with the mother getting sick though to punish her for her stupidity, but that's different, she's responsible.)

And no, I don't have amazing powers. Wish I did, cause that would be cool. :)
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: Zamboni on February 06, 2018, 04:00:01 PM
The hurling of insults at you for your "unhealthy ways" is just a coping mechanism. Press the "ignore" button on her and get on with your awesomeness.

Someone I know wanted to pay thousands of dollars to get their child "brain balance" therapy from a Chiropractor. Of course, she is anti-vax. So maybe there are enough stupid people for your family members to actually become millionaires? Certainly election results support this theory.

I will be sorry when another too-young-to-be-fully vaccinated baby gets whooping cough and dies thanks to the anti-vax dumbshits spreading preventable lethal diseases (we just got a letter that a teen at my kid's gym has whooping cough  . . .  who gets that anymore!?) If I had recently taken my infant to a game there, you better believe I would go apeshit on those parents. But it wouldn't matter, because I really think the anti-vax crowd is just too stupid to bother with at this point.

 
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: Beard N Bones on February 07, 2018, 08:22:27 AM
Whereas, and I'm sorry, but I hope those children DO fall ill from a preventable disease. Because that's probably the only way the idiot anti-vaxxers are going to get some sense knocked into them. A round of mild to moderate measles causing 2 months of quarantine sounds like a perfect punishment for putting others at risk because you don't want to take advantage of one of the most important and impactful public health advances in history (hygiene did more, but vaccines are way up there).

I find this comment to be extremely inappropriate, rude and uncalled for.  Why are you wishing harm on anyone?!

It would be the same if someone wished that you had a heart attack, stroke, a mental issue (like alzheimers, depression, anxiety, or cancer) because you never got 30 minutes of moderate/vigorous exercise/day, or ate 5 servings of fruits and vegetables/day. (As everyone knows that exercise and a healthy diet prevents many chronic diseases.  And parents who are inactive, sedentary and don't eat healthy, are more likely to have kids that are also inactive, sedentary and eat poorly.)  Do you exercise daily and always eat healthy Sibley?

Your approach to this topic helps no-one Sibley.
[FWIW - My family and I have all been vaccinated.]

Unless Sibley has amazing powers, her "approach" will not affect anyone, unlike anti-vaxxers, whose approach literally puts the lives of others at risk. This is why your indignant comparison is totally wrong: Sibley not excercising and eating right would only affect Sibley. The fall in vaccination rates has affected MILLIONS worldwide.

I can understand his/her frustration - you certainly don't want anyone dead, but if the children fell ill, you'd hope their parents would come to their senses. Unfortunately, it would probably cause them to double down, because humans are great at lying to themselves.

@Beard N Bones , I have a habit of thinking at a population level. You, clearly, think at an individual level.
That is an incorrect assumption.
Once again, please note that myself, my wife, and all 3 of my kids have been vaccinated.
I'm not going to delve into the benefits of vaccination - as you are completely right, they have been shown to be very effective in preventing many infectious diseases.
But it seems you've missed my point...
Quote
This isn't wrong, but it is very different and tends to result in exactly the reaction you had when you run into someone who thinks at a population level - disgust and fear. Because if I don't care about a couple of children, then clearly I don't care about you. Which is terrifying. It's ok, it's normal, but you need to understand.

At a population level, low vaccination rates are disastrous, and individuals don't matter - it's aggregate only. At an individual level, each individual matters. Even a handful of people getting sick is huge in that mind set. If you're looking at a whole population, who cares if a few sickly individuals die? It may even be good for the population as a whole because whatever's causing them to be sickly and weak is not being passed down to future generations. In the long view, at a population level, we are FAR better off if a small number of people get sick and remind the rest of the group WHY we have vaccines. The alternative is eventually a pandemic that kills millions and sickens hundreds of millions.

You can apply this population-level thinking to a lot of situations. It boils down to the classic ethical dilemma - do you flip the switch to move the train to kill the baby but spare the larger number of people on the other track? I fall onto the side of saving the larger number of people than the 1. Doesn't mean I won't mourn the 1, but in the abstract, I view 1 death to be a lessor tragedy than 100 deaths.

There have been cases where anti-vaxxers DID change their minds because their children got sick, and they've gone on to vaccinate as recommended. As a population, we've forgotten the great epidemics and pandemics of the past (at least in the US). I do not remember when polio was sweeping through the country, killing and paralyzing. I don't remember measles, or mumps, or whooping cough. I'm not old enough. Hardly anyone today is. The problem is that because we don't have that daily reminder, we also can forget why it matters and other, lessor concerns will dictate the decision. In other places that still have these diseases, mothers are desperate to get their children vaccinated. Because they know the cost if they don't - death, disability, deformity.

So yes, it would be better for the population if a handful of children get the measles to remind everyone else of the danger. If I pull it down to an individual level, I don't want the child(ren) to get sick. (I'd be ok with the mother getting sick though to punish her for her stupidity, but that's different, she's responsible.)

And no, I don't have amazing powers. Wish I did, cause that would be cool. :)
My point is simple.  Wishing harm on anyone isn't necessary - whether it is one or many affected - even when you are obviously right.  You approach this situation is like my 4 year old son.  When his siblings wrong him, he will react in kind.  When he gets hit, when he gets butthurt b/c of what his sister said, when he refuses to vegetables put in front of him because his taste buds react badly to them, when he is upset because it is his bedtime and he is tired - he will want to hit back, strike back, whine, shout and pout.  My son tells me the same thing as you have - I can only react this way or that way in this situation.  What you fail to recognize, is that there is an ADULT and GROWN-UP way to dealing with conflict.  Striking back physically, or with words, or with a poor attitude, doesn't help the situation at all. 

How many people have you helped see the light and vaccinate themselves and their kids using the "I-hope-you-get-punished" approach?  Yeah, that's what I thought.  People don't respond well to that. 
Grow up Sibley.  I get the impression you are 32 going on 5.
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: Davnasty on February 07, 2018, 09:49:31 AM
My point is simple.  Wishing harm on anyone isn't necessary - whether it is one or many affected - even when you are obviously right.  You approach this situation is like my 4 year old son.  When his siblings wrong him, he will react in kind.  When he gets hit, when he gets butthurt b/c of what his sister said, when he refuses to vegetables put in front of him because his taste buds react badly to them, when he is upset because it is his bedtime and he is tired - he will want to hit back, strike back, whine, shout and pout.  My son tells me the same thing as you have - I can only react this way or that way in this situation.  What you fail to recognize, is that there is an ADULT and GROWN-UP way to dealing with conflict.  Striking back physically, or with words, or with a poor attitude, doesn't help the situation at all. 

How many people have you helped see the light and vaccinate themselves and their kids using the "I-hope-you-get-punished" approach?  Yeah, that's what I thought.  People don't respond well to that. 
Grow up Sibley.  I get the impression you are 32 going on 5.
I don't think the idea is to convince anyone by saying "I hope your kid gets sick". The convincing part for anti-vaxxer parents would be the actual illness. And I agree, if in a theoretical situation where one kid getting sick encourages their parents to have them vaccinated for other more serious diseases or convinces other anti-vaxxer parents to change their ways, it would be worth it. If one illness ultimately prevents another more serious illness or multiple future illnesses I see that as a positive outcome. In fact I think it's safe to say the lack of incidence of these preventable disease is exactly why some parents have decided not to take them seriously. The occasional sick kid may be what it takes to push vaccination rates towards 100%. If PSA's could get the same result then of course that would be preferable.

I never saw Sibley's comment as being hateful or hoping for some sort of revenge on stupid people.

So yes, it would be better for the population if a handful of children get the measles to remind everyone else of the danger. If I pull it down to an individual level, I don't want the child(ren) to get sick. (I'd be ok with the mother getting sick though to punish her for her stupidity, but that's different, she's responsible.)

Well, not the first comment at least...

Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: RidetheRain on February 07, 2018, 11:59:59 AM
I don't know if reminding people of the danger would really work. Some of these vaccines are relatively recent and there are plenty of people who remember what it was like. They just view the vaccine as worse. Imagined danger is terrifying when you don't know it's imaginary.

For example, here is my vaccine fear that I hope I get over by the time I have children:
I was born prior to the introduction of the chickenpox vaccine and consider that to be a "normal" childhood illness that everyone goes through. I had it and my brothers had it and my friends had it. It was uncomfortable but not life-threatening as a child. My uncle, however, got it older while he was an adult. This is much more dangerous and he was in the hospital for weeks. My ingrained life lesson? Everyone should get chicken pox as a child so that they are safe from it as adults.

Now I see plenty of children and even adults that have never had chickenpox and I worry that the vaccine will "wear off" and expose them as adults. It's irrational and I have zero proof that would happen, but I think about it every time someone mentions the chickenpox vaccine. When I have children and have the question put to me I am thankful that I have a vocal pharmacist as a sister in law to beat me over the head with medical books until I listen to reason. I'm not sure I could pull myself from the fear on my own.
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: Prairie Stash on February 07, 2018, 12:08:14 PM
Back on topic, how many of us had to google MCT-oil? The Bulletproof part is new to me, it almost deserves its own thread of shame.

Are they combining Chiropractic care with Fad diets? Please tell me they have a shop at their new store selling crystals too.
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: Sibley on February 07, 2018, 03:18:18 PM
My point is simple.  Wishing harm on anyone isn't necessary - whether it is one or many affected - even when you are obviously right.  You approach this situation is like my 4 year old son.  When his siblings wrong him, he will react in kind.  When he gets hit, when he gets butthurt b/c of what his sister said, when he refuses to vegetables put in front of him because his taste buds react badly to them, when he is upset because it is his bedtime and he is tired - he will want to hit back, strike back, whine, shout and pout.  My son tells me the same thing as you have - I can only react this way or that way in this situation.  What you fail to recognize, is that there is an ADULT and GROWN-UP way to dealing with conflict.  Striking back physically, or with words, or with a poor attitude, doesn't help the situation at all. 

How many people have you helped see the light and vaccinate themselves and their kids using the "I-hope-you-get-punished" approach?  Yeah, that's what I thought.  People don't respond well to that. 
Grow up Sibley.  I get the impression you are 32 going on 5.
I don't think the idea is to convince anyone by saying "I hope your kid gets sick". The convincing part for anti-vaxxer parents would be the actual illness. And I agree, if in a theoretical situation where one kid getting sick encourages their parents to have them vaccinated for other more serious diseases or convinces other anti-vaxxer parents to change their ways, it would be worth it. If one illness ultimately prevents another more serious illness or multiple future illnesses I see that as a positive outcome. In fact I think it's safe to say the lack of incidence of these preventable disease is exactly why some parents have decided not to take them seriously. The occasional sick kid may be what it takes to push vaccination rates towards 100%. If PSA's could get the same result then of course that would be preferable.

I never saw Sibley's comment as being hateful or hoping for some sort of revenge on stupid people.

So yes, it would be better for the population if a handful of children get the measles to remind everyone else of the danger. If I pull it down to an individual level, I don't want the child(ren) to get sick. (I'd be ok with the mother getting sick though to punish her for her stupidity, but that's different, she's responsible.)

Well, not the first comment at least...

I never claimed to be perfect. When there's one individual making decisions that are a detriment to someone who is innocent, then yes, I'm ok with them getting punished in some way. It's the same concept as the kid who's a bully on the playground finding out no one wants to play with them - there are consequences to actions. You may not like those consequences, but they're logical and predictable. Getting a preventable illness when you don't vaccinate is one of those predicable consequences. I would prefer that those consequences hit the person most responsible rather than innocents around them. Unfortunately, the world doesn't always work that way. It's not really "nice" to say it though, and that's why Beard doesn't like me.
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: Sibley on February 07, 2018, 03:43:39 PM
I don't know if reminding people of the danger would really work. Some of these vaccines are relatively recent and there are plenty of people who remember what it was like. They just view the vaccine as worse. Imagined danger is terrifying when you don't know it's imaginary.

For example, here is my vaccine fear that I hope I get over by the time I have children:
I was born prior to the introduction of the chickenpox vaccine and consider that to be a "normal" childhood illness that everyone goes through. I had it and my brothers had it and my friends had it. It was uncomfortable but not life-threatening as a child. My uncle, however, got it older while he was an adult. This is much more dangerous and he was in the hospital for weeks. My ingrained life lesson? Everyone should get chicken pox as a child so that they are safe from it as adults.

Now I see plenty of children and even adults that have never had chickenpox and I worry that the vaccine will "wear off" and expose them as adults. It's irrational and I have zero proof that would happen, but I think about it every time someone mentions the chickenpox vaccine. When I have children and have the question put to me I am thankful that I have a vocal pharmacist as a sister in law to beat me over the head with medical books until I listen to reason. I'm not sure I could pull myself from the fear on my own.

I think the lines get blurred with some of the more recent vaccines. The really "important" vaccines, in terms of mortality and overall societal impact, were developed first. Measles, smallpox, polio, diphtheria, etc - those are the ones that we REALLY don't want coming back. Chicken pox, shingles - yes they're unpleasant, yes they can be dangerous, but when compared to some of the others, not really. The odds of dying from chicken pox vs. measles are quite a bit different in aggregate.

The problem is that people remember chicken pox. And they use that memory of chicken pox as a proxy for all the rest. "Oh, chicken pox isn't a big deal, it's not dangerous, I don't need to get the kids vaccinated" and then they apply that attitude to other vaccines. They use religion, or "clean living" or autism, or whatever as the cover, the excuse. But they don't get vaccinated. They don't remember measles, or smallpox, or tetanus, etc. If they actually SAW some of those other diseases, or developed a new "cultural memory" all of a sudden the gut level instinct changes. One of the reasons vaccinations took off was fear - fear that their kids would get sick and die, because it happened. It wasn't an abstract, you KNEW someone who got measles and died, or went blind, or whatever. You knew friends and neighbors and heard about their families, etc as well. There was an ingrained cultural memory of what these diseases could do, and it terrified people, deep down where they may not even realize it was there. People were primed to jump for something that was going to help keep their kids alive. Obviously, the introduction of vaccines wasn't without bumps and setbacks, but once they were in place, shown to work and be generally safe, that cultural memory helped a lot.

And sorry to give you nightmares, but any immunity can wear off. That's why adults are being recommended to get a whooping cough booster. In the case of chicken pox - yes, there are cases of adults getting chicken pox when they'd been vaccinated as children. However, this can also happen if you had the disease, it just depends on how much response you get from the immune system upon exposure. That's why herd immunity is so important - to protect those who can't be vaccinated or who's immune system didn't respond strongly. So, maybe ask your doctor what boosters you need.
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: bugbaby on February 07, 2018, 05:52:29 PM
Just, Stop. This is the internet. You're not gonna change anyone's opinions .... but you're sure annoying everyone who's here for a light moment of 'anti-mustachian comedy'

Sent from my KIW-L24 using Tapatalk

Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: eliza on February 07, 2018, 06:16:59 PM
My spendypants sister (SS) mentioned up thread is evaluating two job offers for her post-post-grad employment.

SS: I just don't know what to do.
Me: Ok.  What's the sticking point?
SS: Well, my work life balance will be better in one position.
Me: How much better?
SS: Well, I'll probably work the same hours, but I won't have to do the four weeks of call/year that I'll have to in the other job.
Me: What's the upside of the other (less work-life balance job)?
SS: It pays more.
Me: How much more?
SS: $100,000
Me: PER YEAR?
SS: Yes.  But four weeks of on-call.
Me: Would you work a week of on-call for $25,000?
SS: Of COURSE!
Me: Then take high-paying job!
SS: But, work-life balance.
Me: It's a tough decision --- just think through which job is going to get you to where you want to be in ten years.

And that's all the advice I'm giving --- it's not my life.  But $100,000 a year difference.  I can't even imagine turning that down.  Especially not with the debt load she and her husband have.
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: Miss Piggy on February 07, 2018, 06:52:35 PM
My spendypants sister (SS) mentioned up thread is evaluating two job offers for her post-post-grad employment.

And that's all the advice I'm giving --- it's not my life.  But $100,000 a year difference.  I can't even imagine turning that down.  Especially not with the debt load she and her husband have.

Holy crap. Can I work her on-call weeks for half of that???!!!
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: frugalfoothills on February 07, 2018, 08:25:14 PM
Woooowww this thread went off the RAILS!!!!

Few things to chime in on:

And lastly, a new development with my unemployed soon to be millionaires: they have each gotten separate $60/month gym memberships! On top of their existing $50/month membership to some rowing facility. Paid for with money from their business loan, obviously. My sister texted me after a hot yoga class tonight telling me I should really think about taking it up since it is so amazing for stress.

What the fuck do they have to be stressed about!? They are living the dream!!
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: ScreamingHeadGuy on February 07, 2018, 09:14:43 PM
I offer my condolances for your soon-to-be-millionaire relatives.  Yet it is entertaining, in a schaden-freud sense, to read each new and cringe-worthy update.
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: bugbaby on February 07, 2018, 10:56:27 PM
My spendypants sister (SS) mentioned up thread is evaluating two job offers for her post-post-grad employment.

And that's all the advice I'm giving --- it's not my life.  But $100,000 a year difference.  I can't even imagine turning that down.  Especially not with the debt load she and her husband have.

Holy crap. Can I work her on-call weeks for half of that???!!!
Ha, for a sec, I got the sisters mixed up, that OP's sis &amp; chiro BIL's $$ problems solved in an epic climactic way ...Ha

Sent from my KIW-L24 using Tapatalk

Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: Linea_Norway on February 08, 2018, 12:30:41 AM

And lastly, a new development with my unemployed soon to be millionaires: they have each gotten separate $60/month gym memberships! On top of their existing $50/month membership to some rowing facility. Paid for with money from their business loan, obviously. My sister texted me after a hot yoga class tonight telling me I should really think about taking it up since it is so amazing for stress.

What the fuck do they have to be stressed about!? They are living the dream!!

Is it an idea to text her back telling her that you get stressed by them spending so much of their business loan on other stuff than building the business?

No, I'm wrong. It is wrong to interfere in their spending habit, as it is their own responsibility. It would just have been to great if anyone had ever taught them how to handle finances. Strange that a vet school, where a certain percentage is expected to build their own practice doesn't teach a business class.

Just keep your purse closed when they come begging you for financial help later.
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: Just Joe on February 08, 2018, 07:47:40 AM
The problem is that people remember chicken pox. And they use that memory of chicken pox as a proxy for all the rest. "Oh, chicken pox isn't a big deal, it's not dangerous, I don't need to get the kids vaccinated" and then they apply that attitude to other vaccines. They use religion, or "clean living" or autism, or whatever as the cover, the excuse. But they don't get vaccinated. They don't remember measles, or smallpox, or tetanus, etc. If they actually SAW some of those other diseases, or developed a new "cultural memory" all of a sudden the gut level instinct changes.

That's what Google Images and YouTube are for. Go look at the pictures of polio patients in iron lungs. Read recent articles about people who are still reliant on those antique things in 2018. They have spent their entire life in a machine or near a machine just in case. And nobody will work on these machines anymore so if the machine stops, so do these people's lives.

There are urban explorers crawling through the ruins of enormous hospitals and asylums constructed to house/treat people with various diseases that have been eradicated before 2018. We can see how prevalent these problems were back then. Its all documented around the web.

All a person ought to do is read/watch history. Vintage pictures and vintage movies. A peek into the past can really be scary.
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: Sibley on February 08, 2018, 02:39:34 PM
The problem is that people remember chicken pox. And they use that memory of chicken pox as a proxy for all the rest. "Oh, chicken pox isn't a big deal, it's not dangerous, I don't need to get the kids vaccinated" and then they apply that attitude to other vaccines. They use religion, or "clean living" or autism, or whatever as the cover, the excuse. But they don't get vaccinated. They don't remember measles, or smallpox, or tetanus, etc. If they actually SAW some of those other diseases, or developed a new "cultural memory" all of a sudden the gut level instinct changes.

That's what Google Images and YouTube are for. Go look at the pictures of polio patients in iron lungs. Read recent articles about people who are still reliant on those antique things in 2018. They have spent their entire life in a machine or near a machine just in case. And nobody will work on these machines anymore so if the machine stops, so do these people's lives.

There are urban explorers crawling through the ruins of enormous hospitals and asylums constructed to house/treat people with various diseases that have been eradicated before 2018. We can see how prevalent these problems were back then. Its all documented around the web.

All a person ought to do is read/watch history. Vintage pictures and vintage movies. A peek into the past can really be scary.

Yes you're right. But you're thinking too logically. You're not an anti-vaxxer, neither am I. Logic isn't going to work for many of them - they need to feel real consequences in order to figure out they're wrong. The only way they will is if the cost for NOT vaccinating gets too high. Two ways for that to happen - actual disease, or societal pressure. Neither is pretty.
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: kenner on February 08, 2018, 07:43:45 PM
The problem is that people remember chicken pox. And they use that memory of chicken pox as a proxy for all the rest. "Oh, chicken pox isn't a big deal, it's not dangerous, I don't need to get the kids vaccinated" and then they apply that attitude to other vaccines. They use religion, or "clean living" or autism, or whatever as the cover, the excuse. But they don't get vaccinated. They don't remember measles, or smallpox, or tetanus, etc. If they actually SAW some of those other diseases, or developed a new "cultural memory" all of a sudden the gut level instinct changes.

That's what Google Images and YouTube are for. Go look at the pictures of polio patients in iron lungs. Read recent articles about people who are still reliant on those antique things in 2018. They have spent their entire life in a machine or near a machine just in case. And nobody will work on these machines anymore so if the machine stops, so do these people's lives.

There are urban explorers crawling through the ruins of enormous hospitals and asylums constructed to house/treat people with various diseases that have been eradicated before 2018. We can see how prevalent these problems were back then. Its all documented around the web.

All a person ought to do is read/watch history. Vintage pictures and vintage movies. A peek into the past can really be scary.

Yes you're right. But you're thinking too logically. You're not an anti-vaxxer, neither am I. Logic isn't going to work for many of them - they need to feel real consequences in order to figure out they're wrong. The only way they will is if the cost for NOT vaccinating gets too high. Two ways for that to happen - actual disease, or societal pressure. Neither is pretty.

One of my grandmothers was a nurse way back when, and I remember her talking to my mother when there was some story on the news about people objecting to vaccinations.  It was a while back so I'm not sure if anti-vax was such a big deal at the time, but her response pretty close to word-for-word:  'Those idiots wouldn't know an iron lung if it fell on them, and instead of being grateful they act like their parents did them some horrible wrong.  It's a shame their children will be the ones who pay for their stupidity.'

As much as I wouldn't wish harm on anyone, I suspect she was right and it's going to take an outbreak of something nasty (and probably preventable) before people realize just what some of those vaccinations they're so opposed to actually protect against. 
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: Spiffsome on February 09, 2018, 12:49:28 AM
Here in Australia, we recently passed a law (nicknamed 'No Jab, No Pay') disqualifying parents from receiving a particular tax benefit if their kids weren't immunised. Exceptions were made for genuine medical issues, but no philosophical or religious exemptions. This tax benefit varies, but is generally worth about $3,000 per year.  The rate of immunisation jumped noticeably, and the population of philosophical objectors dropped like a rock. Seems a lot of people were happy to gamble other people's lives on their philosophy but they weren't willing to forego three grand a year for it.

On the original topic, frugalfoothills, it seems you'd be a lot happier if you weren't having your face rubbed in this idiotic bullshit regularly. Does anyone have any ideas on how to get the texts to stop?
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: krustyburger on February 09, 2018, 04:34:38 AM
On the original topic, frugalfoothills, it seems you'd be a lot happier if you weren't having your face rubbed in this idiotic bullshit regularly. Does anyone have any ideas on how to get the texts to stop?

No no no don't stop the texts, this thread is amazing, it's like a car crash in really really slow motion, I can't look away
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: kina on February 09, 2018, 09:40:45 AM
On the original topic, frugalfoothills, it seems you'd be a lot happier if you weren't having your face rubbed in this idiotic bullshit regularly. Does anyone have any ideas on how to get the texts to stop?

No no no don't stop the texts, this thread is amazing, it's like a car crash in really really slow motion, I can't look away

I'll second that!
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: YttriumNitrate on February 09, 2018, 11:12:59 AM
Quote from: casserole_dish link=topic=86790.msg1892241#msg1892241
No no no don't stop the texts, this thread is amazing, it's like a car crash in really really slow motion, I can't look away
Indeed, although to make this more interesting, we should really start betting on when frugalfoothills' brother-in-law will ask his father for more money.

***The winner gets 10 internet points, and the pride of being right!!!***

My guess is that they will make it to January 15, 2019 before asking for more money.
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: Sibley on February 09, 2018, 02:35:55 PM
Quote from: casserole_dish link=topic=86790.msg1892241#msg1892241
No no no don't stop the texts, this thread is amazing, it's like a car crash in really really slow motion, I can't look away
Indeed, although to make this more interesting, we should really start betting on when frugalfoothills' brother-in-law will ask his father for more money.

***The winner gets 10 internet points, and the pride of being right!!!***

My guess is that they will make it to January 15, 2019 before asking for more money.

Oh, sooner the way they're spending it. I'll give them about 6 months, so say July 15th.
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: Zamboni on February 09, 2018, 02:57:13 PM
Oh, Oh, wait, I wait to be in on the action!

Remind me, how big was this business loan? and when was it?
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: eliza on February 09, 2018, 03:45:43 PM
Quote from: casserole_dish link=topic=86790.msg1892241#msg1892241
No no no don't stop the texts, this thread is amazing, it's like a car crash in really really slow motion, I can't look away
Indeed, although to make this more interesting, we should really start betting on when frugalfoothills' brother-in-law will ask his father for more money.

***The winner gets 10 internet points, and the pride of being right!!!***

My guess is that they will make it to January 15, 2019 before asking for more money.

Ooooooooo!  I love internet points. And being right!  Gotta think about this one.
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: Apple_Tango on February 09, 2018, 05:43:33 PM
I guess August 2018
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: Fomerly known as something on February 09, 2018, 06:22:51 PM
I say in May of 2018 they are going to need more money to "finish the office"
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: Finances_With_Purpose on February 09, 2018, 09:28:14 PM
PTF.  This is a thread that keeps on giving...like watching a crash in slow motion.  Except nobody is dying. 

Feeling for you @frugalfoothills ...
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: Finances_With_Purpose on February 09, 2018, 09:31:52 PM
I am taking July 2018.  A month before opening.  It just feels right.  Though whoever said Aug. has a great spot too...that makes a ton of sense.  I'm having to be mildly pessimistic.  I should probably take Sept. 
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: Apple_Tango on February 09, 2018, 10:48:02 PM
I am taking July 2018.  A month before opening.  It just feels right.  Though whoever said Aug. has a great spot too...that makes a ton of sense.  I'm having to be mildly pessimistic.  I should probably take Sept.

It could definitely be July or September! A month before opening “dad! Help we need just a bit more” or a month after opening “dad! Help! We’re just starting and not as many customers came in as we were expecting. We need some money for advertising- that will turn it around”
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: Linea_Norway on February 10, 2018, 01:01:51 PM
My bet: 15th of August 2018.
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: Beard N Bones on February 10, 2018, 06:18:30 PM
Quote from: casserole_dish link=topic=86790.msg1892241#msg1892241
No no no don't stop the texts, this thread is amazing, it's like a car crash in really really slow motion, I can't look away
Indeed, although to make this more interesting, we should really start betting on when frugalfoothills' brother-in-law will ask his father for more money.

***The winner gets 10 internet points, and the pride of being right!!!***

My guess is that they will make it to January 15, 2019 before asking for more money.

I don't know why everyone is 6 months plus on this one. My guess is one month before Independence Day, in June 4th. I'm dubbing this day as Dependence Day.

Living off loans. $60/mn/person gym memberships. $50/mn rowing. Hot  yoga. New chest. Bed stuff. Surely there is more spending that we don't hear about. Yep. Dependence Day indeed.
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: Gronnie on February 10, 2018, 07:19:30 PM
If sis is choosing between jobs where one pays $100k more than the other, sounds like they may not be exactly frugal but definitely shouldn't end up in the poorhouse.
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: Beard N Bones on February 10, 2018, 09:18:16 PM
If sis is choosing between jobs where one pays $100k more than the other, sounds like they may not be exactly frugal but definitely shouldn't end up in the poorhouse.
Gronnie! Is this a vote that the BIL and sis will not be asking for more cash again?! That's ballsy!
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: Gronnie on February 11, 2018, 12:15:38 AM
If sis is choosing between jobs where one pays $100k more than the other, sounds like they may not be exactly frugal but definitely shouldn't end up in the poorhouse.
Gronnie! Is this a vote that the BIL and sis will not be asking for more cash again?! That's ballsy!

Hell no, they'll definitely be asking for more money. I predict they will make enough payments to keep stringing along lenders to give them more and more for a very long time.
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: Step37 on February 11, 2018, 12:41:52 AM
I think the sister debating over the “extra” 100k for four weeks of call is the sister of someone else who’s commenting on this thread (Eliza? - without going back and re-reading), not OP’s sister. Seems like a crazy debate to have over four tough weeks per year.
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: ShoulderThingThatGoesUp on February 11, 2018, 05:42:04 AM
My guess is August, after a blowout summer vacation because they deserve it for how hard they’re about to work.

On the side topic, I’ve talked to my four-year-old so much about how lucky we are to have vaccines that at her last checkup she was impatient for her “fancy ouchies”. She made a face at the shots but didn’t even consider crying because she knows how important they are.

I had my parents roll up their sleeves to show her their smallpox vaccine scars in one of these conversations, and talked about how everybody in the world got them so nobody has to deal with that disease ever again.

Smallpox vaccine scars are pretty gross.
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: Zamboni on February 11, 2018, 09:25:04 AM
Okay, this is getting confusing, so I'm organizing at timeline of the most relevant events for us and tabulating the bets on the table so far:

May 2016 Sis Graduation with Masters, but no student loans! (Thanks fam!)
Oct 2016-Oct 2017 Sis works part time at hospital
Oct 2017 Sis stops working
Dec 2017 BIL Graduation from Chiropractic school
              $90K student loans
              $150K personal loan from his father
Jan 2018 Relocation to HCOL area, both unemployed
              start renting 3 BR house at ~$2K/month
Mar 2018 Initial target date for office opening
July 2018 Revised target date for office opening

Courtesy of YttriumNitrate, bets on the table for when they will ask for more money:
(***The winner gets 10 internet points, and the pride of being right!!!***)
(unless you state a date, you are getting the first of the month)

May 1, 2018 neverrun
June 4, 2018 Beard N Bones (Dependence Day)
July 1, 2018 Finances_With_Purpose?
July 15, 2018 Sibley
Aug 1, 2018 Apple_Tango, ShoulderThingThatGoesUp
Aug 15, 2018 Linda_Norway
Nov 15, 2018 Zamboni
Jan 15, 2019 Yt(NO3)3


Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: Roe on February 11, 2018, 09:42:39 AM
My guess is August, after a blowout summer vacation because they deserve it for how hard they’re about to work.


That made me laugh, thank you for the free entertainment!


Okay, this is getting confusing, so I'm organizing at timeline of the most relevant events for us and tabulating the bets on the table so far:

May 2016 Sis Graduation with Masters, but no student loans! (Thanks fam!)
Oct 2016-Oct 2017 Sis works part time at hospital
Oct 2017 Sis stops working
Dec 2017 BIL Graduation from Chiropractic school
              $90K student loans
              $150K personal loan from his father
Jan 2018 Relocation to HCOL area, both unemployed
              start renting 3 BR house at ~$2K/month
Mar 2018 Initial target date for office opening
July 2018 Revised target date for office opening

Courtesy of YttriumNitrate, bets on the table for when they will ask for more money:
(***The winner gets 10 internet points, and the pride of being right!!!***)
(unless you state a date, you are getting the first of the month)

May 1, 2018 neverrun
June 4, 2018 Beard N Bones (Dependence Day)
July 1, 2018 Finances_With_Purpose?
July 15, 2018 Sibley, Roe
Aug 1, 2018 Apple_Tango, ShoulderThingThatGoesUp
Aug 15, 2018 Linda_Norway
Nov 15, 2018 Zamboni
Jan 15, 2019 Yt(NO3)3


Hoping that Yt(NO3)3 or "never" wins, but doubt it. Added my vote for July.
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: lhamo on February 11, 2018, 12:00:37 PM
My prediction:

They are probably blowing through at least 8k/month just on living/lifestyle expenses.

Within the next 6 weeks, they will buy a new car for 35-50k

There is at least a 25% probability that they will find the perfect piece of rural land sometime before May 1, and will go into contract for that.

They'll probably get their first payment notice for the student loans sometime in early June.

I predict the hands will be extended for more parental funds no later than June 15, 2018.
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: iris lily on February 11, 2018, 12:15:11 PM
The “special program” sounds like it could be a multi-level marketing scheme. That would be a way to gross a cool mill without much trouble.

Yo, it's not an MLM. It's a reverse funnel!
I always love an opportunity to pimp  DH’s  Chiropractor cousin, Dr. Erik.

Yes he IS a millionaire several times over, but that likely has somethng  to do with California real estate (now Swiss real estate) and giving HowToGetRich  seminars and packages he sells to other chiros.

http://www.practicewealth.com

He is very entreprenureal. He came to the U.S. when young, went to
Chiro school, moved to CAlif, set up a practice and worked for decades while a first wife sold real estate, then somewhere in there he moved into selling seminars. His website is awful and ancient looking and I cannot think why he doesnt get something  more modern. But anyway, he “retired” back to Switzerland with a young blonde second wife and small children, the very definition of Success. Haha.

It seems to me that chiropractic medicine was his tool for sales and success. He probably would have landed in the same place usng a different service model. He is an interesting case in our family, thats for sure.

I have never darkened the door of a Chiro, and doubt that I  ever will.
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: iris lily on February 11, 2018, 12:38:32 PM
Whereas, and I'm sorry, but I hope those children DO fall ill from a preventable disease. Because that's probably the only way the idiot anti-vaxxers are going to get some sense knocked into them. A round of mild to moderate measles causing 2 months of quarantine sounds like a perfect punishment for putting others at risk because you don't want to take advantage of one of the most important and impactful public health advances in history (hygiene did more, but vaccines are way up there).

I find this comment to be extremely inappropriate, rude and uncalled for.  Why are you wishing harm on anyone?!

It would be the same if someone wished that you had a heart attack, stroke, a mental issue (like alzheimers, depression, anxiety, or cancer) because you never got 30 minutes of moderate/vigorous exercise/day, or ate 5 servings of fruits and vegetables/day. (As everyone knows that exercise and a healthy diet prevents many chronic diseases.  And parents who are inactive, sedentary and don't eat healthy, are more likely to have kids that are also inactive, sedentary and eat poorly.)  Do you exercise daily and always eat healthy Sibley?

Your approach to this topic helps no-one Sibley.
[FWIW - My family and I have all been vaccinated.]

Unless Sibley has amazing powers, her "approach" will not affect anyone, unlike anti-vaxxers, whose approach literally puts the lives of others at risk. This is why your indignant comparison is totally wrong: Sibley not excercising and eating right would only affect Sibley. The fall in vaccination rates has affected MILLIONS worldwide.

I can understand his/her frustration - you certainly don't want anyone dead, but if the children fell ill, you'd hope their parents would come to their senses. Unfortunately, it would probably cause them to double down, because humans are great at lying to themselves.

@Beard N Bones , I have a habit of thinking at a population level. You, clearly, think at an individual level. This isn't wrong, but it is very different and tends to result in exactly the reaction you had when you run into someone who thinks at a population level - disgust and fear. Because if I don't care about a couple of children, then clearly I don't care about you. Which is terrifying. It's ok, it's normal, but you need to understand.

At a population level, low vaccination rates are disastrous, and individuals don't matter - it's aggregate only. At an individual level, each individual matters. Even a handful of people getting sick is huge in that mind set. If you're looking at a whole population, who cares if a few sickly individuals die? It may even be good for the population as a whole because whatever's causing them to be sickly and weak is not being passed down to future generations. In the long view, at a population level, we are FAR better off if a small number of people get sick and remind the rest of the group WHY we have vaccines. The alternative is eventually a pandemic that kills millions and sickens hundreds of millions.

You can apply this population-level thinking to a lot of situations. It boils down to the classic ethical dilemma - do you flip the switch to move the train to kill the baby but spare the larger number of people on the other track? I fall onto the side of saving the larger number of people than the 1. Doesn't mean I won't mourn the 1, but in the abstract, I view 1 death to be a lessor tragedy than 100 deaths.

There have been cases where anti-vaxxers DID change their minds because their children got sick, and they've gone on to vaccinate as recommended. As a population, we've forgotten the great epidemics and pandemics of the past (at least in the US). I do not remember when polio was sweeping through the country, killing and paralyzing. I don't remember measles, or mumps, or whooping cough. I'm not old enough. Hardly anyone today is. The problem is that because we don't have that daily reminder, we also can forget why it matters and other, lessor concerns will dictate the decision. In other places that still have these diseases, mothers are desperate to get their children vaccinated. Because they know the cost if they don't - death, disability, deformity.

So yes, it would be better for the population if a handful of children get the measles to remind everyone else of the danger. If I pull it down to an individual level, I don't want the child(ren) to get sick. (I'd be ok with the mother getting sick though to punish her for her stupidity, but that's different, she's responsible.)

And no, I don't have amazing powers. Wish I did, cause that would be cool. :)

This is enexcellent way to state how point of view affects the discussion of a thing.

One analogous situation is neutering pet dogs. Some people in my circle become apolpletic when a person dares to express the idea that their pet, for factually accurate reasons,  will not be neutered, or at least will not be on a timeline dictated by rescue  groups.

Yes, from the view of the popular good, it is wrong, but from the view of a responsible owner providing healthcare for her individual dog, it is right.
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: frugalfoothills on February 11, 2018, 06:17:02 PM
Did I miss something?

They’ve living off of the 150K business loan, which is meant to set up the business, right?
What money are they going to use to set up the business?? And why is there such a huge delay for the business to open? Also, what kind of clinic requires less than 150K in set up costs???

I feel like something is seriously missing here.

Confused?? Join the club, man!

The 150k loan is *technically* a loan for them to open the business, but it’s a loan from his father. They are using about $75k to build out their office space (that construction process has just started so I’m assuming that number will climb, as it does with most construction projects), and another $30-40k for equipment, etc. Apparently when they sat down to discuss this loan and sign on the dotted line, they decided that even though they thought they’d only need around $110-$120k to start the business, they realized that they wouldn’t be working for (at that time, three) but now seven months, so they “decided to take out more than they needed to accommodate for living expenses.”

The business was delayed opening because my BIL didn’t get the scores needed to practice in the state they moved to. Of course, they didn’t wait to get his scores back before signing the lease for the office space and hiring a contractor, etc. So basically now there’s all this work going into building out the space and it’s set to be done in March, which is when they were originally supposed to open, but now he has to re-take his boards in May. He won’t get the results until July, which means that’s the absolute earliest they can open.

There’s also still the possibility he won’t pass in May but, true to form, they’re not even considering that. No contingency plan.

So, as far as the money: they get $150k dropped on them, expect to spend $120ish on the office opening, and see the other $30k as money to live on until they start bringing in the big bucks (presumably the second they open.) That means rent, Whole Foods shopping trips, gym memberships, blah blah blah. Oh and also, using it to make payments on his student loans when those start rolling in.

If you’re thinking that sounds like a super bad idea, SAME!
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: lhamo on February 11, 2018, 07:03:36 PM
Oh, wow.  I didn't realize they had already leased/started building out the office space.

I hereby revise my estimated "hands out again" date to March 15th, assuming they don't buy a car first.....
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: frugalecon on February 11, 2018, 07:18:24 PM
Did I miss something?

They’ve living off of the 150K business loan, which is meant to set up the business, right?
What money are they going to use to set up the business?? And why is there such a huge delay for the business to open? Also, what kind of clinic requires less than 150K in set up costs???

I feel like something is seriously missing here.

Confused?? Join the club, man!

The 150k loan is *technically* a loan for them to open the business, but it’s a loan from his father. They are using about $75k to build out their office space (that construction process has just started so I’m assuming that number will climb, as it does with most construction projects), and another $30-40k for equipment, etc. Apparently when they sat down to discuss this loan and sign on the dotted line, they decided that even though they thought they’d only need around $110-$120k to start the business, they realized that they wouldn’t be working for (at that time, three) but now seven months, so they “decided to take out more than they needed to accommodate for living expenses.”

The business was delayed opening because my BIL didn’t get the scores needed to practice in the state they moved to. Of course, they didn’t wait to get his scores back before signing the lease for the office space and hiring a contractor, etc. So basically now there’s all this work going into building out the space and it’s set to be done in March, which is when they were originally supposed to open, but now he has to re-take his boards in May. He won’t get the results until July, which means that’s the absolute earliest they can open.

There’s also still the possibility he won’t pass in May but, true to form, they’re not even considering that. No contingency plan.

So, as far as the money: they get $150k dropped on them, expect to spend $120ish on the office opening, and see the other $30k as money to live on until they start bringing in the big bucks (presumably the second they open.) That means rent, Whole Foods shopping trips, gym memberships, blah blah blah. Oh and also, using it to make payments on his student loans when those start rolling in.

If you’re thinking that sounds like a super bad idea, SAME!

My father used to talk about people "living a Champagne lifestyle on a beer budget." Sounds like that describes your relatives.

I don't wish ill on anyone, and I always hope that people with seemingly unrealistic plans will somehow make it all work, but it really doesn't seem to. The crazy thing is that it is pretty feasible to get rich in this country, where rich means FI, but it doesn't go quickly. But lots of people want to shortcut the process. I wonder if they look at those of us who just keep our nose to the grindstone as chumps. (Of course, I try to avoid letting them know what our net worth is.)
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: Zamboni on February 11, 2018, 07:29:13 PM
Egad, he hasn't passed the boards yet?! I'm going stick with my November bet, but based on all this new information, unfortunately I no longer think they will make it to June without asking for more money.

Mar 15, 2018 lhamo
May 1, 2018 neverrun
June 4, 2018 Beard N Bones (Dependence Day)
July 1, 2018 Finances_With_Purpose?
July 15, 2018 Sibley, Roe
Aug 1, 2018 Apple_Tango, ShoulderThingThatGoesUp
Aug 15, 2018 Linda_Norway
Nov 15, 2018 Zamboni
Jan 15, 2019 Yt(NO3)3
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: Beard N Bones on February 11, 2018, 07:50:32 PM
Did I miss something?

They’ve living off of the 150K business loan, which is meant to set up the business, right?
What money are they going to use to set up the business?? And why is there such a huge delay for the business to open? Also, what kind of clinic requires less than 150K in set up costs???

I feel like something is seriously missing here.

Confused?? Join the club, man!

The 150k loan is *technically* a loan for them to open the business, but it’s a loan from his father. They are using about $75k to build out their office space (that construction process has just started so I’m assuming that number will climb, as it does with most construction projects), and another $30-40k for equipment, etc. Apparently when they sat down to discuss this loan and sign on the dotted line, they decided that even though they thought they’d only need around $110-$120k to start the business, they realized that they wouldn’t be working for (at that time, three) but now seven months, so they “decided to take out more than they needed to accommodate for living expenses.”

The business was delayed opening because my BIL didn’t get the scores needed to practice in the state they moved to. Of course, they didn’t wait to get his scores back before signing the lease for the office space and hiring a contractor, etc. So basically now there’s all this work going into building out the space and it’s set to be done in March, which is when they were originally supposed to open, but now he has to re-take his boards in May. He won’t get the results until July, which means that’s the absolute earliest they can open.

There’s also still the possibility he won’t pass in May but, true to form, they’re not even considering that. No contingency plan.

So, as far as the money: they get $150k dropped on them, expect to spend $120ish on the office opening, and see the other $30k as money to live on until they start bringing in the big bucks (presumably the second they open.) That means rent, Whole Foods shopping trips, gym memberships, blah blah blah. Oh and also, using it to make payments on his student loans when those start rolling in.

If you’re thinking that sounds like a super bad idea, SAME!

frugalfoothills! Reading this most recent information makes my head hurt! You have previously described a shake-your-head-and-laugh-about-it type scenario. And now it's gotten into the I'm-cringing-and-can't-watch territory.

I assume you have a very different approach to your finances and business. Where did your sister and BIL go off track so badly? What's wrong with them?
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: jinga nation on February 11, 2018, 09:23:48 PM
@frugalfoothills I'm still mad you haven't given me the dimensions of her new chest, as asked previously. :-p

Please don't tell me y'all some type of Asian. Because this story is somewhat common in Indian, Chinese, Vietnamese families. I've seen enough wrecks in friends' families (my friends were the engineers, their siblings in the medical fields).
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: Linea_Norway on February 12, 2018, 02:24:51 AM
Quote

There have been cases where anti-vaxxers DID change their minds because their children got sick, and they've gone on to vaccinate as recommended. As a population, we've forgotten the great epidemics and pandemics of the past (at least in the US). I do not remember when polio was sweeping through the country, killing and paralyzing. I don't remember measles, or mumps, or whooping cough. I'm not old enough. Hardly anyone today is. The problem is that because we don't have that daily reminder, we also can forget why it matters and other, lessor concerns will dictate the decision. In other places that still have these diseases, mothers are desperate to get their children vaccinated. Because they know the cost if they don't - death, disability, deformity.


I think it is time for a large information campaign with scary pictures and films. Like they do in some countries with posting lung cancer pictures on cigarette packets. Hang up posters of diseases in schools to scare children and let them put pressure on their parents. Put posters in places that parents visit. Put them in doctor's offices. Make TV commercials with scary films. Put adds on facebook for people who join anti-vac groups. I think that might make a difference without anyone needing to get the actual disease. Why hasn't this started yet?
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: Mezzie on February 12, 2018, 06:17:22 AM
Oh man... It was already ridiculous, but he hasn't even passed his boards yet?

I hope he's at least studying, but based on their other actions, they seem to just think things will magically work out, so who knows.
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: partgypsy on February 12, 2018, 06:36:23 AM
My prediction:

They are probably blowing through at least 8k/month just on living/lifestyle expenses.

Within the next 6 weeks, they will buy a new car for 35-50k

There is at least a 25% probability that they will find the perfect piece of rural land sometime before May 1, and will go into contract for that.

They'll probably get their first payment notice for the student loans sometime in early June.

I predict the hands will be extended for more parental funds no later than June 15, 2018.

I was going to say July 1st, when the rubber hits the road, but this is close enough : )

Wow I just read he hasn't passed his boards yet. I realize I think I'm different than most people. I worry more. I want to make sure things are planned for and there are contigency plans. So many ways they are doing this, would drive me crazy. The living off of borrowed money. And building an office space to perform in a medical field I can't legally practice in because I flunked the boards. UGH!
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: bugbaby on February 12, 2018, 06:39:26 AM
My money is on April Fool's Day.

Wow.

Sent from my KIW-L24 using Tapatalk

Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: ExpNSS on February 12, 2018, 06:41:49 AM
Egad, he hasn't passed the boards yet?! I'm going stick with my November bet, but based on all this new information, unfortunately I no longer think they will make it to June without asking for more money.

Mar 15, 2018 lhamo
May 1, 2018 neverrun
June 4, 2018 Beard N Bones (Dependence Day)
July 1, 2018 Finances_With_Purpose?
July 15, 2018 Sibley, Roe
Aug 1, 2018 Apple_Tango, ShoulderThingThatGoesUp
Aug 15, 2018 Linda_Norway
Nov 15, 2018 Zamboni
Jan 15, 2019 Yt(NO3)3

Posting to follow and to add my guess. With the knowing that he hasn't passed boards yet, but that they are starting build out, based on the dates taken already I'm going with April 15, 2018.
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: KodeBlue on February 12, 2018, 06:50:45 AM
hasn't passed his boards? hope he's spending some money on a review course.
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: kina on February 12, 2018, 07:33:59 AM
May 13  (Mother's Day!)
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: elementz_m on February 12, 2018, 08:01:19 AM
Quote from: casserole_dish link=topic=86790.msg1892241#msg1892241
No no no don't stop the texts, this thread is amazing, it's like a car crash in really really slow motion, I can't look away
Indeed, although to make this more interesting, we should really start betting on when frugalfoothills' brother-in-law will ask his father for more money.

***The winner gets 10 internet points, and the pride of being right!!!***

My guess is that they will make it to January 15, 2019 before asking for more money.

I don't know why everyone is 6 months plus on this one. My guess is one month before Independence Day, in June 4th. I'm dubbing this day as Dependence Day.

Living off loans. $60/mn/person gym memberships. $50/mn rowing. Hot  yoga. New chest. Bed stuff. Surely there is more spending that we don't hear about. Yep. Dependence Day indeed.

Dependence Day - love it! 😂

Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: Laura33 on February 12, 2018, 09:57:36 AM
The business was delayed opening because my BIL didn’t get the scores needed to practice in the state they moved to. Of course, they didn’t wait to get his scores back before signing the lease for the office space and hiring a contractor, etc. So basically now there’s all this work going into building out the space and it’s set to be done in March, which is when they were originally supposed to open, but now he has to re-take his boards in May. He won’t get the results until July, which means that’s the absolute earliest they can open.

There’s also still the possibility he won’t pass in May but, true to form, they’re not even considering that. No contingency plan.

OK, this has been fun, but now I am literally getting anxious and even a little nauseated thinking about this!  There are no words beyond "wow."
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: frugalfoothills on February 12, 2018, 12:17:07 PM
@frugalfoothills I'm still mad you haven't given me the dimensions of her new chest, as asked previously. :-p

Please don't tell me y'all some type of Asian. Because this story is somewhat common in Indian, Chinese, Vietnamese families. I've seen enough wrecks in friends' families (my friends were the engineers, their siblings in the medical fields).

I got to see it in person last weekend. I'd guess it's about 4 feet long by 3 feet deep... 3 foot(ish) tall.

And nope, just a bunch of dumb white people over here.
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: frugalfoothills on February 12, 2018, 12:33:23 PM
Did I miss something?

They’ve living off of the 150K business loan, which is meant to set up the business, right?
What money are they going to use to set up the business?? And why is there such a huge delay for the business to open? Also, what kind of clinic requires less than 150K in set up costs???

I feel like something is seriously missing here.

Confused?? Join the club, man!

The 150k loan is *technically* a loan for them to open the business, but it’s a loan from his father. They are using about $75k to build out their office space (that construction process has just started so I’m assuming that number will climb, as it does with most construction projects), and another $30-40k for equipment, etc. Apparently when they sat down to discuss this loan and sign on the dotted line, they decided that even though they thought they’d only need around $110-$120k to start the business, they realized that they wouldn’t be working for (at that time, three) but now seven months, so they “decided to take out more than they needed to accommodate for living expenses.”

The business was delayed opening because my BIL didn’t get the scores needed to practice in the state they moved to. Of course, they didn’t wait to get his scores back before signing the lease for the office space and hiring a contractor, etc. So basically now there’s all this work going into building out the space and it’s set to be done in March, which is when they were originally supposed to open, but now he has to re-take his boards in May. He won’t get the results until July, which means that’s the absolute earliest they can open.

There’s also still the possibility he won’t pass in May but, true to form, they’re not even considering that. No contingency plan.

So, as far as the money: they get $150k dropped on them, expect to spend $120ish on the office opening, and see the other $30k as money to live on until they start bringing in the big bucks (presumably the second they open.) That means rent, Whole Foods shopping trips, gym memberships, blah blah blah. Oh and also, using it to make payments on his student loans when those start rolling in.

If you’re thinking that sounds like a super bad idea, SAME!

Yeeeaaaahhh...

That’s about what I thought was going on, except I couldn’t figure out the 7 month delay. Failing the boards finally fills in the missing piece. Clinics are costly things to build, but they don’t take more than a few months even if they’re highly technical.

Well, either they’re totally screwed or your BIL is pretty confident that the Bank Of Dad will provide.
I’ve known plenty of spoiled brats with equally lofty and unrealistic plans who have been so emboldened by the certainty that their parents can and will bail them out that they don’t hesitate to fling themselves face first into the sharp blades of financial risk with the fantastical promise of extraordinary pay off.

I mean, why bother having back up plans or moderating your spending if the wellspring of parental money never runs dry?

If that isn’t the case then...well...that will make Christmas interesting...

Well, that's the other thing, he didn't really FAIL the boards. He passed the boards with the score needed to be considered passing at the national level, but apparently certain states have additional scores that need to be achieved in order for you to practice in THAT state. The state they moved to has a score almost 100 points higher than the "pass" score recognized nationally.

If it were me, I probably wouldn't have picked a state where that was a requirement and then started building out my office space before I even got those scores back. Feels like a pretty big roll of the dice.

I should also add, I do adore my sis and BIL. He isn't a spoiled brat, and he is super laid back about material things... he wears super old clothes, drives a 1980 Suburban that's paid off (and he doesn't want to get rid of it), and I'm pretty sure he wouldn't care if they lived in a hut on the side of the road. His only financial idiocy is coming from this opening of the practice, and he's had so much confidence pumped into him by that program I talked about that he truly feels like it cannot fail.

My sis is also not into clothes shopping, she currently drives a paid for car and doesn't care about getting a super nice vehicle, she spends zero money on things like haircuts and manicures and stuff like that. HER financial vice is the food/personal care. She's vegan, only wants to eat organic everything, only buys organic personal care products, etc etc etc.

I personally spend way more money than they do on entertainment and stuff... I go out for drinks semi-regularly, eat out a handful of times a month, go to concerts and take trips and stuff. They don't do any of that crap, which is why it's such a confusing situation... it's like they're hemorrhaging money and have basically nothing to show for it other than a fridge full of organic food. Of course, I also have a good job with a good salary. They have no jobs with no salary.

I think they're probably best described as "head in the clouds" rather than spoiled brats. They were both lucky to come from families that provided them with super comfortable lives growing up, and they've become accustomed to that comfortable lifestyle without understanding how you achieve that lifestyle comfortably. They don't know how much they should be spending on rent, so they don't understand why $2k a month is too much. They truly, genuinely believe that the minute the practice opens they are going to be making money, and quickly, and lots of it. They have basically put all of their trust into 2 things: the word of the leaders of my BIL's program, and God.

As for the commenters saying they're feeling anxious reading this... yeah, you can imagine how me/my parents feel WATCHING this unfold in real time.

And to the commenter who asked how she turned out so differently than me: she was always very different than me, even as children. I am a worrier and she is not. I am a planner and she is not. I would rather sell my home and move into a box on the street rather than ask anyone for help, and she has no qualms about taking a handout or asking my parents to chip in on gas and groceries, etc. I have contingency plans for my contingency plans, and she doesn't even have regular plans to make contingency plans for. I put my faith re: finances in numbers and math, and she puts her faith in a higher power (not that there's anything inherently wrong with that, but when you're talking money, it wouldn't hurt to pray AND make yourself a spreadsheet.)

But you know, different strokes and all that. It's what makes the world go 'round. It's also what makes me drink.
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: Zamboni on February 12, 2018, 02:33:33 PM
I am pretty much the only one in my family who isn't self employed. There is one really important fact about starting a new business that most people don't seem to understand: you should go into it assuming that you will not make a dime for at least the entire first year. In other words, even if you are awesome and the location is perfect, business will be slow at first, and every dime you earn will go to advertising to build a customer base, paying your employees, insurance, etc. None for you. Zero. You do not get to pay yourself.

In fact, 80% of new businesses fail within the first 18 months . . . so maybe one should plan not to make any money for two full years? How much money do you think BIL's father can afford to pour into this?

Mar 15, 2018 lhamo
Apr 1, 2018 babybug
Apr 15, 2018 expnss
May 1, 2018 neverrun
May 13, 2018 kina
June 4, 2018 Beard N Bones (Dependence Day)
July 1, 2018 Finances_With_Purpose, partygypsy
July 15, 2018 Sibley, Roe
Aug 1, 2018 Apple_Tango, ShoulderThingThatGoesUp
Aug 15, 2018 Linda_Norway
Nov 15, 2018 Zamboni
Jan 15, 2019 Yt(NO3)3
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: jinga nation on February 12, 2018, 03:07:27 PM
@frugalfoothills I'm still mad you haven't given me the dimensions of her new chest, as asked previously. :-p

Please don't tell me y'all some type of Asian. Because this story is somewhat common in Indian, Chinese, Vietnamese families. I've seen enough wrecks in friends' families (my friends were the engineers, their siblings in the medical fields).

I got to see it in person last weekend. I'd guess it's about 4 feet long by 3 feet deep... 3 foot(ish) tall.

And nope, just a bunch of dumb white people over here.

Coffin.
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: elementz_m on February 12, 2018, 11:07:08 PM
@frugalfoothills I'm still mad you haven't given me the dimensions of her new chest, as asked previously. :-p

Please don't tell me y'all some type of Asian. Because this story is somewhat common in Indian, Chinese, Vietnamese families. I've seen enough wrecks in friends' families (my friends were the engineers, their siblings in the medical fields).

I got to see it in person last weekend. I'd guess it's about 4 feet long by 3 feet deep... 3 foot(ish) tall.

And nope, just a bunch of dumb white people over here.

Coffin.

For an Oompa Loompa, maybe.
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: Linea_Norway on February 13, 2018, 12:40:33 AM
Interesting to hear about their characters. So, they are not used to be spendypants, but the education has been misleading that a new business will make you a millionaire in a year. That is so wrong, they should have taught a class on how to start a business.

@frugalfoothills: I am also a planner with contingency plans. My DH often thinks I worry too much about problems that might not even happen. But it is also a good characteristic, because at least we have a plan and think things over.

Starting a business with major investments without making a plan and a spreadsheet sounds unrealistic.

Maybe their otherwise sensible lifestyle will help them repairing their lives after the business has gone wrong.
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: Nederstash on February 13, 2018, 03:30:43 AM
Quote from: casserole_dish link=topic=86790.msg1892241#msg1892241
No no no don't stop the texts, this thread is amazing, it's like a car crash in really really slow motion, I can't look away
Indeed, although to make this more interesting, we should really start betting on when frugalfoothills' brother-in-law will ask his father for more money.

***The winner gets 10 internet points, and the pride of being right!!!***

My guess is that they will make it to January 15, 2019 before asking for more money.

I don't know why everyone is 6 months plus on this one. My guess is one month before Independence Day, in June 4th. I'm dubbing this day as Dependence Day.

Living off loans. $60/mn/person gym memberships. $50/mn rowing. Hot  yoga. New chest. Bed stuff. Surely there is more spending that we don't hear about. Yep. Dependence Day indeed.

I laughed so hard my cat mewed at me because I woke him.

ALso, this thread is glorious.
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: Nederstash on February 13, 2018, 03:55:39 AM
As for the bet, let's see if I can make a decent assumption. Let's say their spending is around 4000 a month (2k on rent, 2k everything else including student loan repayment). The business is being built for 75k, but no building ever comes in on budget. Let's hazard 85k for the business. When it's ready, it'll need inventory, furniture, decorating. Let's say 15k. That leaves 50k to live off - about a year.

They should be able to make it to Jan 2019. However, I feel that as the building's nearing finish and they start seeing pots of gold on the horizon, their spending might increase. A new car (he needs to look presentable!) or those huuuge... tracts of land (Monty Python, anyone?) (also not referring to her Oompa Loompa sized chest).

My bet is on September 29. When they realize the money isn't flowing in like it should...
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: Apple_Tango on February 13, 2018, 10:43:24 AM
@frugalfoothills I'm still mad you haven't given me the dimensions of her new chest, as asked previously. :-p

Please don't tell me y'all some type of Asian. Because this story is somewhat common in Indian, Chinese, Vietnamese families. I've seen enough wrecks in friends' families (my friends were the engineers, their siblings in the medical fields).

I got to see it in person last weekend. I'd guess it's about 4 feet long by 3 feet deep... 3 foot(ish) tall.

And nope, just a bunch of dumb white people over here.

Coffin.

For an Oompa Loompa, maybe.

Or fold your body in half? I can’t recall if yoga is imbedded into the lifestyle but I’m just going to assume it is.
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: robartsd on February 13, 2018, 03:02:35 PM
I just can’t get over building a clinic for $75K, but that’s just because I come from a world where it takes 500K-2M to build our clinics.
I believe this is $75k for tenant improvement of a leased space, not to build from ground up - just building the interior rooms - typically includes framing, electrical, drywall, cabinets, flooring, and drop ceiling (usually the space will have a bathroom already or access to bathrooms off the building lobby).
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: Cassie on February 13, 2018, 04:35:30 PM
A number of years ago when my sister did a business plan she was told expect to run in the red and not take a salary for 2-3 years.
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: frugalfoothills on February 13, 2018, 04:53:20 PM
I just can’t get over building a clinic for $75K, but that’s just because I come from a world where it takes 500K-2M to build our clinics.
I believe this is $75k for tenant improvement of a leased space, not to build from ground up - just building the interior rooms - typically includes framing, electrical, drywall, cabinets, flooring, and drop ceiling (usually the space will have a bathroom already or access to bathrooms off the building lobby).

This is correct. They’re leasing an office space in a shopping plaza, so the build-out is all interior walls, etc. They aren’t changing fundamentals like plumbing and stuff for the bathroom... I think one of the largest expenses is the x-ray room.
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: Zamboni on February 13, 2018, 06:04:47 PM
Lol, a shopping plaza . . . it just keeps getting better and better! What is the current monthly rent on the glorious commercial shopping plaza space? Inquiring minds need to know before placing their wagers.

Mar 15, 2018 lhamo
Apr 1, 2018 babybug
Apr 15, 2018 expnss
May 1, 2018 neverrun
May 13, 2018 kina
June 4, 2018 Beard N Bones (Dependence Day)
July 1, 2018 Finances_With_Purpose, partygypsy
July 15, 2018 Sibley, Roe
Aug 1, 2018 Apple_Tango, ShoulderThingThatGoesUp
Aug 15, 2018 Linda_Norway
Sept 29, 2018 Nederstash
Nov 15, 2018 Zamboni
Jan 15, 2019 Yt(NO3)3
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: penguintroopers on February 14, 2018, 10:51:09 AM
Adding my guess on July 28th, approximately 1 week before the office is supposed to open.

Mar 15, 2018 lhamo
Apr 1, 2018 babybug
Apr 15, 2018 expnss
May 1, 2018 neverrun
May 13, 2018 kina
June 4, 2018 Beard N Bones (Dependence Day)
July 1, 2018 Finances_With_Purpose, partygypsy
July 15, 2018 Sibley, Roe
July 28,2018 penguintroopers
Aug 1, 2018 Apple_Tango, ShoulderThingThatGoesUp
Aug 15, 2018 Linda_Norway
Sept 29, 2018 Nederstash
Nov 15, 2018 Zamboni
Jan 15, 2019 Yt(NO3)3
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: Apples on February 15, 2018, 11:26:27 AM
This is nuts.  Like, really nuts.
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: Miss Piggy on February 15, 2018, 05:33:13 PM
I can't watch this any longer without putting in my own guess. I'm going with Independence Day. The question will be asked during the family BBQ. (Please tell me there will be a family BBQ.)

Mar 15, 2018 lhamo
Apr 1, 2018 babybug
Apr 15, 2018 expnss
May 1, 2018 neverrun
May 13, 2018 kina
June 4, 2018 Beard N Bones (Dependence Day)
July 1, 2018 Finances_With_Purpose, partygypsy
July 4, 2018 Miss Piggy
July 15, 2018 Sibley, Roe
July 28,2018 penguintroopers
Aug 1, 2018 Apple_Tango, ShoulderThingThatGoesUp
Aug 15, 2018 Linda_Norway
Sept 29, 2018 Nederstash
Nov 15, 2018 Zamboni
Jan 15, 2019 Yt(NO3)3
[/quote]
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: robartsd on February 15, 2018, 05:58:18 PM
This is correct. They’re leasing an office space in a shopping plaza, so the build-out is all interior walls, etc. They aren’t changing fundamentals like plumbing and stuff for the bathroom... I think one of the largest expenses is the x-ray room.
I think many chiropractors refer patients to radiology clinics for x-rays if needed. Of course adding a set of in-house x-rays for every patient might be lucrative.
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: frugalfoothills on February 16, 2018, 02:50:26 PM
Great news, guys!

The sign is up on the front of the office space!!! "XXX Chiropractic" (not the real name) is in business! Well, except not really, because the inside is still just the basic framework of where walls will be eventually, and no equipment, and also no chiropractor until July at the earliest.....

But the sign is up!!!
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: Miss Piggy on February 16, 2018, 03:08:16 PM
Well, except not really, because the inside is still just the basic framework of where walls will be eventually, and no equipment, and also no chiropractor until July at the earliest.....

Minor details.
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: Check2400 on February 16, 2018, 03:15:36 PM
Mar 15, 2018 lhamo
Apr 1, 2018 babybug
Apr 15, 2018 expnss
May 1, 2018 neverrun
May 13, 2018 kina
June 4, 2018 Beard N Bones (Dependence Day)
July 1, 2018 Finances_With_Purpose, partygypsy
July 4, 2018 Miss Piggy
July 15, 2018 Sibley, Roe
July 28,2018 penguintroopers
Aug 1, 2018 Apple_Tango, ShoulderThingThatGoesUp
Aug 15, 2018 Linda_Norway
Sept 29, 2018 Nederstash
Nov 15, 2018 Zamboni
Jan 15, 2019 Yt(NO3)3

Are we doing a simple closest to the actual day, or Price is Right Rules here? 

Also, @frugalfoothills , do you feel confident you'll get word back if they get another loan?  Not that we want them to dig deeper into (a very likely going to be forgiven) 'debt,' but, you know, in the interest of science...
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: Pylortes on February 16, 2018, 10:31:35 PM
Ill go with Labor Day weekend (oh the irony), September 2nd. This is not an easy guess however as I could see building overruns will cause them to need $ a lot sooner.  However I’m going later than most for two reasons: 1. I’ll guess BIL will try to put his head down and avoid the finance problem and not admit he needs more $ for awhile and 2. I’m just hedging because so many other people picked earlier dates.   

Nobody has really mentioned the possibility of outright default rather than more $ being asked for. Why should we assume with certainty BIL is going to pass his July boards?  I give a 33% probability he will suffer strike two there.  And if he does maybe they just give up on the clinic and one or both of them get some sort of regular job.  Still I think this possibility is not likely and I hope won’t come to fruition.  I’m saying he will pass, the $ will start dwindling over the summer but they will bite their tongues and wait until the Labor Day BBQ to ask FIL for more. 
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: bugbaby on February 17, 2018, 01:48:42 AM
Great news, guys!

The sign is up on the front of the office space!!! "XXX Chiropractic" (not the real name) is in business! Well, except not really, because the inside is still just the basic framework of where walls will be eventually, and no equipment, and also no chiropractor until July at the earliest.....

But the sign is up!!!
Oh, no. That's an ominous sign. It means perhaps the budget for the construction + equipment is running low but putting up the sign is 'positive thinking' to keep up the morale.

Sent from my KIW-L24 using Tapatalk

Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: iris lily on February 17, 2018, 07:44:13 AM
Great news, guys!

The sign is up on the front of the office space!!! "XXX Chiropractic" (not the real name) is in business! Well, except not really, because the inside is still just the basic framework of where walls will be eventually, and no equipment, and also no chiropractor until July at the earliest.....

But the sign is up!!!
Oh, no. That's an ominous sign. It means perhaps the budget for the construction + equipment is running low but putting up the sign is 'positive thinking' to keep up the morale.

Sent from my KIW-L24 using Tapatalk

Yes! The sign is an inviation to Prosperity to grace their chiropractor selves with more money. Prosperity Principle works! You just have to believe it and exercise its principles! Dont let it down, now.
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: PDXTabs on February 17, 2018, 11:26:42 AM
I'm not really sold on chiropractors as legit medical professionals, but I certainly separate the ones who seem to stay within the boundary of back pain issues from the truly weird ones who think an "adjustment" can cure any disease.

They know more about your muscular/skeletal system than any MD. The one I went to told me exactly what was wrong with my back, and what exercises to do at the gym to never come back into her office. Bad for her business, but good for me.
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: iris lily on February 17, 2018, 11:51:19 AM
I'm not really sold on chiropractors as legit medical professionals, but I certainly separate the ones who seem to stay within the boundary of back pain issues from the truly weird ones who think an "adjustment" can cure any disease.

They know more about your muscular/skeletal system than any MD. The one I went to told me exactly what was wrong with my back, and what exercises to do at the gym to never come back into her office. Bad for her business, but good for me.
Or, you can go to a physical therapist (after having to run through an MD) and get similar excellent advice, without the high risk of the chrio setting up regular appointments forever into the future, selling you powders and shakes, voodooing your cancer away, etc. the thing is, they just arent consistent. If you found a good chiro, good cor you.

Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: PDXTabs on February 18, 2018, 11:09:24 AM
They know more about your muscular/skeletal system than any MD. The one I went to told me exactly what was wrong with my back, and what exercises to do at the gym to never come back into her office. Bad for her business, but good for me.
Or, you can go to a physical therapist (after having to run through an MD) and get similar excellent advice, without the high risk of the chrio setting up regular appointments forever into the future, selling you powders and shakes, voodooing your cancer away, etc. the thing is, they just arent consistent. If you found a good chiro, good cor you.

Absolutely, although as you point out you will need a referral from an MD. And insurance will only cover exactly what the MD writes up in the referral.

You don't have this problem with a  doctor of chiropracty. But yes, you will need to find one that isn't a witch doctor.
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: nick663 on February 18, 2018, 01:02:04 PM
Mar 15, 2018 lhamo
Apr 1, 2018 babybug
Apr 15, 2018 expnss
May 1, 2018 neverrun
May 13, 2018 kina
June 4, 2018 Beard N Bones (Dependence Day)
July 1, 2018 Finances_With_Purpose, partygypsy
July 4, 2018 Miss Piggy
July 6, 2018 nick663
July 15, 2018 Sibley, Roe
July 28,2018 penguintroopers
Aug 1, 2018 Apple_Tango, ShoulderThingThatGoesUp
Aug 15, 2018 Linda_Norway
Sept 29, 2018 Nederstash
Nov 15, 2018 Zamboni
Jan 15, 2019 Yt(NO3)3

Throwing my hat in the ring as well.  I'm thinking they'll wait until after the holiday to ask for more money.
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: TheGrimSqueaker on February 19, 2018, 12:18:02 PM
Great news, guys!

The sign is up on the front of the office space!!! "XXX Chiropractic" (not the real name) is in business! Well, except not really, because the inside is still just the basic framework of where walls will be eventually, and no equipment, and also no chiropractor until July at the earliest.....

But the sign is up!!!

See, here's another missed opportunity. If they named it "XXX Chiropractic", limited their clientele to the 18-and-over set, and promised a slightly naughty environment, they could more than double their prices and be well on their way to paying off that loan.
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: Zamboni on February 19, 2018, 01:00:55 PM
:-)

They could likely quadruple their prices and still have a waitlist, Squeak! They'd have to find a way to arrange "discreet parking around back," though. I'm not sure whether or not the particular strip mall (pun not intended) is arranged properly for this. Some are, but others have back-to-back business with open and highly visible parking on all sides.

Perhaps they need to invest in an underground parking deck for their clients?
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: frugalfoothills on February 19, 2018, 01:31:56 PM
Great news, guys!

The sign is up on the front of the office space!!! "XXX Chiropractic" (not the real name) is in business! Well, except not really, because the inside is still just the basic framework of where walls will be eventually, and no equipment, and also no chiropractor until July at the earliest.....

But the sign is up!!!

See, here's another missed opportunity. If they named it "XXX Chiropractic", limited their clientele to the 18-and-over set, and promised a slightly naughty environment, they could more than double their prices and be well on their way to paying off that loan.

I personally love this idea. Unfortunately I don't think it will be a hit with them. They hosted a "Prayer and Scripture Writing Event" yesterday at the [very much under construction] office space for folks to come and pray over the business... my mom said there were a fair number of political references during the event, too.

I mean, what says "foolproof business model" more than hosting a religiously and politically charged event for your fledgling business that immediately ostracizes half of your potential clientele? It's like I always say, "mix business with religion and politics whenever possible." Genius!
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: Miss Piggy on February 19, 2018, 02:58:09 PM
Great news, guys!

The sign is up on the front of the office space!!! "XXX Chiropractic" (not the real name) is in business! Well, except not really, because the inside is still just the basic framework of where walls will be eventually, and no equipment, and also no chiropractor until July at the earliest.....

But the sign is up!!!

See, here's another missed opportunity. If they named it "XXX Chiropractic", limited their clientele to the 18-and-over set, and promised a slightly naughty environment, they could more than double their prices and be well on their way to paying off that loan.

I personally love this idea. Unfortunately I don't think it will be a hit with them. They hosted a "Prayer and Scripture Writing Event" yesterday at the [very much under construction] office space for folks to come and pray over the business... my mom said there were a fair number of political references during the event, too.

I mean, what says "foolproof business model" more than hosting a religiously and politically charged event for your fledgling business that immediately ostracizes half of your potential clientele? It's like I always say, "mix business with religion and politics whenever possible." Genius!

foothills, I think they're missing the third leg of the three-legged stool of starting a business. They've got religion and politics covered, now with the XXX suggestion, they can bring sex into the discussion. Once they've got all three of those "bring up at every opportunity" topics covered, business will BOOM!!!!
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: frugalfoothills on February 20, 2018, 11:52:44 AM
Great news, guys!

The sign is up on the front of the office space!!! "XXX Chiropractic" (not the real name) is in business! Well, except not really, because the inside is still just the basic framework of where walls will be eventually, and no equipment, and also no chiropractor until July at the earliest.....

But the sign is up!!!

See, here's another missed opportunity. If they named it "XXX Chiropractic", limited their clientele to the 18-and-over set, and promised a slightly naughty environment, they could more than double their prices and be well on their way to paying off that loan.

I personally love this idea. Unfortunately I don't think it will be a hit with them. They hosted a "Prayer and Scripture Writing Event" yesterday at the [very much under construction] office space for folks to come and pray over the business... my mom said there were a fair number of political references during the event, too.

I mean, what says "foolproof business model" more than hosting a religiously and politically charged event for your fledgling business that immediately ostracizes half of your potential clientele? It's like I always say, "mix business with religion and politics whenever possible." Genius!

foothills, I think they're missing the third leg of the three-legged stool of starting a business. They've got religion and politics covered, now with the XXX suggestion, they can bring sex into the discussion. Once they've got all three of those "bring up at every opportunity" topics covered, business will BOOM!!!!

I know personally when I'm shopping around for a chiropractor, I prefer one who will:

Foolproof plan for success!
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: nick663 on February 20, 2018, 08:50:50 PM
  • Berate me with politically charged rhetoric (why don't poor people just BUY more money, am I right?????)
Please tell me that's a real quote.  I don't like to cheer for other people to fail but that just might push me over the edge.
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: talltexan on February 21, 2018, 01:54:44 PM
it's a rough translation a speech (in Italian) by Berlusconi.
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: Primm on February 23, 2018, 03:53:52 AM

Mar 15, 2018 lhamo
Apr 1, 2018 babybug
Apr 11, 2018 Primm
Apr 15, 2018 expnss
May 1, 2018 neverrun
May 13, 2018 kina
June 4, 2018 Beard N Bones (Dependence Day)
July 1, 2018 Finances_With_Purpose, partygypsy
July 4, 2018 Miss Piggy
July 6, 2018 nick663
July 15, 2018 Sibley, Roe
July 28,2018 penguintroopers
Aug 1, 2018 Apple_Tango, ShoulderThingThatGoesUp
Aug 15, 2018 Linda_Norway
Sept 29, 2018 Nederstash
Nov 15, 2018 Zamboni
Jan 15, 2019 Yt(NO3)3

Because I'm Australian, and apparently we'd bet on two flies crawling up a wall, here's mine. I'm not as optimistic as some.
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: MightyAl on February 23, 2018, 07:33:17 AM
Great news, guys!

The sign is up on the front of the office space!!! "XXX Chiropractic" (not the real name) is in business! Well, except not really, because the inside is still just the basic framework of where walls will be eventually, and no equipment, and also no chiropractor until July at the earliest.....

But the sign is up!!!

See, here's another missed opportunity. If they named it "XXX Chiropractic", limited their clientele to the 18-and-over set, and promised a slightly naughty environment, they could more than double their prices and be well on their way to paying off that loan.

Wasn't this a Seinfeld episode with the adult only themed dentist office? 
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: BigLumox on March 06, 2018, 12:00:56 PM
Any updates? Are they millionaires yet?
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: MrMoneyMullet on March 09, 2018, 10:12:15 PM
Any updates? Are they millionaires yet?

frugalfoothills is probably busy enjoying her free house on her free, large plot of land by now. Give her a bit and she'll be back with an update.
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: K-ice on March 09, 2018, 10:37:34 PM
I didn’t read all the posts yet.

I knew a Cp who booked every 7 min. So that’s slightly more than 8 patients/hour.

I think they can charge about $80 a visit. (Insurance might not cover all of that but people pay out of pocket here for the difference.)

Working 40h/week, 50 weeks a year.

8*40*50*$80 = $1,280,000.

Minus expenses of course & they need to build up a clientele.

But that’s maybe the math the school taught them.

Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: MrMoneyMullet on March 09, 2018, 10:45:25 PM
I knew a Cp who booked every 7 min. So that’s slightly more than 8 patients/hour.

I think they can charge about $80 a visit. (Insurance might not cover all of that but people pay out of pocket here for the difference.)

Working 40h/week, 50 weeks a year.

8*40*50*$80 = $1,280,000.

I knew this would have a Happy Ending, one way or another.
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: Nederstash on March 22, 2018, 01:17:08 PM
Any updates? Are they millionaires yet?

frugalfoothills is probably busy enjoying her free house on her free, large plot of land by now. Give her a bit and she'll be back with an update.

I'm itching for an update as well.
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: KodeBlue on March 23, 2018, 06:20:10 AM

I knew this would have a Happy Ending, one way or another.

If they did offer chiro w/ a "happy ending" they might become millionaires.
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: jinga nation on March 23, 2018, 09:33:00 AM

I knew this would have a Happy Ending, one way or another.

If they did offer chiro w/ a "happy ending" they might become millionaires.
They'd have endless queues if they use the salon techniques in "You Don't Mess with the Zohan".
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: Seradoc on March 23, 2018, 01:10:58 PM

I knew this would have a Happy Ending, one way or another.

If they did offer chiro w/ a "happy ending" they might become millionaires.

Maintaining consistent 7 minute happy endings seems ambitious.
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: elementz_m on March 23, 2018, 01:13:35 PM

I knew this would have a Happy Ending, one way or another.

If they did offer chiro w/ a "happy ending" they might become millionaires.

Maintaining consistent 7 minute happy endings seems ambitious.

No, it's OK. They only provide the last 30 seconds. That's all anyone's in for.
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: frugalfoothills on March 29, 2018, 02:30:55 PM
Update on the soon to be millionaires: rolling into April, still 2 months away from BIL re-taking the licensing exam. Still a distinct possibility that he might not pass. As it stands now, earliest opening date is August. If he doesn't pass, it will mean re-taking again, and pushing earliest opening date back to November.

Money situation is still baffling to everyone except sister, BIL, and his parents. Sister got a job teaching spin classes 1x a week at the local gym. Better than nothing I guess? God is still telling them not to work. I wish that was a joke... she literally told me that any time she thinks about applying for jobs, she hears God's voice telling her to "just wait."

Also, they just purchased a riding lawnmower. To cut the lawn at the house that they're renting. Seems necessary.
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: Sibley on March 29, 2018, 02:47:53 PM
Interesting. When will BIL get the results from his exam? If he fails, a lot will depend on the inlaw's reactions - they're bankrolling this.
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: iris lily on March 29, 2018, 08:26:51 PM
I love this thread. It gives me life.

We are serious gardeners with many plots of land to mow, granted, they are small plots around the city. But gosh darn it golly gee, we didnt buy a riding mower until this year when we bought a house with one acre. We are 63 years old. I think we can give ourselves permission to have that rider now.

Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: GrayGhost on March 29, 2018, 09:49:06 PM
Money situation is still baffling to everyone except sister, BIL, and his parents. Sister got a job teaching spin classes 1x a week at the local gym. Better than nothing I guess? God is still telling them not to work. I wish that was a joke... she literally told me that any time she thinks about applying for jobs, she hears God's voice telling her to "just wait."

Words fail me.
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: marty998 on March 29, 2018, 11:23:11 PM
Did they finance or lease the mower?
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: penguintroopers on March 30, 2018, 12:13:33 AM
she literally told me that any time she thinks about applying for jobs, she hears God's voice telling her to "just wait."

Phew boy. If the poop hits the fan, it's gonna hit hard.
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: Davnasty on March 30, 2018, 12:18:22 PM
Also, they just purchased a riding lawnmower. To cut the lawn at the house that they're renting. Seems necessary.

Well that’s just common fucking sense.

How big is the yard?

I want to know not because a big yard would justify this, but because a small yard would make it that much funnier. You know, in a painful I fear for the future of humanity kinda way.
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: bluebelle on March 30, 2018, 12:31:07 PM
Update on the soon to be millionaires: rolling into April, still 2 months away from BIL re-taking the licensing exam. Still a distinct possibility that he might not pass. As it stands now, earliest opening date is August. If he doesn't pass, it will mean re-taking again, and pushing earliest opening date back to November.

Money situation is still baffling to everyone except sister, BIL, and his parents. Sister got a job teaching spin classes 1x a week at the local gym. Better than nothing I guess? God is still telling them not to work. I wish that was a joke... she literally told me that any time she thinks about applying for jobs, she hears God's voice telling her to "just wait."

Also, they just purchased a riding lawnmower. To cut the lawn at the house that they're renting. Seems necessary.
If God speaks to her, won't God whisper the exam answers to him, thus guaranteeing a pass.

of course, hearing voices speaking to you is a symptom of Schizophrenia....  just saying.  But it convenient that God only tells her things whe wants to hear.
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: I'm a red panda on March 30, 2018, 12:39:02 PM
I'm not really sold on chiropractors as legit medical professionals, but I certainly separate the ones who seem to stay within the boundary of back pain issues from the truly weird ones who think an "adjustment" can cure any disease.

They know more about your muscular/skeletal system than any MD. The one I went to told me exactly what was wrong with my back, and what exercises to do at the gym to never come back into her office. Bad for her business, but good for me.
Or, you can go to a physical therapist (after having to run through an MD) and get similar excellent advice, without the high risk of the chrio setting up regular appointments forever into the future, selling you powders and shakes, voodooing your cancer away, etc. the thing is, they just arent consistent. If you found a good chiro, good cor you.

I don't  go to a chiropracter, but my copay for a chiro is half that of a PT (who is considered a specialist; a chiro is considered a primary care)- and I can have unlimited annual at a chiro, but I have to have a prescription and am limited to 20 visits at a PT.  So insurance isn't helping here!
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: Nederstash on March 31, 2018, 01:33:06 PM
Update on the soon to be millionaires: rolling into April, still 2 months away from BIL re-taking the licensing exam. Still a distinct possibility that he might not pass. As it stands now, earliest opening date is August. If he doesn't pass, it will mean re-taking again, and pushing earliest opening date back to November.

Money situation is still baffling to everyone except sister, BIL, and his parents. Sister got a job teaching spin classes 1x a week at the local gym. Better than nothing I guess? God is still telling them not to work. I wish that was a joke... she literally told me that any time she thinks about applying for jobs, she hears God's voice telling her to "just wait."

Also, they just purchased a riding lawnmower. To cut the lawn at the house that they're renting. Seems necessary.

And the Lord said unto them: Do not work, for thine elders shall cashflow thine lifestyle, so that thee may sit back on thine lawnmower not doing a fuck. Blessed are the spin class teachers.
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: TheGrimSqueaker on March 31, 2018, 02:59:26 PM
Update on the soon to be millionaires: rolling into April, still 2 months away from BIL re-taking the licensing exam. Still a distinct possibility that he might not pass. As it stands now, earliest opening date is August. If he doesn't pass, it will mean re-taking again, and pushing earliest opening date back to November.

Money situation is still baffling to everyone except sister, BIL, and his parents. Sister got a job teaching spin classes 1x a week at the local gym. Better than nothing I guess? God is still telling them not to work. I wish that was a joke... she literally told me that any time she thinks about applying for jobs, she hears God's voice telling her to "just wait."

Also, they just purchased a riding lawnmower. To cut the lawn at the house that they're renting. Seems necessary.

And the Lord said unto them: Do not work, for thine elders shall cashflow thine lifestyle, so that thee may sit back on thine lawnmower not doing a fuck. Blessed are the spin class teachers.

Then the lilies of the field have one up on them.
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: Apple_Tango on March 31, 2018, 09:16:00 PM
Excellent update! I am so wondering if passing this test is a matter of studying? Like most tests are? And if so....he should pass right? I mean, lack of time for studying shouldn’t be an issue  now that there is a riding lawn mower in the picture, he can study his books while he rides around the yard. It’s a logical investment, really. Plus with god on their side,  nothing will go wrong.

 *just wait* -God.
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: calimom on March 31, 2018, 09:55:50 PM
Update on the soon to be millionaires: rolling into April, still 2 months away from BIL re-taking the licensing exam. Still a distinct possibility that he might not pass. As it stands now, earliest opening date is August. If he doesn't pass, it will mean re-taking again, and pushing earliest opening date back to November.

Money situation is still baffling to everyone except sister, BIL, and his parents. Sister got a job teaching spin classes 1x a week at the local gym. Better than nothing I guess? God is still telling them not to work. I wish that was a joke... she literally told me that any time she thinks about applying for jobs, she hears God's voice telling her to "just wait."

Also, they just purchased a riding lawnmower. To cut the lawn at the house that they're renting. Seems necessary.

And the Lord said unto them: Do not work, for thine elders shall cashflow thine lifestyle, so that thee may sit back on thine lawnmower not doing a fuck. Blessed are the spin class teachers.

Well it's called Soul Cycle for a reason.

Good thing she doesn't listen to the God that would suggest a part time job. Heaven forbid.
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: AnnaGrowsAMustache on April 01, 2018, 03:36:33 PM
Update on the soon to be millionaires: rolling into April, still 2 months away from BIL re-taking the licensing exam. Still a distinct possibility that he might not pass. As it stands now, earliest opening date is August. If he doesn't pass, it will mean re-taking again, and pushing earliest opening date back to November.

Money situation is still baffling to everyone except sister, BIL, and his parents. Sister got a job teaching spin classes 1x a week at the local gym. Better than nothing I guess? God is still telling them not to work. I wish that was a joke... she literally told me that any time she thinks about applying for jobs, she hears God's voice telling her to "just wait."

Also, they just purchased a riding lawnmower. To cut the lawn at the house that they're renting. Seems necessary.

There's a bus sized hunk of brown stuff heading towards a great big whirly thing as we speak....
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: ScreamingHeadGuy on April 01, 2018, 04:29:45 PM
Update on the soon to be millionaires: rolling into April, still 2 months away from BIL re-taking the licensing exam. Still a distinct possibility that he might not pass. As it stands now, earliest opening date is August. If he doesn't pass, it will mean re-taking again, and pushing earliest opening date back to November.

Money situation is still baffling to everyone except sister, BIL, and his parents. Sister got a job teaching spin classes 1x a week at the local gym. Better than nothing I guess? God is still telling them not to work. I wish that was a joke... she literally told me that any time she thinks about applying for jobs, she hears God's voice telling her to "just wait."

Also, they just purchased a riding lawnmower. To cut the lawn at the house that they're renting. Seems necessary.

And the Lord said unto them: Do not work, for thine elders shall cashflow thine lifestyle, so that thee may sit back on thine lawnmower not doing a fuck. Blessed are the spin class teachers.


Thank you Nederstash.
Bless you!


When it hits the fan God will say "Don't blame this shit on Me.  Your misinterpretation of My words is your own fault."
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: Just Joe on April 02, 2018, 08:51:14 AM
Is it a riding mower ($1500) or a Riding Mower ($15000)? I had no idea you could spend ten grand plus on a riding mower until a few years ago.
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: frugalfoothills on April 02, 2018, 10:27:54 AM
Did they finance or lease the mower?

Well, I suppose they technically paid cash for it. But that cash came from the loan that father-in-law gave them to start the business, so I believe that's technically financed. Whether you borrow money from the lawnmower store, or you borrow money from your FIL and use it to pay the lawnmower store, the money is still borrowed. This concept continues to evade them.
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: frugalfoothills on April 02, 2018, 10:36:06 AM
Couple questions about the lawnmower, so I will answer them here:

In other news, my parents went to visit them yesterday for Easter. I sat that one out as I'm not religious myself, but apparently there were a couple of gems during the post-church BBQ.
"We are seriously considering buying this house. We need to talk to the landlord about what she would sell it for." 
"There's plenty of space to add an addition off the back!"
"We are going to get a cabin in the mountains. We would rather have a mountain house than a beach house."

As a commenter said upthread... Blessed are the spin class teachers!
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: Maenad on April 02, 2018, 11:20:38 AM
she literally told me that any time she thinks about applying for jobs, she hears God's voice telling her to "just wait."

Honestly, when I read this, I heard the mom from A Christmas Story saying, "Just you wait until your father gets home - you're gonna get it!"

Or maybe God is telling her to wait so he could tell some of the other deities, "Hold my beer and watch this".
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: Davnasty on April 02, 2018, 01:57:33 PM
she literally told me that any time she thinks about applying for jobs, she hears God's voice telling her to "just wait."

Honestly, when I read this, I heard the mom from A Christmas Story saying, "Just you wait until your father gets home - you're gonna get it!"

Or maybe God is telling her to wait so he could tell some of the other deities, "Hold my beer and watch this".

Or maybe God is reading this thread and really wants to see where this is going.
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: partgypsy on April 02, 2018, 03:08:23 PM
she literally told me that any time she thinks about applying for jobs, she hears God's voice telling her to "just wait."

Honestly, when I read this, I heard the mom from A Christmas Story saying, "Just you wait until your father gets home - you're gonna get it!"

Or maybe God is telling her to wait so he could tell some of the other deities, "Hold my beer and watch this".

Or maybe God is reading this thread and really wants to see where this is going.

lol
This thread is entertaining to me, in a train wreck kind of way.
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: calimom on April 03, 2018, 04:02:35 PM
Plus I'm sure that if there is a god s/he is super concerned about some delusional woman's job status. Is their god also an employment counselor? Nice that god can work that in what with all the wars, diseases, natural disasters and mass shootings.
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: FIPurpose on April 05, 2018, 07:03:18 AM
Posting to follow. Great story going on. Can't wait to see how it ends in a couple months.
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: barbaz on April 05, 2018, 07:56:55 AM
Is their god also an employment counselor? Nice that god can work that in what with all the wars, diseases, natural disasters and mass shootings.
And the cataracts of Sam‘s mum
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: LittleWanderer on April 05, 2018, 08:24:58 AM
Holy shit, this thread is comedy gold. 

I'm going to throw my hat into the ring and guess August 15th.
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: Basenji on April 05, 2018, 10:32:13 AM
Couple questions about the lawnmower, so I will answer them here:
  • We (my parents & I) believe they bought the mower secondhand, but we have no real reason to think this. At this point we just tell ourselves things to make ourselves feel better. "Well, surely they bought it used..... surely.........."

Ok, caught up.

First, I love you snarky bunch. As I was laughing at various posts, I felt a wave of affection for you all.

Second, on the bolded bit above, this made me laugh so hard because DH and I do this all the time regarding his siblings. "Surely they are ashamed to be taking money from your parents and spending it on X." "Surely they will realize that they can't keep going constantly to jam band concerts when they are just coming out of bankruptcy?" "Surely they will stop buying X..."
Surely...

Third, my bet is they will ask for more money September 1. I also bet that BIL will fail his retake of the test. I mean, I hope he doesn't, but IDK, God whispered in my ear...
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: avalanchecity on April 05, 2018, 12:20:40 PM
i'm going to hazard a september 15, 2018 guess - if the new opening date is in august, it'll give them just enough time to realize that they aren't flooded with enough clients to support their lifestyle yet. only temporary, i'm sure!

on the one hand, i feel kind of mean for enjoying this whole thing as much as i do -- but on the other, honestly, how can two intelligent, presumably mature adults feel so comfortable betting so much money (that doesn't belong to them!) on something so uncertain at this point? i guess that's where the religious aspect comes in.
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: patchyfacialhair on April 05, 2018, 02:34:51 PM
If August is the best-case-scenario month for an opening date, I put the "ask for more money date" at September 1st.

Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: Boll weevil on April 05, 2018, 04:10:17 PM
I'm thinking the "ask for more money" date will be a holiday or right around one. My guess is Thanksgiving, November 22.
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: robartsd on April 05, 2018, 04:18:17 PM
I'm thinking the "ask for more money" date will be a holiday or right around one. My guess is Thanksgiving, November 22.
Labor day is September 3rd.
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: MissNancyPryor on April 05, 2018, 05:03:23 PM
I think they are going to ask for more money well before the opening, because you know, expenses. 

Fair trade chiro tables.  Organic linens.  Bleach-free business cards. 

I will guess that they will be coming up light on cashola right about Memorial Day.   

 
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: frugalfoothills on April 11, 2018, 08:40:06 AM
I think what we (me, my parents) have realized is that they feel no heartburn about the ridiculous amount of borrowed money because the father-in-law (lender of the cash) feels no heartburn about lending it. I think it's becoming clear to us that there is virtually no risk here for them, because the in-laws will just continue to support them through any disaster that comes their way. BIL fails his boards again? No worries, just float them for another 6 months. Practice opens and not enough cash flow? No worries, just float them until they're in the black. I don't get the feeling that there's any stress from any party. It's all sunshine and rainbows over there.

They're currently on vacation for a week with the in-laws, taking a much-deserved break. They'll be back on Saturday, and then they'll be jetting off to TN on Sunday for another week-long vacation (a friend from chiropractic school is opening his practice in TN and they're going for the grand opening.) I'm thinking the first week of his practice opening might give them a look at what the first week(s) of THEIR practice opening might look like, and re-calibrate their expectations a little. I can't imagine people will be busting down the door on day 1. After that, they've got another 2-week vacation planned in June. Gotta get that R&R!

Also unclear about the status of the sister's new "job" with the spin class. Hard to lead spin classes when you're out of state for a month!
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: Basenji on April 11, 2018, 08:45:57 AM
In a good mood this morning, so here's my wish (not my prediction, my wish): that these hippy-dippy, whatevs open their business, it goes great, they pay back the loan money, everyone is happy, and we curmudgeonly skeptics are all proved wrong.

hahahahahahahahahahahaha
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: avalanchecity on April 11, 2018, 08:50:16 AM
I think they are going to ask for more money well before the opening, because you know, expenses. 

Fair trade chiro tables.  Organic linens.  Bleach-free business cards. 

I will guess that they will be coming up light on cashola right about Memorial Day.   

 

i started to laugh at the thought of fair trade chiro tables, and then realized that someone, somewhere (probably on instagram) is probably already making them. what a world.
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: Davnasty on April 11, 2018, 12:28:03 PM
I think what we (me, my parents) have realized is that they feel no heartburn about the ridiculous amount of borrowed money because the father-in-law (lender of the cash) feels no heartburn about lending it. I think it's becoming clear to us that there is virtually no risk here for them, because the in-laws will just continue to support them through any disaster that comes their way. BIL fails his boards again? No worries, just float them for another 6 months. Practice opens and not enough cash flow? No worries, just float them until they're in the black. I don't get the feeling that there's any stress from any party. It's all sunshine and rainbows over there.

They're currently on vacation for a week with the in-laws, taking a much-deserved break. They'll be back on Saturday, and then they'll be jetting off to TN on Sunday for another week-long vacation (a friend from chiropractic school is opening his practice in TN and they're going for the grand opening.) I'm thinking the first week of his practice opening might give them a look at what the first week(s) of THEIR practice opening might look like, and re-calibrate their expectations a little. I can't imagine people will be busting down the door on day 1. After that, they've got another 2-week vacation planned in June. Gotta get that R&R!

Also unclear about the status of the sister's new "job" with the spin class. Hard to lead spin classes when you're out of state for a month!

Regardless of the money situation, I don't know if I could take multiple vacations away from not working and enjoy myself. The guilt of seeing my friends and family working full time jobs would be too much. Then again...
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: Nederstash on April 13, 2018, 10:13:04 AM
Also unclear about the status of the sister's new "job" with the spin class. Hard to lead spin classes when you're out of state for a month!

God told her not to work, so I guess it's better for her to be on holiday?
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: Linea_Norway on April 13, 2018, 10:26:28 AM
Regardless of the money situation, I don't know if I could take multiple vacations away from not working and enjoy myself. The guilt of seeing my friends and family working full time jobs would be too much. Then again...

Then I presume you don't want to FIRE?

We are weird anyway. I feel guilty when I am on an extra vacation, because there is so much to do at work. While the reason that I can take up an extra week of vacation is having a pile of overtime. I can't wait to be FI and do the following RE.
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: avalanchecity on April 13, 2018, 10:33:56 AM
Regardless of the money situation, I don't know if I could take multiple vacations away from not working and enjoy myself. The guilt of seeing my friends and family working full time jobs would be too much. Then again...

Then I presume you don't want to FIRE?


i assumed dabnasty meant that they couldn't see taking vacation from not working using someone else's money - if dad is supporting you, not your own job or FI, and you claim you need a vacation to get away from it all...i would have a hard time not feeling guilty about that, too!

edited, because i put the wrong name while typing distractedly
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: Davnasty on April 13, 2018, 12:09:26 PM
Regardless of the money situation, I don't know if I could take multiple vacations away from not working and enjoy myself. The guilt of seeing my friends and family working full time jobs would be too much. Then again...

Then I presume you don't want to FIRE?

We are weird anyway. I feel guilty when I am on an extra vacation, because there is so much to do at work. While the reason that I can take up an extra week of vacation is having a pile of overtime. I can't wait to be FI and do the following RE.

I have no idea what I want to do, just gonna see what happens :)

But I did mean vacation as in traveling to a place and staying in a hotel kind of vacation. Plus, even if I FIREd I anticipate "working" on projects that may or may not create income. I did question myself when I wrote this hence the "then again..."
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: FIREmydebt on April 13, 2018, 02:59:04 PM
Posting to follow-- this whole thread had me laughing!  And terrified for this couple.
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: frugalfoothills on April 25, 2018, 11:39:50 AM
Things are not looking up for the Future Millionaires (at least, from my perspective.) Newest bad decision is that my sister is getting wrapped up in an MLM. A chiropractor-turned-SAHM is peddling a new non-toxic makeup brand all over Facebook, and naturally my sister is getting sucked in. She's hosting a "workshop" on Facebook this week about why this makeup brand is amazing, and I'm assuming it is only a matter of [short] time before she starts buying product to sell herself.
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: MarciaB on April 25, 2018, 11:57:20 AM
OMG!! Just when you thought it couldn't get any worse...can you tell us the MLM brand?
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: frugalfoothills on April 25, 2018, 12:28:22 PM
OMG!! Just when you thought it couldn't get any worse...can you tell us the MLM brand?

A makeup called Crunchi, I think? I looked at their website and it actually seems like they offer a pretty nice product with truly clean ingredients (hard to find in cosmetics.) Too bad I won't support an MLM on principle.
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: Just Joe on April 25, 2018, 12:40:38 PM
From afar the MLM sound hilarious. Your SIL finds a new brand, falls in love and immediately wants to get out there and teach the world about how wonderful it is.... Typical MLM I'm sure.

I have things that I'm really enthusiastic about but no public "pontificating" until after the "long term testing". ;)
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: Slee_stack on April 25, 2018, 01:30:34 PM
Maybe God uses Crunchi?   God did say to 'just wait' afterall.  Maybe divine makeup is what He was referring to and this astute business couple won't even have to open a clinic afterall!

All this idle time was merely part of God's plan!  Its miraculous how things work out.
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: Beard N Bones on April 25, 2018, 01:45:12 PM
my sister is getting wrapped up in an MLM.

This hurts my head.  It makes me angry and nauseous all at the same time.
Go ahead and be financially illiterate and irresponsible - but don't commit financial suicide by getting involved with a MLM.
Why can't people do the math and come to the conclusion that MLMs are not a business to get involved with?
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: patchyfacialhair on April 25, 2018, 01:48:09 PM
my sister is getting wrapped up in an MLM.

...
be financially illiterate and...
do the math...

Well there's your problem right there.
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: Cezil on April 25, 2018, 01:53:24 PM
I am so curious to see what happens with this story!  Regarding the MLM world she is being sucked in to, it's interesting that it's being peddled by a chiropractor-turned-SAHM.  SAHM because of a new child, or because the chiro business wasn't bringing home the bacon?  Do you think perhaps there's a light-bulb desperately trying to flicker on above her/their heads, and the potential to dive in to MLM territory may be their semi-realization that "Hey, maybe this first plan might not work out as originally intended (like the SAHM)..we need a back up plan?" and she's feeling some pressure to get a job of some sorts to bring in some money?  The MLM is just a misguided attempt?
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: frugalfoothills on April 25, 2018, 02:17:24 PM
my sister is getting wrapped up in an MLM.

This hurts my head.  It makes me angry and nauseous all at the same time.
Go ahead and be financially illiterate and irresponsible - but don't commit financial suicide by getting involved with a MLM.
Why can't people do the math and come to the conclusion that MLMs are not a business to get involved with?

Why do the math when hashtags on the internet are telling you you can #beyourownboss #girlboss #beyourownCEO?

I've never understood why these women believe they are the CEO of their own company, while working for a company with an actual CEO. ??????????
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: TheGrimSqueaker on April 25, 2018, 02:31:39 PM
my sister is getting wrapped up in an MLM.

This hurts my head.  It makes me angry and nauseous all at the same time.
Go ahead and be financially illiterate and irresponsible - but don't commit financial suicide by getting involved with a MLM.
Why can't people do the math and come to the conclusion that MLMs are not a business to get involved with?

Why do the math when hashtags on the internet are telling you you can #beyourownboss #girlboss #beyourownCEO?

I've never understood why these women believe they are the CEO of their own company, while working for a company with an actual CEO. ??????????

It's because they have no idea what a CEO actually does. They can spell CEO, so they think that gives them business acumen. Besides, a hashtag is also called a "number sign", so using lots of them makes them think they're good with numbers.
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: talltexan on April 26, 2018, 07:20:05 AM
I just had to listen to the quarterly earnings conference call of Ford motor company for work yesterday (it's a duty I asked for because the wife owns 400 shares). Really gives you a renewed respect for how hard it is to be a CEO of a company that size.
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: FI40 on April 26, 2018, 09:03:04 AM
Just seeing this thread now, and posting to follow. It certainly seems like a disaster waiting to happen, but people can always learn and change their ways, especially with a safety net like they have. How long do you figure the in-laws will bankroll their lifestyle and business before cutting them off or slowing them down? I mean, I may have missed it but we don't know if FIL is struggling to get by as well, or is a multimillionaire.
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: Tuskalusa on April 26, 2018, 09:28:45 AM
This thread is as good as and TV drama. Can’t wait to hear what happens next with the Future Millionaires!
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: tomsang on April 26, 2018, 11:36:25 AM
Wow!!!  Crazy thread.  I feel bad about laughing about all the updates and the snarky replies.  I hope the OP is enjoying this vs. feeling worse about her sister and BIL. 

I feel like I have an advantage on the date as I just found this thread and have more info then many when they picked their dates.  I am going to throw out July 7th.  They are not going to want to beg for money or let the family know that their amazing venture is not going well on July 4th.  They will throw some hints to moneybags, but the big discussion is going to occur on Saturday the 7th.

The part that was confusing (most of it because nothing makes sense to a Mustachian mind), was that he has not passed the state test boards.  That also explains why he "can't" work.  Do you get a sense that he is cracking the books hard?  Do you get a sense if the school that they went to sets them up for failure.  IE teaching them cray cray beliefs vs. what is on the boards?  If the board give an example of someone wanting help for cancer.  Will they answer the board certified way that they would refer them or recommend that they go to see an Oncologist or whatever the main stream answer would be or would they fill in the blank to use a healing crystal and a spinal adjustment?   

I assume that these folks have no credit or bad credit.  Did the landlord require Father In Law to co-sign on the lease?  How long are they on the hook?  5 years?

My personality would be to have a sit down with my family member. I would have guilt if I saw this train wreck occurring and just sat their quietly.  After airing my concerns, I would not harp on it, but I would personally need to let them know that this is troubling on many fronts.

Thanks for keeping this thread updated.  It is very interesting if not a bit disturbing.  I hope that they don't lose his parents over this cluster.
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: Slee_stack on April 26, 2018, 12:13:48 PM
While they will undoubtedly become Future Millionaires [insert extreme eyeroll emoji]....

...they kind of already are living the 'Millionaire' lifestyle today...

vacations.... from leisure...
...a house and (loosely termed) 'work' space...that will open 'someday'...
...a lawnmower to save them all the time they aren't using...

All on someone else's income/savings.  Thanks pop!

I wonder if we only got a snippet earlier when the wife mentioned that God told her to just wait....

....for FIL's next check..... perhaps?


Should we call this lifestyle disconnect being a....Millionaide?



Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: Laura33 on April 26, 2018, 02:24:52 PM
This is far and away my favorite guilty pleasure thread.  Every time I see a new post, I want to grab the popcorn and settle in.  And it truly does just keep on giving.  Thank you, thank you.

Ok, as a reasonable human being, I do hope they get their shit together and grow up and don’t get taken for a ride more than they already have.  But does it make me a bad person to want to enjoy the ride for as long as they continue to ostrich?
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: Davnasty on April 26, 2018, 02:36:57 PM
I don't feel bad laughing. As long as they really are as oblivious as they seem, they're loving life right now.

When and if reality hits, I will feel bad for them. Best case scenario - reality will straighten them out and the hole they've dug won't ruin their financial life forever but I do want them to struggle for at least a bit to get back on their feet. Best case scenario seems unlikely though...
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: Kay-Ell on April 26, 2018, 04:32:29 PM
This is my favorite thread too!  And of course it makes us bad people for laughing, but do we care?  I like to imagine someone in my family is on another board somewhere talking about my crazy financial decisions, and all of the other forum members think I'm a lunatic.

"Then she quit her job, and buys everything from yard sales and craigslist!  And when I asked what she planned to do if the economy goes belly up, she just shrugged her shoulders and said she guesses she'd have to find a way to earn money!  But when she was actually offered another job, did she take it?  No, she turned it down saying she didn't think she'd need the money.  And bear in mind this person is not a multi-millionaire.  Like AT ALL!  But somehow she's deluded herself into thinking she can live off of savings and real estate investments, because "frugality!"
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: mausmaus on April 26, 2018, 08:39:51 PM
Back in my day, we used to call this # a pound sign... which incidentally gives new meaning to the "me too" movement.

Not cool, man
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: Linea_Norway on April 26, 2018, 11:24:53 PM
This is my favorite thread too!  And of course it makes us bad people for laughing, but do we care?  I like to imagine someone in my family is on another board somewhere talking about my crazy financial decisions, and all of the other forum members think I'm a lunatic.

"Then she quit her job, and buys everything from yard sales and craigslist!  And when I asked what she planned to do if the economy goes belly up, she just shrugged her shoulders and said she guesses she'd have to find a way to earn money!  But when she was actually offered another job, did she take it?  No, she turned it down saying she didn't think she'd need the money.  And bear in mind this person is not a multi-millionaire.  Like AT ALL!  But somehow she's deluded herself into thinking she can live off of savings and real estate investments, because "frugality!"

:-D
That is a very good analogy.
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: barbaz on April 27, 2018, 12:16:03 AM
This is my favorite thread too!  And of course it makes us bad people for laughing, but do we care?  I like to imagine someone in my family is on another board somewhere talking about my crazy financial decisions, and all of the other forum members think I'm a lunatic.

"Then she quit her job, and buys everything from yard sales and craigslist!  And when I asked what she planned to do if the economy goes belly up, she just shrugged her shoulders and said she guesses she'd have to find a way to earn money!  But when she was actually offered another job, did she take it?  No, she turned it down saying she didn't think she'd need the money.  And bear in mind this person is not a multi-millionaire.  Like AT ALL!  But somehow she's deluded herself into thinking she can live off of savings and real estate investments, because "frugality!"

:-D
That is a very good analogy.
Please tell me this place exists
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: talltexan on April 27, 2018, 08:07:32 AM
Sometimes these things work out. eighteen months ago I was exasperated by my BIL and SIL buying a house that was utterly extravagant and monstrous when compared with their incomes. What was particularly disorienting was my MIL--who'd always criticized my household for spending too much and irresponsibly taking on debt--suddenly seemed to think her son was his generation's Ben Graham for finding a zero percent financing deal on a lawn mower.

But I just checked zillow today, and they've already got about $40,000 of extra equity. That will pay for a lot of lawn mowers.
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: I'm a red panda on April 27, 2018, 08:10:16 AM
Sometimes these things work out. eighteen months ago I was exasperated by my BIL and SIL buying a house that was utterly extravagant and monstrous when compared with their incomes. What was particularly disorienting was my MIL--who'd always criticized my household for spending too much and irresponsibly taking on debt--suddenly seemed to think her son was his generation's Ben Graham for finding a zero percent financing deal on a lawn mower.

But I just checked zillow today, and they've already got about $40,000 of extra equity. That will pay for a lot of lawn mowers.

Equity doesn't pay for anything unless they sell it though.

All it does is mean property taxes are higher.
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: TheGrimSqueaker on April 27, 2018, 08:49:16 AM
Sometimes these things work out. eighteen months ago I was exasperated by my BIL and SIL buying a house that was utterly extravagant and monstrous when compared with their incomes. What was particularly disorienting was my MIL--who'd always criticized my household for spending too much and irresponsibly taking on debt--suddenly seemed to think her son was his generation's Ben Graham for finding a zero percent financing deal on a lawn mower.

But I just checked zillow today, and they've already got about $40,000 of extra equity. That will pay for a lot of lawn mowers.

Equity doesn't pay for anything unless they sell it though.

All it does is mean property taxes are higher.

Unless of course they refinance to pull some of that equity out. That move was common during the last big housing boom because interest rates were low enough to make people think they could get a better ROI elsewhere. Second mortgages or lines of credit were common. The risk is that if housing values fall the heavily leveraged homeowner will be underwater. Also, there was a problem with appraisers artificially inflating the value of the home for refinancing purposes, which meant that people were borrowing against value that didn't exist.
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: bgsnyder on April 27, 2018, 09:45:52 AM
Sometimes these things work out. eighteen months ago I was exasperated by my BIL and SIL buying a house that was utterly extravagant and monstrous when compared with their incomes. What was particularly disorienting was my MIL--who'd always criticized my household for spending too much and irresponsibly taking on debt--suddenly seemed to think her son was his generation's Ben Graham for finding a zero percent financing deal on a lawn mower.

But I just checked zillow today, and they've already got about $40,000 of extra equity. That will pay for a lot of lawn mowers.

Equity doesn't pay for anything unless they sell it though.

All it does is mean property taxes are higher.

Also Zillow is extremely generous with the estimates. My house was up $15K the first year and with a partially finished basement now they went from $145k - $195k
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: Petuniajo on April 27, 2018, 10:26:16 AM
This is my favorite thread too!  And of course it makes us bad people for laughing, but do we care?  I like to imagine someone in my family is on another board somewhere talking about my crazy financial decisions, and all of the other forum members think I'm a lunatic.

"Then she quit her job, and buys everything from yard sales and craigslist!  And when I asked what she planned to do if the economy goes belly up, she just shrugged her shoulders and said she guesses she'd have to find a way to earn money!  But when she was actually offered another job, did she take it?  No, she turned it down saying she didn't think she'd need the money.  And bear in mind this person is not a multi-millionaire.  Like AT ALL!  But somehow she's deluded herself into thinking she can live off of savings and real estate investments, because "frugality!"

I love this so much.
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: AMandM on April 27, 2018, 04:18:23 PM
Unless of course they refinance to pull some of that equity out. That move was common during the last big housing boom because interest rates were low enough to make people think they could get a better ROI elsewhere spend more money.

FTFY.
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: gerardc on April 27, 2018, 10:39:10 PM
The sad thing is, they're going to live better lives than their frugal, responsible counterparts. They're basically acting like they're FIREd already, relaxed, healthy and enjoying life. The only difference is they'll get handouts from their parents, they'll have to pay less for liability if they get sued (because they'll have no savings) and they'll jump straight to medicaid in their old age, instead of slaving away for the "pride" of building their own stash and legacy like most of us do. I wish socialists would understand that it's always what happens when handouts are given.
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: fredbear on April 28, 2018, 09:44:52 AM

Unless of course they refinance to pull some of that equity out. That move was common during the last big housing boom because interest rates were low enough to make people think they could get a better ROI elsewhere.
...
Ms Squeaker, you're being charitable again.  I reckon not one in a hundred of the people who ATMed their homes in the last RE bubble did it based on a rational calculation that they could get a better ROI elsewhere./*  Nah, they used it for down payments on water lice, road lice, and pervert wagons.  (Jet skis, ATVs, winnebagi.)  Livin' the dream, with the house an endless fountain of cash to dreckify the perpetual appreciation.  Livin' the dream, and learning how a margin cascade works.
__
/* After all, it was true.  They could have.  And if they had, they'd still have the house now; their credit rating would gleam with the brilliance of a thousand suns instead of looking like something the septic tank pumper brings up; they' have big chunks of index funds; and financial reporters would be interviewing them about their genius and their stick-to-itiveness. 
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: Kay-Ell on April 28, 2018, 03:05:44 PM

Unless of course they refinance to pull some of that equity out. That move was common during the last big housing boom because interest rates were low enough to make people think they could get a better ROI elsewhere.
...
Ms Squeaker, you're being charitable again.  I reckon not one in a hundred of the people who ATMed their homes in the last RE bubble did it based on a rational calculation that they could get a better ROI elsewhere./*  Nah, they used it for down payments on water lice, road lice, and pervert wagons.  (Jet skis, ATVs, winnebagi.)  Livin' the dream, with the house an endless fountain of cash to dreckify the perpetual appreciation.  Livin' the dream, and learning how a margin cascade works.
__
/* After all, it was true.  They could have.  And if they had, they'd still have the house now; their credit rating would gleam with the brilliance of a thousand suns instead of looking like something the septic tank pumper brings up; they' have big chunks of index funds; and financial reporters would be interviewing them about their genius and their stick-to-itiveness.

I refinanced my house one year after I purchased it to remove PMI and get a lower interest rate. A coworker of mine was also refinancing her house and we struck up anconversation about the paperwork. That’s when she said “don’t you just love refinancing?” I gave her a quizzical look and she continued “every year you just talk to you lender and they tell you how much money your house has made!” This was in 2015. I cringe to think what might happen in the future if every drop of equity is wrung out of their home every year.
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: TheGrimSqueaker on April 30, 2018, 10:08:33 AM

Unless of course they refinance to pull some of that equity out. That move was common during the last big housing boom because interest rates were low enough to make people think they could get a better ROI elsewhere.
...
Ms Squeaker, you're being charitable again.  I reckon not one in a hundred of the people who ATMed their homes in the last RE bubble did it based on a rational calculation that they could get a better ROI elsewhere./*  Nah, they used it for down payments on water lice, road lice, and pervert wagons.  (Jet skis, ATVs, winnebagi.)  Livin' the dream, with the house an endless fountain of cash to dreckify the perpetual appreciation.  Livin' the dream, and learning how a margin cascade works.
__
/* After all, it was true.  They could have.  And if they had, they'd still have the house now; their credit rating would gleam with the brilliance of a thousand suns instead of looking like something the septic tank pumper brings up; they' have big chunks of index funds; and financial reporters would be interviewing them about their genius and their stick-to-itiveness.

I'm trying *so* freaking hard to de-snarkify and be nice.

Should I just stop?
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: adamb on April 30, 2018, 11:10:18 AM
The sad thing is, they're going to live better lives than their frugal, responsible counterparts. They're basically acting like they're FIREd already, relaxed, healthy and enjoying life. The only difference is they'll get handouts from their parents, they'll have to pay less for liability if they get sued (because they'll have no savings) and they'll jump straight to medicaid in their old age, instead of slaving away for the "pride" of building their own stash and legacy like most of us do. I wish socialists would understand that it's always what happens when handouts are given.

so a couple directly benefiting from a capitalistic society of free handouts for the failsons of the elites while the rest work for scraps is an indictment of socialism?

I label this post 'Close But No Potato'.
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: ScreamingHeadGuy on April 30, 2018, 02:05:36 PM
This is my favorite thread too!  And of course it makes us bad people for laughing, but do we care?  I like to imagine someone in my family is on another board somewhere talking about my crazy financial decisions, and all of the other forum members think I'm a lunatic.

"Then she quit her job, and buys everything from yard sales and craigslist!  And when I asked what she planned to do if the economy goes belly up, she just shrugged her shoulders and said she guesses she'd have to find a way to earn money!  But when she was actually offered another job, did she take it?  No, she turned it down saying she didn't think she'd need the money.  And bear in mind this person is not a multi-millionaire.  Like AT ALL!  But somehow she's deluded herself into thinking she can live off of savings and real estate investments, because "frugality!"

:-D
That is a very good analogy.
Please tell me this place exists

I want to join that forum and lurk.  They would have a "Non-Spendres and Misers' Wall of Comedy" to bitch about folks like us.
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: Kay-Ell on April 30, 2018, 10:09:41 PM
This is my favorite thread too!  And of course it makes us bad people for laughing, but do we care?  I like to imagine someone in my family is on another board somewhere talking about my crazy financial decisions, and all of the other forum members think I'm a lunatic.

"Then she quit her job, and buys everything from yard sales and craigslist!  And when I asked what she planned to do if the economy goes belly up, she just shrugged her shoulders and said she guesses she'd have to find a way to earn money!  But when she was actually offered another job, did she take it?  No, she turned it down saying she didn't think she'd need the money.  And bear in mind this person is not a multi-millionaire.  Like AT ALL!  But somehow she's deluded herself into thinking she can live off of savings and real estate investments, because "frugality!"

:-D
That is a very good analogy.
Please tell me this place exists

I want to join that forum and lurk.  They would have a "Non-Spendres and Misers' Wall of Comedy" to bitch about folks like us.

The next best thing would be to create a thread where we all mock ourselves and try to imagine what our spendy-pants friends and relatives would say about us. :-D
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: Clookie on May 01, 2018, 05:37:40 AM
This is my favorite thread too!  And of course it makes us bad people for laughing, but do we care?  I like to imagine someone in my family is on another board somewhere talking about my crazy financial decisions, and all of the other forum members think I'm a lunatic.

"Then she quit her job, and buys everything from yard sales and craigslist!  And when I asked what she planned to do if the economy goes belly up, she just shrugged her shoulders and said she guesses she'd have to find a way to earn money!  But when she was actually offered another job, did she take it?  No, she turned it down saying she didn't think she'd need the money.  And bear in mind this person is not a multi-millionaire.  Like AT ALL!  But somehow she's deluded herself into thinking she can live off of savings and real estate investments, because "frugality!"

:-D
That is a very good analogy.
Please tell me this place exists

I want to join that forum and lurk.  They would have a "Non-Spendres and Misers' Wall of Comedy" to bitch about folks like us.

The next best thing would be to create a thread where we all mock ourselves and try to imagine what our spendy-pants friends and relatives would say about us. :-D

That would be awesome
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: Laura33 on May 01, 2018, 06:58:39 AM

Unless of course they refinance to pull some of that equity out. That move was common during the last big housing boom because interest rates were low enough to make people think they could get a better ROI elsewhere.
...
Ms Squeaker, you're being charitable again.  I reckon not one in a hundred of the people who ATMed their homes in the last RE bubble did it based on a rational calculation that they could get a better ROI elsewhere./*  Nah, they used it for down payments on water lice, road lice, and pervert wagons.  (Jet skis, ATVs, winnebagi.)  Livin' the dream, with the house an endless fountain of cash to dreckify the perpetual appreciation.  Livin' the dream, and learning how a margin cascade works.
__
/* After all, it was true.  They could have.  And if they had, they'd still have the house now; their credit rating would gleam with the brilliance of a thousand suns instead of looking like something the septic tank pumper brings up; they' have big chunks of index funds; and financial reporters would be interviewing them about their genius and their stick-to-itiveness.

I'm trying *so* freaking hard to de-snarkify and be nice.

Should I just stop?

Yes.  Your snark skills are too highly refined not to share with the rest of us plebes.
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: TheGrimSqueaker on May 01, 2018, 08:04:43 AM

Unless of course they refinance to pull some of that equity out. That move was common during the last big housing boom because interest rates were low enough to make people think they could get a better ROI elsewhere.
...
Ms Squeaker, you're being charitable again.  I reckon not one in a hundred of the people who ATMed their homes in the last RE bubble did it based on a rational calculation that they could get a better ROI elsewhere./*  Nah, they used it for down payments on water lice, road lice, and pervert wagons.  (Jet skis, ATVs, winnebagi.)  Livin' the dream, with the house an endless fountain of cash to dreckify the perpetual appreciation.  Livin' the dream, and learning how a margin cascade works.
__
/* After all, it was true.  They could have.  And if they had, they'd still have the house now; their credit rating would gleam with the brilliance of a thousand suns instead of looking like something the septic tank pumper brings up; they' have big chunks of index funds; and financial reporters would be interviewing them about their genius and their stick-to-itiveness.

I'm trying *so* freaking hard to de-snarkify and be nice.

Should I just stop?

Yes.  Your snark skills are too highly refined not to share with the rest of us plebes.

Whew! That's quite the relief. Now I no longer feel like I'm about to explode from sphincter paralysis.
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: Sibley on May 01, 2018, 10:06:13 AM

Unless of course they refinance to pull some of that equity out. That move was common during the last big housing boom because interest rates were low enough to make people think they could get a better ROI elsewhere.
...
Ms Squeaker, you're being charitable again.  I reckon not one in a hundred of the people who ATMed their homes in the last RE bubble did it based on a rational calculation that they could get a better ROI elsewhere./*  Nah, they used it for down payments on water lice, road lice, and pervert wagons.  (Jet skis, ATVs, winnebagi.)  Livin' the dream, with the house an endless fountain of cash to dreckify the perpetual appreciation.  Livin' the dream, and learning how a margin cascade works.
__
/* After all, it was true.  They could have.  And if they had, they'd still have the house now; their credit rating would gleam with the brilliance of a thousand suns instead of looking like something the septic tank pumper brings up; they' have big chunks of index funds; and financial reporters would be interviewing them about their genius and their stick-to-itiveness.

I'm trying *so* freaking hard to de-snarkify and be nice.

Should I just stop?

I LOVE your posts.
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: RWD on May 01, 2018, 10:10:51 AM
I'm trying *so* freaking hard to de-snarkify and be nice.

Should I just stop?

Yes.  Your snark skills are too highly refined not to share with the rest of us plebes.
I LOVE your posts.

Yes, I'd like to third this. Keep the snark coming, @TheGrimSqueaker.
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: MrMoogle on May 01, 2018, 10:16:22 AM
Some of yall have had pretty bad experiences with CPs.  I went to one for a while.  My first visit he told me I was causing my problem and if I chose to do X, Y, or Z, I wouldn't have to keep coming back, oh and here's how you do X.  He helped me get back to a good place and I did Y, so I stopped going back. 

My first visit took a while because he did X-rays and had to determine what was going on.  But after that, he had appointments every 10 minutes.  You'd come in, he'd check you out quickly, then set you up on a machine to warm up your muscles.  Then he'd go finish 1 or 2 others, then finish you after you're warm.  He was in production mode.  I never had to wait long to be seen and after that I was usually out within 10 minutes.

It was just him and a receptionist and they could do 6 per hour.  But, I could always get a same day appointment, so I doubt they were doing 6 every hour.  Not including first visits.

Do to other things going on I've stopped doing Y, so I've been doing Z, but only sporadically, so I may go back soon before I start Y back up.  A good CP was totally worth it for me.
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: Kay-Ell on May 01, 2018, 01:57:51 PM
Some of yall have had pretty bad experiences with CPs.  I went to one for a while.  My first visit he told me I was causing my problem and if I chose to do X, Y, or Z, I wouldn't have to keep coming back, oh and here's how you do X.  He helped me get back to a good place and I did Y, so I stopped going back. 

My first visit took a while because he did X-rays and had to determine what was going on.  But after that, he had appointments every 10 minutes.  You'd come in, he'd check you out quickly, then set you up on a machine to warm up your muscles.  Then he'd go finish 1 or 2 others, then finish you after you're warm.  He was in production mode.  I never had to wait long to be seen and after that I was usually out within 10 minutes.

It was just him and a receptionist and they could do 6 per hour.  But, I could always get a same day appointment, so I doubt they were doing 6 every hour.  Not including first visits.

Do to other things going on I've stopped doing Y, so I've been doing Z, but only sporadically, so I may go back soon before I start Y back up.  A good CP was totally worth it for me.

I've also had good experiences with CP's, including ones who ran their office like a production line.  Totally fixed my chornic migranes, to the point I'm totally fine and get adjusted a couple times a year if I feel like I need it.

But let's do the math here for a second (on behalf of the soon-to-be-millionairs).  To make a million dollars in the first year he would need 6 patients an hour, for 8 hours each day, 365 days per year, charging $60 per visit FROM DAY ONE.  He'd even end up with an extra 50k from that business model - which he could use to pay for rent, utilities, insurance, staff, or maybe he could afford to take thanksgiving and chirstmass off.  Even if the demand existed, which it does not, he couldn't possible adjust at that pace for a whole year (let alone a whole career).
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: dogboyslim on May 02, 2018, 11:32:50 AM
Your math doesn't include other revenue options beyond adjustments.  Its still REALLY unlikely, but there are more revenue options than what you described.  Consider the prepaid wellness program...pay up front, includes x adjustments as needed for the family, as well as a supplement regimen, a personal trainer with x #of visits with a few basic machines, some massage folks with n # massages, a nutritionist (who recommends the supplements).  Each of these folks you could hire as employees, or work with as referrals, but each could drive revenue.
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: grandep on May 02, 2018, 04:44:21 PM
I just wanted to chime in and say that I also have had a great experience with a chiropractor. I hurt my lower back (L5S1 disc) weight lifting in college and had constant back pain for over a year. I finally went to a chiropractor and he sorted me right out. He never tried to sell me on any wacko stuff though, and I would have ran the other direction if he had.

Also, props to @frugalfoothills for the riveting storytelling. I can't wait to see how this all unfolds.
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: calimom on May 02, 2018, 06:50:16 PM
Your math doesn't include other revenue options beyond adjustments.  Its still REALLY unlikely, but there are more revenue options than what you described.  Consider the prepaid wellness program...pay up front, includes x adjustments as needed for the family, as well as a supplement regimen, a personal trainer with x #of visits with a few basic machines, some massage folks with n # massages, a nutritionist (who recommends the supplements).  Each of these folks you could hire as employees, or work with as referrals, but each could drive revenue.

Exactly. I go to a chiropractor who has done wonders with my back which has been tweaked by schlepping too much heavy stuff around through my work. We have a barter; I met her in a business networking group when we both started our businesses. She has pre-paid plans, wellness plans with some progressive health conscious employers and does some car accident work. She sells Standard Process supplements, along with rollers and health related books and such. In the building she purchased, space is rented for a yoga practice, an acupuncturist and several massage practitioners. Unlike the OP's hapless family members, she worked and hustled and planned for her success, and has a hardworking partner. They didn't just loll about dreaming of fantasy riches.

And agreed: the OP is a wonderful storyteller. The updates are wickedly fun.
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: DutchGirl on May 11, 2018, 09:48:56 PM
Back to the topic, please...
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: kina on May 12, 2018, 01:44:07 PM
Tomorrow is my day!
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: penguintroopers on May 13, 2018, 07:27:26 AM
When will we know if BIL passed?
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: TexasStash on May 13, 2018, 08:27:02 AM
The sad thing is, they're going to live better lives than their frugal, responsible counterparts. They're basically acting like they're FIREd already, relaxed, healthy and enjoying life. The only difference is they'll get handouts from their parents, they'll have to pay less for liability if they get sued (because they'll have no savings) and they'll jump straight to medicaid in their old age, instead of slaving away for the "pride" of building their own stash and legacy like most of us do. I wish socialists would understand that it's always what happens when handouts are given.

so a couple directly benefiting from a capitalistic society of free handouts for the failsons of the elites while the rest work for scraps is an indictment of socialism?

I label this post 'Close But No Potato'.

I'm not trying to assign blame here on either system, but you have a very different definition of capitalism than I do.
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: talltexan on May 14, 2018, 08:42:41 AM
Isn't the correct word failscions?
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: AlanStache on May 14, 2018, 10:07:03 AM
PTF.  Am reading the past posts now, thanks much for sharing. 
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: Hirondelle on May 14, 2018, 01:41:19 PM
I'm so sad when everytime I see a new post in this topic it isn't an update on the millionaires :(
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: mousebandit on May 14, 2018, 01:47:59 PM
PTF.  Loving this! 
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: Kierun on May 14, 2018, 02:18:41 PM
I'm so sad when everytime I see a new post in this topic it isn't an update on the millionaires :(
I know right!
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: elementz_m on May 14, 2018, 02:59:54 PM
I'm so sad when everytime I see a new post in this topic it isn't an update on the millionaires :(

Just posting to disappoint you further, sorry. I feel the exact same way, and have been checking the latest post's author recently to avoid disappointment.
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: SeaWA on May 17, 2018, 08:56:09 AM
Posting to be notified of new LOLs.

Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: ducky19 on May 17, 2018, 01:43:41 PM
GAAAAH!!! Ya'll are killing me!!!
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: Davnasty on May 17, 2018, 02:40:15 PM
GAAAAH!!! Ya'll are killing me!!!

Oh the irony!

Also, I'm so sorry.
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: YttriumNitrate on May 17, 2018, 04:24:15 PM
Quote
Mar 15, 2018 lhamo
Apr 1, 2018 babybug
Apr 15, 2018 expnss
May 1, 2018 neverrun
May 13, 2018 kina
June 4, 2018 Beard N Bones (Dependence Day)
July 1, 2018 Finances_With_Purpose, partygypsy
July 4, 2018 Miss Piggy
July 6, 2018 nick663
July 15, 2018 Sibley, Roe
July 28,2018 penguintroopers
Aug 1, 2018 Apple_Tango, ShoulderThingThatGoesUp
Aug 15, 2018 Linda_Norway
Sept 29, 2018 Nederstash
Nov 15, 2018 Zamboni
Jan 15, 2019 Yt(NO3)3

Well, it looks like lhamo, babybug, expnss, neverrun, and kina (if we are using Price is Right rules) will not be getting those coveted 10 Internet Points, but you do get a participation trophy!
(http://www.mariadewaik.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/trophy-Copy.jpg)
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: MrMoogle on May 18, 2018, 07:41:46 AM
Kina isn't over, Beard N Bones is if it were to happen today.  At least the way I think about it.
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: patchyfacialhair on May 18, 2018, 08:28:14 AM
Updated list (add your name if you want)

Mar 15, 2018 lhamo
Apr 1, 2018 babybug
Apr 11, 2018 Primm
Apr 15, 2018 expnss
May 1, 2018 neverrun
May 13, 2018 kina

June 4, 2018 Beard N Bones (Dependence Day)
July 1, 2018 Finances_With_Purpose, partygypsy
July 4, 2018 Miss Piggy
July 6, 2018 nick663
July 15, 2018 Sibley, Roe
July 28,2018 penguintroopers
Aug 1, 2018 Apple_Tango, ShoulderThingThatGoesUp
Aug 15, 2018 Linda_Norway
Sept 1, 2018 Patchyfacialhair
Sept 29, 2018 Nederstash
Nov 15, 2018 Zamboni
Jan 15, 2019 Yt(NO3)3
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: tomsang on May 18, 2018, 09:32:07 AM
Updated list (add your name if you want)

Mar 15, 2018 lhamo
Apr 1, 2018 babybug
Apr 11, 2018 Primm
Apr 15, 2018 expnss
May 1, 2018 neverrun
May 13, 2018 kina

June 4, 2018 Beard N Bones (Dependence Day)
July 1, 2018 Finances_With_Purpose, partygypsy
July 4, 2018 Miss Piggy
July 6, 2018 nick663
July 7, 2018 tomsang
July 15, 2018 Sibley, Roe
July 28,2018 penguintroopers
Aug 1, 2018 Apple_Tango, ShoulderThingThatGoesUp
Aug 15, 2018 Linda_Norway
Sept 1, 2018 Patchyfacialhair
Sept 29, 2018 Nederstash
Nov 15, 2018 Zamboni
Jan 15, 2019 Yt(NO3)3
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: greengardens on May 18, 2018, 01:21:25 PM
PTF
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: iris lily on May 18, 2018, 06:27:03 PM
The thing is, you people seem to think that Mr. Future Chiro Millionaire’s parents will actually, someday, stop the money train.
I am not so sure.

I have known elderly parents who finance their progeny’s lives, as we all have,  but  ones that talk about “my son the Doctor” with a shine of wonder in their eyes. Having a”doctor” in their family is a huge dream. It is a Big Giant Assed Deal. They are not about to face rwality that their “doctor” son is not really that let alone not financially stable.
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: Sibley on May 19, 2018, 08:56:16 AM
The thing is, you people seem to think that Mr. Future Chiro Millionaire’s parents will actually, someday, stop the money train.
I am not so sure.

I have known elderly parents who finance their progeny’s lives, as we all have,  but  ones that talk about “my son the Doctor” with a shine of wonder in their eyes. Having a”doctor” in their family is a huge dream. It is a Big Giant Assed Deal. They are not about to face rwality that their “doctor” son is not really that let alone not financially stable.

You are correct. However, in that case, the real crash will come when the parents either exhaust their assets or pass away. Even if there's significant inheritance, given that lifestyle will most likely expand to fit available assets once there isn't any more money coming is when the drama (meltdown) would really start.
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: Pylortes on May 19, 2018, 07:58:30 PM
Updated list (add your name if you want)

Mar 15, 2018 lhamo
Apr 1, 2018 babybug
Apr 11, 2018 Primm
Apr 15, 2018 expnss
May 1, 2018 neverrun
May 13, 2018 kina

June 4, 2018 Beard N Bones (Dependence Day)
July 1, 2018 Finances_With_Purpose, partygypsy
July 4, 2018 Miss Piggy
July 6, 2018 nick663
July 7, 2018 tomsang
July 15, 2018 Sibley, Roe
July 28,2018 penguintroopers
Aug 1, 2018 Apple_Tango, ShoulderThingThatGoesUp
Aug 15, 2018 Linda_Norway
Sept 1, 2018 Patchyfacialhair
Sept 2, 2018 Pylortes
Sept 29, 2018 Nederstash
Nov 15, 2018 Zamboni
Jan 15, 2019 Yt(NO3)3

The list had been missing me for some reason,  I’ve had Labor Day weekend down for awhile.  Good luck to all!
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: SwordGuy on May 19, 2018, 08:26:26 PM

Unless of course they refinance to pull some of that equity out. That move was common during the last big housing boom because interest rates were low enough to make people think they could get a better ROI elsewhere.
...
Ms Squeaker, you're being charitable again.  I reckon not one in a hundred of the people who ATMed their homes in the last RE bubble did it based on a rational calculation that they could get a better ROI elsewhere./*  Nah, they used it for down payments on water lice, road lice, and pervert wagons.  (Jet skis, ATVs, winnebagi.)  Livin' the dream, with the house an endless fountain of cash to dreckify the perpetual appreciation.  Livin' the dream, and learning how a margin cascade works.
__
/* After all, it was true.  They could have.  And if they had, they'd still have the house now; their credit rating would gleam with the brilliance of a thousand suns instead of looking like something the septic tank pumper brings up; they' have big chunks of index funds; and financial reporters would be interviewing them about their genius and their stick-to-itiveness.

I'm trying *so* freaking hard to de-snarkify and be nice.

Should I just stop?

If I were single, I would have crossed the country to date you, sight unseen, just because of your awesome snarkiness. 

Please don't ever change that.   It would be a waste of an Olympic gold medal winner talent.
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: iluvzbeach on June 06, 2018, 08:20:31 AM
PTF

Sorry folks, not an update from OP.

@frugalfoothills Anything new to report in the land of the Future Millionaires?
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: FrugalFisherman10 on June 06, 2018, 03:20:30 PM
I love this thread. It gives me life.
I lol'd at this

At my desk at work.
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: Zamboni on June 07, 2018, 09:49:53 PM
Mar 15, 2018 lhamo
Apr 1, 2018 babybug
Apr 11, 2018 Primm
Apr 15, 2018 expnss
May 1, 2018 neverrun
May 13, 2018 kina
May 28, 2018 MissNancyPryor
June 4, 2018 Beard N Bones (Dependence Day)

July 1, 2018 Finances_With_Purpose, partygypsy
July 4, 2018 Miss Piggy
July 6, 2018 nick663
July 7, 2018 (a Saturday) tomsang
July 15, 2018 Sibley, Roe
July 28,2018 penguintroopers
Aug 1, 2018 Apple_Tango, ShoulderThingThatGoesUp
Aug 15, 2018 Linda_Norway, MSquared
Sept 1, 2018 Basenji, patchyfacialhair
Sept 2, 2018 Pylortes
Sept 3, 2018 robartsd
Sept 15, 2018 avalanchecity
Sept 29, 2018 Nederstash
Nov 15, 2018 Zamboni
Nov 22, 2018 Boll weevil
Jan 15, 2019 Yt(NO3)3

This is indeed the thread that just keeps on giving.
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: frugalecon on June 08, 2018, 06:23:34 PM
PTF

Sorry folks, not an update from OP.

@frugalfoothills Anything new to report in the land of the Future Millionaires?

I suppose it is possible this post was an elaborate troll. Is anyone as ridiculous as the object of the original post?
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: SwordGuy on June 08, 2018, 07:34:57 PM
PTF

Sorry folks, not an update from OP.

@frugalfoothills Anything new to report in the land of the Future Millionaires?

I suppose it is possible this post was an elaborate troll. Is anyone as ridiculous as the object of the original post?

Oh, yes.  Absolutely.

Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: Kay-Ell on June 11, 2018, 01:18:19 PM
I'm so sad when everytime I see a new post in this topic it isn't an update on the millionaires :(
I know right!

My soul lights up every time I see new activity in this thread, only to be disappointed when it's not another juicy update.  Why has the internet failed me yet again?
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: jinga nation on June 11, 2018, 03:48:26 PM
Nah, methinks she's been found out by the faffing family members.
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: AlanStache on June 11, 2018, 07:36:50 PM
Nah, methinks she's been found out by the faffing family members.

Maybe the OP could restart the blog somewhere more private and invite us via PM?  :-)  I hope!
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: TheGrimSqueaker on June 11, 2018, 11:27:39 PM
The licensing re-test should be occurring any day now, if it hasn't already. But the millionaire-to-be may have been off gallivanting in TN or messing with a riding lawn mower instead of studying. Is there a way to bet that he failed the retest and that there's not going to be any grand opening?
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: Clookie on June 12, 2018, 06:07:22 AM
The licensing re-test should be occurring any day now, if it hasn't already. But the millionaire-to-be may have been off gallivanting in TN or messing with a riding lawn mower instead of studying. Is there a way to bet that he failed the retest and that there's not going to be any grand opening?

Maybe everybody here is wrong and the millionaire-to-be is already a millionaire. That would explain a lot.
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: Davnasty on June 12, 2018, 06:24:34 AM
The licensing re-test should be occurring any day now, if it hasn't already. But the millionaire-to-be may have been off gallivanting in TN or messing with a riding lawn mower instead of studying. Is there a way to bet that he failed the retest and that there's not going to be any grand opening?

Maybe everybody here is wrong and the millionaire-to-be is already a millionaire. That would explain a lot.

Maybe they won the lottery.
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: talltexan on June 12, 2018, 08:47:29 AM
Pretty cagey to extract a six-figure loan from relatives to start a business, then parlay that loan into an eight figure lottery payout.
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: marty998 on June 27, 2018, 04:01:58 AM
Not normally one to enjoy disaster porn but even I'm hanging out for an update on this one.

@frugalfoothills - what's going on?
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: frugalfoothills on July 09, 2018, 12:23:15 PM
Alright all, I'm here with an update on the Millionaires! Sorry I've been MIA for a few months, been busy with some (non-Mustachian) vacations and some VERY Mustachian hard work of my own.

I got a text on Friday morning... BIL passed his boards! My dad's reply had me rolling... "Congrats! Never had any doubt he would!" LOL. Literally had ALL the doubts.

This is GREAT news because it means they can actually open this month. Ribbon-cutting is set for the end of July (my birthday, actually... HBD to me) and then they'll be in business.

I've been proud of my sister... she's been responsible for all of the decorating and stuff in the office space. It's finally complete and I know she tried to spend as little money as possible (i.e., spending no more than $20/chair on waiting room chairs, using inexpensive cedar shakes to create a decorative wall, etc.) We were all pleased to discover that they DO in fact possess SOME modicum of common sense when it comes to spending money... refreshing, but doesn't really change the reality of their situation, which is that they have still spent a shit ton of money (and have yet to earn a dollar) regardless of how cheap their chairs were.

They have been working hard by going around and giving "health talks" at corporate offices, festivals, etc. and trying to get folks signed up for care plans by telling them they'll be crippled or have cancer if they decline. You, too, can have (guaranteed?) good health for the small cost of $1,500 per year. Ironically, I threw my back out last month unloading a Craigslist desk that I bought and flipped for some extra cash, and got berated by my sis for not being on a care plan. "$1,500 per year is very inexpensive. It's an investment in your future, by spending that money you are going to have less pain, better digestion, better overall health and immunity." I pointed out that I can spend that $1,500 investing in my future by putting it in the market where there is actual data to back up the return on my investment vs. this text message from her guaranteeing my healthy future, just because she says so. We decided to agree to disagree, there.

In all seriousness, I worry that some here on this thread feel that I'm anti-chiropractor based on my posts. That's not the case at all! I'm a long-time sufferer of back pain (thanks to some old soccer injuries) and see a chiropractor semi-regularly (as needed when my back issues flare up.) What I'm NOT a fan of is this program that my BIL did, which basically taught him how to swindle folks into spending $1,500 on a care plan which they disingenuously (in my opinion) preach will cure every physical ailment on earth. I have benefitted directly from chiropractic care, but I don't appreciate the tactics being used here.

Oh, as for the MLM... thankfully my sister seems to be too busy helping my BIL with the health talks to have gotten herself any deeper into that. She did help "host" a "workshop" on Facebook for a week where they talked about how buying this makeup would be every woman's saving grace, but that was back in May and I've seen nothing else after that THANK GOD. That's the last thing they needed.

To date: zero spin classes have been taught.

I'll try to update more frequently now that things are picking up and the business is actually opening this month! I am concerned that they'll have a great first few weeks (they have set up 200 or so appointments according to my mom) but that the traffic will die off after that. Who am I kidding... I'm sure business will be booming and I'll be back here eating my words come next year when they're not only millionaires, but BILLIONAIRES!
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: patchyfacialhair on July 09, 2018, 12:29:39 PM
Mar 15, 2018 lhamo
Apr 1, 2018 babybug
Apr 11, 2018 Primm
Apr 15, 2018 expnss
May 1, 2018 neverrun
May 13, 2018 kina
May 28, 2018 MissNancyPryor
June 4, 2018 Beard N Bones (Dependence Day)
July 1, 2018 Finances_With_Purpose, partygypsy
July 4, 2018 Miss Piggy
July 6, 2018 nick663
July 7, 2018 (a Saturday) tomsang

July 15, 2018 Sibley, Roe
July 28,2018 penguintroopers
Aug 1, 2018 Apple_Tango, ShoulderThingThatGoesUp
Aug 15, 2018 Linda_Norway, MSquared
Sept 1, 2018 Basenji, patchyfacialhair
Sept 2, 2018 Pylortes
Sept 3, 2018 robartsd
Sept 15, 2018 avalanchecity
Sept 29, 2018 Nederstash
Nov 15, 2018 Zamboni
Nov 22, 2018 Boll weevil
Jan 15, 2019 Yt(NO3)3

Thanks, OP! Keep the updates coming!
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: ysette9 on July 09, 2018, 12:51:45 PM
Mar 15, 2018 lhamo
Apr 1, 2018 babybug
Apr 11, 2018 Primm
Apr 15, 2018 expnss
May 1, 2018 neverrun
May 13, 2018 kina
May 28, 2018 MissNancyPryor
June 4, 2018 Beard N Bones (Dependence Day)
July 1, 2018 Finances_With_Purpose, partygypsy
July 4, 2018 Miss Piggy
July 6, 2018 nick663
July 7, 2018 (a Saturday) tomsang

July 15, 2018 Sibley, Roe
July 28,2018 penguintroopers
Aug 1, 2018 Apple_Tango, ShoulderThingThatGoesUp
Aug 15, 2018 Linda_Norway, MSquared
Sept 1, 2018 Basenji, patchyfacialhair
Sept 2, 2018 Pylortes
Sept 3, 2018 robartsd
Sept 15, 2018 avalanchecity
Sept 29, 2018 Nederstash
Nov 15, 2018 Zamboni
Nov 22, 2018 Boll weevil
Jan 15, 2019 Yt(NO3)3

Thanks, OP! Keep the updates coming!
Sorry in advance if this is a silly question, but what is up with this running log?
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: patchyfacialhair on July 09, 2018, 12:56:26 PM
People are running bets on when the Soon-To-Be-Millionaire-Family-Members are going to run out of money, therefore asking family/parents for money.

We're keeping the running list for a sense of pride and accomplishment of something that will never impact our lives, but makes us happy as posters on the Antimustachian Wall of Shame and Comedy.
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: ysette9 on July 09, 2018, 01:03:49 PM
People are running bets on when the Soon-To-Be-Millionaire-Family-Members are going to run out of money, therefore asking family/parents for money.

We're keeping the running list for a sense of pride and accomplishment of something that will never impact our lives, but makes us happy as posters on the Antimustachian Wall of Shame and Comedy.
Aaahhh, that makes sense now. Thanks! I must have missed that earlier in the thread.
Let’s see, I’ll put my guess out at March 2019. What does the winner get, aside from bragging rights? :)
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: Linea_Norway on July 09, 2018, 01:06:23 PM
Things are looking prosperous in the last update. So I think my guess for 15th of august was too pessimistic. They might just survive that date and ask for money later.

The fact that sister is now being sort of frugal might also mean that they have spent most of the loan and can't afford more...
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: frugalfoothills on July 09, 2018, 01:31:08 PM
Things are looking prosperous in the last update. So I think my guess for 15th of august was too pessimistic. They might just survive that date and ask for money later.

The fact that sister is now being sort of frugal might also mean that they have spent most of the loan and can't afford more...

I had this thought, too. Not sure how much they've actually spent but I have to think reality will start to set in at SOME point. Maybe we're there?
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: AlanStache on July 09, 2018, 01:32:34 PM
"The fact that sister is now being sort of frugal might mean that they have spent most of the loan and can't afford more..."

yes and no, could be the realization that 50 chairs x 150$ is a lot of money especially right after paying the contractors, electrician, vendors, utility deposits, rent... Seeing a lot of money go out the door within a small period of time can be hard even if there is a good bit of the loan left.  I have seen new entrepreneurs get overly cheap when setting up the place of business.  If sister changes her personal spending habits that might be a better indicator of what remains of the loan.
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: Raymond Reddington on July 09, 2018, 02:24:35 PM
Put me down for October 29, 2018.

I hope to win an epic prize if I'm right, such as a photo of the office!
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: partgypsy on July 09, 2018, 03:19:21 PM
Out of the running! But i'm glad for them the good news he passed, and they are actually going to open the office. Feel the whole chiropractor health plan = toting that various ailments are cured by body adjustment is kind of sketchy, but whatever.
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: tomsang on July 09, 2018, 03:21:21 PM
I got a text on Friday morning... BIL passed his boards! My dad's reply had me rolling... "Congrats! Never had any doubt he would!"

Are were sure that the next text to Father-In-Law wasn't, "I might need xxx dollars to get this money machine fully up and operating"?
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: Finances_With_Purpose on July 09, 2018, 09:03:58 PM
I got a text on Friday morning... BIL passed his boards! My dad's reply had me rolling... "Congrats! Never had any doubt he would!"

Are were sure that the next text to Father-In-Law wasn't, "I might need xxx dollars to get this money machine fully up and operating"?

On that point: I would not be so sure whoever is crossing off names (though I do think I guessed way too early) because it's likely we'll only find out about it after the fact, and maybe long after the fact. 
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: Dicey on July 10, 2018, 04:41:24 AM
Well that was a nice, juicy update. Thanks, @frugalfoothills!
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: robartsd on July 13, 2018, 03:10:27 PM
"$1,500 per year is very inexpensive."
Inexpensive compared to what? I'm a monthly cash patient at my chiropractor and spend quite a bit less than $1500/yr.

200 appointments - if those are all separate individuals, and the can convince half of them that the $1500/yr plan is worthwhile they'll have a $150,000 revenue stream. They might make it without more cash inflow from the bank of dad.
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: Cassie on July 13, 2018, 11:15:22 PM
I have used a good chiropractor for years. I hate what they are doing because they give the profession a bad reputation.
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: eljefe-speaks on July 16, 2018, 10:48:14 AM
People are running bets on when the Soon-To-Be-Millionaire-Family-Members are going to run out of money, therefore asking family/parents for money.

We're keeping the running list for a sense of pride and accomplishment of something that will never impact our lives, but makes us happy as posters on the Antimustachian Wall of Shame and Comedy.
Aaahhh, that makes sense now. Thanks! I must have missed that earlier in the thread.
Let’s see, I’ll put my guess out at March 2019. What does the winner get, aside from bragging rights? :)

If I recall correctly, and being too lazy to search this out in the thread, I think the winner gets 1 Internet Point.
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: talltexan on July 16, 2018, 11:46:50 AM
How about we give the winner all the internet points?
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: elementz_m on July 16, 2018, 03:47:08 PM
How about we give the winner all the internet points?

I think that would devalue the Internet points, and I'm so heavily invested in them it would ruin my FIRE plans.

Really should have diversified with some of those Real Life points...
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: barbaz on July 18, 2018, 12:47:29 AM
How about we give the
I think that would devalue the Internet points, and I'm so heavily invested in them it would ruin my FIRE plans.

Really should have diversified with some of those Real Life points...
I know what you mean. I have a passive income of ~100 reputation per month on stackoverflow, but is that really enough to retire on?
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: ysette9 on July 18, 2018, 07:05:23 AM
How about we give the winner all the internet points?
Is that like winning the internet?
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: robartsd on July 18, 2018, 01:47:26 PM
I know what you mean. I have a passive income of ~100 reputation per month on stackoverflow, but is that really enough to retire on?
That's about 10x my passive income on stackoverflow.
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: frugalfoothills on July 19, 2018, 08:57:18 AM
Today is the ribbon cutting for the Millionaires! There are 2 ceremonies today, and then a "friends & family" ceremony on Saturday that I'll be attending. Throwing a 30th birthday party for a close friend Friday night at my house, so I'm sure I'll be bright eyed and bushy tailed for the big reveal.

I guess this means that the Millionaires are officially up & running as of today! I'll keep updates coming as business ramps up (or down?)
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: ysette9 on July 19, 2018, 01:06:55 PM
Maybe for the same reason restaurants have “grand opening!” signs up in front for the first year? It generates buzz and hopefully buzz generates $$.
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: frugalfoothills on July 20, 2018, 12:24:35 PM
Today is the ribbon cutting for the Millionaires! There are 2 ceremonies today, and then a "friends & family" ceremony on Saturday that I'll be attending. Throwing a 30th birthday party for a close friend Friday night at my house, so I'm sure I'll be bright eyed and bushy tailed for the big reveal.

I guess this means that the Millionaires are officially up & running as of today! I'll keep updates coming as business ramps up (or down?)

Why two ceremonies - actually three?

I found this weird, too... they had one yesterday morning for the Chamber of Commerce for the next town over, and a business networking group they have been part of. Then yesterday afternoon for THEIR Chamber of Commerce, plus a Young Professionals group. Then Saturday for "friends & family."

Not sure why you wouldn't just do one big ribbon cutting and knock it all out at once...? I don't know, I've never opened a business.
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: patchyfacialhair on July 20, 2018, 12:44:58 PM
I think it's a good idea. Target the sales pitches to smaller groups, adjusting the pitch slightly based on the audience, hopefully yielding a better result.

As opposed to a big old hootenanny where people stay for 2 minutes and leave because there's too many people.
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: iris lily on July 21, 2018, 12:48:24 PM
I think it's a good idea. Target the sales pitches to smaller groups, adjusting the pitch slightly based on the audience, hopefully yielding a better result.

As opposed to a big old hootenanny where people stay for 2 minutes and leave because there's too many people.

Also, timing i i portant. Multiple, eremonies can be targeted to whenever the targte group can attend.

Not sure I wojld worry about too many people at this event. :)
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: frugalfoothills on August 09, 2018, 03:13:46 PM
Business has been booming for the millionaires since the ribbon cutting. They are about to finish up their third full week with open doors and from the sounds of it, business has been good. They signed up a ton of people for consultation-type things pre-opening, so they've been working through all those and attempting to swindle sign them up for "care packages." I'll be interested to hear what the conversion rate is so far.

In some non-Mustachian news, the Millionaires got a new car! A 2014 Tahoe, to be exact. Bought and paid for by Financier in Chief, my BIL's father. What has become abundantly clear throughout this ordeal is that the Millionaire's business venture WILL succeed, deserved or not, because FIL will bail them out regardless. They are essentially the Wells Fargo of small-town chiropractic care... Too Privileged To Fail.

If I sound jealous, it's because I am!
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: K-ice on August 09, 2018, 03:22:48 PM
Good for them!

Although we were all kind of waiting to get our dose of "Schadenfreude".

(a German word for "pleasure derived from the misfortunes of others.")

Having successful family members is better than needy ones.
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: patchyfacialhair on August 09, 2018, 03:28:18 PM
So is the contest over since BILs father bought the massive unnecessary SUV? Or are we waiting for an indication that they've actually asked him for money?

If the former...

Aug 1, 2018 Apple_Tango, ShoulderThingThatGoesUp
August 9th (TAHOE PURCHASE DATE)
Aug 15, 2018 Linda_Norway

@Apple_Tango and @ShoulderThingThatGoesUp tie for the win...
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: YttriumNitrate on August 09, 2018, 08:20:06 PM
So is the contest over since BILs father bought the massive unnecessary SUV? Or are we waiting for an indication that they've actually asked him for money?
It certainly does seem that the BIL asked for a giant SUV (because chiropractic stuff and all), so...

(https://i.imgflip.com/2flz86.jpg)

EDIT: After official video review, the ruling on the field is overturned....repeat third down.
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: ysette9 on August 09, 2018, 09:08:50 PM
Congrats to the winners
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: partgypsy on August 09, 2018, 09:17:32 PM
Wouldn't it be Linda Norway who won? Unless u knew the date when the ask was?
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: Davnasty on August 10, 2018, 06:24:34 AM
Good for them!

Although we were all kind of waiting to get our dose of "Schadenfreude".

(a German word for "pleasure derived from the misfortunes of others.")

Having successful family members is better than needy ones.

That was my thought for a brief moment until I remembered their business model is taking advantage of ignorant people. Even if they are true believers in their method, people aren't getting the panacea they've been told they're getting.
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: ShoulderThingThatGoesUp on August 10, 2018, 08:59:49 AM
Internet Points! Woohoo!
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: FIRE@50 on August 10, 2018, 09:05:15 AM
Internet Points! Woohoo!
Have you decided which index fund to invest all of those points in?
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: talltexan on August 10, 2018, 09:10:11 AM
A couple of questions:

Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: ShoulderThingThatGoesUp on August 10, 2018, 09:26:52 AM
Internet Points! Woohoo!
Have you decided which index fund to invest all of those points in?

SCHE; the Internet still has a lot of productivity growth to add in emerging markets.
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: patchyfacialhair on August 10, 2018, 09:28:02 AM
Investing in memes would be a better decision. High risk high reward.
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: frugalfoothills on August 10, 2018, 02:06:04 PM
Not to rain on anyone's internet point parade, but BIL didn't actually *ask* FIL for the Tahoe. BIL (and my sis) have both been driving the same cars they've had since high school... so in that regard, they've been exceedingly Mustachian. FIL has been pestering BIL to let him buy him a new car, since apparently he tried to buy BIL a new car when he graduated from undergrad, and BIL refused (looooved his beater.) Seems like he only just now caved to accepting a gift that's been a long time coming. Not sure how this affects the contest... seems like it's back open to me!

A couple of questions:

  • Foot Traffic is high for this business now. Is there evidence of growth, or could this be a one-time surge?
  • They're still pretty leveraged to FIL. Can they survive a downturn? How does the area seem to be doing economically?
  • My MIL bought my BIL a new car seven years ago. She claimed it was the equivalent of the money she spent on my wife's and my wedding. She has been pretty generous with our HH over the years, so I probably don't want to start complaining. Do BIL and SIL have kids? If you don't have kids, the Tahoe is...to what purpose exactly?

1. No clue, I have to think at least some of it is a one-time surge. They offered introductory appointments ("assessments") at a super discounted price in the hopes of getting people in the door, and I think that was very successful. Interested to hear what the conversion rates are.
2. They can survive downturn because FIL will bail them out. Area is good economically & growing, though their exactly location IN that area baffles me a bit...
3. No kids yet but they DEFINITELY plan on having them. Like, lots of them. My sister loves kids... that's what the Currently Wasted Masters Degree was for, actually. I expect they will be pregnant sooner rather than later, honestly. I'm fine with that... I don't really want kids of my own, so I'm VERY much looking forward to being an aunt!

I'm going to call my sis this weekend and hopefully get an update on things.
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: patchyfacialhair on August 10, 2018, 02:22:31 PM
The league commissioner has spoken. The contest is back open!
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: ShoulderThingThatGoesUp on August 10, 2018, 08:28:47 PM
My internet points broker is going to be pi-issed.
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: Miss Piggy on August 11, 2018, 10:51:12 AM
My internet points broker is going to be pi-issed.

I don't even know how you recover from something like this.
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: iris lily on August 12, 2018, 11:26:08 AM
My internet points broker is going to be pi-issed.

I don't even know how you recover from something like this.
This, and this thread update, is a scream!
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: Linea_Norway on August 13, 2018, 05:20:06 AM
The league commissioner has spoken. The contest is back open!

Darn it!
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: jinga nation on August 14, 2018, 10:41:56 AM
The Tahoe is an implicit way for FIL to say "get jiggy and fill this up with your cute offspring". He doesn't want grandkids in a beater.
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: Just Joe on August 14, 2018, 05:47:22 PM
Wants to improve their automotive appearances so the business succeeds and he gets his loan back?
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: AlanStache on August 14, 2018, 07:36:11 PM
Congrats... I guess! 

I have never understood the need for small business people to have flashy cars; like why would I as a customer want to see what I am paying for?  But society at large tells me I look at things wrongly; meh. 
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: Apple_Tango on August 14, 2018, 10:05:33 PM
Talk about a rollercoaster! I check the thread to find out I won!!! And then in the blink of an eye my first place win was stripped away. To all those who remain, may the odds be in your favor 😂😂
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: talltexan on August 15, 2018, 07:26:07 AM
Congrats... I guess! 

I have never understood the need for small business people to have flashy cars; like why would I as a customer want to see what I am paying for?  But society at large tells me I look at things wrongly; meh.

I spent about $2,400 to receive sales coaching during my time in Cincinnati. My coach--who maintained that he'd built several businesses in insurance and boat dealing--drove an old honda accord. It never occurred to me to inquire whether this was a business thing (did he do it to minimize the costs of work-related driving?) or to try to figure out whether he wasn't as wealthy as he maintained he was. I imagine many people who try to sell you ideas that will bring you wealth wish to look wealthy themselves. This one did the opposite of that.

But a lot of people on this forum drive old, beat-up cars despite great wealth.
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: robartsd on August 15, 2018, 09:36:41 AM
I have never understood the need for small business people to have flashy cars; like why would I as a customer want to see what I am paying for?  But society at large tells me I look at things wrongly; meh.
I think that the appearance of wealth subconsciously validates someone's decision to purchase - if they have that much wealth, it must be because so many other people found that they provide great value. Only after stepping back and thinking rationally about the situation do you realize that the appearance of wealth provides you no information about the value being provided.
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: Linea_Norway on August 16, 2018, 12:58:16 AM
I have never understood the need for small business people to have flashy cars; like why would I as a customer want to see what I am paying for?  But society at large tells me I look at things wrongly; meh.
I think that the appearance of wealth subconsciously validates someone's decision to purchase - if they have that much wealth, it must be because so many other people found that they provide great value. Only after stepping back and thinking rationally about the situation do you realize that the appearance of wealth provides you no information about the value being provided.

Maybe it is for the same reasons that people are sceptic to specialists with a cheap hourly rate.
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: marty998 on August 16, 2018, 07:30:26 AM
I have never understood the need for small business people to have flashy cars; like why would I as a customer want to see what I am paying for?  But society at large tells me I look at things wrongly; meh.
I think that the appearance of wealth subconsciously validates someone's decision to purchase - if they have that much wealth, it must be because so many other people found that they provide great value. Only after stepping back and thinking rationally about the situation do you realize that the appearance of wealth provides you no information about the value being provided.

Maybe it is for the same reasons that people are sceptic to specialists with a cheap hourly rate.

It's for the tax write off.

These same business people don't understand that they don't get it all back on tax, only their marginal rate.
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: talltexan on August 16, 2018, 08:26:41 AM
What if BIL does something really sophisticated, like convert the debt he owes to Father-in-law into FIL owning a share of the business? Who wins then?
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: Tuskalusa on August 16, 2018, 08:32:10 AM
I have absolutely no idea what kind of car my chiropractor drives...
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: YttriumNitrate on August 16, 2018, 11:08:42 AM
Here's an image of a chriopractor's car I used to go by every day (hopefully Google will not change the link). If the BIL A) wraps the car in the company name, B) parks it by a busy road (on stilts), and C) adds branded kayaks on top, then I could see it as a legitimate business expense.

https://www.google.com/maps/@40.4531184,-86.9205372,3a,41y,314.48h,85.18t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sJH4mLlMhMTFMO9QEloL_-A!2e0!5s20070901T000000!7i13312!8i6656 (https://www.google.com/maps/@40.4531184,-86.9205372,3a,41y,314.48h,85.18t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sJH4mLlMhMTFMO9QEloL_-A!2e0!5s20070901T000000!7i13312!8i6656)
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: Just Joe on August 17, 2018, 09:27:16 AM
I once visited a small town dentist whose operation was shabby. Not frugal but shabby. We did not return. The Frank Burns of dentistry.

More than few times in my years shabby appearances have led to other short comings. Not always but enough.

I don't assume the guy with gold plated plumbing is anything special though. He's likely just expensive and certainly has different priorities than me.

I like our dentist. Clean office. The dentist and his staff drive ordinary vehicles. Everything is neat and orderly. Service is good.
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: ixtap on August 17, 2018, 09:50:18 AM
I once visited a small town dentist whose operation was shabby. Not frugal but shabby. We did not return. The Frank Burns of dentistry.

More than few times in my years shabby appearances have led to other short comings. Not always but enough.

I don't assume the guy with gold plated plumbing is anything special though. He's likely just expensive and certainly has different priorities than me.

I like our dentist. Clean office. The dentist and his staff drive ordinary vehicles. Everything is neat and orderly. Service is good.

Yes, but what about your dentist's car? I happen to know mine owns a big SUV because I seem to make appointments after lunch and get to watch her come back from lunch while I am getting my teeth cleaned.
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: greengardens on August 17, 2018, 10:01:55 AM
I worked in a law office and heard more than one client complain that a couple of the lawyers “must not be very good” because they drove older, somewhat beat up cars. I’ve also heard people say they wouldn’t use a certain realtor because they didn’t drive a nice car.
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: Loren Ver on August 17, 2018, 05:36:42 PM
I worked in a law office and heard more than one client complain that a couple of the lawyers “must not be very good” because they drove older, somewhat beat up cars. I’ve also heard people say they wouldn’t use a certain realtor because they didn’t drive a nice car.

If they are (maybe subconsciously) looking for someone that values the same thing as them.  If they value the bling, then this isn't a bad thing.  Much like many of us valuing the opposite.  Driving a beater could mean you can't manage to afford something nicer (or the messy divorce let you with nothing but scrap) but we like to think it is because frugal.... Still another assumption.

LV
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: Just Joe on August 20, 2018, 09:11:12 AM
I want to believe that anyone I hire is reasonably good at what they do and a fair value.

In my universe anyone that is decently talented and thoughtful about their life ought to be able to afford a clean office, decent tools, a reasonable vehicle - and be motivated to maintain at least that standard of equipment and reinvestment into his/her business.  If the guy/gal arrived (in our town) driving a Ferrari my gut feeling was that he was too expensive, heavily into debt or spends 35 seconds with each patient.

Unless I lived in Beverly Hills or Miami Beach - which I definitely don't.

I once worked for an employer who took every nickel they could out of the business. No reinvestment. Did not value the employees. From my POV did not seem to value the customers either beyond the cash flow they represented. The job served me well for the time I worked it but I would never want to do business with them. They by the way are out of business b/c the customers weren't valued either. Turns out that there was alot of spendy pants behavior and a drug addiction involved behind the scenes by the proprietor.

I can appreciate a clean, well kept budget used car/office/wardrobe/equipment. When a business lets their "don't give a flip" show I'm out.
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: Mesmoiselle on August 20, 2018, 09:24:06 PM
My brother credited me with this great idea two days back.

withdrawing a $500 loan at 7%?? interest to invest in the stock market.

I vehemently denied making such a suggestion, I promise such words would never have come out of my mouth. Told him such, and he just implied I was pissing on his parade.

v-v
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: ysette9 on August 20, 2018, 10:07:32 PM
What could possibly go wrong?! All he has to do is hope for long-term average market returns to..... well, tread water once I flatiron is taken into account. Sounds like a winning strategy to me.
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: Linea_Norway on August 21, 2018, 12:03:54 AM
My brother credited me with this great idea two days back.

withdrawing a $500 loan at 7%?? interest to invest in the stock market.

I vehemently denied making such a suggestion, I promise such words would never have come out of my mouth. Told him such, and he just implied I was pissing on his parade.

v-v

Maybe you once mentioned not paying down your mortgage and investing in the stock market? Your brother might think loan = loan.
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: talltexan on August 21, 2018, 07:42:22 AM
What is your brother's source for the 7% loan? It's too small to be something like a HELOC, but it's not a great match for the best credit card teaser rates that are out there.
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: Mesmoiselle on August 21, 2018, 12:01:19 PM
What is your brother's source for the 7% loan? It's too small to be something like a HELOC, but it's not a great match for the best credit card teaser rates that are out there.

He's gotten into these Apps that reward you for buying things. I actually tried one, Drop, and have gotten two free Starbucks coffees this way while not changing my spending habits at all.  I'll ask him the name of it, but it's some sort of micro loan app that helps you build your credit.  When I told my husband this story, he mentioned that investing the money may be against the TOU of the micro loan.
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: frugalfoothills on August 22, 2018, 10:38:24 AM
Y'all, the Millionaires (after being relatively low-key for a while during the office opening, minus the whole Tahoe situation) have blown my mind yet again. I got on Facebook last night and there was a notification that "Millionaire's Chiropractic Office has updated their office hours!" so I went to take a peek. Get a load of this!

Monday: 10am-1pm, 3pm-6pm
Tuesday: 3pm-6pm
Wednesday: 8am-1pm
Thursday: 10am-1pm, 3pm-6pm
Friday: CLOSED
Saturday: CLOSED
Sunday: CLOSED

If you did the math like I did, that is a 20 hour work week. I texted my sister and basically said the fuck is with these office hours!? She explained that sometimes on those (less than) half days, they will be doing "health talks" to try to get new customers to sign up, so technically they'll still be working. They will be "cramming as many people as possible" into small office time slots "so that we aren't working 12 hours a day." Working 12 hours a day!?!?! There's not a day on that schedule that even hits the standard 8!!

I have to think the "Health Talk" time would be better spent in the office treating actual, paying patients, but what do I know.
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: iris lily on August 22, 2018, 11:01:56 AM
Y'all, the Millionaires (after being relatively low-key for a while during the office opening, minus the whole Tahoe situation) have blown my mind yet again. I got on Facebook last night and there was a notification that "Millionaire's Chiropractic Office has updated their office hours!" so I went to take a peek. Get a load of this!

Monday: 10am-1pm, 3pm-6pm
Tuesday: 3pm-6pm
Wednesday: 8am-1pm
Thursday: 10am-1pm, 3pm-6pm
Friday: CLOSED
Saturday: CLOSED
Sunday: CLOSED

If you did the math like I did, that is a 20 hour work week. I texted my sister and basically said the fuck is with these office hours!? She explained that sometimes on those (less than) half days, they will be doing "health talks" to try to get new customers to sign up, so technically they'll still be working. They will be "cramming as many people as possible" into small office time slots "so that we aren't working 12 hours a day." Working 12 hours a day!?!?! There's not a day on that schedule that even hits the standard 8!!

I have to think the "Health Talk" time would be better spent in the office treating actual, paying patients, but what do I know.
Score! Great update.
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: boarder42 on August 22, 2018, 11:03:56 AM
Y'all, the Millionaires (after being relatively low-key for a while during the office opening, minus the whole Tahoe situation) have blown my mind yet again. I got on Facebook last night and there was a notification that "Millionaire's Chiropractic Office has updated their office hours!" so I went to take a peek. Get a load of this!

Monday: 10am-1pm, 3pm-6pm
Tuesday: 3pm-6pm
Wednesday: 8am-1pm
Thursday: 10am-1pm, 3pm-6pm
Friday: CLOSED
Saturday: CLOSED
Sunday: CLOSED

If you did the math like I did, that is a 20 hour work week. I texted my sister and basically said the fuck is with these office hours!? She explained that sometimes on those (less than) half days, they will be doing "health talks" to try to get new customers to sign up, so technically they'll still be working. They will be "cramming as many people as possible" into small office time slots "so that we aren't working 12 hours a day." Working 12 hours a day!?!?! There's not a day on that schedule that even hits the standard 8!!

I have to think the "Health Talk" time would be better spent in the office treating actual, paying patients, but what do I know.

keeping hours like this makes them selective and high end.  You have to really try and plan to get in here.  Just like when facebook was exclusive to college kids.  They are creating an exclusive environment where they can charge more for their services.  Also if they are selling these annual plans then making the times you can actually use it limited while signing up more people to the plans seems like a great way to build a huge business of doing nothing but collecting cash.

You know until people realize its not usable and they dont need a plan. so they'll make killing this year
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: MarciaB on August 22, 2018, 11:04:10 AM
Well, to be fair...a business owner needs time to work on the business in addition to working in the business. But then again, if a week contains a total of 168 hours and only 20 of them are actual patient hours...Well. Uh. Yeah. 
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: Maenad on August 22, 2018, 11:24:37 AM
keeping hours like this makes them selective and high end.  You have to really try and plan to get in here. 

I know this works - we've all seen it. But I've also seen it fail miserably. Total thread hijack, but how do companies/services/restaurants actually do this? Get a few movers and shakers to talk up the place? Advertise in the "right" places? And do the Soon-To-Be Millionaires know how to do this? How does someone even learn?

I obviously didn't grow up in that atmosphere.
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: boarder42 on August 22, 2018, 12:07:17 PM
Y'all, the Millionaires (after being relatively low-key for a while during the office opening, minus the whole Tahoe situation) have blown my mind yet again. I got on Facebook last night and there was a notification that "Millionaire's Chiropractic Office has updated their office hours!" so I went to take a peek. Get a load of this!

Monday: 10am-1pm, 3pm-6pm
Tuesday: 3pm-6pm
Wednesday: 8am-1pm
Thursday: 10am-1pm, 3pm-6pm
Friday: CLOSED
Saturday: CLOSED
Sunday: CLOSED

If you did the math like I did, that is a 20 hour work week. I texted my sister and basically said the fuck is with these office hours!? She explained that sometimes on those (less than) half days, they will be doing "health talks" to try to get new customers to sign up, so technically they'll still be working. They will be "cramming as many people as possible" into small office time slots "so that we aren't working 12 hours a day." Working 12 hours a day!?!?! There's not a day on that schedule that even hits the standard 8!!

I have to think the "Health Talk" time would be better spent in the office treating actual, paying patients, but what do I know.

keeping hours like this makes them selective and high end.  You have to really try and plan to get in here.  Just like when facebook was exclusive to college kids.  They are creating an exclusive environment where they can charge more for their services.  Also if they are selling these annual plans then making the times you can actually use it limited while signing up more people to the plans seems like a great way to build a huge business of doing nothing but collecting cash.

You know until people realize its not usable and they dont need a plan. so they'll make killing this year

Except that they haven't yet earned that reputation.
He has no experience, no patients to refer people to him, and no history of online reviews.
Also, unless he's opened up shop in some magical location where there is a high demand for chiro and a low supply, then he's likely to face some stiff competition in a generally heavily oversaturated market.

Initial clinic openings tend to attract a bunch of new people at first, but it's not enough to pack a full schedule. I don't know chiro at all, but for my industry it takes a solid 1200-1500 ongoing patients, plus a steady flow of new patients every month. It's unlikely that there's just a thousand or so untreated chiro patients sitting around waiting for OP's BIL to open up shop.
They will likely get their initial burst, and then if they are lucky they will get a steady influx that allows them to build their patient load to be able to fill a full time schedule, but it's not something that happens immediately.

The newbie clinics with nothing going for them tend to open at least some evenings and some weekends in order to stand out and offer *something* that the more established clinics don't. Those leisure hours have to be earned. You can't just decide to be exclusive without the demonstrable reputation to back it up. Besides, what's up with the 2 hour lunches??

I'm saying this as someone who gets paid to consult on exactly this type of thing but not for chiro.

i agree my post was entirely sacrasm.
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: boarder42 on August 22, 2018, 12:11:42 PM
the internets are hard with a personality like mine where nothing  say is really serious - unless its about a mortgage.  then i care.
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: turketron on August 22, 2018, 12:52:28 PM
Maybe they're taking some pointers from Entertainment 720's business strategies?

Quote
Leslie: I thought you were doing great. I tried to hire you once and you said you were all booked up.
Tom: That was a business tactic. For the first two weeks we told everyone we were booked solid to make people want us more.
Leslie: Ohhh no, that's the stupidest idea I have ever heard.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zbKaPN-0NcM
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: frugalfoothills on August 22, 2018, 02:47:17 PM
Maybe they're taking some pointers from Entertainment 720's business strategies?

Quote
Leslie: I thought you were doing great. I tried to hire you once and you said you were all booked up.
Tom: That was a business tactic. For the first two weeks we told everyone we were booked solid to make people want us more.
Leslie: Ohhh no, that's the stupidest idea I have ever heard.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zbKaPN-0NcM

*jean ralphio voice* they are FLUUUUUUUSH with CAAAAAAAAASH!!!!
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: frugalfoothills on August 22, 2018, 02:52:11 PM
Joke of the day:

Sister sends me a picture message. She's lying facedown on a table and the skin of her back is red and inflamed from her neck to her waist. I'm like OMG, what happened!?!?!

"My acupuncturist did that to me earlier today!"

Oh wow. That looks bad. Why were you at the acupuncturist?

"Well, I've just been having a lot of neck and back pain lately..."
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: iris lily on August 22, 2018, 05:40:02 PM

Quote
...Funnily enough, the more over saturated a medical industry is, the harder it is to make money, and the more practitioners spend on extremely expensive measures to try and boost their patient numbers and their profits. Meanwhile salaries on average continue to plummet.

This is new information! Who knew this!!!



Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: Mesmoiselle on August 22, 2018, 07:13:11 PM
My brother credited me with this great idea two days back.

withdrawing a $500 loan at 7%?? interest to invest in the stock market.
........

Maybe you once mentioned not paying down your mortgage and investing in the stock market? Your brother might think loan = loan.

Oh my gosh, maybe. I may have actually said something along these lines but in my defense-- my home loan is 3.5% and I only owe 29k at the moment. I've prioritized other savings, like maxing out the 401k and personal Interest Charging loans to Trustworthy family members....and I have maybe just barely recently gotten to the point where I would even BUY stocks and I still feel like I should pay off the house.

But I should definitely clarify with him that my 3.5% barely makes investment in the market worth it and probably only barely.

The Microloan place is called Moneylion: https://www.moneylion.com/ (https://www.moneylion.com/)

I actually tried to find what the hell they actually do on their website and it was a bit obtuse, so I found this website to explain it:
https://www.highya.com/moneylion-reviews (https://www.highya.com/moneylion-reviews)

7% only if he has good credit ( he doesn't) with a 2-6% fee just to get the loan. Let's assume that fee is also based on safety, so $35 for his $500 plan.  As far as I can tell, they only want you to pay interest every month, there is no payment required on the main loan. (sounds predatory.) You can do free work for them by writing reviews and letting them stalk everything about you (Facebook, phone number, email, bank accounts, credit card accounts) in exchange for "up to a 15% reduction in your interest charges."
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: SeaWA on August 22, 2018, 11:16:01 PM
Joke of the day:

Sister sends me a picture message. She's lying facedown on a table and the skin of her back is red and inflamed from her neck to her waist. I'm like OMG, what happened!?!?!

"My acupuncturist did that to me earlier today!"

Oh wow. That looks bad. Why were you at the acupuncturist?

"Well, I've just been having a lot of neck and back pain lately..."

Pure gold!

Thanks for the update!
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: Linea_Norway on August 23, 2018, 12:42:11 AM
<...> Besides, what's up with the 2 hour lunches??
<...>

That's simple. That is the time you need to drive to your luncheon restaurant on the other side of the city, have a quiet lunch and drive back again.
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: Apple_Tango on August 23, 2018, 05:48:51 AM
If they want to keep leisure hours, I think they should be open Friday, Saturday, and Sunday. (Maybe they could close on Monday/Tuesday?) The weekends are when other working people have time off! You know when they also have time off? On their various lunch breaks! How inconvenient that the chiropractic office they really want to use is closed on the days and times they would actually use the service.

Seriously, the only person I know with a schedule with free time at 10 am on a given weekday is my grandma
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: hops on August 23, 2018, 06:31:22 AM
I know because I am both a medical professional and a consultant.
I am "cold called" on a nearly daily basis by consultants from all over the country and from the US trying to sell me on how I can get more patients or increase my billings.

Funnily enough, the more over saturated a medical industry is, the harder it is to make money, and the more practitioners spend on extremely expensive measures to try and boost their patient numbers and their profits. Meanwhile salaries on average continue to plummet.

You're in dentistry, aren't you? Oversaturation in that field and in optometry is particularly interesting in light of the student loan debt burden those graduates carry.

OP, please update us if your brother-in-law starts selling multi-level marketing products to his "patients." Almost every chiropractor I know of who claims to be wildly successful eventually sinks to hocking MLM vitamins or shakes on the side.
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: talltexan on August 23, 2018, 06:39:07 AM
I actually don't think this is strange. They probably calculated their profit-margin for patient and arrived at these hours being the ones they need to fill. Staying open until 6 allows for people on a normal work schedule to come in.

If there were one tweak I could offer, it'd be offering an early morning day, something like 6-9 am.
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: Dicey on August 23, 2018, 07:19:00 AM
the internets are hard with a personality like mine where nothing  say is really serious - unless its about a mortgage.  then i care.
And thank goodness you do! (Totally serious, not sarcasm.)
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: calimom on August 23, 2018, 06:09:46 PM
I'm guessing the people who were roped into signing up for a "package" of visits are going to be a mite frustrated when they find they can't schedule actual….visits and all. Especially if they work regular hours and need to have an adjustment after work, on their lunch hour, on Saturday morning or such.
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: ixtap on August 23, 2018, 06:17:31 PM
I'm guessing the people who were roped into signing up for a "package" of visits are going to be a mite frustrated when they find they can't schedule actual….visits and all. Especially if they work regular hours and need to have an adjustment after work, on their lunch hour, on Saturday morning or such.

I would ask for my money back if the hours changed to be less convenient to me after I signed up.
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: Cpa Cat on August 26, 2018, 11:50:19 AM
Devil's advocate... Limiting hours makes sense to me.

They don't have many clients, and it's an incredibly inefficient use of time if they book an appointment at 9am then one at 10:30 am then one at 1pm and then one at 4pm. By restricting the hours, they funnel the patients into a more back-to-back schedule.

I agree with a previous poster who said it makes more sense to open on Saturday and be closed mid week, and to have at least one half day where you work 10am-2pm to catch lunch hours.


Crazy long lunches are really common among chiropractors and some other doctors for some reason - I don't get it. It's really annoying to call a doctor's office at 1:30pm and find out the whole office is on some F-ed up lunch vacation.
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: hops on August 26, 2018, 01:00:46 PM
Crazy long lunches are really common among chiropractors and some other doctors for some reason - I don't get it. It's really annoying to call a doctor's office at 1:30pm and find out the whole office is on some F-ed up lunch vacation.

"F-ed up lunch vacations" is a great term that I want to use now in my everyday life. My dentist's office holds office meetings/team bonding time during their long lunch breaks and then posts photos on Facebook. If you examine them closely, you'll see some of the employees have wide smiles but eyes pleading for help.

Medical offices frequently aren't doing anything fun during those long breaks, either. Unless you're a fan of hours-long lectures, seminars, or other work-related meetings.
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: Cassie on August 26, 2018, 01:37:39 PM
I would not go to a chiropractor whose hours were inconvenient.  My chiropractor is always busy and can easily fill up his hours. I have never had a chiropractor be open on the weekend but usually some early evening hours such as closing at 6pm. My chiropractor also doesn’t charge a office visit on top of the adjustment. If you pay the day of service it is $45.  They don’t accept CC’s so it keeps their costs down.  They take some insurance but not all. For instance my insurance only wants to pay them $17/visit because they charge so little. Their overhead is more than that on a per person basis. This simple business plan has made them millions.  So to make my insurance work they would have to charge for office visit too and they refused to play that game. We live in a MCOL.
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: Abe on August 26, 2018, 01:49:14 PM
I’d like to work at one of these crazy-Long lunch vacation places. None of the clinics I’ve ever worked in allow more than the minimum time required. Also they often have the receptionist take lunch at a different time than noon so they can field calls to come in during patients’ lunch Breaks.
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: AMandM on August 26, 2018, 06:20:34 PM
<...> Besides, what's up with the 2 hour lunches??
<...>

That's simple. That is the time you need to drive to your luncheon restaurant on the other side of the city, have a quiet lunch and drive back again.

From Nancy Mitford's "Paris Column" in the Sunday Times, December 9, 1951:

I was rung up from UNO by a member of the French delegation whom I had not seen for some time. 'Come to luncheon,' I said. But he replied gloomily that he gets only two hours off, and it takes ten minutes to my house. The idea of bolting his food in 100 minutes clearly appalled him, and he said that we must eat in Passy.
Now the UN building is full of entrances and, as we could not afford to lose precious minutes looking for each other, we decided that it would be safest to meet in the Musee de l'Homme [...]. We met sharp at one o'clock and raced to a local bistro where we happily guzzled until three minutes to three. 'You see,' he said, 'we've only just done it in the time.'
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: talltexan on August 27, 2018, 07:33:13 AM
Indeed I had a friend from France in Grad School: I took a train to DT chicago, met him for lunch, and was leaving at something like 4:15 pm after multiple bottles of wine.

The one nice thing was that we picked up some beautiful women to join us for the lunch. Because, you know, France.
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: TheGrimSqueaker on August 27, 2018, 11:59:17 PM

Quote
...Funnily enough, the more over saturated a medical industry is, the harder it is to make money, and the more practitioners spend on extremely expensive measures to try and boost their patient numbers and their profits. Meanwhile salaries on average continue to plummet.

This is new information! Who knew this!!!

The phenomenon exists far beyond the medical industry. There are plenty of consultants, services, and other businesses that provide only one thing: advice about how to improve other people's businesses. Very little of it is based on an actual audit or assessment of the business itself: it's more likely to be whizbang marketing or a bunch of modern astrology about how to better justify a previous decision to stereotype, limit, and criticize your individual employees while simultaneously wasting their time.

Supposedly all of this is intended to increase productivity or reduce turnover. In practice it just helps everybody learn the trendiest new buzzwords (assuming they can stay awake with all the jargon floating around the room). Afterwards the employees presumably go off and tiger team their woke leverage with the rest of the solution architects... which is particularly ineffective if what you hired them to do is to rotate tires, flip burgers, take vital signs, or write software code.

Many of these companies do indeed direct their "services" at particular industries. There's an equally pernicious group of consultants that feed off of job seekers.
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: Laura33 on August 28, 2018, 08:48:55 AM
Maybe they have limited their hours because they don't have enough clients yet, and they would like to spin that into being "selective" instead of "desperate"?

Re: consultants:  well of course there is a direct correlation between tightening markets and prevalence of miracle-promising consultants; why would you bother paying someone to tell you how to run your business when you're doing fine as is?  It's when things get tight that the difference between a well-run and poorly-run operation really shows, and the latter get desperate.

My mom runs her own consulting business helping small charities learn how to do effective fundraising and run capital campaigns and the like.  When the Great Recession hit, she was very very worried, because charitable donations were down significantly, so, she thought, who would have money to spare to hire a consultant?  She ended up having her best year ever, and then the one after that was even better, and so on.  Because when the overall charitable pie shrank, the little guys were desperate to figure out how to get a bigger share of it to stay in business.
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: TonyV. on August 28, 2018, 04:05:38 PM
I'm way late to this game, but definitely following from here on out!! She had neck and back pain, but here hunband wasn't good enough to fix it for her?! HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: Apple_Tango on August 28, 2018, 06:28:59 PM
I'm way late to this game, but definitely following from here on out!! She had neck and back pain, but here hunband wasn't good enough to fix it for her?! HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!

Somehow the irony went way over my head and I’m so glad you pointed it out! Oh man that’s ridiculous ha
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: marty998 on August 29, 2018, 03:55:22 AM
Afterwards the employees presumably go off and tiger team their woke leverage with the rest of the solution architects...

In a scrum, with agile.

@TheGrimSqueaker and @plainjane. As Scrum Master of this Scrum Team I am disappointed in the lack of Scrum Values you are both displaying.

I'm going to write this up on the Scrum Board.

Now go work on your Sprint Backlog before we conduct our Sprint Retrospective and Sprint Reviews of this debacle.
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: partgypsy on August 29, 2018, 10:54:48 AM
No Friday, Saturday or Sunday hours. How convenient for those who work full time. I do feel it makes sense to limit the hours at this time point. But they should have at least 1 "weekend" day where they see clients.
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: TheGrimSqueaker on August 29, 2018, 01:08:05 PM
Afterwards the employees presumably go off and tiger team their woke leverage with the rest of the solution architects...
In a scrum, with agile.
@TheGrimSqueaker and @plainjane. As Scrum Master of this Scrum Team I am disappointed in the lack of Scrum Values you are both displaying.

I'm going to write this up on the Scrum Board.

Now go work on your Sprint Backlog before we conduct our Sprint Retrospective and Sprint Reviews of this debacle.

I apologize for not living the team values or following the spirit of the social contract that we all wrote out together at the beginning of this project. I hang my head and have returned to reviewing Trello cards.

I, however, have just completed a blackout on my Buzzword Bingo card. What do I win?
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: patchyfacialhair on August 29, 2018, 01:31:29 PM
Afterwards the employees presumably go off and tiger team their woke leverage with the rest of the solution architects...
In a scrum, with agile.
@TheGrimSqueaker and @plainjane. As Scrum Master of this Scrum Team I am disappointed in the lack of Scrum Values you are both displaying.

I'm going to write this up on the Scrum Board.

Now go work on your Sprint Backlog before we conduct our Sprint Retrospective and Sprint Reviews of this debacle.

I apologize for not living the team values or following the spirit of the social contract that we all wrote out together at the beginning of this project. I hang my head and have returned to reviewing Trello cards.

I, however, have just completed a blackout on my Buzzword Bingo card. What do I win?

Synergy
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: talltexan on August 29, 2018, 01:50:52 PM
No Friday, Saturday or Sunday hours. How convenient for those who work full time. I do feel it makes sense to limit the hours at this time point. But they should have at least 1 "weekend" day where they see clients.

People keep saying it makes sense to limit their hours, but why does this make sense?

Unless they have staff that they are paying, then the only cost to staying open is their own time and the electricity for the lights. It’s a new business, it’s normal to put in a lot of unpaid hours. Efficiency only comes into play once the practice has enough patients, until then, attracting patients is the top priority.

Closing during certain hours to give “health talks” to drum up business could make sense, although assuming that his wife is capable of working reception, they could still keep the doors open for foot traffic and she could provide info and book potential patients even if he’s out giving a talk.

If he is in a visible location with a lot of foot traffic, then he should be open as much as possible to cast the widest net for that foot traffic and get the most benefit.

Sure, if you have more than enough patients and a stable patient flow to sustain a practice, then you can work whatever hours you want. Until then, more hours means more potential patients, and limiting hours limits exposure and convenience.

Two different visions for how you build this business: walk-in customers, or person-to-person networking. If the latter is closer to their strategy, then the reduced hours make sense.
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: yourusernamehere on August 29, 2018, 02:45:29 PM
Afterwards the employees presumably go off and tiger team their woke leverage with the rest of the solution architects...
In a scrum, with agile.
@TheGrimSqueaker and @plainjane. As Scrum Master of this Scrum Team I am disappointed in the lack of Scrum Values you are both displaying.

I'm going to write this up on the Scrum Board.

Now go work on your Sprint Backlog before we conduct our Sprint Retrospective and Sprint Reviews of this debacle.

I apologize for not living the team values or following the spirit of the social contract that we all wrote out together at the beginning of this project. I hang my head and have returned to reviewing Trello cards.
I come here to get away from this!
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: Laura33 on August 29, 2018, 03:16:19 PM
Afterwards the employees presumably go off and tiger team their woke leverage with the rest of the solution architects...
In a scrum, with agile.
@TheGrimSqueaker and @plainjane. As Scrum Master of this Scrum Team I am disappointed in the lack of Scrum Values you are both displaying.

I'm going to write this up on the Scrum Board.

Now go work on your Sprint Backlog before we conduct our Sprint Retrospective and Sprint Reviews of this debacle.

I apologize for not living the team values or following the spirit of the social contract that we all wrote out together at the beginning of this project. I hang my head and have returned to reviewing Trello cards.
I come here to get away from this!

I am so, so thankful that I have absolutely no idea what any of this means.
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: prudent_one on August 29, 2018, 05:25:58 PM
Afterwards the employees presumably go off and tiger team their woke leverage with the rest of the solution architects...

In a scrum, with agile.
AAHHHH! My neighbor regales me occasionally with stories of the 3 Agile/Scrum zealots his company brought in. Take any word that people instinctively understand, they make up a new one. The latest one he told me was that when Zealot #3 decided to change the periodic <some agile buzzword here> meeting, they didn't tell people they updated the calendar when they moved the future meetings. They updated the cadence.

You know how some software has open issues that need to be fixed? Not theirs, they have defect debt. I just have to laugh.
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: stclurker on August 29, 2018, 09:00:05 PM
just posting to follow the train wreck
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: Linea_Norway on August 30, 2018, 01:07:22 AM
Afterwards the employees presumably go off and tiger team their woke leverage with the rest of the solution architects...
In a scrum, with agile.
@TheGrimSqueaker and @plainjane. As Scrum Master of this Scrum Team I am disappointed in the lack of Scrum Values you are both displaying.

I'm going to write this up on the Scrum Board.

Now go work on your Sprint Backlog before we conduct our Sprint Retrospective and Sprint Reviews of this debacle.

I apologize for not living the team values or following the spirit of the social contract that we all wrote out together at the beginning of this project. I hang my head and have returned to reviewing Trello cards.
I come here to get away from this!

I am so, so thankful that I have absolutely no idea what any of this means.

Today I am up for a whole day of meetings according these scrum buzzwords. Puke!
Good to hear that more normal (MMM) people find the scrum business a provoking BS method.
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: jinga nation on August 30, 2018, 10:00:50 AM
Afterwards the employees presumably go off and tiger team their woke leverage with the rest of the solution architects...
In a scrum, with agile.
@TheGrimSqueaker and @plainjane. As Scrum Master of this Scrum Team I am disappointed in the lack of Scrum Values you are both displaying.

I'm going to write this up on the Scrum Board.

Now go work on your Sprint Backlog before we conduct our Sprint Retrospective and Sprint Reviews of this debacle.

I apologize for not living the team values or following the spirit of the social contract that we all wrote out together at the beginning of this project. I hang my head and have returned to reviewing Trello cards.
I come here to get away from this!

I am so, so thankful that I have absolutely no idea what any of this means.

Today I am up for a whole day of meetings according these scrum buzzwords. Puke!
Good to hear that more normal (MMM) people find the scrum business a provoking BS method.

I had enough of the buzzword baloney shit sandwiches during my time at HoneyHell doing Six Sigma. When I left that shithole, swore that if any company that I worked for decided to implement stupid shit like that, it was time to move on.

I work with code developers and operations engineers, we use git and terraform and aws cli and a lot of devops tools, but we don't do the stupid scrumbumfucks and agile-cluster-fuckery-yoga-twistys.

Fuck all these idiocracies that claim to increase productivity and being told by non-technical people running dumbfuck meetings how to develop code. Dumbass mofos need to bumblefuck doubletime and gtfo to bumfuckegypt.
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: ysette9 on August 30, 2018, 10:40:26 AM
Hahah

Tell us what you really think!
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: Apples on August 30, 2018, 12:35:54 PM
I'm so lucky I work in production ag.  I never, ever use buzzwords.  Unless "food safety" is a buzzword.  I'm imagining having to sit in a meeting where they're telling me about calling a calendar a "cadence" and I would be like....but why?  And then channel my inner Ron Swanson to tell them no, I'm not doing that, we all know it's a calendar.  And what is a scrum?  I thought that was some rugby thing?
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: a286 on August 30, 2018, 12:48:08 PM
We have introduced TPM in my workplace... at the rate they are going, it will take 20 years to implement across all systems in each location in the division.

I dont plan on being here for that.
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: TheGrimSqueaker on August 30, 2018, 03:09:08 PM
I'm so lucky I work in production ag.  I never, ever use buzzwords.  Unless "food safety" is a buzzword.  I'm imagining having to sit in a meeting where they're telling me about calling a calendar a "cadence" and I would be like....but why?  And then channel my inner Ron Swanson to tell them no, I'm not doing that, we all know it's a calendar.  And what is a scrum?  I thought that was some rugby thing?

They pick words that sound masochistic so people know in advance that they're signing up to be miserable for the duration.
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: Abe on August 30, 2018, 09:12:01 PM
Maybe I'm out of date - is Kaizen a thing anymore?
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: barbaz on August 31, 2018, 12:18:14 AM
Today I am up for a whole day of meetings according these scrum buzzwords. Puke!
Good to hear that more normal (MMM) people find the scrum business a provoking BS method.
Seriously though, if you think these meetings are a waste of time, you should point that out in the retrospective. That’s what it’s for.

For those who don’t know, scrum has a regular meeting with the single purpose of giving everyone a chance to complain about how things are done and to suggest improvements. I think a lot of companies could benefit from that.
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: runbikerun on August 31, 2018, 02:08:15 AM
The use of the word scrum in a business meeting sense, along with similar bullshit like referring to top-tier coders as"rockstar", is infuriating. I spent four years playing rugby, two of them as a loosehead prop, and an actual scrum is light years from a stand-up meeting about tasks for the day.

Nobody discusses anything in a scrum. A call is made, and everybody shuts the fuck up and does their job. All you can think about as a prop is the guy opposite you and how to shove his head between his knees using nothing but your shoulder. All you can think about as a lock is getting your shoulders just under your front row's arses and driving into them as hard as you can. The only workplace environment I've ever been in that comes close to replicating the psychological feeling of scrummaging was the lunchtime rush at Burger King when I was seventeen years old.

Calling a staff meeting a scrum is insulting to rugby players, indicative of a total lack of knowledge of what a scrum actually is, and a bullshit attempt to imbue management theory with a badass aura it absolutely does not deserve.
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: UnleashHell on August 31, 2018, 03:58:13 AM
The use of the word scrum in a business meeting sense, along with similar bullshit like referring to top-tier coders as"rockstar", is infuriating. I spent four years playing rugby, two of them as a loosehead prop, and an actual scrum is light years from a stand-up meeting about tasks for the day.

Nobody discusses anything in a scrum. A call is made, and everybody shuts the fuck up and does their job. All you can think about as a prop is the guy opposite you and how to shove his head between his knees using nothing but your shoulder. All you can think about as a lock is getting your shoulders just under your front row's arses and driving into them as hard as you can. The only workplace environment I've ever been in that comes close to replicating the psychological feeling of scrummaging was the lunchtime rush at Burger King when I was seventeen years old.

Calling a staff meeting a scrum is insulting to rugby players, indicative of a total lack of knowledge of what a scrum actually is, and a bullshit attempt to imbue management theory with a badass aura it absolutely does not deserve.

and always protect your hooker.


please.
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: marty998 on August 31, 2018, 04:47:25 AM
Afterwards the employees presumably go off and tiger team their woke leverage with the rest of the solution architects...
In a scrum, with agile.
@TheGrimSqueaker and @plainjane. As Scrum Master of this Scrum Team I am disappointed in the lack of Scrum Values you are both displaying.

I'm going to write this up on the Scrum Board.

Now go work on your Sprint Backlog before we conduct our Sprint Retrospective and Sprint Reviews of this debacle.

I apologize for not living the team values or following the spirit of the social contract that we all wrote out together at the beginning of this project. I hang my head and have returned to reviewing Trello cards.
I come here to get away from this!

I am so, so thankful that I have absolutely no idea what any of this means.

Today I am up for a whole day of meetings according these scrum buzzwords. Puke!
Good to hear that more normal (MMM) people find the scrum business a provoking BS method.

I had enough of the buzzword baloney shit sandwiches during my time at HoneyHell doing Six Sigma. When I left that shithole, swore that if any company that I worked for decided to implement stupid shit like that, it was time to move on.

I work with code developers and operations engineers, we use git and terraform and aws cli and a lot of devops tools, but we don't do the stupid scrumbumfucks and agile-cluster-fuckery-yoga-twistys.

Fuck all these idiocracies that claim to increase productivity and being told by non-technical people running dumbfuck meetings how to develop code. Dumbass mofos need to bumblefuck doubletime and gtfo to bumfuckegypt.

At least we've stopped trying to be ahead of the curve. My company talks a lot now about being simpler, yet at last count we have 1800 different products.
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: Linea_Norway on August 31, 2018, 04:53:19 AM
Calling a staff meeting a scrum is insulting to rugby players, indicative of a total lack of knowledge of what a scrum actually is, and a bullshit attempt to imbue management theory with a badass aura it absolutely does not deserve.

Can you please send a rugby team over here to tell my boss that?
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: Spud on August 31, 2018, 10:59:02 AM
In this context, the word cadence, if we dropped all the business jargon and bullshit and instead used plain English, would simply be called "frequency". That's right folks. It's simply how frequently the meeting takes place. Fuck cadence. Seriously.
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: barbaz on August 31, 2018, 11:02:01 AM
Calling a staff meeting a scrum is insulting to rugby players, indicative of a total lack of knowledge of what a scrum actually is, and a bullshit attempt to imbue management theory with a badass aura it absolutely does not deserve.

Can you please send a rugby team over here to tell my boss that?
Scrum isn’t a meeting, it’s a process. Which consists of different meetings, among other things.
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: Davnasty on August 31, 2018, 11:26:42 AM
In this context, the word cadence, if we dropped all the business jargon and bullshit and instead used plain English, would simply be called "frequency". That's right folks. It's simply how frequently the meeting takes place. Fuck cadence. Seriously.

Frequency seems more apt in terms of meetings. I've always thought of cadence as referring to rhythmic motion. Just checked the definition and it seems to refer specifically to sounds. I assume the connection to motion comes from using sound to regulate motion, as in calling cadence while marching. I would accept cadence to refer to motion or sound. Cadence of meetings is hereby unacceptable :)
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: prudent_one on September 01, 2018, 07:40:19 PM
I'm so lucky I work in production ag.  I never, ever use buzzwords.  Unless "food safety" is a buzzword.  I'm imagining having to sit in a meeting where they're telling me about calling a calendar a "cadence" and I would be like....but why?  And then channel my inner Ron Swanson to tell them no, I'm not doing that, we all know it's a calendar.  And what is a scrum?  I thought that was some rugby thing?

Actually, I quite like cadence. It is nice and musical. And it means something different from calendar. We meet once a month, that is the cadence. The calendar date doesn't matter. If we were meeting three times a week, and now we're meeting twice a week, that isn't a calendar change, it's a cadence change. Granted, some people probably are using it wrong because they just think it is a buzz word and not something with actual meaning and stuff.

I asked my neighbor what actually happened with the meeting change, he said the meetings are held every two weeks, and the change was to move all the future meetings out by one week. Still every two weeks, just on different dates.

Agree with you that frequency is a better match for "cadence".
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: K-ice on September 01, 2018, 10:47:29 PM
I was thinking of this thread last night while I waited 3 hours in the emergency room after my first ever visit to a chiropractor the other day, which obviously didn’t go well. Lol

Oh no, I hope you are feeling better.
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: ShoulderThingThatGoesUp on September 02, 2018, 05:48:37 AM
Maybe I'm out of date - is Kaizen a thing anymore?

I do some work for a large Japanese-owned company, and it sure is there.
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: jinga nation on September 04, 2018, 06:09:27 AM
Maybe I'm out of date - is Kaizen a thing anymore?

I do some work for a large Japanese-owned company, and it sure is there.
Some companies don't want to use that foreign word, but like the principles of Kaizen, so they rebrand it. e.g. Honeywell Operating System (HOS). Then they add in Six Sigma and Lean. Proper HOSed.
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: frugalfoothills on September 06, 2018, 09:18:53 AM
To clarify: they do have a staff of two people... a "chiropractic assistant" and an office manager. They were childhood friends of my BIL and were working restaurant jobs prior to this. They are probably being paid minimum wage, zero benefits, etc. As for what my sister is doing...... very unclear.
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: Kay-Ell on September 10, 2018, 01:24:31 PM
In this context, the word cadence, if we dropped all the business jargon and bullshit and instead used plain English, would simply be called "frequency". That's right folks. It's simply how frequently the meeting takes place. Fuck cadence. Seriously.

Frequency seems more apt in terms of meetings. I've always thought of cadence as referring to rhythmic motion. Just checked the definition and it seems to refer specifically to sounds. I assume the connection to motion comes from using sound to regulate motion, as in calling cadence while marching. I would accept cadence to refer to motion or sound. Cadence of meetings is hereby unacceptable :)

The use of the term Cadence, as it pertains to business meetings, is a huge pet peeve of mine.  I'm a musician.  A Cadence is a series of chords to signal the ending of a piece of music (or sometimes a phrase within a piece of music).  Unless they're going to start playing the most comonly recognized, perfect cadence, at 5pm to signify the end of the work day, they can shut their pie holes about cadences.
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: lemanfan on September 10, 2018, 02:03:12 PM
Cadence is also a quite common terms in bicycling, meaning basically the pace of pedalling.
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: chaskavitch on September 10, 2018, 02:57:45 PM
Maybe I'm out of date - is Kaizen a thing anymore?

I do some work for a large Japanese-owned company, and it sure is there.
Some companies don't want to use that foreign word, but like the principles of Kaizen, so they rebrand it. e.g. Honeywell Operating System (HOS). Then they add in Six Sigma and Lean. Proper HOSed.

All the cube-people (as opposed to manufacturing floor people) in my company are going through Lean training right now.  They're still use the Kaizen terms too.  I like the concept, but it seems difficult to implement while trying to remember all of your new terms :)
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: iris lily on September 10, 2018, 06:55:53 PM
I was thinking of this thread last night while I waited 3 hours in the emergency room after my first ever visit to a chiropractor the other day, which obviously didn’t go well. Lol
i am very sorry to hear this. I dont trust the fkers myself and they are not going to crack or adjust or bend me.

Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: KodeBlue on September 12, 2018, 07:18:55 PM
. As for what my sister is doing...... very unclear.
Wasn't she teaching spin or something?
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: barbaz on September 13, 2018, 06:56:00 AM
I was thinking of this thread last night while I waited 3 hours in the emergency room after my first ever visit to a chiropractor the other day, which obviously didn’t go well. Lol
i am very sorry to hear this. I dont trust the fkers myself and they are not going to crack or adjust or bend me.

Oh thanks, I’m fine.
Yeah, I had 3 MDs that week warn me against chiro. MDs here seem to really hate chiros.
Mine comes highly recommended by my sports med doctor though, so who knows.
I’m mostly going for the Shockwave, which is like a massage on steroids.

I would never let anyone crack anything on my body, and after last time, there will never be dry needling again.
Maybe this is a good moment to point out that chiropractic is the quackery version of physical therapy with no standardized education nor empirically proven benefits unless where it coincidentally happens to be exactly like physical therapy. It is however proven to occasionally land people in a wheelchair.
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: I'm a red panda on September 13, 2018, 08:27:07 AM
Maybe I'm out of date - is Kaizen a thing anymore?

I do some work for a large Japanese-owned company, and it sure is there.
Some companies don't want to use that foreign word, but like the principles of Kaizen, so they rebrand it. e.g. Honeywell Operating System (HOS). Then they add in Six Sigma and Lean. Proper HOSed.

All the cube-people (as opposed to manufacturing floor people) in my company are going through Lean training right now.  They're still use the Kaizen terms too.  I like the concept, but it seems difficult to implement while trying to remember all of your new terms :)

We used Lean for awhile. Now I have to learn all the Agile buzzwords.

Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: Vibrissae on September 13, 2018, 12:18:14 PM
I was thinking of this thread last night while I waited 3 hours in the emergency room after my first ever visit to a chiropractor the other day, which obviously didn’t go well. Lol
i am very sorry to hear this. I dont trust the fkers myself and they are not going to crack or adjust or bend me.

Oh thanks, I’m fine.
Yeah, I had 3 MDs that week warn me against chiro. MDs here seem to really hate chiros.
Mine comes highly recommended by my sports med doctor though, so who knows.
I’m mostly going for the Shockwave, which is like a massage on steroids.

I would never let anyone crack anything on my body, and after last time, there will never be dry needling again.
Maybe this is a good moment to point out that chiropractic is the quackery version of physical therapy with no standardized education nor empirically proven benefits unless where it coincidentally happens to be exactly like physical therapy. It is however proven to occasionally land people in a wheelchair.

I have a chiropractor who's helped me so much, and yeah, he basically does physical therapy: heat, electrostimulation, ultrasound, lasers, massage. A couple of cracks at the very end, but gentle. I don't live in that town anymore, but on the infrequent occasions I need treatment, I drive an hour to go see him, because I don't want to deal with the hassle of trying to find a new chiro who isn't full of woo-woo BS.

I'd never heard of dry needling before now...

Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: jinga nation on September 13, 2018, 12:31:42 PM
Maybe I'm out of date - is Kaizen a thing anymore?

I do some work for a large Japanese-owned company, and it sure is there.
Some companies don't want to use that foreign word, but like the principles of Kaizen, so they rebrand it. e.g. Honeywell Operating System (HOS). Then they add in Six Sigma and Lean. Proper HOSed.

All the cube-people (as opposed to manufacturing floor people) in my company are going through Lean training right now.  They're still use the Kaizen terms too.  I like the concept, but it seems difficult to implement while trying to remember all of your new terms :)

We used Lean for awhile. Now I have to learn all the Agile buzzwords.
In a software/cloud world, not only do I have to learn and get certified in AWS and Azure with their tech terms, but also learn git, Jenkins, Salt, Terraform, etc, which have their own lingo. And Agile on top of that would drive me over the cliff. Plus there's ton of contract onsite lingo as the govt has their own acronym lexicon. Truly hosed I am.
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: frugalfoothills on September 13, 2018, 12:36:49 PM
. As for what my sister is doing...... very unclear.
Wasn't she teaching spin or something?

She has yet to teach a single class.
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: calimom on September 13, 2018, 07:10:46 PM
. As for what my sister is doing...... very unclear.
Wasn't she teaching spin or something?

She has yet to teach a single class.

She's waiting for the millions to kick in, meanwhile driving her new-to-her gas guzzler around, avoiding actual chiropractic clients as much as possible. So inconvenient, them!
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: Kahooli on September 13, 2018, 08:29:48 PM
I haven't read the whole thread... just the first and last page. But they really need to hear these words:
"Stop acting like you're rich, because you obviously are not"
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: KodeBlue on September 13, 2018, 09:42:34 PM
[She's waiting for the millions to kick in, meanwhile driving her new-to-her gas guzzler around, avoiding actual chiropractic clients as much as possible. So inconvenient, them!
I know just how she feels. I work in a hospital; it would be a great place to work if it wasn't for all the sick people that seem to congregate there.
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: barbaz on September 14, 2018, 08:33:31 AM
I haven't read the whole thread... just the first and last page. But they really need to hear these words:
"Stop acting like you're rich, because you obviously are not"
I hope they don’t, or we would get no more great stories.

I know just how she feels. I work in a hospital; it would be a great place to work if it wasn't for all the sick people that seem to congregate there.
I hear people die in hospitals a lot, maybe you really should work someplace safer?
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: iris lily on September 14, 2018, 09:12:10 AM
Funnily enough, the more over saturated a medical industry is, the harder it is to make money, and the more practitioners spend on extremely expensive measures to try and boost their patient numbers and their profits. Meanwhile salaries on average continue to plummet.


Isn't that pretty much any biz and not only the medical field?

I think the “Funnily enough” intro clues us that this is a pretty common economic law.
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: iris lily on September 14, 2018, 09:17:34 AM
I was thinking of this thread last night while I waited 3 hours in the emergency room after my first ever visit to a chiropractor the other day, which obviously didn’t go well. Lol
i am very sorry to hear this. I dont trust the fkers myself and they are not going to crack or adjust or bend me.

Oh thanks, I’m fine.
Yeah, I had 3 MDs that week warn me against chiro. MDs here seem to really hate chiros.
Mine comes highly recommended by my sports med doctor though, so who knows.
I’m mostly going for the Shockwave, which is like a massage on steroids.

I would never let anyone crack anything on my body, and after last time, there will never be dry needling again.
Maybe this is a good moment to point out that chiropractic is the quackery version of physical therapy with no standardized education nor empirically proven benefits unless where it coincidentally happens to be exactly like physical therapy. It is however proven to occasionally land people in a wheelchair.

Exactly! I think the problem may be that in order to get a physical therapist to treat you, ya gotta have orders from a regular western medicine Dr.  Most people want to skip that step.

My dad was a physical therapist from the 1940’s when it was a fairly new health science degree. I trust that profession and roll my eyes at the chiros having heard a lot over decades about their quack  work.
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: KodeBlue on September 14, 2018, 09:34:04 AM
I haven't read the whole thread... just the first and last page. But they really need to hear these words:
"Stop acting like you're rich, because you obviously are not"
I hope they don’t, or we would get no more great stories.

I know just how she feels. I work in a hospital; it would be a great place to work if it wasn't for all the sick people that seem to congregate there.
I hear people die in hospitals a lot, maybe you really should work someplace safer?
Made my day!
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: Laura33 on September 14, 2018, 10:13:00 AM
I'd never heard of dry needling before now...

It is acupuncture without the acupuncture training -- tends to be intramuscular vs. the "traditional" Chinese acupuncture points.  My acupuncturist actually does a combination of the two (she is sort of a sports-medicine focus and does a number of treatments).  She absolutely detests people who advertise dry needling, because, as she says, "I went to school for 8 years to learn how to do things properly and safely; these guys go to one two-week seminar and call themselves experts."

And not to derail the thread into other alternative therapies, but I also feel compelled to say that I was a total non-believer in acupuncture until a year ago -- I am a very anti-woo-woo person.  I met my therapist at the gym and made my first appointment with her thinking she was a sports-medicine-focused therapist; when she whipped out the needles I wanted to walk out but thought that would be massively rude.  So I figured, well, I'm here, can't hurt.  And wow.  I am a total believer now and go every week -- I have a permanent spine issue and a rotator cuff issue that I am avoiding, and she manages to get the specific muscles and fascia to release so I can keep working out without seizing up.
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: ixtap on September 14, 2018, 11:45:47 AM
I'd never heard of dry needling before now...

It is acupuncture without the acupuncture training -- tends to be intramuscular vs. the "traditional" Chinese acupuncture points.  My acupuncturist actually does a combination of the two (she is sort of a sports-medicine focus and does a number of treatments).  She absolutely detests people who advertise dry needling, because, as she says, "I went to school for 8 years to learn how to do things properly and safely; these guys go to one two-week seminar and call themselves experts."

And not to derail the thread into other alternative therapies, but I also feel compelled to say that I was a total non-believer in acupuncture until a year ago -- I am a very anti-woo-woo person.  I met my therapist at the gym and made my first appointment with her thinking she was a sports-medicine-focused therapist; when she whipped out the needles I wanted to walk out but thought that would be massively rude.  So I figured, well, I'm here, can't hurt.  And wow.  I am a total believer now and go every week -- I have a permanent spine issue and a rotator cuff issue that I am avoiding, and she manages to get the specific muscles and fascia to release so I can keep working out without seizing up.

My husband still isn't sold on acupuncture, but he goes every other week because he likes talking to his therapist, whom we refer to as his pain management specialist. It has been a year and he is evidently still the most tense person ever to grace the table.
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: iris lily on September 14, 2018, 02:36:13 PM
I'd never heard of dry needling before now...

It is acupuncture without the acupuncture training -- tends to be intramuscular vs. the "traditional" Chinese acupuncture points.  My acupuncturist actually does a combination of the two (she is sort of a sports-medicine focus and does a number of treatments).  She absolutely detests people who advertise dry needling, because, as she says, "I went to school for 8 years to learn how to do things properly and safely; these guys go to one two-week seminar and call themselves experts."

And not to derail the thread into other alternative therapies, but I also feel compelled to say that I was a total non-believer in acupuncture until a year ago -- I am a very anti-woo-woo person.  I met my therapist at the gym and made my first appointment with her thinking she was a sports-medicine-focused therapist; when she whipped out the needles I wanted to walk out but thought that would be massively rude.  So I figured, well, I'm here, can't hurt.  And wow.  I am a total believer now and go every week -- I have a permanent spine issue and a rotator cuff issue that I am avoiding, and she manages to get the specific muscles and fascia to release so I can keep working out without seizing up.
I have read just enough to gain a respect for acupuncture as theoretical treatment. Finding the right practitioner is probably key, as in most treatments. And having reasonsble expectations sbout what the treatment will accomplish, also important.
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: Nederstash on September 15, 2018, 07:52:33 AM
. As for what my sister is doing...... very unclear.
Wasn't she teaching spin or something?

She has yet to teach a single class.

How was she able to explain that to God? It was his plan after all.
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: Zamboni on September 15, 2018, 09:27:35 AM
To clarify: they do have a staff of two people... a "chiropractic assistant" and an office manager. They were childhood friends of my BIL and were working restaurant jobs prior to this. They are probably being paid minimum wage, zero benefits, etc. As for what my sister is doing...... very unclear.

Sounds like they can add "shitty employers" to their list of virtues.

How do their employees feel about their relatively low pay for these weird and evolving hours? Have the employees drank the Koolaid too?
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: barbaz on September 17, 2018, 12:27:41 AM
I'd never heard of dry needling before now...

It is acupuncture without the acupuncture training -- tends to be intramuscular vs. the "traditional" Chinese acupuncture points.  My acupuncturist actually does a combination of the two (she is sort of a sports-medicine focus and does a number of treatments).  She absolutely detests people who advertise dry needling, because, as she says, "I went to school for 8 years to learn how to do things properly and safely; these guys go to one two-week seminar and call themselves experts."
Acupuncture works. Funnily though, it doesn’t even matter where you put the needles. Just make sure not to stick them too deep or you risk damaging your nerves. “Traditional acupuncture points” don’t actually exist because the traditional Chinese couldn’t agree on a single “correct” way to do it. In fact it’s better to stay away from the “traditional” points because they often have nerves near them.
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: partgypsy on September 17, 2018, 11:09:17 AM
I used to lump acupuncture in with other new age treatments, but since then, have seen a few veterans who have really benefited from acupuncture. Let's just say these are not your typical "new age" treatment people, so maybe there is something to it, even if just activating one's own pain responses.
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: I'm a red panda on September 17, 2018, 11:37:40 AM

Exactly! I think the problem may be that in order to get a physical therapist to treat you, ya gotta have orders from a regular western medicine Dr.  Most people want to skip that step.

My dad was a physical therapist from the 1940’s when it was a fairly new health science degree. I trust that profession and roll my eyes at the chiros having heard a lot over decades about their quack  work.

I'm so glad I live in a state that doesn't require a PT referral.

Also, dry needling is incredible.   I've also had acupuncture and it costs 10x more and I haven't seen effects from it.
The two treatments were nothing alike. The dry needling was myofacial trigger point release, to stimulate twitch response in the muscles that were in pain. The acupuncture were placed on "meridians" away from where I actually felt pain.  So I wouldn't say it is acupuncture without acupuncture training.

That said- my Mom uses acupuncture for allergies, and it's incredible, so I wouldn't say it's a waste to do. Just that they are different things.
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: BicycleB on September 17, 2018, 12:11:39 PM
In this context, the word cadence, if we dropped all the business jargon and bullshit and instead used plain English, would simply be called "frequency". That's right folks. It's simply how frequently the meeting takes place. Fuck cadence. Seriously.

Frequency seems more apt in terms of meetings. I've always thought of cadence as referring to rhythmic motion. Just checked the definition and it seems to refer specifically to sounds. I assume the connection to motion comes from using sound to regulate motion, as in calling cadence while marching. I would accept cadence to refer to motion or sound. Cadence of meetings is hereby unacceptable :)

The use of the term Cadence, as it pertains to business meetings, is a huge pet peeve of mine.  I'm a musician.  A Cadence is a series of chords to signal the ending of a piece of music (or sometimes a phrase within a piece of music). Unless they're going to start playing the most comonly recognized, perfect cadence, at 5pm to signify the end of the work day, they can shut their pie holes about cadences.

You've found the exact reason why the cadence metaphor is used. The meetings are exactly like a series of chords to signal the ending of a piece of music, in that they're supposed to have notes from each player. The meetings do signal the end of a phrase, in that they are to signal the end of a coordinated set of work being done, concluding jointly similar to how musicians end a phrase. And like the coordinated play in a song, the work of the team is supposed to be coordinated here to achieve a harmonious satisfying single result (piece of working software, etc).

Former touring musician here, have seen/ been involved in scrums that worked wonderfully. All but one did, so far. Sad that so many bad examples are out there, though.

Sorry to digress from the acupuncture bit. How are the millionaires doing?
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: Laura33 on September 17, 2018, 12:29:14 PM

Exactly! I think the problem may be that in order to get a physical therapist to treat you, ya gotta have orders from a regular western medicine Dr.  Most people want to skip that step.

My dad was a physical therapist from the 1940’s when it was a fairly new health science degree. I trust that profession and roll my eyes at the chiros having heard a lot over decades about their quack  work.

I'm so glad I live in a state that doesn't require a PT referral.

Also, dry needling is incredible.   I've also had acupuncture and it costs 10x more and I haven't seen effects from it.
The two treatments were nothing alike. The dry needling was myofacial trigger point release, to stimulate twitch response in the muscles that were in pain. The acupuncture were placed on "meridians" away from where I actually felt pain.  So I wouldn't say it is acupuncture without acupuncture training.

That said- my Mom uses acupuncture for allergies, and it's incredible, so I wouldn't say it's a waste to do. Just that they are different things.

Right -- the "meridians" are traditional Chinese acupuncture points, which I don't really know if I believe in for all things they are touted for (although they do definitely cause some interesting physiological responses when she does them).  Because my therapist also does sports medicine, she tends to spend more of the time doing what other places call "dry needling."  So it's not that people can't do both, or that there is no good dry needling -- it's more the classic regulated/unregulated thing.  My therapist had to go through a 4-year post-grad program to be certified and allowed to practice as a licensed acupuncturist; regardless of whether I think the treatment works or not, I know that she has been well-trained in it and will do it safely.  OTOH, "dry needling" has become such a thing in the sports medicine world around here that people are taking quickie courses and offering it at local gyms, so the folks who really do know what they're doing are largely outnumbered by the rest, and it is very hard to distinguish between the two.
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: Sibley on September 17, 2018, 01:05:17 PM
Well, I'm traditionally 100% against "woo" though I usually don't say anything. However my vet suggested CBD for my cat's arthritis, and a few weeks in she's acting like she's 15 again (she's 19). So, I am willing to accept that some "woo" may work, in specific circumstances. Note: CBD seems to have an anti-inflammatory effect, possibly help with pain as well. There is definitely a lot of woo out there online, and not a lot of hard research. I don't really care how it works, my cat has been downstairs more in the last 2 weeks than she has been in the last YEAR.
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: Beard N Bones on September 27, 2018, 04:07:27 PM
Maybe this is a good moment to point out that chiropractic is the quackery version of physical therapy with no standardized education nor empirically proven benefits unless where it coincidentally happens to be exactly like physical therapy. It is however proven to occasionally land people in a wheelchair.

You seem to be mistaken and exceptionally biased @barbaz 
Here is some reading for you and anyone else that thinks chiropractic is quackery and will land you in a wheelchair.  These are just a small sampling of what's out there.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28399251 (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28399251)

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4336806/ (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4336806/)

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18204390 (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18204390)
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: runbikerun on September 28, 2018, 04:29:04 AM
Maybe this is a good moment to point out that chiropractic is the quackery version of physical therapy with no standardized education nor empirically proven benefits unless where it coincidentally happens to be exactly like physical therapy. It is however proven to occasionally land people in a wheelchair.

You seem to be mistaken and exceptionally biased @barbaz 
Here is some reading for you and anyone else that thinks chiropractic is quackery and will land you in a wheelchair.  These are just a small sampling of what's out there.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28399251 (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28399251)

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4336806/ (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4336806/)

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18204390 (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18204390)

I'm on my phone and so can't go into the detail I'd like, but I'd note that while warnings regarding the dangers of chiropractic treatment are focused on increased stroke risk among younger people, those links are a Cochrane review which doesn't mention controlling for age or indeed looking at anything except reduction of lower back pain, a study based on people aged 66 and older, and a study which found substantially different results for under 45s and over 45s.
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: runbikerun on September 28, 2018, 06:00:32 AM
And on a more direct and specific example, here's a 2007 paper from the Journal of the Royal Society of Medicine:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1905885/

The entirety of the paper's conclusions are as follows:

"Spinal manipulation, particularly when performed on the upper spine, is frequently associated with mild to moderate adverse effects. It can also result in serious complications such as vertebral artery dissection followed by stroke. Currently, the incidence of such events is not known. In the interest of patient safety we should reconsider our policy towards the routine use of spinal manipulation."

Here's the American Heart Association in 2014, warning that "most population controlled studies have found an association between CMT (cervical manipulative therapy) and VAD stroke in young patients": https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/abs/10.1161/str.0000000000000016

Here's the case which started with the British Chiropractic Association suing journalist Simon Singh for libel, and ended with every major British party pledging libel law reform and a quarter of the BCA's members coming under investigation: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Chiropractic_Association_v_Singh.


Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: marty998 on September 28, 2018, 06:34:58 AM
vertebral artery dissection

This sounds like a particularly gruesome form of medieval torture to inflict on a poor unfortunate soul.

In other news today, earlier up this thread I wrote something about scrums. Today I participated in a Scrum Of Scrums. I have no idea what the purpose of a Scrum Of Scrums is, but it did get me thinking whether I needed to radio SOS to get me out of there...
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: erutio on September 28, 2018, 08:33:35 AM
Maybe this is a good moment to point out that chiropractic is the quackery version of physical therapy with no standardized education nor empirically proven benefits unless where it coincidentally happens to be exactly like physical therapy. It is however proven to occasionally land people in a wheelchair.

You seem to be mistaken and exceptionally biased @barbaz 
Here is some reading for you and anyone else that thinks chiropractic is quackery and will land you in a wheelchair.  These are just a small sampling of what's out there.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28399251 (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28399251)

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4336806/ (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4336806/)

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18204390 (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18204390)

There are some good and some bad chiros out there, just like there are good and bad doctors, lawyers, hair stylists, etc.  And there are many people who could benefit from seeing the right chiropractor.

However, it doesn't change the fact that chiropracty as a profession is quackery and not rooted in any scientific base.   It descends from a long tradition of snake oils salesmanship, and will continue to be around as long as the placebo effects exists and the venn diagram intersection of people with painful ailments and people wanting a quick fix is not zero.
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: Linea_Norway on September 28, 2018, 12:04:03 PM
vertebral artery dissection

This sounds like a particularly gruesome form of medieval torture to inflict on a poor unfortunate soul.

In other news today, earlier up this thread I wrote something about scrums. Today I participated in a Scrum Of Scrums. I have no idea what the purpose of a Scrum Of Scrums is, but it did get me thinking whether I needed to radio SOS to get me out of there...

Scrum of scrums, been there, done that. I have been at such a meeting with only well paid supervising consultants present, not anyone who did any actual work. That is how we a consultants kept eachother busy there.
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: Beard N Bones on September 28, 2018, 01:31:29 PM

The entirety of the paper's conclusions are as follows:

"Spinal manipulation, particularly when performed on the upper spine, is frequently associated with mild to moderate adverse effects. It can also result in serious complications such as vertebral artery dissection followed by stroke. Currently, the incidence of such events is not known. In the interest of patient safety we should reconsider our policy towards the routine use of spinal manipulation."

Here's the American Heart Association in 2014, warning that "most population controlled studies have found an association between CMT (cervical manipulative therapy) and VAD stroke in young patients": https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/abs/10.1161/str.0000000000000016

Here's the case which started with the British Chiropractic Association suing journalist Simon Singh for libel, and ended with every major British party pledging libel law reform and a quarter of the BCA's members coming under investigation: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Chiropractic_Association_v_Singh.

You are right:
- There are mild/moderate side effects to SMT.  Muscle, joint ache (very often) to mild strain/sprain (not often).  Any profession who does manual therapy will have those "risks."
- An association (note they didn't claim causation) between CMT and cardiovascular events.  If you read the articles I posted, you will also notice there is also an association of those presenting to medical doctors with neck pain and headaches and cardiovascular events.  These are exceptionally rare cases - so much so that it is next to impossible to do good scientific research on it as a person needs sufficient cases to study.    But I'm sure you know that from reading the articles I hyperlinked, right @runbikerun ?

Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: Beard N Bones on September 28, 2018, 02:12:23 PM
However, it doesn't change the fact that chiropract*ic* (FTFY)  as a profession is quackery and not rooted in any scientific base.   It descends from a long tradition of snake oils salesmanship, and will continue to be around as long as the placebo effects exists and the venn diagram intersection of people with painful ailments and people wanting a quick fix is not zero.

Chiropractic is rooted in science, just as medical practice is, just as physiotherapy is, just as massage therapy is.  And just because you see chiropractic practiced in your part of the world as woooo woooo, doesn't mean the whole profession is like that.  As you said, there are good and bad doctors, lawyers, hair stylists, etc.  But just because there are bad doctors, it doesn't mean the whole profession is baseless.  And just because some lawyers are unethical, it doesn't mean that the profession is corrupt.

Chiropractic care, specifically spinal manipulative therapy, has been shown to be effective far beyond placebo for many neuromusculoskeletal problems.  (What I find really interesting, is that physiotherapists are more and more starting to use spinal manipulation with their clientele...)
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: AnnaGrowsAMustache on September 28, 2018, 03:40:18 PM
Maybe this is a good moment to point out that chiropractic is the quackery version of physical therapy with no standardized education nor empirically proven benefits unless where it coincidentally happens to be exactly like physical therapy. It is however proven to occasionally land people in a wheelchair.

You seem to be mistaken and exceptionally biased @barbaz 
Here is some reading for you and anyone else that thinks chiropractic is quackery and will land you in a wheelchair.  These are just a small sampling of what's out there.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28399251 (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28399251)

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4336806/ (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4336806/)

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18204390 (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18204390)

There are some good and some bad chiros out there, just like there are good and bad doctors, lawyers, hair stylists, etc.  And there are many people who could benefit from seeing the right chiropractor.

However, it doesn't change the fact that chiropracty as a profession is quackery and not rooted in any scientific base.   It descends from a long tradition of snake oils salesmanship, and will continue to be around as long as the placebo effects exists and the venn diagram intersection of people with painful ailments and people wanting a quick fix is not zero.

The older I get, the more I understand that you do whatever works. I don't have to care why. You don't have to care why. If someone is in chronic pain and chiro works for them, great. If homeopathy works for them, equally great. If praying to a bowl of lemons on their coffee table at 3:12 exactly every afternoon works for them, also great. What or why doesn't matter. What matters is the outcome.
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: Gronnie on September 28, 2018, 04:00:42 PM
And on a more direct and specific example, here's a 2007 paper from the Journal of the Royal Society of Medicine:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1905885/

The entirety of the paper's conclusions are as follows:

"Spinal manipulation, particularly when performed on the upper spine, is frequently associated with mild to moderate adverse effects. It can also result in serious complications such as vertebral artery dissection followed by stroke. Currently, the incidence of such events is not known. In the interest of patient safety we should reconsider our policy towards the routine use of spinal manipulation."

Here's the American Heart Association in 2014, warning that "most population controlled studies have found an association between CMT (cervical manipulative therapy) and VAD stroke in young patients": https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/abs/10.1161/str.0000000000000016

Here's the case which started with the British Chiropractic Association suing journalist Simon Singh for libel, and ended with every major British party pledging libel law reform and a quarter of the BCA's members coming under investigation: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Chiropractic_Association_v_Singh.

My cousin ended up having an artery dissection after a neck manipulation. She has had a couple of strokes since. Early 30s single mother of 2, such a sad story.
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: iris lily on September 30, 2018, 09:51:21 AM
However, it doesn't change the fact that chiropract*ic* (FTFY)  as a profession is quackery and not rooted in any scientific base.   It descends from a long tradition of snake oils salesmanship, and will continue to be around as long as the placebo effects exists and the venn diagram intersection of people with painful ailments and people wanting a quick fix is not zero.

Chiropractic is rooted in science, just as medical practice is, just as physiotherapy is, just as massage therapy is.  And just because you see chiropractic practiced in your part of the world as woooo woooo, doesn't mean the whole profession is like that.  As you said, there are good and bad doctors, lawyers, hair stylists, etc.  But just because there are bad doctors, it doesn't mean the whole profession is baseless.  And just because some lawyers are unethical, it doesn't mean that the profession is corrupt.

Chiropractic care, specifically spinal manipulative therapy, has been shown to be effective far beyond placebo for many neuromusculoskeletal problems.  (What I find really interesting, is that physiotherapists are more and more starting to use spinal manipulation with their clientele...)

In previous discussions here,
I think we learned that chiro training is different in
Canada than in U.S.  so, there may be differences i. What we experience here from treatment ya’ll provide up North.

Maybe.

The best chiro I heard about in recent years took one look at my friend’s spinal xrays and said “I am not toiching this, you need a surgeon to evaluate this.”
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: iris lily on September 30, 2018, 09:54:03 AM
And on a more direct and specific example, here's a 2007 paper from the Journal of the Royal Society of Medicine:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1905885/

The entirety of the paper's conclusions are as follows:

"Spinal manipulation, particularly when performed on the upper spine, is frequently associated with mild to moderate adverse effects. It can also result in serious complications such as vertebral artery dissection followed by stroke. Currently, the incidence of such events is not known. In the interest of patient safety we should reconsider our policy towards the routine use of spinal manipulation."

Here's the American Heart Association in 2014, warning that "most population controlled studies have found an association between CMT (cervical manipulative therapy) and VAD stroke in young patients": https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/abs/10.1161/str.0000000000000016

Here's the case which started with the British Chiropractic Association suing journalist Simon Singh for libel, and ended with every major British party pledging libel law reform and a quarter of the BCA's members coming under investigation: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Chiropractic_Association_v_Singh.

My cousin ended up having an artery dissection after a neck manipulation. She has had a couple of strokes since. Early 30s single mother of 2, such a sad story.

Tragic, indeed.
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: BTDretire on October 01, 2018, 08:41:09 AM
I'd never heard of dry needling before now...

It is acupuncture without the acupuncture training -- tends to be intramuscular vs. the "traditional" Chinese acupuncture points.  My acupuncturist actually does a combination of the two (she is sort of a sports-medicine focus and does a number of treatments).  She absolutely detests people who advertise dry needling, because, as she says, "I went to school for 8 years to learn how to do things properly and safely; these guys go to one two-week seminar and call themselves experts."

And not to derail the thread into other alternative therapies, but I also feel compelled to say that I was a total non-believer in acupuncture until a year ago -- I am a very anti-woo-woo person.  I met my therapist at the gym and made my first appointment with her thinking she was a sports-medicine-focused therapist; when she whipped out the needles I wanted to walk out but thought that would be massively rude.  So I figured, well, I'm here, can't hurt.  And wow.  I am a total believer now and go every week -- I have a permanent spine issue and a rotator cuff issue that I am avoiding, and she manages to get the specific muscles and fascia to release so I can keep working out without seizing up.
I have read just enough to gain a respect for acupuncture as theoretical treatment. Finding the right practitioner is probably key, as in most treatments. And having reasonsble expectations sbout what the treatment will accomplish, also important.
I tried an acupuncturist  for back/leg pain (two herniated discs)
I didn't find it to help. The acupuncturist connects wires to the needles and applies varying rhythmic electric pulses to the needles, on one appointment the equipment had a failure and the rhythmic pulses became continuous and didn't reduce in strength. I called out to the doc to turn it off. I ask about the equipment during the next appointment and he said he threw it out.
t
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: Spoon on December 30, 2018, 02:14:02 AM
Any chance of an end of year update? I'm hoping for an unexpected twist and the beginnings of behaviour change.
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: BTDretire on January 03, 2019, 10:58:51 AM
... and that in the meantime, they are going to "pray that God will provide." What could go wrong?

Ugh. Nothing makes me grind my teeth more than this phrase.  Good luck to them.

I might have been tempted to snarkily hypothesize that any deity that exists might think he provided via the opportunity to earn a living after finishing a degree program. Or maybe a unicorn will prance up, bearing bags of cash. Or the teller window at Bank of Dad will open for business.

  I have to think the diety is in favor of construction workers after all the people that are either left homeless or have terrible damage to their homes after hurricane Michael.
  I went into purchase a cellphone shortly after the hurricane and while waiting, I had an 82 year old man crying after telling me about the destruction to his home and how he never thought he would need to rely on his son for a place to live. I don't think a diety is there to help you with business financing.
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: BTDretire on January 03, 2019, 11:13:49 AM

The older I get, the more I understand that you do whatever works. I don't have to care why. You don't have to care why. If someone is in chronic pain and chiro works for them, great. If homeopathy works for them, equally great. If praying to a bowl of lemons on their coffee table at 3:12 exactly every afternoon works for them, also great. What or why doesn't matter. What matters is the outcome.

  That's all fine but the risk/reward ratio needs to also be considered.
If you're injured by chiropractic manipulation, or have cancer and someone treats you with homeopathy until it's to late for modern medicine to save you, you lose.
 If you are believer in alternative methods, you might want to have a real doctors opinion as a backup just in case there is a treatable problem.
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: Cassie on January 03, 2019, 12:07:43 PM
Very few people are injured by a chiropractor which is why their malpractice insurance is cheap. Most chiropractors X-ray a new patient before treating them in case something else is wrong. Most people have muscle pain/issues and chiropractic works great for these conditions.   Of course there are frauds in every profession so if one claims they can heal all your illnesses run away.
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: marty998 on January 03, 2019, 01:47:48 PM
Any chance of an end of year update? I'm hoping for an unexpected twist and the beginnings of behaviour change.

paging @frugalfoothills
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: dogboyslim on January 04, 2019, 01:36:39 PM
My experience with agile:  At my last company I had one of the warehouse programmers/data scientists come up to me and say basically this:

"At my daily scrum stand-up which is pretty much done via videoconference  and no one stands up, we identified a blocker on a 5 pointer, meaning that unless we get the product owner to escalate the resolution our velocity is going to nosedive.  So our scrum-master took the issue to the scrum of scurm meeting to see if others had a similar blocker, but it turns out that the issue is that the DB2 license is per server and the SQL license is enterprise, so the product owner that has in 3 consecutive years shot down an upgrade to the DB2 server, is now asking that we just bring in some of the other backlog items to keep the velocity up, btw, her bonus depends on our velocity, while she evaluates the CBA for a server/license upgrade, but the backlog only has like 2 tasks that have been pointed since the business hasn't prioritized the backlog.  After we figure this out, I have to explain to the CFO why the AWS bill is so high this month after the marketing department spun up a massive SQL warehouse and essentially duplicated our onsite warehouse so they could learn how to benefit from some real machine learning, even though no one there even knows the difference between a continuous and a categorical variable.  I hate my job."

Also, I'm a little surprised that no reckoning has happened with this couple, but if the family doesn't care about being repaid...so be it.
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: aetherie on January 04, 2019, 02:15:23 PM
"At my daily scrum stand-up which is pretty much done via videoconference  and no one stands up, we identified a blocker on a 5 pointer, meaning that unless we get the product owner to escalate the resolution our velocity is going to nosedive.  So our scrum-master took the issue to the scrum of scurm meeting to see if others had a similar blocker, but it turns out that the issue is that the DB2 license is per server and the SQL license is enterprise, so the product owner that has in 3 consecutive years shot down an upgrade to the DB2 server, is now asking that we just bring in some of the other backlog items to keep the velocity up, btw, her bonus depends on our velocity, while she evaluates the CBA for a server/license upgrade, but the backlog only has like 2 tasks that have been pointed since the business hasn't prioritized the backlog.  After we figure this out, I have to explain to the CFO why the AWS bill is so high this month after the marketing department spun up a massive SQL warehouse and essentially duplicated our onsite warehouse so they could learn how to benefit from some real machine learning, even though no one there even knows the difference between a continuous and a categorical variable.  I hate my job."

I hate that I understood every word of that.
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: BicycleB on January 04, 2019, 04:50:40 PM
"At my daily scrum stand-up which is pretty much done via videoconference  and no one stands up, we identified a blocker on a 5 pointer, meaning that unless we get the product owner to escalate the resolution our velocity is going to nosedive.  So our scrum-master took the issue to the scrum of scurm meeting to see if others had a similar blocker, but it turns out that the issue is that the DB2 license is per server and the SQL license is enterprise, so the product owner that has in 3 consecutive years shot down an upgrade to the DB2 server, is now asking that we just bring in some of the other backlog items to keep the velocity up, btw, her bonus depends on our velocity, while she evaluates the CBA for a server/license upgrade, but the backlog only has like 2 tasks that have been pointed since the business hasn't prioritized the backlog.  After we figure this out, I have to explain to the CFO why the AWS bill is so high this month after the marketing department spun up a massive SQL warehouse and essentially duplicated our onsite warehouse so they could learn how to benefit from some real machine learning, even though no one there even knows the difference between a continuous and a categorical variable.  I hate my job."

I hate that I understood every word of that.
@aetherie, LOL.

What I thought after reading it was, "It doesn't matter what technique you use to run a workplace badly. If you run a workplace badly, working there is going to suck."
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: Tabitha on January 05, 2019, 10:04:58 AM
... and that in the meantime, they are going to "pray that God will provide." What could go wrong?

Ugh. Nothing makes me grind my teeth more than this phrase.  Good luck to them.

Apparently she’s never heard the old saw “The Lord helps those who help themselves”. 
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: Basenji on January 05, 2019, 04:55:31 PM
Any chance of an end of year update? I'm hoping for an unexpected twist and the beginnings of behaviour change.

paging @frugalfoothills

Yeah, I love this thread and I need a hit.
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: iluvzbeach on January 05, 2019, 05:22:37 PM
IIRC, the OP responds to bat signals. @frugalfoothills
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: Gronnie on January 05, 2019, 07:21:12 PM
"At my daily scrum stand-up which is pretty much done via videoconference  and no one stands up, we identified a blocker on a 5 pointer, meaning that unless we get the product owner to escalate the resolution our velocity is going to nosedive.  So our scrum-master took the issue to the scrum of scurm meeting to see if others had a similar blocker, but it turns out that the issue is that the DB2 license is per server and the SQL license is enterprise, so the product owner that has in 3 consecutive years shot down an upgrade to the DB2 server, is now asking that we just bring in some of the other backlog items to keep the velocity up, btw, her bonus depends on our velocity, while she evaluates the CBA for a server/license upgrade, but the backlog only has like 2 tasks that have been pointed since the business hasn't prioritized the backlog.  After we figure this out, I have to explain to the CFO why the AWS bill is so high this month after the marketing department spun up a massive SQL warehouse and essentially duplicated our onsite warehouse so they could learn how to benefit from some real machine learning, even though no one there even knows the difference between a continuous and a categorical variable.  I hate my job."

I hate that I understood every word of that.

Same!
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: Dan408 on May 06, 2019, 05:57:06 AM
Bump for update
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: Parizade on May 06, 2019, 07:52:06 AM
"At my daily scrum stand-up which is pretty much done via videoconference  and no one stands up, we identified a blocker on a 5 pointer, meaning that unless we get the product owner to escalate the resolution our velocity is going to nosedive.  So our scrum-master took the issue to the scrum of scurm meeting to see if others had a similar blocker, but it turns out that the issue is that the DB2 license is per server and the SQL license is enterprise, so the product owner that has in 3 consecutive years shot down an upgrade to the DB2 server, is now asking that we just bring in some of the other backlog items to keep the velocity up, btw, her bonus depends on our velocity, while she evaluates the CBA for a server/license upgrade, but the backlog only has like 2 tasks that have been pointed since the business hasn't prioritized the backlog.  After we figure this out, I have to explain to the CFO why the AWS bill is so high this month after the marketing department spun up a massive SQL warehouse and essentially duplicated our onsite warehouse so they could learn how to benefit from some real machine learning, even though no one there even knows the difference between a continuous and a categorical variable.  I hate my job."

I hate that I understood every word of that.

Same!

I'm hoping to forget it all ASAP after FIRE
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: Kierun on June 10, 2019, 06:00:19 PM
How many millions do they have now?  Inquiring minds would like to know...
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: SheWhoWalksAtLunch on June 11, 2019, 01:16:20 PM
How many millions do they have now?  Inquiring minds would like to know...

+1 & PTF
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: marty998 on June 19, 2019, 03:43:07 PM
Sending bat signal to @frugalfoothills
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: talltexan on June 27, 2019, 11:59:13 AM
Sometimes these things actually work out. Business is booming in a lot of places right now...
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: BTDretire on July 11, 2019, 11:00:49 AM
Sending bat signal to @frugalfoothills

frugalfoothills is posting, her last post was yesterday, July 10, 2019, but I haven't located that post.
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: kingxiaodi on July 11, 2019, 02:00:35 PM
Sending bat signal to @frugalfoothills

frugalfoothills is posting, her last post was yesterday, July 10, 2019, but I haven't located that post.

Are you sure her last post was yesterday? The most recent post I could find was from March, but she was last active today (I assume she was active today after your post, so when you looked, it likely said yesterday). In fact, she appears to be "online" at this very moment!

In either case, I can only imagine that she will update the post when she is ready to do so. Even if she didn't get the batsignal, I doubt she's forgotten about this thread.
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: BTDretire on July 11, 2019, 06:42:23 PM
Sending bat signal to @frugalfoothills

frugalfoothills is posting, her last post was yesterday, July 10, 2019, but I haven't located that post.

Are you sure her last post was yesterday? The most recent post I could find was from March, but she was last active today (I assume she was active today after your post, so when you looked, it likely said yesterday). In fact, she appears to be "online" at this very moment!

In either case, I can only imagine that she will update the post when she is ready to do so. Even if she didn't get the batsignal, I doubt she's forgotten about this thread.
You are most likely correct, I interpreted active as posting.
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: oldladystache on July 11, 2019, 07:37:07 PM
She did post today, first time since March.  I've been eagerly awaiting an update to this story.
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: Just Joe on July 12, 2019, 01:49:41 PM
Let's give the thread a cooling off period and then I'd love to read everyone's fictional "final chapter". ;)
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: DaMa on July 14, 2019, 10:33:41 AM
ptf - just enjoyed reading this whole thread!
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: Cannot Wait! on July 14, 2019, 04:19:30 PM
ptf - just enjoyed reading this whole thread!

Me too!  But I thought for sure it would have come to an end by now....
I'm guessing they are doing alright; any shortfalls are being helped along by the FIL - who is THRILLED about learning that he is going to a Grandfather!!!
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: LilyFleur on July 18, 2019, 08:19:44 PM
I fell for that kind of chiropractic care. The guy did our x-rays and clearly mine was worse than my child's and so he preyed on my emotions and said that with his treatment we can avoid my kid becoming as bad as me. So we prepaid thousands of dollars and went to treatments 2-3x a week for however long. It was an assembly line. He had three tables set up with a half wall divider between, an electronic system that called your name and table number. He would spend <5 mins with each patient and send them on their way. It took a few months that I realized that it was just a sales technique and it was not so much about our health.

Now I go to a chiropractor whenever I get tightness in my lower back and I come back on my schedule. This new guy is very easy going and only if the adjustment was particularly difficult will he suggest to come back sooner than I normally would.
Whenever I get tightness in my lower back, I do the stretches my physical therapist taught me. Evidently tall women get tight hamstrings which can cause lower back pain. No chiropractor I tried ever helped me as much as my physical therapist.
Title: Re: My Soon-To-Be Millionaire Family Members
Post by: iris lily on July 20, 2019, 09:28:00 AM
ptf - just enjoyed reading this whole thread!

Me too!  But I thought for sure it would have come to an end by now....
I'm guessing they are doing alright; any shortfalls are being helped along by the FIL - who is THRILLED about learning that he is going to a Grandfather!!!

And he will buy the young couple a big new SAFE automobile because baby cannot ride in anything UNSAFE, it must be new.  And big.