However, I disagree that what needs to happen is cutting spending. If she's living in a place where $900/month is about the cheapest living situation available (short of living with family), even living on $18k/year is pretty advanced mustachianism. Jacob from ERE was living on $10k/year in today's dollars but most people, particularly non-mustachian people, are not Jacob.
I'm afraid what needs to happen is that she needs to find a single, full time job instead of several extremely part time jobs with lots of time lost to switching. In most parts of the country right now, a responsible person who can show up on time and accurately follow directions (which it sounds like your girlfriend is) should be able find a full time, not part time, job paying at least $15/hour if she puts her mind to it. A full time $15/hour job is $30k/year. The extra $1,000 a month would go a long way towards putting her on a viable financial path, as well as digging out from under $10k of credit card debt a year or two max.
Disclaimer that I know is very easy to give advice like this as someone not involved and that actual emotional effort of making such a big switch, particularly since it would likely mean putting the photography business on the back burner for a year or two, is substantial.
I agree. My "cut spending" comment was about losing her $900/month rent payment.
I think you are right about her quitting the freelance and taking a full-time job. I thought I would give her the "option" that she could do that or continue to struggle as an "artist" by living in my van or her car. Either she needs to make more money or spend less money. Math is pretty cut and dry like that.
I don't know where she is located, but living on $18k a year is going to be very hard pretty much anywhere and the only solution is to make more money. How is cutting spending really going to help when more than half her expenses are for housing. You said there aren't cheaper living options so what else can she do? You seem to be fine with that level of income but she needs to find something better. The two part time gigs, they seem like dead end jobs. They are minimal hours with not great pay. So she honestly needs to ditch them unless there is some very near term potential for the hours or pay to increase. Go back to the drawing board and find a full time job, even if it's not something she wants to be doing, even if it doesn't perfectly align with when you two can spend time together. Look for jobs in food or service which both have lots of openings in many areas and tend to be desperate for good workers. She needs to start bringing in more money now so she can get her finances under control.
Gig work and part time work should be supplemental to help develop the skills/items which she hopes to make more money from in the future. But trying to build a business without without any savings it going to be very tough. She needs to bite the bullet, get a higher paying job for now and then once she has some savings, then she can start exploring a transition back to something that's more aligned with her career goals.
Good advise. I think she knows this. But it's hard to be the one who has to remind her of this.
From previous statements, you have a long distance relationship and plan to get married, but have no experience living together because of religious convictions. It sounds like neither of you want her to work on the weekend because it'll ruin the time you do have together.
Perhaps the first step is for her to move closer to where you live. I assume your job is more difficult to relocate, but she doesn't seem to have anything tying her down since her work is remote and freelancing. Could she find a place to live that'll cost no more than $900/month in your town? Or share a place with a roommate, since this is intended to be temporary until you two get married? Then there won't be any excuse not to work full time and pay off her debt, plus more time with the two of you together.
True. The only issue with this is I have to be the one to tell her that the 10 years she has spent building her local photography business and the 2 years of social media management/content-creation aren't worth much. I have to tell her that moving closer to me and taking any minimum wage job will be more successful than everything she has worked towards.
I can't figure out what you are getting at here. 18k is not enough for most people to live on and, whether she is incapable of working full time or simply doesn't want to is a distinction without a difference unless she actually takes a full time job. My point about the "stress" is that it is MORE stressful to worry about paying bills than whether one's schedule fits with their long distance boyfriend's schedule. Did you discourage her from working weekend hours? You say she would be doing fine if she was married to you - are you fine with supporting someone who cannot support themselves financially?
I personally would want my spouse to not be financially dependent on me. But I can't tell what your position is.
I feel like this situation was very common 100 years ago. Less so today. I don't like the stress of being the only breadwinner. Also, it may or may not have an effect I what I get to do with my career. I have wanted to run my own global missional business for a while now, but anything entrepreneurial like that has a lot of risk. The fear associated with that risk has never been a deterrent for me, but if kids and a wife are also counting on me that is a lot more risk.
On the flip side, I have a doubt that I can raise children the way I would like to with the public school system today. So homeschooling or partial homeschooling is a very likely possibility. I don't know if it is possible to home-school children with two parents working full time, but if anyone has experience with this please chime in. In the event that she is a stay-at-home mom who has some side hustles, maybe that is better than nothing.
I think what's missing here is that you are unclear about how serious this relationship is.
Are you very close to wanting to marry her? Are you okay with financially supporting her??
I know folks here are saying to walk away, but that's useless advice if you are intent on marrying her and have no problem with supporting her.
It's absolutely fine if that's what both of you want and you have talked thoroughly through it. If that's the case, then the question is, how close are you to actually getting married?
How long of a runway does she have to manage this debt before the next steps happen?
If you two are very close to getting married and you are okay with financially supporting her, have you thoroughly talked about financial expectations?
You call her "antimustachian," does that mean you don't respect her financial values? How will that play out in marriage? If you are the primary bread winner, are you going to expect to be the primary financial decision maker? Is she okay with that? Will you give her spending money? Will she have to earn her own? What happens is she racks up more debt while you are married?
Have you talked through all of this yet?
We are discussing marriage. A lack of financial stewardship is the biggest hurdle to that right now.
I don't know how close marriage is. The whole thing stresses me out.
What do you mean by financial expectations?
She has said she can "stick to a budget" but a lot of people say that but then add caveats. I.e. I can stick to a budget, but I can't get rid of Spotify, or I still need to have an iPhone and unlimited data, and a nice car so it doesn't break down so I'm not late to work, and live in the nice part of town, and it's not practical to ride my bike to work, it won't save that much. And I need to have my hair and makeup done with the other girls cause I'm in the wedding... etc.
She wasn't taught any financial skills. I believe she is learning. She is okay with me being the decision-maker. I think to think we would have a joint account and she can use it the same as me. I believe there would be an understanding of what she can spend on and what I things I would need to lend my decision over. We haven't discussed these topics directly. If she racks up more dedt when we are married I get upset.
Here are some key things:
- Don't take too much time coming up with a company or brand. Do NOT get business cards or anything else. I wouldn't even make a one-page website. Those are all distractions. What she needs is new income as soon as possible.
I have said things along these lines before but my point falls on deaf ears to a degree. "That's not what the podcasters say". And they know more than me. She used to do wedding photography shoots for a net wash because she didn't have all the equipment she felt she needed so she would rent extra lenses, flashes, and camera bodies for a second shooter. Then a lot of the money she got paid went to the equipment rental company. But that was the equipment that the professionals had so that was what she wanted. She tries to do an A+ job on everything she does, which she does, but something two or three times as many B+ jobs make you a lot more money.
- Give them a sweet, painless way to get started. But then charge reasonable rates. The easiest way to do this is say, "I'll create a month's worth of content and post it for you on a pre-determined scheduled so you can see how it goes. The first month is free. If you like what I do, then each month after that would be $XXX (slightly below market rates) to continue. You gotta get the fish on the hook.
- Make damn sure that you deliver the best results possible during that trial month
- Come back just before the month is over. Very briefly review results and try to tie them to how it can generate revenue and new clients for the business. Have 2-3 really good ideas of new content. Give them two options: Continue with the same content at the previously mentioned price OR bump up to new & improved option at a 40% increase that includes even better content.
- Continue pitching other potential clients as soon as you find them. Have multiple clients at different points in the process.
- Eventually have enough clients to go back to her current gig employer and say, "I'm in business for myself now. My rate is $XXX/month for what I've been doing. Would love to keep working with you at this rate or I'll have to invest my time in my other clients who are paying more.
- Stay in the same industry and re-use ideas and content so that you're not starting over from scratch every month. That's why you choose clients in different market areas.
Also, you might look into adding her as an authorized user (but without access to the card/numbers) on one of your cards if she needs to build her credit more quickly. It's a no-risk way to help her improve her credit score so she can eventually use the low interest balance transfers to keep her payments as low as possible. See the "Selling Tradelines" thread for why this works.
I will check out the selling tradelines thread
All god advice, but not I suspect for OP's perfectionist arty girl friend who has considerable insecurities, no time management skills and no business skills (ie not able to portion her time according to monetary value or ensure clients pay what they owe on a timely basis). Those skills can be learnt but probably not under the financial pressure this woman is currently under.
She needs a well-paid full-time job and a side-hustle. If she did that she could get herself out from under this debt within the year, and a further 6 months would give her enough of a nest-egg to finance moving near OP. Then they can start planning a future together that includes joint lives and finances. With the security of OP's good mustachian habits and emotional support, and a sound financial basis behind her, then the possibilities for her doing well at using her talents to create viable businesses open up.
Agreed.
What was the 10K spent on? You mention that she is insecure about looking unattractive or poor so I'm guessing (?) that a lot was on clothes/personal care and social outings. There's a difference between overspending on camera equipment thinking that your new business will work out and going out for drinks in a new dress when you make 18K and have 10K debt.
Unless you're willing to marry and support her now she needs to either move home or get a full-time nanny job. Preferable both.
I don't know. I know most of it was reasonable. I.e. groceries, mechanic bills, etc. Some were on unnecessary items "I'm in a tons of debt what difference does it make." I think that is a defeatist attitude or a quitter mindset, which I really dislike. If you are gonna fail you still gotta finish the race and salvage what you can. I think this might be connected to the perfectionist trait.
It sounds as though this woman has really painted herself into a corner and is refusing every possible option that could result in her solving the problem she created. Every individual decision, in isolation, seems potentially reasonable. But taken together it's a basic refusal to support herself coupled with a willingness to impose on others. At the age of 19 I could potentially excuse bad decision making on the grounds of immaturity, but I can't excuse it at age 29. She's simply not willing to make compromises if it results in something that's not fun.
She won't work full-time, and chose to not work full-time for so long that she ran up a monster debt. She jumped into a "business" she didn't know how to run and chose not to get the training, education, or skills necessary to run it even after she realized she was in over her head. She continued to lose money for a long time and elected not to get a day job to cover her living expenses. The only reason she isn't continuing this financially self-destructive course of action is because she ran out of credit. She won't work more hours by taking a job that pays more. She won't move in with her long-term boyfriend because Religion, although she doesn't feel the need to follow that religion's injunctions to engage in economically productive activities, to manage money well, to keep the commitments she makes (as in, repay what she borrows) or to avoid debt. She also won't move in with her parents. But somehow it's fpjeepy's duty to be the one to make the sacrifice? Yeah, right.
That dynamic just doesn't bode well, long-term.
I keep thinking about the bankruptcy option being brought up. Not sure whether OP thought of it himself or his gf did. But either way. The thing is, declaring bankruptcy over a $10,000 debt is madness. As others have said, gf could wipe that out fairly quickly by getting a better-paying full-time job and tightening her belt.
But the other thing is, when I see people looking to turn to bankruptcy as an easier out than changing their situation, my strong gut feeling is that they are looking for a fix that will allow them to mostly continue on with the way they have been doing things, status quo. OP, if you are floating that idea with her, you are not doing her or you or the relationship any favors. And if she is floating the idea, that should probably be a sign that she is not willing to make any changes to her lack of discipline, and that down the road you will likely be facing a similar situation with her again.
If you are okay with supporting/putting up with that, it’s your decision, your life. But recognize that this problem is not really about $10,000 of debt. It’s about something larger and more fundamental.
I floated the idea of bankruptcy. It seemed like a get-out-a-jail-free card. I don't know how it works. I just know she has no assets so they couldn't take anything from her. She wouldn't be able to borrow any money, except from me so I could be more involved in what she is spending money on.
Not saying you should split up, that's your call.
I AM saying you should not solve her financial problems. Hard stop.
She needs to grow up. You solving her problems will not allow her the satisfaction of learning how to behave like a responsible adult.
My brother's GF refused to marry him as long as he had debt, including any possible engagement ring. He worked his ass off to pay everything off and pay cash for a ring. They've been married nearly twenty-five years. They are spendier than many mustachians, but their finances are rock-solid.
I appreciate the advice. I actually came here more for technical guidance, not relationship advice. I want to get her card off the high interest she is paying now. I know nothing about debt consolidation, but ideally, I would to find a company that will pay off the credit cards so I can chop them up. Then she can get a lower (hopefully) interest rate and pay one company monthly until she clears things. Is that not how debt consolidation works? Does the government subsidize the lower interest rate if you can prove that you don't make enough money? Are there any programs that help? I feel like I see commercials all the time for it. Or is it best if she tries to bounce around on the introductory offer balance transfer thing?
