Author Topic: Most friends and family have no money and less common sense.  (Read 24006 times)

Kat57

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 25
Most friends and family have no money and less common sense.
« on: January 23, 2016, 06:33:27 PM »
Okay, I know I am not alone in finding other people somewhat ridiculous financally.

Examples...

My SIL on fixed Social Security income in subsidized senior apartment announcing that she was going to start spending $80 monthly on vet manicures for her cat. Not nail trimming, oh no, actual rubber claw caps that must be replaced monthly.  It took everything in me to keep my face neutral at this insanity.  Then she told me that ine of the attractions of doing this was the ability to paint then like real fingernails!

OR

My 74 year old friend explained that she or her husband have never been able to save ANY money for retirement because whenever they went and tried to sign up for 401k at their work, THEY WANTED MONEY FOR THAT so they didnt do it.  I was speechless when she expressed her indignation at them trying to rip her off this way...

Sometimes I feel very hopeless about the money skills of America. 

You guys here are the only ones who seem to get it about finances and saving.

JAYSLOL

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1252
Re: Most friends and family have no money and less common sense.
« Reply #1 on: January 23, 2016, 06:52:16 PM »
Okay, I know I am not alone in finding other people somewhat ridiculous financally.

Examples...

My SIL on fixed Social Security income in subsidized senior apartment announcing that she was going to start spending $80 monthly on vet manicures for her cat. Not nail trimming, oh no, actual rubber claw caps that must be replaced monthly.  It took everything in me to keep my face neutral at this insanity.  Then she told me that ine of the attractions of doing this was the ability to paint then like real fingernails!

OR

My 74 year old friend explained that she or her husband have never been able to save ANY money for retirement because whenever they went and tried to sign up for 401k at their work, THEY WANTED MONEY FOR THAT so they didnt do it.  I was speechless when she expressed her indignation at them trying to rip her off this way...

Sometimes I feel very hopeless about the money skills of America. 

You guys here are the only ones who seem to get it about finances and saving.


THEY WANTED MONEY FOR THAT!  @$%&!  I'm sorry, I CAN'T STOP laughing at that!

I wish i had an employer retirement program they want my money for..

Indexer

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1430
Re: Most friends and family have no money and less common sense.
« Reply #2 on: January 24, 2016, 06:13:04 AM »
Wow!  They wanted money for that.  LOL!

I don't have anything to top that, but I did find out recently that a family member was contributing 2% to their 401k, match is 5%, but they contribute 4% to united way.  I'm for supporting charities but unless your retirement plan involves living in a homeless shelter supported by the charity you need to get your priorities in order.

GrOW

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 273
    • Gringing Out Wealth
Re: Most friends and family have no money and less common sense.
« Reply #3 on: January 24, 2016, 06:45:26 AM »
"They wanted money for that" has to make the Hall of Fame for Ridiculous Money Statements, if one existed. I will remember that one for a long time.

yodella

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 60
  • Location: US
Re: Most friends and family have no money and less common sense.
« Reply #4 on: January 24, 2016, 07:07:45 AM »


My SIL on fixed Social Security income in subsidized senior apartment announcing that she was going to start spending $80 monthly on vet manicures for her cat. Not nail trimming, oh no, actual rubber claw caps that must be replaced monthly.  It took everything in me to keep my face neutral at this insanity.  Then she told me that ine of the attractions of doing this was the ability to paint then like real fingernails!



My husband and I actually put these rubber claw caps on our cats on ourselves. It's not very difficult, though I'm sure that depends somewhat on the cat in question. We do it because they have a tendency to scratch furniture, so the caps prevent any real destruction. $80 is ridiculous though. Pass along to your SIL that she can buy her own claw cap kit on Amazon for ~$15. Most come with 20 caps which will last at least two months (if only covering the front paws, which for us was all that was necessary). Also you can tell her that they come in a wide selection of colors. No need for nailpolish!

Kat57

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 25
Re: Most friends and family have no money and less common sense.
« Reply #5 on: January 24, 2016, 11:54:04 AM »
Mea Culpa, in advance, for my extremely judgemental comments below...

Dear Lord, the cat manicure is probably the single most ridiculous use of money I have EVER heard. Only in America is this stupidity rampant. Cats have claws.  God made them that way.  If you dont want to train your cat, get a dog instead. I have had cats my entire life and never gad any difficulty teaching them that they should not use furniture for a scratching post.  A little vinegar (or any citris) and water applied to the attractive areas, when dry, cannot be smelled by you, but your cat is deeply offended and will stay away.

That people in this country are so detached from reality, that they are spending money on cat manicures completely explains why Americans are so terminally broke!

Okay, (stepping down off my soapbox) I am calmer now.  But really, if your cats toenails are an issue, you need a dog because you are not a cat person. Not that theres anything wrong with that.

nobodyspecial

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1469
  • Location: Land above the land of the free
Re: Most friends and family have no money and less common sense.
« Reply #6 on: January 24, 2016, 02:24:54 PM »
that they are spending money on cat manicures completely explains why Americans are so terminally broke!
But not why cat pedicurists aren't rich !

bobechs

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1068
Re: Most friends and family have no money and less common sense.
« Reply #7 on: January 24, 2016, 02:44:40 PM »

But not why cat pedicurists aren't rich !

This ^

But I heard Obama is planning on changing that, in a surprise move right at the end of his term.

nobodyspecial

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1469
  • Location: Land above the land of the free
Re: Most friends and family have no money and less common sense.
« Reply #8 on: January 24, 2016, 02:58:38 PM »
But I heard Obama is planning on changing that, in a surprise move right at the end of his term.
I understand that promising "a chicken in every pot and nail extension on every pet"  was Hoover's original speech before Ford's lobbyists got to him

Kat57

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 25
Re: Most friends and family have no money and less common sense.
« Reply #9 on: January 24, 2016, 08:11:53 PM »
I do not know if being frugal has made me hypervigilant, but I seem to see more stupidity than usual.  I have perfected my neutral expression to avoid exploding in laughter when certain situations present themselves.

Example

Person requests ride to go buy smokes at gas station. I do not smoke, but okay, I am already here. On the way, she holds up a water bottle that she got for $30.  This is a plastic insulated cup affair. But although $30 would be average for say, my sons indestructible stainless Clean Canteen, that can survive anything, this is not that kind of bottle. Purely cosmetic.  Worse, her husband works corporate agriculture and they do not have a reliable vehicle. She is an opiod popping nightmare that has run up 6k of DUI debt for him to pay off.  Yet, here she is buying smokes and sucking on a $30 water bottle. 

I have a very hard mustering up any sympathy for people who think it is okay to throw away money and then complain about poverty.  Really, I gag a little when I hear complaints from folks like this.

Jakejake

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 720
  • FIRE: June 17, 2016
Re: Most friends and family have no money and less common sense.
« Reply #10 on: January 24, 2016, 08:20:22 PM »
Since we're on a cat roll, I feel I need to counter it with a mouse story. My sister has already destroyed one house, causing her to take a huge loss when she sold it. Now she has a new house, which is often on the brink of foreclosure. I suggested they turn the guest room into an airbnb thing or take in a renter, but she can't - because she has spilled toxic lye all over it in a less-than-minimum-wage soap making venture. She didn't make enough money from that to pay to fix the damage she caused to the room.

Now her latest thing is that she's rescued a mouse. I don't mean she caught an indoor mouse in a humane trap and set it free outside. She caught an OUTDOOR mouse, and brought it into her house because it's cold outside. It now lives as a free range mouse in her home. She puts out food for it, and made a little felt bed thing for it under her dresser.

If all she did was buy cat manicures, I'd feel pretty good about that!

TheGrimSqueaker

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2201
  • Location: A desert wasteland, where none but the weird survive
  • www.theliveinlandlord.com
Re: Most friends and family have no money and less common sense.
« Reply #11 on: January 24, 2016, 09:00:50 PM »
Since we're on a cat roll, I feel I need to counter it with a mouse story. My sister has already destroyed one house, causing her to take a huge loss when she sold it. Now she has a new house, which is often on the brink of foreclosure. I suggested they turn the guest room into an airbnb thing or take in a renter, but she can't - because she has spilled toxic lye all over it in a less-than-minimum-wage soap making venture. She didn't make enough money from that to pay to fix the damage she caused to the room.

Now her latest thing is that she's rescued a mouse. I don't mean she caught an indoor mouse in a humane trap and set it free outside. She caught an OUTDOOR mouse, and brought it into her house because it's cold outside. It now lives as a free range mouse in her home. She puts out food for it, and made a little felt bed thing for it under her dresser.

If all she did was buy cat manicures, I'd feel pretty good about that!

How does anybody "destroy" a house and still be able to sell it?

JAYSLOL

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1252
Re: Most friends and family have no money and less common sense.
« Reply #12 on: January 24, 2016, 10:01:43 PM »

How does anybody "destroy" a house and still be able to sell it?


If it's in a city or town in my province it really doesn't matter what condition the house is in it's still usually worth $200 - $300k or more (or like a $million or 2 if in Vancouver).  It's fucked up.  And that mouse story too. 

SwordGuy

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 6027
  • Location: Fayetteville, NC
Re: Most friends and family have no money and less common sense.
« Reply #13 on: January 24, 2016, 10:21:10 PM »
How does anybody "destroy" a house and still be able to sell it?

Cheaply.

To real estate investors like me! :)

Kat57

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 25
Re: Most friends and family have no money and less common sense.
« Reply #14 on: January 25, 2016, 09:55:00 AM »
The mouse story is a little scarey.  But I predict that very soon, her lonely single mouse will be joined by many other mice and she will realize that she screwed up another house.  You should tell her, as she is your beloved, if looney sister, that mice carry HANTAVIRUS pulmonary disease.  Contact with rodent urine or feces, evn small mouse feces, in 1-5 weeks incubation can start with fatigue, muscle aches, headaches, dizziness, chills, nausea.  Then the REAL fun begins as coughing and shortness of breath happen as your lungs fill with fluid.

HANTAVIRUS is fatal 38% of the time.

Presumably she has not house trained her mouse.  No, it doesnt count if she put a barbie house toilet under the dresser. Mice are notorious for not washing their hands before returning to work.

Or she might make the news with a case of bubonic plague, or maybe one of the other diseases that are well known in the rodent population.


I'm a red panda

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 8010
  • Location: United States
Re: Most friends and family have no money and less common sense.
« Reply #15 on: January 25, 2016, 09:57:50 AM »

Dear Lord, the cat manicure is probably the single most ridiculous use of money I have EVER heard.

Caps are generally the humane alternative to declawing (and why most people get them, not really a "manicure" to paint the cats nails).  So thank goodness she'd rather paint the cat's nails than do that. That is just torture for human convenience.
« Last Edit: January 25, 2016, 01:33:10 PM by iowajes »

Hunny156

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 461
Re: Most friends and family have no money and less common sense.
« Reply #16 on: January 25, 2016, 12:45:56 PM »
My 74 year old friend explained that she or her husband have never been able to save ANY money for retirement because whenever they went and tried to sign up for 401k at their work, THEY WANTED MONEY FOR THAT so they didnt do it.  I was speechless when she expressed her indignation at them trying to rip her off this way...

Sigh.  My last employer actually had a plan where after the 1st year, they would contribute 2.5% of your pay into a fully vested retirement account.  The "catch" was that you had to sign up for a retirement account, even if you chose to get the employee contribution at 0%.  Soo many people lost this free money b/c they didn't understand, or didn't have the time to set up the account.  Account setup process was all done online, took maybe 10 minutes.  I suspect this 74 year old friend of yours would have a problem with this plan too!

justajane

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2147
  • Location: Midwest
Re: Most friends and family have no money and less common sense.
« Reply #17 on: January 25, 2016, 01:29:57 PM »
That is just torture for human convenience.

And also why I and many others will never have a cat again once my current one passes away of old age. I wonder if there is a correlation between the decreasing acceptance of front claw removal and increased need for euthanasia of cats in shelters? There may not be, but while I don't want to be cruel to a living creature, I have had cats with front claws in the past and it was a royal pain in the ass. Never again.
« Last Edit: January 25, 2016, 01:31:59 PM by justajane »

La Bibliotecaria Feroz

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 4681
Re: Most friends and family have no money and less common sense.
« Reply #18 on: January 25, 2016, 03:28:44 PM »
That is just torture for human convenience.

And also why I and many others will never have a cat again once my current one passes away of old age. I wonder if there is a correlation between the decreasing acceptance of front claw removal and increased need for euthanasia of cats in shelters? There may not be, but while I don't want to be cruel to a living creature, I have had cats with front claws in the past and it was a royal pain in the ass. Never again.

Our cat has her claws and has never been a problem. She was a year old when we adopted her and always uses her scratching post. It's like a $60 scratching post, but probably cheaper than declawing!

Jakejake

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 720
  • FIRE: June 17, 2016
Re: Most friends and family have no money and less common sense.
« Reply #19 on: January 25, 2016, 04:17:17 PM »
How does anybody "destroy" a house and still be able to sell it?
By attempting a plumbing job upstairs without turning off the water, when all the interior walls are beaver board.

You should tell her, as she is your beloved, if looney sister, that mice carry HANTAVIRUS pulmonary disease.  Contact with rodent urine or feces, evn small mouse feces, in 1-5 weeks incubation can start with fatigue, muscle aches, headaches, dizziness, chills, nausea.  Then the REAL fun begins as coughing and shortness of breath happen as your lungs fill with fluid.

HANTAVIRUS is fatal 38% of the time.

We had a talk about the virus. She "did the research" already, and concluded that the risk in the Northeast is negligible.  I don't even know where to begin - the entire scenario of wanting a wild animal peeing and leaving feces in my house is so foreign to me I can't find a foothold for the discussion.

Uturn

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 673
  • Age: 49
  • Location: Holly Springs, NC
Re: Most friends and family have no money and less common sense.
« Reply #20 on: January 25, 2016, 04:30:42 PM »
I've had cats all my life.  A squirt bottle with water is a great teacher.  None of my cats have clawed the furniture or climbed on the kitchen counters.   It takes about a week or two to get a cat trained. 

Tom Bri

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 654
  • Location: Small Town, Flyover Country
  • More just cheap, than Mustachian
Re: Most friends and family have no money and less common sense.
« Reply #21 on: January 25, 2016, 06:01:11 PM »

Now her latest thing is that she's rescued a mouse. I don't mean she caught an indoor mouse in a humane trap and set it free outside. She caught an OUTDOOR mouse, and brought it into her house because it's cold outside. It now lives as a free range mouse in her home. She puts out food for it, and made a little felt bed thing for it under her dresser.

If all she did was buy cat manicures, I'd feel pretty good about that!
Mice are incredibly cute. Last winter I had a family move in with the firewood. They were completely naive about humans and didn't understand how dangerous we are. If I sat still for just a few minutes, out they would come, investigating the room, even wandering right up to me as I sat reading. So, I killed them. Sad, but what else can you do?
Since she isn't going to kill the mouse, she should turn it into a money making venture with a web cam, some youtube videos and a dedicated mouse website. Honestly, they are so cute I bet she could get good traffic and actually make some money.

Kat57

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 25
Re: Most friends and family have no money and less common sense.
« Reply #22 on: January 25, 2016, 08:16:13 PM »
If mice moved in, I would certainly serve up a tasty gourmet helping of d-con.  Vermin is not cute. It is dangerous and filthy and carries disease to humans.  The very idea of 'hosting' mice inside your house may seem cute at first. But when your 'family' infests and takes over your property, you will understand we call them vermin and hire exterminators to rid a property of the danger. 

Please keep us posted on your cute mouse family situation. We could use the entertainment.  This is going to be good!

pbkmaine

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 8366
  • Age: 63
  • Location: The Villages, Florida
Re: Most friends and family have no money and less common sense.
« Reply #23 on: January 25, 2016, 08:21:16 PM »
Does not happen in this house. Our cats think they are the Best Toys Ever. Then they bite the heads off.

nobodyspecial

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1469
  • Location: Land above the land of the free
Re: Most friends and family have no money and less common sense.
« Reply #24 on: January 25, 2016, 08:25:44 PM »
Vermin is not cute. It is dangerous and filthy and carries disease to humans.  The very idea of 'hosting' mice inside your house may seem cute at first. But when your 'family' infests and takes over your property, you will understand we call them vermin and hire exterminators to rid a property of the danger. 
I feel pretty much the same about children

Jschange

  • Guest
Re: Most friends and family have no money and less common sense.
« Reply #25 on: January 25, 2016, 08:57:16 PM »
If the sister was under 20 and storing her feral mouse in a cage, it would be a sweet story about risking hantavirus. But this is crazy

I feel bad for the mice, so I load up on deterrents, then live trap, and only snap trap when I have to. Like this current invasion.

MgoSam

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3643
  • Location: Minnesota
Re: Most friends and family have no money and less common sense.
« Reply #26 on: January 26, 2016, 06:54:14 AM »
The "catch" was that you had to sign up for a retirement account, even if you chose to get the employee contribution at 0%.  Soo many people lost this free money b/c they didn't understand, or didn't have the time to set up the account.  Account setup process was all done online, took maybe 10 minutes.  I suspect this 74 year old friend of yours would have a problem with this plan too!

It's true what they say, that you can take a horse to water....

What frustrates me about situation like this aren't that they are offered, I'm glad that they are, but rather that the people that miss out on opportunities like these (2.5% free money?) don't shrug and say, "Aww shucks, I should have paid attention to HR," it's that they instead they act like the aggrieved party, as if they are some sort of victim.

misshathaway

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 390
  • Age: 62
  • Location: Massachusetts
Re: Most friends and family have no money and less common sense.
« Reply #27 on: January 26, 2016, 07:31:14 AM »
And the millenials' version of cat manicures:

http://www.boredpanda.com/floating-bonsai-trees-air-hoshinchu/

Yours for $200 but $1000 will get you a better one.

turketron

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 462
  • Age: 33
  • Location: WI
Re: Most friends and family have no money and less common sense.
« Reply #28 on: January 26, 2016, 07:43:26 AM »
re: cat claws- I rented an apartment with my brother that allowed cats but only if they were declawed. My brother refused to declaw his cat but the management company accepted the plastic caps as a suitable alternative. They're stupid, yes, but better than getting the cat declawed.

MandalayVA

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1575
  • Location: Orlando FL
Re: Most friends and family have no money and less common sense.
« Reply #29 on: January 26, 2016, 07:59:31 AM »
Our newest cat is the first clawed one Mr. Mandalay and I have had.  He has a scratching post and some pads, which he does use, but he's taken a liking to our three living room chairs.  Two of them have fairly sturdy fabric and therefore can stand up to Poe claws.  The other one, however, is probably going to have to get the vinegar treatment.  As for the counters, I just wipe them down before doing anything.  Keeping cats off counters is a battle I know I can't win, alas.

snacky

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 9738
  • Location: Hoth
  • Forum Dignitary
Re: Most friends and family have no money and less common sense.
« Reply #30 on: January 26, 2016, 08:09:13 AM »

Our cat has her claws and has never been a problem. She was a year old when we adopted her and always uses her scratching post. It's like a $60 scratching post, but probably cheaper than declawing!

I nailed a normal 2x4 to the wall in my cat's preferred scratching area, and rubbed it with catnip. now she uses it all the time. if you ever need to replace your scratching post, try a hunk of wood first.

your username made me think you might appreciate the tip.

rockstache

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 5868
  • Age: 2015
  • Location: Northeast
Re: Most friends and family have no money and less common sense.
« Reply #31 on: January 26, 2016, 08:11:40 AM »
I have never had a cat and probably never will.

Having said that, can someone please tell me (nicely), why declawing is such an unacceptable practice? I understand if you were ever going to let it outside (no self-defense), or if you were going to put it through the procedure without putting it to sleep, that would be inhumane. Otherwise, what does this do to the cat that is harmful? Are they forever in pain after that? And do the people who advocate against this feel the same about having it neutered/spayed, or dogs having tails/ears clipped? As Justajane said, this is a huge consideration to some people for adopting a cat, and I wonder if it is better to have it done and be adopted (a la spay/neuter), or languish in the shelter and possibly be euthanized.

Please do not try to talk me out of doing it, or tell me I am a terrible person for considering it because I AM NOT ADOPTING A CAT OR CURRENTLY THINKING ABOUT IT. This is just a general question.

Racer X

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 51
Re: Most friends and family have no money and less common sense.
« Reply #32 on: January 26, 2016, 08:26:11 AM »
I have never had a cat and probably never will.

Having said that, can someone please tell me (nicely), why declawing is such an unacceptable practice? I understand if you were ever going to let it outside (no self-defense), or if you were going to put it through the procedure without putting it to sleep, that would be inhumane. Otherwise, what does this do to the cat that is harmful? Are they forever in pain after that? And do the people who advocate against this feel the same about having it neutered/spayed, or dogs having tails/ears clipped? As Justajane said, this is a huge consideration to some people for adopting a cat, and I wonder if it is better to have it done and be adopted (a la spay/neuter), or languish in the shelter and possibly be euthanized.

Please do not try to talk me out of doing it, or tell me I am a terrible person for considering it because I AM NOT ADOPTING A CAT OR CURRENTLY THINKING ABOUT IT. This is just a general question.

People say it equates to an amputation of the finger tip.  It's a surgery and the cat definitely has a healing period for a few weeks were the paws are tender.

Adventine

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1270
  • Age: 30
  • Location: Manila, Philippines
Re: Most friends and family have no money and less common sense.
« Reply #33 on: January 26, 2016, 08:27:04 AM »
And the millenials' version of cat manicures:

http://www.boredpanda.com/floating-bonsai-trees-air-hoshinchu/

Yours for $200 but $1000 will get you a better one.

I'd never buy a floating bonsai tree, but I can appreciate how cool it looks.

La Bibliotecaria Feroz

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 4681
Re: Most friends and family have no money and less common sense.
« Reply #34 on: January 26, 2016, 08:29:44 AM »
I have never had a cat and probably never will.

Having said that, can someone please tell me (nicely), why declawing is such an unacceptable practice? I understand if you were ever going to let it outside (no self-defense), or if you were going to put it through the procedure without putting it to sleep, that would be inhumane. Otherwise, what does this do to the cat that is harmful? Are they forever in pain after that? And do the people who advocate against this feel the same about having it neutered/spayed, or dogs having tails/ears clipped? As Justajane said, this is a huge consideration to some people for adopting a cat, and I wonder if it is better to have it done and be adopted (a la spay/neuter), or languish in the shelter and possibly be euthanized.

Please do not try to talk me out of doing it, or tell me I am a terrible person for considering it because I AM NOT ADOPTING A CAT OR CURRENTLY THINKING ABOUT IT. This is just a general question.
'
From what I understand, it's like having your fingers cut off at the first knuckle. It also leaves the cat without their primary means of defense, and some of them become biters. I'm not saying it's a "never," especially if the other option is euthanasia, but it just shouldn't be your first thought. Like I said, it was very easy to post-train our cat, and I think people should try that first.

No, I don't feel that way about spaying. Trying to keep an indoor cat that's not spayed sounds like a major ewwww to me, and unkind to the animal.

justajane

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2147
  • Location: Midwest
Re: Most friends and family have no money and less common sense.
« Reply #35 on: January 26, 2016, 08:37:18 AM »
I was being somewhat disingenuous when I said this would factor into my decision to not have another cat. I don't ever want a cat again because I'm done having cats. Three kids is enough. Having said that, the current climate regarding declawing just confirms my decision.

The main reason people are against it is because #1 it is a form of partial amputation. It's not just the claws that get taken but a portion of the bone itself and #2 if done improperly it can cause lifelong pain. I personally have never seen a cat with lifelong pain from it, though, so I'm not sure how common this is.

I have noticed my older, declawed cat does hobble quite a bit. It's hard to know if his arthritis was exacerbated by the declawing.

I can grant that it should be a last resort, while still admitting that I don't have the energy or inclination to constantly train a cat not to scratch things or to only scratch one thing. After all, this is wired instinct we are talking about here. I think anti-declawers need to be comfortable with the idea that less cats will get adopted and more cats might be sent back to the shelter and possibly euthanized. It's just an unfortunate reality.

I do think it's interesting that spaying and neutering isn't equally maligned or at least questioned. Of course it has a more demonstrable benefit in that it keeps the population lower. In hindsight, our cat didn't really need to be castrated (I mean neutered), since he has never escaped and would have never procreated. But we did it anyway.

This is just a (semi-controversial) aside, but I've also wondered if people who are so adamantly against declawing at least have reservations about circumcision. I know there are some peripheral health benefits of the latter procedure, but the same argument against circumcision (namely that most of Europe doesn't do it because it is considered mutilation) is used in anti-declawing rhetoric.

Magilla

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 83
Re: Most friends and family have no money and less common sense.
« Reply #36 on: January 26, 2016, 09:45:36 AM »
This is just a (semi-controversial) aside, but I've also wondered if people who are so adamantly against declawing at least have reservations about circumcision. I know there are some peripheral health benefits of the latter procedure, but the same argument against circumcision (namely that most of Europe doesn't do it because it is considered mutilation) is used in anti-declawing rhetoric.

Yes circumcision is a barbaric and pointless practice with no health or other benefits.

mm1970

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 7024
Re: Most friends and family have no money and less common sense.
« Reply #37 on: January 26, 2016, 11:07:44 AM »
This is just a (semi-controversial) aside, but I've also wondered if people who are so adamantly against declawing at least have reservations about circumcision. I know there are some peripheral health benefits of the latter procedure, but the same argument against circumcision (namely that most of Europe doesn't do it because it is considered mutilation) is used in anti-declawing rhetoric.

Yes circumcision is a barbaric and pointless practice with no health or other benefits.
I've always wondered about some of the opinions related to circ.  I have friends who are incredibly anti-vaccination because of the permanent damage you could be doing to your children, yet they run off to have their boys circ'd without question.

(Not to start a crazy debate here, I have two boys, one intact and one circ'd.  The circ'd one was born with moderate hypospadias that had to be corrected, and circ was part of the surgery.)

MountainFlower

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 278
  • Location: Colorado Mountains
Re: Most friends and family have no money and less common sense.
« Reply #38 on: January 26, 2016, 11:09:46 AM »
Our newest cat is the first clawed one Mr. Mandalay and I have had.  He has a scratching post and some pads, which he does use, but he's taken a liking to our three living room chairs.  Two of them have fairly sturdy fabric and therefore can stand up to Poe claws.  The other one, however, is probably going to have to get the vinegar treatment.  As for the counters, I just wipe them down before doing anything.  Keeping cats off counters is a battle I know I can't win, alas.

Get something called "sticky paws" to put on your furniture.  It is a double-sided tape and it will stop them.  Trust me, over time, the cats will destroy your chairs no matter how sturdy the fabric is. 

Also, keeping cats off counters is a winnable battle, don't give up!  Keep a spray bottle near your counters and spray them every time they go up.  They will stop.  It's worth it.   Even just seeing the spray bottle sitting there will eventually deter them.  I LOVE cats but I don't want them on my counters...ever!  They can share my pillow though.  :-)

MandalayVA

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1575
  • Location: Orlando FL
Re: Most friends and family have no money and less common sense.
« Reply #39 on: January 26, 2016, 11:23:43 AM »
Our newest cat is the first clawed one Mr. Mandalay and I have had.  He has a scratching post and some pads, which he does use, but he's taken a liking to our three living room chairs.  Two of them have fairly sturdy fabric and therefore can stand up to Poe claws.  The other one, however, is probably going to have to get the vinegar treatment.  As for the counters, I just wipe them down before doing anything.  Keeping cats off counters is a battle I know I can't win, alas.

Get something called "sticky paws" to put on your furniture.  It is a double-sided tape and it will stop them.  Trust me, over time, the cats will destroy your chairs no matter how sturdy the fabric is. 

Also, keeping cats off counters is a winnable battle, don't give up!  Keep a spray bottle near your counters and spray them every time they go up.  They will stop.  It's worth it.   Even just seeing the spray bottle sitting there will eventually deter them.  I LOVE cats but I don't want them on my counters...ever!  They can share my pillow though.  :-)

Unless I can figure out a way to rig spray bottles to go off automatically when he gets up there it's not happening due to ... you know, my full-time job.  :D  The only counter he and his predecessors hit is the island in the kitchen, and I don't prepare food on it.  Wiping my work counter down is no big deal.  I am considering the Sticky Paws, though.

La Bibliotecaria Feroz

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 4681
Re: Most friends and family have no money and less common sense.
« Reply #40 on: January 26, 2016, 12:13:18 PM »
This is just a (semi-controversial) aside, but I've also wondered if people who are so adamantly against declawing at least have reservations about circumcision. I know there are some peripheral health benefits of the latter procedure, but the same argument against circumcision (namely that most of Europe doesn't do it because it is considered mutilation) is used in anti-declawing rhetoric.

Yes circumcision is a barbaric and pointless practice with no health or other benefits.

Well, there's evidence of some moderate health benefits, and more if you live in Africa, but not enough to convince me to have my children permanently altered. I guess I'm consistent--my cat is not declawed and my two boys are not circumcised. (They are, however, vaccinated.)

Kitsune

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1849
Re: Most friends and family have no money and less common sense.
« Reply #41 on: January 26, 2016, 12:46:53 PM »
This is just a (semi-controversial) aside, but I've also wondered if people who are so adamantly against declawing at least have reservations about circumcision. I know there are some peripheral health benefits of the latter procedure, but the same argument against circumcision (namely that most of Europe doesn't do it because it is considered mutilation) is used in anti-declawing rhetoric.

Yes circumcision is a barbaric and pointless practice with no health or other benefits.

Well, there's evidence of some moderate health benefits, and more if you live in Africa, but not enough to convince me to have my children permanently altered. I guess I'm consistent--my cat is not declawed and my two boys are not circumcised. (They are, however, vaccinated.)

Not quite as many health benefits as using a condom, which they should be doing anyway, so one hopes that's kind of a moot point.

Magilla

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 83
Re: Most friends and family have no money and less common sense.
« Reply #42 on: January 26, 2016, 03:09:31 PM »
This is just a (semi-controversial) aside, but I've also wondered if people who are so adamantly against declawing at least have reservations about circumcision. I know there are some peripheral health benefits of the latter procedure, but the same argument against circumcision (namely that most of Europe doesn't do it because it is considered mutilation) is used in anti-declawing rhetoric.

Yes circumcision is a barbaric and pointless practice with no health or other benefits.

Well, there's evidence of some moderate health benefits, and more if you live in Africa, but not enough to convince me to have my children permanently altered. I guess I'm consistent--my cat is not declawed and my two boys are not circumcised. (They are, however, vaccinated.)

Most if not all the "studies" that found "evidence" have been proven to be shoddily run and poor medical science.  It's a bit like saying that people touching their face spreads disease thus there is a benefit to cutting people's arms off.

NoraLenderbee

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1255
Re: Most friends and family have no money and less common sense.
« Reply #43 on: January 26, 2016, 05:07:57 PM »
This is just a (semi-controversial) aside, but I've also wondered if people who are so adamantly against declawing at least have reservations about circumcision. I know there are some peripheral health benefits of the latter procedure, but the same argument against circumcision (namely that most of Europe doesn't do it because it is considered mutilation) is used in anti-declawing rhetoric.

Yes circumcision is a barbaric and pointless practice with no health or other benefits.

Well, there's evidence of some moderate health benefits, and more if you live in Africa, but not enough to convince me to have my children permanently altered. I guess I'm consistent--my cat is not declawed and my two boys are not circumcised. (They are, however, vaccinated.)

Most if not all the "studies" that found "evidence" have been proven to be shoddily run and poor medical science.  It's a bit like saying that people touching their face spreads disease thus there is a benefit to cutting people's arms off.

Which brings us back to why you shouldn't declaw cats.

Kat57

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 25
Re: Most friends and family have no money and less common sense.
« Reply #44 on: January 26, 2016, 06:37:51 PM »
Not all men are okay without circumcision. My husband said that there were two men he knew in the navy that had to have the procedure done as an adult. Not at all fun.  He said that afterward, they were given a can of spray cold to stop any erection before the stitches break. He said these guys would start yellng and drop trou right there and spray cold themselves.  He was ADAMANT that our son be circumcsed as an infant so he would never risk going thru this awful thing as an adult. 


Kat57

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 25
Re: Most friends and family have no money and less common sense.
« Reply #45 on: January 26, 2016, 06:46:20 PM »
But back on track, what totally foolish money issues are going on around you? 

Someone I know drives herself home, then calls the ambulance to take her to the emergency room because she doesnt want to wait in line. People in ambulances get seen immediately. In my town, you can buy ambulance insurance for $50 yearly so you are covered if you need it. But somehow, the convenience call is extreme. What if someone REALLY needs it and this person is using it to avoid the wait time.


zephyr911

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3628
  • Age: 41
  • Location: Northern Alabama
  • I'm just happy to be here. \m/ ^_^ \m/
    • Pinhook Development LLC
Re: Most friends and family have no money and less common sense.
« Reply #46 on: January 26, 2016, 07:46:56 PM »
I've always wondered about some of the opinions related to circ.  I have friends who are incredibly anti-vaccination because of the permanent damage you could be doing to your children, yet they run off to have their boys circ'd without question.
Your friends don't much sound like critical thinkers.

nobodyspecial

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1469
  • Location: Land above the land of the free
Re: Most friends and family have no money and less common sense.
« Reply #47 on: January 26, 2016, 08:40:08 PM »
Not all men are okay without circumcision. My husband said that there were two men he knew in the navy that had to have the procedure done as an adult. Not at all fun.  He said that afterward, they were given a can of spray cold to stop any erection before the stitches break. He said these guys would start yellng and drop trou right there and spray cold themselves.  He was ADAMANT that our son be circumcsed as an infant so he would never risk going thru this awful thing as an adult.
Alternatively he could avoid joining the navy, IF he has to have the procedure as an adult and he finds the presence of sailors causes spontaneous erections 

La Bibliotecaria Feroz

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 4681
Re: Most friends and family have no money and less common sense.
« Reply #48 on: January 26, 2016, 08:58:46 PM »
Not all men are okay without circumcision. My husband said that there were two men he knew in the navy that had to have the procedure done as an adult. Not at all fun.  He said that afterward, they were given a can of spray cold to stop any erection before the stitches break. He said these guys would start yellng and drop trou right there and spray cold themselves.  He was ADAMANT that our son be circumcsed as an infant so he would never risk going thru this awful thing as an adult.
Alternatively he could avoid joining the navy, IF he has to have the procedure as an adult and he finds the presence of sailors causes spontaneous erections

Evidently circumcision was just gaining popularity among Christians during World War II and many sailors opted for voluntary circumcision because it came with three days of bed rest.

Kat57

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 25
Re: Most friends and family have no money and less common sense.
« Reply #49 on: January 26, 2016, 09:53:21 PM »
Yes, some of my friends are hilariously ridiculous in their behavior. All humans are hysterically funny if you get to know them well.  I also have friends who are smart about money, some who are ywell off, some who are downright wealthy, some who are frugal and responsible and some who dont even pay their taxes.  People are a mixed bag. You just gotta love them where they are.  But do not miss the comedy, that is half the fun!