Author Topic: Money saving techniques? Yeah right!  (Read 11681 times)

f504457

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Money saving techniques? Yeah right!
« on: July 27, 2013, 08:22:04 PM »
I've been reading quite a few threads about how people can save money here and there by slowly reducing their expenditures (cutting off $70 cable for $10 Netflix, keeping your car for an extra year etc.) but I've noticed that these same people don't mention real money saving techniques! It's kind of rage inducing when people only give you partial money saving techniques. You could cut your entire cable bill simply by torrenting TV shows and movies! Sure you don't get it as it airs, but you do get it within the week! This could save $70 a month (or $10 a month for Netflix)! You could also ditch Microsoft and go for Linux and save $100 for the software and $400 for the office suite. Or if you absolutely need Windows, you could torrent it as well.

I overheard (over the course of 3 weeks) two different conversations. One saying they were failing classes and that they were going to have to add more to their student loans, and the other that said 'in order to avoid loosing money, I'm going to cheat on my next exam'. Seriously, that's the kind of advice that should be given! Finding different ways to save a lot of money, instead of small techniques like 'stop the AC during the night, you don't need it' or 'cut down on cell phone bills'. Those save you very little in the long run. I am aware that it will, over time, add up, but you could concentrate on bigger fishes and save up a lot more money.

All this being, I don't like hypocrites. Quit telling us 'it's easy!' when you're not giving us the full story. Their either hypocrites or just ignorant, either way, this is sad.

plantingourpennies

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Re: Money saving techniques? Yeah right!
« Reply #1 on: July 27, 2013, 08:35:30 PM »

Honest Abe

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Re: Money saving techniques? Yeah right!
« Reply #2 on: July 27, 2013, 08:39:31 PM »
I guess high school/college is on break.

f504457

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Re: Money saving techniques? Yeah right!
« Reply #3 on: July 27, 2013, 08:45:11 PM »
This is more of a rant, and not an attempt at trolling. I hate how so many people can criticize others and say 'this is easy' or criticizing how others live their lives without taking a solid look in the mirror. You can exaggerate all your want and small expenditures here, and get rid of this etc. but to me, this is all a huge hypocritical view of finance. There are many here who criticize that they don't try hard enough to save up enough money because it's not what 'they' are doing. They may already be trying some cut backs, but it's not 'enough'. It's sad how many people mock others for their hard work, when they, themselves, are not putting all that much effort either. The point of my previous comment was to show you just how drastic you could go in saving money. Why are they not doing it either?

Sorry if I come off as a little trollish, my English isn't up to par.

Micheal

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Re: Money saving techniques? Yeah right!
« Reply #4 on: July 27, 2013, 10:37:38 PM »
This is more of a rant, and not an attempt at trolling. I hate how so many people can criticize others and say 'this is easy' or criticizing how others live their lives without taking a solid look in the mirror.

Well heres the mirror, you are on it, we take our licks and dish em out too.  The point is to save %50 or better of your income, so that when you have enough income from investments to equal or better your expenses you "retire".  Between my wife and I we make about 1400 a month after taxes, out of that we save 650 so about 50% income saved a month (this is going to pay off student loans for my wife).  We have done this by ditching cable, turning off the A/C and heat when it is not needed, turning off the lights, getting off  the expensive cell phone plan and going pre-paid, walking and biking to work instead of driving, owning solid used car outright and having liability only insurance on it, and meal planning and smart food sourcing for price and quality.  The idea is to boost your savings so that means cutting the fat elsewhere, the whole point of this site is to get you to see where that fat is.  The money saving tips are here and they work, but for each person the tips are different because each situation is unique, instead of just ranting how about posting your real life expenses and asking for advice for your specific situation and taking that advice.

Jamesqf

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Re: Money saving techniques? Yeah right!
« Reply #5 on: July 27, 2013, 11:46:54 PM »
You could cut your entire cable bill simply by torrenting TV shows and movies!

Or you could learn to enjoy reading books instead :-)

Quote
You could also ditch Microsoft and go for Linux and save $100 for the software and $400 for the office suite.

Forget the money, it's the time & aggravation I've saved (not to mention making a pretty decent living programming in a Linux environment.)  Though I never ditched Windoze: last Microsoft OS I bought was DOS.

lisahi

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Re: Money saving techniques? Yeah right!
« Reply #6 on: July 28, 2013, 08:27:22 PM »
Torrenting TV shows and movies is illegal.

Cheating on college exams will get you kicked out of school.

The end.

KingMe

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Re: Money saving techniques? Yeah right!
« Reply #7 on: July 29, 2013, 05:16:21 AM »
Torrenting TV shows and movies is illegal.

Cheating on college exams will get you kicked out of school.

The end.

Not the end.  The second one is highly immoral while the first doesn't really tell me about a person's character. Another way of looking at it, I'd hate to live in a world where cheating on exams is somewhat accepted behavior but torrenting marks you for life as cheat. I've cheated before and regretted it forever. I've never done torrents, but it's not because I would think I was a bad person.

SaveALLTheThings

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Re: Money saving techniques? Yeah right!
« Reply #8 on: July 29, 2013, 10:02:21 AM »
Giving people advice to save money by doing things that are legally or morally ambiguous is pretty irresponsible.  We could tell people to cut 10% off the grocery bill by stealing 10% of the food they acquire from the supermarket, but we don't.  Comparing food to digital piracy is apples to oranges, but the controversial nature of piracy means it's better to stay away from it anyway.  In the unlikely event you get sued by Viacom, we don't want fingers pointing our way.

BlueMR2

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Re: Money saving techniques? Yeah right!
« Reply #9 on: July 29, 2013, 10:20:26 AM »
It is easy, and that is the full story.

It's about picking what's truly important to you, doing that as cheap as possible, and completely dropping the rest.

anastrophe

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Re: Money saving techniques? Yeah right!
« Reply #10 on: July 29, 2013, 10:50:51 AM »
Sorry if I come off as a little trollish, my English isn't up to par.

It's not your English, it's your ideas.

It is easy, and that is the full story.

It's about picking what's truly important to you, doing that as cheap as possible, and completely dropping the rest.

This is all you need. And I am sure there are many Linux users here.

kyleaaa

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Re: Money saving techniques? Yeah right!
« Reply #11 on: July 29, 2013, 12:32:13 PM »
Yeah, but torrenting is both illegal and immoral. It is not okay to retire early partially by stealing another's hard work. Pay for your entertainment and computer software like everybody else.

lisahi

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Re: Money saving techniques? Yeah right!
« Reply #12 on: July 29, 2013, 02:32:49 PM »
Torrenting TV shows and movies is illegal.

Cheating on college exams will get you kicked out of school.

The end.

Not the end.  The second one is highly immoral while the first doesn't really tell me about a person's character. Another way of looking at it, I'd hate to live in a world where cheating on exams is somewhat accepted behavior but torrenting marks you for life as cheat. I've cheated before and regretted it forever. I've never done torrents, but it's not because I would think I was a bad person.

Well, you missed my point. The OP wants people here to give out the advice to torrent TV shows and movies which, you know, is illegal. It doesn't matter if you find it morally ambiguous or think it's a-ok because so many people do it so, come on, it's okay, it's still illegal.

Nobody said anything about who is a "bad person." I'm talking about what advice is sound advice. I don't consider telling somebody to break the law to save money sound advice.

(But, since this topic was brought up, stealing a movie via digial download is absolutely the same thing as stealing a physical item from a brick and mortar store. Doing it in the comfort of your own home doesn't make it morally okay or ambiguous).

spider1204

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Re: Money saving techniques? Yeah right!
« Reply #13 on: July 29, 2013, 02:42:14 PM »
Quote
Nobody said anything about who is a "bad person." I'm talking about what advice is sound advice. I don't consider telling somebody to break the law to save money sound advice.

I don't totally agree with this, and will readily advise people to look move into tiny houses even if the local laws forbid it, try out stealth camping, go dumpster diving, and plenty of other illegal but not immoral by my standards activities.

Albert

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Re: Money saving techniques? Yeah right!
« Reply #14 on: July 29, 2013, 03:15:40 PM »
Not the end.  The second one is highly immoral while the first doesn't really tell me about a person's character. Another way of looking at it, I'd hate to live in a world where cheating on exams is somewhat accepted behavior but torrenting marks you for life as cheat. I've cheated before and regretted it forever. I've never done torrents, but it's not because I would think I was a bad person.

This is funny. Cheating on exams was a fully developed "form or art" where I grew up. Some teachers/professors made it very difficult, others couldn't care less...

mpbaker22

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Re: Money saving techniques? Yeah right!
« Reply #15 on: July 29, 2013, 04:18:44 PM »
Quote
Nobody said anything about who is a "bad person." I'm talking about what advice is sound advice. I don't consider telling somebody to break the law to save money sound advice.

I don't totally agree with this, and will readily advise people to look move into tiny houses even if the local laws forbid it, try out stealth camping, go dumpster diving, and plenty of other illegal but not immoral by my standards activities.

Yes, there are some things that I really don't think should be illegal.  Stealth camping is one of those.  If you don't leave any signs of your camp, there is no reason to make stealth camping illegal.

spider1204

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Re: Money saving techniques? Yeah right!
« Reply #16 on: July 29, 2013, 05:48:07 PM »
Quote
Nobody said anything about who is a "bad person." I'm talking about what advice is sound advice. I don't consider telling somebody to break the law to save money sound advice.

I don't totally agree with this, and will readily advise people to look move into tiny houses even if the local laws forbid it, try out stealth camping, go dumpster diving, and plenty of other illegal but not immoral by my standards activities.

Yes, there are some things that I really don't think should be illegal.  Stealth camping is one of those.  If you don't leave any signs of your camp, there is no reason to make stealth camping illegal.

And because I don't think it should be legal, I will continue to break that law whenever I deem the risk/reward to be appropriate, and will encourage others to do the same.

Undecided

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Re: Money saving techniques? Yeah right!
« Reply #17 on: July 29, 2013, 08:18:33 PM »
Quote
Nobody said anything about who is a "bad person." I'm talking about what advice is sound advice. I don't consider telling somebody to break the law to save money sound advice.

I don't totally agree with this, and will readily advise people to look move into tiny houses even if the local laws forbid it, try out stealth camping, go dumpster diving, and plenty of other illegal but not immoral by my standards activities.

Yes, there are some things that I really don't think should be illegal.  Stealth camping is one of those.  If you don't leave any signs of your camp, there is no reason to make stealth camping illegal.

And because I don't think it should be legal, I will continue to break that law whenever I deem the risk/reward to be appropriate, and will encourage others to do the same.

If you live in a totalitarian society, I'm all for your freedom to decide which laws should and shouldn't apply to you. I'm not sure Kentucky qualifies, though.

mpbaker22

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Re: Money saving techniques? Yeah right!
« Reply #18 on: July 29, 2013, 08:24:40 PM »
If you live in a totalitarian society, I'm all for your freedom to decide which laws should and shouldn't apply to you. I'm not sure Kentucky qualifies, though.

I think more importantly, the level of transgression with the action has to be compared to the benefit and loss of the transgression against the law.
For example, a good stealth camper will gain a sleeping place for the night and will not detract at all from the land.  In this case, the law was really only needed to keep the jerks who will litter and steal firewood off the land.

Another of my favorite activities is UrbEx.  Technically, this is oftentimes trespassing and illegal.  However, following the motto, Take only Pictures: Leave only footprints, the property owner loses nothing and the UrbExer gains incredibly experiences and beautiful pictures.

kyleaaa

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Re: Money saving techniques? Yeah right!
« Reply #19 on: July 29, 2013, 08:48:25 PM »
.

Another of my favorite activities is UrbEx.  Technically, this is oftentimes trespassing and illegal.  However, following the motto, Take only Pictures: Leave only footprints, the property owner loses nothing and the UrbExer gains incredibly experiences and beautiful pictures.

That's not true. The property owner is subjected to significant legal liability EVEN IF you swear you would never sue anybody. Just because this liability only pops up once in a million times makes it no less real. I would be royally pissed if somebody trespassed on my property, abandoned or not, and rightly so.

Undecided

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Re: Money saving techniques? Yeah right!
« Reply #20 on: July 29, 2013, 09:10:02 PM »
If you live in a totalitarian society, I'm all for your freedom to decide which laws should and shouldn't apply to you. I'm not sure Kentucky qualifies, though.

I think more importantly, the level of transgression with the action has to be compared to the benefit and loss of the transgression against the law.
For example, a good stealth camper will gain a sleeping place for the night and will not detract at all from the land.  In this case, the law was really only needed to keep the jerks who will litter and steal firewood off the land.

Oh, you didn't tell me that you were one of the good guys to whom the law shouldn't apply. Maybe the law should be rewritten to be that bad stealth camping is illegal. That will work, as long as the bad campers self-identify.

spider1204

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Re: Money saving techniques? Yeah right!
« Reply #21 on: July 29, 2013, 09:25:00 PM »
If you live in a totalitarian society, I'm all for your freedom to decide which laws should and shouldn't apply to you. I'm not sure Kentucky qualifies, though.

I think more importantly, the level of transgression with the action has to be compared to the benefit and loss of the transgression against the law.
For example, a good stealth camper will gain a sleeping place for the night and will not detract at all from the land.  In this case, the law was really only needed to keep the jerks who will litter and steal firewood off the land.

Oh, you didn't tell me that you were one of the good guys to whom the law shouldn't apply. Maybe the law should be rewritten to be that bad stealth camping is illegal. That will work, as long as the bad campers self-identify.

They kind of do self-identity by doing said things like littering and stealing firewood, then the cops can go ahead and prosecute them.  However, every time I've been caught and am pleasant and it becomes obvious to them that I'm not a nuisance they usually either let me stay until the morning or just ask me to please move along.

Do you guys really approach the law as an unbreakable contract or are you just arguing about the specific issue's we're bring up.  Never jaywalk across the street?  Drive above the speed limit?  Or any of these?
« Last Edit: July 29, 2013, 09:29:36 PM by spider1204 »

makincaid

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Re: Money saving techniques? Yeah right!
« Reply #22 on: July 30, 2013, 04:48:39 AM »
Stealth camping is illegal? I thought it was legal as long as there was not a no trespassing sign.

EMP

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Re: Money saving techniques? Yeah right!
« Reply #23 on: July 30, 2013, 05:44:56 AM »
If you live in a totalitarian society, I'm all for your freedom to decide which laws should and shouldn't apply to you. I'm not sure Kentucky qualifies, though.

I think more importantly, the level of transgression with the action has to be compared to the benefit and loss of the transgression against the law.
For example, a good stealth camper will gain a sleeping place for the night and will not detract at all from the land.  In this case, the law was really only needed to keep the jerks who will litter and steal firewood off the land.

Oh, you didn't tell me that you were one of the good guys to whom the law shouldn't apply. Maybe the law should be rewritten to be that bad stealth camping is illegal. That will work, as long as the bad campers self-identify.

They kind of do self-identity by doing said things like littering and stealing firewood, then the cops can go ahead and prosecute them.  However, every time I've been caught and am pleasant and it becomes obvious to them that I'm not a nuisance they usually either let me stay until the morning or just ask me to please move along.

Do you guys really approach the law as an unbreakable contract or are you just arguing about the specific issue's we're bring up.  Never jaywalk across the street?  Drive above the speed limit?  Or any of these?

We get too many trespassers around hunting season for me to even have a sense of humor about this.

lisahi

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Re: Money saving techniques? Yeah right!
« Reply #24 on: July 30, 2013, 09:13:41 AM »
Regardless of the illegal activity, I don't think it's a great idea to advise folks to do something illegal. I certainly don't advise people to jaywalk. I've seen people get ticketed for jaywalking in Seattle. Just because there are certain laws you think are dumb doesn't mean they don't exist or carry consequences. To me, "advice" should be something that has a risk absent of monetary fines, court costs or time in jail. At the very least, if you're going advise somebody to do something that could place a mark on their criminal record, also advise them of the maximum possible penalty for the activity because that could ultimately make the activity not worth it for that person.

For example, if you're unlucky enough to be made an example of if you torrent you could be paying massive fines or recieve jail time. Not all that mustachian of a penalty, really.

spider1204

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Re: Money saving techniques? Yeah right!
« Reply #25 on: July 30, 2013, 09:44:40 AM »
Regardless of the illegal activity, I don't think it's a great idea to advise folks to do something illegal. I certainly don't advise people to jaywalk. I've seen people get ticketed for jaywalking in Seattle. Just because there are certain laws you think are dumb doesn't mean they don't exist or carry consequences. To me, "advice" should be something that has a risk absent of monetary fines, court costs or time in jail. At the very least, if you're going advise somebody to do something that could place a mark on their criminal record, also advise them of the maximum possible penalty for the activity because that could ultimately make the activity not worth it for that person.

For example, if you're unlucky enough to be made an example of if you torrent you could be paying massive fines or recieve jail time. Not all that mustachian of a penalty, really.

Oh yes, absolutely, but all advice carries risk and I don't see legal risk as any different than other forms of risk, sure the penalties can be worse but they are still just a risk to try and mitigate.  When discussing things like stealth camping in your van with folks we always talk about the potential legal ramifications, the risk of being prosecuted, the risk of being caught.  I would never act as if the law was not there or advise others to do the same.

Undecided

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Re: Money saving techniques? Yeah right!
« Reply #26 on: July 30, 2013, 10:01:07 AM »

Do you guys really approach the law as an unbreakable contract or are you just arguing about the specific issue's we're bring up.  Never jaywalk across the street?  Drive above the speed limit?  Or any of these?

No, but I think there's a difference between situational non-observance, on one hand, and advising others to disregard the law or thinking that it's really only for others, on the other. Hubris starts somewhere, right?

spider1204

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Re: Money saving techniques? Yeah right!
« Reply #27 on: July 30, 2013, 10:43:09 AM »

Do you guys really approach the law as an unbreakable contract or are you just arguing about the specific issue's we're bring up.  Never jaywalk across the street?  Drive above the speed limit?  Or any of these?

No, but I think there's a difference between situational non-observance, on one hand, and advising others to disregard the law or thinking that it's really only for others, on the other. Hubris starts somewhere, right?

I think this is a great point, but those two ideas are kind of incompatible.  If I decide that it's ok for me to break law A in situation B, then I must also be willing to advise others to break law A in situation B, otherwise I'm acting as if the law really only applies to others.
« Last Edit: July 30, 2013, 10:44:54 AM by spider1204 »

Undecided

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Re: Money saving techniques? Yeah right!
« Reply #28 on: July 30, 2013, 10:57:28 AM »

Do you guys really approach the law as an unbreakable contract or are you just arguing about the specific issue's we're bring up.  Never jaywalk across the street?  Drive above the speed limit?  Or any of these?

No, but I think there's a difference between situational non-observance, on one hand, and advising others to disregard the law or thinking that it's really only for others, on the other. Hubris starts somewhere, right?

I think this is a great point, but those two ideas are kind of incompatible.  If I decide that it's ok for me to break law A in situation B, then I must also be willing to advise others to break law A in situation B, otherwise I'm acting as if the law really only applies to others.

Not really, although you may be acknowledging that it's for others to make the determination for themselves. In any case, by "advising others to disregard the law," I meant "in unspecified circumstances or as a general matter, such as on the basis of the minimal context or information afforded by an off-the-cuff Internet posting."

kms

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Re: Money saving techniques? Yeah right!
« Reply #29 on: July 31, 2013, 07:24:25 AM »
[..] You could cut your entire cable bill simply by torrenting TV shows and movies! [...] Or if you absolutely need Windows, you could torrent it as well.
Man that's brilliant... I wish I would've though of this earlier. How about these amazing money saving techniques:

You can save up to 100% of your groceries by simply stealing from children or old people at the supermarket. Or you could simply steal your food right away from the supermarket.
You can drive a free car by stealing one that's been parked carelessly on the street. I mean really, who parks their car on the street if they don't want it to get stolen?
Your gas bill can be reduced to US $0 by simply stealing fuel at the gas station!
You can eat out for free by not paying and climbing out the bathroom window after you've had your meal.
Why pay for electricity or natural gas? Steal your neighbor's, I'm sure he won't mind.
Computers can be obtained for free by stealing the ones from public libraries. Laptops can be obtained for free by beating up helpless college students and taking away their laptops.

Seriously, if you're being serious you're about as dumb as a tube of toothpaste. If not you're an idiot.

mpbaker22

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Re: Money saving techniques? Yeah right!
« Reply #30 on: July 31, 2013, 08:20:23 AM »

Do you guys really approach the law as an unbreakable contract or are you just arguing about the specific issue's we're bring up.  Never jaywalk across the street?  Drive above the speed limit?  Or any of these?

No, but I think there's a difference between situational non-observance, on one hand, and advising others to disregard the law or thinking that it's really only for others, on the other. Hubris starts somewhere, right?

I think this is a great point, but those two ideas are kind of incompatible.  If I decide that it's ok for me to break law A in situation B, then I must also be willing to advise others to break law A in situation B, otherwise I'm acting as if the law really only applies to others.

I think there are a great number of laws that ought to be broken.  And of that set, I break a relatively small number of them.

That's not true. The property owner is subjected to significant legal liability EVEN IF you swear you would never sue anybody. Just because this liability only pops up once in a million times makes it no less real. I would be royally pissed if somebody trespassed on my property, abandoned or not, and rightly so.
Not the legality, but when someone leaves their property wide open to the public, refuses to make repairs, and it starts to collapse even though it's one of the most historic buildings in a city, they've lost the right to whine about liability.

spider1204

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Re: Money saving techniques? Yeah right!
« Reply #31 on: July 31, 2013, 09:29:05 AM »

Do you guys really approach the law as an unbreakable contract or are you just arguing about the specific issue's we're bring up.  Never jaywalk across the street?  Drive above the speed limit?  Or any of these?

No, but I think there's a difference between situational non-observance, on one hand, and advising others to disregard the law or thinking that it's really only for others, on the other. Hubris starts somewhere, right?

I think this is a great point, but those two ideas are kind of incompatible.  If I decide that it's ok for me to break law A in situation B, then I must also be willing to advise others to break law A in situation B, otherwise I'm acting as if the law really only applies to others.

Not really, although you may be acknowledging that it's for others to make the determination for themselves. In any case, by "advising others to disregard the law," I meant "in unspecified circumstances or as a general matter, such as on the basis of the minimal context or information afforded by an off-the-cuff Internet posting."

Yes, absolutely, when I talk about advising I mean more in the sense of two friends discussing possibilities rather than the kind of relationship a lawyer might have with a client.

GuitarStv

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Re: Money saving techniques? Yeah right!
« Reply #32 on: July 31, 2013, 10:19:19 AM »
If you live in a totalitarian society, I'm all for your freedom to decide which laws should and shouldn't apply to you. I'm not sure Kentucky qualifies, though.

I think more importantly, the level of transgression with the action has to be compared to the benefit and loss of the transgression against the law.
For example, a good stealth camper will gain a sleeping place for the night and will not detract at all from the land.  In this case, the law was really only needed to keep the jerks who will litter and steal firewood off the land.

Another of my favorite activities is UrbEx.  Technically, this is oftentimes trespassing and illegal.  However, following the motto, Take only Pictures: Leave only footprints, the property owner loses nothing and the UrbExer gains incredibly experiences and beautiful pictures.

To play devil's advocate for a second here . . .


If you're torrenting movies and television that you would otherwise not watch, or would rent from the library, there is no real loss to the content provider and the downloader can enjoy some entertainment.  One could argue that the law is only there to keep jerks who try to sell bootleg media from profiting.

jp

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Re: Money saving techniques? Yeah right!
« Reply #33 on: July 31, 2013, 12:02:00 PM »
I slept in my car for longer than 4 hours at the rest stop. 

And yet, I feel ok with my decision.

mpbaker22

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Re: Money saving techniques? Yeah right!
« Reply #34 on: July 31, 2013, 05:42:32 PM »
If you live in a totalitarian society, I'm all for your freedom to decide which laws should and shouldn't apply to you. I'm not sure Kentucky qualifies, though.

I think more importantly, the level of transgression with the action has to be compared to the benefit and loss of the transgression against the law.
For example, a good stealth camper will gain a sleeping place for the night and will not detract at all from the land.  In this case, the law was really only needed to keep the jerks who will litter and steal firewood off the land.

Another of my favorite activities is UrbEx.  Technically, this is oftentimes trespassing and illegal.  However, following the motto, Take only Pictures: Leave only footprints, the property owner loses nothing and the UrbExer gains incredibly experiences and beautiful pictures.

To play devil's advocate for a second here . . .


If you're torrenting movies and television that you would otherwise not watch, or would rent from the library, there is no real loss to the content provider and the downloader can enjoy some entertainment.  One could argue that the law is only there to keep jerks who try to sell bootleg media from profiting.

I think a better comparison to torrenting materials you otherwise would not watch is stealth camping on a property that is clearly marked with no trespassing signs.  That's something I would not do.

dragoncar

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Re: Money saving techniques? Yeah right!
« Reply #35 on: July 31, 2013, 07:20:42 PM »
If you live in a totalitarian society, I'm all for your freedom to decide which laws should and shouldn't apply to you. I'm not sure Kentucky qualifies, though.

I think more importantly, the level of transgression with the action has to be compared to the benefit and loss of the transgression against the law.
For example, a good stealth camper will gain a sleeping place for the night and will not detract at all from the land.  In this case, the law was really only needed to keep the jerks who will litter and steal firewood off the land.

Another of my favorite activities is UrbEx.  Technically, this is oftentimes trespassing and illegal.  However, following the motto, Take only Pictures: Leave only footprints, the property owner loses nothing and the UrbExer gains incredibly experiences and beautiful pictures.

To play devil's advocate for a second here . . .


If you're torrenting movies and television that you would otherwise not watch, or would rent from the library, there is no real loss to the content provider and the downloader can enjoy some entertainment.  One could argue that the law is only there to keep jerks who try to sell bootleg media from profiting.

I think a better comparison to torrenting materials you otherwise would not watch is stealth camping on a property that is clearly marked with no trespassing signs.  That's something I would not do.

I think a better comparison to tormenting materials you otherwise would not watch is stealth camping on a property that is clearly marked with no trespassing signs, but in an alternate dimension in which there are no humans.

mpbaker22

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Re: Money saving techniques? Yeah right!
« Reply #36 on: July 31, 2013, 08:01:18 PM »
It has occured to me that there may be different points being argued as well.

To be clear, I'm not talking about stealth camping near a place where legal, purchasable campsites exist.  I'm talking about places where camping makes perfect sense (along a trail or such), but is technically illegal due to who owns the land, and there are no legal sites within a reasonable distance.

I think a better comparison to tormenting materials you otherwise would not watch is stealth camping on a property that is clearly marked with no trespassing signs, but in an alternate dimension in which there are no humans.

I have to disagree.  Oftentimes, it's not even a matter of anyone caring whether someone uses the location as a camp or not.  Unfortunately, there's a blanket in the US that makes camping 'illegal' anywhere it's not expressly encouraged.  That is, it's technically illegal in some places where the owner would have no problem with it (someone would still have to press charges, I suppose, but it's still illegal on paper which is what we are talking about). 
Torrented media is usually known somewhere to be for or against the producer's wishes.