Author Topic: MMM is too frugal and should instead focus on offering value to society  (Read 7249 times)

dragoncar

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http://gyroscopicinvesting.com/forum/permanent-portfolio-discussion/questionthe-shockingly-simple-math-behind-early-retirement-mr-money-mustache/

This guy on the permanent portfolio forum thinks that MMM should "focus instead on offering some value to society in the form of a successful business and generating a profit."

Help me lay the smack down. 

Cinder

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Re: MMM is too frugal and should instead focus on offering value to society
« Reply #1 on: February 01, 2014, 04:18:37 AM »
If they mean MMM specifically, he IS offering a huge value to society by getting this knowledge out there and easily accessible for the population. 

If more people save more of their income, buy less useless crap, Have more stability and less stress, and help minimize their negative impact on the world.... yea, much better place to live!

Wildflame

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Re: MMM is too frugal and should instead focus on offering value to society
« Reply #2 on: February 01, 2014, 10:53:59 AM »
You could charge for MMM's advice. No doubt there are many others that do (such as a book I saw in the airport: Get Rich Slowly). Not to mention that MMM did profit off this site at one stage, if I recall correctly, but chose to remove ads (for credit cards?) in order to remain ideologically pure.

Explanation one: the author of the linked discussion is operating off the incorrect assumption that a person who does not monetise the value they provide is not providing value at all. This is false, as there is no necessary nexus between providing value and requiring monetary compensation... but it is an understandable error. Further reading: altruism, charity, mentoring.

Alternative explanation: MMM is gaining value in exchange for his work, but in a non-monetary form, by encouraging the development of a better / happier / less wasteful world.

Third explanation: as an owner of capital, MMM is operating a business - one that involves providing financing to other entities, in exchange for a piece of the value they produce. This is an economically productive activity, as it earns a return. If it were not economically productive, why would people pay him to use his money for a while?

Lans Holman

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Re: MMM is too frugal and should instead focus on offering value to society
« Reply #3 on: February 01, 2014, 11:29:14 AM »
in order to remain ideologically pure.


That's a pretty funny way of saying "so he could keep swearing".

taekvideo

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Re: MMM is too frugal and should instead focus on offering value to society
« Reply #4 on: February 01, 2014, 11:35:54 AM »
in order to remain ideologically pure.


That's a pretty funny way of saying "so he could keep swearing".

Once you open the door to censorship it doesn't stop.
He did the right thing by not selling out.

Jamesqf

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Re: MMM is too frugal and should instead focus on offering value to society
« Reply #5 on: February 01, 2014, 12:30:40 PM »
Not to mention that MMM did profit off this site at one stage, if I recall correctly, but chose to remove ads (for credit cards?) in order to remain ideologically pure.

From what I've read, he still does profit quite a bit from the web site.  He didn't get rid of all paid ads, just a few who wanted to dictate language &c.

mpbaker22

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Re: MMM is too frugal and should instead focus on offering value to society
« Reply #6 on: February 02, 2014, 06:53:34 AM »
Everyone knows that value is only created if more things are wasted and a higher economic profit is achieved.  sarcasm

BPA

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Re: MMM is too frugal and should instead focus on offering value to society
« Reply #7 on: February 02, 2014, 07:47:55 AM »
OMG.  My socialist head is exploding.

Nice response, Dragoncar and others.
« Last Edit: February 02, 2014, 07:49:58 AM by BPA »

Nords

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Re: MMM is too frugal and should instead focus on offering value to society
« Reply #8 on: February 02, 2014, 09:18:09 AM »
http://gyroscopicinvesting.com/forum/permanent-portfolio-discussion/questionthe-shockingly-simple-math-behind-early-retirement-mr-money-mustache/
This guy on the permanent portfolio forum thinks that MMM should "focus instead on offering some value to society in the form of a successful business and generating a profit."
Help me lay the smack down.
Is it really worth your time arguing with someone who spends their time in a permanent portfolio forum?

Assuming that you're going to spend time there, I find it's usually most effective to encourage these sorts of posters to keep working so that their payroll taxes will save Social Security and Medicare.  Or, gee, maybe MMM would be willing to lend the poster some money from the MMM blog advertising revenue to start his own business and pay even more in corporate taxes...

c12mintz

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Re: MMM is too frugal and should instead focus on offering value to society
« Reply #9 on: February 02, 2014, 09:25:28 AM »
Assuming MMM has some of his money in a rental property and the rest in index funds, he is providing a service by supplying capital both directly (rental property upkeep) and indirectly (flows of funds for various companies).

The idea that everyone needs to start a business (directly) as opposed to investing in the markets (indirectly) is clearly flawed. You cannot have one without the other.

pachnik

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Re: MMM is too frugal and should instead focus on offering value to society
« Reply #10 on: February 02, 2014, 11:09:32 AM »
okay, i just looked through the discussion quickly. 

But i think MMM is offering huge value to society by showing people how to get out of debt and become financially independent.  I don't understand how someone could think there is no value in this.  Debt is a huge problem in the US and Canada.  Not to mention people getting closer to retirement without enough money saved.  MMM is doing a great service by laying it all out in a highly readable format. 

Tyler

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Re: MMM is too frugal and should instead focus on offering value to society
« Reply #11 on: February 02, 2014, 11:20:32 AM »
In fairness, the statement referred to by the OP about MMM being too frugal was a throwaway comment (in parentheses) within a post asking how to read the MMM/ERE graph showing the easy math behind early retirement.

So it's a guy clearly interested in the topic but who doesn't know a whole lot about MMM.  Heck, I had a similar reaction at first glance before I learned more. Be welcoming!

Tyler

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Re: MMM is too frugal and should instead focus on offering value to society
« Reply #12 on: February 02, 2014, 11:53:55 AM »
Is it really worth your time arguing with someone who spends their time in a permanent portfolio forum?

If you note the post counts of the people on the Permanent Portfolio forum defending MMM, you'll see that all of them are regular PP contributors.  So you're already talking to more PP readers and investors on the MMM forums than you may realize.  ;)

The Permanent Portfolio forum is a very educational one with good people who are likely to be predisposed to early retirement talk. In fact, there's quite a bit of crossover of PP investors in the ERE crowd, especially.  I've learned a lot from both the PP and MMM forums, and (as I mentioned over there) think the two philosophies share a lot in common.