The Money Mustache Community
Around the Internet => Antimustachian Wall of Shame and Comedy => Topic started by: MayDay on August 11, 2014, 06:59:24 PM
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Something about being a mom, all these women sell loads of pyramid scheme junk. Does anyone else have horror stories?
I just got asked to host a party. "Will you ask all your friends to buy shit so I can make money?".
I may regret this tomorrow, but I emailed her back an article about MLM's and told her I wasn't into them.
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I tried Quixtar (Amway) once. Wasn't good at it, quit in fairly short order. MLM's I don't think are inherently bad, but a lot of people get in with unrealistic expectations, and the reliance on your friends / family can be off-putting.
To really make money at it, you've got to realize that selling products is a waste of your time - recruiting and training new people is the way to the riches, and not that many people are great at recruiting and training a sales staff that turns over several times per year. I guess you could make a little actually selling the products - but most won't make enough doing that to justify the time spent.
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My sister-in-law got involved in selling nutritional supplements called "Juice Plus," and my spouse (her brother) gave in and ordered what were astronomically expensive capsules. They piled up around the house until I put my foot down. It was ridiculous. Even if these supplements had any value (highly dubious; I am not interested in taking something when I have no idea of their origin), our diet is so rich with vegetables and fruits that there is no reason we needed it.
Not surprisingly, the Juice Plus scam did not solve her financial problems. We should have just given her the money directly.
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It's not just the mom's, I get it from the husbands at work too.
Don't worry no one is ever any good at it, it's designed as an unsustainable business model from the start. It's sad, the premise of these scams are to get people to cash in their relationships until no one, friends or family, will talk to them anymore.
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My sister-in-law got involved in selling nutritional supplements called "Juice Plus," and my spouse (her brother) gave in and ordered what were astronomically expensive capsules. They piled up around the house until I put my foot down. It was ridiculous. Even if these supplements had any value (highly dubious; I am not interested in taking something when I have no idea of their origin), our diet is so rich with vegetables and fruits that there is no reason we needed it.
I took Juice Plus for a while at the suggestion of my doctor. I can't eat fruit due to hypoglycemia, so it helped to have what I call "fruit with the sugars taken out in capsule form."
I don't know why other people would take this though, especially people who are able to eat fruit. So I can see why your SIL did not make much money from it. It seems like something meant for a very specific audience, that is trying to be sold to anyone and everyone.
On Edit: When I took it years ago, it had one pill which was "fruit only" and it listed all the ingredients. Now looking at their website, it throws everything together - fruits, vegetables, and grains - and does not list ingredients. So I'm pretty sure I couldn't take it now. Also, back then I bought it off the internet - not from people who throw in-person parties.
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My town has a very high percentage of one industry worker and one SAHM families. I think every MLM I have ever heard of has at least one rep in town. I figured this out shortly after moving here and have always taken the stance that "I don't do home parties" but usually add, "I'll let you know if I need anything!" Funny thing is, I haven't found I need anything.
I also actively try to educate people as to what they are selling, since most don't have a damn clue and it is a sore sport with me, especially the Essential Oil companies reps who spout their dangerous rhetoric without fully understanding what they are selling - and charge outrageous prices.
Just yesterday I got into a discussion with someone selling coffee with Reishi in it. Which is fine for most people - except they didn't know what Reshi is, there was no dosing info available on the website and absolutely no mention of side effects or drug interactions - little things like it can cause a dangerous drop in blood pressure - especially if you are already taking blood pressure lowering meds. But they want you to have several cups a day.
I think my biggest beef is how can you sell a product without having done the basic research to know what it is you are selling?
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I went to a few of these things when I was younger, but I only did it because it felt like an obligation. I never enjoyed them and always felt pressured to buy.
Now I use the "Thank you so much, but I just don't do home parties" thing. I say it quickly and non-judgementally, and then I change the subject quickly. However, fair's fair: Because I don't do this, I also don't throw such parties myself (not a sacrifice -- I'm not inclined in that direction), nor do I ask people to buy fundraisers from my kids' school. I never say, "Oh, not this time" or make excuses because that implies that I might be open to such invitations in the future -- and I'm not.
I would not have sent an article derailing the nature of such parties. That's a bit over-the-top.
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The adult industry product version is the best combination of awkward, entertaining, informative, and just useful enough to get you to buy something. Bring your significant other and get inspired.
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The adult industry product version is the best combination of awkward, entertaining, informative, and just useful enough to get you to buy something. Bring your significant other and get inspired.
I was invited to one of these once thrown by someone I work with. We were not friends nor did we even socialize at work. With the amount of new hires incoming at the time (~80 fresh college students in 2-3 years) it was more of a friends of friends formality. For some reason I felt compelled to go. Probably because she lived in the same apartment complex. It was not a fun party. 10 coworkers you barely talk to and $100+ adult toys... At the end you were supposed to go into the bedroom, try out anything additional, then anonymously write down your order. I went in the room, spied around for 5 minutes, then promptly left. Ugh. Most awkward time ever. And to even think that my coworkers were buying stuff so other coworkers can get free toys? Skeevy to say the least! Glad I got that mistake under my belt so I never have to do it again.
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I know a few people that have done it, and a few that have been sales reps for some of the sketchier companies. At least among the people I know it isn't just mom, there are also plenty of college-educated but traditionally unemployed that are going that route.
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I may regret this tomorrow, but I emailed her back an article about MLM's and told her I wasn't into them.
This is the proper response. Avoid these scams like the plague!
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I went to a few of these things when I was younger, but I only did it because it felt like an obligation. I never enjoyed them and always felt pressured to buy.
Now I use the "Thank you so much, but I just don't do home parties" thing. I say it quickly and non-judgementally, and then I change the subject quickly. However, fair's fair: Because I don't do this, I also don't throw such parties myself (not a sacrifice -- I'm not inclined in that direction), nor do I ask people to buy fundraisers from my kids' school. I never say, "Oh, not this time" or make excuses because that implies that I might be open to such invitations in the future -- and I'm not.
I would not have sent an article derailing the nature of such parties. That's a bit over-the-top.
Usually I just say no thanks when invited, but asking me to host a party sent me of the edge. That is just so rude!
She wasn't offended by my email, and is still happily promoting her little "business".
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Anyone else inundated with Jamberry nails on their Facebook feed? I have two friends who recently became consultants. I'm not sure if it is technically a MLM company, but I find some of their practices dubious. When I noticed that one friend had recently attended a training conference, out of curiosity I looked up the details. It turns out you have to pay hundreds of dollars for entrance into the conference, not to mention your flight, meals, and hotel. I don't know if this is standard with these companies, but I know if it is a real job, you don't have to pay for your own training. If my husband, who works for a large financial institution, has training outside of town, they pay all his expenses. Jamberry probably makes a killing on this "training."
I guess my point in harping on this is because these women seem to genuinely think of Jamberry and other MLMs as a job. Instead they should think of it as a fun hobby with various perks - like getting a product you like for less money, although when you factor in the costs of a conference across the country, I'm not sure how you save money.
Also, I laughed out loud about the sex toy party. Most awkward MLM story I've ever heard.
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Yeah, I hate these "parties." I just got invited to a Jamberry nail thing, a couple months ago it was those crazy, overpriced canvas bags and storage totes. I've also gotten invites for Tupperware, jewelry, Mary Kay, candles, Scentsy, bra parties?!, etc. A LOT of stay at home mom's in my area do this stuff. I don't feel guilty declining invites. I don't have a budget line item for over-priced crap that I don't want....
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When I noticed that one friend had recently attended a training conference, out of curiosity I looked up the details. It turns out you have to pay hundreds of dollars for entrance into the conference, not to mention your flight, meals, and hotel. I don't know if this is standard with these companies, but I know if it is a real job, you don't have to pay for your own training. If my husband, who works for a large financial institution, has training outside of town, they pay all his expenses. Jamberry probably makes a killing on this "training."
Several months ago I agreed to let my SIL give me her pitch for the MLM she works for, and I asked her how the company itself makes money. She had no idea. Just a couple weeks ago she posted pictures from a training event she went to. There must have been 3-4,000 people filling a huge Vegas theatre, each paying probably $50-$100 for their seat. She continued to post pictures of training seminars over the course of a few days. NOW I understand how the company makes their money!
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Scentsy has been taking over my Facebook newsfeed. One of my good friends started selling it recently, so I looked at the site hoping to find something either useful or cheap, but nope! I'd originally thought that it was a candle company, but instead you have to buy a warmer AND scented wax to put in it. Bleh. I feel guilty not supporting my friend, but not guilty enough to waste my money.
I do enjoy Avon occasionally, though, since some of their stuff is cheaper than the drugstore equivalent when it's on sale.
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I just remembered that a few years ago a woman at my church called me because she wanted to "treat me" and come over and give me a free makeover for Mary Kay. I wear no makeup ever and I told her as much. She still wanted to do it, but I said no again. At that point she started to try to guilt me into it - mentioning how this was how she as a stay at home mom was contributing to the family income while her husband was in seminary. I hated every minute of this exchange. It's just not fair to your acquaintances to basically use them for your own financial gain. And it's even worse to try to manipulate you into it. Based on this thread and others like it, it's obvious they all use the same tactics of manipulation. In my case, she wanted to treat me to makeup I didn't want, which appears to be what mapleseed's coworker was doing too.
I wonder if they get credit for staging sessions even if no one buys anything? I know that was the case with Kirby vacuum demonstrations.
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My sister-in-law gave my name to a 17ish girl to come give me a presentation on knives. It was billed to me as a young girl that wanted to practice her presentation skills for this new thing. I hesitated a little since I had no interest in knives - or maybe I wasn't even sure it was knives she was selling - the pitch was all about helping her out with her skills. So I kindly said yes and met with the girl. She went through her whole presentation on the knives and why they were so much better than other knives, etc. I have a whole set of knives at home, so I really had no interest in the knives she was selling.
At the end of her presentation, she brought out the order sheet and I just felt terrible about it. I told her I wasn't interested in buying anything. I thought I was there to provide feedback on her presentation. I think there was some type of confusion about the purpose of the presentation because I could tell she was sad about my no purchase. I did give her the names of some people for her to call that I thought would buy stuff from her. I later called my sister-in-law and said WTF...
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My sister-in-law gave my name to a 17ish girl to come give me a presentation on knives. It was billed to me as a young girl that wanted to practice her presentation skills for this new thing. I hesitated a little since I had no interest in knives - or maybe I wasn't even sure it was knives she was selling - the pitch was all about helping her out with her skills. So I kindly said yes and met with the girl. She went through her whole presentation on the knives and why they were so much better than other knives, etc. I have a whole set of knives at home, so I really had no interest in the knives she was selling.
At the end of her presentation, she brought out the order sheet and I just felt terrible about it. I told her I wasn't interested in buying anything. I thought I was there to provide feedback on her presentation. I think there was some type of confusion about the purpose of the presentation because I could tell she was sad about my no purchase. I did give her the names of some people for her to call that I thought would buy stuff from her. I later called my sister-in-law and said WTF...
OMG! The heard the exact same story last year. You don't need to buy but the person would love feedback on his presentation. They also were pushing the he is a kid visiting from college and trying to earn $. Somehow he earned a little $ just by presenting.
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Don't you guys have wide reaching non-solicitation clauses in your employment contracts? I have yet to hear of MLM schemes at my work, but I hope that HR would hear of it and crack down on that garbage before you can say "no obligation to buy"...
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I got roped into the "help me with my presentation skills" thing by a childhood friend about a year ago. It wasn't MLM. He had started his own business, teaching lifeskill workshops to teenagers and said he wanted to expend to program to professional adults and was looking for participants to do a test run of the workshop. I took him at face value and attended with a view to helping him by attending (since that's what he'd said he'd wanted). He'd wanted a dozen participants. He got 2. At the end, he basically implied that since he'd offered us the free workshop (i.e. helped us), we should now help him by talking up his business to people we knew, networking and promoting him. I felt there was a bit of bait and switch going on there. I also gave him a bit of feedback (not all glowing) but didn't feel like he was that open or receptive to it either. Left a bit of a bad taste in my mouth. Though, to be fair, the workshop itself was quite genuine, and not a pretext for selling something else. I did get at least one really important insight from the workshop.
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Meh, my aunt made a mint on tupperware back in the day, but she has the gift of gab and was able to use that to build an empire on the northeastern seaboard. She has given me some awesomely useful tupperware, too, when she was moving.
My feelings about this kind of thing depend upon how much I am learning in the process. For example, a Mary Kay party taught me the proper way to do several things related to make up (a neighbor's mom let me sit in one when I was about 12.) A creative memories party taught me quite a bit about scrap booking which I have put to use helping children get organized for school projects. Didn't learn much at the pampered chef parties, but I can thank Mom for giving me an advanced cooking education my entire life. "Parties" for candles, baskets, jewelry, clothing etc? I just avoid those all together.
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My wife filled out something for Mary Kay lady that was at a church's summer BBQ thing. Of course she won a free spa treatment! Just sit down in a high pressure sales situation! I told her of course she could go, but she's gonna have to spend her own fun money on it. It's not coming out of any other budget category!
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Asan introvert, the idea of throwing one of these parties, or even going to them, is just exhausting. I have been hit up by a few "friends" before, especially in my SAHM days, and at first I would just buy a few things, mostly out of obligation, but now I just steer clear. I get that people need to make money, but this is one of the most awkward ways of doing it.
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My in laws sold Shacklee products.....it was like a religion to them. Everything the comany ever made as far better then any alternative. When I married their oldest they assumed we would be good disciples and start selling ourselves. Fortunately they got over it quick enough and never pushed it on is. Had a friend that sold Amway products. Had no idea until after we had been friends for awhile and he started a hard sell routine. Turned me off horribly and came close to ending the friendship. Side hustles shouldn't harm friendships.
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It's such a monumental wasted opportunity of time and effort! If somebody invited me to a house party to show a group all the paintings they'd made, I'd probably walk away with one. If a bored housewife/househusband had a little party because he'd recorded his/her own music, same thing. ...Or sell me some plants they'd grown--sure, I'll buy a cilantro and basil off ya, buddy! Or homemade shelf solutions. Or frozen homemade meals. Or knitted mitts and hats. Or chocolate chip cookies even. Or soap. (My mom used to make really fancy candles at home and sell them to friends who asked for them. She also did a mean almond brittle.) But this other corporate Ponzi crap? Nope--shove off, Jack! I think the problem is that many people don't know how to actually do/make anything anymore.
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Had a friend from college doing one for organic cleaning products. She was pushing it on FB and tried to get a then-pregnant mutual friend to purchase through scare tactics. Between that and the regular posts about how horrible cleaning products are, the mutual friend and I had some amusing conversations. I guess some people aren't fans of vinegar.
Back before college, I went to an interview was advertised as a sales job. Turned out to be the cutlery version. Pass.
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I got suckered into buying a Thirty-One bag and wallet. I've never seen more cheaply made products. And when I was younger I got suckered into "job interviews" that turned out to be MLM recruitments.
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It's such a monumental wasted opportunity of time and effort! If somebody invited me to a house party to show a group all the paintings they'd made, I'd probably walk away with one. If a bored housewife/househusband had a little party because he'd recorded his/her own music, same thing. ...Or sell me some plants they'd grown--sure, I'll buy a cilantro and basil off ya, buddy! Or homemade shelf solutions. Or frozen homemade meals. Or knitted mitts and hats. Or chocolate chip cookies even. Or soap. (My mom used to make really fancy candles at home and sell them to friends who asked for them. She also did a mean almond brittle.) But this other corporate Ponzi crap? Nope--shove off, Jack! I think the problem is that many people don't know how to actually do/make anything anymore.
YES!! I have some creative friends who make things and I love to buy them! I also make things, and friends love to buy them! I have some baby showers coming up, so I pulled out my sewing machine and started making gifts. I hate the amount of scrap fabric I can't throw away and keeps accumulating, so I made some patchwork teddy bears (very simple... nothing extravagant!) mentioned it to a couple of people and sold 4 already... at $10 a piece! People love hand made gifts, and a lot of people can't make anything, so buying it is just as good. MLM is corporate crap that you can get from WalMart.... my neighbor tried to sell me some vitamins once and made me feel so guilty about saying no. Then they lost their house in bankruptcy.. still feeling guilty, but I know they could have gotten real jobs...
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When I was in college (pre-MMM days, naturally), I met a guy in IT who represented Amway and Britt Worldwide. He really worked me over into getting me into selling Amway, and I started trying to, and admittedly some of the products weren't that bad to me, but...at the end of the day, it still cost me $60 a year just to be registered and have the "potential" to sell to others. I'm an introvert, so it wasn't really for me to begin with.
They even have meetings in hotels that they rent out one of the lobby rooms for presentations. Everyone has to wear formal clothes (suit and tie). It happens on every other week, and on the weeks opposing, they meet in one of the member's houses. High ranking, of course, and formal as well. Why I ever joined that crap just to shell out so much money, I really don't know anymore. Then again, he was a real smooth talker...I even helped one of his family members who wanted out of her relationship with what I assume was an abusive husband or something like that. I don't mind that, but the Amway stuff...just not for me.
It did teach me that buying in bulk definitely saves money, especially if there's a sale. I just wish I had all that money I spent back so I could put it in my savings account. I don't think I'll ever go back to any MLM scheme, especially to sell.
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A very good childhood friend of mine is a serial MLMer.
He first tried to get me to buy into this MLM thing a few years after we had graduated high school. I hadn't seen him in a long time and we were just hanging out and out of the blue, he goes, "Hey, let me tell about this business I'm starting." It was basically this website/catalog that you order stuff through (at a supposed steep discount) and for extra money you can get others to join. Most of the presentation was long the lines of, "I know this sounds like Amway, but it isn't Amway." I didn't know what Amway was at the time! But I didn't tell him that. When I got back home I looked it up and it was pretty much a textbook MLM.
A few years later, he was selling really expensive vitamins. They were these huge horse pills and you had to take like three of them a day.
As of a couple years ago he (and now his wife) sell this exotic acai berry juice. They even promoted it during the toast at their wedding. Apparently this particular berry is very rare and can grow only in this one sacred patch in the jungle and perishes quickly so it's not economical to mass produce. (Although Walmart has had it on their shelves for the past five years.) Oh, and it has nearly unlimited mystical healing powers. He actually said, "Now the FDA says I can't tell you that it cures cancer but people have been diagnosed with cancer, started a regimen of drinking this berry juice, and now they don't have cancer anymore." It comes in a champagne bottle and is $25 a pop. He made me try some and it's basically 75% olive oil to 25% berry juice. And fully disgusting. Then he asks me how many bottles he should put me down for. I'm like, "you've known me since the fifth grade, you should know better than to even ask that." He just smiled and said, "Yeah, but I had to try."
We are still good friends but I have to be diligent about changing the subject whenever he brings up that damn berry juice.
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I met the parents of one of my son's classmates at a meet and greet, and my husband says that the father managed to sneak into the conversation at least five times the mention of something called Juice Plus. Is that also a MLM? The insidious tactic sounds familiar.
It's a few months since I posted about a Facebook friend who regularly posts about Jamberry Nails. She has said at least five times, "I can't believe I get paid to do this!" But my question is - how much is she really making? I guess some people must make money on these ventures, right? But I wonder if they are calculating their hourly wage and deducting the amount they spend on training, conferences, etc.
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The adult industry product version is the best combination of awkward, entertaining, informative, and just useful enough to get you to buy something. Bring your significant other and get inspired.
These are my favorite. One of my clients for my side gig does Slumber Parties, and men weren't allowed. Except that I was getting paid to be on-site tech support, plus I got all the left over food. mmmmm. I still remember helping her clean up afterwards one day, and walking over to the presenter with a literal arm-load of dildos, asking if they were hers. Even she blushed. It was so much fun.
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I hate most of the MLM stuff, but I do love tupperware, and any of the pampered chef stuff I've bought, has been excellent, and exactly as advertised.
I sold jewellery for a while myself, but mainly just so I could build up a decent selection myself.
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It's a few months since I posted about a Facebook friend who regularly posts about Jamberry Nails. She has said at least five times, "I can't believe I get paid to do this!" But my question is - how much is she really making? I guess some people must make money on these ventures, right? But I wonder if they are calculating their hourly wage and deducting the amount they spend on training, conferences, etc.
My SIL posts things like that all the time, and I've flat out asked her how much she's making with one of her MLMs. Her answer: a couple hundred dollars per year. And that's revenue, not profit. Her expenses are ridiculous because she attends paid seminars and buys stuff from the company that she wouldn't otherwise buy. She's probably even counting the commissions she earns on her own purchases as part of her revenue.
Those posts are just to lure other people in. It's really very meta: "I can't believe I get paid to do this!" where "this" is posting this status update to sucker my friends into joining my network. :)
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when I was younger I got suckered into "job interviews" that turned out to be MLM recruitments.
I made that mistake once, it was for Cutco and they told us we had to buy a knife set to use as our presentation piece when we sold. I started laughing and said "so you want us to pay you to sell your product?!" as I walked out half the room followed.
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MLM is a scam in all forms. "Well, it's not all bad ..." yes, yes it is. "I do it so I can get stuff on discount for myself!" I guarantee you the same things will be cheaper bought retail, from a real store, brick-and-mortar or online, than the "discounted price" is for you. "I heard x made money!" X always makes money, that's how it works; you're not X, you won't. "But I can drive a new BMW!" So can anyone, it's called credit. "I make a thousand dollars a week!" I make three, and I get to have friends. "But x product is such high quality!" Maybe compared to some other garbage you used before.
If you're getting your own leads, and you're paying commission to someone else for the privilege, you're getting fucked. No amount of mental gymnastics makes this not true. I'm looking at you, people on this forum who should be smarter than this. You're not half as smart as you think if you've fallen for a single one of these blatantly obvious scams.
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My cousin and her husband were visiting out from out of town and we were talking about another cousin who's been in NYC for a long time and just making ends meet. I started rambling on typical mustachian topics, how I love NYC but if she moved back home she could save money and build wealth and so on and so fourth. :D
All of a sudden, they thought that me talking about wealth building meant that I was a perfect fit for "momentis" which is like, MLM for electricity and cable and cell phone bills and crap. They started talking about how "it's going to be a revolution" and how "everyone will be in it a few years" and "we're getting in early, and it's going BLOW UP, and we'll do SO well," bla bla blah. They go to meetings and they are sold the same dream as we all talk about.... lifestyle design, financial independence, early retirement, etc. But they are sold it using hyped up, cult-like, motivational-psychological-brainwashing, and it's quite sad. They even talked about how the CEO of the company is such this great family man that's so great and kind and has good values and bla bla bla, and it was clearly a contrived image crafted to elicit exactly that response.
It's really sad, because they told me why they want to do it... provide for their families, he's got a mentally challenged brother. It pisses me off that they are being taken advantage of but I knew that arguing about it with them wouldn't do any good so I bit my tongue. It's classic cult tactics.
They claim to be bringing in $150 a month with it.
It's not a scam in the sense that anything will be stolen from them, it was only a $300 investment so they claim to be in the black, but it is a scam in the sense that they will waste a lot of time on it, and the superawesome family-man-moral-superhero of a CEO will get most of the fruits of the labor, and move on to somebody else.
http://momentis.net/ . Their website is, of course, more about the "opportunity" than the products being marketed.
I want to just teach them to go thrifting and get an eBay account.
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It's a few months since I posted about a Facebook friend who regularly posts about Jamberry Nails. She has said at least five times, "I can't believe I get paid to do this!" But my question is - how much is she really making? I guess some people must make money on these ventures, right? But I wonder if they are calculating their hourly wage and deducting the amount they spend on training, conferences, etc.
My SIL posts things like that all the time, and I've flat out asked her how much she's making with one of her MLMs. Her answer: a couple hundred dollars per year. And that's revenue, not profit. Her expenses are ridiculous because she attends paid seminars and buys stuff from the company that she wouldn't otherwise buy. She's probably even counting the commissions she earns on her own purchases as part of her revenue.
Those posts are just to lure other people in. It's really very meta: "I can't believe I get paid to do this!" where "this" is posting this status update to sucker my friends into joining my network. :)
Huh. That's interesting. I've always considered this particular woman to be smart and with high integrity. If she is indeed posting these types of updates with a lack of sincerity, then I'm truly surprised. My guess is that it is likely she is fully suckered into the MLM vortex and doesn't realize she is a pawn. I'm sure the companies foster this type of friendship and camaraderie intentionally. She's a SAHM looking for an identity, and this type of scheme capitalizes on that personal need in the most egregious of ways. One post in particular struck me. She was attending the Jamberry national conference and had a glowing report about how philanthropic the organization is and how privileged she is to be a part of such a selfless organization. That really stuck me as a sign of some serious hoodwinking.
Another neighbor constantly posts about Usborne books. Hers are much less #ilovemyjob and more #buyfrommenow! Neither tactic sways me but they are substantively different approaches.
I actually like Usborne books, but I'm much more likely to buy Scholastic books from my kids' school and give the PTO the kickback than some random person I am acquainted with on Facebook.
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You're not half as smart as you think if you've fallen for a single one of these blatantly obvious scams.
There's no need for such a harsh tone on a subject where people are easily able to make mistakes. I also feel as one targeted for this, because of my comment. Yes, I made a mistake, and even admitted to it, but that was years ago, and I only discovered MMM maybe two months ago. People who don't realize what they're getting into can easily fall into this type of scheme, including people who are otherwise very intellectual.
I thought the goal of this thread was more to warn people about this type of thing as well as give insight into it, not just grill people over it. At the end of the day, everyone makes a bad decision or two, some we're not proud of to this day, but all of us have one common goal in mind: Becoming financially independent so we can retire early...or, in other words, FIRE. What is life without a couple mistakes, anyway? Makes things exciting.
Back on subject, I have a cousin that's super heavy into Juice Plus...she also believes everything said on Fox News is absolute, irrefutable truth and unbiased. I knew better than to say a word to her once I heard those words from her mouth.
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I have a friend who lost something like $20k doing MLM. His reasoning was that he didn’t know enough people then to make a success of it. He’s since got back into it, and got his wife involved, and spent tens of thousands of dollars going to success seminars and trying to become a property investor. He left a $150k job to do the property thing and become a life coach. As far as I understand, they have pulled out ALL the equity in the house they own in order to fund the property investment / life coach courses, are $50k in debt on cars and things like that, and have nothing to show for it.
I just want to grab him and shake him. He’s an incredibly intelligent dude who hasn’t caught on to the fact that if he wasn’t so desperate to get rich quickly, he could’ve got rich slowly with the kind of money he was pulling in in his line of work.
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My BIL got suckered into working for one of these full-time. It's a Christian organization called Mutual Believer's Association. Basically, he was selling memberships to the association, which would get the member things like roadside assistance, a nurse advice line, and various discounts. I don't remember how much the membership is. Anyway, this wasn't just a side hustle, this was his full-time job. He got paid 100% commission, no base salary, working 50 hours a week. My sister is a SAHM with a 3-year-old and a newborn... and they had zero money coming in; he was literally working more than full-time for a couple hundred dollars a month. My mom went to visit when the baby was born, and spent a bunch of money buying them groceries, toiletries, etc. Their church paid their rent one month when they couldn't, and I don't know what happened after that, though they're not homeless yet that I know of.
He'd had a real job, but quit it because his boss at this "ministry" convinced him that he was a great salesman and would make tons of money. I think he's back at his real job now, but from the looks of his FB, still peddling MBA shit on the side. Fucking stupidest thing I've ever heard of. And my sister doesn't have the sense to put her foot down about it, because she's got this idea of "Christian wifely submission" and such, basically meaning that she supports anything he does 100%, no matter how idiotic it is, even if it makes them homeless. He can do no wrong in her eyes.
Here (http://www.mbaforthepeople.com) is the super-classy website.
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My BIL got suckered into working for one of these full-time. It's a Christian organization called Mutual Believer's Association. Basically, he was selling memberships to the association, which would get the member things like roadside assistance, a nurse advice line, and various discounts. I don't remember how much the membership is. Anyway, this wasn't just a side hustle, this was his full-time job. He got paid 100% commission, no base salary, working 50 hours a week. My sister is a SAHM with a 3-year-old and a newborn... and they had zero money coming in; he was literally working more than full-time for a couple hundred dollars a month. My mom went to visit when the baby was born, and spent a bunch of money buying them groceries, toiletries, etc. Their church paid their rent one month when they couldn't, and I don't know what happened after that, though they're not homeless yet that I know of.
He'd had a real job, but quit it because his boss at this "ministry" convinced him that he was a great salesman and would make tons of money. I think he's back at his real job now, but from the looks of his FB, still peddling MBA shit on the side. Fucking stupidest thing I've ever heard of. And my sister doesn't have the sense to put her foot down about it, because she's got this idea of "Christian wifely submission" and such, basically meaning that she supports anything he does 100%, no matter how idiotic it is, even if it makes them homeless. He can do no wrong in her eyes.
Here (http://www.mbaforthepeople.com) is the super-classy website.
OMG have you seen the info they ask for under the 'Join Us' tab? http://www.mbaforthepeople.com/join-us/
Social Security Number? WHAT? I feel faint.
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I had seen that, but I forgot about it. Yikes.
Oh hey! It's $125. There ya go. I think he got a $25 commission for each membership sold. How he was supposed to support a wife & 2 kids on that, I have no idea.
I'd be infuriated, but if someone is dumb enough to get themselves involved in something that is so obviously a scam, they deserve it. Same for my sis - if my husband quit his job for something like this, I'd take the kids and leave till he got his head out of his ass. I do feel bad for the kids, but they're young enough to not know the difference. They're on Medicaid, food stamps, and WIC (though they're tea-party type Republicans against entitlement stuff; don't ask me how that works), so the kids' basic needs are taken care of. For now. My sister will stay with him no matter what. When I got divorced bc my first husband was abusive and unfaithful, she was upset with me. So, y'know... whatever. Sucks for the kids, but the adults get what they deserve.
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They're on Medicaid, food stamps, and WIC (though they're tea-party type Republicans against entitlement stuff; don't ask me how that works), so the kids' basic needs are taken care of. For now.
They probably rationalize it as "bleeding the Beast." I know I always feel beastly when I write those big, fat checks to pay my federal and state income taxes every year.
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It's a few months since I posted about a Facebook friend who regularly posts about Jamberry Nails. She has said at least five times, "I can't believe I get paid to do this!" But my question is - how much is she really making? I guess some people must make money on these ventures, right? But I wonder if they are calculating their hourly wage and deducting the amount they spend on training, conferences, etc.
My SIL posts things like that all the time, and I've flat out asked her how much she's making with one of her MLMs. Her answer: a couple hundred dollars per year. And that's revenue, not profit. Her expenses are ridiculous because she attends paid seminars and buys stuff from the company that she wouldn't otherwise buy. She's probably even counting the commissions she earns on her own purchases as part of her revenue.
Those posts are just to lure other people in. It's really very meta: "I can't believe I get paid to do this!" where "this" is posting this status update to sucker my friends into joining my network. :)
Huh. That's interesting. I've always considered this particular woman to be smart and with high integrity. If she is indeed posting these types of updates with a lack of sincerity, then I'm truly surprised. My guess is that it is likely she is fully suckered into the MLM vortex and doesn't realize she is a pawn. I'm sure the companies foster this type of friendship and camaraderie intentionally. She's a SAHM looking for an identity, and this type of scheme capitalizes on that personal need in the most egregious of ways. One post in particular struck me. She was attending the Jamberry national conference and had a glowing report about how philanthropic the organization is and how privileged she is to be a part of such a selfless organization. That really stuck me as a sign of some serious hoodwinking.
Another neighbor constantly posts about Usborne books. Hers are much less #ilovemyjob and more #buyfrommenow! Neither tactic sways me but they are substantively different approaches.
I actually like Usborne books, but I'm much more likely to buy Scholastic books from my kids' school and give the PTO the kickback than some random person I am acquainted with on Facebook.
I don't think my SIL or your friend are posting these things with any intentions of being disingenuous, they're pawns who have been convinced that they're participating in a legitimate business. Even if they're currently in the red or just barely breaking even, they see unlimited potential in how much they can earn because they've been told they can make as much money as they want with their "business". So they don't see it as insincere to say they're being paid to do this, but they'll always have some rationalization as to why they're not making as much money as they could be ("if I didn't have two kids and could do this full time, I'd be making $15k per month!").
Also, others have noted the ties to church; this is a trend I've seen as well. The three people I know who are involved in MLMs are all regular church-goers. I think MLMs may prey on this group of people.
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They're on Medicaid, food stamps, and WIC (though they're tea-party type Republicans against entitlement stuff; don't ask me how that works), so the kids' basic needs are taken care of. For now.
They probably rationalize it as "bleeding the Beast." I know I always feel beastly when I write those big, fat checks to pay my federal and state income taxes every year.
I honestly think they don't see their financial situation as their fault. They see it as following God's will, which is supposed to be hard and bring persecution. They deserve the assistance so that they can do this "ministry." It's how God is providing, I guess.
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I honestly think they don't see their financial situation as their fault. They see it as following God's will, which is supposed to be hard and bring persecution. They deserve the assistance so that they can do this "ministry." It's how God is providing, I guess.
A bit off topic - my mother was raised in a strict fundamentalist church. She's told me a story of a woman there who had all her teeth pulled and refused to get dentures because God was going to answer her prayers and give her new teeth! I didn't realize you could order up whatever you wanted from God. Should Jeff Bezos be worried? ;-)
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They're on Medicaid, food stamps, and WIC (though they're tea-party type Republicans against entitlement stuff; don't ask me how that works)
It's a simple rationalization. "Food stamps for other people are handouts to the lazy, but I know that I'm a hard worker so I deserve the help."
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I wonder if people who are doing MLM realize how much it damages their relationships. I have a beautiful younger cousin with three young children who has a lively Facebook page which I enjoy very much. Or rather, that I enjoyed until she started promoting her "Plexus Slim" program. I don't want to block her, because I do enjoy hearing about her family, and initially Facebook brought us closer, but the Plexus Slim schtick is pushing me to decide she is someone I don't want in my life after all.
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just my 2 cents. I joined Amway when I was out of college and working as a software engineer fulltime. One of my sister's friends introduced me to it. I knew what it was going in and have researched extensively about it. He brought me to a small local meeting at someone's home where they had each members going up there giving presentations and talking about products and things they learned from customers that week. I've always wanted to overcome my fear of public speaking and being able to make sales pitches to VCs / angel investors for my great dot com ideas in the future. I figured this was an easier way to get started since the nearest toast masters meeting was a bit of a drive. I joined after a few meetings. I didn't worry much about the money because I knew it wasn't sustainable unless you work it 24/7 selling and teaching people. But it taught me a lot about the psychology of selling and interaction with people. It forced me to get out of my comfort zone to talk to strangers and seeing how I can read people better. That definitely helped me a lot with girls at social gatherings. I am I was able to create a team of 30 or so downlines in the 2 years I was in it. The business also introduced me to a lot of the books that I wouldn't have read on my own. "How to Win Friends and Influence People" and a bunch of Dale Carnegie / self improvement books. I lucked out because the people that mentored me weren't the pushy types that were trying to get me to make money for them, they were all working full time as professionals and thought they could make a little side hustle of "passive" income. I basically got a 2 year course on public speaking and personal improvement coaching for the measly price of 2 years of membership and some product purchases (like soap, shampoo). I am still very good friends with 2 of the mentors after all these years and have invited them to my wedding this year. I guess this is just an anecdote about some of the types of people that are in these MLM things. I didn see a lot of "sell sell sell" and pushy types in other teams and some of the products they sell are pretty crappy and overpriced.
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My cousin and her husband were visiting out from out of town and we were talking about another cousin who's been in NYC for a long time and just making ends meet. I started rambling on typical mustachian topics, how I love NYC but if she moved back home she could save money and build wealth and so on and so fourth. :D
All of a sudden, they thought that me talking about wealth building meant that I was a perfect fit for "momentis" which is like, MLM for electricity and cable and cell phone bills and crap. They started talking about how "it's going to be a revolution" and how "everyone will be in it a few years" and "we're getting in early, and it's going BLOW UP, and we'll do SO well," bla bla blah. They go to meetings and they are sold the same dream as we all talk about.... lifestyle design, financial independence, early retirement, etc. But they are sold it using hyped up, cult-like, motivational-psychological-brainwashing, and it's quite sad. They even talked about how the CEO of the company is such this great family man that's so great and kind and has good values and bla bla bla, and it was clearly a contrived image crafted to elicit exactly that response.
It's really sad, because they told me why they want to do it... provide for their families, he's got a mentally challenged brother. It pisses me off that they are being taken advantage of but I knew that arguing about it with them wouldn't do any good so I bit my tongue. It's classic cult tactics.
They claim to be bringing in $150 a month with it.
It's not a scam in the sense that anything will be stolen from them, it was only a $300 investment so they claim to be in the black, but it is a scam in the sense that they will waste a lot of time on it, and the superawesome family-man-moral-superhero of a CEO will get most of the fruits of the labor, and move on to somebody else.
http://momentis.net/ . Their website is, of course, more about the "opportunity" than the products being marketed.
I want to just teach them to go thrifting and get an eBay account.
OMG, I got talked into a company exactly like this a few years ago (although I'm completely blanking on the name of it) and they said the EXACT same things! It was a tech company and instead of selling physical stuff you were trying to get all your friends to sign up for cell/tv/internet/electricity/ etc... through you and then each month when they paid their bills you got paid. It was supposed to be this big incredible opportunity (especially the electricity portion of it) because it was services that everyone uses and you're just using that as an opportunity to get paid. Sounded perfect but It turned out to be the most obnoxious thing of my life.
First, when I signed up I was VERY strict and said I would NOT do it if I had to bug friends and family. That I wanted opportunities to sell elsewhere and I would NOT host crap or bug friends and family. They told me absolutely no problem they had lots of ways to help teach you how to pick up customers outside of friends and family and that they would do that for me.
Day 1 I'm getting bugged about hosting crap and selling to friends and family. They even went beyond that and tried to get me to send them a list of all my friend's and families phone numbers and they were relentless! They wouldn't stop! They talked down to me like I was some sort of a child. Within like a week I regretted everything and just wanted out desperately. I quite speaking to them all together because they wouldn't leave me alone. I was mad. I spend a good couple hundred just to get in and get started. It was awful and I will never do it again!
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My cousin and her husband were visiting out from out of town and we were talking about another cousin who's been in NYC for a long time and just making ends meet. I started rambling on typical mustachian topics, how I love NYC but if she moved back home she could save money and build wealth and so on and so fourth. :D
All of a sudden, they thought that me talking about wealth building meant that I was a perfect fit for "momentis" which is like, MLM for electricity and cable and cell phone bills and crap. They started talking about how "it's going to be a revolution" and how "everyone will be in it a few years" and "we're getting in early, and it's going BLOW UP, and we'll do SO well," bla bla blah. They go to meetings and they are sold the same dream as we all talk about.... lifestyle design, financial independence, early retirement, etc. But they are sold it using hyped up, cult-like, motivational-psychological-brainwashing, and it's quite sad. They even talked about how the CEO of the company is such this great family man that's so great and kind and has good values and bla bla bla, and it was clearly a contrived image crafted to elicit exactly that response.
It's really sad, because they told me why they want to do it... provide for their families, he's got a mentally challenged brother. It pisses me off that they are being taken advantage of but I knew that arguing about it with them wouldn't do any good so I bit my tongue. It's classic cult tactics.
They claim to be bringing in $150 a month with it.
It's not a scam in the sense that anything will be stolen from them, it was only a $300 investment so they claim to be in the black, but it is a scam in the sense that they will waste a lot of time on it, and the superawesome family-man-moral-superhero of a CEO will get most of the fruits of the labor, and move on to somebody else.
http://momentis.net/ . Their website is, of course, more about the "opportunity" than the products being marketed.
I want to just teach them to go thrifting and get an eBay account.
OMG, I got talked into a company exactly like this a few years ago (although I'm completely blanking on the name of it) and they said the EXACT same things! It was a tech company and instead of selling physical stuff you were trying to get all your friends to sign up for cell/tv/internet/electricity/ etc... through you and then each month when they paid their bills you got paid. It was supposed to be this big incredible opportunity (especially the electricity portion of it) because it was services that everyone uses and you're just using that as an opportunity to get paid. Sounded perfect but It turned out to be the most obnoxious thing of my life.
First, when I signed up I was VERY strict and said I would NOT do it if I had to bug friends and family. That I wanted opportunities to sell elsewhere and I would NOT host crap or bug friends and family. They told me absolutely no problem they had lots of ways to help teach you how to pick up customers outside of friends and family and that they would do that for me.
Day 1 I'm getting bugged about hosting crap and selling to friends and family. They even went beyond that and tried to get me to send them a list of all my friend's and families phone numbers and they were relentless! They wouldn't stop! They talked down to me like I was some sort of a child. Within like a week I regretted everything and just wanted out desperately. I quite speaking to them all together because they wouldn't leave me alone. I was mad. I spend a good couple hundred just to get in and get started. It was awful and I will never do it again!
That sounds like exactly the same thing that my cousins are doing. Fortunately, it seems that they have not had as extreme of an experience. He told me he has very mixed feelings about pushing it on his family and friends and that he only ever brings it up once and shuts his mouth. I haven't heard about them alienating anyone yet, so hopefully it stays that way.
I just wish people knew how many opportunities there are to start legitimate side businesses instead of getting into this stuff.
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I honestly think they don't see their financial situation as their fault. They see it as following God's will, which is supposed to be hard and bring persecution. They deserve the assistance so that they can do this "ministry." It's how God is providing, I guess.
A bit off topic - my mother was raised in a strict fundamentalist church. She's told me a story of a woman there who had all her teeth pulled and refused to get dentures because God was going to answer her prayers and give her new teeth! I didn't realize you could order up whatever you wanted from God. Should Jeff Bezos be worried? ;-)
It's too perfect to pass up:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=74SQ6w6LdU0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=74SQ6w6LdU0)
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It's too perfect to pass up:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=74SQ6w6LdU0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=74SQ6w6LdU0)
Love it!
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Well, I do pay into the Social Security system, the worst pyramid scheme of all time. Does that count?
I did do Amway when I was younger - not even 1 legitimate sale, lost $150 in the startup kit.
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People love hand made gifts, and a lot of people can't make anything, so buying it is just as good. MLM is corporate crap that you can get from WalMart.... my neighbor tried to sell me some vitamins once and made me feel so guilty about saying no. Then they lost their house in bankruptcy.. still feeling guilty, but I know they could have gotten real jobs...
Exactly! Chances are if (with the time and energy spent on MLM) they did something they were good at like baking pies or even something as crazy as welding art, they'd be much further ahead. ...And they wouldn't be harassing friends/family in the process. I knew a 20-year old girl in Vancouver who couldn't keep up with demand for her wrought iron welded coffee tables. Ok, so some people maybe can't "make" anything. But that doesn't mean one of them isn't a helluva great carpenter who could fix my closet doors. Or a seamstress who could fix buttons on a bunch of shirts I haven't been wearing. (Yes, I can sew myself--just not great at it.)
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On a similar note, folks who are unemployed need to really watch out for job postings that are anything but. It's so sad how many people use manipulation tactics to take advantage of people who are usually scraping the bottom of the barrel, both emotionally and financially.
When hubby was unemployed, I can't tell you how many franchise opportunities were being billed as job opportunities. Not the typical franchises either - things like selling tools or running a dumpster franchise, with some pretty hefty fees to sign up.
The worst, was a recruitment firm that brought you in under the guise of job opportunities, and then ran you through an hour long brainwashing of how their mentor-ship services would land you a better paying job, a better life, and a money tree in your backyard. They even pretend that they want full family support (before they fleece you), so the next step was to come in with the family to discuss this total change in life plan. If memory serves, leading you down this amazing road would only cost you $5K to start!
My hubby is a natural born salesman, but as I often joke, he's also the first person to get sold. He came home with stars in his eyes, and I was just so annoyed that companies like this exist to take advantage of someone who is down in the dumps. I refused to attend this meeting, and suggested we do a google search to learn more about this company. Well, they clearly had already thought of that, and named the company THE.
I had to dig, but found a little information about their particular scam, enough to dash hubby's hopes and stop him from paying $5K to a useless, overpriced cheerleader. We recovered just fine, but it really burns me to see so many people in the business of taking advantage of others who may not be thinking straight at that moment in time.
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My cousin and her husband were visiting out from out of town and we were talking about another cousin who's been in NYC for a long time and just making ends meet. I started rambling on typical mustachian topics, how I love NYC but if she moved back home she could save money and build wealth and so on and so fourth. :D
All of a sudden, they thought that me talking about wealth building meant that I was a perfect fit for "momentis" which is like, MLM for electricity and cable and cell phone bills and crap. They started talking about how "it's going to be a revolution" and how "everyone will be in it a few years" and "we're getting in early, and it's going BLOW UP, and we'll do SO well," bla bla blah. They go to meetings and they are sold the same dream as we all talk about.... lifestyle design, financial independence, early retirement, etc. But they are sold it using hyped up, cult-like, motivational-psychological-brainwashing, and it's quite sad. They even talked about how the CEO of the company is such this great family man that's so great and kind and has good values and bla bla bla, and it was clearly a contrived image crafted to elicit exactly that response.
It's really sad, because they told me why they want to do it... provide for their families, he's got a mentally challenged brother. It pisses me off that they are being taken advantage of but I knew that arguing about it with them wouldn't do any good so I bit my tongue. It's classic cult tactics.
They claim to be bringing in $150 a month with it.
It's not a scam in the sense that anything will be stolen from them, it was only a $300 investment so they claim to be in the black, but it is a scam in the sense that they will waste a lot of time on it, and the superawesome family-man-moral-superhero of a CEO will get most of the fruits of the labor, and move on to somebody else.
http://momentis.net/ . Their website is, of course, more about the "opportunity" than the products being marketed.
I want to just teach them to go thrifting and get an eBay account.
OMG, I got talked into a company exactly like this a few years ago (although I'm completely blanking on the name of it) and they said the EXACT same things! It was a tech company and instead of selling physical stuff you were trying to get all your friends to sign up for cell/tv/internet/electricity/ etc... through you and then each month when they paid their bills you got paid. It was supposed to be this big incredible opportunity (especially the electricity portion of it) because it was services that everyone uses and you're just using that as an opportunity to get paid. Sounded perfect but It turned out to be the most obnoxious thing of my life.
First, when I signed up I was VERY strict and said I would NOT do it if I had to bug friends and family. That I wanted opportunities to sell elsewhere and I would NOT host crap or bug friends and family. They told me absolutely no problem they had lots of ways to help teach you how to pick up customers outside of friends and family and that they would do that for me.
Day 1 I'm getting bugged about hosting crap and selling to friends and family. They even went beyond that and tried to get me to send them a list of all my friend's and families phone numbers and they were relentless! They wouldn't stop! They talked down to me like I was some sort of a child. Within like a week I regretted everything and just wanted out desperately. I quite speaking to them all together because they wouldn't leave me alone. I was mad. I spend a good couple hundred just to get in and get started. It was awful and I will never do it again!
That sounds like exactly the same thing that my cousins are doing. Fortunately, it seems that they have not had as extreme of an experience. He told me he has very mixed feelings about pushing it on his family and friends and that he only ever brings it up once and shuts his mouth. I haven't heard about them alienating anyone yet, so hopefully it stays that way.
I just wish people knew how many opportunities there are to start legitimate side businesses instead of getting into this stuff.
Yeah, it was no fun. They wanted me to go to weekly meetings that were 45 minutes away after work AND sometimes on Saturdays too! I don't have time for that!!! I was suckered in because a coworker friend was really into it and he was able to talk me into it by telling me that it was because of this company that he was able to take a year off work and just stay home and spend time with his teenage daughter. I had just recently discovered Dave Ramsey and was working through the baby steps and loved the idea of being able to pay off all my debts really fast! I was also pretty young and didn't have kids yet, I loved the idea of being able to stay home with them (this was also before discovering MMM). It all sounded good... but only VERY briefly. A mistake that I am glad I learned from quickly!!!
He later admitted that the company was a horrible scam and he made no money off of it. Unfortunately, we are no longer friends either, but that's for a few reasons...
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How does MBA make enough to pay for the pastor pensions or job loss? That cant happen on the small amt retained of the membership money after the profit sharing...They must get donations in addition to the memberships?
Omg, $25 commission, you need to sell almost 2000 per year to make $50k...
You would need to group sell after very very large gatherings. Even selling 10 to 20 a week, every week, after church services(travelling to variuos locales) would not cut it.
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My dear old Grandma Ann has been a Shaklee(tm) maven for gosh decades at this point and I dunno anything about their finances (one time they gave her a GMC Jimmy! 19 years ago!!) but the funny part is that when I graduated from college, and had a job offer that I had already accepted, she still kept making me watch Shaklee(tm) recruiting videos about how you only had to recruit your 8 closest friends or whatever. I remember being like "I don't even have eight friends," and she suggested I join a church, thereby getting right with the Lord.
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How does MBA make enough to pay for the pastor pensions or job loss? That cant happen on the small amt retained of the membership money after the profit sharing...They must get donations in addition to the memberships?
Omg, $25 commission, you need to sell almost 2000 per year to make $50k...
You would need to group sell after very very large gatherings. Even selling 10 to 20 a week, every week, after church services(travelling to variuos locales) would not cut it.
Hell if I know. I'm pretty sure it was started by the guy my BIL was/is working for, and the whole mess will go under before anyone tries to actually tap into those "benefits." Or, there's all kinds of requirements and stipulations that keep ppl from getting it. Either way, there's no way they'd actually be able to deliver on those promises.
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They go to meetings and they are sold the same dream as we all talk about.... lifestyle design, financial independence, early retirement, etc. But they are sold it using hyped up, cult-like, motivational-psychological-brainwashing, and it's quite sad. They even talked about how the CEO of the company is such this great family man that's so great and kind and has good values and bla bla bla, and it was clearly a contrived image crafted to elicit exactly that response.
Well that sounds decidedly UNmustachian! Perhaps they need a face punch directly from MMM himself, if he wasn't so busy being an upstanding family man.
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My cousin and her husband were visiting out from out of town and we were talking about another cousin who's been in NYC for a long time and just making ends meet. I started rambling on typical mustachian topics, how I love NYC but if she moved back home she could save money and build wealth and so on and so fourth. :D
All of a sudden, they thought that me talking about wealth building meant that I was a perfect fit for "momentis" which is like, MLM for electricity and cable and cell phone bills and crap. They started talking about how "it's going to be a revolution" and how "everyone will be in it a few years" and "we're getting in early, and it's going BLOW UP, and we'll do SO well," bla bla blah. They go to meetings and they are sold the same dream as we all talk about.... lifestyle design, financial independence, early retirement, etc. But they are sold it using hyped up, cult-like, motivational-psychological-brainwashing, and it's quite sad. They even talked about how the CEO of the company is such this great family man that's so great and kind and has good values and bla bla bla, and it was clearly a contrived image crafted to elicit exactly that response.
It's really sad, because they told me why they want to do it... provide for their families, he's got a mentally challenged brother. It pisses me off that they are being taken advantage of but I knew that arguing about it with them wouldn't do any good so I bit my tongue. It's classic cult tactics.
They claim to be bringing in $150 a month with it.
It's not a scam in the sense that anything will be stolen from them, it was only a $300 investment so they claim to be in the black, but it is a scam in the sense that they will waste a lot of time on it, and the superawesome family-man-moral-superhero of a CEO will get most of the fruits of the labor, and move on to somebody else.
http://momentis.net/ . Their website is, of course, more about the "opportunity" than the products being marketed.
I want to just teach them to go thrifting and get an eBay account.
OMG, I got talked into a company exactly like this a few years ago (although I'm completely blanking on the name of it) and they said the EXACT same things! It was a tech company and instead of selling physical stuff you were trying to get all your friends to sign up for cell/tv/internet/electricity/ etc... through you and then each month when they paid their bills you got paid. It was supposed to be this big incredible opportunity (especially the electricity portion of it) because it was services that everyone uses and you're just using that as an opportunity to get paid. Sounded perfect but It turned out to be the most obnoxious thing of my life.
First, when I signed up I was VERY strict and said I would NOT do it if I had to bug friends and family. That I wanted opportunities to sell elsewhere and I would NOT host crap or bug friends and family. They told me absolutely no problem they had lots of ways to help teach you how to pick up customers outside of friends and family and that they would do that for me.
Day 1 I'm getting bugged about hosting crap and selling to friends and family. They even went beyond that and tried to get me to send them a list of all my friend's and families phone numbers and they were relentless! They wouldn't stop! They talked down to me like I was some sort of a child. Within like a week I regretted everything and just wanted out desperately. I quite speaking to them all together because they wouldn't leave me alone. I was mad. I spend a good couple hundred just to get in and get started. It was awful and I will never do it again!
That sounds like exactly the same thing that my cousins are doing. Fortunately, it seems that they have not had as extreme of an experience. He told me he has very mixed feelings about pushing it on his family and friends and that he only ever brings it up once and shuts his mouth. I haven't heard about them alienating anyone yet, so hopefully it stays that way.
I just wish people knew how many opportunities there are to start legitimate side businesses instead of getting into this stuff.
One of my friends got into this - can't remember the company though. I went to a meeting. I really don't have time for/ am not interested in it, but it was intriguing. The point of the company is to get people on electric, water, cell, cable, etc - but on cheaper plans. So, kind of like Republic wireless and the like.
What appealed to me, philosophically, was saving people money - people who are too lazy to go through the work themselves. But of course, no time so I didn't bother. And my friend, who was starting it, looked at my monthly expenses and of course they couldn't save me any money.
Around here it was new and everyone was asking about cell phones. The big wig was telling us to "not worry about specific parts, look at the whole". I said "look man, this is So. Cal. Nobody uses electric - no AC, not a lot of gas, but man, people will pay their cell phone bill before anything else. " Of course the cell phone plan was with a carrier that doesn't have great coverage in our area.
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One of my friends got into this - can't remember the company though. I went to a meeting. I really don't have time for/ am not interested in it, but it was intriguing. The point of the company is to get people on electric, water, cell, cable, etc - but on cheaper plans. So, kind of like Republic wireless and the like.
What appealed to me, philosophically, was saving people money - people who are too lazy to go through the work themselves. But of course, no time so I didn't bother. And my friend, who was starting it, looked at my monthly expenses and of course they couldn't save me any money.
Around here it was new and everyone was asking about cell phones. The big wig was telling us to "not worry about specific parts, look at the whole". I said "look man, this is So. Cal. Nobody uses electric - no AC, not a lot of gas, but man, people will pay their cell phone bill before anything else. " Of course the cell phone plan was with a carrier that doesn't have great coverage in our area.
It sounds like ACN. My mom just asked for my advice on it, and was wondering if it was a good path to FIRE (told her saving was a better path). Interesting business plan, but the lower level folks aren't the ones who benefit.
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I was a little thrown just now when the Jamberry FB friend was "feeling thankful" because her monthly bonus check from the MLM was going to be enough to enable her to pay cash for a furnace "instead of putting it on a credit card."
Is that even possible? Also, she went to an executive retreat in Utah earlier in the month. Would that be all expenses paid?
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Today I made a FB post asking for gardening book recommendations.
I got a very spammy reply about some Juice Plus thing I needed to buy in order to have a garden. At first I thought my friend's FB had been hacked but then realized she had actually typed it herself, complete with affiliate link (how convenient!).
I know this person and she is very bright and well-educated. Hopefully she will realize how silly she sounds soon.
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Today I made a FB post asking for gardening book recommendations.
I got a very spammy reply about some Juice Plus thing I needed to buy in order to have a garden. At first I thought my friend's FB had been hacked but then realized she had actually typed it herself, complete with affiliate link (how convenient!).
I know this person and she is very bright and well-educated. Hopefully she will realize how silly she sounds soon.
If i were you, I'd reply with "hey, x, i think you might have been hacked by a spammer."
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One of my friends got into this - can't remember the company though. I went to a meeting. I really don't have time for/ am not interested in it, but it was intriguing. The point of the company is to get people on electric, water, cell, cable, etc - but on cheaper plans. So, kind of like Republic wireless and the like.
What appealed to me, philosophically, was saving people money - people who are too lazy to go through the work themselves. But of course, no time so I didn't bother. And my friend, who was starting it, looked at my monthly expenses and of course they couldn't save me any money.
Around here it was new and everyone was asking about cell phones. The big wig was telling us to "not worry about specific parts, look at the whole". I said "look man, this is So. Cal. Nobody uses electric - no AC, not a lot of gas, but man, people will pay their cell phone bill before anything else. " Of course the cell phone plan was with a carrier that doesn't have great coverage in our area.
It sounds like ACN. My mom just asked for my advice on it, and was wondering if it was a good path to FIRE (told her saving was a better path). Interesting business plan, but the lower level folks aren't the ones who benefit.
Yes, that's it! My friend started on it because they haven't really hit our market yet. So she could stand to make money, but only if she gets people under her, and they get people under her, etc.
Like I said, it is a great way to save people money - my husband and I have cut each of our bills one by one over years. This is "simpler". But I find my local friends to be very skeptical of everything new. Even cell phones, they are shocked that I have a pre-paid plan.
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I'm still trying to pick my jaw up off the floor on this one. Another Jamberry nails story, only this time it's another FB friend and involves a kids' birthday party.
My boys weren't invited (gee, I wonder why?? :)), but I nonetheless received an invitation on Facebook this morning for a Jamberry afterparty: "Thanks to everyone who was able to make it to [the child's] birthday party! For friends and family that weren't there and for the attendees that just want to learn a little more about Jamberry wraps and possibly win some free stuff, the [redacted] family is going to keep the party going this week. Be sure to click on "join" so that you get the updates and don't miss any FREEBIES! I'm happy to answer any questions you might have about the wraps. Again, this will all be ONLINE, so feel free to shop at anytime to help earn [the birthday girl] more hostess rewards and to try them out for yourself."
So basically the parents of this girl let another person use her birthday party as a sales opportunity. If that wasn't tacky enough, they are sending out to everyone they know an invitation to spend money so that the birthday girl can get more MLM product. MLM. oh my, indeed!
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Really good article on how MLMs target young people. (https://www.truthinadvertising.org/college-student-recruited-questionable-mlm/)
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MLMs are everywhere.
A few months ago, our helper talked about how many of her neighbors were getting into this cleaning products selling business. As she continued with the story I realized it was an MLM. In retrospect, I should have kept my mouth shut to see where she was going. It seemed she might have been trying to recruit me. But I didn't let her get that far. I cut in, "That's a bullshit scam, you know that right? It's a pyramid scheme. I wouldn't go anywhere near that."
After making my position very clear, her story took on the overall theme of agreeing with me - how her neighbors were being duped. I hope she didn't get caught up in it. I haven't heard a word about it since.
Sigh.
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You ever have a one time acquantance call you up out of the blue that you haven't heard from in years who pretends to want to chat up old times for 10 minutes, but then switches to the pitch? Annoying. At least be honest and start the pitch at the beginning and stop wasting my time.
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My sister just texted to try to get me to buy some products from her skincare MLM. (And in typical sister-fashion, included the fact that "now I am entering my 30s" I may need to pay more attention to this sort of thing.....yeesh.)
Anyway, though, for real: Should I buy some just to be polite? I am so so so incredibly uninterested in this thing. But my sister has been unemployed for quite a while, so this is her only source of income. I have been quietly judging her from afar for her dragging her feet to find a new job (while trying so hard to remain supportive in nature). I know there aren't many professional jobs in her area, but work at a Starbucks, do something! But she does have kids at home, and I don't, and I don't know how hard it might be to make a work schedule work around kids school or whatever.
She'd never take money from me, and has two sets of parents who do help her, so my understand she is more or less doing okay. But we both know I make much much more money from her. Am I obligated to buy some products just to provide some financial support? I'm REALLY not into...products.
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My sister just texted to try to get me to buy some products from her skincare MLM. (And in typical sister-fashion, included the fact that "now I am entering my 30s" I may need to pay more attention to this sort of thing.....yeesh.)
Anyway, though, for real: Should I buy some just to be polite? I am so so so incredibly uninterested in this thing. But my sister has been unemployed for quite a while, so this is her only source of income. I have been quietly judging her from afar for her dragging her feet to find a new job (while trying so hard to remain supportive in nature). I know there aren't many professional jobs in her area, but work at a Starbucks, do something! But she does have kids at home, and I don't, and I don't know how hard it might be to make a work schedule work around kids school or whatever.
She'd never take money from me, and has two sets of parents who do help her, so my understand she is more or less doing okay. But we both know I make much much more money from her. Am I obligated to buy some products just to provide some financial support? I'm REALLY not into...products.
Do Never Buy. It would support the idea that this is a viable business proposition. You can't lead her on like that.
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I was a little thrown just now when the Jamberry FB friend was "feeling thankful" because her monthly bonus check from the MLM was going to be enough to enable her to pay cash for a furnace "instead of putting it on a credit card."
Is that even possible? Also, she went to an executive retreat in Utah earlier in the month. Would that be all expenses paid?
As to your first question, I am always highly suspect whenever someone involved in an MLM makes any comments about how much money they're earning. They are trained to overstate their earnings to trick their friends into becoming sales people. I would be willing to bet that what she really meant was that her monthly bonus check was some amount that, combined with money she had already set aside, enabled her to pay cash for a furnace. She may have had $1500 saved up for the new furnace, and that extra $50 bonus check made all the difference!
And I would guess that absolutely zero expenses were paid for her executive retreat.
The only other possibility is that she's one of the <1% of MLMers who are actually making money doing it. In that case she'd be some hot shot motivational speaker within the company and was probably leading sessions at the executive retreat.
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My sister just texted to try to get me to buy some products from her skincare MLM. (And in typical sister-fashion, included the fact that "now I am entering my 30s" I may need to pay more attention to this sort of thing.....yeesh.)
Anyway, though, for real: Should I buy some just to be polite? I am so so so incredibly uninterested in this thing. But my sister has been unemployed for quite a while, so this is her only source of income. I have been quietly judging her from afar for her dragging her feet to find a new job (while trying so hard to remain supportive in nature). I know there aren't many professional jobs in her area, but work at a Starbucks, do something! But she does have kids at home, and I don't, and I don't know how hard it might be to make a work schedule work around kids school or whatever.
She'd never take money from me, and has two sets of parents who do help her, so my understand she is more or less doing okay. But we both know I make much much more money from her. Am I obligated to buy some products just to provide some financial support? I'm REALLY not into...products.
I'd stay away from buying... maybe tell her your current skincare regimen is working well and you bought a 2 years supply from Costco by accident.
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My sister just texted to try to get me to buy some products from her skincare MLM. (And in typical sister-fashion, included the fact that "now I am entering my 30s" I may need to pay more attention to this sort of thing.....yeesh.)
Anyway, though, for real: Should I buy some just to be polite? I am so so so incredibly uninterested in this thing. But my sister has been unemployed for quite a while, so this is her only source of income. I have been quietly judging her from afar for her dragging her feet to find a new job (while trying so hard to remain supportive in nature). I know there aren't many professional jobs in her area, but work at a Starbucks, do something! But she does have kids at home, and I don't, and I don't know how hard it might be to make a work schedule work around kids school or whatever.
She'd never take money from me, and has two sets of parents who do help her, so my understand she is more or less doing okay. But we both know I make much much more money from her. Am I obligated to buy some products just to provide some financial support? I'm REALLY not into...products.
No.
I have 3 friends who sell skincare stuff. They all really believe in their stuff, show the results, etc.
It looks good, sounds good.
But you know, I'm 44. I'm ok with looking 44. I don't need to look 30, and I'm too lazy to have a "regimen". (My skincare "regimen", is that I scrub my face with water in the shower in the morning).
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Let's start an MMM MLM. I'll start. Everyone send me $20 and I'll give you more details.
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Let's start an MMM MLM. I'll start. Everyone send me $20 and I'll give you more details.
I was just thinking this morning that MMM offering to sell franchises in an MLM frugality advisement pyramid scheme would be a great April Fools joke.
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Most of my friends in the Bay Area are busy with their full-time jobs and can't bother selling things to their friends.
That, and the "earn $1000 a week!" falls flat to people already earning 3-5x that.
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I was just invited to an MLM party via FB. I went to decline the invitation and noticed that it's an internet party. Yep! I can click through a link to buy nail wraps. Um. No.
I read this a few days ago and was surprised that online "parties" even existed. Then, yesterday I got an invite to an online "party" "hosted" by my SIL. Great... It's also for the nail stickers. Because I just love shelling out $15 for a set of overly complex, obviously fake-looking beauty products. Sorry. Rant over.
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It's like a viral infection, spreading across everyone's social landscapes. The latest one I saw was a Jamberry one lately for nail crap.
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At an old job, there was a co-worker who put some kind of make-up MLM's catalogs in the Ladies rooms - in the stalls. Nowhere on or in the catalog did it say her name or contact info, so I would toss them into the trash when I saw them. Funny enough, they kept re-appearing in the stalls every week. I think it's just absurd and pushy. Everyone working in that building was a desk-worker making at least $50K starting. Most of the women are older and have been with the company for over a decade (meaning lots of raises since hire). Also, I rarely ran into a female employee that was not so jaded with their prolonged stay at the company as to be incredibly rude to me.
TLDR; well-paid woman spamming bathroom stalls with MLM catalogs.