MLM - Amway & Wallstreet Journal

[Mike Key]

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204062704577223302734609434.html


As the economy gets worse that business will only continue to grow as it takes advantage of the hopes and needs of more and more desperate people. The real vampire is though isn't Amway itself but the hidden tools and training systems people get plugged into. I've written myself in length about the Tools & Training after wasting a few years of my twenties in this particular MLM.

I'm pretty convinced now that any MLM is pretty Antimustachian. However, maybe starting your own isn't? Money to be made at the top.

[FrugalToque]

"I'm pretty convinced now that any MLM is pretty Antimustachian.  However, maybe starting your own isn't? Money to be made at the top."

Your first instinct was right.  Pyramid-type schemes, even where they're tied to a product or a line of products, would be un-Mustachian.  Until we've laid out a set of criteria for defining "Mustachian", however, we'll have to work from first principles.

Sustainability is an important value.

MLMs aren't sustainable.  As you said, it's great at the top, but eventually it weakens and people at the bottom get nothing in exchange for a lot of work.  A Mustachian business would want to reward any partners or employees with fair value for their labour and financial risk.

I don't think a Mustachian would feel good knowing that his or her employees won't be getting fair value for their labour, which is the inevitable consequence of an MLM.

[arebelspy]

Well put, FrugalToque.

I saw the thread and refrained from commenting because I didn't want to sound too negative, but you summed up my feelings perfectly, and more eloquently than I would have.

If one succeeds at MLM, I feel like they could succeed at any sales type job without having to take advantage of people, as they are likely a good salesman, have good networking skills, etc.

[MMM]

I'd also like to point out the strange phrase that Mike used, "As the economy gets worse".

Are you already forecasting the next recession? Because in the United States where you and I both live, the economy has been getting BETTER for about the last 2.75 years when the 2008-2009 recession ended, and all calls are for continued growth for the immediately foreseeable future.

GDP has gone back to setting all-time records for a good portion of the time since the recession ended. And although unemployment in most sectors is still above the average by US standards, it has remained low by world standards even throught the pit of the recession.

I just like to point this out occasionally, since many of the less intelligent mainstream news sources still like to talk about "the bad economy"... despite the fact that the current economic recovery is much better than most economists feared at the height of the great financial crisis.

http://www.economist.com/node/15911334

[Mike Key]

I'd also like to point out the strange phrase that Mike used, "As the economy gets worse".

Are you already forecasting the next recession? Because in the United States where you and I both live, the economy has been getting BETTER for about the last 2.75 years when the 2008-2009 recession ended, and all calls are for continued growth for the immediately foreseeable future.

GDP has gone back to setting all-time records for a good portion of the time since the recession ended. And although unemployment in most sectors is still above the average by US standards, it has remained low by world standards even throught the pit of the recession.

I just like to point this out occasionally, since many of the less intelligent mainstream news sources still like to talk about "the bad economy"... despite the fact that the current economic recovery is much better than most economists feared at the height of the great financial crisis.

http://www.economist.com/node/15911334

Good point, and you caught me.

I am aware that things have been getting better, but you also pointed out the perspective. I know more and more people who are out of work and struggling and who don't see the effects of improved economy. And the mainstream news and even the pundits right now will beat this drum into the next election. Especially concerning DEBT.

My point in that statement was really to say, so long as the national mood (I suppose you could call it) or national attitude is that the economy is bad, then I feel that the potential for these systems to recruit new people remains high.

Education is truly the key to your perspective on the world. And while numbers and graphs might paint one picture, people might not feel the way your picture suggests they feel.

GDP growth may be up, but Debt to GDP is insanely high. GDP for the end of 2011 was $15.087 trillion with total public debt outstanding at a ratio of 101.8% of GDP, and debt held by the public at 70.1% of GDP. Let's not forget our own lovely government just pretends all it's unfunded obligations don't exist when presenting numbers. Total outstanding public debt: $15,391,735,627,010.18

But we could go back and forth here. The average person can't make heads or tails. This is how precious metals only people are able to present half the facts about our currency and make people worry the dollar will collapse "because they print money" while completely ignoring how the base money supply system works and how the government actually loans itself money and uses inflation to keep the debt away from it's own spending.

I like Ron Paul, but he only every brings attention to our debt and every broken thing. And A LOT OF PEOPLE listen to him. And this is pretty much like I said above. The back and forth that happens in national news. And average Joe doesn't read, research or seek answers for himself. So he feels bad and mad at the economy. (Because that's how they told him to feel, so he can vote accordingly)

Sigh, this is why we don't have cable.

My sources: http://www.treasurydirect.gov/NP/BPDLogin?application=np
US Department of Commerce, Bureau of Economic Analysis. "National Economic Accounts: Gross Domestic Product: Current-dollar and 'real' GDP". BEA.gov. Jan 27, 2012. http://www.bea.gov/national/xls/gdplev.xls