Author Topic: Millennials Are Starting to Change the Market  (Read 16487 times)

sparky28

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Millennials Are Starting to Change the Market
« on: February 01, 2016, 07:45:02 AM »
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-02-01/millennial-splurge-on-lifegoals-giving-leisure-stocks-a-boost


"“I’m not saving up to buy anything,” said the 28-year-old engineer, who shares a rented apartment with two flatmates in south London. “I prefer to go out for dinner at a nice place, pay a round at the pub or explore a new area of the world. I feel like I would be losing out on living if I chose to own stuff instead.”"

How are food, drinks and travel not buying anything?

I'm not sure if this is actually an anti-mustachian sentiment, since it goes on to mention:
“It’s now experiences that people are short on, not items,” says Oswald, whose research focuses on what he calls the economics of happiness.

Too bad that they're still associating spending money with good experiences.

zephyr911

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Re: Millennials Are Starting to Change the Market
« Reply #1 on: February 01, 2016, 09:42:00 AM »
You can associate spending with cool experiences and not blow all your money on all the experiences you want RIGHT NOW. I'm very much spending-experience-oriented, but I'm putting most of my pay into investments that will pay for much higher quality and quantity of future experiences than the money would today.

MgoSam

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Re: Millennials Are Starting to Change the Market
« Reply #2 on: February 01, 2016, 09:48:17 AM »
Just like a decade ago the common mentality was to "follow your dreams," I feel like this decade it's to "spend money on experiences, not things."

As a 28 year old, I really don't know what that really means, but as with most things, if I don't understand something I avoid it.

JLee

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Re: Millennials Are Starting to Change the Market
« Reply #3 on: February 01, 2016, 09:51:24 AM »
Just like a decade ago the common mentality was to "follow your dreams," I feel like this decade it's to "spend money on experiences, not things."

As a 28 year old, I really don't know what that really means, but as with most things, if I don't understand something I avoid it.
It means exactly what it says.

I don't think this is a bad thing. I'd rather see people spending money on exploring the world and doing stuff than collecting piles of future garbage.

Making Cookies

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Re: Millennials Are Starting to Change the Market
« Reply #4 on: February 01, 2016, 02:31:28 PM »
Maybe these millennials have been forced into these choices b/c they can't afford a house of their own and therefore find themselves buying what they can afford now?

Don't get me wrong - spend it however makes you happy.

MgoSam

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Re: Millennials Are Starting to Change the Market
« Reply #5 on: February 01, 2016, 02:35:33 PM »
I'd rather see people spending money on exploring the world and doing stuff than collecting piles of future garbage.

Yeah, that's not a problem either. It's more that people tend to be doing things like going out for coffee or to a bar and call it an "experience." Either way, how people spend their money is their business, not mine, so it's no skin off my back.

Zikoris

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Re: Millennials Are Starting to Change the Market
« Reply #6 on: February 01, 2016, 04:27:09 PM »
I'm a huge fan of experiences, especially travel and outdoor activities. Just got back from an awesome trip to Taiwan, Singapore, and Malaysia, and I'm throwing around ideas for my next couple of getaways already. But the correct system is to do that and also save at least half your income.

GetItRight

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Re: Millennials Are Starting to Change the Market
« Reply #7 on: February 01, 2016, 06:14:28 PM »
"“I’m not saving up to buy anything,” said the 28-year-old engineer, who shares a rented apartment with two flatmates in south London. “I prefer to go out for dinner at a nice place, pay a round at the pub or explore a new area of the world. I feel like I would be losing out on living if I chose to own stuff instead.”"

How are food, drinks and travel not buying anything?

It's renting. Personally I prefer to buy things rather than rent drinks at bars or travel extravagantly, but I'm probably a lot more frugal and put put a lot more consideration into what I buy than most millenials. I buy things that facilitate experiences and I use frequently (boat, motorcycle), things that provide great experiences every week or every day. For mundane items like clothes, cookware, utensils, etc. I tend towards quality and functionality over disposable, and probably put a ridiculous amount of thought into each purchase but I don't like buying things twice or wasting space on unnecessary stuff.

Troy McClure

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Re: Millennials Are Starting to Change the Market
« Reply #8 on: February 01, 2016, 07:39:26 PM »
Just like a decade ago the common mentality was to "follow your dreams," I feel like this decade it's to "spend money on experiences, not things."

As a 28 year old, I really don't know what that really means, but as with most things, if I don't understand something I avoid it.
It means exactly what it says.

I don't think this is a bad thing. I'd rather see people spending money on exploring the world and doing stuff than collecting piles of future garbage.


This idea always gets me thinking of the video linked below w/ Rory Sutherland.
Quote
Intangible value -- you might call it perceived value, you might call it badge value, subjective value, intangible value of some kind -- gets rather a bad rap. If you think about it, if you want to live in a world in the future where there are fewer material goods, you basically have two choices. You can either live in a world which is poorer, which people in general don't like. Or you can live in a world where actually intangible value constitutes a greater part of overall value, that actually intangible value, in many ways is a very, very fine substitute for using up labor or limited resources in the creation of things.

https://www.ted.com/talks/rory_sutherland_life_lessons_from_an_ad_man?language=en#t-38150

FINate

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Re: Millennials Are Starting to Change the Market
« Reply #9 on: February 01, 2016, 07:56:09 PM »
I liked this gem:

Quote
“People want to buy happiness,” Huang said at a London cafe in January. “An experience is unique because it gives them that in three stages: the anticipation, the event itself, and the memories after. Not only does that final stage last forever, but you can also share it.”

I applaud them for not filling the landfills with cheap crap from China, but let's be honest, you can't buy happiness. If that's your mindset (marketers love to get us thinking this way) then you're always going to be struggling financially.

TheGrimSqueaker

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Re: Millennials Are Starting to Change the Market
« Reply #10 on: February 01, 2016, 08:09:12 PM »
I liked this gem:

Quote
“People want to buy happiness,” Huang said at a London cafe in January. “An experience is unique because it gives them that in three stages: the anticipation, the event itself, and the memories after. Not only does that final stage last forever, but you can also share it.”

I applaud them for not filling the landfills with cheap crap from China, but let's be honest, you can't buy happiness. If that's your mindset (marketers love to get us thinking this way) then you're always going to be struggling financially.

Why buy happiness when the marketers have us convinced it's better to rent it?

FINate

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Re: Millennials Are Starting to Change the Market
« Reply #11 on: February 01, 2016, 09:14:57 PM »
I liked this gem:

Quote
“People want to buy happiness,” Huang said at a London cafe in January. “An experience is unique because it gives them that in three stages: the anticipation, the event itself, and the memories after. Not only does that final stage last forever, but you can also share it.”

I applaud them for not filling the landfills with cheap crap from China, but let's be honest, you can't buy happiness. If that's your mindset (marketers love to get us thinking this way) then you're always going to be struggling financially.

Why buy happiness when the marketers have us convinced it's better to rent it?

Buy, rent...two sides of same coin of consumption. The great irony is that spending heavily to attain happiness makes people *less* happy in the long run since it increases stress and insecurity, and crowds out meaningful relationships. No doubt the marketing folks exploit this.

Ryo

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Re: Millennials Are Starting to Change the Market
« Reply #12 on: February 02, 2016, 02:21:11 AM »
There's no doubt that many of these "experience seekers" have bought into slick and/or subtle marketing without fully realizing it, but overall, I consider this type of consumption to be better than the traditional "buying stuff" type of consumption. Reducing waste and (hopefully) broadening the horizons of people (by getting them to meet people or got to places they otherwise wouldn't have) isa good thing, all things considered. 

sirdoug007

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Re: Millennials Are Starting to Change the Market
« Reply #13 on: February 02, 2016, 05:13:27 AM »
It's all about sharing alright, on Facebook/Instagram/Snapchat/etc.

Buy a new TV = nobody cares.

Go on a trip to a resort/concert/exclusive restaurant = all your friends are jealous and pat your back through your social networks.


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HairyUpperLip

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Re: Millennials Are Starting to Change the Market
« Reply #14 on: February 02, 2016, 06:17:17 AM »
Someone in a group chat of mine said that he'd seen people posting -

401k followers or 401k? you decide.

:(

onlykelsey

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Re: Millennials Are Starting to Change the Market
« Reply #15 on: February 02, 2016, 06:42:19 AM »
Quote
Someone in a group chat of mine said that he'd seen people posting -

401k followers or 401k? you decide.

:(

What?  How are those even related?

LouLou

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Re: Millennials Are Starting to Change the Market
« Reply #16 on: February 02, 2016, 08:14:35 AM »
I don't think this represents a substantial change at all.  Generations of Americans have put spending on current wants over long term financial planning.  The focus on the spending is changing (exotic vacation instead of new car), but the underlying behavior seems exactly the same.

onlykelsey

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Re: Millennials Are Starting to Change the Market
« Reply #17 on: February 02, 2016, 08:19:52 AM »
Quote
I don't think this represents a substantial change at all.  Generations of Americans have put spending on current wants over long term financial planning.  The focus on the spending is changing (exotic vacation instead of new car), but the underlying behavior seems exactly the same.

Maybe I'm revealing my status as a millennial, but I actually think this shift in focus is an improvement.  Even if it's the same amount of spending, spending on travel or a class is more likely to broaden your horizons, less likely to fill a landfill with crap, and less likely to lock you in to a lifestyle of paying to maintain a bunch of expensive belongings.

That said, i really hate those student loan refi ads that are like "The average student saves 14K when they refinance with us.  What would you do with 14K?!" with a picture of a 25 year old on a luxury Caribbean vacation.  You know what you do with 14K in saved interest? Invest or pay down the principal!!!!!!

cube.37

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Re: Millennials Are Starting to Change the Market
« Reply #18 on: February 02, 2016, 08:57:58 AM »
Quote
Someone in a group chat of mine said that he'd seen people posting -

401k followers or 401k? you decide.

:(

What?  How are those even related?

I think they're saying that rather than save the money in a 401k, they'd prefer to spend that money on trips/restaurants where they could take pictures and increase the number of followers (instagram, etc) to 401,000.

FINate

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Re: Millennials Are Starting to Change the Market
« Reply #19 on: February 02, 2016, 09:58:03 AM »
Quote
I don't think this represents a substantial change at all.  Generations of Americans have put spending on current wants over long term financial planning.  The focus on the spending is changing (exotic vacation instead of new car), but the underlying behavior seems exactly the same.

Maybe I'm revealing my status as a millennial, but I actually think this shift in focus is an improvement.  Even if it's the same amount of spending, spending on travel or a class is more likely to broaden your horizons, less likely to fill a landfill with crap, and less likely to lock you in to a lifestyle of paying to maintain a bunch of expensive belongings.

That said, i really hate those student loan refi ads that are like "The average student saves 14K when they refinance with us.  What would you do with 14K?!" with a picture of a 25 year old on a luxury Caribbean vacation.  You know what you do with 14K in saved interest? Invest or pay down the principal!!!!!!

The improvement is marginal at best. Like the generations before them, millennials are spending all their money (and more) on things they can't really afford rather than saving, investing, and paying off debt. Sure, they are focused on buying "experiences" rather than new cars and homes, but as far as I can tell, this translates to food, booze, and expensive trips for most people. The emphasis on sharing their experiences on social media is how they broadcast status, and projecting a lavish/cool online image has become the new "keeping up with the Joneses."

GrumpyPenguin

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Re: Millennials Are Starting to Change the Market
« Reply #20 on: February 02, 2016, 11:23:14 AM »
I think this article is a bit confused.  It seems to confuse and intermingle arguments of buying experiences vs. buying things and spending vs. saving.  Happiness maximization supposedly supports choosing experiences over things, and as long as folks do that more, sure, stocks are likely to reflect that.  However if people are changing their spending vs. savings, then we'd expect a different stock market reaction... though it appears the article does not focus on this reaction at all. Anyway, author seems confused.

Also, FYI, the article is pretty funny if you have the snake people plug-in installed: https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/millennials-to-snake-peop/jhkibealmjkbkafogihpeidfcgnigmlf

« Last Edit: February 02, 2016, 11:25:01 AM by Alexander0405 »

nobodyspecial

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Re: Millennials Are Starting to Change the Market
« Reply #21 on: February 02, 2016, 09:15:29 PM »
It makes a sort of sense.
You live in London, or New York or SF or Vancouver, so you can't buy a house unless your friend Mr Putin gave you the state gas company.
You don't have a car because you live in the city, an iPhone or a macBook isn't a big deal - what else do you spend your salary on?

Assuming somebody hasn't told you that you can save it and retire at 30 !
 

FINate

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Re: Millennials Are Starting to Change the Market
« Reply #22 on: February 02, 2016, 11:31:10 PM »
It makes a sort of sense.
You live in London, or New York or SF or Vancouver, so you can't buy a house unless your friend Mr Putin gave you the state gas company.
You don't have a car because you live in the city, an iPhone or a macBook isn't a big deal - what else do you spend your salary on?

That's the funny thing about living in a HCOL area - you can't save up enough for a down payment on a house until, you know...you actually start saving money :) It's hard and it may take longer than other areas, but I know plenty of people of modest means who worked hard, saved aggressively and were able to eventually buy in the SF Bay Area. On the other hand, I also know many people with 6 figure incomes who complain about high rents, how they can't save enough for a down payment, bla bla bla, and yet they take expensive trips, frequently eat out, buy new cars, and such.

nobodyspecial

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Re: Millennials Are Starting to Change the Market
« Reply #23 on: February 03, 2016, 09:59:02 AM »
That's the funny thing about living in a HCOL area - you can't save up enough for a down payment on a house until, you know...you actually start saving money :)
I think there is an inflection point - if you are earning average $50K in a city where house prices just hit $1.8M and are rising at 30%/year then you assume you are never going to own there whatever your savings rate.

I imagine that for some cities this was always true, no barrista in Manhattan assumed they had a right to a house on central park. But London used to have expensive fashionable areas, and reasonable and very poor. Now the poor immigrant areas of 20years ago are beyond any realistic salary paying a mortgage. So it's either move to a suburb with a 2hour commute or rent and spend your money on something else.

FINate

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Re: Millennials Are Starting to Change the Market
« Reply #24 on: February 03, 2016, 10:38:20 AM »
I think there is an inflection point - if you are earning average $50K in a city where house prices just hit $1.8M and are rising at 30%/year then you assume you are never going to own there whatever your savings rate.

I imagine that for some cities this was always true, no barrista in Manhattan assumed they had a right to a house on central park. But London used to have expensive fashionable areas, and reasonable and very poor. Now the poor immigrant areas of 20years ago are beyond any realistic salary paying a mortgage. So it's either move to a suburb with a 2hour commute or rent and spend your money on something else.

I see your point and I'm sure that is a big part of the psychology for most people. My point is that millennials don't need to follow the lemmings off the cliff. Even if homeownership seems to move ever further out of sight, keep saving saving saving! Don't blow your hard earned cash on trinkets and creature comforts, and don't fool yourself into believing that this is what makes life meaningful. Spending all of one's disposable income is not a consolation prize, it's stupid. Instead, find joy in relationships, reading, biking, picnics, and other Mustachian activities. You never know when the next dip in property prices will hit, and you want to be ready to strike if/when this happens. And you never know, you may very well decide at some point to pack it up and move to someplace less expensive, and having a big fat wad of cash is a great way to get established.

Also, if you are in a job/profession that does not pay significantly more to be in a HCOL area then you should seriously consider getting out ASAP. I'm not saying this in the spirit of "if you can't afford it, then leave" - it's just that I've witnessed way too many aging hipsters who spent their youth spending every last cent and now they are approaching middle age in a very bad financial situation.

mm1970

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Re: Millennials Are Starting to Change the Market
« Reply #25 on: February 03, 2016, 11:04:16 AM »
It makes a sort of sense.
You live in London, or New York or SF or Vancouver, so you can't buy a house unless your friend Mr Putin gave you the state gas company.
You don't have a car because you live in the city, an iPhone or a macBook isn't a big deal - what else do you spend your salary on?

That's the funny thing about living in a HCOL area - you can't save up enough for a down payment on a house until, you know...you actually start saving money :) It's hard and it may take longer than other areas, but I know plenty of people of modest means who worked hard, saved aggressively and were able to eventually buy in the SF Bay Area. On the other hand, I also know many people with 6 figure incomes who complain about high rents, how they can't save enough for a down payment, bla bla bla, and yet they take expensive trips, frequently eat out, buy new cars, and such.
I used to be amazed at the high end cars in our parking lot.  There weren't many of them (engineers you know).  But, say, there's a luxury BMW SUV.  A friend owns it.  I'd say "well, if you can't afford a house, might as well have a nice car.  Might have to live in it someday."  Except...

Well, my friend is now...I want to say 38.  That car was totaled (long story), but at least it was paid off.  Still renting.  Making a decent salary.  I'd say salary when we met 5 years ago was around $80k, now closer to $120k or $130k.  Plenty of time to save up a down payment, being fully employed from age 23 to 38.  I realize that not everyone wants to own.  By now friend could have a 1BR condo, easily.  Or at least savings.

Contrast to a young kid I hired when he was 23.  He bought a house last year at 27.  It's in the next town over and was "only" about $450k (an equivalent house here would be over $800k).  But he was much more frugal, bringing lunch every day.   True, he lived with his girlfriend and that saved money.

StockBeard

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Re: Millennials Are Starting to Change the Market
« Reply #26 on: February 10, 2016, 07:57:11 PM »
I still feel it's a move in the right direction.

tobitonic

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Re: Millennials Are Starting to Change the Market
« Reply #27 on: February 10, 2016, 08:42:58 PM »
I still feel it's a move in the right direction.

Agreed. Less physical stuff means less physical waste.

zephyr911

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Re: Millennials Are Starting to Change the Market
« Reply #28 on: February 12, 2016, 01:44:03 PM »
I still feel it's a move in the right direction.

Agreed. Less physical stuff means less physical waste.
That, in and of itself, is pretty much a universal positive.

I'm a red panda

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Re: Millennials Are Starting to Change the Market
« Reply #29 on: February 12, 2016, 02:01:27 PM »
Quote
Someone in a group chat of mine said that he'd seen people posting -

401k followers or 401k? you decide.

:(

What?  How are those even related?

I think they're saying that rather than save the money in a 401k, they'd prefer to spend that money on trips/restaurants where they could take pictures and increase the number of followers (instagram, etc) to 401,000.

Depends- have they managed to monetize the account such that they make a good living?  In that case I can see it as "self employed" vs. "working for the man" (aka- a company that provides a 401k).

A friend of mine makes about $85k pre-tax due to her blog (sponsored posts, affiliate links, etc).  She only has 4,077 followers on instagram.  401k follower? You could be making a shit-ton.


Zikoris

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Re: Millennials Are Starting to Change the Market
« Reply #30 on: February 12, 2016, 09:43:42 PM »
One thing I find kind of interesting is how my generation is moving away from car ownership. TONS of my peers have no car or desire to buy one. It will be interesting to see how that affects the car industry over the next 10-15 years.

FINate

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Re: Millennials Are Starting to Change the Market
« Reply #31 on: February 13, 2016, 12:43:30 AM »
One thing I find kind of interesting is how my generation is moving away from car ownership. TONS of my peers have no car or desire to buy one. It will be interesting to see how that affects the car industry over the next 10-15 years.

The tipping point will be when self driving cars go mainstream. Electric + self driving + Uber-like service will slaughter the car industry. This would allow most people to live without a car, or very easily cut back to a single car just for special uses like hauling or long trips.

pancakes

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Re: Millennials Are Starting to Change the Market
« Reply #32 on: February 13, 2016, 01:02:49 AM »
The car thing seems to be very location dependant. I've lived in places where none of my social group (ages 25-35) have owned a car but where I live now I'm alone in not owning one.

I'm a red panda

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Re: Millennials Are Starting to Change the Market
« Reply #33 on: February 13, 2016, 09:56:46 AM »
The car thing seems to be very location dependant. I've lived in places where none of my social group (ages 25-35) have owned a car but where I live now I'm alone in not owning one.

It would be extremely unusual here to not own a car.  There is almost no public transportation available.
Even teenagers have their own cars.

ender

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Re: Millennials Are Starting to Change the Market
« Reply #34 on: February 13, 2016, 10:04:12 AM »
I still feel it's a move in the right direction.

Agreed. Less physical stuff means less physical waste.

Well, this is assuming that spending money on activities instead of possessions is actually a net positive for overall physical waste. Travel, eating out, and other experiences do not directly map to lower or zero waste.

Perhaps there is less obvious physical waste, but I would be somewhat surprised if most of these experiences actually reduce the total volume of waste created in the world meaningfully.

Quote
One thing I find kind of interesting is how my generation is moving away from car ownership. TONS of my peers have no car or desire to buy one. It will be interesting to see how that affects the car industry over the next 10-15 years.

This is entirely dependent on location. It works in bigger cities, or areas with more comprehensive mass transit. Many areas this is not economically viable.

Zikoris

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Re: Millennials Are Starting to Change the Market
« Reply #35 on: February 13, 2016, 10:39:49 AM »
The car thing seems to be very location dependant. I've lived in places where none of my social group (ages 25-35) have owned a car but where I live now I'm alone in not owning one.

To my understanding, millenials also lean way more heavily towards living in the major urban centers and the lifestyle that goes along with it, so among the group as a whole, the urban cyclists and bus riders would presumably outnumber the rural truck drivers.

bacchi

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Re: Millennials Are Starting to Change the Market
« Reply #36 on: February 13, 2016, 01:05:16 PM »
The car thing seems to be very location dependant. I've lived in places where none of my social group (ages 25-35) have owned a car but where I live now I'm alone in not owning one.

To my understanding, millenials also lean way more heavily towards living in the major urban centers and the lifestyle that goes along with it, so among the group as a whole, the urban cyclists and bus riders would presumably outnumber the rural truck drivers.

It's spreading.

http://www.npr.org/2016/02/11/466178523/like-millennials-more-older-americans-steering-away-from-driving

That's great news but there is a limit -- urban housing is increasing in value more rapidly than wages are increasing. We need more walkable edge cities.

Making Cookies

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Re: Millennials Are Starting to Change the Market
« Reply #37 on: February 13, 2016, 09:53:17 PM »
The car thing seems to be very location dependant. I've lived in places where none of my social group (ages 25-35) have owned a car but where I live now I'm alone in not owning one.

It would be extremely unusual here to not own a car.  There is almost no public transportation available.
Even teenagers have their own cars.

Same where we live. We'll be letting our teen borrow one of the family cars for a while to reduce the total cost of transportation for our family. Teen only "needs" wheels occasionally, not every day. From my POV he is currently unemployed (not officially old enough to have a reg job) and thus can't afford to drive willy-nilly. ;)

pancakes

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Re: Millennials Are Starting to Change the Market
« Reply #38 on: February 13, 2016, 11:11:42 PM »
The car thing seems to be very location dependant. I've lived in places where none of my social group (ages 25-35) have owned a car but where I live now I'm alone in not owning one.

It would be extremely unusual here to not own a car.  There is almost no public transportation available.
Even teenagers have their own cars.
I've never owned a car though my husband has one now. When I was 17/18 it was unusual but I wasn't alone. We didn't have amazing public transport but it wasn't terrible either and the traffic was always pretty bad and car parking expensive so it seemed like six of one and half a dozen of the other. Cars were expensive and I didn't want to buy one only to spend the same as my bus/train ticket keeping it on the road.

By the time I was early 20's lots of people had abandoned their cars. Most of my friends were like me and lived in share accomodation close to the city where we worked or studied so there was no need.

I moved a few years ago to another city and it is unheard of here not to have a car. It is interesting to me as the pubic transport system here is about the same in terms of quality but half the price of where I used to live. Traffic is terrible and I constantly hear people complaining about parking.

The thing I hear most when people learn that I don't drive anywhere is that they'd be giving up their freedom if they gave up their car. I very much see it the other way. If when I left my home I jumped in a car instead of walking or taking the train, I'd be living in a bubble and never engage with my community or end up paying to feel that connection.

SondraF

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Re: Millennials Are Starting to Change the Market
« Reply #39 on: February 14, 2016, 06:54:50 AM »
I think folks have also woken up to the fact that, with living in the tight spaces of these fast growing cities, owning more stuff means you just have to move it later.  Especially in London where your landlord can give you a months notice that they are selling, and there are far fewer renter rights than in the US. I just had a friend and her bf give up a one bedroom flat and move back into a shared house in order to save an extra £600 a month - she spend weekends throwing crap out and was amazed at how much had accumulated.  My idiot millennial neighbors upstairs apparently go out three nights a week, all night (thank god) and probably eat/drink out a ton too.  They are probably saving a little and will get some work experience in the city for a few years before going back to wherever they came from (newcastle, judging by the bellowing in the hall).  So for them, why not do it right and have a good time and all the stories they can tell over the next 30 years about some time or other they got wasted and someone had to pull them out of a gutter?  Finally, I don't think the whole "retire early" movement has really penetrated here, or, like house owning, its something you either cant see yourself achieving or "its for old people!"

Chris22

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Re: Millennials Are Starting to Change the Market
« Reply #40 on: February 14, 2016, 09:12:02 AM »
The car thing seems to be very location dependant. I've lived in places where none of my social group (ages 25-35) have owned a car but where I live now I'm alone in not owning one.

To my understanding, millenials also lean way more heavily towards living in the major urban centers and the lifestyle that goes along with it, so among the group as a whole, the urban cyclists and bus riders would presumably outnumber the rural truck drivers.

Because they're all 18-30. When they start having kids they'll move to the suburbs and buy two cars like everyone else. It's an age thing, not a generation thing. And yes, a few will buck the trend, but overall, the generation won't.

Zikoris

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Re: Millennials Are Starting to Change the Market
« Reply #41 on: February 14, 2016, 11:20:51 AM »
The car thing seems to be very location dependant. I've lived in places where none of my social group (ages 25-35) have owned a car but where I live now I'm alone in not owning one.

To my understanding, millenials also lean way more heavily towards living in the major urban centers and the lifestyle that goes along with it, so among the group as a whole, the urban cyclists and bus riders would presumably outnumber the rural truck drivers.

Because they're all 18-30. When they start having kids they'll move to the suburbs and buy two cars like everyone else. It's an age thing, not a generation thing. And yes, a few will buck the trend, but overall, the generation won't.

That's not the case in Vancouver - the downtown core is getting new elementary schools built because it's one of the biggest growth areas for families. People want to stay in the place that's fun to live. It's a pretty big cultural shift.

Guses

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Re: Millennials Are Starting to Change the Market
« Reply #42 on: February 17, 2016, 02:00:10 PM »
Experiences are like stuff that self dispose at the end. Poof straight to (virtual) garbage.

I am a little weary of the "experiences, not stuff" narrative. Both are exactly the same thing. Pay money for things you want or like.

If I buy an xbox, I will anticipate buying it, enjoy playing it, and have memories of having enjoyed it/playing it with friends. At the end, I end up keeping it, but its otherwise exactly the same.

I think that the narrative I brought up earlier is the only way advertising has found to make spending a fortune on a trip/disassembled dinner/ballroom dancing classes seem like a good idea.

I'd rather buy my freedom and have inexpensive experiences rather than buying overpriced commercial "experiences".
« Last Edit: February 17, 2016, 02:41:39 PM by Guses »

acroy

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Re: Millennials Are Starting to Change the Market
« Reply #43 on: February 17, 2016, 02:16:44 PM »
I am a little weary of the "experiences not stuff" narrative. Both are exactly the same thing. Pay money for things you want or like.

Good post. Same here. Somehow the 'experience' is considered more virtuous. For now.

I'm a red panda

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Re: Millennials Are Starting to Change the Market
« Reply #44 on: February 17, 2016, 02:28:23 PM »

Because they're all 18-30. When they start having kids they'll move to the suburbs and buy two cars like everyone else. It's an age thing, not a generation thing. And yes, a few will buck the trend, but overall, the generation won't.

If you go by the traditional 1982-2004, millenials are 12-34.  I bet those 12 year olds are living wherever their parents make them, and not influencing the market much at all.  :)

aka- I just do not think you can generalize a 20 year age span in any meaningful way.

FINate

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Re: Millennials Are Starting to Change the Market
« Reply #45 on: February 17, 2016, 03:43:39 PM »
I'd rather buy my freedom and have inexpensive experiences rather than buying overpriced commercial "experiences".

Great quote. Ideally millennials would also aspire to this, doesn't look good so far :(

SirOcelot

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Re: Millennials Are Starting to Change the Market
« Reply #46 on: February 18, 2016, 08:17:44 AM »

To my understanding, millenials also lean way more heavily towards living in the major urban centers and the lifestyle that goes along with it, so among the group as a whole, the urban cyclists and bus riders would presumably outnumber the rural truck drivers.

Because they're all 18-30. When they start having kids they'll move to the suburbs and buy two cars like everyone else. It's an age thing, not a generation thing. And yes, a few will buck the trend, but overall, the generation won't.

That's not the case in Vancouver - the downtown core is getting new elementary schools built because it's one of the biggest growth areas for families. People want to stay in the place that's fun to live. It's a pretty big cultural shift.

Obviously there can be regional variance, but the idea that millennials in general have a special preference for urban areas is not well-supported:

http://fivethirtyeight.com/datalab/think-millennials-prefer-the-city-think-again/

My own unsupported hypothesis is that to the limited extent that the phenomenon is real, it's mostly a story about declining urban crime rates and people having children later in life.

Chris22

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Re: Millennials Are Starting to Change the Market
« Reply #47 on: February 18, 2016, 09:45:18 AM »

To my understanding, millenials also lean way more heavily towards living in the major urban centers and the lifestyle that goes along with it, so among the group as a whole, the urban cyclists and bus riders would presumably outnumber the rural truck drivers.

Because they're all 18-30. When they start having kids they'll move to the suburbs and buy two cars like everyone else. It's an age thing, not a generation thing. And yes, a few will buck the trend, but overall, the generation won't.

That's not the case in Vancouver - the downtown core is getting new elementary schools built because it's one of the biggest growth areas for families. People want to stay in the place that's fun to live. It's a pretty big cultural shift.

Obviously there can be regional variance, but the idea that millennials in general have a special preference for urban areas is not well-supported:

http://fivethirtyeight.com/datalab/think-millennials-prefer-the-city-think-again/

My own unsupported hypothesis is that to the limited extent that the phenomenon is real, it's mostly a story about declining urban crime rates and people having children later in life.

That's kind of a silly study though:

Quote
According to U.S. Census Bureau data released this week, 529,000 Americans ages 25 to 29 moved from cities out to the suburbs in 2014; only 426,000 moved in the other direction.

So that tracks movement to/from the city/burbs, but doesn't comment on where they lived to begin with.  In fact, it makes sense, lots of people exit the city when they start getting married or having kids, which generally begins in late 20s.  And few people move into the city at that stage of life.  But if 10M (made up number) millennials LIVED in the city, and 529k moved out to the burbs, even though more moved out than moved in, there's still a shitload IN the city.   

TheAnonOne

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Re: Millennials Are Starting to Change the Market
« Reply #48 on: February 18, 2016, 11:47:05 AM »
I swear I just read a story saying that more millennials are now buying cars, though the initial purchase took a bit later in life due to the whole student loan thing..

If I can find the story.... Ill post it...

bacchi

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Re: Millennials Are Starting to Change the Market
« Reply #49 on: February 18, 2016, 12:08:29 PM »
Experiences are like stuff that self dispose at the end. Poof straight to (virtual) garbage.

I am a little weary of the "experiences, not stuff" narrative. Both are exactly the same thing. Pay money for things you want or like.

If I buy an xbox, I will anticipate buying it, enjoy playing it, and have memories of having enjoyed it/playing it with friends. At the end, I end up keeping it, but its otherwise exactly the same.

I think that the narrative I brought up earlier is the only way advertising has found to make spending a fortune on a trip/disassembled dinner/ballroom dancing classes seem like a good idea.

I'd rather buy my freedom and have inexpensive experiences rather than buying overpriced commercial "experiences".

Anyone can buy an Xbox but have you been to Iceland?!? Have you had a cocktail engineer make you a drink in an exposed brick bar with exposed ductwork and mismatched chairs? Check it out on my instagram, https://www.instagram.com/lookatme/!