The Money Mustache Community
Around the Internet => Antimustachian Wall of Shame and Comedy => Topic started by: cdub on April 05, 2014, 09:36:47 PM
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Don't get me wrong. I LOVE Tesla! And I love their car! But cashing in your retirement or spending your entire salary on a car is just insane.
I love electric cars and own a Leaf which is 100% paid for. ($22k after incentives) I plan to drive it until the wheels fall off and then maybe just maybe if my house is paid off I'll get a used Telsa... 10 years from now.
But the justifications in this thread are sad... and face punch worthy:
http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/25233-Folks-who-stretched-Will-you-do-it-again-given-another-chance-or-regret-buying-Tesla
Ask me in 20 years when I want to retire and am missing that $100k plus interest in my account!
I love my car. I emptied my savings to buy it cash, because I don't believe in financing luxuries. My practical side does regret it sometimes, but I am still happy I got it.
???? Ouch
I stretched a lot when I got my car in January I absolutely love it, but have wondered if buying it was really a good idea.
Mostly because of 4 things:
My wife is no longer working
My wife is now in graduate school
I want a Nokia Lumia 1020
I want an XBox One
You bought a $96k car and now can't afford a $400 game system? Anyone seeing the irony here?
If I had to cut my cable, and couldn't eat lunch out. And had to cut back other places I wouldn't have done it. But giving up a fancy new phone, and an XBox; that I can handle.
And the Model S I bought was almost equal to my yearly income, but we are a two income family. We also, have cut costs in other areas. No cable/dish, changed mobile phone plans, eat out less, etc).
Anyways, I had to make some lifestyle changes (switched from cable to Netflix, rented out a room so lost some privacy).
Rented out a room so he could get a Model S?
I am not rich, and therefore had to pull money from investments to keep the Tesla payment in line with my Ford Flex payment.
Time of purchase approx salary $65K
I stretched. I had to give my Wife the hard sell to do it. Now we are expecting another baby and the stretch is seeming too much. previously i had a $500 PM Payment inc gas. Now I'm at $1000. My wife is having to sacrifice a nice car when her lease runs out in feb so I can keep the Tesla. Would I do it again? … No because It has caused some major arguments . do I love the car? 1000% yes. alas I have to sell it . but Ill be back for another in a couple of years .
Through a sequence of events, I came into about $50k I didn't have before (inheritance and a layoff severance package). The wife and I shrugged, said it wasn't money we'd expected to have anyway, so we went all out on the Model S. She did sort of roll her eyes at my wanting the Perf option
So, I would have gotten the 40 and been quite happy, but ended up with the P85. As it turns out, the car was nearly free. Thanks to having the money in TSLA, I was able to pay off the car and we've got the same extra $50k we originally had... If I hadn't heard of Tesla, the money would have gone into some index fund that wouldn't have made much, relatively speaking.
I'm not wealthy and spending this much on the Model S means significant sacrifices in other parts of my life and impacts the rest of my family. Our vacations will be much smaller, our gift giving more restrained, our savings are noticeably smaller, etc.
I love Tesla. I love EVs... but geesh.... cashing out your retirement for a CAR?
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I guess that explains why there are about 10 of them in my neighborhood.... Only one fancy Italian sports car, though.
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Yes I see them all the time. But I'm in Los Angeles.
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" If I hadn't heard of Tesla, the money would have gone into some index fund that wouldn't have made much, relatively speaking." What??!? The Tesla makes 8% or so on average per year for the next 30 years? Where do I sign up to buy shares in a Tesla?
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While most of these excusses are horrible, a few of them didn't seem that bad.
If you have a hobby that is very expensive but enjoyable, would you decide to cut an expense you felt was not bringing you as much happiness?
I agree that at no point should retirement money be touched here. But one guy only changed his mobile phone plan (which he was probably paying too much for anyways), eats out less, and cut the cable. If cars are his hobby, I don't really see that as a huge sacrifice.
I don't value cars enough to buy one new (maybe used one day - I do love these cars), but other people don't value my D&D book collection like I do. Those people putting themselves in strain are being ridiculous, but a few of those comments aren't so bad.
Argyle -
Tesla stock has actually served me quite well!
Parents gave it to me a year ago as a graduation gift (they wanted me to practice dealing with the stock market). Not a big individual stock person myself, and who knows how it will perform long term. But I just decided to get it sit there while I do my own thing with my money.
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I stretched. I had to give my Wife the hard sell to do it. Now we are expecting another baby and the stretch is seeming too much. previously i had a $500 PM Payment inc gas. Now I'm at $1000. My wife is having to sacrifice a nice car when her lease runs out in feb so I can keep the Tesla. Would I do it again? … No because It has caused some major arguments . do I love the car? 1000% yes. alas I have to sell it . but Ill be back for another in a couple of years .
This is going to sound mean, but . . .
I will be surprised if this guy is still married in 5-10 years. They clearly can't afford it. Wife said so, said some version of a clear "No, do not buy this car." And then he either just bought it anyway or whined and complained and cajoled until she relented at some tired moment and said "Fine! If you really want it so bad, just go buy it! Who cares what I think anyway?" He is putting his own wants above the needs of his family. Not cool, bro, not cool. Yet he plans to do it AGAIN! Pattern for marital disaster.
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I stretched. I had to give my Wife the hard sell to do it. Now we are expecting another baby and the stretch is seeming too much. previously i had a $500 PM Payment inc gas. Now I'm at $1000. My wife is having to sacrifice a nice car when her lease runs out in feb so I can keep the Tesla. Would I do it again? … No because It has caused some major arguments . do I love the car? 1000% yes. alas I have to sell it . but Ill be back for another in a couple of years .
This is going to sound mean, but . . .
I will be surprised if this guy is still married in 5-10 years. They clearly can't afford it. Wife said so, said some version of a clear "No, do not buy this car." And then he either just bought it anyway or whined and complained and cajoled until she relented at some tired moment and said "Fine! If you really want it so bad, just go buy it! Who cares what I think anyway?" He is putting his own wants above the needs of his family. Not cool, bro, not cool. Yet he plans to do it AGAIN! Pattern for marital disaster.
Good observation. I'm pretty sure I'd rather be happily married without a Tesla than divorced or unhappily married with one. And I think he's starting to realize that.
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I had a chance to buy a Tesla for $50k with the 300 mile option with a pre-pay. My company had just sold (I was an vested employee) and I had the funds. My wife vetoed the purchase.
I do have a electric vehicle, paid from bike hobby funds, from outriderusa.com. It's a pedal-electric recumbent trike. It gets 40 miles on a 12 cent charge.
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Tesla has always claimed that they're eventually aiming for a ~$40k, widely-accessible electric car. I guess folks just don't have patience.
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Tesla has always claimed that they're eventually aiming for a ~$40k, widely-accessible electric car. I guess folks just don't have patience.
Tesla probably needs those folks without patience to have any chance of halving the price.
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Tesla has always claimed that they're eventually aiming for a ~$40k, widely-accessible electric car. I guess folks just don't have patience.
Tesla probably needs those folks without patience to have any chance of halving the price.
A vehicle that costs $40k is not widely accessible.
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True, but a lot more accessible than 90k. I'm not a car guy and wouldn't buy it even for 20k, but if I were I could save 40k for one.
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this is just to give you a picture of how far i stretched...
Time of purchase approx salary $65K
1st car 2001 - 2008 = Protege 5 = $20K
2nd car 2009 - 2013 = Genesis coupe = $32K
3rd car 2013 - now = Tesla Model S = $121K
would i do it again? yep, there is still no car that comes close.
I find this guy's first and second car purchases to be absurd.
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Good observation. I'm pretty sure I'd rather be happily married without a Tesla than divorced or unhappily married with one. And I think he's starting to realize that.
Based on his financial acumen I don't think he will be able to have a Tesla post-divorce either.
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Tesla is the cheapest car you can buy because if you bought one in 2013, it is worth about 40% more than you paid! They are literally worth more used than new due to shortages of supply vs demand.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/jimgorzelany/2014/02/07/tesla-model-s-worth-more-used-than-new/ (http://www.forbes.com/sites/jimgorzelany/2014/02/07/tesla-model-s-worth-more-used-than-new/)
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I feel like one only has a few "hard sells" to use on their spouse per decade (lifetime?), and getting a ridiculously expensive car is not worth using one up.
Someone I know bought a Tesla for environmental reasons. It's especially silly because he bikes to work 3 times a week.
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Has anyone here driven Tesla? Does it feel somehow different from a normal gasoline car?
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Has anyone here driven Tesla? Does it feel somehow different from a normal gasoline car?
The incredible thing about electric motors is that they have full torque at 0 rpm. For example, the Tesla S Performance has 325 lb·ft torque at 0 rpm. That's probably the biggest difference from an ICE with a lossy transmission.
Here's a graphic from Tesla marketing that kinda shows the difference:
(http://www.teslamotors.com/sites/default/files/Torque-Curve2.png)
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Tesla has always claimed that they're eventually aiming for a ~$40k, widely-accessible electric car. I guess folks just don't have patience.
Tesla probably needs those folks without patience to have any chance of halving the price.
A vehicle that costs $40k is not widely accessible.
I can't see myself spending that much money on car, but if it is as nice as their current models I will definitely find myself tempted....
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Holy frak! I have a Leaf, which is way cheaper ($500 a month), and I even regret that (the ex talked me into it during a moment of weakness. The cheap paid off car I had was breaking down every month).
I can't even imagine a $1000 a month car payment. And I bet the insurance on it is just insane.
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It's so weird how people got roommates, cut cable, avoided unnecessary purchases to do this! If it weren't for the crazy car purchase, they'd be heading on a very mustachian route!
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A neighbour that lives behind me but one house up, lives in a shabby old duplex and has a late model Ferrari. Its crazy, the car is probably worth more than the home.
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I think most of the comments are pretty silly. I couldn't read all of them because I was getting annoyed. DH has talked about getting a Tesla in the future (when it is hopefully "cheaper"), which makes no financial sense to me. We own a Prius now due to his commute, but his argument about getting a Tesla, in terms of saving money, is ridiculous.
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If I were going to spend $100K on a car, it most definitely would be something cooler than a Tesla (just my opinion).
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If I were going to spend $100K on a car, it most definitely would be something cooler than a Tesla (just my opinion).
Don't say that until you drive one. It's like being shot out of a cannon. (I drove the Roadster) Ridiculously expensive but an amazing car to drive.
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If I were going to spend $100K on a car, it most definitely would be something cooler than a Tesla (just my opinion).
Out of curiosity, what would that be? I can't possibly imagine a cooler car.
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If I were going to spend $100K on a car, it most definitely would be something cooler than a Tesla (just my opinion).
Out of curiosity, what would that be? I can't possibly imagine a cooler car.
(http://i.imgur.com/WsmKdp2.jpg?1)
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If I were going to spend $100K on a car, it most definitely would be something cooler than a Tesla (just my opinion).
Out of curiosity, what would that be? I can't possibly imagine a cooler car.
1970 Challenger T/A. Also like being shot out of a cannon.
(http://www.blogcdn.com/www.autoblog.com/media/2009/10/emaxlead.jpg)
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" If I hadn't heard of Tesla, the money would have gone into some index fund that wouldn't have made much, relatively speaking." What??!? The Tesla makes 8% or so on average per year for the next 30 years? Where do I sign up to buy shares in a Tesla?
I bought mine at Vanguard.
I enjoy owning my TSLA*, even though I've never driven it!
; )
(*Indirectly via VTSAX, of course)
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If I were going to spend $100K on a car, it most definitely would be something cooler than a Tesla (just my opinion).
Out of curiosity, what would that be? I can't possibly imagine a cooler car.
1970 Challenger T/A. Also like being shot out of a cannon.
The '15 Challenger SRT with the new Hellcat motor is rumored to be in the neighborhood of 680HP...you bet I would take that over a Tesla any day of the week.
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The heck with Tesla and their ridiculously expensive cars.
I'm getting one of these when they come out (low price, look cool, and less than 10% of the cost of a Tesla):
http://www.eliomotors.com/
(http://www.eliomotors.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/elio3rgb2-723x382.jpg)
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If I were going to spend $100K on a car, it most definitely would be something cooler than a Tesla (just my opinion).
For sure. Tesla makes nice stuff, but end of the day it's an electric car and electric cars just don't have the same experience. The sounds, vibration, and variable power of the gasoline engine is what makes a car *fun* to drive. Car guys are still buying manual transmissions instead of automatics on the gas side even though the new automatics are faster AND more efficient. Fast and efficient isn't what the experience is about!
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The heck with Tesla and their ridiculously expensive cars.
I'm getting one of these when they come out (low price, look cool, and less than 10% of the cost of a Tesla):
http://www.eliomotors.com/
(http://www.eliomotors.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/elio3rgb2-723x382.jpg)
Whoa thanks for the link. I seriously, seriously want one of these. And the price is right!
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I started a thread a while ago about this. I met someone who complained about not being able to buy anything because they were broke ever since they bought an $80k Tesla and a $360k house. (This was amidst bragging about being "green" because they were painting their 3000 square foot house with no VOC paint.) It was an impressive humble brag.
Plus they didn't want to drive the Tesla in the winter because they didn't want to get snow or salt on it, so it was sitting in the garage.
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Plus they didn't want to drive the Tesla in the winter because they didn't want to get snow or salt on it, so it was sitting in the garage.
Probably wise to not drive the Tesla in the Winter. With those fires coming from damage to the underbody I would NOT want to drive one in the Winter around here. It's not uncommon to hit large chunks of ice that will cause underbody damage. Beginning of Spring I go around and clean up/reundercoat the bottom of my cars where they've been hit by debris. There are some pretty good dings in the bottom there and one of the cars has had to have gouges welded closed a couple times.
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I stretched a lot when I got my car in January I absolutely love it, but have wondered if buying it was really a good idea.
Mostly because of 4 things:
My wife is no longer working
My wife is now in graduate school
I want a Nokia Lumia 1020
I want an XBox One
That was posted in December. His wife would have had to be applying to graduate schools when they bought the car, so her being out of work shouldn't have been a "surprise".
Idiots like that are why you should never, ever, ever marry an overaged child.
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Plus they didn't want to drive the Tesla in the winter because they didn't want to get snow or salt on it, so it was sitting in the garage.
Probably wise to not drive the Tesla in the Winter. With those fires coming from damage to the underbody I would NOT want to drive one in the Winter around here. It's not uncommon to hit large chunks of ice that will cause underbody damage.
This is misinformation. Those cars are tanks. Have you seen this?
https://medium.com/p/544f35965a0d
(https://d262ilb51hltx0.cloudfront.net/max/800/1*sHsOwbthEUip1d-CRPZcFg.gif)
(https://d262ilb51hltx0.cloudfront.net/max/800/1*jX6zAXW-xmUgkNDhi891zQ.gif)
(https://d262ilb51hltx0.cloudfront.net/max/800/1*GYJrGrKUwnjSzw3IpSFS3w.gif)
Those are a tow ball hitch, ball of concrete, and an alternator being obliterated by Model S's new Titanium underbelly.
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I agree that the Tesla is a marvel of engineering, but in the true spirit of Mustachianism, if I were in the market for an electric car (and nothing else would do) I wouldn't spend that amount of money on one. You can get very nice conversions... Miatas, etc.... for a fraction of the cost, even with all the comforts like A/C and heat.
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That is nuts! Just plain insanity. $96,000 for a car? Never in a million years would I do that.
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That is nuts! Just plain insanity. $96,000 for a car? Never in a million years would I do that.
In a million years, you would jump at the opportunity. $96k will be worth nothing, by then :-p
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Plus they didn't want to drive the Tesla in the winter because they didn't want to get snow or salt on it, so it was sitting in the garage.
Probably wise to not drive the Tesla in the Winter. With those fires coming from damage to the underbody I would NOT want to drive one in the Winter around here. It's not uncommon to hit large chunks of ice that will cause underbody damage.
This is misinformation. Those cars are tanks. Have you seen this?
I'm glad to see they fixed that problem on the new ones. Have they gone back and retrofitted all of them on the road, or are there still ticking timebombs driving down the highway?
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There wasn't a problem on the old one. There were only 3 fires, which placed it at lesser fire rate then gasoline cars.
3 fires out of what 40,000 cars now...?
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I used to like expensive cars, then I turned 18 and realized that with the exception coke and hookers, a car might be one of the most rediculuos purchases most people make.
Even flying new planes stopped appealing to me. I liked upgrading from a duchess to a Saab, mostly because it could climb off a short runway on a single engine. The weather radar and de-ice boots were nice too. Otherwise, I never got shiny jet syndrome, if a turboprop could pay my salary I really didn't care that I wasn't cruising in the fligh levels.
Same goes with cars. My 14 year old Toyota Sienna can carry more people and equipment than a tesla, and at less than 5000 miles per year I'm probably polluting less than the average tesla owner who fuels up with coal or natural gas.
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If I were going to spend $100K on a car, it most definitely would be something cooler than a Tesla (just my opinion).
Out of curiosity, what would that be? I can't possibly imagine a cooler car.
1970 Challenger T/A. Also like being shot out of a cannon.
(http://www.blogcdn.com/www.autoblog.com/media/2009/10/emaxlead.jpg)
To each his own, I suppose. I would consider a Tesla to be several orders of magnitude cooler than an old Challenger.
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I live in Norway, Tesla's biggest market. Last month it was the top selling car in the country. I think we are estimated to buy almost half of their production. Half. Norway isn't the biggest market for anything except goat cheese (nobody else can stand it, we love it), but Tesla is now depending on our politicians for half of their sales.
Europeans and americans differ a lot when it comes to cars in general. My country differs insanely from everyone, as all cars are taxed at extremely high rates, and especially so high performance cars. But not electric cars. No taxes. So to norwegians, Teslas are cheap. It costs just slightly more than normal, average family car around here. If this changes, sales will tank instantly. Norwegians arent buying an electric car, they are buying an affordable high performance car. The only one available.
And I still would not buy one. I know nothing about its reliability, second hand value, battery life, technology advances in batteries etc. The thing could be worth half its sticker price in a year. And this is a story we know here, as Nissan Leafs have fallen by almost 50 % in price in 3 years. And thats the price of a new car from the dealer. People who bought these new 3 years ago have lost 75 % or more.
I do appreciate people taking all the risk and paying all their hard earned money so that someone can develop more sustainable transportation technologies. I just don't want to do it.
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Norway isn't the biggest market for anything except goat cheese (nobody else can stand it, we love it), but Tesla is now depending on our politicians for half of their sales.
I love goat cheese!
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To each his own, I suppose. I would consider a Tesla to be several orders of magnitude cooler than an old Challenger.
I thought this thread blasphemous to begin with, but wow. Several orders of magnitude? Really?
Old Challengers are pretty much as cool as they come! The only thing cooler that I can think of right off of the top of my head would be an old station wagon.
(http://img819.imageshack.us/img819/5416/dsc03881ej6.jpg)
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Norway isn't the biggest market for anything except goat cheese (nobody else can stand it, we love it), but Tesla is now depending on our politicians for half of their sales.
I love goat cheese!
I stand corrected!
Hehehe.
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Norway isn't the biggest market for anything except goat cheese (nobody else can stand it, we love it), but Tesla is now depending on our politicians for half of their sales.
I love goat cheese!
Ah but have you tried Norwegian goat cheese? While in Norway on vacation I picked some up as a gift for my foodie aunt, and boy oh boy. That stuff was STINKY. In North America our goat cheese is mild and inoffensive. Not this Norwegian stuff!
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I love the fact that the introduction of goat cheese into this thread completely threw it off topic. But yeah, everybody else makes crap goat cheese.
To go back on topic, in a few years, when these cars become yesterdays news, technology has advanced and this is no longer the latest fad, I wonder just how cheap they will become. Here they might actually become mustachian at some point, as there is so many of them.
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http://www.extremetech.com/extreme/180443-tesla-model-s-might-be-cheaper-than-a-honda-odyssey-minivan
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The thing is that they might be cheaper to own. Then avain, they might not. Who knows? Certainly not me, but why people take that kind of gamble with that much money is beyond me.
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http://www.extremetech.com/extreme/180443-tesla-model-s-might-be-cheaper-than-a-honda-odyssey-minivan
Doesn't that just mean you shouldn't buy a Honda Odyssey? And due to an error in his spreadsheet, the Odyssey ends up beating the Tesla. At the end of the day, he's just using mathemagic to justify a $90k purchase. It doesn't look like he factored in insurance costs, and I can't figure out if his spreadsheet accounts for opportunity cost of investing the difference in purchase price (I don't think so).
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http://www.extremetech.com/extreme/180443-tesla-model-s-might-be-cheaper-than-a-honda-odyssey-minivan
Doesn't that just mean you shouldn't buy a Honda Odyssey?
Absolutely. But the point is there are just as many cars in plain sight that are as ridiculous, if not more, than a Tesla.
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He also picked the absolute most expensive, new Odyssey. Why buy the $42,000 version when there's a low $20s version that does all the same things, just without leather and a navigation system that will be dated in a year? I'm also trying to figure out his maintenance costs. I might spend $500 on maintenance on a really bad year where I have to buy all kinds of german parts for my vw. Say, timing belt, water pump, spark plugs and coils. Or a year that I have to buy tires. That only happens about once every 5 years. Yet he has mx costs at $2500 on a bad year. What does he anticipate, a total transmission swap after 5 years?
I bought a minivan this year. A 2000 Toyota Sienna. At 141,000 miles it runs better than any of my other cars and I'm sure I'll get another 6+ years out of it. What did I pay? $3,800.
This list isn't really about the cost of ownership, it's about justifying something cool and expensive with fuzzy data.
Th
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This list isn't really about the cost of ownership, it's about justifying something cool and expensive with fuzzy data.
Yeah, I can show that buying a Tesla is cheaper than biking even if I assume the bike is free.
Assuming I have to travel 15k miles a year
each mile requires 50 calories
each calories costs $0.01 (fuel)
medical insurance at $1200 per year (maintenance)
rent at $3600 per year (you can park a car in the street but you have to sleep somewhere)
That's a total cost of $98,4000 for 8 years! I'm going to show this to my wife and see if she lets me buy a Tesla.
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And most people I know who have minivans have them because they're kid-haulers. I'm not sure where my best friend would fit #4 and #5, plus the groceries from Costco, in a Tesla.
Again, not trying to justify a Tesla in any way, but you do realize it seats 7, right? http://media.ed.edmunds-media.com/tesla/model-s/2013/lt/2013_tesla_model-s_crg_lt_3172013_600.jpg
Why is he taking his wife and 5 children to Costco anyway? That trip sounds like my worst nightmare.
Yes, the math is a little ridiculous. Totally irrelevant for most people here as none of us would consider a $50K minivan (or probably a $25K minivan for that matter), its just an interesting if not funny article. The Honda is an extreme example, but I bet even with real math there are plenty of cars infinitely more common than Teslas that are just as unaffordable/financially insane for the average family.
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As it turns out, the car was nearly free. Thanks to having the money in TSLA, I was able to pay off the car and we've got the same extra $50k we originally had... If I hadn't heard of Tesla, the money would have gone into some index fund that wouldn't have made much, relatively speaking.
Thanks to getting money in TSLA at $30/share, I was able to not buy a car and have a big stinkin' pile of money instead!
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And most people I know who have minivans have them because they're kid-haulers. I'm not sure where my best friend would fit #4 and #5, plus the groceries from Costco, in a Tesla.
Again, not trying to justify a Tesla in any way, but you do realize it seats 7, right? http://media.ed.edmunds-media.com/tesla/model-s/2013/lt/2013_tesla_model-s_crg_lt_3172013_600.jpg
Why is he taking his wife and 5 children to Costco anyway? That trip sounds like my worst nightmare.
Yes, the math is a little ridiculous. Totally irrelevant for most people here as none of us would consider a $50K minivan (or probably a $25K minivan for that matter), its just an interesting if not funny article. The Honda is an extreme example, but I bet even with real math there are plenty of cars infinitely more common than Teslas that are just as unaffordable/financially insane for the average family.
No, I didn't realize it had 5 seats! My parents' station wagon had a seat like that, though it leaves precious little space for groceries.
And she takes the 5 kids to Costco because he is busy working to support a family of 7. (He drives some small sedan.) The children don't watch themselves, so they go to Costco. And since the oldest is 8, you can't put her in the front seat.
Actually, the T Models S has insane amount of storage. You could probably have 6 passengers, and still carry a lot of groceries. Some in front of the kids feat in the back, full the front (there is no engine... just another trunk.)
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Good grief, after all this talk, I had to google Tesla just to see what these magic money mobiles look like, and imagine my surprise when I realized I SAW ONE OF THESE ON THE ROAD JUST THE OTHER DAY! And now I know what it was. That's certainly getting close enough to one for me, for now. Maybe in a decade they will be on the used market cheap enough for me to considering buying one.
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Good grief, after all this talk, I had to google Tesla just to see what these magic money mobiles look like, and imagine my surprise when I realized I SAW ONE OF THESE ON THE ROAD JUST THE OTHER DAY! And now I know what it was. That's certainly getting close enough to one for me, for now. Maybe in a decade they will be on the used market cheap enough for me to considering buying one.
Did you shout in awe: "THATS A MIDSIZE SEDAN!"
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YES! My son and I were wondering what the little T was for . . . and now we know. One of the versions looks like an egg, but the other one is nice looking. $96K for a car that looks like an egg.
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YES! My son and I were wondering what the little T was for . . . and now we know. One of the versions looks like an egg, but the other one is nice looking. $96K for a car that looks like an egg.
Ha, you could buy a Previa for like $1500 and it would have the same shape.
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What Previa and/or Tesla are you guys looking at?
(http://jacobfoxx.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/tesla-model-s.jpg)
(http://www.examiner.com/images/blog/EXID11011/images/92812141991102-480.jpg)
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If you're willing to give up a carbon fiber spoiler and a tiny bit of acceleration, the price drops to $80k. Willing to also settle for 230mi range instead of 300? Price drops to $70k. Live in Colorado? $6k tax rebate on top of $7k federal tax rebate.
So all things considered, you can get a model S for $57,570.
You can also go fully loaded for $128,000. Pretty incredible price range really.
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If you're willing to give up a carbon fiber spoiler and a tiny bit of acceleration, the price drops to $80k. Willing to also settle for 230mi range instead of 300? Price drops to $70k. Live in Colorado? $6k tax rebate on top of $7k federal tax rebate.
So all things considered, you can get a model S for $57,570.
You can also go fully loaded for $128,000. Pretty incredible price range really.
True, though that seems to be a normal range for a lot of cars. The Sienna lists $26,920 for the L and $40,240 for the limited. Same engine, both fwd (the AWD goes up to 47,070). The only difference is leather and gadgets. Gadgets that will probably cost $300 aftermarket on ebay in a year.
Cars are mostly a big rip off. The only thing I really care about is safety and efficiency.
Also, if you do buy the Tesla have fun replacing the battery pack when they're out of warranty. I can't even begin to imagine how much that will cost, $15,000, $25,000?
I was looking at the price for a rebuilt battery pack for our civic hybrid yesterday. About $2,200 to do a swap myself. I could maybe, maybe rebuild the cells for $400 or so but I think I would have to buy a $400 charger along with that. I hope I get the 76,000 miles out of this one that I got out of the first one.
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(http://www.examiner.com/images/blog/EXID11011/images/92812141991102-480.jpg)
Wow. I really don't like the look of mini-vans (or car about car aesthetics in general), but, this one is amazing.
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Wow. I really don't like the look of mini-vans (or car about car aesthetics in general), but, this one is amazing.
Great minivan, but labor costs on them are high. The engine is mid-mounted, under the floor, and hard to get at.
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Wow. I really don't like the look of mini-vans (or car about car aesthetics in general), but, this one is amazing.
Great minivan, but labor costs on them are high. The engine is mid-mounted, under the floor, and hard to get at.
They were also pretty atrocious from a safety perspective. The Sienna that succeeded it was like a night into day transition.
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Wow. I really don't like the look of mini-vans (or car about car aesthetics in general), but, this one is amazing.
Great minivan, but labor costs on them are high. The engine is mid-mounted, under the floor, and hard to get at.
They're still driving them in Japan, in fact there's a hybrid version over there.
My dream, a hybrid minivan run by a diesel engine, sort of like a train.
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The heck with Tesla and their ridiculously expensive cars.
I'm getting one of these when they come out (low price, look cool, and less than 10% of the cost of a Tesla):
http://www.eliomotors.com/
(http://www.eliomotors.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/elio3rgb2-723x382.jpg)
That things looks pretty awesome! Only $7k and 84 mpg. I'd be a little scared going next to a semi on I-95 with it thought. Maybe if I took the back roads to work instead..
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The heck with Tesla and their ridiculously expensive cars.
I'm getting one of these when they come out (low price, look cool, and less than 10% of the cost of a Tesla):
http://www.eliomotors.com/
(http://www.eliomotors.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/elio3rgb2-723x382.jpg)
That things looks pretty awesome! Only $7k and 84 mpg. I'd be a little scared going next to a semi on I-95 with it thought. Maybe if I took the back roads to work instead..
Yeah, I'm not sure I'd want to take it cross country on busy highways, either. But the Elio would make a great 2nd commuter car. With the low cost and great gas mileage, it would be great for that.
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My son is on the list for an Elio when it comes out. It'll be his commuter car, since he has a 40 mile, 1 hour commute each way.
My electric car is a street legal electric golf cart for $2400. Works just fine for me because I can't walk far or ride a bike, but it can haul lots of things from the store to home in peace and quiet. Yes, the town has a special law for street legal golf carts. And yes, the full torque goes from 0 mph, so, from a dead stop, I can beat almost any car for about 2-10 inches...:)
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Wow. I really don't like the look of mini-vans (or car about car aesthetics in general), but, this one is amazing.
Great minivan, but labor costs on them are high. The engine is mid-mounted, under the floor, and hard to get at.
They were also pretty atrocious from a safety perspective. The Sienna that succeeded it was like a night into day transition.
Autos are used to haul people and stuff. Expense, ease and costs of repairs, safety are all things I would consider in an auto purchase. Paint might be considered into safety or longevity. Also what type of auto would best meet needs.
Aesthetics? I don't care what it looks like as long as it meets my needs.
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What if one of your "needs" is to impress others? :)
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What if one of your "needs" is to impress others? :)
Ah. I do have the need to be accepted by others. I'm probably overly worried about being polite, kind and helpful. But it seems to me that a lot of people are using cars as a status symbol to the point where they make $96000 purchases that tank their relationships and their finances. A car is a tool. So is a hammer but for some reason I've never seen someone who got their self esteem tangled up in how cool their hammer looked to others. I see lots of folks who buy cars based on what's cool instead of they need and can afford.
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Autos are used to haul people and stuff. Expense, ease and costs of repairs, safety are all things I would consider in an auto purchase. Paint might be considered into safety or longevity. Also what type of auto would best meet needs.
Aesthetics? I don't care what it looks like as long as it meets my needs.
I *prefer* my cars don't look like they're going to fall apart while I'm driving down the road, so I get the rust areas patched regularly on my cars. That of course also helps keep the rust from intruding further into the car and doing actual structural damage. I don't bother repainting the chips on the plastic pieces though. :-)
I mostly just look for something that's inexpensive to purchase, inexpensive to maintain, and is fun. If I'm going to spend time in it, it should be enjoyable. Hence, why I have small 4 cyl sportscars. Cheap to buy and operate, not much to go wrong, and plenty of fun! As a middle-aged guy with no children, safety isn't on my radar, especially since the worst cars today are so much better than even the best cars from back in the day. Just not a concern for me.
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Plus they didn't want to drive the Tesla in the winter because they didn't want to get snow or salt on it, so it was sitting in the garage.
Probably wise to not drive the Tesla in the Winter. With those fires coming from damage to the underbody I would NOT want to drive one in the Winter around here. It's not uncommon to hit large chunks of ice that will cause underbody damage.
This is misinformation. Those cars are tanks. Have you seen this?
I'm glad to see they fixed that problem on the new ones. Have they gone back and retrofitted all of them on the road, or are there still ticking timebombs driving down the highway?
Nobody was even injured in those fires, and they have had fewer fires than gasoline cars by any reasonable metric (per mile, or per vehicle on the road) The car told the driver to pull over, the driver did. From a safety perspective, Tesla is way up at the top of the heap. They broke the testing machine when they tried to crush one vertically.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/cars/2013/08/20/tesla-model-s-crash-test/2678557/
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Saw this today, had to post it here:
http://theoatmeal.com/comics/tesla_model_s
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Saw this today, had to post it here:
http://theoatmeal.com/comics/tesla_model_s
"Never mind the fact that Tesla Motors responded by releasing a software update that was wirelessly downloaded to every Model S overnight that adjusted the height of the car and fixed the problem"
Jesus... does anyone else find this way more terrifying than the chance of fire?
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Saw this today, had to post it here:
http://theoatmeal.com/comics/tesla_model_s
"Never mind the fact that Tesla Motors responded by releasing a software update that was wirelessly downloaded to every Model S overnight that adjusted the height of the car and fixed the problem"
Jesus... does anyone else find this way more terrifying than the chance of fire?
I work in software. This is a double-edged sword for sure. On the one hand, it's awesome that they have the capability to correct safety-related bugs without forcing everyone to drive their car into the dealer. On the other hand, if someone manages to get a hold of Tesla's private keys there might not be anything stopping them from broadcasting a "software update" to cause all Teslas' brakes to fail the next time they accelerate past 40 MPH.
Plenty of cars are already vulnerable (http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/07/28/net-us-hackers-cars-idUSBRE96R06120130728) to a wide variety of software security vulnerabilities. The remote software update feature greatly increases the potential attack surface. It should definitely give one pause.
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Saw this today, had to post it here:
http://theoatmeal.com/comics/tesla_model_s
"Never mind the fact that Tesla Motors responded by releasing a software update that was wirelessly downloaded to every Model S overnight that adjusted the height of the car and fixed the problem"
Jesus... does anyone else find this way more terrifying than the chance of fire?
I work in software. This is a double-edged sword for sure. On the one hand, it's awesome that they have the capability to correct safety-related bugs without forcing everyone to drive their car into the dealer. On the other hand, if someone manages to get a hold of Tesla's private keys there might not be anything stopping them from broadcasting a "software update" to cause all Teslas' brakes to fail the next time they accelerate past 40 MPH.
Plenty of cars are already vulnerable (http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/07/28/net-us-hackers-cars-idUSBRE96R06120130728) to a wide variety of software security vulnerabilities. The remote software update feature greatly increases the potential attack surface. It should definitely give one pause.
It's cool, but it would be really easy to make someone with the key actually confirm they want the update installed (maybe it does? I am getting my facts from a webcomic).
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Saw this today, had to post it here:
http://theoatmeal.com/comics/tesla_model_s
Nice. However, he shouldn't have used his "5.4/5" claim to bolster his safety speech. The NHTSA specifically denounced Tesla's claim that the S had a 5.4/5 score; what Tesla did was the equivalent of adding up one's points on a pass/fail test and declaring one got a P+10 if one got a 90 and the P threshold was 80.
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Saw this today, had to post it here:
http://theoatmeal.com/comics/tesla_model_s
"Never mind the fact that Tesla Motors responded by releasing a software update that was wirelessly downloaded to every Model S overnight that adjusted the height of the car and fixed the problem"
Jesus... does anyone else find this way more terrifying than the chance of fire?
I work in software. This is a double-edged sword for sure. On the one hand, it's awesome that they have the capability to correct safety-related bugs without forcing everyone to drive their car into the dealer. On the other hand, if someone manages to get a hold of Tesla's private keys there might not be anything stopping them from broadcasting a "software update" to cause all Teslas' brakes to fail the next time they accelerate past 40 MPH.
Plenty of cars are already vulnerable (http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/07/28/net-us-hackers-cars-idUSBRE96R06120130728) to a wide variety of software security vulnerabilities. The remote software update feature greatly increases the potential attack surface. It should definitely give one pause.
I also work in software, and therefore own cars built last millennium. (One of them still manages to be drive-by-wire, but at least I know they don't have any modems in them.)
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Good grief, after all this talk, I had to google Tesla just to see what these magic money mobiles look like, and imagine my surprise when I realized I SAW ONE OF THESE ON THE ROAD JUST THE OTHER DAY! And now I know what it was. That's certainly getting close enough to one for me, for now. Maybe in a decade they will be on the used market cheap enough for me to considering buying one.
Did you shout in awe: "THATS A MIDSIZE SEDAN!"
Splurted my water, thanks.
I want the self-driving electric car. I want to share it with others like zip car, call it to the house, sit down, say, "go to x" read my book and get there. I'll pay for that. Otherwise the Tesla is same-o, same-o car.
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I want the self-driving electric car. I want to share it with others like zip car, call it to the house, sit down, say, "go to x" read my book and get there.
Ditto this - I really hope to see something like this in my lifetime. Need a car - send a message on your smartphone - it comes to your house in 15 minutes and picks you up. Also, it solves so many problems - like only getting the vehicle you need for that particular day or trip. Sadly, it will probably end up sucking (tragedy of the commons) but I am in love with the idea of that.
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Saw this today, had to post it here:
http://theoatmeal.com/comics/tesla_model_s
"Never mind the fact that Tesla Motors responded by releasing a software update that was wirelessly downloaded to every Model S overnight that adjusted the height of the car and fixed the problem"
Jesus... does anyone else find this way more terrifying than the chance of fire?
I work in software. This is a double-edged sword for sure. On the one hand, it's awesome that they have the capability to correct safety-related bugs without forcing everyone to drive their car into the dealer. On the other hand, if someone manages to get a hold of Tesla's private keys there might not be anything stopping them from broadcasting a "software update" to cause all Teslas' brakes to fail the next time they accelerate past 40 MPH.
Plenty of cars are already vulnerable (http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/07/28/net-us-hackers-cars-idUSBRE96R06120130728) to a wide variety of software security vulnerabilities. The remote software update feature greatly increases the potential attack surface. It should definitely give one pause.
It's cool, but it would be really easy to make someone with the key actually confirm they want the update installed (maybe it does? I am getting my facts from a webcomic).
How many people check to see whether the new IOS update will make their IPhone explode before they just push "download update"?
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Saw this today, had to post it here:
http://theoatmeal.com/comics/tesla_model_s
"Never mind the fact that Tesla Motors responded by releasing a software update that was wirelessly downloaded to every Model S overnight that adjusted the height of the car and fixed the problem"
Jesus... does anyone else find this way more terrifying than the chance of fire?
I work in software. This is a double-edged sword for sure. On the one hand, it's awesome that they have the capability to correct safety-related bugs without forcing everyone to drive their car into the dealer. On the other hand, if someone manages to get a hold of Tesla's private keys there might not be anything stopping them from broadcasting a "software update" to cause all Teslas' brakes to fail the next time they accelerate past 40 MPH.
Plenty of cars are already vulnerable (http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/07/28/net-us-hackers-cars-idUSBRE96R06120130728) to a wide variety of software security vulnerabilities. The remote software update feature greatly increases the potential attack surface. It should definitely give one pause.
It's cool, but it would be really easy to make someone with the key actually confirm they want the update installed (maybe it does? I am getting my facts from a webcomic).
How many people check to see whether the new IOS update will make their IPhone explode before they just push "download update"?
How many iphones can kill you with a malicious update? The risk is negligible (it could possibly get very hot or give you directions off a cliff?)
edit: that said, I do tend to wait a long time before updating my phone software -- if it ain't broke, don't fix it. This won't prevent sleeper code, but greatly increases the chance Apple detects it and says "woah, someone compromised our servers -- that update is stealing your credit card info!"
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edit: that said, I do tend to wait a long time before updating my phone software -- if it ain't broke, don't fix it. This won't prevent sleeper code, but greatly increases the chance Apple detects it and says "woah, someone compromised our servers -- that update is stealing your credit card info!"
Primarily, it greatly increases the chance that you will fall victim to a known security flaw. Soon after Apple publishes a security update, if not before, everyone knows what the problem was and how to exploit it in phones which aren't updated yet.
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edit: that said, I do tend to wait a long time before updating my phone software -- if it ain't broke, don't fix it. This won't prevent sleeper code, but greatly increases the chance Apple detects it and says "woah, someone compromised our servers -- that update is stealing your credit card info!"
Primarily, it greatly increases the chance that you will fall victim to a known security flaw. Soon after Apple publishes a security update, if not before, everyone knows what the problem was and how to exploit it in phones which aren't updated yet.
Perhaps but you can read the update description to determine your risk and vulnerability. I want that option. And of course the tesla has this problem magnified by the potential to kill you
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For sure, automatic updates on a car are not comparable at all to automatic updates on a phone, and for sure, reading the update descriptions and manually approving them is a good idea. (I was only commenting on the practice of delaying updates for a long time. Your phone is broke, a little, so do fix it.) That said, I do doubt that car software updates would have control over critical things like steering, acceleration, or the brakes. I could be wrong.
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For sure, automatic updates on a car are not comparable at all to automatic updates on a phone, and for sure, reading the update descriptions and manually approving them is a good idea. (I was only commenting on the practice of delaying updates for a long time. Your phone is broke, a little, so do fix it.) That said, I do doubt that car software updates would have control over critical things like steering, acceleration, or the brakes. I could be wrong.
OK, I was only going based on the webcomic so I did a little more research to confirm that they increased the ride height by adjusting the suspension via remote update. Maybe they have separate systems, but I wouldn't be surprised if you can do nasty things.
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For what you'd spend on a Tesla you could buy a brand new Hyundai and save the extra $80k for gas. Even more if you buy a used car. The economics simply don't make sense.
Yes, I know Tesla is a luxury car but if you're being frugal who needs that?
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For what you'd spend on a Tesla you could buy a brand new Hyundai and save the extra $80k for gas. Even more if you buy a used car. The economics simply don't make sense.
Yes, I know Tesla is a luxury car but if you're being frugal who needs that?
By definition, no one needs a luxury vehicle. It's a luxury.
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If you value environmentalism very highly, than that $80k could be money well spent.
Otherwise, do remember that you still get a $96k car out of it - as far as I know, demand for Tesla cars is much higher than their production capacity can satisfy, so there's an active secondary market. I suspect they depreciate in value much slower than other luxury cars do.
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If you value environmentalism very highly, than that $80k could be money well spent.
What is the environmental cost associated with the coal used to charge the battery and the rare earths in the battery itself? Or the environmental cost of all the resources used to make the 4400 lb car itself?
Don't get me wrong, I drool over the engineering in the Tesla, but I an skeptical that it is environmentally better in the long run. I remember asking a friend of mine who is a clean energy analyst, and he said that the most environmentally friendly car (besides not owning a car at all) for most people is still a used high MPG vehicle. He owned a used Corolla.
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Perhaps, but imagine how much clean the air in our cities is going to be when all cars are electric (or hydrogen).
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If you value environmentalism to the tune of $80k, you're already getting all of your energy from renewable sources anyway.
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I dearly love my Tesla, but I am also quite proud that at $56K after tax credit, but including license, registration and delivery charges, I possibly have the cheapest Tesla every delivered.
On Dec 31, 2012 right before the price increase I ordered mine. I got a 40KWH battery (no longer available) which saved me $10K) the only options I got were leather seats, air suspension and blue paint. My PV charges the car, and there is no maintenance needed other than buying and rotating tires. So while I can't, with straight face, claim it is Mustachian it isn't as crazy expense as it appears a first. Now days you get a Tesla for $65-70K after rebate, you just have to skip the expensive options like the tech package, leather trim, moon roof etc.
It is an amazing transportation device (car is just so 20th century). Literally every person who I have take for a ride has been blown away, mostly the people who aren't "car people". At least 2 are seriously considering buying one (one who could afford to and one who really shouldn't).
The software upgrade are really one of the coolest things about the car. In the almost year I've owned the car, it is much better product now than when I bought thanks to scores of improvement which get delivered automatically every couple of months.
That said unless you have lots of money and/or really need a big car, I'd wait until 2016/2017 to get the 3rd generation Tesla at <$40K I am sure it will be amazing.