work till you drop

[frugledoc]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/money/news/article-2690745/Government-appoints-Dr-Ros-Altmann-tout-benefits-older-people-working-longer.html

from one of britain's most read junk tabloids

[gimp]

Have you ever seen someone who worked sitting down all their life stop working? A retired mechanic becomes a tree-shade mechanic. A retired plumber consults with the company he built. A retired claims adjuster watches TV.

Most old people need something to keep them busy, or they deteriorate, fast. Part-time work sounds like an excellent idea for most. Again, they're retired, so they get to be damn picky about where they work and for what cause. If they're smart, this isn't wage slavery, this is choosing to work to keep your mind sound and feel a sense of accomplishment that you're used to.

Besides which, 65 is too low a retirement age considering how long people are living. If people were financially independent, it wouldn't matter, but since they're drawing on government money, it just gets way too expensive. It makes sense to bump that up slowly over the next couple decades.

[frugledoc]

That only applies to people with satisfying jobs. 

[brewer12345]

Have you ever seen someone who worked sitting down all their life stop working? A retired mechanic becomes a tree-shade mechanic. A retired plumber consults with the company he built. A retired claims adjuster watches TV.

Most old people need something to keep them busy, or they deteriorate, fast. Part-time work sounds like an excellent idea for most. Again, they're retired, so they get to be damn picky about where they work and for what cause. If they're smart, this isn't wage slavery, this is choosing to work to keep your mind sound and feel a sense of accomplishment that you're used to.

Besides which, 65 is too low a retirement age considering how long people are living. If people were financially independent, it wouldn't matter, but since they're drawing on government money, it just gets way too expensive. It makes sense to bump that up slowly over the next couple decades.

Wow, I hope you are being sarcastic/ironic.  If not, well... goatse to you!

[johnintaiwan]

Have you ever seen someone who worked sitting down all their life stop working? A retired mechanic becomes a tree-shade mechanic. A retired plumber consults with the company he built. A retired claims adjuster watches TV.

Most old people need something to keep them busy, or they deteriorate, fast. Part-time work sounds like an excellent idea for most. Again, they're retired, so they get to be damn picky about where they work and for what cause. If they're smart, this isn't wage slavery, this is choosing to work to keep your mind sound and feel a sense of accomplishment that you're used to.

Besides which, 65 is too low a retirement age considering how long people are living. If people were financially independent, it wouldn't matter, but since they're drawing on government money, it just gets way too expensive. It makes sense to bump that up slowly over the next couple decades.

Wow, I hope you are being sarcastic/ironic.  If not, well... goatse to you!

I think you may be misunderstanding his point. I think he means that people need something to do after they quit working. Most people who work with their hands (mechanics/plumbers) likely are very good at what they do and enjoy it. They will likely continue to dabble in it whether it is helping grandchildren repair their cars or helping friends when a pipe leaks. Those are skills that are easy to use outside of "work". A claims adjuster probably wont have many chances to use that experience and skill outside of "work." If he is motivated and has other hobbies and interests then that is fine, but many people probably just sit in front of a tv.

I think part-time work is a great idea as long as you actually like the work and it doesnt take away from things you really want to do. I also agree with people who rely on government to fund their retirement that the age should increase. If people are living longer, they can work a little longer (or become FI and retire whenever they want).

[brewer12345]

Have you ever seen someone who worked sitting down all their life stop working? A retired mechanic becomes a tree-shade mechanic. A retired plumber consults with the company he built. A retired claims adjuster watches TV.

Most old people need something to keep them busy, or they deteriorate, fast. Part-time work sounds like an excellent idea for most. Again, they're retired, so they get to be damn picky about where they work and for what cause. If they're smart, this isn't wage slavery, this is choosing to work to keep your mind sound and feel a sense of accomplishment that you're used to.

Besides which, 65 is too low a retirement age considering how long people are living. If people were financially independent, it wouldn't matter, but since they're drawing on government money, it just gets way too expensive. It makes sense to bump that up slowly over the next couple decades.

Wow, I hope you are being sarcastic/ironic.  If not, well... goatse to you!

I think you may be misunderstanding his point. I think he means that people need something to do after they quit working. Most people who work with their hands (mechanics/plumbers) likely are very good at what they do and enjoy it. They will likely continue to dabble in it whether it is helping grandchildren repair their cars or helping friends when a pipe leaks. Those are skills that are easy to use outside of "work". A claims adjuster probably wont have many chances to use that experience and skill outside of "work." If he is motivated and has other hobbies and interests then that is fine, but many people probably just sit in front of a tv.

I think part-time work is a great idea as long as you actually like the work and it doesnt take away from things you really want to do. I also agree with people who rely on government to fund their retirement that the age should increase. If people are living longer, they can work a little longer (or become FI and retire whenever they want).

I think that is pretty patronizing, no?  Manual laborers and others are incapable of determining what they can do that will make them happy so you want to make the choice for them.  Very nice.  Its a goatse world these days, apparently.

[gimp]

I'm sorry, your argument doesn't make sense.

[brewer12345]

I'm sorry, your argument doesn't make sense.

Bravo!  Bravissimo!  A wonderful retort and counterargument from the gimp!

[dcheesi]

Have you ever seen someone who worked sitting down all their life stop working? A retired mechanic becomes a tree-shade mechanic. A retired plumber consults with the company he built. A retired claims adjuster watches TV.

I'm not sure I would make that assumption in all cases. In fact, I know a former claims adjuster who retired but still works on and off doing catastrophic claims (hurricanes, etc.) as a contractor. Likewise, software/IT workers can do freelance work from home, or become "shade-tree" PC repair-folk.

[johnintaiwan]

Have you ever seen someone who worked sitting down all their life stop working? A retired mechanic becomes a tree-shade mechanic. A retired plumber consults with the company he built. A retired claims adjuster watches TV.

Most old people need something to keep them busy, or they deteriorate, fast. Part-time work sounds like an excellent idea for most. Again, they're retired, so they get to be damn picky about where they work and for what cause. If they're smart, this isn't wage slavery, this is choosing to work to keep your mind sound and feel a sense of accomplishment that you're used to.

Besides which, 65 is too low a retirement age considering how long people are living. If people were financially independent, it wouldn't matter, but since they're drawing on government money, it just gets way too expensive. It makes sense to bump that up slowly over the next couple decades.

Wow, I hope you are being sarcastic/ironic.  If not, well... goatse to you!

I think you may be misunderstanding his point. I think he means that people need something to do after they quit working. Most people who work with their hands (mechanics/plumbers) likely are very good at what they do and enjoy it. They will likely continue to dabble in it whether it is helping grandchildren repair their cars or helping friends when a pipe leaks. Those are skills that are easy to use outside of "work". A claims adjuster probably wont have many chances to use that experience and skill outside of "work." If he is motivated and has other hobbies and interests then that is fine, but many people probably just sit in front of a tv.

I think part-time work is a great idea as long as you actually like the work and it doesnt take away from things you really want to do. I also agree with people who rely on government to fund their retirement that the age should increase. If people are living longer, they can work a little longer (or become FI and retire whenever they want).

I think that is pretty patronizing, no?  Manual laborers and others are incapable of determining what they can do that will make them happy so you want to make the choice for them.  Very nice.  Its a goatse world these days, apparently.

That is not what i am saying at all. I am saying that some occupations develop skills that are more useful outside of making money. No one is trying to make a choice for anyone else. That is not to say that because you were a mechanic that you must continue to work on cars in retirement. You can do whatever you want.  I am saying that some people may find themselves bored after retirement and that part-time work may be enjoyable for them. I plan on doing this myself. Other people may not be bored and might have a lot of things they plan on doing in retirement

I guess the only choice I am trying to make for people is that the retirement age for social security  be raised because life expectancy is rising.

[brewer12345]

Have you ever seen someone who worked sitting down all their life stop working? A retired mechanic becomes a tree-shade mechanic. A retired plumber consults with the company he built. A retired claims adjuster watches TV.

Most old people need something to keep them busy, or they deteriorate, fast. Part-time work sounds like an excellent idea for most. Again, they're retired, so they get to be damn picky about where they work and for what cause. If they're smart, this isn't wage slavery, this is choosing to work to keep your mind sound and feel a sense of accomplishment that you're used to.

Besides which, 65 is too low a retirement age considering how long people are living. If people were financially independent, it wouldn't matter, but since they're drawing on government money, it just gets way too expensive. It makes sense to bump that up slowly over the next couple decades.

Wow, I hope you are being sarcastic/ironic.  If not, well... goatse to you!

I think you may be misunderstanding his point. I think he means that people need something to do after they quit working. Most people who work with their hands (mechanics/plumbers) likely are very good at what they do and enjoy it. They will likely continue to dabble in it whether it is helping grandchildren repair their cars or helping friends when a pipe leaks. Those are skills that are easy to use outside of "work". A claims adjuster probably wont have many chances to use that experience and skill outside of "work." If he is motivated and has other hobbies and interests then that is fine, but many people probably just sit in front of a tv.

I think part-time work is a great idea as long as you actually like the work and it doesnt take away from things you really want to do. I also agree with people who rely on government to fund their retirement that the age should increase. If people are living longer, they can work a little longer (or become FI and retire whenever they want).

I think that is pretty patronizing, no?  Manual laborers and others are incapable of determining what they can do that will make them happy so you want to make the choice for them.  Very nice.  Its a goatse world these days, apparently.

That is not what i am saying at all. I am saying that some occupations develop skills that are more useful outside of making money. No one is trying to make a choice for anyone else. That is not to say that because you were a mechanic that you must continue to work on cars in retirement. You can do whatever you want.  I am saying that some people may find themselves bored after retirement and that part-time work may be enjoyable for them. I plan on doing this myself. Other people may not be bored and might have a lot of things they plan on doing in retirement

I guess the only choice I am trying to make for people is that the retirement age for social security  be raised because life expectancy is rising.

The age has been raised and a significant amount of SS is essentially means-tested (taxable if you make too much money).  If you keep raising the age you will have to figure out what to do about age discrimination and people who work in careers that are young mens' jobs.

[Elyse]

Have you ever seen someone who worked sitting down all their life stop working? A retired mechanic becomes a tree-shade mechanic. A retired plumber consults with the company he built. A retired claims adjuster watches TV.

Most old people need something to keep them busy, or they deteriorate, fast. Part-time work sounds like an excellent idea for most. Again, they're retired, so they get to be damn picky about where they work and for what cause. If they're smart, this isn't wage slavery, this is choosing to work to keep your mind sound and feel a sense of accomplishment that you're used to.

Besides which, 65 is too low a retirement age considering how long people are living. If people were financially independent, it wouldn't matter, but since they're drawing on government money, it just gets way too expensive. It makes sense to bump that up slowly over the next couple decades.

Wow, I hope you are being sarcastic/ironic.  If not, well... goatse to you!

I think you may be misunderstanding his point. I think he means that people need something to do after they quit working. Most people who work with their hands (mechanics/plumbers) likely are very good at what they do and enjoy it. They will likely continue to dabble in it whether it is helping grandchildren repair their cars or helping friends when a pipe leaks. Those are skills that are easy to use outside of "work". A claims adjuster probably wont have many chances to use that experience and skill outside of "work." If he is motivated and has other hobbies and interests then that is fine, but many people probably just sit in front of a tv.

I think part-time work is a great idea as long as you actually like the work and it doesnt take away from things you really want to do. I also agree with people who rely on government to fund their retirement that the age should increase. If people are living longer, they can work a little longer (or become FI and retire whenever they want).

I think that is pretty patronizing, no?  Manual laborers and others are incapable of determining what they can do that will make them happy so you want to make the choice for them.  Very nice.  Its a goatse world these days, apparently.

That is not what i am saying at all. I am saying that some occupations develop skills that are more useful outside of making money. No one is trying to make a choice for anyone else. That is not to say that because you were a mechanic that you must continue to work on cars in retirement. You can do whatever you want.  I am saying that some people may find themselves bored after retirement and that part-time work may be enjoyable for them. I plan on doing this myself. Other people may not be bored and might have a lot of things they plan on doing in retirement

I guess the only choice I am trying to make for people is that the retirement age for social security  be raised because life expectancy is rising.

The age has been raised and a significant amount of SS is essentially means-tested (taxable if you make too much money).  If you keep raising the age you will have to figure out what to do about age discrimination and people who work in careers that are young mens' jobs.

The age has been raised for two reasons: people are living longer (so it has to pay out more than originally thought) and limited funds. 

The choice is between raising the age or lowering the amount distributed. 

We need to figure out the age discrimination anyways.  It is a problem whether the SS age is risen or not.  As for older people working young mens' jobs... why is that bad?  There are plenty of work options out there.  If they get one that is typically for young people, whatever.  I get that it pays less, but if they had extensive experience in something useful then they would easy be able to contract their services.  They only take "young mens' jobs" if they can't find something else. 

And it pushes the young people to be creative.  Look at all the fantastic content that has come from places like YouTube.  Do you know why that took off?  Because they weren't able to find other work.  So they made videos and music instead.  And several of them make a good amount.  Brand new job titles and businesses have come up because of the shortage of jobs.  It makes things hard, yes.  But people find a way.

I was stuck without a job and had to get creative.  So I know exactly what it feels like.  After I made it through, I started helping other people that were in the same boat.  Turns out most people have it drilled in that you have to work for someone as an employee.  They can't think of anything else.  And that is what you have to break them free of.

[brewer12345]

Have you ever seen someone who worked sitting down all their life stop working? A retired mechanic becomes a tree-shade mechanic. A retired plumber consults with the company he built. A retired claims adjuster watches TV.

Most old people need something to keep them busy, or they deteriorate, fast. Part-time work sounds like an excellent idea for most. Again, they're retired, so they get to be damn picky about where they work and for what cause. If they're smart, this isn't wage slavery, this is choosing to work to keep your mind sound and feel a sense of accomplishment that you're used to.

Besides which, 65 is too low a retirement age considering how long people are living. If people were financially independent, it wouldn't matter, but since they're drawing on government money, it just gets way too expensive. It makes sense to bump that up slowly over the next couple decades.

Wow, I hope you are being sarcastic/ironic.  If not, well... goatse to you!

I think you may be misunderstanding his point. I think he means that people need something to do after they quit working. Most people who work with their hands (mechanics/plumbers) likely are very good at what they do and enjoy it. They will likely continue to dabble in it whether it is helping grandchildren repair their cars or helping friends when a pipe leaks. Those are skills that are easy to use outside of "work". A claims adjuster probably wont have many chances to use that experience and skill outside of "work." If he is motivated and has other hobbies and interests then that is fine, but many people probably just sit in front of a tv.

I think part-time work is a great idea as long as you actually like the work and it doesnt take away from things you really want to do. I also agree with people who rely on government to fund their retirement that the age should increase. If people are living longer, they can work a little longer (or become FI and retire whenever they want).

I think that is pretty patronizing, no?  Manual laborers and others are incapable of determining what they can do that will make them happy so you want to make the choice for them.  Very nice.  Its a goatse world these days, apparently.

That is not what i am saying at all. I am saying that some occupations develop skills that are more useful outside of making money. No one is trying to make a choice for anyone else. That is not to say that because you were a mechanic that you must continue to work on cars in retirement. You can do whatever you want.  I am saying that some people may find themselves bored after retirement and that part-time work may be enjoyable for them. I plan on doing this myself. Other people may not be bored and might have a lot of things they plan on doing in retirement

I guess the only choice I am trying to make for people is that the retirement age for social security  be raised because life expectancy is rising.

The age has been raised and a significant amount of SS is essentially means-tested (taxable if you make too much money).  If you keep raising the age you will have to figure out what to do about age discrimination and people who work in careers that are young mens' jobs.

The age has been raised for two reasons: people are living longer (so it has to pay out more than originally thought) and limited funds. 

The choice is between raising the age or lowering the amount distributed. 

We need to figure out the age discrimination anyways.  It is a problem whether the SS age is risen or not.  As for older people working young mens' jobs... why is that bad?  There are plenty of work options out there.  If they get one that is typically for young people, whatever.  I get that it pays less, but if they had extensive experience in something useful then they would easy be able to contract their services.  They only take "young mens' jobs" if they can't find something else. 

And it pushes the young people to be creative.  Look at all the fantastic content that has come from places like YouTube.  Do you know why that took off?  Because they weren't able to find other work.  So they made videos and music instead.  And several of them make a good amount.  Brand new job titles and businesses have come up because of the shortage of jobs.  It makes things hard, yes.  But people find a way.

I was stuck without a job and had to get creative.  So I know exactly what it feels like.  After I made it through, I started helping other people that were in the same boat.  Turns out most people have it drilled in that you have to work for someone as an employee.  They can't think of anything else.  And that is what you have to break them free of.

I am not referring to oldsters "taking" yunguns' jobs.  What I meant was there are plenty of jobs that become difficult or impossible to do as you age.  Stuff like police, firemen, construction, factory and other physically demanding work that tends to wear bodies out by some time in your 50s.  You really do not want a 70 year old cop throwing down with street criminals.

[RapmasterD]

Have you ever seen someone who worked sitting down all their life stop working? A retired mechanic becomes a tree-shade mechanic. A retired plumber consults with the company he built. A retired claims adjuster watches TV.

Most old people need something to keep them busy, or they deteriorate, fast. Part-time work sounds like an excellent idea for most. Again, they're retired, so they get to be damn picky about where they work and for what cause. If they're smart, this isn't wage slavery, this is choosing to work to keep your mind sound and feel a sense of accomplishment that you're used to.

Besides which, 65 is too low a retirement age considering how long people are living. If people were financially independent, it wouldn't matter, but since they're drawing on government money, it just gets way too expensive. It makes sense to bump that up slowly over the next couple decades.

Wow, I hope you are being sarcastic/ironic.  If not, well... goatse to you!

I think you may be misunderstanding his point. I think he means that people need something to do after they quit working. Most people who work with their hands (mechanics/plumbers) likely are very good at what they do and enjoy it. They will likely continue to dabble in it whether it is helping grandchildren repair their cars or helping friends when a pipe leaks. Those are skills that are easy to use outside of "work". A claims adjuster probably wont have many chances to use that experience and skill outside of "work." If he is motivated and has other hobbies and interests then that is fine, but many people probably just sit in front of a tv.

I think part-time work is a great idea as long as you actually like the work and it doesnt take away from things you really want to do. I also agree with people who rely on government to fund their retirement that the age should increase. If people are living longer, they can work a little longer (or become FI and retire whenever they want).

I think that is pretty patronizing, no?  Manual laborers and others are incapable of determining what they can do that will make them happy so you want to make the choice for them.  Very nice.  Its a goatse world these days, apparently.

That is not what i am saying at all. I am saying that some occupations develop skills that are more useful outside of making money. No one is trying to make a choice for anyone else. That is not to say that because you were a mechanic that you must continue to work on cars in retirement. You can do whatever you want.  I am saying that some people may find themselves bored after retirement and that part-time work may be enjoyable for them. I plan on doing this myself. Other people may not be bored and might have a lot of things they plan on doing in retirement

I guess the only choice I am trying to make for people is that the retirement age for social security  be raised because life expectancy is rising.

The age has been raised and a significant amount of SS is essentially means-tested (taxable if you make too much money).  If you keep raising the age you will have to figure out what to do about age discrimination and people who work in careers that are young mens' jobs.

The age has been raised for two reasons: people are living longer (so it has to pay out more than originally thought) and limited funds. 

The choice is between raising the age or lowering the amount distributed. 

We need to figure out the age discrimination anyways.  It is a problem whether the SS age is risen or not.  As for older people working young mens' jobs... why is that bad?  There are plenty of work options out there.  If they get one that is typically for young people, whatever.  I get that it pays less, but if they had extensive experience in something useful then they would easy be able to contract their services.  They only take "young mens' jobs" if they can't find something else. 

And it pushes the young people to be creative.  Look at all the fantastic content that has come from places like YouTube.  Do you know why that took off?  Because they weren't able to find other work.  So they made videos and music instead.  And several of them make a good amount.  Brand new job titles and businesses have come up because of the shortage of jobs.  It makes things hard, yes.  But people find a way.

I was stuck without a job and had to get creative.  So I know exactly what it feels like.  After I made it through, I started helping other people that were in the same boat.  Turns out most people have it drilled in that you have to work for someone as an employee.  They can't think of anything else.  And that is what you have to break them free of.

People are living longer? Significantly longer? Really? Or is that a meme? I think it's a meme.

[Primm]

Have you ever seen someone who worked sitting down all their life stop working? A retired mechanic becomes a tree-shade mechanic. A retired plumber consults with the company he built. A retired claims adjuster watches TV.

Most old people need something to keep them busy, or they deteriorate, fast. Part-time work sounds like an excellent idea for most. Again, they're retired, so they get to be damn picky about where they work and for what cause. If they're smart, this isn't wage slavery, this is choosing to work to keep your mind sound and feel a sense of accomplishment that you're used to.

Besides which, 65 is too low a retirement age considering how long people are living. If people were financially independent, it wouldn't matter, but since they're drawing on government money, it just gets way too expensive. It makes sense to bump that up slowly over the next couple decades.

Wow, I hope you are being sarcastic/ironic.  If not, well... goatse to you!

I think you may be misunderstanding his point. I think he means that people need something to do after they quit working. Most people who work with their hands (mechanics/plumbers) likely are very good at what they do and enjoy it. They will likely continue to dabble in it whether it is helping grandchildren repair their cars or helping friends when a pipe leaks. Those are skills that are easy to use outside of "work". A claims adjuster probably wont have many chances to use that experience and skill outside of "work." If he is motivated and has other hobbies and interests then that is fine, but many people probably just sit in front of a tv.

I think part-time work is a great idea as long as you actually like the work and it doesnt take away from things you really want to do. I also agree with people who rely on government to fund their retirement that the age should increase. If people are living longer, they can work a little longer (or become FI and retire whenever they want).

I think that is pretty patronizing, no?  Manual laborers and others are incapable of determining what they can do that will make them happy so you want to make the choice for them.  Very nice.  Its a goatse world these days, apparently.

That is not what i am saying at all. I am saying that some occupations develop skills that are more useful outside of making money. No one is trying to make a choice for anyone else. That is not to say that because you were a mechanic that you must continue to work on cars in retirement. You can do whatever you want.  I am saying that some people may find themselves bored after retirement and that part-time work may be enjoyable for them. I plan on doing this myself. Other people may not be bored and might have a lot of things they plan on doing in retirement

I guess the only choice I am trying to make for people is that the retirement age for social security  be raised because life expectancy is rising.

The age has been raised and a significant amount of SS is essentially means-tested (taxable if you make too much money).  If you keep raising the age you will have to figure out what to do about age discrimination and people who work in careers that are young mens' jobs.

The age has been raised for two reasons: people are living longer (so it has to pay out more than originally thought) and limited funds. 

The choice is between raising the age or lowering the amount distributed. 

We need to figure out the age discrimination anyways.  It is a problem whether the SS age is risen or not.  As for older people working young mens' jobs... why is that bad?  There are plenty of work options out there.  If they get one that is typically for young people, whatever.  I get that it pays less, but if they had extensive experience in something useful then they would easy be able to contract their services.  They only take "young mens' jobs" if they can't find something else. 

And it pushes the young people to be creative.  Look at all the fantastic content that has come from places like YouTube.  Do you know why that took off?  Because they weren't able to find other work.  So they made videos and music instead.  And several of them make a good amount.  Brand new job titles and businesses have come up because of the shortage of jobs.  It makes things hard, yes.  But people find a way.

I was stuck without a job and had to get creative.  So I know exactly what it feels like.  After I made it through, I started helping other people that were in the same boat.  Turns out most people have it drilled in that you have to work for someone as an employee.  They can't think of anything else.  And that is what you have to break them free of.

People are living longer? Significantly longer? Really? Or is that a meme? I think it's a meme.

The average age to death has increased. The primary reason for this is that less babies are dying. If you take out deaths from 0-2, the average age to death hasn't really changed that much in a long time. People aren't living longer, less people are dying as babies.

Statistics. You can make them say anything you want.

[kyleaaa]

The average age to death has increased. The primary reason for this is that less babies are dying. If you take out deaths from 0-2, the average age to death hasn't really changed that much in a long time. People aren't living longer, less people are dying as babies.

Statistics. You can make them say anything you want.

It's both, actually. Life expectancy at adulthood (21) and retirement age (65) is up pretty significantly since 1940: about 4-5 years. And it's up a LARGE amount since the signing of the Declaration of Independence.

In 1940, only  54% of men who reached 21 years of age could expect to reach 65. In 1990, 72% could.

The social security administration publishes these numbers.