Author Topic: Me being judgemental and a family friends story.  (Read 70018 times)

strider3700

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Me being judgemental and a family friends story.
« on: December 20, 2012, 11:07:08 AM »
I'm always nice with our family friends.  I offer advice if it looks like they're interested in it or they ask but I don't jam "you should do/act/be this way" comments down their throats.  I was reading the thread about judging others yesterday and I freely admit I judge others money habits.  I also discuss it with my wife.  It keeps us on board with our goals and stops us from making dumb decisions that our friends are.  I find it really useful to have the discussions when it comes to figuring out our money situation/goals/issues.  The most recent thing I had to share here though. I find their actions infuriating and venting here really helps.

Yesterday Our friend posted on facebook about how they're worried basically about money, she's not working, he's working but missed two days this week and they're now considering drastic action like him working out of the province to bring in some more money.

There's a huge back story here  but lets just list the last week and it's history.     Last summer when feeling depressed she spontaneously bought a $400 credit to a resort in mexico because it was half price. This went on the credit card of course.     Anyways back in october they realized the credit was going to expire and they'd be out the $400, so they started looking into everything else involved in a trip to mexico for 4 days.  Next thing we hear is they're going to mexico,  can we watch the kids for half of the trip while they're gone.    Ummm no we're both working... come to think of it shouldn't at least 1 of you be working and how much are the flights, if they're that cheap maybe we will go down to mexico.  My wife and I haven't been on a trip together ever actually so one day I'd like to do it.   Anyway it turns out that after everything else necessary was worked out they'd be out another $1200 for this trip to mexico.   When I hear about this I'm wondering where they will come up with an extra $1200 since their car did just break down and they  had to scramble to find $50 to tow it home. No it's still not repaired or even looked at.   My wife eventually can't take it and has a discussion with the wife and convinces her that they really can't afford to go to Mexico. Just write the $400 off as a learning experience to be framed and hung on the wall as a visual punch in the face reminder to think about your purchases...  End of story or so we though.

Jump ahead one month,   They found a way to transfer the credit to a closer resort.  travel would only be $250 to get there.   Do we want to go?  "sorry still working, and no we can't watch your kids..."     So they went to this ski resort which is unbelievably expensive  to even go in.  We got 4 days of facebook updates about amazing food,  booze, snowboarding,...   none of which was included in that $400 credit.   My wife figures everything above and beyond the travel would be near $1000.    They had a great time.

And now here we are 3 days after they get back and they're worried that his paycheck isn't as large as normal because he took 2 days off to go on this vacation... 

The worst part is they're taking zero responsibility for this.   They've decided that non of this is their fault or in their control (If my atheist ass hears god will provide from them one more time I'm going to lose it) and won't even take the simplest look at their habits to make changes.   I honestly think they should have spoken to a credit councillor to discuss bankruptcy a year or two ago,  but they just ignore the issue.   


bo_knows

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Re: Me being judgemental and a family friends story.
« Reply #1 on: December 20, 2012, 12:14:10 PM »
I've got nothing for you except nods of agreement, but this part cracked me the hell up.

(If my atheist ass hears god will provide from them one more time I'm going to lose it)

May his noodly appendage touch you with goodness this holiday season. rAmen.
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EngGirl

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Re: Me being judgemental and a family friends story.
« Reply #2 on: December 20, 2012, 01:48:21 PM »
Sorry to hear about your friends, but I like stories like this because they make me stop beating myself up for buying a bag of apples this week at the grocery store as a "splurge". Helps put things into perspective.

COguy

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Re: Me being judgemental and a family friends story.
« Reply #3 on: December 20, 2012, 01:51:42 PM »
Sorry to hear about your friends, but I like stories like this because they make me stop beating myself up for buying a bag of apples this week at the grocery store as a "splurge". Helps put things into perspective.

+1

I had to throw out some food yesterday because I am leaving town for 2 weeks.  Thanks EngGirl for showing me that I am doing okay in reducing my waste

noob515

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Re: Me being judgemental and a family friends story.
« Reply #4 on: December 20, 2012, 02:02:18 PM »
I've got nothing for you except nods of agreement, but this part cracked me the hell up.

(If my atheist ass hears god will provide from them one more time I'm going to lose it)

May his noodly appendage touch you with goodness this holiday season. rAmen.

Yup, this part was awesome.  I have heard many many people invoke God in the same manner.  I'm always tempted to respond like "yeah, but He already gave you a brain and common sense - what more do you want?".  Kind of like that story about the guy waiting for God to save him, and after he dies and goes to heaven, he asks God why He didn't save him, and God goes "I sent you a boat, I sent you a helicopter, I sent a man in a lifeboat, what more did you want?". 

I also like how they bought the $400 credit because it was half off, and TOTALLY disregarded how much additional money they would need to spend for the vacation.  A $400 coupon (that's what it was, right?) is awesome, who wouldn't want to save $400 off a vacation?  But if you don't have the money for the vacation, then the credit/coupon is worthless. 

I'm sure we all have friends/family members who are like this.  You just can't help people who refuse to help themselves. 

strider3700

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Re: Me being judgemental and a family friends story.
« Reply #5 on: December 20, 2012, 02:35:39 PM »
A $400 coupon (that's what it was, right?)

Basically.  As far as I understand it she paid for $800 worth of room credit at this resort and it only cost her $400  so  half price.   It was one of those groupon or equivalent deals.    This of course assumes that the room was really worth $800 for 4 or 5 nights,  whatever the original credit covered.    I see all inclusive's with flights listed for under $1000/person listed quite often. 

CNM

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Re: Me being judgemental and a family friends story.
« Reply #6 on: December 20, 2012, 03:47:47 PM »
That's annoying to hear someone complain about money but do nothing to help themselves.  Just remind yourself that its their life (lives) and there's nothing you can do. 

SwordGuy

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Re: Me being judgemental and a family friends story.
« Reply #7 on: December 20, 2012, 05:15:46 PM »
That's annoying to hear someone complain about money but do nothing to help themselves.  Just remind yourself that its their life (lives) and there's nothing you can do.

They posted on Facebook that they had a problem.  That can be considered a request for assistance, so you are clear to do something.

Sadly, speaking to them about it is unlikely to be successful because, for them to admit you are right, they have to first admit that they have been doing a host of stupid things.   Unlikely to happen.

However, since they are religious, give them an anonymous used copy of Ramsey's Total Money Makeover book.  It will cost you a few bucks.  Leave it on their doorstop or mail it to them.   They'll either read and act on it or not.  Either way, you're only out a few bucks and you've tried to help your friends.
It's one thing to admit to a total stranger who's famous that you're wrong (especially one who will reward you with attention) and quite another to hear a friend say that you're being stupid.

I know some of you on this forum are down on Ramsey, but he's really good at communicating to the religious groups.  Lots of churches offer his classes.  You can get a listing at his website online and include it with the book.

Hope that helps.

NWstubble

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Re: Me being judgemental and a family friends story.
« Reply #8 on: December 21, 2012, 12:52:20 AM »
However, since they are religious, give them an anonymous used copy of Ramsey's Total Money Makeover book.  It will cost you a few bucks.  Leave it on their doorstop or mail it to them.   They'll either read and act on it or not.  Either way, you're only out a few bucks and you've tried to help your friends.

+1
Match your message to your audience. They need basic PF help, debt snowball, monthly budget type info and a religious perspective sounds like it could help it go down easier.
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TomTX

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Re: Me being judgemental and a family friends story.
« Reply #9 on: December 28, 2012, 08:14:34 AM »

I know some of you on this forum are down on Ramsey, but he's really good at communicating to the religious groups.  Lots of churches offer his classes.  You can get a listing at his website online and include it with the book.

Hope that helps.

Ramsey is a great starter for personal finance, for those who have totally screwed up their financial lives.
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Erica/NWEdible

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Re: Me being judgemental and a family friends story.
« Reply #10 on: December 30, 2012, 01:25:15 AM »
Quote
If my atheist ass hears god will provide from them one more time I'm going to lose it/
Reminds me of an old, old joke:
There once was a man stranded in the middle of the ocean. His ship had sunk and he was left with nothing but the clothes on his back and a slowly deflating air tube. So in this hopeless situation, he prayed, "God, please bring me a miracle! Rescue me! Send angels to help me! Get me out of here!". No more than five minutes later, a boat came by to rescue the man; but the man didn't get in the boat. When asked to get in he simply replied, "I don't need your boat! God is going to save me". So the ship went on. Exactly an hour later, a helicopter flew right above the man. The man in the helicopter begged the desperate man to climb into the safe helicopter, but the man just replied, “No! God will provide!". So the helicopter went on. After another hour of floating aimlessly in the ocean, the man noticed a small island off in the distance. As he began to drift towards it he rapidly started paddling the opposite way, thinking, "I don't want to be on that island, God is going to save me!”. Shortly after that, the man drowns. Once he got through the pearly gates of heaven, he went straight up to God, infuriated about his death. "Why didn't you save me like I asked?", the man said in frustration. God just looked at the man, and replied, "Oh for F%$cks sake, I sent you a boat, a helicopter and an island! What more did you want?"

Quote
May his noodly appendage touch you with goodness this holiday season. rAmen.
Well punned, sir, well punned indeed.

strider3700

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Re: Me being judgemental and a family friends story.
« Reply #11 on: April 04, 2013, 04:04:51 PM »
The "Do you say anything topeople who spend foolishly" got me thinking about this post.  It's time for an update.

The couple in question hit some financial hard times about 2 months ago.   Her disability ended as did the grace period on payments to the credit cards.  It turns out that they hadn't been making payments for the last year because they were covered by some form of insurance.   

Also back in Feb she had to fly to a conference in texas for her side business.   I'm not sure she makes enough from the business to even cover the cost of the flight but whatever.  They planned a family trip as the husbands father lived near the conference area,  so he'd pay for the entire families flight down and they could stay with him.  Great, until the husband forgot to ask for time off work and couldn't go during the conference.  Instead the wife went to the conference and then flew home,  3 days later they all jumped on a plane to see grandpa for a week. 

This is when reality finally caught up with them.   They got home,   Husband had missed a weeks work,  mom had blown a couple of thousand at a conference,  all of the bills were sitting there and the credit cards were maxed out.  They had to borrow $20 from her mom to buy the kids milk.     

Sad to say but I thought this was a great thing.  Nothing like your kids going hungry to get your priorities straight right?  It also let me know I'm not crazy,  you can't spend way above your means forever and not have it come back to haunt you.  So off to a financial advisor they went. Financial advisor looked it all over and said they could consolidate debts and they would do it for only something like $2500.   This would lower payments and take some pressure off.

I offered to help make some suggestions on lowering some of their bills ($400/month electicity bill when my average is closer to $70 for similar sized houses...),  who knows how much on TV, netflix,vpn,...

jump ahead a week and the wife gets a new job.  It's not great but pays something and works schedule wise for her.   Excellent  so things are now moving in the right direction....   Two nights later I take my family out to dinner which is a rare event but I had just gotten a raise and wanted something special.   Get to the restaurant and there is the couple, and kids, and a table full of appetizers waiting for the main meal. 

Now here we are a couple of weeks later and they're trying to convince me to go somewhere nice with them because my wife and I never get away and we deserve it....


EMP

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Re: Me being judgemental and a family friends story.
« Reply #12 on: April 05, 2013, 11:34:30 AM »
They had to borrow $20 from her mom to buy the kids milk.     

Sad to say but I thought this was a great thing.  Nothing like your kids going hungry to get your priorities straight right?

Sounds like just thing thing to strengthen their faith in God.  :P

noob515

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Re: Me being judgemental and a family friends story.
« Reply #13 on: April 05, 2013, 11:56:47 AM »
...They had to borrow $20 from her mom to buy the kids milk.     

Sad to say but I thought this was a great thing.  Nothing like your kids going hungry to get your priorities straight right?  It also let me know I'm not crazy,  you can't spend way above your means forever and not have it come back to haunt you.  So off to a financial advisor they went. Financial advisor looked it all over and said they could consolidate debts and they would do it for only something like $2500.   This would lower payments and take some pressure off.

...jump ahead a week and the wife gets a new job.  It's not great but pays something and works schedule wise for her.   Excellent  so things are now moving in the right direction....   Two nights later I take my family out to dinner which is a rare event but I had just gotten a raise and wanted something special.   Get to the restaurant and there is the couple, and kids, and a table full of appetizers waiting for the main meal. 

Now here we are a couple of weeks later and they're trying to convince me to go somewhere nice with them because my wife and I never get away and we deserve it....

So the financial advisor is charging them $2500 to get their act together? 

Unfortunately it sounds like they haven't learned anything.  Now they are making more, they can just spend more!  I feel really bad for their kids.  Goodness knows what lessons they're learning. 

strider3700

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Re: Me being judgemental and a family friends story.
« Reply #14 on: April 05, 2013, 03:02:26 PM »
I think the $2500 was to cover fees with the mortgage.  My best guess is they would pay off the existing mortgage and then give them a new longer term mortgage stretched out to 30+ years instead of the original 20 or whatever they have left. A conventional lender can't give 30 year mortgages any longer but these debt companies can still do it somehow.   This coupled with any lowering in the balances/payments the CC companies would give them would give them a bunch more breathing room.   

The last personal I spoke to that sold these sort of things also did investing.  So what they would push was extend the mortgage, lower the payments as much as possible, then take a chunk of the extra saved and roll it into some high MER mutual funds.  This way the company could make the interest, make the MER fees and the customer would get a few hundred extra in their pocket each month to feel like they're doing better and look they're now saving for retirement!    how much went to retirement was entirely upto the client though so it was possible to waste your new found free cash rather then be smart and pay down the debt/invest it all.

Forcus

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Re: Me being judgemental and a family friends story.
« Reply #15 on: April 11, 2013, 10:46:51 AM »
This reminds me of my cousin, always posting on Facebook her (self-imposed) financial ills and then saying God will provide. Wanted to slap her a couple times but restrained myself..
Note, these opinions are from someone who is half-mustachian at best. Please consider my comments in that light.

momo

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Re: Me being judgemental and a family friends story.
« Reply #16 on: April 12, 2013, 09:46:49 AM »
That's annoying to hear someone complain about money but do nothing to help themselves.  Just remind yourself that its their life (lives) and there's nothing you can do.

I concur! And strider3700 I'd recommend taking it one step further, distancing yourself from these type of people or friends entirely. If their social media posts frustrate you, there are ways you can deselect seeing their facebook posts. And if they come around asking to fill you brain with negative garbage like pity parties and handouts, consider  shutting the door.

Sorry for the harshness for all our good intentions I am sure we can agree, we cannot help people who do not want to help themselves, right? With that in mind, you've done all you can and even if not, you are not their savior if they are not even open to accepting help from you.

I've had my share of irresponsible friends like these and they play the victim(s) well. In the end their mindset will only bring you down and infuriate you; so, cut the dead weight and preserve your sanity and happiness. Your time is too precious.
« Last Edit: April 12, 2013, 09:54:30 AM by Stashtastic Momo »

strider3700

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Re: Me being judgemental and a family friends story.
« Reply #17 on: May 27, 2013, 01:15:11 PM »
wow not even two months later  it's time for another update. 

 About a month ago I heard that the wife worked hard finding a way to cook a rewards program and was hoping for a $500 bonus.  After doing all of this she found out that the program was no longer in effect and didn't get it.  The amazing part was how she was planning on spending the $500.   A laptop for her and only her.   No need to share that other almost brand new computer  that sits idle in the dinning room 90% of the time.  Instead she could sit in the living room 20 feet away and "work".  Work in this case involves entering orders online...  Maybe a few dozen in a really really good week.  Before that she was thinking of getting a piece of jewelry since she worked so hard and it was her money...

Jump ahead to two weeks ago.  I went to a kids birthday party there.   Small modest affair. It made sense.    I was in the living room hanging out with the other adults and was floored by the conversations.

One lady's husband wanted to sign up to the military.  She wouldn't let him because he'd be away too much and wouldn't make enough.  Ok fine that makes sense it would be a low paying job.   Then she said if he was to sign up she'd want a brand new SUV, new bigger house and a trip to Mexico each year.  In the mean time she's unemployed sitting at home and complaining that he doesn't make enough.  Next she brought up that she needs $300.   $100 for a new nose stud.  Apparently a piece of metal for your nose it that much.  Next to get her hair re-dyed.  She used to be a hair stylist before staying home with the kids,  can't you dye your own?   ANd finally $100 to get a room at a B&B 50 minutes out of town as she's going out to a birthday party and won't want to drive home that late at night.   The Wife that I know immediately jumped in and said she'll be up there as well at a party that night.  Perhaps they could find a B&B that will give them a discount if they get 2 rooms.   No we could share a room,  no I can drive you back, no maybe you shouldn't be going out to party tonight when you don't have any money.   Also who gives discounts to people who are desperately trying to find a room or two at the last moment?   

After that I wandered to the kitchen for a bit.  There one guy was discussing taking time off work but that made things really really tight so he was taking money from his RRSP's (Canadian Registered retirement savings plan) to help get by.   I'd guess he was Late 40's early 50's.    Definitely not at the point that he should be taking his retirement money out rather then working.

3 days after this party  the family needed to borrow $150 from her parents to pay for groceries. 

About a week later the wife of the original couple  in my story mentioned that their roof needs replaced. It does and would be the highest on my list.  It's also not a simple roof, so Even having done a few roofs I wouldn't consider taking this one on.  Lots and lots of flashing, valleys,...    So the wife is going to pull money from her RRSP to get it done.   

Last night their 1 remaining car broke down.   The other one that broke down in my first post  sat in the drive way for months until one of the windows slipped down a bit and the rain started to come in.  When they noticed months later the entire interior had rotted and it got towed away for scrap.   They compensated by him taking home a work van.  Both vehicles have died due to lack of maintenance would be my bet. They never do anything with them short of put gas in.

So now they have no vehicles, not enough income, no "regular" savings, are depleting their retirement income, have a house needing thousands in repairs and still spend more then I do with more then double their income.  The wife would like to get together with my wife to have a stress relieving break.  She would like my wife to pick her up and they can go for coffee because when you have serious money issues nothing is better then dropping $20 on a few hours at a coffee shop complaining about money.









gooki

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Re: Me being judgemental and a family friends story.
« Reply #18 on: May 28, 2013, 03:46:59 AM »
It's like a Shakespearian tragedy.
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Rollin

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Re: Me being judgemental and a family friends story.
« Reply #19 on: May 28, 2013, 06:21:13 AM »
It's like a Shakespearian tragedy.

Agreed.  Please keep the stories coming.  I have no TV and this is entertaining (although I could do the same writing for a few in my life).
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Paul der Krake

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Re: Me being judgemental and a family friends story.
« Reply #20 on: May 28, 2013, 06:37:19 AM »
We need a musical adaptation.

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Re: Me being judgemental and a family friends story.
« Reply #21 on: May 28, 2013, 07:37:33 AM »
I feel so bad for their kids.  I hated growing up in a house, where my parents were always worried about money.
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olivia

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Re: Me being judgemental and a family friends story.
« Reply #22 on: May 28, 2013, 08:24:43 AM »
I had an acquaintance exactly like your friends.  I got so sick of her crying poor right after she bought an iPad for her 3 year old that eventually I started saying "Why don't you sell X, Y or Z that you just bought?" whenever she would complain about being broke.  Then I just unfriended her on Facebook because I couldn't deal with her anymore.  Oh and this was well before I found MMM...maybe I was more mustachian than I thought!  :P
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ghaynes

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Re: Me being judgemental and a family friends story.
« Reply #23 on: May 28, 2013, 11:25:21 AM »
Can't wait till the next update...



strider3700

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Re: Me being judgemental and a family friends story.
« Reply #24 on: May 28, 2013, 01:53:16 PM »
Sadly I expect the end of the story is clear.  If for any reason they ever fail to get students renting their basement  their income will be cut by about 40%.  They will be forced into bankruptcy, probably have to sell the house at a loss, and I have no idea where they will go.   I feel bad for their kids. Hell I feel bad for all of them.  They're nice people. They're just absolutely completely moronic when it comes to money.

  I think that the majority of their friends are the same way so they think what's going on is normal.   Hell maybe that is the new normal.  A lot of the numbers coming out of Canada are brutal.   The debt levels of the average person is insane,  the savings rate is pathetic.  I believe the savings rate of my province is still negative. Home ownership is at record highs and most people have the vast majority of their net worth in their houses.   The economy is shaky and could easily get worse as housing slows down. 

NestEggChick (formerly PFgal)

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Re: Me being judgemental and a family friends story.
« Reply #25 on: June 09, 2013, 09:06:20 AM »
If my atheist ass hears god will provide from them one more time I'm going to lose it

I'm not religious, but my response would be, "God did provide. God gave you health and the ability to work, which not everyone has. It's up to you to do something with those gifts."

I get annoyed too when people refuse to take responsibility for their own actions. It's so convenient to assume someone/something else will take care of you, but it just doesn't work that way.
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Aloysius_Poutine

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Re: Me being judgemental and a family friends story.
« Reply #26 on: June 09, 2013, 11:03:36 AM »
Sadly I expect the end of the story is clear.  If for any reason they ever fail to get students renting their basement  their income will be cut by about 40%.  They will be forced into bankruptcy, probably have to sell the house at a loss, and I have no idea where they will go.   I feel bad for their kids. Hell I feel bad for all of them.  They're nice people. They're just absolutely completely moronic when it comes to money.

  I think that the majority of their friends are the same way so they think what's going on is normal.   Hell maybe that is the new normal.  A lot of the numbers coming out of Canada are brutal.   The debt levels of the average person is insane,  the savings rate is pathetic.  I believe the savings rate of my province is still negative. Home ownership is at record highs and most people have the vast majority of their net worth in their houses.   The economy is shaky and could easily get worse as housing slows down.
So many of my friends/acquaintances here in Victoria are exactly the same way. It would be comical if it wasn't so sad and common. A young family I know with 2 kids, a stay at home mom and a Dad who was largely unemployed the last 4 years but just started his own business-- just got a $100k settlement from a car accident. Rather than pay off credit card debt, or put it onto the mortgage (which is at $400k!... and his father in law took over title because they couldn't afford it anymore), they put that money into brand new exercise machines, a trip to hawaii, and unnecessarily fancy home renovations by a hired contractor. It makes me want to pull my hair out! Instead of improving their situation they just accumulated some more junk and are now in basically the same position as before.

RetiredAt63

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Re: Me being judgemental and a family friends story.
« Reply #27 on: June 09, 2013, 02:05:56 PM »
Sounds like Gail could do a whole season of Money Morons just on Vancouver Island  ;-)
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Re: Me being judgemental and a family friends story.
« Reply #28 on: June 09, 2013, 03:05:17 PM »
Wow. Just... wow. O_o

Strider3700, please tell us that this is just a very elaborate prank and part of your creative writing routine. Please?.. Because otherwise this really is like an ancient tragedy. Does that family post all of their financial woes on facebook or do you know it all because you're their friend? If it's the former, it's even sadder.
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strider3700

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Re: Me being judgemental and a family friends story.
« Reply #29 on: June 10, 2013, 10:26:59 AM »
Gail could easily do a whole season here. Housing is very expensive compared to the average income. Almost everyone got into the market a few years back so $300k mortgages with $50K income is a common situation.  This leads to some really ugly situations and mustachianism is necessary just to survive long term.

We know because they tell us. They post requests for prayers on facebook now and again usually related to illness or stress issues which when you know the rest of the story are related to money but no real money details.    They do post the spending on facebook though.   So we'll hear all about how they had to borrow money, are  having trouble at work, have a giant expense coming up.  The next day We'll see posts on facebook about the cool new cafe they took the kids to, or the planned vacation/get away and how with the coupon and only being a night or two it's really inexpensive.

My wife and I have been doing the math trying to fill in the details we haven't been told.  We put their before tax income at roughly $45k-50k now that both are working again.  The renters, there can be two, in the basement each provide $400 if it's just for the room  $800 if they're being fed.   At the moment they have a single $400 student. So another $3600.    They have mentioned that they'd be happy with my mortgage payment   which is $1300/month after property taxes are taken into account.  I believe they're closer to $1600 as their house cost more then mine and they had less to put down.

The have maxed out CC's they're making payments on.  I have no idea how much.

The broken down car is back on the road.  Apparently it'll be $900 to replace the fuel pump.  It works "most of the time" and only leaves them stranded now and again so they're driving it.  They are however wanting to replace it with a new car. 

I believe I've previously mentioned that the roof on the house needs replaced.  They'll be pulling the RRSP's to pay for it. Rather then just take the smack and pay the tax on the RRSP they want to take an RRSP loan to pay back the RRSP.   These are commonly offered by the banks to top up your RRSP's if you weren't smart and invested all year long and instead just need to put some in for the tax benefits at the last moment and don't actually have savings.   The math on emptying your RRSP then borrowing money to put it back in is not obvious but I fail to see how this comes out ahead. My only thought is they don't qualify for a normal loan to spend on the house but may qualify for RRSP loans.  Don't know.

Albert

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Re: Me being judgemental and a family friends story.
« Reply #30 on: June 13, 2013, 12:26:34 PM »
Basically this couple are trying to live an upper middle class life on a lower middle class income. That can only end in a disaster in the longer run. It is an entertaining read, so please do continue posting updates. I know some people who are not good with money, but no one this extreme.

kms

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Re: Me being judgemental and a family friends story.
« Reply #31 on: June 13, 2013, 03:27:42 PM »
Maybe this is too harsh but I caught myself laughing at that blatant stupidity displayed by your friends. It surely doesn't sound like there's any way out other than bankruptcy.
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strider3700

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Re: Me being judgemental and a family friends story.
« Reply #32 on: June 13, 2013, 03:42:11 PM »
bankruptcy won't do away with their mortgage debt here.   If they give up/lose the house they still owe the difference after the house is sold and the proceeds are put to their mortgage.   It may take some pressure off but won't fix things.  When they do get things going their way they seem to always use the winfall to reward themselves and are instantly back in the hole.  I don't see any way out at all if they don't change their way of thinking.

jamccain

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Re: Me being judgemental and a family friends story.
« Reply #33 on: June 14, 2013, 12:51:38 AM »
I think you're neighbors are my parents....

My parents are SO BAD, they have gotten $100K windfalls TWICE and today they *might* have $20K in total net worth (in their 50s).  They paid $35K for their house back in 1983 and owe $90K on it today in 2013.  My mother is the caretaker for my grandmother...90 days after my grandmother passes away (which could be at any time) my parents will be in foreclosure on the house that should be paid off THIS MONTH if they had stuck to the original 30 year mortgage.  They have given 10% of everything they have ever made to the local church, but haven't paid themselves 1% in the way of retirement income.  They spend a lot of money because "they deserve it" or "it was on sale". 

I asked my mom if she won $10M in the lottery if she would be broke in five years...her answer "Yes."

My mom thinks I have money because I "got an education" and "can make money".  She likes to take FULL CREDIT for the fact both my sister and I got degrees.  She takes ZERO credit for being broke.  My freshman year in college my parents spent $30K on remodeling the house and landscaping (in the 90s).  They gave me $1K the entire year for one semester of my dorm room.  My sophomore year I didn't get a penny, not that they owed it to me.  By my Jr year, Uncle Sam ended up paying for the rest of it and grad school.  My point, is don't take ALL the credit for it because I'm pretty sure I did ALL the work.

We don't really discuss money anymore.  I can't handle the stress and their is NOTHING you can say to show them the light.  I honestly think for SOME people it's a mental deficiency.  Some people just don't know any better, the kind of people we're talking about just can't help it.  They are born to be poor. 

russianswinga

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Re: Me being judgemental and a family friends story.
« Reply #34 on: June 14, 2013, 10:08:40 AM »
The unfortunate thing is that because they are your parents, when the **it hits the fan for them financially, you will probably end up footing the bill for making sure they don't starve in retirement.

Maigahane

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Re: Me being judgemental and a family friends story.
« Reply #35 on: June 27, 2013, 03:44:38 PM »
Holy cow I feel for you on so many levels. I'm an accountant so I get to hear lots of friends money woes in more detail than I think I other wise would have. I generally try to avoid talking about money but will if they bring it up (and as an atheist myself I *cringe* at the "god will provide* and tithing while in a financial emergency too). Here is a sampling of the shit I've heard in just the last year:

I didn't file my taxes for FOUR YEARS because I was behind on my student loans and didn't want my wages garnished (yeah....didn't follow that logic either). I was able to go back and get his refund for 3 of the years but he lost one by waiting too long.
Same guy: borrowed from his 401k for his wedding...to a woman he admits isn't right for him and the best thing he can say about her is that he likes her son (he's in his 30's and afraid of never getting married I think). And he just bought a house too *sigh*

A couple working on declaring bankruptcy: they own two vehicles from the late 90's or early 2000's and rent their house. The guy has a BS so probably student loans but they don't go away with bk. They drive ~30 miles EACH WAY just to go to church every Sunday and can't even sit through service because their toddler sons are...well toddlers. Wife just got a part time job and posted on FB yesterday that since she's basically working full time the next 5 weeks she's booking a Vegas trip when it's done and hubby agreed.
Same couple had tax issues a couple of years ago and owe the IRS. I told them something they could do to amend that year and reduce what they owe...offered to do it and I don't think it got done.

Another couple owes more on their student loans now then when they graduated in the EIGHTIES. So what do they do? Buy a brand new SUV and take out a 401k loan for flight lessons. Oh and btw it's not their fault they owe so much on their student loans, it's the loan companies and they would not believe me that their subsidized loans would still have accrued interest for the TEN YEARS they weren't paying on them at all because because being subsidized only helps in a deferrment (in-school) not a forebearance (economic hardship).

They're all great people and as long as money (...or politics) isn't brought up I enjoy hanging out with them but I want to punch them in the face when I hear this shit

ender

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Re: Me being judgemental and a family friends story.
« Reply #36 on: June 27, 2013, 04:28:52 PM »
Tell Christians who are morons with their money, "God gave you the book of Proverbs. It's not His fault you didn't read it."

As a Christian it bothers me to no end when people invoke the "God will take care of me" card when they are acting in utterly foolish and irresponsible manners, in particular when it's directly in contrast to what the Bible says about subjects. Money is one such subject.

oldtoyota

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Re: Me being judgemental and a family friends story.
« Reply #37 on: June 27, 2013, 05:09:19 PM »
That sounds frustrating. It was nice of your wife to try and reason with the people. I am judgmental (all the time), and I think humans are that way. It's completely normal. One just doesn't want to be a jerk, and you guys sound to me like you were not jerks at all.

When people do dumb things and then **complain**, that is the most frustrating.

I have a friend who will spend $50 on a dinner (ordering wine, of course) and then tell me she has saved nothing for retirement.

jamccain

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Re: Me being judgemental and a family friends story.
« Reply #38 on: June 27, 2013, 10:19:40 PM »
Tell Christians who are morons with their money, "God gave you the book of Proverbs. It's not His fault you didn't read it."

As a Christian it bothers me to no end when people invoke the "God will take care of me" card when they are acting in utterly foolish and irresponsible manners, in particular when it's directly in contrast to what the Bible says about subjects. Money is one such subject.

Agreed.

Maigahane

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Re: Me being judgemental and a family friends story.
« Reply #39 on: June 28, 2013, 08:15:12 AM »
Luckily none of my friends are of the "god will provide" mentality when it comes to their finances.

However, for those of you that have *those* friends you can refer them to Dave Ramsey. He's very religious (hell he recomends tithing even when in a debt/financial emergency) but his philosophy is that we are caretakers of God's money and we must be good stewards of that money... yeah, doesn't make a lick of sense to me but a lot of people seem to buy it. Also the bible apparently repeatedly says bad things about debt (debtors are slaves to creditors, etc) so if they listen to him they can get themselves on track "for god"

strider3700

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Re: Me being judgemental and a family friends story.
« Reply #40 on: September 14, 2013, 12:53:42 PM »
After a quiet summer of nothing much to report things have taken a much more serious turn.

The car is back to breaking down.   They're thinking they have to get a new one.  By "new" I'm sure it'll be used but it'll probably be from a dealer and will likely be newer then anything I'm driving.   I think their old one is about the same age as my wifes which is way newer then mine.

The roof didn't get done. I don't know the reason why. I assumed money, they blamed timing as the guy that was going to do it got busy with work.

The above and beyond spending appeared to slow down. Having said that when we invited them over for a potluck/BBQ the meat they brought was amazing from a high end deli/butcher.  It made my generic grocery store stuff with the 50% off because it's about to go bad sticker look bad.   In the end we both had the same thing and they both looked about the same when cooked just I got twice as much for half the price after the discount.  If they eat like that all the time I'd go broke on the food bill

The husband has been complaining about his work schedule.  I would as well.  He's on the road a hell of a lot and pulling some shifts that are questionably legal.  Things like driving for 8 hours to get to the job site then working all night...   He'll be on the road more then he'll be home for the next few months.  I don't remember if I mentioned it but last spring he was thinking about taking camp jobs out of province.  THey decided against it because he'd be gone so much.    Now he's gone that much and making 1/3 the pay.

There was a family tragedy that affected the mom.  She's not been quite the same ever since.  Add that in with health issues, the stress of the money issues, everything else that's going on and she's starting to break down.   After mentioning it to a doctor they wanted to prescribe ativan to help deal with the anxiety and gave her deep breath exercises.   She later admitted to driving down the highway and seriously thinking about just driving across the median into oncoming traffic. So it's off to the psychologist for her.  I'm hoping that those costs are covered as they're low enough income.    How that is going to play out I don't know.   I'm guessing she'll be told to reduce her stress.  How to do that without cutting back on work and income I don't know. 

After spending the last few years wondering how the can keep things going when they're obviously living way beyond their means I think we're starting to see the end.   It's going to take a big miracle to save what they've got at this point. 

shortly

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Re: Me being judgemental and a family friends story.
« Reply #41 on: September 16, 2013, 05:05:53 PM »
This has been kinda like watching a car wreck in slow motion.  You hate to see it happen to anyone but it's hard not to watch when it does.  Every time I hear of a story like this it makes me want to review my own situation to see if there's anything else I can cut... 


Adventine

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Re: Me being judgemental and a family friends story.
« Reply #42 on: September 17, 2013, 08:21:16 AM »
After spending the last few years wondering how the can keep things going when they're obviously living way beyond their means I think we're starting to see the end.   It's going to take a big miracle to save what they've got at this point.

You're right, it seems like the party's finally coming to an end. But maybe they need to hit bottom first before they realize all the stupid shit they've done to themselves.

kms

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Re: Me being judgemental and a family friends story.
« Reply #43 on: September 19, 2013, 02:04:35 AM »
Sometimes rock bottom is the only way out, and in this case it sounds they're about to hit it.
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strider3700

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Re: Me being judgemental and a family friends story.
« Reply #44 on: November 13, 2013, 02:54:36 PM »
another 2 months have passed.   Apparently god does provide.   

Someone gave them a newer vehicle.  It's about 10 years old and has almost 300k on it but it's a dealer maintained Toyota so it's in my opinion almost brand new.   The person heard they were having car trouble and gave it to them rather then getting almost nothing as a trade in on a brand new one.  It's nicer then my vehicle. 

So I went good you're saved  that's awesome.  Not much else was heard.   Husband is out of town working almost constantly wife does her thing and I was thinking maybe they're digging there way out. Slowly,   probably so slow it'll never actually finish  but at least in the right direction.  I did find out they make just under 40k which frankly I have no idea how they can do what they do on that.

Now as an aside next summer my wife and I are going away to an event.  it's an all day thing, so head over the night before, leave the morning/afternoon after.   2 nights in a hotel in a rather expensive location.   It's one of those life goals of my wife (apparently my only life goal is to be able to say FU to the boss sit at home and have a beer while watching my money make more money then I need)     Anyway the trip will probably be $500-$600 plus hotel for two nights.   Being that we know a bunch of people going we shacked up with others and will cram as many people into where we're staying as we can get away with.  I think it's 4 couples.  that will cut down on the hotel rooms because if we got an individual one it would be $200 a night at least.  End of aside.

I just found out that the friend  was thinking about buying tickets to a concert 2 days before the event.  She was holding off until the husband hears about a different job he applied for.  Ok, even with the raise he may get you can't afford that.  I then heard she bought the tickets. Oh he got the job?   No they aren't hiring now she bought the tickets anyways.  I figured this was coming up because she was wanting babysitting while at the concert.  I was wrong.   She has signed her husband up to go to this event as well.   they'll go over and spend 5 days in their own hotel room, do the concert do the event and then come home.  Won't that be fun we can take the same boat back.

And now not a day later we hear she's being laid off.  Work dried up at the job she had found. 

Should be an interesting infuriating christmas season.







brewer12345

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Re: Me being judgemental and a family friends story.
« Reply #45 on: November 13, 2013, 03:01:25 PM »
(apparently my only life goal is to be able to say FU to the boss sit at home and have a beer while watching my money make more money then I need)   

Hahahahaha!!!!  I love it.  Never seen it put down so succinctly.
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acroy

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Re: Me being judgemental and a family friends story.
« Reply #46 on: November 13, 2013, 03:08:31 PM »
another 2 months have passed.   Apparently god does provide.   
 

Should be an interesting infuriating christmas season.

LOL - get new friends. These are raising your blood pressure & costing years off your life!!
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Norrie

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Re: Me being judgemental and a family friends story.
« Reply #47 on: November 14, 2013, 07:58:45 AM »
Ah, sweet Jesus.
I will admit to being a total booger-eating moron (thanks, Frankie's Girl! Totally fits) with our money from about 1996-2010. Many of these stories of shame about friends could have applied to us perfectly, and I really don't have a justification for it. The best that I can say is that we lived with our heads solidly buried in sand, and our lives were so shit with health crises that we wanted any joy out of life that we could find, even when it meant spending stupid amounts of money that we didn't have. I'm sure many of our friends had tons of WTF are they thinking conversations.

But look at us now! We're still learning, but we've got our shit pretty tight. So it is totally possible that one day your friends may pull a 180.

It makes me sad for the kids, because history has a way of repeating itself. Now that our kids have learned the basic social skills and are awesome humans, we feel like our biggest responsibility to them is teaching them money management. Our daughter is old enough to remember the dark days, but she's also mature enough to understand compound interest.

It seems like one of the main problems with your friends situation is that they keep being bailed out (as were we). They need to fall flat and hard on their asses and reach rock bottom to start to take things more seriously.

strider3700

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Re: Me being judgemental and a family friends story.
« Reply #48 on: December 15, 2013, 01:54:42 PM »
Another month and a serious need to vent.

The friends have family who recently had a tragedy. Very sad for everyone involved. That family got an apartment but are on welfare and as the friends told us they have nothing and only have $150 left over each month after paying for rent.  For christmas my wife and I tend to pick a family in need and donate to them.  This year my wife decided it would be that family and went off on a campaign to help them out.  I was not optimistic as this family made their own problems. Call my judgemental but went you've fried your own brain to the point you can't even read anymore  I'm not overly wanting to help you out.   

So today was the drop off day of what we collected.   We were told they had nothing so we got couches, and furniture and a TV and close to $1k in food and gift cards. It wouldn't all fit in 2 trucks. We get there and take the couch up and I see the apartment for the first time.    Some peoples definitions of "nothing" are radically different then mine.     That place had more and better furniture then I had until my 3rd year of owning a house.    I had to move 3 sets of speakers to get the couch in.    On the whiteboard was a note about how cable is being hooked up on friday. I don't have cable to this day.  I went from not overjoyed to you have to be fucking kidding me.   

I see it as we've just spent the last month busting our ass doing charity for a family that didn't deserve it and didn't need it.

Anyway I'm done with this entire thing.   As was pointed out by others a long time ago  these people aren't  worth the stress to know.   My wife is friends with them and I don't see her writing them off but we'll see.   My wife is almost always optimistic but even she was pissed off to the point of crying.


Paul der Krake

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Re: Me being judgemental and a family friends story.
« Reply #49 on: December 15, 2013, 02:37:39 PM »
So what happened to everything you brought over to their house?