Marco Rubio: Knows NOTHING About Personal Finance

[Rpesek6904]

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/10/us/politics/marco-rubio-finances-debt-loans-credit.html?_r=0

I guess I don't care what everyone's politics are, but I'm counting this as an immediate disqualifier. Three houses, a boat, an audi, student loans, credit card debt, co-mingling, finances - just wow.

[Ohio Teacher]

Someone else beat you to it by about 2 hours:
http://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/antimustachian-wall-of-shame-and-comedy/america's-political-leadership/

And yes, if you can't manage your own personal finances, you have no business telling others how to manage theirs.

[slugline]

There's enough corruption in politics as it is. Someone who is jonesing for the next payout has got to be especially vulnerable to being swayed by moneyed interests.

[jinga nation]

Between him and his wife, 17 speeding tickets... giving a lot of coin back to local gub'mint.

I wonder if he counts that as a donation on his 1040.

[MgoSam]

Between him and his wife, 17 speeding tickets...

You gotta imagine the real number might be way higher had he not been a politician with some power.

[MgoSam]

Yeah, honestly I don't know why this guy is running for president other than ego. He has done in the senate and shows absolutely no maturity.

[Patrick A]

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/10/us/politics/marco-rubio-finances-debt-loans-credit.html?_r=0

I guess I don't care what everyone's politics are, but I'm counting this as an immediate disqualifier. Three houses, a boat, an audi, student loans, credit card debt, co-mingling, finances - just wow.

Came here to post the same article. 

It boggles me that heads of companies and leading politicians can have such trouble balancing their own finances.  Politically this is a problem because it opens him up to all sorts of potential corruption when the payments on his three houses and ridiculous speedboat (and everything else) overwhelms him.  I agree it is an immediate dis-qualifier as well.  The lack of self control and other shady dealings seem to tell a more truthful story than the "carefully" constructed political facade.

Having people who run the finances of large companies (or countries) but can't balance their personal budget is also ridiculously mind boggling.

I can't even . . .

[College Stash]

Not sure who is the least tolerable of Rick Santorum, Ted Cruz, Michelle Bauchman, Marco Rubio, and Rick Perry. Good god what a joke. These people make Jeb Bush look good even.

[tod]

It's no coincidence that he has terrible financial habits and is seeking political power. Like most politicians, he has an unending hunger for more power, more wealth, more notoriety. Who is more likely to win an election: a calm, rational person who lives below his means, or an ambitious power luster who is so greedy for cars, houses, money, status, and the good life, that he will also smile and shake hands and say whatever he has to say to get into office?

[rob in cal]

Am I the only one on this board who thinks that a typical gung-ho mustachian saver would make a great Republican candidate, because they could stress debt free living, building wealth through investing in private companies etc, etc, in other words a living, walking breathing example of how the US economy can work for people if you make some good decisions.  Rubio seems like an example of typical cronyism and living beyond one's means.

[KCM5]

Am I the only one on this board who thinks that a typical gung-ho mustachian saver would make a great Republican candidate, because they could stress debt free living, building wealth through investing in private companies etc, etc, in other words a living, walking breathing example of how the US economy can work for people if you make some good decisions.  Rubio seems like an example of typical cronyism and living beyond one's means.

Except I'd bet that the typical gung-ho mustachian saver is just as likely to be liberal as conservative.

[Bardo]

Am I the only one on this board who thinks that a typical gung-ho mustachian saver would make a great Republican candidate, because they could stress debt free living, building wealth through investing in private companies etc, etc, in other words a living, walking breathing example of how the US economy can work for people if you make some good decisions.  Rubio seems like an example of typical cronyism and living beyond one's means.

I should think a true gung-ho mustachian saver would be on a relatively low-information diet and not obsessing over things like politics that contribute little to one's well-being.

[Chris22]

Am I the only one on this board who thinks that a typical gung-ho mustachian saver would make a great Republican candidate, because they could stress debt free living, building wealth through investing in private companies etc, etc, in other words a living, walking breathing example of how the US economy can work for people if you make some good decisions.  Rubio seems like an example of typical cronyism and living beyond one's means.

Stressing FI good for a GOP candidate?  Yes
Living like a mustachian?  That doesn't appeal to most people.  Especially all the enviromental bullshit.  Ride a bike all the time?  Squeeze my whole family into some Toyota Yaris shitbox to get 5mpg better?  Hell no.

[TreeTired]

      It's a hard choice to make between the politician like Rubio who obviously is going to need more and more money and every action will need to be scrutinized under the possibility that it is motivated by bribery,   and the super wealthy candidate who will likely act in the interest of money, but at least -  you think -  he cannot be bought.  Tough choice, but I will go with the wealthy guy.   That was the "one good thing"  I had to recommend Jon Corzine (very wealthy) when he was running for Governor and Senator of/from  New Jersey.    At least he couldn't be bought.   Problem was, he thought he could buy others... and, oh yeah,  he turned out to be a criminal.

[Kris]

Am I the only one on this board who thinks that a typical gung-ho mustachian saver would make a great Republican candidate, because they could stress debt free living, building wealth through investing in private companies etc, etc, in other words a living, walking breathing example of how the US economy can work for people if you make some good decisions.  Rubio seems like an example of typical cronyism and living beyond one's means.

Except I'd bet that the typical gung-ho mustachian saver is just as likely to be liberal as conservative.

Quite so.

[trailrated]

I consider myself relatively right wing on most issues (minus quite a few social issues) and I have to say this is a deal breaker for me.

On a funny note I am not sure what the left would see as being worse... being a part of the 1% or drowning in debt. ;). Thanks for the post!

[Kris]

I consider myself relatively right wing on most issues (minus quite a few social issues) and I have to say this is a deal breaker for me.

On a funny note I am not sure what the left would see as being worse... being a part of the 1% or drowning in debt. ;). Thanks for the post!

I'm so far left you can only see me if you're cool. And I have no problem with someone being part of the 1%. Why would I? 

[trailrated]

I consider myself relatively right wing on most issues (minus quite a few social issues) and I have to say this is a deal breaker for me.

On a funny note I am not sure what the left would see as being worse... being a part of the 1% or drowning in debt. ;). Thanks for the post!

I'm so far left you can only see me if you're cool. And I have no problem with someone being part of the 1%. Why would I?

On that note, I think we found something to cheers over!

[Iron Mike Sharpe]

Am I the only one on this board who thinks that a typical gung-ho mustachian saver would make a great Republican candidate, because they could stress debt free living, building wealth through investing in private companies etc, etc, in other words a living, walking breathing example of how the US economy can work for people if you make some good decisions.  Rubio seems like an example of typical cronyism and living beyond one's means.

Sounds more like Libertarian than anything else.

[Norioch]

I'm on the left and I have no problem with being in the 1%, if the money was earned honestly and is not used to oppress others. I'm totally fine with Bill Gates and Warren Buffet, for example. The Koch brothers, not so much.

[Cougar]

Yeah, honestly I don't know why this guy is running for president other than ego. He has done in the senate and shows absolutely no maturity.

he made it speaker of the florida house, so he's got some political abilty; but he's going to get eaten up on the national stage. its obvious. he need a lot more seasoning on the national level, maybe 2020 or 2024; he'll have mastered it.

I don't like Obama at all policy wise, but he was ready to run for president in 2008 even though he barely dipped a toe in the senate; he made almost zero mistakes and handled every controversy very well.

[Kris]

Am I the only one on this board who thinks that a typical gung-ho mustachian saver would make a great Republican candidate, because they could stress debt free living, building wealth through investing in private companies etc, etc, in other words a living, walking breathing example of how the US economy can work for people if you make some good decisions.  Rubio seems like an example of typical cronyism and living beyond one's means.

Sounds more like Libertarian than anything else.

I really fail to see how any of these things is exclusive to a political party -- or even that it's political at all. 

[Pooperman]

I'm left pretty much (for social and environmental reasons). Not being able to handle personal finance is bad. Very bad. If one cannot use the system to his/her advantage, then they do not understand it. If they do not understand it, they cannot hope to make the necessary changes without blowing the whole endeavor. I'd rather a solvent person who is not in need of money (who cannot be bought) but also one who is not Jon Corrine like someone above said... Why do I live in a NJ again? Oh right. Because it's $500/month cheaper than NY. Stuck in the Texas of the north...

Would not vote for Rubio (or any republican candidate that could win the nomination). Social and environmental are not the republican strong suits right now.

[Wilson Hall]

This is the part that totally floors me:

Little of Mr. Rubio’s income at this time went into savings. An analysis of his financial disclosures by Jude Boudreaux, a longtime financial planner and an adjunct professor at Loyola University New Orleans teaching personal finance, shows that Mr. Rubio earned $2.38 million from 1998 to 2008 but ended up with an estimated net worth of $53,000 (slightly more than Mr. Rubio disclosed himself). His savings rate during that period was about 2 percent.

During this same decade, I made a total of about 15% of his earnings, was single for most of that time, had a mortgage, student loans, and a car payment. Yet my net worth was slightly higher than his at the beginning of 2008.

So much for fiscal conservatism.

[scottish]

We get the same thing up here.   The nominally 'conservative' politicians are the worst of the bunch for financial management, ethics, reform and so on.

[ShoulderThingThatGoesUp]

Can we talk about Hillary Clinton owning two houses and claiming they were broke?

While we're showing our colors, I'm probably voting for Rand Paul. You could probably have guessed something like that from Googling my username...

[Bob W]

Marco who?  He has zero percent chance of winning,  but could be VP material.

[DaveInVirginia]

I posted about this two weeks ago, got yelled at, and had my thread moved to "Other".  It did start an interesting discussion, though. 

http://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/off-topic/marco-rubio-decidedly-not-mustachian/

I'm voting Hillary only because Elizabeth Warren isn't running, but one Republican I have a lot of respect for is Mick Cornett, mayor of Oklahoma City. 

[milesdividendmd]

      It's a hard choice to make between the politician like Rubio who obviously is going to need more and more money and every action will need to be scrutinized under the possibility that it is motivated by bribery,   and the super wealthy candidate who will likely act in the interest of money, but at least -  you think -  he cannot be bought.  Tough choice, but I will go with the wealthy guy.   That was the "one good thing"  I had to recommend Jon Corzine (very wealthy) when he was running for Governor and Senator of/from  New Jersey.    At least he couldn't be bought.   Problem was, he thought he could buy others... and, oh yeah,  he turned out to be a criminal.

These are not the only options.

You could be a self made man, born with an absentee Kenyan father in a single parent household without means who rises to prominence on the basis of your own talent and hard work.

You could still have integrity, and not display poor impulse control.

You could make wise personal financial decisions and advocate for common sense policies for others like access to health care, progressive taxation, and a carbon tax...

Or you could be the son of privilege who hires a Halliburton exec to be his VP, and then subjects his country to a corrupt and tragic war in the Mideast, (much to the benefit of ...Halliburton) and all while advocating for policies that benefit others of privilege at the expense of everyone else.

There are so many options!

Full disclosure: I'm a 1%er.

[Spud]

It's no coincidence that he has terrible financial habits and is seeking political power. Like most politicians, he has an unending hunger for more power, more wealth, more notoriety. Who is more likely to win an election: a calm, rational person who lives below his means, or an ambitious power luster who is so greedy for cars, houses, money, status, and the good life, that he will also smile and shake hands and say whatever he has to say to get into office?

Slightly off topic:

I'm convinced that this is also the reason why the idiots who are drowning in debt are also the most motivated in the office. They've never thought of playing better financial defense. Better offense is the only way they can think of getting out of the mess they are in so they work their socks off trying to get a promotion and pay rise. It's sad because we all know that the extra money, if and when it does come, does not go on debt repayment.

[SwedishChef]

Am I the only one on this board who thinks that a typical gung-ho mustachian saver would make a great Republican candidate, because they could stress debt free living, building wealth through investing in private companies etc, etc, in other words a living, walking breathing example of how the US economy can work for people if you make some good decisions.  Rubio seems like an example of typical cronyism and living beyond one's means.

Except I'd bet that the typical gung-ho mustachian saver is just as likely to be liberal as conservative.

Or they're likely to be neither. Individuals often fall into the trap of believing that, if they're an active political observer, they must neatly and dichotomously label themselves "liberal" or "conservative", "Democrat" or "Republican". Sometimes "moderate" gets thrown in there. I used to buy into that, but having spent time around politicians in DC, you become disillusioned and cynical rapidly. Public policy and effective governance are far more complicated, with many shades of gray, than can ever be encapsulated by a branded political platform.

I don't identify with either side nowadays; the things I find to be common sense and practical solutions are often nowhere to be seen on any political platform, and we can't talk about these things because they've somehow been branded offensive or impossible by some special interest group.

And there is not one single candidate I have any respect for or faith in for the next presidential election. The GOP is in such a leadership and personality rut it's almost funny (really? Ted Cruz? really?). And I'm sick of seeing the name Clinton on presidential tickets -- it's just creepy at this point. Get some fresh blood!

[Patrick A]

Am I the only one on this board who thinks that a typical gung-ho mustachian saver would make a great Republican candidate, because they could stress debt free living, building wealth through investing in private companies etc, etc, in other words a living, walking breathing example of how the US economy can work for people if you make some good decisions.  Rubio seems like an example of typical cronyism and living beyond one's means.

Except I'd bet that the typical gung-ho mustachian saver is just as likely to be liberal as conservative.

Or they're likely to be neither. Individuals often fall into the trap of believing that, if they're an active political observer, they must neatly and dichotomously label themselves "liberal" or "conservative", "Democrat" or "Republican". Sometimes "moderate" gets thrown in there. I used to buy into that, but having spent time around politicians in DC, you become disillusioned and cynical rapidly. Public policy and effective governance are far more complicated, with many shades of gray, than can ever be encapsulated by a branded political platform.

I don't identify with either side nowadays; the things I find to be common sense and practical solutions are often nowhere to be seen on any political platform, and we can't talk about these things because they've somehow been branded offensive or impossible by some special interest group.

And there is not one single candidate I have any respect for or faith in for the next presidential election. The GOP is in such a leadership and personality rut it's almost funny (really? Ted Cruz? really?). And I'm sick of seeing the name Clinton on presidential tickets -- it's just creepy at this point. Get some fresh blood!

+1

[One Noisy Cat]

Between him and his wife, 17 speeding tickets... giving a lot of coin back to local gub'mint.

I wonder if he counts that as a donation on his 1040.

And in 2007 Barack Obama paid off 15 parking tickets (17 years late) right before launching his campaign.

http://nypost.com/2015/06/08/the-times-gift-wrapped-smear-of-marco-rubio/

Apparently Rubio himself is responsible for 4 of these tickets. I don't really rember how many tickets I have..maybe 5 in 40 years, the last about 15 years ago.

But this is a story from the paper that gave us Jayson Blair and Walter Duranty making up stories

[TheGrimSqueaker]

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/politics/2015/06/marco_rubio_s_personal_finances_aren_t_the_problem_what_is_troubling_is.html


Here's an article that cuts to the gist of the hypocrisy. As with many politicians whose goal is to slash the social safety net, Rubio seems utterly clueless about the extent to which he, himself, relied on a safety net in the form of a wealthy benefactor.

What a lot of people from affluent families don't realize is that, if they come upon hard times (regardless of the reason), they're part of a network and community that can frequently pull them up and avert a major tragedy. There might be access to inheritances, loans from a wealthier parent, or even business connections and job opportunities.

That's a big-ass personal fucking safety net.

OF COURSE a person with such a safety net doesn't need the public one, any more than they needed a public school system. That doesn't mean that there isn't a flaming metric ass ton of people who DO need and use it.

[MgoSam]

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/politics/2015/06/marco_rubio_s_personal_finances_aren_t_the_problem_what_is_troubling_is.html


Here's an article that cuts to the gist of the hypocrisy. As with many politicians whose goal is to slash the social safety net, Rubio seems utterly clueless about the extent to which he, himself, relied on a safety net in the form of a wealthy benefactor.

What a lot of people from affluent families don't realize is that, if they come upon hard times (regardless of the reason), they're part of a network and community that can frequently pull them up and avert a major tragedy. There might be access to inheritances, loans from a wealthier parent, or even business connections and job opportunities.

That's a big-ass personal fucking safety net.

OF COURSE a person with such a safety net doesn't need the public one, any more than they needed a public school system. That doesn't mean that there isn't a flaming metric ass ton of people who DO need and use it.

+1

I work hard, and am good with my money, but I can't fail to recognize that this is largely due to my upbringing. My parents were people that weren't highly educated, but were extremely hard working and good savers. Their house is one that they bought in 1993 in cash, and they have raised me to be frugal...I wasn't born this way.

They paid for my education, because they always regretted not going to college, had it not been for them I would have student loans. This helps me in saving most of my income and as a result I'll hit FIRE sooner. I would argue that the vast majority of those that want to eliminate safety nets are people that have had their own, whether government based or family/society based, and I hate it when such people want to eliminate it.

[KCM5]

Am I the only one on this board who thinks that a typical gung-ho mustachian saver would make a great Republican candidate, because they could stress debt free living, building wealth through investing in private companies etc, etc, in other words a living, walking breathing example of how the US economy can work for people if you make some good decisions.  Rubio seems like an example of typical cronyism and living beyond one's means.

Except I'd bet that the typical gung-ho mustachian saver is just as likely to be liberal as conservative.

Or they're likely to be neither. Individuals often fall into the trap of believing that, if they're an active political observer, they must neatly and dichotomously label themselves "liberal" or "conservative", "Democrat" or "Republican". Sometimes "moderate" gets thrown in there. I used to buy into that, but having spent time around politicians in DC, you become disillusioned and cynical rapidly. Public policy and effective governance are far more complicated, with many shades of gray, than can ever be encapsulated by a branded political platform.

I don't identify with either side nowadays; the things I find to be common sense and practical solutions are often nowhere to be seen on any political platform, and we can't talk about these things because they've somehow been branded offensive or impossible by some special interest group.

And there is not one single candidate I have any respect for or faith in for the next presidential election. The GOP is in such a leadership and personality rut it's almost funny (really? Ted Cruz? really?). And I'm sick of seeing the name Clinton on presidential tickets -- it's just creepy at this point. Get some fresh blood!

Oh, I agree with just about every word above. The American political system is broken and neither of our main political parties represent what they espouse to. But I still consider myself liberal. Social safety nets, progressive environmental policy, reduction in military effort - regardless of how our current "liberal" party represents this, I still think of these as liberal values.

[vern]

Please, no more Bushes or Clintons!

[milesdividendmd]

Please, no more Bushes or Clintons!

False equivalency.

You're half right.

[LiveLean]

Marco who?  He has zero percent chance of winning,  but could be VP material.

Zero chance of winning? A young, charismatic, bilingual guy who can deliver Florida, a guy who admittedly has been a Senator for an hour and a half. Really the 2016 Republican version of Obama. Nobody thought he had much chance back in 2006 either.

I'm sitting a block from Bob McDonnell's two beach houses, the ones he bought at the peak of the market that put him in financial straits that inspired him to take $170,000 in donations from a supplement manufacturer, money that doesn't seem to have influenced any of his decisions as Virginia governor -- unlike a certain former Secretary of State who accepted hundreds of millions to her foundation that clearly influenced her decisions as a cabinet member.

If only Bob McDonnell had created a foundation, he'd be the Republican frontrunner instead of appealing a prison term. But the Secretary will be our next president. Go figure.

[Kris]

Marco who?  He has zero percent chance of winning,  but could be VP material.

Zero chance of winning? A young, charismatic, bilingual guy who can deliver Florida, a guy who admittedly has been a Senator for an hour and a half. Really the 2016 Republican version of Obama. Nobody thought he had much chance back in 2006 either.

I'm not so sure.  And yeah, I'm not a Republican, but I'm not really talking about this in a partisan way.  I don't see Rubio as being able to do much beyond maybe Florida.  I think he's in an unwinnable situation regarding immigration.  His ability to deliver Florida is exactly what will make him unable to win other conservative states. 

[jprince7827]

I was considering voting for the guy, after investigating more in depth his positions on a great many things. He sure talks the talk I agree with re: fiscal policy, but knowing that his financial house isn't in order immediately disqualifies him. You can't preach fiscal sanity when you do not practice it.

[MgoSam]

I wonder if he has ever used the tired old line, "Why the federal budget can't be managed like a household budget," to which someone could ask, "Do you mean like yours?"

[LouLou]

I was considering voting for the guy, after investigating more in depth his positions on a great many things. He sure talks the talk I agree with re: fiscal policy, but knowing that his financial house isn't in order immediately disqualifies him. You can't preach fiscal sanity when you do not practice it.

Remember Bob McDonnell? Talked about reducing budget and fiscal conservatism while spending like crazy.  Now convicted on corruption charges.

Politicians just say what will get them elected.  I expect no correlation between their "platforms" and their personal choices or actions in office.  That is true for both parties.  The Republican Party is not actually conservative and the Democratic Party is not actually liberal.

[commodore perry]

Soon after he was elected to the Legislature in 2000, he reported a net worth of zero, about $150,000 in student loan debt, and $30,000 in what he called assorted credit and retail debt.

He sucks at math - I count that as negative 180,000 net worth, not zero net worth.

And holy shit - 10 years with that kind of income and only $53k in net worth! We save a lot more than that a year.

[nazar]

http://www.miamiherald.com/opinion/opn-columns-blogs/carl-hiaasen/article23876584.html

More reporting on the same general topic, with some local perspective.

[VexedCoffee]

I'm voting Hillary only because Elizabeth Warren isn't running

Why not vote for Bernie Sanders then? He's a lot closer to Warren then Hillary is

[Wilson Hall]

I wonder if he has ever used the tired old line, "Why the federal budget can't be managed like a household budget," to which someone could ask, "Do you mean like yours?"

ROFL

[Kris]

I wonder if he has ever used the tired old line, "Why the federal budget can't be managed like a household budget," to which someone could ask, "Do you mean like yours?"

ROFL

Ha -- yeah, one would assume his advisers have convinced him to permanently retire that old saw.

[forummm]

Marco who?  He has zero percent chance of winning,  but could be VP material.

Zero chance of winning? A young, charismatic, bilingual guy who can deliver Florida, a guy who admittedly has been a Senator for an hour and a half. Really the 2016 Republican version of Obama. Nobody thought he had much chance back in 2006 either.

I'm not so sure.  And yeah, I'm not a Republican, but I'm not really talking about this in a partisan way.  I don't see Rubio as being able to do much beyond maybe Florida.  I think he's in an unwinnable situation regarding immigration.  His ability to deliver Florida is exactly what will make him unable to win other conservative states. 

His chances are nonzero, but pretty close to it. The Obama comparison is pretty thin. He's just not anywhere near as intelligent, dynamic, or as captivating as Obama was during his first campaign. And there are too many other candidates who are much better for a Republican primary race.

Since he's running for president and not for reelection to his Senate seat, he will be (in increasing order of likelihood) VP, in the cabinet, or a lobbyist in 2017.