Author Topic: Life's too short to clean your own home.  (Read 21790 times)

DarienLambert

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Life's too short to clean your own home.
« on: February 17, 2015, 04:30:39 PM »
I received this gem in the mail today. The back is an ad for a maid service, of course.


Shamantha

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Re: Life's too short to clean your own home.
« Reply #1 on: February 18, 2015, 01:46:15 AM »
Very unmustachian of me, but I agree with the slogan. No way that I am going to use 4 hours of my weekend cleaning. Or shopping, for that matter, groceries get delivered. I absolutely hate cleaning and shopping.

kathrynd

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Re: Life's too short to clean your own home.
« Reply #2 on: February 18, 2015, 02:35:50 AM »
I've never spent 4 hours cleaning my  house a week.

Quick, sweep, wipe..good to go



ShoulderThingThatGoesUp

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Re: Life's too short to clean your own home.
« Reply #3 on: February 18, 2015, 04:54:17 AM »
Roomba. Put it in a room, press the "go" button, let it do its thing. Cuts down hugely on cleaning time and our house is much cleaner for it. Costs $300 or so at Costco, so not a cheap purchase, but we needed a new vacuum anyways.

justajane

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Re: Life's too short to clean your own home.
« Reply #4 on: February 18, 2015, 05:44:16 AM »
There have been many discussions about house cleaning on this forum, and you will find lots of people that agree with that slogan. The main reason I've seen is that their per hour rate is higher, so they are "losing" money on cleaning their home or doing their own yard work. But by that logic, they should probably always eat out. 

caliq

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Re: Life's too short to clean your own home.
« Reply #5 on: February 18, 2015, 05:47:24 AM »
Roomba. Put it in a room, press the "go" button, let it do its thing. Cuts down hugely on cleaning time and our house is much cleaner for it. Costs $300 or so at Costco, so not a cheap purchase, but we needed a new vacuum anyways.

+1

I like to joke that it saved my marriage ;D

With 3 big dogs and a cat, the pet hair was accumulating at an incredibly rapid pace and our different tolerance levels for dirt were really becoming apparent...

ellpol

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Re: Life's too short to clean your own home.
« Reply #6 on: February 18, 2015, 06:14:40 AM »
I've seriously been considering this.

My overtime rate is 2-3x the cost of hiring a cleaner, meaning I would get a week's worth of cleaning/ironing/whatever I hate doing done in 1-1.5 hours!

The only issue I have is letting somebody in to my home when I'm not there. I'm never home long enough to have a regular schedule for cleaning, so they would probably need access.

...I hate cleaning!

Brad_H

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Re: Life's too short to clean your own home.
« Reply #7 on: February 18, 2015, 08:08:40 AM »
This appears to be a contest, if "no purchase is necessary" then winning a year of free housecleaning is very Mustachian.

On the other hand this is one of my favorite topics so allow me to sum up so far:
  • If your hair's on fire then clean your own home as there are health risks to squalor,
  • If your accounts are in order and you like to clean then do so,
  • If you don't, then a house cleaning service is an efficient way to do it; plus this employs someone in your neighborhood and that's good economic stewardship,
  • If around ~$75 a month (what I pay) seems like a lot; work on your financial offense until it is trivial.

justajane

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Re: Life's too short to clean your own home.
« Reply #8 on: February 18, 2015, 08:33:58 AM »
@Brad_H - Does anybody really like cleaning, though? I like the results of my cleaning, but not the process. I would be very surprised if someone came on here and said, "Actually, I get much visceral enjoyment out of the act of scrubbing my toilets and getting on my hands and knees to wipe behind them." I could be wrong, but this argument is often brought up as the main reason to still clean your own home when you have a financial surplus. But from my perspective, the underlying purpose is to provide a reason for those who want to do the opposite.

To the OP: You have certainly opened an old can of worms with this post. :)


Shamantha

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Re: Life's too short to clean your own home.
« Reply #9 on: February 18, 2015, 08:55:30 AM »
Relatively new to the forum so have not read all previous discussions on this, so apologies for further opening the can of worms :-)

I had a schoolfriend once who loved cleaning, holidays where she and her mum turned the whole house upside down for a thorough cleaning were the joy of her life. I do think she is an exception to the rule :-).

However, there is a difference between things I do not like to do and things I hate to do. I do not like to do the laundry, clean the kitchen after cooking, muck out the cat litter box, do the administration. But they are just annoyances, part of life and I am OK with doing them, though definitely not enjoying them. Shopping and cleaning are different, I hate them with a vengeance, shopping even more so than cleaning. Anything allowing me to wriggle out of them, including throwing money at it, is fair game to me.

And as Brad states, it provides a partial income to my cleaner, who is a great person and I am happy to be able to offer her employment. 

frugledoc

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Re: Life's too short to clean your own home.
« Reply #10 on: February 18, 2015, 11:48:54 AM »
Paying a cleaner is the ultimate antimustachian outsourcing.

It either means your house is too big, you have too much stuff, or you just don't mind throwing money away.


RexualChocolate

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Re: Life's too short to clean your own home.
« Reply #11 on: February 18, 2015, 12:00:50 PM »
Paying a cleaner is the ultimate antimustachian outsourcing.

It either means your house is too big, you have too much stuff, or you just don't mind throwing money away.

Isn't the entire point of mustachianism to spend your only fixed resource (time) exactly how you want?

For these type of outsourced services its a value proposition- is the say 2 - 20 hours you get back a month worth the cost? It depends on your personal utility.

For me, it is. I don't go to the grocery store, clean, or do my own laundry. I spend <10 minutes a month doing chores, compared with people who soak entire Saturdays which blows my mind.

For counterpoint, I don't own a car and I cant believe people spend ant time every day inside of one. Any required auto commute for me for work, exercise, or pleasure, is unacceptable. I walk everywhere. Another value equation may mean you prefer a car and a standalone housing unit, which is incredibly inefficient in my eyes.

The difference is I believe there's room for both types of people in this philosophical umbrella. You should too. Anyone who optimizes their personal utility belongs here as long as they fully understand the costs involved.


frugledoc

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Re: Life's too short to clean your own home.
« Reply #12 on: February 18, 2015, 12:07:37 PM »
I'm not saying I disagree with it. Just that is is very antimustachian.

skunkfunk

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Re: Life's too short to clean your own home.
« Reply #13 on: February 18, 2015, 12:09:02 PM »
Does a cleaning service do the worst bits? I would think not. Having dirtied every dish in the house last night making orange chicken, I'm pretty sure that a cleaning service would not save me the 2 hours of dish washing today.

For you with the "overtime rate" thing - do you choose overtime? I thought people worked overtime when it was needed, whether they wanted to or not. As such, you aren't actually spending time you should be working, right?

MgoSam

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Re: Life's too short to clean your own home.
« Reply #14 on: February 18, 2015, 12:39:34 PM »
I don't understand this, cleaning a house doesn't take that long. That said, I live in a 900 square foot condo and don't have any children or pets, so there's that. I think that the time spent finding someone to clean your house and getting them to do it would be more work than simply picking up a vacuum cleaner and doing it.

skunkfunk

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Re: Life's too short to clean your own home.
« Reply #15 on: February 18, 2015, 12:52:12 PM »
I don't understand this, cleaning a house doesn't take that long. That said, I live in a 900 square foot condo and don't have any children or pets, so there's that. I think that the time spent finding someone to clean your house and getting them to do it would be more work than simply picking up a vacuum cleaner and doing it.

I think you could say that for much of labor. Lawn work, painting, HVAC repair, anything else you have to babysit for.

Capsu78

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Re: Life's too short to clean your own home.
« Reply #16 on: February 18, 2015, 01:06:08 PM »
My cleaner spends a full 6 hours here every other week, so she is very detailed.  We usually tidy up ahead of her.  Then the house is clean and we just work to keep it clean.  I actually don't mind doing laundry or dishes and can't stand cooking in a messy kitchen.  Is it a splurge? Yes- but we lived a long time in this house cluttered with raising a family messes.  It is nice to be tidy empty nesters.

lisahi

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Re: Life's too short to clean your own home.
« Reply #17 on: February 18, 2015, 01:08:20 PM »
I don't understand this, cleaning a house doesn't take that long. That said, I live in a 900 square foot condo and don't have any children or pets, so there's that. I think that the time spent finding someone to clean your house and getting them to do it would be more work than simply picking up a vacuum cleaner and doing it.

It doesn't (even with kids and/or pets) IF you are proactive about it. Take me, for example. Lately, I have not been proactive about cleaning because I've been out of town on the weekends. So I've left my house kind of dirty for a few weeks and with every passing week I don't clean, it will take me longer to get the house clean when I finally do (because there's more that is dirty or it's simply dirtier). I've got two dogs, a doggie door, and one dog that loves to drag dirt-laden vines of grass into the house. If I'm not on top of that, it takes me longer to vacuum and clean the floor.

I used to be more proactive where I would do a little bit of cleaning every weekend so nothing ever got that dirty. Nothing ever really takes that long to do if you're proactive, but I tend to find that most people I meet are the "clean it all in one long day" type of house cleaners, making it a daunting task when you finally take it on.

zephyr911

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Re: Life's too short to clean your own home.
« Reply #18 on: February 18, 2015, 01:28:48 PM »
There have been many discussions about house cleaning on this forum, and you will find lots of people that agree with that slogan. The main reason I've seen is that their per hour rate is higher, so they are "losing" money on cleaning their home or doing their own yard work. But by that logic, they should probably always eat out.
Depends how far away the restaurants are, and if they would have to drive. If I can make dinner in less than the time it takes to drive there and back (plus the time to order and pay), eating out is a loser - even if gas is free, food is free, and I claim an infinite hourly wage - because it doesn't save time. ;)
/tangent

justajane

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Re: Life's too short to clean your own home.
« Reply #19 on: February 18, 2015, 02:21:21 PM »
There have been many discussions about house cleaning on this forum, and you will find lots of people that agree with that slogan. The main reason I've seen is that their per hour rate is higher, so they are "losing" money on cleaning their home or doing their own yard work. But by that logic, they should probably always eat out.
Depends how far away the restaurants are, and if they would have to drive. If I can make dinner in less than the time it takes to drive there and back (plus the time to order and pay), eating out is a loser - even if gas is free, food is free, and I claim an infinite hourly wage - because it doesn't save time. ;)
/tangent

What about ordering take out and having it delivered? If you monetize every second and you earn a decent clip, in theory delivered Jimmy Johns would be "cheaper" than  making a sandwich.

But in general monetizing my day depresses me. 

Brad_H

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Re: Life's too short to clean your own home.
« Reply #20 on: February 19, 2015, 07:45:15 AM »
I'm not saying I disagree with it. Just that is is very antimustachian.

It's very (beginning) antimustachian.

Like any new convert, many have to be fanatical because they don't know what to do, or not do, so they don't do it ALL, but the endgame to being a Mustachian is having developed a personal sense of cost vs reward.


RexualChocolate

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Re: Life's too short to clean your own home.
« Reply #21 on: February 19, 2015, 08:04:25 AM »

Like any new convert, many have to be fanatical because they don't know what to do, or not do, so they don't do it ALL, but the endgame to being a Mustachian is having developed a personal sense of cost vs reward.


Agreed. For example, MMM's wife has a crossfit membership. If you wanted to absolutely save as much money as possible you'd get home from work and move as little as possible so you'd burn as few calories as possible while staring at the ceiling. Since we can all agree that's too extreme, it all becomes relative cost equations. That's the whole point- not everyone wants to burn any years of their youth sprinting to FIRE, some of us like to jog(even though I'm fairly sure my car/transpo savings outweigh my chore outsourcing and my savings rate is in the top 20% here). There's ample room for both and both have merit- just depends on your personal utility function.

I really like the wall of shame to challenge my value equation. Most of the people are obviously ridiculously wasteful, but some subjects like this test my assertions.

Candace

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Re: Life's too short to clean your own home.
« Reply #22 on: February 19, 2015, 10:25:22 AM »
I've been on both sides of the "Life is too short to clean your own house" argument. I have a 2100 square foot house, some of which is not in use (doors shut and vents shut). I was paying Merry Maids $141 every four weeks to clean my house. I paid people to clean for most of my adult life. I figured there are enough chores to do regularly, I work full time and make a good wage, and have limited free time, so why should I clean when I want to be spending my weekends the way I want to? And Merry Maids is not cheap. They do a good job, provide good service, would charge my credit card, and they were *reliable*, unlike cheaper services I had tried.

But...then I found this site and got ashamed. I also now have a boyfriend who doesn't mind pitching in, and is a good enough sport to do the floors, which is the thing I absolutely hate.

My approach was first to realize I was spending $1833 a year on maid service, when all I can think about is how to become financially independent. I realized I was working against my real desires. So, cleaning services seemed like low-hanging fruit when it came to increasing my savings rate. Out it went, along with the exterminator (except the termite contract) and the tax preparer/accountant.

I figure, cleaning is not rocket science. I can do it, unlike perhaps a plumbing or electrical job I would be more likely to pay for. So, how do I do it so it doesn't impact my lifestyle? I resolved to spend the 15-20 minutes I had fiddled on the computer every weekday morning before leaving for work, on cleaning something instead. Less low-information diet, more money in my pocket. It's working so far. The house is clean, and I also get other things done on those days when nothing is in need of cleaning. I am finding that as long as I clean things as soon as they start to look a little dirty, it is easy to keep on top of it.

And that $1833? It's part of the increases I made to my automatic monthly investments. So I won't be tempted to spend it on something.

I'm pretty new to the forum, and one thing I want to comment on is the number of things I see about someone being "Mustachian" or "non-Mustachian" as if this is a cult or something. Personally, I see this site as an inspiration that is helping me increase my savings rate (I went from 29% to 33% in a month), but we don't all have to make the same choices in order to share a common goal, or to have at least a similar mindset. I probably won't get to a 50% savings rate because I don't want to give up certain things, like my car and my pets. But I hope no one is going to hurl "Anti-Mustachian" at me like an epithet. I won't do that to others, either.

ysette9

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Re: Life's too short to clean your own home.
« Reply #23 on: February 19, 2015, 10:36:48 AM »
It is anti-mustachian of me but I have someone clean our house every two weeks and wouldn't go back unless circumstances dramatically changed. I used to spend one full day of my weekend cleaning, grocery shopping, and folding laundry while my husband was off playing an ultimate frisbee pick-up game. I realized though that I was spending my previous FREE TIME doing something I hated and the resentment was building up because my husband was out playing. In the many years we have been together the house cleaning topic has been an intractable source of contention between us. We have different tolerances of mess and different definitions of "clean". He doesn't want to do as much work as it takes to get to my level; I am unwilling to live in a messy house and get frustrated when I am doing more than half of the work. The compromise that has saved us hours of fighting is just outsourcing.

Now that we have a baby and there are suddenly fewer hours in the day, I want every precious moment I can spend with my little girl and am even less interested in scrubbing the bathroom. Insult away but thankfully we are blessed to have enough money to make these kinds of choices and still make progress towards our FIRE goal. :)

justajane

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Re: Life's too short to clean your own home.
« Reply #24 on: February 19, 2015, 11:04:18 AM »
Hey, house cleaning is probably cheaper than marriage counseling and certainly cheaper than divorce ;).

4alpacas

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Re: Life's too short to clean your own home.
« Reply #25 on: February 19, 2015, 11:16:07 AM »
Hey, house cleaning is probably cheaper than marriage counseling and certainly cheaper than divorce ;).
After reading the divorce thread, I completely agree!  http://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/welcome-to-the-forum/divorce-wmfd-(weapon-of-mass-financial-destruction)/

LucyBIT

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Re: Life's too short to clean your own home.
« Reply #26 on: February 19, 2015, 11:38:59 AM »
I do like and enjoy some cleaning. My in-laws gave us a really nice vacuum cleaner for Christmas, and I do honestly enjoy using it--it picks up everything, is easy to empty, transitions seamlessly between carpets and hard floors, it's just fun.

I also like scrubbing my pots and general kitchen cleaning. Sure, it takes me a little bit of effort to start, but once I get going I like it.

I do not like cleaning bathrooms, on the other hand, but fortunately my husband doesn't mind doing those, and since he hates cleaning kitchens it all works out.



I'm pretty new to the forum, and one thing I want to comment on is the number of things I see about someone being "Mustachian" or "non-Mustachian" as if this is a cult or something.

I just see it as shorthand. "Mustachian" is much faster than typing out "reflective of making spending choices that align properly with one's individual values paradigm" every single time. And the fact that the paradigm is personal and individual is part of the definition, I don't see the need to spell it out every time. *shrug*

justajane

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Re: Life's too short to clean your own home.
« Reply #27 on: February 19, 2015, 11:42:09 AM »
I just see it as shorthand. "Mustachian" is much faster than typing out "reflective of making spending choices that align properly with one's individual values paradigm" every single time. And the fact that the paradigm is personal and individual is part of the definition, I don't see the need to spell it out every time. *shrug*

But by that general definition, practically anything could be Mustachian.

Kaspian

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Re: Life's too short to clean your own home.
« Reply #28 on: February 19, 2015, 12:20:02 PM »
Paying a cleaner is the ultimate antimustachian outsourcing.

It either means your house is too big, you have too much stuff, or you just don't mind throwing money away.

Isn't the entire point of mustachianism to spend your only fixed resource (time) exactly how you want?


Actually, no.  There is absolutely nothing badass in hiring a cleaner.  Unless you yourself are that cleaner and have agreed to be paid to help clean out a neighbour's garage or something.

Candace

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Re: Life's too short to clean your own home.
« Reply #29 on: February 19, 2015, 12:37:24 PM »

I'm pretty new to the forum, and one thing I want to comment on is the number of things I see about someone being "Mustachian" or "non-Mustachian" as if this is a cult or something.

I just see it as shorthand. "Mustachian" is much faster than typing out "reflective of making spending choices that align properly with one's individual values paradigm" every single time. And the fact that the paradigm is personal and individual is part of the definition, I don't see the need to spell it out every time. *shrug*

Sorry for not saying what I really meant. I use the term "Mustachian" myself and see it as shorthand too, for something like "making the best choices to service my priority of getting to FI". It's more the hurling of "But that's anti-Mustachian!" or similar in a post-- as if that's something to be feared-- that sounds like a knee-jerk reaction to something that doesn't, er, conform exactly to the actions of our esteemed host.

Candace

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Re: Life's too short to clean your own home.
« Reply #30 on: February 19, 2015, 12:45:46 PM »
It is anti-mustachian of me but I have someone clean our house every two weeks and wouldn't go back unless circumstances dramatically changed. I used to spend one full day of my weekend cleaning, grocery shopping, and folding laundry while my husband was off playing an ultimate frisbee pick-up game. I realized though that I was spending my previous FREE TIME doing something I hated and the resentment was building up because my husband was out playing. In the many years we have been together the house cleaning topic has been an intractable source of contention between us. We have different tolerances of mess and different definitions of "clean". He doesn't want to do as much work as it takes to get to my level; I am unwilling to live in a messy house and get frustrated when I am doing more than half of the work. The compromise that has saved us hours of fighting is just outsourcing.

Now that we have a baby and there are suddenly fewer hours in the day, I want every precious moment I can spend with my little girl and am even less interested in scrubbing the bathroom. Insult away but thankfully we are blessed to have enough money to make these kinds of choices and still make progress towards our FIRE goal. :)

Yep, this is similar to why I used to be on the other side of this question. Funny, my ex used to play Ultimate on the weekends too. Neither of us wanted to clean, we were both slobs, and we both made good money. Having someone come clean avoided all the inevitable arguments about who was going to do what -- and my ex was very good at not noticing dirt. It also made us pick up our shit every two weeks. So if someone dropped in, we weren't completely ashamed of our place. The cleaning service, as someone noted, was cheaper than therapy and better than fighting with each other. Like ysette9, I would have been seething with resentment.

Now, I can't say I want to clean particularly, but I want the $1800 a year more than I don't want to. I used to feel good about saving 20% of my salary. Now, I'm at 33% and want to go higher. I also have a boyfriend who pitches in. I hate cleaning less than I used to, and I have also evolved into a decently neat person in general. So, all of those things combine to make me ready to cut the cord. If I was still with my ex I bet we'd still have Merry Maids.

RexualChocolate

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Re: Life's too short to clean your own home.
« Reply #31 on: February 19, 2015, 01:52:35 PM »
Actually, no.  There is absolutely nothing badass in hiring a cleaner.  Unless you yourself are that cleaner and have agreed to be paid to help clean out a neighbour's garage or something.

You're entitled to your opinion, but you just stated a view instead of refuting the points I made.

MoneyCat

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Re: Life's too short to clean your own home.
« Reply #32 on: February 19, 2015, 02:47:43 PM »
Try reading "Nickel and Dimed" and you'll see that cleaning services are a massive ripoff.  They don't do what is necessary to really truly sanitize houses.  They just make things look good on the surface.

damize

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Re: Life's too short to clean your own home.
« Reply #33 on: February 19, 2015, 03:37:39 PM »
My hair is on fire. I want a cleaning service..but cannot even think about it until I'm debt free and probably not until FIRE.  Maybe a Roomba to celebrate debt freedom :D

kathrynd

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Re: Life's too short to clean your own home.
« Reply #34 on: February 19, 2015, 05:57:08 PM »
Try reading "Nickel and Dimed" and you'll see that cleaning services are a massive ripoff.  They don't do what is necessary to really truly sanitize houses.  They just make things look good on the surface.


Isn't that what everyone expects?
Homeowners don't sanitize either...not that I want to live in a germ free house.

NoraLenderbee

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Re: Life's too short to clean your own home.
« Reply #35 on: February 19, 2015, 06:08:40 PM »
Try reading "Nickel and Dimed" and you'll see that cleaning services are a massive ripoff.  They don't do what is necessary to really truly sanitize houses.  They just make things look good on the surface.


Isn't that what everyone expects?
Homeowners don't sanitize either...not that I want to live in a germ free house.

They don't even clean moderately well, at the direction of the company. For example, their cleaning method is to wipe everything with either a damp cloth or a dry cloth. They use the same 2 cloths on everything, instead of getting a clean cloth after wiping something dirty.

They clean the floor with a half-bucket of water, and they don't change the water. So the last part of the floor is getting scrubbed with dirty water.

This is all described in Nickel and Dimed. Barbara Ehrenreich worked for one of these services herself. The goal is not to clean the house, but to create the appearance that it has been cleaned. This is the company policy, not just laziness on the workers' part.

I'm no great housekeeper, but I darn well don't wipe the dining-room table with the same cloth I used to wipe the bathroom walls. And after I clean the floor, a paper towel used to mop up spilled water will not come up brown.

justajane

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Re: Life's too short to clean your own home.
« Reply #36 on: February 19, 2015, 06:11:49 PM »
Try reading "Nickel and Dimed" and you'll see that cleaning services are a massive ripoff.  They don't do what is necessary to really truly sanitize houses.  They just make things look good on the surface.


Isn't that what everyone expects?
Homeowners don't sanitize either...not that I want to live in a germ free house.

You probably wouldn't want cross-contamination, though. Anecdotally Ehrenreich talks about cleaners using the same water and rags throughout the home. It's not their home - why would they care if they wipe a counter with a rag just used to wipe the toilet? This is an extreme example that might rarely happen, but it is true that something can look clean but not be clean at all.

kathrynd

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Re: Life's too short to clean your own home.
« Reply #37 on: February 19, 2015, 06:41:33 PM »
I'm not disagreeing with either of you.

Just don't think you should hold a 'maid' service to higher  standards.
They are not going to clean to hospital standards.

On an undercover tv show, it showed the same sort of cleaning, in motel/hotel rooms.

Kaspian

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Re: Life's too short to clean your own home.
« Reply #38 on: February 20, 2015, 10:46:46 AM »
Actually, no.  There is absolutely nothing badass in hiring a cleaner.  Unless you yourself are that cleaner and have agreed to be paid to help clean out a neighbour's garage or something.

You're entitled to your opinion, but you just stated a view instead of refuting the points I made.

http://www.davidpakman.com/mister-money-mustache/

You can skip ahead to the part where he says the hard way is the better way.  Your definition of "making the best choices to service my priority of getting to FI" is wrong too.  Most of the ideas here are about DIY, not wasting planetary resources, and being healthy by doing the physical work yourself.  Badassity is most important.  FI is probably the second priority.  If you doubt that, you listen to this podcast:

http://podcast.farnoosh.tv/2015/02/mrmoneymustache/



vivophoenix

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Re: Life's too short to clean your own home.
« Reply #39 on: February 20, 2015, 12:00:59 PM »
Actually, no.  There is absolutely nothing badass in hiring a cleaner.  Unless you yourself are that cleaner and have agreed to be paid to help clean out a neighbour's garage or something.

You're entitled to your opinion, but you just stated a view instead of refuting the points I made.

http://www.davidpakman.com/mister-money-mustache/

You can skip ahead to the part where he says the hard way is the better way.  Your definition of "making the best choices to service my priority of getting to FI" is wrong too.  Most of the ideas here are about DIY, not wasting planetary resources, and being healthy by doing the physical work yourself.  Badassity is most important.  FI is probably the second priority.  If you doubt that, you listen to this podcast:

http://podcast.farnoosh.tv/2015/02/mrmoneymustache/

wow it canonical vs apocryphal in here  real fast.



i think people can choose which they prefer, FI or RE


it always creeps me out when people use direct quotes from the blog owner to tell other adults what they should be doing.

i think if anything this blog is about thought and finding what works best for you, and no longer blindly following a trend.


« Last Edit: February 20, 2015, 12:05:20 PM by vivophoenix »

RexualChocolate

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Re: Life's too short to clean your own home.
« Reply #40 on: February 23, 2015, 11:43:53 AM »


http://www.davidpakman.com/mister-money-mustache/

You can skip ahead to the part where he says the hard way is the better way.  Your definition of "making the best choices to service my priority of getting to FI" is wrong too.  Most of the ideas here are about DIY, not wasting planetary resources, and being healthy by doing the physical work yourself.  Badassity is most important.  FI is probably the second priority.  If you doubt that, you listen to this podcast:

http://podcast.farnoosh.tv/2015/02/mrmoneymustache/

Right, again, my point is that there's room for both. Think critically and evaluate your own opinions; regurgitating someone else's adds no value. You may find your values diverge while still appreciating the overall theme. This is the reason I make a point to read authors I strongly disagree with a few times a year.

Spending 4 hours a week doing chores is not something I value at all, and those 4 hours of free time are much more valuable than the monetary penalty for outsourcing (to me).

mak1277

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Re: Life's too short to clean your own home.
« Reply #41 on: February 23, 2015, 03:35:33 PM »
Actually, no.  There is absolutely nothing badass in hiring a cleaner.  Unless you yourself are that cleaner and have agreed to be paid to help clean out a neighbour's garage or something.

You're entitled to your opinion, but you just stated a view instead of refuting the points I made.

http://www.davidpakman.com/mister-money-mustache/

You can skip ahead to the part where he says the hard way is the better way.  Your definition of "making the best choices to service my priority of getting to FI" is wrong too.  Most of the ideas here are about DIY, not wasting planetary resources, and being healthy by doing the physical work yourself.  Badassity is most important.  FI is probably the second priority.  If you doubt that, you listen to this podcast:

http://podcast.farnoosh.tv/2015/02/mrmoneymustache/

Shit, I'm not a badass....how will I go on living?

kathrynd

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Re: Life's too short to clean your own home.
« Reply #42 on: February 24, 2015, 05:21:03 AM »
When it comes down to it, we all make choices how we spend our money.

If getting out of debt, or reaching ER/FI is important, a person will be more extreme than others who  think it is a good idea, in theory.


How many times do we read here on the MMM forum that people say they wish they could cut costs, but when shown what it actually takes, it becomes 'too hard'.

Families spending enormous amounts of  money on groceries, entertainment, restaurant.
If they were really serious, their grocery budget would be cut 50%+ and 90%+ on the other 2.
Charity is done after you reach your goals.
Vacations are basically non-existant.

For me, I was already ER when I came across MMM.
Our family already did the hard yards...that most people refuse to.

skunkfunk

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Re: Life's too short to clean your own home.
« Reply #43 on: February 26, 2015, 08:57:49 AM »
Spending 4 hours a week doing chores is not something I value at all, and those 4 hours of free time are much more valuable than the monetary penalty for outsourcing (to me).

Try my method. I don't outsource it or have anybody do it, and then I don't do it myself either. Win/win!

TGod

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Re: Life's too short to clean your own home.
« Reply #44 on: February 26, 2015, 11:33:30 AM »
House cleaning and laundry has been a bone of contention in our house as well. We had a cleaner who came in every week for a couple of hours when our kids were smaller because I couldn't take being the cleaner anymore. But then she quit and rather than hire a new one my husband suggested the Roomba...paid for itself in a couple of months.

Sometimes I miss it, I loved coming home from work on Thursday to a clean house, but it was sad how, with 2 young kids, it went from clean to messy to dirty so quickly. But I've learned to get the family involved. If the house is dirty on the weekend I wrangle the troops for a 1/2 hour of cleaning. I tidy, hubby vacuums, kids clean up their rooms and the main bathroom and I go through after and mop. It's not an option, we all do it, before we do anything else, and since we put a 1/2 hour timeframe on it, it doesn't take up a big portion of our day. Then I'm happy...till the kids walk through the house with muddy shoes :0

To be honest, I would love to have someone who came and did the mounds of laundry we create. I try to be on top of it, fold as it dries, but it just ends up in piles on the washer or in baskets. Nobody can find clothes until I do a marathon folding session one night every 2 weeks.  It's like a blob that keeps growing and starts taking over the house...dirty laundry piled in the bathroom, clean clothes hanging off the washer...it keeps getting fed and starts migrating down the hall.

Kaspian

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Re: Life's too short to clean your own home.
« Reply #45 on: February 26, 2015, 06:24:56 PM »
Are you pro-hire-a-housecleaner people still going on?  Listen, I get it--you don't want to clean your house and don't like doing it one bit.  Fine, whatever--it's nobody else's business.  But don't tell fibs to yourself justifying and promoting it as somehow Mustachian and in-line with the ideas commonly shared on this blog.  It's not.  Any more than hiring a chauffeur or getting a personal shave by a barber every morning like the old time gangsters did. 

"Domestic Outsourcing: Practical or Wussypants?"
http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2011/09/13/domestic-outsourcing-practical-or-wussypants/

Answer:  Wussypants.

justajane

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Re: Life's too short to clean your own home.
« Reply #46 on: February 26, 2015, 07:20:32 PM »
Are you pro-hire-a-housecleaner people still going on?  Listen, I get it--you don't want to clean your house and don't like doing it one bit.  Fine, whatever--it's nobody else's business.  But don't tell fibs to yourself justifying and promoting it as somehow Mustachian and in-line with the ideas commonly shared on this blog.  It's not.  Any more than hiring a chauffeur or getting a personal shave by a barber every morning like the old time gangsters did. 

"Domestic Outsourcing: Practical or Wussypants?"
http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2011/09/13/domestic-outsourcing-practical-or-wussypants/

Answer:  Wussypants.

I will be honest that we outsource a considerable amount of home improvement that MMM would scoff at. We did not build the addition on the back of our house. We did not construct the cedar fence in our backyard. We did not climb the dead trees in our backyard and chainsaw them.

The difference I see between these things and cleaning is that cleaning is a relatively easy to do. And the stakes are pretty low. If my mirrors have streaks, who cares? If I don't pour a basement foundation properly, it's a pretty serious issue. If the chainsaw slips, I might lose a limb or die. 

But YMMV. I tend to agree with you that no one really cares if people hire people to clean their dust balls. But don't describe it as Mustachian.

RexualChocolate

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Re: Life's too short to clean your own home.
« Reply #47 on: February 27, 2015, 07:29:21 AM »
Are you pro-hire-a-housecleaner people still going on?  Listen, I get it--you don't want to clean your house and don't like doing it one bit.  Fine, whatever--it's nobody else's business.  But don't tell fibs to yourself justifying and promoting it as somehow Mustachian and in-line with the ideas commonly shared on this blog.  It's not.  Any more than hiring a chauffeur or getting a personal shave by a barber every morning like the old time gangsters did. 

"Domestic Outsourcing: Practical or Wussypants?"
http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2011/09/13/domestic-outsourcing-practical-or-wussypants/

Answer:  Wussypants.

Again, MMM blows 200+ a month, 2400 a year, on a CrossFit membership for his wife. Isn't that the definition of outsourcing? I find this an utterly ridiculous expense personally, but understand how it fits within the tenets of his philosophy and respect the choice.

You miss the greater, massively liberating point of this website if you really think you have to follow his articles to the letter. The theme of maximizing utility matters, not exactly what he does versus what you do. That's the most mustachian thing of all- maximizing what you get out of life. If saving 80 a month does that for you, great. For me I'd rather have the 4 hours a month. Calling one mustachian and one not is antithetical to the website.

Brad_H

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Re: Life's too short to clean your own home.
« Reply #48 on: February 27, 2015, 08:47:03 AM »
Are you pro-hire-a-housecleaner people still going on? 

Listen yourself, I understand that this is an aspect of your life that you have acquired some experience in and now you think you should be able to tell other people how to live their lives, but you haven't the right. You come off as a 15 year old who has just attended a Say No to Drugs meeting telling a 65 year old that they shouldn't manage their pain. What do you know against those who have evaluated every aspect of their lives and found their own unique balance?

Your arguments have already been considered and labeled as beginning-Mustachian-approaching-religious-zealotry and if thats what it takes for you to get it done then by all means.

Since your so fond of canonizing MMM the title of this site is Early Retirement through Badassity; FI came first.

frugledoc

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Re: Life's too short to clean your own home.
« Reply #49 on: February 27, 2015, 08:49:47 AM »
lol this thread is still going.  Very funny that those that hire house cleaners have missed the point that this forum is the "anti mustachian wall of shame and comedy", which does fit the act of hiring a cleaner.

Also, paying $2400 a  year for crossfit is suitable for this board, so even the top dog himself does some antimustachian things, as I'm sure everybody does.

Hardly worth getting your panties in a twist about people!

If you want to find a forum where people pat each other on the backs for outsourcing house keeping then look elsewhere. Otherwise stop being such a bunch of complainypants.

 
« Last Edit: February 27, 2015, 08:57:37 AM by frugledoc »