Author Topic: Letter drop asking residents to devise a plan to replace "shabby" cars :)  (Read 32869 times)

BlueHouse

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Re: Letter drop asking residents to devise a plan to replace "shabby" cars :)
« Reply #100 on: September 05, 2016, 08:05:54 PM »
We are interested in whether it's worth while to buy in to an HOA.  From property value perspective I don't see any evidence that it is.  From an "aesthetics" perspective each person needs to make a personal decision, but don't forget this is a forum where saving less and eschewing conventional wisdom are valued - so come with big evidence if you want to be taken seriously!
  I'm not sure how an HOA affects property values except to ensure that you never have to live next door to the person with multiple RVs, Boats, or vehicles parked on the lawn.  Is this what people mean when they say it affects property values?  If so, doesn't it just make sure that you're property value doesn't fall due to neighbors?

MoneyCat

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Re: Letter drop asking residents to devise a plan to replace "shabby" cars :)
« Reply #101 on: September 05, 2016, 08:13:34 PM »
I always chuckle when I hear people complain about HOAs.

I gladly pay my HOA fee every month for the peace of mind that they will bother my neighbor for any of the following:
Parking outside of a driveway or in front of their house (I don't want neighbors parking on lawns or having boats in their driveway)
Yard that looks terrible
House color that I don't approve of (neighbor wanted to paint their house so they have to come to me to sign off on their color choice before submitting it to the HOA)
Yard sculptures that are an eye sore (one neighborhood without an HOA has a huge rusted statute that is not artistically placed in a yard)

There is a neighbor that has had a car parked in the driveway without being moved for months and even that bothers me.  At least drive it so the cobwebs are gone.

You just made my resolve to never buy a house with HOA stronger.

If I lived in a neighborhood with a HOA, I most likely wouldn't be allowed to have a rooftop TV antenna. They would also probably have guidelines for what kind of fencing I can use, whether I could have certain kinds of gardens, whether I could wash my car in my driveway, whether I could have a rain barrel, etc. People who move into subdivisions with a HOA should be aware that when they do that they are handing over control of their property to other people. It's bad enough that you have to deal with stupid property laws from the government, but just imagine also having to follow the commands of a bunch of Anti-Mustachian idiots in your neighborhood as well.

MrRealEstate

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Re: Letter drop asking residents to devise a plan to replace "shabby" cars :)
« Reply #102 on: September 06, 2016, 03:19:33 AM »
I believe this forum wins the award for the highest percentage of "complainypants"

AliEli

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Re: Letter drop asking residents to devise a plan to replace "shabby" cars :)
« Reply #103 on: September 06, 2016, 04:12:13 AM »
Woah

I believe this forum wins the award for the highest percentage of "complainypants"

This thread seems to have gone off the rails after about reply #18... I laughed so hard when I read that article that I had to share it, but I seem to have triggered strong emotions and flashbacks for the americans on here... Does NZ even have HOAs? I thought NZ was just run by hobbits.

(For any offended kiwis - I'm just basing by belief about hobbits running your country from the about of hobbit-related artefacts at Wellington airport 🤗).


gooki

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Re: Letter drop asking residents to devise a plan to replace "shabby" cars :)
« Reply #104 on: September 06, 2016, 05:11:46 AM »
I'm not offended. I've never come across HOA. We do have building covenants. In our subdivision the covenants expire after 15 years.

mm1970

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Re: Letter drop asking residents to devise a plan to replace "shabby" cars :)
« Reply #105 on: September 06, 2016, 09:32:07 AM »
We are interested in whether it's worth while to buy in to an HOA.  From property value perspective I don't see any evidence that it is.  From an "aesthetics" perspective each person needs to make a personal decision, but don't forget this is a forum where saving less and eschewing conventional wisdom are valued - so come with big evidence if you want to be taken seriously!
  I'm not sure how an HOA affects property values except to ensure that you never have to live next door to the person with multiple RVs, Boats, or vehicles parked on the lawn.  Is this what people mean when they say it affects property values?  If so, doesn't it just make sure that you're property value doesn't fall due to neighbors?
It can but it really depends on the area.
- In some cases, it can decrease prop values compared to a similarly priced property, because of:
1. The rules (people don't like them)
2. The cost (HOAs here range from $125/ month to $600 a month - and maybe more).  So, that has a tendency to depress the price of the house in many cases.

- HOAs can increase property values by
1. Maintaining aesthetics
2. Providing amenities.  We have planned developments and just older neighborhoods with HOAs that have private swimming pools.  A big bonus.  Other HOAs have party rooms, tennis courts, basketball courts, gyms.
3. Improving the "quality" of people in the area.  This is more of a planned development thing.  Example - some of the PUDs are *new* and the new houses are bigger than houses built in 1960, so they are more expensive.  Thus, wealthier people end up there.  Then this improves the school district, making the house even more valuable.  I saw this with a friend's house.  The location of the PUD wasn't great.  The local school got a 3 or 4, because it was mostly poor people living in apartments next to the university.  With a few professor's kids who lived in faculty housing.  Then the PUD went in.  Fast forward 10-15 years, and slowly the professional couples who lived there, and had kids, started sending their kids there instead of private school.  And now the school is an 8, and won the district math bowl this year.

(I put "quality" in quotes on purpose - not a fan of judging the "quality" of various people by their income.)

Making Cookies

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Re: Letter drop asking residents to devise a plan to replace "shabby" cars :)
« Reply #106 on: September 06, 2016, 10:37:28 AM »
People who move into subdivisions with a HOA should be aware that when they do that they are handing over control of their property to other people. It's bad enough that you have to deal with stupid property laws from the government, but just imagine also having to follow the commands of a bunch of Anti-Mustachian idiots in your neighborhood as well.

It converts the "owning" experience to "renting" IMHO. If you are okay with that then enjoy. Not me, not mine.

I think HOAs are a great thing for people who like to lounge next to a pool, sit inside, or play golf. Perhaps good for people who like to do tabletop hobbies (small hobbies).

For the rest of us, a regular neighborhood is the better bet and we try to be good neighbors. There is always that chance you'll have a turkey neighbor that you'd rather not have but it happens. In our neighborhood it is the lead-footed neighbors. Fortunately they are driving slower with age and their teenagers are growing up and away.

BFGirl

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Re: Letter drop asking residents to devise a plan to replace "shabby" cars :)
« Reply #107 on: September 06, 2016, 12:58:38 PM »
Personally, I am not a huge fan of HOA's.  Part of me greatly resents giving up part of my rights as a property owner to someone else.  However, I currently choose to live where there is an HOA for several reasons:

1.  I'm in a townhouse and they maintain the lawn and shrubbery.  I can still plant flowers and putter, but don't have to mow on the weekends or repair sprinkler systems.  They are also responsible for the roof and exterior maintenance.  They also maintain the common area landscaping.  The townhouses are a small part of the larger community which is mainly single family.
2.  Our HOA is currently run by a commercial group, although at some point I think it will be turned over to the owners (dreading that day).  The response time to any issues I've had have been great.
3.  There are numerous amenities throughout the community that the HOA administers and maintains. 
5.  The HOA also sponsors many neighborhood events throughout the year which helps promote the sense of living in a community.
6.  This is not a gated community, so we don't have to maintain the streets.

I previously lived in a very small gated HOA.  I ended up getting railroaded into being the president about 15 years ago because no one wanted to do it.  It was a thankless job and I got to deal with people who wanted to either complain that the gate needed repairs or complained that the repairs were too expensive or whatnot.  Since it was gated, the road was private and had to be maintained by the neighborhood.  Special assessments and all that stuff.  All the neighbors generally got along well,so it could have been worse.

So yes, sometimes it can be good and sometimes it can be bad.

MilesTeg

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Re: Letter drop asking residents to devise a plan to replace "shabby" cars :)
« Reply #108 on: September 06, 2016, 12:59:19 PM »

You are a riot. I'm kicking back, retired decades before my piers, and enjoying a nice 100K+ passive income stream, and a seven figure account parked at Vanguard. You, OTOH want to have a sword waving contest about things you know fuck all nothing about, and need to babble about evidence, as if there is some moral imperative requiring me to whip out the spread sheets, and prove anything to you. As the sweet little old ladies say down south, "well, bless your heart".  It's about hard earned knowledge, experience, and being humble enough to learn from others, not being an asshat on this forum. Try it sometime, it can really send you to places you never dreamed of. As others have pointed out, you have worn out your welcome. Surely, there is some other forum that desperately needs you?

Apparently I struck a nerve. You're becoming quite unhinged. I asked for evidence, and all you provide is bluster and various logical fallacies. No one is requiring that you participate.

MilesTeg

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Re: Letter drop asking residents to devise a plan to replace "shabby" cars :)
« Reply #109 on: September 06, 2016, 01:00:52 PM »
As I said already several times: when there are objective reasons for certain restrictions -- such as health and safety -- those are quite reasonable. You should try reading the whole thread.

MilesTeg, this thread is getting quite tedious, and there's no need for me to re-read the entire thing because my comprehension skills are quite good.  We can squabble forever but I don't want to go tit for tat with you.  It's clear you don't like HOAs and that is okay.  There are many things about them that I don't like either.  We both have the choice to live or not to live in one.  But when I have made a choice to live in one, you cannot then tell me that I am unethical because I follow the rules and expect others to do the same. 

I won't look at your home in a non-HOA covered area and tell you how to live so please don't look at mine within an HOA and presume to tell me how I should live.  Thank you very much.   This thread was actually kind of fun until it devolved into personal opinions.

Apparently your comprehension is NOT so good. As I have said repeatedly, I have no problem with HOAs IFF they are entirely voluntary. It's that they are NOT entirely voluntary that causes the problem.

Jrr85

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Re: Letter drop asking residents to devise a plan to replace "shabby" cars :)
« Reply #110 on: September 06, 2016, 01:44:56 PM »

It's wrong because it's not your property. You have no business telling the rightful owner what to do with it. Of course, I am speaking about ethics, not legality. Clearly if they are part of an HOA you've been granted the legal right to have a say in what other do, but legality and ethics don't always coincide.

If you don't like the aesthetics of their property, that's YOUR problem, not theirs. And likewise, if they don't like what you are doing it's THEIR problem, not yours.
So, I actually do have a right because I am in an HOA And Because I live in a city that uses a master design plan that was created in the 18th century and is still in use today.

You quoted it, but didn't seem to comprehend the part where I state I'm talking about ETHICS, not legal rights.

I think where you're ethics arguments are running off the rails is with respect to your attitude that people are just "granted the legal right to have a say in what other do."  That's not what is happening at all.  People aren't just granted legal rights; they essentially exchange legal rights.  What you're argument comes down to is you want a right for a particular property that is not for sale (or at least not economically negotiated for). 



 

TheGrimSqueaker

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Re: Letter drop asking residents to devise a plan to replace "shabby" cars :)
« Reply #111 on: September 06, 2016, 01:48:37 PM »
From a logistics and administrative perspective, there's a world of difference between a condo complex, a gated community with some shared resources, and an established neighborhood full of single family dwellings. Whether a HOA is a good idea depends in part on what kind of community it is and whether there are shared resources that need to be managed or paid for.

In a condo, the general rule is that you "own" everything from the sheetrock in, and there are some shared resources that might include a pool, a driveway, and the roof. These resources require upkeep of some kind, and the upkeep is not free, so there's got to be some means for paying for it and making sure everyone pays their fair share. Generally that service is provided by a HOA and the work is often outsourced to a property management company, but a big enough building may have its own staff. So, to live in a co-op or condo, people trade off some freedom in exchange for a higher standard of living. They get the pool, the park, the snow removal service, and whatever else. But they don't have to cover the entire cost. The HOA has a laundry list of rules generally intended to help everyone get along and enjoy their property equally, and my right to swing my proverbial fist ends where someone else's nose begins. Exactly what that means varies from one complex to the next. The more swanky the complex, the more restrictive the covenants. Also, there are going to be regular dues plus special assessments for large purchases. The more shared goodies there are, the more it's going to cost to live in the building.

Realistically there's not going to be any way to manage a condo complex like that if participation is voluntary, because there will always be people who don't think they should have to contribute to things they don't use. They won't want to fork out an extra $1,000 here and there for a new roof when they live on the ground floor and won't directly benefit, or they'll object to the clubhouse renovations because they don't use the clubhouse. If participation is voluntary, it's going to be less than 100%, and that means a lot of necessary repairs just don't get done. If something happens to the HOA and the work doesn't get done, the property starts to deteriorate for lack of repair, and that affects everybody's property value. But because of the amount of money involved, there tends to be a lot more resident oversight and fewer opportunities for corruption or mismanagement.

At the other extreme, a neighborhood with no shared resources can get by just fine without a HOA. With no signs, medians, grassy areas, or anything else to maintain, there aren't any shared costs. So the only way a HOA can add value is to maintain order and standards in a neighborhood. They generally do this by enforcing restrictive standards that exceed the existing local ordinances for zoning, building, pets, or parking. Whether this contributes to overall property value is currently the subject of debate. Many people on this board have had bad experiences with corruption and selective rule enforcement (A and B both have tall weeds in the front yard, but only A gets a ticket for it). Their complaints are legitimate. But there are also people who care about neighborhood look and feel. They don't want to look at ugly things on someone else's property, they don't want large amounts of traffic on their street, and they care whether non-native plants and trees are being introduced into the ecosystem to compete with the native ecology. People who care about that sort of thing and are willing to spend money to get it tend to keep their own property up pretty well. A HOA helps guarantee that they're surrounded by other people who feel the same way, and who are willing and able to spend money on atmosphere. It also helps them shun and get rid of People Different From Themselves.

In between these extremes there are communities where shared resources exist. Consider a gated community. Each household gets to decide whether to replace their own roof, but everyone has to chip in for the gate and driveway. Do the gate and fence add value from a security perspective? In some markets, yes they do. There's a direct relationship between whether a HOA or similar governing body exists, and the quality of life you experience while living in the neighborhood.

Goldielocks

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Re: Letter drop asking residents to devise a plan to replace "shabby" cars :)
« Reply #112 on: September 06, 2016, 02:05:20 PM »
Bad things can happen when you have a condo or townhouse without an HOA.  Most of the posts here seem to be about the evils of HOAs on detached homes, but HOA's exist for a very good reason...

Mainly that your neighbor can do whatever they like to their home (within the city building code and bylaws), and can let their side become run-down, causing potential damage to your home.


See pics...



AliEli

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Re: Letter drop asking residents to devise a plan to replace "shabby" cars :)
« Reply #113 on: September 06, 2016, 10:20:57 PM »
Why has this thread been hijacked by ppl from North America and their issues with HOAs? So much space on this forum is dedicated to North America already - do none of you have any curiousity about New Zealand???  This thread has gone in a really weird and irrelevant direction.

Primm

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Re: Letter drop asking residents to devise a plan to replace "shabby" cars :)
« Reply #114 on: September 06, 2016, 11:36:21 PM »
Why has this thread been hijacked by ppl from North America and their issues with HOAs? So much space on this forum is dedicated to North America already - do none of you have any curiousity about New Zealand???  This thread has gone in a really weird and irrelevant direction.

+1.

As far as I know NZ doesn't have HOAs, unless it's an apartment building and then they're body corps. Not for detached homes though, so your (collective you) arguments are irrelevant.

libertarian4321

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Re: Letter drop asking residents to devise a plan to replace "shabby" cars :)
« Reply #115 on: September 07, 2016, 02:17:00 AM »
Why has this thread been hijacked by ppl from North America and their issues with HOAs? So much space on this forum is dedicated to North America already - do none of you have any curiousity about New Zealand???  This thread has gone in a really weird and irrelevant direction.

Fascism is never irrelevant, and that's pretty much what most HOA's devolve into.

And as you may have guessed, I have scrupulously avoided HOA's like the plague that they are. 

Well, we have a voluntary HOA, and I contribute every year, but I'd never live in a place where some brown shirt comes around and measures the length of your grass looking for violations.

AliEli

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Re: Letter drop asking residents to devise a plan to replace "shabby" cars :)
« Reply #116 on: September 07, 2016, 04:43:43 AM »
Why has this thread been hijacked by ppl from North America and their issues with HOAs? So much space on this forum is dedicated to North America already - do none of you have any curiousity about New Zealand???  This thread has gone in a really weird and irrelevant direction.

Fascism is never irrelevant, and that's pretty much what most HOA's devolve into.

And as you may have guessed, I have scrupulously avoided HOA's like the plague that they are. 

Well, we have a voluntary HOA, and I contribute every year, but I'd never live in a place where some brown shirt comes around and measures the length of your grass looking for violations.



Seriously, WTF does this have to do with NZ and the article I posted??? I feel like the people who have posted beyond reply 18 haven't even read the article and it's just become a slanging match between a whole lot of yanks with issues :s  The person who wrote the letter in Whitby was probably a busybody with too much time on their hands, but they have nothing to do with Americans and their problems with HOAs in an entirely different hemisphere :s

This article (and the act) were hilarious - what's wrong that 80%+ of responses dont seem to care to have read the article????

libertarian4321

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Re: Letter drop asking residents to devise a plan to replace "shabby" cars :)
« Reply #117 on: September 07, 2016, 05:12:48 AM »
Why has this thread been hijacked by ppl from North America and their issues with HOAs? So much space on this forum is dedicated to North America already - do none of you have any curiousity about New Zealand???  This thread has gone in a really weird and irrelevant direction.

Fascism is never irrelevant, and that's pretty much what most HOA's devolve into.

And as you may have guessed, I have scrupulously avoided HOA's like the plague that they are. 

Well, we have a voluntary HOA, and I contribute every year, but I'd never live in a place where some brown shirt comes around and measures the length of your grass looking for violations.



Seriously, WTF does this have to do with NZ and the article I posted??? I feel like the people who have posted beyond reply 18 haven't even read the article and it's just become a slanging match between a whole lot of yanks with issues :s  The person who wrote the letter in Whitby was probably a busybody with too much time on their hands, but they have nothing to do with Americans and their problems with HOAs in an entirely different hemisphere :s

This article (and the act) were hilarious - what's wrong that 80%+ of responses dont seem to care to have read the article????

I'm not sure how to fix this.  Maybe the mods can set up a separate forum for New Zealand issues and the 12 New Zealanders on these boards can go there an hash things out?

in the mean time, the evil HOAs must be stopped, before they take over the world!

Goldielocks

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Re: Letter drop asking residents to devise a plan to replace "shabby" cars :)
« Reply #118 on: September 07, 2016, 05:20:55 AM »
Why has this thread been hijacked by ppl from North America and their issues with HOAs? So much space on this forum is dedicated to North America already - do none of you have any curiousity about New Zealand???  This thread has gone in a really weird and irrelevant direction.

Fascism is never irrelevant, and that's pretty much what most HOA's devolve into.

And as you may have guessed, I have scrupulously avoided HOA's like the plague that they are. 

Well, we have a voluntary HOA, and I contribute every year, but I'd never live in a place where some brown shirt comes around and measures the length of your grass looking for violations.



Seriously, WTF does this have to do with NZ and the article I posted??? I feel like the people who have posted beyond reply 18 haven't even read the article and it's just become a slanging match between a whole lot of yanks with issues :s  The person who wrote the letter in Whitby was probably a busybody with too much time on their hands, but they have nothing to do with Americans and their problems with HOAs in an entirely different hemisphere :s

This article (and the act) were hilarious - what's wrong that 80%+ of responses dont seem to care to have read the article????

Oh, I read it, and the article was great fun to read and laugh at....  triggering memories of my DH forced to write such a letter to me, his wife, about our newly painted door (because of HOA)...  my first response..

Then the image of the vehicles on the lawn was just too much to resist, and it was much, much, much more fun to read the panty-twisting responses over HOAs and reply to the on-going stream / current of the thread.

I am sure NZ and Australia have property / community boards for townhomes and apartments, so you can surely relate to the general tone of those americans!  Your letter writer is exactly the type that desires  those community boards and block standards.

This has been a terrific thread.  Started strong with your letter, then went in a (predictable) but very enthusiastic alternate direction.  Complete with eye catching photos.

This stopped being your thread around the third reply, I think.   Welcome to the forum.
« Last Edit: September 07, 2016, 05:29:47 AM by goldielocks »

BlueHouse

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Re: Letter drop asking residents to devise a plan to replace "shabby" cars :)
« Reply #119 on: September 07, 2016, 05:38:08 AM »
I appreciated that the letter-recipient posted the letter and asked for clarification. In addition, he was not afraid to identify his own "shitty" cars so everyone knew who the recipient was. This is a great tactic in shutting down bullies and stops new ones from joining in because they know the target won't be shamed into modifying behavior. Good job to the letter recipient.

But if he is parking his car in the wrong direction as accused in the article, he needs a letter for that because there are covenants against that. Those of us with mild OCD would have an issue. ;)

TheGrimSqueaker

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Re: Letter drop asking residents to devise a plan to replace "shabby" cars :)
« Reply #120 on: September 07, 2016, 09:33:51 AM »
So, perhaps the real issue here is how New Zealand has managed to stay free of homeowners' associations. Why didn't they catch on?

mm1970

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Re: Letter drop asking residents to devise a plan to replace "shabby" cars :)
« Reply #121 on: September 07, 2016, 09:37:21 AM »

You are a riot. I'm kicking back, retired decades before my piers, and enjoying a nice 100K+ passive income stream, and a seven figure account parked at Vanguard. You, OTOH want to have a sword waving contest about things you know fuck all nothing about, and need to babble about evidence, as if there is some moral imperative requiring me to whip out the spread sheets, and prove anything to you. As the sweet little old ladies say down south, "well, bless your heart".  It's about hard earned knowledge, experience, and being humble enough to learn from others, not being an asshat on this forum. Try it sometime, it can really send you to places you never dreamed of. As others have pointed out, you have worn out your welcome. Surely, there is some other forum that desperately needs you?

Apparently I struck a nerve. You're becoming quite unhinged. I asked for evidence, and all you provide is bluster and various logical fallacies. No one is requiring that you participate.
Actually, reading as a disinterested outsider, I'd say it's the other way around.  Doesn't sound unhinged at all.

Goldielocks

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Re: Letter drop asking residents to devise a plan to replace "shabby" cars :)
« Reply #122 on: September 07, 2016, 09:48:01 AM »
So, perhaps the real issue here is how New Zealand has managed to stay free of homeowners' associations. Why didn't they catch on?

They do.   Apparently called "Body Corporates".   Likely only used for multi-teannanted structures, rather than detached homes / neighborhoods.

Use of HOA's on detached homes was pretty rare, here, too, but becoming more common in mixed type developments that include a lot of townhomes and recreational facilities.

JLee

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Re: Letter drop asking residents to devise a plan to replace "shabby" cars :)
« Reply #123 on: September 07, 2016, 10:34:57 AM »
HOAs are awful (lived in one once in a rental for a year, never again), but sometimes local code enforcement can be almost as bad. 

This spring I got yelled at (no ticket though) for the grass in my (fenced!) back yard "looking bad."  I pointed out the fact that I had just dug up nearly the whole thing and put down seed, but that didn't seem to matter...

They had to come back in 60 days to make sure it had grown and was between x inches and y inches in length.  Dumb dumb dumb.

YUP.  I discovered this after I bought a house - a few months went by and I got a letter from the city complaining that a dead tree in my yard (50ft from the street) was a "blight" and I had to remove it within 10 days or pay a fine. 

They also can fine you if your grass is too long or if you have anything other than the city trash cans visible from the street.

SeaEhm

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Re: Letter drop asking residents to devise a plan to replace "shabby" cars :)
« Reply #124 on: September 07, 2016, 05:28:58 PM »
HOAs are awful (lived in one once in a rental for a year, never again), but sometimes local code enforcement can be almost as bad. 

This spring I got yelled at (no ticket though) for the grass in my (fenced!) back yard "looking bad."  I pointed out the fact that I had just dug up nearly the whole thing and put down seed, but that didn't seem to matter...

They had to come back in 60 days to make sure it had grown and was between x inches and y inches in length.  Dumb dumb dumb.

YUP.  I discovered this after I bought a house - a few months went by and I got a letter from the city complaining that a dead tree in my yard (50ft from the street) was a "blight" and I had to remove it within 10 days or pay a fine. 

They also can fine you if your grass is too long or if you have anything other than the city trash cans visible from the street.

WHAT!
THE!
%$^%!

They allow you to have your trash cans viewable from the street?  EWW!!!

Making Cookies

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Re: Letter drop asking residents to devise a plan to replace "shabby" cars :)
« Reply #125 on: September 08, 2016, 09:36:22 AM »
Within the city limits here in flyover country they have similar rules established by the city. Don't mow your grass? They mow it for you and send you a bill. Admittedly it has to really get out of hand. There is also another rule within the city limits about defunct vehicles. You are required to keep them registered and thus insured - this is supposedly to encourage folks to not just park a car in the driveway forever but to sell it if they aren't using it. Or put it inside a garage.

I heard one from a guy in the Tidewater area of VA where he had a property inspector crawl over the homeowner's fence into the back yard to look at a car parked behind a garage and was peeking into the homeowner's garage at another. Words were exchanged and the police was called - and the inspector had to leave... ;) They weren't visible from the street and nobody had complained so the inspector was beyond his authority.
« Last Edit: September 08, 2016, 01:19:25 PM by Joe Lucky »

paddedhat

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Re: Letter drop asking residents to devise a plan to replace "shabby" cars :)
« Reply #126 on: September 08, 2016, 11:14:56 AM »


Apparently I struck a nerve. You're becoming quite unhinged. I asked for evidence, and all you provide is bluster and various logical fallacies. No one is requiring that you participate.

Given your arrogance, I could in fact waste my time providing all manner of current resale $/sq.ft data. for the communities I live in, and do business in, and you would respond as you have with anything that doesn't parrot your thinking, by being condecending and nasty. I live in a rural area where decades, often a half century, have passed since most communities have formed their HOAs. Currently the value of these communities vary greatly, as does the quality of life they offer.  Since, like many rural HOAs, these organizations perform as defacto municipal governments, by providing, managing, and maintaining, infrastructure and services, along with amenities, it's not only logical, but evident, that the quality of life in individual communities can varied greatly, and rises and falls with the caliber of the management of the HOA. Over a fifty year span, two adjoining cities, towns, or rural communities can come to have huge differences in worth and livability based on the elected officials who run them, the HOA controlled communities in my region are no different. This is common sense, and has nothing to do with your needless attacks, and drivel about imaginary bluster and logical fallacies.

There are over a third of a million HOAs in the US. and over half of all owner occupied dwellings are covered by them.  If you are shopping in a rural area, and find that the majority of the available homes and/or land is located within HOA communities, take the time to get a feel for how well they are run, and specifically how they compare to the market area.  Regardless of the noise generated by Miles Teg, the quality and long term performance of the HOA can have a radical impact on your investment, particularly in a rural area, Also, be very wary of sellers and agents who are marketing properties that are "coming out of the ground", as in, they have a long history of troubled management, but everything is better now. The "new sheriff in town mentality" can be a two sided coin.These can be places where things are, in reality, really improving, after a long drought of poor management, or owners who refused to spend what it takes to keep the  place in shape. However, it may also be hiding board members with big dreams, and plans that need unworkable dues or assessments to fund. Finally, when it comes to rural HOAs, it's counterintuitive, but bigger can be better.  Mine has enough income that they can drop anywhere from a 1/4 to a full million on road work every year. There are nearby communities, that won't spend that in the next decade. The reason is that they draw from a pool of dozens of property owners, not thousands.

Dutch

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Re: Letter drop asking residents to devise a plan to replace "shabby" cars :)
« Reply #127 on: September 09, 2016, 02:18:50 AM »
I always chuckle when I hear people complain about HOAs.

I gladly pay my HOA fee every month for the peace of mind that they will bother my neighbor for any of the following:
Parking outside of a driveway or in front of their house (I don't want neighbors parking on lawns or having boats in their driveway)
Yard that looks terrible
House color that I don't approve of (neighbor wanted to paint their house so they have to come to me to sign off on their color choice before submitting it to the HOA)
Yard sculptures that are an eye sore (one neighborhood without an HOA has a huge rusted statute that is not artistically placed in a yard)

There is a neighbor that has had a car parked in the driveway without being moved for months and even that bothers me.  At least drive it so the cobwebs are gone.

Are you serious? 

You pay money every month because you are worried about someone putting a boat on their driveway or parking in the street?

That's a real first world problem.  I recommend an immediate dose of reality check. 
There are people in this world with real problems, go and ask a cancer patient if they care what colour their neighbours house is.  Absolutely ridiculous.
just reminds me of how i think of americans. They are the most easily offended people in the world almost about anything.

jinga nation

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Re: Letter drop asking residents to devise a plan to replace "shabby" cars :)
« Reply #128 on: September 09, 2016, 06:57:42 AM »
As an immigrant (and naturalized US citizen) from East Africa, I told my wife I don't want a house with a HOA. I live in a free country and I shall not be regulated on the color of my house, the grass isn't green when we have drought conditions, and other first world problems. I work with the military on a military base and there are real issues out there to deal with daily, e.g. Daesh.

frugalnacho

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Re: Letter drop asking residents to devise a plan to replace "shabby" cars :)
« Reply #129 on: September 09, 2016, 12:47:10 PM »
just reminds me of how i think of americans. They are the most easily offended people in the world almost about anything.

OMG I can't believe you just said that.  Get the mods in here!

SeaEhm

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Re: Letter drop asking residents to devise a plan to replace "shabby" cars :)
« Reply #130 on: September 09, 2016, 06:59:38 PM »
just reminds me of how i think of americans. They are the most easily offended people in the world almost about anything.

OMG I can't believe you just said that.  Get the mods in here!

Seriously!

How does one build a wall... A GIANT WALL...THE GREATEST WALL EVER BUILT on the internet?

Spork

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Re: Letter drop asking residents to devise a plan to replace "shabby" cars :)
« Reply #131 on: September 09, 2016, 07:01:09 PM »
just reminds me of how i think of americans. They are the most easily offended people in the world almost about anything.

OMG I can't believe you just said that.  Get the mods in here!

Seriously!

How does one build a wall... A GIANT WALL...THE GREATEST WALL EVER BUILT on the internet?

I don't know, but the MODS ARE GOING TO PAY FOR IT!

frugalnacho

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Re: Letter drop asking residents to devise a plan to replace "shabby" cars :)
« Reply #132 on: September 09, 2016, 10:32:53 PM »
just reminds me of how i think of americans. They are the most easily offended people in the world almost about anything.

OMG I can't believe you just said that.  Get the mods in here!

Seriously!

How does one build a wall... A GIANT WALL...THE GREATEST WALL EVER BUILT on the internet?

a FIRE wall?

Making Cookies

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Re: Letter drop asking residents to devise a plan to replace "shabby" cars :)
« Reply #133 on: September 11, 2016, 03:04:46 PM »
How about a PAY-wall. And then retire on the income?

SeaEhm

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Re: Letter drop asking residents to devise a plan to replace "shabby" cars :)
« Reply #134 on: September 11, 2016, 10:22:37 PM »
How about a PAY-wall. And then retire on the income?

Great idea!  Can we get an HOA side and a non HOA side. I want to live on the HOA side though because it will look consistent from one end to the other.  Repetition good. Repetition good.  Good.  Good. Comforting. Comfort.

jinga nation

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Re: Letter drop asking residents to devise a plan to replace "shabby" cars :)
« Reply #135 on: September 13, 2016, 11:46:36 AM »
just reminds me of how i think of americans. They are the most easily offended people in the world almost about anything.

OMG I can't believe you just said that.  Get the mods in here!

I'm American, but I'm not offended by this statement.  USA is a young civilization compared to other countries that have thousands of years of traditions.  We are in our adolescence and are therefore whiny and entitled.
I think the USA is a toddler, stumbling around the world and leaving behind a mess. I say this as an American.

TheGrimSqueaker

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Re: Letter drop asking residents to devise a plan to replace "shabby" cars :)
« Reply #136 on: September 13, 2016, 11:55:03 AM »
just reminds me of how i think of americans. They are the most easily offended people in the world almost about anything.

OMG I can't believe you just said that.  Get the mods in here!

I'm American, but I'm not offended by this statement.  USA is a young civilization compared to other countries that have thousands of years of traditions.  We are in our adolescence and are therefore whiny and entitled.
I think the USA is a toddler, stumbling around the world and leaving behind a mess. I say this as an American.
Those of us who live in the USA are also participating in a very big sociological experiment, where an entire system of government was set up not in response to supply and demand but to follow a theoretical model. It's hard to not feel a little bit like a lab rat.

Goldielocks

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Re: Letter drop asking residents to devise a plan to replace "shabby" cars :)
« Reply #137 on: September 16, 2016, 12:27:11 AM »
just reminds me of how i think of americans. They are the most easily offended people in the world almost about anything.

OMG I can't believe you just said that.  Get the mods in here!

I'm American, but I'm not offended by this statement.  USA is a young civilization compared to other countries that have thousands of years of traditions.  We are in our adolescence and are therefore whiny and entitled.
I think the USA is a toddler, stumbling around the world and leaving behind a mess. I say this as an American.

OT,  but my son is learning about the American Revolution now (grade 9).   Seeing it taught from a non-USA perspective is quite different than when my daughter studied it when we lived in California...

TheGrimSqueaker

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Re: Letter drop asking residents to devise a plan to replace "shabby" cars :)
« Reply #138 on: September 16, 2016, 08:42:07 AM »
just reminds me of how i think of americans. They are the most easily offended people in the world almost about anything.

OMG I can't believe you just said that.  Get the mods in here!

I'm American, but I'm not offended by this statement.  USA is a young civilization compared to other countries that have thousands of years of traditions.  We are in our adolescence and are therefore whiny and entitled.
I think the USA is a toddler, stumbling around the world and leaving behind a mess. I say this as an American.

OT,  but my son is learning about the American Revolution now (grade 9).   Seeing it taught from a non-USA perspective is quite different than when my daughter studied it when we lived in California...

Although I was born State-side I grew up outside the country and learned history from a non-USA perspective. Reading it from the other side has been most interesting.

Making Cookies

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Re: Letter drop asking residents to devise a plan to replace "shabby" cars :)
« Reply #139 on: September 16, 2016, 11:20:12 AM »
Please, both of you tell us more about this different perspective.

pbkmaine

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I remember touring Benedict Arnold's house in Montreal, where he was described as a "Loyalist". Being an American, that was quite a change of perspective.

Jack

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I remember touring Benedict Arnold's house in Montreal, where he was described as a "Loyalist". Being an American, that was quite a change of perspective.

People who supported the Crown during the American Revolution are called "Loyalists" in history class in US schools too, I think.

pbkmaine

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Not Benedict Arnold. In US history books he is called "Traitor", and is famous as one of the greatest in our history.

http://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/benedict-arnold-american-traitor-born

Goldielocks

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Re: Letter drop asking residents to devise a plan to replace "shabby" cars :)
« Reply #143 on: September 16, 2016, 02:37:21 PM »
Please, both of you tell us more about this different perspective.
Warning -- OT foam continues below -- bypass at will!

Well, for Canada, the teaching of the American Revolutions starts with the British defeating the French in what was "lower canada" in 1760, (allowing for soldiers to honorably return to their home countries) then issuing a proclamation in 1763 declaring the colony boundaries of Quebec (and Florida and grenada), giving Governor powers, identifying land territories set aside for the "Indians without harrassment or intrusion", etc.  This document is important as it outlines some of the early terms with the native populations, that were continuously eroded upon in future years  (an important theme in Canadian social studies throughout school years)

Of course, the Quebec colony boundaries completely encompassed the St. Lawrence seaway on BOTH north and south sides (through Lake Champlain), and was likely a trigger issue for the 13 colonies on the south side who saw that land as part of their control.  (British unilaterally declaring new colony boundaries without local input, etc)


dougules

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Re: Letter drop asking residents to devise a plan to replace "shabby" cars :)
« Reply #144 on: September 16, 2016, 02:51:23 PM »
Please, both of you tell us more about this different perspective.
Warning -- OT foam continues below -- bypass at will!

Well, for Canada, the teaching of the American Revolutions starts with the British defeating the French in what was "lower canada" in 1760, (allowing for soldiers to honorably return to their home countries) then issuing a proclamation in 1763 declaring the colony boundaries of Quebec (and Florida and grenada), giving Governor powers, identifying land territories set aside for the "Indians without harrassment or intrusion", etc.  This document is important as it outlines some of the early terms with the native populations, that were continuously eroded upon in future years  (an important theme in Canadian social studies throughout school years)

Of course, the Quebec colony boundaries completely encompassed the St. Lawrence seaway on BOTH north and south sides (through Lake Champlain), and was likely a trigger issue for the 13 colonies on the south side who saw that land as part of their control.  (British unilaterally declaring new colony boundaries without local input, etc)

I'm curious if we could get some native people from Alberta or BC to weigh in on British protection of indigenous rights in the west. Or maybe some Maoris for those who want to keep it Kiwi? :)

« Last Edit: September 16, 2016, 03:03:20 PM by dougules »

appleblossom

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Re: Letter drop asking residents to devise a plan to replace "shabby" cars :)
« Reply #145 on: September 17, 2016, 04:41:12 AM »
I appreciated that the letter-recipient posted the letter and asked for clarification. In addition, he was not afraid to identify his own "shitty" cars so everyone knew who the recipient was. This is a great tactic in shutting down bullies and stops new ones from joining in because they know the target won't be shamed into modifying behavior. Good job to the letter recipient.

But if he is parking his car in the wrong direction as accused in the article, he needs a letter for that because there are covenants against that. Those of us with mild OCD would have an issue. ;)

Parking the wrong direction wouldn't require a letter - just a call to the council to send out a parking warden.
 who will issue a fine. Parking the wrong way is against the law. But as long as the car is legally parked and road legal (registered and certified safe to drive) the neighbours can't do anything.

It's unlikely that there would be any covenants that would apply. Usually in NZ they cover house colour, house size etc when building, but wouldn't cover cars or parking, and it would be very difficult to enforce that kind of thing here.

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Re: Letter drop asking residents to devise a plan to replace "shabby" cars :)
« Reply #146 on: September 17, 2016, 04:55:57 AM »
What on earth is wrong with parking in the wrong direction? The vehicle is stationary!

Primm

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Re: Letter drop asking residents to devise a plan to replace "shabby" cars :)
« Reply #147 on: September 17, 2016, 05:43:20 AM »
Poor street lighting means that you rely on reflection (from the red reflectors only located on the rear of the car) to see what's parked on the side of the road. Parking the wrong way means reflectors don't work, because they're facing the wrong direction. So you're relying on people driving in unlit or poorly lit streets to use their common sense to tell whether there's a large immovable object parked on the side of the road that may cause damage to their own car should they run into it.

At least that's my understanding. Personally I've always managed to avoid said large immovable objects, but apparently some non-attentive drivers have a problem with them.

appleblossom

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Re: Letter drop asking residents to devise a plan to replace "shabby" cars :)
« Reply #148 on: September 18, 2016, 01:27:14 AM »
What on earth is wrong with parking in the wrong direction? The vehicle is stationary!

We have lots of parking laws. Some make more sense than others
https://www.nzta.govt.nz/resources/roadcode/about-driving/where-not-to-park/

That being said, where I live (about 30mins from the subject of the OP) we have some pretty thin windy roads, so people tend to park on just one side to avoid blocking the road, and sometimes there isn't enough space to turn around to get in the right direction. Most of the time people let that slide.
But that won't be the issue in Whitby.

hdatontodo

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What on earth is wrong with parking in the wrong direction? The vehicle is stationary!
To park with driver's wheels to curb means the car is driven on the wrong side of the road before and after parking.

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