Author Topic: Left family in Texas, moved to London for a job  (Read 14096 times)

NeverWasACornflakeGirl

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Left family in Texas, moved to London for a job
« on: November 13, 2013, 07:20:13 AM »
I went to an IBM conference in Las Vegas last week (the conference was great, Vegas was not my cup of tea), and I attended a "women in technology" panel as part of it.  Unfortunately, there was no diversity in the panel -- every one of the women was an A-type, CIO, work until you drop kind of person.  The one that stood out the most, though, was the woman who left her husband and three teenage daughters in Texas and moved to London for a job.  She assured us that she still parented via Skype, and that "you never see teenagers anyway."  When one of her daughters needs time with her she flies that daughter to London for a weekend.  She told us her marriage is still healthy because she hired a chef to cook for her family.  Her husband is also a very busy professional who works a lot.

I don't care what your gender is, that is just crazy. 
« Last Edit: November 13, 2013, 08:07:20 AM by Trina »
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Russ

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Re: Left family in Texas, moved to London for a job
« Reply #1 on: November 13, 2013, 07:26:31 AM »
She told us her marriage is still healthy because she hired a chef to cook for her family.

lollin'

econberkeley

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Re: Left family in Texas, moved to London for a job
« Reply #2 on: November 13, 2013, 09:41:00 AM »
I am sorry for her.

Michread

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Re: Left family in Texas, moved to London for a job
« Reply #3 on: November 13, 2013, 10:06:09 AM »
I'm sorry for her TEENAGERS! 

Until my eldest son went to college, we had dinner almost every night.  My teenage son at home now eats with us, his parents, every night. Teens need help with homework too!  Chemisty - how to figure out AMU, proof read English and history papers; parent/teacher nights at school, visiting colleges, sports games and arts performances, etc.

That mother's priorities are mixed up! 

NeverWasACornflakeGirl

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Re: Left family in Texas, moved to London for a job
« Reply #4 on: November 13, 2013, 10:53:01 AM »
Well, sure. That sort of madness works great when you hire a live-out spouse to do all the unpaid work that keeps a family running. I'm willing to bet money that in addition to the chef, there's a cleaning lady, restaurants, dry cleaner, a lawn service, a secretary who books doctor's appointments and arranges the daughter's plane tickets and who knows what else. I don't think that kind of arrangement is healthy, and I think it sets a terrible example for the kids, though.

I'm betting the husband is outsourcing some of her other functions as well....
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pachnik

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Re: Left family in Texas, moved to London for a job
« Reply #5 on: November 13, 2013, 10:54:33 AM »
Too bad she couldn't take her family with her.  That would be an amazing experience for her kids - a year in London seeing a new culture!

NeverWasACornflakeGirl

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Re: Left family in Texas, moved to London for a job
« Reply #6 on: November 13, 2013, 10:56:12 AM »
Too bad she couldn't take her family with her.  That would be an amazing experience for her kids - a year in London seeing a new culture!

She could have, but they didn't want to go (I missed the reason behind that).
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CeciliaW

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Re: Left family in Texas, moved to London for a job
« Reply #7 on: November 13, 2013, 11:11:42 AM »
Ok, my first reaction was "Yes! Anything that gets her out of Texas is a good thing."

Then I could totally relate to going after a good job in an interesting place.
I wonder what the reaction would have been if it was the Father that went to London and left Mom alone with the teenagers. Hmmm?

randymarsh

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Re: Left family in Texas, moved to London for a job
« Reply #8 on: November 13, 2013, 11:15:31 AM »
I'm betting the husband is outsourcing some of her other functions as well....

Exactly what I thought. Not sure if I'm a realist or too cynical.
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CommonCents

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Re: Left family in Texas, moved to London for a job
« Reply #9 on: November 13, 2013, 11:18:49 AM »
Ok, my first reaction was "Yes! Anything that gets her out of Texas is a good thing."

Then I could totally relate to going after a good job in an interesting place.
I wonder what the reaction would have been if it was the Father that went to London and left Mom alone with the teenagers. Hmmm?

+1

Also, I'll note that if mom/dad was deployed, I think folks would be having a different reaction.  This isn't the way I would want to raise kids/have a family, but I just would point out some biases folks have.

NeverWasACornflakeGirl

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Re: Left family in Texas, moved to London for a job
« Reply #10 on: November 13, 2013, 11:37:37 AM »
They've collectively decided that the kids, human beings they created, are some relatively unimportant appendage to their professional ambitions.

That was my reaction exactly.  I was away from my daughter for a week at the conference and I missed her horribly.  I would never abandon her for better job prospects.  Why did they have children??
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CommonCents

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Re: Left family in Texas, moved to London for a job
« Reply #11 on: November 13, 2013, 11:52:33 AM »
Ok, my first reaction was "Yes! Anything that gets her out of Texas is a good thing."

Then I could totally relate to going after a good job in an interesting place.
I wonder what the reaction would have been if it was the Father that went to London and left Mom alone with the teenagers. Hmmm?

I think it's still not ideal, but it's not as bad. But then I'm a horrible human being who does not fully buy into Enlightened Modern Notions Of Gender Roles In Parenting. The idea of sending mothers with children still at home across an ocean to seek their fortune is really, really new, and that isn't true for fathers. Men have left their families to work for a lot longer in human history. And deployed soldiers don't have a choice. If the military says you're going to Afghanistan next Thursday, you're going or you're getting court-martialed.

We'll have to very strongly disagree on whether there *should* be different standards applied to parenting for moms versus dads.  (Whether an idea is new or not doesn't make the idea itself right or wrong as a result of the novelty.)

Regarding military - you have a choice to join the military in the first place, knowing you could be deployed.  (Particularly in times like this.)  I say this as a military brat, who lived wherever the Coast Guard told us to live.  My dad had a choice both initially to join and a choice to stay in after he paid back his time.

Dezrah

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Re: Left family in Texas, moved to London for a job
« Reply #12 on: November 13, 2013, 12:19:56 PM »
I actually don't have a huge problem with her arrangement assuming it's temporary.  If I knew I were only going to be in London for one or two years at most and the opportunity was truly unique I'd probably take that kind of offer too.  We don't know most of those details for this woman's specific situation, so who knows.  It's the "this arrangement stinks and there's no end in sight" situation you really really want to avoid.

TrulyStashin

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Re: Left family in Texas, moved to London for a job
« Reply #13 on: November 13, 2013, 12:42:10 PM »
Ok, my first reaction was "Yes! Anything that gets her out of Texas is a good thing."

Then I could totally relate to going after a good job in an interesting place.
I wonder what the reaction would have been if it was the Father that went to London and left Mom alone with the teenagers. Hmmm?

I think it's still not ideal, but it's not as bad. But then I'm a horrible human being who does not fully buy into Enlightened Modern Notions Of Gender Roles In Parenting. The idea of sending mothers with children still at home across an ocean to seek their fortune is really, really new, and that isn't true for fathers. Men have left their families to work for a lot longer in human history. And deployed soldiers don't have a choice. If the military says you're going to Afghanistan next Thursday, you're going or you're getting court-martialed.

We'll have to very strongly disagree on whether there *should* be different standards applied to parenting for moms versus dads.  (Whether an idea is new or not doesn't make the idea itself right or wrong as a result of the novelty.)

Regarding military - you have a choice to join the military in the first place, knowing you could be deployed.  (Particularly in times like this.)  I say this as a military brat, who lived wherever the Coast Guard told us to live.  My dad had a choice both initially to join and a choice to stay in after he paid back his time.

As a rule, practices stay in use in a given culture because they're accomplishing something that's socially useful. It's not as though traditional gender roles were invented and maintained for centuries because someone took a fancy to them one day. Life, particularly in pre-modern environments tends to winnow out really destructive notions in very short order. (This is separate from the *moral* value of those ideas. Many successive generations of arranged cousin marriages are and have been very socially useful for certain cultures, that doesn't make them right.) Therefore, I tend to think new ideas, which are untested and often have unknown, unintended consequences, should be viewed warily when compared to practices that have been in use long enough that we know their advantages and disadvantages. We have not been sending women with children at home to foreign countries to advance their careers for centuries, and we don't really know how it affects their kids or marriages, and at what cost. The benefits: increased pay, higher status, improved career advancement certainly sound enticing, unless you're her kids.

These days, yes, joining the U.S. military is a choice. But I strongly suspect that many soldiers and National guardsmen joining up pre-August 2001 had no idea we'd be involved in two wars in the Middle East in short order. There's also a big difference, to me, in the value of a life spent protecting one's country vs. whatever the wife in question was doing, which I highly doubt was anything as noble as saving third world orphans or developing a cure for cancer. I also highly doubt that there wasn't someone else equally capable of doing her job who was not so encumbered with children who needed her.

August of 2001 was 12+ years ago.  Anyone who is currently deployed knew full well that it was a high probability when they made the commitment to military service.  Deployment is no different than choosing a job in London.  Great point -- we need to examine our biases.

Whatever we might think of the London-based person's choices, the rationale set forth above is a powerful justification for treating women as less than fully human and less free than men.  Arguing that, historically, women's sphere of influence was less than that of a man's and it therefore should remain less until we have sufficient evidence that women's expanded role causes no harm creates a circularity equal to a prison.   We cannot gather the evidence you require unless we push past old limits and traditions, yet you reject expansion of influence without the evidence.  It's a circular trap that limits both men and women.

We also have to acknowledge that women are no longer subject to the whims of their biology like they were prior to about 1965.  So, the vast majority of human history which you cite as reason for a more limited role, is skewed by the mere fact that women had little or no control over reproduction.  That's simply no longer the case and therefore the weight of historical evidence is lessened.

All that said, I think children (especially teens) are best served by active, attentive parents (plural; not gender specific) who are invested in their well-being.
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TrulyStashin

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Re: Left family in Texas, moved to London for a job
« Reply #14 on: November 13, 2013, 12:52:11 PM »
I actually don't have a huge problem with her arrangement assuming it's temporary.  If I knew I were only going to be in London for one or two years at most and the opportunity was truly unique I'd probably take that kind of offer too.  We don't know most of those details for this woman's specific situation, so who knows.  It's the "this arrangement stinks and there's no end in sight" situation you really really want to avoid.

And it is the perfect opportunity for the father to reduce his work-related responsibilities for a year or two ("off-ramping") and focus on his teenage girls.  What a powerful message to these young women -- that mom can take a challenging opportunity and her partner will alter his life in support.   That's the kind of man these girls should marry.

The problem arises when both parents are AWOL from the kids.
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NumberJohnny5

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Re: Left family in Texas, moved to London for a job
« Reply #15 on: November 13, 2013, 01:11:15 PM »
Their family, their choice, I guess.

Wife has had to be away from me and the kids for a few months (month and a half one time, a month the other) and it was extremely hard on her. We vowed that we'd never get ourselves in a situation where we HAD to be separated like that.

Simple Abundant Living

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Re: Left family in Texas, moved to London for a job
« Reply #16 on: November 13, 2013, 01:28:07 PM »
Clearly, it's not an ideal situation for the kids.  But what about the marriage?  I never think it's ideal for a marriage to be separated like that.  (Military marriages are an example of this).  I'd hate to think the husband is outsourcing his affections as well...
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Angelfishtitan

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Re: Left family in Texas, moved to London for a job
« Reply #17 on: November 13, 2013, 02:06:42 PM »
And it is the perfect opportunity for the father to reduce his work-related responsibilities for a year or two ("off-ramping") and focus on his teenage girls.  What a powerful message to these young women -- that mom can take a challenging opportunity and her partner will alter his life in support.   That's the kind of man these girls should marry.

The problem arises when both parents are AWOL from the kids.

Agreed, a couple needs to determine what the best plan is for both their relationship and their children's development. It appears that this woman and her husband did not try to optimize that, though it is hard to judge from the little information.

Look, you think feminism was and is a great idea. I think it's the death warrant for Western Civilization, and (to me) that's a shame. We aren't going to convince each other, so if you don't mind, I'm not going to argue with your further, in the interests of not derailing the thread into a political back-and-forth. All the best.

Calling feminism the "death warrant for Western Civilization" when it includes something as simple as a woman being albe to choose when and with whom she has sex is hyperbolic to say the least. Feminism is for equal rights and opportunites except in the more extreme idealogies. Talk about a bias.

totoro

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Re: Left family in Texas, moved to London for a job
« Reply #18 on: November 13, 2013, 02:18:47 PM »
My experience is that I lose happiness when I don't spend time with my kids.  I would not be willing to have that lifestyle.
 
That said, I do know several families with long distance parenting for various reasons and the kids seem okay and well cared for. 

acroy

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Re: Left family in Texas, moved to London for a job
« Reply #19 on: November 13, 2013, 02:19:57 PM »
Very interesting conversation on priorities
May be a topic for another thread – see if there is a consensus amongst Mustachians re: prioritization of life’s duties & responsibilities.
My personal priority list is:
God
Family
Country
Work
The rest is details…..

So – abandon the family for work? Not happening. Be a dick or lie/steal/cheat at work to get ahead, make more money? No can do. Join the military, knowing I’d have to leave my family? Nope.

It seems most Mustachians prioritize the “Work” quite highly as a means to get to FI – but why is FI so attractive, and at what cost?
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acroy

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Re: Left family in Texas, moved to London for a job
« Reply #20 on: November 13, 2013, 02:22:06 PM »
Ok, my first reaction was "Yes! Anything that gets her out of Texas is a good thing."

Then I could totally relate to going after a good job in an interesting place.
I wonder what the reaction would have been if it was the Father that went to London and left Mom alone with the teenagers. Hmmm?

+1

Also, I'll note that if mom/dad was deployed, I think folks would be having a different reaction.  This isn't the way I would want to raise kids/have a family, but I just would point out some biases folks have.

and hey, quit the Texas bashin. it's a phenomenal place to grow a Mustache!
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Angelfishtitan

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Re: Left family in Texas, moved to London for a job
« Reply #21 on: November 13, 2013, 02:33:19 PM »
It seems most Mustachians prioritize the “Work” quite highly as a means to get to FI – but why is FI so attractive, and at what cost?

I think most mustachians' priority list, and I would guess MMM, though is more of (not including spirituality due to various views):

Family/Friends/Own Health all approximately equal
The Details

The whole point of mustachianism, even before FIRE, is freedom. Though a job is important to get money, a specific one is not important on its own as there are plenty of opportunities in the world that will work around YOU! Most of the draw of FIRE is the ability to enjoy more time with your family and friends along with doing what you enjoy, to improve both physical and mental health.

CommonCents

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Re: Left family in Texas, moved to London for a job
« Reply #22 on: November 13, 2013, 06:36:54 PM »
Ok, my first reaction was "Yes! Anything that gets her out of Texas is a good thing."

Then I could totally relate to going after a good job in an interesting place.
I wonder what the reaction would have been if it was the Father that went to London and left Mom alone with the teenagers. Hmmm?

+1

Also, I'll note that if mom/dad was deployed, I think folks would be having a different reaction.  This isn't the way I would want to raise kids/have a family, but I just would point out some biases folks have.

and hey, quit the Texas bashin. it's a phenomenal place to grow a Mustache!

Ha, better than here in Boston.

My +1 was more to the father leaving remark...but I admit I considered deleting the Texas portion and didn't.  I'd be feeling more charitable I think if the steak I had had in May when I finally visited (about state 40) for a wedding had been better.  You built up my expectations too high!

olivia

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Re: Left family in Texas, moved to London for a job
« Reply #23 on: November 13, 2013, 06:54:46 PM »
And it is the perfect opportunity for the father to reduce his work-related responsibilities for a year or two ("off-ramping") and focus on his teenage girls.  What a powerful message to these young women -- that mom can take a challenging opportunity and her partner will alter his life in support.   That's the kind of man these girls should marry.

The problem arises when both parents are AWOL from the kids.

Agreed, a couple needs to determine what the best plan is for both their relationship and their children's development. It appears that this woman and her husband did not try to optimize that, though it is hard to judge from the little information.

Look, you think feminism was and is a great idea. I think it's the death warrant for Western Civilization, and (to me) that's a shame. We aren't going to convince each other, so if you don't mind, I'm not going to argue with your further, in the interests of not derailing the thread into a political back-and-forth. All the best.

Calling feminism the "death warrant for Western Civilization" when it includes something as simple as a woman being albe to choose when and with whom she has sex is hyperbolic to say the least. Feminism is for equal rights and opportunites except in the more extreme idealogies. Talk about a bias.

Ditto all of this-well said.  The "death warrant" comment actually made me LOL.  WOW.
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wtjbatman

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Re: Left family in Texas, moved to London for a job
« Reply #24 on: November 16, 2013, 03:01:32 AM »
I actually don't have a huge problem with her arrangement assuming it's temporary.  If I knew I were only going to be in London for one or two years at most and the opportunity was truly unique I'd probably take that kind of offer too.  We don't know most of those details for this woman's specific situation, so who knows.  It's the "this arrangement stinks and there's no end in sight" situation you really really want to avoid.

And it is the perfect opportunity for the father to reduce his work-related responsibilities for a year or two ("off-ramping") and focus on his teenage girls.  What a powerful message to these young women -- that mom can take a challenging opportunity and her partner will alter his life in support.   That's the kind of man these girls should marry.

I imagine that with wifey gone overseas for two years, the father may be sending a "powerful message" to another young woman in his life. Yes sir, he's showing this young lady what "off-ramping" really means.

Quince

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Re: Left family in Texas, moved to London for a job
« Reply #25 on: November 16, 2013, 06:16:13 AM »
I don't see a huge problem with this. I wouldn't be doing it, but she knows her family best. I don't like the hiring a chef as having anything to do with marital strength, as though cooking is a wifely thing, but maybe that works for her family.

I didn't need help with homework when I was a teen, I cooked for my family a couple of times a week, I negotiated my parents NOT to move with them when they moved when I was 15 (stayed with my grandparents) and still managed to get 25K a year in scholarships for college.

I spent summers with my parents, and spoke with them often, but most of the parenting in my life was done BEFORE I was nearly an adult. I know this wouldn't work for everyone, but people all live their lives differently, and they get to choose for themselves what the best fit is.

Right now, I hate being away from my spouse for more than a couple of days. I haven't been away from my infant for more than a few hours yet.  In 15 years, who knows what the best fit for our lives will be?


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Re: Left family in Texas, moved to London for a job
« Reply #26 on: November 16, 2013, 09:49:11 AM »
I agree with Quince. By the time I was a teenager, I could take care of myself and didn't need parenting because my grandmother had already instilled her values and morals.

Think of it as a practice run for college. We don't think its wrong for people who are only a few years older to go off to college by themselves and not call/see their parents every day.

« Last Edit: November 16, 2013, 09:59:08 AM by Fuyu »

TrulyStashin

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Re: Left family in Texas, moved to London for a job
« Reply #27 on: November 18, 2013, 08:02:00 AM »
I actually don't have a huge problem with her arrangement assuming it's temporary.  If I knew I were only going to be in London for one or two years at most and the opportunity was truly unique I'd probably take that kind of offer too.  We don't know most of those details for this woman's specific situation, so who knows.  It's the "this arrangement stinks and there's no end in sight" situation you really really want to avoid.

And it is the perfect opportunity for the father to reduce his work-related responsibilities for a year or two ("off-ramping") and focus on his teenage girls.  What a powerful message to these young women -- that mom can take a challenging opportunity and her partner will alter his life in support.   That's the kind of man these girls should marry.

I imagine that with wifey gone overseas for two years, the father may be sending a "powerful message" to another young woman in his life. Yes sir, he's showing this young lady what "off-ramping" really means.

So you're saying that in general men are so base and so incapable of self control that infidelity is inevitable?   There seem to be several posts here along this line.   How very offensive to men......

Let's see, we've got "feminism is the death warrant of W. Civ"  (in which case, feminism had better get serious about it.  After all the idea is about 300 years old and W. Civ seems to be chugging right along)

And, men are such knuckle-dragging troglodytes that they can't be responsible to their commitments without a woman standing over them.

Wow.
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jrhampt

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Re: Left family in Texas, moved to London for a job
« Reply #28 on: November 18, 2013, 09:14:51 AM »
I actually don't have a huge problem with her arrangement assuming it's temporary.  If I knew I were only going to be in London for one or two years at most and the opportunity was truly unique I'd probably take that kind of offer too.  We don't know most of those details for this woman's specific situation, so who knows.  It's the "this arrangement stinks and there's no end in sight" situation you really really want to avoid.

And it is the perfect opportunity for the father to reduce his work-related responsibilities for a year or two ("off-ramping") and focus on his teenage girls.  What a powerful message to these young women -- that mom can take a challenging opportunity and her partner will alter his life in support.   That's the kind of man these girls should marry.

I imagine that with wifey gone overseas for two years, the father may be sending a "powerful message" to another young woman in his life. Yes sir, he's showing this young lady what "off-ramping" really means.

So you're saying that in general men are so base and so incapable of self control that infidelity is inevitable?   There seem to be several posts here along this line.   How very offensive to men......

Let's see, we've got "feminism is the death warrant of W. Civ"  (in which case, feminism had better get serious about it.  After all the idea is about 300 years old and W. Civ seems to be chugging right along)

And, men are such knuckle-dragging troglodytes that they can't be responsible to their commitments without a woman standing over them.

Wow.

Agreed. 

I'm not even going to address the "feminism = death warrant of civilization" comment, because it's ridiculous, in the same way that saying "abolishing slavery = death warrant of southern way of life."  Um, if it is, good riddance anyway?

Anyway, I'd say there's probably an equal likelihood that the wife finds a new boyfriend in London.  I'm sure it's not as though they won't be seeing each other AT ALL during that time...and marriages have been known to survive military deployments, for that matter.

Simple Abundant Living

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Re: Left family in Texas, moved to London for a job
« Reply #29 on: November 18, 2013, 10:13:29 AM »

So you're saying that in general men are so base and so incapable of self control that infidelity is inevitable?   There seem to be several posts here along this line.   How very offensive to men......


I think that self control is possible, but I wouldn't want to have a separation like that from my DH.  I also don't think that men would be the only one tempted to stray.  Loneliness isn't property of just one gender...
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Re: Left family in Texas, moved to London for a job
« Reply #30 on: November 18, 2013, 11:12:45 AM »
So you're saying that in general men are so base and so incapable of self control that infidelity is inevitable?   There seem to be several posts here along this line.   How very offensive to men....

Might also consider the possibility that these people don't actually consider sexual fidelity the be-all and end-all of married life.  I confess I've never understood it myself: why one partner can be driven to violence and/or throwing a large part part of the couple's wealth & future prospects to lawyers over a bit of sex on the side.

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Re: Left family in Texas, moved to London for a job
« Reply #31 on: November 18, 2013, 11:20:24 AM »


I'm betting the husband is outsourcing some of her other functions as well....
[/quote]

And vice-versa. 

rufflina

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Re: Left family in Texas, moved to London for a job
« Reply #32 on: November 18, 2013, 02:20:57 PM »
How would we all feel if a family sent their children to boarding school for high school? And I don't mean boarding school for troubled teenagers; I mean schools like Exeter and Andover which are as hard to get into as highly selective colleges. Of course not everyone would make that choice (if they even had the opportunity to), but I wouldn't criticize anyone as a parent who did. There are many ways to raise children.

In particular I have a close friend whose mother left her husband and him (<5 years old) in China for a once in a lifetime opportunity to be a visiting scholar in New York City. It was a tough 1-2 years, but eventually they were all able to make the move to the US and today she still has an extremely successful career as a professor in sociology (and is also still married to her husband). My friend/her son is now a professor himself. So there's one situation where I would say the sacrifice was worth it. But you would have to know all the details to judge.

NumberJohnny5

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Re: Left family in Texas, moved to London for a job
« Reply #33 on: November 18, 2013, 06:11:44 PM »
Maybe there's more to this story that hasn't been posted...but this doesn't sound Antimustachian at all. I mean, it CAN be, but nothing posted screams "these people are desperately hurting for money, and are spending like there's tomorrow, they're idiots!

Or maybe the mods just haven't gotten around to changing the title of this category from "Antimustachian Wall of Shame and Comedy" to "Let's make fun of people who make choices we think are stupid."

I don't like others judging our lifestyle, especially if it's not hurting them one iota. Why are we judging this family so harshly? I agree, it's not a lifestyle I would ever choose, but they're also not me. Maybe this works out great for them. Maybe the mom and daughters have a better relationship the way things are setup.

And for all I know, the husband and wife have decided to have an open relationship (whether temporarily during the long distance apart, or much earlier). Not my choice...but I don't look down at others who have made a different choice that works for them. I've heard how some military families work...and it seems (in general) there's more leeway with "getting some on the side" when both partners are located on the other side of the globe. So be it.

As for the kids; maybe they'll turn out better, having dealt with multiple groups of adults in their teenage years, vs mainly mom and dad (and when you're a teenager, mom and dad don't really count toward your socializing time).

Now, report back on how the mom really wishes she could be at home with the kids, but has to keep working to pay for the large house she never gets to use, the cook/maid/etc. to take care of the spouse and kids while she's away, the three new SUVs back home that she doesn't get any use out of (and the two she has in London, so she can drive 1.5 blocks to work)...and I think we've got a great thread for the Antimustachian Wall of Shame and Sadness...I mean Comedy.

grantmeaname

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Re: Left family in Texas, moved to London for a job
« Reply #34 on: November 18, 2013, 07:47:51 PM »
Or maybe the mods just haven't gotten around to changing the title of this category from "Antimustachian Wall of Shame and Comedy" to "Let's make fun of people who make choices we think are stupid."
There's only a narrow distinction there.

NumberJohnny5

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Re: Left family in Texas, moved to London for a job
« Reply #35 on: November 18, 2013, 08:02:45 PM »
Or maybe the mods just haven't gotten around to changing the title of this category from "Antimustachian Wall of Shame and Comedy" to "Let's make fun of people who make choices we think are stupid."
There's only a narrow distinction there.

Squares are always rectangles, but rectangles are not always squares.

So we may agree that all Antimustachian choices are stupid choices (at least from our point of view...it may not be stupid for the person making them, but that's another thread). But not all stupid choices are Antimustachian. For example, I could choose to dye my hair pink using free hair dye leftover from Halloween. That might be a stupid choice for me (blue's more my color), but it wouldn't affect our finances one tiny bit.

grantmeaname

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Re: Left family in Texas, moved to London for a job
« Reply #36 on: November 18, 2013, 08:04:20 PM »
I agree. I'm just saying that antimustachianism is subjective and extends beyond personal finances.

expatartist

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Re: Left family in Texas, moved to London for a job
« Reply #37 on: November 18, 2013, 11:52:21 PM »
DH and I have spent, in total, about a third of our ten years apart. People said we'd never last. But actually, time apart has meant we get to do projects that mean a lot to us, and also appreciate our time together. We don't have kids, so it'd be tougher to negotiate time apart. But I know we would do so from time to time.

I do find it interesting how, when my brother decided to spend months in retreat last summer at a hermitage (to finish off research from a previous project), leaving his wife and 6-month-old to stay at her parents, no one batted an eye. It wasn't necessary for him to leave, he just wanted time away to finish his work. If she'd decided to do the same with such a young child, I imagine there'd be some outrage...

NeverWasACornflakeGirl

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Re: Left family in Texas, moved to London for a job
« Reply #38 on: November 19, 2013, 04:42:24 AM »
Maybe there's more to this story that hasn't been posted...but this doesn't sound Antimustachian at all. I mean, it CAN be, but nothing posted screams "these people are desperately hurting for money, and are spending like there's tomorrow, they're idiots!

Or maybe the mods just haven't gotten around to changing the title of this category from "Antimustachian Wall of Shame and Comedy" to "Let's make fun of people who make choices we think are stupid."

I don't like others judging our lifestyle, especially if it's not hurting them one iota. Why are we judging this family so harshly? I agree, it's not a lifestyle I would ever choose, but they're also not me. Maybe this works out great for them. Maybe the mom and daughters have a better relationship the way things are setup.


I suggest that you go back and read Mr Money Mustache's posts from beginning to end.  Mustachianism is not just about wasting money.
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Fletch

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Re: Left family in Texas, moved to London for a job
« Reply #39 on: November 19, 2013, 05:39:01 AM »
I don't see how this is antmustaschian either. I had a parent deployed for almost two years in the middle school/ high school transition time, and then I went to boarding school for the last 2 years of high school. I turned out just fine.
This woman's success and her husbands success are important to them, so they went for it full steam ahead without worrying about what society thinks about their "weird" choice.

NumberJohnny5

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Re: Left family in Texas, moved to London for a job
« Reply #40 on: November 19, 2013, 12:52:08 PM »
I suggest that you go back and read Mr Money Mustache's posts from beginning to end.  Mustachianism is not just about wasting money.

Ok...work extremely hard, make a big pile of money in a short period of time, save most of it, retire.

So maybe they're a little late to the game...but who's saying that they're NOT working really hard, making a big pile of money, and saving the majority of it for retirement? There's a few things you can point to, that might suggest they're not being frugal, but we can't know that. Maybe the dad COULD spend an extra hour or two cooking per day, but his job is such that he would be losing $500 per day (not all are 9-5). The mother doesn't have to fly her daughters to London to see her...but it seems a lot of people here are complaining about her not spending enough time with her family. Maybe she's making $300k/yr more by being in London, and "only" spending $60k/yr in extra expenses due to living separate from her family (cost of rent, a cook for the family, and airfare). $300k - $60k is still $240k. Makes sense to me.

All I'm saying, is nothing screams "they're spending more than they earn, they'll never retire!" to me. It might scream "there's no way I could do this!", but that's it. And even if they're not the most frugal people on the planet...this section of the forum is the Antimustachian Wall of Shame and Comedy...as in, you're so anti-frugal, so far away from "Mustachianism", that it's completely laughable (to us). For example, someone who saves 10% of their income should never have their story posted here, though they probably wouldn't get their story posted in "Mustachianism Around the Web". Just buying a new iphone shouldn't land you here...but buying a new iphone a month after your car was repossessed, and claiming you don't have cash for groceries for your two kids...post away!

grantmeaname

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Re: Left family in Texas, moved to London for a job
« Reply #41 on: November 19, 2013, 01:54:16 PM »
Quote
Ok...work extremely hard, make a big pile of money in a short period of time, save most of it, retire.
Also compassion, environmental awareness, insourcing and self-reliance... you're still bringing it all back to money, and that's simply not what the site's about.

NumberJohnny5

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Re: Left family in Texas, moved to London for a job
« Reply #42 on: November 19, 2013, 02:25:31 PM »
Quote
Ok...work extremely hard, make a big pile of money in a short period of time, save most of it, retire.
Also compassion, environmental awareness, insourcing and self-reliance... you're still bringing it all back to money, and that's simply not what the site's about.

My point was more along the lines of "Working hard, make a lot of money, save most of it, then retire" would not qualify someone to be in the Antimustachian Wall of Shame and Comedy. And there's nothing posted about this family that tells me, beyond a reasonable doubt, that they're not doing just this. Hence...I think this would be better suited for Off-Topic.

Ok, let's define Mustachianism. A big, undeniable part will be "Spend less than you earn." Don't do that, you're not mustachian (I'd be lenient...you can earn a lot one year and coast the next; just don't go into debt for your year off). Right behind that would be "Make lots of money, don't give in to lifestyle inflation (much), save a buttload of cash." Nipping on the heels is "Retire early, but use this definition of 'retire', not that silly dictionary one."

There's other scriptures...er...commandments...no that's not it...tenets? Be kind to others, deprive yourself of certain luxuries to feel more alive, be responsible with the environment, etc.

Follow the core message, you're in the club. You're encouraged (perhaps strongly so) to follow the other rules, but they're not absolutely necessary. I.e. one can be a Christian, even if they own a Payday loan store.

grantmeaname

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Re: Left family in Texas, moved to London for a job
« Reply #43 on: November 19, 2013, 02:31:49 PM »
"When one of her daughters needs time with her she flies that daughter to London for a weekend.  She told us her marriage is still healthy because she hired a chef to cook for her family.  Her husband is also a very busy professional who works a lot." sounds a lot like lifestyle inflation and environmental unconsciousness to me, and there's literally no evidence they're saving any more than if she stayed at home in Texas, much less all of the supposed increase.

NumberJohnny5

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Re: Left family in Texas, moved to London for a job
« Reply #44 on: November 19, 2013, 03:48:07 PM »
"When one of her daughters needs time with her she flies that daughter to London for a weekend.  She told us her marriage is still healthy because she hired a chef to cook for her family.  Her husband is also a very busy professional who works a lot." sounds a lot like lifestyle inflation and environmental unconsciousness to me, and there's literally no evidence they're saving any more than if she stayed at home in Texas, much less all of the supposed increase.

I agree, from what's posted there's no evidence they're saving more than if she stayed in Texas. My point is, there is equally no evidence saying they're saving less.

We have some (minimal) experience with working "away from home." If the demand is great enough, you'll get paid quite a bit. You'll likely get free housing or a housing allowance. Also a meal allowance, travel allowance, etc. My wife made more working 6 months in Fairbanks Alaska than she could back in Tennessee working all 12 months. Now, we did things a bit differently; kids and I traveled with her, so we weren't apart for months at a time (longest stretch apart was nearly 1.5 months, which we don't care to do again). Anyways, I can definitely see a situation where both parents are in the same house and both are working; then one gets an awesome high-paying opportunity that will help them really make bank for the next X years. The parent who stays behind doesn't want to leave his/her career, so they make the decision to hire a chef. In addition to the additional cost of the chef, they have also factored in additional costs for airfare (just as our family did when deciding whether to go all the way to Alaska or not, and when we later went to Australia).

Sorry, but the thread doesn't reek of "OMG, they're hundreds of thousands in debt, have no jobs, house is getting foreclosed on, and they STILL bought the new iphone?" or even "WTF, they complain about having to be apart for years at a time, but won't stop buying crap? DON'T THEY KNOW THAT THEIR CONSUMPTION OF LATTES AND NEW SUVS IS WHAT'S KEEPING THEM APART, NOT THE OVERSEAS JOB??!!" Rather, it reeks of "OMG, their family life sounds way different than what I perceive as normal, so I must make fun of them!"
« Last Edit: November 19, 2013, 03:51:00 PM by josetann »

Angelfishtitan

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Re: Left family in Texas, moved to London for a job
« Reply #45 on: November 20, 2013, 11:57:33 AM »
She told us her marriage is still healthy because she hired a chef to cook for her family.

Honestly, out of everything else in the original post this is what stood out to me, although I agreed in one of my previous posts that there is not enough info to go on for anything. Like has been said, teenagers barely want to see there parents anyway and it doesn't sound like she is fully ignoring their development. Not optimal, but certainly not terrible based on the initial post.

But to think there won't be any friction in your marriage when moving to London because you hired a chef? My wife would have laughed in my face if that was my solution to not seeing her for X number of months.
I would hope there is far more thought to the couple's situation than that, though there is only mention of the daughters going to see mom. Might even be that the couple needed some time away to revitalize their marriage, who knows?

Edit: Also is it just me or is calling out someone for posting an inappropriate story just as nerve racking as the person who posted it? Loosen up guys, its not like there are really any rules for this board.
« Last Edit: November 20, 2013, 11:59:45 AM by Angelfishtitan »

NeverWasACornflakeGirl

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Re: Left family in Texas, moved to London for a job
« Reply #46 on: November 21, 2013, 12:07:24 PM »

Edit: Also is it just me or is calling out someone for posting an inappropriate story just as nerve racking as the person who posted it? Loosen up guys, its not like there are really any rules for this board.

I think there are many different understandings of what "mustachianism" is.  To some, it seems to be a synonym for frugality.  To me, MMM also emphasizes relationships and connections with other people.  He and his wife didn't even have a child until they were FI so they could make family the center of their lives.  So, to me, a parent who leaves his/her children and spouse as a career move is antimustachian.  It's OK if that's not how others define mustachianism.  :-)
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