Author Topic: law school graduate whiner  (Read 4359 times)

Freedom2016

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law school graduate whiner
« on: December 17, 2013, 12:52:43 PM »
Oh my. I'm not a lawyer, but have many lawyer friends and family members. It's painful to read the Business Insider interview (link below), with this guy blaming everything under the sun for the situation he's in now. Yeah, $200k in student loans sucks, but you knew that going in. Sorry the job market didn't deliver your dream job on a silver platter, but the fact that you earn $45,000, pay only $400/mo in student loans, apparently live with your parents, and still complain that you can't afford anything is ridiculous. Grow a pair, dude. Ugh.

http://www.businessinsider.com/is-law-school-worth-the-money-2013-12

CommonCents

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Re: law school graduate whiner
« Reply #1 on: December 17, 2013, 01:03:38 PM »
Well, each article like this increases the chances a future law student rethinks their plan.

And he is correct that law schools massage their employment numbers.  And they kinda suck at career services other than biglaw.

I do find it ridiculous he is planning an income based repayment and then bankruptcy to avoid a gift tax, rather than planning ahead 25 years and saving for the bill.  I also find his whining about his sacrifices ridiculous. 

Top 20% grades are also not required at a top 20 school to get a job.

I think the rumor about same-section scholarships is bunk.

MgoSam

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Re: law school graduate whiner
« Reply #2 on: December 17, 2013, 01:08:59 PM »
This was one of the main reasons I didn't go to law school. Growing up I thought I would always be a lawyer but am very glad I didn't take that track. There are way too many lawyers in the US and while there are a huge chunk of them that make money, there are many more that don't. Also by profession they are among the worst savers, which can lead to long-term pain, so I am even more happy that I haven't had that career path.

Freedom2016

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Re: law school graduate whiner
« Reply #3 on: December 17, 2013, 01:09:42 PM »
I, for one, heeded the advice of my friends in law school who warned me against it (despite my lawyer dad's encouragement to go). It was obvious a law degree would create a golden handcuffs problem so I pursued my interests in other ways, sans JD.

It just seems like this kid didn't do any real due diligence beforehand and is now bitter and blaming everyone else for his (bad) decision. I never, ever once considered my undergrad or grad institutions responsible for shepherding my career or otherwise guaranteeing my success - financially or otherwise. This kid's entitlement attitude is nauseating.

senecando

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Re: law school graduate whiner
« Reply #4 on: December 17, 2013, 01:21:21 PM »
Good to hear this homie doesn't think 45k is a "respectable" salary or a "living wage". ♫ This is a very sad story ♫

MgoSam

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Re: law school graduate whiner
« Reply #5 on: December 17, 2013, 01:25:11 PM »
Good to hear this homie doesn't think 45k is a "respectable" salary or a "living wage". ♫ This is a very sad story ♫

I agree. I get paid less than he does, but then again I live in MN which has lower expenses than VA. Also, I imagine that he has lawyer friends who might have a spendier lifestyle than my friends do. To an extent it isn't about how much you make, but how much you can avoid spending.

MgoSam

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Re: law school graduate whiner
« Reply #6 on: December 17, 2013, 01:42:41 PM »
I re-read the article and I don't think the guy sounds angry or is bad in any way. Instead he is writing to warn people before making a mistake he thinks he made. To put yourself out there that publicly is commendable, in my opinion. It is because of people like him that I didn't go to law school, even though my parents sprung for an LSAT course that was wasted.

Now that I think about it I feel terrible about the amount they spent on the LSAT course (since paid back), but I think if it is compared to the cost of tuitition and time and stress and misery, it was a drop of a water in a bucket.

StarswirlTheMustached

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Re: law school graduate whiner
« Reply #7 on: December 17, 2013, 02:44:38 PM »
I agree with MgoSam.
 Practically the first quote is:
Quote
"At the end of the day, it's my own fault for being a sucker and I learned an extremely hard lesson."
He takes responsibility.

He's right though, in that he was screwed with and lied to. That he bought the lies? Yeah, his responsibility, and he admits it. Guy just needs to come on over here and learn how to live like a king on 45k. He's obviously paying more than the minimum 400$ payment at this point, at least by this paragraph:
Quote
. I live with my parents. I don't have a car. I don't go out to socialize. I don't date. I don't buy new clothes. I don't buy electronics. I don't buy much of anything. I spend my free time working other jobs to put more money toward my debt.
His hair is on fire, and he knows it! 200,000$ is a really, really big fire, though. It sounds to me like he's doing exactly what he needs to to take care of his Debt Emergency. I can't blame him for being bummed out about it. With a slightly-improved attitude (which, let's face it, could totally just be the tone of the article-- an editorial decision) this fellow would fit in just fine, here.

To be honest, I'm wondering if I am reading the same link as the OP--but he posted it, so I must be.

ArcticaMT6

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Re: law school graduate whiner
« Reply #8 on: December 17, 2013, 03:33:00 PM »
Good to hear this homie doesn't think 45k is a "respectable" salary or a "living wage". ♫ This is a very sad story ♫

Depends on the area of Virginia he lives in. $45k goes a lot further in the rural areas than it does in the Coastal or DC metro regions.

senecando

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Re: law school graduate whiner
« Reply #9 on: December 17, 2013, 03:38:24 PM »
I agree with MgoSam.
 Practically the first quote is:
Quote
"At the end of the day, it's my own fault for being a sucker and I learned an extremely hard lesson."
He takes responsibility.

...

I agree for the most part. I think higher education and particularly post-graduate education is sleazy.

But it's totally fucked to go through all this and to still talk as if 45k is "unrespectable"--subtext: it is not fitting for someone like him. It's the median personal income in the US, or close. A full fifty percent of people--including many people 20 years older than him--are making less than he is. I lived in Georgetown, D.C. for about what he has after taxes and loans. People I worked with commuted in and were making less. It's hard to pay down loans. It sucks to have to live with your parents, but don't put yourself in the group of people making unlivable wages.
« Last Edit: December 17, 2013, 03:43:30 PM by senecando »

Undecided

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Re: law school graduate whiner
« Reply #10 on: December 18, 2013, 09:04:08 AM »
I agree with MgoSam.
 Practically the first quote is:
Quote
"At the end of the day, it's my own fault for being a sucker and I learned an extremely hard lesson."
He takes responsibility.

...

I agree for the most part. I think higher education and particularly post-graduate education is sleazy.

But it's totally fucked to go through all this and to still talk as if 45k is "unrespectable"--subtext: it is not fitting for someone like him. It's the median personal income in the US, or close. A full fifty percent of people--including many people 20 years older than him--are making less than he is. I lived in Georgetown, D.C. for about what he has after taxes and loans. People I worked with commuted in and were making less. It's hard to pay down loans. It sucks to have to live with your parents, but don't put yourself in the group of people making unlivable wages.

If the majority of his peers are making nearly four times that and he doesn't think it's respectable in his circumstances, I don't see the basis for being indignant about that view. Livability, though is a very different standard.

Edit to add: So much of his analysis of the profession reflects a narrow perspective even after graduation and some years of practice, but I'm glad to see it published, because I think he reflects the group that falls for especially unrealistic dreams about being a lawyer. There is no meaningfully cohesive "supply of JDs"---although there were a couple of panic years, even now it is difficult for the most selective firms to find enough candidates to be really happy about, at least, because that isn't driven by the number of JDs, it is driven by the number of JDs with first-class minds and a package of other qualities, including dedication. Not being such a person won't be changed by adding a JD.
« Last Edit: December 18, 2013, 09:16:50 AM by Undecided »