Author Topic: Large workplace, small town...and 2 bikes in the bike rack.  (Read 9996 times)

The Fake Cheap

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 300
  • Location: Canada
    • The Fake Cheap

I work in a small town which is probably about 8 KM from one end to the other.  I also work in a large office building in this small town, with about 400 employees.  I would guess maybe half of the employees live in this small town.  This leaves about 200 people who would have an amazingly short and pleasant bike trip to work.  How many bikes are usually in the bike rack?  Two.  Sometimes one, I haven't seen any bikes a few times and I've seen three there once.  I will also add that this seems to be a bike friendly place, flat and not any high speed narrow roads to bike on. 

I wish I cold say that my bike is one that is often found in the rack, but I live out of town and have a sizable commute.


gooki

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2359
  • Location: NZ
Re: Large workplace, small town...and 2 bikes in the bike rack.
« Reply #1 on: June 25, 2015, 02:26:32 AM »
Maybe they all walk to work.

GuitarStv

  • Senior Mustachian
  • ********
  • Posts: 13067
  • Age: 37
  • Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Re: Large workplace, small town...and 2 bikes in the bike rack.
« Reply #2 on: June 25, 2015, 07:06:51 AM »
Maybe many of them use the excuse that they live out of town and have a sizable commute.

Sam E

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 173
Re: Large workplace, small town...and 2 bikes in the bike rack.
« Reply #3 on: June 25, 2015, 07:34:14 AM »
When I had a 2 mile walk to work everyone thought I was crazy and offered me rides on a daily basis. When I had a 5 mile bike commute to work my coworkers acted like I was running a marathon to work. A lot of people are just afraid of any physical exertion, really.

Another part of it is that some people have convinced themselves that going from place to place in anything other than a car for any distance is a death sentence. They're terrified of life outside some kind of safety box (buildings, cars...). One time I fell off my bike and hurt my collar bone (not even a car accident, I just fell off my bike for dumb, self-imposed, highly avoidable reasons, and explained it as such) and I had to spend a couple days off work. When I got back in, a few people asked, "Are you still going to bike to work now?" One particular coworker said, "I hope you learned your lesson about biking! Now you see how dangerous it is!" That coworker ended up getting into a car accident a couple months later and I really had to resist the urge to say, "I hope you learned your lesson about driving!"

It's just a weird bias people have. I hear about fatal car accidents almost weekly, but no one bats an eye; it's reported as a traffic inconvenience in the morning ("Be sure to avoid this road today."). I hear about one cyclist per year being killed (sometimes less) and people think it's the end of the world! How could anyone ever ride a bike? It's clearly so unsafe! They tell me about it for weeks as if it's going to scare me back into my car. They genuinely think they're trying to help me avoid my fatal decision to ride a bike.

I'm a red panda

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 7957
  • Location: United States
Re: Large workplace, small town...and 2 bikes in the bike rack.
« Reply #4 on: June 25, 2015, 07:42:34 AM »
Why not suggest to HR that as a health initiative they sponsor a bike to work week.

MgoSam

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3643
  • Location: Minnesota
Re: Large workplace, small town...and 2 bikes in the bike rack.
« Reply #5 on: June 25, 2015, 10:49:10 AM »

It's just a weird bias people have. I hear about fatal car accidents almost weekly, but no one bats an eye; it's reported as a traffic inconvenience in the morning ("Be sure to avoid this road today.").


That's because fatal car accidents are part of 'the plan.' Sorry, reminded me of the little speech that the Joker gave, "You know what I've noticed? Nobody panics when things go "according to plan." Even if the plan is horrifying! If, tomorrow, I tell the press that, like, a gang banger will get shot, or a truckload of soldiers will be blown up, nobody panics, because it's all "part of the plan". But when I say that one little old mayor will die, well then everyone loses their minds! "

Chris22

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3210
  • Location: Chicago NW Suburbs
Re: Large workplace, small town...and 2 bikes in the bike rack.
« Reply #6 on: June 25, 2015, 12:16:24 PM »
Do people actually not ride because of safety?  That might be the stated reason, but I think it's more due to (dis)comfort.  It's hot, you get sweaty, etc.  And personally, I work unpredictable hours sometimes and wouldn't want to work to 7 or 8 and then have to ride home in the dark, or not be able to run and errand or something.

Maybe weak, but I don't care.  And most others don't either.  The half-gallon of gas I spend every day driving is worth it to me. 

slugline

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1159
  • Location: Houston, TX USA
Re: Large workplace, small town...and 2 bikes in the bike rack.
« Reply #7 on: June 25, 2015, 12:26:19 PM »
Do people actually not ride because of safety?  That might be the stated reason, but I think it's more due to (dis)comfort.

Oh, I've thought about this for a while. There are some really nice weather days for cycling in spring/fall. Unfortunately, no matter how I map it out any commuting route I take would require me to ride alongside rush hour car traffic moving 50+ mph. So to answer your question -- yes, because of safety.

My best chance of fulfilling my cycle-to-work fantasy will be to eventually find a job sited with better bike accessibility.

Le Poisson

  • Senior Mustachian
  • ********
  • Posts: 11691
Re: Large workplace, small town...and 2 bikes in the bike rack.
« Reply #8 on: June 25, 2015, 01:12:25 PM »
Hey Fake Cheap - which province are you in? I might be able to point you to some incentives that would make it more appealing in the workplace, or at least a toolkit for employers.

For the comments about safety - vulnerable road users (cyclists, pedestrians, and motorcycles - are at a greater injury risk than drivers on our roads. Having said that, it is hardly a death sentence to ride to work.

Taking data from the ORSAR report (Ontario Road Safety Annual Report) we see that based on preliminary 2013 reporting, in Ontario there were:

91 Pedestrian fatalities (one person every four days), 4370 total collisions (12 people hit every day)
17 Bicycle fatalities (one person every 21 days), 2477 total collisions (7 people hit per day)
47 Motorcycle fatalities (one person every eight days), 1725 total collisions (5 people hit per day)
316 Motor vehicle driver or passenger fatalities (one person per day), 51090 total collisions (140 people involved each day)

Source: http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/english/publications/pdfs/preliminary-2013-orsar-selected-statistics.pdf - table 2.1

The argument that comes easiest to this is but what proportion of cyclists is 2477 total collisions - and for that we don't have a lot of data. The sticking point is that almost daily someone dies in a car, while monthly someone dies on a bike... likely due to a car.


« Last Edit: June 25, 2015, 01:36:35 PM by Prospector »

Jack

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 4734
  • Location: Atlanta, GA
Re: Large workplace, small town...and 2 bikes in the bike rack.
« Reply #9 on: June 25, 2015, 01:21:49 PM »
One time I fell off my bike and hurt my collar bone (not even a car accident, I just fell off my bike for dumb, self-imposed, highly avoidable reasons, and explained it as such) and I had to spend a couple days off work. When I got back in, a few people asked, "Are you still going to bike to work now?" One particular coworker said, "I hope you learned your lesson about biking! Now you see how dangerous it is!" That coworker ended up getting into a car accident a couple months later and I really had to resist the urge to say, "I hope you learned your lesson about driving!"

Why would you ever want to resist such an awesome urge?!

GuitarStv

  • Senior Mustachian
  • ********
  • Posts: 13067
  • Age: 37
  • Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Re: Large workplace, small town...and 2 bikes in the bike rack.
« Reply #10 on: June 25, 2015, 01:26:40 PM »
Because anti-cyclists are like zombies.  Individually they can be easily dispatched, but make enough noise and they swarm around you becoming difficult to escape . . . delivering folksy wisdom about dangers of exercise, how you should ride on the sidewalk for safety, and how government spending on cycling infrastructure is a tremendous waste that slows down traffic.

Sam E

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 173
Re: Large workplace, small town...and 2 bikes in the bike rack.
« Reply #11 on: June 25, 2015, 01:41:40 PM »
no matter how I map it out any commuting route I take would require me to ride alongside rush hour car traffic moving 50+ mph. So to answer your question -- yes, because of safety.

This is intimidating at first, but it's really not all that bad. My entire commute is a 55mph road. I think it's also important to take into account the fact that you'd probably leave earlier if you biked. When I drive, there's a lot more traffic than when I bike. Chiefly because driving means I leave at 7:30am, during rush hour and biking means I leave at 6:40am, just BEFORE rush hour. It makes a huge difference in the amount of traffic I encounter. I'm more than halfway to work before the morning rush is out the door, so I'm far enough ahead of them that I make it to work before I have to deal with any of that.

Going home is a bit of a different story, of course.

MsPeacock

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1505
  • Location: High COL
Re: Large workplace, small town...and 2 bikes in the bike rack.
« Reply #12 on: June 25, 2015, 01:52:53 PM »
Do people actually not ride because of safety? 

Most of the year I would have to ride to work in the dark and home in the dark (I work 10 hour shifts). The majority of roads have no shoulder and have 4-5 lanes of traffic (or more) going 50 miles per hour. Even if the distance, lack of shower, and need to transport my kids were not an issue, I would not ride my bike to work due to safety.

Even my little spins around my area are done w/ a great deal of caution and some sidewalk riding on the extremely busy roads (there are basically no pedestrians) because the streets are not safe for cyclists.

So yeah, there are people who really don't ride bikes to work for safety reasons.

Le Poisson

  • Senior Mustachian
  • ********
  • Posts: 11691
Re: Large workplace, small town...and 2 bikes in the bike rack.
« Reply #13 on: June 25, 2015, 02:17:16 PM »
no matter how I map it out any commuting route I take would require me to ride alongside rush hour car traffic moving 50+ mph. So to answer your question -- yes, because of safety.

This is intimidating at first, but it's really not all that bad. My entire commute is a 55mph road. I think it's also important to take into account the fact that you'd probably leave earlier if you biked. When I drive, there's a lot more traffic than when I bike. Chiefly because driving means I leave at 7:30am, during rush hour and biking means I leave at 6:40am, just BEFORE rush hour. It makes a huge difference in the amount of traffic I encounter. I'm more than halfway to work before the morning rush is out the door, so I'm far enough ahead of them that I make it to work before I have to deal with any of that.

Going home is a bit of a different story, of course.

When I first started riding, I was nervous about this too - especially since I am pulling along a 4 yr old in a kid trailer. I will admit that about 1/4 mile of my trip is still done on the sidewalk, but here is the cool part, the longer you ride, the more parallel routes you discover. When you are zipping along at 55 mph, you aren't aware of the little alley beside the house with the peacock statue, and then one day on your ride home you decide to see whats back there and you find a ravine with a dirt track.

Another day you find a park you didn't know about, or a sidestreet, or what have you, and then a month later your route has transformed into a pleasant ride through the countryside and you completely forget about the 55 mph road.

When I was first thinking of biking, SWMBO forbade it since we would be on a highway for most of the ride, so I got on Google and mapped a route that mostly went through neighbourhoods. It is entirely different from what I would normally drive.

After a month of riding that route, we found some other streets that avoid (or take advantage of) hills, and there is a park we now ride through on the way to school.

Coming home (sans kids - momma gets them) I go on an entirely different route which involves way busier roads close to the office, but then goes through a pair of parks that border the highway with a nice ped connection. Finding the shortcuts and pathways takes a while, but it really pays off - both in terms of enjoyment and speed. There are no stop signs in a park.

Jeremy E.

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1946
  • Location: Lewiston, ID

Cheryl

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 25
Re: Large workplace, small town...and 2 bikes in the bike rack.
« Reply #15 on: June 25, 2015, 08:02:14 PM »
no matter how I map it out any commuting route I take would require me to ride alongside rush hour car traffic moving 50+ mph. So to answer your question -- yes, because of safety.

This is intimidating at first, but it's really not all that bad. My entire commute is a 55mph road. I think it's also important to take into account the fact that you'd probably leave earlier if you biked. When I drive, there's a lot more traffic than when I bike. Chiefly because driving means I leave at 7:30am, during rush hour and biking means I leave at 6:40am, just BEFORE rush hour. It makes a huge difference in the amount of traffic I encounter. I'm more than halfway to work before the morning rush is out the door, so I'm far enough ahead of them that I make it to work before I have to deal with any of that.

Going home is a bit of a different story, of course.

When I first started riding, I was nervous about this too - especially since I am pulling along a 4 yr old in a kid trailer. I will admit that about 1/4 mile of my trip is still done on the sidewalk, but here is the cool part, the longer you ride, the more parallel routes you discover. When you are zipping along at 55 mph, you aren't aware of the little alley beside the house with the peacock statue, and then one day on your ride home you decide to see whats back there and you find a ravine with a dirt track.

Another day you find a park you didn't know about, or a sidestreet, or what have you, and then a month later your route has transformed into a pleasant ride through the countryside and you completely forget about the 55 mph road.

When I was first thinking of biking, SWMBO forbade it since we would be on a highway for most of the ride, so I got on Google and mapped a route that mostly went through neighbourhoods. It is entirely different from what I would normally drive.

After a month of riding that route, we found some other streets that avoid (or take advantage of) hills, and there is a park we now ride through on the way to school.

Coming home (sans kids - momma gets them) I go on an entirely different route which involves way busier roads close to the office, but then goes through a pair of parks that border the highway with a nice ped connection. Finding the shortcuts and pathways takes a while, but it really pays off - both in terms of enjoyment and speed. There are no stop signs in a park.

I just wanted to second this.  I bike everywhere.  At first I was concerned about Preston, a major, high speed street that's pretty unavoidable... but now I think nothing of it!  Preston's fine, I'll take it all day!  Big street means more lanes for cars to go around me in, and fewer lights for me to get stuck at (because small intersections don't always pick up bikes and will just stay red forever and ever until I get sick of it or a car shows up to trigger the sensor).  No, once you get over the mental-block, biking on large roads isn't scary at all!  Just TAKE THE LANE, do not get in the gutter!

You will find yourself planning routes according to intersection and necessary left turns, however. : D

dividend

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 44
Re: Large workplace, small town...and 2 bikes in the bike rack.
« Reply #16 on: June 26, 2015, 09:14:27 AM »
I am always amazed at how few other bikes I see anywhere.  Last night we went to Shakespeare in the Park, and we saw no other bikes.  We biked over from our house less than 3 miles away, and were able to avoid hassling with crowded street parking for block in every direction.  Sometimes we bike into downtown (about 4 miles), and the bike racks are completely empty and the $10 parking garages are full. 

I don't think people realize how bike-able this city is.  We normally always bike to the monthly "First Friday" art crawl.  Last month we took my mom so we drove, and between congested traffic around the event, and how long it took to find a parking spot withing 6 blocks, it was enough hassle for us to never want to drive there again.

The Fake Cheap

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 300
  • Location: Canada
    • The Fake Cheap
Re: Large workplace, small town...and 2 bikes in the bike rack.
« Reply #17 on: June 26, 2015, 06:18:14 PM »
Hey Fake Cheap - which province are you in? I might be able to point you to some incentives that would make it more appealing in the workplace, or at least a toolkit for employers.

For the comments about safety - vulnerable road users (cyclists, pedestrians, and motorcycles - are at a greater injury risk than drivers on our roads. Having said that, it is hardly a death sentence to ride to work.

Taking data from the ORSAR report (Ontario Road Safety Annual Report) we see that based on preliminary 2013 reporting, in Ontario there were:

91 Pedestrian fatalities (one person every four days), 4370 total collisions (12 people hit every day)
17 Bicycle fatalities (one person every 21 days), 2477 total collisions (7 people hit per day)
47 Motorcycle fatalities (one person every eight days), 1725 total collisions (5 people hit per day)
316 Motor vehicle driver or passenger fatalities (one person per day), 51090 total collisions (140 people involved each day)

Source: http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/english/publications/pdfs/preliminary-2013-orsar-selected-statistics.pdf - table 2.1

The argument that comes easiest to this is but what proportion of cyclists is 2477 total collisions - and for that we don't have a lot of data. The sticking point is that almost daily someone dies in a car, while monthly someone dies on a bike... likely due to a car.

I'm in New Brunswick.  Any data you could dig up would be great, and I will certainly pass it along to someone who might be able to make something happen.

The Fake Cheap

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 300
  • Location: Canada
    • The Fake Cheap
Re: Large workplace, small town...and 2 bikes in the bike rack.
« Reply #18 on: June 26, 2015, 06:21:50 PM »
Maybe they all walk to work.

I totally forgot about the walkers!   I don't think there are that many though.  On my drive in, I don't see many of my coworkers walking along their way to work, and most people I encounter at the door are also walking from the parking lot. 

music lover

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 653
Re: Large workplace, small town...and 2 bikes in the bike rack.
« Reply #19 on: June 26, 2015, 07:15:58 PM »
Do people actually not ride because of safety?  That might be the stated reason, but I think it's more due to (dis)comfort.  It's hot, you get sweaty, etc.  And personally, I work unpredictable hours sometimes and wouldn't want to work to 7 or 8 and then have to ride home in the dark, or not be able to run and errand or something.

Maybe weak, but I don't care.  And most others don't either.  The half-gallon of gas I spend every day driving is worth it to me.

I won't bike, partly due to safety reasons. Most of my commute is on a crowded 80kph (50mph) highway (no sidewalks) where I see people texting/talking on their phone and even passing on the shoulder on a regular basis. The lanes are narrow and the shoulder is gravel...only a fool would ride a bike on that road, and there is no convenient parallel route.

Another factor is that the comfort window for cycling where I live is very short...some pleasant weather in spring and fall, but brutally cold winters that reach -35C and hot humid summers that reach +35C. 8 months of the year you either freeze or sweat. In addition, I pay for parking and would still have to do so if I rode unless I gave up my parking spot. But, if I did that and want it back in winter, I will be 200th on a waiting list and out of luck.

And, there is the "what's my time worth" factor...$2 of gas a day and an 8 minute drive each way is worth it to me to save 30 minutes of riding/cool down/changing clothes, etc. each way.

capital

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 451
Re: Large workplace, small town...and 2 bikes in the bike rack.
« Reply #20 on: July 04, 2015, 02:36:43 PM »
Some 55mph roads are very different from other 55mph roads. Some have shoulders and moderate traffic and drivers who drive near the speed limit and have enough patience to pass safely and relatively few turnoffs. Some don't, and they're scary as hell. And there are places, generally newer 'cities' in the Sunbelt, where there just aren't any alternative routes.  Even those cities have areas where bike commuting is possible, but you usually need to move there with a plan to bike commute in mind.

When I lived and worked in San Diego, there were no practical alternatives to biking on I-5, which was a legal bike route in the segment I took. I often ran into an older guy who commuted along a similar route, and he had been rear ended by a drunk driver while commuting home one night, though he fortunately survived and recoverd from his injuries. There is absolutely nothing you can do to avoid that, and the probabilities start to add up when you spend an hour or more a day cycling on wide fast roads, especially with no shoulders. A hospital executive just got killed in San Diego on such a road:
http://bikesd.org/2015/06/cfo-at-rady-hospital-killed-while-riding-his-bicycle-his-death-was-preventable/

Now my bike commute is in Manhattan, which is much safer.
« Last Edit: July 04, 2015, 02:42:18 PM by ehgee »

MoonShadow

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 2542
  • Location: Louisville, Ky.
Re: Large workplace, small town...and 2 bikes in the bike rack.
« Reply #21 on: July 06, 2015, 01:17:45 PM »

I wish I cold say that my bike is one that is often found in the rack, but I live out of town and have a sizable commute.

So, when are you moving?

foobar

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 731
Re: Large workplace, small town...and 2 bikes in the bike rack.
« Reply #22 on: July 06, 2015, 01:59:15 PM »
http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2013/06/13/bicycling-the-safest-form-of-transportation/

That is a BS arguement. Nobody says I am going to drive 1 hour. The go I need to travel 10 miles. And if you are willing to move closer to bike, you can move closer to drive.  Now a 6x increase in fatality sounds like a lot but remember we are taking small numbers to start with (i.e. car travel is very safe these days). And yes by futzing around with behavior (not driving after 11pm, only riding on a bike path or bike lane road), you can lower all these risk factors.

As far as health benefits, those are a bit BS also.  You need a certain amount of exercise (call it 1-2 hours per day) and getting more really doesn't help.  If spending 2 hours on a bike means I don't get my 45 min run and 45 mins of lifting, personally I think my life is diminished. Now if I was a biker instead of a runner (and no running doesn't cause joint problems if you know how to run. I will say that probably only 10% of the people I see out there should be running. The others have horrible form with feet collapsing and knee twisting that is painful just to watch), I would feel differently about it. Of course there is no reason why you can't run run to work. I used to like alternating approach (run to work, drive home, switch the next day) but doing doubles was also doable easy (5 in the morning, take the long way home to get up to 10 versus just doing 10 ). The big downside to running was you need to leave clothes at work.  Again not really a big deal.

Jeremy E.

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1946
  • Location: Lewiston, ID
Re: Large workplace, small town...and 2 bikes in the bike rack.
« Reply #23 on: July 06, 2015, 04:42:23 PM »
http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2013/06/13/bicycling-the-safest-form-of-transportation/

That is a BS arguement. Nobody says I am going to drive 1 hour. The go I need to travel 10 miles. And if you are willing to move closer to bike, you can move closer to drive.  Now a 6x increase in fatality sounds like a lot but remember we are taking small numbers to start with (i.e. car travel is very safe these days). And yes by futzing around with behavior (not driving after 11pm, only riding on a bike path or bike lane road), you can lower all these risk factors.

As far as health benefits, those are a bit BS also.  You need a certain amount of exercise (call it 1-2 hours per day) and getting more really doesn't help.  If spending 2 hours on a bike means I don't get my 45 min run and 45 mins of lifting, personally I think my life is diminished. Now if I was a biker instead of a runner (and no running doesn't cause joint problems if you know how to run. I will say that probably only 10% of the people I see out there should be running. The others have horrible form with feet collapsing and knee twisting that is painful just to watch), I would feel differently about it. Of course there is no reason why you can't run run to work. I used to like alternating approach (run to work, drive home, switch the next day) but doing doubles was also doable easy (5 in the morning, take the long way home to get up to 10 versus just doing 10 ). The big downside to running was you need to leave clothes at work.  Again not really a big deal.
It is not a BS argument, people NEED one hour of exercise per day to be "healthy", but not "OPTIMALLY healthy". Three hours of cardio is better for you than one hour of cardio, A LOT of people get zero hours of cardio everyday. A man that exercises for 1-3 hours a day has a higher life expectancy than someone who exercises less than 1 hour per day. The benefit from the exercise outweighs the risk of the potential bike accident. Although the title of the blog post is "safest transportation", really he is only comparing commuting by car vs commuting by bike. He did not compare walking or running, so although they may be safer, that is a moot point for this discussion. He isn't saying biking is safer for you specifically, but that it's safer for the average American.

foobar

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 731
Re: Large workplace, small town...and 2 bikes in the bike rack.
« Reply #24 on: July 07, 2015, 07:48:47 AM »

It is not a BS argument, people NEED one hour of exercise per day to be "healthy", but not "OPTIMALLY healthy". Three hours of cardio is better for you than one hour of cardio, A LOT of people get zero hours of cardio everyday. A man that exercises for 1-3 hours a day has a higher life expectancy than someone who exercises less than 1 hour per day. The benefit from the exercise outweighs the risk of the potential bike accident. Although the title of the blog post is "safest transportation", really he is only comparing commuting by car vs commuting by bike. He did not compare walking or running, so although they may be safer, that is a moot point for this discussion. He isn't saying biking is safer for you specifically, but that it's safer for the average American.


Only if you are getting a health benefit from 3 hours of biking and that health benefit if more than what you would have from the 2 hours+ you freed up by driving. 3 hours of biking on top of my 1 hour of running and 45 mins of strength work has little health benefit. Your options are in life are a lot more than bike 3 hours or sit on a couch. Now scientific studies are a bit tough in this area but there is a lot of evidence that for health (not weight maintence) the key is getting 60 mins of strenght work 3x/week and then getting another 4-7 hours of cardio. Strength work is more than going to the gym. And yeah you can always up cardio but in general you start dropping intensity for duration.  And as in most things in life the diminishing returns kicks in pretty soon. 45 mins a day (strength 3x cardio 4x) probably gets you 95% of the health benefits. And yeah most people are not even close to that.

music lover

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 653
Re: Large workplace, small town...and 2 bikes in the bike rack.
« Reply #25 on: July 07, 2015, 06:40:38 PM »
It is not a BS argument, people NEED one hour of exercise per day to be "healthy", but not "OPTIMALLY healthy". Three hours of cardio is better for you than one hour of cardio, A LOT of people get zero hours of cardio everyday. A man that exercises for 1-3 hours a day has a higher life expectancy than someone who exercises less than 1 hour per day.

I disagree. 3 hours of cardio every day is way, way too much...even for my friend who is an ultra runner. He only runs 3 hours once a week (1 hour on other days) most of the time yet consistently places top 5 in ultras (50 - 100 mile races). When training for a race he may run 6 hours, but then takes a couple days off.

I believe in quality over quantity. This is what I do:

Cardio:

5 minutes slow running to warm up, 20-30 minutes alternating medium to hard running (or biking) at varying speeds or intensity, 5 minutes to cool down.

Lifting:

Day 1: Upper body day. 8 sets of compound pushes (after warmup), and 8 sets of compound pulls with medium to heavy weight (6 - 10 reps). Total time - 30-35 minutes. Compound pushes are either bench press or incline dumbbell presses. Compound pulls are either weighted chin-ups or rows. I don't waste time on single muscle exercises such as curls or triceps extensions.

Day 2: Lower body, same thing 8 sets of squats, lunges, etc., and 8 sets of deadlifts, good mornings, etc. Total time 30 minutes. Again, I don't do any single muscle exercises like leg extensions or calf raises.

I alternate cardio one day, lifting the next day, then cardio, then lifting, and so on. I miss the occasional day, but average 5 - 6 workouts a week. My results:  At age 53, at 5'7" and 170 pounds, exercising about 30-40 minutes each time, I can run a 5k in 21 minutes, bench press 260, squat 380, and deadlift 410. I can also do 30 consecutive chin-ups.
« Last Edit: July 07, 2015, 06:42:48 PM by music lover »

Jeremy E.

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1946
  • Location: Lewiston, ID
Re: Large workplace, small town...and 2 bikes in the bike rack.
« Reply #26 on: July 07, 2015, 07:06:05 PM »
It is not a BS argument, people NEED one hour of exercise per day to be "healthy", but not "OPTIMALLY healthy". Three hours of cardio is better for you than one hour of cardio, A LOT of people get zero hours of cardio everyday. A man that exercises for 1-3 hours a day has a higher life expectancy than someone who exercises less than 1 hour per day.

I disagree. 3 hours of cardio every day is way, way too much...even for my friend who is an ultra runner. He only runs 3 hours once a week (1 hour on other days) most of the time yet consistently places top 5 in ultras (50 - 100 mile races). When training for a race he may run 6 hours, but then takes a couple days off.

I believe in quality over quantity. This is what I do:

Cardio:

5 minutes slow running to warm up, 20-30 minutes alternating medium to hard running (or biking) at varying speeds or intensity, 5 minutes to cool down.

Lifting:

Day 1: Upper body day. 8 sets of compound pushes (after warmup), and 8 sets of compound pulls with medium to heavy weight (6 - 10 reps). Total time - 30-35 minutes. Compound pushes are either bench press or incline dumbbell presses. Compound pulls are either weighted chin-ups or rows. I don't waste time on single muscle exercises such as curls or triceps extensions.

Day 2: Lower body, same thing 8 sets of squats, lunges, etc., and 8 sets of deadlifts, good mornings, etc. Total time 30 minutes. Again, I don't do any single muscle exercises like leg extensions or calf raises.

I alternate cardio one day, lifting the next day, then cardio, then lifting, and so on. I miss the occasional day, but average 5 - 6 workouts a week. My results:  At age 53, at 5'7" and 170 pounds, exercising about 30-40 minutes each time, I can run a 5k in 21 minutes, bench press 260, squat 380, and deadlift 410. I can also do 30 consecutive chin-ups.
The comparison is 3 hours of moderate commute cardio vs 1 hour of moderate commute cardio, 3 hours is better for you. This is not a debate about quality vs quantity, I'm aware that doing HIIT is better cardio that light biking, however that is a moot point in this debate. Also, I don't believe you can warmup and then do 8 sets of squats, lunges, deadlifts and good mornings in 30 minutes at an intensity level that allows you to maintain a 380lb squat and 410lb deadlift, that would take 45+ minutes depending on the number of reps per set(probably a lot closer to 90 minutes).
« Last Edit: July 07, 2015, 07:10:30 PM by Jeremy E. »

music lover

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 653
Re: Large workplace, small town...and 2 bikes in the bike rack.
« Reply #27 on: July 07, 2015, 07:38:05 PM »
It is not a BS argument, people NEED one hour of exercise per day to be "healthy", but not "OPTIMALLY healthy". Three hours of cardio is better for you than one hour of cardio, A LOT of people get zero hours of cardio everyday. A man that exercises for 1-3 hours a day has a higher life expectancy than someone who exercises less than 1 hour per day.

I disagree. 3 hours of cardio every day is way, way too much...even for my friend who is an ultra runner. He only runs 3 hours once a week (1 hour on other days) most of the time yet consistently places top 5 in ultras (50 - 100 mile races). When training for a race he may run 6 hours, but then takes a couple days off.

I believe in quality over quantity. This is what I do:

Cardio:

5 minutes slow running to warm up, 20-30 minutes alternating medium to hard running (or biking) at varying speeds or intensity, 5 minutes to cool down.

Lifting:

Day 1: Upper body day. 8 sets of compound pushes (after warmup), and 8 sets of compound pulls with medium to heavy weight (6 - 10 reps). Total time - 30-35 minutes. Compound pushes are either bench press or incline dumbbell presses. Compound pulls are either weighted chin-ups or rows. I don't waste time on single muscle exercises such as curls or triceps extensions.

Day 2: Lower body, same thing 8 sets of squats, lunges, etc., and 8 sets of deadlifts, good mornings, etc. Total time 30 minutes. Again, I don't do any single muscle exercises like leg extensions or calf raises.

I alternate cardio one day, lifting the next day, then cardio, then lifting, and so on. I miss the occasional day, but average 5 - 6 workouts a week. My results:  At age 53, at 5'7" and 170 pounds, exercising about 30-40 minutes each time, I can run a 5k in 21 minutes, bench press 260, squat 380, and deadlift 410. I can also do 30 consecutive chin-ups.
The comparison is 3 hours of moderate commute cardio vs 1 hour of moderate commute cardio, 3 hours is better for you. This is not a debate about quality vs quantity, I'm aware that doing HIIT is better cardio that light biking, however that is a moot point in this debate. Also, I don't believe you can warmup and then do 8 sets of squats, lunges, deadlifts and good mornings in 30 minutes at an intensity level that allows you to maintain a 380lb squat and 410lb deadlift, that would take 45+ minutes depending on the number of reps per set(probably a lot closer to 90 minutes).

You said:
Quote
It is not a BS argument, people NEED one hour of exercise per day to be "healthy", but not "OPTIMALLY healthy". Three hours of cardio is better for you than one hour of cardio, A LOT of people get zero hours of cardio everyday. A man that exercises for 1-3 hours a day has a higher life expectancy than someone who exercises less than 1 hour per day."

Look back at what you wrote. Most experts would also agree that 3 hours of cardio is not necessary. Look it up if you still don't agree.

As to the squats, lunges, deadlifts, and good mornings...I do squats OR lunges, not both; and deadlifts OR good mornings, not both. 4-5 warm-ups sets, 8 sets of squats, 8 sets of deadlifts. Done in 30 minutes. The next lower body workout would be 8 sets of lunges and 8 sets of good mornings. Again, done in 30 minutes.

Jeremy E.

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1946
  • Location: Lewiston, ID
Re: Large workplace, small town...and 2 bikes in the bike rack.
« Reply #28 on: July 08, 2015, 07:41:22 AM »
Quote
You said:
Quote
It is not a BS argument, people NEED one hour of exercise per day to be "healthy", but not "OPTIMALLY healthy". Three hours of cardio is better for you than one hour of cardio, A LOT of people get zero hours of cardio everyday. A man that exercises for 1-3 hours a day has a higher life expectancy than someone who exercises less than 1 hour per day."

Look back at what you wrote. Most experts would also agree that 3 hours of cardio is not necessary. Look it up if you still don't agree.

As to the squats, lunges, deadlifts, and good mornings...I do squats OR lunges, not both; and deadlifts OR good mornings, not both. 4-5 warm-ups sets, 8 sets of squats, 8 sets of deadlifts. Done in 30 minutes. The next lower body workout would be 8 sets of lunges and 8 sets of good mornings. Again, done in 30 minutes.
Most experts would also agree that 3 hours of cardio is better for you than 1 hour of cardio.

wenchsenior

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2037
Re: Large workplace, small town...and 2 bikes in the bike rack.
« Reply #29 on: July 08, 2015, 08:24:23 AM »
Do people actually not ride because of safety?  That might be the stated reason, but I think it's more due to (dis)comfort.  It's hot, you get sweaty, etc.  And personally, I work unpredictable hours sometimes and wouldn't want to work to 7 or 8 and then have to ride home in the dark, or not be able to run and errand or something.

Maybe weak, but I don't care.  And most others don't either.  The half-gallon of gas I spend every day driving is worth it to me.

I won't bike, partly due to safety reasons. Most of my commute is on a crowded 80kph (50mph) highway (no sidewalks) where I see people texting/talking on their phone and even passing on the shoulder on a regular basis. The lanes are narrow and the shoulder is gravel...only a fool would ride a bike on that road, and there is no convenient parallel route.

Another factor is that the comfort window for cycling where I live is very short...some pleasant weather in spring and fall, but brutally cold winters that reach -35C and hot humid summers that reach +35C. 8 months of the year you either freeze or sweat. In addition, I pay for parking and would still have to do so if I rode unless I gave up my parking spot. But, if I did that and want it back in winter, I will be 200th on a waiting list and out of luck.

And, there is the "what's my time worth" factor...$2 of gas a day and an 8 minute drive each way is worth it to me to save 30 minutes of riding/cool down/changing clothes, etc. each way.

I realize this is an extreme pro-biking community and hypothetically I agree that bikes are great. I biked all over when I lived in the country as a kid.

However, I am not personally comfortable biking in cities AT ALL, and I'm not ever going to be. I have many friends and acquaintances who are into biking (some even race) and have done it for years. Several have been in bad accidents where they were struck by cars...one had multiple surgeries and lost partial use of an arm. Another (a student employee of my husband) was struck and killed. One had a tree fall on him while he was biking, thankfully, he ended up ok...though that wasn't due to vehicle collision, just crap luck.

I realize these are anecdotal incidents and statistically bikes are probably perfectly safe, but the combo of speed achievable with lack of structural protection just puts me totally off biking. It has nothing to do with physical exertion. I also am uneasy about mixing bikes and pedestrians on the same route, again because of the speed differential. I was struck by a bike while walking and blew out my ACL, requiring surgery.

So, too many bad personal experiences...seems like the universe is telling me to avoid bikes at all costs. No biking for me unless the city has good infrastructure for it that keeps bikes in their own lanes, separate from pedestrians and cars.


foobar

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 731
Re: Large workplace, small town...and 2 bikes in the bike rack.
« Reply #30 on: July 08, 2015, 11:46:36 AM »

Most experts would also agree that 3 hours of cardio is better for you than 1 hour of cardio.

I have never heard a single expert say that:) Feel free to post any studies you have. And no some random guy on the internet saying something doesn't count as an expert.:)

 Every study I have seen suggests 30-60 mins of moderate intensity (running, biking fast enough that your HR gets up)  4-5x/week being optimial for health cardio health and 2/3 x sessions/week of 45 mins or so of weight lifting for helping bone density and prevention of muscle loss. If you go the low intensity route (i.e. house cleaning, biking slowly), you need more time BUT even with more time you never get the benefits of going at a moderate intensity.

GuitarStv

  • Senior Mustachian
  • ********
  • Posts: 13067
  • Age: 37
  • Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Re: Large workplace, small town...and 2 bikes in the bike rack.
« Reply #31 on: July 08, 2015, 12:02:51 PM »
Do people actually not ride because of safety?  That might be the stated reason, but I think it's more due to (dis)comfort.  It's hot, you get sweaty, etc.  And personally, I work unpredictable hours sometimes and wouldn't want to work to 7 or 8 and then have to ride home in the dark, or not be able to run and errand or something.

Maybe weak, but I don't care.  And most others don't either.  The half-gallon of gas I spend every day driving is worth it to me.

I won't bike, partly due to safety reasons. Most of my commute is on a crowded 80kph (50mph) highway (no sidewalks) where I see people texting/talking on their phone and even passing on the shoulder on a regular basis. The lanes are narrow and the shoulder is gravel...only a fool would ride a bike on that road, and there is no convenient parallel route.

Another factor is that the comfort window for cycling where I live is very short...some pleasant weather in spring and fall, but brutally cold winters that reach -35C and hot humid summers that reach +35C. 8 months of the year you either freeze or sweat. In addition, I pay for parking and would still have to do so if I rode unless I gave up my parking spot. But, if I did that and want it back in winter, I will be 200th on a waiting list and out of luck.

And, there is the "what's my time worth" factor...$2 of gas a day and an 8 minute drive each way is worth it to me to save 30 minutes of riding/cool down/changing clothes, etc. each way.

I realize this is an extreme pro-biking community and hypothetically I agree that bikes are great. I biked all over when I lived in the country as a kid.

However, I am not personally comfortable biking in cities AT ALL, and I'm not ever going to be. I have many friends and acquaintances who are into biking (some even race) and have done it for years. Several have been in bad accidents where they were struck by cars...one had multiple surgeries and lost partial use of an arm. Another (a student employee of my husband) was struck and killed. One had a tree fall on him while he was biking, thankfully, he ended up ok...though that wasn't due to vehicle collision, just crap luck.

I realize these are anecdotal incidents and statistically bikes are probably perfectly safe, but the combo of speed achievable with lack of structural protection just puts me totally off biking. It has nothing to do with physical exertion. I also am uneasy about mixing bikes and pedestrians on the same route, again because of the speed differential. I was struck by a bike while walking and blew out my ACL, requiring surgery.

So, too many bad personal experiences...seems like the universe is telling me to avoid bikes at all costs. No biking for me unless the city has good infrastructure for it that keeps bikes in their own lanes, separate from pedestrians and cars.

I think that much of this depends on the city you're biking in.  There are different rules you need to learn and different things that you need to be aware of cycling in a city.

The areas of Toronto that I cycle in don't have any bike infrastructure (well, I get 500m of bike path on my 20 km route), and it's really not a bad ride at all.  Route selection is important, as is learning to take the lane when necessary.  You kinda get used to traffic patterns and figure out the better streets to ride at various times of day too.

Jeremy E.

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1946
  • Location: Lewiston, ID
Re: Large workplace, small town...and 2 bikes in the bike rack.
« Reply #32 on: July 08, 2015, 12:18:25 PM »

Most experts would also agree that 3 hours of cardio is better for you than 1 hour of cardio.

I have never heard a single expert say that:) Feel free to post any studies you have. And no some random guy on the internet saying something doesn't count as an expert.:)

 Every study I have seen suggests 30-60 mins of moderate intensity (running, biking fast enough that your HR gets up)  4-5x/week being optimial for health cardio health and 2/3 x sessions/week of 45 mins or so of weight lifting for helping bone density and prevention of muscle loss. If you go the low intensity route (i.e. house cleaning, biking slowly), you need more time BUT even with more time you never get the benefits of going at a moderate intensity.
Most studies aren't OPTIMAL, as you suggest, but MINIMUM. Most studies suggest people get a MINIMUM of 30-60 minutes of exercise per day. I haven't seen any studies showing optimal, and I have no intention of looking. Riding a bike is safer than driving a car for a majority of people, period.

foobar

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 731
Re: Large workplace, small town...and 2 bikes in the bike rack.
« Reply #33 on: July 08, 2015, 01:04:26 PM »

Most experts would also agree that 3 hours of cardio is better for you than 1 hour of cardio.

I have never heard a single expert say that:) Feel free to post any studies you have. And no some random guy on the internet saying something doesn't count as an expert.:)

 Every study I have seen suggests 30-60 mins of moderate intensity (running, biking fast enough that your HR gets up)  4-5x/week being optimial for health cardio health and 2/3 x sessions/week of 45 mins or so of weight lifting for helping bone density and prevention of muscle loss. If you go the low intensity route (i.e. house cleaning, biking slowly), you need more time BUT even with more time you never get the benefits of going at a moderate intensity.
Most studies aren't OPTIMAL, as you suggest, but MINIMUM. Most studies suggest people get a MINIMUM of 30-60 minutes of exercise per day. I haven't seen any studies showing optimal, and I have no intention of looking. Riding a bike is safer than driving a car for a majority of people, period.

No these are "optimal" not miniman. Optimal was like 5 hours/week while minimal was like 2.5. The people doing 90+ mins every day had more health issues than the ones doing 45.

Riding a bike isn't remotely as safe as riding a car. MMM own posts says it is 6x as dangerious. Granted that is 6x of a low number. You can debate how much of that increase is car related and how much is just the activity being more dangerous (people do crash. Had a friend take out a hip just last month in a solo accident. He was about 3/4s of an inch from severring an artery which likely would have been fatal. Granted he also blew out a knee playing basket ball and broke an arm skiing aamong others. To some extent I think he just doesn't know what his reasonable limits are).

Lets rephrase MMM arguement from the drivers point of view. By driving a car instead of biking, I reduce my chances of dying by 6x during the trip AND free up 2.5 hours to do moderate exercise that will increase my life expectancy by more than 3 hours of moderate biking. Clearly driving is better right? Heck if you exercise for 90 mins and work for 60 mins, you will even end up with more money. Better health and more money sure sounds like  Win-Win to me:)

Jeremy E.

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1946
  • Location: Lewiston, ID
Re: Large workplace, small town...and 2 bikes in the bike rack.
« Reply #34 on: July 08, 2015, 01:31:45 PM »

Most experts would also agree that 3 hours of cardio is better for you than 1 hour of cardio.

I have never heard a single expert say that:) Feel free to post any studies you have. And no some random guy on the internet saying something doesn't count as an expert.:)

 Every study I have seen suggests 30-60 mins of moderate intensity (running, biking fast enough that your HR gets up)  4-5x/week being optimial for health cardio health and 2/3 x sessions/week of 45 mins or so of weight lifting for helping bone density and prevention of muscle loss. If you go the low intensity route (i.e. house cleaning, biking slowly), you need more time BUT even with more time you never get the benefits of going at a moderate intensity.
Most studies aren't OPTIMAL, as you suggest, but MINIMUM. Most studies suggest people get a MINIMUM of 30-60 minutes of exercise per day. I haven't seen any studies showing optimal, and I have no intention of looking. Riding a bike is safer than driving a car for a majority of people, period.

No these are "optimal" not miniman. Optimal was like 5 hours/week while minimal was like 2.5. The people doing 90+ mins every day had more health issues than the ones doing 45.

Riding a bike isn't remotely as safe as riding a car. MMM own posts says it is 6x as dangerious. Granted that is 6x of a low number. You can debate how much of that increase is car related and how much is just the activity being more dangerous (people do crash. Had a friend take out a hip just last month in a solo accident. He was about 3/4s of an inch from severring an artery which likely would have been fatal. Granted he also blew out a knee playing basket ball and broke an arm skiing aamong others. To some extent I think he just doesn't know what his reasonable limits are).

Lets rephrase MMM arguement from the drivers point of view. By driving a car instead of biking, I reduce my chances of dying by 6x during the trip AND free up 2.5 hours to do moderate exercise that will increase my life expectancy by more than 3 hours of moderate biking. Clearly driving is better right? Heck if you exercise for 90 mins and work for 60 mins, you will even end up with more money. Better health and more money sure sounds like  Win-Win to me:)
http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2013/06/13/bicycling-the-safest-form-of-transportation/
MMM says riding a bike is safer for the average American if you consider everything, I agree with him. The average American won't spend the 2.5 hours doing moderate exercise, but instead do something more complacent on average. A 30 minute drive will likely be less than a 3 hour commute by bike on average. A majority of bike commutes are much closer to 1 hour than 3 hours.

foobar

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 731
Re: Large workplace, small town...and 2 bikes in the bike rack.
« Reply #35 on: July 08, 2015, 02:44:49 PM »

http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2013/06/13/bicycling-the-safest-form-of-transportation/
MMM says riding a bike is safer for the average American if you consider everything, I agree with him. The average American won't spend the 2.5 hours doing moderate exercise, but instead do something more complacent on average. A 30 minute drive will likely be less than a 3 hour commute by bike on average. A majority of bike commutes are much closer to 1 hour than 3 hours.

Average american isn't going to bike an hour (much less 3) so I don't see how that helps.:) Seriously MMM is just wrong here. Biking is a much more dangerous way to travel 10 miles. To make it even close, you need to come up with some health benefits. Problem is that you can get those benefits elsewhere. Again is biking 1+ hour/day going to make me any healthier than the running and lifting I do already? Not in any noticeable way. YOu can debate if I am at the peak of the curve, exercising  10% too little (or 10% too much) but the health benefits either way are going to be about zero. Will my life be better if I cut out those activities that I enjoy and replace them with biking? Nope. I get it that MMM likes to bike. Thats great. No need to come up with crazy logic to try and justify it.

Jeremy E.

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1946
  • Location: Lewiston, ID
Re: Large workplace, small town...and 2 bikes in the bike rack.
« Reply #36 on: July 08, 2015, 05:22:56 PM »

http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2013/06/13/bicycling-the-safest-form-of-transportation/
MMM says riding a bike is safer for the average American if you consider everything, I agree with him. The average American won't spend the 2.5 hours doing moderate exercise, but instead do something more complacent on average. A 30 minute drive will likely be less than a 3 hour commute by bike on average. A majority of bike commutes are much closer to 1 hour than 3 hours.

Average american isn't going to bike an hour (much less 3) so I don't see how that helps.:) Seriously MMM is just wrong here. Biking is a much more dangerous way to travel 10 miles. To make it even close, you need to come up with some health benefits. Problem is that you can get those benefits elsewhere. Again is biking 1+ hour/day going to make me any healthier than the running and lifting I do already? Not in any noticeable way. YOu can debate if I am at the peak of the curve, exercising  10% too little (or 10% too much) but the health benefits either way are going to be about zero. Will my life be better if I cut out those activities that I enjoy and replace them with biking? Nope. I get it that MMM likes to bike. Thats great. No need to come up with crazy logic to try and justify it.
Congratulations you're not average, Americans get an average of 17 minutes of exercise per day, so if they got 20 minutes more from a 10 minute each way commute they would expand their life an average of more than the risk of dying on a bike.

foobar

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 731
Re: Large workplace, small town...and 2 bikes in the bike rack.
« Reply #37 on: July 08, 2015, 06:31:20 PM »

Congratulations you're not average, Americans get an average of 17 minutes of exercise per day, so if they got 20 minutes more from a 10 minute each way commute they would expand their life an average of more than the risk of dying on a bike.

Sure. But they can make the choice to exercise during the time they save by driving a car just as easily as they can make the choice to bike.  Doing either gets out you of the "average" category.

Jeremy E.

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1946
  • Location: Lewiston, ID
Re: Large workplace, small town...and 2 bikes in the bike rack.
« Reply #38 on: July 08, 2015, 07:08:18 PM »

Congratulations you're not average, Americans get an average of 17 minutes of exercise per day, so if they got 20 minutes more from a 10 minute each way commute they would expand their life an average of more than the risk of dying on a bike.

Sure. But they can make the choice to exercise during the time they save by driving a car just as easily as they can make the choice to bike.  Doing either gets out you of the "average" category.
So you finally agree with me, thanks.

mareofnight

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 22
Re: Large workplace, small town...and 2 bikes in the bike rack.
« Reply #39 on: July 08, 2015, 09:38:47 PM »
For those who commute along 50mph roads, is taking a different road an option? Sometimes there's a different path that's longer but safer. (Try Google map's biking or walking directions, including slower alternative paths, for a start.)

Sam E

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 173
Re: Large workplace, small town...and 2 bikes in the bike rack.
« Reply #40 on: July 09, 2015, 05:40:16 AM »
For those who commute along 50mph roads, is taking a different road an option? Sometimes there's a different path that's longer but safer. (Try Google map's biking or walking directions, including slower alternative paths, for a start.)

For me, there are plenty of alternate paths to take, but I always prefer to take the most direct path to get anywhere. I haven't yet encountered a road too scary to bike.

MoonShadow

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 2542
  • Location: Louisville, Ky.
Re: Large workplace, small town...and 2 bikes in the bike rack.
« Reply #41 on: July 09, 2015, 11:53:37 AM »
For those who commute along 50mph roads, is taking a different road an option? Sometimes there's a different path that's longer but safer. (Try Google map's biking or walking directions, including slower alternative paths, for a start.)

For me, there are plenty of alternate paths to take, but I always prefer to take the most direct path to get anywhere. I haven't yet encountered a road too scary to bike.

I commuted by bike for 3+ years, before moving out of the city; and in my experience simply taking the lane as if you owned it is the safest method, but you have to act like a car.  And a super-flash type tail light is a requirement.  There is no way drivers don't notice you after dark with those, because is looks like a cop car from a distance, and as drivers get closer they start thinking, "what the hell is that?".  Wear a back pack though and a helmet, though.  I've actually had a few objects thrown at me from moving vehicles, and a backpack with a jacket and/or poncho in it makes excellent armor.

Jeremy E.

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1946
  • Location: Lewiston, ID
Re: Large workplace, small town...and 2 bikes in the bike rack.
« Reply #42 on: July 09, 2015, 12:51:39 PM »
For those who commute along 50mph roads, is taking a different road an option? Sometimes there's a different path that's longer but safer. (Try Google map's biking or walking directions, including slower alternative paths, for a start.)

For me, there are plenty of alternate paths to take, but I always prefer to take the most direct path to get anywhere. I haven't yet encountered a road too scary to bike.

I commuted by bike for 3+ years, before moving out of the city; and in my experience simply taking the lane as if you owned it is the safest method, but you have to act like a car.  And a super-flash type tail light is a requirement.  There is no way drivers don't notice you after dark with those, because is looks like a cop car from a distance, and as drivers get closer they start thinking, "what the hell is that?".  Wear a back pack though and a helmet, though.  I've actually had a few objects thrown at me from moving vehicles, and a backpack with a jacket and/or poncho in it makes excellent armor.
I hope Karma kicks the ass of the idiots that threw stuff at you

MoonShadow

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 2542
  • Location: Louisville, Ky.
Re: Large workplace, small town...and 2 bikes in the bike rack.
« Reply #43 on: July 09, 2015, 02:14:38 PM »
For those who commute along 50mph roads, is taking a different road an option? Sometimes there's a different path that's longer but safer. (Try Google map's biking or walking directions, including slower alternative paths, for a start.)

For me, there are plenty of alternate paths to take, but I always prefer to take the most direct path to get anywhere. I haven't yet encountered a road too scary to bike.

I commuted by bike for 3+ years, before moving out of the city; and in my experience simply taking the lane as if you owned it is the safest method, but you have to act like a car.  And a super-flash type tail light is a requirement.  There is no way drivers don't notice you after dark with those, because is looks like a cop car from a distance, and as drivers get closer they start thinking, "what the hell is that?".  Wear a back pack though and a helmet, though.  I've actually had a few objects thrown at me from moving vehicles, and a backpack with a jacket and/or poncho in it makes excellent armor.
I hope Karma kicks the ass of the idiots that threw stuff at you

Every time it was a beer can being thrown from the passenger side of an ugly truck.  Twice they were empty, and I barely noticed them; due to the effect of wind sheer against a one-tenth ounce aluminum object.  Once, though, the dumb-ass redneck forgot to drink it first, and threw an unopened beer at me.  Hit me square in the pack.  I definately noticed that one, but it didn't hurt because of the pack.  I stopped to see what hit me, saw the beer can busted and spraying & the primer paint truck rolling by and I had to laugh at the waste.  There really are assholes like this, but they never roll down that passenger window when it's below 40 degrees F. outside.  I've ridden as low as 23 below zero, and that sucked; but with the right clothing, freezing is just a bit chilly and 45 is perfect weather for speed.

Jeremy E.

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1946
  • Location: Lewiston, ID
Re: Large workplace, small town...and 2 bikes in the bike rack.
« Reply #44 on: July 09, 2015, 02:30:35 PM »
For those who commute along 50mph roads, is taking a different road an option? Sometimes there's a different path that's longer but safer. (Try Google map's biking or walking directions, including slower alternative paths, for a start.)

For me, there are plenty of alternate paths to take, but I always prefer to take the most direct path to get anywhere. I haven't yet encountered a road too scary to bike.

I commuted by bike for 3+ years, before moving out of the city; and in my experience simply taking the lane as if you owned it is the safest method, but you have to act like a car.  And a super-flash type tail light is a requirement.  There is no way drivers don't notice you after dark with those, because is looks like a cop car from a distance, and as drivers get closer they start thinking, "what the hell is that?".  Wear a back pack though and a helmet, though.  I've actually had a few objects thrown at me from moving vehicles, and a backpack with a jacket and/or poncho in it makes excellent armor.
I hope Karma kicks the ass of the idiots that threw stuff at you

Every time it was a beer can being thrown from the passenger side of an ugly truck.  Twice they were empty, and I barely noticed them; due to the effect of wind sheer against a one-tenth ounce aluminum object.  Once, though, the dumb-ass redneck forgot to drink it first, and threw an unopened beer at me.  Hit me square in the pack.  I definately noticed that one, but it didn't hurt because of the pack.  I stopped to see what hit me, saw the beer can busted and spraying & the primer paint truck rolling by and I had to laugh at the waste.  There really are assholes like this, but they never roll down that passenger window when it's below 40 degrees F. outside.  I've ridden as low as 23 below zero, and that sucked; but with the right clothing, freezing is just a bit chilly and 45 is perfect weather for speed.
almost exactly 1 year ago on the 4th of july, there were about 8 idiots at the beach(river bank), the same idiots I always saw littering beer cans etc. on the beach, they were shooting fireworks over a very dry field next to the beach, and me and my friends told em to knock it off a few times, or else. They didn't listen, my friend had a bag of garbage in the back of his van for some reason, so I took the bag out opened it, lit it on fire and emptied the contents into the open window of the idiots truck, yelled "don't try to start fires, or you might get burned" than jumped in my friends van and we drove off... I'm not real proud of what I did, but we were outside city limits where cops usually won't come out unless there is a "real emergency" so I figured someone had to teach them a lesson so to speak... This year some other idiots caught that same field on fire and it's turned into a 4500 acre fire and some people are having to evacuate there homes...

The Fake Cheap

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 300
  • Location: Canada
    • The Fake Cheap
Re: Large workplace, small town...and 2 bikes in the bike rack.
« Reply #45 on: July 12, 2015, 01:04:50 PM »

I wish I cold say that my bike is one that is often found in the rack, but I live out of town and have a sizable commute.

So, when are you moving?

Moving would mean giving up my wife's very short commute to work. 

MoonShadow

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 2542
  • Location: Louisville, Ky.
Re: Large workplace, small town...and 2 bikes in the bike rack.
« Reply #46 on: July 13, 2015, 02:18:01 PM »

I wish I cold say that my bike is one that is often found in the rack, but I live out of town and have a sizable commute.

So, when are you moving?

Moving would mean giving up my wife's very short commute to work.

Okay, then.  Does she still have a car for that short commute?  Or does she commute by some other method?  If your present home requires that both of you own and maintain a individual vehicle, and neither of you is in great risk of an involuntary loss of employment, you should try and figure out how much that second vehicle actually costs you annually.  You might be shocked enough to reconsider whether your current home is worth that.

The Fake Cheap

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 300
  • Location: Canada
    • The Fake Cheap
Re: Large workplace, small town...and 2 bikes in the bike rack.
« Reply #47 on: July 15, 2015, 09:06:06 PM »

I wish I cold say that my bike is one that is often found in the rack, but I live out of town and have a sizable commute.

So, when are you moving?

Moving would mean giving up my wife's very short commute to work.

Okay, then.  Does she still have a car for that short commute?  Or does she commute by some other method?  If your present home requires that both of you own and maintain a individual vehicle, and neither of you is in great risk of an involuntary loss of employment, you should try and figure out how much that second vehicle actually costs you annually.  You might be shocked enough to reconsider whether your current home is worth that.

Yes, we now have two vehicles.  We were a one car family until a year ago.   The second car was bought mostly to help with my wife  getting my son to daycare and herself to work.  I'm hoping we will only have both cars for a few years.  I agree it is very expensive to maintain two cars.  Our home is not cheap, but reasonable.  I don't see how moving would help us any, we are already close to her work, and very close to our sons daycare.  Would it make sense to move 1KM closer to her work?  Actually I'll look at it this way, if we moved next door to her work, and the daycare was 1KM away, we would still probably have a second vehicle because my wife would want to be able to get to my son as fast as possible in the event he is hurt or sick at daycare.  That is how she is, and I can't blame her.  I would admit that perhaps in that situation, we could get away with more of a beater car than the 5 year old Corolla she currently drives. 

Good thinking though with comparing the cost of the second vehicle to the price of living in our current home.

Trudie

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1648
Re: Large workplace, small town...and 2 bikes in the bike rack.
« Reply #48 on: July 23, 2015, 02:22:48 PM »
Because anti-cyclists are like zombies.  Individually they can be easily dispatched, but make enough noise and they swarm around you becoming difficult to escape . . . delivering folksy wisdom about dangers of exercise, how you should ride on the sidewalk for safety, and how government spending on cycling infrastructure is a tremendous waste that slows down traffic.

I hear the same thing about running.  If I had a buck for every time someone told me I was ruining my knees or increasing the likelihood I'd wear out a hip I'd be FIRE right now.  Incidentally, an orthopedic surgical nurse I know from my running club says she's never seen someone need a new joint because they "wore their body out running."  LOL.