Author Topic: Kind of sad, actually.....  (Read 15390 times)

No Name Guy

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Kind of sad, actually.....
« on: August 22, 2013, 11:53:57 AM »
http://money.cnn.com/2013/08/22/news/economy/furlough-defense-paycheck/index.html?iid=HP_LN

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For Vroman, a normal bi-weekly paycheck puts $984 in the bank, after taxes and benefits. Furloughs trimmed $142 from each paycheck, bringing her take-home down to $842.

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When furloughs hit on July 8, she continued paying critical monthly bills -- $985 for rent and a $250 car payment. But she quit paying the federal government $250 owed on some $10,000 in Stafford student loans.

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Vroman said she spent a lot of the summer coming up with ways to entertain her kids for free or as cheaply as possible. Her sons are ages 9 and 5, her daughter is 7.

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In preparation for slimmer paychecks, she had already traded in her Hyundai Santa Fe for a more fuel efficient Sonata, and had cut out dinners with her family.

OK....so she brings home $984 x 2 times a month, plus 2 months of the year it's a triple paycheck month. 

Normal month is:  $984 x 2 = $1968 / month. 

Less 985 rent, less 250 car payment.  Right there that's $1235 gone in a typical month, leaving $733.  Then she's paying $250 / month on a student loan, leaving $483 a month for everything else - food, clothing, medical expenses, fuel for the car, car insurance, electricity and other utilities, etc.  Furlough dings $284 out of that, leaving $199 / month for "everything else", but since she stopped the loan payment, that comes back up to $449 / month.

2x a year, with that third paycheck, it's easier.  If these 2 paychecks were "peanut butter" spread over all 12 months, it would work out to an extra $164 / month.

Given how close to the margin she was before the furloughs, one has to wonder why she wasn't already "coming up with ways to entertain her kids for free or as cheaply as possible".  And spending half (!!!!!!) her take home on just rent......wow.  OK, I understand you have 3 kids, but really?  And you can especially not afford to go out for dinner, ever!

And sorry there, you can NOT afford a car that has a payment on it.  You should have sold the Santa Fe.  Just checked, 2013's are $28k on the Hyundai site, while the Sonata is a still expensive $21k - WTF on a 37k / year gross with 3 kids - Hellllooooo, try on Financial Samuari's 10% rule for car prices - you can "afford" about a $3,700 car.

But hey, it's the fault of the Congress critters and the sequester.  There are no sub-optimal choices at all in what is probably the unspoken bad back story to how she ended up with 3 kids on 37k / year.  Nope....it's all the fault of the sequester.....
« Last Edit: August 22, 2013, 12:19:47 PM by No Name Guy »

notquitefrugal

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Re: Kind of sad, actually.....
« Reply #1 on: August 22, 2013, 12:05:20 PM »
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Earlier this year, she earned her criminal justice associate's degree from the University of Phoenix. And now she's enrolled in business administration classes there, hoping a bachelor's degree will help her land a better-paying job.

This is a warning flag for me, too. Isn't University of Phoenix one of those online for-profit colleges of dubious value? And she completed a degree with them, which didn't lead to a better job, so she's completing another degree with the same outfit?

oldtoyota

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Re: Kind of sad, actually.....
« Reply #2 on: August 22, 2013, 12:40:08 PM »
Isn't it cheaper to attend a community college rather than Phoenix?

Albert

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Re: Kind of sad, actually.....
« Reply #3 on: August 22, 2013, 12:42:43 PM »
One might ask why is the father not helping to support his children... 37k alone with three children is poor any way you look at it. Of course some of her choices are poor too, but still...

Yet another point into column "household income is a bullshit". The most I earned in US was 33k, but I didn't have to support anyone else on that.

Mr.Macinstache

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Re: Kind of sad, actually.....
« Reply #4 on: August 22, 2013, 01:06:47 PM »
She probably did the online college thing because having 3 kids and trying to go to a community college would be pretty hard for a single mom. Still though, not sure if U of Phoenix is the best investment... At least she is trying.

That's a common problem with people who don't own their cars outright... they have to make payments since they have no savings to buy a cheap car they can afford. So they are stuck in a loan and you can only get a loan for an expensive new car.

Rebecca Stapler

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Re: Kind of sad, actually.....
« Reply #5 on: August 22, 2013, 01:16:58 PM »
She probably did the online college thing because having 3 kids and trying to go to a community college would be pretty hard for a single mom. Still though, not sure if U of Phoenix is the best investment... At least she is trying.

That's a common problem with people who don't own their cars outright... they have to make payments since they have no savings to buy a cheap car they can afford. So they are stuck in a loan and you can only get a loan for an expensive new car.

Agreed. She can take classes without having to find childcare. But continuing car payments and not paying for student loans is a terrible choice. She could apply for income-sensitive student loan payments!

velocistar237

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Re: Kind of sad, actually.....
« Reply #6 on: August 22, 2013, 01:36:33 PM »
That's a common problem with people who don't own their cars outright... they have to make payments since they have no savings to buy a cheap car they can afford. So they are stuck in a loan and you can only get a loan for an expensive new car.

You can get loans for used cars. I did it. What matters is whether the car's book value exceeds the price, and a down payment can make up any shortfalls.


No Name Guy

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Re: Kind of sad, actually.....
« Reply #8 on: August 22, 2013, 02:15:54 PM »
The article indicates the take home is "after taxes and benefits."

One would presume she is chipping in to the retirement and / or paying for the kids health insurance.

In re that car payment:

Excel reveals the numbers.  Using the pmt function, $250 / month is roughly $15,500 principal at 5% and 72 months.  Or if she's getting a screaming deal on the rate, its 14,600 principal at 1% for 60 months.  Either way, she spent waaayyyyyyy too much on the car. 

I feel sorry that she's got an obviously difficult situation (with the presumably not paying support father of the children) however she's clearly not making the best of it.  The car is a clear example of this.

Oh - I'd say Criminal Justice from Phoenix University is no more of (and IMO, far less of) a rip off than say, an English Literature degree, or let's say a double major in Women's Studies and Religion is, from NYU.  But that's my view.
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/29/your-money/student-loans/29money.html?_r=0

Dr.Vibrissae

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Re: Kind of sad, actually.....
« Reply #9 on: August 22, 2013, 03:00:30 PM »
That's a common problem with people who don't own their cars outright... they have to make payments since they have no savings to buy a cheap car they can afford. So they are stuck in a loan and you can only get a loan for an expensive new car.

You can get loans for used cars. I did it. What matters is whether the car's book value exceeds the price, and a down payment can make up any shortfalls.

This.  I once had to replace a car before I had enough saved up, and I got a used car loan from my credit union with a 1.99% rate.  Credit union will loan up to the blue book value of the car, and if you have pre approval for the loan you don't have to negotiate financing, which gives you much more leverage. 

grantmeaname

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Re: Kind of sad, actually.....
« Reply #10 on: August 22, 2013, 03:05:01 PM »
She probably did the online college thing because having 3 kids and trying to go to a community college would be pretty hard for a single mom. Still though, not sure if U of Phoenix is the best investment... At least she is trying.

Nonprofit colleges offer online degrees too.

Mr.Macinstache

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Re: Kind of sad, actually.....
« Reply #11 on: August 22, 2013, 03:26:26 PM »
That's a common problem with people who don't own their cars outright... they have to make payments since they have no savings to buy a cheap car they can afford. So they are stuck in a loan and you can only get a loan for an expensive new car.

You can get loans for used cars. I did it. What matters is whether the car's book value exceeds the price, and a down payment can make up any shortfalls.

This.  I once had to replace a car before I had enough saved up, and I got a used car loan from my credit union with a 1.99% rate.  Credit union will loan up to the blue book value of the car, and if you have pre approval for the loan you don't have to negotiate financing, which gives you much more leverage.

This is only on cars up to 6 years old, generally. 2007 newer cars are still priced pretty high, and you might only get that loan for up to 36 or 48 months. So the payment would still be pretty high.

If you go for a 2002ish model car, no one really loans on something that old.


Eric

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Re: Kind of sad, actually.....
« Reply #13 on: August 22, 2013, 03:45:42 PM »
If you go for a 2002ish model car, no one really loans on something that old.

There are a billion "buy here, pay here" type car dealers that offer loans on everything on the lot, including really old cars.  All you need is a job!  (and willingness to pay exorbitant interest rates)

EMP

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Re: Kind of sad, actually.....
« Reply #14 on: August 22, 2013, 03:56:33 PM »

No Name Guy

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Re: Kind of sad, actually.....
« Reply #15 on: August 22, 2013, 04:07:04 PM »

2 bedrooms though. 3 kids those ages in one bedroom..yikes.

Back in them-thar days of old (30's into the 40's), my father grew up in a 2BR apartment.....with 3 sisters.  Grandma and pa had one BR, 3 sisters shared the other, my dad got the couch in the front room.

My grandparents knew they were poor and arranged the housing accordingly - e.g. they didn't try and pretend they were middle class by spending on a fancier apartment that they could ill afford.  They took care of the important stuff first - bellies were always full and sufficient if not fancy clothing was on their backs.  Acknowledging reality and acting on that acknowledgement with prioritization of the truly necessary (as compared to desires or wants) is the first step on the road to improving ones situation (MMM's hair on fire debt emergency). 

In the case at hand, this lady needs to wake up and smell the coffee - she's in tight financial straights, even without the sequester / furlough days.  Yet she spends half her typical monthly take home on housing, with half of the remainder going to a car and student loan payments.  There's zero margin there and it was only the impending furlough days that caused her to cut back in some manner (dinners out and coupons).....however she metaphorically shot herself in the foot with that car.

"Kids, I know you like having more bedrooms, however money is very tight and we can't afford a larger place, so you'll need to share a bedroom.  I think it's more important that you are well fed, get your doctor and dentist checkups, and have clean if not fancy clothes and keep the heat and lights on rather that having a larger apartment.  That's also why I sold the car and replaced it with the current one - it's the best that I can afford right now.  We'll make do just fine kids - we are still richer than 90% of the people in the world."

Mr.Macinstache

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Re: Kind of sad, actually.....
« Reply #16 on: August 22, 2013, 04:52:10 PM »
Ha, yeah, I know. I would bet there are a $100 worth of entertainment and dining expenses each month that could be cut. A lot of people cry poor and still spend, I certainly realize that. If she was doing her best, then yeah, she could save on rent by downsizing too. Having 2 kids, that would be a last resort. But kids do adapt pretty quick.

If you go for a 2002ish model car, no one really loans on something that old.

There are a billion "buy here, pay here" type car dealers that offer loans on everything on the lot, including really old cars.  All you need is a job!  (and willingness to pay exorbitant interest rates)

True.. but if she "traded down" to get her new car, chances are she's already underwater on that existing one and stuck with it or has to come up with cash to pay off difference of the loan vs value. I've been there and it stinks.


mulescent

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Re: Kind of sad, actually.....
« Reply #17 on: August 22, 2013, 04:54:17 PM »
Could this person have made better choices? Sure.  Nevertheless, she seems to be doing a lot right, and a 15% pay cut is a difficult thing to deal with.  Regardless of whether it means aggressive re-budgeting to maintain an FI date or just trying keep from going into debt, it would be awful. 

In my opinion, the real story here is yet another example of life getting more difficult for those in the bottom 90+% of the income distribution.  Mustachian or not the forces at work against those folks, of which the sequester is a result, are significant.

reginna

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Re: Kind of sad, actually.....
« Reply #18 on: August 22, 2013, 05:11:21 PM »
Agreed mulescent.

MgoSam

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Re: Kind of sad, actually.....
« Reply #19 on: August 22, 2013, 08:55:05 PM »
I think this is a further example of just how many people in the world are so close to the edge. A layoff, or some bad luck, can destroy any semblance of stability.

My reaction to seeing this is to ensure that I do not find myself in a similar circumstance. That I provide myself with as much cushion as I can. That and retire as early as possible.

mpbaker22

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Re: Kind of sad, actually.....
« Reply #20 on: August 22, 2013, 09:32:18 PM »
http://www.zillow.com/homedetails/438-Delaware-Ave-Albany-NY-12209/2111360898_zpid/
http://www.zillow.com/homedetails/235-S-Swan-St-1-Albany-NY-12202/2111336930_zpid/

I feel like I've said enough.

2 bedrooms though. 3 kids those ages in one bedroom..yikes.
No reason that the boys couldn't share a room and the mom and the daughter in the other.

As I said in another thread, I have friends who grew up with 6 kids in one room for a while.  Sometimes when you can't afford anything else, you have to do what you have to do.  Three young children living in one room isn't even very bad.

mgreczyn

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Re: Kind of sad, actually.....
« Reply #21 on: August 22, 2013, 10:36:29 PM »
I wouldn't be surprised if this poor woman is a vet who innocently walked into her installation's education office looking to better herself and got suckered in by one of phoenix's pitches.  What's really sad is that military training doesn't include financial training and that companies like Phoenix can get away with aggressively marketing their near-worthless diplomas to DoD personnel, employees and contractors.  Any organization that spends more money on marketing than on education shouldn't be teaching anybody anything.  GI Bill dollars and student loans are irresistible for them, and they likely would quickly go bankrupt if Congress ever did the right thing and barred them from receiving federally subsidized financial aid or GI bill money.  When they're not lobbying Congress, those vultures are all up in education offices.  Community colleges don't stand a chance against the well-oiled marketing machine and for some reason you rarely see military college students directed towards traditional 4-year colleges.  Phoenix and their ilk have sucked many a GI Bill benefit dry in return for poor employment prospects and a pile of debt.

velocistar237

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Re: Kind of sad, actually.....
« Reply #22 on: August 23, 2013, 06:53:55 AM »
That's a common problem with people who don't own their cars outright... they have to make payments since they have no savings to buy a cheap car they can afford. So they are stuck in a loan and you can only get a loan for an expensive new car.

You can get loans for used cars. I did it. What matters is whether the car's book value exceeds the price, and a down payment can make up any shortfalls.

This.  I once had to replace a car before I had enough saved up, and I got a used car loan from my credit union with a 1.99% rate.  Credit union will loan up to the blue book value of the car, and if you have pre approval for the loan you don't have to negotiate financing, which gives you much more leverage.

This is only on cars up to 6 years old, generally. 2007 newer cars are still priced pretty high, and you might only get that loan for up to 36 or 48 months. So the payment would still be pretty high.

If you go for a 2002ish model car, no one really loans on something that old.

Ah, okay. By that standard, I bought a new car last year, a 2006 model. In my case, it was a 6 year loan. Still, a 6-year-old car can cost as little as $5000, which with a 4 year loan would cut her payment by more than 50%, even with high interest.

2 bedrooms though. 3 kids those ages in one bedroom..yikes.

We have 2 adults and 3 kids in 2 bedrooms. Not everyone would be okay with it, but I'd think anyone who otherwise would have trouble making ends meet could quickly adapt.

EMP

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Re: Kind of sad, actually.....
« Reply #23 on: August 23, 2013, 07:03:33 AM »
I wouldn't be surprised if this poor woman is a vet who innocently walked into her installation's education office looking to better herself and got suckered in by one of phoenix's pitches.  What's really sad is that military training doesn't include financial training and that companies like Phoenix can get away with aggressively marketing their near-worthless diplomas to DoD personnel, employees and contractors.  Any organization that spends more money on marketing than on education shouldn't be teaching anybody anything.  GI Bill dollars and student loans are irresistible for them, and they likely would quickly go bankrupt if Congress ever did the right thing and barred them from receiving federally subsidized financial aid or GI bill money.  When they're not lobbying Congress, those vultures are all up in education offices.  Community colleges don't stand a chance against the well-oiled marketing machine and for some reason you rarely see military college students directed towards traditional 4-year colleges.  Phoenix and their ilk have sucked many a GI Bill benefit dry in return for poor employment prospects and a pile of debt.

It's not just vets. UOP's practices are incredibly predatory. They will straight up lie to students, telling them financial aid will cover everything. What they do't say is that financial aid is a $5k loan for one semester's worth of classes.

Albert

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Re: Kind of sad, actually.....
« Reply #24 on: August 23, 2013, 10:44:51 AM »
I wouldn't be surprised if this poor woman is a vet who innocently walked into her installation's education office looking to better herself and got suckered in by one of phoenix's pitches.  What's really sad is that military training doesn't include financial training and that companies like Phoenix can get away with aggressively marketing their near-worthless diplomas to DoD personnel, employees and contractors.  Any organization that spends more money on marketing than on education shouldn't be teaching anybody anything.  GI Bill dollars and student loans are irresistible for them, and they likely would quickly go bankrupt if Congress ever did the right thing and barred them from receiving federally subsidized financial aid or GI bill money.  When they're not lobbying Congress, those vultures are all up in education offices.  Community colleges don't stand a chance against the well-oiled marketing machine and for some reason you rarely see military college students directed towards traditional 4-year colleges.  Phoenix and their ilk have sucked many a GI Bill benefit dry in return for poor employment prospects and a pile of debt.

Those people are just not very smart to say it politely. We are talking about supposedly mature adults here.Taking a loan and starting studies is not an impulse decision like taking an extra bag of crackers in the supermarket. Everybody has Internet these days and a simple Google search will tell you all you need to know about institutions of this kind. Even that is not necessary if you are following news with even a minimal regularity as every good citizen should. Even I know about it...

huadpe

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Re: Kind of sad, actually.....
« Reply #25 on: August 23, 2013, 10:56:16 AM »
If you go for a 2002ish model car, no one really loans on something that old.

There are a billion "buy here, pay here" type car dealers that offer loans on everything on the lot, including really old cars.  All you need is a job!  (and willingness to pay exorbitant interest rates)

It's not the interest rates at the buy here/pay here places, it's the prices on the cars.  They typically price the cars at 2x KBB value, and then charge 15-20% interest on the loan on top of the overinflated value.  Never EVER buy a car at one of these places, they are total ripoffs and should be avoided by everyone.

Their business model is:

1. Sell you a car worth $4,000 for $8,000 at 20% interest with say $1000 down

2. Wait for you to miss a payment.

3. Repo your car immediately.

4. Sell the next schmuck the same car worth $3800 for $7600 with say $1000 down.

4a.  Sue you for the rest of the loan plus interest while they have already re-sold the car.

http://www.latimes.com/business/buy-here-pay-here/la-fi-buy-here-pay-here-part1-storyb,0,5689256.story

sleepyguy

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Re: Kind of sad, actually.....
« Reply #26 on: August 23, 2013, 01:46:37 PM »
WTF?  Is that common?  100K studen loan... 37k job?

Spork

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Re: Kind of sad, actually.....
« Reply #27 on: August 23, 2013, 01:54:46 PM »

2 bedrooms though. 3 kids those ages in one bedroom..yikes.

Back in them-thar days of old (30's into the 40's), my father grew up in a 2BR apartment.....with 3 sisters.  Grandma and pa had one BR, 3 sisters shared the other, my dad got the couch in the front room.

[edited for brevity]

Yes, my dad, his 2 brothers and his mom and dad lived in a single room.  And, they thought life was pretty awesome.


EMP

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Re: Kind of sad, actually.....
« Reply #28 on: August 23, 2013, 02:03:22 PM »
I wouldn't be surprised if this poor woman is a vet who innocently walked into her installation's education office looking to better herself and got suckered in by one of phoenix's pitches.  What's really sad is that military training doesn't include financial training and that companies like Phoenix can get away with aggressively marketing their near-worthless diplomas to DoD personnel, employees and contractors.  Any organization that spends more money on marketing than on education shouldn't be teaching anybody anything.  GI Bill dollars and student loans are irresistible for them, and they likely would quickly go bankrupt if Congress ever did the right thing and barred them from receiving federally subsidized financial aid or GI bill money.  When they're not lobbying Congress, those vultures are all up in education offices.  Community colleges don't stand a chance against the well-oiled marketing machine and for some reason you rarely see military college students directed towards traditional 4-year colleges.  Phoenix and their ilk have sucked many a GI Bill benefit dry in return for poor employment prospects and a pile of debt.

Those people are just not very smart to say it politely. We are talking about supposedly mature adults here.Taking a loan and starting studies is not an impulse decision like taking an extra bag of crackers in the supermarket. Everybody has Internet these days and a simple Google search will tell you all you need to know about institutions of this kind. Even that is not necessary if you are following news with even a minimal regularity as every good citizen should. Even I know about it...

A lot of them are desperate, which can tend to cloud your judgement.

mgreczyn

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Re: Kind of sad, actually.....
« Reply #29 on: August 23, 2013, 02:27:51 PM »
WTF?  Is that common?  100K studen loan... 37k job?
When you get a degree from a for-profit organization like UOP, the results often reflect the fact that the "school" is more concerned with getting students with access to federal education benefits through the doors than they are with educating those students.  As a matter of fact, a 37k job might be one of the more successful UOP outcomes.

RMD

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Re: Kind of sad, actually.....
« Reply #30 on: August 24, 2013, 02:57:31 PM »
In some areas there are occupancy standards and complexes cannot rent to families where siblings will room share like that.  A friend of mine had to move up to an additional bedroom because she and her husband had another child, never mind the fact the infant would have been in their room for the first year.

pbkmaine

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Re: Kind of sad, actually.....
« Reply #31 on: August 24, 2013, 03:16:21 PM »
UofP paid off big time for my husband. His company paid for his MBA and the degree qualified him for a job transfer. He went from middle management to executive suite within 5 years. The company wanted him to have an MBA and did not care where it came from. His total cost was a few hundred in books. What was interesting to me was that his courses were very similar to my (Ivy League) MBA courses.

mpbaker22

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Re: Kind of sad, actually.....
« Reply #32 on: August 24, 2013, 09:24:27 PM »
In some areas there are occupancy standards and complexes cannot rent to families where siblings will room share like that.  A friend of mine had to move up to an additional bedroom because she and her husband had another child, never mind the fact the infant would have been in their room for the first year.

Keep in mind the links I posted were for 2 bedroom apartments.  There were 3 kids? and a mom, so it would have been 2 people per bedroom.  I don't know of a lot of places that are more strict than that, but maybe it is common?

EMP

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Re: Kind of sad, actually.....
« Reply #33 on: August 24, 2013, 11:26:51 PM »
UofP paid off big time for my husband. His company paid for his MBA and the degree qualified him for a job transfer. He went from middle management to executive suite within 5 years. The company wanted him to have an MBA and did not care where it came from. His total cost was a few hundred in books. What was interesting to me was that his courses were very similar to my (Ivy League) MBA courses.

Yes, but I doubt he was aggressively recruited by UOP. The demographic that their TV commercials are aimed at is not already gainfully employed. And most don't have a high school diploma, much less a Bachelor's. I'm glad your husband did well, but he's the exception, not the rule.

Micheal

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Re: Kind of sad, actually.....
« Reply #34 on: August 25, 2013, 01:25:16 AM »
Setting what she makes aside, if she was "making" it before and the Furlough was announced well in advance why the hell did she not save money from before that to cover the lean times like the rest of us do.

DocCyane

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Re: Kind of sad, actually.....
« Reply #35 on: August 25, 2013, 08:30:19 AM »
Could this person have made better choices? Sure.  Nevertheless, she seems to be doing a lot right, and a 15% pay cut is a difficult thing to deal with.  Regardless of whether it means aggressive re-budgeting to maintain an FI date or just trying keep from going into debt, it would be awful. 

In my opinion, the real story here is yet another example of life getting more difficult for those in the bottom 90+% of the income distribution.  Mustachian or not the forces at work against those folks, of which the sequester is a result, are significant.

These "on the edge" folks aren't getting the right messages. They are exposed to advertising that tells them to buy things they don't need and can't afford. They are told a college degree is the golden ticket to a higher paying job. They are coerced into believing debt is the norm.

In past generations people were poor and knew they were poor. They acted like they were poor, and they weren't embarrassed about it.

Now everyone walks around thinking they are middle class which somehow means they are one lucky break or one lotto ticket away from having the good life. In reality they are one illness, auto accident, or job layoff away from bankruptcy and homelessness.

Accepting the reality of your financial situation does not mean you have resigned yourself to it, but it does mean you don't act foolishly. People haven't made that leap.

No Name Guy

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Re: Kind of sad, actually.....
« Reply #36 on: August 26, 2013, 05:45:00 PM »
WTF?  Is that common?  100K studen loan... 37k job?
When you get a degree from a for-profit organization like UOP, the results often reflect the fact that the "school" is more concerned with getting students with access to federal education benefits through the doors than they are with educating those students.  As a matter of fact, a 37k job might be one of the more successful UOP outcomes.

Ahem....I think the 100k loan is for the NYU graduate in the NY Times article I linked on a separate "genius" who ran up a huge tab for a pair of useless degrees.

The vet / mother of 3 from the first link at the head of this post (the one I actually feel sorry for since she apparently doesn't know how to manage money) makes 37k and has "only" 10k in student loan debt per the linked article.

UoP may be dirtbags.....but so are Ivy League level universities like NYU selling over priced lib arts (or worse) degrees to those who are borrowing all the costs, only more so, IMO.

grantmeaname

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Re: Kind of sad, actually.....
« Reply #37 on: August 26, 2013, 05:56:07 PM »
The real Ivy League offers a lot more financial aid than that. NYU is just an exceptionally expensive school.

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Re: Kind of sad, actually.....
« Reply #38 on: August 26, 2013, 06:20:14 PM »
WTF?  Is that common?  100K studen loan... 37k job?
When you get a degree from a for-profit organization like UOP, the results often reflect the fact that the "school" is more concerned with getting students with access to federal education benefits through the doors than they are with educating those students.  As a matter of fact, a 37k job might be one of the more successful UOP outcomes.

Ahem....I think the 100k loan is for the NYU graduate in the NY Times article I linked on a separate "genius" who ran up a huge tab for a pair of useless degrees.

The vet / mother of 3 from the first link at the head of this post (the one I actually feel sorry for since she apparently doesn't know how to manage money) makes 37k and has "only" 10k in student loan debt per the linked article.

UoP may be dirtbags.....but so are Ivy League level universities like NYU selling over priced lib arts (or worse) degrees to those who are borrowing all the costs, only more so, IMO.

At least at an Ivy you might meet someone that could give you a leg up in the job search.