Author Topic: Jilted Biglaw Associate Sues Ex-Fiancee Over $100K Engagement Ring  (Read 8312 times)

anonlawyer

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 10
Jilted Biglaw Associate Sues Ex-Fiancee Over $100K Engagement Ring
« on: September 25, 2018, 08:01:15 PM »
This article and accompanying complaint make for a good read.  It's a glimpse into the lives of a financially incompetent attorney and his puppetmaster.

Article: https://abovethelaw.com/2018/09/jilted-biglaw-associate-sues-ex-fiancee-over-100k-engagement-ring/
Complaint: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1pQTAAok3yc3JBVxyNVh6Xz_nuXpg_KUl/view

dandarc

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3194
  • Age: 36
Re: Jilted Biglaw Associate Sues Ex-Fiancee Over $100K Engagement Ring
« Reply #1 on: September 25, 2018, 08:13:21 PM »
Wow.

accolay

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 854
Re: Jilted Biglaw Associate Sues Ex-Fiancee Over $100K Engagement Ring
« Reply #2 on: September 26, 2018, 12:56:20 AM »
What a way to find your 15 minutes of fame. I think ELO wrote a song about this.

I read the complaint. Holy crap. This must have been this guy's first girlfriend or something. Whipped!
« Last Edit: September 26, 2018, 01:02:56 AM by accolay »

mizzourah2006

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 416
  • Location: NWA
Re: Jilted Biglaw Associate Sues Ex-Fiancee Over $100K Engagement Ring
« Reply #3 on: September 26, 2018, 06:43:23 AM »
A friend of mine just sent this to me yesterday. He worked with the guy at the law firm they are referencing. He said the guy was an interesting dude and it was pretty much the first girlfriend he had ever had.

maizeman

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 2999
Re: Jilted Biglaw Associate Sues Ex-Fiancee Over $100K Engagement Ring
« Reply #4 on: September 26, 2018, 07:10:02 AM »
A friend of mine just sent this to me yesterday. He worked with the guy at the law firm they are referencing. He said the guy was an interesting dude and it was pretty much the first girlfriend he had ever had.

*Wince* for me anyway that particular detail takes it from a least a little funny to really painful. Poor guy.

Johnez

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 944
  • Location: Southern California
Re: Jilted Biglaw Associate Sues Ex-Fiancee Over $100K Engagement Ring
« Reply #5 on: September 26, 2018, 07:14:43 AM »
Daaaayuuuum. Kudos to the guy for actually suing for the ring though.

rothwem

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 426
  • Location: WNC
Re: Jilted Biglaw Associate Sues Ex-Fiancee Over $100K Engagement Ring
« Reply #6 on: September 26, 2018, 07:38:05 AM »
Daaaayuuuum. Kudos to the guy for actually suing for the ring though.

Exactly. And even if he blows all of the ring proceeds in legal fees, it’s going to hurt the girl a lot more than it will hurt him, and he’ll have a valuable learning experience to go along with it.

He will likely never trust a female ever again though.

PoutineLover

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 988
Re: Jilted Biglaw Associate Sues Ex-Fiancee Over $100K Engagement Ring
« Reply #7 on: September 26, 2018, 08:39:51 AM »
Holy shit she sounds like a piece of work. Poor guy. Good thing he didn't marry her.

Candace

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 496
  • Age: 52
  • Location: Hampton Roads, Virginia
Re: Jilted Biglaw Associate Sues Ex-Fiancee Over $100K Engagement Ring
« Reply #8 on: September 26, 2018, 08:54:19 AM »
She does sound like a piece of work. Normally my position would be that an engagement ring is a gift regardless of whether the wedding takes place. But she agreed to give it back, so she should give it back. Not to mention that he originally had a nice budget for the ring which she harangued him into tripling and then taking out a freaking loan to afford.

Hopefully the lawsuit will make other men take notice and avoid her like the plague in the future. And help him attain self-respect. And hopefully get some of his money back.

P.S. DH, who is a family lawyer, says an engagement ring is normally treated by the law as a gift (in Virginia). However, if she and her ex had an agreement that she would exchange something for the ring, then she might have to give it back. The article said the "dads" worked out a deal in which she would stay in the house for a few months and then give the ring back when she moved out. If the two parties (not their dads) had a *written* agreement that she would stay in the house and then give the ring back when she moved out, that would be a stronger position for him. A verbal deal is harder to enforce. Of course a few months' rent would be worth a lot less than $100k, but that would still have been a deal (just a lopsided one, which is totally legal here).

SimpleCycle

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 758
  • Location: Chicago
Re: Jilted Biglaw Associate Sues Ex-Fiancee Over $100K Engagement Ring
« Reply #9 on: September 26, 2018, 09:14:10 AM »
She does sound like a piece of work. Normally my position would be that an engagement ring is a gift regardless of whether the wedding takes place. But she agreed to give it back, so she should give it back. Not to mention that he originally had a nice budget for the ring which she harangued him into tripling and then taking out a freaking loan to afford.

Hopefully the lawsuit will make other men take notice and avoid her like the plague in the future. And help him attain self-respect. And hopefully get some of his money back.

P.S. DH, who is a family lawyer, says an engagement ring is normally treated by the law as a gift (in Virginia). However, if she and her ex had an agreement that she would exchange something for the ring, then she might have to give it back. The article said the "dads" worked out a deal in which she would stay in the house for a few months and then give the ring back when she moved out. If the two parties (not their dads) had a *written* agreement that she would stay in the house and then give the ring back when she moved out, that would be a stronger position for him. A verbal deal is harder to enforce. Of course a few months' rent would be worth a lot less than $100k, but that would still have been a deal (just a lopsided one, which is totally legal here).

I mean, it certainly seems like D.C. is the proper jurisdiction, rather than Virginia.  D.C. case law treats is as a conditional gift.

The girlfriend sounds absolutely abusive.

wageslave23

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 262
Re: Jilted Biglaw Associate Sues Ex-Fiancee Over $100K Engagement Ring
« Reply #10 on: September 26, 2018, 09:55:49 AM »
If he doesn't get the ring back, he should think of it as the best investment he has ever made.  Not marrying her probably saved him a couple million over his lifetime, not counting the emotional and mental costs.  So his $100k will have a great ROI if he learns to not give in to gold diggers.

partgypsy

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2424
Re: Jilted Biglaw Associate Sues Ex-Fiancee Over $100K Engagement Ring
« Reply #11 on: September 26, 2018, 12:02:22 PM »
It's too bad he didn't have any close friends, family who he could have confided in that he budgeted 40K! but she wants a ring that will be 100K, to say dude, that is crazy and advise him that is really out of the bounds of normalcy and do a gut check. 

the women I know of that have that size of ring either it was an inherited family ring, or had smaller rings initially and then got upgrades after 25+ years of marriage. 

Does it say what state the proposal took place? Every state has different rules what an engagement ring is. Some it is simply a gift. Others it is a conditional gift (based on marriage) so she would have to return.  Wondering how much pain this dude is going to be. And remember, he is out more than the 100K. He's been paying interest on the loan and also been paying 4+K a month rent for that huge house!!!

I still remember a person I knew who got married but it ended quickly and they agreed to let her keep the ring. It was a 15K ring and I remember thinking, holy moley how much money that was.
« Last Edit: September 26, 2018, 12:07:55 PM by partgypsy »

Slee_stack

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 853
Re: Jilted Biglaw Associate Sues Ex-Fiancee Over $100K Engagement Ring
« Reply #12 on: September 26, 2018, 12:29:02 PM »
Even if he gets the ring back, it will be worth a pittance of the original sale price.  He'll be lucky to see $30k back if hes able to sell it.

What an awful story.  What an incredibly ugly person to take advantage of someone else that loves you too.  I sincerely hope karma comes back to haunt this gold-digger.

v8rx7guy

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1055
  • Location: PNW
Re: Jilted Biglaw Associate Sues Ex-Fiancee Over $100K Engagement Ring
« Reply #13 on: September 26, 2018, 12:32:23 PM »
Speaking from someone who was on the painful side of a broken engagement where she gave the ring back without even asking... this guy is about to find out how little diamonds are ACTUALLY worth.


Candace

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 496
  • Age: 52
  • Location: Hampton Roads, Virginia
Re: Jilted Biglaw Associate Sues Ex-Fiancee Over $100K Engagement Ring
« Reply #15 on: September 26, 2018, 12:55:24 PM »
She does sound like a piece of work. Normally my position would be that an engagement ring is a gift regardless of whether the wedding takes place. But she agreed to give it back, so she should give it back. Not to mention that he originally had a nice budget for the ring which she harangued him into tripling and then taking out a freaking loan to afford.

Hopefully the lawsuit will make other men take notice and avoid her like the plague in the future. And help him attain self-respect. And hopefully get some of his money back.

P.S. DH, who is a family lawyer, says an engagement ring is normally treated by the law as a gift (in Virginia). However, if she and her ex had an agreement that she would exchange something for the ring, then she might have to give it back. The article said the "dads" worked out a deal in which she would stay in the house for a few months and then give the ring back when she moved out. If the two parties (not their dads) had a *written* agreement that she would stay in the house and then give the ring back when she moved out, that would be a stronger position for him. A verbal deal is harder to enforce. Of course a few months' rent would be worth a lot less than $100k, but that would still have been a deal (just a lopsided one, which is totally legal here).

I mean, it certainly seems like D.C. is the proper jurisdiction, rather than Virginia.  D.C. case law treats is as a conditional gift.

The girlfriend sounds absolutely abusive.
I didn't mean to say that Virginia law should apply. Sorry if I was unclear. I read the article but didn't notice where the guy lived, so I just gave the example from Virginia. If D.C. treats it as a conditional gift, it sounds like it's a good thing they didn't live in Virginia! I sure hope he wins.

eljefe-speaks

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 193
Re: Jilted Biglaw Associate Sues Ex-Fiancee Over $100K Engagement Ring
« Reply #16 on: September 26, 2018, 01:55:49 PM »
Why the expensive representation in court? Wouldn't this be a very simple case to argue yourself? "Your honor, the gift is conditional. I rest my case." It doesn't seem like finding legal precedent would be too much trouble either.

YYK

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 32
  • Location: Scattered disc
Re: Jilted Biglaw Associate Sues Ex-Fiancee Over $100K Engagement Ring
« Reply #17 on: September 26, 2018, 02:05:25 PM »
Why the expensive representation in court? Wouldn't this be a very simple case to argue yourself? "Your honor, the gift is conditional. I rest my case." It doesn't seem like finding legal precedent would be too much trouble either.

Why the 40k budget in the first place? Lots of money being tossed around here, might as well be consistent.

Speaking from someone who was on the painful side of a broken engagement where she gave the ring back without even asking... this guy is about to find out how little diamonds are ACTUALLY worth.

You're not supposed to ever sell them, remember? Otherwise the scam is revealed for what it is.

PoutineLover

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 988
Re: Jilted Biglaw Associate Sues Ex-Fiancee Over $100K Engagement Ring
« Reply #18 on: September 26, 2018, 02:14:48 PM »
Well yeah, it was pretty stupid to spend 100k on a rock and would have been just as dumb at 40k. It seems like he was so head over heels in love that he didn't see the multiple red flags in this situation, but even so, I think she should have to give the ring back and pay him for damages. He was an idiot, but she's a thief (at least according to the facts he presented).

MgoSam

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3637
  • Location: Minnesota
Re: Jilted Biglaw Associate Sues Ex-Fiancee Over $100K Engagement Ring
« Reply #19 on: September 26, 2018, 02:44:59 PM »
I concur with everyone in that even if he loses the case and the ring he still likely got off very cheaply.

FrugalToque

  • Global Moderator
  • Bristles
  • *****
  • Posts: 474
  • Location: Canada
Re: Jilted Biglaw Associate Sues Ex-Fiancee Over $100K Engagement Ring
« Reply #20 on: September 27, 2018, 06:27:29 AM »
That's pretty special right there.  Maybe he'll start a blog about relationships and call this moment his BFM.  Everyone's got a BFM. :-)

Also, I'm glad to see that my native Ontario has explicit laws about returning such gifts.
http://www.christiecummings.com/blog/2013/09/22/who-gets-the-engagement-ring-if-the-wedding-is-called-off-

That's wise.

Toque.

partgypsy

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2424
Re: Jilted Biglaw Associate Sues Ex-Fiancee Over $100K Engagement Ring
« Reply #21 on: September 27, 2018, 08:25:30 AM »
There have been multiple strains of legal thought about whether engagement rings could be kept by the proposed to or not. Early on, it may have been a conditional gift, but the condition was the woman accepting the engagement. And if the man then broke off the engagement, the woman could keep the ring. The presumption being that women would not engage in sexual relations until engaged/married and if the man then broke it off the ring was kind of a consolation prize given that she was now used merchandise.

For me, I still think that if a man gives a gift (ring) but then breaks the engagement, even if the law is on the man's side, the decent thing is to let the woman keep it, unless she lied or did something that caused the engagement break up. Just my opinion. Otherwise a guy can go around proposing to women, giving them a ring, break it off, use the same ring to propose to someone else, etc etc.


As others have stated, the resale value of diamond rings are low (25-50% range, Zales type rings even less). Add to fact that it is a conditional gift means that no one should be spending a lot of engagement rings.

At least it wasn't a 10-13 million diamond ring, sold for 2 million.
https://www.usmagazine.com/celebrity-news/news/mariah-carey-sold-engagement-ring-from-ex-fiance-james-packer/ 

I'm a red panda

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 7279
  • Location: United States
Re: Jilted Biglaw Associate Sues Ex-Fiancee Over $100K Engagement Ring
« Reply #22 on: September 27, 2018, 08:30:00 AM »
There have been multiple strains of legal thought about whether engagement rings could be kept by the proposed to or not. Early on, it may have been a conditional gift, but the condition was the woman accepting the engagement. And if the man then broke off the engagement, the woman could keep the ring. The presumption being that women would not engage in sexual relations until engaged/married and if the man then broke it off the ring was kind of a consolation prize given that she was now used merchandise.


What? What time period was this the thought? (Specifically- that sexual relations would start upon engagement?)  I have never heard that reasoning.

As, despite it being totally untrue, it seems most people still seem to pretend that it is necessary to not have sex until marriage. You know, because religion.

MgoSam

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3637
  • Location: Minnesota
Re: Jilted Biglaw Associate Sues Ex-Fiancee Over $100K Engagement Ring
« Reply #23 on: September 27, 2018, 10:58:32 AM »
For me, I still think that if a man gives a gift (ring) but then breaks the engagement, even if the law is on the man's side, the decent thing is to let the woman keep it, unless she lied or did something that caused the engagement break up. Just my opinion. Otherwise a guy can go around proposing to women, giving them a ring, break it off, use the same ring to propose to someone else, etc etc.
 

So a guy should give up a valuable ring that he may legally have the rights to because otherwise he would be able to keep using the same ring to propose to women? Do you know many people that go around proposing to women? That seems to be a strange leap you are making in this case.

accolay

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 854
Re: Jilted Biglaw Associate Sues Ex-Fiancee Over $100K Engagement Ring
« Reply #24 on: September 27, 2018, 01:16:04 PM »
For me, I still think that if a man gives a gift (ring) but then breaks the engagement, even if the law is on the man's side, the decent thing is to let the woman keep it, unless she lied or did something that caused the engagement break up. Just my opinion. Otherwise a guy can go around proposing to women, giving them a ring, break it off, use the same ring to propose to someone else, etc etc.

Maybe? That complaint makes her sounds like such an awful person. Add that she lived in his rented house rent free, wouldn't give his stuff back, said she'd give the ring back because it would give her more leverage to stay in the house etc. etc.

Of course, he should have just said no to everything early on and saved himself a lot of trouble.

I know the law is supposed to be blind to awful people too, but I wonder how much sympathy the judge will have for her?

partgypsy

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2424
Re: Jilted Biglaw Associate Sues Ex-Fiancee Over $100K Engagement Ring
« Reply #25 on: September 27, 2018, 02:59:22 PM »
For me, I still think that if a man gives a gift (ring) but then breaks the engagement, even if the law is on the man's side, the decent thing is to let the woman keep it, unless she lied or did something that caused the engagement break up. Just my opinion. Otherwise a guy can go around proposing to women, giving them a ring, break it off, use the same ring to propose to someone else, etc etc.
 

So a guy should give up a valuable ring that he may legally have the rights to because otherwise he would be able to keep using the same ring to propose to women? Do you know many people that go around proposing to women? That seems to be a strange leap you are making in this case.

No, def not related to this case! And there's no indication that's what happened in this case.
Regarding who gets the ring if the guy proposes and then breaks it off, that's just my personal opinion, and it would depend on the circumstances.
 
There is also the situation, that the bride and or bride's family often contributes more to the wedding; if the engagement is broken off very close to actual wedding the woman, woman's family may lose significant amount in deposits, etc. Much more than the worth of an typical engagement ring. But I guess that's a lawsuit for another day. 

This is from the internetz
For the legal deal on rings, we turned to Caroline Krauss-Browne, an attorney in the matrimonial department at Tenzer Greenblatt LLP, in New York City. Note however, that laws differ state to state. "In accepting the ring, the bride-to-be promises her hand in marriage. So long as she is willing to fulfill her promise, she has given consideration for contract. So if he breaks it off, she can keep the ring," Caroline explains. "But if she breaks off the engagement, she signifies that she is no longer willing to keep the promise, and in this case, she should not retain benefit from the agreement (the ring)." If the ring cost less than $2,000, Caroline says that a small-claims court is a fine forum to air your grievance. (Check small-claims limits in your locale.) But, Caroline maintains, "If the ring were an heirloom of extraordinary value, the laws of equity would probably override in a situation like that." But for the legal specifics of your state, consult with a local attorney.
 
« Last Edit: September 27, 2018, 03:11:47 PM by partgypsy »

Slee_stack

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 853
Re: Jilted Biglaw Associate Sues Ex-Fiancee Over $100K Engagement Ring
« Reply #26 on: September 27, 2018, 03:42:24 PM »
Ethically, why should a woman ever WANT to keep the engagement ring?

I'm a red panda

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 7279
  • Location: United States
Re: Jilted Biglaw Associate Sues Ex-Fiancee Over $100K Engagement Ring
« Reply #27 on: September 27, 2018, 03:53:46 PM »
Ethically, why should a woman ever WANT to keep the engagement ring?

Ethically, it was a gift given to her?
Rationally, it is of value and to sell it?
Irrationally, because eff him.

maizeman

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 2999
Re: Jilted Biglaw Associate Sues Ex-Fiancee Over $100K Engagement Ring
« Reply #28 on: September 27, 2018, 04:16:31 PM »
Yeah this is more close to what I was taught as a child. Whoever backs out of the engagement the other person keeps the ring. Sort of like earnest money with a house purchase offer. But perhaps it is unwise to explore that analogy too deeply.

partgypsy

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2424
Re: Jilted Biglaw Associate Sues Ex-Fiancee Over $100K Engagement Ring
« Reply #29 on: September 27, 2018, 08:32:31 PM »
For me, I still think that if a man gives a gift (ring) but then breaks the engagement, even if the law is on the man's side, the decent thing is to let the woman keep it, unless she lied or did something that caused the engagement break up. Just my opinion. Otherwise a guy can go around proposing to women, giving them a ring, break it off, use the same ring to propose to someone else, etc etc.
 

So a guy should give up a valuable ring that he may legally have the rights to because otherwise he would be able to keep using the same ring to propose to women? Do you know many people that go around proposing to women? That seems to be a strange leap you are making in this case.

It happened to my sister. She was proposed to by her boyfriend with a ring, that he bought and had from a previous broken engagement. Sometimes recycling can go too far.

GU

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 214
Re: Jilted Biglaw Associate Sues Ex-Fiancee Over $100K Engagement Ring
« Reply #30 on: September 28, 2018, 11:18:39 AM »
An engagement ring used to be a green light for sexual relations. If the guy broke it off after he got what he wanted, the woman would keep the ring as compensation for taking her virginity and tarnishing her reputation.

These considerations are obviously not important any longer. Most couples are sexually active prior to engagement, most women are not virgins prior to their engagement, and there are very few negative reputational consequences for female dalliances these days. In today’s world, the guy should always get the ring back if there’s no marriage.

Calling the ring a gift is being willfully obtuse. The ring was in exchange for marriage, and in exchange for her not sleeping with anyone else. Once those don’t occur, the deal is off and the ring should be returned. An engagement ring is as much a “gift” as my salary is a “gift” from my employer.

Slee_stack

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 853
Re: Jilted Biglaw Associate Sues Ex-Fiancee Over $100K Engagement Ring
« Reply #31 on: September 28, 2018, 11:23:19 AM »
It happened to my sister. She was proposed to by her boyfriend with a ring, that he bought and had from a previous broken engagement. Sometimes recycling can go too far.
This feeds into the materialistic consumer sentiment and props up a disgusting diamond industry though.

Are diamonds now use once?  Debeers is undoubtedly frothing at the mouth about the public possibly believing diamonds being single use!

I would think a mustachian person would only ever want a recycled diamond...if they even wanted a diamond at all.   

The whole diamond giving thing seems extremely sexist to me anyway.  Why do we hang on to something like this while making progress towards equal rights elsewhere?

A commitment from both towards a shared better future should always be the 'gift'.

I'm a red panda

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 7279
  • Location: United States
Re: Jilted Biglaw Associate Sues Ex-Fiancee Over $100K Engagement Ring
« Reply #32 on: September 28, 2018, 11:29:58 AM »
Man, am I the only person who grew up firmly entrenched in the "no sex before marriage" culture (even though everyone ignored it?)

I've never heard ANYONE say it's OK to have sex once you get a ring.  And I was very much in the "ring by spring" culture in my university- there was no point in graduating if you weren't getting married.

PoutineLover

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 988
Re: Jilted Biglaw Associate Sues Ex-Fiancee Over $100K Engagement Ring
« Reply #33 on: September 28, 2018, 11:35:51 AM »
I don't think diamonds need to be one use only. Nobody goes around proposing over and over for the hell of it. I think an engagement is almost a trial period, to decide if you for sure want to go through with the marriage. Best to end it if it's not working out rather than get divorced later. And for me it has nothing to do with sex, that ship has long sailed. Plenty of couples get engaged after living together, and I'm sure they don't have separate bedrooms.
But I do think the reason for the breakup is relevant to who keeps the ring. If one partner cheated, the other should get the ring. If it's mutual, the one who bought the ring should keep it. If there's abuse, I think the abused person would be justified in keeping it. Relationships aren't black and white, so I can imagine that in certain situations the ownership of the ring could be in question. In the case presented I think the guy should get the ring back, plus damages.

Maenad

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 339
  • Location: Minneapolis 'burbs
Re: Jilted Biglaw Associate Sues Ex-Fiancee Over $100K Engagement Ring
« Reply #34 on: September 28, 2018, 11:52:15 AM »
If he doesn't get the ring back, he should think of it as the best investment he has ever made.  Not marrying her probably saved him a couple million over his lifetime, not counting the emotional and mental costs.  So his $100k will have a great ROI if he learns to not give in to gold diggers.

This is where I am. $100K to not be trapped in a marriage with the kind of woman who'll leave rotten meat in a closed, turned-off refrigerator for 2 months? Cheap at twice the price.

He should go to a DC MMM Meetup - he'll find women that don't particularly care about big rings.

obstinate

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 844
Re: Jilted Biglaw Associate Sues Ex-Fiancee Over $100K Engagement Ring
« Reply #35 on: September 28, 2018, 12:29:47 PM »
If he doesn't get the ring back, he should think of it as the best investment he has ever made.
I can think of a better investment. "Nah, honey, I think $2,000 is plenty. We could save the rest for retirement!" You can find out whether you should part ways with the person for free rather than dropping six figures to find out if they're a bad fit.

maizeman

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 2999
Re: Jilted Biglaw Associate Sues Ex-Fiancee Over $100K Engagement Ring
« Reply #36 on: September 28, 2018, 12:50:22 PM »
Man, am I the only person who grew up firmly entrenched in the "no sex before marriage" culture (even though everyone ignored it?)

I've never heard ANYONE say it's OK to have sex once you get a ring.  And I was very much in the "ring by spring" culture in my university- there was no point in graduating if you weren't getting married.

Yes, this idea is completely need to me as well. I've heard no sex before marriage. I've heard sex completely independent of marriage. Until this thread I'd never heard "no sex before engagement."

AMandM

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 635
Re: Jilted Biglaw Associate Sues Ex-Fiancee Over $100K Engagement Ring
« Reply #37 on: September 28, 2018, 12:59:56 PM »
Man, am I the only person who grew up firmly entrenched in the "no sex before marriage" culture (even though everyone ignored it?)

I've never heard ANYONE say it's OK to have sex once you get a ring.  And I was very much in the "ring by spring" culture in my university- there was no point in graduating if you weren't getting married.

I grew up in that culture, too, and in fact still live in it. Some people abide by the principle, some don't.  But definitely no-one ever said or says that getting engaged is the bright line.

mm1970

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 5967
Re: Jilted Biglaw Associate Sues Ex-Fiancee Over $100K Engagement Ring
« Reply #38 on: September 28, 2018, 01:27:34 PM »
It happened to my sister. She was proposed to by her boyfriend with a ring, that he bought and had from a previous broken engagement. Sometimes recycling can go too far.
This feeds into the materialistic consumer sentiment and props up a disgusting diamond industry though.

Are diamonds now use once?  Debeers is undoubtedly frothing at the mouth about the public possibly believing diamonds being single use!

I would think a mustachian person would only ever want a recycled diamond...if they even wanted a diamond at all.   

The whole diamond giving thing seems extremely sexist to me anyway.  Why do we hang on to something like this while making progress towards equal rights elsewhere?

A commitment from both towards a shared better future should always be the 'gift'.
I would think the "recycling goes too far" means more about the emotion and sentiment behind buying the ring, not the actual rock itself.

I assume that a ring has an emotional meaning behind it.  An attachment.  Chosen just for her, or something she chose for herself.  The weird thing is not reusing the diamond (my parents divorced when I was a teen, my mom's diamond became a necklace for me) - the weird thing is the emotions attached.

I have a diamond but if I could roll it back to re-do it all, I wouldn't have bothered.

Njdealguy

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 16
Re: Jilted Biglaw Associate Sues Ex-Fiancee Over $100K Engagement Ring
« Reply #39 on: September 28, 2018, 03:09:55 PM »
Had this guy went for lab created diamond rather than natural, he couldve met the girls specifications (since article didnt mention it had to be a natural stone) and kept it under his initial 40k budget.  For fun searched and saw this sample stone meeting all the parameters on brilliant earth for about 30k:

https://www.brilliantearth.com/lab-diamonds-search/view_detail/6087998/

OneStep

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 36
  • Location: KC Metro
Re: Jilted Biglaw Associate Sues Ex-Fiancee Over $100K Engagement Ring
« Reply #40 on: September 28, 2018, 05:09:30 PM »
I have recycled a diamond. I was engaged and when she cheated on me with her future ex husband I asked for the ring back and thankfully she returned it to me. When I was planning on asking my now wife to get married I had my cousin, a retired jeweler, reset the stone on a new ring. My wife knows it was the same diamond and has told me that she would have thought it a waste to not us the diamond for her ring. She doesn't wear it often as we both prefer the cheap $5 silicon rings that can be lost or broken and easily replaced. Her wedding ring lives in our fireproof safe.

partgypsy

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2424
Re: Jilted Biglaw Associate Sues Ex-Fiancee Over $100K Engagement Ring
« Reply #41 on: September 28, 2018, 07:54:33 PM »
In my sister's case it was a precious gemstone in the original setting. (They didn't get engaged). I have no problem re ycling gemstones (my mother's diamond in her engagement ring was a family stone). I just think some thought needs to be put into it.
« Last Edit: September 28, 2018, 08:25:40 PM by partgypsy »

MrsPete

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3521
Re: Jilted Biglaw Associate Sues Ex-Fiancee Over $100K Engagement Ring
« Reply #42 on: September 30, 2018, 08:19:42 PM »
A friend of mine just sent this to me yesterday. He worked with the guy at the law firm they are referencing. He said the guy was an interesting dude and it was pretty much the first girlfriend he had ever had.
You know, that's exactly what I thought when I saw the picture that accompanied the article.  Well, if "interesting" means socially awkward looking.  And that hair.  Might be the second worst hair in America.

As, despite it being totally untrue, it seems most people still seem to pretend that it is necessary to not have sex until marriage. You know, because religion.
Well, in addition to religion, if everyone waited until marriage, the numbers of STD cases and children born out of wedlock would plummet.  Those things would benefit society.

Ethically, why should a woman ever WANT to keep the engagement ring?
Exactly!  How could the ring ever be anything except a bad memory? 

Are diamonds now use once?  Debeers is undoubtedly frothing at the mouth about the public possibly believing diamonds being single use!
Diamonds aren't "one use", but I wouldn't want a ring my husband had purchased for another girl.  He'd have purchased that ring with intentions and plans of spending his life with another woman.  Even if the girl rejected him, he would have bought that ring with the intention of putting it on her hand.  I wouldn't want that recycled item -- it'd be too personal.  This isn't a perfect analogy, but it'd be a little bit like wearing her underwear -- too personal.  Rational?  Maybe not, but I stand by the answer. 

He could sell it and use the money towards a different ring. 
I'd be fine with a ring purchased used /previously worn by a stranger. 

I've never heard ANYONE say it's OK to have sex once you get a ring.  And I was very much in the "ring by spring" culture in my university- there was no point in graduating if you weren't getting married.
I've never heard that either.  I'm not saying it wasn't happening, just that it wasn't something people talked about.

penguintroopers

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 122
Re: Jilted Biglaw Associate Sues Ex-Fiancee Over $100K Engagement Ring
« Reply #43 on: September 30, 2018, 10:39:49 PM »
Man, am I the only person who grew up firmly entrenched in the "no sex before marriage" culture (even though everyone ignored it?)

I've never heard ANYONE say it's OK to have sex once you get a ring.  And I was very much in the "ring by spring" culture in my university- there was no point in graduating if you weren't getting married.

Yes, this idea is completely need to me as well. I've heard no sex before marriage. I've heard sex completely independent of marriage. Until this thread I'd never heard "no sex before engagement."

I also never heard of "sex now that we're engaged", and I'm about 80% sure I'm a red panda and I went to the same university (so no, you're not alone! :) )

Ditto in the "I have a diamond now, but would have done differently in the past" camp. Probably would have gone with ok-ing a synthetic diamond. Hubs didn't spend much and got a good deal on what he did buy, and I'm really happy with what he got anyway.

TheGrimSqueaker

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2046
  • Location: A desert wasteland, where none but the weird survive
  • www.theliveinlandlord.com
    • The Live-In Landlord
Re: Jilted Biglaw Associate Sues Ex-Fiancee Over $100K Engagement Ring
« Reply #44 on: September 30, 2018, 11:23:04 PM »
The assumption in my family has always been that it's none of a woman's business what her engagement ring looks like or how much it cost. It's assumed to be a family ring of some kind. But, since it's family property on the groom's side, it's in poor taste to keep it if the engagement doesn't work out. So far as I know we never adhered to the "broken engagement person as damaged good" concept but then again we're Slavic so the traditions are different.

MgoSam

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3637
  • Location: Minnesota
Re: Jilted Biglaw Associate Sues Ex-Fiancee Over $100K Engagement Ring
« Reply #45 on: October 01, 2018, 12:53:32 PM »
So I just ran into an old friend and remembered that he left his girlfriend/fiance over the cost of a wedding ring. He proposed to her and she accepted it but wanted a more expensive ring. He went shopping with her and took a look at them but the rings she wanted were all really expensive, way beyond what he could afford to spend. Apparently she made a comment about how he didn't love her enough and his response was to say, "You're right maybe I don't" and broke up with her.

From what I remember (this happened a year or so ago and I didn't want to bring it it up as it might be a painful memory) it wasn't so much about the ring cost, though that was a factor, but how it seemed like everything had to be the nicest (re; expensive) and it really made him question how much she actually cared about him.

I believe he's a lot happier being single than he was when he was with her.

erutio

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 266
Re: Jilted Biglaw Associate Sues Ex-Fiancee Over $100K Engagement Ring
« Reply #46 on: October 01, 2018, 02:44:11 PM »
So I just ran into an old friend and remembered that he left his girlfriend/fiance over the cost of a wedding ring. He proposed to her and she accepted it but wanted a more expensive ring. He went shopping with her and took a look at them but the rings she wanted were all really expensive, way beyond what he could afford to spend. Apparently she made a comment about how he didn't love her enough and his response was to say, "You're right maybe I don't" and broke up with her.

From what I remember (this happened a year or so ago and I didn't want to bring it it up as it might be a painful memory) it wasn't so much about the ring cost, though that was a factor, but how it seemed like everything had to be the nicest (re; expensive) and it really made him question how much she actually cared about him.

I believe he's a lot happier being single than he was when he was with her.

wow, sounds like your friend really dodged a bullet there.

tralfamadorian

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 993
Re: Jilted Biglaw Associate Sues Ex-Fiancee Over $100K Engagement Ring
« Reply #47 on: October 01, 2018, 02:59:47 PM »
Had this guy went for lab created diamond rather than natural, he couldve met the girls specifications (since article didnt mention it had to be a natural stone) and kept it under his initial 40k budget.  For fun searched and saw this sample stone meeting all the parameters on brilliant earth for about 30k:

https://www.brilliantearth.com/lab-diamonds-search/view_detail/6087998/

Close but not the same. She specified an old european cut, not a modern brillant. OEC of the size she wanted in the color- in particular- and clarity rating she wanted are exceedingly rare since they have not be made since the 1920s.

Presuming he gets it back, maybe 30-40% at auction and 50-60% at consignment. Poor guy. At least things fell apart before they got married or he would have been on the hook for alimony as well.

MgoSam

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3637
  • Location: Minnesota
Re: Jilted Biglaw Associate Sues Ex-Fiancee Over $100K Engagement Ring
« Reply #48 on: October 01, 2018, 03:29:49 PM »
So I just ran into an old friend and remembered that he left his girlfriend/fiance over the cost of a wedding ring. He proposed to her and she accepted it but wanted a more expensive ring. He went shopping with her and took a look at them but the rings she wanted were all really expensive, way beyond what he could afford to spend. Apparently she made a comment about how he didn't love her enough and his response was to say, "You're right maybe I don't" and broke up with her.

From what I remember (this happened a year or so ago and I didn't want to bring it it up as it might be a painful memory) it wasn't so much about the ring cost, though that was a factor, but how it seemed like everything had to be the nicest (re; expensive) and it really made him question how much she actually cared about him.

I believe he's a lot happier being single than he was when he was with her.

wow, sounds like your friend really dodged a bullet there.

I believe that was my comment to him when I first heard what happened (after telling him how sorry I was for the breakup). And yeah I believe he agrees.

It is sad but there are some people out there that are blind to the fact that their partner is largely interested in them due to their economic status.

MrsPete

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3521
Re: Jilted Biglaw Associate Sues Ex-Fiancee Over $100K Engagement Ring
« Reply #49 on: October 01, 2018, 04:17:23 PM »
The assumption in my family has always been that it's none of a woman's business what her engagement ring looks like or how much it cost.
I had no input on my engagement ring /expected to have no input on my engagement ring.  FYI: It's exactly what I would've chosen for myself. 

From what I remember (this happened a year or so ago and I didn't want to bring it it up as it might be a painful memory) it wasn't so much about the ring cost, though that was a factor, but how it seemed like everything had to be the nicest (re; expensive) and it really made him question how much she actually cared about him.
What I hear you saying is that the ring was the tipping point.  The ring was the moment he recognized the pattern and saw the light.