Author Topic: The 700 Mile Commute  (Read 10523 times)

gestalt162

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 34
  • Age: 11
  • Location: Buffalo, NY
  • Junior Mustachian
The 700 Mile Commute
« on: August 17, 2012, 09:04:15 AM »
http://www.usatoday.com/money/industries/travel/story/2012-08-16/Sour-economy-gives-rise-to-extreme-commuters/57099694/1

Article details the people who commute by plane, often only seeing their families on the weekends. Discusses the predictable family dysfunction that results. Also mentions the growing number of 90+ mile commutes.

grantmeaname

  • CM*MW 2023 Attendees
  • Walrus Stache
  • *
  • Posts: 5960
  • Age: 31
  • Location: Middle West
  • Cast me away from yesterday's things
Re: The 700 Mile Commute
« Reply #1 on: August 17, 2012, 09:11:32 AM »
Poor mathematical reasoning gives rise to extreme commuters, not a sour economy. Just saying.

JohnGalt

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 484
  • Age: 39
  • Location: TX
Re: The 700 Mile Commute
« Reply #2 on: August 17, 2012, 09:25:25 AM »
A couple years ago I did a similar commute for a couple months for a consulting gig - flying there Monday morning, flying home Friday evening.  Everything, including all of my meals, was expensed back to the client, but the experience was definitely not something I'd want to do long-term. 

Russ

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2211
  • Age: 32
  • Location: Boulder, CO
Re: The 700 Mile Commute
« Reply #3 on: August 17, 2012, 09:34:52 AM »
After helping a friend move from Ohio to Iowa, I took the bus back home. There was a 4 hour layover in Chicago and, after walking around the city a bit, I got to talking to some of the passengers. About half were commuters who rode the bus from Cincinnati or Columbus to Chicago Sunday evening, spent the week in a hotel or a second apartment, and went home on Fridays. That's two 6+ hour bus rides sucking up what's supposed to be your weekend! The whole deal just blew my mind. It's not a plane ticket, but $100 bus fare a week is still a lot, not to mention keeping a second home in one of the most expensive cities in the country.
« Last Edit: August 17, 2012, 07:52:27 PM by Russ »

strider3700

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 516
  • Location: northern BC
Re: The 700 Mile Commute
« Reply #4 on: August 17, 2012, 12:27:33 PM »
The multiday commutes are nothing new.

A few years back before he passed away I took my grandpa to dinner.  He told me about how his father would go and work  at a factory where my house was now standing  yet he lived in town about 30 km away.    This would have been about 1920.   Monday mornings he would get up at 2 or 3 am and would ride a bike to the factory.  He'd then stay there until 5:00 friday when he would ride back home for the weekend.  This arrangment lasted a few years until the factory exploded one night. It made gun powder.   He then took a job working in a coal mine closer to home but it was more dangerous and he had been trying to avoid it.   Sure enough in the 1930's he got caught in some cables and was pulled through a pulley system killing him instantly.  A short time later my grandpa lied about his age and signed up to the navy even though WW2 had started and he'd be in quite a lot of danger.  He figured it was better then going into the mines.   His boat was bombed while in harbour in the early 40's.  It cost him most of his hearing  and killed everyone aboard but him and 2 guys he rescued, and was later awarded metals for.   He still figured it was a better choice then working the mines.

Jamesqf

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 4038
Re: The 700 Mile Commute
« Reply #5 on: August 17, 2012, 12:47:43 PM »
Poor mathematical reasoning gives rise to extreme commuters, not a sour economy. Just saying.

Sometimes it's good mathematical reasoning.  As for instance when I used to work on a research project in San Jose, a 250 mile drive from here.  It was initially only supposed to last 6 months (though it got extended to nearly two years).  So I'd spend a week on-site, then a week telecommuting from home, for a not unusual average of about an hour commute per day.

So I could have sold, rented, or paid a caretaker for my place here, and bought/rented a place at absurdly high Silicon Valley prices.  (Which I would have wound up being stuck with after the crash.)  Or I could rent a cheap room for the few days I was there, and deduct/charge off all that cost.  The math worked out heavily in favor of the commute.

Of course a lot depends on whether you know the commute to be temporary going in.  If this was to have been a permanent position, of course I'd have moved.  Though it's highly unlikely I'd have taken it permanently, as I'd hate to live in Silicon Valley all the time.  It's only the weekends spent at home that made it tolerable.

grantmeaname

  • CM*MW 2023 Attendees
  • Walrus Stache
  • *
  • Posts: 5960
  • Age: 31
  • Location: Middle West
  • Cast me away from yesterday's things
Re: The 700 Mile Commute
« Reply #6 on: August 17, 2012, 12:56:16 PM »
I agree that it can make sense, and I didn't mean to state it as a categorical truth. I just think that in many cases people are accepting jobs and commutes not considering the value of their time and the cost of maintaining a vehicle as part of whether or not it's worth the money. They just think of whether or not they can live with the commute and the advertised wage.

Nudelkopf

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 897
  • Age: 32
  • Location: Australia
Re: The 700 Mile Commute
« Reply #7 on: August 17, 2012, 07:22:56 PM »
Fly-in-fly-out (FIFO). Half my family and friends have done this. The joy of growing up in a BOOMING mining town (like, mining in Australia is nuts)(NUTS!) but then the family wants to move. So the bloke continues his job in town, but FIFO.

My brother used to do 2-3months work, go home for a few weeks, then fly back out to his family (with 4 kids under 7, it was pretty hard). He's only 24 just now, too :P

It's made a lot of news in Australia, about ruining communities.
e.g. http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-05-28/four-corners-looks-at-fly-in-fly-out-workers/4036732
« Last Edit: August 17, 2012, 07:24:56 PM by Nudelkopf »

cdttmm

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 249
Re: The 700 Mile Commute
« Reply #8 on: August 18, 2012, 09:12:36 AM »
What I find annoying is that most of these jobs could probably easily be done by people from home, but there are still a bunch of companies where the policies don't allow for that option. So people are stuck with long distance commutes.

My partner and I both do the long distance commuting thing (by choice). We live in MA. He splits his time between working from home and working in NYC (170 miles away). I work from home about 80% of the time, but fly to Austin once a month for a 2-5 day stint in the office. If my boss required that I fly to Austin every week for work, I would quit.

We could both take jobs closer to home, but we like what we do and because we are FI we can opt out at any point. I think we would both be pretty miserable if we *had* to super commute because we needed the paycheck(s).

mindaugas

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 367
  • Location: Littleton, CO
    • Mike Says Meh
Re: The 700 Mile Commute
« Reply #9 on: August 21, 2012, 10:40:22 AM »
A lady in my office has horses and the least expensive place to live is 50 miles from here. Two hours each day gone to driving. It's sad, but PONIES! :P

When I first started working in Denver I lived in Colorado Springs about 70 miles south. I commuted 5 days a week for a year until wife and I had enough saved to move up here. I did that for $26k a year too. I'd say I was a silly kid, but I almost took a job in Longmont which would have been a 50 mile commute from where I live now. Fortunately I got another offer for a job 9 miles from me :) So at least I can understand why someone would commute.

Jamesqf

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 4038
Re: The 700 Mile Commute
« Reply #10 on: August 21, 2012, 12:43:10 PM »
A lady in my office has horses and the least expensive place to live is 50 miles from here. Two hours each day gone to driving. It's sad, but PONIES! :P

Well, it's all about making space for what's really important in life.  Two hours gone to driving, or 6-8 (24 minus work & sleep) gone to having to dwell in a city apartment?  If those were the only two choices, I'd take the driving.  Fortunately I can telecommute :-)

grantmeaname

  • CM*MW 2023 Attendees
  • Walrus Stache
  • *
  • Posts: 5960
  • Age: 31
  • Location: Middle West
  • Cast me away from yesterday's things
Re: The 700 Mile Commute
« Reply #11 on: August 21, 2012, 12:59:10 PM »
Two hours gone to driving, or 6-8 (24 minus work & sleep) gone to having to dwell in a city apartment?
You mention every third post that you don't like living in the city. We get it! We noticed! You're welcome to live by your values, and they're values that many here share and can respect, but do you have to diss cities every third time you post, even on totally unrelated topics?

Jamesqf

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 4038
Re: The 700 Mile Commute
« Reply #12 on: August 22, 2012, 12:19:22 AM »
...but do you have to diss cities every third time you post, even on totally unrelated topics?

Now how is it unrelated to point out that the woman under discussion is choosing what's important to her?  Isn't that really what this Mustachianism is all about, figuring out what's really important to you and devoting your resources to those things, rather than what society says you ought to have?  So if not spending money is of primary importance to you, you get a cheap place (possibly shared with other people to cut expenses even further) within walking/biking distance of your work.  If, on the other hand, you place a high value on having horses (which is hardly a mainstream consumerist thing), you make different choices.

JJ

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 117
  • Location: On the road, Australia
    • A Philosopher and A Businessman
Re: The 700 Mile Commute
« Reply #13 on: August 22, 2012, 03:37:02 AM »
Fly-in-fly-out (FIFO). Half my family and friends have done this. The joy of growing up in a BOOMING mining town (like, mining in Australia is nuts)(NUTS!) but then the family wants to move. So the bloke continues his job in town, but FIFO.

My brother used to do 2-3months work, go home for a few weeks, then fly back out to his family (with 4 kids under 7, it was pretty hard). He's only 24 just now, too :P

It's made a lot of news in Australia, about ruining communities.
e.g. http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-05-28/four-corners-looks-at-fly-in-fly-out-workers/4036732

Yep - 700 miles is nothing.  I often do the Brisbane-Perth leg (4 hours flying time - basically the breadth of Australia).  The front half of the cabin is full of hi-vis clothing and steel cap boots.  The guys transfer at Perth onto another two hour flight to the north-west of Australia, spend a couple of weeks there then come back the same way.  Given it costs $250K in rent per year to put a family in a house on one of those north-west mining towns, $50k pa on flights to fly the workers back and forth across the country and put them up in a $50k pa single person's accommodation is a bargain.  Funny thing is the higher levels of the frequent flyer programs are now full of a different demographic from usual - truck drivers, electricians, drillers etc.

mm1970

  • Senior Mustachian
  • ********
  • Posts: 10880
Re: The 700 Mile Commute
« Reply #14 on: August 31, 2012, 09:29:43 PM »
We have a bunch of people who do this at my company. In some cases, it's the excitement of being at a startup combined with family unwilling to move.

In other cases, they were unable to find jobs where they used to live, and can't sell their house.

econberkeley

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 105
Re: The 700 Mile Commute
« Reply #15 on: November 11, 2013, 11:29:08 AM »
Please see the article below about how so many people have no clue about calculating the real commuting cost.

http://www.cnbc.com/id/101155916

AlanStache

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3175
  • Age: 44
  • Location: South East Virginia
Re: The 700 Mile Commute
« Reply #16 on: November 11, 2013, 02:19:47 PM »
I worked with a NASA guy that drive in Sunday and left again Friday after work, the way the retirement system is setup it made sense for him to suck it up for a few years to get a significantly larger pay out in retirement.  He knew he wanted to retire ~200 miles away and his wife/kids wanted to be there now and found a good place to buy.  I would never do it but still if you go into with your eyes open I think it could work for a short time.

Jamesqf

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 4038
Re: The 700 Mile Commute
« Reply #17 on: November 11, 2013, 04:10:11 PM »
Please see the article below about how so many people have no clue about calculating the real commuting cost.

http://www.cnbc.com/id/101155916

I dunno...  Seems as though most of them have done a pretty good job of calculating the tradeoffs.  (Though my first thought was to wonder why on earth the IT guy couldn't telecommute.)  Especially if you have a family, and want to give them a decent quality of life even though you can't find a nearby job.


abhe8

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 491
Re: The 700 Mile Commute
« Reply #18 on: November 11, 2013, 04:19:47 PM »
my step mom has a FIFO job. she thinks its great, financially. she flys out mon am and back thurs even. works from home fri. gets all expenses reimbursed by her company (apartment, car service, food) but racks up a million FFMs in the process. BUT she does not like all the evenings away from her boys. but financially, she says its great.

SwordGuy

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 8955
  • Location: Fayetteville, NC
Re: The 700 Mile Commute
« Reply #19 on: November 11, 2013, 07:19:15 PM »
Being a long distance consultant with paid travel and expenses can be very lucrative.  My income went up $30,000 by hitting the road.  Whenever possible, I did the expenses on a per diem basis, both because it meant I didn't have to fiddle with the receipts and because I could make additional money that way.  I also took a 13 month stint out of the country on a similar arrangement.  That really rocked financially because I also avoided income tax on (circa) the first $90,000 of income.

If I had known about MMM principles back then I would already be financially independent....

Now, the 5 years on the road and the additional year overseas was brutal on family and friendships.  So while I can recommend it highly for financial reasons, it's not so much fun if you like being with your family.

mpbaker22

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1095
Re: The 700 Mile Commute
« Reply #20 on: November 11, 2013, 07:30:49 PM »
What I find annoying is that most of these jobs could probably easily be done by people from home, but there are still a bunch of companies where the policies don't allow for that option. So people are stuck with long distance commutes.

This.  A group on my team is flying out to California in a few weeks.  The work they're doing can be done entirely in our office (I should know, I do the same work with people who wok in the same city but still in a separate building).  Anyway, they're flying out to California to work for one day on this project.


A story highlighting what some others have said - There's a guy in my office that has been asked to work in Southern California for an entire year.  He's in his early 20s and single, so there isn't much of a downside.  Our company has offered him time and a half plus a $90 per diem the entire time he's out there.  Definitely a situation where you accept 99% of the time.

NumberJohnny5

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 780
Re: The 700 Mile Commute
« Reply #21 on: November 11, 2013, 10:18:12 PM »
Ok, maybe a bit off-topic...but how does one break into the FIFO scene? I hear there's tons of jobs in the mining industry here in Australia, but anytime I research it, I find what seems to be a lot of sham companies (ones that offer to sell the information, or classes that are "guaranteed" to give you the certs you need in just a couple short weeks!). I have computer skills but no certs to back them up. Wouldn't even mind something like food service (people in mines need to eat too, right?). I'd just like to try it out for a bit and go from there.

englyn

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 422
Re: The 700 Mile Commute
« Reply #22 on: November 11, 2013, 10:33:48 PM »
Do you have experience in admin? They're often looking for that on mines. I know 2 people who got in that way through temp agencies.

NumberJohnny5

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 780
Re: The 700 Mile Commute
« Reply #23 on: November 11, 2013, 11:27:57 PM »
Do you have experience in admin? They're often looking for that on mines. I know 2 people who got in that way through temp agencies.

Yeah, but nothing verifiable (my web hosting biz, which I guess is technically still operating since I have a couple customers that won't leave). Most of my experience is a result of me being bored and trying something new (I've setup several Asterisk systems, wife wasn't always too pleased when I was tinkering with the phones). As far as on the server side, I'd have to say most of my experience is in Linux; I've looked into AD with Windows but haven't actually used it. I do have an MSDN subscription, so I could easily teach myself whatever was needed.

Wasn't kidding about not minding food service. I did KP duty in the Army (Reserves) and rather enjoyed it.

 

Wow, a phone plan for fifteen bucks!