Author Topic: Is your monster truck derailing your retirement plans?  (Read 3632 times)

facepalm

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Is your monster truck derailing your retirement plans?
« on: September 23, 2020, 01:51:53 PM »
hoping not 205:

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/americans-love-affair-with-pickup-trucks-might-be-derailing-their-retirement-plans-2020-09-23

As a soon to be (ex) truck owner, I got a chuckle out of this. But in the first case, they have way more going on than just a truck payment.


(and I paid cash for my soon-to-be-ex-truck)


Syonyk

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Re: Is your monster truck derailing your retirement plans?
« Reply #2 on: September 23, 2020, 02:57:36 PM »
I appreciate other people taking the hit so you can get an older truck, with fairly few miles, for far cheaper than new.

Drive it little enough, and it either holds value or appreciates over time.  Not too many 115k mile OBS F350s around!

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Re: Is your monster truck derailing your retirement plans?
« Reply #3 on: September 24, 2020, 01:25:11 PM »
I appreciate other people taking the hit so you can get an older truck, with fairly few miles, for far cheaper than new.

Drive it little enough, and it either holds value or appreciates over time.  Not too many 115k mile OBS F350s around!

That's how I ended up with my truck. 2017 Chevy Colorado. Every time I check the KBB value, it has gone up a little bit. Since I don't drive all that much (5K a year) it's probably cheaper to let it sit than look for a more fuel efficient vehicle.

And the payments people make are crazy. Pricing a "reasonably" (mid level) trim on a Chevy Silverado results in a 45-50K truck. BUT the trucks I see on the road around here are more like 70K trucks. For many, that is a year's salary.  $600 payment. Sigh.

(And nice score on the F350. One of my favorite trucks!)

moof

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Re: Is your monster truck derailing your retirement plans?
« Reply #4 on: September 24, 2020, 08:29:24 PM »
Ditched my Toyota Tundra several years back.  I miss it every few months, then I remember the 15 mpg it got.  Tires were pricey too.  Dumb thing ate itís own transmission at only 125k miles.  Never buying another truck.

Now Iím hooked on N+1 bikes.

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Re: Is your monster truck derailing your retirement plans?
« Reply #5 on: September 24, 2020, 08:37:01 PM »
Ditched my Toyota Tundra several years back.  I miss it every few months, then I remember the 15 mpg it got.  Tires were pricey too.  Dumb thing ate itís own transmission at only 125k miles.  Never buying another truck.

Now Iím hooked on N+1 bikes.

Buddy has one. Nothing like the old (pre 2000) Tacomas, which would run forever.

What is an N+1 bike?

moof

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Re: Is your monster truck derailing your retirement plans?
« Reply #6 on: September 24, 2020, 11:51:31 PM »
The correct number of bicycles to own is N+1, where N is how many you currently have.  Luckily it is much cheaper to accumulate bicycles than a stable of monster trucks.

Gone Fishing

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Re: Is your monster truck derailing your retirement plans?
« Reply #7 on: September 25, 2020, 04:24:46 AM »
Dad had a coworker that drove a newish monster truck on an obscenely long commute.  Dad did the math for him which revealed he was spending HALF of his salary on the truck and related expenses. Made no difference.  Truck fetishes are commonplace in my rural area.  99% of the time I am tailgated it is a dude in a truck.  Certainly an ego/personality disorder of some kind.

2sk22

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Re: Is your monster truck derailing your retirement plans?
« Reply #8 on: September 25, 2020, 05:19:13 AM »
The Author Ben Carlson (along with Micheal Batnick) has a fantastic podcast called Animal Spirits  that I can recommend highly. Excellent financial advice.

bbqbonelesswing

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Re: Is your monster truck derailing your retirement plans?
« Reply #9 on: September 25, 2020, 07:29:00 AM »
The truck payments might seem bad enough on their own, but often they are just the tip of the iceberg when the truck is used to haul around boats, ATVs, and other big boy toys.

DadJokes

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Re: Is your monster truck derailing your retirement plans?
« Reply #10 on: September 25, 2020, 08:16:09 AM »
The truck payments might seem bad enough on their own, but often they are just the tip of the iceberg when the truck is used to haul around boats, ATVs, and other big boy toys.

My father falls into that category.

In the last 12 months, he:
got a used (looks really nice from picture) truck
got a new motorcycle
had his income cut effectively in half by the pandemic (not sure if it's recovered or not)
-got forbearance on his mortgage as a result
got an RV

bbqbonelesswing

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Re: Is your monster truck derailing your retirement plans?
« Reply #11 on: September 25, 2020, 12:10:46 PM »
The truck payments might seem bad enough on their own, but often they are just the tip of the iceberg when the truck is used to haul around boats, ATVs, and other big boy toys.

My father falls into that category.

In the last 12 months, he:
got a used (looks really nice from picture) truck
got a new motorcycle
had his income cut effectively in half by the pandemic (not sure if it's recovered or not)
-got forbearance on his mortgage as a result
got an RV

Sounds like he's having a fun year!

martyconlonontherun

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Re: Is your monster truck derailing your retirement plans?
« Reply #12 on: September 25, 2020, 12:38:36 PM »
The Author Ben Carlson (along with Micheal Batnick) has a fantastic podcast called Animal Spirits  that I can recommend highly. Excellent financial advice.
I really connect with them. I'm a mid-western guy with the same mindset as ben with the oddly excited manner of batnick. I pretty much agree with them on everything from NBA to political viewpoints.

martyconlonontherun

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Re: Is your monster truck derailing your retirement plans?
« Reply #13 on: September 25, 2020, 12:52:04 PM »
" Her husband traded in his Ford F-150 in August for a lower-cost car and reduced his original monthly payment of $820 by about $100, "
We don't have the details on age of vehicles/miles/quality, but this is why i kind of hate the Ramnsey advice of sell your expensive car. There's a lot of friction that causes transaction costs and the juice may not be worth the squeeze. He made this huge sacrifice that is saving $1k per year and probably convinced himself to do for a few years and then will get a new truck. I almost wonder if he is better off recognizing his dumb purchase, recognizing he will have to keep it until it dies, and recognize he needs to make other sacrifices (or use the truck for odd jobs) to make up the extra couple hundred a month.

Just seems short sited to trade in and pay the dealer 10% of the car value (just throwing out $2k of dealer fees between either profit on the car or low ball of trade-in on a $20k car going back).

Syonyk

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Re: Is your monster truck derailing your retirement plans?
« Reply #14 on: September 25, 2020, 07:35:46 PM »
That's how I ended up with my truck. 2017 Chevy Colorado. Every time I check the KBB value, it has gone up a little bit. Since I don't drive all that much (5K a year) it's probably cheaper to let it sit than look for a more fuel efficient vehicle.

At 5k mi/yr, depending on how many miles are empty, you might benefit from a more fuel efficient vehicle, but only if most of those 5k miles are empty.

Quote
(And nice score on the F350. One of my favorite trucks!)

Thanks, I like it!  7.3, pre-DPF, and it'll do just about anything a modern truck will do as long as I don't mind spending a bit more time at it.  The ride is an awful lot worse, though.  Leaf springs around vs coils up front makes a huge difference, and there are plenty of roads with just weird resonances with that suspension.  Doesn't bother me much, but in 40 years, I might be sick of it.  Put some coils up front or something (it's apparently not that hard a swap).  But I figure as long as I take care of things, the value is level to increasing over time.

99% of the time I am tailgated it is a dude in a truck.

At least out here, that sort of behavior is almost always someone in a Dodge.  It's not 100% true, but most of the work trucks I see are GMC or Ford, personal trucks driven by not-goofballs tend to be Ford or Chevy, and while there are some reasonable Dodge owners, the majority of the "Yeah, you're being a doofus today..." trucks are Dodge.  Probably because they're cheap...

...but this is why i kind of hate the Ramnsey advice of sell your expensive car. There's a lot of friction that causes transaction costs and the juice may not be worth the squeeze.

Plus the always-present "Oooh, new owner, so, I need this part, that part, and the other part!" thing used vehicles tend to do.

Unless you're saving a huge amount, I'd generally agree as well.  The vehicle you know beats the vehicle someone else wants rid of in almost all cases.

BTDretire

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Re: Is your monster truck derailing your retirement plans?
« Reply #15 on: September 26, 2020, 05:40:58 AM »
" Her husband traded in his Ford F-150 in August for a lower-cost car and reduced his original monthly payment of $820 by about $100, "
 He made this huge sacrifice that is saving $1k per year

 I have to wonder if he went deeper in debt to save that $1k per year in payments?

Gone Fishing

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Re: Is your monster truck derailing your retirement plans?
« Reply #16 on: September 26, 2020, 04:53:39 PM »
" Her husband traded in his Ford F-150 in August for a lower-cost car and reduced his original monthly payment of $820 by about $100, "
 He made this huge sacrifice that is saving $1k per year

 I have to wonder if he went deeper in debt to save that $1k per year in payments?

That's what gap insuarance is for!

TempusFugit

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Re: Is your monster truck derailing your retirement plans?
« Reply #17 on: September 26, 2020, 05:27:49 PM »
It is pretty amazing but of course the general foolishness isn't limited to expensive trucks, unfortunately. I see so many people in the professional world who buy the Mercedes or the A6 Audi or the 5-series BMW when they haven't even been out of college for more than a few years but, hey, they can "afford" the payments so they can obviously afford the car, right?  They can worry about maxing out the 401k in a few years. 

Same goes for the 4000 Sq Ft home for a family of 3 or 4.   They were able to get the mortgage, so obviously they can afford it, right? 

Heck, same goes for the 40K wedding or the 5K engagement ring. 

It is still a free country (currently) so people can make their own choices, but it does come around to affecting the rest of us when government has to step in and support so many people who never set aside anything for a rainy day let alone retirement.

However, as with so many complaints / problems / issues we face as a society, it kind of boils down to human nature.  People being people and doing what people do.  We can rage against the stupidity but it is what it is and will always be so.  You can't logic people out of being affected by a multi-billion dollar industry (marketing) that uses the latest in behavioral science to leverage the inherent desires we all have to fit in or impress or just try to make ourselves feel better in the face of loneliness or disappointment or whatever. 


RainyDay

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Re: Is your monster truck derailing your retirement plans?
« Reply #18 on: September 29, 2020, 06:22:07 AM »
In the case of the Texas couple, it wasn't JUST the truck that was killing them financially.  They had FOUR car payments/leases!  I assume that was for just the two of them.  Who the hell needs four cars when you're suffering financially?? 

I live in a very urban area (county population over 1 million) and there are a ton of pick-ups and large SUVs here.  I now drive an older Prius and love to imagine dollar bills flying out those truck tailpipes as I follow them down the road.

dignam

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Re: Is your monster truck derailing your retirement plans?
« Reply #19 on: September 29, 2020, 06:53:09 AM »
I live in a relatively urban area, but the amount of sparkling, huge, fancy trucks with no signs of actual use (towing/hauling anything, nor scratches or dirt) is laughable.  I get wanting 4x4/AWD here as the weather is crap in the winter, but most don't need something that massive.  Many of the trucks I see would not fit in a standard two car garage.

But as was said, you can't "convince" people to change decisions they are making based on emotion/keeping up an image/whatever.  Perception is reality I suppose. 

facepalm

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Re: Is your monster truck derailing your retirement plans?
« Reply #20 on: October 02, 2020, 09:35:50 PM »
That's how I ended up with my truck. 2017 Chevy Colorado. Every time I check the KBB value, it has gone up a little bit. Since I don't drive all that much (5K a year) it's probably cheaper to let it sit than look for a more fuel efficient vehicle.

At 5k mi/yr, depending on how many miles are empty, you might benefit from a more fuel efficient vehicle, but only if most of those 5k miles are empty.



Empty? as in unloaded, or single occupant?

I created a ten year total cost of ownership/acquisition cost spreadsheet comparing the Colo with more fuel efficient, newer vehicles. The Colorado comes out on top every time (because it is paid for and I have no acquisition cost). Now if I raise the price of gas and drive more miles, other vehicles start to make more sense. But I'm averaging 22 mpg in mixed driving (with the v-6) and see 28-30 on longer drives.

However, if I just sold for cash and bought a shitbox doubtless I would save money.

But I have run into a problem. The reason I bought the truck in the first places is because of my height. I'm 6'3" and typically weigh 250 or so. I can't fit in most small cars or sedans. For a larger driver, most small cars fail in at least one dimension: headroom, legroom, and shoulder room. very few cars have all three. SUV's do--but I have a truck, so . . . .no point. I can possibly fit in a larger sedan (like the Avalon or the Impala)




« Last Edit: October 02, 2020, 09:47:39 PM by facepalm »

Syonyk

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Re: Is your monster truck derailing your retirement plans?
« Reply #21 on: October 02, 2020, 09:46:09 PM »
Sure, but if you have to rent a truck...

I consider "empty" miles for my truck to be "miles in which I'm not using the capability of the truck at some point on the trip."  I try to keep this down as low as possible, though it's certainly far from zero - taking the truck into town a few times a year with just me because it's pouring down rain is cheaper than buying another car to run a few times a year.

Your fuel economy is an awful lot better than mine, though.  I get about 10 towing, 12 normal, 14 highway, unless I'm trying to keep up with traffic, then 12 highway.  Not exactly amazing, but on the flip side, I've got an 8' bed and a towing capacity of "yes," at least for my needs.

facepalm

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Re: Is your monster truck derailing your retirement plans?
« Reply #22 on: October 02, 2020, 09:50:44 PM »
Sure, but if you have to rent a truck...

I consider "empty" miles for my truck to be "miles in which I'm not using the capability of the truck at some point on the trip."  I try to keep this down as low as possible, though it's certainly far from zero - taking the truck into town a few times a year with just me because it's pouring down rain is cheaper than buying another car to run a few times a year.

Your fuel economy is an awful lot better than mine, though.  I get about 10 towing, 12 normal, 14 highway, unless I'm trying to keep up with traffic, then 12 highway.  Not exactly amazing, but on the flip side, I've got an 8' bed and a towing capacity of "yes," at least for my needs.

Gotcha. I only haul maybe 5% of the time. Dump runs now, but three months ago I moved an entire 2 bedroom house with just the truck with it's 6 foot bed. I used one tank of gas. Convenient. And there are times when the extra space does come in handy. So 10% of the time it is loaded. Still not a great number.

« Last Edit: October 02, 2020, 10:02:01 PM by facepalm »

Just Joe

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Re: Is your monster truck derailing your retirement plans?
« Reply #23 on: October 06, 2020, 01:31:12 PM »
Sure, but if you have to rent a truck...

I consider "empty" miles for my truck to be "miles in which I'm not using the capability of the truck at some point on the trip."  I try to keep this down as low as possible, though it's certainly far from zero - taking the truck into town a few times a year with just me because it's pouring down rain is cheaper than buying another car to run a few times a year.

Your fuel economy is an awful lot better than mine, though.  I get about 10 towing, 12 normal, 14 highway, unless I'm trying to keep up with traffic, then 12 highway.  Not exactly amazing, but on the flip side, I've got an 8' bed and a towing capacity of "yes," at least for my needs.

Buy a used Terrastar International pickup. 10ft bed, 10,000 lbs empty, seating for six, absolutely enormous. Fuel economy? Similar to your normal pickup truck.

I can't figure out whether that means the big truck is getting excellent fuel economy for its size or the normal pickup trucks out there are getting terrible fuel economy. I know someone with one and I have driven it on long trips towing a 24ft cargo trailer so I can vouch for the MPG first hand.  In reality it rides rough and its quite noisy inside.

JLee

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Re: Is your monster truck derailing your retirement plans?
« Reply #24 on: October 06, 2020, 01:36:15 PM »
Sure, but if you have to rent a truck...

I consider "empty" miles for my truck to be "miles in which I'm not using the capability of the truck at some point on the trip."  I try to keep this down as low as possible, though it's certainly far from zero - taking the truck into town a few times a year with just me because it's pouring down rain is cheaper than buying another car to run a few times a year.

Your fuel economy is an awful lot better than mine, though.  I get about 10 towing, 12 normal, 14 highway, unless I'm trying to keep up with traffic, then 12 highway.  Not exactly amazing, but on the flip side, I've got an 8' bed and a towing capacity of "yes," at least for my needs.

Buy a used Terrastar International pickup. 10ft bed, 10,000 lbs empty, seating for six, absolutely enormous. Fuel economy? Similar to your normal pickup truck.

I can't figure out whether that means the big truck is getting excellent fuel economy for its size or the normal pickup trucks out there are getting terrible fuel economy. I know someone with one and I have driven it on long trips towing a 24ft cargo trailer so I can vouch for the MPG first hand.  In reality it rides rough and its quite noisy inside.
Diesel trucks in general get far superior fuel economy vs gas trucks - diesel fuel contains ~15% more energy by volume.

Chris22

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Re: Is your monster truck derailing your retirement plans?
« Reply #25 on: October 08, 2020, 01:19:15 PM »
Sure, but if you have to rent a truck...

I consider "empty" miles for my truck to be "miles in which I'm not using the capability of the truck at some point on the trip."  I try to keep this down as low as possible, though it's certainly far from zero - taking the truck into town a few times a year with just me because it's pouring down rain is cheaper than buying another car to run a few times a year.

Your fuel economy is an awful lot better than mine, though.  I get about 10 towing, 12 normal, 14 highway, unless I'm trying to keep up with traffic, then 12 highway.  Not exactly amazing, but on the flip side, I've got an 8' bed and a towing capacity of "yes," at least for my needs.

Buy a used Terrastar International pickup. 10ft bed, 10,000 lbs empty, seating for six, absolutely enormous. Fuel economy? Similar to your normal pickup truck.

I can't figure out whether that means the big truck is getting excellent fuel economy for its size or the normal pickup trucks out there are getting terrible fuel economy. I know someone with one and I have driven it on long trips towing a 24ft cargo trailer so I can vouch for the MPG first hand.  In reality it rides rough and its quite noisy inside.
Diesel trucks in general get far superior fuel economy vs gas trucks - diesel fuel contains ~15% more energy by volume.

Diesel trucks are generally much more expensive to acquire (plus you canít, until now/soon, get a 1500 in diesel) and diesel costs more than gas.  Diesel trucks do generally sell used for more so there is some recapture at the end.

If you need diesel itís great, but the payback is usually years in the future.

Fishindude

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Re: Is your monster truck derailing your retirement plans?
« Reply #26 on: October 08, 2020, 01:26:06 PM »
I've driven a late model full size 4wd truck for decades, but we pay cash for them and all of our stuff is paid for.
If you take care of the darned things, you can get 250,000 miles out of them with very little repair expenses beyond tires and routine maintenance.
 
Lot's of 150,000 mile, nice looking pickups out there than can be purchased much cheaper and still do everything a new one does.  Save up and buy one of these cash, and you can do everything your buddy does without the big fat payments.

JLee

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Re: Is your monster truck derailing your retirement plans?
« Reply #27 on: October 08, 2020, 01:30:26 PM »
Sure, but if you have to rent a truck...

I consider "empty" miles for my truck to be "miles in which I'm not using the capability of the truck at some point on the trip."  I try to keep this down as low as possible, though it's certainly far from zero - taking the truck into town a few times a year with just me because it's pouring down rain is cheaper than buying another car to run a few times a year.

Your fuel economy is an awful lot better than mine, though.  I get about 10 towing, 12 normal, 14 highway, unless I'm trying to keep up with traffic, then 12 highway.  Not exactly amazing, but on the flip side, I've got an 8' bed and a towing capacity of "yes," at least for my needs.

Buy a used Terrastar International pickup. 10ft bed, 10,000 lbs empty, seating for six, absolutely enormous. Fuel economy? Similar to your normal pickup truck.

I can't figure out whether that means the big truck is getting excellent fuel economy for its size or the normal pickup trucks out there are getting terrible fuel economy. I know someone with one and I have driven it on long trips towing a 24ft cargo trailer so I can vouch for the MPG first hand.  In reality it rides rough and its quite noisy inside.
Diesel trucks in general get far superior fuel economy vs gas trucks - diesel fuel contains ~15% more energy by volume.

Diesel trucks are generally much more expensive to acquire (plus you canít, until now/soon, get a 1500 in diesel) and diesel costs more than gas.  Diesel trucks do generally sell used for more so there is some recapture at the end.

If you need diesel itís great, but the payback is usually years in the future.

Oh absolutely - just showing some reasoning behind why a large International truck doesn't get as poor mileage as might be expected.

Syonyk

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Re: Is your monster truck derailing your retirement plans?
« Reply #28 on: October 10, 2020, 08:32:31 PM »
Buy a used Terrastar International pickup. 10ft bed, 10,000 lbs empty, seating for six, absolutely enormous. Fuel economy? Similar to your normal pickup truck.

I'm good.  Don't need seating for 6, don't need... one of those.

Quote
I can't figure out whether that means the big truck is getting excellent fuel economy for its size or the normal pickup trucks out there are getting terrible fuel economy. I know someone with one and I have driven it on long trips towing a 24ft cargo trailer so I can vouch for the MPG first hand.  In reality it rides rough and its quite noisy inside.

My truck is 23 years old, newer ones are quite a bit better on fuel.  I don't put enough miles on mine to justify a newer one, and the newer ones that are better on fuel won't tow the stuff mine will.  Which, admittedly, is less of a concern lately - the "10k lb" trailer (we didn't weigh it, didn't want to know, and got uprated tires for it) I was towing every few weeks got replaced with a shipping container at the school our church meets at, and the flatbed I've been knocking around with is probably 2500 empty.  Yeah, it rides like a truck.  I don't care to have a truck that rides like a car.  If I want the ride of a car, I take a car.

facepalm

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Re: Is your monster truck derailing your retirement plans?
« Reply #29 on: October 10, 2020, 10:54:07 PM »
I've driven a late model full size 4wd truck for decades, but we pay cash for them and all of our stuff is paid for.
If you take care of the darned things, you can get 250,000 miles out of them with very little repair expenses beyond tires and routine maintenance.
 
Lot's of 150,000 mile, nice looking pickups out there than can be purchased much cheaper and still do everything a new one does.  Save up and buy one of these cash, and you can do everything your buddy does without the big fat payments.

Totally agree. I think if I had to do it over again I'd look for the last model year of the F250 diesel, 1997 vintage. My nephew had the gas version and it was a beast. We drove them at work and they were unkillable.

And I did end up getting rid of the Colorado and slotting into a Honda Fit. The thing is a blast to drive.  The Colorado had the vibrating transmission at 2k rpm issue, which was either going to be just a fluid/filter change ($500) or a torque converter. Thing is, I don't think Chevy really knows what is wrong with that transmission. So the next truck will be something older and less over-engineered. And full sized.

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Re: Is your monster truck derailing your retirement plans?
« Reply #30 on: October 11, 2020, 12:04:29 AM »
Buy a used Terrastar International pickup. 10ft bed, 10,000 lbs empty, seating for six, absolutely enormous. Fuel economy? Similar to your normal pickup truck.

I'm good.  Don't need seating for 6, don't need... one of those.

Quote
I can't figure out whether that means the big truck is getting excellent fuel economy for its size or the normal pickup trucks out there are getting terrible fuel economy. I know someone with one and I have driven it on long trips towing a 24ft cargo trailer so I can vouch for the MPG first hand.  In reality it rides rough and its quite noisy inside.

My truck is 23 years old, newer ones are quite a bit better on fuel.  I don't put enough miles on mine to justify a newer one, and the newer ones that are better on fuel won't tow the stuff mine will.  Which, admittedly, is less of a concern lately - the "10k lb" trailer (we didn't weigh it, didn't want to know, and got uprated tires for it) I was towing every few weeks got replaced with a shipping container at the school our church meets at, and the flatbed I've been knocking around with is probably 2500 empty.  Yeah, it rides like a truck.  I don't care to have a truck that rides like a car.  If I want the ride of a car, I take a car.

Newer trucks won't tow things your 23 year old truck will? Care to elaborate?

Syonyk

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Re: Is your monster truck derailing your retirement plans?
« Reply #31 on: October 11, 2020, 01:03:52 PM »
Newer trucks won't tow things your 23 year old truck will? Care to elaborate?

Read what I wrote.

Quote
...and the newer ones that are better on fuel won't tow the stuff mine will.

I can get a newer truck that will tow 10k+, but it's not going to be that significant an improvement on fuel burn over mine, and will be a lot more expensive in the deal, with plenty of things my truck doesn't have that can fail (I'll gesture in the direction of modern diesel emissions systems and high pressure common rail injection systems).  A new truck that gets substantially better fuel economy isn't something I'd want to tow heavy with.  It would work for some of my uses, but not all of them.  And I just like my 8' bed.  I don't have to bother with getting a trailer out for most stuff - only when I'm moving things that are more than about 12' long do I bother with a trailer.  Shorter stuff, toss in, flag it if it's 12', and call it good.

Newer trucks that can both tow what I care about towing and get substantially better fuel economy cost enough that it would make no sense whatsoever.  My truck can do just about anything you'd want to do with a newer $70k truck.  It'll probably take me longer, I might burn a bit more fuel, and the ride is worse (though it improves nicely when loaded).  I just spent a fraction of what a new truck costs to do all that.  I simply don't burn enough fuel to make it worth upgrading, and that I have a truck that can handle just about anything we need means that the car we use for general transport can be a smaller, quite efficient PHEV (1st gen Volt) that uses nearly no gas to run us around.

In any case, back to your regularly scheduled truck bashing, I suppose.

MilesTeg

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Re: Is your monster truck derailing your retirement plans?
« Reply #32 on: October 11, 2020, 10:07:44 PM »
Newer trucks won't tow things your 23 year old truck will? Care to elaborate?

Read what I wrote.

Quote
...and the newer ones that are better on fuel won't tow the stuff mine will.

I can get a newer truck that will tow 10k+, but it's not going to be that significant an improvement on fuel burn over mine, and will be a lot more expensive in the deal, with plenty of things my truck doesn't have that can fail (I'll gesture in the direction of modern diesel emissions systems and high pressure common rail injection systems).  A new truck that gets substantially better fuel economy isn't something I'd want to tow heavy with.  It would work for some of my uses, but not all of them.  And I just like my 8' bed.  I don't have to bother with getting a trailer out for most stuff - only when I'm moving things that are more than about 12' long do I bother with a trailer.  Shorter stuff, toss in, flag it if it's 12', and call it good.

Newer trucks that can both tow what I care about towing and get substantially better fuel economy cost enough that it would make no sense whatsoever.  My truck can do just about anything you'd want to do with a newer $70k truck.  It'll probably take me longer, I might burn a bit more fuel, and the ride is worse (though it improves nicely when loaded).  I just spent a fraction of what a new truck costs to do all that.  I simply don't burn enough fuel to make it worth upgrading, and that I have a truck that can handle just about anything we need means that the car we use for general transport can be a smaller, quite efficient PHEV (1st gen Volt) that uses nearly no gas to run us around.

In any case, back to your regularly scheduled truck bashing, I suppose.

Hey bud, I ain't bashing you or your truck or your (good) financial decision to keep it. I'm just disagreeing with the notion that a modern truck can't tow what a 23 year old truck could with better efficiency.

Every class of truck is more capable and more efficient than 23 years ago, hands down. Modern engines get much more power out of reduced displacement, regardless of whether they are gas or diesel. Toss in other efficiencies, like AL bodies, much better transmissions, etc.

As just one example, A Ford F-150 with a 3.5 V6 EB 2x4/8' can to over 10k (Ford claims up to 13k, lol) and has an EPA rating of 17/23, while the 3.0 Diesel (which can also tow that much) has an EPA of 21/29. Heck, you couldn't even get a diesel F-150 in 1997 (only the 250+ had a diesel option). And that's not a 70k truck, it's a ~32k truck (not that I am saying it changes your cost analysis at all).

A roughly equivalent 1997 F-150 (5.4 Gas V8) gets about 12/16 which was typical of that vintage for the higher end gas trucks. The 2019 2.5EB is about 42% more efficient. The diesel options are similarly more efficient as well.



Just Joe

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Re: Is your monster truck derailing your retirement plans?
« Reply #33 on: October 20, 2020, 10:33:41 AM »
The problem with a $70K truck is they are too pretty to use like a truck until they are a decade or more old.

That leads to towing trailers that aren't pretty and can get scuffed up. But then trailers are more complicated to work with, added cost, burn more fuel, etc.

Damn catch-22 so just buy the 1997 Ford and quit worrying... ;)

Rosy

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Re: Is your monster truck derailing your retirement plans?
« Reply #34 on: October 21, 2020, 09:41:58 AM »
The article only elaborates on debt payments. It doesn't specify if they max out their 401K or if they regularly invest in other retirement options.
No mention of a plan at all.
This couple's approach seems to be how much debt can you handle on a monthly basis - without taking any sort of emergency into consideration.
... and saving only $100 mo yet having to give up his truck for it seems like a bad decision.

It doesn't matter that the author hiccuped about the truck - there is plenty to question about their lack of a robust financial plan.
Unless you have a business or side business requiring a truck that brings in extra money every month - it is an extravagance.

Pick-ups are cool and I wouldn't mind owning one again, but hell, $820 mo pmt? The question is going forward can they continue to pay the mortgage and manage to live on 50% less income for a long time to come, if necessary?
Seems to me a better plan would have been to get rid of one of the other vehicles and share a ride (if they have two kids who each need transportation to work or school) - otherwise cut the crap and downsize to two cars, stat.

Our landscape guy proudly showed off his new custom leather seats - $750 each:)! a custom stereo system with eight speakers to name just two of his boy toy ' luxury improvements' - then went on to say how he has to watch every penny - hilarious...sad...

IMHO choosing a truck over retirement is downright ludicrous and sets one up for financial hardship. Even if you make plenty of money to easily cover all your monthly payments and debt you still need your own solid emergency bail out plan - the gov't certainly isn't it.

brandon4454

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Re: Is your monster truck derailing your retirement plans?
« Reply #35 on: October 22, 2020, 09:45:58 AM »
I had a 2000 Tacoma until 2016 when a woman in a Cadillac pulled in front of me and totaled it. My mother had bought the truck for me for 18k back in 2001. I decided I wanted another Tacoma because the first one treated me so well. I never had any repairs besides fixing a door handle for $30. It was a great truck.

The new Tacomas cost like $32000 for a slightly better than base model. I tried to justify a five hundred dollar car payment for a ton of years but I couldn't. I finally decided I needed a cheaper car. I found a 2013 Corolla with 30k miles on it for $14000 and have been driving it and will continue to drive it until it dies. I now have 58k miles on it.

I moved myself several times in the truck and I thought I would miss it and would always need a truck, but I don't. I wish they still made smaller trucks because everything has gotten so big and expensive. Since 2016 I have had to rent a truck once and I now move myself using a Uhaul.

BDWW

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Re: Is your monster truck derailing your retirement plans?
« Reply #36 on: October 22, 2020, 10:13:14 AM »


Hey bud, I ain't bashing you or your truck or your (good) financial decision to keep it. I'm just disagreeing with the notion that a modern truck can't tow what a 23 year old truck could with better efficiency.

Every class of truck is more capable and more efficient than 23 years ago, hands down. Modern engines get much more power out of reduced displacement, regardless of whether they are gas or diesel. Toss in other efficiencies, like AL bodies, much better transmissions, etc.

As just one example, A Ford F-150 with a 3.5 V6 EB 2x4/8' can to over 10k (Ford claims up to 13k, lol) and has an EPA rating of 17/23, while the 3.0 Diesel (which can also tow that much) has an EPA of 21/29. Heck, you couldn't even get a diesel F-150 in 1997 (only the 250+ had a diesel option). And that's not a 70k truck, it's a ~32k truck (not that I am saying it changes your cost analysis at all).

A roughly equivalent 1997 F-150 (5.4 Gas V8) gets about 12/16 which was typical of that vintage for the higher end gas trucks. The 2019 2.5EB is about 42% more efficient. The diesel options are similarly more efficient as well.

The EPA says it, so it must be true? Nobody would ever try to game those... New trucks are marginally better in fuel economy, not significantly. Especially when you spec them for towing.

I've owned a 1993 F150 with a 351, a 1997 4.6, and currently own a 2014 F150 3.5EB. The most fuel efficient was the 97 4.6.

The EPA ratings are based on the standard model, and they don't rate the packages or optional axle ratios.  For instance the window sticker on my truck says 18/21. I average 14, (8 when towing ~7000 lbs). Why? Because I have the 3.73 rear end, heavy duty payload and tow package which significantly lowers the mileage, and it's not reflected in the sticker or EPA ratings.

If you go to fuelly.com, you can get a better appreciation(not perfect, but a decent dataset). Currently, ~1997 era models are averaging ~14 and modern models ~17. Better, nowhere near 42% and I suspect - based on my experience - that most of the gains are on the lower end non/low-towing models.   It takes a significant amount of energy to tow, and there's only so much efficiency to be gained on pure ICE.

Edit:  https://www.fuelly.com/car/ford/f-150
« Last Edit: October 22, 2020, 10:15:29 AM by BDWW »