The Money Mustache Community
Around the Internet => Antimustachian Wall of Shame and Comedy => Topic started by: facepalm on September 23, 2020, 01:51:53 PM
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hoping not 205:
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/americans-love-affair-with-pickup-trucks-might-be-derailing-their-retirement-plans-2020-09-23
As a soon to be (ex) truck owner, I got a chuckle out of this. But in the first case, they have way more going on than just a truck payment.
(and I paid cash for my soon-to-be-ex-truck)
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I clicked on the tweet linked in the article. The replies to that tweet are depressing. People are clinging to their $40k vehicles.
https://twitter.com/ModeledBehavior/status/1303051417897390090?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1303051417897390090%7Ctwgr%5Eshare_3&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.marketwatch.com%2Fstory%2Famericans-love-affair-with-pickup-trucks-might-be-derailing-their-retirement-plans-2020-09-23
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I appreciate other people taking the hit so you can get an older truck, with fairly few miles, for far cheaper than new.
Drive it little enough, and it either holds value or appreciates over time. Not too many 115k mile OBS F350s around!
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I appreciate other people taking the hit so you can get an older truck, with fairly few miles, for far cheaper than new.
Drive it little enough, and it either holds value or appreciates over time. Not too many 115k mile OBS F350s around!
That's how I ended up with my truck. 2017 Chevy Colorado. Every time I check the KBB value, it has gone up a little bit. Since I don't drive all that much (5K a year) it's probably cheaper to let it sit than look for a more fuel efficient vehicle.
And the payments people make are crazy. Pricing a "reasonably" (mid level) trim on a Chevy Silverado results in a 45-50K truck. BUT the trucks I see on the road around here are more like 70K trucks. For many, that is a year's salary. $600 payment. Sigh.
(And nice score on the F350. One of my favorite trucks!)
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Ditched my Toyota Tundra several years back. I miss it every few months, then I remember the 15 mpg it got. Tires were pricey too. Dumb thing ate it’s own transmission at only 125k miles. Never buying another truck.
Now I’m hooked on N+1 bikes.
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Ditched my Toyota Tundra several years back. I miss it every few months, then I remember the 15 mpg it got. Tires were pricey too. Dumb thing ate it’s own transmission at only 125k miles. Never buying another truck.
Now I’m hooked on N+1 bikes.
Buddy has one. Nothing like the old (pre 2000) Tacomas, which would run forever.
What is an N+1 bike?
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The correct number of bicycles to own is N+1, where N is how many you currently have. Luckily it is much cheaper to accumulate bicycles than a stable of monster trucks.
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Dad had a coworker that drove a newish monster truck on an obscenely long commute. Dad did the math for him which revealed he was spending HALF of his salary on the truck and related expenses. Made no difference. Truck fetishes are commonplace in my rural area. 99% of the time I am tailgated it is a dude in a truck. Certainly an ego/personality disorder of some kind.
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The Author Ben Carlson (along with Micheal Batnick) has a fantastic podcast called Animal Spirits (https://awealthofcommonsense.com/podcast/) that I can recommend highly. Excellent financial advice.
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The truck payments might seem bad enough on their own, but often they are just the tip of the iceberg when the truck is used to haul around boats, ATVs, and other big boy toys.
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The truck payments might seem bad enough on their own, but often they are just the tip of the iceberg when the truck is used to haul around boats, ATVs, and other big boy toys.
My father falls into that category.
In the last 12 months, he:
got a used (looks really nice from picture) truck
got a new motorcycle
had his income cut effectively in half by the pandemic (not sure if it's recovered or not)
-got forbearance on his mortgage as a result
got an RV
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The truck payments might seem bad enough on their own, but often they are just the tip of the iceberg when the truck is used to haul around boats, ATVs, and other big boy toys.
My father falls into that category.
In the last 12 months, he:
got a used (looks really nice from picture) truck
got a new motorcycle
had his income cut effectively in half by the pandemic (not sure if it's recovered or not)
-got forbearance on his mortgage as a result
got an RV
Sounds like he's having a fun year!
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The Author Ben Carlson (along with Micheal Batnick) has a fantastic podcast called Animal Spirits (https://awealthofcommonsense.com/podcast/) that I can recommend highly. Excellent financial advice.
I really connect with them. I'm a mid-western guy with the same mindset as ben with the oddly excited manner of batnick. I pretty much agree with them on everything from NBA to political viewpoints.
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" Her husband traded in his Ford F-150 in August for a lower-cost car and reduced his original monthly payment of $820 by about $100, "
We don't have the details on age of vehicles/miles/quality, but this is why i kind of hate the Ramnsey advice of sell your expensive car. There's a lot of friction that causes transaction costs and the juice may not be worth the squeeze. He made this huge sacrifice that is saving $1k per year and probably convinced himself to do for a few years and then will get a new truck. I almost wonder if he is better off recognizing his dumb purchase, recognizing he will have to keep it until it dies, and recognize he needs to make other sacrifices (or use the truck for odd jobs) to make up the extra couple hundred a month.
Just seems short sited to trade in and pay the dealer 10% of the car value (just throwing out $2k of dealer fees between either profit on the car or low ball of trade-in on a $20k car going back).
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That's how I ended up with my truck. 2017 Chevy Colorado. Every time I check the KBB value, it has gone up a little bit. Since I don't drive all that much (5K a year) it's probably cheaper to let it sit than look for a more fuel efficient vehicle.
At 5k mi/yr, depending on how many miles are empty, you might benefit from a more fuel efficient vehicle, but only if most of those 5k miles are empty.
(And nice score on the F350. One of my favorite trucks!)
Thanks, I like it! 7.3, pre-DPF, and it'll do just about anything a modern truck will do as long as I don't mind spending a bit more time at it. The ride is an awful lot worse, though. Leaf springs around vs coils up front makes a huge difference, and there are plenty of roads with just weird resonances with that suspension. Doesn't bother me much, but in 40 years, I might be sick of it. Put some coils up front or something (it's apparently not that hard a swap). But I figure as long as I take care of things, the value is level to increasing over time.
99% of the time I am tailgated it is a dude in a truck.
At least out here, that sort of behavior is almost always someone in a Dodge. It's not 100% true, but most of the work trucks I see are GMC or Ford, personal trucks driven by not-goofballs tend to be Ford or Chevy, and while there are some reasonable Dodge owners, the majority of the "Yeah, you're being a doofus today..." trucks are Dodge. Probably because they're cheap...
...but this is why i kind of hate the Ramnsey advice of sell your expensive car. There's a lot of friction that causes transaction costs and the juice may not be worth the squeeze.
Plus the always-present "Oooh, new owner, so, I need this part, that part, and the other part!" thing used vehicles tend to do.
Unless you're saving a huge amount, I'd generally agree as well. The vehicle you know beats the vehicle someone else wants rid of in almost all cases.
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" Her husband traded in his Ford F-150 in August for a lower-cost car and reduced his original monthly payment of $820 by about $100, "
He made this huge sacrifice that is saving $1k per year
I have to wonder if he went deeper in debt to save that $1k per year in payments?
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" Her husband traded in his Ford F-150 in August for a lower-cost car and reduced his original monthly payment of $820 by about $100, "
He made this huge sacrifice that is saving $1k per year
I have to wonder if he went deeper in debt to save that $1k per year in payments?
That's what gap insuarance is for!
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It is pretty amazing but of course the general foolishness isn't limited to expensive trucks, unfortunately. I see so many people in the professional world who buy the Mercedes or the A6 Audi or the 5-series BMW when they haven't even been out of college for more than a few years but, hey, they can "afford" the payments so they can obviously afford the car, right? They can worry about maxing out the 401k in a few years.
Same goes for the 4000 Sq Ft home for a family of 3 or 4. They were able to get the mortgage, so obviously they can afford it, right?
Heck, same goes for the 40K wedding or the 5K engagement ring.
It is still a free country (currently) so people can make their own choices, but it does come around to affecting the rest of us when government has to step in and support so many people who never set aside anything for a rainy day let alone retirement.
However, as with so many complaints / problems / issues we face as a society, it kind of boils down to human nature. People being people and doing what people do. We can rage against the stupidity but it is what it is and will always be so. You can't logic people out of being affected by a multi-billion dollar industry (marketing) that uses the latest in behavioral science to leverage the inherent desires we all have to fit in or impress or just try to make ourselves feel better in the face of loneliness or disappointment or whatever.
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In the case of the Texas couple, it wasn't JUST the truck that was killing them financially. They had FOUR car payments/leases! I assume that was for just the two of them. Who the hell needs four cars when you're suffering financially??
I live in a very urban area (county population over 1 million) and there are a ton of pick-ups and large SUVs here. I now drive an older Prius and love to imagine dollar bills flying out those truck tailpipes as I follow them down the road.
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I live in a relatively urban area, but the amount of sparkling, huge, fancy trucks with no signs of actual use (towing/hauling anything, nor scratches or dirt) is laughable. I get wanting 4x4/AWD here as the weather is crap in the winter, but most don't need something that massive. Many of the trucks I see would not fit in a standard two car garage.
But as was said, you can't "convince" people to change decisions they are making based on emotion/keeping up an image/whatever. Perception is reality I suppose.
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That's how I ended up with my truck. 2017 Chevy Colorado. Every time I check the KBB value, it has gone up a little bit. Since I don't drive all that much (5K a year) it's probably cheaper to let it sit than look for a more fuel efficient vehicle.
At 5k mi/yr, depending on how many miles are empty, you might benefit from a more fuel efficient vehicle, but only if most of those 5k miles are empty.
Empty? as in unloaded, or single occupant?
I created a ten year total cost of ownership/acquisition cost spreadsheet comparing the Colo with more fuel efficient, newer vehicles. The Colorado comes out on top every time (because it is paid for and I have no acquisition cost). Now if I raise the price of gas and drive more miles, other vehicles start to make more sense. But I'm averaging 22 mpg in mixed driving (with the v-6) and see 28-30 on longer drives.
However, if I just sold for cash and bought a shitbox doubtless I would save money.
But I have run into a problem. The reason I bought the truck in the first places is because of my height. I'm 6'3" and typically weigh 250 or so. I can't fit in most small cars or sedans. For a larger driver, most small cars fail in at least one dimension: headroom, legroom, and shoulder room. very few cars have all three. SUV's do--but I have a truck, so . . . .no point. I can possibly fit in a larger sedan (like the Avalon or the Impala)
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Sure, but if you have to rent a truck...
I consider "empty" miles for my truck to be "miles in which I'm not using the capability of the truck at some point on the trip." I try to keep this down as low as possible, though it's certainly far from zero - taking the truck into town a few times a year with just me because it's pouring down rain is cheaper than buying another car to run a few times a year.
Your fuel economy is an awful lot better than mine, though. I get about 10 towing, 12 normal, 14 highway, unless I'm trying to keep up with traffic, then 12 highway. Not exactly amazing, but on the flip side, I've got an 8' bed and a towing capacity of "yes," at least for my needs.
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Sure, but if you have to rent a truck...
I consider "empty" miles for my truck to be "miles in which I'm not using the capability of the truck at some point on the trip." I try to keep this down as low as possible, though it's certainly far from zero - taking the truck into town a few times a year with just me because it's pouring down rain is cheaper than buying another car to run a few times a year.
Your fuel economy is an awful lot better than mine, though. I get about 10 towing, 12 normal, 14 highway, unless I'm trying to keep up with traffic, then 12 highway. Not exactly amazing, but on the flip side, I've got an 8' bed and a towing capacity of "yes," at least for my needs.
Gotcha. I only haul maybe 5% of the time. Dump runs now, but three months ago I moved an entire 2 bedroom house with just the truck with it's 6 foot bed. I used one tank of gas. Convenient. And there are times when the extra space does come in handy. So 10% of the time it is loaded. Still not a great number.
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Sure, but if you have to rent a truck...
I consider "empty" miles for my truck to be "miles in which I'm not using the capability of the truck at some point on the trip." I try to keep this down as low as possible, though it's certainly far from zero - taking the truck into town a few times a year with just me because it's pouring down rain is cheaper than buying another car to run a few times a year.
Your fuel economy is an awful lot better than mine, though. I get about 10 towing, 12 normal, 14 highway, unless I'm trying to keep up with traffic, then 12 highway. Not exactly amazing, but on the flip side, I've got an 8' bed and a towing capacity of "yes," at least for my needs.
Buy a used Terrastar International pickup. 10ft bed, 10,000 lbs empty, seating for six, absolutely enormous. Fuel economy? Similar to your normal pickup truck.
I can't figure out whether that means the big truck is getting excellent fuel economy for its size or the normal pickup trucks out there are getting terrible fuel economy. I know someone with one and I have driven it on long trips towing a 24ft cargo trailer so I can vouch for the MPG first hand. In reality it rides rough and its quite noisy inside.
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Sure, but if you have to rent a truck...
I consider "empty" miles for my truck to be "miles in which I'm not using the capability of the truck at some point on the trip." I try to keep this down as low as possible, though it's certainly far from zero - taking the truck into town a few times a year with just me because it's pouring down rain is cheaper than buying another car to run a few times a year.
Your fuel economy is an awful lot better than mine, though. I get about 10 towing, 12 normal, 14 highway, unless I'm trying to keep up with traffic, then 12 highway. Not exactly amazing, but on the flip side, I've got an 8' bed and a towing capacity of "yes," at least for my needs.
Buy a used Terrastar International pickup. 10ft bed, 10,000 lbs empty, seating for six, absolutely enormous. Fuel economy? Similar to your normal pickup truck.
I can't figure out whether that means the big truck is getting excellent fuel economy for its size or the normal pickup trucks out there are getting terrible fuel economy. I know someone with one and I have driven it on long trips towing a 24ft cargo trailer so I can vouch for the MPG first hand. In reality it rides rough and its quite noisy inside.
Diesel trucks in general get far superior fuel economy vs gas trucks - diesel fuel contains ~15% more energy by volume.
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Sure, but if you have to rent a truck...
I consider "empty" miles for my truck to be "miles in which I'm not using the capability of the truck at some point on the trip." I try to keep this down as low as possible, though it's certainly far from zero - taking the truck into town a few times a year with just me because it's pouring down rain is cheaper than buying another car to run a few times a year.
Your fuel economy is an awful lot better than mine, though. I get about 10 towing, 12 normal, 14 highway, unless I'm trying to keep up with traffic, then 12 highway. Not exactly amazing, but on the flip side, I've got an 8' bed and a towing capacity of "yes," at least for my needs.
Buy a used Terrastar International pickup. 10ft bed, 10,000 lbs empty, seating for six, absolutely enormous. Fuel economy? Similar to your normal pickup truck.
I can't figure out whether that means the big truck is getting excellent fuel economy for its size or the normal pickup trucks out there are getting terrible fuel economy. I know someone with one and I have driven it on long trips towing a 24ft cargo trailer so I can vouch for the MPG first hand. In reality it rides rough and its quite noisy inside.
Diesel trucks in general get far superior fuel economy vs gas trucks - diesel fuel contains ~15% more energy by volume.
Diesel trucks are generally much more expensive to acquire (plus you can’t, until now/soon, get a 1500 in diesel) and diesel costs more than gas. Diesel trucks do generally sell used for more so there is some recapture at the end.
If you need diesel it’s great, but the payback is usually years in the future.
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I've driven a late model full size 4wd truck for decades, but we pay cash for them and all of our stuff is paid for.
If you take care of the darned things, you can get 250,000 miles out of them with very little repair expenses beyond tires and routine maintenance.
Lot's of 150,000 mile, nice looking pickups out there than can be purchased much cheaper and still do everything a new one does. Save up and buy one of these cash, and you can do everything your buddy does without the big fat payments.
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Sure, but if you have to rent a truck...
I consider "empty" miles for my truck to be "miles in which I'm not using the capability of the truck at some point on the trip." I try to keep this down as low as possible, though it's certainly far from zero - taking the truck into town a few times a year with just me because it's pouring down rain is cheaper than buying another car to run a few times a year.
Your fuel economy is an awful lot better than mine, though. I get about 10 towing, 12 normal, 14 highway, unless I'm trying to keep up with traffic, then 12 highway. Not exactly amazing, but on the flip side, I've got an 8' bed and a towing capacity of "yes," at least for my needs.
Buy a used Terrastar International pickup. 10ft bed, 10,000 lbs empty, seating for six, absolutely enormous. Fuel economy? Similar to your normal pickup truck.
I can't figure out whether that means the big truck is getting excellent fuel economy for its size or the normal pickup trucks out there are getting terrible fuel economy. I know someone with one and I have driven it on long trips towing a 24ft cargo trailer so I can vouch for the MPG first hand. In reality it rides rough and its quite noisy inside.
Diesel trucks in general get far superior fuel economy vs gas trucks - diesel fuel contains ~15% more energy by volume.
Diesel trucks are generally much more expensive to acquire (plus you can’t, until now/soon, get a 1500 in diesel) and diesel costs more than gas. Diesel trucks do generally sell used for more so there is some recapture at the end.
If you need diesel it’s great, but the payback is usually years in the future.
Oh absolutely - just showing some reasoning behind why a large International truck doesn't get as poor mileage as might be expected.
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Buy a used Terrastar International pickup. 10ft bed, 10,000 lbs empty, seating for six, absolutely enormous. Fuel economy? Similar to your normal pickup truck.
I'm good. Don't need seating for 6, don't need... one of those.
I can't figure out whether that means the big truck is getting excellent fuel economy for its size or the normal pickup trucks out there are getting terrible fuel economy. I know someone with one and I have driven it on long trips towing a 24ft cargo trailer so I can vouch for the MPG first hand. In reality it rides rough and its quite noisy inside.
My truck is 23 years old, newer ones are quite a bit better on fuel. I don't put enough miles on mine to justify a newer one, and the newer ones that are better on fuel won't tow the stuff mine will. Which, admittedly, is less of a concern lately - the "10k lb" trailer (we didn't weigh it, didn't want to know, and got uprated tires for it) I was towing every few weeks got replaced with a shipping container at the school our church meets at, and the flatbed I've been knocking around with is probably 2500 empty. Yeah, it rides like a truck. I don't care to have a truck that rides like a car. If I want the ride of a car, I take a car.
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I've driven a late model full size 4wd truck for decades, but we pay cash for them and all of our stuff is paid for.
If you take care of the darned things, you can get 250,000 miles out of them with very little repair expenses beyond tires and routine maintenance.
Lot's of 150,000 mile, nice looking pickups out there than can be purchased much cheaper and still do everything a new one does. Save up and buy one of these cash, and you can do everything your buddy does without the big fat payments.
Totally agree. I think if I had to do it over again I'd look for the last model year of the F250 diesel, 1997 vintage. My nephew had the gas version and it was a beast. We drove them at work and they were unkillable.
And I did end up getting rid of the Colorado and slotting into a Honda Fit. The thing is a blast to drive. The Colorado had the vibrating transmission at 2k rpm issue, which was either going to be just a fluid/filter change ($500) or a torque converter. Thing is, I don't think Chevy really knows what is wrong with that transmission. So the next truck will be something older and less over-engineered. And full sized.
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Buy a used Terrastar International pickup. 10ft bed, 10,000 lbs empty, seating for six, absolutely enormous. Fuel economy? Similar to your normal pickup truck.
I'm good. Don't need seating for 6, don't need... one of those.
I can't figure out whether that means the big truck is getting excellent fuel economy for its size or the normal pickup trucks out there are getting terrible fuel economy. I know someone with one and I have driven it on long trips towing a 24ft cargo trailer so I can vouch for the MPG first hand. In reality it rides rough and its quite noisy inside.
My truck is 23 years old, newer ones are quite a bit better on fuel. I don't put enough miles on mine to justify a newer one, and the newer ones that are better on fuel won't tow the stuff mine will. Which, admittedly, is less of a concern lately - the "10k lb" trailer (we didn't weigh it, didn't want to know, and got uprated tires for it) I was towing every few weeks got replaced with a shipping container at the school our church meets at, and the flatbed I've been knocking around with is probably 2500 empty. Yeah, it rides like a truck. I don't care to have a truck that rides like a car. If I want the ride of a car, I take a car.
Newer trucks won't tow things your 23 year old truck will? Care to elaborate?
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Newer trucks won't tow things your 23 year old truck will? Care to elaborate?
Read what I wrote.
...and the newer ones that are better on fuel won't tow the stuff mine will.
I can get a newer truck that will tow 10k+, but it's not going to be that significant an improvement on fuel burn over mine, and will be a lot more expensive in the deal, with plenty of things my truck doesn't have that can fail (I'll gesture in the direction of modern diesel emissions systems and high pressure common rail injection systems). A new truck that gets substantially better fuel economy isn't something I'd want to tow heavy with. It would work for some of my uses, but not all of them. And I just like my 8' bed. I don't have to bother with getting a trailer out for most stuff - only when I'm moving things that are more than about 12' long do I bother with a trailer. Shorter stuff, toss in, flag it if it's 12', and call it good.
Newer trucks that can both tow what I care about towing and get substantially better fuel economy cost enough that it would make no sense whatsoever. My truck can do just about anything you'd want to do with a newer $70k truck. It'll probably take me longer, I might burn a bit more fuel, and the ride is worse (though it improves nicely when loaded). I just spent a fraction of what a new truck costs to do all that. I simply don't burn enough fuel to make it worth upgrading, and that I have a truck that can handle just about anything we need means that the car we use for general transport can be a smaller, quite efficient PHEV (1st gen Volt) that uses nearly no gas to run us around.
In any case, back to your regularly scheduled truck bashing, I suppose.
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Newer trucks won't tow things your 23 year old truck will? Care to elaborate?
Read what I wrote.
...and the newer ones that are better on fuel won't tow the stuff mine will.
I can get a newer truck that will tow 10k+, but it's not going to be that significant an improvement on fuel burn over mine, and will be a lot more expensive in the deal, with plenty of things my truck doesn't have that can fail (I'll gesture in the direction of modern diesel emissions systems and high pressure common rail injection systems). A new truck that gets substantially better fuel economy isn't something I'd want to tow heavy with. It would work for some of my uses, but not all of them. And I just like my 8' bed. I don't have to bother with getting a trailer out for most stuff - only when I'm moving things that are more than about 12' long do I bother with a trailer. Shorter stuff, toss in, flag it if it's 12', and call it good.
Newer trucks that can both tow what I care about towing and get substantially better fuel economy cost enough that it would make no sense whatsoever. My truck can do just about anything you'd want to do with a newer $70k truck. It'll probably take me longer, I might burn a bit more fuel, and the ride is worse (though it improves nicely when loaded). I just spent a fraction of what a new truck costs to do all that. I simply don't burn enough fuel to make it worth upgrading, and that I have a truck that can handle just about anything we need means that the car we use for general transport can be a smaller, quite efficient PHEV (1st gen Volt) that uses nearly no gas to run us around.
In any case, back to your regularly scheduled truck bashing, I suppose.
Hey bud, I ain't bashing you or your truck or your (good) financial decision to keep it. I'm just disagreeing with the notion that a modern truck can't tow what a 23 year old truck could with better efficiency.
Every class of truck is more capable and more efficient than 23 years ago, hands down. Modern engines get much more power out of reduced displacement, regardless of whether they are gas or diesel. Toss in other efficiencies, like AL bodies, much better transmissions, etc.
As just one example, A Ford F-150 with a 3.5 V6 EB 2x4/8' can to over 10k (Ford claims up to 13k, lol) and has an EPA rating of 17/23, while the 3.0 Diesel (which can also tow that much) has an EPA of 21/29. Heck, you couldn't even get a diesel F-150 in 1997 (only the 250+ had a diesel option). And that's not a 70k truck, it's a ~32k truck (not that I am saying it changes your cost analysis at all).
A roughly equivalent 1997 F-150 (5.4 Gas V8) gets about 12/16 which was typical of that vintage for the higher end gas trucks. The 2019 2.5EB is about 42% more efficient. The diesel options are similarly more efficient as well.
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The problem with a $70K truck is they are too pretty to use like a truck until they are a decade or more old.
That leads to towing trailers that aren't pretty and can get scuffed up. But then trailers are more complicated to work with, added cost, burn more fuel, etc.
Damn catch-22 so just buy the 1997 Ford and quit worrying... ;)
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The article only elaborates on debt payments. It doesn't specify if they max out their 401K or if they regularly invest in other retirement options.
No mention of a plan at all.
This couple's approach seems to be how much debt can you handle on a monthly basis - without taking any sort of emergency into consideration.
... and saving only $100 mo yet having to give up his truck for it seems like a bad decision.
It doesn't matter that the author hiccuped about the truck - there is plenty to question about their lack of a robust financial plan.
Unless you have a business or side business requiring a truck that brings in extra money every month - it is an extravagance.
Pick-ups are cool and I wouldn't mind owning one again, but hell, $820 mo pmt? The question is going forward can they continue to pay the mortgage and manage to live on 50% less income for a long time to come, if necessary?
Seems to me a better plan would have been to get rid of one of the other vehicles and share a ride (if they have two kids who each need transportation to work or school) - otherwise cut the crap and downsize to two cars, stat.
Our landscape guy proudly showed off his new custom leather seats - $750 each:)! a custom stereo system with eight speakers to name just two of his boy toy ' luxury improvements' - then went on to say how he has to watch every penny - hilarious...sad...
IMHO choosing a truck over retirement is downright ludicrous and sets one up for financial hardship. Even if you make plenty of money to easily cover all your monthly payments and debt you still need your own solid emergency bail out plan - the gov't certainly isn't it.
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I had a 2000 Tacoma until 2016 when a woman in a Cadillac pulled in front of me and totaled it. My mother had bought the truck for me for 18k back in 2001. I decided I wanted another Tacoma because the first one treated me so well. I never had any repairs besides fixing a door handle for $30. It was a great truck.
The new Tacomas cost like $32000 for a slightly better than base model. I tried to justify a five hundred dollar car payment for a ton of years but I couldn't. I finally decided I needed a cheaper car. I found a 2013 Corolla with 30k miles on it for $14000 and have been driving it and will continue to drive it until it dies. I now have 58k miles on it.
I moved myself several times in the truck and I thought I would miss it and would always need a truck, but I don't. I wish they still made smaller trucks because everything has gotten so big and expensive. Since 2016 I have had to rent a truck once and I now move myself using a Uhaul.
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Hey bud, I ain't bashing you or your truck or your (good) financial decision to keep it. I'm just disagreeing with the notion that a modern truck can't tow what a 23 year old truck could with better efficiency.
Every class of truck is more capable and more efficient than 23 years ago, hands down. Modern engines get much more power out of reduced displacement, regardless of whether they are gas or diesel. Toss in other efficiencies, like AL bodies, much better transmissions, etc.
As just one example, A Ford F-150 with a 3.5 V6 EB 2x4/8' can to over 10k (Ford claims up to 13k, lol) and has an EPA rating of 17/23, while the 3.0 Diesel (which can also tow that much) has an EPA of 21/29. Heck, you couldn't even get a diesel F-150 in 1997 (only the 250+ had a diesel option). And that's not a 70k truck, it's a ~32k truck (not that I am saying it changes your cost analysis at all).
A roughly equivalent 1997 F-150 (5.4 Gas V8) gets about 12/16 which was typical of that vintage for the higher end gas trucks. The 2019 2.5EB is about 42% more efficient. The diesel options are similarly more efficient as well.
The EPA says it, so it must be true? Nobody would ever try to game those... New trucks are marginally better in fuel economy, not significantly. Especially when you spec them for towing.
I've owned a 1993 F150 with a 351, a 1997 4.6, and currently own a 2014 F150 3.5EB. The most fuel efficient was the 97 4.6.
The EPA ratings are based on the standard model, and they don't rate the packages or optional axle ratios. For instance the window sticker on my truck says 18/21. I average 14, (8 when towing ~7000 lbs). Why? Because I have the 3.73 rear end, heavy duty payload and tow package which significantly lowers the mileage, and it's not reflected in the sticker or EPA ratings.
If you go to fuelly.com, you can get a better appreciation(not perfect, but a decent dataset). Currently, ~1997 era models are averaging ~14 and modern models ~17. Better, nowhere near 42% and I suspect - based on my experience - that most of the gains are on the lower end non/low-towing models. It takes a significant amount of energy to tow, and there's only so much efficiency to be gained on pure ICE.
Edit: https://www.fuelly.com/car/ford/f-150 (https://www.fuelly.com/car/ford/f-150)
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I live in a relatively urban area, but the amount of sparkling, huge, fancy trucks with no signs of actual use (towing/hauling anything, nor scratches or dirt) is laughable. I get wanting 4x4/AWD here as the weather is crap in the winter, but most don't need something that massive. Many of the trucks I see would not fit in a standard two car garage.
But as was said, you can't "convince" people to change decisions they are making based on emotion/keeping up an image/whatever. Perception is reality I suppose.
As a non american I don’t quite understand the thing with trucks. Why is it status to drive a work vehicule? So everyone can pretend to be cowboys? Or is it the price? And coming from a country with bad weather in winter I still don’t understand it.
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I live in a relatively urban area, but the amount of sparkling, huge, fancy trucks with no signs of actual use (towing/hauling anything, nor scratches or dirt) is laughable. I get wanting 4x4/AWD here as the weather is crap in the winter, but most don't need something that massive. Many of the trucks I see would not fit in a standard two car garage.
But as was said, you can't "convince" people to change decisions they are making based on emotion/keeping up an image/whatever. Perception is reality I suppose.
As a non american I don’t quite understand the thing with trucks. Why is it status to drive a work vehicule? So everyone can pretend to be cowboys? Or is it the price? And coming from a country with bad weather in winter I still don’t understand it.
https://www.thedrive.com/article/1751/why-do-americans-love-pickup-trucks-ask-the-drive
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-drive/news/industry-news/why-pickups-are-so-popular-even-with-city-dwellers/article23407460/
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I live in a relatively urban area, but the amount of sparkling, huge, fancy trucks with no signs of actual use (towing/hauling anything, nor scratches or dirt) is laughable. I get wanting 4x4/AWD here as the weather is crap in the winter, but most don't need something that massive. Many of the trucks I see would not fit in a standard two car garage.
But as was said, you can't "convince" people to change decisions they are making based on emotion/keeping up an image/whatever. Perception is reality I suppose.
As a non american I don’t quite understand the thing with trucks. Why is it status to drive a work vehicule? So everyone can pretend to be cowboys? Or is it the price? And coming from a country with bad weather in winter I still don’t understand it.
https://www.thedrive.com/news/26907/you-dont-need-a-full-size-pickup-truck-you-need-a-cowboy-costume
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I live in a relatively urban area, but the amount of sparkling, huge, fancy trucks with no signs of actual use (towing/hauling anything, nor scratches or dirt) is laughable. I get wanting 4x4/AWD here as the weather is crap in the winter, but most don't need something that massive. Many of the trucks I see would not fit in a standard two car garage.
But as was said, you can't "convince" people to change decisions they are making based on emotion/keeping up an image/whatever. Perception is reality I suppose.
As a non american I don’t quite understand the thing with trucks. Why is it status to drive a work vehicule? So everyone can pretend to be cowboys? Or is it the price? And coming from a country with bad weather in winter I still don’t understand it.
https://www.thedrive.com/article/1751/why-do-americans-love-pickup-trucks-ask-the-drive
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-drive/news/industry-news/why-pickups-are-so-popular-even-with-city-dwellers/article23407460/
Thanks, I especially liked this sentence: ” His Ram 4x2 fitted with the 3.0-litre EcoDiesel is the most fuel-efficient light pickup on the market, rated at 11.6 litres/100 km in the city and 8.4 on the highway. ” Fuel efficient and 11,6 litres/100 km should not even be in the same sentence. So basically, people want to pretend to be though cowboys and trucks are subsidized regarding fuel efficiency standards and taxes. And gas is cheap in US.
With that price and fuel efficiency I would prefer a cheap version of a Porsche. I got an Volvo xc90 as a rental car a year ago as I was upgraded and I really hated the size and height and not to mention the fuel costs. Even with all the parking feature it felt like I was drivning a tractor due to the size and I had to climb into and out of the car. Try to squeeze that into a parking space. The fuel cost was about four times of the car that I paid for. We got a lot of laughs out of the massage seats and my grandfather liked the car due to his difficulties to get into a car.
The tax on trucks are high here as well as gas prices so trucks are for stupid young men that want to Look though or as a work vehicules.
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City slickers being obsessed with buying trucks has been beneficial for people on Hillbilly Mountain who buy the trucks 10 years later when they are on super discount used lots. We end up using the old "fashion trucks" for contract work, hauling firewood, plowing snow, etc. So, thanks for being ridiculous city folk!
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An argument could probably be made that if you're going to spend $40-50k or more on a single vehicle, a truck makes the most sense financially. They're versatile enough to handle common tasks without paying to outsource them, they're super common which keeps parts and repair costs low and they don't depreciate the way a $40-50k Jaguar/BMW/Mercedes/Cadillac/Lexus/Alfa Romeo/Audi/Lincoln will.
I don't think trucks are necessarily as big of a deal as they're made out to be here. If the examples in the article had spent the same amount on a luxury sedan, they'd be in the exact same spot. The issue is more about making terrible financial choices and accruing massive debt on depreciating assets than it is about the shape of those assets.
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An argument could probably be made that if you're going to spend $40-50k or more on a single vehicle, a truck makes the most sense financially. They're versatile enough to handle common tasks without paying to outsource them, they're super common which keeps parts and repair costs low and they don't depreciate the way a $40-50k Jaguar/BMW/Mercedes/Cadillac/Lexus/Alfa Romeo/Audi/Lincoln will.
I don't necessarily disagree, but I can get a brand new 2021 Toyota Tacoma TRD Off-Road Double Cab with the 6-ft. bed for $38,985 and then finance it for 60 months with a 1.9% APR loan for a $844/mo $681/mo payment which is a far cry from the $70K trucks and $1,300 payments mentioned in the article.
FWIW I wouldn't buy a truck unless I had a concrete use for it, but if I did I might buy new because they hold their value so well.
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An argument could probably be made that if you're going to spend $40-50k or more on a single vehicle, a truck makes the most sense financially. They're versatile enough to handle common tasks without paying to outsource them, they're super common which keeps parts and repair costs low and they don't depreciate the way a $40-50k Jaguar/BMW/Mercedes/Cadillac/Lexus/Alfa Romeo/Audi/Lincoln will.
I don't necessarily disagree, but I can get a brand new 2021 Toyota Tacoma TRD Off-Road Double Cab with the 6-ft. bed for $38,985 and then finance it for 60 months with a 1.9% APR loan for a $844/mo payment which is a far cry from the $70K trucks and $1,300 payments mentioned in the article.
FWIW I wouldn't buy a truck unless I had a concrete use for it, but if I did I might buy new because they hold their value so well.
There are certainly cheaper options. I'm guessing that if the people buying $70k trucks weren't buying a truck, they'd be buying a similarly priced vehicle with similar features, options and tech. Heck, I've had people here tell me that there's no way they'd be happy owning a $30k vehicle after getting used to driving a $70k one, and we're supposed to be the financially focused weirdos with a minimalist slant.
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An argument could probably be made that if you're going to spend $40-50k or more on a single vehicle, a truck makes the most sense financially. They're versatile enough to handle common tasks without paying to outsource them, they're super common which keeps parts and repair costs low and they don't depreciate the way a $40-50k Jaguar/BMW/Mercedes/Cadillac/Lexus/Alfa Romeo/Audi/Lincoln will.
I don't necessarily disagree, but I can get a brand new 2021 Toyota Tacoma TRD Off-Road Double Cab with the 6-ft. bed for $38,985 and then finance it for 60 months with a 1.9% APR loan for a $844/mo payment which is a far cry from the $70K trucks and $1,300 payments mentioned in the article.
FWIW I wouldn't buy a truck unless I had a concrete use for it, but if I did I might buy new because they hold their value so well.
There are certainly cheaper options. I'm guessing that if the people buying $70k trucks weren't buying a truck, they'd be buying a similarly priced vehicle with similar features, options and tech. Heck, I've had people here tell me that there's no way they'd be happy owning a $30k vehicle after getting used to driving a $70k one, and we're supposed to be the financially focused weirdos with a minimalist slant.
The hedonic treadmill is real.
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An argument could probably be made that if you're going to spend $40-50k or more on a single vehicle, a truck makes the most sense financially. They're versatile enough to handle common tasks without paying to outsource them, they're super common which keeps parts and repair costs low and they don't depreciate the way a $40-50k Jaguar/BMW/Mercedes/Cadillac/Lexus/Alfa Romeo/Audi/Lincoln will.
Umm . . . I think no on that point. While parts might be a tad cheaper for a truck that is 15+ years old, new truck parts are no cheaper than auto/sedan parts. The repairs, oftentime, can end up being more expensive, especially if you were super stoopid and bought a diesel truck.
I bought a cheap bike off Craigslist from a guy that happened to be a GM/Chevy service writer. We got to talking about trucks (he had a monstercab brodozer) and I asked him about Chevy trucks, as I was considering one. He said that under no circumstances should I buy a diesel unless I was logging a ton of miles. With the filter changes and required fluids, he said a major service easily ran $1500 on the diesels since you had to use GM's filters and fluids. I forget what injector changes cost but he said replacement was fairly common. He had a lot of pissed off customers.
I ran into this when I went to service my Colorado. My guy would not do the oil change unless I used GM oil. GM is really asshole-ish about their oil spec. (reason one million why I will never own another GM)
I do think though you can make an argument that some trucks see the shop less than others--Toyotas, for example--so you might get a lower cost per mile with an import.
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I do think though you can make an argument that some trucks see the shop less than others--Toyotas, for example--so you might get a lower cost per mile with an import.
I saw a dude on Youtube the other day who said he had 240K on his Tacoma with nothing but normal wear items.
Also, along those lines, some of those expensive luxury cars (Audi S4, etc) have very expensive timing belt jobs because the whole front of the car needs to be disassembled every 90K to get to the belt. It's actually one of the reasons that they depreciate so quickly.
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I do think though you can make an argument that some trucks see the shop less than others--Toyotas, for example--so you might get a lower cost per mile with an import.
I saw a dude on Youtube the other day who said he had 240K on his Tacoma with nothing but normal wear items.
Also, along those lines, some of those expensive luxury cars (Audi S4, etc) have very expensive timing belt jobs because the whole front of the car needs to be disassembled every 90K to get to the belt. It's actually one of the reasons that they depreciate so quickly.
I bought my '99 Tacoma at ~263k, sold it to a friend at ~283k a few years later, and last I heard a couple years ago he was still running it - above 300k miles and still chugging along. The clutch was slipping when I sold it and he hadn't changed it yet, lol...was still going.
A couple years ago, someone in a parking lot made some sarcastic comment to me about how it must be nice to be able to take a $80k vehicle offroad (referring to my Lexus GX470). I paid $8150 for it..
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An argument could probably be made that if you're going to spend $40-50k or more on a single vehicle, a truck makes the most sense financially. They're versatile enough to handle common tasks without paying to outsource them, they're super common which keeps parts and repair costs low and they don't depreciate the way a $40-50k Jaguar/BMW/Mercedes/Cadillac/Lexus/Alfa Romeo/Audi/Lincoln will.
I don't necessarily disagree, but I can get a brand new 2021 Toyota Tacoma TRD Off-Road Double Cab with the 6-ft. bed for $38,985 and then finance it for 60 months with a 1.9% APR loan for a $844/mo payment which is a far cry from the $70K trucks and $1,300 payments mentioned in the article.
FWIW I wouldn't buy a truck unless I had a concrete use for it, but if I did I might buy new because they hold their value so well.
That math doesn’t work. Even at 0% down and 10% sales tax you’re talking about a payment of $750, not $844.
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An argument could probably be made that if you're going to spend $40-50k or more on a single vehicle, a truck makes the most sense financially. They're versatile enough to handle common tasks without paying to outsource them, they're super common which keeps parts and repair costs low and they don't depreciate the way a $40-50k Jaguar/BMW/Mercedes/Cadillac/Lexus/Alfa Romeo/Audi/Lincoln will.
Umm . . . I think no on that point. While parts might be a tad cheaper for a truck that is 15+ years old, new truck parts are no cheaper than auto/sedan parts. The repairs, oftentime, can end up being more expensive, especially if you were super stoopid and bought a diesel truck.
I bought a cheap bike off Craigslist from a guy that happened to be a GM/Chevy service writer. We got to talking about trucks (he had a monstercab brodozer) and I asked him about Chevy trucks, as I was considering one. He said that under no circumstances should I buy a diesel unless I was logging a ton of miles. With the filter changes and required fluids, he said a major service easily ran $1500 on the diesels since you had to use GM's filters and fluids. I forget what injector changes cost but he said replacement was fairly common. He had a lot of pissed off customers.
I ran into this when I went to service my Colorado. My guy would not do the oil change unless I used GM oil. GM is really asshole-ish about their oil spec. (reason one million why I will never own another GM)
I do think though you can make an argument that some trucks see the shop less than others--Toyotas, for example--so you might get a lower cost per mile with an import.
Have to compare apples:apples. Yes, truck parts are not cheaper than $25k domestic sedan parts. But a $40-50k truck versus a $40-50k German car, the (gas) truck is absolutely cheaper to fix, and the depreciation will be a lot lower.
Diesel is a whole nother ballgame, yes, but in the flip side if you need a diesel truck you need a diesel truck; there really is no substitute. But again, resale on diesel trucks is unbelievable, I wouldn’t be surprised to hear total ownership costs pencil out over a certain lifespan (which for diesels tends to be a long long time).
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An argument could probably be made that if you're going to spend $40-50k or more on a single vehicle, a truck makes the most sense financially. They're versatile enough to handle common tasks without paying to outsource them, they're super common which keeps parts and repair costs low and they don't depreciate the way a $40-50k Jaguar/BMW/Mercedes/Cadillac/Lexus/Alfa Romeo/Audi/Lincoln will.
I don't necessarily disagree, but I can get a brand new 2021 Toyota Tacoma TRD Off-Road Double Cab with the 6-ft. bed for $38,985 and then finance it for 60 months with a 1.9% APR loan for a $844/mo payment which is a far cry from the $70K trucks and $1,300 payments mentioned in the article.
FWIW I wouldn't buy a truck unless I had a concrete use for it, but if I did I might buy new because they hold their value so well.
That math doesn’t work. Even at 0% down and 10% sales tax you’re talking about a payment of $750, not $844.
Right you are! I read this too quick (https://www.toyota.com/pacificnorthwest/deals-incentives/tacoma_apr_284355/) and used the wrong number for $/k financed. I get $681/mo with the correct math and no sales tax.
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An argument could probably be made that if you're going to spend $40-50k or more on a single vehicle, a truck makes the most sense financially. They're versatile enough to handle common tasks without paying to outsource them, they're super common which keeps parts and repair costs low and they don't depreciate the way a $40-50k Jaguar/BMW/Mercedes/Cadillac/Lexus/Alfa Romeo/Audi/Lincoln will.
I don't necessarily disagree, but I can get a brand new 2021 Toyota Tacoma TRD Off-Road Double Cab with the 6-ft. bed for $38,985 and then finance it for 60 months with a 1.9% APR loan for a $844/mo $681/mo payment which is a far cry from the $70K trucks and $1,300 payments mentioned in the article.
FWIW I wouldn't buy a truck unless I had a concrete use for it, but if I did I might buy new because they hold their value so well.
$70k trucks exist, but let's not pretend that's what common trucks you see on the road were purchased for.
The F-150 XLT is by far the most common ford truck sold and sells for 30-40k sticker (so as low as in the mid to high 20s unless you just pay sticker).
For trucks, a 'single product' generally encompasses all segments from economy/work clear through luxury unlike sedans and other vehicles where makers almost always have different products for those different markets. Instead of different badges they just have a gazillion trim levels.
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Umm . . . I think no on that point. While parts might be a tad cheaper for a truck that is 15+ years old, new truck parts are no cheaper than auto/sedan parts. The repairs, oftentime, can end up being more expensive, especially if you were super stoopid and bought a diesel truck.
It depends on the diesel. But parts are typically going to be an awful lot more expensive for trucks. Last time I had to get a major set of parts for my truck (1997 F350 CCLB, 7.3 Powerstroke), the parts guy basically apologized for the cost. I was putting in a hotter thermostat and a rerouted upper coolant hose so I can replace the serpentine belt without having to pull a coolant line, and after snapping a bolt or two, decided to just do the rest of the front end - water pump, lower radiator hose, etc. While I'm in there and had coolant drained, there wasn't a lot of extra effort required to do the other stuff. But the parts were definitely not cheap... on the other hand, I did the work myself, so the labor certainly was. Coworkers thought I was an unhinged lunatic for spending a perfectly good Saturday working on a truck, I thought they were nuts for suggesting I spend $1000 to pay someone else to do a reasonably simple bit of maintenance.
But the truck tax is real. And that's before you look at tires. I've got a set of 19.5s (came with the truck), and a set of tires is up in the $2k range (19.5 wheels are the "commercial truck" tire size, commonly found on box vans, motor homes, etc). On the other hand, the tires were "eeeh, could use replacement sometime in the next year or two..." when I got the truck about 6 years ago, and are still about the same. I just don't put many miles on.
I'm not going to defend the "truck lifestyle," because I'm not part of it. But I will entirely defend owning a truck if you live outside of town. Just do most of your own maintenance.
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Umm . . . I think no on that point. While parts might be a tad cheaper for a truck that is 15+ years old, new truck parts are no cheaper than auto/sedan parts. The repairs, oftentime, can end up being more expensive, especially if you were super stoopid and bought a diesel truck.
It depends on the diesel. But parts are typically going to be an awful lot more expensive for trucks. Last time I had to get a major set of parts for my truck (1997 F350 CCLB, 7.3 Powerstroke), the parts guy basically apologized for the cost. I was putting in a hotter thermostat and a rerouted upper coolant hose so I can replace the serpentine belt without having to pull a coolant line, and after snapping a bolt or two, decided to just do the rest of the front end - water pump, lower radiator hose, etc. While I'm in there and had coolant drained, there wasn't a lot of extra effort required to do the other stuff. But the parts were definitely not cheap... on the other hand, I did the work myself, so the labor certainly was. Coworkers thought I was an unhinged lunatic for spending a perfectly good Saturday working on a truck, I thought they were nuts for suggesting I spend $1000 to pay someone else to do a reasonably simple bit of maintenance.
But the truck tax is real. And that's before you look at tires. I've got a set of 19.5s (came with the truck), and a set of tires is up in the $2k range (19.5 wheels are the "commercial truck" tire size, commonly found on box vans, motor homes, etc). On the other hand, the tires were "eeeh, could use replacement sometime in the next year or two..." when I got the truck about 6 years ago, and are still about the same. I just don't put many miles on.
I'm not going to defend the "truck lifestyle," because I'm not part of it. But I will entirely defend owning a truck if you live outside of town. Just do most of your own maintenance.
Ugh, you are comparing an F-350 Diesel costs. An F-350 is a truck targeted directly at the commercial market (not that commercial buyers are its only purchasers). It's the kind of truck you buy if you want to tow ~30,000lbs or haul several tons in the bed. It represents <1% of the trucks people see on the road.
The "truck tax" you talk of absolutely exists though for the type of truck you have, because (a) they are rare and (b) these are trucks that typically businesses can write off that up-charge as a business expense. For the actually trucks most commonly bought by "truck lifestyle" folks the parts aren't more expensive than other large consumer vehicles. Most manufactures share a lot of parts between all their cars.
To be clear, I ain't defending the purchase of trucks when they aren't needed or claiming F-350s are only bought for legit needs, but you're not making a good comparison here for what the overwhelming number of "truck" people actually buy.
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Ugh, you are comparing an F-350 Diesel costs. An F-350 is a truck targeted directly at the commercial market (not that commercial buyers are its only purchasers). It's the kind of truck you buy if you want to tow ~30,000lbs or haul several tons in the bed. It represents <1% of the trucks people see on the road.
30k lbs, yes. "Several tons in the bed," apparently has to be pretty new, but the newer ones show nearly 8k of payload capacity in the bed, which certainly surprises me!
At least out here, I see an awful lot of "full ton class" trucks, but I'm also in a rural area, and an awful lot of 'em have trailers attached. Which, certainly, argues for the commercial market.
The "truck tax" you talk of absolutely exists though for the type of truck you have, because (a) they are rare and (b) these are trucks that typically businesses can write off that up-charge as a business expense.
(a) They're not that rare, though I do lump any of the "Super Duties" (3/4 ton, 1 ton, etc) together.
(b) As near as I can tell, the parts aren't that expensive just because they can be, they're expensive because they're just massive. My water pump is the size of a small scooter engine. Same for radiator hoses, suspension parts, etc. They're just big.
For the actually trucks most commonly bought by "truck lifestyle" folks the parts aren't more expensive than other large consumer vehicles.
I guess I see a different version of "truck lifestyle," perhaps? I don't consider "I drive a stock F150" to be "truck lifestyle." Out here, at least, that's a halfway reasonable vehicle, though most people I know with one also have a smaller car. Nor would I consider a F150 to be a "monster truck" in the context of this thread. The "truck lifestyle" stuff I refer to is the "I have an impractically lifted pickup with motorized steps that come down so I don't need a ladder, with stacks in the bed, not that a 7' high bed is practical anyway..." sort of stuff. I've seen them, I think they're just as absurd as anyone else, and I can't wrap my head around how one has, in many cases, literally as much money as our house wrapped up in a truck that is objectively bad at being a truck. At least the guys who slam their trucks have a low bed to work with!
I recognize that my truck is an expensive bit of transportation to run, I try to avoid taking it for things that the car could be used for, but it also allows us a rather efficient car in that we can cover everything else with the truck.
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Ugh, you are comparing an F-350 Diesel costs. An F-350 is a truck targeted directly at the commercial market (not that commercial buyers are its only purchasers). It's the kind of truck you buy if you want to tow ~30,000lbs or haul several tons in the bed. It represents <1% of the trucks people see on the road.
30k lbs, yes. "Several tons in the bed," apparently has to be pretty new, but the newer ones show nearly 8k of payload capacity in the bed, which certainly surprises me!
At least out here, I see an awful lot of "full ton class" trucks, but I'm also in a rural area, and an awful lot of 'em have trailers attached. Which, certainly, argues for the commercial market.
The "truck tax" you talk of absolutely exists though for the type of truck you have, because (a) they are rare and (b) these are trucks that typically businesses can write off that up-charge as a business expense.
(a) They're not that rare, though I do lump any of the "Super Duties" (3/4 ton, 1 ton, etc) together.
(b) As near as I can tell, the parts aren't that expensive just because they can be, they're expensive because they're just massive. My water pump is the size of a small scooter engine. Same for radiator hoses, suspension parts, etc. They're just big.
For the actually trucks most commonly bought by "truck lifestyle" folks the parts aren't more expensive than other large consumer vehicles.
I guess I see a different version of "truck lifestyle," perhaps? I don't consider "I drive a stock F150" to be "truck lifestyle." Out here, at least, that's a halfway reasonable vehicle, though most people I know with one also have a smaller car. Nor would I consider a F150 to be a "monster truck" in the context of this thread. The "truck lifestyle" stuff I refer to is the "I have an impractically lifted pickup with motorized steps that come down so I don't need a ladder, with stacks in the bed, not that a 7' high bed is practical anyway..." sort of stuff. I've seen them, I think they're just as absurd as anyone else, and I can't wrap my head around how one has, in many cases, literally as much money as our house wrapped up in a truck that is objectively bad at being a truck. At least the guys who slam their trucks have a low bed to work with!
I recognize that my truck is an expensive bit of transportation to run, I try to avoid taking it for things that the car could be used for, but it also allows us a rather efficient car in that we can cover everything else with the truck.
I differentiate between "truck lifestyle" and "lifestyle where a truck is useful". The former is where people buy a truck simply to own a truck (or perhaps with dreams of needing a truck some day). Heck, I'm even pretty easy going about the line between the two (unlike most here). I only get annoyed by the trucks that never tow anything, never haul more than groceries, never leave the pavement, and are in fact less useful than alternatives for the owner. Frequently, but not always, these are bro-dozers or have thousands in ridiculous lifts (or lowers) or other things that, like you said, not only make it clear you don't use the truck as a truck but make it impossible (or very nearly so) to do so. Sometimes they are just a F-150 platinum used exclusively as a "luxury car" to commute to an office job.
By far the most popular trucks used this way are the 1/2 ton (F-150 and equivs). The larger trucks are much lower bang for the buck for what these people are after (image), but they certainly exist. But, rounding back to the original topic I came in on, those trucks aren't terribly more expensive than other cars to repair. They often use the same components as passenger vehicles, as only the "commercial" grade trucks typically have unique low volume parts like your mammoth diesel engine.
Anyway, you firmly fall in the "lifestyle where a truck is useful" category in case you were thinking I was arguing about you.
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I ran into this when I went to service my Colorado. My guy would not do the oil change unless I used GM oil. GM is really asshole-ish about their oil spec. (reason one million why I will never own another GM)
I do think though you can make an argument that some trucks see the shop less than others--Toyotas, for example--so you might get a lower cost per mile with an import.
But once you are beyond the warranty period, use whatever oil and filter you choose as long as it meets the manufacturer's specs. The only time I've stuck with OEM fluids is with Honda auto transmission and AWD diff fluid.
And a reminder that life is different all around the country. We drove out mid-size family SUV into NYC on vacation. Our hotel provided parking. That SUV seemed huge in traffic there - although we same many more with New York tags. Street parking would have been an adventure. Around our part of the country it isn't big nor a chore to operate or park.
Same with overseas. When stationed in Italy anything bigger than an original Mini or Fiat 500 was kind of a pain. Friends who brought over North American spec compact cars were effectively driving mid-sized vehicles. Thirsty too. My Autobianchi had a 900cc motor. My later Beetle was a larger car with its 40 HP / 1200cc engine.
Regardless - if a person lands in dire straits because of whatever they are spending their money on, they need to optimize their choices. I'll be happy if the average size of vehicles shrinks again in the USA.
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I bought a 2016 Chevy Express 2500 van, 6.0 liter engine with 42,000 miles on it for $17,000 last year. I use it for towing equipment a couple of days a week and the occasional camping trip (tools removed and cot and gravel bike inserted). The rest of the time it is resting in the yard. The same year Tahoe or Silverado are going for close to $40,000. Diesels is even more and only get a little better mileage when towing (I get 20 mpg highway, and 14 around town towing 3500 pounds).
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Same with overseas. When stationed in Italy anything bigger than an original Mini or Fiat 500 was kind of a pain. Friends who brought over North American spec compact cars were effectively driving mid-sized vehicles. Thirsty too. My Autobianchi had a 900cc motor. My later Beetle was a larger car with its 40 HP / 1200cc engine.
Regardless - if a person lands in dire straits because of whatever they are spending their money on, they need to optimize their choices. I'll be happy if the average size of vehicles shrinks again in the USA.
Yes on both counts. The Ford Focus is a popular car in Europe, but it isn't a compact.
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This was me before i started learning about managing my money and finances/investments. i bought a 2002 dodge 2500 diesel back in 2007 for around $20k on a 5 year note, i got one because a friend had one and i thought (still think) they are awesome. Yet i never towed anything, had a 6 mile round trip commute and already had a paid off car that ran well. fast forward a year or so and it had the beginnings of a mechanical problem (vp44 pump going out) so i traded it in (resulting in negative equity) on a 2006 dodge 2500 diesel so i could haul my friends to the mountains for skiing. (face palm) Around that time Diesel fuel was nearly $5 a gallon, i remember driving home from the dealer and filling it up - over $125 to fill the tanks, the debit card had to stop the transaction because it was too much at the time.
that truck cost me ~$650 a month in payment, ~$150 a month in Insurance (young male), and $300 a month in fuel with all the driving i was doing to see a long distance GF and go skiing. That total of ~$1100 was about half of my monthly take home at the time. i shudder thinking about it now and other similarly bad decisions i made back then.
i ended up getting smarter when someone told me about dave ramsey, i traded in the truck on a mazda with negative equity, then stumbled into my current mazda while trying to trade down even further. I've had it for 10 years now, bought a left over brand new 2010 mazda 3 hatch in 2011 for $3k off sticker and 0%, no plans to sell it or upgrade any time soon.
i found MMM in 2017 and have slowly fixed our finances even more, we still make mistakes and some dumb choices but get better all the time.
there is some hope for the monster truck enthusiasts out there to see the error in their ways and find the light. it just takes a huge face punch moment.
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In the case of the Texas couple, it wasn't JUST the truck that was killing them financially. They had FOUR car payments/leases! I assume that was for just the two of them. Who the hell needs four cars when you're suffering financially??
I live in a very urban area (county population over 1 million) and there are a ton of pick-ups and large SUVs here. I now drive an older Prius and love to imagine dollar bills flying out those truck tailpipes as I follow them down the road.
lmao!! That's a great visual!! I will imagine this too from now on. I get so incensed by these big arrogant, bullying trucks that love to tailgate my little car. Most of my neighbors have these ginormous trucks which don't seem to do any work for all that weight & gas costs they're hauling around.
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A friend is downsizing during their later retirement. Sold their animals, sold the horse trailer. All that is left is the truck. I figure by end of summer it'll be gone too. I've driven and maintained that truck many times over the years. I would prob have first option on that truck and was considering it this past weekend when I drove it again to help my friend. Nice, the right version of old (20 years old, low mileage) but being objective - I need a truck for about an afternoon about once every other year. I can't even invent uses for that truck. I have a trailer hitch and an SUV rated at 5K lbs towing.
I'll just rent a truck or a trailer if I ever need a truck. At least I know I can borrow this one any time as long as friend has it. I typically either fill it up with gas upon return, or wash and detail it or service it as a return favor. Our friend is a good friend.
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Nice, the right version of old (20 years old, low mileage) but being objective - I need a truck for about an afternoon about once every other year. I can't even invent uses for that truck...
Investment truck. Older, low miles trucks of that era are absolutely appreciating in value. My '97 F350, CCLB, 7.3 Powerstroke, 115k miles, is almost certainly worth more than I paid for it now. Pre-particulate filter, pre-urea-injection, just an honest engine that will last forever if well maintained.
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The trick for me would be to keep it out of the weather. When it goes up for sale, I'm still considering it.