Author Topic: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.  (Read 1295487 times)

Zamboni

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #3100 on: April 05, 2023, 07:23:48 PM »
My grandfather did a similar thing: gave an "advance" inheritance to one of four siblings who asked for it. Grandfather wrote it all up formally and spelled it all out in the documents. My grandfather was a no-nonsense kind of guy.

So that advance was supposed to be subtracted from that brother's share. But then, after the funeral, there was drama. Brother didn't want that paperwork honored, wanted the total just divided equally. He manipulated a sister into lobbying others that he "needed" the money more than his siblings. There was a big kerfuffle. In the end, grandfather's documentation was honored by the executor lawyer who was handling the distributions. Overall it wasn't good for sibling harmony, though. And that was with a batch of siblings who did get along well before it all went down, while this is two sibling who already don't seem to like each other?

If your DH wants to give the money away now, which I don't oppose and you don't seem to oppose it either, then my vote is to give both brothers bigger Christmas gifts annually, no strings attached. A fee-based financial advisor can let you know an amount that makes sense tax-wise. DH can use tax issues as the excuse for not just forking it all over now. Younger brother may have to save up and wait a couple more years to buy a house, but personally I think it's not a good time to buy right now given the real estate market indicators. If he can't handle putting it in a 5% CD and saving it up for a couple years and wastes it on hookers and blow (or jetskis or a new car etc), then he shouldn't be buying a house anyway because it shows he he doesn't have the discipline to keep it maintained.

Just my opinion, and your opinion is probably different, but I have witnessed it play out already.

Captain FIRE

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #3101 on: April 05, 2023, 07:42:03 PM »
Nobody but my DH would care about having a ruined relationship with his older son.  He is an asshole. 

Is DH also ok with this guaranteeing the two will never mend fences, but instead that he will be directly creating a further wedge between them? Is he ok with you/OS/YS being tied up in litigation, wasting everyone's time and money after he's gone?

Siebrie

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #3102 on: April 06, 2023, 05:39:17 AM »
My parents are meticulous: sister gets financial help buying babystuff? I get the same amount. I get financial help moving abroad? Sister gets the same amount. Within a week all is equal. Sister and I are estranged (she was estranged with our parents for a while, too. Our parents still gave her money whenever they helped me), but at least we won't have to have this argument, ever. It helps.

RetiredAt63

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #3103 on: April 06, 2023, 07:36:59 AM »
My parents are meticulous: sister gets financial help buying babystuff? I get the same amount. I get financial help moving abroad? Sister gets the same amount. Within a week all is equal. Sister and I are estranged (she was estranged with our parents for a while, too. Our parents still gave her money whenever they helped me), but at least we won't have to have this argument, ever. It helps.

Mine were the same, without the estrangement.   It definitely helps.

iris lily

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #3104 on: April 06, 2023, 08:06:41 AM »
@Catbert - do you have any concerns of you/your husband needing that money for long term care? What would happen in the event your medical or care expenses exceed your shared and/or individual pots of money? Given how expensive & unpredictable LTC can be, I always struggle with the idea of giving away part of an "inheritance" before you die.
This, so much this.

I cannot relate to people who think that big clump of money sitting in mom and dadĎs account when theyíre 65 will not be needed when theyíre 85 years old, 95 years old, etc.

I struggle myself with how much to give away now, but knowing that I have Alzheimerís disease rampant in my family, I donít want to short change my DH in taking care of me in old age.
« Last Edit: April 06, 2023, 03:09:39 PM by iris lily »

tygertygertyger

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #3105 on: April 06, 2023, 08:10:18 AM »
My parents are meticulous: sister gets financial help buying babystuff? I get the same amount. I get financial help moving abroad? Sister gets the same amount. Within a week all is equal. Sister and I are estranged (she was estranged with our parents for a while, too. Our parents still gave her money whenever they helped me), but at least we won't have to have this argument, ever. It helps.

Mine were the same, without the estrangement.   It definitely helps.

My partner's parents keep a mental running tab on this same stuff. The only difference is that partner's sibling has kids, and we don't. So the grandkids have a different pot, but the siblings get equalized.

Kind of to a hilarious extent. I get the impression that sibling has needed a bit more help than my partner has, so we get sudden unexpected offers for them to cover things for us - like recently we mentioned that our garage roof leaks, so we'd better start getting some quotes for a new roof. They offered to cover the expense when we figure it out. It's incredibly nice of them, but always surprising to me. My family in general does not offer financial assistance, so it's taken some getting used to.

TheGrimSqueaker

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #3106 on: April 06, 2023, 01:49:51 PM »
My parents are meticulous: sister gets financial help buying babystuff? I get the same amount. I get financial help moving abroad? Sister gets the same amount. Within a week all is equal. Sister and I are estranged (she was estranged with our parents for a while, too. Our parents still gave her money whenever they helped me), but at least we won't have to have this argument, ever. It helps.

I have parents like that, but only in one direction. It makes me sad and nervous whenever they give me a gift that costs more than what I give to them, because I know my brother has done something self-destructive again, and they're rushing to his rescue with money. There have been times I've been sick or injured, and would have appreciated a generous gift, but since my brother was doing well obviously help isn't as available to me. It's kind of messed up. If my brother goofs up, I get "help" I don't need or want. If he's doing well, help is not available to me even if I need and want it.

Catbert

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #3107 on: April 06, 2023, 02:22:29 PM »
I'm glad that I've helped to add new life and drama to this thread.  I'll clarify a few things and then I'm done.

You're all right, older son should be told.  I'll convince my DH to tell him if/when younger son finds a home to buy and is ready to go into escrow.  That may never happen given the state of our real estate market.

Several people have mentioned possible litigation and need for paperwork.  The "his" portion of our money is all in a Fidelity account with TOD or beneficiary designations.  There's no probate or executor involved.  Sure, I guess either older or younger son could sue, however, neither has money for an attorney.  Certainly in California you're not legally obligated to leave any money to your adult children or treat them all either fairly or evenly.  (I believe this is different in some other countries.) Once he makes the gift to younger son the TODs and beneficiaries will be changed to older son. 

Ihamo is correct no gift tax would be required.  I would need to file a form with our taxes showing the gift over 17K (34K as a couple) and it would be counted against the 12 million and change estate tax exemption.

The dividing of "his" portion between his sons is pretty straightforward.  I'll divide each holding (money market, tIRA, Roth IRA) in half and then determine what it will cost us in taxes and subtract from the total. 


jinga nation

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #3108 on: April 20, 2023, 10:44:21 AM »
I've always believed that help today is better than money later, if there's a genuine need (not enabling) or if it's the kind of thing that lasts.

My own preference, with regard to my adult daughter and niece, is to provide help when they're young, when they really need it, and when the assistance results in something that lasts. Investing now for a grandchild's education seems to me like an effective use of money, and I'd rather do that and see them benefit from it (or at least have a shot) instead of either squandering the resources on plastic crap or watching someone I love take on unnecessary debt.

The big three-- education, housing, and vehicles-- are increasing in price even faster than the rate of inflation, and one reason why is that it's become commonplace to pay for these things with borrowed money. Whether I (or my heirs) pay with cash or with borrowed money won't change the price point one iota.

While I'm not a fan of the Economic Outpatient Care situation that @Catbert seems to be in, as it isn't "inheritance" per the definition, I'm in agreement with TGS. Current market economic conditions have to be considered.

Channel-Z

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #3109 on: May 22, 2023, 10:30:54 AM »
My dad died recently, and we're not at the inheritance drama stage yet. But, the day his death notice appeared in the paper, a home health aide who had taken care of him from time to time showed up at the door asking about his paintings (not for sale, not yet anyway). Scavengers move quickly!

GreenEggs

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #3110 on: May 22, 2023, 11:21:55 AM »
My dad died recently, and we're not at the inheritance drama stage yet. But, the day his death notice appeared in the paper, a home health aide who had taken care of him from time to time showed up at the door asking about his paintings (not for sale, not yet anyway). Scavengers move quickly!


That's quite rude.


My father passed a year, or so, before Covid-19 struck, fortunately.  He was in a wonderful nursing facility for the last year of his life.  I was the executor & I felt that it would be nice to gift something to his two favorite nurses.  He'd gifted a number of folks before his health had declined so, so I knew he would have been very happy to share a bit more with his nurses.  Of course, I had my brother approve it beforehand.  Individual gifts were against the facilities policy, so I privately contacted each and hand-delivered a card to their homes.


The gifts were generous, but in hindsight, I would have made them larger.  Theirs is such an honorable and difficult profession.

ATtiny85

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #3111 on: May 22, 2023, 05:30:14 PM »
My dad died recently, and we're not at the inheritance drama stage yet. But, the day his death notice appeared in the paper, a home health aide who had taken care of him from time to time showed up at the door asking about his paintings (not for sale, not yet anyway). Scavengers move quickly!

Sorry for your loss.

Thatís a pretty gutsy move. Iíd like to think their heart was in the right place somehow, but sheesh.

charis

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #3112 on: May 22, 2023, 05:37:01 PM »
My dad died recently, and we're not at the inheritance drama stage yet. But, the day his death notice appeared in the paper, a home health aide who had taken care of him from time to time showed up at the door asking about his paintings (not for sale, not yet anyway). Scavengers move quickly!

Sorry for your loss.

Thatís a pretty gutsy move. Iíd like to think their heart was in the right place somehow, but sheesh.

I think I am reading this wrong?  I first thought that he was a painter and the home health aide wanted to buy one of his paintings after his death, which sounds sweet. 

ATtiny85

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #3113 on: May 22, 2023, 05:43:00 PM »
My dad died recently, and we're not at the inheritance drama stage yet. But, the day his death notice appeared in the paper, a home health aide who had taken care of him from time to time showed up at the door asking about his paintings (not for sale, not yet anyway). Scavengers move quickly!

Sorry for your loss.

Thatís a pretty gutsy move. Iíd like to think their heart was in the right place somehow, but sheesh.

I think I am reading this wrong?  I first thought that he was a painter and the home health aide wanted to buy one of his paintings after his death, which sounds sweet.

I doubt Channel-Z would have posted it if it was sweet. I view all posts on this thread with my super pessimistic lens. Iíll be glad if you are correct in your first thought, as Green Eggs said, the work they do is otherworldly.

Siebrie

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #3114 on: May 23, 2023, 02:20:23 AM »
My Dad passed a fortnight ago. Estranged Sister and I spent a week at Mum's to sort the service and cremation. Funnily enough, Sis and I work together really well, but the conversations other than Dad's passing were only an inch deep: 'what shall we have for dinner tonight?', 'will you take the trash out?'

Sister was told I was executor of our parents' wills about 6 months ago, and was really upset, even offering to pay for 'rectifying' their wills. Parents refused her 'offer'. A few days after Dad's passing, Mum called the Notary who made the wills - while Sis and I could listen in - to ask what needed to be done, and he said 'nothing' :). Battle postponed until Mum passes :D

Sis is and always has been jealous of me. There is no reason, from the outside she has a better life than me: husband makes a lot of money, 3 kids are doing well, she had 2 small businesses doing what she loved, nice vacations, nice house, on top of housework, time for voluntary work (school parents' association), husband that spoils her (surprise trips to Paris and Dubai, for instance :)). Whatever she puts her mind and hands to, she can do.

The jealousy I noticed the week of the funeral service: she hid my new pair of trousers so I couldn't wear them to the funeral service where I was reading the In Memoriam. I had checked my suitcase 3 times before the service, and then found them when I packed to leave the next day; and in the family group picture we took after the funeral dinner, she photoshopped some extra weight on me :D How petty can you get? (BTW: she's 50, I'm 51)
« Last Edit: May 23, 2023, 06:46:54 AM by Siebrie »

AlanStache

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #3115 on: May 23, 2023, 07:23:23 AM »
The jealousy I noticed the week of the funeral service: she hid my new pair of trousers so I couldn't wear them to the funeral service where I was reading the In Memoriam. I had checked my suitcase 3 times before the service, and then found them when I packed to leave the next day; and in the family group picture we took after the funeral dinner, she photoshopped some extra weight on me :D How petty can you get? (BTW: she's 50, I'm 51)

Wtf?  Is she one of those who think they can just joke around about anything anytime, and "you need to lighten up-bro"? 

Siebrie

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #3116 on: May 23, 2023, 07:29:48 AM »
No, the level is more that of a 3-year old, who knows she's not allowed to hit or bite, so destroys a drawing you made or your favourite book.

GreenEggs

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #3117 on: May 23, 2023, 07:36:35 AM »
No, the level is more that of a 3-year old, who knows she's not allowed to hit or bite, so destroys a drawing you made or your favourite book.




It's obvious why your parents chose you over her.  Parents know their children. 

Dicey

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #3118 on: May 23, 2023, 07:55:08 AM »
My Dad passed a fortnight ago. Estranged Sister and I spent a week at Mum's to sort the service and cremation. Funnily enough, Sis and I work together really well, but the conversations other than Dad's passing were only an inch deep: 'what shall we have for dinner tonight?', 'will you take the trash out?'

Sister was told I was executor of our parents' wills about 6 months ago, and was really upset, even offering to pay for 'rectifying' their wills. Parents refused her 'offer'. A few days after Dad's passing, Mum called the Notary who made the wills - while Sis and I could listen in - to ask what needed to be done, and he said 'nothing' :). Battle postponed until Mum passes :D

Sis is and always has been jealous of me. There is no reason, from the outside she has a better life than me: husband makes a lot of money, 3 kids are doing well, she had 2 small businesses doing what she loved, nice vacations, nice house, on top of housework, time for voluntary work (school parents' association), husband that spoils her (surprise trips to Paris and Dubai, for instance :)). Whatever she puts her mind and hands to, she can do.

The jealousy I noticed the week of the funeral service: she hid my new pair of trousers so I couldn't wear them to the funeral service where I was reading the In Memoriam. I had checked my suitcase 3 times before the service, and then found them when I packed to leave the next day; and in the family group picture we took after the funeral dinner, she photoshopped some extra weight on me :D How petty can you get? (BTW: she's 50, I'm 51)
You know her better, but I would confront that shit head-on. Writing a letter might be cathartic. Sorry for your loss.
« Last Edit: May 23, 2023, 08:01:06 PM by Dicey »

mm1970

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #3119 on: May 23, 2023, 03:27:01 PM »
The jealousy I noticed the week of the funeral service: she hid my new pair of trousers so I couldn't wear them to the funeral service where I was reading the In Memoriam. I had checked my suitcase 3 times before the service, and then found them when I packed to leave the next day; and in the family group picture we took after the funeral dinner, she photoshopped some extra weight on me :D How petty can you get? (BTW: she's 50, I'm 51)

Wtf?  Is she one of those who think they can just joke around about anything anytime, and "you need to lighten up-bro"?

Seriously, this is demented.  Photoshopping on weight and hiding your pants??

MaybeBabyMustache

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #3120 on: May 23, 2023, 08:35:41 PM »
The jealousy I noticed the week of the funeral service: she hid my new pair of trousers so I couldn't wear them to the funeral service where I was reading the In Memoriam. I had checked my suitcase 3 times before the service, and then found them when I packed to leave the next day; and in the family group picture we took after the funeral dinner, she photoshopped some extra weight on me :D How petty can you get? (BTW: she's 50, I'm 51)

Wtf?  Is she one of those who think they can just joke around about anything anytime, and "you need to lighten up-bro"?

Seriously, this is demented. Photoshopping on weight and hiding your pants??

Yeah, this is well outside the bounds of normal behavior. If you told me she was 13, I'd think she still had some growing up to do, but understand the pants hiding as overall maturity. At 50, it's just beyond.

Siebrie

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #3121 on: May 24, 2023, 01:29:17 AM »
You're all quite right, and we have suggested therapy several times, even agreeing when she 'sarcastically' invited my parents and/or me for family therapy, but she never followed up.

Last year, she spent 6 months training to become a 112 (911/999) police telephone responder, and they failed her at the end.

She was adopted into our family at age 3; our Mum is a social worker with a lot of experience and she managed to talk Sis through her issues and unjumble everything in her head until Sis was about 27. Now she has a husband who 'saved' her from her horrible family and life; he's behind her 100% (which is good for her, but not so much for the family dynamic).

When I was heavily pregnant with dd2, my parents were staying with us. Her eldest had a birthday party and my parents planned on going, and taking my eldest (2 years old at the time). Sis forbade them to bring my eldest, because the attention would no longer be solely on her kids (that's a quote). Parents did attend the party, because they did not want to punish the grandchildren for their mother's behaviour, but I broke with Sis, and soon after my parents and Sis broke, too.

After a few years, and at Mum's insistence, my parents and Sis have some form of regular contact. Mum insisted because Sis has no anchors, no people who can (bother to) stand up to her if she deviates from generally accepted behaviour.
« Last Edit: May 24, 2023, 02:11:40 AM by Siebrie »

Freedomin5

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #3122 on: May 24, 2023, 04:41:49 AM »
Sounds like she still has issues to unjumble.

saguaro

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #3123 on: May 25, 2023, 10:21:44 AM »
Sounds like she still has issues to unjumble.

This sounds like my own sister to be honest.   She's always had issues, no compunction about behaving badly, we hoped she would grow up but never did.

After a few years, and at Mum's insistence, my parents and Sis have some form of regular contact. Mum insisted because Sis has no anchors, no people who can (bother to) stand up to her if she deviates from generally accepted behaviour.

Same with our sister but even that had its limits. My parents tried to get her to curtail her bad behavior, but in the end they just threw up their hands and told the rest of us to deal with it because "family".   We did but now that our parents are gone, my youngest sibling finally decided to break ties completely for her own well being.  I maintain some contact but have limited it in recent months for similar reasons.   BIL (sister's husband) left the ring a long time ago, there's no one to speak up and check her behaviour not that it really worked that well anyway. 
« Last Edit: May 25, 2023, 11:19:19 AM by saguaro »

SwordGuy

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #3124 on: May 25, 2023, 11:35:22 AM »
Sounds like she still has issues to unjumble.

This sounds like my own sister to be honest.   She's always had issues, no compunction about behaving badly, we hoped she would grow up but never did.

After a few years, and at Mum's insistence, my parents and Sis have some form of regular contact. Mum insisted because Sis has no anchors, no people who can (bother to) stand up to her if she deviates from generally accepted behaviour.

Same with our sister but even that had its limits. My parents tried to get her to curtail her bad behavior, but in the end they just threw up their hands and told the rest of us to deal with it because "family".   We did but now that our parents are gone, my youngest sibling finally decided to break ties completely for her own well being.  I maintain some contact but have limited it in recent months for similar reasons.   BIL (sister's husband) left the ring a long time ago, there's no one to speak up and check her behaviour not that it really worked that well anyway.

I understand!  My wife's family (except for her younger sister) are all hoping that when their mom dies, the funeral will happen and the first the youngest sister knows about it is when she gets a big check from the executor, with a letter that says cash this unchallenged or get nothing.  None of them want to deal with her in any capacity for any time for any reason. 

And yes, having her miss the funeral is a reasonable wish given her behavior at her dad's funeral.

TheGrimSqueaker

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #3125 on: May 25, 2023, 01:12:00 PM »
Sounds like she still has issues to unjumble.

This sounds like my own sister to be honest.   She's always had issues, no compunction about behaving badly, we hoped she would grow up but never did.

After a few years, and at Mum's insistence, my parents and Sis have some form of regular contact. Mum insisted because Sis has no anchors, no people who can (bother to) stand up to her if she deviates from generally accepted behaviour.

Same with our sister but even that had its limits. My parents tried to get her to curtail her bad behavior, but in the end they just threw up their hands and told the rest of us to deal with it because "family".   We did but now that our parents are gone, my youngest sibling finally decided to break ties completely for her own well being.  I maintain some contact but have limited it in recent months for similar reasons.   BIL (sister's husband) left the ring a long time ago, there's no one to speak up and check her behaviour not that it really worked that well anyway.

Classic controlling parent move: they couldn't control the person who was behaving badly, so they shifted their effort to control the victims of the bad behavior, to manipulate them into absorbing more of it.

saguaro

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #3126 on: May 25, 2023, 01:48:26 PM »
Sounds like she still has issues to unjumble.

This sounds like my own sister to be honest.   She's always had issues, no compunction about behaving badly, we hoped she would grow up but never did.

After a few years, and at Mum's insistence, my parents and Sis have some form of regular contact. Mum insisted because Sis has no anchors, no people who can (bother to) stand up to her if she deviates from generally accepted behaviour.

Same with our sister but even that had its limits. My parents tried to get her to curtail her bad behavior, but in the end they just threw up their hands and told the rest of us to deal with it because "family".   We did but now that our parents are gone, my youngest sibling finally decided to break ties completely for her own well being.  I maintain some contact but have limited it in recent months for similar reasons.   BIL (sister's husband) left the ring a long time ago, there's no one to speak up and check her behaviour not that it really worked that well anyway.

Classic controlling parent move: they couldn't control the person who was behaving badly, so they shifted their effort to control the victims of the bad behavior, to manipulate them into absorbing more of it.

Exactly this.  And it never stopped, parents continued to make excuses and allow her to run roughshod until the day they died.   My youngest sister bore the brunt of it because she was always the easier target even after moving 1200 miles away.    This is the main reason for the estrangement, though there are other issues at play as well.

When asked about how my late mother, who ironically worried about family rifts, would feel about this state of affairs, my answer was "she would not like it but she shouldn't be surprised".   
« Last Edit: May 25, 2023, 03:09:27 PM by saguaro »