Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.

[charis]

Maybe not exactly drama, but my 9 year-old informed me the other day that he'll be inheriting his grandparents' house.  How am I supposed to threaten him with living in a van down by the river if he knows he already knows he has a has a house??


In all seriousness, I did caution him that a lot of things could happen between now.

Don't count your chickens before they hatch. A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.

Also, just because grandparents have said it, it doesn't mean anything unless your 9-year-old has seen their will, which is what I would tell my kiddo if she said something so presumptuous. :D

Also, I'd tell my kid that means she has to be REALLY NICE to her grandparents from now on to make sure she doesn't get taken out of their will. LOL!

This is pretty much what I told him.  My husband wasn't at all surprised when I told him what the kid said, so I think there's probably something to it. Who knows what the situation will look like next month or next year.  I can't remember if I've mentioned my BIL on the anti-mustacian hall-of-fame thread about relatives, but it's a doozy.  I've always placed the odds of him sucking them dry at greater than zero.  At which point, my husband and I will be taking care of them because they live next door.

Um, what?  I have so many questions.

Honestly, I don't know if that means that the house that they live in is supposed to go to my husband and then to my son.  Or if it's supposed to go directly to my son.  I'll worry about it when, god forbid, something actually happens to them.  The will and/or executor has been changed several times in the last few years.  I'm not playing that game and I wish they wouldn't do that to my kid.  And like I said, there's still the matter of my BIL, who needs more economic outpatient care than we do.

He wasn't surprised? How has your husband not discussed with you a situation where your kid might directly inherit a house, but your young son seems to be in the loop? This seems like something you should at least know and have at least a vague plan for in case it happens.

[SwordGuy]

Maybe not exactly drama, but my 9 year-old informed me the other day that he'll be inheriting his grandparents' house.  How am I supposed to threaten him with living in a van down by the river if he knows he already knows he has a has a house??


In all seriousness, I did caution him that a lot of things could happen between now.

Don't count your chickens before they hatch. A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.

Also, just because grandparents have said it, it doesn't mean anything unless your 9-year-old has seen their will, which is what I would tell my kiddo if she said something so presumptuous. :D

Also, I'd tell my kid that means she has to be REALLY NICE to her grandparents from now on to make sure she doesn't get taken out of their will. LOL!

I think you were joking on that last bit.   

But for those who didn't catch that, here's my take on that suggestion, were it offered in all seriousness.

That's a HORRIBLE thing to teach a child!   What an awesome way to teach a kid to be suck-up lying shitweasel waiting for someone to die to get an inheritance.   Read a novel or watch a documentary on how warped people get when they're focused on an inheritance.   It's sickening.

How about teaching them that their friendship and their kindness is NOT FOR SALE.    Teach them their kindness is given to everyoneone until proven unworthy of it and their friendship is only given to those worthy of it.   Make sure they know a polite but firm way to express this if said wealthy person tries to manipulate them with "the will".

And teach them that if they want a fortune, it's up to them to go out and earn it, save it, and invest it.  Plan their future as the result of their own actions, not someone's death.   

[Sugaree]

Maybe not exactly drama, but my 9 year-old informed me the other day that he'll be inheriting his grandparents' house.  How am I supposed to threaten him with living in a van down by the river if he knows he already knows he has a has a house??


In all seriousness, I did caution him that a lot of things could happen between now.

Don't count your chickens before they hatch. A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.

Also, just because grandparents have said it, it doesn't mean anything unless your 9-year-old has seen their will, which is what I would tell my kiddo if she said something so presumptuous. :D

Also, I'd tell my kid that means she has to be REALLY NICE to her grandparents from now on to make sure she doesn't get taken out of their will. LOL!

This is pretty much what I told him.  My husband wasn't at all surprised when I told him what the kid said, so I think there's probably something to it. Who knows what the situation will look like next month or next year.  I can't remember if I've mentioned my BIL on the anti-mustacian hall-of-fame thread about relatives, but it's a doozy.  I've always placed the odds of him sucking them dry at greater than zero.  At which point, my husband and I will be taking care of them because they live next door.

Um, what?  I have so many questions.

Honestly, I don't know if that means that the house that they live in is supposed to go to my husband and then to my son.  Or if it's supposed to go directly to my son.  I'll worry about it when, god forbid, something actually happens to them.  The will and/or executor has been changed several times in the last few years.  I'm not playing that game and I wish they wouldn't do that to my kid.  And like I said, there's still the matter of my BIL, who needs more economic outpatient care than we do.

He wasn't surprised? How has your husband not discussed with you a situation where your kid might directly inherit a house, but your young son seems to be in the loop? This seems like something you should at least know and have at least a vague plan for in case it happens.

My FIL can't decide what he wants to do with his estate and is somewhat secretive about it to boot.  It's changed several times over the last few years and I told my husband awhile back that I'm not borrowing trouble about it anymore.  I do have some general  contingency plans for the most likely outcomes, but nothing concrete until it happens.  The only thing I've said about it is that if FIL follows through with the plan of leaving all the property to DH and all the cash to my BIL that we can't afford the property taxes and something will have to be sold. 

Given my BIL's situation, I'm not counting on DH or DS inheriting anything and make our own plans accordingly.

[TheGrimSqueaker]

My FIL can't decide what he wants to do with his estate and is somewhat secretive about it to boot.  It's changed several times over the last few years and I told my husband awhile back that I'm not borrowing trouble about it anymore.  I do have some general  contingency plans for the most likely outcomes, but nothing concrete until it happens.  The only thing I've said about it is that if FIL follows through with the plan of leaving all the property to DH and all the cash to my BIL that we can't afford the property taxes and something will have to be sold. 

Given my BIL's situation, I'm not counting on DH or DS inheriting anything and make our own plans accordingly.

You might want to pass along that insight to your son. He doesn't necessarily know what's in the will (or even if there is one). People often change their wills. People's needs often change as well: Grandpa may decide to buy a condo in a senior community, and most people who do that sell the home they've got. Others do a reverse mortgage to provide end of life care, so after they die they no longer own the property. Between that and bailing out your brother-in-law, there might not be much to inherit.

[Sugaree]

My FIL can't decide what he wants to do with his estate and is somewhat secretive about it to boot.  It's changed several times over the last few years and I told my husband awhile back that I'm not borrowing trouble about it anymore.  I do have some general  contingency plans for the most likely outcomes, but nothing concrete until it happens.  The only thing I've said about it is that if FIL follows through with the plan of leaving all the property to DH and all the cash to my BIL that we can't afford the property taxes and something will have to be sold. 

Given my BIL's situation, I'm not counting on DH or DS inheriting anything and make our own plans accordingly.

You might want to pass along that insight to your son. He doesn't necessarily know what's in the will (or even if there is one). People often change their wills. People's needs often change as well: Grandpa may decide to buy a condo in a senior community, and most people who do that sell the home they've got. Others do a reverse mortgage to provide end of life care, so after they die they no longer own the property. Between that and bailing out your brother-in-law, there might not be much to inherit.

Which is why I warned him that a lot of things can happen between now and then.

[Villanelle]

I just had a visit with my parents.  My sister is named as their executor.  They informed me that they are adding her name to some of their accounts (mostly their main checking and savings) and asked if I was okay with that.  My mom went on to explain that after her dad passed, she was so glad he had added her a few months before his death because it made it very easy to do things like pay his outstanding electric bill, property taxes, and other things that might be due ASAP, before the estate is settled enough to open access to those funds.  My mom is an only child and there were no other beneficiaries to anything so it was all going to her anyway. 

I told my parents I have zero problem with this, and that I have no concerns at all about my sister trying to use this to take money that isn't intended to be hers.  The intent is still a 50/50 split and I believe she knows that and if there is $20,000 in the accounts with her name on them, she will consider that as $20,000, minus whatever goes to estate expenses, of her half.  So if the rest of the estate is $1m, she would acknowledge that I'm entitled to $510k of it, even if on paper it may look like I should only get $500k.

If not, she's an asshole, and I'll still be just fine. 

It's nice to feel quite confident about how family will behave, and also not to have to fret over what happens if they hypothetically don't act honestly (other than the damage to the relationship and the disappointment in someone) because I'm fine financially either way.

[Captain FIRE]

@Villanelle Glad you're fine with it.  I'd think a better solution to address both potential issues would be to put your name on some accounts and hers on others.  I'm not tax-savy, but can she even give you the hypothetical $ that would not go through the estate or would that trigger gift tax etc issues if it's larger than anticipated?  For that matter, by putting her on all of the accounts does that already trigger any issues?

[SwordGuy]

My experience was that it took a couple of weeks to get the death certificate.  A few more days to get the document appointing me the executor and -- with copies of both -- I had all the access I needed.   

I'm suspect that contacting the utility company in the interim, if needed, would be sufficient.   Or just write the check, sign their name and print your own followed by "- Executor"  and I suspect it will go thru regardless.  Nobody is going to give you a hassle for doing that.

[Zamboni]

Maybe not exactly drama, but my 9 year-old informed me the other day that he'll be inheriting his grandparents' house.  How am I supposed to threaten him with living in a van down by the river if he knows he already knows he has a has a house??


In all seriousness, I did caution him that a lot of things could happen between now.

My Mom also told my daughter this same thing that she was going to will daughter her house to live in recently . . . thankfully I was sitting right there at the time. She has certainly said that verbatim to me previously, and also separately to my brother, and I happen to know that she has also said the same to one of my adult nephews, which I told my daughter about when we got back in our car. Basically, yes she owns a little house, but otherwise Granny is poor and has always been full of $hit about what she is going to do, so my daughter is best to just smile and nod at her but not believe what she says. I explained that her ideas about her house is because she is old and batty (which is only partly true . . . she's always been manipulative like that, but it's easier to blame her dementia to my daughter.) So, my daughter doesn't take what Granny says very seriously, and thankfully my daughter is also much more diplomatic and level headed than I have ever been, so I'm not that worried about any sort of disappointment or scrap later either way.

My Mom has 12 Grandchildren, btw, 10 of whom live very near to her home. No reason to be telling this person and then that one that she will give them her house to live in . . . unless she thinks 16 people are going to merrily move into her tiny home when she dies.

[Siebrie]

@Villanelle If your sister's name is on the account, what happens if she were to die or become unfit to deal with financial matters before your parents? Would they 'inherit' their own money? Would it go to her partner or children?

[Villanelle]

@Villanelle If your sister's name is on the account, what happens if she were to die or become unfit to deal with financial matters before your parents? Would they 'inherit' their own money? Would it go to her partner or children?

It seems like the same would happen, but in reverse.  If parents die, the account goes to her.  If she dies, it would go [back to] to them. 

And again, since this is a relatively insignificant portion of the total inheritance so if it goes awry somehow, it isn't especially meaningful. 

[TomTX]

@Villanelle If your sister's name is on the account, what happens if she were to die or become unfit to deal with financial matters before your parents? Would they 'inherit' their own money? Would it go to her partner or children?

It seems like the same would happen, but in reverse.  If parents die, the account goes to her.  If she dies, it would go [back to] to them. 

And again, since this is a relatively insignificant portion of the total inheritance so if it goes awry somehow, it isn't especially meaningful.

I'm the executor for my parents, and I'm on one of their bank accounts to more easily handle immediate costs. It's somewhere around 2% of their NW.

Just about every other account has payable-on-death beneficiaries, divided up roughly equally among all the kids. There will be some evening out to do and distribution of items - but really, there simply won't be any big chunks of money to fight over now that they sold the house. The vast majority will bypass the estate.

[Goldielocks]

Something to discuss with a lawyer, if you haven't already, is either specifically mentioning that BadFamilyMember gets nothing (or leaving them one specific and relatively inexpensive item or amount), and/or including a clause that anyone who sues over the will receives nothing.  The former can be helpful in making intentions clear if it is a close family member, and the latter can disincentivize the greedy lawsuits.

Under the rules we have here in BC (Canada), as long as someone like that is not considered a dependent, it is better not to mention them at all in the will. As soon as someone's name is written in the will, they have the right to see the text and challenge it. If the state does not consider them to be a "usual" dependent, it would be much harder for them to challenge your will if they don't appear in it.

Obviously, rules are different in different places.

Yes... but... Don't most wills with assets need to be probated, and once probated become public record, so vast majority of people will be able to request a copy of the will anyway, even if unrelated?

Some estates have small assets and no real estate and can bypass probate...but anything with significant money usually can't be kept fully private...

(or maybe I am misinformed about BC?)

[Mighty Eyebrows]

Under the rules we have here in BC (Canada), as long as someone like that is not considered a dependent, it is better not to mention them at all in the will. As soon as someone's name is written in the will, they have the right to see the text and challenge it. If the state does not consider them to be a "usual" dependent, it would be much harder for them to challenge your will if they don't appear in it.

Obviously, rules are different in different places.

Yes... but... Don't most wills with assets need to be probated, and once probated become public record, so vast majority of people will be able to request a copy of the will anyway, even if unrelated?

I think you are right about probate eventually making the proceedings public, but it takes doing a specific search (for a fee). What I meant is that putting someone's name in the will gives them much greater legal standing to challenge the estate in court. Nothing can prevent an asshole from suing you for any old reason, but you can sure make it harder for them.

BC Court search here:
https://justice.gov.bc.ca/cso/esearch/civil/deceasedSearch.do

[Reynold]

I just had a visit with my parents.  My sister is named as their executor.  They informed me that they are adding her name to some of their accounts (mostly their main checking and savings) and asked if I was okay with that.  My mom went on to explain that after her dad passed, she was so glad he had added her a few months before his death because it made it very easy to do things like pay his outstanding electric bill, property taxes, and other things that might be due ASAP, before the estate is settled enough to open access to those funds. 

It might be a better idea to have your parents give your sister power of attorney for that account, rather than adding her as an account holder.  That will still let her operate the account as needed, without muddying the waters as to whether that account is part of the estate for purposes of things like estate taxes, division of assets, and such.  I'm not an expert on that, but have seen that discussed in articles on the subject. 

I sadly don't have very exciting drama to report for this thread, when my last parent passed away, my siblings and I divided things up with zero issues.  Maybe a bit more on my DW's side, when her last parent passed away, her sister bought the family house from the estate to use as a summer place.  They have in writing, though, that the contents have not been divided and still belong to both of them.  At some point dividing up the stuff will still have to happen, and then my SIL will want to resolve it all in about half an hour and my DW will want to resolve it all in about a week of detailed negotiations and discussions, so I see some possible issues there.  Also, my DW feels that her sister doesn't do an adequate job of trimming the bushes at the familial house. . .  :) 

[Missy B]

Under the rules we have here in BC (Canada), as long as someone like that is not considered a dependent, it is better not to mention them at all in the will. As soon as someone's name is written in the will, they have the right to see the text and challenge it. If the state does not consider them to be a "usual" dependent, it would be much harder for them to challenge your will if they don't appear in it.

Obviously, rules are different in different places.

Yes... but... Don't most wills with assets need to be probated, and once probated become public record, so vast majority of people will be able to request a copy of the will anyway, even if unrelated?

I think you are right about probate eventually making the proceedings public, but it takes doing a specific search (for a fee). What I meant is that putting someone's name in the will gives them much greater legal standing to challenge the estate in court. Nothing can prevent an asshole from suing you for any old reason, but you can sure make it harder for them.

BC Court search here:
https://justice.gov.bc.ca/cso/esearch/civil/deceasedSearch.do

Anyone who would have been entitled to a claim if the decedent had died intestate is entitled to see the will, whether they are in it or not.

[Missy B]

My experience was that it took a couple of weeks to get the death certificate.  A few more days to get the document appointing me the executor and -- with copies of both -- I had all the access I needed.   

I'm suspect that contacting the utility company in the interim, if needed, would be sufficient.   Or just write the check, sign their name and print your own followed by "- Executor"  and I suspect it will go thru regardless.  Nobody is going to give you a hassle for doing that.

Speaking from BC here. Accounts that aren't joint are frozen on death with the exception of funeral expenses only. The executor cannot write cheques on the decedents account, period. The executor cannot even write cheques on "The Estate of..." account either, until probate is completed.

I assume if you use a law firm that they'll front some of the cash needed for filing and to maintain the estate, and bill you through the nose for the privilege later. Otherwise, without a joint account the executor is on the hook for costs until probate is complete.

[SwordGuy]

My experience was that it took a couple of weeks to get the death certificate.  A few more days to get the document appointing me the executor and -- with copies of both -- I had all the access I needed.   

I'm suspect that contacting the utility company in the interim, if needed, would be sufficient.   Or just write the check, sign their name and print your own followed by "- Executor"  and I suspect it will go thru regardless.  Nobody is going to give you a hassle for doing that.

Speaking from BC here. Accounts that aren't joint are frozen on death with the exception of funeral expenses only. The executor cannot write cheques on the decedents account, period. The executor cannot even write cheques on "The Estate of..." account either, until probate is completed.

I assume if you use a law firm that they'll front some of the cash needed for filing and to maintain the estate, and bill you through the nose for the privilege later. Otherwise, without a joint account the executor is on the hook for costs until probate is complete.

Wow.  That's awful!    I just did exactly what the attorney told me to do and the banks were ok with it too.

[Sugaree]

I'm just hoping the bank doesn't give me crap about depositing a check made out to him.  The insurance company had to cancel the policies in his name and rewrite them in my name.  So they're issuing a refund for the unused portion of the old policies in his name and charging me for the new ones. 

[Missy B]

My experience was that it took a couple of weeks to get the death certificate.  A few more days to get the document appointing me the executor and -- with copies of both -- I had all the access I needed.   

I'm suspect that contacting the utility company in the interim, if needed, would be sufficient.   Or just write the check, sign their name and print your own followed by "- Executor"  and I suspect it will go thru regardless.  Nobody is going to give you a hassle for doing that.

Speaking from BC here. Accounts that aren't joint are frozen on death with the exception of funeral expenses only. The executor cannot write cheques on the decedents account, period. The executor cannot even write cheques on "The Estate of..." account either, until probate is completed.

I assume if you use a law firm that they'll front some of the cash needed for filing and to maintain the estate, and bill you through the nose for the privilege later. Otherwise, without a joint account the executor is on the hook for costs until probate is complete.

Wow.  That's awful!    I just did exactly what the attorney told me to do and the banks were ok with it too.

It gets better :) You have to pay probate fees of 1.4% *before* you can access any value of the estate. Assuming probate has gone through by tax filing, hopefully you can pay the estate taxes from the value, but depending on timing you might have to file tax and pay first as well.

[Mighty Eyebrows]

Anyone who would have been entitled to a claim if the decedent had died intestate is entitled to see the will, whether they are in it or not.

Yes, which is why my original post has the line:
"...as long as someone like that is not considered a dependent..."

i.e. partner or child, etc.

Cousins and aunties can bugger off.

[SpeedReader]

"I just had a visit with my parents.  My sister is named as their executor.  They informed me that they are adding her name to some of their accounts (mostly their main checking and savings) and asked if I was okay with that...  I told my parents I have zero problem with this, and that I have no concerns at all about my sister trying to use this to take money that isn't intended to be hers... If not, she's an asshole, and I'll still be just fine."

My SIL knew very well that my MIL's will said to split her estate equally between the 3 kids.  She was the executor and the only one on MIL's accounts, which held most of her estate.Her attorney said she could keep the money, so she did.  DH got his 1/3rd share of the (modest) house sale and life insurance.  That influx of money revved up our ability to pay off our bills and eventually retire a little early.  Getting cheated out of the balance didn't matter much to us financially in the long run, but DH hasn't spoken to his sister since. 

I wonder sometimes if she thinks losing her brother was worth the money.

[AlanStache]

...

I wonder sometimes if she thinks losing her brother was worth the money.

It has taken me some time to learn that other people dont always know how much I dislike them, she may not understand that she lost a brother and she may think thinks they just drifted apart or will someday reconcile.    Sometimes its wroth taking a HIMARS to a bridge.

[Villanelle]

"I just had a visit with my parents.  My sister is named as their executor.  They informed me that they are adding her name to some of their accounts (mostly their main checking and savings) and asked if I was okay with that...  I told my parents I have zero problem with this, and that I have no concerns at all about my sister trying to use this to take money that isn't intended to be hers... If not, she's an asshole, and I'll still be just fine."

My SIL knew very well that my MIL's will said to split her estate equally between the 3 kids.  She was the executor and the only one on MIL's accounts, which held most of her estate.Her attorney said she could keep the money, so she did.  DH got his 1/3rd share of the (modest) house sale and life insurance.  That influx of money revved up our ability to pay off our bills and eventually retire a little early.  Getting cheated out of the balance didn't matter much to us financially in the long run, but DH hasn't spoken to his sister since. 

I wonder sometimes if she thinks losing her brother was worth the money.

I've had several conversations with my spouse (and several more with my friends as a vent frustrations and worries) about what will happen with his mother's estate when that time comes, hopefully no time soon.  There is very good reason to believe spouse's brother will be... challenging.  My best guess is he thinks that when his mom goes, he will be set, but we have very good reasons to believe the estate will be modest. So there will be far less money than he probably thinks he is getting, and it will be split in half.  Spouse's conclusion is generally that if his brother is difficult about it, tries to take more than his share in shady ways, or anything else, spouse will just sign everything over to BIL (to include dealing with all the legal hoops to jump through, taxes, etc., which there is no way BIL will be able to navigate well).  And then walk away and basically say, "that was the price of having me in your life in any way at all.  Lose my number."  That's easier said than done, and of course I hope against hope that BIL is reasonable, fair, and pleasant about it all, so we will see what happens.

But it may well be a situation like you mention, where BIL chooses money over his relationship with his brother, which admittedly is already not a close one. 

[SpeedReader]

I've had several conversations with my spouse (and several more with my friends as a vent frustrations and worries) about what will happen with his mother's estate when that time comes, hopefully no time soon.  There is very good reason to believe spouse's brother will be... challenging.  My best guess is he thinks that when his mom goes, he will be set, but we have very good reasons to believe the estate will be modest. So there will be far less money than he probably thinks he is getting, and it will be split in half.  Spouse's conclusion is generally that if his brother is difficult about it, tries to take more than his share in shady ways, or anything else, spouse will just sign everything over to BIL (to include dealing with all the legal hoops to jump through, taxes, etc., which there is no way BIL will be able to navigate well).  And then walk away and basically say, "that was the price of having me in your life in any way at all.  Lose my number."  That's easier said than done, and of course I hope against hope that BIL is reasonable, fair, and pleasant about it all, so we will see what happens.

But it may well be a situation like you mention, where BIL chooses money over his relationship with his brother, which admittedly is already not a close one.

The sad part is that my husband used to be quite close with his sister.

[Villanelle]

I've had several conversations with my spouse (and several more with my friends as a vent frustrations and worries) about what will happen with his mother's estate when that time comes, hopefully no time soon.  There is very good reason to believe spouse's brother will be... challenging.  My best guess is he thinks that when his mom goes, he will be set, but we have very good reasons to believe the estate will be modest. So there will be far less money than he probably thinks he is getting, and it will be split in half.  Spouse's conclusion is generally that if his brother is difficult about it, tries to take more than his share in shady ways, or anything else, spouse will just sign everything over to BIL (to include dealing with all the legal hoops to jump through, taxes, etc., which there is no way BIL will be able to navigate well).  And then walk away and basically say, "that was the price of having me in your life in any way at all.  Lose my number."  That's easier said than done, and of course I hope against hope that BIL is reasonable, fair, and pleasant about it all, so we will see what happens.

But it may well be a situation like you mention, where BIL chooses money over his relationship with his brother, which admittedly is already not a close one.

The sad part is that my husband used to be quite close with his sister.

We the inheritance what cause the split, or was it a gradual distancing that culminated in the split?  DH and his brother were never super tight, but they were certainly closer than they are now. It's been a gradual thing over the years, with lots of complicating factors.

[moof]

My uncle called recently to ask that I be is executor.  He basically laid out his intent to split things three ways with his niece and nephews.  I was blunt that I don’t need his money, but I would be his executor and just charge reasonable expenses and no more.  He had previously proudly mentioned he had about 100k in saved up, which split three ways would have no major impact on me.  As a life long professional gambler (successful enough to feed himself, but not much more) he has no social security coming, and really I expect by the time I need to fulfill my duty that his end of life expenses will fully exhaust his reserve anyway.

[SpeedReader]

The sad part is that my husband used to be quite close with his sister.
[/quote]

We the inheritance what cause the split, or was it a gradual distancing that culminated in the split?  DH and his brother were never super tight, but they were certainly closer than they are now. It's been a gradual thing over the years, with lots of complicating factors.
[/quote]

It was 5% the way she acted the week of the funeral, and 95% the inheritance.

[Capsu78]

My oldest hometown friend passed away this past summer.   Elementary school, HS, College rival football teams.  Even though we haven't lived in the same time zones in 40+ years, we have visited each other to ski, vacation, go to college football games so we have a History.
Unfortunately, he was a better friend than a Father as over the years, after his divorce, he managed to alienate his (nice, launched) kids who we all knew and his ex so much that they ghosted him... it was hard to watch this play out and had many heart to hearts with him on why he shouldn't go down this road, but he did.  Now he is "dearly departed", no longer gets or needs a "vote".  Conversations on both sides that should have occurred didn't.  The clock had hit 4Qtr - 0:00 
His 2nd wife wasn’t in the picture until years after the divorce.  She did some very  hard relationship work with each of the kids and never feuded  with his ex.  She was being counseled by his former Fraternity brother and another close friend of all of us.  They have been helping her make the decisions and are both 5* reliable successful in life, business and marriage guys.  We all wanted to  welcome a family reconciliation for our friends final services.  Wife #2 wrote a beautiful obituary including everyone from Family #1 on the "survived by" list...including the wives and grandkids our friend never met.
Well the drama continued and we had no idea if any of his family would be attending the farewell.  Behind W2’s back, someone in the family 1 even contacted the funeral home to see if a "private" viewing could take place.  Funeral director said “…only with consent of W2”
 W2 probably could have been persuaded with a phone call but now says "HARD NO"-  there will be 1 celebration of life and "everyone" is welcome.  The whole Celebration of Life, the whole room had to wonder if any of them would walk through the door, even if just to say “Dad, you were a real A****le”
 While I had held my friend as being 90% responsible for the bed he made, my final accountability scorecard  changed as all of  his "namesakes" were no show.  Still the minister and speakers said all kinds of nice things about F1 and W2  said many nice things as well.  At the after party, I had an aside with his closest friend who said he worked so hard to bring about some reconciliation, but was openly sad that he couldn’t .  He told the ex wife and all the kids privately “The war was over…Please do the right thing”.  Unfortunately, Bad Blood won out.

[Sandi_k]

My oldest hometown friend passed away this past summer.   Elementary school, HS, College rival football teams. 

( snip )

Well the drama continued and we had no idea if any of his family would be attending the farewell.  Behind W2’s back, someone in the family 1 even contacted the funeral home to see if a "private" viewing could take place.  Funeral director said “…only with consent of W2”

While I had held my friend as being 90% responsible for the bed he made, my final accountability scorecard  changed as all of  his "namesakes" were no show.  Still the minister and speakers said all kinds of nice things about F1 and W2  said many nice things as well.  At the after party, I had an aside with his closest friend who said he worked so hard to bring about some reconciliation, but was openly sad that he couldn’t .  He told the ex wife and all the kids privately “The war was over…Please do the right thing”.  Unfortunately, Bad Blood won out.

As someone who didn't go to her own father's funeral after 45 years of drama, give the kids a break. You have no right to judge their choice.

It's a horrible thing to have a parent who refuses to live up to the role of father, but expects all the public approbation from the kids. Even after death.

[MissNancyPryor]

My oldest hometown friend passed away this past summer.   Elementary school, HS, College rival football teams. 

( snip )

Well the drama continued and we had no idea if any of his family would be attending the farewell.  Behind W2’s back, someone in the family 1 even contacted the funeral home to see if a "private" viewing could take place.  Funeral director said “…only with consent of W2”

While I had held my friend as being 90% responsible for the bed he made, my final accountability scorecard  changed as all of  his "namesakes" were no show.  Still the minister and speakers said all kinds of nice things about F1 and W2  said many nice things as well.  At the after party, I had an aside with his closest friend who said he worked so hard to bring about some reconciliation, but was openly sad that he couldn’t .  He told the ex wife and all the kids privately “The war was over…Please do the right thing”.  Unfortunately, Bad Blood won out.

As someone who didn't go to her own father's funeral after 45 years of drama, give the kids a break. You have no right to judge their choice.

It's a horrible thing to have a parent who refuses to live up to the role of father, but expects all the public approbation from the kids. Even after death.

His friends were doing all the work for reconciliation for him while the father was still doing 90% asshole? 

I will never understand the flying monkeys.  They are more invested in the fake Happy Families notion so they can feel good about themselves and their view of the world, never understanding what it takes for children to reject a parent or what kind of creep it takes to discard their child.  How dare that friend declare themselves the arbiter of what is right and wheedle at F1 to change their position, swanning around as hostage negotiator to diminish their own discomfort.

"Do the right thing," puh-leeze, as if that notion ever occurred to Mr. Ninety Percent.

To be very clear, I mean no ill will to you as the poster of this story, just the situation.

My adult children rejected their Asshat of a father and it is the most difficult thing they will ever do.  He will live and die without their presence because they already grieved for him.

[okits]

My oldest hometown friend passed away this past summer.   Elementary school, HS, College rival football teams. 

( snip )

Well the drama continued and we had no idea if any of his family would be attending the farewell.  Behind W2’s back, someone in the family 1 even contacted the funeral home to see if a "private" viewing could take place.  Funeral director said “…only with consent of W2”

While I had held my friend as being 90% responsible for the bed he made, my final accountability scorecard  changed as all of  his "namesakes" were no show.  Still the minister and speakers said all kinds of nice things about F1 and W2  said many nice things as well.  At the after party, I had an aside with his closest friend who said he worked so hard to bring about some reconciliation, but was openly sad that he couldn’t .  He told the ex wife and all the kids privately “The war was over…Please do the right thing”.  Unfortunately, Bad Blood won out.

As someone who didn't go to her own father's funeral after 45 years of drama, give the kids a break. You have no right to judge their choice.

It's a horrible thing to have a parent who refuses to live up to the role of father, but expects all the public approbation from the kids. Even after death.

"You are invited to publicly perform forgiveness and reconciliation your parent and his friends feel you are obligated to give."  With an atmosphere like that, no wonder the kids didn't go to the funeral.

[Sibley]

Yeah, I'm not a fan of the don't speak ill of the dead stuff. If someone was a shitty parent, them dying doesn't change that. Everyone skipping a funeral tells me that there's some serious history and problems, and no one on the outside is qualified to judge.

Capsu - you weren't local. You didn't see the day to day. You have no idea what really happened. I'm sorry that you lost your friend, but it is entirely possible that he was a good friend to you and pretty shitty to everyone else. People are complicated. Grieve the loss of your friend, remember the good times you had, but recognize that you knew a small piece of who your friend was.

[Adventine]

Yeah, I'm not a fan of the don't speak ill of the dead stuff. If someone was a shitty parent, them dying doesn't change that. Everyone skipping a funeral tells me that there's some serious history and problems, and no one on the outside is qualified to judge.

Capsu - you weren't local. You didn't see the day to day. You have no idea what really happened. I'm sorry that you lost your friend, but it is entirely possible that he was a good friend to you and pretty shitty to everyone else. People are complicated. Grieve the loss of your friend, remember the good times you had, but recognize that you knew a small piece of who your friend was.

+1. People can be good friends and at the same time bad parents.


I've also seen a few blended family situations where the parent treated their kids from Family #1 very differently (usually much worse) compared to their kids from Family #2. Of course it created lifelong resentment in the kids from Family #1.

[MissNancyPryor]

The arrival of F1 could also be viewed as them showing up only now to get some inheritance and causing even more gossipy drama among those assembled.  W2 can keep her title of the bigger person and benevolent matriarch, no one is battling her for it.  It is a sad situation for everyone. 

[Mighty Eyebrows]

I dislike most funerals. Even the best ones seem to be largely a performance art for the remaining family. I don't even think they help people grieve well, especially funerals with too many people.

I would be fine if almost no-one came to my funeral. The people I love and who love me back already know who they are.

Edit: A party in my honor would be fine, as long as everyone invited was expected to be actual friends (with each other).

[SmartyCat]

Behind W2’s back, someone in the family 1 even contacted the funeral home to see if a "private" viewing could take place.  Funeral director said “…only with consent of W2”
 W2 probably could have been persuaded with a phone call but now says "HARD NO"-  there will be 1 celebration of life and "everyone" is welcome. 

This doesn't speak well for W2 at all. "Probably could have been persuaded with a phone call" suggests she expected them to grovel a bit before *maybe* deigning to consent. If she wouldn't consent to a private viewing for his kids (and why on earth not? She wouldn't have had to be there, and it would have allowed them to pay their final respects at no cost to her), it's hard to imagine that they would have taken "everyone welcome" at face value for the public service.

Due to a very complicated situation, I may someday receive a similar request and I would agree in a heartbeat.

[Villanelle]

Behind W2’s back, someone in the family 1 even contacted the funeral home to see if a "private" viewing could take place.  Funeral director said “…only with consent of W2”
 W2 probably could have been persuaded with a phone call but now says "HARD NO"-  there will be 1 celebration of life and "everyone" is welcome. 

This doesn't speak well for W2 at all. "Probably could have been persuaded with a phone call" suggests she expected them to grovel a bit before *maybe* deigning to consent. If she wouldn't consent to a private viewing for his kids (and why on earth not? She wouldn't have had to be there, and it would have allowed them to pay their final respects at no cost to her), it's hard to imagine that they would have taken "everyone welcome" at face value for the public service.

Due to a very complicated situation, I may someday receive a similar request and I would agree in a heartbeat.

Yes, this.

It's hard to think of any decent reason for her to have denied the request.  It sounds like she wanted everyone else to see them present, so they could look like a big happy family.  If she didn't get the appearance of having come together, then she wasn't interested in working with the children to facilitate their grieving. 

It could have cost her nothing to have let the children had a separate viewing.  It seems it would have changed her plans in no way at all.  But she decided to be stubborn and exert her power because...?  I guess because the children didn't properly kiss her ring and go through her?

I feel awful for those kids.  Perhaps this man was a great friend, but it sounds like he was a crap dad and W2 was a lousy stepmom as well.  People are complicated and can be more than one thing. 

[Dicey]

Perhaps she was afraid the kids would mutilate the corpse.

[tygertygertyger]

Or maybe W2 had to hear about it from the funeral home rather than directly.

I remember a rough family situation when my mom was in the hospital getting ready for heart surgery, and her sister and adult niece showed up, with the niece insisting that my mom and her resolve their issues (totally on the niece's side) before my mom possibly died (the niece's words). Given that my mom's heart rate spiked during THAT conversation, a nurse came in and kicked them out. The next day one of them called the hospital to ask a doctor about my mom's condition. Given the hospital's policy of only allowing 2 listed people to get medical status, they refused to share information. I got an earful from them about how we must have told the hospital not to share information with them, etc, when at any time they could have asked to be put through to my mom's room to talk to her directly about her status. I mean, I'm glad they didn't talk to my mom - I have doubts about their good intentions - but we didn't do anything.

I can imagine if W2 had made a real effort with F1, and then F1 decided to call the funeral home to request this rather than even talk to W2, that might be a little weird. But I don't have an inside scoop on that situation. Also, I definitely get leaving sleeping dogs like when you don't owe a family member anything.   

[Capsu78]

Or maybe W2 had to hear about it from the funeral home rather than directly.

I can imagine if W2 had made a real effort with F1, and then F1 decided to call the funeral home to request this rather than even talk to W2, that might be a little weird. But I don't have an inside scoop on that situation. Also, I definitely get leaving sleeping dogs like when you don't owe a family member anything.

Pretty much this ^^^
I arrived 15 minutes early as I had a task I was asked to perform.  F1 or any of them could have easily cycled through at this time and not had to really talk to anybody.  W2 would have welcomed them.  She had manageable relationships with all of them and I even have several pics where W1 and W2 are both smiling for the camera.  (For clarities sake, there is no F2... just a second marriage that took place 15+ years after the divorce, which W1 demanded)

[iris lily]

Perhaps she was afraid the kids would mutilate the corpse.

lol

[Capsu78]

Perhaps she was afraid the kids would mutilate the corpse.

lol

Actually, he left a pretty good looking one all things considered.

[TheGrimSqueaker]

I will never understand the flying monkeys.  They are more invested in the fake Happy Families notion so they can feel good about themselves and their view of the world, never understanding what it takes for children to reject a parent or what kind of creep it takes to discard their child.

Flying monkeys are rewarded for their manipulative, controlling, and inappropriate behavior in three ways.

1. They get to feel superior to the aggressor whose dysfunctional behavior drove a close family member away.

Flying monkeys truly believe themselves to be all-wise, all-knowing, and benevolent. But they simultaneously know that they aren't really gods, so they go around looking for ways to validate their unreasonably high opinions of themselves. They test or demonstrate their superiority by gracing the poor benighted sinner-aggressors with redemption. Using their mighty powers of manipulation and control, they swoop down from the heavens in a golden chariot to rescue the aggressor from the predictable consequences of his or her bad behavior. They do something the aggressor no longer can: they bring away the person who successfully escape. It's a big ego moment if the flying monkey can swoop down in a golden chariot to wipe the aggressor's butt, using the victim as the human toilet paper, and restore events to the way they were before the aggressor drove the victim away. This guarantees the abuse will recur, because the aggressor has just learned that he or she really CAN abuse the victim without permanent consequence.

2. They get to feel superior to the victim too.

Flying monkeys believe that the victim of abuse has a the moral duty to forgive the aggressor no matter what, to allow further abuse no matter what, and to lick the boot that kicks them especially if the person wearing the boot is Family or has A Disease. This obviously isn't accompanied by the notion that the aggressor might have a duty to not abuse the victim. It's strictly one-sided. To the flying monkey, a person who has an addiction, a mental health problem, PMS, a hangnail, or any other problem is forgiveness on demand, to determine how long the victim should take to "get over it", and to move beyond the consequences of the abuse the moment it's convenient for the aggressor. Anything short of doormat-like submission with full joy and sincerity is not only unacceptable but morally wrong. By saying "no" to future abuse, the victim becomes a Very Bad Person according to the flying monkey, who by definition is a Very Good Person (since they have good intentions and only want what they know to be best for the victim). In the name of Family Reunification, or Scripture, or Tradition, or the flying monkey's own righteous Emotional Feelings, the flying monkey does whatever he or she can to bully the victim into line. A victim who resists, who refuses to kowtow to both the aggressor and the flying monkey, is wrong, bad, immoral, misguided, and in poor standing with the Sky Bunny. The flying monkey is therefore obligated, as a representative of the Sky Bunny, to punish the misbehaving victim for attempting to escape. This is a huge ego boost to the flying monkey. Success validates his or her belief in his or her own psychic powers and Sky Bunny favor.

3. They get approval from other flying monkeys even if they don't succeed.

By developing a massive emotional commitment to other people's life decisions that do not affect them, flying monkeys can put on a giant martyr act when they don't get their way. If their manipulations are unsuccessful, such as if the victim escapes or tells them to get stuffed, they get to go hang out with others of their own kind. There, they boo-hoo about how sad they are and how much emotional stress the victim is causing them. This earns them the sympathy of others of their ilk, who reinforce the flying monkey's big martyr act and sense of personal hurt. This rewards the flying monkey for having such bad boundaries that they give a flying fuck about a relationship that doesn't involve them.

Basically, even when they lose, there's an emotional and social payoff.

[Sibley]

When the victim DOES get away, and the Flying Monkeys fail in dragging them back for further abuse, there is sometimes a nasty justice when the Flying Monkey becomes subject to the abuse that the victim previously was.

[TheGrimSqueaker]

When the victim DOES get away, and the Flying Monkeys fail in dragging them back for further abuse, there is sometimes a nasty justice when the Flying Monkey becomes subject to the abuse that the victim previously was.

And it comes as a surprise, somehow. I should probably keep a bag of popcorn handy.

[Spiffsome]

But you don't understand, Grim! They're special! They're better than the designated victim, so the bad things aren't supposed to happen to them!

(Please read this with all of the sarcasm the Internet has to offer.)

[TheGrimSqueaker]

But you don't understand, Grim! They're special! They're better than the designated victim, so the bad things aren't supposed to happen to them!

(Please read this with all of the sarcasm the Internet has to offer.)

Indeed, I was raised in a family that had exactly that kind of value system. I've also seen it in the occasional workplace, church, charity, social club, and school. That's why I can laugh about it.

On a more serious note, you've identified a very common phenomenon in groups of people where there's one designated person who is destructive, predatory, abusive, or otherwise toxic. People develop strategies to avoid being abused themselves, and to gain status within the group. Part of what a flying monkey thinks he or she is doing is buying immunity from the abuse. When that tacit contract isn't upheld by the abuser, it comes as a surprise because the flying monkey truly believes there's a quid pro quo.

I've made a study of groups of toxic or dysfunctional people. They're like a messed-up Imperial court, with a toxic Emperor in the middle of it and a bunch of courtiers, profiteers, and other people jockeying for position or simply trying to get by and dodge the worst of the abuse. They end up unintentionally creating the environment the toxic person needs to survive, and perpetuating the toxicity by filling the vacuum left when the family alcoholic sobers up or the abusive boss leaves.

I've identified seven different ways in which individual people unintentionally contribute to a toxic family or environment. The process showed me how to identify toxic groups of people from a distance, without getting involved, and how to permanently leave a toxic group to do some things differently. I published the book a few years ago on Amazon.

[Dicey]

But you don't understand, Grim! They're special! They're better than the designated victim, so the bad things aren't supposed to happen to them!

(Please read this with all of the sarcasm the Internet has to offer.)

Indeed, I was raised in a family that had exactly that kind of value system. I've also seen it in the occasional workplace, church, charity, social club, and school. That's why I can laugh about it.

On a more serious note, you've identified a very common phenomenon in groups of people where there's one designated person who is destructive, predatory, abusive, or otherwise toxic. People develop strategies to avoid being abused themselves, and to gain status within the group. Part of what a flying monkey thinks he or she is doing is buying immunity from the abuse. When that tacit contract isn't upheld by the abuser, it comes as a surprise because the flying monkey truly believes there's a quid pro quo.

I've made a study of groups of toxic or dysfunctional people. They're like a messed-up Imperial court, with a toxic Emperor in the middle of it and a bunch of courtiers, profiteers, and other people jockeying for position or simply trying to get by and dodge the worst of the abuse. They end up unintentionally creating the environment the toxic person needs to survive, and perpetuating the toxicity by filling the vacuum left when the family alcoholic sobers up or the abusive boss leaves.

I've identified seven different ways in which individual people unintentionally contribute to a toxic family or environment. The process showed me how to identify toxic groups of people from a distance, without getting involved, and how to permanently leave a toxic group to do some things differently. I published the book a few years ago on Amazon.

I didn't realize you knew my sister!

Based on her bullshit when I was co-exec of my parent's estate, I have kept contact with her to the bare minimum. All my other siblings have developed amnesia resumed cordial relations with her and I am the odd man out. Apparently they can't see she's simply a snake who has recoiled and is awaiting her next opportunity to strike. It won't be me, nor will I pick up the pieces for her next victim. Maybe I need to read your book.

[Siebrie]

- My Father (81) has 3 types of cancer, which each take turns to be a nuisance. Recently, his prostate cancer flared up and he had to decide whether to start chemo. The Oncologist gave him 3 months without treatment, and 3 years with treatment, but with possibly nasty side effects. He took 2 weeks to decide, has started chemo; he is visibly getting better.
- My estranged Sister is in a hiring process with the police for a Receptionist position, which has taken 6 months so far. (Sister was estranged from both my parents as well as me; contact has been resumed with my parents, but very minimally.)
The stress of both situations above is getting to my Sister, and she is starting to fabricate stories to get at our parents. She told my parents last week that my Cousin (who my Father has a close connection with, because my Father was his guardian when my Uncle died) had called me and that we had agreed that my parents were nasty beings.... I'm not in touch with him, haven't been for the last 3 years, which was at his Mother's funeral.
I'm the executor of my parents' wills, on purpose, and just hope that Sister is hired in that position before my Father kicks the bucket.