Author Topic: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.  (Read 1073167 times)

Botany Bae

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2650 on: June 28, 2021, 12:32:08 PM »
My dad was so good at funeral planning that none of us knew about it until the morning he passed away. It was in his on-file directive with the hospital. We were sitting in shock, awaiting the coroner, when a well dressed woman walked in and introduced herself. She was from a cremation service. He had paid for his cremation and urn, determined the memorial to be etched on it, declined all memorial services, and even written his own obituary in advance.

It was a surprise. My father was terrified of death and it was a taboo subject. I'm guessing he took care of it all in one fell swoop so he wouldn't have to think about it ever again. My mother, on the other hand, just goes on and on about how she should plan something in advance but never does so. My sister and I are tempted to just bury her in the backyard... (I jest, I jest!)

Dicey

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2651 on: June 28, 2021, 02:21:47 PM »
Last week we visited the huge mausoleum where my MIL's ashes are to be interred next to her husband's. It's a funky old place that's pretty cool. It's a warren of chapels and respites and whatevers. There are so many unclaimed niches and crypts that I have to wonder how many of them were purchased "Pre-Need" and never claimed.

Case in point: MIL's father bought a niche for 3 in an older section many years ago. When FIL died, the family tried to claim it. Uh, it seems the other two spots were in full use, with someone else's ashes. I thought they should have moved the interlopers, but the place offered them a "better" niche for 2 in a different area 9 years ago.

DH and I got there early and had a look around. We found the niche with no trouble, then had a good wander about. When we finally moseyed over to the office, BIL was there amidst a bit of an uproar because they had FIL listed in a place BIL knew was wrong. "No problem", said we. The mausoleum person had to escort all of us to where we said it was, just to make sure we were right, ffs.

Edited to override the fucking autocorrect. Again.
« Last Edit: June 30, 2021, 12:55:15 PM by Dicey »

Captain FIRE

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2652 on: June 29, 2021, 10:44:25 AM »
@Villanelle I'd still jot down a few things, even if it's just stuff you don't want. You don't know who might end up wanting a say in the funeral plans so "do whatever makes you feel good" will be different for different people - and how will they decide between themselves with nothing to go on? Same reason it's good to make a will even if it's super simple and what everyone expects - it removes any debate, internal or external. There are a few tickbox funeral planning guides online if you just want to take ten minutes over it to ensure less hassle for your heirs/friends and family.

I genuinely don't care, to the point that there's nothing I don't want.  For example, a full catholic funeral would seem super odd because I'm decidedly not Catholic (or Christian, or religious), but if that's what people want to do, the decision doesn't affect me in any way, what with me being dead.  So I really mean if when I say that whatever those closest to me find most meaningful or comforting or silly, or cheap or easy, or whatever criteria they want to use is A-okay with me.  I've told them that, and it does seem to me like that would make it easy because they don't have any pressure to guess what I would have wanted if I was there for the event, but I can see that it does provide no direction in a time that I'm guessing they will be at least a bit upset and overwhelmed. 

Outside of those who feel like there are certain things that need to be done for religious or similar reasons, I'm not sure why anyone much cares (but acknowledge and respect that they do) with few exceptions (and things like "make sure you invite cousin Fred because I think it's mean when is is excluded).  But that's because I believe that when we die, we stop entirely and in all ways, so it's a thing that has zero affect on my whatsoever.
I think you're right that providing direction when they are grieving is a good thing to do.  There's also the issue that may arise if there's a disagreement among your loved ones about what type of service (or not) is appropriate.  For example, Stoic Catholic Relative A might want a traditional Catholic funeral, while Naturalist Relative B might want to wrap you in a burlap sack and toss you in a hole, and they're each horrified by the other's proposal.  If you provide direction, it also (hopefully!) eliminates that potential source of conflict.

Yep yep.

Case in point: 15+ years ago my grandfather passes away.  My uncle is devastated - they lived nearby and were very close.  He did not engage in planning the funeral because he was too upset.  (He would walk out of a room if anyone but my dad entered it.)  My grandma was very much "whatever you want".  So my family plans the funeral since we have no engagement with my uncle and my grandma is agreeing to whatever is presented.

Next day, day of funeral, my uncle says to us that he thinks we may have mistakened his grief for lack of interest.  Well, no, but we also couldn't get your input so we had to move on.  He tells us he made a few changes.  Fine.  Except he removed a song that had special meaning to my family and wouldn't agree to putting it back in.  ("I was there to hear your borning cry") It was our only "change back" request.  Some rule about singing songs in Catholic church.  My grandma won't weigh in.  "Whatever you guys want."  We think we've struck upon a solution: we can't for some unknown reason have everyone sing it, but we can do a eulogy.  My siblings and I will sing the piece as a eulogy instead.  Grandpa would have loved it (grandkids performing?!).  Uncle didn't say anything then to object.

Uncle didn't say anything again for another ~15 years in fact.  Stopped speaking over this, well, other than to tell off my mom for sending him her annual Christmas letters sharing what they've done for the past year, considering it bragging.  Only started up again limited as my grandma's health deteriorated to share limited information related to her.  It's possible he wanted to speak sooner but felt he needed a reason.  He did not tell us when his wife had cancer or passed away, we found out after the fact.  He also lost one of his two sons during this time (though we did hear about that in time to attend his funeral at least, without objections).


TLDR: You might not care what happens to you after you die, but consider if you want there to be a family rift over something you may think is ridiculous.

Smokystache

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2653 on: June 29, 2021, 11:44:31 AM »
Full Disclosure: I work with funeral homes & cemetery (but am not a licensed professional)

I think one of the worst trends is the "don't have a service for me" trend. I understand that in most cases it said/done as a gesture of help -- as in, "I don't want you to have to go through a funeral. So I don't want one." What they are misunderstanding is that grief happens whether there is a service or not. It's just that they are putting you through their loss without any support or rituals that might be helpful.

This doesn't mean that everyone should have a big, expensive funeral to deal with their grief. If you think it would be more helpful to your family to rent out the local event center, buy some food and drinks, and give people a chance to tell a few stories and hug and console your closest loved ones, then great - do that. (But set up some way to have this pre-arranged so that it doesn't fall on your grieving loved ones to have to plan an event in a few days.)

But honestly, if you are directly or indirectly telling people "don't have a service" or "just throw me in a ditch" then you are essentially saying to your survivors (whether you mean to or not), "I want you to suffer through your grief alone."

Sugaree

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2654 on: June 29, 2021, 11:49:55 AM »
I understand that there may or may not be a plot in my husband's family's cemetery in a state where I have never lived.  I don't want to be embalmed or buried, so no thanks.  I want my ashes interred into a reef ball that is sunk off the coast. 

Villanelle

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2655 on: June 29, 2021, 12:30:13 PM »
Full Disclosure: I work with funeral homes & cemetery (but am not a licensed professional)

I think one of the worst trends is the "don't have a service for me" trend. I understand that in most cases it said/done as a gesture of help -- as in, "I don't want you to have to go through a funeral. So I don't want one." What they are misunderstanding is that grief happens whether there is a service or not. It's just that they are putting you through their loss without any support or rituals that might be helpful.

This doesn't mean that everyone should have a big, expensive funeral to deal with their grief. If you think it would be more helpful to your family to rent out the local event center, buy some food and drinks, and give people a chance to tell a few stories and hug and console your closest loved ones, then great - do that. (But set up some way to have this pre-arranged so that it doesn't fall on your grieving loved ones to have to plan an event in a few days.)

But honestly, if you are directly or indirectly telling people "don't have a service" or "just throw me in a ditch" then you are essentially saying to your survivors (whether you mean to or not), "I want you to suffer through your grief alone."

Since I'm one of the ones who said I truly don't care what happens, I'll address this.  I'm not telling anyone NOT to have a service.  If they want to sit in grief for 7 days, cool.  If they want to invite anyone I've ever met (and some I haven't) to an epic service with A-list entertainers and an open mic for "Villanelle was Amazing" stories, fantastic.  Or if they want to throw me in a ditch, that's wonderful, too.

But I also think your post somewhat shows your bias. You deal mostly with the families who do end up doing something beyond a ditch, which creates a confirmation bias for "services of some kind are helpful" because the people you deal with are generally doing at least something.  I have no remaining grandparents and have lost my best friend of 30+ years, my Father in law (husband's dad), as well as a handful of other people close to me.  For all of them, there was either not a service, or I was unable to attend due to living on the other side of the world.  *I* didn't need a service to help my grief.  I didn't feel like a lack of service was "grieving alone".  There were phone calls and texts and stories shared and FB posts, and comfort from my husband and from local friends who didn't know these people but reached out to me, and all sorts of things.  A service is surely helpful to some people.  An informal wake, "Hey, come by our place on Tuesday night, BYOB, and let's honor Villanelle in that way", may be helpful for others.  But for plenty of people, the service isn't necessary and doesn't aid the grief, and a lack of service certain does not mean "grieving alone".  I wouldn't have grieved those people any "better", faster, healthier, whatever, if I'd stood at a gravesite and thrown dirt, or in a church and heard sermons and hymns, or in a living room and shared whiskeys and stories, or anything else.  And I certainly wasn't alone in my grief just because I didn't gather with other grievers. 

RetiredAt63

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2656 on: June 29, 2021, 12:55:49 PM »
I understand that there may or may not be a plot in my husband's family's cemetery in a state where I have never lived.  I don't want to be embalmed or buried, so no thanks.  I want my ashes interred into a reef ball that is sunk off the coast.

Reef ball!  Never heard of them but off to investigate. 

Funerals can be surprising - my Dad said not to bother because he was in his 90s, didn't think there would be enough people to show up.  But we did have a funeral, and the small chapel was full.  The person in charge after my aunt died did not arrange a funeral, so several of my aunt's friends and a few local family gathered at one person's house for tea and to tell stories.  It was lovely.  Of course we did not invite the person in charge of arrangements, who was a stranger to us.

frugalecon

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2657 on: June 29, 2021, 04:34:48 PM »
I understand that there may or may not be a plot in my husband's family's cemetery in a state where I have never lived.  I don't want to be embalmed or buried, so no thanks.  I want my ashes interred into a reef ball that is sunk off the coast.

Reef ball!  Never heard of them but off to investigate. 

Funerals can be surprising - my Dad said not to bother because he was in his 90s, didn't think there would be enough people to show up.  But we did have a funeral, and the small chapel was full.  The person in charge after my aunt died did not arrange a funeral, so several of my aunt's friends and a few local family gathered at one person's house for tea and to tell stories.  It was lovely.  Of course we did not invite the person in charge of arrangements, who was a stranger to us.

What I like about this story is that it meshes with my view that funerals are for the living, not the dead. It sounds like those who cared about your aunt had the opportunity to come together and reflect and share, and that is just about perfect.

Botany Bae

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2658 on: June 29, 2021, 06:25:06 PM »
Full Disclosure: I work with funeral homes & cemetery (but am not a licensed professional)

I think one of the worst trends is the "don't have a service for me" trend. I understand that in most cases it said/done as a gesture of help -- as in, "I don't want you to have to go through a funeral. So I don't want one." What they are misunderstanding is that grief happens whether there is a service or not. It's just that they are putting you through their loss without any support or rituals that might be helpful.



This depends greatly on the situation and family, so don't always judge too harshly. In my father's case, a service would have been the worst possible thing for the main grievers. Family that couldn't afford to travel (and honestly weren't that close to him) would have gone into debt to do so just to keep up appearances. My mother would have turned it into a borderline narcissistic shit show, and the entire burden would have fallen on her children whom she would have used the whole thing as a means to torture us. His death removed the protection he had extended to us all of his life, as he was the only one my mother listened to. He knew this and used his final power as "man of the house" to protect his children from his wife's crazy. My sis and I had our own memorial at a local pub, so it was all good.

Imma

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2659 on: June 30, 2021, 02:56:27 AM »
Full Disclosure: I work with funeral homes & cemetery (but am not a licensed professional)

I think one of the worst trends is the "don't have a service for me" trend. I understand that in most cases it said/done as a gesture of help -- as in, "I don't want you to have to go through a funeral. So I don't want one." What they are misunderstanding is that grief happens whether there is a service or not. It's just that they are putting you through their loss without any support or rituals that might be helpful.

This doesn't mean that everyone should have a big, expensive funeral to deal with their grief. If you think it would be more helpful to your family to rent out the local event center, buy some food and drinks, and give people a chance to tell a few stories and hug and console your closest loved ones, then great - do that. (But set up some way to have this pre-arranged so that it doesn't fall on your grieving loved ones to have to plan an event in a few days.)

But honestly, if you are directly or indirectly telling people "don't have a service" or "just throw me in a ditch" then you are essentially saying to your survivors (whether you mean to or not), "I want you to suffer through your grief alone."

Since I'm one of the ones who said I truly don't care what happens, I'll address this.  I'm not telling anyone NOT to have a service.  If they want to sit in grief for 7 days, cool.  If they want to invite anyone I've ever met (and some I haven't) to an epic service with A-list entertainers and an open mic for "Villanelle was Amazing" stories, fantastic.  Or if they want to throw me in a ditch, that's wonderful, too.

But I also think your post somewhat shows your bias. You deal mostly with the families who do end up doing something beyond a ditch, which creates a confirmation bias for "services of some kind are helpful" because the people you deal with are generally doing at least something.  I have no remaining grandparents and have lost my best friend of 30+ years, my Father in law (husband's dad), as well as a handful of other people close to me.  For all of them, there was either not a service, or I was unable to attend due to living on the other side of the world.  *I* didn't need a service to help my grief.  I didn't feel like a lack of service was "grieving alone".  There were phone calls and texts and stories shared and FB posts, and comfort from my husband and from local friends who didn't know these people but reached out to me, and all sorts of things.  A service is surely helpful to some people.  An informal wake, "Hey, come by our place on Tuesday night, BYOB, and let's honor Villanelle in that way", may be helpful for others.  But for plenty of people, the service isn't necessary and doesn't aid the grief, and a lack of service certain does not mean "grieving alone".  I wouldn't have grieved those people any "better", faster, healthier, whatever, if I'd stood at a gravesite and thrown dirt, or in a church and heard sermons and hymns, or in a living room and shared whiskeys and stories, or anything else.  And I certainly wasn't alone in my grief just because I didn't gather with other grievers.

I went through a grief process alone during Covid and it was hard for me. The person I loved most in the world passed from Covid and I was not able to visit them in hospital before their death. I was able to see their body about a week after death and we had a short burial service with a handful of people there  - not all of course close relatives since some were still fighting Covid and not out of the danger zone. Less than 10 people. That's when I noticed how important the informal parts of the grieving process are. Just talking about people, laughing and crying. I really missed not having that. In this case, my own friends reached out to me and helped me but I really missed not being in touh with other people. I live out of town so the people my loved one knew wouldn't even know how to reach me and I wouldn't know how to reach them. I know where they live but Covid prevented me from going there.

But the people in our family who have expressed the wish that they want "no service" literally mean no service at all, no informal gatherings either. They do not want their death acknowledged in any way. We are going to defy their last wishes. One of our parents is in the last stages of their lives and wishes to just disappear off the face of the earth after death. It's their choice to not have a service or a headstone but we aren't going to hide their death from anyone. We are going to tell our friends, neighbours, coworkers, extended family etc that our parent passed. I believe that as a parent you can't burden your kids with a secret like that. When a member of our family or a friend calls and says "hey how are you doing, how's your parent?" we're just going to tell them the parent passed. I don't even know what those people think will happen. Do they expect us to keep up the charade and pretend they're not dead? Are we supposed to tell them the person disappeared (and get people worried and maybe even the police involved for no reason?).

Smokystache

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2660 on: June 30, 2021, 11:23:28 AM »
Full Disclosure: I work with funeral homes & cemetery (but am not a licensed professional)

I think one of the worst trends is the "don't have a service for me" trend. .... "I want you to suffer through your grief alone."

Since I'm one of the ones who said I truly don't care what happens, I'll address this.  I'm not telling anyone NOT to have a service.  If they want to sit in grief for 7 days, cool.  If they want to invite anyone I've ever met (and some I haven't) to an epic service with A-list entertainers and an open mic for "Villanelle was Amazing" stories, fantastic.  Or if they want to throw me in a ditch, that's wonderful, too.

But I also think your post somewhat shows your bias. You deal mostly with the families who do end up doing something beyond a ditch, which creates a confirmation bias for "services of some kind are helpful" because the people you deal with are generally doing at least something.  I have no remaining grandparents and have lost my best friend of 30+ years, my Father in law (husband's dad), as well as a handful of other people close to me.  For all of them, there was either not a service, or I was unable to attend due to living on the other side of the world.  *I* didn't need a service to help my grief.  I didn't feel like a lack of service was "grieving alone".  There were phone calls and texts and stories shared and FB posts, and comfort from my husband and from local friends who didn't know these people but reached out to me, and all sorts of things.  A service is surely helpful to some people.  An informal wake, "Hey, come by our place on Tuesday night, BYOB, and let's honor Villanelle in that way", may be helpful for others.  But for plenty of people, the service isn't necessary and doesn't aid the grief, and a lack of service certain does not mean "grieving alone".  I wouldn't have grieved those people any "better", faster, healthier, whatever, if I'd stood at a gravesite and thrown dirt, or in a church and heard sermons and hymns, or in a living room and shared whiskeys and stories, or anything else.  And I certainly wasn't alone in my grief just because I didn't gather with other grievers.

I think this is a fair critique of my statement. I don't have any doubt that many people will be fine in their grief process as they work through things without a public service. I believe my biggest concern is that someone else is making this decision for their survivors - often without allowing them to have any input.

This depends greatly on the situation and family, so don't always judge too harshly. In my father's case, a service would have been the worst possible thing for the main grievers. Family that couldn't afford to travel (and honestly weren't that close to him) would have gone into debt to do so just to keep up appearances. My mother would have turned it into a borderline narcissistic shit show, and the entire burden would have fallen on her children whom she would have used the whole thing as a means to torture us. His death removed the protection he had extended to us all of his life, as he was the only one my mother listened to. He knew this and used his final power as "man of the house" to protect his children from his wife's crazy. My sis and I had our own memorial at a local pub, so it was all good.

Without question, long-standing family drama and feuds may create a situation where it is best to not have service because it will add further trauma. I should have specified this contingency.

Your reactions have helped me think further about this and I'm willing to take a half-step back from my previous bold statement. I will argue that in most families we would all be better served with more frequent and more open discussions about death and what that means for the living. Perhaps that is half the less on of this entire thread: a lot of inheritance drama could be avoided by honest conversations prior to death.

shelivesthedream

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2661 on: June 30, 2021, 12:28:53 PM »
Thanks to this thread I took our disparate pieces of paper (wills, list of accounts, funeral plan), put them all in a document wallet and labelled it "DEATH". Then told a few choice people to look for it in my desk if we both conk out at once. One day we will fiiiiiinally get round to writing a Letter of Intent to our children's guardians but at least I now know I can just shove stuff in there or update it with handwritten scribbles as and when, and someone will actually look for it and have it to help them out - even if it's not in perfect order.

Dicey

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2662 on: June 30, 2021, 01:06:27 PM »
Full Disclosure: I work with funeral homes & cemetery (but am not a licensed professional)

I think one of the worst trends is the "don't have a service for me" trend. I understand that in most cases it said/done as a gesture of help -- as in, "I don't want you to have to go through a funeral. So I don't want one." What they are misunderstanding is that grief happens whether there is a service or not. It's just that they are putting you through their loss without any support or rituals that might be helpful.

This doesn't mean that everyone should have a big, expensive funeral to deal with their grief. If you think it would be more helpful to your family to rent out the local event center, buy some food and drinks, and give people a chance to tell a few stories and hug and console your closest loved ones, then great - do that. (But set up some way to have this pre-arranged so that it doesn't fall on your grieving loved ones to have to plan an event in a few days.)

But honestly, if you are directly or indirectly telling people "don't have a service" or "just throw me in a ditch" then you are essentially saying to your survivors (whether you mean to or not), "I want you to suffer through your grief alone."

Since I'm one of the ones who said I truly don't care what happens, I'll address this.  I'm not telling anyone NOT to have a service.  If they want to sit in grief for 7 days, cool.  If they want to invite anyone I've ever met (and some I haven't) to an epic service with A-list entertainers and an open mic for "Villanelle was Amazing" stories, fantastic.  Or if they want to throw me in a ditch, that's wonderful, too.

But I also think your post somewhat shows your bias.
You deal mostly with the families who do end up doing something beyond a ditch, which creates a confirmation bias for "services of some kind are helpful" because the people you deal with are generally doing at least something.  I have no remaining grandparents and have lost my best friend of 30+ years, my Father in law (husband's dad), as well as a handful of other people close to me.  For all of them, there was either not a service, or I was unable to attend due to living on the other side of the world.  *I* didn't need a service to help my grief.  I didn't feel like a lack of service was "grieving alone".  There were phone calls and texts and stories shared and FB posts, and comfort from my husband and from local friends who didn't know these people but reached out to me, and all sorts of things.  A service is surely helpful to some people.  An informal wake, "Hey, come by our place on Tuesday night, BYOB, and let's honor Villanelle in that way", may be helpful for others.  But for plenty of people, the service isn't necessary and doesn't aid the grief, and a lack of service certain does not mean "grieving alone".  I wouldn't have grieved those people any "better", faster, healthier, whatever, if I'd stood at a gravesite and thrown dirt, or in a church and heard sermons and hymns, or in a living room and shared whiskeys and stories, or anything else.  And I certainly wasn't alone in my grief just because I didn't gather with other grievers.
I tend to disagree with the bolded. Other than occasionally planning a memorial service, I have no connection to the industry. I went to my first funeral when I was about 17. My boyfriend's mother died rather suddenly. The funeral was amazing in that I got to learn so much more about her than my teenage level of maturity had allowed me to notice while she was alive. It taught me a valuable and abiding lesson. Everybody has an interesting story or scores of them. In fact, in the years since, I've never been to a service where I haven't learned more about the person being remembered. Even my parent's friends told stories that I had never heard before. It is very cathartic. I suppose this makes me feel lucky that there is no one in my life about whom anyone says, "Goodbye, you miserable wretch."

Villanelle

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2663 on: June 30, 2021, 03:30:05 PM »
Full Disclosure: I work with funeral homes & cemetery (but am not a licensed professional)

I think one of the worst trends is the "don't have a service for me" trend. I understand that in most cases it said/done as a gesture of help -- as in, "I don't want you to have to go through a funeral. So I don't want one." What they are misunderstanding is that grief happens whether there is a service or not. It's just that they are putting you through their loss without any support or rituals that might be helpful.

This doesn't mean that everyone should have a big, expensive funeral to deal with their grief. If you think it would be more helpful to your family to rent out the local event center, buy some food and drinks, and give people a chance to tell a few stories and hug and console your closest loved ones, then great - do that. (But set up some way to have this pre-arranged so that it doesn't fall on your grieving loved ones to have to plan an event in a few days.)

But honestly, if you are directly or indirectly telling people "don't have a service" or "just throw me in a ditch" then you are essentially saying to your survivors (whether you mean to or not), "I want you to suffer through your grief alone."

Since I'm one of the ones who said I truly don't care what happens, I'll address this.  I'm not telling anyone NOT to have a service.  If they want to sit in grief for 7 days, cool.  If they want to invite anyone I've ever met (and some I haven't) to an epic service with A-list entertainers and an open mic for "Villanelle was Amazing" stories, fantastic.  Or if they want to throw me in a ditch, that's wonderful, too.

But I also think your post somewhat shows your bias.
You deal mostly with the families who do end up doing something beyond a ditch, which creates a confirmation bias for "services of some kind are helpful" because the people you deal with are generally doing at least something.  I have no remaining grandparents and have lost my best friend of 30+ years, my Father in law (husband's dad), as well as a handful of other people close to me.  For all of them, there was either not a service, or I was unable to attend due to living on the other side of the world.  *I* didn't need a service to help my grief.  I didn't feel like a lack of service was "grieving alone".  There were phone calls and texts and stories shared and FB posts, and comfort from my husband and from local friends who didn't know these people but reached out to me, and all sorts of things.  A service is surely helpful to some people.  An informal wake, "Hey, come by our place on Tuesday night, BYOB, and let's honor Villanelle in that way", may be helpful for others.  But for plenty of people, the service isn't necessary and doesn't aid the grief, and a lack of service certain does not mean "grieving alone".  I wouldn't have grieved those people any "better", faster, healthier, whatever, if I'd stood at a gravesite and thrown dirt, or in a church and heard sermons and hymns, or in a living room and shared whiskeys and stories, or anything else.  And I certainly wasn't alone in my grief just because I didn't gather with other grievers.
I tend to disagree with the bolded. Other than occasionally planning a memorial service, I have no connection to the industry. I went to my first funeral when I was about 17. My boyfriend's mother died rather suddenly. The funeral was amazing in that I got to learn so much more about her than my teenage level of maturity had allowed me to notice while she was alive. It taught me a valuable and abiding lesson. Everybody has an interesting story or scores of them. In fact, in the years since, I've never been to a service where I haven't learned more about the person being remembered. Even my parent's friends told stories that I had never heard before. It is very cathartic. I suppose this makes me feel lucky that there is no one in my life about whom anyone says, "Goodbye, you miserable wretch."

I'm not sure how that conflicts with what I said.  I didn't say (and don't think) that no one benefits from death services of some kind, and that in some cases they aren't very helpful.  I was disagreeing with the fact that not having them is a bad idea *for everyone*, and that not having a service necessarily means "grieving alone", as though the only way not to grieve alone is a death service of some kind.  Not wanting a service isn't telling people they must "grieve alone".  And some people don't need a service to help process grief.  Some do, and that's okay, too.  But I was arguing against the notions that everyone benefits from them and is better off if there is one, and that the only other option is some kind of unshared, solitary grief.

It's great that a service was of value for you.  I'm sure they are for many people.  But not everyone finds them helpful or useful in the grieving process. 

lhamo

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2664 on: July 01, 2021, 09:31:20 PM »
We had a lovely memorial for my mom a little more than a month after she passed. It gave us time to put together a nice slide show. My brother gave the eulogy and everybody understood when he broke down after mentioning her love of baking and hatred of other types of cooking (including some particularly unhealthy 70s casseroles that were on a very limited meal rotation).

But one of the best things I did was to have a separate little service at the assisted living facility where she spent her last few months. The staff and the other residents had been so kind, I wanted to acknowledge they had lost her, too. It meant so much to them. They said it was one of the few opportunities they had had to hear stories about their friends from their kids, and say goodbye. I was really moved by how touched they were. And bemused that somebody ran off with the family photo from my brother's wedding I had put out!

Zamboni

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2665 on: September 16, 2021, 09:59:40 PM »
^Weird that you lost a photo at the service . . . maybe another family member took it? I'm sure it was a nice photo. In any case, that was very nice of you to have a remembrance event at the care facility.

"narcissistic shit show"
I'm going to this type of funeral very soon. :-(  Wish me luck.

Sugaree

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2666 on: September 17, 2021, 04:31:06 AM »
"narcissistic shit show"
I'm going to this type of funeral very soon. :-(  Wish me luck.


I went to one of those recently.  May the odds be ever in your favor.

saguaro

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2667 on: September 17, 2021, 08:10:34 AM »
"narcissistic shit show"
I'm going to this type of funeral very soon. :-(  Wish me luck.
I went to one of those recently.  May the odds be ever in your favor.

Recently attended one also.   Wishing you luck.

Sibley

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2668 on: September 17, 2021, 08:15:08 AM »
"narcissistic shit show"
I'm going to this type of funeral very soon. :-(  Wish me luck.
I went to one of those recently.  May the odds be ever in your favor.

Recently attended one also.   Wishing you luck.

If you can stay out of the shit, and view it as entertainment, it can actually be pretty fun. Unfortunately, the odds of being able to do both of those things is not great. Good luck.

Zamboni

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2669 on: September 17, 2021, 05:21:20 PM »
^This is good advice.

The narcissistic shit show did morph from sad and scary to guarded awe at the shear performative aspect of it to being able to kind of chuckle at the absurdity by the end of the several days. It was super super duper hard on my other half, though. Having other sane family around who started with neutral face but ended with some clandestine eye rolling helped. We are now relieved it is over but totally exhausted by it all.

AMandM

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2670 on: September 19, 2021, 02:43:34 PM »
My sisters and I have started making contingency plans to neutralize, or at least de-energize, the person likely to start a narcissitic shit-show when my father dies. Feed her a low-information diet, make plans without her, refuse to engage in discussions of said plans, decline to help implement any crazy plans she will want to make. Really we're hoping she dies before he does.

Zamboni

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2671 on: September 19, 2021, 05:06:50 PM »
^Good luck with that. You're gonna have to move fast, though, if the time comes, because these narcissistic shit show people are freight trains.

Get your ducks in a row, people, and do NOT hide the documentation about your lined up ducks in a "safe" place. And please get rid of most of your stuff way, way before you die. Seriously.

MissNancyPryor

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2672 on: September 19, 2021, 05:49:15 PM »
Now we need the stories.  You all can't drop this many tease-y tidbits without a payoff.  View it as therapeutic.     

Zamboni

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2673 on: September 19, 2021, 06:30:48 PM »
All I'm gonna say at this time here is that the narcissistic shit show freight train person went to the house of the deceased and found what may have been the only copy of the will within 24 hours of the death. She told siblings she found it and it was "really old", that she didn't like who was in it, and that she was going to burn it. Now she denies that there ever was any will, and says she plans to move into the home of the deceased "so it stays in the family."

Within 24 hours of the death, she also went to the bank of the deceased to try to get the account information. Instead of providing it, the bank thanked her for letting them know about the death and told her the assets, which they will not disclose to her in any way, are now frozen. She seemed genuinely surprised that they bank would not give her money or information about accounts that are not in her name.

Since this is likely going to turn into a legal mess, I'm not going to write any more until it's all sorted out. But think about what happened here when you are making your own estate plans.

RetiredAt63

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2674 on: September 19, 2021, 06:48:01 PM »
Zamboni, my lawyer has the original of my will.  I have a copy.  Na crazy relative is going to show up, but a lawyer's office is safer than my apartment.

PS  The best part of between periods is watching the Zamboni make the ice beautiful.  I like your user name.   :-).

Zamboni

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2675 on: September 19, 2021, 06:54:40 PM »
^Send a copy of your lawyer's business card to every single person who will inherit anything in your will. Seriously. Then send them a photo of the card via text and email. Make sure everyone knows where it is . . . not just one person or even a couple of people. Some of the people you might think are responsible will flake out and lose the card, or that type of "might or might not need it someday" little business card could be lost in a fire (as happened to my better half).

Zamboni

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2676 on: September 19, 2021, 07:11:59 PM »
Quote
PS  The best part of between periods is watching the Zamboni make the ice beautiful.  I like your user name.   :-).

Thank you. Just trying to make the path smoother for those who come after me.

Send a copy of your lawyer's business card to every single person who will inherit anything in your will. Seriously. Then send them a photo of the card via text and email. Make sure everyone knows where it is . . . not just one person or even a couple of people. Some of the people you might think are responsible will flake out and lose the card, or that type of "might or might not need it someday" little business card could be lost in a fire (as happened to my better half).

SwordGuy

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2677 on: September 19, 2021, 07:43:31 PM »
I also have a laminated version of the card in my wallet and so does my wife.  It clearly says to contact them for the will.

Finances_With_Purpose

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2678 on: September 20, 2021, 01:32:57 AM »
All I'm gonna say at this time here is that the narcissistic shit show freight train person went to the house of the deceased and found what may have been the only copy of the will within 24 hours of the death. She told siblings she found it and it was "really old", that she didn't like who was in it, and that she was going to burn it. Now she denies that there ever was any will, and says she plans to move into the home of the deceased "so it stays in the family."

Within 24 hours of the death, she also went to the bank of the deceased to try to get the account information. Instead of providing it, the bank thanked her for letting them know about the death and told her the assets, which they will not disclose to her in any way, are now frozen. She seemed genuinely surprised that they bank would not give her money or information about accounts that are not in her name.

Since this is likely going to turn into a legal mess, I'm not going to write any more until it's all sorted out. But think about what happened here when you are making your own estate plans.

This has "get a lawyer" written all over it -- as in yesterday.  Whoever else is involved needs to protect themselves, ASAP.  Going to be an absolute mess now, no matter what.  If she burned a will, it's into criminal territory. 

Also: that's a terrific reason not to post/say more about it here. 
« Last Edit: September 20, 2021, 01:34:32 AM by Finances_With_Purpose »

Villanelle

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2679 on: September 20, 2021, 03:44:55 PM »
All I'm gonna say at this time here is that the narcissistic shit show freight train person went to the house of the deceased and found what may have been the only copy of the will within 24 hours of the death. She told siblings she found it and it was "really old", that she didn't like who was in it, and that she was going to burn it. Now she denies that there ever was any will, and says she plans to move into the home of the deceased "so it stays in the family."

Within 24 hours of the death, she also went to the bank of the deceased to try to get the account information. Instead of providing it, the bank thanked her for letting them know about the death and told her the assets, which they will not disclose to her in any way, are now frozen. She seemed genuinely surprised that they bank would not give her money or information about accounts that are not in her name.

Since this is likely going to turn into a legal mess, I'm not going to write any more until it's all sorted out. But think about what happened here when you are making your own estate plans.

This has "get a lawyer" written all over it -- as in yesterday.  Whoever else is involved needs to protect themselves, ASAP.  Going to be an absolute mess now, no matter what.  If she burned a will, it's into criminal territory. 

Also: that's a terrific reason not to post/say more about it here.

I'd say that it might be a good time to really evaluate things and consider whether it's worth it.  This is another way that FU money can come in handy.  It there is a freight train loaded with manure heading toward you, you can simply decide to step off the tracks and walk away.  This is, loosely, my plan for an estate from which I may someday be a partial inheritor, along with someone very, very likely to be difficult, dishonest, and distasteful.  It is likely to be a fairly modest amount (I'd estimate--but could be wrong!-- that it will be less than $100k).  For the headache it may well be, that's just not worth it.  Telling the other party they can have everything (but also must do all the work), signing whatever needs to be signed to have no part of any of it, and walking away may well be worth the price.

FU money for inheritance instead of employment. 

Zamboni

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2680 on: September 20, 2021, 04:35:55 PM »
^Yes, this strategy is definitely in play, thank you for the reminder. One of the other heirs has already said she plans to go that route because she can't deal with the drama and lives far away.

Basically it rewards someone for their terribly toxic behavior, which has been a pattern for decades. But my other half had already mentioned completely going no contact with this person whether or not the FU money is used to avoid an estate dispute. He has told me for years how totally rotten this person is, but I never witnessed it first hand until now. Whatever is decided by my beloved, I will be fully supportive, of course.

Finances_With_Purpose

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2681 on: September 20, 2021, 05:46:15 PM »
Yeah, to be clear: I wasn't proposing lawsuits, just a consult to consider the options up front, before it's even more of a dumpster fire.  Some things are easier to fix if you act quickly. 

I've helped a close relative do exactly what you both describe @Villanelle and @Zamboni : walk away to avoid the troubles and disputes, even though it rewarded misbehavior.  Sometimes that's the best option.  All depends upon the person, and any good lawyer should be able to advise about all of those options and whether it's worthwhile to even bother considering.  I certainly recommend strongly considering the walk away option; life's too short. 

Sibley

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2682 on: September 20, 2021, 09:05:47 PM »
I'm not quite sure that it's a reward for misbehavior, though I'm sure that at least in the short term it will feel like one. If someone pulls all that crap and gets what they want right now, but everyone else decides they're just done and walks away.... It may not be a problem initially. But at some point, they're going to want something, or need help, and no one is going to be there.

By the River

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2683 on: September 21, 2021, 07:28:42 AM »
I think my wife's family may have headaches with a couple of her brothers fighting over what I assume will be a smaller inheritance (~$100K?).   It would be great to just walk away but she has been made executor by her parents because she is the level headed one.  We probably need to discuss this with them and see if we can move that duty to a neutral party. 

SwordGuy

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2684 on: September 21, 2021, 07:47:03 AM »
I think my wife's family may have headaches with a couple of her brothers fighting over what I assume will be a smaller inheritance (~$100K?).   It would be great to just walk away but she has been made executor by her parents because she is the level headed one.  We probably need to discuss this with them and see if we can move that duty to a neutral party.
As the executor you have the authority to hire out the tasks that need to be done.  By law you're probably allowed to charge for your time and expenses, which can be used to pay the person you hire.  Problem solved.

zolotiyeruki

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2685 on: September 21, 2021, 08:14:05 AM »
I'm not quite sure that it's a reward for misbehavior, though I'm sure that at least in the short term it will feel like one. If someone pulls all that crap and gets what they want right now, but everyone else decides they're just done and walks away.... It may not be a problem initially. But at some point, they're going to want something, or need help, and no one is going to be there.
That's a very important point.  Also, If the toxic person receives a double (or triple) inheritance but doesn't have any fiscal discipline, the larger windfall is likely to only marginally extend and/or enrich the ensuing spending spree.  I.e. the extra money will buy the toxic person a couple months worth of pleasure, at the cost of trashing what's left of their familial relationships.

Villanelle

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2686 on: September 21, 2021, 10:57:28 AM »
I'm not quite sure that it's a reward for misbehavior, though I'm sure that at least in the short term it will feel like one. If someone pulls all that crap and gets what they want right now, but everyone else decides they're just done and walks away.... It may not be a problem initially. But at some point, they're going to want something, or need help, and no one is going to be there.

Also, I don't care if their bad behavior is rewarded.  I can only control and influence my life and if the decision makes my life better and easier, I don't care what it does to their life.  If choice A is better for me than choice B, I will choose A and if that means the other person ends up with $10m dollars?  Thats irrelevant because I could only choose between A or B for myself.  I'm not going to make my life worse by going with B, just because I want to make sure their life isn't made better by my choice, regardless of what I think they may "deserve". 

(Clearly, in healthy relationships with reasonable people, choosing between A and B isn't always about just what is best for only one's self.  But when you no longer care how your decision affects them then all you can do is look at what is best for you.  If that happens to make their life better too, it is irrelevant.)

And to Sibley's specific point, I also agree.  When I've considered the possibility walking away from an inheritance, it has always been with the idea that if it comes to that it will be, "Congrats, everything is yours. You are also now the executor and even though you are bumbling idiot, you have to sort out, on your own, how to manage that and what is legally required including paperwork, tax filing, and everything else.  And, lose my number.  This is the end of the relationship.  The $100k [or whatever the amount is] you are receiving is the cost of our relationship which is now over in all ways."  And for someone like this person specifically, that may not feel meaningful initially, but they are not good at life and have spend their entire life being dependent on other people.  Even something like filing their own, very basic taxes has probably always been handled by a family member.  (And yes, this is an able-bodied and able-minded adult.  They just dig in and remain intentionally ignorant on so many aspects of basic adulting.)  So it likely will be problematic for them.  When the money is spent, which will happen quickly, they will want a hand out.  When they can't figure out how to tell various entities that the person has passed away, in order to get access to accounts or proceed with legalities, they will want help. When they need to sell a house but don't know how, they will be at the mercy of whatever real estate agent they find.  When they decided to invest everything in Bitcoin, not even understanding the most basics of what Bitcoin is, and they lose it all?  Not my problem.   In this scenario, I would not take those phone calls because this person would be basically a stranger to me.  Less than a stranger, in fact, because a stranger is neutral and hasn't squandered any good will or decency. 

So sure, their bad behavior might be rewarded with more inheritance, but that will hardly be the boon they make think it is. 

Finances_With_Purpose

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2687 on: September 21, 2021, 07:54:35 PM »
Yeah.  It's a cost to you to do that (i.e. rewards misbehavior), but it's also the cheapest/best option sometimes--and sometimes by a mile! 

This perfectly illustrates the difference between people who make the pie larger so that everyone has more pie and enjoys it...and those who destroy the whole pie while pissing everyone off if they can't have every last scrap that they want.  So sad.  Life could be so much better.  (Corollary: these are precisely the people I try like hell never to hire.) 

I like the hard-life lesson there @Villanelle , and your point is spot on: long term, all it does is guarantee the person a more meager and difficult existence. 

Zamboni

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2688 on: September 21, 2021, 08:45:05 PM »
With each passing day it becomes more and more clear that walking away from this mess indeed might be the best answer.

It is becoming clear that there are two relatives who will be fighting like crabs in a bucket over this fairly small estate. One destroyed the will (explicitly because the other was named in it), and told others proudly in real time, but now denies it ever happened and says no will was found. They hate each other, of course, but this week they seem to be trying to form some sort of weird but certainly transient alliance against the two other heirs, who are rational people.

There's no way their alliance will last even a month, much less as long as it takes to get through probate, because the bottom line is that they both want the house and/or contents of the house of the deceased for themselves. Right now they seem intent on finding reasons to cut out the people who live out of town. To hear them tell it, neither cared enough about the deceased to stay living in the same town with her, so why should they inherit anything, amirite? But neither of the crabs-in-a-bucket are competent at all. Both have always "needed" help and had enablers. Their principal helper/enabler is the deceased. You all hit that right on the head. I guess it's a common theme in families.

Probably an actual lawyer should be appointed as administrator of the estate. Thankfully there is an abundance of lawyers, so perhaps one will be willing take on the estate administration for the state allocated fee? Does anyone have experience with something like that?

Finances_With_Purpose

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2689 on: September 22, 2021, 12:47:28 AM »
I'm not a lawyer/don't know where you are, so I'll start from that point.  I happen to have walked through these types of things with some people, though.  To your questions, here's what I would do and why:

First, a lawyer can't just up and decide to take over someone's estate.  Instead, in general, a person involved must ask for that--someone who has an interest has to ask for that.  So someone would have to get involved, most likely, to make that happen. 

I don't know how it works where you are, but in many places you'd have to go to court, notify the other siblings, and convince a judge to appoint some other lawyer to run things (which might be easy to do in this case).  All at your own cost initially, since clearly, these guys aren't going to agree to let anyone else control it but themselves. 

So, what would I do? 

1.  Consult a lawyer now, even if you don't plan to sue or be involved.  For instance, you mentioned a house.  I'm guessing they won't pay taxes on it until ownership is decided.  Maybe they'll fight over who lives there.  They'll surely fight over who pays what. 

The third heir - the honest person - will be on the hook too, though, and may get tagged for debts due for the house/estate eventually.  It can become a mess; I've seen a relative sued for foreclosure over a house she disclaimed and didn't want.  It was just good that she wasn't trying to get a mortgage at the time.  (Ditto suits if someone gets injured there.)  You may want to figure out a reasonable exit plan, even if that's just to disclaim whatever you may have been entitled to. 

2.  Hire a lawyer if you plan to take any action steps, though at least consult one regardless.  Go to a lawyer you know and trust.  You ultimately want a good estate litigation lawyer in the area near where this house/estate is (i.e. in that state and not too far away).  But you may not know one, so find a lawyer that you do know and trust to help you find the right lawyer.  That'll help in many ways, and it protects you to some extent against getting some weird scumbag. 

Short answer is that you need a consult if not a lawyer for the longer term.  Depends on what your loved one wants to do, but the best way to decide that is to go lay it all out for a lawyer and weigh the options. 

Since there's a house, I would assume that this whole fiasco will be long and ugly until.  Eventually, a bank may foreclose for debts on the house, or a government will, for taxes (and taxes may take years upon years), or the courts will ultimately take it over.  All of those futures will are messy and probably a long ways away. 

Houses are hard to sell without: (1) the titled owner or (2) agreement among those who remain.  So you may as well get some legal help to figure out what to do.  You'll rest better even if the best option is to sit on it for ten years and do nothing. 

Besides, the lawyer may give you devilish lawyer ideas like (**consult a lawyer first!!**): do nothing until the brothers are finally forced to create an estate in a court in order to sell the house and they are desperately fighting over who's in charge.  Then send in a lawyer (or a letter) to the court to notify the judge that Brother A burned the actual will and is using that to commit fraud against both the parents and the heirs.  You are ready and willing to testify and also supply the judge the names of witnesses who heard Brother A tell them that himself and have no financial interest, should this proceed, and you now request that those witnesses be called to testify.  Furthermore, you have notified the police and their presence will be requested as well.  You can politely suggest that you, the honest heir, don't want to profit from the Brothers' shenanigans, which have harmed everyone (including the court), and you lament that the actual will probably had thoughtful protections for Brother A, Brother B, you, and the Court from having to deal with this godawful ugly public mess that Brother A has now necessitated.  Sadly though, you just can't stand to sit idly by and watch Brother A profit from theft against your parents and destruction of all that they built while these brothers smear their good reputation, so you felt it necessary to propose that the court allocate Brother A's fair share to a charity/cause that your parents liked, in their honor, since we'll never know what the will said, but we know it was worse for Brother A, and that he committed fraud to stop it.  Then sit back and watch Brother A self-immolate while the court spends the rest of the case finding creative ways not to give Brother A one single dime.  Because consequences. 

But really, it may be better for your mental health to just do a consult and then walk away entirely in the most efficient manner possible and let the others go to war with one another while you're enjoying life somewhere far, far away. 

talltexan

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2690 on: September 22, 2021, 06:15:25 AM »
Imagine a circus like this, and OP somehow convinces the two dramatic siblings to actually pay a few $K to walk away?

Dicey

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2691 on: September 22, 2021, 07:25:13 AM »
Imagine a circus like this, and OP somehow convinces the two dramatic siblings to actually pay a few $K to walk away?
Because OP would never, ever be rid of them.

Zamboni

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2692 on: September 22, 2021, 01:52:22 PM »
Instead, imagine one dramatic sibling demanding that she be paid over $10K cash (or sent $10K via Venmo) by the end of the day TODAY, because that is a conversation that just happened . . . not even two weeks since the death. This was a quick death too, as deaths go, not a prolonged illness where bills piled up. No offer to provide receipts for anything, no polite request to work together to figure things out, just a nasty and rude demand for money immediately "for the bills."

We may be the only people she knows who do have that amount of money easily accessible today, although thankfully our stealth wealth means we can deny having it, but it's going to be a no from us anyway. Which is sad, because if she was decent on any level we would just pay for things and help her sort it out (or at least take the necessary steps get it all taken care of by someone else who is competent.) My God, this is so ugly.

Dicey

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2693 on: September 22, 2021, 01:56:40 PM »
That was fast.

Villanelle

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2694 on: September 22, 2021, 02:48:18 PM »
Instead, imagine one dramatic sibling demanding that she be paid over $10K cash (or sent $10K via Venmo) by the end of the day TODAY, because that is a conversation that just happened . . . not even two weeks since the death. This was a quick death too, as deaths go, not a prolonged illness where bills piled up. No offer to provide receipts for anything, no polite request to work together to figure things out, just a nasty and rude demand for money immediately "for the bills."

We may be the only people she knows who do have that amount of money easily accessible today, although thankfully our stealth wealth means we can deny having it, but it's going to be a no from us anyway. Which is sad, because if she was decent on any level we would just pay for things and help her sort it out (or at least take the necessary steps get it all taken care of by someone else who is competent.) My God, this is so ugly.

Wow. 

This is when my, "we have no extra cash" speech comes in handy.  And it is also true, if a bit misleading (especially when inferences are made by a spendthrift). It's true because none of our money is "extra". 

Is this supposedly for bills related to the estate?  What $10,000 bills come up in two weeks?

SwordGuy

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2695 on: September 22, 2021, 03:21:39 PM »
Instead, imagine one dramatic sibling demanding that she be paid over $10K cash (or sent $10K via Venmo) by the end of the day TODAY, because that is a conversation that just happened . . . not even two weeks since the death. This was a quick death too, as deaths go, not a prolonged illness where bills piled up. No offer to provide receipts for anything, no polite request to work together to figure things out, just a nasty and rude demand for money immediately "for the bills."

We may be the only people she knows who do have that amount of money easily accessible today, although thankfully our stealth wealth means we can deny having it, but it's going to be a no from us anyway. Which is sad, because if she was decent on any level we would just pay for things and help her sort it out (or at least take the necessary steps get it all taken care of by someone else who is competent.) My God, this is so ugly.

Wow. 

This is when my, "we have no extra cash" speech comes in handy.  And it is also true, if a bit misleading (especially when inferences are made by a spendthrift). It's true because none of our money is "extra". 

Is this supposedly for bills related to the estate?  What $10,000 bills come up in two weeks?

First of all, you don't owe anyone anything as far as the estate goes.   Neither does your sibling.

The estate owes the money.   The only way you can become liable is if you voluntarily choose to accept something that has a debt attached to it.  You can just refuse the item and leave it and the debt for the estate to settle.

If you notify any reasonable and/or competent business that the person who owes them money has died and the paperwork for being the executor has not yet been received, they'll know you simply can't pay them yet and they will wait.   Utility companies know this.  So do credit cards, mortgage holders, car finance companies, etc.  Ditto for doctors and hospitals.

So, unless it's some loan collectors from the local loan shark equipped with some baseball bats, there's simply little reason for that kind of urgency.   

If there truly is an emergency, then it should be easily explainable and independently verifiable.


AMandM

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2696 on: September 23, 2021, 06:31:24 AM »
In Zamboni's case, the theft and destruction of the will seems to me the first problem, because how do you even appoint an executor until the existence of the will is settled? Can Zamboni's SO extricate himself from the whole process before there even is a process?

Zamboni, all my sympathy to your SO and you!

Zamboni

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2697 on: September 23, 2021, 03:11:37 PM »
^Thank you for the sympathy. It is highly appreciated. What a weird week!

First of all, you don't owe anyone anything as far as the estate goes.   Neither does your sibling.

The estate owes the money.   The only way you can become liable is if you voluntarily choose to accept something that has a debt attached to it.  You can just refuse the item and leave it and the debt for the estate to settle.

If you notify any reasonable and/or competent business that the person who owes them money has died and the paperwork for being the executor has not yet been received, they'll know you simply can't pay them yet and they will wait.   Utility companies know this.  So do credit cards, mortgage holders, car finance companies, etc.  Ditto for doctors and hospitals.

So, unless it's some loan collectors from the local loan shark equipped with some baseball bats, there's simply little reason for that kind of urgency.   

If there truly is an emergency, then it should be easily explainable and independently verifiable.


Yes, everyone seems to understand that. At least everyone seems to understand that except the "gimme cash today" person, who also happens to be the destroyer of the last will and testament (DotLWaT!).
DotLWaT! also demands everyone sign (& get notarized) a freshly prepared document she has had drawn up that declares her to be the executor of the estate. It's not the will . . . you can imagine how (not) well that worked.

Wow. 

This is when my, "we have no extra cash" speech comes in handy.  And it is also true, if a bit misleading (especially when inferences are made by a spendthrift). It's true because none of our money is "extra". 

Is this supposedly for bills related to the estate?  What $10,000 bills come up in two weeks?

I like that "no extra cash" phrasing. Gonna borrow that as needed ;-)

That was fast.

SO's family has a relatively high proportion of fast twitch muscle. My own genetics lean more towards slow twitch . . . I can keep shaking my head "no" forever, for example.

@Finances_With_Purpose, those are some great ideas. Very creative. It seems like "sit on it and do nothing" is the direction this is headed, though, mostly because the siblings don't want to interact with DotLWaT! at all anymore. It takes two to make a fight, they say. So true.

Catbert

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2698 on: September 23, 2021, 04:42:56 PM »
For those of you planning to (wisely) nope out, please stay close enough to the situation that you can watch and report.  :-/   Zamboni is already providing me with a popcorn situation.

Adventine

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #2699 on: September 23, 2021, 05:09:55 PM »
I wonder what terrorist tactic Destroyer of the Will is going to come up with next!