Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.

[Imma]

What I don’t get is that people would publicize updates to their will and who is/isn’t in it this go-round. Sounds extremely manipulative to me.

Publicizing in that manner may be manipulative, but you should always share your plans with the people involved. What's in your will should not be a surprise to people after you die.

I've been thinking about this actually. The way my aunt handled things is manipulative, for sure. I don't want to be like that. But Covid got me thinking a little bit. We are a childless couple with no nieces/nephews. We have left money to some relatives and friends and not to others. We've written very plainly in our will that A and B are not going to inherit and no one is going to be surprised because we're not in touch at all. And I figured that everything will go to the surviving spouse first anyway.

But with Covid I realized that we could pass at roughly the same time as well (from a legal point of view this is covered in the will). Someone outside of us needs to be aware of our will, where in the house we keep our financial stuff, who has keys to the house etc. But who do you pick? It is well known that we don't like A and B and we haven't been in touch for years and years. But our heirs do have a bond with them and I don't want to burden them with that information.

Another concern, a friend of mine was recently contacted by police that a long lost sibling was dying in the hospital. Turns out the police contact family members in a certain specific order in our country and guess which relatives are on top of our lists? Yes.  A and B. Now, I hope our relatives would contact the rest of the family but since these people are idiots I have no idea what they'd do. I've arranged medical power of attorney and my own doctors are aware of that but if I fall ill out of town and the wrong people are contacted, it all falls apart. Chances of this happening are low but stakes are high.

[Villanelle]

What I don’t get is that people would publicize updates to their will and who is/isn’t in it this go-round. Sounds extremely manipulative to me.

Publicizing in that manner may be manipulative, but you should always share your plans with the people involved. What's in your will should not be a surprise to people after you die.

I've been thinking about this actually. The way my aunt handled things is manipulative, for sure. I don't want to be like that. But Covid got me thinking a little bit. We are a childless couple with no nieces/nephews. We have left money to some relatives and friends and not to others. We've written very plainly in our will that A and B are not going to inherit and no one is going to be surprised because we're not in touch at all. And I figured that everything will go to the surviving spouse first anyway.

But with Covid I realized that we could pass at roughly the same time as well (from a legal point of view this is covered in the will). Someone outside of us needs to be aware of our will, where in the house we keep our financial stuff, who has keys to the house etc. But who do you pick? It is well known that we don't like A and B and we haven't been in touch for years and years. But our heirs do have a bond with them and I don't want to burden them with that information.

Another concern, a friend of mine was recently contacted by police that a long lost sibling was dying in the hospital. Turns out the police contact family members in a certain specific order in our country and guess which relatives are on top of our lists? Yes.  A and B. Now, I hope our relatives would contact the rest of the family but since these people are idiots I have no idea what they'd do. I've arranged medical power of attorney and my own doctors are aware of that but if I fall ill out of town and the wrong people are contacted, it all falls apart. Chances of this happening are low but stakes are high.

Something like this may be a good role for a friend.  You don't really even need to specify "in case of death".  Just give them a key and tell them where important papers are kept, 'in case of emergency'.

For the second issue, is it a problem if A and B are notified?  Is the concern that they wouldn't then notify C and D, who are the people who need to know?  This could also be something you tell that friend.  "Hey, my family dynamics are a bit strained in some regards.  If anything happens to me and you become aware of it, C and D need to be notified.  Their contact info is in that place I told you all our important papers are located.  They also have medical PoA."

You might also make sure your phone is set up with an emergency contact.  I don't know about other systems, but with Apple there is a way to do this that first responders and hospital staff can access that emergency contact without unlocking your phone.  Google can tell you how to do it, but it's pretty simple.  My coroner sister alerted me to the function and encouraged me to use it.  If you set that to C or D, they'd get the call and could step in. 

[iris lily]

What I don’t get is that people would publicize updates to their will and who is/isn’t in it this go-round. Sounds extremely manipulative to me.

Publicizing in that manner may be manipulative, but you should always share your plans with the people involved. What's in your will should not be a surprise to people after you die.

Both attorneys we talk to about wills  say make your  intentions known before hand. No surprises.

I am uncomfortable with that advice for my household because my will will not look like it does now in ten years, in 20 years.

Part of the notification can be that you plan to review it every 5 years (or whatever), and if anything major happens.  Lots of life events mean wills need revision. 

Plus you don't have to go into great detail.  Person X is my executor, person Y is backup, rough division of assets.  A list for important personal items.  Where the executor can find the will, important documents.Etc.

This has been standard in my family, no drama in any generation.

Oh relevant parties know who the executors are and where to find the will.

 It’s when we talk about rough division of assets ...that will change. I’m less and less interested in leaving money to relatives as time goes on. And as I plan to spend my assets, it will be less likely that I will divide assets 10 ways as in our current will.

[SwordGuy]

Another concern, a friend of mine was recently contacted by police that a long lost sibling was dying in the hospital. Turns out the police contact family members in a certain specific order in our country and guess which relatives are on top of our lists? Yes.  A and B. Now, I hope our relatives would contact the rest of the family but since these people are idiots I have no idea what they'd do. I've arranged medical power of attorney and my own doctors are aware of that but if I fall ill out of town and the wrong people are contacted, it all falls apart. Chances of this happening are low but stakes are high.

We have a laminated card in our wallets from our lawyer that directs the appropriate parties to contact them.

[Imma]

What I don’t get is that people would publicize updates to their will and who is/isn’t in it this go-round. Sounds extremely manipulative to me.

Publicizing in that manner may be manipulative, but you should always share your plans with the people involved. What's in your will should not be a surprise to people after you die.

I've been thinking about this actually. The way my aunt handled things is manipulative, for sure. I don't want to be like that. But Covid got me thinking a little bit. We are a childless couple with no nieces/nephews. We have left money to some relatives and friends and not to others. We've written very plainly in our will that A and B are not going to inherit and no one is going to be surprised because we're not in touch at all. And I figured that everything will go to the surviving spouse first anyway.

But with Covid I realized that we could pass at roughly the same time as well (from a legal point of view this is covered in the will). Someone outside of us needs to be aware of our will, where in the house we keep our financial stuff, who has keys to the house etc. But who do you pick? It is well known that we don't like A and B and we haven't been in touch for years and years. But our heirs do have a bond with them and I don't want to burden them with that information.

Another concern, a friend of mine was recently contacted by police that a long lost sibling was dying in the hospital. Turns out the police contact family members in a certain specific order in our country and guess which relatives are on top of our lists? Yes.  A and B. Now, I hope our relatives would contact the rest of the family but since these people are idiots I have no idea what they'd do. I've arranged medical power of attorney and my own doctors are aware of that but if I fall ill out of town and the wrong people are contacted, it all falls apart. Chances of this happening are low but stakes are high.

Something like this may be a good role for a friend.  You don't really even need to specify "in case of death".  Just give them a key and tell them where important papers are kept, 'in case of emergency'.

For the second issue, is it a problem if A and B are notified?  Is the concern that they wouldn't then notify C and D, who are the people who need to know?  This could also be something you tell that friend.  "Hey, my family dynamics are a bit strained in some regards.  If anything happens to me and you become aware of it, C and D need to be notified.  Their contact info is in that place I told you all our important papers are located.  They also have medical PoA."

You might also make sure your phone is set up with an emergency contact.  I don't know about other systems, but with Apple there is a way to do this that first responders and hospital staff can access that emergency contact without unlocking your phone.  Google can tell you how to do it, but it's pretty simple.  My coroner sister alerted me to the function and encouraged me to use it.  If you set that to C or D, they'd get the call and could step in.

Yes, they are both not rational people and I could see them not informing family, or delaying it, or making important decisions before other family is contacted. I've seen both behave irrationally under stress, including when I was in the hospital (a long time ago when I was still single). We just can't predict what these people will do. My friend just informed the police that she had no relationship with that sibling, but here's the phone number of the relative that should be contacted, bye. I think our family members wouldn't do that.

My partner is my emergency contact in my phone but I had not considered adding the right family member as the second one. That would probably work! 

Another concern, a friend of mine was recently contacted by police that a long lost sibling was dying in the hospital. Turns out the police contact family members in a certain specific order in our country and guess which relatives are on top of our lists? Yes.  A and B. Now, I hope our relatives would contact the rest of the family but since these people are idiots I have no idea what they'd do. I've arranged medical power of attorney and my own doctors are aware of that but if I fall ill out of town and the wrong people are contacted, it all falls apart. Chances of this happening are low but stakes are high.

We have a laminated card in our wallets from our lawyer that directs the appropriate parties to contact them.

This is also smart. I'm not sure if ours offers this as a service (never heard of it) but it would make sure that the right people would be contacted. We are only in our 30s so likely we won't need all this paperwork for decades, and by that time A and B may have passed away already, but you never know when you may need it.

[jinga nation]

What I don’t get is that people would publicize updates to their will and who is/isn’t in it this go-round. Sounds extremely manipulative to me.

Publicizing in that manner may be manipulative, but you should always share your plans with the people involved. What's in your will should not be a surprise to people after you die.

Both attorneys we talk to about wills  say make your  intentions known before hand. No surprises.

I am uncomfortable with that advice for my household because my will will not look like it does now in ten years, in 20 years.

Part of the notification can be that you plan to review it every 5 years (or whatever), and if anything major happens.  Lots of life events mean wills need revision. 

Plus you don't have to go into great detail.  Person X is my executor, person Y is backup, rough division of assets.  A list for important personal items.  Where the executor can find the will, important documents.Etc.

This has been standard in my family, no drama in any generation.

Oh relevant parties know who the executors are and where to find the will.

 It’s when we talk about rough division of assets ...that will change. I’m less and less interested in leaving money to relatives as time goes on. And as I plan to spend my assets, it will be less likely that I will divide assets 10 ways as in our current will.

Wills can be contested (at least in my US state). Hence we created a revocable living trust to avoid probate.
(Wife has a workplace benefit; we got it done for free.)

https://www.investopedia.com/articles/personal-finance/051315/will-vs-trust-difference-between-two.asp

[iris lily]

What I don’t get is that people would publicize updates to their will and who is/isn’t in it this go-round. Sounds extremely manipulative to me.

Publicizing in that manner may be manipulative, but you should always share your plans with the people involved. What's in your will should not be a surprise to people after you die.

Both attorneys we talk to about wills  say make your  intentions known before hand. No surprises.

I am uncomfortable with that advice for my household because my will will not look like it does now in ten years, in 20 years.

Part of the notification can be that you plan to review it every 5 years (or whatever), and if anything major happens.  Lots of life events mean wills need revision. 

Plus you don't have to go into great detail.  Person X is my executor, person Y is backup, rough division of assets.  A list for important personal items.  Where the executor can find the will, important documents.Etc.

This has been standard in my family, no drama in any generation.

Oh relevant parties know who the executors are and where to find the will.

 It’s when we talk about rough division of assets ...that will change. I’m less and less interested in leaving money to relatives as time goes on. And as I plan to spend my assets, it will be less likely that I will divide assets 10 ways as in our current will.

Wills can be contested (at least in my US state). Hence we created a revocable living trust to avoid probate.
(Wife has a workplace benefit; we got it done for free.)

https://www.investopedia.com/articles/personal-finance/051315/will-vs-trust-difference-between-two.asp

Actually, we do have a trust. Are used the term “will  “just to make life easier here.

[talltexan]

My friend (41M) just lost his Dad (88M). Dad was very successful in business, and lived a rich life that included a late marriage to a third wife six years ago.

I also happen to know that my friend was a committed pro-Business member of the Texas Republican party, for which he gave a series of speeches advocating an elimination of the estate tax. His dad died on 12/31, and part of me cannot help but suspect that no one wanted the estate to be exposed to a possible Biden tax hike.

[livesimplecolorado]

So my mother passed away in 2014. My sister and brother in law were Power of Attorney on all of her accounts prior to her passing away.

Long story short, my sister and I got into some major fight prior to her passing. I was named executor for my mothers will. When it came time to probate my mothers assets, my sister and brother in law put together a three-way call with their attorney to try to get me to release my executor responsibilities and give it to them instead because "They had a system in place" (they were paying my moms bills etc.)

I said no. They got mad at me. They had access to the original will which they refused to turn over unless I had a noterized form sent over to them stating that I will not take my executor commission and split it up between everyone because mom "Wanted everything to be fair." So in essence they had me up against a wall.

My lawyer said no, we are not signing anything. They finally send over the will so I could probate the assets and get appointed as executor. As soon as I was appointed, I went right to my mothers banks (she had two) and had the bank manager turn over the last 14 months of bank statements.

As soon as those statements came to my house, my husband opens it up and calls me at work, he says "This does not look right" He was spot on.

My mother started with 120k in one account, when I took it over there was about 20k left in it. Overall there were over 40 ATM withdrawals by my brother in law (sometimes 2 a day) draining the account before my mother died.

I called my sister about the money and of course she got defensive but I held my ground and told her she was going to have to account for the missing money and anything that was not related to my mothers bills or care was to be paid back.

There was almost 80k that they helped themselves to and that I deducted from their account.

To this day, my sister refuses to admit that they stole anything. We just started communicating again a few months ago, mostly because I have moved past it and let it go. I guess denial is not just a river in Egypt they say.

But I guess the moral of the story was, that my brother in law called me up recently to say he "mismanaged" the money because they were so broke. So the people that are the most desperate do the most immoral things when it comes to money. It was not like my husband and I were rich at the time but we just never thought about stealing anything. Never have, never will.

When the estate was ready to be split up, there was almost 900k in assets. I was so meticulous with all the records and sent everything to my attorney for a full accounting. I guess if I was like my sister or brother in law I could have had a field day with that money. I used to joke with my husband, we can go to an island and have drinks under a palm tree lol.

But, I thought back to my dad who had passed away 5 years prior to my mom, he was the one that put the wills together and appointed me executor. He pulled me aside at the ripe old age of 18 and told me he trusted me and wanted everything split 3 ways, no drama, no fighting. I could not control the fighting part but I could control the fairness part. His words rang through my brain and that was what I did.

My story in a nutshell, money makes people do crazy shit

[ducky19]

Sorry you had to go through that, @livesimplecolorado! I wish that stories like that weren't as common as they are, but there you have it. Good on you for standing your ground and not letting them brow beat or guilt you into submission.

I have a friend who went through a similar amount of drama when her step-mom died. Most of the money had been brought into the marriage by my friend's dad, and the step-mom's will had all assets split 3 ways between her and her three step-siblings. The one step-sister went and completely lost her shit. "Oh, mom wanted my daughter to have the car and this bank account" (that the granddaughter was added to recently), refused to turn over bank statements, demanded that my friend come to AZ "immediately" so they could sell the trailer, etc. Obviously we're not talking about a lot of money (I think it was in the tens of thousands), but this woman started cursing out my friend and her other siblings anytime someone suggested doing something other than her way. It was a complete shit show. I just don't understand people sometimes. My siblings know that if there's something they want, I'm not going to fight them over it when the time comes. I am getting my grandpa's Victrola, sis is getting grandma's bible and the jewelry, brother is getting great-grandma's '61 Buick Special. Honestly, there's not much else in the way of stuff that I want to add to my life, so if there's something they want, go nuts.

[SwordGuy]

... story about horrible sibling and her spouse...

@livesimplecolorado , Bravo.   Well done.    You did the right thing with grace and courage.    I wish we had more people like you in this country.

[saguaro]

@livesimplecolorado  I am sorry you had to go through but also have to say...well done!

But, I thought back to my dad who had passed away 5 years prior to my mom, he was the one that put the wills together and appointed me executor. He pulled me aside at the ripe old age of 18 and told me he trusted me and wanted everything split 3 ways, no drama, no fighting. I could not control the fighting part but I could control the fairness part. His words rang through my brain and that was what I did.

My parents did their wills with everything to be split equally between their 3 daughters and fully expected that there would be no issues.   Little did they know.  Mom died in 2015, Dad in late 2017.   My middle sister (I am oldest of the 3), who had taken over their financials prior to their deaths, was appointed executor.    Neither I or my youngest sister any reason to not trust her, and for the first six months things proceeded normally with the usual stuff and, after meeting with her attorney, middle sister told me and youngest sister that all there remained was selling the house, everything else was done.   This was in spring of 2018.  Btw, this was not a complicated estate with the house as the main asset, one car and one bank account.

To make a long story short, middle sister was continually finding reasons to delay selling the house. Fast forward to late 2019, 2 years had now passed since my Dad's death, the house was now empty, fixed up, a real estate agent engaged, but she continued to stall with crazy reasons on why not to list the house.  Also she refused to provide an accounting to both of us, any requests from us were ignored.   Youngest sister and I decided to hire an attorney to force the sale of the house. Not an easy decision but middle sister was continuing to stall and was not listening to her own attorney.   We figured this would get her to move.  Instead what happened was that per a provision in our parents trust, sister designated me as special trustee to list and sell the house.  House sold 2 months later.  During the time I served as special trustee, I found out that my sister wasn't exactly doing things, um, to put it politely, as correctly as she led us to believe.   

She had never set up an estate account as she said she was going to do but continued to use my Dad's checking account which had her name on it.  Under immense pressure, she finally provided bank statements that showed she took some liberties with the money.   It wasn't enough to be worth fighting over, but it raised some serious questions on how she accessed the account prior to my Dad's death, as his checking account dropped 45K during the 2 1/2 years between my mom's death and my dad's.  I knew roughly what Dad's expenses were and it didn't add up.  She never provided a full accounting of other things either such as my mom's china and silver which we all agreed should be sold.   There was jewelry that went missing. 

My point is that my parents fully expected for everything to be done fairly, without conflict, and never in a million years would they have thought things would go the way they have.    The middle (executor) sister and youngest sister are not speaking.   I am on speaking terms with middle sister (per her initiation) but I am wary, too wary to trust her again.

During the time I was special trustee, I kept in touch with both sisters on the progress (in spite of middle sister being mad) and made sure at the closing, they each got their share of the disbursement.    This was the way it was supposed to be done as my parents wished but it took hiring an attorney and forcing the issue to get there.
 

[Capsu78]

Many common elements to this story on another site:
https://www.early-retirement.org/forums/f27/families-and-inheritance-107772.html

[livesimplecolorado]

Thank you all for your kind words. It has taken me until this last year to just move past some of this and forgive my sister. I think the biggest part of my forgiveness though has revolved around the fact that I need to lower my expectations with her. Sadly, her character has left me with the type of relationship you have with a coworker, not the one we used to have. I think if she admitted things and were honest with me or myself we could actually have a decent relationship, but her ego will not allow this to happen.

I guess for me, this is why I have always been interested in learning as much as I could about money, investing, saving, etc. Why I am a huge fan of MMM. The less dependent you are on others, the system, etc., the less you care about things like inheritance to fix your bad money mistakes.

Unfortunately, my sister and BIL always lived beyond their means, so desperation bleeds into things like this. He told me he only had 6 cents in their account when all of this happened. Just recently, he tried to get me to buy into feeling bad for their choices. I told my sister I knew what happened and I did not care anymore. I was waiting for an "I'm sorry" and that never happened, so I let it go.

When you are not financially secure, when you live beyond your means, when you are trying to impress others with things that nobody cares about, this is what happens when you have access to cash. My mom spent her whole life being frugal. I realized that even If my husband and I had not inherited anything, we would have been fine. My sister would have still been struggling.

Ironically, she has always made more than me too. I could never figure it out.

[livesimplecolorado]

Another thing irked me here (and it's not you): I hate fake apologies.  Oh, yeah, we might have "mismanaged" something.  No: you stole.  Money.  Lots of it.  And you knew you were stealing.  You kept stealing.  Almost daily.  While the person who owned the money was dying.  And your own kin. 

It's the lowest form of theft. 

^This

This is why it took me until just recently to get over it. I used to tell my husband how they had such an over inflated sense of self worth. The fact that my BIL could just help himself to my mothers money still disgusts me.

Recently, I think my sister actually feels some remorse as she has been really trying to connect. She had my BIL call me to explain what happened. This is now 6 years later and all it did was stir up the pot. I expected an admission of guilt and apology, all I got was an excuse about "mismanagement and being so broke they had no choice." Part of the conversation though that put me over the edge was him saying "Your sister had nothing to do with any of this" which is pretty much a lie.

After that call I told my sister, I know what happened to the money and I don't care to discuss it anymore and I also never want to talk to my BIL again.

The positive about all of this is I now feel like I have a real relationship with my sister, I know who she is, I accept that, and I have moved past all of it. Even writing this all down no longer makes me angry like it used to. What I feel now is indifference.

I will never be close to her, that is OK, I can have at least something where we can have pleasant conversation and my son will know his cousins. My friends are my real family. She, sadly, has been demoted.

[livesimplecolorado]

@Finances_With_Purpose


So to your point about protecting myself, I recently put together a trust. I have appointed my best friend as trustee and guardian should anything happen to me.

I have everything detailed to protect myself and my son. I am donating a portion of my estate to the Denver Dumb Friends League and The American Cancer Society.

None of my family will get a dime after the rest goes to my son. My friend will get some as well for taking care of everything.

[Dicey]

@livesimplecolorado, except that she is divorced, my sister could be yours. She was dependant on my parents for $$ support because she didn't want to work. They, in turn, grew ever more dependent on her as they aged, and she was the one with no job who lived the closest. However, The Line was crossed when she started spending their money without permission in a casino, plus a host of other things. I will never trust her again. Further, she is manipulative  (surprise!), so she will take any shred of info and try to use it to her advantage. I've shut off all communications with her. It breaks my heart, but she simply can't be trusted.

My brother and I were co-trustees and co-executors of my parent's modest estate. Ironic that the one who burned through so much of it before they died was also the one being a dick about getting "her" money as we tried to unsnarl the estate mess that my parents unintentionally created. This would be funny, if it wasn't. We actually found the ad my mom had saved from the guy who advertised Wills & Trusts for $495. Yup, that's who they used.

[Smokystache]

@Finances_With_Purpose

...  I am donating a portion of my estate to the Denver Dumb Friends League and The American Cancer Society.

None of my family will get a dime after the rest goes to my son. My friend will get some as well for taking care of everything.

I'll save others a google (like I had to do) - this is a group of pet shelters and medical centers in Colorado that have been around for over 100 years. I wasn't sure if this was a name you called your friend-group or what? Wish the "Our story" page on the website gave more info on how it came to be named this ... it doesn't appear to be anyone's last name...

[Adventine]

@Finances_With_Purpose

...  I am donating a portion of my estate to the Denver Dumb Friends League and The American Cancer Society.

None of my family will get a dime after the rest goes to my son. My friend will get some as well for taking care of everything.

I'll save others a google (like I had to do) - this is a group of pet shelters and medical centers in Colorado that have been around for over 100 years. I wasn't sure if this was a name you called your friend-group or what? Wish the "Our story" page on the website gave more info on how it came to be named this ... it doesn't appear to be anyone's last name...

Thank you for saving me a google :)

I guess it stems from the definition of "dumb" as "unable to speak", not stupid. The name certainly didn't age well...

[Caoineag]

@Finances_With_Purpose

...  I am donating a portion of my estate to the Denver Dumb Friends League and The American Cancer Society.

None of my family will get a dime after the rest goes to my son. My friend will get some as well for taking care of everything.

I'll save others a google (like I had to do) - this is a group of pet shelters and medical centers in Colorado that have been around for over 100 years. I wasn't sure if this was a name you called your friend-group or what? Wish the "Our story" page on the website gave more info on how it came to be named this ... it doesn't appear to be anyone's last name...

Thank you for saving me a google :)

I guess it stems from the definition of "dumb" as "unable to speak", not stupid. The name certainly didn't age well...

Yup when we moved to Denver way back in the day, we were curious which side they were calling dumb, the animals or the humans, lol.

[AMandM]

My story in a nutshell, money makes people do crazy shit

All money does is magnify what's already there: for bad character, it's just a greater opportunity to do wrong.  As they did to you.  (And for good character, it's the opposite.) 
[...]money doesn't make people do anything that they wouldn't already do.  It just makes it easier.

I am curious: For those of you who've had to deal with crazy inheritance drama, was the crazy behaviour a bolt from the blue, brought into being as it were by the prospect of money? Or was is merely a larger-scale version of previous attitudes and patterns, magnified by the prospect of money?

[SwordGuy]

I am curious: For those of you who've had to deal with crazy inheritance drama, was the crazy behaviour a bolt from the blue, brought into being as it were by the prospect of money? Or was is merely a larger-scale version of previous attitudes and patterns, magnified by the prospect of money?

My wife and her brothers all fully expect their sister to act like a spoiled, self-centered ass and to be a pain in the ass throughout the entire process after their mother dies.   This is based on the fact that she acted like a spoiled, self-centered ass when their father died and tried to bilk their mom out of her house some years later.    "Oh, mom, with the 2000 bug about to destroy the nation, can you go ahead and sign your home over to me?  That's because after the year 2000 bug hits I might not be able to get across the country afterwards."    I shit you not, that was her scam.  We expect said house would have been sold out from under the mom shortly thereafter.

None of the three of them have any intention of notifying their sister of their mom's death until AFTER the funeral.   One of the brothers will be the executor and he may hire a lawyer to deal with her so he won't have to.   My wife and the other brother consider that to be in the "money well spent" category.

We don't need the money.   The executor brother doesn't need the money.   The other brother could probably use it.   The selfish sister could certainly use the money which is the single best reason she may go along with the will -- so she can get the money faster.

It won't be fun.

Her mom is a tough old bird, she's getting close to 100 years old and still hanging in there with just one lung working.

[markbike528CBX]

None of the three of them have any intention of notifying their sister of their mom's death until AFTER the wedding.   

Is this an autocorrect from will reading?   Or did I miss something?

Oh , the Y2K scam, awesome in a very twisted way.
I spent Dec 31, 1999 in a suit, pushing a cart with wedding balloons and cake around a grocery store cleared out of canned goods. Best man for the wedding, since introduced them.

[talltexan]

Wait, so you were an attendant for a Y2K wedding?

I feel like there's more of a story there than you've already shared.

[SwordGuy]

None of the three of them have any intention of notifying their sister of their mom's death until AFTER the wedding.   

Is this an autocorrect from will reading?   Or did I miss something?

Oh , the Y2K scam, awesome in a very twisted way.
I spent Dec 31, 1999 in a suit, pushing a cart with wedding balloons and cake around a grocery store cleared out of canned goods. Best man for the wedding, since introduced them.

Sorry, meant to write "funeral"!

[markbike528CBX]

Wait, so you were an attendant for a Y2K wedding?

I feel like there's more of a story there than you've already shared.

Nope, except for being in a suit in a low class town grocery store. No drama.

[TheGrimSqueaker]

Thank you all for your kind words. It has taken me until this last year to just move past some of this and forgive my sister. I think the biggest part of my forgiveness though has revolved around the fact that I need to lower my expectations with her. Sadly, her character has left me with the type of relationship you have with a coworker, not the one we used to have.

When it comes to forgiving someone who will not change his or her behavior, there are two necessary things. First, you have lowered your expectations. Not expecting her to change will save you a huge amount of time and stress. Second, you have put enough distance into the relationship for her behavior to not have a direct effect on you. From that position, it's easy to "forgive" in the sense of not pursuing her for revenge (which doesn't sound like your style anyway) and not investing any more thought or emotional energy into stewing over the initial offense.

Forgiveness doesn't mean you have to give the other person another opportunity to hurt you.

[SunnyDays]

Thank you all for your kind words. It has taken me until this last year to just move past some of this and forgive my sister. I think the biggest part of my forgiveness though has revolved around the fact that I need to lower my expectations with her. Sadly, her character has left me with the type of relationship you have with a coworker, not the one we used to have.

When it comes to forgiving someone who will not change his or her behavior, there are two necessary things. First, you have lowered your expectations. Not expecting her to change will save you a huge amount of time and stress. Second, you have put enough distance into the relationship for her behavior to not have a direct effect on you. From that position, it's easy to "forgive" in the sense of not pursuing her for revenge (which doesn't sound like your style anyway) and not investing any more thought or emotional energy into stewing over the initial offense.

Forgiveness doesn't mean you have to give the other person another opportunity to hurt you.

Agree.  Forgiveness is for your sake, so you don't carry around resentment that will only hurt you in the end.  But it's wise not to forget and not to put yourself in any position with her where her character defect(s) can cause you further harm.  It's sad that your relationship with her has been damaged, but she obviously doesn't care enough about that to take responsibility.  Like Maya Angelou said, "When people show you who they are, believe them the first time."

[Imma]

Thank you all for your kind words. It has taken me until this last year to just move past some of this and forgive my sister. I think the biggest part of my forgiveness though has revolved around the fact that I need to lower my expectations with her. Sadly, her character has left me with the type of relationship you have with a coworker, not the one we used to have.

When it comes to forgiving someone who will not change his or her behavior, there are two necessary things. First, you have lowered your expectations. Not expecting her to change will save you a huge amount of time and stress. Second, you have put enough distance into the relationship for her behavior to not have a direct effect on you. From that position, it's easy to "forgive" in the sense of not pursuing her for revenge (which doesn't sound like your style anyway) and not investing any more thought or emotional energy into stewing over the initial offense.

Forgiveness doesn't mean you have to give the other person another opportunity to hurt you.

Agree.  Forgiveness is for your sake, so you don't carry around resentment that will only hurt you in the end.  But it's wise not to forget and not to put yourself in any position with her where her character defect(s) can cause you further harm.  It's sad that your relationship with her has been damaged, but she obviously doesn't care enough about that to take responsibility.  Like Maya Angelou said, "When people show you who they are, believe them the first time."

It's been a few years so I don't remember where I read it, but one of the most helpful things I've ever read was something like this: "When someone mistreats someone else, with their act they create a negative emotional connection, an emotional debt. Trying to chase after this debt takes a lot of time and energy, and in most cases, this debt can never be fully repaid: the damage cannot be undone or compensated for. When you forgive this debt, you release yourself from the pressure of chasing after it. You no longer have to spend negative energy on someone (wishing someone harm, plotting grevenge) You need to get to a place where you can say: I leave him be. Whatever happens to him, be it good or bad, it's not my concern. When there is no debt, no negative emotional connection, people are free to go their own way, or to resume contact if they want to, without the pressure of the debt".

Someone in my family did awful things to me. At first I was angry of course. But I let it go. I hardly ever even think about that person anymore. If they won the lottery I don't think I'd have hard feelings, but if something awful happened to them I wouldn't be dancing on their grave either. It's just not a matter of concern for my anymore.

My family member is still angry with me though. Even though they have not even attempted to pay back the emotional debt - although it can never be repaid fully you could think of plenty of ways to start "repayments", first of all by acknowledging the existence of the debt - they are demanding "forgiveness" from me like I owe them something. I have forgiven them years and years ago. But "forgiveness" doesn't mean "everything is in the past, let's do what we always did'. It just means "I accept you cannot ever pay this back, so you don't have to and I'll be fine, and what happens to you is of no concern to me". When you forgive an actual loan you also don't have to go and lend money to that person again. You just have accepted that they aren't going to pay it back, and can either continue to see them or not. It's the same for an emotional debt.

[AMandM]

That was a great quote, Imma. It also highlights that letting go of the debt in no way implies any consent to more debt in the future!
 

Even though they have not even attempted to pay back the emotional debt - although it can never be repaid fully you could think of plenty of ways to start "repayments", first of all by acknowledging the existence of the debt - they are demanding "forgiveness" from me like I owe them something.

So often, when a wrongdoer asks for forgiveness, what they really want is whitewashing. They want to be told that they don't owe anything because they never did, instead of recognizing that you have released them from the debt.

[saguaro]

All money does is magnify what's already there: for bad character, it's just a greater opportunity to do wrong.  As they did to you.  (And for good character, it's the opposite.) 
[...]money doesn't make people do anything that they wouldn't already do.  It just makes it easier.

I am curious: For those of you who've had to deal with crazy inheritance drama, was the crazy behaviour a bolt from the blue, brought into being as it were by the prospect of money? Or was is merely a larger-scale version of previous attitudes and patterns, magnified by the prospect of money?

Magnification, in my experience, over and over again. 

Now, there is once in a while an appearance that something is new when someone who had that kernel of a lout all along finally goes all in now that there's suddenly more to gain (e.g. the drunk who realizes that stealing will solve his financial problems caused by drinking), and folks who didn't know him/her well think it must have been the money, while folks who've known the person well aren't that surprised.

Also agree that in my experience it was magnification when it came to executor sister. 

Now in the beginning, I was hoping that she would do the right thing, especially since her role was now a legal responsibility and that same responsibility would ensure she would do things properly.  At the very least, I thought simple greed would get her to resolve things quickly because she was always stressing about "the money" when our parents were alive and pushed both me and youngest sister to pay some funeral costs in order to have "more money left for Dad" which she, of course, had control over.  But no, IMHO having control of our parents' estate was a playground for her controlling and bullying personality, a way to punish me and my younger sister over various "wrongs" either to her or our parents.   The money was a tool of that control, she was a beneficiary as well as executor which meant her decisions affected all of us.   She racked up costs while finding ways to reimburse herself or just flat out didn't account for things altogether. 

One of the very few relatives who knew the situation asked me how my late parents would have felt about getting an attorney to force the house sale.   My answer was "they would have not liked it but they shouldn't have been surprised". 

[mm1970]

My family member is still angry with me though. Even though they have not even attempted to pay back the emotional debt - although it can never be repaid fully you could think of plenty of ways to start "repayments", first of all by acknowledging the existence of the debt - they are demanding "forgiveness" from me like I owe them something. I have forgiven them years and years ago. But "forgiveness" doesn't mean "everything is in the past, let's do what we always did'. It just means "I accept you cannot ever pay this back, so you don't have to and I'll be fine, and what happens to you is of no concern to me". When you forgive an actual loan you also don't have to go and lend money to that person again. You just have accepted that they aren't going to pay it back, and can either continue to see them or not. It's the same for an emotional debt.

This is well said.  I've been reading some comments here and there about Justin Timberlake and Britney Spears of late.  Full disclosure: I don't know enough about either of them to know the full history, nor do I care to.  But apparently, he's apologized.

A significant percentage of headlines have been of the "too little, too late".  Is it really?  Do we REALLY want to say that people can't change, can't have regret, can't be better people?  Sure, in some cases, friends think it's "fake" and he's just trying to save himself from a business standpoint.  (Again, I don't know enough about the situation to know if that is true or false.)  What bothered me is the idea that we don't allow people to become better people.  We don't acknowledge that.

NOW, that doesn't mean she owes him forgiveness.  She owes him nothing.  Donald Trump could become Mother Teresa and I'd never forgive him for being an asshat narcissist.  It doesn't mean he shouldn't become a better person.

[Hula Hoop]

With the Britney Spears thing, I also saw that Perez Hilton is now expressing regret for the way he covered her.  However, none of these people would have said a thing if the documentary hadn't come out.  They are only apologizing because they were "caught" not because they genuinely regret the way they behaved.

[Imma]

I have not really followed the Britney documentary, but from what I believe she herself did not participate? So this is an outsider's view, and not necessarily her own view, right?

That said, I was a teenager when Britney and Justin were the most famous teen couple in the world, so I do remember a bit. In my country there's no viriginity cult like in the US so we were all very confused by why her virginity was such a big deal.  They had a long-term relationship and in our country, it would be the most normal thing if they eventually discovered sexuality together.

It must have been so confusing for her, to present as sexually provocative to an adult audience, which in itself is pretty sickening, regardless of whether she was a virgin or not, and to pretend she was a virgin and a good christian girl outside of the stage. But I also feel bad for teenage Justin. He was also a child star, growing up in the media. He didn't have to pretend he was a virgin because he was a boy, but I feel he was probably also under pressure to show he was a "red-blooded male"  and not a "sissy" who didn't sleep with his gorgeous girlfriend. In his position it was expected from him to brag about sexual conquests, because that's what we expect from handsome young men with lots of female admirers. They were just two teenagers and both of them were probably suffering from gendered expectations. Of course, being a woman, Britney got the worst of it.

I totally agree with you @Hula Hoop that public apologies in the media don't usually mean much. Maybe the documentary opened their eyes, maybe not, maybe they've felt bad about this for a long time, maybe they feel bad they got caught. I just hope that if any of them have anything to say they also reached out to Britney (and other people who got hurt) directly. It would be none of our business of course, but that's the only kind of apology that would mean something.

@AMandM Yes, whitewashing is the good word for my family member's behaviour. That's what they want. There's no genuine regret. But true regret can and does happen, like you said @mm1970 . It doesn't happen often in my experience, but it can happen. My partner also has a relative who has treated him badly in the past. They got in touch again after a few decades and the family member fully recognized what they did and apologized for it. It was clear it was hard for them to do, but they did it anyway. We're a few years later now and that family member is still putting in so much effort into healing this relationship. They're still making an effort, for example reading up on things that interest my partner so they can discuss them together. The past can't be changed but my partner is so happy that this person is trying so hard to be a better person now.

[Zamboni]

So back to the box that of all the things his father owned, was the only thing he really made sure to give to his son while he was still alive. Bf opens the box, and what is in it?
Why, the wedding photos to the second wife. Not a long marriage, a few years, but he kept the photos for 25 years.

Did your bf have a close relationship with the second wife? If not, then that just seems weird to be the one thing he carefully gave his son.

[livesimplecolorado]

I am curious: For those of you who've had to deal with crazy inheritance drama, was the crazy behaviour a bolt from the blue, brought into being as it were by the prospect of money? Or was is merely a larger-scale version of previous attitudes and patterns, magnified by the prospect of money?

To answer your question, it was completely uncharacteristic. We had what appeared to be a decent relationship prior. There were some cracks in the relationship prior but nothing that made me think that this is what would happen.

As a matter of fact, when they were both appointed POA I trusted them completely. Never questioned any decisions.

The problem I think stemmed from the fact that they always seemed to have financial drama. I think the financial drama put them over the edge. I know my sister had some resentment towards me because my husband and I had money, a home, investments because she would complain to my mother all the time. However, she never realized how much we busted our hump to have anything. When my husband and I met we had nothing.

They always aspired to live above their means and seemed concerned with what others thought of them too. Who knows, like I said, money makes people do crazy shit.

[Sibley]

It's actually not surprising that there's so much hinkyness wtih inheritances, especially executors. There's been a lot of research done into fraud and what leads to it. It takes 3 basic things - pressure, opportunity, and justification. Being an executor is opportunity. Financial problems or just plain old grief are pressures. Justification - well, mommy loved me more so I deserve it/mommy loved me less so I deserve it etc work just fine. It's probably more surprising that there are any instances where there isn't fraud.

[livesimplecolorado]

Great @livesimplecolorado .  I got the sense that you had things together already, and I'm glad to hear that you do.  And I meant no criticism, either: it is genuinely hard dealing with folks who behave in those ways.  There's a reason that society often imprison people who act with that kind of disregard for others...

Thank you, and I did not take it as criticism at all. If anything, after all these years, it has been a learning experience for me. For a long time, I grieved the relationship with my sister. But now, it feels honest. I looked at everything through rose-colored glasses with her. The reality was that she always looked down on me and my husband and I never saw it. My friend said once that she underestimated me, thought they could get away with all of it. Perhaps she thought i was less intelligent or "sloppy." Who knows.

The last few months she has been putting a ton of effort into something, some kind of friendship, who knows. I also think she realizes I am indifferent to it, so maybe that is the reason? Guilt could be another, although she would never admit that. Indifference is a good place for me with her right now.

[livesimplecolorado]

It's actually not surprising that there's so much hinkyness wtih inheritances, especially executors. There's been a lot of research done into fraud and what leads to it. It takes 3 basic things - pressure, opportunity, and justification. Being an executor is opportunity. Financial problems or just plain old grief are pressures. Justification - well, mommy loved me more so I deserve it/mommy loved me less so I deserve it etc work just fine. It's probably more surprising that there are any instances where there isn't fraud.

I agree with this. Entitlement really is the main issue. I was executor, I could have been so unethical, but I did what was right. So many people do the opposite though.

[Scotts]

To answer your question, it was completely uncharacteristic. We had what appeared to be a decent relationship prior. There were some cracks in the relationship prior but nothing that made me think that this is what would happen.

As a matter of fact, when they were both appointed POA I trusted them completely. Never questioned any decisions.

The problem I think stemmed from the fact that they always seemed to have financial drama. I think the financial drama put them over the edge. I know my sister had some resentment towards me because my husband and I had money, a home, investments because she would complain to my mother all the time. However, she never realized how much we busted our hump to have anything. When my husband and I met we had nothing.

They always aspired to live above their means and seemed concerned with what others thought of them too. Who knows, like I said, money makes people do crazy shit.

Money is just a tool, not a cause. It has no bias one way or the other. Having it simply allows someone the freedom to make any decision they choose, good or bad.

[saguaro]

Thank you, and I did not take it as criticism at all. If anything, after all these years, it has been a learning experience for me. For a long time, I grieved the relationship with my sister. But now, it feels honest. I looked at everything through rose-colored glasses with her. The reality was that she always looked down on me and my husband and I never saw it. My friend said once that she underestimated me, thought they could get away with all of it. Perhaps she thought i was less intelligent or "sloppy." Who knows.

Dealing with my sister over the last 6 years opened my eyes to how she really thinks and operates.    She has always been, to put it charitably, the source of much hand wringing by our parents but still when she had POA and then became executor, I didn't think she would stoop to fraud and outright theft.   I trusted she would do the right thing because it was our parents' estate.  To hear her tell it, she shouldered "all this responsibility", playing the martyr as opposed to me and my younger sister, but in discovering what I did while selling my parents' home it was pretty much a front for her to take what she wanted.  There are major questions over her handling of my dad's finances, after forcing an accounting from her (btw she was in violation of state law as well as blowing off the annual accounting provision in my parents' trust) but we were only entitled to see what she did as executor not when she had my dad's financial POA. 

All through this she exhibited outright hostility towards us and to this day, while she is making efforts to repair things, that hostility still is apparent, she can blow up at the littlest things.   I have gone through therapy to talk about what happened and while things have been patched up to some extent (for my nephews' sake tbh) I am not certain what the future holds.  I certainly can never trust her again. Covid has made it easy to keep my distance but once it's safe to have family gatherings I am not sure how much I want to see her except in group settings.   

[Psychstache]

She has always been, to put it charitably, the source of much hand wringing by our parents...

Pressure

she had POA and then became executor..

Opportunity

To hear her tell it, she shouldered "all this responsibility", playing the martyr as opposed to me and my younger sister...

Justification

[saguaro]

She has always been, to put it charitably, the source of much hand wringing by our parents...

Pressure

she had POA and then became executor..

Opportunity

To hear her tell it, she shouldered "all this responsibility", playing the martyr as opposed to me and my younger sister...

Justification

Exactly all these things.   

Being tagged by my parents as the more difficult aka "Bad Daughter" earlier in life I believe this set her on the road to proving herself otherwise (in her view) while at the same time seeking compensation of sorts from them when she had the chance via financial POA and executor. 

[TomTX]

Condolences that your sister is a thief who isn't above ripping off family and still emotionally abuses the family.

ZCP may be in order.

[Lomonossov]

Hi all,

After reading the full thread from cover to cover, I decided to tell my inheritance drama as well. It's been an expensive way to learn some lessons. Forget the probable grammar and spelling mistakes of this non-native speaker, if you will. Just another long story, but I hope you find it interesting.

My family, like every other family, doesn't work properly. Mine works a little bit worse than the average, though. My parents got married, divorced, remarried (with each other) again, redivorced and remarried (to other people). My mom got herself a third divorce from the unlucky guy who decided to marry her, my father is still hanging in there. From each of the marriages between themselves, a son was born: I have a smaller brother. I'm 33, he's 25.

Most of my childhood is defined by visit to courts about custody and pre and post-divorce arguments about money. The fact that my parents are not able to handle finances properly is what led to the divorce in the first place. All the estate they were ever able to put together was a very small flat where my brother and I lived, while they were coming and going through the years as a result of different custody agreements and court orders. Every time a new parent came, it brought along pets, couples and their new life. Nobody really cared about my brother and me, we were mostly the free ticket to living in the property.

Eventually, I found a job and left. I was in college and working full time to rent a bedroom, but I was so happy I never had to come back to that place that I didn't care about being poor. My brother was a teenager at the time, and was stuck in that flat. As a result of the last custody change, my father was responsible but he just had found the woman that would become his wife, and decided to move with her, which meant that my brother was living by himself when he was in his late teens. My father paid the mortgage of that flat and gave him a few euros each week for groceries. My brother stopped going to school, and the whole place looked like a heroin-addict place.

After I finished college and found myself a proper average-paying job in a Megacorp I decided to move to the flat and try to make it work. I cleaned and renovated the whole place with money out of my pocket, paid all the bills and taxes that were due and forced my brother to go to trade school. He hated me for it, but after several years of living like a bum he got some training in cooking and found himself a job. I kept paying for all the cost of living for the both of us except from the flat itself, since my parents had finalized paying for it in the meantime. This arrangement lasted around 5 years in total, until I decided to move to another country. I still was sending money to my brother each month to help him get by. Terrible mistake.

Fast forward a few years my mom decides to sell her half of the property to a third party that sues my father to go on auction for his half. After some negotiations and in order to keep my brother living there - since he's earning just enough to live and has no savings to rent anything - we find an agreement in which my father donated his half to my brother, and my brother got a mortgage for the other half, which he bough from the second party. As part of the arrangement, I agreed to pay for half of the mortgage w/o owning any property, since our local law does not allow resident and non-resident mortgages at the same time. In summary, I was paying for half of the flat without owning it on paper because "we all know and appreciate your contribution, and half of it it's yours regardless of papers". Second terrible mistake.

Last summer my brother calls me and tells me that his new girlfriend moved in, after that he informs me that all my memories from childhood (books, pictures, some family objects) were taken to the trash "since you didn't take them with you in all these years" and that he will mail me whatever he's not dumped. After thinking it through I replied that since obviously the arrangement was not honored and I was not free to use the flat to store my things I did not feel welcome anymore and I would stop contributing, I also said I would not expect any reimbursement from my previous contributions. This is the last conversation we had, and it was in August. My father has approached me to ask me to "fix things with your brother" because "you are doing very well in life and does not make a big difference for you" and "one day everything will be sorted on paper, but right now your brother needs a place to live".

Sadly this story has damaged permanently my already not very good relationship with my family and on top of that has costed me a ton of money over the years. I should have set boundaries a long time ago, but the next best time is right now, so I decided to stand and not concede. I'm getting married a few weeks from now and my brother, who was supposed to be my witness, will not attend. I want to think that is for the best.

Due to our local laws parent to child gifts should be discounted from the inheritance, so I have the right to fight for some of this money in court when my parents pass. I don't really count on any inheritance at all for my plans, anyway, and I will probably just forget about the whole thing and renounce to the remaining small spoils that will be there when my parents pass. It's just sad how mixing money and family is a recipe for disaster.

If you made it that far, thanks for reading my sob inheritance story!

[AlanStache]

Lomonossov - I might count you lucky that you did not have any paper work connecting you to the property; much easier to walk away financially.  Leaving family to there own mess can be hard. 

[better late]

Condolences that your sister is a thief who isn't above ripping off family and still emotionally abuses the family.

ZCP may be in order.

ZCP?  Zero contact?

[Lomonossov]

Lomonossov - I might count you lucky that you did not have any paper work connecting you to the property; much easier to walk away financially.  Leaving family to there own mess can be hard.

Yeah, in that sense I was at least able to cut the losses and don't have to be worried about the lack of maintenance or missing taxes.

The personal part is complicated, but if they just want to be in contact with me for my money I'd rather stop the relationship for the time being

[Imma]

Lomonossov - I might count you lucky that you did not have any paper work connecting you to the property; much easier to walk away financially.  Leaving family to there own mess can be hard.

Yeah, in that sense I was at least able to cut the losses and don't have to be worried about the lack of maintenance or missing taxes.

The personal part is complicated, but if they just want to be in contact with me for my money I'd rather stop the relationship for the time being

I'm so sorry for you. That's an awful story. It's very sad to have to cut contact with your family (I know all about it) but sometimes it's the best thing you can do for yourself. It's clear what they appreciated you for.

[Taran Wanderer]

Condolences that your sister is a thief who isn't above ripping off family and still emotionally abuses the family.

ZCP may be in order.

ZCP?  Zero contact?

Zero Contact Policy?