Author Topic: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.  (Read 735647 times)

SwordGuy

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1750 on: July 01, 2019, 07:37:54 PM »
Just to shorten this discussion, everyone so far is in agreement that reasonable people cut off contact with family members who are awful in some manner.   This is not in dispute and needs no defending.

The only item in dispute that I'm aware of is how often children cut off contact from their parents when the parents have done NOTHING wrong.  (And I'm not counting flouncing off and then conveniently (and quickly) forgetting the cut off contact, I'm only counting a permanent cut of all ties.)   I maintain that's extremely rare.



fredbear

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1751 on: July 01, 2019, 09:18:26 PM »
...
The only item in dispute that I'm aware of is how often children cut off contact from their parents when the parents have done NOTHING wrong.  (And I'm not counting flouncing off and then conveniently (and quickly) forgetting the cut off contact, I'm only counting a permanent cut of all ties.)   I maintain that's extremely rare.

You may be right about causeless cutoff.  Cutting off for cause, though; I thought it also rare until I was a kind of ombudsman/enforcer at a large subsidized housing project - tax credits for high-income investors.  Many residents - over half?  I think probably, but I'll stick with "many" - had no contact with their offspring, hadn't for years, and as you got to know them, you understood, and cast your silent but sincere vote with the offspring.  As parents they had taken tiny humans who depended on them and were programmed to look up to them and love them, and through many years of unremitting vile behavior, made those who "ought" to have loved them curdle irretrievably.  I had to talk to a number of the families of our residents, ascertaining if they could or would provide any support, and the answer was "no" in every case but one.  It varied from "Shee-it.  That mothafucka yo problem now," to "I believe I have discharged any duty I may once have had toward her.  Except on the event of her death, please do not contact me about her ever again, Mr. Fredbear."  But other than sometimes coming by to pick up their stuff when we'd evicted and piled it on the curb, the response I got condensed to, "We his family will not constitute a safety net for him; as a representative of the taxpayers, you get to." 
« Last Edit: July 01, 2019, 09:32:44 PM by fredbear »

Dicey

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1752 on: July 02, 2019, 01:21:36 AM »
Probably a question for a lawyer, but I'm trying to sort something out before I bring it up with DH and then, if we decide to go that direction, a lawyer.

Is there a way to set up a will so that people who inherit don't know what others are getting?  (Assuming those people are not the executor.). IOW, could we leave $25,000 to person A, and not give him access to the information that person B got $50,000?  Or not give him access to the fact that the entire state was $1m and 75% was left to charity?
Yes. I had a friend who loaned me money, at his suggestion, when I was buying a house. He liked to make small loans to friends because he enjoyed having a steady stream of checks rolling in each month*. I'd been making payments as scheduled when he died**, about five years later. In his will, it just said he forgave any money he had loaned to me. Our mutual friend (and current flip partner, if anyone's following that adventure) was absolutely dying to know the value of his "gift", but I never told. After five years of payments, there wasn't much balance left, but I appreciated the clean slate. No way will I ever share the details with her. I think she expected more from his estate and imagines I sucked away some huge amount of cash. Nope.

*My friend wasn't stupid. The only condition of the loan was that I buy cheap term life insurance for 3x the loan amount, naming him as the beneficiary, until it was paid off. I gladly paid it until he passed away. Smart man. BTW, he knew how hard I was working to earn the money for the DP. He came to me with the offer; I was not seeking loans from anyone. I worked on commission, and he was my movie/theater buddy. About the third time I said no to a movie because I was working, he hatched this scheme. I knew he did it for others, some of whom had gone belly up and stiffed him. There was zero chance of that happening with me, so I said yes.

Gosh, I never realized this little tale might qualify as an inheritance drama story. Maybe to someone else, but not to me.

**My friend was considerably older, so his death was not unexpected. I worked every day, then spent the night on his tiny sofa every night for the last ten days of his life in case he needed anything during the night. Got up, went home, showered, went to work. I was on my way to his house after work when I got the call from our mutual friend that he had just died. I went straight there to say my goodbyes. Very surreal to spend time with the body of a loved one immediately after they've passed. Oh, I still miss him so! RIP, Waynn, with two N's and no E.

Where I practice, that loan/note would be an asset of the estate and would get listed on the Inventory, which is to be provided to every beneficiary under the Will (and any other interested party of the estate, including known creditors).

But that's a sweet story and a nice friendship you had.
Uh, inventory? What inventory?

UnleashHell

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1753 on: July 02, 2019, 06:11:03 AM »
It's also important to note that people who have generally loving, non-abusive families and social circles frequently are unable (at least without a lot of thought) to understand that Sally didn't cut off her mother for no reason, and maybe Sally's mother is actually really abusive, even if they've never seen the behavior themselves.
From the outside looking in, it can be extremely hard to tell whether the person ending the contact is the abusive or manipulative person. My general rule is to look at the person doing the cutting off. Do they have *any* old friends, family members, or community members with whom they are consistently in contact? If the answer is no, that person is likely to be the problem. Likewise, are they basically functioning or are they dependent on others? If they're dependent on others and are not consistently self-supporting, the isolated person has probably burned through a lot of other supporters and do-gooders before they got to you. There are bound to be mutual friends and acquaintances; asking around to see whether a person whose opinion and character you trust has been burned by that individual is often a good way to tell whether you should invite the exiled individual into your life.

I have appreciated your (almost certainly hard-earned) insight, @Sibley and @TheGrimSqueaker .

I’m estranged from my sibling and have been estranged from my parents in the past (we have a guarded relationship now).  My parents see the estrangement of their children as a failure that reflects badly on them, and so really want to throw a bandaid on it (for appearances’ sake and to check that off their list).

About a year ago they approached me under the guise of “discussing their end-of-life arrangements”, but it was really an attempt to try to bribe me (with an eventual inheritance) into putting a bandaid onto that estrangement.  When I told them my children and I neither needed nor expected any inheritance they were furious.  (In hindsight I should have outright requested that nothing be left to us.  I guess I will should they ever bring this up again.) This episode pushed me to accept that in spite of all the excuses I make for them, my parents really do exhibit manipulative and controlling behaviour towards me (I already grasped that they treated me much more like a possession or an employee than like a person).  I was also really sad to realize they thought that I could be bought.  (I initiated those estrangements when I was young and alone and had not much safety margin to support myself.  If I wasn’t going to be manipulated in exchange for money then, why would I be now when I am older and have saved my own money and have my own family?)

Even just recounting that little episode feels gross.  🤮

Further to the estrangement of my sister. over many years she discounted any help from myself or my parents and very rarely visited or even initiated phone calls. She got very close to my Grandmother who was exceptional at manipulating people with the threat of "the will". Grandmother would make demands and threaten to cut people out of the will if such demands weren't met. Both my parents and myself refused to yield to such demands and we became "bad people" because we wouldn't bend to her will. We got cut out of the will. This is the will of a woman who had 2 husbands die on her and both of them were well insured. It would be an expensive mistake to be cut out of the will.
Turns out that my sister (and the 2 aunts on that side) did everything they could to remain in the will - to the point of excluding us from family gatherings because we'd upset grandma (IE we didn't drive a couple of hours at the drop of a hat to do anything for her). When she finally died we were indeed cut out of the will. However she'd mislead everyone all along. Most of the money was gone. there was only a few thousand left of all the insurance and house sales. And a 20 year old car plus some tools.
Our reaction was basically to shrug - we didn't compromise our principles to chase money from a crazy old lady. The rest of the family - especially my sister - was infuriated - it'd all been for nothing. That turned her even more bitter and lead to cutting all of us off eventually. Of the 3 sisters on that side one is my mother, the other 2 have a total of 3 kids and no grandchildren. My sister is still lining up to end up as the only living recipient of all of that property.
My parents don't care or need it-  they are just fine financially. And I'm about 2 years from quitting work so I'm ok.
My sister - still waiting and seething as far as I know. Don't care. Things were said and done that can't be reversed. I was near where she lived a couple of weeks ago - luckily I didn't bump into her or her husband (who I don't have an issue with).
Its the nieces I feel sorry for - they have been denied a grandmother and an uncle and a side of the family that I believe would have been good to know - but I can't do anything about that - yet.

AMandM

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1754 on: July 02, 2019, 07:24:11 AM »
My siblings and I were VERY well organized and knew it was to be an even split. We were very congenial during all the meetings, lawyer visits, and text/email traffic on decisions. We have zero arguments about anything related to that process and know that our relationship is more important than any amount of money. We met the day after our dad's funeral to discuss our feelings. I said quite plainly that the only thing that mattered to me with the process is that we kept our relationship together. Everyone else agreed right away and that was forefront in our minds as we discussed anything.

I had a friend who loaned me money, at his suggestion, when I was buying a house. He liked to make small loans to friends because he enjoyed having a steady stream of checks rolling in each month*. I'd been making payments as scheduled when he died**, about five years later. In his will, it just said he forgave any money he had loaned to me.
[...]
**My friend was considerably older, so his death was not unexpected. I worked every day, then spent the night on his tiny sofa every night for the last ten days of his life in case he needed anything during the night. Got up, went home, showered, went to work. I was on my way to his house after work when I got the call from our mutual friend that he had just died. I went straight there to say my goodbyes. Very surreal to spend time with the body of a loved one immediately after they've passed. Oh, I still miss him so! RIP, Waynn, with two N's and no E.

Dicey and kanga, it is so heartening to read these stories in the midst of all the other miserable ones. Thank you both! Everyone else, I send you my sympathy!

I am glad that my family is like kanga's. My grandmother's estate was settled with no animosity, even though she died intestate. My mother left everything to my father. My father says his will leaves everything to me and my sisters in equal shares and I anticipate no problems.

zolotiyeruki

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1755 on: July 02, 2019, 07:57:32 AM »
Probably a question for a lawyer, but I'm trying to sort something out before I bring it up with DH and then, if we decide to go that direction, a lawyer.

Is there a way to set up a will so that people who inherit don't know what others are getting?  (Assuming those people are not the executor.). IOW, could we leave $25,000 to person A, and not give him access to the information that person B got $50,000?  Or not give him access to the fact that the entire state was $1m and 75% was left to charity?
*My friend wasn't stupid. The only condition of the loan was that I buy cheap term life insurance for 3x the loan amount, naming him as the beneficiary, until it was paid off. I gladly paid it until he passed away. Smart man. BTW, he knew how hard I was working to earn the money for the DP. He came to me with the offer; I was not seeking loans from anyone. I worked on commission, and he was my movie/theater buddy. About the third time I said no to a movie because I was working, he hatched this scheme. I knew he did it for others, some of whom had gone belly up and stiffed him. There was zero chance of that happening with me, so I said yes.
I suspect your wise and generous friend also recognized that you were wise with your limited money, and therefore a lower risk of defaulting.

Sibley

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1756 on: July 02, 2019, 08:26:53 AM »
Just to shorten this discussion, everyone so far is in agreement that reasonable people cut off contact with family members who are awful in some manner.   This is not in dispute and needs no defending.

The only item in dispute that I'm aware of is how often children cut off contact from their parents when the parents have done NOTHING wrong.  (And I'm not counting flouncing off and then conveniently (and quickly) forgetting the cut off contact, I'm only counting a permanent cut of all ties.)   I maintain that's extremely rare.

Mental illness, personality disorders, and general shittyi-ness goes both ways. There absolutely are instances where the adult child has cut off parents who are generally healthy/normal. The problem is that it's really hard to figure out without knowing a lot of background, which is which.

Even the asking other people as Grimm suggests can fail (though it absolutely helps). There are people who are SO GOOD at codeswitching that they can be horrible monsters and yet even close friends and family are horrified to learn about it.

Just because an individual is an abuser to one person doesn't mean they are to all, and it doesn't mean that they're always an abuser. People are complicated. I regularly reassure victims of this kind of abuse that the good doesn't cancel out the bad, the bad doesn't cancel out the good, and it's ok to have those mixed emotions.

TVRodriguez

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1757 on: July 02, 2019, 11:25:35 AM »

Where I practice, that loan/note would be an asset of the estate and would get listed on the Inventory, which is to be provided to every beneficiary under the Will (and any other interested party of the estate, including known creditors).

But that's a sweet story and a nice friendship you had.
Uh, inventory? What inventory?

Here, the Inventory of the decedent's assets is a pleading that must be filed with the probate court.  It's literally a list of items owned by the decedent in his own name, whether bank accounts, investment accounts, real estate, cash, tangible personal property, etc., that don't have either a joint owner with right of survivorship or a beneficiary (pay-on-death or transfer-on-death beneficiary).

Villanelle

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1758 on: July 02, 2019, 04:55:03 PM »
Probably a question for a lawyer, but I'm trying to sort something out before I bring it up with DH and then, if we decide to go that direction, a lawyer.

Is there a way to set up a will so that people who inherit don't know what others are getting?  (Assuming those people are not the executor.). IOW, could we leave $25,000 to person A, and not give him access to the information that person B got $50,000?  Or not give him access to the fact that the entire state was $1m and 75% was left to charity?
I don't know about the legal side of things, but secrecy is going to be hard to enforce, especially when A and B are individuals who likely have some connection to each other.  I suppose you could say "person A gets $25k and the remainder goes to Charity X," with instructions not to reveal what that remainder is, but I don't know that there's a way to make sure the executor doesn't reveal the amount, or to make sure Person A can't somehow get the info from the charity.

My siblings and I were VERY well organized and knew it was to be an even split. We were very congenial during all the meetings, lawyer visits, and text/email traffic on decisions. We have zero arguments about anything related to that process and know that our relationship is more important than any amount of money. We met the day after our dad's funeral to discuss our feelings. I said quite plainly that the only thing that mattered to me with the process is that we kept our relationship together. Everyone else agreed right away and that was forefront in our minds as we discussed anything.
That's fantastic that your family was able to handle it all so maturely.  I hope the same happens in my family when the time comes.

This would be a case where person A probably wouldn't want person B to know how much A received either.  Imagine you leave $50k to one cousin-A (for example) and $25k to another cousin-B, perhaps in part because cousin B is greedy, hasn't had a meaningful relationship with you, etc.  You'd prefer to avoid the drama that you suspect would come with B finding out he's been "cheated".  And A wouldn't want B to know either, lest B give A a hard time.  It would also make B more likely to challenge the will. 
And if A and B are from different nuclear families, A would have little relationship with B.

So A would have no reason to spill the beans to B, and everyone, including B, would be happier not knowing s/he got less.  But it sounds like that's not possible. 

Dicey

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1759 on: July 02, 2019, 06:34:16 PM »

Where I practice, that loan/note would be an asset of the estate and would get listed on the Inventory, which is to be provided to every beneficiary under the Will (and any other interested party of the estate, including known creditors).

But that's a sweet story and a nice friendship you had.
Uh, inventory? What inventory?

Here, the Inventory of the decedent's assets is a pleading that must be filed with the probate court.  It's literally a list of items owned by the decedent in his own name, whether bank accounts, investment accounts, real estate, cash, tangible personal property, etc., that don't have either a joint owner with right of survivorship or a beneficiary (pay-on-death or transfer-on-death beneficiary).
Hmmm, does having a trust avoid probate? Could that have been why there was no inventory done?

iris lily

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1760 on: July 02, 2019, 08:42:30 PM »
Reading Grimsqeaker’s list of who is likely to blame in estrangements, it doesn't  help me figure out what happened in DH’s family. His niece stopped speaking to her parents ten years ago, about the time she graduated from college.

Niece is a nice young lady with a  responsible job and many interests. She has gone on to get a advanced degree, she got married,  she maintains a close relationship with her brother and her brother’s  child. She has a good relationship with her husband’s family. 

Before she went to college she was really tied to her mothers apron strings, So this pulling apart is doubly odd.

 Her mother is a nice enough but she is the most annoying of DH’s siblings, according to him.I would say they were a little strict in raising niece and her brother, but also the kids had activities and pets as well as chores on the farm.

There is no substance abuse of any kind in either generation.  I think our niece’s father is probably more to blame in this estrangement than her mother, but it’s hard to know.


« Last Edit: July 02, 2019, 08:44:04 PM by iris lily »

Imma

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1761 on: July 03, 2019, 01:50:51 AM »
You never know what goes on behind closed doors. My dad tells everyone he has no idea why I've cut him off. In my hometown everyone is angry at me because I'm such an uncaring daughter.

I grew up in a family where domestic violence was just a normal part of daily life and severed ties after a particularly bad incident when I was 23. I've cut him out off my will in a way that cannot be contested. I hope he has removed me from his will too, any money I would get is going to a domestic violence charity. I would like to get some personal possensions back but I think he will make sure I'll never get them.

A Fella from Stella

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1762 on: July 03, 2019, 03:35:04 AM »
..........................any money I would get is going to a domestic violence charity.............


So sorry for what you went through. It had to take a lot of strength to walk away.

If you are left something in the will and still feel it would best be in a charity, for no/low cost you can make sure the news picks up that that's where your inheritance went. Of course, there's also always FB, or whatever is being used then.

This will be a means of protecting your reputation since they obviously don't care to protect you from near or far.

Hope moving on has been positive.

SwordGuy

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1763 on: July 03, 2019, 05:50:07 AM »
You never know what goes on behind closed doors. My dad tells everyone he has no idea why I've cut him off. In my hometown everyone is angry at me because I'm such an uncaring daughter.

I grew up in a family where domestic violence was just a normal part of daily life and severed ties after a particularly bad incident when I was 23. I've cut him out off my will in a way that cannot be contested. I hope he has removed me from his will too, any money I would get is going to a domestic violence charity.

Good for you.   We're all proud of you and what you've accomplished despite that treatment.

In the USA, every state has a sex offender registry.  People can get a list of known, convicted sex offenders living near them.   There are 322 registered offenders within 5 miles of where I live.    That's not unusual for an urban area by the way.   MANY of those 322 are there for molesting children.   Probably family members since those would be the easiest victims for most people.

Keep in mind, that 322 number is the ones we caught and already imprisoned.   It doesn't include the ones we haven't let out and it most certainly doesn't include the ones that were never turned in by their family or those who knew the children well enough to spot the signs.  It's the tippy-tip-top of the iceberg.

And that's not counting the ones who were violent instead of molesters.   God knows how many of them there are but I bet it's way more than sexual predators.

As Imma said, you don't know what goes on behind closed doors.

That's why I maintain that children aren't likely to permanently cut off contact for no good reason.   

Am I accusing any specific person who has had a child cut them off of being a sexual predator or violent person or just a mean, controlling, cruel person?   

No, I'm not.  So, whomever you are, don't bother with indignant responses justifying yourself.  Really, save yourself the trouble.   No matter what you say we won't know whether you're a bullshitter or just an unlucky parent with a hateful kid.

What I am saying is that the odds favor one explanation by multiple orders of magnitude and those odds are in favor of the child's actions.

 
« Last Edit: July 03, 2019, 06:52:05 PM by SwordGuy »

AMandM

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1764 on: July 03, 2019, 06:17:32 AM »
Reading Grimsqeaker’s list of who is likely to blame in estrangements, it doesn't  help me figure out what happened in DH’s family. His niece stopped speaking to her parents ten years ago, about the time she graduated from college.
[...]
Before she went to college she was really tied to her mothers apron strings, So this pulling apart is doubly odd.

Could it be that it had to be all or nothing? Maybe the mother couldn't/wouldn't let the daughter be independent, so she had to sever all ties? Just speculating.

jinga nation

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1765 on: July 03, 2019, 08:32:38 AM »
Hmmm, does having a trust avoid probate?
It does, in my state.
Source: got my trust done last month.
« Last Edit: July 03, 2019, 09:02:32 AM by jinga nation »

BeanCounter

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1766 on: July 03, 2019, 08:51:27 AM »
If your careful and smart, you can avoid probate altogether without a trust. Just do all the paperwork and it's possible. You would still need a will, "just in case". But nobody would ever see it unless they contested one of the beneficiaries (for TOD, POD, etc)

jinga nation

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1767 on: July 03, 2019, 09:01:45 AM »
If your careful and smart, you can avoid probate altogether without a trust. Just do all the paperwork and it's possible. You would still need a will, "just in case". But nobody would ever see it unless they contested one of the beneficiaries (for TOD, POD, etc)

Taking chances in this day and age in this litigious society are not my thing. An amount trivial to me may mean a lot for someone else.
We had the trust and wills paperwork drawn up for "free" using the legal plan offered by employer, costs a couple of bucks per month. Had 2 1-hour meetings, a couple of emails with questions. Worth it. We had documented all our assets upfront and made it easy for the lawyer (and ourselves now that we're switching to making the trust secondary beneficiary).

iris lily

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1768 on: July 03, 2019, 09:18:39 AM »
Reading Grimsqeaker’s list of who is likely to blame in estrangements, it doesn't  help me figure out what happened in DH’s family. His niece stopped speaking to her parents ten years ago, about the time she graduated from college.
[...]
Before she went to college she was really tied to her mothers apron strings, So this pulling apart is doubly odd.

Could it be that it had to be all or nothing? Maybe the mother couldn't/wouldn't let the daughter be independent, so she had to sever all ties? Just speculating.

I have thought about that, and it’s possible, but I do think of something more than that.

TVRodriguez

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1769 on: July 03, 2019, 09:48:03 AM »
Hmmm, does having a trust avoid probate?
It does, in my state.
Source: got my trust done last month.

Having a trust may avoid probate if you are careful to retitle your assets in the name of the trust (or rather, in the name of the trustee, as trustee of the trust).  Having a trust by itself will not avoid probate if you do not get around to retitling assets.

Having a trust may not avoid disclosure of financial information to beneficiaries if your jurisdiction's trust code requires disclosure of the trust document and an accounting.

If your careful and smart, you can avoid probate altogether without a trust. Just do all the paperwork and it's possible. You would still need a will, "just in case". But nobody would ever see it unless they contested one of the beneficiaries (for TOD, POD, etc)

Yes, you may be able to avoid probate without a trust.  POD, TOD, named beneficiaries on policies and accounts may eliminate any probate.  IF your beneficiaries predecease you, however, your estate lands right back in probate, and without a will, the laws of your state will decide who gets what.  Ask me how I know.  Never mind, I'll tell you--I've handled estates where the decedent tried to avoid probate using POD accounts, and the benes died before the decedents did, and the decedents didn't get a chance or never bothered to list new POD benes.

TVRodriguez

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1770 on: July 03, 2019, 09:52:36 AM »
Also, just to add to my last comment:  each jurisdiction is different.  I've practiced in several now, and probate practice varies wildly.  In some jurisdictions, probate is no big deal, it's quick and easy, and it's fairly private b/c anyone interested would have to go down to the courthouse and dig through records to find anything.  In other jurisdictions, probate is long, tedious, expensive, and a hassle at best, plus it's all quite public with lots of info available online for anyone good with searching. 

Talk to a local lawyer who practices in the areas of estate planning and probate to find out what best practices are where you live and if you move, talk to a lawyer in your new location to find out if you need to change anything.

artemidorus

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1771 on: July 03, 2019, 10:17:57 AM »
Woman I know (GF) was warned early by her boyfriend that they likely could never get serious because of his grandmother. Naturally, that went out the window and they fell in love, years have passed and marriage is pending. This warning came because of GF's race.

Several years before, BF's sister had brought home a man, who happens to be the same race as GF. Grandma lost it, flipped out in front of the entire family. To this man's face, declared that they were an "inferior race" and that the sister was out of her will for as long as she was dating him. (Grandma's net worth is somewhere in the range of $30M - $50M, enough that she can boss around her grandchildren and expect it to get her somewhere, because even spread across the family, everyone can be a millionaire when she passes. This threat is apparently employed liberally.)

Sister marries this man, relationship with grandma is destroyed, and they don't invite grandma to the wedding. Sister is effectively excommunicated from the family, not because they're racist, but because they want to stay in grandma's good graces and are too afraid to be seen as taking sister's side.

BF now is stuck learning from this lesson. He is cool as a cucumber about being removed from the will, but faces the difficult task of still going through the process of grandma finding out he is dating/will marry someone of that race. He plans to sit grandma down, say he's marrying GF no matter what, and money won't influence that decision. He wants to see if there's a middle ground where he doesn't have to go the rest of his life without speaking to his grandmother. I expect she'll just throw a temper tantrum because her threat of "out of the will" can't influence yet another grandchild, and whatever middle ground he's envisioning will never present itself. 

Based on the stories I'm glancing over in this thread (trying to catch up), maybe he and his sister will glad to be out of the will. Might just save them a lot of added drama when the time comes.

DadJokes

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1772 on: July 03, 2019, 10:34:28 AM »
@artemidorus that sounds like a nightmare, and I am happy that they both are choosing to walk away from $1m+ to be out of that situation. We have cut ties with a friend of my wife's parents, because he has begun to go on more and more racist diatribes as dementia/Alzheimer's has set in. Wife's parents have also drastically reduced their interactions with him. The person I feel most sorry for is his wife, who has no choice but to put up with it. She told my MIL that they were too broke to get divorced.

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1773 on: July 03, 2019, 10:47:49 AM »
Reading Grimsqeaker’s list of who is likely to blame in estrangements, it doesn't  help me figure out what happened in DH’s family. His niece stopped speaking to her parents ten years ago, about the time she graduated from college.
[...]
Before she went to college she was really tied to her mothers apron strings, So this pulling apart is doubly odd.

Could it be that it had to be all or nothing? Maybe the mother couldn't/wouldn't let the daughter be independent, so she had to sever all ties? Just speculating.

I have thought about that, and it’s possible, but I do think of something more than that.

Estrangement is what happens when at least one half of the estranged pair believes that the maximum safe level of contact is zero. Whether the belief has a basis in fact-- whether the person who insists on and then enforces zero contact-- depends a lot on how both sides of the estranged pair handle boundaries.

A lot of families don't do boundaries well, and kids who grow up in those families generally end up thinking that their only available options for relationships are "close and unhealthy" or "zero". In reality there's plenty of spots in between that can sometimes be viable. There are plenty of families that allow one or more people to bulldoze over children's boundaries without ever crossing the line into the kind of abuse that gets legal authorities involved.

partgypsy

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1774 on: July 03, 2019, 11:11:46 AM »
My sister used to work at a (nice) retirement home. And there were some people who were estranged from their kids. Sometimes she said you could tell why from their personalities why (they were a pill to everyone), other times, you couldn't. But what she said was far more common was kids who weren't estranged but just didn't have time for the parent(s) anymore. They would get a call on their birthday, maybe come by once a year around christmas, but other than that their kids didn't visit. Some of the kids lived nearby (within an hour). Of course doesn't know everything but according to my sister some of these people were really sweet, and she thought it was so sad they seemed forgotten by their children. If anything I think my sister got a little over-involved while she was dining room manager there, because she loved to schedule and plan various events and activities during the holidays and hang out with them and let them talk and reminisce.   
« Last Edit: July 03, 2019, 11:34:41 AM by partgypsy »

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1775 on: July 03, 2019, 11:41:54 AM »
artemidorus,

That stuff happened in my family back in the 60s and 70s, just with less money on the line. In a serendipitous turn of events the least racist people lived the longest and through a chain of inheritance a real amount of that money did eventually end up in the mixed race family that was originally disowned.

partgypsy

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1776 on: July 03, 2019, 07:28:05 PM »
My Dad died very suddenly 30 years ago. My older sister and her husband lived nearby and drove Mom around to the mortuary and cemetery to make the arrangements while I stayed home to field the phone. (I was 20 and in college.)
When they returned home, sister and BIL caught me alone and asked, "Does Mom have any money?"
I knew my parents frugal ways as well as I knew their spendthrift ways so I answered evasively, "I don't know. Why?"
"Well, you know, Mom's so upset that we've paid for everything today but we don't know if Mom has any money to pay us back."
"I don't know. You'll have to ask her."

Once they left, I told Mom about the exchange. She silently got up and brought back her checkbook, where she--as always--had meticulously recorded every expense that she had paid that day.
I have no idea what they thought they might get or why.

They moved out of state several years later and didn't bother to visit Mom for 16 years. When she finally did visit, my sister took the opportunity to ask my Mom who was going to get the house. Mom told her that she was leaving it to me since I was the only one who had been there for her. Sister stormed out of the house and didn't return, not even for Mom's funeral last year.

Mom left her and my brother $25K each. She told me many times, "They don't deserve anything, but if I don't give them something they'll never leave you alone."

Right after the cashier's check cleared, BIL posted a picture of his shiny new pickup on his Facebook page.

She knew them very well indeed.
Ugh.

Kitsune

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1777 on: July 04, 2019, 09:08:42 AM »
... they were too broke to get divorced.

I have heard that from significantly younger people (thinking of one specific friend who said that 8 years ago - they're still together, he's still an inconsiderate ass, she's still miserable...). And that's one of the main reasons I want to always have a decent cushion and options.

For the record: I love my husband, we have a great relationship, I have every intention of being with him forever and plan for that, and I believe he feels the same way, based on both words and actions. BUT if that ceases to be the case and we can't fix it... Well. In short: staying with/sleeping with someone you don't like because you can't afford to leave is likely less profitable than an hourly rate. Don't be in that situation. Options. OPTIONS.

iris lily

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1778 on: July 04, 2019, 09:36:26 AM »
Reading Grimsqeaker’s list of who is likely to blame in estrangements, it doesn't  help me figure out what happened in DH’s family. His niece stopped speaking to her parents ten years ago, about the time she graduated from college.
[...]
Before she went to college she was really tied to her mothers apron strings, So this pulling apart is doubly odd.

Could it be that it had to be all or nothing? Maybe the mother couldn't/wouldn't let the daughter be independent, so she had to sever all ties? Just speculating.

I have thought about that, and it’s possible, but I do think of something more than that.

Estrangement is what happens when at least one half of the estranged pair believes that the maximum safe level of contact is zero. Whether the belief has a basis in fact-- whether the person who insists on and then enforces zero contact-- depends a lot on how both sides of the estranged pair handle boundaries.

A lot of families don't do boundaries well, and kids who grow up in those families generally end up thinking that their only available options for relationships are "close and unhealthy" or "zero". In reality there's plenty of spots in between that can sometimes be viable. There are plenty of families that allow one or more people to bulldoze over children's boundaries without ever crossing the line into the kind of abuse that gets legal authorities involved.

 I think you are probably on the right track about my niece’s situation.

Her parents are strong personalities. Probably they did not respect her boundaries. Probably she thought at the time when she was only 21 years old that her only option was to pull out of that relationship entirely.

Probably now 10 years later in her early 30s she can negotiate boundaries better, but after 10 years of not speaking to her parents it is now habit. And  there’s probably some embarrassment and unsureness on her part as to how to step back into relationship p-lite with them.  Her mom is not against speaking to her and her mom opens the door occasionally with a card to her.

It is funny that DH just spent a few days with his family and he finds his sister, the mother of said niece, self centered and annoying. I have asked him “have you ever spoken about your annoyance with your niece, I’ll bet she would be somewhat gratified to know that!” But he has not.

We do have a relationship with niece probably more so than DH’s  other siblings.

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1779 on: July 06, 2019, 06:53:13 AM »
My sister used to work at a (nice) retirement home. And there were some people who were estranged from their kids. Sometimes she said you could tell why from their personalities why (they were a pill to everyone), other times, you couldn't. But what she said was far more common was kids who weren't estranged but just didn't have time for the parent(s) anymore. They would get a call on their birthday, maybe come by once a year around christmas, but other than that their kids didn't visit. Some of the kids lived nearby (within an hour). Of course doesn't know everything but according to my sister some of these people were really sweet, and she thought it was so sad they seemed forgotten by their children. If anything I think my sister got a little over-involved while she was dining room manager there, because she loved to schedule and plan various events and activities during the holidays and hang out with them and let them talk and reminisce.

Maybe those people were never close to their kids, even when they were still young? I can imagine you're not suddenly going to have a close relationship with someone just because they're now old.

My mother and siblings are not bad people but we're not super close. I will always visit my mother and probably a bit more than now if she was old and lonely in a care home somewhere, but I can't imagine I would suddenly start visiting her 3 times a week just because she was old now.

I regret not being close to anyone in my family but I guess that's the way it's going to stay. I'm actively estranged from my father, but I'm in touch with all my siblings and my mother. I visit my mother once every two months, she visits me once a year (she moved away to start a new life after the kids left home).  We call every 2 weeks oe so and she'll tell me everything about her life and doesn't remember about mine. I see my siblings a few times a year when I happen to be in their town. We get together at Christmas because we want to have a relationship with each other, but we just sit around the table having awkward silences. I know many of my friends have similar relationships with their family, I imagine many of those people in that care home have families like this too.

There's one sibling I'm more close to than anyone in my family but we're still not extremely close. We talk more about personal things but we sometimes still don't speak in months. It is what it is and happy families like on TV are rare.

ender

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1780 on: July 06, 2019, 07:08:43 AM »
The cutting-off behavior is extremely common in families where there's addiction or abuse. In those families, people who behave badly are always entitled to the relationship and/or resources they want from the people they mistreat, no matter what. If you want to participate in family activities, you're required to (a) tolerate abuse, (b) not talk about it, and (c) help protect the person who's continuing to dish it out. Only the problem person's experience matters, and the rest of the family is so used to tiptoeing around the most dramatic and destructive individual that if someone on the receiving end of bad behavior dares to speak up or to protect himself/herself, that person is punished by being excluded from the family.

The other very common behavior is for the person who wants to live an abuse-free life to be the one to build some distance into the relationship. If the rest of the family tries to pressure the escapee to kowtow and to submit to more abuse, it's generally because every single person applying the pressure is in full flying monkey mode. Many of them like to feel like they are accomplishing something extremely good by reeling the escaped punching bag back in so that the toxic or abusive person can have another go. Others are tired of wiping the butt of whoever is screwing up, and realize that if they can bulldoze over the escapee's boundaries they can substitute the human escapee to be used as human toilet paper.

A third very common behavior is for someone to go into a snit and cut off friends or family members as a manipulation tool: "if you don't do this for me, or if you don't give me that, then you'll never see me again." My daughter was always cutting off friends or relatives to punish them for asserting their own boundaries. When she did it to me at age 18, I happily gave her all of her belongings and helped her move out, but her resolve to have nothing to do with me evaporated once she wanted money. There are lots of people who behave this way: when they well runs dry and they can't take anything more from you, or if you need something from them or are politely holding them accountable for their behavior, they find a reason to end contact until there's something else they want.

From the outside looking in, it can be extremely hard to tell whether the person ending the contact is the abusive or manipulative person. My general rule is to look at the person doing the cutting off. Do they have *any* old friends, family members, or community members with whom they are consistently in contact? If the answer is no, that person is likely to be the problem. Likewise, are they basically functioning or are they dependent on others? If they're dependent on others and are not consistently self-supporting, the isolated person has probably burned through a lot of other supporters and do-gooders before they got to you. There are bound to be mutual friends and acquaintances; asking around to see whether a person whose opinion and character you trust has been burned by that individual is often a good way to tell whether you should invite the exiled individual into your life.

Adding to this, one thing most people do is assume everyone else in the world is roughly similar to them in pretty much all regards socially. If you are "normal" you assume that some people are nicer than average and some people are a bit quirky/difficult, but the idea that someone/family could be to toxic enough to justify fully cutting out from the family is normally not immediately believable. There are many reasons why it may be "worth it" to cut someone from your life. But those reasons will be very difficult for people in "normal" social situations to understand.

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1781 on: July 06, 2019, 03:17:32 PM »
No drama at all from the other heir--my sibling. The hardest part has been transferring some rather small yearly royalty/commission earnings.  I have resolved to not overly complicate my investments so that it is not time-consuming for my children. The hard part about an inheritance is that every time I tacked the paperwork, it brought back the grief of losing my parents.  I am very close to my children, and my death will be very very difficult for them. I do not want to add to their sorrow by making their inheritance more difficult than it needs to be.

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1782 on: July 07, 2019, 09:01:55 AM »
re identifying the mean person:

Growing up and into adulthood I have had significant problems with my aunt B, she can be quite nice and is materially generous and outgoing with many long term friends.  My mom did not see issues I had with B, I tried verbalizing them and had assumed it was all obvious but talking with my mom now she did not see it (mom feels really bad about it all).  My other aunt J did thankfully see the stuff with B. 

Before about a year ago when all this came to a head and I formally cut B out of my life, an outsider looking into the situation might not have understood the history of why I would not choose to visit B.  The outsider might have concluded I was just being lazy or uninterested in maintaining family connections.  People are complex imperfect beings and they often misinterpret communications. 

merula

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1783 on: July 08, 2019, 07:45:50 AM »
Late to the party, but here's one point of anecdata about a child who cut off her parents for no real reason:

I met this friend (call her Anna) in college. Nice enough person, ended up dating my then-bf's roommate, so we all spent a lot of time together. She was one of those people who loved to be "quirky", and she had a tendency for the dramatic, but not to any extreme extent.

Anna would always complain about her parents, and say that XYZ thing that they did was all because of being "overbearing" older, adoptive parents. But the stuff she would say was stuff like, "they called me to check in, like they do EVERY weekend". Stuff my parents, who were neither older nor adoptive, did all the time. Or, like "I was home for Christmas and they wanted me to wake up to go out for breakfast with them!". Yeah, admittedly annoying when you're used to a college sleep schedule, but not unexpected.

We've drifted apart since college, but we're still FB friends, and Anne occasionally posts stuff like "FYI, I'm not in touch with my parents, so if they contact you asking if I'm OK, don't tell them anything." While it's true that you can never know what goes on in another family, given her flair for the dramatic, if there was something else going on like abuse, I have no doubt at all she would've shared it with me.

I don't think Anne herself has any severe personality issues; I think she's just convinced herself that her parents are bad parents and proceeds accordingly.

A Fella from Stella

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1784 on: July 08, 2019, 10:32:31 AM »
Late to the party, but here's one point of anecdata about a child who cut off her parents for no real reason:

I met this friend (call her Anna) in college. Nice enough person, ended up dating my then-bf's roommate, so we all spent a lot of time together. She was one of those people who loved to be "quirky", and she had a tendency for the dramatic, but not to any extreme extent.

Anna would always complain about her parents, and say that XYZ thing that they did was all because of being "overbearing" older, adoptive parents. But the stuff she would say was stuff like, "they called me to check in, like they do EVERY weekend". Stuff my parents, who were neither older nor adoptive, did all the time. Or, like "I was home for Christmas and they wanted me to wake up to go out for breakfast with them!". Yeah, admittedly annoying when you're used to a college sleep schedule, but not unexpected.

We've drifted apart since college, but we're still FB friends, and Anne occasionally posts stuff like "FYI, I'm not in touch with my parents, so if they contact you asking if I'm OK, don't tell them anything." While it's true that you can never know what goes on in another family, given her flair for the dramatic, if there was something else going on like abuse, I have no doubt at all she would've shared it with me.

I don't think Anne herself has any severe personality issues; I think she's just convinced herself that her parents are bad parents and proceeds accordingly.

Geez, talk about wanting attention. Hey 740 FB friends, I don't talk to my parents, so if they reach out to you, tell them nothing.

BeanCounter

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1785 on: July 08, 2019, 10:46:23 AM »
Late to the party, but here's one point of anecdata about a child who cut off her parents for no real reason:

I met this friend (call her Anna) in college. Nice enough person, ended up dating my then-bf's roommate, so we all spent a lot of time together. She was one of those people who loved to be "quirky", and she had a tendency for the dramatic, but not to any extreme extent.

Anna would always complain about her parents, and say that XYZ thing that they did was all because of being "overbearing" older, adoptive parents. But the stuff she would say was stuff like, "they called me to check in, like they do EVERY weekend". Stuff my parents, who were neither older nor adoptive, did all the time. Or, like "I was home for Christmas and they wanted me to wake up to go out for breakfast with them!". Yeah, admittedly annoying when you're used to a college sleep schedule, but not unexpected.

We've drifted apart since college, but we're still FB friends, and Anne occasionally posts stuff like "FYI, I'm not in touch with my parents, so if they contact you asking if I'm OK, don't tell them anything." While it's true that you can never know what goes on in another family, given her flair for the dramatic, if there was something else going on like abuse, I have no doubt at all she would've shared it with me.

I don't think Anne herself has any severe personality issues; I think she's just convinced herself that her parents are bad parents and proceeds accordingly.

Geez, talk about wanting attention. Hey 740 FB friends, I don't talk to my parents, so if they reach out to you, tell them nothing.

Yeah. In my non clinical opinion, it actually screams personality disorder.
I've always wondered what causes people to air all their dirty laundry on FB. Weird.

merula

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1786 on: July 08, 2019, 12:09:08 PM »
Geez, talk about wanting attention. Hey 740 FB friends, I don't talk to my parents, so if they reach out to you, tell them nothing.

Yeah. In my non clinical opinion, it actually screams personality disorder.
I've always wondered what causes people to air all their dirty laundry on FB. Weird.

You know, it's probably a bigger comment on the state of the world that what seems to me to be normal social media behavior also seems like a personality disorder.

It's only happened a handful of times; her posts outside of that are generally pretty benign. (Event photos, relationship appreciation, food, etc.)

Sibley

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1787 on: July 08, 2019, 12:12:06 PM »
Geez, talk about wanting attention. Hey 740 FB friends, I don't talk to my parents, so if they reach out to you, tell them nothing.

Yeah. In my non clinical opinion, it actually screams personality disorder.
I've always wondered what causes people to air all their dirty laundry on FB. Weird.

You know, it's probably a bigger comment on the state of the world that what seems to me to be normal social media behavior also seems like a personality disorder.

It's only happened a handful of times; her posts outside of that are generally pretty benign. (Event photos, relationship appreciation, food, etc.)

Her actions of complaining about what seems to be normal, loving parenting is what seems off to me. Then her cutting them off, regardless of how open she is about it on FB - I'd guess there's something going on with her. Given she's adopted, she could have issues around that.

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1788 on: July 08, 2019, 02:59:12 PM »
re identifying the mean person:

Growing up and into adulthood I have had significant problems with my aunt B, she can be quite nice and is materially generous and outgoing with many long term friends.  My mom did not see issues I had with B, I tried verbalizing them and had assumed it was all obvious but talking with my mom now she did not see it (mom feels really bad about it all).  My other aunt J did thankfully see the stuff with B. 

Before about a year ago when all this came to a head and I formally cut B out of my life, an outsider looking into the situation might not have understood the history of why I would not choose to visit B.  The outsider might have concluded I was just being lazy or uninterested in maintaining family connections.  People are complex imperfect beings and they often misinterpret communications.
Sometimes, people just want out and want to take the high road. I have a good friend who was in a very long term relationship with a man who was divorced and had two kids.  They lived together for awhile, they were probably together for a decade?  She got used to being a family, having the boys on weekends with him, etc.  So, he was kind of self-centered, childish guy.  In the end, things didn't work out because he was kind of a jerk and she got sick of it.  Also, comments like "well, you want to have kids, and I don't want any more.  So if you leave me and have a kid, then we'll just end up back together.  But I don't want to raise someone else's kid."  (Which was all sorts of crazy.)

Well,  they had a lot of mutual friends, and she took the high road when it ended, and refused to bad mouth him for all the things he'd done.   So he tells all the friends that she's breaking up for no good reason.  Thus, she's the bad guy.  (Nevermind that "I don't want to be with him anymore" is a FINE reason.

Dollar Slice

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1789 on: July 08, 2019, 04:09:54 PM »
Sometimes, people just want out and want to take the high road. I have a good friend who was in a very long term relationship with a man who was divorced and had two kids.  They lived together for awhile, they were probably together for a decade?  She got used to being a family, having the boys on weekends with him, etc.  So, he was kind of self-centered, childish guy.  In the end, things didn't work out because he was kind of a jerk and she got sick of it.  Also, comments like "well, you want to have kids, and I don't want any more.  So if you leave me and have a kid, then we'll just end up back together.  But I don't want to raise someone else's kid."  (Which was all sorts of crazy.)

Well,  they had a lot of mutual friends, and she took the high road when it ended, and refused to bad mouth him for all the things he'd done.   So he tells all the friends that she's breaking up for no good reason.  Thus, she's the bad guy.  (Nevermind that "I don't want to be with him anymore" is a FINE reason.

Wow, a close friend of mine went through almost this exact scenario! Fewer years, but very similar with helping raise his kids in part-time custody from a previous marriage, him being kind of a jerk to her, etc. I think he was one of those men who think showering a woman with money and gifts and luxury gets you out of having to be a decent person.

Difference being, they worked at the same company and he had been there longer and all their co-workers kept telling her she should give him another chance or go to couples counseling after she broke up with him. He got really creepy/weird about it. She ended up quitting her job to get away from it all.

Dicey

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1790 on: July 09, 2019, 12:06:52 AM »
Sometimes, people just want out and want to take the high road. I have a good friend who was in a very long term relationship with a man who was divorced and had two kids.  They lived together for awhile, they were probably together for a decade?  She got used to being a family, having the boys on weekends with him, etc.  So, he was kind of self-centered, childish guy.  In the end, things didn't work out because he was kind of a jerk and she got sick of it.  Also, comments like "well, you want to have kids, and I don't want any more.  So if you leave me and have a kid, then we'll just end up back together.  But I don't want to raise someone else's kid."  (Which was all sorts of crazy.)

Well,  they had a lot of mutual friends, and she took the high road when it ended, and refused to bad mouth him for all the things he'd done.   So he tells all the friends that she's breaking up for no good reason.  Thus, she's the bad guy.  (Nevermind that "I don't want to be with him anymore" is a FINE reason.

Wow, a close friend of mine went through almost this exact scenario! Fewer years, but very similar with helping raise his kids in part-time custody from a previous marriage, him being kind of a jerk to her, etc. I think he was one of those men who think showering a woman with money and gifts and luxury gets you out of having to be a decent person.

Difference being, they worked at the same company and he had been there longer and all their co-workers kept telling her she should give him another chance or go to couples counseling after she broke up with him. He got really creepy/weird about it. She ended up quitting her job to get away from it all.
I hope She found a better job and a better dude.

Random musing: the first thing I wonder about in these estranged-for-no-obvious reason cases is abuse, typically, but not exclusively, sexual.

RetiredAt63

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1791 on: July 09, 2019, 08:19:45 AM »
Random musing: the first thing I wonder about in these estranged-for-no-obvious reason cases is abuse, typically, but not exclusively, sexual.

Not necessarily.  I took the high road when I left Ex, just told people we had grown apart and had different goals.  Which was true. But underneath, it wasn't any one big thing, just a lot of little things that added up to "get out".  The book "Too good to leave, too bad to stay" was a real eye-opener for me.

BTW, he didn't want anyone (well mainly his friends) to know I had left him, and when people asked where I was he told them a major lie. Which was an interesting character reveal.

Dicey

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1792 on: July 09, 2019, 10:03:11 AM »
Random musing: the first thing I wonder about in these estranged-for-no-obvious reason cases is abuse, typically, but not exclusively, sexual.

Not necessarily.  I took the high road when I left Ex, just told people we had grown apart and had different goals.  Which was true. But underneath, it wasn't any one big thing, just a lot of little things that added up to "get out".  The book "Too good to leave, too bad to stay" was a real eye-opener for me.

BTW, he didn't want anyone (well mainly his friends) to know I had left him, and when people asked where I was he told them a major lie. Which was an interesting character reveal.
I'm not disagreeing, just clarifying. Earlier, the discussion was more on children who ghost their parents. I wasn't thinking about partner splits. Sorry your ex did such a jerky thing, but I suppose it might have been a small comfort, underscoring that you made the best decision for yourself.

mm1970

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1793 on: July 09, 2019, 10:44:06 AM »
Sometimes, people just want out and want to take the high road. I have a good friend who was in a very long term relationship with a man who was divorced and had two kids.  They lived together for awhile, they were probably together for a decade?  She got used to being a family, having the boys on weekends with him, etc.  So, he was kind of self-centered, childish guy.  In the end, things didn't work out because he was kind of a jerk and she got sick of it.  Also, comments like "well, you want to have kids, and I don't want any more.  So if you leave me and have a kid, then we'll just end up back together.  But I don't want to raise someone else's kid."  (Which was all sorts of crazy.)

Well,  they had a lot of mutual friends, and she took the high road when it ended, and refused to bad mouth him for all the things he'd done.   So he tells all the friends that she's breaking up for no good reason.  Thus, she's the bad guy.  (Nevermind that "I don't want to be with him anymore" is a FINE reason.

Wow, a close friend of mine went through almost this exact scenario! Fewer years, but very similar with helping raise his kids in part-time custody from a previous marriage, him being kind of a jerk to her, etc. I think he was one of those men who think showering a woman with money and gifts and luxury gets you out of having to be a decent person.

Difference being, they worked at the same company and he had been there longer and all their co-workers kept telling her she should give him another chance or go to couples counseling after she broke up with him. He got really creepy/weird about it. She ended up quitting her job to get away from it all.
Yeah, they had a LOT of mutual friends, and it got really awkward.  All the friends telling her to give him another chance and all, when they weren't privy to the details.

RetiredAt63

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1794 on: July 09, 2019, 03:19:13 PM »
Random musing: the first thing I wonder about in these estranged-for-no-obvious reason cases is abuse, typically, but not exclusively, sexual.

Not necessarily.  I took the high road when I left Ex, just told people we had grown apart and had different goals.  Which was true. But underneath, it wasn't any one big thing, just a lot of little things that added up to "get out".  The book "Too good to leave, too bad to stay" was a real eye-opener for me.

BTW, he didn't want anyone (well mainly his friends) to know I had left him, and when people asked where I was he told them a major lie. Which was an interesting character reveal.
I'm not disagreeing, just clarifying. Earlier, the discussion was more on children who ghost their parents. I wasn't thinking about partner splits. Sorry your ex did such a jerky thing, but I suppose it might have been a small comfort, underscoring that you made the best decision for yourself.

We had sort of drifted away from parent/child.  But it is amazing how much mental abuse can be hidden in a relationship (parent/child/couples) until a person gets away from the situation and things become clearer.  I can certainly see how a child could assume that things in his/her family were normal until they got out into the world more and saw how other families work. 

Reading Captain Awkward has been a real education for me.

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1795 on: July 09, 2019, 07:25:02 PM »
We had sort of drifted away from parent/child.  But it is amazing how much mental abuse can be hidden in a relationship (parent/child/couples) until a person gets away from the situation and things become clearer.  I can certainly see how a child could assume that things in his/her family were normal until they got out into the world more and saw how other families work. 

Reading Captain Awkward has been a real education for me.

Go to reddit, search for JustNoTalk. Raised by narcissists is another one.  (I used to recommend JustNoMIL and the related subs, but there's some issues with the mod team there and am not comfortable sending anyone there anymore.)

Freedomin5

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1796 on: July 15, 2019, 07:09:48 AM »
Not really a drama...yet, but it does make one want to facepalm....

DH is the most successful of his siblings (He did marry a Mustachian after all:P). We are well on our way to FIRE, have a stable marriage, stable careers, intact family. His other two siblings live in housing owned by their parents. One has a mental illness and hasn’t worked in the past...15 years or so? Single parent. History of substance abuse.

DH recently found out that he is probably going to get very little or nothing from his parents because “he doesn’t need the money”. They will probably leave it all to the sibling with a severe mental illness. As a lump sum. To do with as they want.

When we first got married, DH told me his parents would split their assets equally. I told him not to count on it. They were going to think that he married into money and wouldn’t need their money anymore. My family is not really rich; we are finance people though and my parents have been quite wise with their money so we are comfortable.

DH and I aren’t surprised by this turn of events, as DH and I had already planned on investing his portion to support his sibling if it had been split three ways. Now we are rethinking our strategy as we will likely need to support the sibling after they blow through all the money. We will just have to build the cost of covering their basic living expenses into our FIRE budget. And be prepared that a portion of our time in FIRE will be helping them navigate the different government systems and programs.

We’re not upset or anything. It’s just interesting to read of smart people deciding NOT to leave everything to the child with mental illness who is unable of taking responsibility for managing their own life....and contrasting it to our current experience.

DadJokes

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1797 on: July 15, 2019, 07:14:11 AM »
Not really a drama...yet, but it does make one want to facepalm....

DH is the most successful of his siblings (He did marry a Mustachian after all:P). We are well on our way to FIRE, have a stable marriage, stable careers, intact family. His other two siblings live in housing owned by their parents. One has a mental illness and hasn’t worked in the past...15 years or so? Single parent. History of substance abuse.

DH recently found out that he is probably going to get very little or nothing from his parents because “he doesn’t need the money”. They will probably leave it all to the sibling with a severe mental illness. As a lump sum. To do with as they want.

When we first got married, DH told me his parents would split their assets equally. I told him not to count on it. They were going to think that he married into money and wouldn’t need their money anymore. My family is not really rich; we are finance people though and my parents have been quite wise with their money so we are comfortable.

DH and I aren’t surprised by this turn of events, as DH and I had already planned on investing his portion to support his sibling if it had been split three ways. Now we are rethinking our strategy as we will likely need to support the sibling after they blow through all the money. We will just have to build the cost of covering their basic living expenses into our FIRE budget. And be prepared that a portion of our time in FIRE will be helping them navigate the different government systems and programs.

We’re not upset or anything. It’s just interesting to read of smart people deciding NOT to leave everything to the child with mental illness who is unable of taking responsibility for managing their own life....and contrasting it to our current experience.

Maybe he can convince the parents to set up a special needs trust for the sibling instead. The sibling still gets the benefit of the money, but can't just blow through it all.

Sugaree

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1798 on: July 15, 2019, 07:20:32 AM »
Not really a drama...yet, but it does make one want to facepalm....

DH is the most successful of his siblings (He did marry a Mustachian after all:P). We are well on our way to FIRE, have a stable marriage, stable careers, intact family. His other two siblings live in housing owned by their parents. One has a mental illness and hasn’t worked in the past...15 years or so? Single parent. History of substance abuse.

DH recently found out that he is probably going to get very little or nothing from his parents because “he doesn’t need the money”. They will probably leave it all to the sibling with a severe mental illness. As a lump sum. To do with as they want.

When we first got married, DH told me his parents would split their assets equally. I told him not to count on it. They were going to think that he married into money and wouldn’t need their money anymore. My family is not really rich; we are finance people though and my parents have been quite wise with their money so we are comfortable.

DH and I aren’t surprised by this turn of events, as DH and I had already planned on investing his portion to support his sibling if it had been split three ways. Now we are rethinking our strategy as we will likely need to support the sibling after they blow through all the money. We will just have to build the cost of covering their basic living expenses into our FIRE budget. And be prepared that a portion of our time in FIRE will be helping them navigate the different government systems and programs.

We’re not upset or anything. It’s just interesting to read of smart people deciding NOT to leave everything to the child with mental illness who is unable of taking responsibility for managing their own life....and contrasting it to our current experience.


Is there any particular reason that you have to support the sibling?  I've made it perfectly clear to DH that I will not be supporting his brother.  His parents still say that they will split everything equally, but I have my doubts that will ever happen.  They've handed over money to BIL in large chunks more than once (the latest request was for $40k and they tried to sell a house that was supposed to be DH's to do so) and have been paying his rent for at least 5 years now.  I suspect that there won't be much left to split and even if there was, it will go to BIL because "he needs it more."   I get that the situation is different because BIL doesn't have a severe MI, but at some point you have to save yourself before you save others.

Freedomin5

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #1799 on: July 15, 2019, 07:38:22 AM »
Not really a drama...yet, but it does make one want to facepalm....

DH is the most successful of his siblings (He did marry a Mustachian after all:P). We are well on our way to FIRE, have a stable marriage, stable careers, intact family. His other two siblings live in housing owned by their parents. One has a mental illness and hasn’t worked in the past...15 years or so? Single parent. History of substance abuse.

DH recently found out that he is probably going to get very little or nothing from his parents because “he doesn’t need the money”. They will probably leave it all to the sibling with a severe mental illness. As a lump sum. To do with as they want.

When we first got married, DH told me his parents would split their assets equally. I told him not to count on it. They were going to think that he married into money and wouldn’t need their money anymore. My family is not really rich; we are finance people though and my parents have been quite wise with their money so we are comfortable.

DH and I aren’t surprised by this turn of events, as DH and I had already planned on investing his portion to support his sibling if it had been split three ways. Now we are rethinking our strategy as we will likely need to support the sibling after they blow through all the money. We will just have to build the cost of covering their basic living expenses into our FIRE budget. And be prepared that a portion of our time in FIRE will be helping them navigate the different government systems and programs.

We’re not upset or anything. It’s just interesting to read of smart people deciding NOT to leave everything to the child with mental illness who is unable of taking responsibility for managing their own life....and contrasting it to our current experience.

Maybe he can convince the parents to set up a special needs trust for the sibling instead. The sibling still gets the benefit of the money, but can't just blow through it all.

Why yes, we did suggest that. Trusts are apparently “too good to be true” and you can’t trust that the person who administers the trust won’t steal all your money.

We also suggested purchasing an annuity with sibling as the beneficiary. But no, that is too good to be true! What company would keep paying until the beneficiary dies?! Apparently, annuities are scams.