Author Topic: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.  (Read 1435072 times)

firelight

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #800 on: December 12, 2016, 12:23:09 PM »
This thread has made me very sure that if anyone ever leaves me anything other then money jointly, if we can't amicably work out what to do with it within six months, I will simply relinquish all claim to it. Not worth it.
We have an inheritance story brewing (old grand dad not ready to split property between kids (that was bequeathed to them by their grand parents), one of the kids (! In their late 60s) trying to cheat the other kid out of their share and younger generation from both sides trying to get the best part of the pie). The problem is compounded by the fact that the property in question is worth millions and some of the younger generation (kid trying to cheat and their progeny) are financially dependent on the cash flow from the property. And the kid being cheated and their progeny don't want to fight too hard but want the others to settle fairly.

I've got popcorn popping!!

Shelivesthedream, exactly my sentiments! But in the above story, it's harder to let go because of the value of the property (think a set of real estate and profitable buildings in Manhattan). Thankfully it's not my direct problem (will help my kids though) but also makes it harder because it brings up the question should I fight for my kids since they are < 3 years old and would feel later on that mom should've fought for what was given to us. Makes the decision to let go harder when it's not your own stake.

Our FIRE plans are independent of this shitstorm since we firmly believe our FIRE shouldn't include any inheritance.
« Last Edit: December 12, 2016, 12:28:31 PM by firelight »

talltexan

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #801 on: December 13, 2016, 10:01:13 AM »
My first reaction was that part of the appeal of FIRE is having achieved it yourself.

But as I started to type this comment, it occurred to me that there are so many stories of horrible Scion squandering their inheritances, that I cannot judge harshly someone who used an inheritance to create a modest lifestyle freed from the tyrrannies of relentless employment.

merula

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #802 on: December 13, 2016, 10:18:26 AM »
so many stories of horrible Scion squandering their inheritances

Anyone else picturing a boxy Toyota blowing through a trust fund?

dandarc

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #803 on: December 13, 2016, 10:33:51 AM »
so many stories of horrible Scion squandering their inheritances

Anyone else picturing a boxy Toyota blowing through a trust fund?
Now I've got an image of a car blowing through a wall of cash like the Kool-aid man stuck in my head.

LeRainDrop

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #804 on: December 13, 2016, 07:31:50 PM »
so many stories of horrible Scion squandering their inheritances

Anyone else picturing a boxy Toyota blowing through a trust fund?
Now I've got an image of a car blowing through a wall of cash like the Kool-aid man stuck in my head.

An honest-to-goodness LOL from me!

gimp

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #805 on: December 13, 2016, 07:45:15 PM »
Now I've got an image of a car blowing through a wall of cash like the Kool-aid man stuck in my head.

Story of my car enthusiast life.

TheGrimSqueaker

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #806 on: December 14, 2016, 10:03:50 AM »
Now I've got an image of a car blowing through a wall of cash like the Kool-aid man stuck in my head.

Story of my car enthusiast life.

I happen to drive an orange Scion, dubbed "the Toaster" by one of my teammates, which I could actually dress up as the Kool-Aid man since it's about the right color.

Playing with Fire UK

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #807 on: December 15, 2016, 01:43:39 AM »
Now I've got an image of a car blowing through a wall of cash like the Kool-aid man stuck in my head.
Story of my car enthusiast life.
I happen to drive an orange Scion, dubbed "the Toaster" by one of my teammates, which I could actually dress up as the Kool-Aid man since it's about the right color.

Please do this. Even with Photoshop.

zephyr911

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #808 on: December 15, 2016, 01:27:16 PM »
My first reaction was that part of the appeal of FIRE is having achieved it yourself.

But as I started to type this comment, it occurred to me that there are so many stories of horrible Scion squandering their inheritances, that I cannot judge harshly someone who used an inheritance to create a modest lifestyle freed from the tyrrannies of relentless employment.
Short of "not stealing it", etc, I don't think I will derive any particular extra pleasure from the means of FIRE. DW did inherit five figures unexpectedly a couple of years ago, and we invested the shit out of it, probably pushing us up a couple of years. I don't think it takes anything away from the fun we're about to have.

MgoSam

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #809 on: December 15, 2016, 01:39:51 PM »
My first reaction was that part of the appeal of FIRE is having achieved it yourself.

But as I started to type this comment, it occurred to me that there are so many stories of horrible Scion squandering their inheritances, that I cannot judge harshly someone who used an inheritance to create a modest lifestyle freed from the tyrrannies of relentless employment.
Short of "not stealing it", etc, I don't think I will derive any particular extra pleasure from the means of FIRE. DW did inherit five figures unexpectedly a couple of years ago, and we invested the shit out of it, probably pushing us up a couple of years. I don't think it takes anything away from the fun we're about to have.

I'm perfectly willing to inherit my way to FIRE. I won't even losing any sleep about not "earning it," as the way I see it, I would be lucky to inherit the money but 99% of people would blow such a windfall.

merula

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #810 on: December 15, 2016, 03:41:33 PM »
Short of "not stealing it", etc, I don't think I will derive any particular extra pleasure from the means of FIRE. DW did inherit five figures unexpectedly a couple of years ago, and we invested the shit out of it, probably pushing us up a couple of years. I don't think it takes anything away from the fun we're about to have.

I'm 100% with you. "Appreciation" is about the person, not the money.

For example, I have two different families of cousins who paid their own ways through college, while my parents paid my tuition and my siblings'. My parents were told by their siblings(in-law) that they were spoiling us and we wouldn't appreciate it and we'd waste our time.

We kids are all now 25-35. Me and my siblings all graduated in 4 years and are in successful careers at least somewhat related to our fields of study. Of the seven cousins, two did some college but didn't graduate. Of the other five, only one got out in 4 years. And only one (not the same one who graduated on time) is doing a job requiring a college degree.

Looking back, I think my siblings and I are the way we are because our parents taught us good resource management. Those skills are what allowed them to pay our tuition in the first place, and we didn't need to pay our own ways to learn that lesson.

I don't think any of those aunts/uncles have the discipline to save for their children's education, so they weren't able to teach their kids resource management, so the kids can't manage their resources.

The boiling water that softens the potato hardens the egg. It's not your circumstances but what you're made of.

Villanelle

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #811 on: December 15, 2016, 10:25:34 PM »
I might feel more pride in FIRE-ing without an inheritance (which is almost certainly what will happen, and what I hope does happen because we plan to be FIREd long before we can reasonably expect my parents to live).  But I don't think I'd enjoy it any less.  To me, FIRE is almost entirely about, well... being FIREd.  The means matters little.

Also, I know my parents want to leave us a large sum (they once told my DH they are hoping to leave both my sister and me seven figures).  They would be absolutely thrilled if that is what allowed us to FIRE and to live the kind of life we hope for in retirement.  It would give them great satisfaction.  So if that was what put us over the edge to FIRE, it would make me feel good knowing that their money did something that would have pleased them. 

auntie_betty

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #812 on: December 16, 2016, 03:23:03 AM »
Inheriting my parents little house, which I've rented out, gave me the opportunity to help my two children out with house deposits (I remortgaged and then paid it off within 18 months, all disposable income was tied up). The rent forms around 1/5th of our FIRE'd income and definitely let me go sooner. They'd be delighted - they both retired early. They weren't great with money - didn't spend a lot but were afraid to touch their small capital pot, so for example they took out a loan at 15% to pay for double glazing. I couldn't persuade them to 'borrow from themselves' and pay back their savings monthly.

It doesn't spoil my enjoyment one little bit :) As others have said, plenty folks inherit similar and blow it.

talltexan

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #813 on: December 16, 2016, 07:59:00 AM »
Explaining your FIRE status to a normal person is challenging. I see how the question of whether you inherited your stash would be part of that, and explaining that, yes, you did, might actually seem more normal than, "Actually, I was really focused for 16 years and saved 48% of every dollar I touched"

Playing with Fire UK

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #814 on: December 16, 2016, 08:05:24 AM »
Explaining your FIRE status to a normal person is challenging. I see how the question of whether you inherited your stash would be part of that, and explaining that, yes, you did, might actually seem more normal than, "Actually, I was really focused for 16 years and saved 48% of every dollar I touched"

I agree that more people would understand an inheritance rather than MMMing, but I'd be concerned that they'd think that I was totally minted rather than careful. Enter requests for cash, lawsuits, long-lost children appearing, etc. I'm all about the stealth.

Just Joe

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #815 on: December 16, 2016, 08:18:44 AM »
Never count on inheritances. We were assured we'd "be taken care of" someday. Due to family dynamics I feel that is uncertain. And "taken care of" was never even close to defined.

Our plans are independent of any promises made by anyone else.

Playing with Fire UK

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #816 on: December 16, 2016, 09:17:44 AM »
Never count on inheritances. We were assured we'd "be taken care of" someday. Due to family dynamics I feel that is uncertain. And "taken care of" was never even close to defined.

This is basically the first chapter of Pride & Prejudice.

Just Joe

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #817 on: December 16, 2016, 09:22:33 AM »
I really need to read that book. Its on my list.

TheGrimSqueaker

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #818 on: December 16, 2016, 09:25:47 AM »
Never count on inheritances. We were assured we'd "be taken care of" someday. Due to family dynamics I feel that is uncertain. And "taken care of" was never even close to defined.

This is basically the first chapter of Pride & Prejudice.

Likewise in the second half of The House of Mirth, and the heroine really landed on her face as a result.

Playing with Fire UK

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #819 on: December 16, 2016, 09:30:42 AM »
Never count on inheritances. We were assured we'd "be taken care of" someday. Due to family dynamics I feel that is uncertain. And "taken care of" was never even close to defined.
This is basically the first chapter of Pride & Prejudice.
Likewise in the second half of The House of Mirth, and the heroine really landed on her face as a result.

Yes! A much better example. Thanks TGS.

talltexan

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #820 on: December 16, 2016, 01:17:22 PM »
I've seen many divorce cases in which the husband assured his wife that they didn't need to be saving for retirement because they would inherit some family resources. Then they got divorced while MIL was still alive, and wife had no claim to MIL's resources or estate, and there was nothing saved.

Playing with Fire UK

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #821 on: December 16, 2016, 01:57:30 PM »
I've seen many divorce cases in which the husband assured his wife that they didn't need to be saving for retirement because they would inherit some family resources. Then they got divorced while MIL was still alive, and wife had no claim to MIL's resources or estate, and there was nothing saved.

Wow, that is brutal. Do you know these couples professionally or personally? I can't get over how many people rely on an inheritance, when it isn't their money and you never know how much care someone will need or how the older relatives choose to spend their money.

mtn

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #822 on: December 16, 2016, 02:27:17 PM »
I've seen many divorce cases in which the husband assured his wife that they didn't need to be saving for retirement because they would inherit some family resources. Then they got divorced while MIL was still alive, and wife had no claim to MIL's resources or estate, and there was nothing saved.

Wow, that is brutal. Do you know these couples professionally or personally? I can't get over how many people rely on an inheritance, when it isn't their money and you never know how much care someone will need or how the older relatives choose to spend their money.

My dad has been threatening for years to buy a ridiculously unmustachian boat. Hasn't happened yet, but I'd be happy for him if he does. That would put a big dent in my inheritance though.

talltexan

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #823 on: December 16, 2016, 02:38:36 PM »
to Playing with fire: I served as an expert witness in these cases.

Spork

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #824 on: December 16, 2016, 02:58:20 PM »
I've seen many divorce cases in which the husband assured his wife that they didn't need to be saving for retirement because they would inherit some family resources. Then they got divorced while MIL was still alive, and wife had no claim to MIL's resources or estate, and there was nothing saved.

My sister claims my dad said he'd take care of her with what she'd inherit.  (I'm skeptical.)  But 10 years of RMDs went by... and sis was a royal bitch (understatement) to dad and her own children.  It turns out her share was much less... and that dad pre-divided it between her and her children because he didn't think she would pass anything on to them.

iris lily

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #825 on: December 16, 2016, 03:03:05 PM »
Never count on inheritances. We were assured we'd "be taken care of" someday. Due to family dynamics I feel that is uncertain. And "taken care of" was never even close to defined.

This is basically the first chapter of Pride & Prejudice.

Likewise in the second half of The House of Mirth, and the heroine really landed on her face as a result.
Gillian Anderson is in a  great film production of that book.

Playing with Fire UK

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #826 on: December 16, 2016, 03:23:25 PM »
to Playing with fire: I served as an expert witness in these cases.

That sounds fascinating, and horrifying.

Villanelle

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #827 on: December 17, 2016, 01:40:22 AM »
Never count on inheritances. We were assured we'd "be taken care of" someday. Due to family dynamics I feel that is uncertain. And "taken care of" was never even close to defined.

Our plans are independent of any promises made by anyone else.

I don't really count on it (in the sense that when we look at our numbers and plans, we don't automatically add in dollar amount for a future inheritance), but it's very much in the back of my mind as an additional safety factor. And perhaps it makes me feel a bit better about pulling the trigger with a slightly tighter annual withdraw amount.   Knowing the details I do about my parents, I don't actually think I'd be misguided if I did somewhat count on it.  They have a positive cash flow, even in their 70s. (2 generous pensions, plus social security, plus a consulting gig dad continues to do because he finds it rewarding, and a few other things). They have great healthcare, and are fairly modest spenders.  It's hard to imagine a scenario where they'd blow through the roughly 2mm they are hoping to leave to my sibling and me.  And our family dynamics are incredibly healthy and stable, so someone getting disowned is so far-fetched that it's laughable.  And sibling and I have both been clearly told that we stand to inherit, and that $1mm per child figure was thrown out (though it was a goal at the time, and they weren't quite there yet as of several years ago when we we last discussed actual amounts). Maybe I'd only get $6-700k instead of $1mm.  But nothing or very little?  I don't see any realistic scenario where that would happen.

Again, I don't count on it, and I fully recognize their right to do whatever the heck they want with their money.  I truly wish they'd spend more.  It makes me crazy to be out with mom and have her comment on how pretty a sweater is, but then refuse to buy it.  (And we are talking $50 sweaters, not $500.)  And if they wanted to leave it all to cancer research of the local library or whatever, great.  But they very much *want* to leave us that money, and I don't see that suddenly changing. So while we don't really count on it, I think that as long as one is looking honestly at the situation and the people and factors involved, and has been told what is in the will (with specifics), I don't think it's foolhardy to assume that what one is told will happen will actually happen.  And even to plan accordingly.

Jakejake

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #828 on: December 17, 2016, 07:25:50 AM »
My sister called. She's one of those adults in her 50's still being supported/bailed out regularly by our parents. She hasn't paid off the last money she borrowed from them (but still managed to make political donations this year). 

Her question: She has trouble paying her mortgage and due to bad credit has a high interest rate. Would it be okay with me if she had mom and dad pay off her mortgage and she would pay them back? Our parents are in their mid 70's, with health problems. With 20 years left on her current mortgage, there's zero chance she will actually pay it back to them.

What she eventually got to: Am I okay with her borrowing both her share and potentially my share of our inheritance? And do I have any problem with my parents setting me up to be her personal mortgage company after they pass away?

WTF. I'm right now processing vegetables I got from dumpster diving, while she goes out to eat on a regular basis and was eating lunches out at restaurants (not even take out) every day when she had a full time job, and I couldn't talk her out of that.

Ugh. I noped my way out of that conversation and told her I'm not involved in any financial dealings between her and our parents.

But I'm a little stunned that given their health issues (major surgeries this year), her thought is "Shit, the parent bank might not be around that much longer, how can I get my hands on as much as possible while it's still in their name?" and that she would think that asking to borrow potentially most of their savings when they are coming up on end of life care needs is in any way appropriate.

TallFrodo

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #829 on: December 17, 2016, 07:38:07 AM »
Sharing this one on behalf of my boss' wife, as it was told to me after a few beers - fake names used just to prevent any confusion since it all sounded a little too perfect to be true.

As a young man, Grandpa Al came to Australia with nothing but a suitcase and a dream. In that suitcase was a https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stradivarius violin however, so he had that going for him. Skip forward a couple decades and Grandpa Al has become older and frailer and it's up to his youngest daughter Belle to look after him in his final years since everyone else has moved interstate.

When Grandpa Al finally passes most of the family hasn't spoken to him in months and despite having 5 children, only a few bother to show up to his funeral.

Now, what DOES get their attention is that stradivarius violin that he'd kept locked up tight. Probably worth millions, the rest of his estate consists of his humble abode, its contents and the land it sat on. Something like 100k all up and his will is a barebones matter saying that everything is to be split evenly between the 5 children.

Immediately, children who didn't bother to show up to the funeral are calling Belle and pestering her about the Violin which had been Grandpa Al's pride and joy but never specifically mentioned in the will or insured because he wasn't a banking sort of guy. Everyone insists they had been promised it verbally and within days Belle is being pestered by four different lawyers and urged to take her own due to the amount of money involved.

By the time the dust settles, the family that was once distant is now fractured, family members and their spouses have lied to each other, had screaming matches, etc etc. Four lawyers' fees taken out of the estate have reduced it down to a fraction of its meagre amount and the Stradivarius is finally retrieved and valued at... less than a grand.

Turns out it was a fake. Either Grandpa Al had been swindled back in his 20s or he had bought the thing more recently and just spun a very convincing tall tale without realising how much strife it would cause.

Long story short, most of the family still won't talk to each other and the fake violin is sitting in a dusty cupboard somewhere in Belle's new house.

iris lily

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #830 on: December 17, 2016, 07:56:31 AM »
Never count on inheritances. We were assured we'd "be taken care of" someday. Due to family dynamics I feel that is uncertain. And "taken care of" was never even close to defined.

Our plans are independent of any promises made by anyone else.

I don't really count on it (in the sense that when we look at our numbers and plans, we don't automatically add in dollar amount for a future inheritance), but it's very much in the back of my mind as an additional safety factor. And perhaps it makes me feel a bit better about pulling the trigger with a slightly tighter annual withdraw amount.   Knowing the details I do about my parents, I don't actually think I'd be misguided if I did somewhat count on it.  They have a positive cash flow, even in their 70s. (2 generous pensions, plus social security, plus a consulting gig dad continues to do because he finds it rewarding, and a few other things). They have great healthcare, and are fairly modest spenders.  It's hard to imagine a scenario where they'd blow through the roughly 2mm they are hoping to leave to my sibling and me.  And our family dynamics are incredibly healthy and stable, so someone getting disowned is so far-fetched that it's laughable.  And sibling and I have both been clearly told that we stand to inherit, and that $1mm per child figure was thrown out (though it was a goal at the time, and they weren't quite there yet as of several years ago when we we last discussed actual amounts). Maybe I'd only get $6-700k instead of $1mm.  But nothing or very little?  I don't see any realistic scenario where that would happen.

Again, I don't count on it, and I fully recognize their right to do whatever the heck they want with their money.  I truly wish they'd spend more.  It makes me crazy to be out with mom and have her comment on how pretty a sweater is, but then refuse to buy it.  (And we are talking $50 sweaters, not $500.)  And if they wanted to leave it all to cancer research of the local library or whatever, great.  But they very much *want* to leave us that money, and I don't see that suddenly changing. So while we don't really count on it, I think that as long as one is looking honestly at the situation and the people and factors involved, and has been told what is in the will (with specifics), I don't think it's foolhardy to assume that what one is told will happen will actually happen.  And even to plan accordingly.

I think you are right. 70 year olds who are modest spenders dont suddenly start being consuma suckers. But an Alzheimer's Disease diagnosis could put one of them in a nirsing home which would eat into their assets. With each parent having a decent pensins and Social security, though, those jncome woild pay for half amd the other half would,have to come iut of their savings. figure $100,000 annually to start.

Playing with Fire UK

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #831 on: December 17, 2016, 12:23:16 PM »
By the time the dust settles, the family that was once distant is now fractured, family members and their spouses have lied to each other, had screaming matches, etc etc. Four lawyers' fees taken out of the estate have reduced it down to a fraction of its meagre amount and the Stradivarius is finally retrieved and valued at... less than a grand.

This is so sad.

kayvent

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #832 on: December 17, 2016, 02:01:30 PM »
King Solomon was right: the violin should have been cut into five pieces. Would have saved everyone tens of thousands of dollars.

Metric Mouse

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #833 on: December 18, 2016, 04:04:33 AM »
King Solomon was right: the violin should have been cut into five pieces. Would have saved everyone tens of thousands of dollars.

Or at least appraised...

Playing with Fire UK

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #834 on: December 18, 2016, 05:41:50 AM »
Ugh. I noped my way out of that conversation and told her I'm not involved in any financial dealings between her and our parents.

But I'm a little stunned that given their health issues (major surgeries this year), her thought is "Shit, the parent bank might not be around that much longer, how can I get my hands on as much as possible while it's still in their name?" and that she would think that asking to borrow potentially most of their savings when they are coming up on end of life care needs is in any way appropriate.

This sounds scary. Do you think your parents would be strong armed into favouring her financially?

Jakejake

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #835 on: December 18, 2016, 07:01:29 AM »
This sounds scary. Do you think your parents would be strong armed into favouring her financially?
They've always tried to me incredibly equal in how they treat my sister and me. At first when she would call and say she needed a couple thousand dollars, they would give it to her but mail me an unsolicited check for the same amount.

Then it was clear she was calling them to say she was about to be foreclosed on, homeless, etc, which was true - but then spending thousands on vet bills for pets, and still acquiring/hoarding more pets instead of understanding she can't afford them. I think at that point they switched to "loans" instead of gifts, but I don't think she's ever paid them back.

They have to weigh being angry about her choices, understanding they are enabling her (which they get), vs. not wanting their kid to be destitute. It's scary in part because my mother's got the beginnings of cognitive impairment, so it's really on my dad's shoulders to make sure they are protecting their assets so if he passes away first, there's savings to cover memory care for my mom if she needs it. And if my mom is the sole survivor and gets worse, it would be very easy to scam her.

Spork

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #836 on: December 18, 2016, 08:28:59 AM »
This sounds scary. Do you think your parents would be strong armed into favouring her financially?
They've always tried to me incredibly equal in how they treat my sister and me. At first when she would call and say she needed a couple thousand dollars, they would give it to her but mail me an unsolicited check for the same amount.

Then it was clear she was calling them to say she was about to be foreclosed on, homeless, etc, which was true - but then spending thousands on vet bills for pets, and still acquiring/hoarding more pets instead of understanding she can't afford them. I think at that point they switched to "loans" instead of gifts, but I don't think she's ever paid them back.

They have to weigh being angry about her choices, understanding they are enabling her (which they get), vs. not wanting their kid to be destitute. It's scary in part because my mother's got the beginnings of cognitive impairment, so it's really on my dad's shoulders to make sure they are protecting their assets so if he passes away first, there's savings to cover memory care for my mom if she needs it. And if my mom is the sole survivor and gets worse, it would be very easy to scam her.

I know this is your parents and you don't have any say in this but... She will likely not change.  The most likely thing that would "help" her is to let her see the results of her own actions and let her fix her own problems.  The bail outs make matters worse.  This is personal experience talking here... My sister is almost 60.  Both of my parents died recently and she's suddenly "on her own" for the first time in her life.  I'm not expecting success.

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #837 on: December 18, 2016, 10:11:13 AM »
This sounds scary. Do you think your parents would be strong armed into favouring her financially?
They've always tried to me incredibly equal in how they treat my sister and me. At first when she would call and say she needed a couple thousand dollars, they would give it to her but mail me an unsolicited check for the same amount.

Then it was clear she was calling them to say she was about to be foreclosed on, homeless, etc, which was true - but then spending thousands on vet bills for pets, and still acquiring/hoarding more pets instead of understanding she can't afford them. I think at that point they switched to "loans" instead of gifts, but I don't think she's ever paid them back.

They have to weigh being angry about her choices, understanding they are enabling her (which they get), vs. not wanting their kid to be destitute. It's scary in part because my mother's got the beginnings of cognitive impairment, so it's really on my dad's shoulders to make sure they are protecting their assets so if he passes away first, there's savings to cover memory care for my mom if she needs it. And if my mom is the sole survivor and gets worse, it would be very easy to scam her.

Oh goodness.  Your father's best bet may be to set up some sort of trust with the majority of their assets that will only be able to provide living expenses and care for your mother.  I think it could be set up so that, when your mother passes, the balance would be split between you and your sister (or, heck, left entirely to charity), with or without adjustments made for outstanding loans.

Jakejake

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #838 on: December 18, 2016, 11:11:03 AM »
My sister is almost 60.  Both of my parents died recently and she's suddenly "on her own" for the first time in her life.  I'm not expecting success.
If you don't mind sharing a bit more, what do you see happening with her? Is she going to be able to downsize and cut expenses? Will you be guilted into rescuing her if she ends up homeless?

These are long-term side-concerns I have with my sister.

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #839 on: December 18, 2016, 01:00:36 PM »
This sounds scary. Do you think your parents would be strong armed into favouring her financially?
They've always tried to me incredibly equal in how they treat my sister and me. At first when she would call and say she needed a couple thousand dollars, they would give it to her but mail me an unsolicited check for the same amount.

Then it was clear she was calling them to say she was about to be foreclosed on, homeless, etc, which was true - but then spending thousands on vet bills for pets, and still acquiring/hoarding more pets instead of understanding she can't afford them. I think at that point they switched to "loans" instead of gifts, but I don't think she's ever paid them back.

They have to weigh being angry about her choices, understanding they are enabling her (which they get), vs. not wanting their kid to be destitute. It's scary in part because my mother's got the beginnings of cognitive impairment, so it's really on my dad's shoulders to make sure they are protecting their assets so if he passes away first, there's savings to cover memory care for my mom if she needs it. And if my mom is the sole survivor and gets worse, it would be very easy to scam her.
[/quote
The thing is, if one spouse is dead, then the rest of it is easier sailing. When funds run out she is cared for by the taxpayers.

Ive always been more concerned about two spouses ina a household and one needs lots of care.

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #840 on: December 19, 2016, 07:43:11 AM »
My sister is almost 60.  Both of my parents died recently and she's suddenly "on her own" for the first time in her life.  I'm not expecting success.
If you don't mind sharing a bit more, what do you see happening with her? Is she going to be able to downsize and cut expenses? Will you be guilted into rescuing her if she ends up homeless?

These are long-term side-concerns I have with my sister.

I don't honestly know.  She's been given money from my parents well into 7 figures over her lifetime.  No amount of money has ever made a difference.  She continually moves from one self-created crisis to the next.

She's burned her bridges with me and her other siblings... and with her own children.  No idea how it will pan out.  But I don't think she is in a position to apply guilt successfully to her side of the family.  Possibly she can apply guilt to her husband's side of the family.

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #841 on: December 19, 2016, 07:57:42 AM »
I've seen many divorce cases in which the husband assured his wife that they didn't need to be saving for retirement because they would inherit some family resources. Then they got divorced while MIL was still alive, and wife had no claim to MIL's resources or estate, and there was nothing saved.
Ouchie...this actually happened to my husband in his first marriage.  The second time around, he married up ;-)

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #842 on: December 19, 2016, 08:20:13 AM »
Indeed, my MIL was trying to attribute our success to some family money that my wife inherited before we were married. She can be forgiven for not knowing what's in our 401-k statements.


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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #843 on: December 21, 2016, 11:17:39 AM »
By the time the dust settles, the family that was once distant is now fractured, family members and their spouses have lied to each other, had screaming matches, etc etc. Four lawyers' fees taken out of the estate have reduced it down to a fraction of its meagre amount and the Stradivarius is finally retrieved and valued at... less than a grand.

This is so sad.

Personally, I find it hilarious.

They all chose to prioritize their imaginary future wealth over their relationships. And in the end, because they all acted like selfish assholes, they got less than nothing for it. GOOD.

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #844 on: December 21, 2016, 11:18:12 AM »
Indeed, my MIL was trying to attribute our success to some family money that my wife inherited before we were married. She can be forgiven for not knowing what's in our 401-k statements.


Keep it that way. ;)

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #845 on: December 21, 2016, 05:33:08 PM »
This thread has made me very sure that if anyone ever leaves me anything other then money jointly, if we can't amicably work out what to do with it within six months, I will simply relinquish all claim to it. Not worth it.
We have an inheritance story brewing (old grand dad not ready to split property between kids (that was bequeathed to them by their grand parents), one of the kids (! In their late 60s) trying to cheat the other kid out of their share and younger generation from both sides trying to get the best part of the pie). The problem is compounded by the fact that the property in question is worth millions and some of the younger generation (kid trying to cheat and their progeny) are financially dependent on the cash flow from the property. And the kid being cheated and their progeny don't want to fight too hard but want the others to settle fairly.

I've got popcorn popping!!

Shelivesthedream, exactly my sentiments! But in the above story, it's harder to let go because of the value of the property (think a set of real estate and profitable buildings in Manhattan). Thankfully it's not my direct problem (will help my kids though) but also makes it harder because it brings up the question should I fight for my kids since they are < 3 years old and would feel later on that mom should've fought for what was given to us. Makes the decision to let go harder when it's not your own stake.

Our FIRE plans are independent of this shitstorm since we firmly believe our FIRE shouldn't include any inheritance.
Update: the fight is starting to get intense and 60+ years of relationships are being destroyed. The older sibling (who was the reason for all these fights) now claims her dad never gave her anything despite him bankrolling her lifestyle (and her entire family, including kids and their families) for around 50 years. Cousins that grew up together as one family are so distrustful of each other now and are trying to get others (tenants of the buildings in question) to side with them so they can take over by force (since justice by law will take years to settle) if necessary.

I would think it's hilarious if I weren't related to them. Now, it's more like a slow moving train wreck from which I can't avert my eyes :(

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #846 on: December 22, 2016, 08:34:54 AM »
By the time the dust settles, the family that was once distant is now fractured, family members and their spouses have lied to each other, had screaming matches, etc etc. Four lawyers' fees taken out of the estate have reduced it down to a fraction of its meagre amount and the Stradivarius is finally retrieved and valued at... less than a grand.

Turns out it was a fake. Either Grandpa Al had been swindled back in his 20s or he had bought the thing more recently and just spun a very convincing tall tale without realising how much strife it would cause.

Oh, I actually know a little bit about fake Stradivarius's

Antonio Stradivarius was very famous in his own lifetime, and was charging a pretty penny for his violins.  So, some enterprising people in other countries (Germany, iirc?) would manufacture dodgy knockoff Stradivarius violins and sell 'em.  So!  The violin may very well have been from the time of Stradivarius, which means it's still a pretty damn old violin... Just that some enterprising fellow a few hundred years ago slapped a Stradivarius label on it to make money.

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #847 on: December 22, 2016, 08:49:03 AM »
By the time the dust settles, the family that was once distant is now fractured, family members and their spouses have lied to each other, had screaming matches, etc etc. Four lawyers' fees taken out of the estate have reduced it down to a fraction of its meagre amount and the Stradivarius is finally retrieved and valued at... less than a grand.

Turns out it was a fake. Either Grandpa Al had been swindled back in his 20s or he had bought the thing more recently and just spun a very convincing tall tale without realising how much strife it would cause.

Oh, I actually know a little bit about fake Stradivarius's

Antonio Stradivarius was very famous in his own lifetime, and was charging a pretty penny for his violins.  So, some enterprising people in other countries (Germany, iirc?) would manufacture dodgy knockoff Stradivarius violins and sell 'em.  So!  The violin may very well have been from the time of Stradivarius, which means it's still a pretty damn old violin... Just that some enterprising fellow a few hundred years ago slapped a Stradivarius label on it to make money.
Label's on instruments manufactured today still will often say "Stradivarius" somewhere on them.  But it indicates using a Stradivarius pattern, which if the label is read entirely is clear.  Back when I worked at a music store, probably every 6 months someone would come in with a violin all excited.  "Is this really a Stradivarius violin!?  We found it in Grandma's attic!"  "No - see the label says it was made in 1954.  <explanation of why everyone uses Strad patterns>  Might still be a nice violin though, would you like our shop to take a look at at?"

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #848 on: December 23, 2016, 12:53:57 AM »
Indeed, my MIL was trying to attribute our success to some family money that my wife inherited before we were married. She can be forgiven for not knowing what's in our 401-k statements.
Keep it that way. ;)

Yes. It depends on context and your family but my MILs have never started an inappropriate conversation about their past kindness without it leading to an opportunity for us to pay it back.

mustachepungoeshere

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Re: Inheritance Drama: You Got Any? Stories Wanted.
« Reply #849 on: December 27, 2016, 03:18:44 AM »
A very minor, light-hearted contribution.

Home for Christmas, Mum asked me to order her a copy of a book I knew she already owned.

Turns out she had loaned it to her father, who loaned it to his neighbour, who went into aged care and then ... died.

My dad (jokingly) suggested she make a claim against the estate, but Mum has sort of resigned herself to not getting the book back.