Author Topic: I Tried to Save Money on Groceries and Ended Up Poisoning Myself  (Read 7770 times)

havregryn

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I felt this belonged here.

The story goes :  She couldn't cook beans. Had to take student loans.   

https://www.thekitchn.com/food-poisoning-under-cooked-beans-267432?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=managed&fbclid=IwAR2rans_2CfTQVK3S3i5wpm00jK1JO0k2DjFQ7i2gvq95eUgOOlqiWvaBLU

I also love the irony of the fact that someone who is so worried about food poisoning considers artisanal salami to be the height of culinary experience and luxury. Isn't salami something that carries a high risk of coming with bacteria.


elliha

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Re: I Tried to Save Money on Groceries and Ended Up Poisoning Myself
« Reply #1 on: March 12, 2019, 04:36:45 AM »
I am just surprised this person did not know that you can get problems from undercooked beans, I have read this warning in every single vegetarian cook book I have ever looked in and in many bean recipes online as well. It should be very well known if you consume beans at all. This mistake is just so easily avoidable and you can still eat beans and save money if you like. I have family members who are very sensitive to too much beans and lentils etc. so we cannot eat it more than once a week or so but if I had been single it would probably be something I would eat 3-4 times a week at least because you can make so many great things out of beans.

Malkynn

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Re: I Tried to Save Money on Groceries and Ended Up Poisoning Myself
« Reply #2 on: March 12, 2019, 04:46:19 AM »
Wait...her lesson learned is to take on more debt to spend more on food?? She didn't just learnt to soak and cook her goddamn beans properly???

havregryn

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Re: I Tried to Save Money on Groceries and Ended Up Poisoning Myself
« Reply #3 on: March 12, 2019, 05:23:19 AM »
Wait...her lesson learned is to take on more debt to spend more on food?? She didn't just learnt to soak and cook her goddamn beans properly???

That's why I shared it here...without the whole "well obviously the only way to survive is to take loans" conclusion it would just be a sad story of a Millenial who can't cook. This way it's a gallery piece of anti-Mustachianism.

brute

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Re: I Tried to Save Money on Groceries and Ended Up Poisoning Myself
« Reply #4 on: March 12, 2019, 06:01:53 AM »
I felt this belonged here.

The story goes :  She couldn't cook beans. Had to take student loans.   

https://www.thekitchn.com/food-poisoning-under-cooked-beans-267432?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=managed&fbclid=IwAR2rans_2CfTQVK3S3i5wpm00jK1JO0k2DjFQ7i2gvq95eUgOOlqiWvaBLU

I also love the irony of the fact that someone who is so worried about food poisoning considers artisanal salami to be the height of culinary experience and luxury. Isn't salami something that carries a high risk of coming with bacteria.
This bolded is categorically wrong. Artisinal salami is cultured with lactic acid bacteria (the kind we use for yogurt, cheese, and in our own bodies). The acid levels climb quickly to a point where enteric bacteria cannot survive. They've done studies with this showing that you can even inject e. coli into the salami while hanging at room temp and there's no risk of illness, the acid kills it before it can go much. Also, the salt levels in sausages slow bacterial reproduction.

Regular salami is gross and does not have these benefits to its shelf life, but the good stuff is safe.

FindingFI

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Re: I Tried to Save Money on Groceries and Ended Up Poisoning Myself
« Reply #5 on: March 12, 2019, 06:38:29 AM »
I poisoned not only myself, but my husband too the same way.  It was an attempt at turkey chili. Browned the turkey in a pan, dumped that, some broth, a bunch of dried beans and some tomato in a slow-cooker and let is simmer on low for hours. We both had to call out sick from work the next day. It was terrible. 

But my takeaway was not "never cook beans again." It was "don't be such a dumbass an maybe look up how to do it next time instead of guessing." There have been several yummy and non-toxic batches of baked beans since.  Or I guess we could have just given up, you know, to be safe because learning something new is just too risky.

brooklynmoney

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Re: I Tried to Save Money on Groceries and Ended Up Poisoning Myself
« Reply #6 on: March 12, 2019, 07:16:01 AM »
I used can beans. Not as cheap as the bags of raw but whatever.

havregryn

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Re: I Tried to Save Money on Groceries and Ended Up Poisoning Myself
« Reply #7 on: March 12, 2019, 07:16:45 AM »
I felt this belonged here.

The story goes :  She couldn't cook beans. Had to take student loans.   

https://www.thekitchn.com/food-poisoning-under-cooked-beans-267432?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=managed&fbclid=IwAR2rans_2CfTQVK3S3i5wpm00jK1JO0k2DjFQ7i2gvq95eUgOOlqiWvaBLU

I also love the irony of the fact that someone who is so worried about food poisoning considers artisanal salami to be the height of culinary experience and luxury. Isn't salami something that carries a high risk of coming with bacteria.
This bolded is categorically wrong. Artisinal salami is cultured with lactic acid bacteria (the kind we use for yogurt, cheese, and in our own bodies). The acid levels climb quickly to a point where enteric bacteria cannot survive. They've done studies with this showing that you can even inject e. coli into the salami while hanging at room temp and there's no risk of illness, the acid kills it before it can go much. Also, the salt levels in sausages slow bacterial reproduction.

Regular salami is gross and does not have these benefits to its shelf life, but the good stuff is safe.

Cool, thanks for telling me, I am really no expert on salami, to me salami is "questionable parts of questionable animals handled in a questionable way", I am from Eastern Europe :D As the author claims to be too so I am still a bit skeptical what it is she's eating to save herself from poisonous beans.  In my home country pregnant women are advised against eating salami as it tends to carry listeria. But really, I have very little knowledge and interest in the field as I don't eat any of that, I am not a full vegetarian but close, I really dislike 99% of meats out there.

Cool Friend

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Re: I Tried to Save Money on Groceries and Ended Up Poisoning Myself
« Reply #8 on: March 12, 2019, 07:26:30 AM »
I felt this belonged here.

The story goes :  She couldn't cook beans. Had to take student loans.   

https://www.thekitchn.com/food-poisoning-under-cooked-beans-267432?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=managed&fbclid=IwAR2rans_2CfTQVK3S3i5wpm00jK1JO0k2DjFQ7i2gvq95eUgOOlqiWvaBLU

I also love the irony of the fact that someone who is so worried about food poisoning considers artisanal salami to be the height of culinary experience and luxury. Isn't salami something that carries a high risk of coming with bacteria.
This bolded is categorically wrong. Artisinal salami is cultured with lactic acid bacteria (the kind we use for yogurt, cheese, and in our own bodies). The acid levels climb quickly to a point where enteric bacteria cannot survive. They've done studies with this showing that you can even inject e. coli into the salami while hanging at room temp and there's no risk of illness, the acid kills it before it can go much. Also, the salt levels in sausages slow bacterial reproduction.

Regular salami is gross and does not have these benefits to its shelf life, but the good stuff is safe.

This is fascinating! 

I ate bad mushrooms once, got really sick, and would get nauseous at the smell of them for like 10 years before I could eat them again.  I can understand her wanting to avoid beans for a while after this experience.  But damn lady, did you not read a recipe before making dry beans for the first time??

Captain FIRE

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Re: I Tried to Save Money on Groceries and Ended Up Poisoning Myself
« Reply #9 on: March 12, 2019, 07:32:59 AM »
I am just surprised this person did not know that you can get problems from undercooked beans, I have read this warning in every single vegetarian cook book I have ever looked in and in many bean recipes online as well. It should be very well known if you consume beans at all. This mistake is just so easily avoidable and you can still eat beans and save money if you like.

It's always easy to avoid mistakes if you know about them.  e.g. My friend spent apparently an hour or two taking apart a sewing machine and watching utube videos on it this weekend, trying to solve a problem.  They asked me when I visited and I showed them how to do what they wanted within seconds.  So I would applaud her for trying rather than roast for being ignorant.

I am a regular reader here and while I know people say to soak dried beans before cooking, I had no idea if you don't a toxin in the beans could cause health issues.  I'm not a vegetarian so I don't read those cookbooks to see the warnings you mention.  I figured it was more a taste issue.  (I've got a bag of dried beans I keep meaning to cook - someday - but in the meantime I use canned beans because I've got a toddler so life is hard enough and I'll pat myself on the back for cooking with them rather than doing takeout, thankyouverymuch.)

I'm not saying it wouldn't have been better to respond by looking up how to properly cook beans rather than eschew them entirely, but given a week of bad illness, I get not wanting to eat beans again for a long, long time.  I mean, our bodies are evolutionarily designed to create food aversions after eating bad food so our hunter gatherer selves don't keep eating stuff that makes us sick and could kill us.

Linea_Norway

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Re: I Tried to Save Money on Groceries and Ended Up Poisoning Myself
« Reply #10 on: March 12, 2019, 07:49:34 AM »
I used can beans. Not as cheap as the bags of raw but whatever.

On only eat canned beans too. They are fast to use and tender. In the past I have tried to cook dried beans several times, but I have seldom gotten them right. So I've given up.

Dabnasty

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Re: I Tried to Save Money on Groceries and Ended Up Poisoning Myself
« Reply #11 on: March 12, 2019, 08:02:12 AM »
I am a regular reader here and while I know people say to soak dried beans before cooking, I had no idea if you don't a toxin in the beans could cause health issues.  I'm not a vegetarian so I don't read those cookbooks to see the warnings you mention.  I figured it was more a taste issue.  (I've got a bag of dried beans I keep meaning to cook - someday - but in the meantime I use canned beans because I've got a toddler so life is hard enough and I'll pat myself on the back for cooking with them rather than doing takeout, thankyouverymuch.)

It's not all beans, kidney beans have the highest concentrations of the chemical (Phytohaemagglutinin) and a few others have lower concentrations like broad beans.

Here's a quick overview - https://www.statefoodsafety.com/Resources/article/category/Resources/article/Toxic-Beans

It's not about soaking or even cooking the beans long enough, the problem occurs when the temperature doesn't get high enough to destroy the toxin. The article above says all it takes is 10 minutes of boiling, Wikipedia recommends 30 minutes. In any case, that's why she had a problem with the slow cooker. She probably cooked them for a very long time so they were soft enough to eat but never reached the necessary temperature.


Captain FIRE

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Re: I Tried to Save Money on Groceries and Ended Up Poisoning Myself
« Reply #12 on: March 12, 2019, 08:09:42 AM »
It's not about soaking or even cooking the beans long enough, the problem occurs when the temperature doesn't get high enough to destroy the toxin. The article above says all it takes is 10 minutes of boiling, Wikipedia recommends 30 minutes. In any case, that's why she had a problem with the slow cooker. She probably cooked them for a very long time so they were soft enough to eat but never reached the necessary temperature.

Ah, helpful to know.  I thought soaking was the issue based on a few of the comments above.

fattest_foot

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Re: I Tried to Save Money on Groceries and Ended Up Poisoning Myself
« Reply #13 on: March 12, 2019, 09:06:40 AM »
Ignoring the rest of the ridiculousness of this article, she cut back to $200 a month in groceries. For a single person.

But somehow she was also only eating beans and the occassional salami.

less4success

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Re: I Tried to Save Money on Groceries and Ended Up Poisoning Myself
« Reply #14 on: March 12, 2019, 09:21:33 AM »
Can anyone recommend a quick reference guide for common food preparation mistakes?

My 1 minute of web searches only found blog posts that focused on one potential problem, or enormous PDFs put out by friendly government agencies that are simply too long to read.

I've been cooking chickpeas in a slow cooker for years, but I'll sheepishly admit to not knowing I shouldn't do the same for kidney/cannellini beans.

One similar easy-to-make mistake that comes to mind is submersing home-grown garlic in oil for too long, opening the door to botulism.

Tuskalusa

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Re: I Tried to Save Money on Groceries and Ended Up Poisoning Myself
« Reply #15 on: March 12, 2019, 09:30:59 AM »
It cracks me up that her only option for economical cooking was beans?  Last I checked, there were a lot of different foods at the grocery store. Or maybe that’s just the stores where I live, and all other economical grocery stores only sell dried beans and rice?

ketchup

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Re: I Tried to Save Money on Groceries and Ended Up Poisoning Myself
« Reply #16 on: March 12, 2019, 09:59:23 AM »
Can anyone recommend a quick reference guide for common food preparation mistakes?

My 1 minute of web searches only found blog posts that focused on one potential problem, or enormous PDFs put out by friendly government agencies that are simply too long to read.

I've been cooking chickpeas in a slow cooker for years, but I'll sheepishly admit to not knowing I shouldn't do the same for kidney/cannellini beans.

One similar easy-to-make mistake that comes to mind is submersing home-grown garlic in oil for too long, opening the door to botulism.
My main fuckup in this direction was a couple years back when I ate a whole bunch of undercooked white rice because I was too stubborn to throw it out.

I would not recommend it to a friend.

ABC123

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Re: I Tried to Save Money on Groceries and Ended Up Poisoning Myself
« Reply #17 on: March 12, 2019, 10:20:57 AM »
The instructions on the bag only say to boil for 2 minutes, then sit for an hour, then simmer till they are soft.  Should I really be boiling them for 10 minutes? 

GuitarStv

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Re: I Tried to Save Money on Groceries and Ended Up Poisoning Myself
« Reply #18 on: March 12, 2019, 10:37:59 AM »
The instructions on the bag only say to boil for 2 minutes, then sit for an hour, then simmer till they are soft.  Should I really be boiling them for 10 minutes?

How much food poisoning are you comfortable with?

TheGrimSqueaker

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Re: I Tried to Save Money on Groceries and Ended Up Poisoning Myself
« Reply #19 on: March 12, 2019, 10:55:32 AM »
I am a regular reader here and while I know people say to soak dried beans before cooking, I had no idea if you don't a toxin in the beans could cause health issues.  I'm not a vegetarian so I don't read those cookbooks to see the warnings you mention.  I figured it was more a taste issue.  (I've got a bag of dried beans I keep meaning to cook - someday - but in the meantime I use canned beans because I've got a toddler so life is hard enough and I'll pat myself on the back for cooking with them rather than doing takeout, thankyouverymuch.)

It's not all beans, kidney beans have the highest concentrations of the chemical (Phytohaemagglutinin) and a few others have lower concentrations like broad beans.

Here's a quick overview - https://www.statefoodsafety.com/Resources/article/category/Resources/article/Toxic-Beans

It's not about soaking or even cooking the beans long enough, the problem occurs when the temperature doesn't get high enough to destroy the toxin. The article above says all it takes is 10 minutes of boiling, Wikipedia recommends 30 minutes. In any case, that's why she had a problem with the slow cooker. She probably cooked them for a very long time so they were soft enough to eat but never reached the necessary temperature.

That's most likely what happened. My slow cooker, set to a high temperature, can bring water to a full rolling boil especially with the lid on. Not all slow cookers can reach this temperature.

mm1970

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Re: I Tried to Save Money on Groceries and Ended Up Poisoning Myself
« Reply #20 on: March 12, 2019, 11:29:20 AM »
I used can beans. Not as cheap as the bags of raw but whatever.
I like using my pressure cooker - but even adjusting the recipes to try and reduce gas, my husband says that canned beans make him less gassy.

So, I still cook dried beans occasionally - mostly chickpeas and white beans.  But for black beans and kidney beans, I buy canned beans.

(I used to buy black beans in the bulk bins, but once tried to pressure cook them - and I had a mix of beans from 2 different stores.  Half the beans were almost raw, half were great, and sadly, I didn't know which store's were "old".)

partdopy

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Re: I Tried to Save Money on Groceries and Ended Up Poisoning Myself
« Reply #21 on: March 12, 2019, 11:48:16 AM »
It amazes me that people's default option for college is loans.

I've never considered taking out a school loan, have 2 undergraduate degrees and am attending an MBA program.  What happened to employee tuition assistance, working full time through school, the GI Bill, saving, etc...?

The school loan crowd wants to complain about how much school costs, and how they have no choice to take out loans.  Reminds me of the people who have one kid and 'have no choice' but to buy a GMC Yukon Denali SUV.

ABC123

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Re: I Tried to Save Money on Groceries and Ended Up Poisoning Myself
« Reply #22 on: March 12, 2019, 12:01:12 PM »
The instructions on the bag only say to boil for 2 minutes, then sit for an hour, then simmer till they are soft.  Should I really be boiling them for 10 minutes?

How much food poisoning are you comfortable with?

Seems odd that the bean company is giving dangerous cooking instructions.  I've never gotten food poisoning from them, or known anyone else who has. 

Dabnasty

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Re: I Tried to Save Money on Groceries and Ended Up Poisoning Myself
« Reply #23 on: March 12, 2019, 12:13:33 PM »
The instructions on the bag only say to boil for 2 minutes, then sit for an hour, then simmer till they are soft.  Should I really be boiling them for 10 minutes?

How much food poisoning are you comfortable with?

Seems odd that the bean company is giving dangerous cooking instructions.  I've never gotten food poisoning from them, or known anyone else who has.

I can't find a specific temperature at which the toxin is destroyed but Wikipedia says slow cookers operating under 75C/167F can be a problem and that 100C/212F will destroy the toxin. My guess would be that the necessary temp is somewhere between those two numbers and simmering on the stove will probably reach that temperature.

I've also noticed that directions on the bags of beans I buy are all the same for different kinds of beans, which of course means some of them have bad directions.

OtherJen

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Re: I Tried to Save Money on Groceries and Ended Up Poisoning Myself
« Reply #24 on: March 12, 2019, 02:23:11 PM »
I used can beans. Not as cheap as the bags of raw but whatever.
I like using my pressure cooker - but even adjusting the recipes to try and reduce gas, my husband says that canned beans make him less gassy.

So, I still cook dried beans occasionally - mostly chickpeas and white beans.  But for black beans and kidney beans, I buy canned beans.

(I used to buy black beans in the bulk bins, but once tried to pressure cook them - and I had a mix of beans from 2 different stores.  Half the beans were almost raw, half were great, and sadly, I didn't know which store's were "old".)

I always pour boiling water over the beans first, let them soak for an hour, discard the soaking water, and pressure cook them on the high setting for 25 minutes. They’re pretty uniformly perfect and much easier for my husband to digest.

cloudsail

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Re: I Tried to Save Money on Groceries and Ended Up Poisoning Myself
« Reply #25 on: March 12, 2019, 09:13:52 PM »
Can anyone recommend a quick reference guide for common food preparation mistakes?

My 1 minute of web searches only found blog posts that focused on one potential problem, or enormous PDFs put out by friendly government agencies that are simply too long to read.

I've been cooking chickpeas in a slow cooker for years, but I'll sheepishly admit to not knowing I shouldn't do the same for kidney/cannellini beans.

One similar easy-to-make mistake that comes to mind is submersing home-grown garlic in oil for too long, opening the door to botulism.
My main fuckup in this direction was a couple years back when I ate a whole bunch of undercooked white rice because I was too stubborn to throw it out.

I would not recommend it to a friend.

If you undercook rice you can just add some more water and keep cooking it. Or add lots more water and make congee!

remizidae

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Re: I Tried to Save Money on Groceries and Ended Up Poisoning Myself
« Reply #26 on: March 12, 2019, 10:25:55 PM »
Canned beans are safe to eat straight out of the can and can be bought for less than a dollar a can. The dried kind just isn't worth it for me.

remizidae

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Re: I Tried to Save Money on Groceries and Ended Up Poisoning Myself
« Reply #27 on: March 12, 2019, 10:29:46 PM »
It amazes me that people's default option for college is loans.

I've never considered taking out a school loan, have 2 undergraduate degrees and am attending an MBA program.  What happened to employee tuition assistance, working full time through school, the GI Bill, saving, etc...?

The school loan crowd wants to complain about how much school costs, and how they have no choice to take out loans.  Reminds me of the people who have one kid and 'have no choice' but to buy a GMC Yukon Denali SUV.

This debate has been gone over again and again....most 18-year-olds don't have employee tuition assistance or savings. GI bill? Okay for some, but many of us wouldn't join the military at any price. Working through school? Great idea, I did it, but even at 40 hours a week, $10 an hour, 50 weeks a year, you're only making $20k. Good luck paying tuition on that, let alone tuition and expenses.

Now, I don't complain about having loans--I think it's wonderful that I had the option to get an education when I was younger and pay now, when I can afford to pay. But this idea that everyone can get an education without loans is a fairy tale.

elliha

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Re: I Tried to Save Money on Groceries and Ended Up Poisoning Myself
« Reply #28 on: March 13, 2019, 05:28:40 AM »
I used can beans. Not as cheap as the bags of raw but whatever.
I like using my pressure cooker - but even adjusting the recipes to try and reduce gas, my husband says that canned beans make him less gassy.

So, I still cook dried beans occasionally - mostly chickpeas and white beans.  But for black beans and kidney beans, I buy canned beans.

(I used to buy black beans in the bulk bins, but once tried to pressure cook them - and I had a mix of beans from 2 different stores.  Half the beans were almost raw, half were great, and sadly, I didn't know which store's were "old".)

Kidney beans never came out right for me either and I use the canned variety for them. Kidney beans I tend to cook as they are almost always perfect instead and much cheaper dried. I cook a bunch and put the cooked ones in the freezer and just use whatever amount I need straight out of the freezer.

Malkynn

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Re: I Tried to Save Money on Groceries and Ended Up Poisoning Myself
« Reply #29 on: March 13, 2019, 06:16:16 AM »
It amazes me that people's default option for college is loans.

I've never considered taking out a school loan, have 2 undergraduate degrees and am attending an MBA program.  What happened to employee tuition assistance, working full time through school, the GI Bill, saving, etc...?

The school loan crowd wants to complain about how much school costs, and how they have no choice to take out loans.  Reminds me of the people who have one kid and 'have no choice' but to buy a GMC Yukon Denali SUV.

This debate has been gone over again and again....most 18-year-olds don't have employee tuition assistance or savings. GI bill? Okay for some, but many of us wouldn't join the military at any price. Working through school? Great idea, I did it, but even at 40 hours a week, $10 an hour, 50 weeks a year, you're only making $20k. Good luck paying tuition on that, let alone tuition and expenses.

Now, I don't complain about having loans--I think it's wonderful that I had the option to get an education when I was younger and pay now, when I can afford to pay. But this idea that everyone can get an education without loans is a fairy tale.

Yep.
Student debt is hardly the end of the world, as long as the person understands it and manages it appropriately.

Mindless student debt with no realistic plan is a problem.

Fomerly known as something

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Re: I Tried to Save Money on Groceries and Ended Up Poisoning Myself
« Reply #30 on: March 13, 2019, 06:54:16 PM »
I used can beans. Not as cheap as the bags of raw but whatever.

On only eat canned beans too. They are fast to use and tender. In the past I have tried to cook dried beans several times, but I have seldom gotten them right. So I've given up.

So I finally figured out how to use dry beans in the last year, I'm 40.

aasdfadsf

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Re: I Tried to Save Money on Groceries and Ended Up Poisoning Myself
« Reply #31 on: March 13, 2019, 08:24:47 PM »
I'm surprised no one pointed this out:

Quote
As my therapist lovingly told me at our last session, “Bonnie, it’s okay to take out some student loans.”

So she's trying to save money by eating beans, but she still forks over the dough for a therapist? All while she refuses to see a regular doctor?

Granted, therapists are very useful for many people and I dislike the stigma that prevents people from seeing one when they need to, but jeez, advice on beans and student loans is not what they're for.

Malkynn

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Re: I Tried to Save Money on Groceries and Ended Up Poisoning Myself
« Reply #32 on: March 14, 2019, 04:13:00 AM »
I'm surprised no one pointed this out:

Quote
As my therapist lovingly told me at our last session, “Bonnie, it’s okay to take out some student loans.”

So she's trying to save money by eating beans, but she still forks over the dough for a therapist? All while she refuses to see a regular doctor?

Granted, therapists are very useful for many people and I dislike the stigma that prevents people from seeing one when they need to, but jeez, advice on beans and student loans is not what they're for.

Probably has insurance through her parents.

Just Joe

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Re: I Tried to Save Money on Groceries and Ended Up Poisoning Myself
« Reply #33 on: March 14, 2019, 07:25:59 AM »
I used can beans. Not as cheap as the bags of raw but whatever.

On only eat canned beans too. They are fast to use and tender. In the past I have tried to cook dried beans several times, but I have seldom gotten them right. So I've given up.

So I finally figured out how to use dry beans in the last year, I'm 40.

So, I finally learned out how to use dry beans during this discussion. I'm ten years older than you. ;)

I bought an Instant Pot, made a dry bean recipe, didn't drain the water, had minor ahem, noisy belly problems but no sickness. Read this thread and thought a-ha! drain those beans boy! Might help the post meal audio track...

Seriously, I come from a family of good cooks who never bothered to bring the male children into the kitchen to learn how to cook. Reasons like this is why school needs to require Home Economics and other useful topics like basic shop and personal finance. That's possibly more important than the Mayflower stories.

GuitarStv

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Re: I Tried to Save Money on Groceries and Ended Up Poisoning Myself
« Reply #34 on: March 14, 2019, 09:38:31 AM »
I used can beans. Not as cheap as the bags of raw but whatever.

On only eat canned beans too. They are fast to use and tender. In the past I have tried to cook dried beans several times, but I have seldom gotten them right. So I've given up.

So I finally figured out how to use dry beans in the last year, I'm 40.

So, I finally learned out how to use dry beans during this discussion. I'm ten years older than you. ;)

I bought an Instant Pot, made a dry bean recipe, didn't drain the water, had minor ahem, noisy belly problems but no sickness. Read this thread and thought a-ha! drain those beans boy! Might help the post meal audio track...

Seriously, I come from a family of good cooks who never bothered to bring the male children into the kitchen to learn how to cook. Reasons like this is why school needs to require Home Economics and other useful topics like basic shop and personal finance. That's possibly more important than the Mayflower stories.

Drain the water into a cup and save it in the fridge.  Drink heartily of this cup before you go on your next bike ride.  Set records due to +1 Jet Propulsion buff.  :P

mm1970

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Re: I Tried to Save Money on Groceries and Ended Up Poisoning Myself
« Reply #35 on: March 14, 2019, 02:13:44 PM »
It amazes me that people's default option for college is loans.

I've never considered taking out a school loan, have 2 undergraduate degrees and am attending an MBA program.  What happened to employee tuition assistance, working full time through school, the GI Bill, saving, etc...?

The school loan crowd wants to complain about how much school costs, and how they have no choice to take out loans.  Reminds me of the people who have one kid and 'have no choice' but to buy a GMC Yukon Denali SUV.

This debate has been gone over again and again....most 18-year-olds don't have employee tuition assistance or savings. GI bill? Okay for some, but many of us wouldn't join the military at any price. Working through school? Great idea, I did it, but even at 40 hours a week, $10 an hour, 50 weeks a year, you're only making $20k. Good luck paying tuition on that, let alone tuition and expenses.

Now, I don't complain about having loans--I think it's wonderful that I had the option to get an education when I was younger and pay now, when I can afford to pay. But this idea that everyone can get an education without loans is a fairy tale.

Yep, the true answer is for most, a middle ground.  We need to educate a lot of teens on how to get through school, and on how to decide what you can afford. Some people simply won't be able to juggle full time work and school.  Some can't afford that either.

There's a "reasonable" amount to borrow (hint: it depends on what your starting salary is likely to be), but nobody really tells anybody that.

Classical_Liberal

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Re: I Tried to Save Money on Groceries and Ended Up Poisoning Myself
« Reply #36 on: March 14, 2019, 04:17:36 PM »
I bought an Instant Pot, made a dry bean recipe, didn't drain the water, had minor ahem, noisy belly problems but no sickness. Read this thread and thought a-ha! drain those beans boy! Might help the post meal audio track...

Instant pot (or any pressure cooker) is great for beans because you can do a "Presoak" with the cooker.  Just dump in your beans for the recipe and bring it up to full pressure for a minute or two.  Drain and rinse, then dump them back in and cook whatever it is your making.  Works just as good a an overnight soak.

PDXTabs

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Re: I Tried to Save Money on Groceries and Ended Up Poisoning Myself
« Reply #37 on: March 14, 2019, 06:56:05 PM »
I felt this belonged here.

The story goes :  She couldn't cook beans. Had to take student loans.   

https://www.thekitchn.com/food-poisoning-under-cooked-beans-267432?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=managed&fbclid=IwAR2rans_2CfTQVK3S3i5wpm00jK1JO0k2DjFQ7i2gvq95eUgOOlqiWvaBLU

I also love the irony of the fact that someone who is so worried about food poisoning considers artisanal salami to be the height of culinary experience and luxury. Isn't salami something that carries a high risk of coming with bacteria.
This bolded is categorically wrong. Artisinal salami is cultured with lactic acid bacteria (the kind we use for yogurt, cheese, and in our own bodies). The acid levels climb quickly to a point where enteric bacteria cannot survive. They've done studies with this showing that you can even inject e. coli into the salami while hanging at room temp and there's no risk of illness, the acid kills it before it can go much. Also, the salt levels in sausages slow bacterial reproduction.

Also C. Botulinum, which is good because botulism is literally named after poorly cured sausages (Medieval Latin botulus "sausage").


Just Joe

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Re: I Tried to Save Money on Groceries and Ended Up Poisoning Myself
« Reply #38 on: March 15, 2019, 07:24:37 AM »
This debate has been gone over again and again....most 18-year-olds don't have employee tuition assistance or savings. GI bill? Okay for some, but many of us wouldn't join the military at any price. Working through school? Great idea, I did it, but even at 40 hours a week, $10 an hour, 50 weeks a year, you're only making $20k. Good luck paying tuition on that, let alone tuition and expenses.

Now, I don't complain about having loans--I think it's wonderful that I had the option to get an education when I was younger and pay now, when I can afford to pay. But this idea that everyone can get an education without loans is a fairy tale.

That's how I did it though - the GI Bill AND a $10 an hour part time job. Here in flyover country it is possible to rent an apartment for $500-$600 and split the cost with a friend or three. Then, eat cheap. Attend State U. Study hard. This still works here. Might not work in HCOL places I understand.

And the military: there are alternatives to the Army and Marines. Also on the option list is the Air Force, Navy and Coast Guard. Much more tame experiences than the Army and Marines. Lots of engineering opportunities.

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Re: I Tried to Save Money on Groceries and Ended Up Poisoning Myself
« Reply #39 on: March 15, 2019, 05:21:54 PM »
I bought an Instant Pot, made a dry bean recipe, didn't drain the water, had minor ahem, noisy belly problems but no sickness. Read this thread and thought a-ha! drain those beans boy! Might help the post meal audio track...

Instant pot (or any pressure cooker) is great for beans because you can do a "Presoak" with the cooker.  Just dump in your beans for the recipe and bring it up to full pressure for a minute or two.  Drain and rinse, then dump them back in and cook whatever it is your making.  Works just as good a an overnight soak.

Is this necessary? I've always just tossed dried beans into the Instapot and never had any issues.

Classical_Liberal

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Re: I Tried to Save Money on Groceries and Ended Up Poisoning Myself
« Reply #40 on: March 15, 2019, 06:14:23 PM »
I bought an Instant Pot, made a dry bean recipe, didn't drain the water, had minor ahem, noisy belly problems but no sickness. Read this thread and thought a-ha! drain those beans boy! Might help the post meal audio track...

Instant pot (or any pressure cooker) is great for beans because you can do a "Presoak" with the cooker.  Just dump in your beans for the recipe and bring it up to full pressure for a minute or two.  Drain and rinse, then dump them back in and cook whatever it is your making.  Works just as good a an overnight soak.

Is this necessary? I've always just tossed dried beans into the Instapot and never had any issues.

You won't get sick, the bacteria are easily killed.  But soaking "de-gases", ie removes some of the undigestible sugars that cause so much intestinal gas with consumption.  https://wholenewmom.com/whole-new-budget/how-to-degas-beans/

Also helps so they don't break up as much in the pot.

YYK

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Re: I Tried to Save Money on Groceries and Ended Up Poisoning Myself
« Reply #41 on: March 20, 2019, 11:59:23 AM »
I knew this was a problem with kidney beans but I didn't know other beans had this toxin as well. I've been eating dry beans that are put directly into the crockpot without soaking for several years and haven't had any problems. Though I typically only eat pinto or black beans which don't seem to have significant quantities of the toxin.

Chranstronaut

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Re: I Tried to Save Money on Groceries and Ended Up Poisoning Myself
« Reply #42 on: March 20, 2019, 01:03:38 PM »
I used can beans. Not as cheap as the bags of raw but whatever.

same.

Also, you should rinse your quinoa, but I don't think it'll poison you.

OtherJen

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Re: I Tried to Save Money on Groceries and Ended Up Poisoning Myself
« Reply #43 on: March 20, 2019, 08:14:21 PM »
I used can beans. Not as cheap as the bags of raw but whatever.

same.

Also, you should rinse your quinoa, but I don't think it'll poison you.

Yep. It contains saponin, a natural detergent that needs to be rinsed off. It won’t cause permanent damage, but it can temporarily damage the intestinal lining and cause discomfort.

ender

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Re: I Tried to Save Money on Groceries and Ended Up Poisoning Myself
« Reply #44 on: March 21, 2019, 06:23:31 AM »
Wow, TIL that you need to prepare beans in a specific way.

wenchsenior

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Re: I Tried to Save Money on Groceries and Ended Up Poisoning Myself
« Reply #45 on: March 21, 2019, 07:49:24 AM »
Wow, TIL that you need to prepare beans in a specific way.

Yup, I had no idea either, and have several times cooked beans slow and low in a crock pot.  Guess I got lucky. Won't be doing that again.

OtherJen

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Re: I Tried to Save Money on Groceries and Ended Up Poisoning Myself
« Reply #46 on: March 21, 2019, 08:16:15 AM »
Wow, TIL that you need to prepare beans in a specific way.

Yup, I had no idea either, and have several times cooked beans slow and low in a crock pot.  Guess I got lucky. Won't be doing that again.

If your crockpot gets hot enough to boil, the beans will be fine.

ender

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Re: I Tried to Save Money on Groceries and Ended Up Poisoning Myself
« Reply #47 on: March 21, 2019, 08:20:08 AM »
Wow, TIL that you need to prepare beans in a specific way.

Yup, I had no idea either, and have several times cooked beans slow and low in a crock pot.  Guess I got lucky. Won't be doing that again.

If your crockpot gets hot enough to boil, the beans will be fine.

Ah, this is why - we normally have bubbling in our crock pot (which is close enough to boiling it must count).

GuitarStv

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Re: I Tried to Save Money on Groceries and Ended Up Poisoning Myself
« Reply #48 on: March 21, 2019, 08:20:29 AM »
Wow, TIL that you need to prepare beans in a specific way.

Yup, I had no idea either, and have several times cooked beans slow and low in a crock pot.  Guess I got lucky. Won't be doing that again.

It depends on the kind of bean too.  Some beans are fine in the crock pot.  Not kidney beans.

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Re: I Tried to Save Money on Groceries and Ended Up Poisoning Myself
« Reply #49 on: March 21, 2019, 08:42:20 AM »
Wow, TIL that you need to prepare beans in a specific way.

Yup, I had no idea either, and have several times cooked beans slow and low in a crock pot.  Guess I got lucky. Won't be doing that again.

If your crockpot gets hot enough to boil, the beans will be fine.

Ah, this is why - we normally have bubbling in our crock pot (which is close enough to boiling it must count).

The bubbles are the definition of boiling: enough water is being heated up to transition out of its liquid state and into a gas to cause a bubble to form, and rise to the surface, and escape. A rolling boil is when the whole liquid gets into a pattern of rising to the surface and then being pushed out of the way by the heated water coming up from beneath. If what you're seeing is tiny bubbles rising independently to the surface, what you have is a simmer. A simmer is definitely a kind of boiling but it does differ from the rolling boil and is a lower temperature that cooks more slowly.

For most recipes that aren't candy, a simmer is sufficient. It's definitely how people cook beans and rice although the preferred way is to boil the water and then reduce the boil to a simmer. (Rice cookers cook by simmering and do not appear to achieve a rolling boil at all.)

At higher altitudes water reaches the boiling point at a lower temperature because of the higher air pressure, so people adjust by cooking their jams, jellies and other rolling-boil foods a little bit longer. (Incidentally, the temperature can become much higher for foods that aren't water-- a roux is called "Cajun napalm" for a reason and a burn from half a teaspoon of boiling sugar can be serious whereas the same amount of boiling water is mildly annoying at worst).

In the specific case of a crockpot, the kind that will boil your beans (if left on long enough at the high setting) generally has a smaller top surface area (where heat is lost), effective insulating walls (to keep heat in), and a larger and more efficient heating element on the bottom. The crockpot also has to be left on long enough to reach that boiling point. Of my two crockpots, the smaller one can achieve a nice rolling boil even when full, because the physics are right. The larger one can simmer, but it seldom breaks into a full boil even if left on overnight.

/kitchen-physics