Author Topic: Spending $60/hr on air conditioning... for 1 person  (Read 2334 times)

Raeon

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Spending $60/hr on air conditioning... for 1 person
« on: May 29, 2019, 09:56:34 PM »
Went down an internet rabbit hole on mining trucks and found this little gem I thought you'd all enjoy...

Quote
"This information is very valuable for a project I am working on to reduce fuel usage in ultra class trucks. However, does anyone have info for these truck for fuel usage when idling? In Western Australia we run the trucks continually to keep the air conditioning running. This can be up to 2 hours per day, every day. In 5 years, a single truck that uses 60 litres per hour on idle can use more than 200,000 litres of diesel just to run the air conditioning. Any information or if you could point me in the direction of where I might find this info will be gratefully accepted."

60*$1.50/l (current avg cost in AUS)= $90/hr aus= ~$60/hr USD.

Kudos to them for trying to tackle the problem I guess, but how the hell was it ever allowed in the first place?  That was posted in 2014, hopefully there's a solution by now. Dear god.


AMandM

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Re: Spending $60/hr on air conditioning... for 1 person
« Reply #1 on: May 30, 2019, 10:30:22 AM »
60 litres per hour on idle?  Really?  If it gets 5 miles per gallon, it would still only use less than 40 litres per hour driving at 50 mph. Surely it uses less when idling.

Or am I just showing my ignorance of how much fuel mining trucks use?

CNM

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Re: Spending $60/hr on air conditioning... for 1 person
« Reply #2 on: May 30, 2019, 11:49:02 AM »
I could see that the expense is chalked up to whatever the Australian equivalent of OSHA is.  From what I understand, Western Australia can get pretty hot.  If an employee truck driver were to get overheated or be at risk for overheating, it might be a much more expensive proposition to deal with those claims/injuries than it is to keep the A/C running.

Davnasty

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Re: Spending $60/hr on air conditioning... for 1 person
« Reply #3 on: May 30, 2019, 12:29:32 PM »
But there must be some sort of portable alternative that could be rigged up to cool the cabin at a significant energy savings.

Also worth considering how and why the trucks end up idling. Is it a few minutes here and there or do they park and wait to be loaded for longer stretches?

Davnasty

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Re: Spending $60/hr on air conditioning... for 1 person
« Reply #4 on: May 30, 2019, 12:30:56 PM »
60 litres per hour on idle?  Really?  If it gets 5 miles per gallon, it would still only use less than 40 litres per hour driving at 50 mph. Surely it uses less when idling.

Or am I just showing my ignorance of how much fuel mining trucks use?

The poster was asking for fuel usage info so they may have just been throwing out a number.

On the other hand, I think this is the type of truck they're talking about:


ChpBstrd

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Re: Spending $60/hr on air conditioning... for 1 person
« Reply #5 on: May 30, 2019, 12:32:13 PM »
Sounds like a business opportunity! I bet locomotives are in a similar situation. I see them idling all the time.

Raeon

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Re: Spending $60/hr on air conditioning... for 1 person
« Reply #6 on: May 30, 2019, 08:05:44 PM »
But there must be some sort of portable alternative that could be rigged up to cool the cabin at a significant energy savings.

Also worth considering how and why the trucks end up idling. Is it a few minutes here and there or do they park and wait to be loaded for longer stretches?

I was thinking they could add an auxiliary battery that runs in-cab climate control. Considering those trucks are made to haul 400 tons and cost $5m a piece, this would be a no brainer and not affect the cost or hauling capacity in any meaningful manner.  Their fuel economy really is that bad from what I've read.  5 mpg would be a pipe dream. Long haul tractor trailers get about that while loaded, and they weigh about 1/8th of one of these loaded and aren't driving on rough dirt roads at sub-optimal speeds. I don't think he was exaggerating the fuel consumption.

As for the necessity of AC, it can't really be avoided in a pit mine in W. Australia. It's unbearably hot. The cab of the truck could hit lethal (heatstroke inducing) temperatures if the windows were closed in that environment. 

Either way, it really wasn't meant as something to overthink. Just one of those interesting useless tidbits of info I thought would entertain some folks.

bacchi

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Re: Spending $60/hr on air conditioning... for 1 person
« Reply #7 on: May 30, 2019, 08:29:45 PM »
I was thinking they could add an auxiliary battery that runs in-cab climate control. Considering those trucks are made to haul 400 tons and cost $5m a piece, this would be a no brainer and not affect the cost or hauling capacity in any meaningful manner.  Their fuel economy really is that bad from what I've read.  5 mpg would be a pipe dream. Long haul tractor trailers get about that while loaded, and they weigh about 1/8th of one of these loaded and aren't driving on rough dirt roads at sub-optimal speeds. I don't think he was exaggerating the fuel consumption.

Or a small generator attached to a fancy window unit. It's silly to idle a 100L (or whatever) engine just to cool a cab.

Just Joe

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Re: Spending $60/hr on air conditioning... for 1 person
« Reply #8 on: May 31, 2019, 07:05:46 AM »
Went down an internet rabbit hole on mining trucks and found this little gem I thought you'd all enjoy...

Quote
"This information is very valuable for a project I am working on to reduce fuel usage in ultra class trucks. However, does anyone have info for these truck for fuel usage when idling? In Western Australia we run the trucks continually to keep the air conditioning running. This can be up to 2 hours per day, every day. In 5 years, a single truck that uses 60 litres per hour on idle can use more than 200,000 litres of diesel just to run the air conditioning. Any information or if you could point me in the direction of where I might find this info will be gratefully accepted."

60*$1.50/l (current avg cost in AUS)= $90/hr aus= ~$60/hr USD.

Kudos to them for trying to tackle the problem I guess, but how the hell was it ever allowed in the first place?  That was posted in 2014, hopefully there's a solution by now. Dear god.

But remember - those VW cars and "dieselgate"...

VW should have never lied but in the big picture of things, those cars are a drop in the bucket compared to mining, shipping and big agriculture. Years ago I was part of a military operation that consumed more fuel in a few days for four vehicles than I've consumed in decades of driving. 

VW needed to be penalized but that's why I never got my knickers in a twist over the pollution volumes.
« Last Edit: May 31, 2019, 07:07:35 AM by Just Joe »

Just Joe

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Re: Spending $60/hr on air conditioning... for 1 person
« Reply #9 on: May 31, 2019, 07:12:08 AM »
Or a small generator attached to a fancy window unit. It's silly to idle a 100L (or whatever) engine just to cool a cab.

That's what I was thinking too. One of those Honda EU-series quiet generators or similar. The Honda generator is $4500 retail. An RV a/c unit would run between $750 and $1K retail.

AMandM

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Re: Spending $60/hr on air conditioning... for 1 person
« Reply #10 on: May 31, 2019, 08:32:24 AM »
Either way, it really wasn't meant as something to overthink. Just one of those interesting useless tidbits of info I thought would entertain some folks.

It did, thank you!  I love coming up against whole areas of expertise that I'm totally oblivious to on a day-to-day basis. Like the time I was waiting for my mechanic and all the waiting room magazines were about pumps.

Syonyk

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Re: Spending $60/hr on air conditioning... for 1 person
« Reply #11 on: June 04, 2019, 12:34:09 PM »
Sounds like a business opportunity! I bet locomotives are in a similar situation. I see them idling all the time.

On a locomotive, one of the purposes of the engine idling is to keep the brake system pressurized - it will almost certainly have some small leaks.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lac-M%C3%A9gantic_rail_disaster

JLee

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Re: Spending $60/hr on air conditioning... for 1 person
« Reply #12 on: June 04, 2019, 12:55:10 PM »
60 litres per hour on idle?  Really?  If it gets 5 miles per gallon, it would still only use less than 40 litres per hour driving at 50 mph. Surely it uses less when idling.

Or am I just showing my ignorance of how much fuel mining trucks use?

5 miles per gallon? haha.

One engine out of a Caterpillar C175-20 (the engine in Cat's largest mining truck) used as a generator can make enough power for 350 homes: http://www.trucktrend.com/cool-trucks/1411-caterpillar-c175-20-diesel-engine-by-the-numbers

They're big!

For some context, the maximum total weight for any road-going vehicle in the US (semi trucks/trailer combinations, etc) is 80,000 lbs, or 40 tons. Just one of of these trucks has a payload of 400 tons. The BelAZ 75710 is even bigger, with a 496 ton payload capacity (and an empty weight of 793,664 lbs, or 396 tons) and a total loaded maximum weight of ~893 tons, or 1,785,664 lbs (or more than 22 of the heaviest vehicles allowed on the roads in the USA).
« Last Edit: June 04, 2019, 12:59:43 PM by JLee »

Syonyk

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Re: Spending $60/hr on air conditioning... for 1 person
« Reply #13 on: June 04, 2019, 01:35:42 PM »
Better check your oil, though - with 178.3 gallons, wouldn't want to be a quart low.

The 175-16 has a BSFC of 0.337 lbs/bhp-hr, which is actually quite respectable.