Author Topic: I can't do math, so I wrote a public letter to my CEO and get myself fired!  (Read 77576 times)

Gondolin

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 571
  • Location: Northern VA
Re: I can't do math, so I wrote a public letter to my CEO and get myself fired!
« Reply #200 on: February 27, 2016, 11:50:14 AM »
Quote
But if they don't want to create (even more than they already have) a city that is a monoculture of rich, elite tech workers -not to mention no families or children - then there needs to be action in either the government or private sector to make sure that workers can support themselves in the city. And there needs to be housing policies that bring down the cost of housing.

But if the local municipalities approve new development projects and stop artificially constraining the available housing in the Bay Area, all the local property owners will only be able to realize x4 appreciation on the value of their holdings instead of x8! That would be just tragic (/sarcasm).

shelivesthedream

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 4888
  • Location: London, UK
Re: I can't do math, so I wrote a public letter to my CEO and get myself fired!
« Reply #201 on: February 27, 2016, 02:49:57 PM »
This girl had a very good reason for being afraid to live with other people btw.

Quote
http://www.cracked.com/personal-experiences-1374-7-things-i-learned-as-accomplice-to-mass-murder.html

There is always more to the story than meets the eye.  No wonder she couldn't count on her family to help her.  Jesus.

OK, wow, that is one hell of an intense backstory. However... I get now that her family really could not help her out, but you can't run around crying "My mother aided and abetted a murder gang when I was ten" for EVERYTHING that ever happens to you. Is she going to be complaining about that stuff when she's 60 and gets a parking ticket? I know sod all about SF but found three studio apartments from $700 on Craigslist in about ten seconds flat, and several 1BRs for $800.

monstermonster

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 4307
  • Age: 32
  • Location: The People's Republic of Portland (Oregon)
Re: I can't do math, so I wrote a public letter to my CEO and get myself fired!
« Reply #202 on: February 27, 2016, 06:00:03 PM »
This girl had a very good reason for being afraid to live with other people btw.

Quote
http://www.cracked.com/personal-experiences-1374-7-things-i-learned-as-accomplice-to-mass-murder.html

There is always more to the story than meets the eye.  No wonder she couldn't count on her family to help her.  Jesus.

OK, wow, that is one hell of an intense backstory. However... I get now that her family really could not help her out, but you can't run around crying "My mother aided and abetted a murder gang when I was ten" for EVERYTHING that ever happens to you. Is she going to be complaining about that stuff when she's 60 and gets a parking ticket? I know sod all about SF but found three studio apartments from $700 on Craigslist in about ten seconds flat, and several 1BRs for $800.
Lol. Those are likely either scam ads (they just walk away with the housing application fees, a common scam in SF) or are not actually located in SF (located in Fresno but listed on SF CL  - which is 200 miles away). The median 1-bedroom rent in SF right now is $2500. $800 isn't really  a thing and hasn't been for a long time.

Since you don't know about SF, here's some context for why those apartments are likely to be impossible to get or aren't real, from SF's local paper.

cloudsail

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 553
Re: I can't do math, so I wrote a public letter to my CEO and get myself fired!
« Reply #203 on: February 27, 2016, 11:00:00 PM »
All this talk about living costs in SF is only valid if that's where this Talia person is from. But it's not. She actually went into debt to move to the most expensive metropolitan area in the country for a customer service job. That fact, in and of itself, should make her completely unqualified to talk about anything to do with COL because clearly she is totally clueless about money.

What, she wants to be close to her dad? My MIL is dying of cancer. Is my husband moving to Vancouver BC to be close to her? No, because it's an incredibly expensive city without high paying jobs. Rational people think before making big life decisions.

Yes, there is a housing problem in SF. But if more affordable housing gets created, I really hope it doesn't get taken advantage of by people like Talia who should never have moved to SF in the first place.

shelivesthedream

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 4888
  • Location: London, UK
Re: I can't do math, so I wrote a public letter to my CEO and get myself fired!
« Reply #204 on: February 28, 2016, 02:44:52 AM »
This girl had a very good reason for being afraid to live with other people btw.

Quote
http://www.cracked.com/personal-experiences-1374-7-things-i-learned-as-accomplice-to-mass-murder.html

There is always more to the story than meets the eye.  No wonder she couldn't count on her family to help her.  Jesus.

OK, wow, that is one hell of an intense backstory. However... I get now that her family really could not help her out, but you can't run around crying "My mother aided and abetted a murder gang when I was ten" for EVERYTHING that ever happens to you. Is she going to be complaining about that stuff when she's 60 and gets a parking ticket? I know sod all about SF but found three studio apartments from $700 on Craigslist in about ten seconds flat, and several 1BRs for $800.
Lol. Those are likely either scam ads (they just walk away with the housing application fees, a common scam in SF) or are not actually located in SF (located in Fresno but listed on SF CL  - which is 200 miles away). The median 1-bedroom rent in SF right now is $2500. $800 isn't really  a thing and hasn't been for a long time.

Since you don't know about SF, here's some context for why those apartments are likely to be impossible to get or aren't real, from SF's local paper.

Fair enough, maybe I chose a bad example. But my point still stands: you cannot blame everything that goes badly for you ever on one childhood incident, even if it was a really awful one.

Nederstash

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 376
Re: I can't do math, so I wrote a public letter to my CEO and get myself fired!
« Reply #205 on: February 28, 2016, 04:12:33 AM »
This girl had a very good reason for being afraid to live with other people btw.

Quote
http://www.cracked.com/personal-experiences-1374-7-things-i-learned-as-accomplice-to-mass-murder.html

There is always more to the story than meets the eye.  No wonder she couldn't count on her family to help her.  Jesus.

OK, wow, that is one hell of an intense backstory. However... I get now that her family really could not help her out, but you can't run around crying "My mother aided and abetted a murder gang when I was ten" for EVERYTHING that ever happens to you. Is she going to be complaining about that stuff when she's 60 and gets a parking ticket? I know sod all about SF but found three studio apartments from $700 on Craigslist in about ten seconds flat, and several 1BRs for $800.
Lol. Those are likely either scam ads (they just walk away with the housing application fees, a common scam in SF) or are not actually located in SF (located in Fresno but listed on SF CL  - which is 200 miles away). The median 1-bedroom rent in SF right now is $2500. $800 isn't really  a thing and hasn't been for a long time.

Since you don't know about SF, here's some context for why those apartments are likely to be impossible to get or aren't real, from SF's local paper.

Fair enough, maybe I chose a bad example. But my point still stands: you cannot blame everything that goes badly for you ever on one childhood incident, even if it was a really awful one.

I agree. The beauty of maths is that it's completely neutral - no matter your personal story, if the math doesn't add up, you need to go back to the drawing board. You can't make 1 and 1 equal 3 because you'd really like that and geez, you're such a nice person with a terrible past. Sorry, it still equals 2. If you want 3, who am I to argue with your wishes, but you need to come up with the extra 1 yourself!

golden1

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1544
  • Location: MA
Re: I can't do math, so I wrote a public letter to my CEO and get myself fired!
« Reply #206 on: February 28, 2016, 07:47:44 AM »
If you can read that story and still think the girl is a worthless entitled piece of shit then you have the problem, not her. 

Imagine realizing at age 10 that you cannot trust anyone, not even your parents.  Imagine what that does to your world view and your decision making process.  Does the world owe her a living? No, of course not.  But does it make her decisions more understandable.  Absolutely. 

But of course, you can't sleep at night unless you defend your petty behavior so enjoy yourselves.  Enjoy the world that you have created where you have to drag everyone down to preserve your own self esteem  - it's a pretty shitty one. 

[MOD EDIT: Please stop the personal attacks.  Your middle paragraph was a valid point.  The rest was unnecessary, detracted from your message, and broke the forum rules.]
« Last Edit: February 28, 2016, 09:20:49 AM by arebelspy »

monstermonster

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 4307
  • Age: 32
  • Location: The People's Republic of Portland (Oregon)
Re: I can't do math, so I wrote a public letter to my CEO and get myself fired!
« Reply #207 on: February 28, 2016, 09:17:18 AM »
If you can read that story and still think the girl is a worthless entitled piece of shit then you have the problem, not her. 
+1,000,000

desk_jockey

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 242
Re: I can't do math, so I wrote a public letter to my CEO and get myself fired!
« Reply #208 on: February 28, 2016, 09:37:03 AM »
OK, wow, that is one hell of an intense backstory. However... I get now that her family really could not help her out, but you can't run around crying "My mother aided and abetted a murder gang when I was ten" for EVERYTHING that ever happens to you. Is she going to be complaining about that stuff when she's 60 and gets a parking ticket?

I re-read the original story.  She complained about a lot of things, but never once did she bring up her mother or the murder gang, not as an excuse, nor crying about it, nor in any form.
 
Reading her infamous blog post now while understanding her back story gives it a lot less flavor of entitlement and a lot more of disillusionment.   I can imagine a kid working through high school and college with the overly simplified thought that “if I can just graduate from university, everything will be perfect”.

In the Cracked article Talia comes across as self-aware and presents a clear reflection of the history.  That didn’t come across in her Yelp post.  The writing does make a difference with how her blog post is perceived.

It can take many years for someone to get over traumatic events in their childhood, so we shouldn’t expect her to have it all worked out by the time she’s 25.  Everyone is responsible for their own life, and this is not an attempt to make excuses for her.  Her post was still the wrong format to express her disillusionment, frustration, or entitlement.    When she does get her shit together, however, in my opinion she will be more admirable than those of us who didn’t have such difficulties to overcome.

dragoncar

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 8833
  • Registered member
Re: I can't do math, so I wrote a public letter to my CEO and get myself fired!
« Reply #209 on: February 28, 2016, 01:01:03 PM »
All this talk about living costs in SF is only valid if that's where this Talia person is from. But it's not. She actually went into debt to move to the most expensive metropolitan area in the country for a customer service job. That fact, in and of itself, should make her completely unqualified to talk about anything to do with COL because clearly she is totally clueless about money.

What, she wants to be close to her dad? My MIL is dying of cancer. Is my husband moving to Vancouver BC to be close to her? No, because it's an incredibly expensive city without high paying jobs. Rational people think before making big life decisions.

Yes, there is a housing problem in SF. But if more affordable housing gets created, I really hope it doesn't get taken advantage of by people like Talia who should never have moved to SF in the first place.

It's hard for people to understand, but to the degree that everyone has a fundamental right to housing (which I personally believe in, in a general sense) you don't have the right to live wherever you choose.  This is why I oppose putting below market rate housing in San Francisco-- it really just drives up the price of market rate pricing and creates a lottery system for the service workers.

Plenty of people are doing fine in the Bay Area, despite the ridiculous prices.  I wasn't entirely joking earlier when i said some companies pay in hype.  Certain companies look so good on your resume, and expect such unwavering dedication from employees, that they pay less than competitors (eg Apple).  And there is certainly a kind of job satisfaction to be had by drinking the company kool aid.  You may be a bit delusional, but you have a sense of purpose and fulfillment.

LeRainDrop

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1841
Re: I can't do math, so I wrote a public letter to my CEO and get myself fired!
« Reply #210 on: February 28, 2016, 06:24:38 PM »
But my point still stands: you cannot blame everything that goes badly for you ever on one childhood incident, even if it was a really awful one.

I agree. The beauty of maths is that it's completely neutral - no matter your personal story, if the math doesn't add up, you need to go back to the drawing board. You can't make 1 and 1 equal 3 because you'd really like that and geez, you're such a nice person with a terrible past. Sorry, it still equals 2. If you want 3, who am I to argue with your wishes, but you need to come up with the extra 1 yourself!

Yes!  Very good way of putting it, Nederstash.

Sid Hoffman

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 743
  • Location: Southwest USA
Re: I can't do math, so I wrote a public letter to my CEO and get myself fired!
« Reply #211 on: February 28, 2016, 10:41:38 PM »
Yes, there is a housing problem in SF. But if more affordable housing gets created, I really hope it doesn't get taken advantage of by people like Talia who should never have moved to SF in the first place.

Either way, it's a San Francisco problem, so it's up to the mayor, city counsel, and voters of San Francisco to fix it.  If the city needs to enforce rent controls, then that's what they need to do.  If they need to pass a redevelopment ordinance to provide higher density, taller apartment building to increase the total number of units in the city, then that's up to the city to decide.  If they need to raise their minimum wage again to something even higher, then again, only the city of SF has the authority to do that.  Any way you slice it, if there's a problem, it's up to the government officials and voters of San Francisco to fix it.  There's nothing that any one of us not living there can do to change their situation.

TheGrimSqueaker

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 2200
  • Location: A desert wasteland, where none but the weird survive
  • www.theliveinlandlord.com
Re: I can't do math, so I wrote a public letter to my CEO and get myself fired!
« Reply #212 on: February 28, 2016, 11:40:01 PM »
OK, wow, that is one hell of an intense backstory. However... I get now that her family really could not help her out, but you can't run around crying "My mother aided and abetted a murder gang when I was ten" for EVERYTHING that ever happens to you. Is she going to be complaining about that stuff when she's 60 and gets a parking ticket?

I re-read the original story.  She complained about a lot of things, but never once did she bring up her mother or the murder gang, not as an excuse, nor crying about it, nor in any form.
 
Reading her infamous blog post now while understanding her back story gives it a lot less flavor of entitlement and a lot more of disillusionment.   I can imagine a kid working through high school and college with the overly simplified thought that “if I can just graduate from university, everything will be perfect”.

In the Cracked article Talia comes across as self-aware and presents a clear reflection of the history.  That didn’t come across in her Yelp post.  The writing does make a difference with how her blog post is perceived.

It can take many years for someone to get over traumatic events in their childhood, so we shouldn’t expect her to have it all worked out by the time she’s 25.  Everyone is responsible for their own life, and this is not an attempt to make excuses for her.  Her post was still the wrong format to express her disillusionment, frustration, or entitlement.    When she does get her shit together, however, in my opinion she will be more admirable than those of us who didn’t have such difficulties to overcome.

I read the Cracked article thoroughly. Assuming it was written by the same person and also verified and fact checked by Cracked (which, let's face it, doesn't happen all the time even in other forms of media), I see why the author might have trust issues. What I don't see is any automatic connection between those trust issues and sharing an apartment with someone else. Her mother's bad decision making wasn't caused by sharing accommodations.

Let's suppose for the sake of argument that the author had trust issues that caused her to reject possible lodging compromises that required selecting a roommate before committing to the move. Would those same trust issues not also have caused trouble during that 3-month period after starting to work, when she was supposedly looking for a roommate? I'd personally think that trust issues like that would be permanent, and possibly grounds for declaring all roommates a no-go, forever, which would require a person to make compromises such as not accepting work in a high COL area. Yet none of this is consistent with her description of having moved to SF expecting to find a roommate.

Also, nowhere in her open letter does the original author refer to anything in her past that rules out having a roommate. What she actually wrote attempts to justify living alone simply because she's "a young woman", as though her age and gender entitled her to a higher standard of living than, say, people of a different age or gender but with the same income.

ender

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 4946
Re: I can't do math, so I wrote a public letter to my CEO and get myself fired!
« Reply #213 on: February 29, 2016, 05:33:43 AM »
I've had roommates continuously since graduating high school and that has made me far less entitled overall because I've had to work with and live with people (some whom I got along great with and others whom I didn't).

It's a small thing but still helpful in the process of realizing you aren't the center of the universe.

Cathy

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1046
Re: I can't do math, so I wrote a public letter to my CEO and get myself fired!
« Reply #214 on: February 29, 2016, 08:21:06 AM »
Also, nowhere in her open letter does the original author refer to anything in her past that rules out having a roommate. What she actually wrote attempts to justify living alone simply because she's "a young woman", as though her age and gender entitled her to a higher standard of living than, say, people of a different age or gender but with the same income.

Ms. Jane's letter did not contain persuasive or rigorous arguments, but I don't think that justifies the level of personal attacks that she has received in this thread. As I said in my earlier post, she made a mistake in moving to an expensive area to work a minimum-wage job. In my view, it's not necessary to criticise her character or dissect her life further beyond that.

It's really not surprising that she didn't describe her past in the letter. It was very brave of her to even write about it at all in that cracked.com article. It makes sense to me that she might be comfortable complaining about what she perceives as an unduly low level of pay without being comfortable incorporating references to her childhood. Speaking for myself only, I rarely include any personal information in my posts on the forum, even when it would be relevant to the topic, because I prefer to focus on the merits of the arguments at hand, rather than making things about me. And sure, to some extent Ms. Jane's letter was about her, but she was really just using herself as a stand-in for all people that she considers to be getting an unfair shake in life at the hands of successful capitalists; she intentionally omitted references to what makes her unique.
« Last Edit: February 29, 2016, 08:25:39 AM by Cathy »

LeRainDrop

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1841
Re: I can't do math, so I wrote a public letter to my CEO and get myself fired!
« Reply #215 on: February 29, 2016, 10:18:23 AM »
I read the Cracked article thoroughly. Assuming it was written by the same person and also verified and fact checked by Cracked (which, let's face it, doesn't happen all the time even in other forms of media), I see why the author might have trust issues.

The Cracked article lists Talia Jane as a co-author.  The first-listed author is Robert Evans ("My name is Robert Evans. I'm an editorial manager at Cracked and I run the personal experience article team. I can be reached at revanswriter@gmail.com.")

It's really not surprising that she didn't describe her past in the letter. It was very brave of her to even write about it at all in that cracked.com article.

I wonder, was it very brave of her to write the Cracked article, or was it an attempt to capitalize on her experience with hopes of jump-starting her writing career?  Perhaps both.  Can't fault her for that.  It seems that Talia now has at least two pretty sensational articles under her belt.
« Last Edit: February 29, 2016, 10:20:29 AM by LeRainDrop »

vivophoenix

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 430
what gets my goat is now,  this young, single, educated white woman gets to be the face of the living wage(poverty)(housing crisis) debate.

this is not a new issue and this is not the end of it.

the level of attention and traction being garnered by, literally, one of the most able-bodied, and fortunate groups of people in the literal world is sickening.

people in all sorts of industries have ALWAYS worked for low wages and in poor financial situations.

its infuriating that hearing this tale of 'woe' is making people actually talk about the situation.

she has options, and choices which she refuses to avail herself of. many choices that other people cant make.

imagine if she was:

supporting a family as the sole bread winner while having to pay childcare

elderly and thus waay less likely to make more money than this till death

didnt have a college degree, or even a HS diploma.

formerly incarcerated

caring for someone who is ill

have the shitty insurance that typically comes with low paying jobs. ( i have a well paying job and my copay still isnt $20)

not have access to public transit.

had to deal with not being a native english speaker

deal with some sort of racial prejudice.


i wonder if that CVS worker who gave her gas money knew she moved her to meme about delivery food and lived in a 2.5k/month apartment. sounds like she should have been given a job application



Dictionary Time

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 86
Im not here to defend the mass consumptionism of the millennials but let us not act like the stuff I mention is new to this generation. One today cannot attend college without going into debt unless they have a substantial amount of support from home or from the government and/or from the university in the form of scholarships. In the past one could of worked a part time job in the summer and pay a substantial amount of their tuition while today that is not possible unless you attend a cheap public universitiy like I did.

As for the stuff I mentioned i.e. going out for dinner a few times a month, yearly vacations, car, home etc these were the standard for your average middle class family in the United States. Today to afford such luxuries one needs to make much more than the median household income of around $55...in most areas.


My husband graduated in 1985, it took him 7 years to graduate from a public, low-cost university. He worked his way through community college and worked to make money to pay his way through Western Illinois. He never failed anything, never even changed his major. It just was not that easy to work to pay your way back then as it is being portrayed. He worked hard and the opportunity cost for all those years was high.

I got accepted to the University of Chicago, but didn't get much aid, and I looked at $25K a year and multiplied by 4 to get $100. I knew that there was no way that we could do that. So I went to state school. I got a lot of merit aid, so it didn't take me 7 years, but I'll always remember that sticker shock.

When I was growing up in the 80s, we never took a vacation that didn't involve staying with relatives. We did own our house and have 2 cars. We had two parents working, we rarely went out to eat. I only remember going out when my grandparents came to town and they would treat. Yes, we had a house, and cars.

This is all anecdotal, I realize. But when you're painting with such a broad brush, you miss some detail.

zephyr911

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3628
  • Age: 41
  • Location: Northern Alabama
  • I'm just happy to be here. \m/ ^_^ \m/
    • Pinhook Development LLC
On the bright side, somebody took screen shots of all the things she managed to make out of that bag of rice she said she lived on:

http://thatsalotofrice.com/

She must be the best cook in the universe to have made all those things out of that one bag of rice she said she's starving on.
Ermahgerd, I laughed so hard.
I'm a big fan of whiskey and make about 6x her pay, with massively lower COL, and would still be hard pressed to buy top shelf, let alone pay extra for someone to bring it to me. And that retort! Hahaha... I agree that the big picture includes very real and legitimate concerns about wages and COL in some locations, but she is a terrible case study. She seems to delight in not wanting to work too hard for success.

« Last Edit: March 02, 2016, 01:10:42 PM by zephyr911 »

Paul der Krake

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 4663
  • Age: 11
  • Location: USA
Putting a reminder in my calendar to look where she is 6 months from now.

Would you please add to your calendar reminder to come post an update in this thread?  ;-)
Update time!

So Talia has moved no New York, to be a comedian. She posts around 1337 tweets per day. Is this how normal people use twitter? I don't know, but I can't look away.

There are regular tweets about not having a job, but it's really hard to follow.

https://twitter.com/itsa_talia

arebelspy

  • Administrator
  • Senior Mustachian
  • *****
  • Posts: 28112
  • Age: -999
  • Location: Seattle, WA
Interesting.

Might as well edit that calendar entry to be next Feb and check in at the 1 yr mark.  :D
We are two former teachers who accumulated a bunch of real estate, retired at 29, spent some time traveling the world full time and are now settled with three kids.
If you want to know more about us, or how we did that, or see lots of pictures, this Business Insider profile tells our story pretty well.
We (rarely) blog at AdventuringAlong.com. Check out our Now page to see what we're up to currently.

Nederstash

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 376
Putting a reminder in my calendar to look where she is 6 months from now.

Would you please add to your calendar reminder to come post an update in this thread?  ;-)
Update time!

So Talia has moved no New York, to be a comedian. She posts around 1337 tweets per day. Is this how normal people use twitter? I don't know, but I can't look away.

There are regular tweets about not having a job, but it's really hard to follow.

https://twitter.com/itsa_talia

Amazing. I don't care that it's Monday, I'm having popcorn while reading her twitter. "I like how the old trains vibrate on my hemorrhoids". Her writing skills have certainly... developed.

LeRainDrop

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1841
Wow, that girl is BITTER!  Thanks for getting us the update, Paul.

monstermonster

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 4307
  • Age: 32
  • Location: The People's Republic of Portland (Oregon)
She's speaking at a conference I'm going to in a few weeks!

LeRainDrop

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1841
She's speaking at a conference I'm going to in a few weeks!

In that case, you are our assigned reporter.  Please let us know if she says anything particularly laugh-worthy or something that's surprisingly wise!

Sid Hoffman

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 743
  • Location: Southwest USA
She's speaking at a conference I'm going to in a few weeks!

Which topic is the conference on?

1) How women are oppressed by men
2) How millennials are oppressed by older generations
3) How income inequality oppresses artists
4) How the nation's "pay for work" economic system oppresses unemployed people

Because those are conferences I would expect this woman to speak at.

monstermonster

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 4307
  • Age: 32
  • Location: The People's Republic of Portland (Oregon)
1) How women are oppressed by men

3) How income inequality oppresses artists
It's a conference for independent artists who make their living using the internet. In the past, they ended up having a lot of speakers who are women who are prominent on the internet talking about getting rape threats/doxxed/otherwise violently threatened. So I wonder if she's going to talk about that, since that happened to her.

I'm intrigued to hear what she has to say - at the very least, it might help me given that I teach personal finance to
 millennial college students. :-P

Goldielocks

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 6538
  • Location: BC
She's speaking at a conference I'm going to in a few weeks!

Which topic is the conference on?


4) How the nation's "pay for work" economic system oppresses unemployed people


Clever!  My vote is for #4.

arebelspy

  • Administrator
  • Senior Mustachian
  • *****
  • Posts: 28112
  • Age: -999
  • Location: Seattle, WA
It's a conference for independent artists who make their living using the internet.

Huh.  I'm really curious how she merited a speaking slot.

Can't wait for your report.  :)
We are two former teachers who accumulated a bunch of real estate, retired at 29, spent some time traveling the world full time and are now settled with three kids.
If you want to know more about us, or how we did that, or see lots of pictures, this Business Insider profile tells our story pretty well.
We (rarely) blog at AdventuringAlong.com. Check out our Now page to see what we're up to currently.

nobodyspecial

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1469
  • Location: Land above the land of the free
It's a conference for independent artists who make their living using the internet.

Huh.  I'm really curious how she merited a speaking slot.
True for very small values of "living" ?

arebelspy

  • Administrator
  • Senior Mustachian
  • *****
  • Posts: 28112
  • Age: -999
  • Location: Seattle, WA
It's a conference for independent artists who make their living using the internet.

Huh.  I'm really curious how she merited a speaking slot.
True for very small values of "living" ?

Maybe she's an example of the opposite--How to lose your living via the Internet.  ;)

We are two former teachers who accumulated a bunch of real estate, retired at 29, spent some time traveling the world full time and are now settled with three kids.
If you want to know more about us, or how we did that, or see lots of pictures, this Business Insider profile tells our story pretty well.
We (rarely) blog at AdventuringAlong.com. Check out our Now page to see what we're up to currently.

talltexan

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 2724
So I started following her (motivated by this thread), and there really is little value added.

Paul der Krake

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 4663
  • Age: 11
  • Location: USA
I like her sense of humor, just not the underlying message. But I did update my calendar entry to satisfy my voyeuristic tendencies. It's like watching a train wreck in slow motion except every other frame is some crazy person shouting at the birds.

Mr. Llama

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 9
I don't like the begging for money, but I also think it's pretty cold to pile on this girl or anyone else in a similar situation.

My angle on this is that her employer has been leading her on from the start that the pay and conditions are not so good now, but if she keeps working hard and saving them money there are better positions just around the corner. Which there probably aren't.

It's also kind of amazing to me that someone in a white collar job in one of the most expensive cities in the world is being paid about the same as my company's entry level staff in an east Asian city with very low cost of living. I don't know enough about the US to explain that one, but it sucks.

nobodyspecial

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1469
  • Location: Land above the land of the free
It's also kind of amazing to me that someone in a white collar job in one of the most expensive cities in the world is being paid about the same as my company's entry level staff in an east Asian city with very low cost of living. I don't know enough about the US to explain that one, but it sucks.
Capitalism - she has no skills which make her better than anyone else at the job, she can be replaced by a million other people.
In the same city interns (students getting work experience during the vacation) are being paid more than doctors earn in many parts of europe.
Because they have valuable skills and are scarce and companies will have to compete for them when they graduate

Paul der Krake

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 4663
  • Age: 11
  • Location: USA
Lately I have been researching rents and COL in various large US cities, and I think this mentality really boils down to a misguided belief that everyone is entitled to a certain standard of living regardless of where they choose to live.

So in that person's mind, choosing to live in one of the most desirable cities on earth is no luxury, it's just part of living. It gets worse when an area suddenly gets more expensive quickly, because people who used to be able to afford it suddenly can't, and that strikes them as very unfair.

ender

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 4946
Lately I have been researching rents and COL in various large US cities, and I think this mentality really boils down to a misguided belief that everyone is entitled to a certain standard of living regardless of where they choose to live.

So in that person's mind, choosing to live in one of the most desirable cities on earth is no luxury, it's just part of living. It gets worse when an area suddenly gets more expensive quickly, because people who used to be able to afford it suddenly can't, and that strikes them as very unfair.

+1

Pretty much sums up this woman's attitude.

It's not her responsibility to pick a city she can afford to live in, it's the cities responsibility to make it affordable for her, apparently.

LeRainDrop

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1841
Lately I have been researching rents and COL in various large US cities, and I think this mentality really boils down to a misguided belief that everyone is entitled to a certain standard of living regardless of where they choose to live.

So in that person's mind, choosing to live in one of the most desirable cities on earth is no luxury, it's just part of living. It gets worse when an area suddenly gets more expensive quickly, because people who used to be able to afford it suddenly can't, and that strikes them as very unfair.

+1

Pretty much sums up this woman's attitude.

It's not her responsibility to pick a city she can afford to live in, it's the cities responsibility to make it affordable for her, apparently.

Agree.  Very well explained.

dragoncar

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 8833
  • Registered member
Lately I have been researching rents and COL in various large US cities, and I think this mentality really boils down to a misguided belief that everyone is entitled to a certain standard of living regardless of where they choose to live.

So in that person's mind, choosing to live in one of the most desirable cities on earth is no luxury, it's just part of living. It gets worse when an area suddenly gets more expensive quickly, because people who used to be able to afford it suddenly can't, and that strikes them as very unfair.

+1

Pretty much sums up this woman's attitude.

It's not her responsibility to pick a city she can afford to live in, it's the cities responsibility to make it affordable for her, apparently.

This pretty much sums up everyone's* attitude in SF.

*not literally, but so many- the people who constantly keep pushing rent control and subsidized (below market rate) housing.  Also the people who complain that $200k is just getting by because housing is so expensive, not realizing that consuming $80k of housing per year in SF is a luxury no matter how the size or finish compares to what equivalent rent would get you in Texas.

Melody

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1089
  • Age: 30
  • Location: Australia
Lately I have been researching rents and COL in various large US cities, and I think this mentality really boils down to a misguided belief that everyone is entitled to a certain standard of living regardless of where they choose to live.

So in that person's mind, choosing to live in one of the most desirable cities on earth is no luxury, it's just part of living. It gets worse when an area suddenly gets more expensive quickly, because people who used to be able to afford it suddenly can't, and that strikes them as very unfair.

+1

Pretty much sums up this woman's attitude.

It's not her responsibility to pick a city she can afford to live in, it's the cities responsibility to make it affordable for her, apparently.

Agree.  Very well explained.
Until you witness the creative heart drop out of a city. RIP Sydney. It will take a decade to get back the culture you had and lost due to your steep ascent towards the $1mn median house price.
Melbourne really didnt need more creatives. And now we have only one big cultured city in our whole country (Melbourne). That feels limiting, and its what  happens when en mass people "takes responsibility".

Sent from my SM-G900K using Tapatalk


AliEli

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 107
  • Location: Melbourne Australia
I haven't checked the location of every poster, but I get the vibe that this is a very US-centred approach to someone experiencing a financial crisis.  It's pretty shocking that anyone could be expected to live on $8.15 per hour.  I don't feel that she's anti-Mustacian or whiney, she's simply financially stressed.  Employees being paid such a low wage does seem to be something that the CEO should be aware of and is ultimately resposible for - the buck stops with the CEO, that's why they get paid the big bucks.  I feel really grateful to live in Australia, where I don't have to worry about paying to access healthcare and we have active trade unions who push for a living wage (it's not perfect, but at least companies found to be paying low wages like these ultimately tend to get outed and audited).  People working full time not able to earn a living wage is a social problem, not an individual problem.  Why are people piling on and criticising someone earning such a low wage?  Whatever your generation, $8.15 per hour is a really hard wage to have to live on in an industrialised / developed country.

marty998

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 6544
  • Location: Sydney, Oz
Agree, $8.15 is crap. Don't give me this capitalism bullshit that "this is what the market is willing to pay". Society should be able to do better than that, rather than all the wealth accruing to a handful of people who do not, for all practical purposes, need it.

If someone working full-time can't afford to live a semi decent existence, something is definitely wrong.

Until you witness the creative heart drop out of a city. RIP Sydney. It will take a decade to get back the culture you had and lost due to your steep ascent towards the $1mn median house price.
Melbourne really didnt need more creatives. And now we have only one big cultured city in our whole country (Melbourne). That feels limiting, and its what  happens when en mass people "takes responsibility".

The creative types seem to all live in inner city Surry Hills, Newtown, Marrickville and Balmain where the median is well north of $1.2 million. They seem to be doing just fine and dandy actually?

That has always surprised me actually... I understand their plight of low income, yet they still manage to afford to live in the inner city. Is it a case of rich relatives giving them a gigantic helping hand, so they can choose to do what they love rather than take a career like the rest of us?

ender

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 4946
I haven't checked the location of every poster, but I get the vibe that this is a very US-centred approach to someone experiencing a financial crisis.  It's pretty shocking that anyone could be expected to live on $8.15 per hour.  I don't feel that she's anti-Mustacian or whiney, she's simply financially stressed.  Employees being paid such a low wage does seem to be something that the CEO should be aware of and is ultimately resposible for - the buck stops with the CEO, that's why they get paid the big bucks.  I feel really grateful to live in Australia, where I don't have to worry about paying to access healthcare and we have active trade unions who push for a living wage (it's not perfect, but at least companies found to be paying low wages like these ultimately tend to get outed and audited).  People working full time not able to earn a living wage is a social problem, not an individual problem.  Why are people piling on and criticising someone earning such a low wage?  Whatever your generation, $8.15 per hour is a really hard wage to have to live on in an industrialised / developed country.

$8.15/hour after all taxes plus benefits (such as healthcare) and tons of food for a blatantly entry level job is not horribly bad for an entry level job.

It works out to be $20k/year, after tax, and that's assuming her tax forms are set correctly (which they probably aren't so she probably will receive a good sized tax refund). So basically $25k or so salary for an entry level job with benefits.

Her problem is the city, not the wage.

Gondolin

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 571
  • Location: Northern VA
Quote
It's also kind of amazing to me that someone in a white collar job in one of the most expensive cities in the world is being paid about the same as my company's entry level...

The key is that she wasn't doing a white collar job, she was very much in an entry level office help "answer phones and schedule meetings" position and was compensated accordingly. I guarantee the core of the business (aka sales, development, and technical ops) are all on large salaries or commission. Unfortunately there are plenty of semi-predatory start ups out there who lure in unemployed journalism majors to do their grunt work with promises of "join a startup! Young fun co-workers, snacks and you'll change the world from the comfort of SF! Unlimited growth as we grow!" and well, articles like this one are often the result.

MgoSam

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3643
  • Location: Minnesota
Quote
It's also kind of amazing to me that someone in a white collar job in one of the most expensive cities in the world is being paid about the same as my company's entry level...

The key is that she wasn't doing a white collar job, she was very much in an entry level office help "answer phones and schedule meetings" position and was compensated accordingly. I guarantee the core of the business (aka sales, development, and technical ops) are all on large salaries or commission. Unfortunately there are plenty of semi-predatory start ups out there who lure in unemployed journalism majors to do their grunt work with promises of "join a startup! Young fun co-workers, snacks and you'll change the world from the comfort of SF! Unlimited growth as we grow!" and well, articles like this one are often the result.

I would normally agree with you, but I feel like someone that's been a journalistic major should be aware enough to research the company to avoid predatory situations, and also check on other sources to see what living conditions are like and if they are able to afford it.

bebegirl

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 72
  • Location: Seattle
  • Sleepless in
The girl received education that is not popular in the job market. Got in debt by buying "shiny car" right before even starting her job. Moved to the most expensive area possible.

Yes, prices in San Fran are ridiculous. Same in NY that I declined 10 years ago when deciding to move to Seattle instead. And with Ukrainian education I was able to find higher salary at entry level position than this girl, thus was able to rent one bedroom apartment because I also preferred to live alone. I used public transportation instead of buying "shiny car" right away.

I would fire this girl as well.

Gondolin

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 571
  • Location: Northern VA
Quote
I would normally agree with you...

Oh, I completely agree with you, she gets no credit for falling into the trap. I was just explicating the quoted passage's question as to how a "white collar" job could pay so little.

Josiecat

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 305
The problem I have with this young lady is the bad judgement she used to call out her CEO PUBLICALLY.  If she didn't like the wage offered, she shouldn't have accepted the position.

Sid Hoffman

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 743
  • Location: Southwest USA
People working full time not able to earn a living wage is a social problem, not an individual problem.

She was in San Francisco, which means if you want to call it a social problem, then it's a San Francisco problem.  They already have their own (higher) minimum wage, and if that's not enough then it is the responsibility of the City of San Francisco to raise their minimum wage, maybe to $25-30/hour based on living costs I see there.

havregryn

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 477
  • Age: 35
  • Location: Luxembourg
  Whatever your generation, $8.15 per hour is a really hard wage to have to live on in an industrialised / developed country.

Commenting from the developed parts of Europe, I am not entirely convinced. This is, as already pointed out, after tax money and adds up to a lot more than you can earn in a similar position in pretty much any developed European country (pretty sure the only obvious exception is Switzerland, even in Luxembourg, the richest non-Switzerland around, the legal minimum wage would hover somewhere around this in after-tax money for a single person).
But it is also in (even the most socialist parts of) Europe generally unthinkable that a person in this situation (25 year old, fuzzy educational background, doing a completely unqualified job for less than a year) could live in a high cost of living city renting a one bedroom apartment for themselves + own a car.
If that is really possible in Australia I am mildly jealous (as I have like many others spent my 20s living with horrible roommates and not being able to afford all that much bang) but I felt the need to defend the Americans on this as it seems the kind, welfare focused Europe is even worse in this regard.