Author Topic: I can't do it anymore...  (Read 32049 times)

clutchy

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I can't do it anymore...
« on: January 29, 2014, 11:57:27 AM »
I just can't do it anymore.  I read this forum and it used to be interesting.  There used to be some solid advice and great ways to save some coin and keep motivated to reduce lifestyle inflation. 

but something has changed either in me or in the users here.  The level of idiocy and time wasting on such mundane and inconsequential things has gotten to me. 

I suppose I'm just not enough of a true believer or something... 

I will say that reading the blog posts have really helped me refocus and I've significantly benefited from them.  They are motivational and promote an ethos of caring and responsibility.  It's shocking to me that an ethical and moral philosophical leader can attract individuals of questionable morality.

The forum however is plagued with morally repugnant and ethically dubious individuals.  People wasting precious time on things that provide so little value or benefit.  So little savings... 
The selfish usage of social safety nets for things they were never intended; the abuse of social good to promote personal gain...

It's offensive and shameful and the anti-thesis of this site.


so that's my wall of shame post.  I've been shamed by the actions of those here and shamed by my own inability to convince others.  As with all things there are many good and ethical people on this site but from the many polls there are far too many who should not be tolerated.

/complainypants.

Phoebe

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Re: I can't do it anymore...
« Reply #1 on: January 29, 2014, 12:10:47 PM »
I'm sorry you feel that way, but you know you don't have to read the forums, right?  It's voluntary, so you can leave anytime.

You also have the option of taking what is valuable to you here and leaving the rest.  You don't need to convince other people of your beliefs, nor do you have to even read about theirs.  Just open the threads that are providing you with insight and inspiration and call it a day.

Best of luck to you,
Phoebe

BPA

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Re: I can't do it anymore...
« Reply #2 on: January 29, 2014, 12:17:51 PM »
Interesting.  I don't see much that is morally or ethically dubious in these forums.

Maybe I'm one of the jerks.  ;) 

clutchy

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Re: I can't do it anymore...
« Reply #3 on: January 29, 2014, 12:18:24 PM »
I'm sorry you feel that way, but you know you don't have to read the forums, right?  It's voluntary, so you can leave anytime.

You also have the option of taking what is valuable to you here and leaving the rest.  You don't need to convince other people of your beliefs, nor do you have to even read about theirs.  Just open the threads that are providing you with insight and inspiration and call it a day.

Best of luck to you,
Phoebe

I'm aware of that; that's why I posted it in this forum. 


I guess it just blows my mind how an ethical/moral leader can have some despicable adherents.  It doesn't make any sense....

clutchy

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Re: I can't do it anymore...
« Reply #4 on: January 29, 2014, 12:19:07 PM »
Interesting.  I don't see much that is morally or ethically dubious in these forums.

Maybe I'm one of the jerks.  ;)

I doubt it, you're Canadian :)

You'd probably be apologizing profusely at this point...

the fixer

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Re: I can't do it anymore...
« Reply #5 on: January 29, 2014, 12:21:16 PM »
I was curious so I went through your recent posts to see what you were upset about. Most of it was in threads I didn't even read, but I agree with your assessments once I saw what was going on. I agree the Throw Down the Gauntlet challenges have been getting pretty silly lately, but I can tell by the subject line if it's something I want to get involved in or not. Selective attention.

Much of the ethical debate from a few months ago centered around one person's actual actions which he later reformed, but blew up into a "what would you do" hypothetical discussion. I hold out hope that most people in the accumulation stage will change their perspective once they actually get to the point of "enough," and get more introspective about their place in society once the answer to that question is no longer "I work at XYZ job to give back."

That's also my latest answer to whether or not it's ethical to make money off other people's consumption. If people do good with their money/freedom later whether they plan on it now or not, that seems like an at least decently ethical choice, and you can shrug off their screw-other-people attitude in the mean time. You should like this thread: http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/forum/throw-down-the-gauntlet/an-additional-dimension-of-being-or-approaching-fi/

I still see the forum as valuable. I even realized last night from a TD Ameritrade thread how to get commission free trades on VTI! I just assumed I wasn't eligible because my account is set up through my HSA. I also get plenty of food for thought on various issues and get to keep evolving my perspectives.

Ottawa

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Re: I can't do it anymore...
« Reply #6 on: January 29, 2014, 12:24:33 PM »

I'm aware of that; that's why I posted it in this forum. 


I guess it just blows my mind how an ethical/moral leader can have some despicable adherents.  It doesn't make any sense....

Sorry you feel this way.  I know often, there are some topics posted that might not be of any interest.  I just skip over them.  If there are people that aren't playing nice, the mods can remind them of the rules.  I haven't seen anyone consistently going over the line.  Sometimes it happens in the heat of a topic, but is usually self-correcting. 

Differences of opinion OTOH are a healthy part of a discussion.  Even if you and others firmly believe the position to be wrong.

As for despicable adherents...and unethical immoral folks...I don't see that really happening here. 


BPA

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Re: I can't do it anymore...
« Reply #7 on: January 29, 2014, 12:24:52 PM »
I'm sorry you feel that way, but you know you don't have to read the forums, right?  It's voluntary, so you can leave anytime.

You also have the option of taking what is valuable to you here and leaving the rest.  You don't need to convince other people of your beliefs, nor do you have to even read about theirs.  Just open the threads that are providing you with insight and inspiration and call it a day.

Best of luck to you,
Phoebe

I'm aware of that; that's why I posted it in this forum. 


I guess it just blows my mind how an ethical/moral leader can have some despicable adherents.  It doesn't make any sense....


I'm sure there are plenty who don't find MMM ethical or moral.  You know, the ones who benefit from conspicuous consumption.

Like Phoebe said, even though I don't agree with everyone here, I try to take away what I like and leave the rest.

clutchy

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Re: I can't do it anymore...
« Reply #8 on: January 29, 2014, 12:32:20 PM »
I was curious so I went through your recent posts to see what you were upset about. Most of it was in threads I didn't even read, but I agree with your assessments once I saw what was going on. I agree the Throw Down the Gauntlet challenges have been getting pretty silly lately, but I can tell by the subject line if it's something I want to get involved in or not. Selective attention.

Much of the ethical debate from a few months ago centered around one person's actual actions which he later reformed, but blew up into a "what would you do" hypothetical discussion. I hold out hope that most people in the accumulation stage will change their perspective once they actually get to the point of "enough," and get more introspective about their place in society once the answer to that question is no longer "I work at XYZ job to give back."

That's also my latest answer to whether or not it's ethical to make money off other people's consumption. If people do good with their money/freedom later whether they plan on it now or not, that seems like an at least decently ethical choice, and you can shrug off their screw-other-people attitude in the mean time. You should like this thread: http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/forum/throw-down-the-gauntlet/an-additional-dimension-of-being-or-approaching-fi/

I still see the forum as valuable. I even realized last night from a TD Ameritrade thread how to get commission free trades on VTI! I just assumed I wasn't eligible because my account is set up through my HSA. I also get plenty of food for thought on various issues and get to keep evolving my perspectives.

certainly a reasoned and thoughtful post.

and I'm not trying to say this forum lacks positive information; it does have it.  My frustration mostly lies with my inability to ignore the idiocy.

BPA

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Re: I can't do it anymore...
« Reply #9 on: January 29, 2014, 12:35:12 PM »
I was curious so I went through your recent posts to see what you were upset about. Most of it was in threads I didn't even read, but I agree with your assessments once I saw what was going on. I agree the Throw Down the Gauntlet challenges have been getting pretty silly lately, but I can tell by the subject line if it's something I want to get involved in or not. Selective attention.

Much of the ethical debate from a few months ago centered around one person's actual actions which he later reformed, but blew up into a "what would you do" hypothetical discussion. I hold out hope that most people in the accumulation stage will change their perspective once they actually get to the point of "enough," and get more introspective about their place in society once the answer to that question is no longer "I work at XYZ job to give back."

That's also my latest answer to whether or not it's ethical to make money off other people's consumption. If people do good with their money/freedom later whether they plan on it now or not, that seems like an at least decently ethical choice, and you can shrug off their screw-other-people attitude in the mean time. You should like this thread: http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/forum/throw-down-the-gauntlet/an-additional-dimension-of-being-or-approaching-fi/

I still see the forum as valuable. I even realized last night from a TD Ameritrade thread how to get commission free trades on VTI! I just assumed I wasn't eligible because my account is set up through my HSA. I also get plenty of food for thought on various issues and get to keep evolving my perspectives.

certainly a reasoned and thoughtful post.

and I'm not trying to say this forum lacks positive information; it does have it.  My frustration mostly lies with my inability to ignore the idiocy.


ha ha ha ha  Another reason to RE? 

I love the kids, my colleagues and my boss, but educational policy is the idiocy I can't avoid.

the fixer

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Re: I can't do it anymore...
« Reply #10 on: January 29, 2014, 12:41:20 PM »
My frustration mostly lies with my inability to ignore the idiocy.
This makes sense; I know I get sucked into it too sometimes. It sounds like you definitely need a break.

luigi49

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Re: I can't do it anymore...
« Reply #11 on: January 29, 2014, 12:53:28 PM »
If you think this forum has a lot of idiocy its worse on other once.   Some forum have clickish attitude which I don't find here.  This forum have a lot of interaction and feedback. 

judgemebymyusername

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Re: I can't do it anymore...
« Reply #12 on: January 29, 2014, 04:04:07 PM »
but something has changed either in me or in the users here.  The level of idiocy and time wasting on such mundane and inconsequential things has gotten to me. 


Agreed, and I am starting to feel the same as you. I love the MMM blog, but the forum is wearing down on me. Reading about women reusing cloth towels for wiping after number 1 (disgusting and unsanitary) etc. The information is interesting and new at first, but now it's just a circlejerk between holier than people trying to one-up each other about how much more extreme they are when it comes to being cheap frugal.

BPA

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Re: I can't do it anymore...
« Reply #13 on: January 29, 2014, 04:11:25 PM »
but something has changed either in me or in the users here.  The level of idiocy and time wasting on such mundane and inconsequential things has gotten to me. 


Agreed, and I am starting to feel the same as you. I love the MMM blog, but the forum is wearing down on me. Reading about women reusing cloth towels for wiping after number 1 (disgusting and unsanitary) etc. The information is interesting and new at first, but now it's just a circlejerk between holier than people trying to one-up each other about how much more extreme they are when it comes to being cheap frugal.


ha ha  You were the only poster I found holier than thou on that thread. 

I use tp but I don't think it's up to me to judge others who are trying to be kind to the environment.  And yours was the ONLY nasty, judgmental comment on that thread.

judgemebymyusername

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Re: I can't do it anymore...
« Reply #14 on: January 29, 2014, 04:16:20 PM »
but something has changed either in me or in the users here.  The level of idiocy and time wasting on such mundane and inconsequential things has gotten to me. 


Agreed, and I am starting to feel the same as you. I love the MMM blog, but the forum is wearing down on me. Reading about women reusing cloth towels for wiping after number 1 (disgusting and unsanitary) etc. The information is interesting and new at first, but now it's just a circlejerk between holier than people trying to one-up each other about how much more extreme they are when it comes to being cheap frugal.


ha ha  You were the only poster I found holier than thou on that thread. 

I use tp but I don't think it's up to me to judge others who are trying to be kind to the environment.  And yours was the ONLY nasty, judgmental comment on that thread.

Yeah, I was such a NASTY person for sticking up for the nice mother in law. So happy to see you come here and find me just to berate me. Get over yourselves, and thank you for proving my point.

For the record, I was referring to a different post altogether. Believe it or not there are multiple people here who think not using toilet paper is the norm.
« Last Edit: January 29, 2014, 04:20:25 PM by B »

Eric

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Re: I can't do it anymore...
« Reply #15 on: January 29, 2014, 05:30:41 PM »
but something has changed either in me or in the users here.  The level of idiocy and time wasting on such mundane and inconsequential things has gotten to me. 


Agreed, and I am starting to feel the same as you. I love the MMM blog, but the forum is wearing down on me. Reading about women reusing cloth towels for wiping after number 1 (disgusting and unsanitary) etc. The information is interesting and new at first, but now it's just a circlejerk between holier than people trying to one-up each other about how much more extreme they are when it comes to being cheap frugal.


ha ha  You were the only poster I found holier than thou on that thread. 

I use tp but I don't think it's up to me to judge others who are trying to be kind to the environment.  And yours was the ONLY nasty, judgmental comment on that thread.

Yeah, I was such a NASTY person for sticking up for the nice mother in law. So happy to see you come here and find me just to berate me. Get over yourselves, and thank you for proving my point.


BPA made three posts on this thread before yours.  So he's stalking you?  I'd be done with this forum too if I started with the perspective that everyone is a holier-than-thou jerk and that every post that I didn't agree with was a personal attack on my own lifestyle or decisions.  Seriously, why are you the judge of others habits?  If it doesn't affect you, then how can you get so upset over it?

Maybe you should consider your OWN online tone and how it causes others to react to you.  Starting on the defensive is a terrible way to enjoy any online interaction.  I would say YMMV, but that seems to be your exact mileage.

For the record, I was referring to a different post altogether. Believe it or not there are multiple people here who think not using toilet paper is the norm.

So what?  Do you believe in online cooties?
« Last Edit: January 29, 2014, 05:37:31 PM by Eric »

Eric

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Re: I can't do it anymore...
« Reply #16 on: January 29, 2014, 05:34:26 PM »
The forum however is plagued with morally repugnant and ethically dubious individuals. 

I don't really get this.  I imagine I've seen most of the hypothetical threads, and most of them are just thought experiments.  I guess I don't take them that seriously.  Or is this like the old poker rule?  There's a sucker at every table.  If you're not sure who the sucker is, it's probably you.

NinetyFour

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Re: I can't do it anymore...
« Reply #17 on: January 29, 2014, 05:40:19 PM »
Not sure where the "idiocy" is.  Who knows--maybe I am one of the idiots.

I have only had real problems with two of the posters here.  One of the people--well, I just don't read any of his posts anymore.  The other one seems to have mostly disappeared from these parts.

I also just stay away from the fights that occasionally break out--many of those fights seem to involve some overly healthy egos.

I find that I especially like the journals.

BPA

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Re: I can't do it anymore...
« Reply #18 on: January 29, 2014, 05:44:53 PM »
Okay...I so have that Faith Hill song stuck in my head because of the thread title.  :D

Maybe we could write a parody?  I've been stuck home with the flu.  I need to go back to work, I think.  I promise not to write parodies when I reach RE.

I like this forum for the most part.  I even liked to read that story about the guy who lives without money and dumpster dives his food and uses leaves instead of tp even though I don't think I could ever do that. 


BPA

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Re: I can't do it anymore...
« Reply #19 on: January 29, 2014, 05:46:45 PM »
Not sure where the "idiocy" is.  Who knows--maybe I am one of the idiots.

I have only had real problems with two of the posters here.  One of the people--well, I just don't read any of his posts anymore.  The other one seems to have mostly disappeared from these parts.

I also just stay away from the fights that occasionally break out--many of those fights seem to involve some overly healthy egos.

I find that I especially like the journals.

All internet forums of any size have some drama. 

judgemebymyusername

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Re: I can't do it anymore...
« Reply #20 on: January 29, 2014, 06:15:31 PM »
but something has changed either in me or in the users here.  The level of idiocy and time wasting on such mundane and inconsequential things has gotten to me. 


Agreed, and I am starting to feel the same as you. I love the MMM blog, but the forum is wearing down on me. Reading about women reusing cloth towels for wiping after number 1 (disgusting and unsanitary) etc. The information is interesting and new at first, but now it's just a circlejerk between holier than people trying to one-up each other about how much more extreme they are when it comes to being cheap frugal.


ha ha  You were the only poster I found holier than thou on that thread. 

I use tp but I don't think it's up to me to judge others who are trying to be kind to the environment.  And yours was the ONLY nasty, judgmental comment on that thread.

Yeah, I was such a NASTY person for sticking up for the nice mother in law. So happy to see you come here and find me just to berate me. Get over yourselves, and thank you for proving my point.


BPA made three posts on this thread before yours.  So he's stalking you?  I'd be done with this forum too if I started with the perspective that everyone is a holier-than-thou jerk and that every post that I didn't agree with was a personal attack on my own lifestyle or decisions.  Seriously, why are you the judge of others habits?  If it doesn't affect you, then how can you get so upset over it?

Maybe you should consider your OWN online tone and how it causes others to react to you.  Starting on the defensive is a terrible way to enjoy any online interaction.  I would say YMMV, but that seems to be your exact mileage.

For the record, I was referring to a different post altogether. Believe it or not there are multiple people here who think not using toilet paper is the norm.

So what?  Do you believe in online cooties?

Didn't realize you all were on the same team here. I don't look at the usernames and track each person's comments individually, I just read the text and respond, regardless of who's writing it. I only noticed that this guy was on the other post because he brought it up.

I don't know why you guys are saying things like I "attacked" the OP on the post. Once again, it sounded TO ME like she was attacking her MIL and was offended by her MIL's kindness. People, her MIL was gifting her toilet paper, paper towels, and aluminum foil, because she thought that was the nice thing to do for her new daughter in law. I must be the only person here with a kind mother who would be thoughtful enough to do the same. I felt like OP was unjustifiably talking bad about her MIL without thinking at all of the other person's position. But again, I'm the asshole for pointing this out. You're the 3rd of 4th person to tell me so. I guess that's what I get for going onto a forum about frugality and trying to stand up for such wasteful things like using a renewable resource in our daily lives.

I thought if I stopped commenting on that other thread, it would be done and people would get over it. Nope, moved along to a different thread and agreed with the OP and here you all are trying to point out how I'm "imposing my way of life on other people" because I think it's weird to not use toilet paper. I don't recall telling the OP she MUST use toilet paper, hell I didn't even suggest anything near to it. But I'll say it, OP should have shut up and graciously accepted the gift from her family member. You folks on this website and this forum are in the minority. Most people don't agree with what you (we) are doing. But treating other people like shit for not agreeing with you is not going to get people to see your point of view.

That being said, I'm out. I can't fucking stand the arrogance of people like you in real life, and I can't stand it online other. I'm going to go wipe my ass now with some TOILET PAPER and I sincerely hope that one of you is offended by it. Then I'm going to drive my happy ass to the store in my pickup truck and buy some more. If you're looking for me you can find me on reddit.com/r/frugaljerk. This post describes this forum perfectly: http://www.reddit.com/r/frugaljerk/comments/1ctu1l/another_fat_cat_throwing_away_luxury_what_should/

« Last Edit: January 29, 2014, 06:19:42 PM by B »

beltim

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Re: I can't do it anymore...
« Reply #21 on: January 29, 2014, 06:18:15 PM »
This thread has taken an awesome turn.

« Last Edit: January 29, 2014, 06:20:04 PM by beltim »

Eric

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Re: I can't do it anymore...
« Reply #22 on: January 29, 2014, 06:30:52 PM »
I don't even know what thread you're talking about dude.  But...

I'm going to go wipe my ass now with some TOILET PAPER and I sincerely hope that one of you is offended by it.

This is a great line.  Can I use it in my signature?

BPA

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Re: I can't do it anymore...
« Reply #23 on: January 29, 2014, 06:47:06 PM »
I don't even know what thread you're talking about dude.  But...

I'm going to go wipe my ass now with some TOILET PAPER and I sincerely hope that one of you is offended by it.

This is a great line.  Can I use it in my signature?


I have no idea what dude is talking about either.  As B pointed out, I was talking about another thread apparently.  All I pointed out was that from an environmental perspective, I can see why some people would be opposed to using tp and paper towels. 

And that is a great line. 

BPA

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Re: I can't do it anymore...
« Reply #24 on: January 29, 2014, 06:50:15 PM »
Wait.  Dude is B.  How strange.  I didn't know we could change our usernames.

This is kind of tripping me out and I thought the flu meds were out of my system.  ;)

Dr.Vibrissae

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Re: I can't do it anymore...
« Reply #25 on: January 30, 2014, 01:01:26 PM »
Be honest, do you sometimes scan through posts you never thought you'd be interested in because they occasionally take a turn for the awesome?  That's how I ended up following this post.  Granted, I'd hate to see the majority of them go this way.

For the record, I do think it's weird not to use TP, but I doubt a washable single use pee-blotter is any more disgusting and unsanitary than washing and re-wearing panties.  Probably less so.  Oooh, big idea: disposable paper underwear!

Nuts, I just checked and it already exists http://www.amazon.com/Paper-Underwear/dp/B0029OSXSQ.


BPA

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Re: I can't do it anymore...
« Reply #26 on: January 30, 2014, 02:30:05 PM »
Be honest, do you sometimes scan through posts you never thought you'd be interested in because they occasionally take a turn for the awesome?  That's how I ended up following this post.  Granted, I'd hate to see the majority of them go this way.

For the record, I do think it's weird not to use TP, but I doubt a washable single use pee-blotter is any more disgusting and unsanitary than washing and re-wearing panties.  Probably less so.  Oooh, big idea: disposable paper underwear!

Nuts, I just checked and it already exists http://www.amazon.com/Paper-Underwear/dp/B0029OSXSQ.

I didn't intend to push Dude over the edge, FWIW.  Ooops.  Since he and I got into it about the paper towels and toilet paper on another thread, I thought I'd point out that he wasn't exactly reasonable after claiming I wasn't.  I guess I could have just shut up but despite the Canadian stereotype, I don't do that well.  :D

Guys don't normally wipe at all for number one, right?  (I am a woman and either I've dated some really gross guys or that is normal.)  I guess that's what you mean about the underwear thing.  And I've washed enough of my kids' skidmarked underwear to be a little less grossed out by possible urine stains.  But I do wipe!  I DO WIPE WITH TP!!!

Poor Clutchy never imagined his thread would go this way.  Sorry, Clutchy for my role in the derailing.

Dr.Vibrissae

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Re: I can't do it anymore...
« Reply #27 on: January 30, 2014, 03:36:27 PM »
As far as I'm aware guys don't use TP after urinating, maybe I should start a poll...

If clutchy is true to his word, I'm sure he stopped reading this particular thread of idiocy several posts ago, but I also apologize for contributing.

BPA

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Re: I can't do it anymore...
« Reply #28 on: January 30, 2014, 04:09:39 PM »
I hope Clutchy goes back to that airport thread.  I think he will like the response Bigote gave.  :)

And I honestly laughed out loud about the pee poll.

rocksinmyhead

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Re: I can't do it anymore...
« Reply #29 on: January 30, 2014, 04:39:04 PM »
I feel bad, but the last few posts on this have definitely made me laugh out loud.

lithy

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Re: I can't do it anymore...
« Reply #30 on: January 30, 2014, 06:59:52 PM »
As far as I'm aware guys don't use TP after urinating, maybe I should start a poll...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K7gLJ5idfSA

Oh man, this thread.  Every forum has the meltdown types...

Kriegsspiel

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Re: I can't do it anymore...
« Reply #31 on: January 30, 2014, 07:09:08 PM »
Men don't wipe, we shake. Careful though, any more than 3 and you're playing with it.

BPA

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Re: I can't do it anymore...
« Reply #32 on: January 30, 2014, 09:10:14 PM »
lol  Pure Gold.

Dab!!!!

Did you?!?!

And playing with it.  lol

The next time my son annoys me, I'm going to stand outside the bathroom door when he's going and ask him if he dabbed. 

And now I'm truly acting like an idiot.  I'm sorry again, Clutchy.  I cross the line between silly and obnoxious a lot and you actually seem like a really nice guy. 

Dr.Vibrissae

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Re: I can't do it anymore...
« Reply #33 on: January 30, 2014, 09:17:44 PM »
I was going to ask if Dude had read any of the posts in praise of menstrual cups and cloth pads, but then I thought better of it.

rocksinmyhead

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Re: I can't do it anymore...
« Reply #34 on: January 31, 2014, 07:06:38 AM »
I was going to ask if Dude had read any of the posts in praise of menstrual cups and cloth pads, but then I thought better of it.

haha!

if someone tells me my DivaCup is gross(er than tampons), I will definitely punch them in the face

MsSindy

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Re: I can't do it anymore...
« Reply #35 on: January 31, 2014, 07:44:45 AM »
Normally I mind my own business, so I generally only have my own experiences as a frame of reference for a lot of things (esp more personal things).  So, I actually find it rather fascinating to hear about what other people do (voyeuristic perhaps??).  I don't really agree or disagree with how anyone wants to live their life; I'm just, like, "huh, really, interesting".  I pause and consider if I would like to incorporate that into my life.....sometimes not so much!  But I never feel compelled to put down others for how they want to live their life.  Most every point can be made with some tact  (or just don't bother).

These last few comments however, really made me chuckle...it's the sophomoric side of me, I guess!  It's nice to see it lighten up though.

sheepstache

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Re: I can't do it anymore...
« Reply #36 on: January 31, 2014, 07:59:14 AM »
Listen, since we're all here anyway...
I keep wanting to comment on the TP topic that urine is sterile, so maybe people would feel less squeamish about it.  Probably not, because who lets facts get in the way?  But worth a shot.
But it turns out that's a popular misconception!
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/04/120409164156.htm
There are actually small quantities of bacteria in some women's bladders (the paper only had female test subjects).  And this is taking samples directly from the bladder, not contamination during the urination process.

So, the more you know. 

edited for sense-making
« Last Edit: January 31, 2014, 08:19:10 AM by sheepstache »

Samsam

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Re: I can't do it anymore...
« Reply #37 on: January 31, 2014, 08:09:33 AM »
a TP thread!...kinda.  So timely, I just bought bidet hookups for all my toilets. 

Cromacster

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Re: I can't do it anymore...
« Reply #38 on: January 31, 2014, 08:35:55 AM »
Quote
A guy walks into a drug store, and is moving up and down the aisles, obviously searching for something. The pharmacist comes out and asks if he can help the guy.
"Yeah, my wife sent me in here to buy her some tampons" replies the guy.
The pharmacist tells him, "No problem, that'll be in aisle twelve, Feminine Products."
A few minutes later the guy walks up to the counter and puts down a huge bag of cotton balls and a ball of string.
"What's this," asks the pharmacist. "I thought you were looking for tampons"
The guy says, "Well, a few days ago I asked my wife to pick me up a carton of cigarettes. She came back with a tin of tobacco and a pack of rolling papers, because they're SOOOO much cheaper. I figure if I have to roll MY own, she can do the same."

source:
http://www.jokebuddha.com/Tampons/recent/2#ixzz2rzUGPllX

MgoSam

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Re: I can't do it anymore...
« Reply #39 on: January 31, 2014, 10:38:31 AM »
Out of curiosity, did the OP have a reason for posting this or was it a rant? Not trying to flame him/her, but semi-confused.

Bank

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Re: I can't do it anymore...
« Reply #40 on: January 31, 2014, 12:11:00 PM »
I only get bugged by the, ahem... "diversity of views," when I'm particularly interested in a topic thread and it veers wildly off into arguments and slander for the better part of a page.  Makes it harder to find the good stuff.

Haven't seen anything unethical here personally.  I attribute the weird stuff to most of us being batshit crazy in one way or another.  Otherwise we wouldn't all be collected around a Canadian messiah who's trying to spend most of his life kicked back while simultaneously saving the world.

GuitarStv

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Re: I can't do it anymore...
« Reply #41 on: January 31, 2014, 12:28:58 PM »
You say it like anyone had any doubt that our saviour would be Canadian.

clutchy

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Re: I can't do it anymore...
« Reply #42 on: January 31, 2014, 12:33:06 PM »
Out of curiosity, did the OP have a reason for posting this or was it a rant? Not trying to flame him/her, but semi-confused.

OP here;

there were a few "thought experiment" threads that asked basically what .gov benefits you'd be willing to take either in ER or to get to ER.   There was a mind blowing amount of people who were willing to take from the poor and the most vulnerable to advance their personal gratification. 

Then there was the guy who, rootofgood I think, who decided not to pay back his student loans after gaining the benefit from them he decided to stiff society.  He made up all sorts of BS but what it came down to was that he went on an income based repayment which doesn't take into effect assets and his payments went to nothing. 


It's that kind of stuff that really started pissing me off and got me thinking about the morality and ethics of ER.

I came to the conclusion, and maybe incorrectly, that there are a good amount of people who are willing to behave in an amoral or unethical manner to advance their personal goals and life satisfaction. 

I started tossing around the terms despicable etc...  I'm sure it's a smaller percentage but it was alarming to say the least considering the moral leader of the group professes to a high level of social responsibility. 

I have a hard time adhering to any philosophy that becomes predatory/amoral/unethical and would want to dissociate myself from it.
« Last Edit: January 31, 2014, 12:35:43 PM by clutchy »

BPA

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Re: I can't do it anymore...
« Reply #43 on: January 31, 2014, 02:24:17 PM »
Out of curiosity, did the OP have a reason for posting this or was it a rant? Not trying to flame him/her, but semi-confused.

OP here;

there were a few "thought experiment" threads that asked basically what .gov benefits you'd be willing to take either in ER or to get to ER.   There was a mind blowing amount of people who were willing to take from the poor and the most vulnerable to advance their personal gratification. 

Then there was the guy who, rootofgood I think, who decided not to pay back his student loans after gaining the benefit from them he decided to stiff society.  He made up all sorts of BS but what it came down to was that he went on an income based repayment which doesn't take into effect assets and his payments went to nothing. 


It's that kind of stuff that really started pissing me off and got me thinking about the morality and ethics of ER.

I came to the conclusion, and maybe incorrectly, that there are a good amount of people who are willing to behave in an amoral or unethical manner to advance their personal goals and life satisfaction. 

I started tossing around the terms despicable etc...  I'm sure it's a smaller percentage but it was alarming to say the least considering the moral leader of the group professes to a high level of social responsibility. 

I have a hard time adhering to any philosophy that becomes predatory/amoral/unethical and would want to dissociate myself from it.

Hmmm.  Clearly I missed those threads. 

I do like MMM's sense of social responsibility. 

I hope you do stick around.  While admittedly at times cult-like with our Canuck Saviour, really you form your own philosophy in life and I don't think there is anything wrong with disagreeing vehemently with others.  As long as we don't start namecalling and stuff.

Angelfishtitan

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Re: I can't do it anymore...
« Reply #44 on: January 31, 2014, 02:38:29 PM »
I have a hard time adhering to any philosophy that becomes predatory/amoral/unethical and would want to dissociate myself from it.

People use many reasons to use almost any philosphy immorally, holy wars anyone? You can't turn away from it solely due to someone using it for inappropriate justification.

FIRE in my opinion is generally amoral, as in the first definition, not having to do with morals. Whether you save quickly or work for longer time by itself isn't a moral quandry, it more or less only affects you. Mustachianism specifically adds in parts to this journey, most values of which are on the moral side of the spectrum, in particular lessening your environmental impact.

beltim

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Re: I can't do it anymore...
« Reply #45 on: January 31, 2014, 03:00:55 PM »
I had a feeling that was part of the cause but from reading around for the last year I'm sure it's a minority of people here that agree with those actions. I was surprised by how many people commenting agreed with them, but I think it's more because most people who disagreed stayed out of the argument. As I said, from reading the rest of the forums most people do seem to stay on the ethical side of things


A poll indicated it was a big majority, not a vocal minority. 
http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/forum/welcome-to-the-forum/ethics-of-er/

beltim

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Re: I can't do it anymore...
« Reply #46 on: January 31, 2014, 03:15:41 PM »
I had a feeling that was part of the cause but from reading around for the last year I'm sure it's a minority of people here that agree with those actions. I was surprised by how many people commenting agreed with them, but I think it's more because most people who disagreed stayed out of the argument. As I said, from reading the rest of the forums most people do seem to stay on the ethical side of things


A poll indicated it was a big majority, not a vocal minority. 
http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/forum/welcome-to-the-forum/ethics-of-er/
Lol, this topic came up after rootofgood's controversy so I figured it was related and didn't even look at it. Maybe everyone else did the same?

I just voted so I could see the results and very few who did vote agreed with welfare, food stamps, or reduced lunches. I'm somewhat surprised at the EIC amount but even I wavered on the Pell Grant...though that may have been because of my specific situation (married at 18 so never had to take my parents info into account on FAFSA and we still only qualified for anything the first year). And even that one with 199 votes is pretty small considering that at one point today there were 432 people in the forums at once

Well, I said most of what I want to say on the topic in that thread, but I just wanted to bring up the poll to show that the OP isn't coming out of nowhere. 

marty998

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Re: I can't do it anymore...
« Reply #47 on: January 31, 2014, 03:25:00 PM »
I had a feeling that was part of the cause but from reading around for the last year I'm sure it's a minority of people here that agree with those actions. I was surprised by how many people commenting agreed with them, but I think it's more because most people who disagreed stayed out of the argument. As I said, from reading the rest of the forums most people do seem to stay on the ethical side of things


A poll indicated it was a big majority, not a vocal minority. 
http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/forum/welcome-to-the-forum/ethics-of-er/

None of those particular poll options exist in Australia (except for welfare) so I voted none of the above. I was surprised to click that link and see the results. (I voted early in that thread and the early results were different). I would not FIRE and then go on welfare, that to me is repugnant.

I find it depressing that some people cannot see the connection between collecting welfare when they don't need it, and fucking their fellow neighbour because taxes have to be raised to pay for that welfare. It shits me that my taxes go a long way to paying for *some* people who are unwilling to provide for themselves. Yes I know there are genuine cases of need, but where is that line drawn.

This gentle rant brought to you by a bleeding heart leftie.

And for those out there who think this thread is wasted space and a bad read guess what! You can't use it as toilet paper!





Forgive my bad joke for the day :)

***

I should edit for accuracy, some of the poll options have vaguely similar equivalents in Aus, but general point is that I don't think it's right to choose not to provide for yourself and your own and collect benefits intended for the genuinely needy.
« Last Edit: January 31, 2014, 03:36:00 PM by marty998 »

totoro

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Re: I can't do it anymore...
« Reply #48 on: January 31, 2014, 03:58:25 PM »
I thought the OP was a bit off on the post but then I looked at the alarming poll results...

I agree that collecting welfare after early retirement should not be permitted.  How can you do that anyway?  In Canada it is means tested and this includes investments.  And why would your child get subsidized school lunch?? 

You know, my view is that if you retire you should be doing it on the backs of other taxpayers.  It doesn't matter how many loopholes you find: you don't need the social support if you voluntarily decide to stop working.

BPA

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Re: I can't do it anymore...
« Reply #49 on: January 31, 2014, 04:12:34 PM »
The sample was too small to be significant really.  I can't even read it but if it were 199 people, that's not representative. 

I didn't answer since I'm not American, but I agree that welfare shouldn't be viewed as a way to supplement one's retirement.

And I'm a leftie too.