Author Topic: I am glad they were wrong!  (Read 8157 times)

partgypsy

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Re: I am glad they were wrong!
« Reply #50 on: July 22, 2019, 01:02:27 PM »
First of all, while the WH wants to use immigrants as a bogeyman, they don't actually want to cut off the flow of undocumented workers, which Trump donors (including Trump himself) have used. If they did, they would crack down on people hiring those workers. Instead, they want to make sure legally they have very little no legal recourse, so they can be exploited even more. It is also used as a way of favoring/punishing countries. A doctor's from Egypt for example will not get his Visa renewed. However a Dr from Saudi Arabia will be (bc of ties with Trump and Saudi Arabia). I think it is a mess, but its somewhat an intentional mess.

iris lily

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Re: I am glad they were wrong!
« Reply #51 on: July 22, 2019, 01:18:32 PM »
Ladies and gentlemen, I have to quit this thread. It wasn't meant to be a reflection on the current President. Where I come from, our politics do not revolve around the Prime minister. We just don't care about it as much. I obviously misunderstood this community. It seems a lot of you dislike the president (which is fine, I don't care).

And I have to agree with those that say I can't really post anything that might be construed as a positive reflection of the President because it gets people riled up.

I thought a finance community would be celebrating our economic achievements. I understand this is not truly the case. Again, sorry if I offended anyone. Please understand that I come from a different culture, and I do not quite share the same values (clearly), but I am not here to try and disrupt the established order. Henceforth, I will keep in mind that conservatives should watch their step (although I am not a conservative by any means).



I don't think an apology is necessary, MG. You may count me among those who despise the current president, yet I don't think the sorry state of his administration means that none of us are allowed to celebrate, ever, for any reason. A lot of people apparently believe they must constantly express outrage to demonstrate what virtuous people they are, and I, for one, am tired of it.

Peace.

Dear Lord Almighty, Yes to this.

BDWW

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Re: I am glad they were wrong!
« Reply #52 on: July 22, 2019, 01:38:22 PM »
Ladies and gentlemen, I have to quit this thread. It wasn't meant to be a reflection on the current President. Where I come from, our politics do not revolve around the Prime minister. We just don't care about it as much. I obviously misunderstood this community. It seems a lot of you dislike the president (which is fine, I don't care).

And I have to agree with those that say I can't really post anything that might be construed as a positive reflection of the President because it gets people riled up.

I thought a finance community would be celebrating our economic achievements. I understand this is not truly the case. Again, sorry if I offended anyone. Please understand that I come from a different culture, and I do not quite share the same values (clearly), but I am not here to try and disrupt the established order. Henceforth, I will keep in mind that conservatives should watch their step (although I am not a conservative by any means).



I don't think an apology is necessary, MG. You may count me among those who despise the current president, yet I don't think the sorry state of his administration means that none of us are allowed to celebrate, ever, for any reason. A lot of people apparently believe they must constantly express outrage to demonstrate what virtuous people they are, and I, for one, am tired of it.

Peace.

Dear Lord Almighty, Yes to this.

You guys are clearly part of the problem. If you're not beating people in the streets of Portland, or driving over people in Charlottesville, you're supporting the enemy.

joleran

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Re: I am glad they were wrong!
« Reply #53 on: July 24, 2019, 10:33:23 AM »
In the same way Trump is trying to reduce ALL immigration (well except for certain european countries), cutting the number of green cards and work and education visa for countries on his list. Doesn't matter if they are law abiding, highly educated, or contribute to this country, he is making it difficult for those people to renew visas. This will also end up undermining our economy.

I thought his policy basically just maintained the overall immigration numbers?  He has some countries blacklisted, but overall I thought it was neutral.

sherr

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Re: I am glad they were wrong!
« Reply #54 on: July 24, 2019, 11:50:23 AM »
In the same way Trump is trying to reduce ALL immigration (well except for certain european countries), cutting the number of green cards and work and education visa for countries on his list. Doesn't matter if they are law abiding, highly educated, or contribute to this country, he is making it difficult for those people to renew visas. This will also end up undermining our economy.

I thought his policy basically just maintained the overall immigration numbers?  He has some countries blacklisted, but overall I thought it was neutral.

That sounds about right for the changes he has actually been able to enact. In the past he tried to drastically slash the overall number of legal immigrants, but couldn't get the Republican Congress to agree to it.

He has also slashed the number of refugees and asylum seekers that we take in, which is a different category from "immigrants". Not to mention sought to make the process harder, longer, more expensive, etc. So there's a lot more nuance than just "the number is the same but from different countries."

partgypsy

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Re: I am glad they were wrong!
« Reply #55 on: July 24, 2019, 05:22:28 PM »
As the article states, while what is going on on the border (which is really, a humanitarian crisis at this point) is just the most visible news of many far reaching changes that the current administration is doing with immigration.
Administration slashed the number of humanitarian refugees to the US, from 110K to 45K. The process is so backlogged only 20K have been let in. Trump/Miller want to reduce it to 30K a year which is really nothing. These are not people who are terrorists or threats to this country, it's just pure mean-spiritedness.

The overall effect is to make the immigration process a punitive, arbitrary and beurecratically more complex than before. It effectively makes people who previously were in the pipeline to become citizens, to know what their legal status is and what they have to do to become citizens, now in limbo.

Many of the things they are trying to do (reduce asylum seekers, or turn them away without due process) are actually violating both US and international laws. Mexico has asked the UN to investigate what is going on on the border, and there are reports of UN observers being turned away.

Trump has a denaturalization task force, that in effect will review naturalized citizens of their applications of any errors, also whether they have committed felonies, to potentially strip them of their citizenship. Basically now the US is going to become a two-class system. People who are US citizens due to birth, and naturalized citizens, who have a different level of "citizenship" one that can be potentially taken away.  Trump also wants to, by executive order end citizenship by birthright. As this is something in our constitution it would be very difficult for him to do so, but apparently he is looking into other avenues that he can control or change who is considered a US citizen.

We may end up being a society like in WWII movies where people walking on the street can be stopped by soldiers/police at any time to see their "papers".
 
https://www.afsc.org/blogs/news-and-commentary/trumps-attacks-legal-immigration-system-explained
« Last Edit: July 24, 2019, 05:35:57 PM by partgypsy »

bigblock440

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Re: I am glad they were wrong!
« Reply #56 on: August 15, 2019, 10:26:55 AM »

 and it is only the tariffs (ie, a tax on American companies/consumers)

What exactly do you think all of the other taxes are?

sherr

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Re: I am glad they were wrong!
« Reply #57 on: August 15, 2019, 11:33:43 AM »

 and it is only the tariffs (ie, a tax on American companies/consumers)

What exactly do you think all of the other taxes are?

Right, but the difference is that Trump regularly lies and says that the Tariffs are not taxes on Americans, so it's worth pointing out that they are.

BDWW

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Re: I am glad they were wrong!
« Reply #58 on: August 15, 2019, 12:45:09 PM »

 and it is only the tariffs (ie, a tax on American companies/consumers)

What exactly do you think all of the other taxes are?

Right, but the difference is that Trump regularly lies and says that the Tariffs are not taxes on Americans, so it's worth pointing out that they are.

So would you say every EPA regulation or minimum wage hike is a tax on the American people?

sherr

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Re: I am glad they were wrong!
« Reply #59 on: August 15, 2019, 02:38:57 PM »

 and it is only the tariffs (ie, a tax on American companies/consumers)

What exactly do you think all of the other taxes are?

Right, but the difference is that Trump regularly lies and says that the Tariffs are not taxes on Americans, so it's worth pointing out that they are.

So would you say every EPA regulation or minimum wage hike is a tax on the American people?

Would I say that? No, because that makes no sense, because neither of those things are taxes.

Do you really know what Trump's Tariffs are? For the uninitiated:

Trump is unilaterally imposing an import tax (a "tariff") on goods we import from China. So if Ford wants to buy aluminum for example, they can either buy aluminum produced in America for whatever the going rate is here, or they can buy aluminum from China for whatever the going rate is there and then pay the US Government the 25% (or whatever) import tax.

The theory here is that that incentivizes Ford to buy from American aluminum producers, thereby helping the American economy. Which is great and true for aluminum producers. But for literally everyone else in the economy all that's doing is making aluminum more expensive and/or taxes higher, hurting them exactly as much as it helped the aluminum producers.

Ford of course is not just going to eat the higher cost of aluminum by itself. So it raises the price of the F-150 accordingly. So now Joe Farmer has to pay more for his work truck as a 2nd-order effect.

But regardless of deep you want to go, whether just the 1st-order "Ford has to pay the import tax" or the 2nd-order "Joe Farmer pays the import tax in the form of more expensive goods", either way import taxes are taxes on Americans. Not a single dollar flowed from China into the Federal budget.

Maybe we succeeded in hurting China's economy along the way. And it looks like we have. And in retaliation maybe they announce their own tariffs or stop buying soybeans or something and they succeed in hurting our economy. And it looks like they have.

But either way tariffs are taxes on Americans, and this is such an uncontroversial and universally-known fact that I can't believe I'm having to defend it. Just because you're a Republican doesn't mean you have to believe all of Trump's blatant lies. In fact in this case it should make you super suspicious, the pre-Trump Republican party was all about free trade.