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Around the Internet => Antimustachian Wall of Shame and Comedy => Topic started by: frances on August 24, 2015, 02:35:33 PM

Title: How does it feel to buy a Lamborghini (or any dream car) from your own salary?
Post by: frances on August 24, 2015, 02:35:33 PM
Maybe this has already circulated on this thread but it's pretty special

http://www.quora.com/How-does-it-feel-to-buy-a-Lamborghini-or-any-dream-car-from-your-own-salary

Highlights:

"Another piece of advice for anyone looking to get a super car, is to work your way up slowly so you get more and more comfortable with the higher car payments.  I went from an M3 to 911 now to V10 R8 in the last 2-3 years, and the 4 figure R8 payment isn't hard to swallow, since I have been use to making similar payments on the 911."

"As for the age thing...I am now 27 and have a 911 and V10 R8 that I purchased on my own (my parents would kill me before buying me $280k worth of cars)...The attention is something you sign up for when you buy the car, 99.999999% is good attention...You will get a ton of thumbs up, a ton of smiles, people will come up and ask for pictures, you will come back to the car after leaving a store and see finger prints all over the windows, people will stare...its all part of the fun.

Then you have the .1% of the clowns that will occassionaly ask you "did daddy get that for you" or "how long did you have to sell drugs to afford that" lol. You just learn to ignore the hate, and know that at the end of the day you will be driving an R8 and they will go back to leading their frustrated little lives."
Title: Re: How does it feel to buy a Lamborghini (or any dream car) from your own salary?
Post by: MgoSam on August 24, 2015, 02:41:51 PM
Another quora fan! I just discovered it about a month or two ago, and love it.
Title: Re: How does it feel to buy a Lamborghini (or any dream car) from your own salary?
Post by: EricP on August 24, 2015, 02:53:21 PM
Quote
You just learn to ignore the hate, and know that at the end of the day you will be driving an R8 and they will go back to leading their frustrated little lives.

I wouldn't be hating on him, it's his money, but $280k would go a long way to no longer having to live a "frustrated little life" as he put it.  And if I was going to get a Supercar, it would just be the Tesla P85D which is far cheaper than most supercars and faster than most of them

Getting back to the money piece, according to Edmunds insurance alone is $2400/yr which is probably more than a lot of us spend on total transportation costs.
Title: Re: How does it feel to buy a Lamborghini (or any dream car) from your own salary?
Post by: MgoSam on August 24, 2015, 03:00:19 PM
Yeah, I don't like the "frustrated little lives," line. But if someone has a dream and that dream is to own a car that anyone with income can own (it's not like a dream of going to the Olympics where you have to have qualifications that only a few in the world achieve), go for it. Live your life...I'm happy with my "frustrated little," one I currently live.
Title: Re: How does it feel to buy a Lamborghini (or any dream car) from your own salary?
Post by: Chris22 on August 24, 2015, 03:38:06 PM
Pretty sure he was referring to the people criticizing him as having "frustrated little lives", not just anyone not driving a supercar.
Title: Re: How does it feel to buy a Lamborghini (or any dream car) from your own salary?
Post by: gimp on August 24, 2015, 06:42:53 PM
The P85D can accelerate very quickly, and it's a cool car, don't get me wrong, but a supercar it ain't.

If you want supercar territory for that money: GTR, Corvette (modified C6/C6Z06, modified/stock C6 ZR1, or the new modified/stock C7 Z06), or Viper are where it's at. They may not have the 0-60 but they're actually intended to run at high speed and make the turns that a tesla P85D can't.

Anyways, while I could hypothetically afford a supercar on my salary, it'd be an insane thing to buy. Same for most people. Also, a great way to end up dead.
Title: Re: How does it feel to buy a Lamborghini (or any dream car) from your own salary?
Post by: EricP on August 25, 2015, 08:12:28 AM
The P85D can accelerate very quickly, and it's a cool car, don't get me wrong, but a supercar it ain't.

If you want supercar territory for that money: GTR, Corvette (modified C6/C6Z06, modified/stock C6 ZR1, or the new modified/stock C7 Z06), or Viper are where it's at. They may not have the 0-60 but they're actually intended to run at high speed and make the turns that a tesla P85D can't.

So what you're telling me is that a P85D can do everything that's actually legal better than supercars but can't do the illegal stuff?  Then I think I'm okay with in not being a "supercar."  I mean, how many times do people actually take their supercars to the track?  I'm guessing it's closer to 0 then it is to "more often then they get to accelerate from a red light."
Title: Re: How does it feel to buy a Lamborghini (or any dream car) from your own salary?
Post by: LiveLean on August 25, 2015, 08:22:34 AM
Any remote thought I once had of purchasing a dream car ended a year ago when a woman flew through a stop sign and totaled my minivan. The hassle, time suck, and inconvenience of getting another minivan -- let alone dealing with ongoing injuries -- cured me of any lingering desire to one day have a dream car. I value the minivan -- it was my second after having the previous one nine years -- but I can't imagine adding the headache of insuring/replacing a dream car under similar circumstances. And had I not been driving a tank of a minivan and, say, a small sportscar instead, I'm probably not here writing this.

In the end, a car of any sort is just a fast depreciating "asset" that's designed for transportation, nothing more.
Title: Re: How does it feel to buy a Lamborghini (or any dream car) from your own salary?
Post by: GuitarStv on August 25, 2015, 08:25:39 AM
With a lambo you're really just paying for the name.  I think you can get a nicer bike for less.

(http://image.rakuten.co.jp/kaminorth/cabinet/bicycle01/img58377934.jpg?_ex=128x128)


For that reason, the dream seems kinda stupid to waste money on.
Title: Re: How does it feel to buy a Lamborghini (or any dream car) from your own salary?
Post by: MgoSam on August 25, 2015, 08:36:42 AM
The thing that got me about this is that when the guy was buying his car, the dealership flew him out there and put him up in a fancy hotel. Clearly they made a good chunk of money in this transaction.
Title: Re: How does it feel to buy a Lamborghini (or any dream car) from your own salary?
Post by: EricP on August 25, 2015, 08:45:05 AM
The thing that got me about this is that when the guy was buying his car, the dealership flew him out there and put him up in a fancy hotel. Clearly they made a good chunk of money in this transaction.

Yeah, he bragged about haggling the salesman down, but then he just comps him a room at a fancy hotel without even thinking about it.  Now I'm thinking that selling this car the day they put it up is probably not the norm and that they were stoked about moving such an expensive car so fast and not having the $200k+ of capital hung up in a single car that sits on the showroom floor for 6 months.
Title: Re: How does it feel to buy a Lamborghini (or any dream car) from your own salary?
Post by: zephyr911 on August 25, 2015, 12:25:23 PM
"Another piece of advice for anyone looking to shove incredibly large objects up your ass, is to work your way up slowly so you can expand your capacity without catastrophic tearing. I went from fingers to a series of successively larger dildos, and now I can easily fit a mailbox in there with minimal discomfort"
FTFY ;)

I do have a thing for cars, and I might go somewhat anti-Mustachian with one someday when I've sorted out this FIRE thing. But the idea of voluntarily having ever-higher car payments just to get used to the pain is laughably awful when you could (instead) get rich and then buy one with so much less sacrificed in the process. Buy something cheap but fast (used Miata or S2000) if you really have to have sporty cars all along the way, invest like a mofo and then buy that Ferrari if you still have the bug. Even better, drive a shitty-ass beater, invest even more, and pay cash for that supercar just a few years from now.

I gave up "sporty" entirely and I do miss it, but flooring the FIRE accelerator turns out to be pretty damn exhilarating too.
Title: Re: How does it feel to buy a Lamborghini (or any dream car) from your own salary?
Post by: Travis on August 25, 2015, 12:45:28 PM
He's a consulting firm CEO so he's got some money to spend.  I want to smack him for the "frustrated little lives" comment since he's probably making a hell of a lot more money than most people, but at least he says this:

Quote
Now if you are having to overextend yourself to the point where you have to give up other parts of your life (you have no business buying any type of expensive toy to begin with).
Title: Re: How does it feel to buy a Lamborghini (or any dream car) from your own salary?
Post by: zephyr911 on August 25, 2015, 12:52:50 PM
He's a consulting firm CEO so he's got some money to spend.  I want to smack him for the "frustrated little lives" comment since he's probably making a hell of a lot more money than most people, but at least he says this:

Quote
Now if you are having to overextend yourself to the point where you have to give up other parts of your life (you have no business buying any type of expensive toy to begin with).
Unless he's simultaneously saving 50% of his income, and/or really loves his job and wants to do it till he dies, I'd argue that he is giving up other parts of his life: all those years he could spend doing whatever the fuck he wants AND driving a supercar, if he'd just wait a little while.
Title: Re: How does it feel to buy a Lamborghini (or any dream car) from your own salary?
Post by: Gone Fishing on August 25, 2015, 01:06:34 PM
I think the "frustrated little lives" comment is probably pretty accurate.  The haters are probably the same people who ridicule ER (just read the comments on MMM article that hits mainstream media).  The man wanted something so he went out and did what he needed to get it, not that much different than MMM or anyone else on the ER path.  We are separating ourselves from the norm and will undoubtedly catch some grief for it at some point from someone with a "frustrated little life", most likely someone with the same or even greater opportunities to make their lives what they wanted, but simply failed to focus on what they really wanted.       
Title: Re: How does it feel to buy a Lamborghini (or any dream car) from your own salary?
Post by: EricP on August 25, 2015, 01:09:08 PM
He's a consulting firm CEO so he's got some money to spend.  I want to smack him for the "frustrated little lives" comment since he's probably making a hell of a lot more money than most people, but at least he says this:

Quote
Now if you are having to overextend yourself to the point where you have to give up other parts of your life (you have no business buying any type of expensive toy to begin with).
Unless he's simultaneously saving 50% of his income, and/or really loves his job and wants to do it till he dies, I'd argue that he is giving up other parts of his life: all those years he could spend doing whatever the fuck he wants AND driving a supercar, if he'd just wait a little while.

You would be correct that he is giving up other parts of his life, but getting him to realize that is another question.
Title: Re: How does it feel to buy a Lamborghini (or any dream car) from your own salary?
Post by: MgoSam on August 25, 2015, 01:16:19 PM
That's one thing I love about this site, is the realization that time is money for most of us. Let's say that all of us were saving 50% of our income and still had the ability to buy a car such as this. The difference is that for me, and I presume many of us, I would instead up my savings more so that I could hit FIRE sooner.
Title: Re: How does it feel to buy a Lamborghini (or any dream car) from your own salary?
Post by: Tjat on August 25, 2015, 02:42:25 PM
At least he got a "reasonable" 60 month loan...

I don't know about anyone else but I feel great and like I'm beating the system every time I climb in my long-paid off 8 year old soon to be beater. On the flipside, my brother has a 6 year old fully loaded Accord and has been talking about getting a new car already...

 
Title: Re: How does it feel to buy a Lamborghini (or any dream car) from your own salary?
Post by: gimp on August 25, 2015, 03:26:54 PM
The P85D can accelerate very quickly, and it's a cool car, don't get me wrong, but a supercar it ain't.

If you want supercar territory for that money: GTR, Corvette (modified C6/C6Z06, modified/stock C6 ZR1, or the new modified/stock C7 Z06), or Viper are where it's at. They may not have the 0-60 but they're actually intended to run at high speed and make the turns that a tesla P85D can't.

So what you're telling me is that a P85D can do everything that's actually legal better than supercars but can't do the illegal stuff?  Then I think I'm okay with in not being a "supercar."  I mean, how many times do people actually take their supercars to the track?  I'm guessing it's closer to 0 then it is to "more often then they get to accelerate from a red light."

I live in the bay area. I don't know anyone who has a supercar and who does not track it at least occasionally. And I know a hell of a lot of people with ridiculous cars.

In fact, a great many of my coworkers take their relatively normal cars to the track.



Something being illegal doesn't mean it's impossible. Did you know that in general, it's illegal to accelerate too quickly? A 0-60 of 2.8 seconds or whatever is going to be illegal if you do it on a normal road.

Even the shittiest of shitboxes in the past 15 years can keep up with traffic on any road in the US if you press the gas hard enough, assuming it's in good repair. Okay, with a few exceptions, that's true. Which of course means that anyone buying more than a fairly basic car is buying it for luxury; and it will have a top speed that is generally illegal to achieve on any normal road in the US. This is a great argument for buying a used econobox. This is not a great argument for buying a tesla over a GTR or whatever; if you're paying $100k for a car, you will never experience the performance it fully offers unless you take it to a track or break some laws.



As much as I like teslas, I would not say that they do everything legal better than other cars of the same caliber. They do a lot of stuff way better. They do some stuff worse, some much worse. For some jobs, they are simply 100% unsuitable, even compared to something like my old, non-fancy car. If I was buying a $100k-ish car, no, I would not pick the P85D, because the things it cannot do actually matter to me on a regular basis. I love teslas and I love that tesla exists, there's no fanboyism against them in saying that.
Title: Re: How does it feel to buy a Lamborghini (or any dream car) from your own salary?
Post by: EricP on August 25, 2015, 03:32:10 PM
The P85D can accelerate very quickly, and it's a cool car, don't get me wrong, but a supercar it ain't.

If you want supercar territory for that money: GTR, Corvette (modified C6/C6Z06, modified/stock C6 ZR1, or the new modified/stock C7 Z06), or Viper are where it's at. They may not have the 0-60 but they're actually intended to run at high speed and make the turns that a tesla P85D can't.

So what you're telling me is that a P85D can do everything that's actually legal better than supercars but can't do the illegal stuff?  Then I think I'm okay with in not being a "supercar."  I mean, how many times do people actually take their supercars to the track?  I'm guessing it's closer to 0 then it is to "more often then they get to accelerate from a red light."

I live in the bay area. I don't know anyone who has a supercar and who does not track it at least occasionally. And I know a hell of a lot of people with ridiculous cars.

I too also don't know anyone who has a supercar and who does not track it at least occasionally...
Title: Re: How does it feel to buy a Lamborghini (or any dream car) from your own salary?
Post by: Chris22 on August 25, 2015, 04:08:46 PM
That's one thing I love about this site, is the realization that time is money for most of us.

What's interesting to me is the understanding of that from a macro perspective, but the tendency to completely miss it in the micro perspective.  I was thinking about that this weekend while I mowed my lawn with my noisy gas-powered mower ($300 Honda-powered Craftsman, 8 years old and going strong!)  I was thinking about how MMM would tell me I was stupid for doing it with my fast gas powered mower, and should instead be using a reel mower, and then pulling weeds by hand and sweeping the driveway/patio with a broom instead of firing up my 2cycle weedwacker with blower attachment and weedeating/blowing off the concrete.  My life would not be richer if I turned that 45 minute ritual into 2 hours or more doing it with hand tools.  And I was looking at my huge ash tree with its leaves thinking about how I'll be blowing and mulching them with power tools (and then burning them!) instead of raking them by hand and shoving them in bags or whatever. 
Title: Re: How does it feel to buy a Lamborghini (or any dream car) from your own salary?
Post by: sol on August 25, 2015, 04:13:35 PM
I too also don't know anyone who has a supercar and who does not track it at least occasionally...

As a counter example that might illustrate the logical fallacy in this argument, I don't know anyone with a supercar that DOES take it to a track.  I also don't know anyone with a supercar who doesn't.  Okay I don't know anyone with a supercar.
Title: Re: How does it feel to buy a Lamborghini (or any dream car) from your own salary?
Post by: MgoSam on August 25, 2015, 06:28:05 PM
I too also don't know anyone who has a supercar and who does not track it at least occasionally...

As a counter example that might illustrate the logical fallacy in this argument, I don't know anyone with a supercar that DOES take it to a track.  I also don't know anyone with a supercar who doesn't.  Okay I don't know anyone with a supercar.

+1, I was thinking the same thing.
Title: Re: How does it feel to buy a Lamborghini (or any dream car) from your own salary?
Post by: Syonyk on August 25, 2015, 08:42:24 PM
All the people with performance cars I know track them fairly regularly. Including a P85D.
Title: Re: How does it feel to buy a Lamborghini (or any dream car) from your own salary?
Post by: Tjat on August 26, 2015, 06:18:48 AM
I know people that have destroyed their car on a track too...

In my mind, if I want the thrill of massive acceleration and cornering there is no way I would pay 100k+ to achieve it. Taking up skydiving and going to 6 flags for some coasters may not be mustachian, but a hell of a lot cheaper that a supercar.
Title: Re: How does it feel to buy a Lamborghini (or any dream car) from your own salary?
Post by: Papa Mustache on August 26, 2015, 08:06:20 AM
At least he got a "reasonable" 60 month loan...

I don't know about anyone else but I feel great and like I'm beating the system every time I climb in my long-paid off 8 year old soon to be beater. On the flipside, my brother has a 6 year old fully loaded Accord and has been talking about getting a new car already...

You might want to upgrade the daily driver to the brother's Accord. Bet they won't give jack for trade-in.
Title: Re: How does it feel to buy a Lamborghini (or any dream car) from your own salary?
Post by: Papa Mustache on August 26, 2015, 08:22:00 AM
100 mph in a sporty economy car on a track is just as exciting as 150 mph in a supercar. You might not be passing many. Might not have a car that is brag worthy among the rich guys in the pits.

A cheap car can still be fun. Here comes the cliche: a cheap car driven fast can be more fun than a fast car driven slow. 

Nobody I know around here tracks "super cars".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UuVmPsg8iwc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T7rRPrQBy8c

I know people that have destroyed their car on a track too...

In my mind, if I want the thrill of massive acceleration and cornering there is no way I would pay 100k+ to achieve it. Taking up skydiving and going to 6 flags for some coasters may not be mustachian, but a hell of a lot cheaper that a supercar.
Title: Re: How does it feel to buy a Lamborghini (or any dream car) from your own salary?
Post by: EricP on August 26, 2015, 09:18:11 AM
I too also don't know anyone who has a supercar and who does not track it at least occasionally...

As a counter example that might illustrate the logical fallacy in this argument, I don't know anyone with a supercar that DOES take it to a track.  I also don't know anyone with a supercar who doesn't.  Okay I don't know anyone with a supercar.

That's what I was getting at.  I was pointing out that MgoSam's statement doesn't actually state that he knows people with supercars that take them to the track.  Sure, he follows it up with "And I know lot's of people with ridiculous cars," but ridiculous cars are not necessarily the same as supercars.  I imagine he does know some people with supercars that take them to the track, but he could just be being clever with me.
Title: Re: How does it feel to buy a Lamborghini (or any dream car) from your own salary?
Post by: EricP on August 26, 2015, 09:22:47 AM
That's one thing I love about this site, is the realization that time is money for most of us.

What's interesting to me is the understanding of that from a macro perspective, but the tendency to completely miss it in the micro perspective.  I was thinking about that this weekend while I mowed my lawn with my noisy gas-powered mower ($300 Honda-powered Craftsman, 8 years old and going strong!)  I was thinking about how MMM would tell me I was stupid for doing it with my fast gas powered mower, and should instead be using a reel mower, and then pulling weeds by hand and sweeping the driveway/patio with a broom instead of firing up my 2cycle weedwacker with blower attachment and weedeating/blowing off the concrete.  My life would not be richer if I turned that 45 minute ritual into 2 hours or more doing it with hand tools.  And I was looking at my huge ash tree with its leaves thinking about how I'll be blowing and mulching them with power tools (and then burning them!) instead of raking them by hand and shoving them in bags or whatever.

Well, yes it takes twice as long, but you forget to account for the health benefits of reel mowing that will increase your lifespan and thus you're spending more time by using your power tools. /s
Title: Re: How does it feel to buy a Lamborghini (or any dream car) from your own salary?
Post by: Chris22 on August 26, 2015, 09:23:46 AM
That's one thing I love about this site, is the realization that time is money for most of us.

What's interesting to me is the understanding of that from a macro perspective, but the tendency to completely miss it in the micro perspective.  I was thinking about that this weekend while I mowed my lawn with my noisy gas-powered mower ($300 Honda-powered Craftsman, 8 years old and going strong!)  I was thinking about how MMM would tell me I was stupid for doing it with my fast gas powered mower, and should instead be using a reel mower, and then pulling weeds by hand and sweeping the driveway/patio with a broom instead of firing up my 2cycle weedwacker with blower attachment and weedeating/blowing off the concrete.  My life would not be richer if I turned that 45 minute ritual into 2 hours or more doing it with hand tools.  And I was looking at my huge ash tree with its leaves thinking about how I'll be blowing and mulching them with power tools (and then burning them!) instead of raking them by hand and shoving them in bags or whatever.

Well, yes it takes twice as long, but you forget to account for the health benefits of reel mowing that will increase your lifespan and thus you're spending more time by using your power tools. /s

Yes, I forgot to include the made up part that makes the specious argument work.
Title: Re: How does it feel to buy a Lamborghini (or any dream car) from your own salary?
Post by: BlueMR2 on August 26, 2015, 09:31:15 AM
I see quite a few supercars at the track.  Never a Tesla though.

100 mph in a sporty economy car on a track is just as exciting as 150 mph in a supercar. You might not be passing many. Might not have a car that is brag worthy among the rich guys in the pits.

There's a lot of truth there.  I can have more fun in my 130 hp car at the track than my 400 hp car.  The 130 hp car is also more pure fun with skinny street tires than with the wide sticky race tires.
Title: Re: How does it feel to buy a Lamborghini (or any dream car) from your own salary?
Post by: sw1tch on August 26, 2015, 09:41:11 AM
100 mph in a sporty economy car on a track is just as exciting as 150 mph in a supercar. You might not be passing many. Might not have a car that is brag worthy among the rich guys in the pits.

A cheap car can still be fun. Here comes the cliche: a cheap car driven fast can be more fun than a fast car driven slow. 

Nobody I know around here tracks "super cars".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UuVmPsg8iwc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T7rRPrQBy8c

I know people that have destroyed their car on a track too...

In my mind, if I want the thrill of massive acceleration and cornering there is no way I would pay 100k+ to achieve it. Taking up skydiving and going to 6 flags for some coasters may not be mustachian, but a hell of a lot cheaper that a supercar.

So true.  I went to a couple open track days a few years back and this thread reminds me of the Ford GT driver that spun out right after entering the track.  He very obviously couldn't drive that car as he was in the weeds multiple times that day while I was putting along in a civic hatchback the whole time having a blast.
Title: Re: How does it feel to buy a Lamborghini (or any dream car) from your own salary?
Post by: zephyr911 on August 26, 2015, 10:46:02 AM
That's one thing I love about this site, is the realization that time is money for most of us.

What's interesting to me is the understanding of that from a macro perspective, but the tendency to completely miss it in the micro perspective.  I was thinking about that this weekend while I mowed my lawn with my noisy gas-powered mower ($300 Honda-powered Craftsman, 8 years old and going strong!)  I was thinking about how MMM would tell me I was stupid for doing it with my fast gas powered mower, and should instead be using a reel mower, and then pulling weeds by hand and sweeping the driveway/patio with a broom instead of firing up my 2cycle weedwacker with blower attachment and weedeating/blowing off the concrete.  My life would not be richer if I turned that 45 minute ritual into 2 hours or more doing it with hand tools.  And I was looking at my huge ash tree with its leaves thinking about how I'll be blowing and mulching them with power tools (and then burning them!) instead of raking them by hand and shoving them in bags or whatever.
MMM doesn't categorically reject tools. He doesn't do carpentry by hand. The muscle-over-motor argument applies to many situations because the health thing, and the inherent value of hard physical work, do apply; however, if it's going to save you time that you can use to make money, or if there's some other rationale that you can apply, more power to ya.
Title: Re: How does it feel to buy a Lamborghini (or any dream car) from your own salary?
Post by: HairyUpperLip on August 26, 2015, 01:04:01 PM
At least he got a "reasonable" 60 month loan...

I don't know about anyone else but I feel great and like I'm beating the system every time I climb in my long-paid off 8 year old soon to be beater. On the flipside, my brother has a 6 year old fully loaded Accord and has been talking about getting a new car already...

You might want to upgrade the daily driver to the brother's Accord. Bet they won't give jack for trade-in.

only, touche. Get the Accord. :P
Title: Re: How does it feel to buy a Lamborghini (or any dream car) from your own salary?
Post by: HairyUpperLip on August 26, 2015, 01:07:48 PM
That's one thing I love about this site, is the realization that time is money for most of us.

What's interesting to me is the understanding of that from a macro perspective, but the tendency to completely miss it in the micro perspective.  I was thinking about that this weekend while I mowed my lawn with my noisy gas-powered mower ($300 Honda-powered Craftsman, 8 years old and going strong!)  I was thinking about how MMM would tell me I was stupid for doing it with my fast gas powered mower, and should instead be using a reel mower, and then pulling weeds by hand and sweeping the driveway/patio with a broom instead of firing up my 2cycle weedwacker with blower attachment and weedeating/blowing off the concrete.  My life would not be richer if I turned that 45 minute ritual into 2 hours or more doing it with hand tools.  And I was looking at my huge ash tree with its leaves thinking about how I'll be blowing and mulching them with power tools (and then burning them!) instead of raking them by hand and shoving them in bags or whatever.
MMM doesn't categorically reject tools. He doesn't do carpentry by hand. The muscle-over-motor argument applies to many situations because the health thing, and the inherent value of hard physical work, do apply; however, if it's going to save you time that you can use to make money, or if there's some other rationale that you can apply, more power to ya.

Further thread derail  warning -

Been in my house almost 2 months. Borrowed a friends mower 3 times and paid $40 for "professional" one time lawn service so far. So torn on buying a cheap gas mower, electric one, or reel mower. :(
Title: Re: How does it feel to buy a Lamborghini (or any dream car) from your own salary?
Post by: powersuitrecall on August 26, 2015, 01:36:08 PM
...
Then you have the .1% of the clowns that will  ...

I once took a ride in a co-worker's 911.  We were stopped at a light and 2 kids walking by yelled "YOU"RE BALD" to us.  My companion looked a bit hurt but I thought it was funny as hell (and yes we are balding).
Title: Re: How does it feel to buy a Lamborghini (or any dream car) from your own salary?
Post by: Chris22 on August 26, 2015, 02:42:22 PM
That's one thing I love about this site, is the realization that time is money for most of us.

What's interesting to me is the understanding of that from a macro perspective, but the tendency to completely miss it in the micro perspective.  I was thinking about that this weekend while I mowed my lawn with my noisy gas-powered mower ($300 Honda-powered Craftsman, 8 years old and going strong!)  I was thinking about how MMM would tell me I was stupid for doing it with my fast gas powered mower, and should instead be using a reel mower, and then pulling weeds by hand and sweeping the driveway/patio with a broom instead of firing up my 2cycle weedwacker with blower attachment and weedeating/blowing off the concrete.  My life would not be richer if I turned that 45 minute ritual into 2 hours or more doing it with hand tools.  And I was looking at my huge ash tree with its leaves thinking about how I'll be blowing and mulching them with power tools (and then burning them!) instead of raking them by hand and shoving them in bags or whatever.
MMM doesn't categorically reject tools. He doesn't do carpentry by hand. The muscle-over-motor argument applies to many situations because the health thing, and the inherent value of hard physical work, do apply; however, if it's going to save you time that you can use to make money, or if there's some other rationale that you can apply, more power to ya.

"I don't want to spend much more time than I have to on yardwork."
Title: Re: How does it feel to buy a Lamborghini (or any dream car) from your own salary?
Post by: gimp on August 27, 2015, 11:40:06 AM
I too also don't know anyone who has a supercar and who does not track it at least occasionally...

As a counter example that might illustrate the logical fallacy in this argument, I don't know anyone with a supercar that DOES take it to a track.  I also don't know anyone with a supercar who doesn't.  Okay I don't know anyone with a supercar.

That's what I was getting at.  I was pointing out that MgoSam's statement doesn't actually state that he knows people with supercars that take them to the track.  Sure, he follows it up with "And I know lot's of people with ridiculous cars," but ridiculous cars are not necessarily the same as supercars.  I imagine he does know some people with supercars that take them to the track, but he could just be being clever with me.

Not MgoSam, gimp :)

Dude, bay area, man. There are a lot of supercars in the parking lot (relatively speaking.) People track them incessantly. I wasn't playing with words, I am saying: 1) I have talked to quite a few folk with supercars, or at least supercar-level performance, and 2) all of them [whom I've talked to] take their cars to the track.

Yeah, it's probably a lot more fun to drive a miata at 120 mph than a ferrari at 120 mph, which is why miatas are also super popular here :)

Supercars aren't my style, but it's good to see that people who buy cars capable of insane performance actually go out and use that performance regularly. Nothing worse than a beast in a cage, eh?
Title: Re: How does it feel to buy a Lamborghini (or any dream car) from your own salary?
Post by: zephyr911 on August 27, 2015, 01:57:31 PM
"I don't want to spend much more time than I have to on yardwork."
That's not really a rationale.

Please explain how the time savings improve your income or quality of life. If you're using the spare time to watch more TV, it's facepunch time.
Title: Re: How does it feel to buy a Lamborghini (or any dream car) from your own salary?
Post by: Chris22 on August 27, 2015, 03:56:50 PM
"I don't want to spend much more time than I have to on yardwork."
That's not really a rationale.

Please explain how the time savings improve your income or quality of life. If you're using the spare time to watch more TV, it's facepunch time.

How the fuck is spending less time on something I don't really want to do not an improvement in my quality of life?  Even if I'm sitting there watching TV, which I'm not unless a good football game is on, it's still spending time on something I WANT to do rather than something I HAVE to do.  Facepalm.
Title: Re: How does it feel to buy a Lamborghini (or any dream car) from your own salary?
Post by: Syonyk on August 27, 2015, 04:07:19 PM
It builds character.  Duh.  And the greatest glory is doing something with muscles you could do with a motor.  Duh.
Title: Re: How does it feel to buy a Lamborghini (or any dream car) from your own salary?
Post by: MgoSam on August 27, 2015, 04:21:05 PM
It builds character.

Thanks Calvin's father.
Title: Re: How does it feel to buy a Lamborghini (or any dream car) from your own salary?
Post by: HairyUpperLip on August 28, 2015, 08:45:09 AM
It builds character.

Thanks Calvin's father.

hehehehehehehe
Title: Re: How does it feel to buy a Lamborghini (or any dream car) from your own salary?
Post by: zephyr911 on August 28, 2015, 12:19:03 PM
How the fuck is spending less time on something I don't really want to do not an improvement in my quality of life?  Even if I'm sitting there watching TV, which I'm not unless a good football game is on, it's still spending time on something I WANT to do rather than something I HAVE to do.  Facepalm.
Oh right, you're new. Truisms most people here accept include the idea that spending money to enable laziness is generally not an improvement in quality of life, even if it feels like it at the time. Exceptions exist but the assumption should be examined.

Don't get mad. Look at what I'm saying and think about it.
Title: Re: How does it feel to buy a Lamborghini (or any dream car) from your own salary?
Post by: EricP on August 28, 2015, 12:34:33 PM
How the fuck is spending less time on something I don't really want to do not an improvement in my quality of life?  Even if I'm sitting there watching TV, which I'm not unless a good football game is on, it's still spending time on something I WANT to do rather than something I HAVE to do.  Facepalm.
Oh right, you're new. Truisms most people here accept include the idea that spending money to enable laziness is generally not an improvement in quality of life, even if it feels like it at the time. Exceptions exist but the assumption should be examined.

Don't get mad. Look at what I'm saying and think about it.

So a person can't assess for themselves that they'd rather be spending an hour doing something else other than raking their clippings?  That person is just wrong by default because "reasons"? Isn't this spare time that they are creating "worth" more than $25 an hour?  So if they can create an hour for less than $25 they should be doing it?

Maybe if someone isn't getting good exercise than that may have merit, but if one is already getting their biking in and/or working out on company time at the gym (which the DoD does let me do) then the "Look at the health benefits" argument doesn't work.
Title: Re: How does it feel to buy a Lamborghini (or any dream car) from your own salary?
Post by: Vorpal on August 28, 2015, 01:23:12 PM
I go one step further and just pay to have people mow, edge, and blow my yard. It's a small price to pay in order to free up extra time to spend with family, building stuff in the garage, etc. Also, Houston weather sucks in the summer, and doing manual labor outside can literally be hazardous to your health. I've had early-stage heat stroke before, and am now extra-sensitive to the heat.
Title: Re: How does it feel to buy a Lamborghini (or any dream car) from your own salary?
Post by: sol on August 28, 2015, 01:39:32 PM
So a person can't assess for themselves that they'd rather be spending an hour doing something else other than raking their clippings?  That person is just wrong by default because "reasons"?

I think this person hasn't read much of the blog yet, Eric.  Of course he's free to choose, he's just contradicting the message that has brought us all together here with this particular choice.

Here's a tip Chris, the things that you think will make you happy and the things that really make you happy are probably not the same.  Humans derive pleasure from overcoming challenges and accomplishing difficult tasks, not sitting on their assess all day being entertained.  Despite this, we all seem to naturally avoid difficult tasks and seek out entertaining ass-sitting options instead, to our own detriment. 
Title: Re: How does it feel to buy a Lamborghini (or any dream car) from your own salary?
Post by: NoraLenderbee on August 28, 2015, 03:29:07 PM
So a person can't assess for themselves that they'd rather be spending an hour doing something else other than raking their clippings?  That person is just wrong by default because "reasons"?

I think this person hasn't read much of the blog yet, Eric.  Of course he's free to choose, he's just contradicting the message that has brought us all together here with this particular choice.

Here's a tip Chris, the things that you think will make you happy and the things that really make you happy are probably not the same.  Humans derive pleasure from overcoming challenges and accomplishing difficult tasks, not sitting on their assess all day being entertained.  Despite this, we all seem to naturally avoid difficult tasks and seek out entertaining ass-sitting options instead, to our own detriment.


True, but that doesn't mean all unpleasant tasks are satisfying challenges or bring happiness. Some things are just tedious, boring, and tiresome. Minimizing the life-detracting crapola is one part of creating your own happiness (though it's not sufficient by itself). Otherwise, wouldn't we all keep working full-time forever because it's character-building?
Title: Re: How does it feel to buy a Lamborghini (or any dream car) from your own salary?
Post by: Chris22 on August 28, 2015, 03:31:21 PM
So a person can't assess for themselves that they'd rather be spending an hour doing something else other than raking their clippings?  That person is just wrong by default because "reasons"?

I think this person hasn't read much of the blog yet, Eric.  Of course he's free to choose, he's just contradicting the message that has brought us all together here with this particular choice.

Here's a tip Chris, the things that you think will make you happy and the things that really make you happy are probably not the same.  Humans derive pleasure from overcoming challenges and accomplishing difficult tasks, not sitting on their assess all day being entertained.  Despite this, we all seem to naturally avoid difficult tasks and seek out entertaining ass-sitting options instead, to our own detriment.

Here's a tip for you:  I work long hours. When I rush through chores on the weekend, it's to spend more time with my wife and young daughter, and our dog.
Title: Re: How does it feel to buy a Lamborghini (or any dream car) from your own salary?
Post by: Chris22 on August 28, 2015, 03:35:33 PM
How the fuck is spending less time on something I don't really want to do not an improvement in my quality of life?  Even if I'm sitting there watching TV, which I'm not unless a good football game is on, it's still spending time on something I WANT to do rather than something I HAVE to do.  Facepalm.
Oh right, you're new. Truisms most people here accept include the idea that spending money to enable laziness is generally not an improvement in quality of life, even if it feels like it at the time. Exceptions exist but the assumption should be examined.

Don't get mad. Look at what I'm saying and think about it.

Spending money?  The tools are all nearly 10 years old and long since paid for at time of purchase. Aside from a couple gallons of gas a summer, they're free, and have a total resale of maybe $100.
Title: Re: How does it feel to buy a Lamborghini (or any dream car) from your own salary?
Post by: BlueMR2 on August 28, 2015, 04:31:09 PM
Spending money?  The tools are all nearly 10 years old and long since paid for at time of purchase. Aside from a couple gallons of gas a summer, they're free, and have a total resale of maybe $100.

Obligatory facepunch.  You can go with manually operated tools and save the gas.  I save enough money in gas with my reel mower to buy a new one every year if I wanted to (of course, I don't though).  :-)
Title: Re: How does it feel to buy a Lamborghini (or any dream car) from your own salary?
Post by: Chris22 on August 28, 2015, 06:53:03 PM
Spending money?  The tools are all nearly 10 years old and long since paid for at time of purchase. Aside from a couple gallons of gas a summer, they're free, and have a total resale of maybe $100.

Obligatory facepunch.  You can go with manually operated tools and save the gas.  I save enough money in gas with my reel mower to buy a new one every year if I wanted to (of course, I don't though).  :-)

Reel mowers are $12?  I fill a 2-gal gas can about 2x a summer. I have a fairly small lot, about a 1/4 acre. Throw on another $3 for a gallon for the weedwacker and couple bucks for the 40:1 oil to mix in.
Title: Re: How does it feel to buy a Lamborghini (or any dream car) from your own salary?
Post by: BlueMR2 on August 29, 2015, 12:30:35 PM
$100 for the reel mower.  I was filling my 2.5 gallon gas can every week of the growing season (20x).
Title: Re: How does it feel to buy a Lamborghini (or any dream car) from your own salary?
Post by: Syonyk on August 29, 2015, 02:52:26 PM
It might depend on where you live! And how much land you have!

(I don't intend to attack 2+ acres of cheatgrass with a reel mower, fwiw...)
Title: Re: How does it feel to buy a Lamborghini (or any dream car) from your own salary?
Post by: ginastarke on August 29, 2015, 06:12:39 PM
GuitarStv, I was thinking the same thing. But If I wanted attention ( one of the reasons to own a supercar, apparently) I'd get a Cargo bike with lights and a cargo system, or an Organic Transit ELF (wipes up drool)
Title: Re: How does it feel to buy a Lamborghini (or any dream car) from your own salary?
Post by: EricP on September 01, 2015, 09:30:57 AM
Spending money?  The tools are all nearly 10 years old and long since paid for at time of purchase. Aside from a couple gallons of gas a summer, they're free, and have a total resale of maybe $100.

Obligatory facepunch.  You can go with manually operated tools and save the gas.  I save enough money in gas with my reel mower to buy a new one every year if I wanted to (of course, I don't though).  :-)

Yet I'm sure you'll find no issue with MMM using an electric bike when that is literally exactly the same discussion as being had here.  If electric bikes are acceptable as gateway bikes and bikes for times when you were "too busy or tired to embark on a bike errand," then I see no difference in using an electric mower instead of a reel mower and rake when you are just too busy to mow the lawn by hand.
Title: Re: How does it feel to buy a Lamborghini (or any dream car) from your own salary?
Post by: Syonyk on September 01, 2015, 11:01:48 AM
Yeah, that post is kind of awkward, isn't it?

<3 my ebikes.
Title: Re: How does it feel to buy a Lamborghini (or any dream car) from your own salary?
Post by: JLee on September 02, 2015, 12:58:45 PM
"I don't want to spend much more time than I have to on yardwork."
That's not really a rationale.

Please explain how the time savings improve your income or quality of life. If you're using the spare time to watch more TV, it's facepunch time.
I find it amusing that the primary goal of this forum is avoiding having to work for a living (allegedly to improve your quality of life), but if people want to expedite any other non-employment task it's "facepunch time".
Title: Re: How does it feel to buy a Lamborghini (or any dream car) from your own salary?
Post by: Tjat on September 02, 2015, 07:26:47 PM
I think this person hasn't read much of the blog yet, Eric.  Of course he's free to choose, he's just contradicting the message that has brought us all together here with this particular choice.

Here's a tip Chris, the things that you think will make you happy and the things that really make you happy are probably not the same.  Humans derive pleasure from overcoming challenges and accomplishing difficult tasks, not sitting on their assess all day being entertained.  Despite this, we all seem to naturally avoid difficult tasks and seek out entertaining ass-sitting options instead, to our own detriment. 

I think the "message" you speak is often distorted by those on the board that confuse it with hyper-cheapness. Reread the post discussing the difference between cheap vs frugal. While MMM would argue that it's asinine to indulge in costly convenience due to laziness/indifference, it is quite another to make an expenditure designed to maximize happiness/free time.

In this case, the poster is trading an amount of money he deems appropriate to not spend hours each week doing the same thing over and over again in scorching heat. For all we know, he has limited time outside of work to spend with his family or other hobbies. In this case, and assuming the poster isn't in hair on fire debt, a tradeoff of money for time seems to make sense. Alternatively, sacrificing happiness in order to be a martyr for the musings of a financial internet blog seems rather foolish.

Title: Re: How does it feel to buy a Lamborghini (or any dream car) from your own salary?
Post by: Chris22 on September 02, 2015, 07:37:54 PM
Thinking back, it isn't even money. My lawnmower and string trimmer were a housewarming present from my FIL when we moved into our first house (total cost maybe $500).  I added a blower attachment and edger attachment for the weedwacker, each ~$50-75.  And I spend about $20/yr on gas to run it all. So what's the big deal??  There is no money savings, figure I take care of the yard 1/2 the year (not in winter) I'm at about $1/wk to buy 1-2 hours of weekend back. What kind of fool doesn't take that payback?!?
Title: Re: How does it feel to buy a Lamborghini (or any dream car) from your own salary?
Post by: rocketpj on September 03, 2015, 03:33:41 PM
We see a few of those cars around here sometimes - there is a quiet community of very rich/celeb types who live on the Sunshine Coast in BC.  Or at least they keep houses here. 

My older boy always oohs and aahs when he sees one.  I always say more or less the same thing - if I owned one of those I'd sell it and not have to work anymore.  He doesn't get it (yet), but then he's 10.  Wait until he starts working at anything.
Title: Re: How does it feel to buy a Lamborghini (or any dream car) from your own salary?
Post by: BlueMR2 on September 03, 2015, 04:09:07 PM
I think the "message" you speak is often distorted by those on the board that confuse it with hyper-cheapness. Reread the post discussing the difference between cheap vs frugal. While MMM would argue that it's asinine to indulge in costly convenience due to laziness/indifference, it is quite another to make an expenditure designed to maximize happiness/free time.

Perhaps the problem is the varied position on the FIRE spectrum.  I tend to think of everyone as "hair on fire", where trading even a few dollars for time is facepunch worthy.  I'm used to seeing people saying "oh, it's only $20 here and $20 there" or "I'm worth it/the family is worht it" as they dig themselves deeper and deeper into a hole.  However, if you're already FIRE, there's no reason to NOT spend the money.  You're already free...
Title: Re: How does it feel to buy a Lamborghini (or any dream car) from your own salary?
Post by: Melody on September 03, 2015, 05:31:31 PM
Nissan 70z, baby Godzilla :-) about $70k new and super car performance, or for the cheaper version (will still impress the girls and be a fun ride) Toyota 86 $39k. Why anyone would spend $280k  on a car i don't know. I have a few friends with Nissan 50 and Toyota 86 and those are nice cars, but these friends are engineers on $200k salaraies who paid cash, so while I wouldn't do it personally it's not crazy.
Title: Re: How does it feel to buy a Lamborghini (or any dream car) from your own salary?
Post by: Drew664 on September 03, 2015, 05:44:15 PM
Glad I don't have the need for speed! Spendy hobby.

Has anyone ever rented a super car?
Title: Re: How does it feel to buy a Lamborghini (or any dream car) from your own salary?
Post by: whydavid on September 03, 2015, 05:56:20 PM
Thinking back, it isn't even money. My lawnmower and string trimmer were a housewarming present from my FIL when we moved into our first house (total cost maybe $500).  I added a blower attachment and edger attachment for the weedwacker, each ~$50-75.  And I spend about $20/yr on gas to run it all. So what's the big deal??  There is no money savings, figure I take care of the yard 1/2 the year (not in winter) I'm at about $1/wk to buy 1-2 hours of weekend back. What kind of fool doesn't take that payback?!?

I'd take it, and most others probably would, too..."Mustachian" or not.

I think there are some good counter-arguments from MMM and others, but only you can tell if they really apply to you:

1) It's exercise...people pay upwards of $50 a month for gym membership to get exercise, so why not get it in the form of yard work (the nature of yard work would force you to exercise regularly as well as to get outdoors)? May or may not apply to any given individual depending on how they spend the rest of their time, their physical condition, etc.

2) If you don't want to mow a lawn, then don't have one.  I am assuming you have a good reason for having a lawn.  As it turns out, we didn't, so we got rid of it.  I didn't particularly care for it, it attracted mosquitoes en masse, it was in the front yard where we don't go for recreation, and the effect on my water bill was several hundred dollars per year.  Some people actually utilize their lawns, so this decision would be more difficult...for us it was easy.

3) Are you really doing something more valuable with the time saved?  For you, it sounds like you enjoy family time on the weekends when you aren't cutting grass by hand...good for you, and an easy decision I think.  If the alternative was sitting in front of the idiot box watching reruns, I would advise you to cut the grass by hand.


Even MMM uses a range of pneumatic and cordless (woah, talk about luxury!) tools, 2 cars, electric bikes, a clothes washer, a gas oven (threw these last two in to ward off any "yeah, but those are just for work/blog purposes" comments), and a host of other things that cost money but save time and effort.  I think the message is not following this to the extreme, and to avoid cutting out all discomfort from your life.  Mowing the lawn with powered tools is not necessarily harmful in isolation, but if you extend this logic to every other decision and end up on your ass all day moving from chair to chair and enjoying how 'convenient' your toxic life has become, you've got a problem.  Only you can judge where you fall on that continuum, and in the meantime I'm just happy to have fellow forum-goers who will challenge each other on this.

Title: Re: How does it feel to buy a Lamborghini (or any dream car) from your own salary?
Post by: MgoSam on September 18, 2015, 08:27:26 AM
Nissan 70z, baby Godzilla :-) about $70k new and super car performance, or for the cheaper version (will still impress the girls and be a fun ride) Toyota 86 $39k.

How is the Toyota 86? I have driven a Camry my entire adult life (all 9 years of it lol) and while I love my car and plan on driving it to the ground as it only has 143,000 miles on it, some day I would like to get a more sporting car. I would want one that isn't overly expensive, will impress the girls (why not), and would have a relatively low cost of ownership/maintenance.

Of course, by the time I plan to get a car, maybe the Tesla will be way more affordable?
Title: Re: How does it feel to buy a Lamborghini (or any dream car) from your own salary?
Post by: JLee on September 18, 2015, 08:40:55 AM
Nissan 70z, baby Godzilla :-) about $70k new and super car performance, or for the cheaper version (will still impress the girls and be a fun ride) Toyota 86 $39k.

How is the Toyota 86? I have driven a Camry my entire adult life (all 9 years of it lol) and while I love my car and plan on driving it to the ground as it only has 143,000 miles on it, some day I would like to get a more sporting car. I would want one that isn't overly expensive, will impress the girls (why not), and would have a relatively low cost of ownership/maintenance.

Of course, by the time I plan to get a car, maybe the Tesla will be way more affordable?
I had to look that up...looks like it's the Scion FR-S / Subaru BRZ in the US market.  A friend had one and it wasn't a bad car (IIRC they're around $28k here) but I prefer my built 1991 MR2 Turbo. Much faster. :P  If he had a manual trans it'd have been more tolerable but the auto was slower than my SUV.
Title: Re: How does it feel to buy a Lamborghini (or any dream car) from your own salary?
Post by: MgoSam on September 18, 2015, 08:44:32 AM
Nissan 70z, baby Godzilla :-) about $70k new and super car performance, or for the cheaper version (will still impress the girls and be a fun ride) Toyota 86 $39k.

How is the Toyota 86? I have driven a Camry my entire adult life (all 9 years of it lol) and while I love my car and plan on driving it to the ground as it only has 143,000 miles on it, some day I would like to get a more sporting car. I would want one that isn't overly expensive, will impress the girls (why not), and would have a relatively low cost of ownership/maintenance.

Of course, by the time I plan to get a car, maybe the Tesla will be way more affordable?
I had to look that up...looks like it's the Scion FR-S / Subaru BRZ in the US market.  A friend had one and it wasn't a bad car (IIRC they're around $28k here) but I prefer my built 1991 MR2 Turbo. Much faster. :P  If he had a manual trans it'd have been more tolerable but the auto was slower than my SUV.

Thanks, I'm not very knowledgeable about cars. Thankfully I should have a decade before I need to consider a new car.
Title: Re: How does it feel to buy a Lamborghini (or any dream car) from your own salary?
Post by: Syonyk on September 18, 2015, 11:22:07 AM
I had to look that up...looks like it's the Scion FR-S / Subaru BRZ in the US market.  A friend had one and it wasn't a bad car (IIRC they're around $28k here) but I prefer my built 1991 MR2 Turbo. Much faster. :P  If he had a manual trans it'd have been more tolerable but the auto was slower than my SUV.

They're not about being fast.  They're about being insanely fun to slide around sideways, while being stupidly well behaved in such conditions.

They ship with the same tires as a Prius - which are not, exactly, high grip tires.  But it means you can have a stupid amount of fun sliding around normal city streets if you wish.

Jeremy Clarkson loved it - and he normally won't touch anything short of about 500hp.

https://vimeo.com/59415579
Title: Re: How does it feel to buy a Lamborghini (or any dream car) from your own salary?
Post by: JLee on September 18, 2015, 11:56:55 AM
I had to look that up...looks like it's the Scion FR-S / Subaru BRZ in the US market.  A friend had one and it wasn't a bad car (IIRC they're around $28k here) but I prefer my built 1991 MR2 Turbo. Much faster. :P  If he had a manual trans it'd have been more tolerable but the auto was slower than my SUV.

They're not about being fast.  They're about being insanely fun to slide around sideways, while being stupidly well behaved in such conditions.

They ship with the same tires as a Prius - which are not, exactly, high grip tires.  But it means you can have a stupid amount of fun sliding around normal city streets if you wish.

Jeremy Clarkson loved it - and he normally won't touch anything short of about 500hp.

https://vimeo.com/59415579

Oh I know, but when a $28k+ "sports" car takes almost 8 seconds to get to 60...well, that gets a huge 'meh' from me.  Clarkson drove a manual, which is over a second faster (and in that 0-60 range, a 1.3 second difference is pretty substantial).  I wouldn't mind giving a manual-equipped BRZ a workout; I'm sure it would be much more fun.  I remember punching the auto mid-corner, expecting a little bit of tail-happy/counter-steer, and it didn't do anything except make a little bit more noise. :P

Quote from: http://www.topspeed.com/cars/subaru/2014-2015-subaru-brz-ar160111.html
The autobox BRZ is quite slow compared with the manual, at least when the boxer engine is fresh and not fully run in.

Motor Trend reports a 7.7 sprint for their new BRZ Limited Automatic - which is not good from the 0-to-60 mph time leaders. For example, Motor Trend was able to hustle its BRZ manual to 60 mph in just 6.4 seconds.

Now, a manual FRS/BRZ on the used market...hmm. :D
Title: Re: How does it feel to buy a Lamborghini (or any dream car) from your own salary?
Post by: RWD on September 18, 2015, 12:40:39 PM
Nissan 70z, baby Godzilla :-) about $70k new and super car performance, or for the cheaper version (will still impress the girls and be a fun ride) Toyota 86 $39k.

How is the Toyota 86? I have driven a Camry my entire adult life (all 9 years of it lol) and while I love my car and plan on driving it to the ground as it only has 143,000 miles on it, some day I would like to get a more sporting car. I would want one that isn't overly expensive, will impress the girls (why not), and would have a relatively low cost of ownership/maintenance.

Of course, by the time I plan to get a car, maybe the Tesla will be way more affordable?
I had to look that up...looks like it's the Scion FR-S / Subaru BRZ in the US market.  A friend had one and it wasn't a bad car (IIRC they're around $28k here) but I prefer my built 1991 MR2 Turbo. Much faster. :P  If he had a manual trans it'd have been more tolerable but the auto was slower than my SUV.

I own a Subaru BRZ (manual transmission, of course). It's a lot of fun in the corners and quick enough above 4,000 rpm. No, it's not as fast as my old modified Supra Turbo. If you want straight line speed there are plenty of muscle cars available for a similar price. It gets 25% better fuel economy than a 1991 MR2 Turbo. I've averaged over 30 mpg since I purchased it.
Title: Re: How does it feel to buy a Lamborghini (or any dream car) from your own salary?
Post by: Sid Hoffman on September 18, 2015, 12:40:58 PM
I'm surprised nobody quoted the testimony from the very next reply on that link:

https://www.quora.com/How-does-it-feel-to-buy-a-Lamborghini-or-any-dream-car-from-your-own-salary

Quote from: Todd Wascom
So back in 2012 I was finally ready to get my dream car and after much debate and test drives, decided on a Nissan GTR.

...

There came a point before the one year mark when I realized that the car wasn't what I was looking for.

I was looking for validation.

Validation that I had made it. That the kid that didn't finish college made it. The kid that was bullied in elementary and middle school had made it. The kid that once walked home down a busy highway to avoid getting beat up by a group of kids had made it. The kid that wanted admiration and love (but didn't get) from his Mom and Dad had MADE IT.

An expensive car doesn't validate anything. It's simply a symbol of your ability to buy something most people can't.

I traded the GTR in that December and never looked back.
Title: Re: How does it feel to buy a Lamborghini (or any dream car) from your own salary?
Post by: JLee on September 18, 2015, 12:44:23 PM
Nissan 70z, baby Godzilla :-) about $70k new and super car performance, or for the cheaper version (will still impress the girls and be a fun ride) Toyota 86 $39k.

How is the Toyota 86? I have driven a Camry my entire adult life (all 9 years of it lol) and while I love my car and plan on driving it to the ground as it only has 143,000 miles on it, some day I would like to get a more sporting car. I would want one that isn't overly expensive, will impress the girls (why not), and would have a relatively low cost of ownership/maintenance.

Of course, by the time I plan to get a car, maybe the Tesla will be way more affordable?
I had to look that up...looks like it's the Scion FR-S / Subaru BRZ in the US market.  A friend had one and it wasn't a bad car (IIRC they're around $28k here) but I prefer my built 1991 MR2 Turbo. Much faster. :P  If he had a manual trans it'd have been more tolerable but the auto was slower than my SUV.

I own a Subaru BRZ (manual transmission, of course). It's a lot of fun in the corners and quick enough above 4,000 rpm. No, it's not as fast as my old modified Supra Turbo. If you want straight line speed there are plenty of muscle cars available for a similar price. It gets 25% better fuel economy than a 1991 MR2 Turbo. I've averaged over 30 mpg since I purchased it.

I'm running high boost on a forged motor with a GT3071 on E85..you get way more than 25% better fuel economy than I do.
Title: Re: How does it feel to buy a Lamborghini (or any dream car) from your own salary?
Post by: RWD on September 18, 2015, 12:47:25 PM
Nissan 70z, baby Godzilla :-) about $70k new and super car performance, or for the cheaper version (will still impress the girls and be a fun ride) Toyota 86 $39k.

How is the Toyota 86? I have driven a Camry my entire adult life (all 9 years of it lol) and while I love my car and plan on driving it to the ground as it only has 143,000 miles on it, some day I would like to get a more sporting car. I would want one that isn't overly expensive, will impress the girls (why not), and would have a relatively low cost of ownership/maintenance.

Of course, by the time I plan to get a car, maybe the Tesla will be way more affordable?
I had to look that up...looks like it's the Scion FR-S / Subaru BRZ in the US market.  A friend had one and it wasn't a bad car (IIRC they're around $28k here) but I prefer my built 1991 MR2 Turbo. Much faster. :P  If he had a manual trans it'd have been more tolerable but the auto was slower than my SUV.

I own a Subaru BRZ (manual transmission, of course). It's a lot of fun in the corners and quick enough above 4,000 rpm. No, it's not as fast as my old modified Supra Turbo. If you want straight line speed there are plenty of muscle cars available for a similar price. It gets 25% better fuel economy than a 1991 MR2 Turbo. I've averaged over 30 mpg since I purchased it.

I'm running high boost on a forged motor with a GT3071 on E85..you get way better than 25% more fuel economy than I do.

:) You might come out ahead on smiles per gallon.
Title: Re: How does it feel to buy a Lamborghini (or any dream car) from your own salary?
Post by: Melody on September 18, 2015, 04:41:25 PM
Nissan 70z, baby Godzilla :-) about $70k new and super car performance, or for the cheaper version (will still impress the girls and be a fun ride) Toyota 86 $39k.

How is the Toyota 86? I have driven a Camry my entire adult life (all 9 years of it lol) and while I love my car and plan on driving it to the ground as it only has 143,000 miles on it, some day I would like to get a more sporting car. I would want one that isn't overly expensive, will impress the girls (why not), and would have a relatively low cost of ownership/maintenance.

Of course, by the time I plan to get a car, maybe the Tesla will be way more affordable?
I had to look that up...looks like it's the Scion FR-S / Subaru BRZ in the US market.  A friend had one and it wasn't a bad car (IIRC they're around $28k here) but I prefer my built 1991 MR2 Turbo. Much faster.   If he had a manual trans it'd have been more tolerable but the auto was slower than my SUV.

I own a Subaru BRZ (manual transmission, of course). It's a lot of fun in the corners and quick enough above 4,000 rpm. No, it's not as fast as my old modified Supra Turbo. If you want straight line speed there are plenty of muscle cars available for a similar price. It gets 25% better fuel economy than a 1991 MR2 Turbo. I've averaged over 30 mpg since I purchased it.
My friend has the manual 86 and it's impressive :-) but agree some of the supras were awesome too. I have spent a lot of time driving an automatic Nissan sylvia 1993 model and even that is seriously fun :-) the Sylvia also benefits from having an enthusiast club here in Perth so in some ways is more desirable than a newer super/sports car as it's so recognisable as an awesome performance car.
Title: Re: How does it feel to buy a Lamborghini (or any dream car) from your own salary?
Post by: MgoSam on September 18, 2015, 09:19:26 PM
I went to Quora and re-read the guy's post and actually upvoted him. I did him a disservice the first time I read his post. If that's what he wants, go for it, his tone was completely reasonable. I don't understand cars much, but hey, he seems to have put in quite a lot of thought and is completely reasonable in his approach.
Title: Re: How does it feel to buy a Lamborghini (or any dream car) from your own salary?
Post by: jeromedawg on September 18, 2015, 11:09:30 PM
Crap... and I thought my Camry was good enough. For a while it was a nightmare car, when I almost ripped the door off it backing out of the garage as well as the AC going out on me. But now that it's back in working condition, with a fender and door of mismatched colors, that's all I could ever dream for LOL

Oh, not to mention the Bridgestone tires I just got installed on it. Those are some nice tires... probably a bit too nice for the car at this point. But hey, it's a much nicer ride than balding tires, so I think that was worth the splurge. Except, I can't really call it a splurge considering I should be getting $170 back in rebates, bringing it down to $333~
Title: Re: How does it feel to buy a Lamborghini (or any dream car) from your own salary?
Post by: SnackDog on September 19, 2015, 04:03:35 AM
The problem I see with fancy cars is that they are often purchased by simpletons who just see something shiny on the road and think "i want that"!  They fail to grasp the trade-offs they are making.  Remember - every purchase is a trade-off because everyone has limited resources, even billionaires.  Every dollar spent is an opportunity to maximize value.

A supercar will cost $30-50,000 per year in total cost of ownership.  Imagine the alternative uses for that cash for investments, real estate, travel, education,  and other uses which may actually create long term value.
Title: Re: How does it feel to buy a Lamborghini (or any dream car) from your own salary?
Post by: RWD on September 19, 2015, 08:04:00 AM
The problem I see with fancy cars is that they are often purchased by simpletons who just see something shiny on the road and think "i want that"!  They fail to grasp the trade-offs they are making.  Remember - every purchase is a trade-off because everyone has limited resources, even billionaires.  Every dollar spent is an opportunity to maximize value.

A supercar will cost $30-50,000 per year in total cost of ownership.  Imagine the alternative uses for that cash for investments, real estate, travel, education,  and other uses which may actually create long term value.

Your numbers are pretty accurate for purchasing a new supercar. For example, the five year cost of ownership for the R8 is $154k (http://www.intellichoice.com/1-12-2015-56530-0/2015-audi-r8-5-2-plus-2dr-coupe.html) and the SLS is $215k (http://www.intellichoice.com/1-12-2015-57718-0/2015-mercedes-benz-sls-amg-gt-final-edition-2dr-coupe.html). Though I believe these numbers are a little on the high side since they assume 15k miles of driving per year.

Most of the cost is in depreciation and finacing (or opportunity cost). That's why it's better to buy a used supercar after it has stopped depreciating.
Title: Re: How does it feel to buy a Lamborghini (or any dream car) from your own salary?
Post by: luigi49 on September 19, 2015, 04:30:54 PM
Nissan 70z, baby Godzilla :-) about $70k new and super car performance, or for the cheaper version (will still impress the girls and be a fun ride) Toyota 86 $39k.

How is the Toyota 86? I have driven a Camry my entire adult life (all 9 years of it lol) and while I love my car and plan on driving it to the ground as it only has 143,000 miles on it, some day I would like to get a more sporting car. I would want one that isn't overly expensive, will impress the girls (why not), and would have a relatively low cost of ownership/maintenance.

Of course, by the time I plan to get a car, maybe the Tesla will be way more affordable?
I had to look that up...looks like it's the Scion FR-S / Subaru BRZ in the US market.  A friend had one and it wasn't a bad car (IIRC they're around $28k here) but I prefer my built 1991 MR2 Turbo. Much faster. :P  If he had a manual trans it'd have been more tolerable but the auto was slower than my SUV.

These are problem cars.
Title: Re: How does it feel to buy a Lamborghini (or any dream car) from your own salary?
Post by: JLee on September 19, 2015, 04:47:57 PM
Nissan 70z, baby Godzilla :-) about $70k new and super car performance, or for the cheaper version (will still impress the girls and be a fun ride) Toyota 86 $39k.

How is the Toyota 86? I have driven a Camry my entire adult life (all 9 years of it lol) and while I love my car and plan on driving it to the ground as it only has 143,000 miles on it, some day I would like to get a more sporting car. I would want one that isn't overly expensive, will impress the girls (why not), and would have a relatively low cost of ownership/maintenance.

Of course, by the time I plan to get a car, maybe the Tesla will be way more affordable?
I had to look that up...looks like it's the Scion FR-S / Subaru BRZ in the US market.  A friend had one and it wasn't a bad car (IIRC they're around $28k here) but I prefer my built 1991 MR2 Turbo. Much faster. :P  If he had a manual trans it'd have been more tolerable but the auto was slower than my SUV.

These are problem cars.
What are problem cars?
Title: Re: How does it feel to buy a Lamborghini (or any dream car) from your own salary?
Post by: Tjat on September 20, 2015, 05:45:03 AM
I suppose my dream car is when I wake up and confidently realize my current car needs replacement. I then shop for a safe, used car that has moderate comfort and good quality. I then buy it with "my salary" (as opposed to?) after conducting a boring price negotiation, and experience slightly more thrill than buying a gallon of milk.

To me, my dream is to realize it's a pure utilitarian purchase.
Title: Re: How does it feel to buy a Lamborghini (or any dream car) from your own salary?
Post by: attackgnome on September 20, 2015, 11:33:03 AM
You know what is waaaay cheaper? Get a  10-20k (or half that if you buy used) for a performance bike like a hyabusa, ninja, gxr, etc. You'll end up with a vehicle that, unless your first job is Moto GP, will have more performance than you know what to do with.
Title: Re: How does it feel to buy a Lamborghini (or any dream car) from your own salary?
Post by: sol on September 20, 2015, 11:51:15 AM
You'll end up with a vehicle that, unless your first job is Moto GP, will have more performance than you know what to do with.

You say that like it's a good thing.  I have scars that suggest otherwise.
Title: Re: How does it feel to buy a Lamborghini (or any dream car) from your own salary?
Post by: pbkmaine on September 20, 2015, 12:29:51 PM
It's the "more performance than you know what to do with" that gets me. I have driven 200km/hr on the Autobahn in Germany and I must admit, that was fun. Fun tinged with fear of death. But for the 75m/hr roads here in the southern U.S.? My Ford Escape hybrid works just fine.
Title: Re: How does it feel to buy a Lamborghini (or any dream car) from your own salary?
Post by: attackgnome on September 20, 2015, 12:58:24 PM
You'll end up with a vehicle that, unless your first job is Moto GP, will have more performance than you know what to do with.

You say that like it's a good thing.  I have scars that suggest otherwise.

It's just a fact, dollar for dollar you will get much more in acceleration, handling, and braking from 2 wheels as opposed to 4. Which puts a true performance vehicle within a relatively reasonable price range by comparison.

As far as risk tolerance and possibility of injury/death, that's an entirely thread. Although I would prefer that someone buying a performance vehicle for the "rush" that operating said vehicle provides is operating a vehicle that weighs 400 lbs as opposed to a 1.5 tons or more, especially if they intend to stupidly test their limits on public roadways.
Title: Re: How does it feel to buy a Lamborghini (or any dream car) from your own salary?
Post by: Syonyk on September 20, 2015, 02:37:22 PM
Oh, quick motorcycles are awesome.  :)  I stopped caring that much about performance cars after realizing that a slow motorcycle and a fast "affordable to a normal person" car are about the same, and it just gets better from there.

... my "dream car" is an '86 RX-7, rebuilt from the frame up.  I should have time and space for this in a few years.
Title: Re: How does it feel to buy a Lamborghini (or any dream car) from your own salary?
Post by: sol on September 20, 2015, 04:16:11 PM
It's just a fact, dollar for dollar you will get much more in acceleration, handling, and braking from 2 wheels as opposed to 4.

While I agree on the price issue, and the acceleration issue, I might argue the point on breaking or cornering.  Motorcycles have incredible power to weight ratios, but relatively tiny tires.
Title: Re: How does it feel to buy a Lamborghini (or any dream car) from your own salary?
Post by: zephyr911 on September 20, 2015, 07:45:29 PM
Thanks, I'm not very knowledgeable about cars. Thankfully I should have a decade before I need to consider a new car.
In that case, yes, the Tesla Model III (worst case, 2018 release) will be probably 10K or less by then. So will the 2017/18 Chevy Bolt, the 2017 Leaf, and several other options with 200+ miles of electric range, and fast charging will be ubiquitous.
Title: Re: How does it feel to buy a Lamborghini (or any dream car) from your own salary?
Post by: attackgnome on September 20, 2015, 09:48:08 PM
It's just a fact, dollar for dollar you will get much more in acceleration, handling, and braking from 2 wheels as opposed to 4.

While I agree on the price issue, and the acceleration issue, I might argue the point on breaking or cornering.  Motorcycles have incredible power to weight ratios, but relatively tiny tires.

Almost any bike will typically smoke any car that you can get for the same price. From my experience, if you know how to counter steer and threshold brake, you can easily out turn and out brake most cars on the road.

Unless....you're riding a Harley or some other 600 lb+ cruiser and haven't bothered to learn the appropriate techniques and are afraid of leaning because you might scrape your luggage or exhaust.......
Title: Re: How does it feel to buy a Lamborghini (or any dream car) from your own salary?
Post by: Sid Hoffman on September 21, 2015, 12:14:38 AM
Almost any bike will typically smoke any car that you can get for the same price. From my experience, if you know how to counter steer and threshold brake, you can easily out turn and out brake most cars on the road.

I like how you had to qualify it as "at the same price."  Well duh.  :P  Here's a video of a Nissan GT-R beating a Ducati 1098s around a circuit. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Man0X0bf8vk)  You have to spend more for cars, but in the real world I would argue it skews even more in favor of cars because in the real world, there's more bumps, gravel, potholes, squished animals, and so on.  Things that can simply take a bike right out and thus demand that a driver who intends to live a full and injury-free life go a bit slower.  Meanwhile a car with good stability control can drive through silly conditions at an alarming pace without losing control.

There's also the whole issue of side-impact crash results with motorcycles.  IIHS tests have shown me that modern cars can get t-boned by a red light runner and come out with little or no injuries.  A motorcyclist who gets t-boned by a red light runner is either dead, losing a limb, or at least looking at a serious trip to the hospital.  I'm here to enjoy life, so I don't ride motorcycles.  The risk of injury and death is simply too high.  Currently the stats show that motorcycles have 26 times the fatalities per mile as cars. (http://www.iihs.org/iihs/topics/t/motorcycles/fatalityfacts/motorcycles)  That's crazy.
Title: Re: How does it feel to buy a Lamborghini (or any dream car) from your own salary?
Post by: RWD on September 21, 2015, 06:58:28 AM
Almost any bike will typically smoke any car that you can get for the same price. From my experience, if you know how to counter steer and threshold brake, you can easily out turn and out brake most cars on the road.

I like how you had to qualify it as "at the same price."  Well duh.  :P  Here's a video of a Nissan GT-R beating a Ducati 1098s around a circuit. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Man0X0bf8vk)  You have to spend more for cars, but in the real world I would argue it skews even more in favor of cars because in the real world, there's more bumps, gravel, potholes, squished animals, and so on.  Things that can simply take a bike right out and thus demand that a driver who intends to live a full and injury-free life go a bit slower.  Meanwhile a car with good stability control can drive through silly conditions at an alarming pace without losing control.

There's also the whole issue of side-impact crash results with motorcycles.  IIHS tests have shown me that modern cars can get t-boned by a red light runner and come out with little or no injuries.  A motorcyclist who gets t-boned by a red light runner is either dead, losing a limb, or at least looking at a serious trip to the hospital.  I'm here to enjoy life, so I don't ride motorcycles.  The risk of injury and death is simply too high.  Currently the stats show that motorcycles have 26 times the fatalities per mile as cars. (http://www.iihs.org/iihs/topics/t/motorcycles/fatalityfacts/motorcycles)  That's crazy.

This reminds me of what Top Gear called the fastest car in the world (for street use): any rental car (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NYt9DO5WXr8).
Title: Re: How does it feel to buy a Lamborghini (or any dream car) from your own salary?
Post by: Syonyk on September 21, 2015, 09:27:37 AM
I'm here to enjoy life, so I don't ride motorcycles.

I agree with the first part, but the second part for me is, "So that's why I spend as much of my life on two wheels as possible." :)

Mostly electric bikes lately, though once we move away from urban and suburban hell, there should be a lot more time for full on motorcycle riding again. :D  Especially taking street bikes to entirely inappropriate places.