Author Topic: Camping/Glamping  (Read 20120 times)

Syonyk

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Re: Camping/Glamping
« Reply #50 on: July 08, 2015, 05:27:55 PM »
I've got to dig the picture up, but chuckled when we went camping last in our little pop-up camper. Near us was a couple who had a motorhome, as in, coach bus based camper. And it was called....."The American Dream."

Maybe they sold their home and are full time nomads in it?  :)

... I'm eyeing 5th wheel trailers that need some work, since we intend to do long cross country camping trips with our kid(s) in the future.  Spend a month touring museums/historical sites/etc at a time, since we're going to home school.

They're really not that expensive - you can get a used one in nice shape for $8k (and, yes, I already have the truck to tow it - it's 20 years old and works just fine).

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Re: Camping/Glamping
« Reply #51 on: July 08, 2015, 05:50:57 PM »
I absolutely love camping.  So far, we've stuck to car camping, though one day I plan to graduate to backpacking trips.

We have a 6-man tent that easily fits the four of us (and the dog.)  I don't even mind dragging along the camp stove, as it means hot tea and pancakes for breakfast.  I'm also happy to lose all my street cred (camping cred?) by blowing up air mattresses--  we're definitely towards the bottom of that Scoff Scale, but I'm cool with that.  Someday when I hike the John Muir Trail I'll be up towards the peak.

Spouse might someday (post-FIRE, when there's more time) build a teardrop camper.  It will likely be expensive, even building from scratch, so maybe he'll work an extra month to bankroll it at the end!  For now we're sticking with tents. 

Le Poisson

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Re: Camping/Glamping
« Reply #52 on: July 08, 2015, 06:17:25 PM »
Tent camping:
- private local beach campground: $55/night (has a pool)
- state beach park: $48/night
- desert park: $15/night (plus gas for the 6 hour drive)
- lake park: $37/night

- BLM/national forest dispersed site: $0/night

I did say that, in the same post:

Quote
Of course, camp site fees vary too, but in California - hookups are going to cost you.  Tent sites are cheaper.  National parks in general are cheaper, but you pay to get in.  If you are going on longer trips, use of free camping on BLM land is beneficial (have never done that).

We are planning our next trip in the glamper to Shenandoah SP. $15/night for the campsite (paved for the trailer!!) but I'm confused by the gate admission. It says $20 for a car or $10 individually. Does that mean per day, or one time? and is it car plus $10 per person, or is it just $20? How do they levy the fee on AT hikers?

Le Poisson

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Re: Camping/Glamping
« Reply #53 on: July 08, 2015, 07:37:45 PM »
Thanks Spartana - I made a mistake, its a National Park. Never camped at one of those in the USA before. The fee page is here: http://www.nps.gov/shen/planyourvisit/fees.htm

Vehicle looks like a one-time fee every 7 days.
The per-person fee I am assuming is for hikers/cyclists only. Dunno though.
Camping fee is obvious.

We've pre-paid the camping ($90 for a week) so we'll find out what other fees we have to pay at the gate.

Cole

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Re: Camping/Glamping
« Reply #54 on: July 08, 2015, 07:57:44 PM »
Prospector, that sounds like an interesting weekend. My parents are a bit like te retired couple you described, they recently moved from tent camping to a small pop-up trailer. They are 78 and the main issue was that they need the comfort of a good bed, which the pop-up provides.

I do not understand the need for a bigger car, as the pop-up tents I know can be towed with any reasonably sized car? My car is 1840 kg, so I am allowed to tow 1100 kg. Pop-up trailers are around 750 kg so that is no issue at all.

But perhaps in the US not only the cars are bigger but also the pop-up trailer tents :-)

In the U.S. cars are bigger and rated to tow less

regulator

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Re: Camping/Glamping
« Reply #55 on: July 08, 2015, 10:56:18 PM »
Well, I foolishly bought a small travel trailer new several years ago, but I think we get our money's worth.  Depreciation is around 1000/year.  Tags are $100.  We store it in the driveway and spend maybe 250/year on maintenance.  We use it 25 to 30 nights a year with the 4 of us plus 2 dogs.  Lots of great memories and something the kids will fondly remember the rest of their lives.

Shamantha

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Re: Camping/Glamping
« Reply #56 on: July 09, 2015, 02:22:59 AM »
Prospector, that sounds like an interesting weekend. My parents are a bit like te retired couple you described, they recently moved from tent camping to a small pop-up trailer. They are 78 and the main issue was that they need the comfort of a good bed, which the pop-up provides.

I do not understand the need for a bigger car, as the pop-up tents I know can be towed with any reasonably sized car? My car is 1840 kg, so I am allowed to tow 1100 kg. Pop-up trailers are around 750 kg so that is no issue at all.

But perhaps in the US not only the cars are bigger but also the pop-up trailer tents :-)

In the U.S. cars are bigger and rated to tow less
Yes, apparently, it is quite confusing :-)

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Re: Camping/Glamping
« Reply #57 on: July 09, 2015, 02:31:52 AM »
Regardless of the costs: is there anyone else here who hates hotels for holidays? I am quite a bare-bones camper, and whereas I can appreciate glamping in a yurt, shepherd's hut, pod or other extravagant luxury, I strongly dislike staying in hotels for holidays.


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Re: Camping/Glamping
« Reply #58 on: July 09, 2015, 10:04:05 AM »
In the U.S. cars are bigger and rated to tow less
Yes, apparently, it is quite confusing :-)
Marketing.
It's all part of conditioning us to be afraid to tow anything without a 3-ton diesel truck.

Chris22

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Re: Camping/Glamping
« Reply #59 on: July 09, 2015, 10:07:14 AM »
In the U.S. cars are bigger and rated to tow less
Yes, apparently, it is quite confusing :-)
Marketing.
It's all part of conditioning us to be afraid to tow anything without a 3-ton diesel truck.

No, more like litigation.  Companies like Honda that don't sell 3-ton diesel trucks would like to say you can tow just fine with a smaller vehicle, but their lawyers here won't let them.

Nate R

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Re: Camping/Glamping
« Reply #60 on: July 09, 2015, 10:20:48 AM »
But if litigation is the issue, minivan tow ratings wouldn't outpace small SUV ratings so much, I'd think.
Honda civic can tow 1000 lbs in US. But the HR-V and the Fit can't!? The CR-V is only good for 1500? Why's that? I'm guessing if the Corolla had no tow rating, the civic wouldn't either.
« Last Edit: July 09, 2015, 10:24:15 AM by Nate R »

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Re: Camping/Glamping
« Reply #61 on: July 09, 2015, 10:25:34 AM »
The Honda Ridgeline is rated to tow 5000 lbs. Which is less than I'd expected for the bulk of that truck.

So they do have a tow vehicle for light loads. :)

Nate R

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Re: Camping/Glamping
« Reply #62 on: July 09, 2015, 10:27:52 AM »
The Honda Ridgeline is rated to tow 5000 lbs. Which is less than I'd expected for the bulk of that truck.

So they do have a tow vehicle for light loads. :)

Ridgeline also is unibody, and not body on frame......I'd assume that lowers towing capacity.
« Last Edit: July 09, 2015, 10:31:13 AM by Nate R »

Syonyk

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Re: Camping/Glamping
« Reply #63 on: July 09, 2015, 10:29:24 AM »
True. I wasn't sure how it was constructed.

Le Poisson

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Re: Camping/Glamping
« Reply #64 on: July 09, 2015, 10:31:33 AM »
Most minivans are rated for 3500 lbs.

Sedans with the same engines are only 1000. Wonder what the difference between the frames/brakes/suspension/oil & transmission coolers/etc. are.

If you are towing over the rated capacities you risk voiding your insurance in a collision. To me that risk is huge.

Chris22

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Re: Camping/Glamping
« Reply #65 on: July 09, 2015, 10:35:25 AM »
But if litigation is the issue, minivan tow ratings wouldn't outpace small SUV ratings so much, I'd think.
Honda civic can tow 1000 lbs in US. But the HR-V and the Fit can't!? The CR-V is only good for 1500? Why's that? I'm guessing if the Corolla had no tow rating, the civic wouldn't either.

Combination of things, such as wheelbase length and weight of the vehicle itself, plus suspension tuning, etc.  There's a whole host of crap that goes into it. 

Nate R

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Re: Camping/Glamping
« Reply #66 on: July 09, 2015, 10:56:12 AM »
Sure, but when a Fit in Australia can tow 990 lbs, and a Civic in Australia can tow 1100 lbs, its not a car dimensional issue that means the Fit can NOT tow in the US. Although I haven't compared suspension part #s between the country's models, things like that lead me to believe that it's not just lawyers, but that there's marketing at work, because people in the US will buy a larger vehicle for towing.

Syonyk

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Re: Camping/Glamping
« Reply #67 on: July 09, 2015, 10:57:42 AM »
Most minivans are rated for 3500 lbs.

Sedans with the same engines are only 1000. Wonder what the difference between the frames/brakes/suspension/oil & transmission coolers/etc. are.

If you are towing over the rated capacities you risk voiding your insurance in a collision. To me that risk is huge.

In many cases, the "towing package" includes upgraded brakes, added or upgraded transmission coolers (automatic transmissions do NOT like getting hot), engine oil coolers, sometimes a larger engine, and often a load spreading hitch, so the load is spread across a large chunk of the unibody, not just attached to the rear bumper.  They may also have a different radiator with more heat shedding capability.

Most sedans simply don't have a transmission cooler - it's not needed for the loads involved.  Throw a heavy trailer on it, drag it up a mountain, and see what color your transmission fluid has turned (hint: brown and smoking is not good).  If you're towing something heavy, a transmission temperature gauge is pretty much mandatory (most trucks have one for this reason).  A good set of other gauges is helpful too, and a differential temp gauge might be nice on a heavy tow rig.

It also depends on where you're towing.  Towing across Iowa and Nebraska?  Not a big deal.  You can "overload" a car's towing capacity a lot and it won't care, because it's flat.  Towing through the Rockies?  Good luck.  A 2002 Subaru with a tow rating of 2k lbs definitely did not appreciate towing 1500 lbs through the mountains.  It did it, but was not at all happy with it.  Could it move 4k lbs through Iowa?  Probably.  Would I do that?  Nope.  If I do get in an accident, having radically exceeded the vehicle's tow rating is not going to look good, and could open me up to civil lawsuits as well.  Pass, thx.

My current tow beast is rated for about 14k lbs (see previous comment about touring the country with a 5th wheel trailer), but I intend to upgrade the front brakes before I tow past about 8k through mountains.

Syonyk

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Re: Camping/Glamping
« Reply #68 on: July 09, 2015, 10:59:02 AM »
Sure, but when a Fit in Australia can tow 990 lbs, and a Civic in Australia can tow 1100 lbs, its not a car dimensional issue that means the Fit can NOT tow in the US. Although I haven't compared suspension part #s between the country's models, things like that lead me to believe that it's not just lawyers, but that there's marketing at work, because people in the US will buy a larger vehicle for towing.

Australia's pretty damned flat compared to the US as well...

Chris22

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Re: Camping/Glamping
« Reply #69 on: July 09, 2015, 11:03:08 AM »
Sure, but when a Fit in Australia can tow 990 lbs, and a Civic in Australia can tow 1100 lbs, its not a car dimensional issue that means the Fit can NOT tow in the US. Although I haven't compared suspension part #s between the country's models, things like that lead me to believe that it's not just lawyers, but that there's marketing at work, because people in the US will buy a larger vehicle for towing.

What about that leads you to believe it's marketers instead of lawyers?  The US is quite a bit more litigous than other places.  Further, what leads you to believe Honda wants to push Americans into a larger vehicle and not do the same with Australians?

Bob W

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Re: Camping/Glamping
« Reply #70 on: July 09, 2015, 11:09:23 AM »
After my wife and I got married we took a trip to maui and rented a camper van instead of getting a hotel room, it was great! In the end I think it was much cheaper than staying in a hotel/resort. We were able to cook our own food, park right on the beach and sleep, and move around at will.

Here is the link for anyone interested:
http://alohacampers.com/

Interesting -- My quote for 8 days was $1,200.   A bit pricey I think.  But I wouldn't need to rent a car so that knocks $400 off.   So basically $100 per night for camping.   Nah,   I don't think so.    I'll just stop at walmart and buy me $250 in camping stuff and rent a car.   When I'm done after 30 days I'll give away the stuff.  Many places are free to camp and with tent camping we can hike to beautiful private locations. 

regulator

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Re: Camping/Glamping
« Reply #71 on: July 09, 2015, 11:28:05 AM »
It also depends on where you're towing.  Towing across Iowa and Nebraska?  Not a big deal.  You can "overload" a car's towing capacity a lot and it won't care, because it's flat.  Towing through the Rockies?  Good luck.  A 2002 Subaru with a tow rating of 2k lbs definitely did not appreciate towing 1500 lbs through the mountains.  It did it, but was not at all happy with it.  Could it move 4k lbs through Iowa?  Probably.  Would I do that?  Nope.  If I do get in an accident, having radically exceeded the vehicle's tow rating is not going to look good, and could open me up to civil lawsuits as well.  Pass, thx.


+1.  Our minivan did a reasonable job of towing the 3300# (GVWR) trailer in flat coastal areas of the Eastern US.  Once we started towing in the Rockies, it became VERY clear that the minivan was inadequate.  Put the same trailer on a half ton pickup and it is peaches and cream.

Nate R

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Re: Camping/Glamping
« Reply #72 on: July 09, 2015, 11:28:45 AM »
Sure, but when a Fit in Australia can tow 990 lbs, and a Civic in Australia can tow 1100 lbs, its not a car dimensional issue that means the Fit can NOT tow in the US. Although I haven't compared suspension part #s between the country's models, things like that lead me to believe that it's not just lawyers, but that there's marketing at work, because people in the US will buy a larger vehicle for towing.

What about that leads you to believe it's marketers instead of lawyers?  The US is quite a bit more litigous than other places.  Further, what leads you to believe Honda wants to push Americans into a larger vehicle and not do the same with Australians?

I said not JUST lawyers. I'm sure there's some litigation concern for sure. But I also think there's marketing motivation.
The fact that the Fit is not that different a vehicle from the Civic, and the Australian tow rating is in fact very similar to that of the Civic. Here in the US the Civic can tow 1000 lbs, but the fit can tow ZERO. To me, if the Civic can tow a similar amount here as it can in Australia w/o trailer brakes, but the Fit cannot, says to me that there's more than legal issues at play. And those 2 vehicles aren't the only example of that. I've spent a long time researching tow ratings when trying to figure out a vehicle to tow more than my old Civic.

Also, the Australian Honda site does not mention atow rating for the Odyssey at all, and other online research shows a rated capacity in Australia that's LESS than the Civic with or without trailer brakes. And even with trailer brakes, the Odyssey in Australia is rated for 2200 lbs, vs 3500 in the US.  So, to me, the fact that you can tow MORE in the Odyssey in the LESS flat US, and can't get the same package/rating in Australia? I'd again assume it's because Honda can't convince Australians to buy into needing the minivan to tow a 1500 lb camper. So that leads me to think that there's some thought that Australians won't buy larger vehicles for the same reason the US will.


mm1970

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Re: Camping/Glamping
« Reply #73 on: July 09, 2015, 11:59:36 AM »
Thanks Spartana - I made a mistake, its a National Park. Never camped at one of those in the USA before. The fee page is here: http://www.nps.gov/shen/planyourvisit/fees.htm

Vehicle looks like a one-time fee every 7 days.
The per-person fee I am assuming is for hikers/cyclists only. Dunno though.
Camping fee is obvious.

We've pre-paid the camping ($90 for a week) so we'll find out what other fees we have to pay at the gate.
National park fee is per car and is good for the week.  There's no additional "individual" fee.  That's for walk-ins.  (We go to Joshua Tree NP a lot, and have been to Grand Canyon couple of times, and Yosemite)

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Re: Camping/Glamping
« Reply #74 on: July 09, 2015, 01:33:30 PM »
Yep, that was the point I was trying to make.  For the typical American vacationer, an RV doesn't make sense.  Even a small teardrop wouldn't have make sense for us, and we could have found one for $6k.
Disagree.  One of our retirement goals is to buy a teardrop.  I'm thinking good-condition used, and I don't expect it'd be more than 10K, and I think it'll work out well financially:

- We expect to use it at least 20 years. 
- We will lend it to our adult daughters, and while that doesn't help US financially, it makes us happy to help them.
- Hotel rooms sometimes sell out.  Our own teardrop will always be available to us and -- in a pinch -- could be parked essentially anywhere, if we're just looking to sleep and don't need electricity. 
- Hotel prices fluctuate significantly from season to season (our daughter attends college in a ski town; our favorite hotel fluctuates from $60 to $200+ depending upon the date), whereas our teardrop will always cost something to tow, but it won't go up/down like that.
- We will choose a lightweight teardrop that can be towed behind the car we'd own anyway.
- Since it won't be a high-dollar item, we'll only insure it minimally. 
- We won't need to pay for storage. 
- We'll use it as a fourth bedroom for guests at our house. 
- If we're visiting family who doesn't have a room for us, it's more private than a pull-out in their living room.

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Re: Camping/Glamping
« Reply #75 on: July 09, 2015, 01:40:52 PM »
National park fee is per car and is good for the week.  There's no additional "individual" fee.  That's for walk-ins.  (We go to Joshua Tree NP a lot, and have been to Grand Canyon couple of times, and Yosemite)
We've been to LOTS of state and national parks, and the fees vary from site to site. 

Most parks charge by the car, so whether you're alone or have four kids, the charge is the same. 
Some combine fees; for example, when you pay your week's fee for Yellowstone, you're allowed to enter the Grand Tetons for that same fee.  Since they're adjacent to one another, this makes sense. 
Mt. Rushmore offers free admission, but they charge for parking.  To the best of my knowledge, they are the only park that does this. 
The St. Louis Arch -- actually called the Jefferson Expansion Memorial -- and some of the cave parks charge each individual for tours, which makes sense for what they offer. 
The America the Beautiful Pass (and the senior citizens' pass, which we will be getting the very day my husband is old enough to qualify) offers entrance to most -- but not quite all -- parks for a low price.
And some parks -- for example, Great Smokey National Park -- charge nothing. 

The moral:  Never assume.  Always verify before you head out on a trip. 

Le Poisson

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Re: Camping/Glamping
« Reply #76 on: July 09, 2015, 01:46:06 PM »
Sure, but when a Fit in Australia can tow 990 lbs, and a Civic in Australia can tow 1100 lbs, its not a car dimensional issue that means the Fit can NOT tow in the US. Although I haven't compared suspension part #s between the country's models, things like that lead me to believe that it's not just lawyers, but that there's marketing at work, because people in the US will buy a larger vehicle for towing.

What about that leads you to believe it's marketers instead of lawyers?  The US is quite a bit more litigous than other places.  Further, what leads you to believe Honda wants to push Americans into a larger vehicle and not do the same with Australians?

I said not JUST lawyers. I'm sure there's some litigation concern for sure. But I also think there's marketing motivation.
The fact that the Fit is not that different a vehicle from the Civic, and the Australian tow rating is in fact very similar to that of the Civic. Here in the US the Civic can tow 1000 lbs, but the fit can tow ZERO. To me, if the Civic can tow a similar amount here as it can in Australia w/o trailer brakes, but the Fit cannot, says to me that there's more than legal issues at play. And those 2 vehicles aren't the only example of that. I've spent a long time researching tow ratings when trying to figure out a vehicle to tow more than my old Civic.

Also, the Australian Honda site does not mention atow rating for the Odyssey at all, and other online research shows a rated capacity in Australia that's LESS than the Civic with or without trailer brakes. And even with trailer brakes, the Odyssey in Australia is rated for 2200 lbs, vs 3500 in the US.  So, to me, the fact that you can tow MORE in the Odyssey in the LESS flat US, and can't get the same package/rating in Australia? I'd again assume it's because Honda can't convince Australians to buy into needing the minivan to tow a 1500 lb camper. So that leads me to think that there's some thought that Australians won't buy larger vehicles for the same reason the US will.

Just to muddle things... Bolt on equipment (transmission/oil coolers, brakes, etc.) can vary between country, and even State of destination. For sure Siennas destined to Canada between 2004 - 2010 are equipped for towing and require only a bolt on hitch. In the USA, the bolt-on stuff (oil cooler/transmission cooler) was a dealer specified option in some years/states but not in others. I believe NY has them as standard, but NJ does not for instance. I am not sure whether this has to do withemissions laws or something else, but i have seen some very long discussions on Sienna forums regarding the towing equipment on the Gen II Siennas.

Possibly Honda has a similar situation with the Civic/Fit???

One of my great disappointments in going down to a wee hatchback is that my Sonic has a statement in the owner's manual that it is not to be used to tow anything, and that there is no elegant and cost effective way to put roof racks on it.

Another example of theis is the Pontiac Montanna SV6 which was offered for longer in Canada than in the US. If you get one with the 3.9L engine, it is equipped to tow - it even has the trailer wire in the back taped into the underbody. All you need is the 4-wire connector.

I think Dodge automatically includes towing package in the STX version of the Caravan, but don't quote me.
« Last Edit: July 09, 2015, 01:50:15 PM by Prospector »

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Re: Camping/Glamping
« Reply #77 on: July 09, 2015, 02:37:33 PM »
Mrs Pete: we originally were going to get a tear drop. About 7 years ago new ones were $10,000 so used ones are probably quite a bit cheaper. However, my hubby insisted I lay in one in the showroom & I am not claustrophobic but was in there. Felt like laying in a coffin. We only had 3 -5lb dogs back then so that would not have been an issue. I suggest you do lay in one to see if you can tolerate. We wanted to get one for all the reasons you mentioned. WE also use our RV like a 4th bedroom. WE have 1 guest room & that is our 2nd one.

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Re: Camping/Glamping
« Reply #78 on: July 09, 2015, 02:46:34 PM »
After my wife and I got married we took a trip to maui and rented a camper van instead of getting a hotel room, it was great! In the end I think it was much cheaper than staying in a hotel/resort. We were able to cook our own food, park right on the beach and sleep, and move around at will.

Here is the link for anyone interested:
http://alohacampers.com/

Interesting -- My quote for 8 days was $1,200.   A bit pricey I think.  But I wouldn't need to rent a car so that knocks $400 off.   So basically $100 per night for camping.   Nah,   I don't think so.    I'll just stop at walmart and buy me $250 in camping stuff and rent a car.   When I'm done after 30 days I'll give away the stuff.  Many places are free to camp and with tent camping we can hike to beautiful private locations.

Good luck with that strategy in Maui. Camping is actually quite discouraged there. A camper van allows you to park anywhere and sleep in ways that a tent can't on the island.

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Re: Camping/Glamping
« Reply #79 on: July 09, 2015, 02:50:28 PM »
Don't even get me started on fees. The worst is when you are on a bicycle. My wife and I biked from oregon to wyoming and stopped at many parks along the way. The parks often have special fees for bikes, but sometimes it ends up costing you more than if you are in a car, for multiple people. I remember one state park in montana that was $5 to enter with a car and $3 with a bike. Well, for my wife an I we paid $6 to enter, $3 for each bike, so more than if we were in a car. I was quite peeved when a 15-person passenger van rolled in and they paid, you guessed it, $5. If those 15 people were on bikes they would have paid $45!

Syonyk

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Re: Camping/Glamping
« Reply #80 on: July 09, 2015, 04:22:23 PM »
Our own teardrop will always be available to us and -- in a pinch -- could be parked essentially anywhere, if we're just looking to sleep and don't need electricity. 

A micro solar & battery setup wouldn't be hard to add - just enough 12v lithium battery for lighting and phone charging.  Charge it from the car while towing (tap into a running light circuit or something to feed a small charger), and have a few panels on the roof - you'd be set!

Le Poisson

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Re: Camping/Glamping
« Reply #81 on: July 09, 2015, 04:38:05 PM »
Our own teardrop will always be available to us and -- in a pinch -- could be parked essentially anywhere, if we're just looking to sleep and don't need electricity. 

A micro solar & battery setup wouldn't be hard to add - just enough 12v lithium battery for lighting and phone charging.  Charge it from the car while towing (tap into a running light circuit or something to feed a small charger), and have a few panels on the roof - you'd be set!

A pair of 6V golf cart batteries rigged to a 10w solar panel should be enough power for a few LEDs for bedtime. You aren't running anything serious inthese things, at most a pair of interior lights and one 'porch light'.

mm1970

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Re: Camping/Glamping
« Reply #82 on: July 09, 2015, 04:43:57 PM »
Yep, that was the point I was trying to make.  For the typical American vacationer, an RV doesn't make sense.  Even a small teardrop wouldn't have make sense for us, and we could have found one for $6k.
Disagree.  One of our retirement goals is to buy a teardrop.  I'm thinking good-condition used, and I don't expect it'd be more than 10K, and I think it'll work out well financially:

- We expect to use it at least 20 years. 
- We will lend it to our adult daughters, and while that doesn't help US financially, it makes us happy to help them.
- Hotel rooms sometimes sell out.  Our own teardrop will always be available to us and -- in a pinch -- could be parked essentially anywhere, if we're just looking to sleep and don't need electricity. 
- Hotel prices fluctuate significantly from season to season (our daughter attends college in a ski town; our favorite hotel fluctuates from $60 to $200+ depending upon the date), whereas our teardrop will always cost something to tow, but it won't go up/down like that.
- We will choose a lightweight teardrop that can be towed behind the car we'd own anyway.
- Since it won't be a high-dollar item, we'll only insure it minimally. 
- We won't need to pay for storage. 
- We'll use it as a fourth bedroom for guests at our house. 
- If we're visiting family who doesn't have a room for us, it's more private than a pull-out in their living room.
Yeah, I totally wanted a teardrop, and it didn't make sense for US.  We could have gotten one locally for about $6k, around 900 lbs, could by towed by our matrix BUT -

only sleeps 2-3 (could have slept me and the spouse and our small child)

Then we (I) got pregnant.

It wasn't big enough to sleep 4.

I started looking into ones that would sleep 4.  There weren't any that could be towed by a Matrix.  The extra space came with extra weight, which required more towing capacity. So, that would require a bigger car (for us) or a rental (which I was unable to find with a cursory look).

Plus I get crap for vacation.

Metta

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Re: Camping/Glamping
« Reply #83 on: July 09, 2015, 09:12:18 PM »
Regardless of the costs: is there anyone else here who hates hotels for holidays? I am quite a bare-bones camper, and whereas I can appreciate glamping in a yurt, shepherd's hut, pod or other extravagant luxury, I strongly dislike staying in hotels for holidays.
Me! I have a love hate relationship with hotels. I love the ease of them - just drive up with a small suitcase and you have everything you need - but hate that so many others have stayed there and have done "whatever" in the same bed I'm using, possible improper cleaning, and fear of bedbugs. Blech. Plus the crowds and noise.

Exactly!

FuturePrimitive

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Re: Camping/Glamping
« Reply #84 on: July 13, 2015, 10:04:27 AM »
I used to sell RVs and have tent camped over 100 days in the last 4 years.   I basically hate camping anymore due to the ever growing list of shit we have to bring now.    I told my wife I would only camp if she did all the work (like I used to).  Since then it has only been a handful of camping nights. 

No one could ever make even a pop up pencil out to save money.   It is not cheaper than a hotel room.   IMHO

A cheap used pop up might go for $4 K --- so right off the bat you are out 400 in depreciation plus 400 per year in opportunity costs of the money.   Taxes and insurance- add 150,  off season storage add 300,  additional gas or in your case truck rental add 200,   camping fees for 10 days per year add 300,  repairs add 150 per year.   So we are at $1,900 per year for a tent on wheels.   Most people will use this for 10 days max the first year and then maybe 6 days for a few years and then park it for 5 without use.   

So the $1,900 for 10 days comes out to around $190 per "camping" night.      Around here we can rent a lakefront or a very cool riverfront cabin for $125.  We can rent an RV ready parked at the river to go for $50.   We can rent a Yurt at the state park for $50.   We can rent a very cool little house on the Prairie cabin at the State Part for $50.    Or we can tent camp for free at the river or $7 at the lake or $15 at a very nice riverfront campground with an awesome shower house. 

So yeah,  even pop ups don't pencil out.   

If you enjoy camping,  like I once did,   my suggestion is a used nice big tent on craig's list and learn to pack food and drink that requires no refrigeration as coolers just ad a layer of headache to your camping experience.      Think red wine and whiskey for alcohol drinks.  Think bagels and jelly for breakfast.  Avoid the need for a stove at all costs. 

I really really do suggest keeping it as simple as possible.     It is the packing, unpacking,  setting up, keeping track of your shit, cleaning your shit,  tearing down,  packing,  unpacking,  cleaning that makes weekend camping suck.   

So yeah,   my whole suggestion chimes in with the back packer above --- take as little shit as is humanly possible.   A tuna sandwich with mustard and a bag of chips beats the hell out of a stove cooked gourmet meal hands down.    While your pop up buddies are taking care of all their shit you will be the one kicked back reading your book, hiking, swimming and actually enjoying the out of doors sipping your 3 Buck Chuck Merlot. 

Of course I could be wrong?  Congratulations on killing the sailboat by the way! (just don't trade one demon for another)
I disagree with your math a bit here. Well, ok not the math, numbers is numbers, but I disagree with your starting assumptions. Twenty two (10+6+6) total camping days strikes me as exceptionally low. People I know with campers, pop-ups to big-ass 5th wheels use them a lot more than that. Growing up we had a pop-up. Two actually, a very old (1968?) but still serviceable Steury and a Coleman Brandywine (I think, second smallest pop up they made at the time, 83-84). We used them at least 10-15 days a year for probably 10 years, including multiple trips to Florida, DC, Maine, etc. So sure, if you buy something and don't use it, of course it's going to be a waste of money. But if you do put it to use you can certainly get your moneys worth.

That said, now with my own family, we tent camp and will continue to do so for the foreseeable future. Our BIFL tent is 20+ years old now with no significant wear or damage, I could see getting another 20 out of it with proper care. The kids are in an inexpensive Coleman "6-man" which is ~7 years old and holding up great. I wouldn't mind a tear drop type camper some time in the future but that's more of a pipe dream, don't need it to enjoy camping. We're comfortable in quality tents and camp chairs, no 60" TVs required. Car camping in NY is pretty cheap too, sites without electric/water are ~15/night. In other words, camping can be a very moustachian vacation. (emphasis on can be, not always of course.)

AutoZealot

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Re: Camping/Glamping
« Reply #85 on: July 13, 2015, 11:27:41 AM »
Ridgeline also is unibody, and not body on frame......I'd assume that lowers towing capacity.

You could make a unibody vehicle tow an incredible amount of weight like a full frame vehicle, but it would kind of defeat the purpose once you get past a certain point.

Case in Point
a modern durango is unibody but tows nearly as much as the equivalent tahoe/yukon etc.  Most fullsize vans had good tow raitngs and were unibody.

As far as the Ridgeline is concerned, it basically get the same mileage as a modern pickup, so that has zero appeal in that regard specifically.