Author Topic: Highly Educated, Umemployed and Tumbling Down the Ladder  (Read 8240 times)

MandalayVA

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Highly Educated, Umemployed and Tumbling Down the Ladder
« on: October 12, 2014, 09:33:20 AM »
I want to give a facepunch to every person interviewed for this article.

http://www.nbcnews.com/feature/in-plain-sight/highly-educated-unemployed-tumbling-down-ladder-n219451

The guy with the masters in"entrepreneurship" is particularly punch-worthy. 

And then there's this line, bolding mine:

I was making six figures at one point, and now I’m making $13 an hour temping,” said Lisa Casino-Schuetz, a single mother with a master’s degree who has taken a string of low-paying jobs to provide for her two college-aged kids.

aschmidt2930

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Re: Highly Educated, Umemployed and Tumbling Down the Ladder
« Reply #1 on: October 12, 2014, 12:12:30 PM »
I had just finished reading before I logged on to MMM.  I wish a list of expenses were listed for these people, as I'm sure they're comical.  NBC News is one of the best sources of Anti-Mustachianism on the net, these sob story articles are a weekly thing over there.

If you're making 100k+ per year, there's no reason you should be in the type of financial distressed outlined in the article.  If you only save HALF of that salary you're on the fast track to financial freedom.


Albert

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Re: Highly Educated, Umemployed and Tumbling Down the Ladder
« Reply #2 on: October 12, 2014, 01:20:51 PM »
I'm sure some if not all of those people made a lot of stupid financial decisions nevertheless the article touches on a real issue  of long term unemployment. It's very difficult to get a qualified job once you've been unemployed for few years particularly if you are above 50.

You shouldn't be desperate for a job at age 60...
« Last Edit: October 12, 2014, 01:30:39 PM by Albert »

deborah

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Re: Highly Educated, Umemployed and Tumbling Down the Ladder
« Reply #3 on: October 12, 2014, 05:56:44 PM »
I'm sure some if not all of those people made a lot of stupid financial decisions nevertheless the article touches on a real issue  of long term unemployment. It's very difficult to get a qualified job once you've been unemployed for few years particularly if you are above 50.
+1

EricL

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Re: Highly Educated, Umemployed and Tumbling Down the Ladder
« Reply #4 on: October 13, 2014, 06:38:13 AM »
I feel bad for the people that are facing genuine age discrimination. But I think it does go to show that it's better to have intelligence than mere education.

Forcus

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Re: Highly Educated, Umemployed and Tumbling Down the Ladder
« Reply #5 on: October 13, 2014, 10:08:21 AM »
Without particulars I wouldn't criticize them too much. I remember the depths of the recession around here, it is a one horse town as far as high paying jobs, and many jobs were eliminated. We were way overleveraged and got EXTREMELY lucky even though the wife lost her job. Selling your house to move would be a non-starter to many people since housing prices were so depressed and NOTHING was moving. Being without a job for an extended period of time is like a scarlett letter to employers even if you are making a good faith effort at trying. All that being said, at least two of the stories they were supporting "college age children" AND their loans. Sorry, but if you are in dire straights, the kids can go to community college and pay their own way. And pay me rent too. (and the degree in entrepreneurship with 150k+ in student loans? Sorry, you are a moron. Might as well have a doctorate in Latin....)

Elderwood17

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Re: Highly Educated, Umemployed and Tumbling Down the Ladder
« Reply #6 on: October 13, 2014, 10:28:26 AM »
Cannot imagine being an adult and my mom tapping her retirement account for my rent.  Definitely a sad situation, and I find myself feeling at least a bit sorry for everyone involved.  Undoubtedly there were plenty of bad choices to go around in each of these situations, but I agree with the underlying tone of the article that it is tougher to find a job once you have been out for several years, are technically overqualified for many things, and are getting older.

MgoSam

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Re: Highly Educated, Umemployed and Tumbling Down the Ladder
« Reply #7 on: October 13, 2014, 12:03:05 PM »
I can sympathize with many people in this situation, this is what drives me to save as much as I can, as I fear being someone in this position. There are too many people I know that are 50+ and are doing jobs that can be done by most 20 year olds, but they don't have any other option and though they tell about making far more back in the 90s most blew through it. I was speaking to guy that's about 57 and has been a salesmen for 30 years, he mentioned how I missed the golden years when money was flying in and I mentioned, "Yes but I feel lucky coming in 2009 when the economy was shot because I save as much as I can because lean years might always come back," and that clicked with him, and while I was expecting the whole,' you're young, go out and spend the money,' he gained a lot of respect for me.

Though it continues to hurt many people, I feel lucky graduating during the economic crisis, but mostly because I had support and I was able to find work, seeing how bad things have been has given me persepctive and made me conservative with my money, I can see how many older people that grew up in a more stable financial environment are now hurting.

Forcus

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Re: Highly Educated, Umemployed and Tumbling Down the Ladder
« Reply #8 on: October 13, 2014, 12:13:20 PM »
Though it continues to hurt many people, I feel lucky graduating during the economic crisis, but mostly because I had support and I was able to find work, seeing how bad things have been has given me persepctive and made me conservative with my money, I can see how many older people that grew up in a more stable financial environment are now hurting.

That is kind of how I view it. Pre-recession thinking for me was, to some extent, seeing people around me with big, nice houses, nice cars, etc., and wanting a piece. The recession was an awakening when I was literally doing all I could to minimize expenses so if the worse did happen I could control my destiny. At some point I also analyzed what other people were doing and found that the guys with cars, boats, etc., were just in major, ridiculous debt. Funny thing is, the guys that managed to keep their jobs that are like that, are still like that....

MgoSam

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Re: Highly Educated, Umemployed and Tumbling Down the Ladder
« Reply #9 on: October 13, 2014, 02:30:07 PM »
Though it continues to hurt many people, I feel lucky graduating during the economic crisis, but mostly because I had support and I was able to find work, seeing how bad things have been has given me persepctive and made me conservative with my money, I can see how many older people that grew up in a more stable financial environment are now hurting.

That is kind of how I view it. Pre-recession thinking for me was, to some extent, seeing people around me with big, nice houses, nice cars, etc., and wanting a piece. The recession was an awakening when I was literally doing all I could to minimize expenses so if the worse did happen I could control my destiny. At some point I also analyzed what other people were doing and found that the guys with cars, boats, etc., were just in major, ridiculous debt. Funny thing is, the guys that managed to keep their jobs that are like that, are still like that....

I agree, when I was looking for jobs/careers while in school, I did picture myself owning a house (actually made a list of "must-haves" in it), this was done on the vision presented by "The Secret." Of course, this was when I viewed material wealth as a component of happiness. This was also when I didn't fully comprehend how expenses add up, the real world took care of much of this lack of experience.

rocksinmyhead

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Re: Highly Educated, Umemployed and Tumbling Down the Ladder
« Reply #10 on: October 13, 2014, 02:48:27 PM »
I can sympathize with many people in this situation, this is what drives me to save as much as I can, as I fear being someone in this position. There are too many people I know that are 50+ and are doing jobs that can be done by most 20 year olds, but they don't have any other option and though they tell about making far more back in the 90s most blew through it. I was speaking to guy that's about 57 and has been a salesmen for 30 years, he mentioned how I missed the golden years when money was flying in and I mentioned, "Yes but I feel lucky coming in 2009 when the economy was shot because I save as much as I can because lean years might always come back," and that clicked with him, and while I was expecting the whole,' you're young, go out and spend the money,' he gained a lot of respect for me.

Though it continues to hurt many people, I feel lucky graduating during the economic crisis, but mostly because I had support and I was able to find work, seeing how bad things have been has given me persepctive and made me conservative with my money, I can see how many older people that grew up in a more stable financial environment are now hurting.

me too. I feel like "millennials" get ripped on a lot in the media, but I wonder how many of us have this kind of "depression-era-lite" mindset. I graduated college in 2009 and I think that's a big part of what got me started on a mustachian path.

MgoSam

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Re: Highly Educated, Umemployed and Tumbling Down the Ladder
« Reply #11 on: October 13, 2014, 03:12:43 PM »
I can sympathize with many people in this situation, this is what drives me to save as much as I can, as I fear being someone in this position. There are too many people I know that are 50+ and are doing jobs that can be done by most 20 year olds, but they don't have any other option and though they tell about making far more back in the 90s most blew through it. I was speaking to guy that's about 57 and has been a salesmen for 30 years, he mentioned how I missed the golden years when money was flying in and I mentioned, "Yes but I feel lucky coming in 2009 when the economy was shot because I save as much as I can because lean years might always come back," and that clicked with him, and while I was expecting the whole,' you're young, go out and spend the money,' he gained a lot of respect for me.

Though it continues to hurt many people, I feel lucky graduating during the economic crisis, but mostly because I had support and I was able to find work, seeing how bad things have been has given me persepctive and made me conservative with my money, I can see how many older people that grew up in a more stable financial environment are now hurting.

me too. I feel like "millennials" get ripped on a lot in the media, but I wonder how many of us have this kind of "depression-era-lite" mindset. I graduated college in 2009 and I think that's a big part of what got me started on a mustachian path.

Hey! That was the same year I graduated, congrats on being here and glad to hear that many others had the same thought when the economy collapsed.

I honestly don't know if I would be here had the economy not shattered, and if I got hired early during my senior year. It is when lean times come that many of us find out what mattered, and it was wanting stability that led me to wanting to save up, because while I may not actually retire in 8 years, I want the ability to do so should I lose my job or something else occur.

daymare

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Re: Highly Educated, Umemployed and Tumbling Down the Ladder
« Reply #12 on: October 13, 2014, 04:15:26 PM »
+1 to the comments about millennials!  I graduated in 2011 and was fortunate to get a job before graduating, but I absolutely think the whole landscape majorly impacted my realization that employment can be transient and I really don't want to be tied down and not in control of my fate.

What makes me concerned, though, is the articles about how people our age are afraid of stocks because they see them as too risky and have grown up hearing plenty of negative news about the stock market (and not much good).  I really, really wish for everyone to be able to harness the power of compound interest & investing.

MgoSam

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Re: Highly Educated, Umemployed and Tumbling Down the Ladder
« Reply #13 on: October 13, 2014, 05:22:46 PM »


What makes me concerned, though, is the articles about how people our age are afraid of stocks because they see them as too risky and have grown up hearing plenty of negative news about the stock market (and not much good).  I really, really wish for everyone to be able to harness the power of compound interest & investing.

While rationally that  might not make sense to us, people that are closer to a traditional retirement should be less risk averse as we can be, they have less time to recover from a market downswing and have less years to earn money should they need to.

Davids

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Re: Highly Educated, Umemployed and Tumbling Down the Ladder
« Reply #14 on: October 13, 2014, 05:51:50 PM »
One of the examples in the article is a guy named Wayne Little who was laid off more than 2 years ago after working for IBM for more than 3 decades. Seriously he should have had way more than enough to just retire but apparently he has already gone through half his 401K just to pay basic expenses. I feel bad for the guy that he has not had a job for over 2 years but what terrible savings practices.

Roland of Gilead

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Re: Highly Educated, Umemployed and Tumbling Down the Ladder
« Reply #15 on: October 13, 2014, 08:11:27 PM »
I was under the impression that employers cannot discriminate based on age.  I guess it would help if you looked younger than you are.

rocksinmyhead

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Re: Highly Educated, Umemployed and Tumbling Down the Ladder
« Reply #16 on: October 14, 2014, 06:34:39 AM »
I was under the impression that employers cannot discriminate based on age.  I guess it would help if you looked younger than you are.

I think it is technically illegal, but it happens all the time and is probably hard to prove. Just another reason to retire early! :)

gimp

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Re: Highly Educated, Umemployed and Tumbling Down the Ladder
« Reply #17 on: October 14, 2014, 11:17:04 AM »
My dad is sadly in this position. My parents moved here with essentially nothing, so they missed out on a 2-3 decades of saving, and 2-3 decades of contact building and career advancement. My dad's a programmer without any interest in management, so he's at the age where it's very hard to find new work as a programmer. He's right at that age where people start thinking really hard about retirement, which adds another reason for him to not be hired. It really sucks. Their saving grace is that they saved when times were better.

On the plus side, I get paid enough after graduating college that I could pay their mortgage and not blink. So they're not losing their house.

Kaspian

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Re: Highly Educated, Umemployed and Tumbling Down the Ladder
« Reply #18 on: October 14, 2014, 11:54:48 AM »
Quote
“Right now, retirement’s out of the picture,” Maimone said. “I probably won’t retire. I probably will be working until the end the way things look now.”

Why do so many people think they can do this?!  It's unrealistic.  You'll eventually either get sick or your workplace will try to drive you out.  People think they'll be fine to go to work when arthritis really sets in?  What about if Alzheimer's happens?  Does that run in the family?  Things can and do happen.  I may live to be 80.  I really don't ever want to have to drag my ass into an office or department store, report to some smarmy 25-year old and ask him/her for special permission for a break so I can go change my Depends.  I'm not being ageist, but the body doesn't work properly forever.  What happens when it doesn't?  Unless you have a heart attack at your post, the majority of people can't work "until the end".

horsepoor

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Re: Highly Educated, Umemployed and Tumbling Down the Ladder
« Reply #19 on: October 14, 2014, 12:31:28 PM »
The theme of people who can't find work or afford to retire, yet support their 18 to 42-year old children, is the most disturbing.

And it sounds like the ex-IBM employee's wife is still working, yet they're in a sinking boat despite being only 4 years from SS eligibility and still supporting their adult children?  WTF?

RFAAOATB

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Re: Highly Educated, Umemployed and Tumbling Down the Ladder
« Reply #20 on: October 14, 2014, 12:47:29 PM »
The theme of people who can't find work or afford to retire, yet support their 18 to 42-year old children, is the most disturbing.

And it sounds like the ex-IBM employee's wife is still working, yet they're in a sinking boat despite being only 4 years from SS eligibility and still supporting their adult children?  WTF?

We can only hope that the children will be able to take care of aging parents when the decline inevitably happens.  The multiple houses is the confusing part.  At that point wouldn't a multi generational living arrangement make sense?

Albert

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Re: Highly Educated, Umemployed and Tumbling Down the Ladder
« Reply #21 on: October 14, 2014, 12:54:40 PM »
Quote
“Right now, retirement’s out of the picture,” Maimone said. “I probably won’t retire. I probably will be working until the end the way things look now.”

Why do so many people think they can do this?!  It's unrealistic.  You'll eventually either get sick or your workplace will try to drive you out.  People think they'll be fine to go to work when arthritis really sets in?  What about if Alzheimer's happens?  Does that run in the family?  Things can and do happen.  I may live to be 80.  I really don't ever want to have to drag my ass into an office or department store, report to some smarmy 25-year old and ask him/her for special permission for a break so I can go change my Depends.  I'm not being ageist, but the body doesn't work properly forever.  What happens when it doesn't?  Unless you have a heart attack at your post, the majority of people can't work "until the end".

That's just talk. Most people understand that it's not possible, but don't want to think about alternatives until they absolutely must. Don't know how it's in US companies, but in my workplace retirement at 65 is mandatory. Early retirement packages are occasionally offered, but if not 65 is it.